J. Krishnamurti: Why don't you change?

[Anchor]

One of my favourites, J Krishnamurti, asking the tough question

"Why don't you change?"

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And a bonus video, one that I found both profound and funny...

"Holding on till the very end"
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[Teakai]

Good stuff, Anchor. I'm thinking it's because people don't realise that there is more to them than they are led to believe. Society by design attempts in all organised facets to keep mankind using only part of their brain - and so people think that's all there is and they don't even really think to look to change themselves, rather they look to change what's outside themselves.

Whole brain unity is what is required for inner change.

So, I'm thinking that one can't really force themselves to change, but they could practise achieving whole brain unity - beneficial change will be the natural outcome.

[ulli]

Good stuff, Anchor. I'm thinking it's because people don't realise that there is more to them than they are led to believe. Society by design attempts in all organised facets to keep mankind using only part of their brain - and so people think that's all there is and they don't even really think to look to change themselves, rather they look to change what's outside themselves.

Whole brain unity is what is required for inner change.

So, I'm thinking that one can't really force themselves to change, but they could practise achieving whole brain unity - beneficial change will be the natural outcome.

I once saw a bio feedback machine which had a monitor on which the activities of both hemispheres of the brain were displayed once a person was hooked up to it. That was in 1980... long time ago. When stimulating the person with words which triggered inner responses, such as the word "lemon", this would then show up as a movement on the screen.
When a person went into deep meditation the mind monitor showed symmetry, a sign that both brain hemispheres were balanced and getting close to the whole brain unity you mentioned.

The power is within each of us, that's just the way it is. And it can't be given to anyone, access to inner power is determined by the person's own efforts.

[ktlight]

Anchor, great that you bring K to the forum. I have tried many times to introduce him. There is certainly the need for his presence here. If PA members would only put in the effort to learn about thought, they would then understand how they are captured into TPTB traps so easily. They would then learn how to resist TPTB.

[Teakai]

I once saw a bio feedback machine which had a monitor on which the activities of both hemispheres of the brain were displayed once a person was hooked up to it. That was in 1980... long time ago. When stimulating the person with words which triggered inner responses, such as the word "lemon", this would then show up as a movement on the screen.
When a person went into deep meditation the mind monitor showed symmetry, a sign that both brain hemispheres were balanced and getting close to the whole brain unity you mentioned.

The power is within each of us, that's just the way it is. And it can't be given to anyone, access to inner power is determined by the person's own efforts.

Absolutely agree, Ulli - and I think it's safe to say that meditation is given not much a look in in Western society. When most people can fit in a minute they zone out in front of the TV and get a brainwashing fix - which is just keeping people in one hemisphere and plugged into the system. It's all such a distraction which keeps people looking outward.

Each individual needs to make their own choice to know themselves. It rests with them - and it's the only answer.

People desperately searching for answers and solutions while all the time they are the answer.
That's funny.
:)

[Teakai]

Anchor, great that you bring K to the forum. I have tried many times to introduce him. There is certainly the need for his presence here. If PA members would only put in the effort to learn about thought, they would then understand how they are captured into TPTB traps so easily. They would then learn how to resist TPTB.

Watched this brilliant video the other day which explains it all so well. This is just a 6 minute excerpt and I would totally recommend people watching the whole thing. The speaker is Mark Passio and the full talk is called something like Occult in the police and military.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sv0jv0dVwrg&feature=re%C2%ADlated

Enjoy.

[Anchor]

Anchor, great that you bring K to the forum. I have tried many times to introduce him. There is certainly the need for his presence here. If PA members would only put in the effort to learn about thought, they would then understand how they are captured into TPTB traps so easily. They would then learn how to resist TPTB.

It was my honor to give you your 10,000th thankyou for this post :)



Posts 3,596
Thanks 6,267
Thanked 10,000 times in 2,676 posts

LOL :)

[ktlight]

Anchor, great that you bring K to the forum. I have tried many times to introduce him. There is certainly the need for his presence here. If PA members would only put in the effort to learn about thought, they would then understand how they are captured into TPTB traps so easily. They would then learn how to resist TPTB.

It was my honor to give you your 10,000th thankyou for this post :)



Posts 3,596
Thanks 6,267
Thanked 10,000 times in 2,676 posts

LOL :)

Wow, Anchor, thank you so much. I have been privileged. Respect to you.

[Sophocles]

Here`s Krishnamurti at the U.N. in 1985 (part 5)... It could might as well have been today.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY3yxz1h2XA

[vibrations]

Krishnamurti was some kind of starter machine at least for me, his way of thinking is so pure, so simple and so logic it is really pleasure to hear ar read his words. And his lectures were always fun, he always found someone with a "classic" thinking pattern and then from this person point of view developed a new, much better less violent concept. Thank you Anchor.

[ktlight]

I found him quite difficult to understand. Only perseverance led me to finally getting it. K is the bees knees!!!!! View some of K/David Bohm videos about the nature of thought, as well. It's an education you cannot see on any Curriculum, freely given.

[Anchor]

Krishnamurti was some kind of starter machine at least for me, his way of thinking is so pure, so simple and so logic it is really pleasure to hear ar read his words. And his lectures were always fun, he always found someone with a "classic" thinking pattern and then from this person point of view developed a new, much better less violent concept. Thank you Anchor.

Krishnamurti and Ra (via LLResearch) are probably the biggest influencers of my path to date.

Here is a little from Ra, on thought, from the law of one work (this is a repeat, I've posted it before, but, IMHO, its so great, I want to, just this once, gratuitously repeat it :) )


Let us for a moment consider thought.

What is it, my friends, to take thought?

Took you then thought today?

What thoughts did you think today?

What thoughts were part of the original thought today?

In how many of your thoughts did the creation abide?

Was love contained?

And was service freely given?

You are not part of a material universe.

You are part of a thought.

You are dancing in a ballroom in which there is no material.

You are dancing thoughts.

You move your body, your mind, and your spirit in somewhat eccentric patterns for you have not completely grasped the concept that you are part of the original thought.

[ulli]

The insights I received after meeting J. Krishnamurti (12 hours before the unexpected news of my father's passing) led me to study the writings of Baha'u'llah, a 19th century Persian nobleman and poet, and founder of the Baha'i Faith:

"This is the realm of full awareness, of utter self-effacement. Even love is no pathway to this region, and longing hath no dwelling here; wherefore is it said, "Love is a veil betwixt the lover and the beloved." Here love becometh an obstruction and a barrier, and all else save Him is but a curtain.
For this is the realm of Absolute Command and is free of all the attributes of earth.

The exalted dwellers in this mansion do wield divine authority in the court of rapture, with utter gladness, and they do bear a kingly sceptre. On the high seats of justice, they issue their commands, and they send down gifts according to each man's deserving. Those who drink of this cup abide in the high bowers of splendor above the Throne of the Ancient of Days, and they sit in the Empyrean of Might within the Lofty Pavilion: "Naught shall they know of sun or piercing cold.

Concerning this realm, there is many a tradition and many a verse, of broad or special relevancy, but two of these will suffice to serve as a light for men of mind and heart.

The first is His statement: "O My Servant! Obey Me and I shall make thee like unto Myself. I say `Be,' and it is, and thou shalt say `Be,' and it shall be."

And the second: "O Son of Adam! Seek fellowship with none until thou hast found Me, and whenever thou shalt long for Me, thou shalt find Me close to thee."

-- Bahá'u'lláh, The Seven Valleys and the Four Valleys

[ktlight]

Jiddu Krishnamurti - Exploring the Essence of Love - Thought and Disorder (Ojai) (1982)

Krishnamurti is one of the most significant and profound thinker of the twentieth century. The world is full of 'spiritual' nonsense, and Krishnamurti speaks to us in a most intelligent, relevant and deeper way. This series of 6 talks, titled "Exploring the Essence of Love", was recorded in Ojai, California in 1982. If you are already familiar with Krishnamurti's work you won't be surprised by the quality of the content.

He asks "Is thought itself the source of disorder?" at around 12-ish minutes.

PrR1pxhPWso

[ovis]

Jiddu Krishnamurti - Exploring the Essence of Love - Thought and Disorder (Ojai) (1982)

Krishnamurti is one of the most significant and profound thinker of the twentieth century. The world is full of 'spiritual' nonsense, and Krishnamurti speaks to us in a most intelligent, relevant and deeper way. This series of 6 talks, titled "Exploring the Essence of Love", was recorded in Ojai, California in 1982. If you are already familiar with Krishnamurti's work you won't be surprised by the quality of the content.

He asks "Is thought itself the source of disorder?" at around 12-ish minutes.

PrR1pxhPWso




Any body that not only read this stuff but actually contemplate it will inevitably change his or hers conditioning. Live it and this will profoundly changes you in every way.

This made things more clear for me than what ever forum or presentation ever could.

He might not be a guru / teacher / leader but he certainly put together al the material to educate yourself

It you are serious about anything in life you should take at least note of a part of his work. !


Downloadable books:

http://www.messagefrommasters.com/Ebooks/Jiddu-Krishnamurti-Books.htm (http://www.messagefrommasters.com/Ebooks/Jiddu-Krishnamurti-Books.htm)


Lots of material:

http://www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net/ (http://www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net/)


Lots of Videos:

http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/default.php (http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/default.php)

[ovis]

Krishnamurti and Ra (via LLResearch) are probably the biggest influencers of my path to date.




I think JKM is far more down to earth ;-)

No seriously i read thought the whole Ra Material (The actual books)
but i have to say that the books of JKM made a magnitude more impact
on me that any other source that if have ever encountered.

I know there is no way to compare it and that it might even be stupid to do.

Its just how I felt it.

[greybeard]

It has all to do with frequency, spiritual energy, atoms in movement.
Every enlightened teacher will tell you the same thing as does KM
The words are the carrier of the energy of enlightenment.
The words may have some informational value but that is not the main thing.
Nasargadatta went as far as to say If you sleep with the book "I am That" under your pillow i will have the same effect as if you read it.

Its the interplay between the students genuine spiritual intention and the energy in the auric field and words of the Master.
If the "student" is ready for enlightenment then it occurs via Divine Grace.
The Self of the student is the same as the Self of teacher.
There is no duality.
Many will benefit from being in the presence of an enlightened master such as KM but few as yet are ready to receive the Grace of the Guru.
There are many seeming contradictions, the Master can not make enlightenment happen.
Enlightenment can happen without a master devotee relationship but it helps.
Eventually there is nothing to be known yet everything is known.
This young man explains it well.
Please go to the link.
Regards Chris

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?860-Enlightenment-The-Ego-what-is-it-How-to-transcend-it.&p=294203&viewfull=1#post294203

[ktlight]

Greybeard, Did you know that K would accept no labels. He would say, to hear anyone call him a guru, 'You didn't get it." I think of K as an educator of a high spirituality, intent on getting humanity to understand its conditioning and condition.

[greybeard]

Greybeard, Did you know that K would accept no labels. He would say, to hear anyone call him a guru, 'You didn't get it." I think of K as an educator of a high spirituality, intent on getting humanity to understand its conditioning and condition.

Oh yes that is true, it is us that invent the labels.
Enlightenment is a state--- there is no person to claim enlightenment.
As said the Self of the teacher is the same as the Self of the so called pupil-- its just linguistics, which are required in this world of seeming duality.

Regards Chris

[Teakai]

I found him quite difficult to understand. Only perseverance led me to finally getting it. K is the bees knees!!!!! View some of K/David Bohm videos about the nature of thought, as well. It's an education you cannot see on any Curriculum, freely given.

Hi KT, is that David Bohm the same man who was looking into the holographic universe theory?

[vibrations]

We all just thrill with what this man reveal to us. It's so nice to be among the people like you. Thank you for sharing so positive view, all of you.

And to honor a person as Krishnamurti is (just his body was not for use for him, he still is), I think, no statue, no label, the best will be if we practice this kind of life he was talking about. If we do it, we'll make him smile from the "Cloudy Bar" somewhere.

[Anchor]

One of my favorites is a speech JK made when dissolving the order of the star. I wrote a little intro, and its been fun seeing it re-posted on different forums, even this one ;)

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?12377-Krishnamurti-Truth-Is-A-Pathless-Land

[Teakai]

Another awakened guy saying the same thing:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arzxwTG8BmY&feature=feedf

I've heard some people saying David Icke is disinfo - but I don't know what part they think is the disinfo.
And when I ask they're unable to explain the reasoning to support their conclusion lol.

[gooty64]

I just found Krishnamurti this year and I am SO moved by him. Thank you for posting him on AF.
To me it feels like time to "bring it all home" meaning I need to prepare myself spiritually and develop the heart consciousness for the "shift'.

[Erich]

Why don't you change? I think you mean deep, fundamental change rather than small increments of change because people do change in small ways very slowly based on their experience, etc...But learning and changing aren't the same thing. Perhaps this reality is designed to offer constant catalyst for learning. There is no resting point where change is finally achieved.

[ovis]

Greybeard, Did you know that K would accept no labels. He would say, to hear anyone call him a guru, 'You didn't get it." I think of K as an educator of a high spirituality, intent on getting humanity to understand its conditioning and condition.

How bout you make your self the educator, blowing live in otherwise death words. Than bringer of the words becomes unimportant cause the material found live itself again.

[ktlight]

I found him quite difficult to understand. Only perseverance led me to finally getting it. K is the bees knees!!!!! View some of K/David Bohm videos about the nature of thought, as well. It's an education you cannot see on any Curriculum, freely given.

Hi KT, is that David Bohm the same man who was looking into the holographic universe theory?

Yes, Teakal, it is. He was discovering in quantum physics what K was already talking about and because of that they met. They had many many debates, the best for me was 'The Ending of Time'. I can put up a pdf file of that debate, if you wish.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Krishnamurti is (just his body was not for use for him, he still is)

vibrations, K is my best friend. I have seen him doubled over with laughter in my mind's eye. Such a compassionate soul.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Why don't you change? I think you mean deep, fundamental change rather than small increments of change because people do change in small ways very slowly based on their experience, etc...But learning and changing aren't the same thing. Perhaps this reality is designed to offer constant catalyst for learning. There is no resting point where change is finally achieved.

K said so often, it can be done in an instant, forever. I know this to be true.

[dendraw]

Thank you Anchor for this vid. and THANK YOU! J.K.!...is anyone else seeing Yoda incarnate here?!:wave: I LOVE this guy! I found this video and the timing for me VERY interesting, cause I've been putting this question to myself for the last couple of years. And also the quest for how to become a better person (which I see these two as linking together).....and my answer....I haven't a clue!!!:cry: I work for a non-profit that is founded on these ideas philosophically and there are a couple of volunteers that for me are the challenge of a lifetime! I remember one of the most helpful things I came across on this matter, was a documentary on these 3 or four convents and the nuns that ran them. What was conveyed was the humaness of all their stories and how they were not only challenged by the world outside the walls of the convent, but by each other as well. One of the best documentaries I've seen. All I see in myself is my ego fighting tooth and nail to stay intact. Well, tomorrow's another day! Wish me luck and thank you for indulging me...me me me!!!:laugh:

[ktlight]

dendraw,
the quest for how to become a better person (which I see these two as linking together).....and my answer....I haven't a clue!!!

Clues are in this thread. Pay attention to the videos and there is a high possibility that all will be revealed.

[meeradas]

Nasargadatta went as far as to say If you sleep with the book "I am That" under your pillow i will have the same effect as if you read it.

"Did it work?" :shocked:

[greybeard]

Nasargadatta went as far as to say If you sleep with the book "I am That" under your pillow i will have the same effect as if you read it.

"Did it work?" :shocked:

Seemed to for some--- there are videos on u tube-- claiming it did.

KM in one lecture said--- " Do you want to know my secret? Of course the audience did, he responded. " I dont mind"
Some got it.
Same as the Buddha and the flower, same as silent transmission of Ramana,
You have to go beyond words--- the words are for the intellect.
Enlightenment is that which can not be spoken of, The moment it is voiced it becomes a concept.
Ramana said Use the thorn to remove the thorn then throw both away
So the intellect is used to remove the egoic mind through self inquiry--- being aware of self agenda etc.
being the witness observer -- then all becomes clear-- you are not the doer. (Advaita)
A simple way is to make and keep the spiritual intention " Be kind to all life including your own no matter what"
That is the advice of Dr David Hawkins a mystic of this era.
The energy of enlightenment is the same era to era.
Just find a teacher that you relate to - KM does for many of intellect but be clear the intellect must be surrendered finally.
KM did not know what "teaching" was going to come through his lips it just happened.
Chris

[ovis]

I found him quite difficult to understand. Only perseverance led me to finally getting it. K is the bees knees!!!!! View some of K/David Bohm videos about the nature of thought, as well. It's an education you cannot see on any Curriculum, freely given.

Hi KT, is that David Bohm the same man who was looking into the holographic universe theory?

Its here for free:

http://www.messagefrommasters.com/Ebooks/Jiddu-Krishnamurti-Books/The_Ending_Of_Time.pdf


By the way, its on my stack next to my bed waiting to be read.

Yea I am a bit of an old fashion guy supporting the local bookshops :-)

[Teakai]

Yes, Teakal, it is. He was discovering in quantum physics what K was already talking about and because of that they met. They had many many debates, the best for me was 'The Ending of Time'. I can put up a pdf file of that debate, if you wish.

That would be great, KT - thanks. I look forward to reading it.

Edit to add - I just noticed Ovis has put up a link - only I'm getting a request to open something I don't really want to open if there's another way around it.

[ovis]

Yes, Teakal, it is. He was discovering in quantum physics what K was already talking about and because of that they met. They had many many debates, the best for me was 'The Ending of Time'. I can put up a pdf file of that debate, if you wish.

That would be great, KT - thanks. I look forward to reading it.

Edit to add - I just noticed Ovis has put up a link - only I'm getting a request to open something I don't really want to open if there's another way around it.



Its basically a direct link to a pdf (The Ebook)