Is Ron Paul the Rodney Dangerfield of The GOP?

[jagman]

While watching the GOP debate the other nite,I found myself yelling at the TV
When Congressman Ron Paul said he would be alright with Iran getting a nuclear
weapon! I like a lot of what Rep Paul stands for ( abolishing the fed,getting out of the
wars, even legalization of pot ) But when he talks about Iran getting a nuclear weapon
he is clearly showing he is naive on this issue! Amhadinejad and the Ayatollah have clearly

stated there intentions if or when they get the bomb! And for that rep Paul just isnt
going to get any respect!

[RMorgan]

Well, I think any country shouldn´t have any kind of nuclear weapons.

However, if the USA can have nuclear weapons, why other countries can´t have one?

Should Iran just sit down and wait until the USA decides to attack it?

I really think the US would think twice before attacking a country that have nuclear weapons, and that´s why the US gets so angry about it.

The USA wants to attack Iran, but if Iran gets to build nukes...Then it´s another story.

[Calz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzDxilKnU8Q&feature=player_embedded

[spelsylver]

I think the point dr. paul was trying to make was that every one and their mama has nucs why can't they? He isn't saying, yes please Iran, have nuclear weapons, i welcome it. He just wants us to mind our own damn business for once, take care of the home front. That's the general message i get from Ron Paul. Bring the troops home. He never voted for the iraq war. Give power to the people. End the fed, you kow stuff that really matters here at home...

[jagman]

Well, I think any country shouldn´t have any kind of nuclear weapons.

However, if the USA can have nuclear weapons, why other countries can´t have one? I agree with the first part of your statement! Even Robert J Oppenheimer knew what he had done was wrong, but the geni is out of the bottle!

To compare the US with Iran in this situation is a little far fetched dont you think?
Amahdinejad has stated publicly numerous times he wants to wipe the
little satan (Israel ) and the big satan ( the United States ) off the map!

[Jake]

I have heard that said about, Mitt Romney, Gary Johnson, Jim Weidner, etc. Give the man some respect for pete's sake...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWEsyBzFo8g

[RMorgan]

Well, I think any country shouldn´t have any kind of nuclear weapons.

However, if the USA can have nuclear weapons, why other countries can´t have one? I agree with the first part of your statement! Even Robert J Oppenheimer knew what he had done was wrong, but the geni is out of the bottle!

To compare the US with Iran in this situation is a little far fetched dont you think?
Amahdinejad has stated publicly numerous times he wants to wipe the
little satan (Israel ) and the big satan ( the United States ) off the map!

Well, I think the US is really planning to wipe out Iran as well...

So, if both countries are planning to wipe out each other, they´d better come to an agreement, or both will suffer the consequences.

[Carmody]

Well, I think any country shouldn´t have any kind of nuclear weapons.

However, if the USA can have nuclear weapons, why other countries can´t have one? I agree with the first part of your statement! Even Robert J Oppenheimer knew what he had done was wrong, but the geni is out of the bottle!

To compare the US with Iran in this situation is a little far fetched dont you think?
Amahdinejad has stated publicly numerous times he wants to wipe the
little satan (Israel ) and the big satan ( the United States ) off the map!

He never said that.


What he said was that: There will never be peace in the middle east until there is regime change in Israel.

The controlled press and reporting system....is the one who told you lies about what those words, translated, are.

Then, if you research that, you find out this sort of thing is horrifically rampant. Then you are stunned to silence at the sheer size, the scope, the depth and audacity of the lies, the sheer bald faced insanity --- it is so big, you start hyperventilating from finally seeing the beginnings of the shape of it.

Which is why it is so hard for people to understand. Their very integrity of character disallows them from even understanding the insanity of it, thus their minds skip off of it. They simply can't deal with knowing the world is run by sociopaths who have not the slightest emotion, no empathy with the idea and reality of killing millions of people, in sheer brutality, for the fulfillment of their own fears and desires.

And they will lie right to your face that the blue sky is orange and is actually the ground, if it does something for their desires. They won't even change the expression on their face when they do it.

And that, for example, is about 90%+ of the US congress, the presidential offices, The Federal reserve, the media and the banking system. Those people. they got together, found it was good, and gave up the sword and the raping ----for a suit and an office. They just keep their murder and their rape hidden now, instead of wearing it on their sleeves. They moved into the places where their hunger could be served best and did it by sneaking up on you. Like they always did, like they always do.

And that is the world you live in.

[jagman]

Well, I think any country shouldn´t have any kind of nuclear weapons.

However, if the USA can have nuclear weapons, why other countries can´t have one? I agree with the first part of your statement! Even Robert J Oppenheimer knew what he had done was wrong, but the geni is out of the bottle!

To compare the US with Iran in this situation is a little far fetched dont you think?
Amahdinejad has stated publicly numerous times he wants to wipe the
little satan (Israel ) and the big satan ( the United States ) off the map!

He never said that.


What he said was that: There will never be peace in the middle east until there is regime change in Israel.

The controlled press and reporting system....is the one who told you lies about what those words, translated, are.

Im not going to say your lying but just google it! And while your at it google the
the 12th Imam Prophecy! Have a nice day.

[Carmody]

Well, I think any country shouldn´t have any kind of nuclear weapons.

However, if the USA can have nuclear weapons, why other countries can´t have one? I agree with the first part of your statement! Even Robert J Oppenheimer knew what he had done was wrong, but the geni is out of the bottle!

To compare the US with Iran in this situation is a little far fetched dont you think?
Amahdinejad has stated publicly numerous times he wants to wipe the
little satan (Israel ) and the big satan ( the United States ) off the map!

He never said that.


What he said was that: There will never be peace in the middle east until there is regime change in Israel.

The controlled press and reporting system....is the one who told you lies about what those words, translated, are.

Im not going to say your lying but just google it! And while your at it google the
the 12th Imam Prophecy! Have a nice day.

I never said he was a better man. I said he was misquoted.

politics is a finger puppet for people to stare at, a nipple for their animal parts that like groups, teams and clans to believe in, to feel good, to feel safe, to suckle on..

Tribal religions and politics are the same sort of insanity and I would not piss on the best part of either of them. They are a bug trap for the psychologically illiterate. :)

Investing in either one or any such states of mind is a purposely contrived dead end. They were designed to look sexy. Real workable versions of either --were corrupted long, long ago, into the downward spiral that each is today.

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/17/2010/06/500x_2010-06-25_095403.jpg

[daledo]

While watching the GOP debate the other nite,I found myself yelling at the TV
When Congressman Ron Paul said he would be alright with Iran getting a nuclear
weapon! I like a lot of what Rep Paul stands for ( abolishing the fed,getting out of the
wars, even legalization of pot ) But when he talks about Iran getting a nuclear weapon
he is clearly showing he is naive on this issue! Amhadinejad and the Ayatollah have clearly

stated there intentions if or when they get the bomb! And for that rep Paul just isnt
going to get any respect!

Why don't you watch dozens of hours of Amhadinejad on youtube and find out what he really says. Don't trust what the Zionist controlled media in America says. He really knows what is going on in the world and how it is run and isn't afraid of saying it. This is the reason they want him out. I see you are new to this forum so I will take that for the reason you are ill informed on this subject. Don't inadvertently work for TPTB by putting in people's minds that Ron Paul (the only man that can save America) doesn't know what he is doing or has anything but the US's best interest at the forethought of his mind.

You can start with watching full speeches and interviews of this man. There is no need to get all riled up about him... start to understand his position and viewpoints.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4phNuwx8Hs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIc2fhDYG78

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpOq4ofUMCg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNEKnqi9NQQ

[Carmody]

If you want to help Ron Paul, one way to do it might be to make up t-shirts that say "Ron Paul Personal Security Guard".

It drives the point home.

The only time politics is useful is when you understand that it is a contrived mechanism, and you treat it that way, to display the insanity of it's true face, out in the streets, right from the get-go.

Just by anyone reading the simple message on the t-shirt, the point becomes abundantly clear. That is a potent enough statement that everyone who sees that t-shirt on you, might find that every single other potential candidate becomes - meaningless.

Five simple words make is clear that you are engaging in a war. For, in fact, if you want to have this happen, then that is the dedication you will be required to have.

Go big, or stay home. Otherwise, you WILL lose. For the other guys are playing for keeps and they have the advantage of owning the field.

And if you wear that shirt, you take most of their advantage away from them, you begin the process of removing the people's ignorance out of the system --that they have contrived.

For if you play their game, of trying to sneak something up on them, you will lose. Period. For they have the field ---so take the field away from them.

[firstlook]

The underlying principle is not making people feel guilty for having fear. Its old school thinking Dr. Paul is trying to get the people out of. The GOP wants everyone to believe that Iran just wants to Kill everyone for no reason. They are Evil and have to be dealt with is the attitude that fosters the same reaction.

Leave them alone means trust that in the end people are trying to just live without killing each other. And even when it does happen, revenge and fear doesn't help to get back to rationality. Ron Paul isn't a politician. He is just a wise man trying to teach forgiveness to scared individuals.

Forgiveness isn't a trait of surrender and allowance, its about sustainability and progress. Simple.

[jagman]

I do not know which to reply to. Your assertion that Ron Paul could win the Presidency.Or that Amahdinejad is a stand up guy!
this has to be a joke lol

[firstlook]

I do not know which to reply to. Your assertion that Ron Paul could win the Presidency.Or that Amahdinejad is a stand up guy!
this has to be a joke lol

Your simplifying people's explanations.

[GCS1103]

Well, I think any country shouldn´t have any kind of nuclear weapons.

However, if the USA can have nuclear weapons, why other countries can´t have one? I agree with the first part of your statement! Even Robert J Oppenheimer knew what he had done was wrong, but the geni is out of the bottle!

To compare the US with Iran in this situation is a little far fetched dont you think?
Amahdinejad has stated publicly numerous times he wants to wipe the
little satan (Israel ) and the big satan ( the United States ) off the map!

Jagman- you and I may be alone here with this issue.;)

[RMorgan]

That second video is great.

At about 08:00, he asks: "There are countries that have 10.000 nuclear war heads. Don´t you believe that those are the ones who should be inspected? Instead of the countries that don´t have nuclear weapons? I mean, which one is more dangerous for the world? Which country should exactly be concerned here? Should Iran be concerned, or the ones that posses 10.000 nuclear bombs?"

[daledo]

That second video is great.

At about 08:00, he asks: "There are countries that have 10.000 nuclear war heads. Don´t you believe that those are the ones who should be inspected? Instead of the countries that don´t have nuclear weapons? I mean, which one is more dangerous for the world? Which country should exactly be concerned here? Should Iran be concerned, or the ones that posses 10.000 nuclear bombs?"

I have watched maybe a hundred hours of him speak and have been amazed at what he says verses how he is portrayed by the western media. The last one I posted is very good too... you can pull some quotes from that as well.

[jagman]

Well, I think any country shouldn´t have any kind of nuclear weapons.

However, if the USA can have nuclear weapons, why other countries can´t have one? I agree with the first part of your statement! Even Robert J Oppenheimer knew what he had done was wrong, but the geni is out of the bottle!

To compare the US with Iran in this situation is a little far fetched dont you think?
Amahdinejad has stated publicly numerous times he wants to wipe the
little satan (Israel ) and the big satan ( the United States ) off the map!

Jagman- you and I may be alone here with this issue.;)

I think your right GCS! there really going to beat me up for this one lol

[Alien Ramone]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QO93P6uz9t8
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-august-15-2011/indecision-2012---corn-polled-edition---ron-paul---the-top-tier?fb_ref=share_fblike&fb;_source=search_multili ne

[Carmody]

Anyway, I won't have my energy sidelined by this stuff, this sort of ping pong ---in this thread. I'm moving on. Have a nice day, jagman. :)

[daledo]

I do not know which to reply to. Your assertion that Ron Paul could win the Presidency.Or that Amahdinejad is a stand up guy!
this has to be a joke lol

You should watch the videos is this thread
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?27795-Project-for-the-New-American-Century--PNAC-

and then

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?27951-The-Power-of-Nightmares&p=285148#post285148

I hope that helps you out with your problem.

[jagman]

Great video ! Stewart makes me laugh!

[Lord Sidious]

While watching the GOP debate the other nite,I found myself yelling at the TV
When Congressman Ron Paul said he would be alright with Iran getting a nuclear
weapon! I like a lot of what Rep Paul stands for ( abolishing the fed,getting out of the
wars, even legalization of pot ) But when he talks about Iran getting a nuclear weapon
he is clearly showing he is naive on this issue! Amhadinejad and the Ayatollah have clearly

stated there intentions if or when they get the bomb! And for that rep Paul just isnt
going to get any respect!

Seeing as most of us are in ''the west'', nothing is clear.
What Amhadinejad said about israel is so far from clear.
What he really said was that the regime there would be erased from the pages of time.
What the lamestream media say is that he wants to wipe israel off the map.
Not to worry that iran is an islamic nation and that the area they are alleged to want to destroy has their third holiest site in the world there, the dome of the rock/al aqsa mosque in al quds/jerusalem.


Well, I think any country shouldn´t have any kind of nuclear weapons.

However, if the USA can have nuclear weapons, why other countries can´t have one?

Should Iran just sit down and wait until the USA decides to attack it?

I really think the US would think twice before attacking a country that have nuclear weapons, and that´s why the US gets so angry about it.

The USA wants to attack Iran, but if Iran gets to build nukes...Then it´s another story.

I am with you, no nukes for anyone.
Problem is, there are far more powerful ''doomsday'' weapons out there.
I want ALL the weapons gone.




Im not going to say your lying but just google it! And while your at it google the
the 12th Imam Prophecy! Have a nice day.

I would strongly suggest you DON'T say Carmody is lying, that doesn't happen.
I put it to you, that you are seriously mistaken and that you are listening to the enemies of iran.
What do you expect them to say?


I do not know which to reply to. Your assertion that Ron Paul could win the Presidency.Or that Amahdinejad is a stand up guy!
this has to be a joke lol

Erm, no, neither is a joke.
If the people could truly have their say, he could win.
And from what I have seen, Amahdinejad is a stand up guy.
Unlike most of the trash in our systems.

It appears that you are concerned about the well being of israel and the people there.
As am I.
Do you know who is the biggest threat to their safety?
The owners of israel.
The knesset.
Their military commanders.
Luckily, the everyday people are tired of wars and having a military that costs so much, their standard of living sucks.
Peace and I mean true peace is not hard for the area to achieve, but only between genuine parties.
The time is coming.

[T Smith]

If you want to help Ron Paul, one way to do it might be to make up t-shirts that say "Ron Paul Personal Security Guard".

It drives the point home.

The only time politics is useful is when you understand that it is a contrived mechanism, and you treat it that way, to display the insanity of it's true face, out in the streets, right from the get-go.

Just by anyone reading the simple message on the t-shirt, the point becomes abundantly clear. That is a potent enough statement that everyone who sees that t-shirt on you, might find that every single other potential candidate becomes - meaningless.

Five simple words make is clear that you are engaging in a war. For, in fact, if you want to have this happen, then that is the dedication you will be required to have.

Go big, or stay home. Otherwise, you WILL lose. For the other guys are playing for keeps and they have the advantage of owning the field.

And if you wear that shirt, you take most of their advantage away from them, you begin the process of removing the people's ignorance out of the system --that they have contrived.

For if you play their game, of trying to sneak something up on them, you will lose. Period. For they have the field ---so take the field away from them.

That is one of your most powerful posts, Carmody. Good stuff.

[jagman]

Im not suggesting anything,! Do your own home work! I have nothing against the Iranian
people or muslims as long has there not radical! Amahdinejad does not represent
the Iranian people just the hardliners.

[Lord Sidious]

Well, you are suggesting, you posted your opinion.
You didn't rebut any others so far either.

[Jake]

I would strongly suggest you DON'T say Carmody is lying, that doesn't happen.

:):):) :):):)

[jagman]

listen pal, I fundamentally disagree with a lot of these statements being made, but im not going to reply to them all !
People have the right to there opinion, has do I !

[T Smith]

While watching the GOP debate the other nite,I found myself yelling at the TV
When Congressman Ron Paul said he would be alright with Iran getting a nuclear
weapon! I like a lot of what Rep Paul stands for ( abolishing the fed,getting out of the
wars, even legalization of pot ) But when he talks about Iran getting a nuclear weapon
he is clearly showing he is naive on this issue! Amhadinejad and the Ayatollah have clearly

stated there intentions if or when they get the bomb! And for that rep Paul just isnt
going to get any respect!

I understand fully your vantage here. We all understand reality based on the available data, and in that sense our judgements are only as good as the information available to us. Bearing this in mind, I would suggest your own understanding of this matter is largely based on Western propaganda. We are all subject to a very sophisticated, powerful, and all-encompassing mind-control apparatus that serves ever so subtly to shape the worldview of even the most discerning among us. But let's just assume for a moment I am not correct in my judgement here and Iran's sole purpose to procure a nuclear weapon is to annihilate Israel, as our illustrious Ministry of Truth would have us believe. If that is true (and I concede the possibility) what we are really being asked to buy is a much more insidious idea, that the entire nation of Iran is a suicide culture, a sort of national version of the stereotypical suicide bomber willing to give up his/her life for a larger cause. Is that really what Iran is? Given this talking point, and we should make this the central talking point because what we are being asked to believe is nothing short of this, I advance a most sincere question: does the data really suggest that Iran would wipe herself off the map for the chance to launch one nuclear blow at Israel? Is that really how all the available information leads us to judge Iran?

I'm not buying it. Not because I'm naive (I understand the wildcard of a rogue sociopathic leader) but because it doesn't ring true to me. Lord Sidious has articulated well why this doesn't ring true (the reality undergirding the demagoguing just doesn't suggest it) but there are other, more common sense reasons that require no citations. It rings much more true that this is mostly a demagoguing manipulation tactic employed against the masses. That possibility aligns much more to human nature within the control structure than the possibility of self-induced genocide of an entire culture/nation/civilization. It rings much more true to me that we might well create the type of rogue sociopathic leader capable of the self-induced genocide we fear most if we continue to pursue a policy of imposing the very control structure we fight daily in our own lives upon an entire nation, of essentially cornering an injured animal and leaving it no other choice but to sacrifice itself as its only means to fight. That policy is dangerous. It's reckless. It's hubris. It's shallow and foolhardy.

Ron Paul may not be conveying in the most eloquent way these points, and he may not be cutting through the deeply-engrained propaganda in his arguments, but he is far from naive.

[jackovesk]

While watching the GOP debate the other nite,I found myself yelling at the TV
When Congressman Ron Paul said he would be alright with Iran getting a nuclear
weapon! I like a lot of what Rep Paul stands for ( abolishing the fed,getting out of the
wars, even legalization of pot ) But when he talks about Iran getting a nuclear weapon
he is clearly showing he is naive on this issue! Amhadinejad and the Ayatollah have clearly

stated there intentions if or when they get the bomb! And for that rep Paul just isnt
going to get any respect!

G'Day Jagman,

Please reconsider your US MSM Mind-Controlled position on Ron Paul's statement, and opening your awareness as to Why you made the statement in the 1st place!

Why should I say such a thing? Let me break it down for you...

1. Have you even considered what you stated above is EXACTLY what the MSM has been pushing 'Down The Throat's' of their worldwide audience for years!

2. Let me show you a Generic Smilie of What (In Your Case) the MSM has managed to Accomplish especially in the USA, its called :fish2: (Fishing for FEAR) in Laymans Terms the TPTW & MSM are saying to the American people 'Let's 'F' Up the peoples Minds with so much FEAR, so they can't Piss & Sh#t without us..!

i.e. HOW MANY TIMES have you heard the supposed Amhadinejad Quote:

"Israel must be Wiped off the Map"..?


Translation controversy:

Many news sources repeated the Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting statement by Ahmadinejad that "Israel must be wiped off the map",[5][6] an English idiom which means to "cause a place to stop existing",[7] or to "obliterate totally",[8] or "destroy completely".[9]

Ahmadinejad's phrase was " بايد از صفحه روزگار محو شود " according to the text published on the President's Office's website.[10]

The translation presented by the official Islamic Republic News Agency has been challenged by Arash Norouzi, who says the statement "wiped off the map" was never made and that Ahmadinejad did not refer to the nation or land mass of Israel, but to the "regime occupying Jerusalem". Norouzi translated the original Persian to English, with the result, "the Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time." https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel



The devil is in the detail, wiping Israel off the map suggests a physical genocidal assault, a literal population relocation or elimination akin to what the Nazis did. According to numerous different translations, Ahmadinejad never used the word "map," instead his statement was in the context of time and applied to the Zionist regime occupying Jerusalem. Ahmadinejad was expressing his future hope that the Zionist regime in Israel would fall, not that Iran was going to physically annex the country and its population.

To claim Ahmadinejad has issued a rallying cry to ethnically cleanse Israel is akin to saying that Churchill wanted to murder all Germans when he stated his desire to crush the Nazis. This is about the demise of a corrupt occupying power, not the deaths of millions of innocent people.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/january2007/260107offthemap.htm

3. Ron Paul was merely stating (Hypothetically) if Israel is aloud to have over 300 Nuclear Weapons! Why can't Iran have just 1..?

4. He went on to say (Hypothetically) it would be Suicidal for Iran to use their 1 or 2 Nuclear Weapons (If they had them) against Israel's 300 +! He fininshed by saying something like that happening is Simply Ridiculous!

Summation:

I will repeat the opening sentence in this post "Please reconsider your US MSM Mind-Controlled position on Ron Paul's statement, and opening your awareness as to Why you made the statement in the 1st place!"

I hope you think a little more rationally on the Truth before making such a 'Silly Statement'!

Regards,

Jack

[Lord Sidious]

listen pal, I fundamentally disagree with a lot of these statements being made, but im not going to reply to them all !
People have the right to there opinion, has do I !

Well, ''pal'', debate is where you put your opinion up and then others put theirs up and we hash it out so that we all get a better idea of where we are at.

[jagman]

T Smith, Your response was eloquently written! Please allow me to retort. You are clearly working from the premise that amahdinejad
is not a deranged psychopath Who believes in the 12 imam prophecy! And I do! See its a fundamental disagreement! You have
Every rite to your Opinion!

Again, You made you made some really good arguments and you stayed away from talking points! kudos sir

[loveandgratitude]

In Fact, It is Israel that we need to be afraid of. It is predicted that Israel will try to attack Iran but are defeated and the whole country crushed as a result of their homocidal leaders.

[Calz]

In Fact, It is Israel that we need to be afraid of. It is predicted that Israel will try to attack Iran but are defeated and the whole country crushed as a result of their homocidal leaders.

... or the zionists who control israel from afar ...

[jagman]

listen pal, I fundamentally disagree with a lot of these statements being made, but im not going to reply to them all !
People have the right to there opinion, has do I !

Well, ''pal'', debate is where you put your opinion up and then others put theirs up and we hash it out so that we all get a better idea of where we are at.

hey pal, Dont throw my words back at me sir! Come up with your own. lol

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Maybe we shouldn't be afraid of anybody.

[loveandgratitude]

Maybe we shouldn't be afraid of anybody.

One day soon, that would be nice. In the world that we all dream about, where nobody is afraid of anything.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Maybe we shouldn't be afraid of anybody.

One day soon, that would be nice. In the world that we all dream about, where nobody is afraid of anything.

If you wish to be free from fear, then lay your fear aside. The journey is easier without it. Fear is something we hold onto. It is an attachment. We think we need it. It has a comfortable familiarity. It is a burden we need not carry.

Is the world dangerous? Yes. Can we more effectively respond to it in practical and effective ways with minds that are clear and free from fear? Yes.

[jackovesk]

Maybe we shouldn't be afraid of anybody.

:bump2:

Correct...

Americans should all start 'Thinking for Themselves Again' and tune out of the 'Shovel-Ready MSM Propaganda' spewing out all over your TV screens!

Just then, Maybe, Just Maybe, you might get your Country back!

[jagman]

Maybe we shouldn't be afraid of anybody.

One day soon, that would be nice. In the world that we all dream about, where nobody is afraid of anything.

Good way to end this post! And has the Beatles once put it LET IT BE,OH LET BE
WHISPER WORDS OF WISDOM LET IT BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !

[Seikou-Kishi]

The only person who can put your fear to rest for good is you yourself. When you seek the help of others, their help only staves off fear until such time as they are no longer able to offer you the help you seek. Lay fear to rest for yourself, and those machinations which rely upon your fear will find you unresponsive to the point of immunity. Fear is their way in — how long can the castle stand while the gates are open?

[Lord Sidious]

listen pal, I fundamentally disagree with a lot of these statements being made, but im not going to reply to them all !
People have the right to there opinion, has do I !

Well, ''pal'', debate is where you put your opinion up and then others put theirs up and we hash it out so that we all get a better idea of where we are at.

hey pal, Dont throw my words back at me sir! Come up with your own. lol

No worries nugget.
So, you ready to debate yet? :p


Maybe we shouldn't be afraid of anybody.

You should be afraid of anyone with a lightsabre.

[Foggy]

jagman, my observation is wars are caused by closed minds among other things. It has nothing to do with opinions, just facts.
The lamestream media insures those minds cannot expand by repeating lies. The media has an agenda as
you may recognize in the report and video below:
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/jon-stewart-scolds-media-for-ignoring-rep-ron-paul-i-mean-fck-that-guy-right/


Im not suggesting anything,! Do your own home work! I have nothing against the Iranian
people or muslims as long has there not radical! Amahdinejad does not represent
the Iranian people just the hardliners.
You are parroting lamestream media lies unknowingly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_KAj8O8qes&playnext=1&list=PLBF6B1592CE51FF8C

World War III Denial - This young man gets it. Do you?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=465T7v8KT2Q
WWIII is already underway, though it hasn't been declared officially, but for some people this concept is very difficult to come to terms with. This isn't all that surprising though. Imagine if you were to talk to an American on the day that Hitler invaded Poland... do you really think that American would have realized that WWII was underway?

By the way, are you aware who wrote a letter to Pres. Bush? Here's the tail end of the 2006 letter:


You are familiar with history. Aside from the Middle Ages, in what other point in history has scientific and technical progress been a crime? Can the possibility of scientific achievements being utilized for military purposes be reason enough to oppose science and technology altogether? If such a supposition is true, then all scientific disciplines, including physics, chemistry, mathematics, medicine, engineering, etc. must be opposed. […]

Can one deny the signs of change in the world today? Is this situation of the world today comparable to that of ten years ago? Changes happen fast and come at a furious pace.

The people of the world are not happy with the status quo and pay little heed to the promises and comments made by a number of influential world leaders. Many people around the world feel insecure and oppose the spreading of insecurity and war and do not approve of and do not accept dubious policies.

The people are protesting the increasing gap between the haves and the have-nots and the rich and poor countries.

The people are disgusted with the increasing corruption.

The people of many countries are angry about the attacks on their cultural foundations and the disintegration of families. They are equally dismayed with the fading of care and compassion. The people of the world have no faith in international organizations, because their rights are not advocated by these organizations.
-- From Letter to President Bush, May 9, 2006


President Ahmadinejad of Iran wrote that letter. Should you desire to read the whole letter or learn more about the man whose name you misspelled and professed to know so much, click here or look up your own site:
http://ahmadinejadquotes.blogspot.com/

There is a reason protesters sport banners and slogans about the UN and the IMF, the latter one dubbed "International Mother Fuxxxr"
The people get it, President Ahmadinejad gets it; do you? They know a dark cabal rules the world with Imperialism. John Perkins wrote a book "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man" that will enlighten you should you choose to read it.



The composition of the Security Council must gain a logical and democratic balance. If permanent membership is accepted for some, then an acceptable mix of representatives of all continents and major civilizations must acquire permanent seats in the Council. I wish to underline our deep dismay that over fifty Islamic countries encompassing more than one 1.2 billion people do not have a permanent seat in the Security Council, nor does Africa with its huge capabilities and potentials, and that the vast continent of Asia with its ancient civilizations has only one permanent seat.
-- From Speech at United Nations General Assembly, September 14, 2005, President Ahmadinejad

Enough already. You either get it, or you don't. I'm done with this as a dog's dinner.

[Unified Serenity]

I like Ron Paul a lot. First of all, he is not running for leader of Israel. Ron Paul is running for President of the United States of America. He is a strict constitutionalist and as President his first responsibility is to follow the constitution, to protect America, it's borders, and people. I think he states common sense and HISTORICAL facts that other politicians either lie about or are ignorant about. They don't want to recognize the blow back problems that have caused many in other countries to not like America.

To simply say "They don't like us because of our freedoms" is ludicrous. Maybe it's because we have been meddling in nation building for seventy years or more. Maybe it's because we have killed millions around the world fighting for peace, liberty and freedom supposedly, but oddly when you look deeper into the situations of those wars it was nothing but a money making project for the industrial military complex. We have serious problems with our infrastructure here at home. We have serious problems with our economy. We have serious problems with our borders, and yet we spend millions, no sorry billions on having military bases all over the world, aid for this or that, and we don't take care of our problems at home.

I don't think RP is an isolationist per say, but someone who takes our founding documents seriously, and the lessons our founding fathers tried to teach us and one was to not get ourselves into entagling alliances with other nations. I for one am tired of America being the worlds policemen and everyone depending on America to flex our might when the proverbial SHTF. We are a great nation of very giving people. We have helped nations worldwide when disasters have hit, but the time has come to step back, look at what has happened to our economy, our families, and soul as a nation. It's time to cut back, deal with our border problems, end the fed, reduce the IMC, rebuild our infrastructure, focus on new energy and inventing once again.

[loveandgratitude]

I shall fear no evil..........

I stand at the point of no return, and think of all those who come together. I stand at the point of no return and think of all I've learned.
Now is the time now is the hour as I stand here I feel the power.
The power of love, the power of grace, and the awesome power of unmovable faith. I stand and scream at the darkness at the top of my voice. I shall fear no evil, for God walks with me, I shall fear no evil for you know whose child I am, I shall fear no evil for you know my Fathers name.
Now is the time now is the hour. So stand with me my brothers, stand with me my sisters, stand with me and feel the power. Now stare the darkness in the eyes and cry with me at the top of your voice.
We shall fear no evil for our Father walks with us.
We shall fear no evil for you know whose children we are.
We shall fear no evil for you know our fathers name.
Now Evil go and crawl back into the abyss from which you came.
We fear you not, we stand strong in love.


By phenix stormcloud

WE NOW STAND IN THE 11TH HOUR.....................WHERE ARE YOU STANDING RIGHT NOW

[Isthatso]

I've been impressed with Ahmadinejad in the few interviews I've watched. He makes a lot of sense and holds the mirror up to the U.S. leadership like none other I've seen.

I thought it was hilarious when he challenged George Bush to a live debate.

:drum:

Priceless!

[jagman]

I have neither the time or inclination to carry this on any further! So debate yourself and you will become the masterbater ! lol

[Hervé]

Me think the poll questions are too much the results of MSM influence.

May be... just maybe, a more realistic question would be: "Would Israel use one of her nukes to bomb herself and blame it on the neighbors?"

[Calz]

May be... just maybe, a more realistic question would be: "Would Israel use one of her nukes to bomb herself and blame it on the neighbors?"

... or perhaps the zionists who control israel, don't live there, and see the israel population as little more than cannon fodder ... use a bomb and blame it on the neighbors?

[loveandgratitude]

May be... just maybe, a more realistic question would be: "Would Israel use one of her nukes to bomb herself and blame it on the neighbors?"

... or perhaps the zionists who control israel, don't live there, and see the israel population as little more than cannon fodder ... use a bomb and blame it on the neighbors?


Unforunately for Israel we are getting closer to the truth.

[Hervé]

May be... just maybe, a more realistic question would be: "Would Israel use one of her nukes to bomb herself and blame it on the neighbors?"

... or perhaps the zionists who control israel, don't live there, and see the israel population as little more than cannon fodder ... use a bomb and blame it on the neighbors?


Getting even more realistic!

[jagman]

The only person who can put your fear to rest for good is you yourself. When you seek the help of others, their help only staves off fear until such time as they are no longer able to offer you the help you seek. Lay fear to rest for yourself, and those machinations which rely upon your fear will find you unresponsive to the point of immunity. Fear is their way in — how long can the castle stand while the gates are open?

(Rubbing my chin)
veeery I n t e r e s t i n g! Well Oliver S, I take It Im fear mongering in your Opinion? Or am i just full of fear? Or is it that my Opinion is out of your comfort zone? See I can tolerate everyones Opinion! They just cant tolerate mine.

Thomas Jefferson once wrote: An association of men who will not quarrel
with one another is a thing which has never existed, from the greatest
confederacy of nations down to a town meeting or a vestry.

oh by the way, Staves what a great word so archaic ! I will use it lol

[Seikou-Kishi]

The only person who can put your fear to rest for good is you yourself. When you seek the help of others, their help only staves off fear until such time as they are no longer able to offer you the help you seek. Lay fear to rest for yourself, and those machinations which rely upon your fear will find you unresponsive to the point of immunity. Fear is their way in — how long can the castle stand while the gates are open?

(Rubbing my chin)
veeery I n t e r e s t i n g! Well Oliver S, I take It Im fear mongering in your Opinion? Or am i just full of fear? Or is it that my Opinion is out of your comfort zone? See I can tolerate everyones Opinion! They just cant tolerate mine.

Thomas Jefferson once wrote: An association of men who will not quarrel
with one another is a thing which has never existed, from the greatest
confederacy of nations down to a town meeting or a vestry.

oh by the way, Staves what a great word so archaic ! I will use it lol

Ah, so sorry for the misunderstanding. I was responding in agreement to a message earlier by WhiskeyMystic. I probably should have highlighted that in my post, or perhaps the rest of you should just hurry up and develop your telepathy so I don't have to do reasonable things like that lol :P

[jackovesk]

I have neither the time or inclination to carry this on any further! So debate yourself and you will become the masterbater ! lol

Runaway Runaway... :scared: :yield:

http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/epic-treadmill-fail.gif


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCI18qAoKq4&feature=player_embedded

[Lord Sidious]

I have neither the time or inclination to carry this on any further! So debate yourself and you will become the masterbater ! lol

We don't appreciate that sort of thing here.
You started this debate, if you can't handle the heat, stay away from the kitchen.
Only those not strong in their beliefs run from open debate, much like bush did from your iranian friend.

[Buck]

I am really struck with the marked contrast reflected in this thread- on the one hand this is a great example of the community operating at a very high level of discourse. Reading all the responses (Sidious and Carmody most especially) it is amazing how much care and thought (sourcing, specific examples, careful phrasing, bullet point rebuttals, etc, all made in an effort to invite the OP to step away from the shallow repetition of catch phrases and talking points and open up to a different vantage point.

And Jagman, after all this careful effort (Avalon energy btw, our currency of the realm here), your reply is;

"So debate yourself and you will become the masterbater ! lol"

Really.

I have to tell you. My hackles go up just reading your comments. Not because of your viewpoint, but rather your intention (or lack of) as I perceive it. And maybe that's just fine, after all, we made excellent use of your presence, so it is not a total waste of time. But, I for one, hope if you are going to insist on continuing to represent for the MSM here at Avalon, you can do better than the sophmoric prattle quoted above. If you really want to engage, the invitation is much more formidable than that. The ticket to this debate is an open heart, and open mind.

And if you rise to that challenge, I have a hunch it will be so much easier for you to find your own particular voice of sincerity and courage, instead of the fearful sniping at the heels that your energy reveals now.

[Calz]

Good post Buck :thumb:

[jagman]

This isnt a spelling contest, And im no fan of the media either! Believe what ever you want to believe Froggy! So did
Nevel chamberlain

[jagman]

I am really struck with the marked contrast reflected in this thread- on the one hand this is a great example of the community operating at a very high level of discourse. Reading all the responses (Sidious and Carmody most especially) it is amazing how much care and thought (sourcing, specific examples, careful phrasing, bullet point rebuttals, etc, all made in an effort to invite the OP to step away from the shallow repetition of catch phrases and talking points and open up to a different vantage point.

And Jagman, after all this careful effort (Avalon energy btw, our currency of the realm here), your reply is;

"So debate yourself and you will become the masterbater ! lol"

Really.

I have to tell you. My hackles go up just reading your comments. Not because of your viewpoint, but rather your intention (or lack of) as I perceive it. And maybe that's just fine, after all, we made excellent use of your presence, so it is not a total waste of time. But, I for one, hope if you are going to insist on continuing to represent for the MSM here at Avalon, you can do better than the sophmoric prattle quoted above. If you really want to engage, the invitation is much more formidable than that. The ticket to this debate is an open heart, and open mind.

And if you rise to that challenge, I have a hunch it will be so much easier for you to find your own particular voice of sincerity and courage, instead of the fearful sniping at the heels that your energy reveals now.

What a thought provoking analysis of events that have transpired on this post Except for one thing! I DONT CARE! way to stir the pot! Just let it die and I
will become Nevel chamberlain lol

[jagman]

The only person who can put your fear to rest for good is you yourself. When you seek the help of others, their help only staves off fear until such time as they are no longer able to offer you the help you seek. Lay fear to rest for yourself, and those machinations which rely upon your fear will find you unresponsive to the point of immunity. Fear is their way in — how long can the castle stand while the gates are open?

(Rubbing my chin)
veeery I n t e r e s t i n g! Well Oliver S, I take It Im fear mongering in your Opinion? Or am i just full of fear? Or is it that my Opinion is out of your comfort zone? See I can tolerate everyones Opinion! They just cant tolerate mine.

Thomas Jefferson once wrote: An association of men who will not quarrel
with one another is a thing which has never existed, from the greatest
confederacy of nations down to a town meeting or a vestry.

oh by the way, Staves what a great word so archaic ! I will use it lol

Ah, so sorry for the misunderstanding. I was responding in agreement to a message earlier by WhiskeyMystic. I probably should have highlighted that in my post, or perhaps the rest of you should just hurry up and develop your telepathy so I don't have to do reasonable things like that lol :P

Sooo sorry lol

[T Smith]

T Smith, Your response was eloquently written! Please allow me to retort. You are clearly working from the premise that amahdinejad
is not a deranged psychopath Who believes in the 12 imam prophecy! And I do! See its a fundamental disagreement! You have
Every rite to your Opinion!

Again, You made you made some really good arguments and you stayed away from talking points! kudos sir

I am not working from that premise. I'm working from the premise that I'm not going to believe he's a deranged psychopath exclusively and necessarily because an agenda-ladden propaganda agency and all its subscribing army tell me so. However, there are facts outside this agency and none of them that I can see suggest he is any more deranged or psychopathic than anyone with the proclivity to achieve a position of national leadership.

But if we are to expand the charge to deranged psychopathy... oh my. Are we in trouble. We will also need to consider the entire of our own Western political class, many of whom specifically worship death and suffering, as a religion, are members of Skull and Bones, attend Bohemian Grove ceremonies, etc. etc. These men enjoy the highest ranks in power and maintain real (not imagined) control of nuclear weapons. Then there is the Leo Stauss school of ideological extremism that has produced a whole legion of religious zealots (you can't really call this anything but religion) and who have galvanized a profoundly influential neo-conservative movement. These ideologues have risen within the ranks of the most powerfully known control apparatus on the planet and have at their disposal the full spectrum dominance of the most powerfully known military on the planet. They also have at their fingertips the full resources of Madison Avenue, which can convince millions of unthinking people to believe whatever they want them to believe. These men have waged (in reality, not in imagination) psychological as well as conventional warfare on humanity and are directly responsible for millions of deaths, all in the name of a valiant and just ideological vision. Is there any other kind of ideological vision?

And while there may be times when the ends truly do justify the means, every time one navigates this kind of thinking, he or she flirts with sharing the worldview of the deranged psychopath. So let us again ask the question. Could Amahdinejad be a deranged psychopathic? Possibly so. But in this case we need also put Dick Cheney and all his controllers on trial. If this is so we have much greater issues at hand.

I for one think we need more sanity on the world stage. Ron Paul is right about this.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

On a tangent, I have to say that I greatly look forward to the day when the people of Iran can shake off the theocracy and be our pals. They are a wonderful people. I want to play video games with them and show them around San Francisco.

[jagman]

T Smith, Your response was eloquently written! Please allow me to retort. You are clearly working from the premise that amahdinejad
is not a deranged psychopath Who believes in the 12 imam prophecy! And I do! See its a fundamental disagreement! You have
Every rite to your Opinion!

Again, You made you made some really good arguments and you stayed away from talking points! kudos sir

I am not working from that premise. I'm working from the premise that I'm not going to believe he's a deranged psychopath exclusively and necessarily because an agenda-ladden propaganda agency and all its subscribing army tell me so. However, there are facts outside this agency and none of them that I can see suggest he is any more deranged or psychopathic than anyone with the proclivity to achieve a position of national leadership.

But if we are to expand the charge to deranged psychopathy... oh my. Are we in trouble. We will also need to consider the entire of our own Western political class, many of whom specifically worship death and suffering, as a religion, are members of Skull and Bones, attend Bohemian Grove ceremonies, etc. etc. These men enjoy the highest ranks in power and maintain real (not imagined) control of nuclear weapons. Then there is the Leo Stauss school of ideological extremism that has produced a whole legion of religious zealots (you can't really call this anything but religion) and who have galvanized a profoundly influential neo-conservative movement. These ideologues have risen within the ranks of the most powerfully known control apparatus on the planet and have at their disposal the full spectrum dominance of the most powerfully known military on the planet. They also have at their fingertips the full resources of Madison Avenue, which can convince millions of unthinking people to believe whatever they want them to believe. These men have waged (in reality, not in imagination) psychological as well as conventional warfare on humanity and are directly responsible for millions of deaths, all in the name of a valiant and just ideological vision. Is there any other kind of ideological vision?

And while there may be times when the ends truly do justify the means, every time one navigates this kind of thinking, he or she flirts with sharing the worldview of the deranged psychopath. So let us again ask the question. Could Amahdinejad be a deranged psychopathic? Possibly so. But in this case we need also put Dick Cheney and all his controllers on trial. If this is so we have much greater issues at hand.

I for one think we need more sanity on the world stage. Ron Paul is right about this.

Excellent rebuttal, T Smith ! Sounds like a good time to close this post out!
Let it go folks, I know where you all stand on this issue! And although I throughly
thought it was unfair to me ( 20 people throwing the kitchen sink at me)!
I can handle it Im a big boy! In the words of the immortal Yogi Berra:
When you come to a fork in the road.....take it!

[T Smith]

T Smith, Your response was eloquently written! Please allow me to retort. You are clearly working from the premise that amahdinejad
is not a deranged psychopath Who believes in the 12 imam prophecy! And I do! See its a fundamental disagreement! You have
Every rite to your Opinion!

Again, You made you made some really good arguments and you stayed away from talking points! kudos sir

I am not working from that premise. I'm working from the premise that I'm not going to believe he's a deranged psychopath exclusively and necessarily because an agenda-ladden propaganda agency and all its subscribing army tell me so. However, there are facts outside this agency and none of them that I can see suggest he is any more deranged or psychopathic than anyone with the proclivity to achieve a position of national leadership.

But if we are to expand the charge to deranged psychopathy... oh my. Are we in trouble. We will also need to consider the entire of our own Western political class, many of whom specifically worship death and suffering, as a religion, are members of Skull and Bones, attend Bohemian Grove ceremonies, etc. etc. These men enjoy the highest ranks in power and maintain real (not imagined) control of nuclear weapons. Then there is the Leo Stauss school of ideological extremism that has produced a whole legion of religious zealots (you can't really call this anything but religion) and who have galvanized a profoundly influential neo-conservative movement. These ideologues have risen within the ranks of the most powerfully known control apparatus on the planet and have at their disposal the full spectrum dominance of the most powerfully known military on the planet. They also have at their fingertips the full resources of Madison Avenue, which can convince millions of unthinking people to believe whatever they want them to believe. These men have waged (in reality, not in imagination) psychological as well as conventional warfare on humanity and are directly responsible for millions of deaths, all in the name of a valiant and just ideological vision. Is there any other kind of ideological vision?

And while there may be times when the ends truly do justify the means, every time one navigates this kind of thinking, he or she flirts with sharing the worldview of the deranged psychopath. So let us again ask the question. Could Amahdinejad be a deranged psychopathic? Possibly so. But in this case we need also put Dick Cheney and all his controllers on trial. If this is so we have much greater issues at hand.

I for one think we need more sanity on the world stage. Ron Paul is right about this.

Excellent rebuttal, T Smith ! Sounds like a good time to close this post out!
Let it go folks, I know where you all stand on this issue! And although I throughly
thought it was unfair to me ( 20 people throwing the kitchen sink at me)!
I can handle it Im a big boy! In the words of the immortal Yogi Berra:
When you come to a fork in the road.....take it!

For the record, I respect all viewpoints here on Avalon. I'm not too interested in throwing the kitchen sink at anyone when I have a differing viewpoint. The more we discuss these things openly and intelligently, the better understanding we will all have of the real picture at hand.

Best Regards,

T Smith

[risveglio]

I think Paul is right on this one. In reality, short of invading Iran, how could we stop them from getting nuclear weapons? Do we really think invading Iran is a good idea? Bruce Bueno de Mesquita has a computer model that makes predictions and he has a much better record than any government intelligence agency and his model says the best thing we can do is nothing.

http://www.ted.com/talks/bruce_bueno_de_mesquita_predicts_iran_s_future.html

As for Ron Paul not having a shot at the presidency while Perry, Romney, Bachmann and Obama do have a shot. Well if that is true and not just media hype, it shows how lost the American people have become.

[Seikou-Kishi]

I'm sorry, but the idea that any nuclear country can tell other countries not to go nuclear is disgusting hypocrisy. They all cry "non-proliferation" -- oh yeah, only after they themselves have it.

[Maia Gabrial]

I say AMEN to that, RMorgan! There shouldn't be ANY nukes on the planet. But any country with nuke capabilities makes the US or any country think twice about messing with them....

[Lord Sidious]

T Smith, Your response was eloquently written! Please allow me to retort. You are clearly working from the premise that amahdinejad
is not a deranged psychopath Who believes in the 12 imam prophecy! And I do! See its a fundamental disagreement! You have
Every rite to your Opinion!

Again, You made you made some really good arguments and you stayed away from talking points! kudos sir

I am not working from that premise. I'm working from the premise that I'm not going to believe he's a deranged psychopath exclusively and necessarily because an agenda-ladden propaganda agency and all its subscribing army tell me so. However, there are facts outside this agency and none of them that I can see suggest he is any more deranged or psychopathic than anyone with the proclivity to achieve a position of national leadership.

But if we are to expand the charge to deranged psychopathy... oh my. Are we in trouble. We will also need to consider the entire of our own Western political class, many of whom specifically worship death and suffering, as a religion, are members of Skull and Bones, attend Bohemian Grove ceremonies, etc. etc. These men enjoy the highest ranks in power and maintain real (not imagined) control of nuclear weapons. Then there is the Leo Stauss school of ideological extremism that has produced a whole legion of religious zealots (you can't really call this anything but religion) and who have galvanized a profoundly influential neo-conservative movement. These ideologues have risen within the ranks of the most powerfully known control apparatus on the planet and have at their disposal the full spectrum dominance of the most powerfully known military on the planet. They also have at their fingertips the full resources of Madison Avenue, which can convince millions of unthinking people to believe whatever they want them to believe. These men have waged (in reality, not in imagination) psychological as well as conventional warfare on humanity and are directly responsible for millions of deaths, all in the name of a valiant and just ideological vision. Is there any other kind of ideological vision?

And while there may be times when the ends truly do justify the means, every time one navigates this kind of thinking, he or she flirts with sharing the worldview of the deranged psychopath. So let us again ask the question. Could Amahdinejad be a deranged psychopathic? Possibly so. But in this case we need also put Dick Cheney and all his controllers on trial. If this is so we have much greater issues at hand.

I for one think we need more sanity on the world stage. Ron Paul is right about this.

Excellent rebuttal, T Smith ! Sounds like a good time to close this post out!
Let it go folks, I know where you all stand on this issue! And although I throughly
thought it was unfair to me ( 20 people throwing the kitchen sink at me)!
I can handle it Im a big boy! In the words of the immortal Yogi Berra:
When you come to a fork in the road.....take it!

To me, it looks like you just wanna clown around.
You start threads to stir, make posts and won't debate, just wanna sling crap at the people who rebut you.
Why did you join?