How algorithms shape our world

[Muzz]

Kevin Slavin: How algorithms shape our world


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDaFwnOiKVE&feature=player_embedded

[ktlight]

Very interesting video, Muzz. Thanks for bringing it.

[Marsila]

Very good video, i think if anyone found this interesting they will find a lot of the work by Benoit Mandelbrot who passed away just last year mind blowing.

his book "the fractal geometry of nature" is what the "chaos theory" is based about, and what Kevin Slavin was summarizing here...anyway all real fascinating stuff, thanks Muzz!

[gaiagirl]

Thank you Muzz! That's just the type of thing I needed to get my brain jump-started today . . . very fascinating stuff . . . keep it coming!

[Ilie Pandia]

Wow... fascinating presentation.

I knew that traders are now "software operators" and they let the algorithms trade for them, but I had no idea it went this far!! Imagine an audit company trying to make sense of that data... any money being "siphoned" away with micro transactions in minutes... and let's be honest, the money don't disappear (as the presenter suggests). They disappear for our pension funds, yes, but they "appear" in other funds that we don't have access to. Oops... wrong meeting!

Another super cool piece of information was the software that determines what kind of movies will make money! So we get to see only the movies that will make big bucks to someone and not something that will raise our awareness or that will try to nudge us a bit... crazy stuff!

[WhiteFeather]

Cool stuff! Thanks OP

[Seikou-Kishi]

Another super cool piece of information was the software that determines what kind of movies will make money! So we get to see only the movies that will make big bucks to someone and not something that will raise our awareness or that will try to nudge us a bit... crazy stuff!

That's not entirely right. The software determines what kind of movies make money. If we as people decide we only want to see movies that raise our awareness or give us nudges, it stands to reason the software will adapt and tell them to start giving us that. While ever people want something that numbs their minds, that's what the software will suggest. It decides what will sell, but we decide on the values that make something saleable :-)

[toothpick]

Great thread Muzz.
Very interestng stuff.
The first time i had anything to do with algorithms that i knew about anyway,
was when i bought my son a Rubiks Cube for his birthday 20yrs ago and we had to use algorithms to solve the cube.
Lots of fun for sure.

toothpick

[Ilie Pandia]

Another super cool piece of information was the software that determines what kind of movies will make money! So we get to see only the movies that will make big bucks to someone and not something that will raise our awareness or that will try to nudge us a bit... crazy stuff!

That's not entirely right. The software determines what kind of movies make money. If we as people decide we only want to see movies that raise our awareness or give us nudges, it stands to reason the software will adapt and tell them to start giving us that. While ever people want something that numbs their minds, that's what the software will suggest. It decides what will sell, but we decide on the values that make something saleable :-)

Yes, Oliver, but is a bit of catch 22 here, is it not?

You can argue the same about the TV shows and news. We get what we ask for :biggrin:

If nobody would watch the news, or the "numbing down" shows they would have to change the program.

What I had in mind with the statement above was something like this:

Lets say a producer has a brilliant idea for a movie that will open the eyes of people to new possibilities, to new realities. So he writes the script, but he can't get any finance for it because it does not generate super profits. Of course you could argue that the general public was not ready for his movie yet.

And another thing that I find "out of place" is a software deciding culture based or profit margin. That seems wrong to me.... I wonder what score Socrates would have had :biggrin: ?

[ktlight]

algorithms are used a lot in music too

[Seikou-Kishi]

What I had in mind with the statement above was something like this:

Lets say a producer has a brilliant idea for a movie that will open the eyes of people to new possibilities, to new realities. So he writes the script, but he can't get any finance for it because it does not generate super profits. Of course you could argue that the general public was not ready for his movie yet.

And another thing that I find "out of place" is a software deciding culture based or profit margin. That seems wrong to me.... I wonder what score Socrates would have had :biggrin: ?

Yes that is a pretty big problem and we really have to just break the cycle. If we can't get them to make the awareness-raising films we want because at the moment they don't make any more, we could at least break the cycle of profitability for the numbing-down films first, then when the film producers are getting no money, they'd be more receptive to our ideas of what we want. (Also, numbing down is my new phrase :D). It's not very likely that people would turn away from such films in the numbers necessary to force their hand, but for some reason I'm ever the optimist :D

[Marsila]

Wow... fascinating presentation.

... any money being "siphoned" away with micro transactions in minutes... and let's be honest, the money don't disappear (as the presenter suggests). They disappear for our pension funds, yes, but they "appear" in other funds that we don't have access to. Oops... wrong meeting!


LOL that is true they rip us off, but not in that way.

Basically what this trade does, is make "money disappear" because lets say you own stocks that are valued at $7 each, and because of that split of a second trade, your stocks go down in value to $5 each, and lets say you own 100 of them...you now have $500 instead of $700 so you lost 200. that 200 disappeared, except in reality it never existed, unless you sold your stocks before that second. (sorry i couldn't resist)

chaos theory uses something called imaginary numbers (i), basically what is the square root of -1? which are numbers that don't exist except in our imagination, but which are needed to calculate so many of things from the different types of engineering, to economics, to social behavior. It is the calculations the people who built the pyramids knew about.

here's a nice link i found that has a calculation that can be applied to many things, and how the graphs shown sort of echo the mountain top in the video, as nature itself was the sources of these calculations.

http://csmres.jmu.edu/geollab/fichter/geobio350/x-next.pdf

[Ilie Pandia]

Yes, Marsila. I agree with your observation.

The "money value" of stock (just as the money value of everything) is really in our minds. In reality it does not exist. I like your example, it makes sense :). "Valued at $7" is not the same as actually holding the $7 in your hand :D

[Seikou-Kishi]

Yes, Marsila. I agree with your observation.

The "money value" of stock (just as the money value of everything) is really in our minds. In reality it does not exist. I like your example, it makes sense :). "Valued at $7" is not the same as actually holding the $7 in your hand :D

And holding $7 in your hand is another thing that doesn't really exist. Ooh, lovely bit of waxed paper. Money, you say? No, I see none of that.

[Marsila]

you are both right Ilie and Oliver it is a mind game. The title of this talk says it all "how algorithms shape our world" (thanks again Muzz)

what we call money only has value because we are told it is, and our ancestors for a long time thought so, so it is part of our inherited memory, otherwise the start of its value was out of someones imagination. it is just a paper, that we have associated a lot of power with.

something whole (integers) +bits and peices of that (fractions)+some things that must be exact(square roots)+a lot of imagination(negative square roots that have answers only in our mind or some parallel world)= the complex somewhat predictable nature of us and all things, including nature itself (complex numbers and what follows). or something like that....