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View Full Version : The Problem with Money is the Unseen Deeds Done to Earn it.



Astar Of David
9th June 2010, 22:14
First off let me state for all the negative thinkers this is not about removing the economy and living in the bush. This is simply a new way of looking at what your buying and or selling.

To explain the problem with money we need to give an example.

Imagine that you work for a man who pays you a pay check every month. You take that money home to your family and buy food and share the food with the family. Everything's great in thereory. You know you earn honest money for your job it is a good deed.
But wait, what if your boss pays you with money he earns killing dolphins in cruel ways? Or if he earned his money by dumping toxic waste in the ocean. Or destroying rain forests.
Thus we can say the money your boss earns carries a negative Karma. You might as well doom your family. Why? Because by excepting this "hurt" money and by working for a boss that does these things is like supporting his cause.
And thus any negative Karma earned hurting earth flows along with the money that he pays you.

That is why I believe in Barter Trade. You can witness what deeds are done to earn the trade. Unlike with money you never know what deed was done to earn it.

Lets say I need a well dug in my yard. Well I don't have the equipment to dig such a deep hole. But I know someone who does. And he needs a new stereo his old one failed. I offer him if you dig my well I'll give you a new stereo. So I go to the Stereo shop and trade a years supply of rice. (assuming the stereo is made of environmentally friendly parts in an environmentally safe shop) In the case above you know the value of all trades were done with positive Karma.

Lets go even deeper.
Even buying fruits and vegetables that have traveled via truck (truck exhaust)
Or fruits and vegetables that have pesticides used while growing. (non-organic) (toxic chemical industry)
All earns you negative Karma.
Why? Because when you buy these products you support hurting the earth.
Another place to earn negative Karma is buying products with lots of waste packaging or plastic containers or plastic bags .Or by not recycling or littering these all go against earth so earth will go against you.

Another example of earning negative Karma killing plants.
I'll use this example just to show how small it can be. I recently uprooted my lawn to put a garden in. I gained negative Karma for killing the grass. To avoid this Karma, explain ones intentions as you start tearing the grass up. And express that you feel sorry for hurting the earth but in return you will plant a garden. Some people might think that's too much effort to think of all the details that follow these concepts. But in reality it's not that hard to understand. The concept is to realize life around you has the right to exists from humans to animals to plants to fish to the birds & bees.
Ask permission to harm Earth give your reasons, so long as they are valid reasons or gives more in return (like a garden vrs grass gives more in return) then you will not earn the negative Karma.

And lastly if you haven't thought of this one yet tobacco smokers earn negative Karma every time they buy a pack and every time they light up. Because they are supporting pesticides that are used on the tobacco crops, they are supporting a shipping industry, they are supporting the government, they are supporting poisons like cyanide, and are also polluting the air with the man chemicals in the smokes. Stop buying government made tobacco as it supports this entire industry of Earth harming products. I am not attacking Government just pointing out their ways. In hopes that the government might want to clean up it's act if they see the reasons.

You should all be able to see some easy ways to earn positive Karma.

If you want to shed some of your earned Negative Karma:
Support locally grown. Support Organic. Grow your own. Recycle. Re-use. Re-use bags. Bring your own bags when shopping. Clean up the neighborhood. Plant a Tree. Help others. Give. Share. Love. These things all lead to eternal life.

Otherwise you support the chemical industry you are dooming the planet, and thus in return your dooming your own life and inviting pain,suffering and even death into your life.

"Wouldn't it be nice if we could see the type of "Karma" on our currency?"

Take Care.

*the main reason I used a stereo as an example is to show the negatives that there is still a type of economy so long as it's done in non-harmful ways.* We CAN work this out.

Etherios
9th June 2010, 22:36
No the problem with money is ... Money. The hole value system that make life useless and a piece of paper worth more that even the planet then NO. Resource economy is the best system ... i hope i live the day it starts.

RedeZra
9th June 2010, 23:04
it would help heaps if the unlawful practise of usury came to an abrupt end

why is usury unlawful

because the Scriptures and the Saints say so

Moemers
10th June 2010, 05:26
it would help heaps if the unlawful practise of usury came to an abrupt end

why is usury unlawful

because the Scriptures and the Saints say so

Hmm. I feel like this is a dangerous assertion.

MargueriteBee
10th June 2010, 07:12
To me my money represents my labor/energy and when I get less and less for my money trade is unbalanced. I like barter because you can see it and trade fairly. The purpose of money is to intrap us and trick us into unbalanced energy exchange so they vampire us again.

Ross
10th June 2010, 07:17
Yes...hmmm...when they loaned me my mortgage, from money that doesnt exist...ya gotta laugh!

oh and when they bend you over they never seem to use lube...ouch!

sorry..back on topic

Peace

Luke
10th June 2010, 07:58
Question: Are those paper thingies "money" .. or maybe just a debt scripts.
As for value of real money, hear that:

"So you think that money is the root of all evil?" said Francisco d'Anconia. "Have you ever asked what is the root of money? Money is a tool of exchange, which can't exist unless there are goods produced and men able to produce them. Money is the material shape of the principle that men who wish to deal with one another must deal by trade and give value for value. Money is not the tool of the moochers, who claim your product by tears, or of the looters, who take it from you by force. Money is made possible only by the men who produce.
Is this what you consider evil?
"When you accept money in payment for your effort, you do so only on the conviction that you will exchange it for the product of the effort of others. It is not the moochers or the looters who give value to money. Not an ocean of tears nor all the guns in the world can transform those pieces of paper in your wallet into the bread you will need to survive tomorrow. Those pieces of paper, which should have been gold, are a token of honor—your claim upon the energy of the men who produce. Your wallet is your statement of hope that somewhere in the world around you there are men who will not default on that moral principle which is the root of money. Is this what you consider evil?
[...]
An honest man is one who knows that he can't consume more than he has produced.
"To trade by means of money is the code of the men of good will.
Money rests on the axiom that every man is the owner of his mind and his effort.
[...]common bond among men is not the exchange of suffering, but the exchange of goods.
Money demands that you sell, not your weakness to men's stupidity, but your talent to their reason; it demands that you buy, not the shoddiest they offer, but the best that your money can find. [...]
"But money is only a tool. It will take you wherever you wish, but it will not replace you as the driver. It will give you the means for the satisfaction of your desires, but it will not provide you with desires.
Money is the scourge of the men who attempt to reverse the law of causality—the men who seek to replace the mind by seizing the products of the mind.
[...]
"Money will always remain an effect and refuse to replace you as the cause. Money is the product of virtue, but it will not give you virtue and it will not redeem your vices. Money will not give you the unearned, neither in matter nor in spirit. Is this the root of your hatred of money?
[...]
"Let me give you a tip on a clue to men's characters: the man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it.
[...]
"Whenever destroyers appear among men, they start by destroying money, for money is men's protection and the base of a moral existence. Destroyers seize gold and leave to its owners a counterfeit pile of paper. This kills all objective standards and delivers men into the arbitrary power of an arbitrary setter of values. Gold was an objective value, an equivalent of wealth produced. Paper is a mortgage on wealth that does not exist, backed by a gun aimed at those who are expected to produce it. Paper is a check drawn by legal looters upon an account which is not theirs: upon the virtue of the victims. Watch for the day when it bounces, marked: 'Account overdrawn.'
[...]That phrase about the evil of money, which you mouth with such righteous recklessness, comes from a time when wealth was produced by the labor of slaves—slaves who repeated the motions once discovered by somebody's mind and left unimproved for centuries. So long as production was ruled by force, and wealth was obtained by conquest, there was little to conquer. Yet through all the centuries of stagnation and starvation, men exalted the looters, as aristocrats of the sword, as aristocrats of birth, as aristocrats of the bureau, and despised the producers, as slaves, as traders, as shopkeepers—as industrialists.
[...]
"Until and unless you discover that money is the root of all good, you ask for your own destruction. When money ceases to be the tool by which men deal with one another, then men become the tools of men. Blood, whips and guns—or dollars. Take your choice—there is no other—and your time is running out."
Full text in lenghty, but worth reading book by Ayn Rand (http://www.amazon.com/Atlas-Shrugged-Ayn-Rand/dp/0452011876/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1276156661&sr=1-1)

Connecting with Sauce
10th June 2010, 09:02
Listening to a few shows of "The real world of Money" HERE http://www.oneradionetwork.com/ SHOULD enable people to get a grip of what they are dealing with...

Yes money is evil in it's present "vampired" form with taxes and devaluing cycles etc, but knowing some info from that show will help you make a plan to lose less and hopefully remain solvent in these interesting times.

stardustaquarion
10th June 2010, 10:24
My personal perspective has always been that we are all born in this planet and therefore we are equally entitled to a share of the profits and a share of the responsibility. Things are the way they are because lack of self questioning. "being clever" in the sense of being sharp and "getting the best deal" has been promoted broadly in our society as the "done thing" "getting ahead" but they lack spiritual integrity. It is up to us individually to question what we do and why we do it, and to uphold kindness and responsibility towards humanity and the planet

No one will come to fix the mess for us and the mess is getting so bad that for the first time (me being normally optimistic, how silly :lol:) I am kind of accepting that we have reached the end of the road as humankind

777
10th June 2010, 11:15
Yes...hmmm...when they loaned me my mortgage, from money that doesnt exist...ya gotta laugh!

oh and when they bend you over they never seem to use lube...ouch!

sorry..back on topic

Peace

haha same here. Paper money is such a ludicrous system we feed into, it's value is actually nothing and we have en entire world economy based upon percieved value. None of the world's currencies are backed by a gold reserve any more........makes you wonder why we put up with it?!

Astar....I struggle to agree that paper money carries a karma with it. The only karma carried is that we haven't apologised for the tree that was cut down to provide you with aformentioned piece of paper. That piece of paper was made from a now dead tree. It was retrieved from a cash machine stuck in the wall of a corrupt bank, placed into the wallet of a presumeably imperfect person who probabl uses it to shoot coke up his nose before unrolling it and spending it at walmart on some non-free trade coffee to see him out his dark following morning. Now ALL of those actions carry a karma for the person performing them.

The cashier at walmart puts it in her till, the supervisor cashed up, the manager banks it back into another corrupt bank, whereupon another imperfect soul withdraws it from an atm. Are you telling me the entire actions of everyone in that chain are the accumulated guilt of the most recent user?!? Sorry can't buy (no pun intended!) that. The only guilt/karma for the most recent user is again, the paper and the fact that he knows this piece has probably touched un-righteous actions on it's journey.

Peace

RedeZra
10th June 2010, 13:03
it would help heaps if the unlawful practise of usury came to an abrupt end

why is usury unlawful

because the Scriptures and the Saints say so


Hmm. I feel like this is a dangerous assertion.

it's probably just an itch

try to scratch it

I say no usury and only metal coins

so we will loose the stock exchange

but it's just a fixed casino

and no Im not bartering the cow

Astar Of David
11th June 2010, 23:12
""Astar....I struggle to agree that paper money carries a karma with it"
It is not the paper money that carries the Karma it is the source of the money gained.
To take money from someone who is harming earth is to support his cause.
The fact that someone gets paid from his "crimes" is the reason he stays in business.
If you stop taking his money then you stop his reason to do the harm in the first place.

Imagine if there was a man as a "bum" on the street who was begging for money because of his situation.
Now Imagine that same man as a "criminal" who is pretending to be a "bum" to steal your money.
You see you can't always trust what you see. The money might have come from a lie. And supporting the lie keeps it alive no matter how you view it.
By paying the man who is a "Criminal bum" you support his cause and reason he is there.

Regardless of if the money itself has "karma" attached to it or not. The point is the source was funded by people who relate funds to cause of harming earth in the first place.

Related to our example:
Supporting the "criminal bum", just gives him the reason to be there again tomorrow.