Does "Love" exist ? Why or why not?

[blake]

Hello All,

There are so many levels of what some call "love'. But does love actually exist? And if it does, what is it? When we say we "love" someone's work, don't we actually mean more that we highly admire, respect or enjoy their work? And what about people, how often do humans say they love someone: a friend, a co worker, a poster, a stranger, when perhaps another word would be more accurate? Do we use the word "love" so loosely as it has lost its true meaning? Can you actually love everybody? Or is more accurate to say that it is possible to act lovingly to everyone? And is that even possible? What is love? Does it really exist?

Sincerely,

Mr. Davis

[greybeard]

Dear Mr Davis
that is a very astute and valid opening question.


Pasted from another thread but relevant here I think


Men, some women too, tend to get fixated on “The Project” The project can take on many forms, it could be or a hobby or work or both.
The me is always reaching out for something in the future its goal orientated and looking for something to complete me to make me happy, to be some one. Its never happy in the present moment so rarely is the me content with what is.

There is the thought that when I find the right partner I will be fulfilled, she or he will make me happy. That’s an unreal expectation and besides if the source of your happiness is external to you, then in a very subtle way you are giving that outside source control over you through your emotions wants and needs. You meet the seemingly ideal partner you can tick all the boxes on your desire list. That called falling in love.

At the start you only have eyes for the other half, no time for projects, then after a while the projects start to beckon, the relationship starts to be routine, the aliveness, freshness, diminished, a pattern established.

When the realisation comes that love we feel for another is not actually dependent on the other but love that emerges within ourselves and is inherent within all human form then there is no sense of loss of identity if the relationship goes through a difficult patch.
There is no longer a feeling of being wronged to carrying the poor me story to anyone who will listen.

There can be a very strong love affair with the me story, “Look what happened to me” Our whole identity seems taken up with the story of what happened.
Looking in from the outside it can be seen that most relationships are dysfunctional but they survive.
Why?
Because there is pay value in that kind of a relationship.
The people involved in it would not see it or agree that they are getting something out of the constant bickering fighting making up cycle.
This is why.
There is the addiction to the adrenalin high from the argument, the opportunity to prove im right your wrong and if all else fails I might hit you. “Well he or she deserved it” is the justifying of it.

With every addiction there is a low after the high and of course its so unbearable to be in the low that the high is once more sought.
That might be through the seeking to make love after a fight.
The ego is very cunning and will go to great length to get its own way even to the point of seeming to apologizing, saying “im sorry dear it was my fault it wont happen again”

Of course after the high of the make up, the love making, then of course it all happens again, it could not be otherwise.
Life has got flat in the routine of it, no sense of being alive, of being me, no enemy to make me feel strong.
There is need of the adrenalin high and things have got kind off quiet, boring even. It’s a bit like the expression used by Nurses “Flat liners” that’s when the peaks and troughs on the heart monitor cease and all that’s left is a flat line, the patient is deceased.
So the cycle begins gain. The little me feels big and powerful when filled with adrenalin during the fight.
There is a strong egoic sense of identity in any drama.

Yes there are times when your spouse may not even like you far less love you. How do we best handle that situation?
By allowing it to be, that’s how.
There is enormous power for change in allowing.
Our partner has every right to express any emotion that she or he may have.
By accepting that right and allowing that emotion, freedom arises, for its ok not to be liked or loved for that matter.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
The moment that we accept that, not everyone or anyone can love us or like us all of the time then we are free of the pain that all kinds of relationships can cause.
We are no longer dependent on the external to prove to us that we are lovable.
When this is known peace of mind follows, you are laid back, you are easy to be with, and on the level of form you become very attractive, not that that matters.
You are also happy to be with you no reaching out for the next moment “to make me happy” Happiness comes from within.

We have a preconceived notion of what the role of our spouse is and of course what our role in the relationship is too. If our strongest role models ie our parents had a good relationship then chances are good that we will too.
Men see themselves as the bread winners and their woman as the bread maker.
There are boundaries “You do that, this is what I do.”

We all need our partner to be there for us to listen fully, to be present.
The biggest thing you can do for another is to be fully present, particularly when you are with your partner, leaving your own agenda aside.
Couples rarely really listen intently to each other. When the relationship ceases to meet your need to be fulfilled as a person then an obsession with work or hobby might start to take up so much time that there is little space is left for your partner.
“Well at least I know who I am when I’m at work” How often have we heard people say that.
So quarrels arise, both feel that they are neglected.
The male feels that he deserves better treatment and after all dosent he work hard to support the family.
The female is not too concerned about the money her man makes only that she works hard in the house and he is never there to give a helping hand.
“Wouldn’t it be nice if he cooked the evening meal once and a while?” she says to her friends who are in a similar situation.
The good thing is that when we are open it becomes possible to see our partner and their actions and attitudes in an entirely different context. NLP calls this reframing.
We could say we picture it differently.
See the other person’s point of view as if we are them.

It is also said that the other reflects back, mirrors part of us. So if our partner has aspects to their personality that we are none to fond of.
Could it be that we have similar character traits that we deny?
Our partner may push our buttons and we then say things and do things that we regret or justify later.
“That’s not like me” may be a passing thought. Whatever arises come up to be recognised accepted and let go of.
Without the buttons being pressed this blessing could not happened. So in a way our partner is to be thanked for bringing this into our awareness.

You will know that you have made real spiritual progress when a button is pressed and there is no knee jerk reaction from you.
You are immune but not indifferent. It’s not a “I couldn’t care less what you say or do” attitude.
It’s a state of non-judgmental love.
The situation is as it is.
As this begins to emerge in you the amazing thing is that your partner begins to change, if they are ready for change.
Through total non judgmental acceptance of your partner and others the energy of love can bring about a raising of spiritual vibration and with that occurrence, their perspective changes, they see things including you in a different light.
Let “You’re not the person I married” be a compliment rather than an observation of decline.

The Divine can be brought into all aspects of your relationship including love making.
The path of Tantric is valid. It’s not within the scope of this book to go into that, there are many spiritual books on the subject but you have to be selective in what you buy.

Everything in this word from the plant realm to the human realm came into being through interaction between male and female of the species, God created it that way.
Having a partner who is on the same spiritual or similar path to yours is a blessing. Having one who is not is also a blessing, they will be better at pushing your buttons perhaps.

The most important relationship of course is your personal relationship with Source/God and that is not an easy one at times either.
There comes a moment when awareness of Divine Love happens, it is not really describable but you will know it. Then the spiritual search starts in earnest, it’s as though you have tasted amirit the wine of the gods and nothing else will do. Human love is wonderful and of course has its very important place in the scheme of things but it is rarely unconditional or completely fulfilling. We will wander off into unconditional love for a moment.

A friend, a woman spoke of her unconditional love for her son, it came to mind and mind loves a story.
What if there had been a mix up at the maternity ward soon after birth and by mistake her child was given to another and vice versa. What then if years latter the accident was discovered and her “real” son appeared into her life, what then.
I think the lady in the story would have been big enough to accept and love both “sons”.
Children all belong to God we are just the the channel through which they materialse in to form.
So yes we have responsibility for them but we don’t own them.

So what is unconditional love.
If there is any sense of ownership, attachment, mine me in there agenda then there is a condition to that love no matter how small its there therefore it is not unconditional.

A well known story told to the best of my memory. Two Indian squaws claimed this particular infant as their offspring. The council said, well take an arm each and pull the child towards you and the stronger of the two will win. The women started to pull and the child began to howl as though he was being physically torn apart with these women pulling in opposite directions. In moments one could stand the child’s pain no more and gave up the struggle and just let go.
The council members decided she must be the real mother as only such love could put the child before her desire to have him. Is that unconditional love? I don’t know but it comes pretty close. When you love another enough to let them go that’s an indicator of uncondional love. Sel-ish is the opposite because self is involved.

In the bible it says that God is a jealous God, what does that mean?
It may be that what God said to have said meant “Get your priorities right” put no one ahead of your relationship with God, beside you yes. An equal partner yes.

So, one challenge that can arrive related to and in the relationship with God.
Commonly referred to as the “Dark night of the Soul”
On finding God as an experience not second-hand, not completely describable, there is quite often a period of bliss, that may last moments or days, however when it, this feeling, goes there is a vacuum created, (this may no happen for some time) a great emptiness, a sadness, sense of great loss, grief.
These are only words but when it happens it is unbearable, you just want to be home with God.
This has to be overcome too and can take time. It may recur from time to time but it is a sign of growth, painful though it is.
A stepping stone if you will.
At this time it is good if you have a partner or friend capable of unconditional love and understanding.
You may be temporarily incapable of accepting or giving human love at this time but this too shall pass.

Something also that needs to be addressed is that having experienced the love of God then human love can/may seem pale and lacking by comparison.
All I can say is that all love is of God and to let go of comparing.
Just be in the moment and whatever form love takes be happy for that.
Could be your pet showing even more affection than usual, they know.

Regards to all "lovers"

Chris

[Lord Sidious]

It is possible to love everyone, love animals, love plants, love art, etc.
But each ''love'' above is a different type.
Much like ford, chevy, mercedes are all cars, they are different types.
There are people who can love all mankind and those are the very spiritually advanced ones.
Love is the fuel of spiritual advancement and hate is the acid that eats it away.
Love could even be the unseen force holding the galaxy together, like the unseen force holding together the atom.

[bilko]

I love that Lord Sid.
I was heading in that direction too.
Love is the expression of the thing we want to be. Not rich, happy or liked but a yearning for our true self.
Love is absolute and the journey to it, which is why we recognize it along the way.

[ktlight]

We abuse and mis-use the word 'love'. We use it in a context where we mean fondness. If we make the effort to learn this, we can certainly connect with a magnificent energy that irons out the ripples in our brains in an extremely loving way that is felt deeply, which changes perceptions and thoughts and feelings. Once felt, you know it. It has nothing to do with belief.

[bilko]

Love is based in our perception of things.
If there was no man then there wold be no love or would there?
Love is perceived when we recognize ourselves and our true nature amidst the hustle and bustle.

[Unified Serenity]

That's the whole reason we are here in this kindergarten we call life on planet earth. It is our soul's mission to learn to love unconditionally. Love can be harsh too. If I see a butterfly struggling to get out of it's cocoon and help it, that may seem loving, but it's wings will never develop properly and it will be a cripple. If I only gave my children milk they would eventually suffer because they need more. If I carried my child all it's life it's muscles would atrophy despite my keeping them safe from falling or being separate enough from me to get hurt. That is not love, that may feel like love at the time, but as I am sure you all would agree it's not love. Love pushes us to be our best, to develop who we are, and to say "NO" at the right time in order to impart wisdom.

I have been blessed to see the true beauty of each and every soul. No matter it's depravity, each soul is precious beyond imagining and yet I could lovingly send them into the next dimension without guilt if that soul were to try to harm me or anyone around me. I pray I never have to do such a thing and I would suffer a sense of loss, but I would not feel guilty. I believe eventually we will be in a dimension where all souls have embraced the lessons of love, chosen the path of unconditional love, and within that dimension there is no darkness. I also believe it's a level of supreme healing and that is what we will be for other dimensions, healers who know the lessons of love.

[blake]

Hello Chris,

Thank you for pasting that response. It had lots of sound points that many can relate to. Relationships are usually quite challenging, and ever changing, as you and others well know. I belevie the first person one needs to love is themselves, before they truely can love another. But what does it mean to love yourself? I suppose that is another thread. Many people throughout my life ,have said that they "love me".Yet, I can count the number of people I love on one hand. When people have said they have loved me, I think most of them actually meant they were appreciated and grateful for the assistance I gave them during a time of need, or that I was kind and respectful to them becasue I am generally a compassionate person. I try to help humans brought to my attention who are in need of assistance. But I do not "love" these people that I help. I may have acted in a loving kind way, but I didn't love them. To me love is a special devotion that you choose to give certain people. ANd you can't give it to everyone because one cannot possibily be devoted to everyone. If my neighbor's child breaks a leg, and no one is around, I will do all I can to help the child until the parents or guardians can take up their responibility to their child. But if my child broke their leg, I would not just do my duty of helping them, I would be devoted to doing whatever it takes to make my child whole again, including sleepless night stayimng up with them even if I had an important 7:30 AM business meeting. I have the energy to do that for my children, but I don't have the time, energy or funds to do that for the neighbor's children no matter how fond I am of them. Love has limits unless your love is so superficial that it means little. I admire people's work. I can take a few minutes and say some supporting words to a person in need, I can donate money to people in need, I can listen to my neighbor going through a rough patch. I can invite frinds over and we can have a fun time and even share personal war stories and connect to each other. All these actions are loving and compassionate but I don't love any of those humans. I like some of them, some of them I may be very close to, and some some of them I hardly know. But when someone states that they "love me," I say how can that individual love me when they don't intimately know me, nor are they repsonsible for me, let alone devoted to me. People may say they love my work, when in reality they admire and respect my work. People may say they love me, becasue when they come to my home they have a wonderful time and laugh. I think people use the word love too loosely, and they fool themselves, and the relationship. For the truth is, if that love was put to the test, they quickly would discover that they do not love me, they just love the way I make them feel when they are around me. I believe one can fall in love, but then later on when the your feet touch the ground again, it becomes a choice to love. I am choosing to love this women. I am choosing to love this child. I am choosing to love my sibling. And when I choose to love them, it is not just an emotional statement or feeling. Love is a verb, it is the action I take everyday life in being devoted to my children and my spouse, or who ever else I choose to love. When people say " we love you" and they are just friends, perhaps if they used real words to express real feelings instead of this catch all word "love" that is so easily overused, then the truth, the respect, the honesty, might have a better affect on the relationship. WHen people say they love me when I know they couldn't possibily love me, it make me wonder how much these people love themselves, or if they even truely know what love is. Love is rare. The energy of love may hold the unverse together, but the personal love is a rare gift to give to selective individuals of your choosing. I don't think the world needs more love, but I think there needs to be more kindness and respect in the world. And since there is so little kindness and respect, people interpret that to be love. I tell my children to keep theiir standards high in choosing an egalitarian relationship, and choose love carefully, but be kind and loving as they can reasonably be in all situations. Perhaps if people practiced kindness more, then they could appreciate true love more often. Perhpas if people understood the value of deep committed love in their life instead of superficial love tossed about so easily by so many people, than perhaps more acts of random kindness would natutally occur. I don't love anyone of you. I do enjoy your thoughts, your views and your ponderings ,and I can send out the best thoughts that the best in life happens for you all. But love, no, love is a rare gift I devotely give to those I choose to have in my personal life, and can commit to

Sincerely,

Mr Davis

[blake]

It is possible to love everyone, love animals, love plants, love art, etc.
But each ''love'' above is a different type.
Much like ford, chevy, mercedes are all cars, they are different types.
There are people who can love all mankind and those are the very spiritually advanced ones.
Love is the fuel of spiritual advancement and hate is the acid that eats it away.
Love could even be the unseen force holding the galaxy together, like the unseen force holding together the atom.

Hello Lord Sidious,

You write that it is possible to love everyone but that love is not the same for everyone or everything...... That there are different types of love. Are some types of love more superficial than others? Does everyone understand what these different types or levels of love are? Can people possibly misunderstand what another human means when they say that they "love you", if its not the devoted, committed love?

You say that you can love art? If love is an energy, how can that energy be circulated if you send that energy to something that can't love you, or anyone else back? Doesn't love, if it is truely love, get short circuited in a situation like that?

People seem to so easily use the word love. Just look around the world, and how much bond a fide love do you actually know of?

When you say you love someone, what does that mean if love has different levels? I am devoted to the people I love. But, of course, how I express that love to my wife, to my children, to my parents etc is different, but , in my opinion, the root essense of that devoted, committed love is the same. To me love can not be superfical. How can one love everyone with any real meaning behind it? Its easy to say one loves everyone. But what does that love actually mean if there is no action to back up that love? It is so easy to say " I love you" . In my opinion, it is not so easy to live that love honesty for hundrfeds, thousands, millions or billions of people.

Sincerely,

Mr. Davis

[DawnOfANewEra]

As I believe that we carry love with us when we pass over to the other side, I might go so far as to say that love is the one thing that truly does exist for us on this Earthly plane. If we do everything we can to multiply that love through each passing, maybe we will finally have Peace on Earth...in this lifetime or the next.

[blake]

As I believe that we carry love with us when we pass over to the other side, I might go so far as to say that love is the one thing that truly does exist for us on this Earthly plane. If we do everything we can to multiply that love through each passing, maybe we will finally have Peace on Earth...in this lifetime or the next.

Hellp DawnOfANewEra,

But how do you define love? What love are you carrying over? Plus love is not always overtly magickal and wonderful. Love can be very hard work sometimes, maybe even a lot of times. What does love mean to you?

Sincerely,

Mr. Davis

[blake]

Love is based in our perception of things.
If there was no man then there wold be no love or would there?
Love is perceived when we recognize ourselves and our true nature amidst the hustle and bustle.

Hello bilko,

I think love is choosen action to be devoted to another. I don't see it as perception; I see it as a choice.
If humans didn't exist, I think the energy of love would still be on earth generated though the animal kingdom. I have seen animals be as mean as humans, but I have also seen them be very devoted to a choosen few.

Sincerely,

Mr. Davis

[58andfixed]

How we use a word can be a large influence on the functionally or dysfunctional of it.

I see 27 different definitions of it here:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/love

If one were to rely on 1 Corinthians 13: 4-7, it only works until one discovered that most Bibles after the original King James Version, 'Love' replaced the word "Charity.'

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+13%3A4-7&version=KJV

So it seems, if some of the key resources any average moral were to rely upon for a clear unambiguous guide for what "Love IS," so that it could be implemented in day-to-day life, it seems that these 'key sources' have been designed to obfuscate just what exactly was intended as a concept to be manifested by mortals.

Deciding if we *do* 'Love' would first requires a closer examination and perhaps thorough exploration of 'Love.'

- 58

[dourpil]

I'd say very briefly that to me, Love is the recognition that something/somebody else is neither different nor separated from us.

These are sentences I often read and that I agree with:
We are all One
A person cannot love another person before he/she loves him/herself. (My mother does not agree on that one at all :p )


Maybe Love is how unity -and more precisely the will to return to unity- expresses itself.

[Star1111]

For me, LOVE certainly does exist. I have been blessed with receiving and giving LOVE all my life. Deep, beautiful, unconditional LOVE. A very special person once said to me "true love is to give of thyself". So true!

[blake]

I'd say very briefly that to me, Love is the recognition that something/somebody else is neither different nor separated from us.

These are sentences I often read and that I agree with:
We are all One
A person cannot love another person before he/she loves him/herself. (My mother does not agree on that one at all :p )


Maybe Love is how unity -and more precisely the will to return to unity- expresses itself.

Hello dourpil,

Perhaps another word such as compassion, charity, or kindness would better discribe your definition of love, " the recognition that something/somebody else is neither different or separated from us"? I beleive myself to be compassionate becasue I understand and acknowledge that I could easily be, or have been, in the painful situation of some people. And, therefore, I choose to be understanding ,and helpful of others in difficult situations, rather than be cold hearted, and judgemental, or carry on airs that I could never be in such a situation or need help or understanding. Although, when you know someone well, one is in a better situation to choose an action of charity or give a swift good kick in the behind. To me when a person acts with compassion and charity they are taking rmeaningful action instead of what I describe as empty lip service by preaching more "love is needed in the world. I beleive that we are all the same, and do influence each other's life on various scales; but to me that brings out my compassion and charity attributes, not my love.

I am appreciative of what 58 and fixed wrote about the word love replacing the word charity. When a middle age man racing through the country side on a bike having a mishap in front of my property, I immediately stopped what I was doing, stopped the bleeding, put him in my car, with his blood everywhere, and raced him to the nearest hospital a half hour away. I couldn't wait for an ambulence. I gave my valueable time, energy and funds to a stranger becasue I too am human, and I understand about bleeding to death. I didn't love that man. I didn't know him, he meant nothing to me except he was another human being who at that moment in time could not help himself. We all are responsible for ourselves and our love ones but sometimes we do need a little help from the humans around us. If all humans watched out for all other humans in their area by giving charity and compassion to those brought to your attention, that is when I believe the earth will be a better place. So many people seem to preach about loving people, so few, that I observe, actually practice charity and compassion. As my Mom always told me, "pay more attention to a person's actions than what they preach, for words can not only be deceptive, they also are cheap" Meaning it takes more energy, time and thoughfulness to actually be compassionate and kind, than to sit and do nothing and say pretty things with no action behind the words.

I am wondering if humans started replacing the word charity and compassion with the word love if that would help clear up misunderstandings when using the word love. Or perhaps, the love that many seem to talk about so easily and superficailly, but seldom practice, will fall away and let the deeper devoted love take center stage.

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis

[dourpil]

I'd say very briefly that to me, Love is the recognition that something/somebody else is neither different nor separated from us.

These are sentences I often read and that I agree with:
We are all One
A person cannot love another person before he/she loves him/herself. (My mother does not agree on that one at all :p )


Maybe Love is how unity -and more precisely the will to return to unity- expresses itself.

Hello dourpil,

Perhaps another word such as compassion, charity, or kindness would better discribe your definition of love, " the recognition that something/somebody else is neither different or separated from us"? I beleive myself to be compassionate becasue I understand and acknowledge that I could easily be, or have been, in the painful situation of some people. And, therefore, I choose to be understanding ,and helpful of others in difficult situations, rather than be cold hearted, and judgemental, or carry on airs that I could never be in such a situation or need help or understanding. Although, when you know someone well, one is in a better situation to choose an action of charity or give a swift good kick in the behind. To me when a person acts with compassion and charity they are taking rmeaningful action instead of what I describe as empty lip service by preaching more "love is needed in the world. I beleive that we are all the same, and do influence each other's life on various scales; but to me that brings out my compassion and charity attributes, not my love.

I am appreciative of what 58 and fixed wrote about the word love replacing the word charity. When a middle age man racing through the country side on a bike having a mishap in front of my property, I immediately stopped what I was doing, stopped the bleeding, put him in my car, with his blood everywhere, and raced him to the nearest hospital a half hour away. I couldn't wait for an ambulence. I gave my valueable time, energy and funds to a stranger becasue I too am human, and I understand about bleeding to death. I didn't love that man. I didn't know him, he meant nothing to me except he was another human being who at that moment in time could not help himself. We all are responsible for ourselves and our love ones but sometimes we do need a little help from the humans around us. If all humans watched out for all other humans in their area by giving charity and compassion to those brought to your attention, that is when I believe the earth will be a better place. So many people seem to preach about loving people, so few, that I observe, actually practice charity and compassion. As my Mom always told me, "pay more attention to a person's actions than what they preach, for words can not only be deceptive, they also are cheap" Meaning it takes more energy, time and thoughfulness to actually be compassionate and kind, than to sit and do nothing and say pretty things with no action behind the words.

I am wondering if humans started replacing the word charity and compassion with the word love if that would help clear up misunderstandings when using the word love. Or perhaps, the love that many seem to talk about so easily and superficailly, but seldom practice, will fall away and let the deeper devoted love take center stage.

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis

Hello and thank you for replying to my post. I agree with you, the term "love" is often misinterprated and yes, maybe what I was talking about would be more accurately called "charity" or "compassion". We are talking about the same thing I think, although I should perhaps have generalized and said "unconditional love" instead of love. Were you assimilating the word "love" with for example, the way you love your husband, wife, children, parents? If yes, I agree with you, the feelings for someone that close is closer (sorry for the repetition) to the perception of Love as we think of it.
Unconditional love is more generic and would include the situations you shared with me.

I wish I could write texts as beautifully as you do when replying but I hope you get the idea!

[13th Warrior]

There are only two emotions that all emotions stem from:

Love & Fear

The center between these two is where you will find Zen...

[blake]

QUOTE]




Hello and thank you for replying to my post. I agree with you, the term "love" is often misinterprated and yes, maybe what I was talking about would be more accurately called "charity" or "compassion". We are talking about the same thing I think, although I should perhaps have generalized and said "unconditional love" instead of love. Were you assimilating the word "love" with for example, the way you love your husband, wife, children, parents? If yes, I agree with you, the feelings for someone that close is closer (sorry for the repetition) to the perception of Love as we think of it.
Unconditional love is more generic and would include the situations you shared with me.

!

Hello dourpill,

In law, it is important to define each word so everyone involved knows what must be argued. Often a common word can have a different meaning in a court of law, or in a legal document than it does on the street. Perhaps you were too young to remember when Bill Cliniton was defending himself over a scandal when he answered a simple question by saying somethng like..... "well that depends on how you define the word: is." Only a lawyer would answer in such a way becasue as I said before, a simple everyday word can have a very different legal definition; and sadly, some lawyers like to take advantage of that with an unsusupecting layman. But, it is not just the legal eagles who change the definition of words, somehow we all seem to sometimes put our own slant on the meaning of a common word or phrase. This habit of humans can often result with semantics getting in the way of a good discussion, or getting in the way of giving clarity to the debate to help with any type of sound conclusion or learning. I think we are on the same wavelength about "love". But we do appear to have different definitions of what love is, including what unconditional love is. Unconditional love, to me, is a love you give to someone that can never be taken away no matter what the individual does. Lucky for some teenagers that most parents do have unconditional love for their children, or the teenage years could, for some, disolved many parent - child relationships! Children are learrning, experiementing and growing, a parent cannot, in my opinion, have the same expectation of their children, at any age, that they have of of a peer. That is just one reason for unconditional love for one's children. However, from my viewpoint, all relationships, except relationships where unconditional love in given, may be ended becasue of what some therapists call deal breakers. I love my spouse, but I don't have the unconditional love for her that I do for our children becasue I have expectations of her and she of me. As loyal and protective I am of her, if she broke my trust in a devastating way such as having an affair or something equally as hurtful, that would be a "deal breaker". Some husbands and wives may choose to forgive such a transgression; but once trust is broken, it is very difficult to earn back, at least from me it is. I would use my last breath in defending my spouse, but my love for her would swiftly die if she betrayed our vows. I will always forgive my children's mistakes becasue they are learning about life. My spouse has the same wisdom and expereince I have, so I have expectations of her that I don't and could never have of my children. And so it is with my fellow human beings, I will automatically extend respect and kindness, no one needs to earn that; but people do need to earn my trust and my love. And just becasue they earn my trust and love doesn't mean they will always have it if my expectations are not met on a bottom line level. So for me, unconditional love is only extended to my children. But one definition is not better than they other. But knowing how another defines a word or a phrase will definitely help with understanding another's perpective. And understanding another's perspectives always helps a discusiion and a realtionship, in my humble opinion.

Sincerley,

Mr. Davis

[Freedom]

Respectively Mr. Davis,

I have to agree with 13th Warrior.

Two emotions Love and Fear. I choose Love.

I know it exists when all I have to do is look around me at this beautiful planet in all her glory. There was a lot of Love into the making of this world, I am sure, cause I feel it.

There is a book written by Masaru Emoto Messages from Water where he experiments with words and the water responds. Perhaps your familiar with it? The water responded with Love, to the word or thoughts of the word Love.

I have found that plants and animals respond to Love as well.

There are studies of meditation groups that send out love for healing or calming the negative and the response is significant to say that Love does infect.

I think that we don't use the word Love enough...I believe it would make a difference...in anyones life to hear that you were loved or that someone loved your shoes or your cooking, loved how you smiled...would that not be a pleasure to be around someone who loves.

I try to incorporate Love in my life. Either by saying or thinking. Its uplifting!

Love is what will turn this world around...Love will dispell the fear, the darkness, the hate.

I think that once your heart is open Love is a natural flow...for me it exits...I used to think it was external but I found it within.

Here's hoping that you find Love, live and breath Love. All you need is Love, the Beatles, sang of Love often in their songs...they certainly helped to change to world to see that.

Love to You and Love to All.

Namaste

Freedom

[blake]

Respectively Mr. Davis,

I have to agree with 13th Warrior.

Two emotions Love and Fear. I choose Love.

I know it exists when all I have to do is look around me at this beautiful planet in all her glory. There was a lot of Love into the making of this world, I am sure, cause I feel it.

There is a book written by Masaru Emoto Messages from Water where he experiments with words and the water responds. Perhaps your familiar with it? The water responded with Love, to the word or thoughts of the word Love.

I have found that plants and animals respond to Love as well.

There are studies of meditation groups that send out love for healing or calming the negative and the response is significant to say that Love does infect.

I think that we don't use the word Love enough...I believe it would make a difference...in anyones life to hear that you were loved or that someone loved your shoes or your cooking, loved how you smiled...would that not be a pleasure to be around someone who loves.

I try to incorporate Love in my life. Either by saying or thinking. Its uplifting!

Love is what will turn this world around...Love will dispell the fear, the darkness, the hate.

I think that once your heart is open Love is a natural flow...for me it exits...I used to think it was external but I found it within.

Here's hoping that you find Love, live and breath Love. All you need is Love, the Beatles, sang of Love often in their songs...they certainly helped to change to world to see that.

Love to You and Love to All.

Namaste

Freedom

Hello Freedom,

I admire your enthusiasm about your philosophy in life. And I send good thoughts that it will always work for you. But you are too bright of a women not to realize that I weigh things a bit differently than you; and it would be kind for you to send me good thoughts that how I lead my life will always work for me. It is a good thing that not all people have to live through the same experiences. I am not deeply familiar with Mr. Emoto's work, but I have seen the movie, "What The Beep," and quickly glanced through his book. I agree that thoughts do get locked into water easily and can change it structure; but thoughts also have a similar affect on the general environment, including humans. The concept of thoughtforms, and thoughts being things that can affect the environment is a very ancient, metaphysical concept. It is, as you are probably aware, the foundation of many magical practices, and healing techniques. Since I live on the coast, everyday I do a little water magic with thoughtforms, while on my walks :) Annie Besant’s book, “Thought forms” was written about a hundred or so years ago. Where did she get the idea from……. ancient principles from her studies in India? It good that Mr. Emoto’s wrote his book and demonstrated to the general public an ancient, metaphysical concept that can be put into the daily practice of the average human if they can discipline themselves to do so until it becomes a habit. When I was a small child, we were required to get two identical plants, and place them in an identical environment, a few feet apart. We had to make sure that each plant would get the same amount of light, heat, and water. However, one plant was given the added benefit of daily, loving, and kind thoughts, while the other we mentally ignored. Over a three month period, we recorded the plants development, and as you know, or at least would suspect, the plant we sent daily, loving, and kind thoughts to grew faster, and healthier than the plant we mentally ignored. Perhaps you did a similar experiment as a child, or at sometime in your life? As a gardener, I agree that plants do react to the thoughts and actions of humans around them. Growing up, I was taught to mentally ask permission of the nature spirits before harvesting a flower, an herb, or a tree. I am wondering how many people reading this response ask permission of the flower to be picked, or explain to a tree why it must be taken down, while giving the tree spirit time to relocate? If you practice instilling good thoughts into water, you will understand why this practice is so important to nature. This process was ingrained in me. Talking to nature spirits is routine for me, and I take advantage of the benefits! I would tend to agree with 13th warrior that all emotions stem from the emotions of love and fear. However, there are a lot more colors, and shades of gray between those two extremes that often need to be tended to. As a writer, I am discriminate in choosing precise words for invoking certain feelings, or images………… generalizations just don’t work in writing a novel. As a therapist, just working with the two emotions of love and fear would tie my hands at getting to the route cause of a client’s issue. But getting back to the question of what is love and does it exist, I think we have a clash of semantics going on in this thread. What you call loving someone's cooking, I might describe as enjoying someone's cooking. I admire people's work, and I enjoy people’s work. Yet, you might say that you love their work. Some people's work I find very uplifting, and they make me laugh, or feel hopeful. Some people’s work disturbs me, or I find hurtful. And there are some therapist’s who scare the heck out me in what they are doing to their clients! And then there is Congress…………….

Love is indeed important. And I am blessed with having deep, committed love in my life. When it comes to the rare gifts of life such as love, I look for quality not quantity. I am of the mind that one is wise to have many acquaintances in life, but only a handful of true friends. I agree with you that it is important to our society at large to be generous with honest compliments. It is good for everyone involved to tell the people you encountered during your daily routine something nice; weather it be how nice they look in their new coat, or how much you appreciated the write up they did in the newsletter for the committee you are both on. But the compliments must be honest, not just made up to make someone feel good. I agree that it is also important to tell your loved ones that they are loved often. My children always end our conversation with “I love you Dad”. And I never tire of hearing it. Yet, when people I know socially start saying they love me just because they enjoy being around me, it doesn’t feel good at all. And my defenses go up because obviously that individual doesn’t know what love is, and in my estimation is probably very needy, or incredibly superficial and capable of severe back stabbing over the most insignificant perceived slight. They also often seem to have a tendency to gets easily jealous over anything, or needs to always be in control of a situation.

I have nothing against friends saying that they love each other. The sad part is, in my expereince,is that it is seldom true. Perhaps there are people who believe there are different levels of loving a person. So if you believe that, when you tell a person that you love them, do you inform them of the level of that love? In my opinion, it would it be kinder to be realistic and say you care about what happens to that person, or how much you enjoy their company, or admire them. When someone tells another they love them, does that person have to ask what category of love they fit into, or is it assumed they understand the category of love that is being applied to them? I never have that issue, because I never tell people I love them who I don’t bona fide love. And yet, so many people in deep emotional or confusing pain have come to me saying, “ but they said they loved me”. And then the education, and the self esteem building begins. Some friends are fickle, and some friends are true, it is just how life is. Some families are happy and generate love. Some families or family members need to be divorced from one another in order to have a chance at happiness and emotional security. It is just how life is. Some people are generous; some people are greedy and take advantage of generous people, with people of every blend in-between. It is everyone’s responsibility to protect themselves and make good choices. There is a reason why we tell our children not to talk to strangers. or spread "love" to them. If a stranger needs help, the kindness needs to come from an adult, where caution and discretion can be assessed as the kind act is implemented as to not to endanger the child. And how many young people run into a marriage because of so call love, when they have never seen what real love looked like in a marriage or a friendship?

Freedom, you seem to be a person who believes in happiness and goodness and spreading that happiness and goodness around. And that is great and maybe that is your definition of love, but as you well know by now, it’s not my definition of love. I think the Beatles had it wrong when they sang, “All you need is love.” I beleive that love is a firm foundation in a relationship, and everyone needs love in their life; but everyone also needs emotional security, good health, or health support, a healthy and encouraging social life, mental stimulation, clothes, physical activity, choices, a way of expressing themselves, feelings of accomplishment or achievement change of scenery, and the list goes on. What good is the love from a drunk who can’t keep food on the table? With bona fide love, in my opinion, comes responsibility. Free love can often mean someone is being taken advantage of on some level. Plus, love is not always easy. Sometimes the best love you can give a troubled teen is tough love; and hope they don’t get themselves killed in the process of you letting go so they can have a chance to figure out whatever their issue is. Sometimes if you really love someone, you have to let them go. And because love is such a powerful and complex emotion, most humans don’t have the capability of truly loving many people. Yet a human can only thrive when there in love in their life. Because of human nature being what it is, love is not so easy, and yet each individual needs to figure out how to incorporate bona fide love into their life. But how many people settle for superficial or cheap love? The battered housewife comes to mind. Do those women need something more than just love from their out of control husbands? Everyone needs loyal, kind, stimulating love to nourish themselves with, and that love doesn’t have to be the romantic love that movies are made of. Sometimes it is the love of a pet, a child or a true friend or sibling combined with a kind and active social life keeps a human being balanced in love enegry. The challenge of humans is to thrive in a predatory world by living a productive and balanced life style. One must be aware of both natural enemies and friends. One must understand and see what bona fide love looks like so they will know what it is when they stumble upon it in the most unexpected places.

Because humans can be so deceived by love, since it so easy to speak of love rather than be loving. Since so many people give lip service about love or only offer superficial love, I am more interested in there being more kindness in the world. Because kindness is an act that mostly can not be deceived, An act of kindness is usually as self evident as unalienable rights. And when you notice a long train of loving and kind actions repeatedly being done by an individual or group of iindiviuals those are the people I choose to hang around. Perhaps I would chance the Beatles song to , “ all you need is responsibility, kindness and brains!”

Thank you Freedom, for your good wishes that I find love. Please know that I was lucky in love and found it many years ago. I do beleive that love is an energy that exists. It just appears, to me, that it is not all that abundant in its bona fide form. And so many people settle for false love. I say instead of talking about love, go out among people do something kind everyday, and then love yourself by also doing something kind for yourself.

Sincerely,

Mr. Davis

[Freedom]

Mr. Davis

Respectively,

My Dear Mr. Davis,

I knew you would say that being a man of words. I knew that I would come off as the airy-fairy type with which one would attach to the sort of hapless willy-nilly carefree spirit with not a concern in the world nor difference to it. That really wasn't what I was trying to convey.

I agree with ever single synopsis you profess for I have lived a might in each and every one of them and even tarried a bit longer than I liked through some. Yet each of those experiences have led me to still believe in Love. Perhaps not the bona fide love you write of as I interpret to be a love between man and woman. I see that as commitment, compromise, patience, respect, kindness, endurance, tenaciousness, loyalty and list goes on....few find that. I believe these qualities should be in all relationships. Just my opinion. In fact as many hundreds or thousands of people daily, that can't wait to hook-up and start living the bona fide life of love...nearly just as many are reconsidering and throwing in the towel at the five to ten year mark. I once was enamored to find a love like that is depicted from romance novels or the thirties or forties movies because they stood out as committed men through and through. Such is the mind that is conditioned into this way of thinking. Have we not been programmed from the very onset of our first breath, well actually, pre-nattily we are being conditioned with the thoughts of mother and those in close proximity to her.

Yes, shades of grey, a barometer, tipping the scales of balance of too much or too little, exist only because we have been brought to believe we need these categories to put our round pegs in, and aren't we a good little fellow for following into that quagmire. To me that is judgment and compliance.

Would not the haggard battered housewife have faired better, had her husbands family spoke more about love, perhaps even her own family so that self-esteem had been instilled to her very core to not stand for abuse, instead of (and you must know this if your a therapist) perpetuating yet another dysfunctional generation to be carried out and pasted down throughout the ages? The buck stops here. We want to or rather, I would like that we stand up to these old ways and bring in the new paradigm.

As you say, "instead of talking about love, go out among people do something kind everyday, and by also doing something kind for yourself." I think of that as the Golden Rule which I believe is taught in kindergarten? I could be wrong about that. Still by the first grade we start seeing the division of kids who thinks one is better than the other, the bullying starts then and excels up to the remaining years of their pre programmed conditioned controlled responses to life so that they might one day fit into one of those boxes. Little boxes all made out of ticky-tacky and they all the look the same? Where did the love go? Was it even around or heard of? Certainly it was not taught nor was it available nor prevalent in their lives to help them see the errors of their ways and make a difference for all.

Where did the love go? Who is responsible for the mess we are in when we are led to believe false profits, lovers and charlatans. Were they jaded, loveless in their up-bringing, cajolers and connivers? Or just products of lovelessness ( I know that is not a word, forgive me in my ignorant expression)

I want to be like the pebbles you toss into a pool of water that have a rippling effect reaching shores far and wide with my intent. Love should be simple and easy. Not complicated and conditioned. You made reference to my saying that one can love ones cooking. Sure it could be said that you enjoy ones cooking but think about it, does not the very idea that one would care enough about you to share their bounty and prepare a meal that came with love from their heart to nurture your very being? How could you just enjoy that and not absolutely love it? Maybe you don't do the cooking eh? Just kidding.

I am glad Mr. Davis that you care enough to think of such things in so much depth but IMHO we can sometimes get bogged down with words and a lot of what you say though I agree with you one hundred percent is the very opposite of love and that to me would be fear.

I just want to be the airy-fairy head in the clouds, sprinkling my fairy dust over the lands to say that love matters, love is alive and love is what will prevail. For I have seen much hatred and fear and what the outcome of that is, a dark and dying world that we are trying to break away from.

I do wish for you much love and happiness all the days of your life....and beyond.

Keeping it simple and always full of love for my intent is to permeate all things. Here is for the betterment and greatest good for all man kind, we are humans becoming, help us to become.

With love and light.

Respectively Mr. Davis,

Namaste

Freedom

[Arrowwind]

hmmm.... the age old arguement about love. Love is a loaded term and it has been used for ages to control and manipulate people.

I generally avoid it by dedicating myself to devleoping and expressing compassion.

Not nearly so loaded a term yet encompasses all the shades of gray as discussed here... from the simple blessing to a neighbor or stranger to the full blown giving of ones totality in a relationship to another or to god or to all that living requires.

I prefer to get simple in such analysis. Love to me is simply recognizing the god consciousness potential in each other and going with that, a perpetual blessing upon mother earth and all her creatures no matter what level of evolution they may reside.

It is a state of being that I have worked on obtaining for some time... and if a stranger says they love me I just simply realize that it is their word for their recognition of my god self too, or at least their struggle to find a god self in anything, and I don't dwell on it or analize it, no matter what level of their consciousness it or lack of consciousness it may spring from... but this comes from someone who has been well nourished in her life and needs not the perpetual slathering on of words and images to accept self and find worth. With self worth comes the ability to exctend compassion in places that others dare not tread.

[Lord Sidious]

And now, for you guys who are short of words with your epic posts, here is Iron Maiden.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LArTxNnM77w

[WhiteFeather]

Love comes in many various fragrances for each thing on this planet. And I always come out smelling like roses. Hope this Helps.

~Be Love~ Whitefeather

[blake]

Hello Freedom,

That was a very honest reply and I have great respect for that. And isn't it wonderful that we all have a choice of being "airy fairy" as you say, or over analytical, or anything inbetween. We all are captains of our lives.

Thank you for your good thoughts. I wish you the same.

Sincerely,

Mr. Davis

[blake]

Hello Arrowind,

Good to hear from you. I do agree that love is a loaded word, and has been used, and continues to be used to control and manipulate people. Perhaps that is why I thought it might make an interesting thread. I do look for compassion and kindness in people and strive daily to incorporate those qualities myself, but alas, I am human and always don't quite make the mark. Some days are better than others. You have quite the definition of love, Arrowind, and it seems to work nicely for you. We are all different in how we express ourselves. One way is no better than the other, in my opinion as long as its honest and respectful.

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis

[blake]

Hello All,

The old saying goes, “the proof is in the pudding”. So what does the pudding of life say about love from your perspective? Arrowind wrote that love is a loaded word, and I agreed….. probably for entirely different reasons. :) But why should "love" be a loaded word? Freedom wrote that love should be easy, and I agree it should be, but in observing humans it doesn’t appear to be easy for many people. Some people seem to think that love can’t last more than seven or ten years with one person. If that is true, what does that say about love and the nature of humans? Of course, I don’t think that time limit refers to the love one gives to children and parents, just lovers, friends and marriage partners I think? So why is love seemingly so hard to discuss? Would discussing how the monetary system got out of hand be any easier?


Sincerely,

Mr. Davis