The Abrahamic God is a Total Psychopath and a Disgrace to Humanity

[Omni]

Of course these are just my views and I'm not saying every christian, Muslim, or Jewish person(the religion) is an idiot, or somehow bad. We all hold varying delusions IMHO.

Anyway in setting up this discussion so it does not result in flames(or trying to prevent them) I will say this:

"We are not our opinions or beliefs, we just hold them." Differing in opinions should not be so offensive optimally. After all, they do not define us as human beings. I am only pointing out my subjective views here, and wouldn't care so much if they did not distort reality and create wars etc. I just feel this topic should be spoken of.

These are some of my views on Abrahamic religions(mainly Christianity and Islam).

I'll start with words of wisdom from Jake, a mod here:


God is an angry god; god is a judgmental god, god is a jealous god, god is a spiteful god, god is a vengeful god, ,,, (Jesus taught that these things were[are] sinful)

This is why I will not worship the 'god' that is presented in the bible,,, I'm not sure i would even let someone like this in my house.

I totally agree!! I would not let this being into my house either!!

Now with some of my own words.

Supposedly there is a system of punishment/reward with the all knowing creator of everything. And in a short, tiny lifetime full of confusions and illusions and conflicting information everywhere and TONS of Satan and his demons around causing a mess, we will be judged and sent to a never ending heaven or hell. This isn't even as an act of karma, or even based on deserving anything like that, but really who really deserves to suffer forever...... The most loving, bright, altruistic, helper of the world can be cast to suffer for an eternity, just for not believing in Jesus being their overlord. If that is not the ultimate fear monger to gather followers for a cult I don't know what is.

If someone came along today and said you had to believe in their cult and accept their prophet as your lord, or you will suffer forEVER after you die, we'd all practically see it as total garbage and total manipulation.

There is another cult that exists nowadays that uses the same tactics. Ashayana Deane(sp) and Keylontic sciences(respectively to her, I do not think she is stupid just manipulated personally). Cults have been doing this forever, and they are a shame and hazard to mankind. Is Ashayana Deane's cult following, fallen angels are everywhere poisoning us and implanting us, and ONLY her, can save you, but you have to pay her thousands of dollars to be saved :cool: All the old methods you paid for in this cult, become outdated and no longer work! You have to buy the new ones!!!! The cults on this planet are PLAGUES imo! (no disrespect to the people who follow Ashayana(ap).

Is there a more clear tactic to maintain your followers then to say if you do not believe it you will suffer forever? I've seen plenty of people say they have thought a lot about ditching Christianity but due to not wanting to go to hell, just to be safe they will stick to it. What I say to that? If God is anywhere near enlightened, he'll understand...

To be clear I think Jesus(that wasn't his name, there was no J back then..........) may have been quite a helluva guy. I relate with him because I have been persecuted in ways similar to anyone bringing truth to the world in a way that is new is. I'm not saying I'm anywhere near the same level as him, or saying I'm a prophet. But I do walk a similar path to what I think he did if he existed and presented the truth to humans(NOT the bible) in terms of ridicule, attacks, and in general lack of decency in humans who react indecently to my claims.

Humans + Truth = Bad combination sometimes.

If Jesus wanted to start a religion I think he would have...

Also to be clear, I am not dissing the idea of God existing. And I respect Christians, Muslims, and Jewish people as human beings. They can be stupid, or brilliant just like anyone else.

What I am saying, is for the God to be real that the bible and other sources say, he/she/it would have to be the biggest psychopath/sociopath possible(quite literally the biggest POSSIBLE), and the biggest monolithic source of suffering that is beyond the imaginations of us by a practically infinite amount. What Hitler did is childsplay compared to this God... Creating a practically infinite amount of suffering does not go well by me(not conting just creating the universe as it's fine in that case).

To send a humble and caring individual to a never ending hellfire of suffering just for not believing in you when they had absolutely no solid evidence you exist because you didn't provide it at all(for faith is why they say that is lol), is psychopathic. And on levels far beyond any psychopath I've ever seen on earth.

While this humble and kind person suffers for eternity, murderers and rapists who believe in Jesus get a free pass to heaven!!! So basically a guy like the Dalai Lama, kind, caring, intelligent, altruistic, and wise = hell.

"My religion is very simple. My religion is kindness."
- The Dalai Lama

A guy like Hitler(theoretically that bad, as supposedly suicide gets you hellfire or something)? He could convert to Jesus before he died, and get to goto heaven and kick it with the people he had executed.


In Islam martyrs get like 72 virgins!!! So basically in that religion God has made countless women sex slaves. Forcing 72 women to have sex with a man however many times is psychopathic, to a large degree. If a human did that on earth in any reasonable society with the more reasonable laws it has, they would be sentenced to prison. So basically in Islam God is the biggest pimp in existence.

Supposedly God made 2 humans. Adam and Eve(which may very well hold very significant metaphorical meaning). Now my understanding of this part is iffy as I am no extreme bible scholar. But so we were given paradise, but told not to eat apples(how ABSURD). And for eating an apple, man was given original sin??? Or did Adam and Eve have it already?

If God is all knowing, he would know how he made Adam's soul and character, to be too curious, or too uncontrollable or couldn't follow orders, that he will eat that apple. Free will doesn't mean you are not predictable in what your traits are. No Christian says God doesn't know things. they say he is all knowing. So he dam well knows Adam is going to eat that apple. :doh: He's just watching constantly waiting for it to happen as if he's watching a screwy reality TV show.

IMO it really is a disgrace to humanity that people believe for one man eating an apple, a whole world was cast into this confused, dysfunctional, undeveloped, prison planet and are sinners.

Adding more to the psychopathy, God made a son. But as a supposedly loving God, he makes this son go to planet earth and get persecuted, ostracized, ridiculed, severely tortured, and die..... To "save us", when he could have just saved us without that ridiculous event. This is on the level of Manson or Hostel(the movie) type behavior........ It gets worse....

How about this angle. The universe is HUGGGGGGGGGGE. Too big for any of our imaginations to imagine even remotely 0.0000000001% of it... We can't even imagine what an apple is in full. We can't even imagine what a PEA is in full or a drop of water. Anyway my point here is, there have got to be trillions of planets with this concept of 'sinners'. So basically in this model if consistent, Jesus would be cast down to every planet that has original sin, to get tortured and die for each planet to save them, when God could just save them without any torturing and dying by his "son". Is this not one of the most deranged and distorted things you have ever heard(well maybe not): Creating a son and making him get tortured and die on trillions+ of planets, trillions of times over and over? That sounds like being cast down to hell to me. That sounds like suffering for en eternity to me.

This is absolutely psychopathy on levels no human can dream of doing.

Throw in how dysfunctional and crazy humanity is, so his creations, as far as we know if not using any logic or thought of other worlds, his creations are chaotic, disease infested, injustice filled, corrupted in many ways balls flying through space filled with beings so confused no one of them understands reality the same way....

This quote rings a bell to me but I can see how some would see it as wrong, and I can see ways it's wrong. But it does strike a chord with me regardless and exemplifies my point I just made quite nicely:

"I don't know if God exists, but it would be better for His reputation if He didn't." ~Jules Renard

Let Jesus's name be a telltale sign maybe... The name Jesus is impossible to exist back then. There was no J back then. They couldn't even get his name right, do you really trust them to get his teachings right????? That right there is solid evidence the whole thing is a sham, after all, they can't even tell you his name! I think they made his name Jesus to mathematically align with the name Satan. Jesus is like Santa IMO. Something you are told since a child, and since you had no discernment, and fully trusted your parents, you believed it until other people told you it wasn't real(maybe) and you asked your parents and they finally said he doesn't exist. We live in a total dreamworld!!!! Jesus = Santa except never told he's not real. Interesting if you change a couple letters around and Santa becomes Satan. Just a random fact...

It's no coincidence that if you are born in different parts of the world, your religion is predictable. People are brainwashed since birth to accept these lies! It's obvious brainwashing is involved to anyone.......... So basically God sends people to hell for being born in the wrong area of the world... Really? How is that not a total psychopath?

Anyway, I have not yet looked into many eastern religions much, but I hear of one that is infinitely wiser than anything I've heard in the bible, because all the wise stuff in the bible I knew in my heart anyway. This is, that part of living on earth and being a human, is becoming disillusioned, that is part of our development. I suggest Abrahamic religion are huge illusions humanity will have to overcome...

I predict Taoism, and Buddhism will far outlive Christianity, Islam, and Judaism by many thousands of percents.... Just a random prediction if this is read in a few thousand years after science has irrefutably shown this stuff as false.



There are a billion times more illusions than truths. There is only one way to be right(with non subjective things), there are TONS of ways to be wrong... If you see how many different views there are, we have way more illusions in our beliefs than not in areas unproven. So this is absolute wisdom. Why is it not in the bible? God didn't think it's worthwhile???

Also, the east(not counting Islam), is not so opposed to ETs. Like for example the Dalai Lama says there are 3 types of beings in the universe.

Basically us, physical incarnated beings.
Inter-dimensional beings with energetic bodies(maybe orbs?).
And Simply consciousnesses that roam around(if i interpreted him right, I may not have).

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the delusions of grandeur of religion. I am not saying the bible is useless. However I simply reject that the creator of all things is a ridiculously HUGE psychopath, that if he lived on earth and carried the same traits would end up being executed for his psychopathic traits.

Hitler is a carebear compared to the Christian and Muslim God! And nobody can deny that reasonably!!!!

Note: I have not looked into Judaism too much, so forgive me if that preaching does not show a psychopath. I bet it does though

[GCS1103]

Of course these are just my views and I'm not saying every christian, Muslim, or Jewish person(the religion) is an idiot, or somehow bad. We all hold varying delusions IMHO.

Anyway in setting up this discussion so it does not result in flames(or trying to prevent them) I will say this:

"We are not our opinions or beliefs, we just hold them." Differing in opinions should not be so offensive optimally. After all, they do not define us as human beings. I am only pointing out my subjective views here, and wouldn't care so much if they did not distort reality and create wars etc. I just feel this topic should be spoken of.

These are some of my views on Abrahamic religions(mainly Christianity and Islam).

I'll start with words of wisdom from Jake, a mod here:


God is an angry god; god is a judgmental god, god is a jealous god, god is a spiteful god, god is a vengeful god, ,,, (Jesus taught that these things were[are] sinful)

This is why I will not worship the 'god' that is presented in the bible,,, I'm not sure i would even let someone like this in my house.

I totally agree!! I would not let this being into my house either!!

Now with some of my own words.

Supposedly there is a system of punishment/reward with the all knowing creator of everything. And in a short, tiny lifetime full of confusions and illusions and conflicting information everywhere and TONS of Satan and his demons around causing a mess, we will be judged and sent to a never ending heaven or hell. This isn't even as an act of karma, or even based on deserving anything like that, but really who really deserves to suffer forever...... The most loving, bright, altruistic, helper of the world can be cast to suffer for an eternity, just for not believing in Jesus being their overlord. If that is not the ultimate fear monger to gather followers for a cult I don't know what is.

If someone came along today and said you had to believe in their cult and accept their prophet as your lord, or you will suffer forEVER after you die, we'd all practically see it as total garbage and total manipulation.

There is another cult that exists nowadays that uses the same tactics. Ashayana Deane(sp) and Keylontic sciences(respectively to her, I do not think she is stupid just manipulated personally). Cults have been doing this forever, and they are a shame and hazard to mankind. Is Ashayana Deane's cult following, fallen angels are everywhere poisoning us and implanting us, and ONLY her, can save you, but you have to pay her thousands of dollars to be saved :cool: All the old methods you paid for in this cult, become outdated and no longer work! You have to buy the new ones!!!! The cults on this planet are PLAGUES imo! (no disrespect to the people who follow Ashayana(ap).

Is there a more clear tactic to maintain your followers then to say if you do not believe it you will suffer forever? I've seen plenty of people say they have thought a lot about ditching Christianity but due to not wanting to go to hell, just to be safe they will stick to it. What I say to that? If God is anywhere near enlightened, he'll understand...

To be clear I think Jesus(that wasn't his name, there was no J back then..........) may have been quite a helluva guy. I relate with him because I have been persecuted in ways similar to anyone bringing truth to the world in a way that is new is. I'm not saying I'm anywhere near the same level as him, or saying I'm a prophet. But I do walk a similar path to what I think he did if he existed and presented the truth to humans(NOT the bible) in terms of ridicule, attacks, and in general lack of decency in humans who react indecently to my claims.

Humans + Truth = Bad combination sometimes.

If Jesus wanted to start a religion I think he would have...

Also to be clear, I am not dissing the idea of God existing. And I respect Christians, Muslims, and Jewish people as human beings. They can be stupid, or brilliant just like anyone else.

What I am saying, is for the God to be real that the bible and other sources say, he/she/it would have to be the biggest psychopath/sociopath possible(quite literally the biggest POSSIBLE), and the biggest monolithic source of suffering that is beyond the imaginations of us by a practically infinite amount. What Hitler did is childsplay compared to this God... Creating a practically infinite amount of suffering does not go well by me(not conting just creating the universe as it's fine in that case).

To send a humble and caring individual to a never ending hellfire of suffering just for not believing in you when they had absolutely no solid evidence you exist because you didn't provide it at all(for faith is why they say that is lol), is psychopathic. And on levels far beyond any psychopath I've ever seen on earth.

While this humble and kind person suffers for eternity, murderers and rapists who believe in Jesus get a free pass to heaven!!! So basically a guy like the Dalai Lama, kind, caring, intelligent, altruistic, and wise = hell.

"My religion is very simple. My religion is kindness."
- The Dalai Lama

A guy like Hitler(theoretically that bad, as supposedly suicide gets you hellfire or something)? He could convert to Jesus before he died, and get to goto heaven and kick it with the people he had executed.


In Islam martyrs get like 72 virgins!!! So basically in that religion God has made countless women sex slaves. Forcing 72 women to have sex with a man however many times is psychopathic, to a large degree. If a human did that on earth in any reasonable society with the more reasonable laws it has, they would be sentenced to prison. So basically in Islam God is the biggest pimp in existence.

Supposedly God made 2 humans. Adam and Eve(which may very well hold very significant metaphorical meaning). Now my understanding of this part is iffy as I am no extreme bible scholar. But so we were given paradise, but told not to eat apples(how ABSURD). And for eating an apple, man was given original sin??? Or did Adam and Eve have it already?

If God is all knowing, he would know how he made Adam's soul and character, to be too curious, or too uncontrollable or couldn't follow orders, that he will eat that apple. Free will doesn't mean you are not predictable in what your traits are. No Christian says God doesn't know things. they say he is all knowing. So he dam well knows Adam is going to eat that apple. :doh: He's just watching constantly waiting for it to happen as if he's watching a screwy reality TV show.

IMO it really is a disgrace to humanity that people believe for one man eating an apple, a whole world was cast into this confused, dysfunctional, undeveloped, prison planet and are sinners.

Adding more to the psychopathy, God made a son. But as a supposedly loving God, he makes this son go to planet earth and get persecuted, ostracized, ridiculed, severely tortured, and die..... To "save us", when he could have just saved us without that ridiculous event. This is on the level of Manson or Hostel(the movie) type behavior........ It gets worse....

How about this angle. The universe is HUGGGGGGGGGGE. Too big for any of our imaginations to imagine even remotely 0.0000000001% of it... We can't even imagine what an apple is in full. We can't even imagine what a PEA is in full or a drop of water. Anyway my point here is, there have got to be trillions of planets with this concept of 'sinners'. So basically in this model if consistent, Jesus would be cast down to every planet that has original sin, to get tortured and die for each planet to save them, when God could just save them without any torturing and dying by his "son". Is this not one of the most deranged and distorted things you have ever heard(well maybe not): Creating a son and making him get tortured and die on trillions+ of planets, trillions of times over and over? That sounds like being cast down to hell to me. That sounds like suffering for en eternity to me.

This is absolutely psychopathy on levels no human can dream of doing.

Throw in how dysfunctional and crazy humanity is, so his creations, as far as we know if not using any logic or thought of other worlds, his creations are chaotic, disease infested, injustice filled, corrupted in many ways balls flying through space filled with beings so confused no one of them understands reality the same way....

This quote rings a bell to me but I can see how some would see it as wrong, and I can see ways it's wrong. But it does strike a chord with me regardless and exemplifies my point I just made quite nicely:

"I don't know if God exists, but it would be better for His reputation if He didn't." ~Jules Renard

Let Jesus's name be a telltale sign maybe... The name Jesus is impossible to exist back then. There was no J back then. They couldn't even get his name right, do you really trust them to get his teachings right????? That right there is solid evidence the whole thing is a sham, after all, they can't even tell you his name! I think they made his name Jesus to mathematically align with the name Satan. Jesus is like Santa IMO. Something you are told since a child, and since you had no discernment, and fully trusted your parents, you believed it until other people told you it wasn't real(maybe) and you asked your parents and they finally said he doesn't exist. We live in a total dreamworld!!!! Jesus = Santa except never told he's not real. Interesting if you change a couple letters around and Santa becomes Satan. Just a random fact...

It's no coincidence that if you are born in different parts of the world, your religion is predictable. People are brainwashed since birth to accept these lies! It's obvious brainwashing is involved to anyone.......... So basically God sends people to hell for being born in the wrong area of the world... Really? How is that not a total psychopath?

Anyway, I have not yet looked into many eastern religions much, but I hear of one that is infinitely wiser than anything I've heard in the bible, because all the wise stuff in the bible I knew in my heart anyway. This is, that part of living on earth and being a human, is becoming disillusioned, that is part of our development. I suggest Abrahamic religion are huge illusions humanity will have to overcome...

I predict Taoism, and Buddhism will far outlive Christianity, Islam, and Judaism by many thousands of percents.... Just a random prediction if this is read in a few thousand years after science has irrefutably shown this stuff as false.



There are a billion times more illusions than truths. There is only one way to be right(with non subjective things), there are TONS of ways to be wrong... If you see how many different views there are, we have way more illusions in our beliefs than not in areas unproven. So this is absolute wisdom. Why is it not in the bible? God didn't think it's worthwhile???

Also, the east(not counting Islam), is not so opposed to ETs. Like for example the Dalai Lama says there are 3 types of beings in the universe.

Basically us, physical incarnated beings.
Inter-dimensional beings with energetic bodies(maybe orbs?).
And Simply consciousnesses that roam around(if i interpreted him right, I may not have).

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the delusions of grandeur of religion. I am not saying the bible is useless. However I simply reject that the creator of all things is a ridiculously HUGE psychopath, that if he lived on earth and carried the same traits would end up being executed for his psychopathic traits.

Hitler is a carebear compared to the Christian and Muslim God! And nobody can deny that reasonably!!!!

Note: I have not looked into Judaism too much, so forgive me if that preaching does not show a psychopath. I bet it does though

Omniverse- Your thread is very interesting. Although I don't agree with your beliefs, we can have a rational dialogue about our differences. For me, although I am not a very religious person who goes to church often, I have a comfort in my belief that Jesus does indeed exist. I am comforted by him when I am going through a sad time in my life and need someone to talk to. Because of my belief in him, I try very hard not to do something that I know is wrong or unkind. Being human I am not always successful, but I know that I think twice because of Him.

I always asked the question you have in your post about why would a kind God allow such human misery and suffering. The answer I was taught, and what I do believe, is that this planet is run by another, truly evil entity. You can call him the Prince of Darkness, Satan, Reptilian, or whatever you want, but it is this entity, in my belief system, who rules over earth. The one thing that I know for sure is that none of us can say with certainty what the truth is at this point.

[vibrations]

I like your breakdown Omni, it reminds me when I have one of my conferences I always express my point of view over the bible. A CD with a music from several decades put together by someone as his taste. And then reassembled over and over again.

This "god" you talk about, is there because the story fitted in a concept the religious "fathers" wanted to run their business.

As I know it's a story of some ET guys who took advantage over simple people frighten them with their high tech and making jokes with them. I also hear a very similar story about so called Sataan, the ET commander who abused his power and instead of helping to establish society emerging around Euphrates and Tigris, he enslaved them and punished them with nuclear weapons around 20.000 years ago. So this stories little by little converted some of the ET's to gods and some of them to devil. And I was told, that this people were rely punished for what they done here in the earth.

And then, today after such an amount of time there are still people who believe this.
And why.
The religion is a stick for the man who does not know to walk by himself, so he need something some real estate agent to tell him what to do.
But I think, for everyone the moment comes when he can walk on his own.

[Jake]

Omniverse- Your thread is very interesting. Although I don't agree with your beliefs, we can have a rational dialogue about our differences. For me, although I am not a very religious person who goes to church often, I have a comfort in my belief that Jesus does indeed exist. I am comforted by him when I am going through a sad time in my life and need someone to talk to. Because of my belief in him, I try very hard not to do something that I know is wrong or unkind. Being human I am not always successful, but I know that I think twice because of Him.

I always asked the question you have in your post about why would a kind God allow such human misery and suffering. The answer I was taught, and what I do believe, is that this planet is run by another, truly evil entity. You can call him the Prince of Darkness, Satan, Reptilian, or whatever you want, but it is this entity, in my belief system, who rules over earth. The one thing that I know for sure is that none of us can say with certainty what the truth is at this point.

In my own opinion, invoking the name of Jesus, is a personal technique for you, that triggers your OWN power. It has never worked for me, yet I have never believed in Jesus as a savior or middle man between me and God. What HAS worked for me is standing in my own power and demanding to take my OWN place in the structure that exists. I don't feel that either way is better than the other, except in the case where one insists on projecting their beliefs on another. tsk tsk tsk tsk...

It makes sense to me that GOD, would have given the gift of life to each and every point of consciousness, and the rest is being created by US. God does not allow misery to happen,,, it happens inside of US AND,,, we created it. God can create the realities that we reside in, but he needs us to experience them for him. He gives the gift of life,,, we bring back the gift of the experience of the creation. The 'devil' or 'satan' or 'the reptilians' have not had to work very hard to destroy our world,,, just leave us to our own devices and we will do that on our own. WE have created our world,,, not God. I am sure that there is a creative force out there that is completely saddened by what it is seeing here. But he is also in a state of amazement and awe at what we can accomplish and what our potentials are. Any angry god is not MY god. I will NOT worship any physical manifestation of a god figure.

We have to do this ourselves. Before the council of Nacia in AD325,, nobody worshiped Jesus. The ptb at the time, CREATED the DIVINE Jesus as a way to get back the controls that they had when people WORSHIPED a god figure. Jesus taught that the kingdom of God is within you. All of the best books were taken out of the equation, and we were left with nothing more than confusion.

In my opinion,,, if you WORSHIP anything,,, you should worship the burning god that is within you,, AND THAT IS IT!

Jesus would agree,,, so would Alex Collier,,, So would Buddha,,, So do I,,,

The worship of a single, one world, God-figure,, only serves to strip us of our own power and deliver it unto those who would seek to deceive us. God does NOT need to be glorified. or worshiped. or exalted above all others. These are all devisive approaches that only keep us shackled to the old way of things. :)

[Omni]

Omniverse- Your thread is very interesting. Although I don't agree with your beliefs, we can have a rational dialogue about our differences. For me, although I am not a very religious person who goes to church often, I have a comfort in my belief that Jesus does indeed exist. I am comforted by him when I am going through a sad time in my life and need someone to talk to. Because of my belief in him, I try very hard not to do something that I know is wrong or unkind. Being human I am not always successful, but I know that I think twice because of Him.

I always asked the question you have in your post about why would a kind God allow such human misery and suffering. The answer I was taught, and what I do believe, is that this planet is run by another, truly evil entity. You can call him the Prince of Darkness, Satan, Reptilian, or whatever you want, but it is this entity, in my belief system, who rules over earth. The one thing that I know for sure is that none of us can say with certainty what the truth is at this point.

I respect your beliefs. But my interpretation of your perception is you have the basic structure right, but the details/context wrong(not saying this as disrespect, just my opinion). What you perceive as Jesus, is a force that takes the role of any belief programming of what you identify it as IMHO. Mohammed is there for people too. And these religions are based around these structures of the universe and human programing to exploit the very real dynamics that take place once these illusions of context are believed.

I am with you that some massive evil force is here. But that is only possible due to the levels of confusion and unenlightened behavior IMHO. And it is all more based on the dynamics of nature and early evolution than any evil godlike force IMHO. Look at lions and gazelles. It's ruthless, nature. The ruthlessness can be explained by a model that needs no moderating or admins controlling it to be a self sustaining beautifully complex kaliedascope of diversity. A self sustaining universe that may be cyclical connected to other universes with mechanics of black holes and dark matter etc. So basically my interpretation in part of being a barely evolved race like ourselves is ascending the brutality, injustice, delusions, and general seeming chaos of nature(which is firmly based on order), and becoming more potent hands of God as we become more worthy of such.

I see Christianity and Islam as major hurdles for humanity with all due respect. As long as we think God is a violent mass murderer, and each other are infidels and doomed to hell and God wants others who do not believe the same thing to suffer etc, were doomed to having no excuse but to be the same if we are lost individuals. (not saying you are lost at all)

I strongly resonate with what I've heard of Eastern religions. Taoism and Buddhism.

I can respect your beliefs. Jesus may be some energetic enlightened aspect. But I doubt that. As I said I believe what you experience is based on very real universal or genetic structures that were manipulated and exploited, and put with devolutionary other stuff, like the idea of sending kind and respectful beings to hell, etc.

[The One]

I found this an intersting documentary on the history of god.I dont beleive in a god but still a good watch

Based on Karen Armstrong’s acclaimed book, this feature-length film guides viewers along one of humanity’s most elusive quests.

For over 4,000 years, adherents of the world’s monotheistic faiths have wrestled with the question of God. This extraordinary, feature-length film, based on Karen Armstrong’s acclaimed book of the same name, traces that elusive and fascinating quest.

A History of God examines the familiar images of deity as presented in the Bible and Koran and traces the evolution and interrelation of the various Christian, Jewish, and Islamic interpretations of the divine figure. Through balanced analysis of historic and holy texts and extensive use of ancient art and artifacts, we’ll follow the long road to today’s understanding of God and what the journey–and the destination–have to tell us about humanity and its never-ending search for meaning and comfort.

From the time of Abraham to the present, this is a thought-provoking look at the God at the heart of the world’s three great monotheistic religions


-206887275399093528

[Orion.V]

That's a nice analysis Omni and i've been arguing with many people about these god characteristics that seem psychopathic, unfair, unnatural and it defies it's own logic that if god is love and light then how can he invent a never ending suffering hell and the complete arrogance here is that a being's soul is supposed to be JUDGED only by the actions of only ONE lifetime on earth. Not even giving a chance for this soul to try again ???? You will burn in HELL ... but remember ... he LOVES YOU :D Super LOL !!!!

Anyway there is a general and huge misconception and misunderstanding that comes from the bible itself and then from the christian cults and sects like the catholic church who have best interest in fear porn, aside from the orthodox church that is like a complete opposite from the catholic fear porn and crap. BUT lets put that aside. Have you ever considered that this life here on earth is that hell, and you will be in that hell until you evolve or attain higher level of consciousness or the so called " Christ consciousness " ??? Maybe it's just about that ....

Second, about the name Jesus. No that's not how it sounded but there was no J in his name ever because you can not pronounce the name correctly by using the English language. Iesous / Yehosua would be the names in Greek and Hebrew that would sound more genuine but it doesnt matter because the name Christ relates to Christ consciousness and not an actual name.

So all those murderers and rapists don't get their sins washed away by accepting or believing in Jesus. That was never the case. It's actually all those who understand their mistakes and those who will feel repentance and self forgiveness are the ones who actually made progress towards attaining Christ consciousness in future ..... in some distant incarnation ...

Thirdly the bible is one book that has been written in a strong symbolic language and even thou it has a lot of truths inside the major problem is when people take it too literally or when they make their own interpretations of what they feel most fitting for the truth to be. A lot of this nonsense is a product of misunderstanding and wrong interpretations. One day i asked my orthodox friend the question : " So you are christian by religion right? " His reply as shocking it was : - " No, it's not a religion, it's a way of living "
I was a bit puzzled but then i understood what he meant and we continued talking about many things including god. At my next surprise was that he understood god as a consciousness and that everything that is and the reality is based on thought and the thought has energy .... Now this coming from a christian like him is quite something :))

Anyway my point in all this is that everything is a point of view especially when it comes to religions ... It's not like it's defined in stone, it's just different groups have different perception and you would be amazed how much these groups can be so different and yet belonging to the same religion.

Regards,
Orion

[Omni]

I don't feel that either way is better than the other, except in the case where one insists on projecting their beliefs on another. tsk tsk tsk tsk...
If the tsking was directed at me I don't try to convert people to my universal reality. After I don't have a complete one that is unchanging(AKA stagnant).

And I disagree that all belief systems are the same. That may be the case with Avalonians because most if not all who believe in Jesus Mohammed etc here are enlightened enough to be able to not act psychopathic, as God is projected as in the bible and quran.

Religions that propagate injustice, and the illusion that it's ok to kill torture and maim people who don't believe the same thing as you are inferior belief systems and should be systematically eliminated. Not eliminated by me so much, but by reason.

Most christians who are enlightened don't buy the hell thing, and just selectively take what they align with from the bible, and disregard what they do not. However in some ways I respect the hardcore baptist christians I met, who said god is racist, god is hateful, spiteful, vengeful, sent demons to torture me, the sun is 500 miles away, the earth is the only planet with life on it in the universe, and a score of other ridiculous things(you can see my posts there here: The Most ridiculous group of people on a forum on the planet (interesting psychology lesson but brutal for hope in mankind (http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=59757&highlight=omniverse). However the ridiculous was not so much in that thread. but look no further to my title for that. "unsaved trash". lol. and my icons, perv etcetcetc

Or here: my other thread before i was banned lol: My favorite verse in the bible thread lol (http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=60017&highlight=omniverse)

These people have such a distorted crazy view of things.... And that is why I think the bible is equivalent to blasphemy to me. I have more respect in some areas for these people than selective christians(not summed up in full as more respect, as i have infinitely more respect for avalon christians than those baptists but more respect on one area) because they actually quite thoroughly and fully use the bible. Every word in it. If something is the words of God, and you believe that, either follow every single, EVERY .... SINGLE .... WORD. Or trash the whole thing as the words of God, and move onto discerning the gospel of creation in every living thing and wisdom. it can be anywhere. And my view is every word is the word of god if they were all created by god. And every conceptual alignment or concept is the concepts of god if he/she/it created them all.

I am not on a quest to convert christians or something. But I have been known to debate them in ways..... Just like anything else.... Debate can cure us of our delusions, and make us more developed in terms of reality.

If you see these people(the baptists in the linked threads above) you may have a similar disdain for the bible and for people who follow it word for word(its an interesting psychology lesson if you care to see some of the most stupid realities on the planet are, of course just IMHo but i doubt any avalonian will disagree). But my point is you can judge a belief system ok by the amount of injustice it causes, and they CAN be inferior and superior in that way. That is why I disagree with you Jake. We wouldn't be burning herbalists at the stake as witches if we were all pagans. Pagan > Christianity in whole. But i'm not saying every pagan is more spiritually developed than every chirstian. Belief systems can be equal with the right soulular wisdom. If we were all wise, but had different belief systems, I'd not care as much.


Edit: The baptists editted some of my posts btw, so some of that i did not say(they dont let the edit show up.....) and you wont see their ridiculousness as much in my threads than in other areas of the forum.

[Jake]

If the tsking was directed at me I don't try to convert people to my universal reality.

Absolutely not aimed at you... sorry... I was attempting to make a general statement about the tendencies of Christian sects to project their beliefs on others. :)

[Agape]

It's unfortunatelly true in many ways but ..ask any traditional and religious scholar about it and he will tell you that you're not supposed to understand G because His makings are beyond our capacity of understanding ..and that he ( the priest ) is the last possible person who understands G.

Some priests of course do not go by that rule and feel they're the true messengers of his will .

If the priest is good he'll also tell you that the Biblical story of Genesis etc. is a metaphor with thousands of possible interpretations . And therefore , again, we can not capture all it's meaning at once, and should not take it literally .

At the same time there are many orthodox ( I don't want to say stupid ) priests who believe that the only way how to become a good person is to accept all that is stated without questioning it .


It's much more complicated than it seems to be . But you're correct in the direction of your thinking ..




Just be careful where do you want to go from this ..



:pray:

[Mark]

The worship of a single, one world, God-figure,, only serves to strip us of our own power and deliver it unto those who would seek to deceive us. God does NOT need to be glorified. or worshiped. or exalted above all others. These are all devisive approaches that only keep us shackled to the old way of things. :)


Anyway, those are my thoughts on the delusions of grandeur of religion. I am not saying the bible is useless. However I simply reject that the creator of all things is a ridiculously HUGE psychopath, that if he lived on earth and carried the same traits would end up being executed for his psychopathic traits.

Greetings, and thank you all for such a great discussion. This is a big one right here and goes past just speaking of the Hebrew tradition. In a way, it is judgment against all of the traditions which contributed to it, to include the Mesopotamian and African roots of the Judaic traditions, as well as those prior which contributed to their current evolution. And, as a contextual aside, some of the ideas expressed in this thread go totally against the feelings, thoughts and experiences of so many people. I'm not saying that it is incorrect, just that it is shocking and threatening to anyone raised within those traditions. To say that God does not need to be glorified pretty much nullifies every hymn and song of praise ever made, every prayer where you first glorify God, etc. I'm saying this not to say that you are incorrect, but to say that moving beyond the glorification of an external diety to an internal diety as implicit in all conceptions of gnosis and unity consciousness is a revolution of thought and a heresy to those who take the scriptures as gospel.

To take on this perspective is to give up the idea of heaven as put forth by the church and its priests, preachers and other prosyletizers across millennia. To make such a blanket statement without qualifying it in regards to the Truth that is included in the major texts of the monotheistic trio also serves to make the rest of your posting difficult to process. Now, for context, I happen to agree with much you speak of but I think that perhaps some of the positive aspects of these religions ought to be considered as well as the truth that the highest path is found in all systems, for those who seek past the institutionalized and corrupted aspects, which also exist in practically every tradition, be it eastern, western, southern or northern.

Also, what about the reality that the glorification of the internal divinity is the glorification of the external conception of divinity as an expression of the cosmos, so that any praise given to God as exemplified by the Hebrew-descended conceptions thereof is in truth a glorification of that selfsame inner divinity of which we are each a representative? That the All is contained within the limited, the individual, and so accessing that All through external representation is actually an acknowledgement of the internal?

How about the potentiality that the Vale of Tears that we call Earth is a testing ground, a place of trials and tribulations and that those negative occurrences that the Church across millennia is responsible for are among those tests that we as material reproductions of the eternal and infinite are meant to experience, with these institutions serving as one of the filters through which these experiences must manifest?

An interesting topic that can go much, much deeper. Thank you for bringing it.

[Lord Sidious]

Judaism, christianity and islam to me, are star wars, the empire strikes back and return of the jedi.
They are different episodes of the same story, told from a different perspective.
I too have friends who practise, or not, one of the above and I value them, but not their system.
I still see this ''religion'' thing as trainer wheels for my bike.
I don't need them anymore, so I took them off.
Most of the christian and muslim system is judaic, so there isn't as much difference as we might think.
I studied the three systems, two from inside, judaism from the outside.

[Charlie Pecos]

Genesis is a very interesting read indeed. First human was Adam. Then 'God' put Adam to sleep and from him took what He needed to make woman, Eve. So then Adam and Eve have two sons, Cain and Abel. Cain kills Abel and is cast out of the garden of Eden. Now here's the tricky part: Cain has a wife! Umm, if there are only three people on the planet, where the hell did she come from? Was Adam a hybrid, the first of his kind, a genetically manipulated human? The biblical god says: "Come let us make a man in our image." Who's image was man made in before this? This 'God' then did not create the heavens and the earth, or even man for that matter.

And what of the tower of Babel story in which 'God' says "Come, let us go down there". Who exactly is 'God' talking to. There is much more but to my mind, the story of Genesis points to a being or group of beings playing 'God'. I have been uncomfortable with the words 'God' and 'Jesus' since I was a small child. To me, they are horribly misused and misconstrued. What our 'religions' do is separate us from one divine truth- we are the creator, individuated aspects of such. There is no separation.

[New Dawn]

Wow Omni, catchy title :)

I personally believe there was a Jesus (yes the wrong name perhaps!), I came to the conclusion when I was a lot younger that he was a product of ET's. I couldn't quite believe it when years later I discovered that others share my belief in this! As for God, well he was probably an ET, and far from perfect....Just my feelings on it, could be totally wrong, and I don't hang on to this belief with all I have, unlike a lot of religious people. Great to see nobody getting offended in here - makes me proud to be amongst fellow 'A's :)

[Lord Sidious]

Genesis is a very interesting read indeed. First human was Adam. Then 'God' put Adam to sleep and from him took what He needed to make woman, Eve. So then Adam and Eve have two sons, Cain and Abel. Cain kills Abel and is cast out of the garden of Eden. Now here's the tricky part: Cain has a wife! Umm, if there are only three people on the planet, where the hell did she come from? Was Adam a hybrid, the first of his kind, a genetically manipulated human? The biblical god says: "Come let us make a man in our image." Who's image was man made in before this? This 'God' then did not create the heavens and the earth, or even man for that matter.

And what of the tower of Babel story in which 'God' says "Come, let us go down there". Who exactly is 'God' talking to. There is much more but to my mind, the story of Genesis points to a being or group of beings playing 'God'. I have been uncomfortable with the words 'God' and 'Jesus' since I was a small child. To me, they are horribly misused and misconstrued. What our 'religions' do is separate us from one divine truth- we are the creator, individuated aspects of such. There is no separation.

I asked my priest that, years ago when I was a follower.
He told me that they married women ''from the other cities'' and told me to check it out.
It was in there!
So, Adam and Eve were not the first people, they were the first people of a particular type.

[Omni]

Wow Omni, catchy title :)


The title I would have done without respect filters being negated would be this(and they WERE negated until like 1 second after I posted and I tried to change the title in my post only to have it change it in my first post and not the thread title lol):

The Abrahamic God is a Total Psychopath

I apologize for any meaning taken by awakened Christians, Muslims, or Jewish people by the disgrace part. It is my true opinion but I would have kept that part to myself....

[Seikou-Kishi]

The God of the Bible is full of that paternalistic don't-do-as-I-do-do-as-I-say crap that made the Victorian era a resounding success. Thou shalt not kill, but I'm a genocidal wrathful beast... yeah, I can't be doing with that sort of rubbish.

[D-Day]

Great thread omni (as always), love your work mate!

I agree, more or less, with pretty much every point you made in your OP. That said, I don't have any (original) pearls of wisdom to contribute to this discussion, as pretty much everything I am aware of has been said in one way or another by other posters here already.

However, I will offer up the following two videos which I watched some time ago now and found very interesting. These videos provide many valuable (IMO) insights into the topic at hand, in them you will find a plethora of information and biblical references to God (Jehovah) and the story of Genesis.

Well worth a watch if you can find the time... there's nearly 5 hrs of video to get through and it's a little dry in parts.

Anyways, here you go...

Thunderbolts Of Truth (part 1):
3jsIFvRq330

Thunderbolts Of Truth (part 2):
SWyWXOmbtsI

P.S. Be aware that the narrator has a bit of a strange style about him but if you can look past that the information he presents (IMO) is pretty good.

[MargueriteBee]

May I recommend:Jumpin' Jehovah: Exposing the Atrocities of the Old Testament God by Paul Tice (Mar 1, 2000)
. You can find it at Amazon.

[RedeZra]

The answer I was taught, and what I do believe, is that this planet is run by another, truly evil entity. You can call him the Prince of Darkness, Satan, Reptilian, or whatever you want, but it is this entity, in my belief system, who rules over earth.

such a fantastic story

the top cherub that became blinded by his brilliance... and fell from grace from heaven down to earth

imagine such a mighty being as a cherub as an enemy to mankind


you don't know what you're up against people

[Lord Sidious]

The answer I was taught, and what I do believe, is that this planet is run by another, truly evil entity. You can call him the Prince of Darkness, Satan, Reptilian, or whatever you want, but it is this entity, in my belief system, who rules over earth.

such a fantastic story

the top cherub that became blinded by his brilliance... and fell from grace from heaven down to earth

imagine such a mighty being as a cherub as an enemy to mankind


you don't know what you're up against people

I would include you, all of us think or believe we know, but none do.
Not yet.

[Ernie Nemeth]

I was brought up in religion, too - until I could no longer accept the teachings of our church. I remember one night at about age 12 - 13, secretly calling down God's wrath and when nothing happened I simply quit believing. My parents were mortified and at first forced me to keep going to church but by 14 I was not required to attend any more.

It was years later before I understood there was even a difference between religion and spirituality. This revelation allowed me to break free of my guilt and my belief in sin. And spirituality became my religion for many years after.

Now, I think I mostly believe in my spirit - the only one I really know, in truth. It gives me a pretty clear picture of what others' spirit must be. The old addage, "If I can see it I must be it" is a tenet I try and live by. It often quickly sorts the lie from the truth if I'm honest with myself.

God? gods? ascended masters? Who knows of such things? Yet by applying the old addage a dichtomy appears.

But, I am no god...

[GCS1103]

The answer I was taught, and what I do believe, is that this planet is run by another, truly evil entity. You can call him the Prince of Darkness, Satan, Reptilian, or whatever you want, but it is this entity, in my belief system, who rules over earth.

such a fantastic story

the top cherub that became blinded by his brilliance... and fell from grace from heaven down to earth

imagine such a mighty being as a cherub as an enemy to mankind


you don't know what you're up against people

RedeZra-

Please enlighten us. I am interested in hearing what you believe we are up against. I respect everyone's beliefs, even if they are not mine.

[RedeZra]

The answer I was taught, and what I do believe, is that this planet is run by another, truly evil entity. You can call him the Prince of Darkness, Satan, Reptilian, or whatever you want, but it is this entity, in my belief system, who rules over earth.

such a fantastic story

the top cherub that became blinded by his brilliance... and fell from grace from heaven down to earth

imagine such a mighty being as a cherub as an enemy to mankind


you don't know what you're up against people

I would include you, all of us think or believe we know, but none do.
Not yet.

it's possible to distinguish truths from trash and I'm an expert at it ; )

[RedeZra]

The answer I was taught, and what I do believe, is that this planet is run by another, truly evil entity. You can call him the Prince of Darkness, Satan, Reptilian, or whatever you want, but it is this entity, in my belief system, who rules over earth.

such a fantastic story

the top cherub that became blinded by his brilliance... and fell from grace from heaven down to earth

imagine such a mighty being as a cherub as an enemy to mankind


you don't know what you're up against people

RedeZra-

Please enlighten us. I am interested in hearing what you believe we are up against. I respect everyone's beliefs, even if they are not mine.

as you say we are up against the cherub Satan

and he is the idol of the illuminati and the god of so many governments

and he hates us ; )

[GCS1103]

The answer I was taught, and what I do believe, is that this planet is run by another, truly evil entity. You can call him the Prince of Darkness, Satan, Reptilian, or whatever you want, but it is this entity, in my belief system, who rules over earth.

such a fantastic story

the top cherub that became blinded by his brilliance... and fell from grace from heaven down to earth

imagine such a mighty being as a cherub as an enemy to mankind


you don't know what you're up against people

RedeZra-

Please enlighten us. I am interested in hearing what you believe we are up against. I respect everyone's beliefs, even if they are not mine.

as you say we are up against the cherub Satan

and he is the idol of the illuminati and the god of so many governments

and he hates us ; )

Are you being serious or sarcastic?

[RedeZra]

The answer I was taught, and what I do believe, is that this planet is run by another, truly evil entity. You can call him the Prince of Darkness, Satan, Reptilian, or whatever you want, but it is this entity, in my belief system, who rules over earth.

such a fantastic story

the top cherub that became blinded by his brilliance... and fell from grace from heaven down to earth

imagine such a mighty being as a cherub as an enemy to mankind


you don't know what you're up against people

RedeZra-

Please enlighten us. I am interested in hearing what you believe we are up against. I respect everyone's beliefs, even if they are not mine.

as you say we are up against the cherub Satan

and he is the idol of the illuminati and the god of so many governments

and he hates us ; )

Are you being serious or sarcastic?

I'm serious as there is no sarcasm here and I'm not sure why you might perceive it as sarcasm

interesting

[Lord Sidious]

The answer I was taught, and what I do believe, is that this planet is run by another, truly evil entity. You can call him the Prince of Darkness, Satan, Reptilian, or whatever you want, but it is this entity, in my belief system, who rules over earth.

such a fantastic story

the top cherub that became blinded by his brilliance... and fell from grace from heaven down to earth

imagine such a mighty being as a cherub as an enemy to mankind


you don't know what you're up against people

I would include you, all of us think or believe we know, but none do.
Not yet.

it's possible to distinguish truths from trash and I'm an expert at it ; )

You believe you are, but our belief systems are like goggles and influence what we see.
Humbleness is good nugget, trust me on this.

[RedeZra]

The answer I was taught, and what I do believe, is that this planet is run by another, truly evil entity. You can call him the Prince of Darkness, Satan, Reptilian, or whatever you want, but it is this entity, in my belief system, who rules over earth.

such a fantastic story

the top cherub that became blinded by his brilliance... and fell from grace from heaven down to earth

imagine such a mighty being as a cherub as an enemy to mankind


you don't know what you're up against people

I would include you, all of us think or believe we know, but none do.
Not yet.

it's possible to distinguish truths from trash and I'm an expert at it ; )

You believe you are, but our belief systems are like goggles and influence what we see.
Humbleness is good nugget, trust me on this.

I would lie if I said that I'm no good at discerning truths from trash ; )

[Lord Sidious]

The answer I was taught, and what I do believe, is that this planet is run by another, truly evil entity. You can call him the Prince of Darkness, Satan, Reptilian, or whatever you want, but it is this entity, in my belief system, who rules over earth.

such a fantastic story

the top cherub that became blinded by his brilliance... and fell from grace from heaven down to earth

imagine such a mighty being as a cherub as an enemy to mankind


you don't know what you're up against people

I would include you, all of us think or believe we know, but none do.
Not yet.

it's possible to distinguish truths from trash and I'm an expert at it ; )

You believe you are, but our belief systems are like goggles and influence what we see.
Humbleness is good nugget, trust me on this.

I would lie if I said that I'm no good at discerning truths from trash ; )

And I would be a liar if I didn't tell you that I think you think too highly of your ''skills'' going by our past discussions.
Quotes from ''holy'' books are not proof, they may point to it, but they are another mans version of an event that none of us saw.

[RedeZra]

[QUOTE=Lord Sidious;299947]
it's possible to distinguish truths from trash and I'm an expert at it ; )

You believe you are, but our belief systems are like goggles and influence what we see.
Humbleness is good nugget, trust me on this.

I would lie if I said that I'm no good at discerning truths from trash ; )

And I would be a liar if I didn't tell you that I think you think too highly of your ''skills'' going by our past discussions.
Quotes from ''holy'' books are not proof, they may point to it, but they are another mans version of an event that none of us saw.

fine let's not argue about how smart I am ; )

[Lord Sidious]

fine let's not argue about how smart I am ; )

Sounds like a good plan.
Planugget.

[RedeZra]

So then Adam and Eve have two sons, Cain and Abel. Cain kills Abel and is cast out of the garden of Eden. Now here's the tricky part: Cain has a wife! Umm, if there are only three people on the planet, where the hell did she come from?

if there is something in Scripture that we question then perhaps somewhere in Scripture is the answer ; )

"After the birth of Seth, Adam lived another 800 years, and he had other sons and daughters." - Genesis 5:4




Was Adam a hybrid, the first of his kind, a genetically manipulated human? The biblical god says: "Come let us make a man in our image." Who's image was man made in before this? This 'God' then did not create the heavens and the earth, or even man for that matter.

there was no man on earth before the Trinity formed him from the earth

upright and magnificent like an earth angel

and the Trinity animated him with a portion of spirit




And what of the tower of Babel story in which 'God' says "Come, let us go down there". Who exactly is 'God' talking to.

the Trinity has an assembly of angels in heaven ; )

[RedeZra]

the title of this thread is like most things today an upside down version of the truth


whether we call God Abrahamic or Vedic

God is God

and the Personal Creator of his creation


humanity has let God down

and God will not tolerate it


soon we will feel the power of God


if we dont seek His mercy then we will find His judgement

[Omni]

it's possible to distinguish truths from trash and I'm an expert at it ; )

Then debate anything I said in my first post. I doubt you can. If you think the creator of all things is a psychopath of monstrous proportions and somehow you are an expert that can truly see through the veil I don't know what I can say there being honest, without saying something un-Avalonian.

That is one of the problems with the bible and many religions. It makes people "experts" at the entire universe and it really is at a level of humans about 1700 years ago(spiritual idiots who stole the writing of others) who were smart but severely clueless and lost IMO. They misdiagnosed nature's ruthlessness in early evolution as the creators pissed off diatribes of mass murder. and vengeance. And all of them who had read the bible a lot will tell you they are an expert at the universe, when none are even remotely close to that.

To accept the bible word for word defies all logic and reason IMO and obviously has been implanted into a majority of followers since birth by form of brainwashing, and honestly someone saying they think God is a psychopathic punisher of proportions there are no words for, a punisher for 'eternity' for confused and innocent people of epic proportions telling me they are an expert of perceiving reality tells me something is going wrong there...

I could put together a book with more wisdom and less flaws than the bible based on just my own inner flame. Maybe not as many metaphors describing history or things like that, or coding of math etc. But I could easily come up with something that describes wisdoms and knowledge etc that would have a much better effect on people if they thought it was the words of God. Nobody would kill over it based on what I said(at least not anyone listening to me). And I'm not saying I'm an expert at the universe. No human is IMO. I am saying the bible left out tons of wisdoms and self perfection type concepts, while including crazy(IMO) interpretations of the most high that justifies the insanity of wars, engineering stuff like aids, genocide, racism, and overall supreme arrogance thinking one has the entire universe figured out based on one contrived book. And the people liable to oppose religion like myself for many centuries were liable to be assassinated.

A Jesuit oath:


.... I do further promise and declare that I will have no opinion or will of my own or any mental reservation whatever[AKA ignore all heart and your own intuition and follow the orders of God AKA the POPE], even as a corpse or cadaver (perinde ac cadaver), but will unhesitatingly obey each and every command that I may receive from my superiors in the militia of the Pope and of Jesus Christ ....

Here's a kicker from this Jesuit oath:

I do further promise and declare that I will, when opportunity presents, make and wage relentless war, secretly and openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Masons, as I am directed to do, to extirpate them from the face of the whole earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex nor condition, and that will hang, burn, waste, boil, flay, strangle, and bury alive these infamous heretics; rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women, and crush their infants’ heads against the walls in order to annihilate their execrable race. That when the same cannot be done openly I will secretly use the poisonous cup, the strangulation cord, the steel of the poniard, or the leaden bullet, regardless of the honour, rank, dignity or authority of the persons, whatever may be their condition in life, either public or private, as I at any time may be directed so to do by any agents of the Pope or Superior of the Brotherhood of the Holy Father of the Society of Jesus.

Do you really think if Jesus was enlightened he would stand for that insanity? If the bible had truly enough wisdom to enlighten mans heart without any delusions and craziness, you wouldn't find any of these orders popping up basically saying they will infiltrate any government/country, kill anyone no matter how full of 'dignity' they are, kill their children, and do ANYTHING the POPE says without listening to ones own inner voice or heart, AKA the militia leader of 'Jesus Christ'.


More from this oath:


I hereby dedicate my life, soul, and all corporal powers, and with the dagger which I now receive I will subscribe my name written in my blood in testimony thereof; and should I prove false, or weaken in my determination, may my brethren and fellow soldiers of the militia of the Pope cut off my hands and feet and my throat from ear to ear, my belly be opened and sulphur burned therein with all the punishment that can be inflicted upon me on earth, and my soul shall be tortured by demons in eternal hell forever.

SO basically if you don't do what they say, they will torture and kill you, and they want you to think God, the psychopath up there, would send you to hell to be tortured for an eternity just for following your HEART.

There's more:


That I will place Catholic girls in Protestant families[and assumably any force that isn't the same] that a weekly report may be made of the inner movements of the heretics.

So basically make a sex slave out of women to spy on their enemies(so that they can be later killed or sabotaged), which were really just people who think different things......... All this sounds so strongly familiar. Kind of like the CIA :) I hazard to guess the origins of the CIA's darkness has at least SOMETHING to do with christianity..

Want more of this oath process? This is what the priest says before the subject says the last things I have quoted, and it's bone chillingly similar to what we see today from sources I bet you see as Satan if you are reasonable and have an active heart red(not a putdown I've had an inactive heart with mind control for some time periods and have respect for those naturally that way):


You have been taught to plant insidiously the seeds of jealousy and hatred between communities, provinces, states that were at peace, and to incite them to deeds of blood, involving them in war with each other, and to create revolutions and civil wars in countries that were independent and prosperous, cultivating the arts and the sciences and enjoying the blessings of peace; to take sides with the combatants and to act secretly with your brother Jesuit, who might be engaged on the other side, but openly opposed to that with which you might be connected, only that the Church might be the gainer in the end, in the conditions fixed in the treaties for peace and that the end justifies the means. You have been taught your duty as a spy, to gather all statistics, facts and information in your power from every source; to ingratiate yourself into the confidence of the family circle of Protestants and heretics of every class and character, as well as that of the merchant, the banker, the lawyer, among the schools and universities, in parliaments and legislatures, and the judiciaries and councils of state, and to be all things to all men, for the Pope’s sake, whose servants we are unto death.

Christianity could be the single most horrible thing to ever happen to this planet.... And the style we see used by the PTB here(the ruthless ones) mimicks EXACTLY these oaths. They are probably the ORIGIN of their injustices. The bible makes all this fine because GOD DOES IT TOO, and implanyts the delusion God WANTS This.... You can just imagine how self-righteous they would have to be to infiltrate, poison, murder, and pit against each other(like the CIA) countries that were "prosperous and peaceful" etc, and to kill the children of all people who do not think as the Jesuits do(exactly what they think).

Is it any surprise the amount of christians we have today when everyone else was systematically infiltrated, and ESPECIALLY targeted if they were intelligent or spiritually developed?

It's natural selection INVERTED from what it's supposed to be.

Sorry for the text size if it didn't have the intended effect. lol. I am just one man so my opinion is just one man's words... My text size is not for yelling but for how acutely revealing and pitiful they are.

The bible is the biggest conspiracy theory I've ever heard. And IMPO its ridiculous and has caused more evil than anything else on the planet that I'm aware of that is namable and irrefutable.

[Omni]

You believe you are, but our belief systems are like goggles and influence what we see.


Wise words my friend. I have similar ones. Such as this quote of mine:

The omniverse(and reality) is profoundly holographic. So holographic people often see what they want to in it. Go into something with pre-conceived notions and the mental matrix serves notions that align with the belief.
-Omnisense

TO think we have all details figured out is the sign of a delusional person not a man of wisdom. The things we can know for sure(not discounting connecting dots but they are liable to be faulty in many cases), is following the heart. Compassion. To not propagate injustice upon any man women or child or other being that somehow doesn't fit that(androginous etc). To listen to our heart, and act with dignity. These are more the intentions and will of God for us if I had to guess. But I'm not going to say things I have no clue or real way of knowing for sure. But I will say following one's heart(in a compassion sense) is the way for humans. And I can only say that with assurance because it means less people will suffer, especially innocent people but not limited to them. And only the most idiotic and spiritually unevolved will say people suffering in general is a good thing overall(not talking about how we can gain from suffering, it can be a better thing at times but I'm speaking in general).

[fox.mulder]

From my study of the bible, the god of the old testament seems to be a completely diferent character than Jesus in the new testament. Yes the old testament god displays psychopathic tendancies. But Jesus actually spoke with compassion. I can't see the Jesus character doing any of the things the old testament god did.

[RedeZra]

it's possible to distinguish truths from trash and I'm an expert at it ; )

Then debate anything I said in my first post. I doubt you can.

why do you write so much ? it's pretty painful to read what you write

so why do you want me to wallow through your thoughts


I'm not an adept in truths by reading the Bible but because I'm guided by the Holy spirit ; )

[Davidallany]

I was born where the fictional character Abraham was born, and I can tell everyone this with authority, the god of Abraham does not exist. There is a metaphysical power, but it's not the creator of a universe or a multiverse. At most it's a caretaker of part of space among other caretakers. We humans also have access to metaphysical powers.
Most people are not ready to take responsibility for being. It's a bit scary to know that there is NO one going to forgive you. You must forgive yourself, and you don't need a reason to love other creatures, compassion can take care of that.

[Omni]

it's possible to distinguish truths from trash and I'm an expert at it ; )

Then debate anything I said in my first post. I doubt you can.

why do you write so much ? it's pretty painful to read what you write

so why do you want me to wallow through your thoughts


I'm not an adept in truths by reading the Bible but because I'm guided by the Holy spirit ; )

Of course, since you believe something the holy spirit guides you. I've seen it all before. It's just another way of thinking you are more right than others and your thoughts are more divine without ever having to debate anything. That kind of thought can't be debated...

And why? To see if you can with reason and logic show them faulty as you are calling them faulty but not showing us where they are faulty.. I apologize if they are painful, and I'm guessing you don't even read them all.


From my study of the bible, the god of the old testament seems to be a completely diferent character than Jesus in the new testament. Yes the old testament god displays psychopathic tendancies. But Jesus actually spoke with compassion. I can't see the Jesus character doing any of the things the old testament god did.

The new testament has psychopathic tendencies as well. they just upped it because I think people's BS detectors could see that it wasn't right at all and they were rejecting it possibly... With things like "you cannot approach the alter of god if you have poor eyesight" {paraphrasing] or "you can sell your daughter into being a slave" etc. i think people with heart could see that and reject that at a level that was undesirable to the controllers.

I'm not saying Jesus was not a man with wisdom(if he existed). But IMO his teaching were bastardized and used to inflict this system of control and corruption upon mankind. And you can see clearly in the Jesuit oaths i brought up, its clearly corrupted.

Problem is on any given page in the bible you are liable to see very few if any of the lessons of Jesus.... If there was a book on things Jesus was reported to say, and only that, I'd read it. I have a feeling he was like most of us here at Avalon, and would spit on the current western religions/cults.

[RedeZra]

it's possible to distinguish truths from trash and I'm an expert at it ; )

Then debate anything I said in my first post. I doubt you can.

why do you write so much ? it's pretty painful to read what you write

so why do you want me to wallow through your thoughts


I'm not an adept in truths by reading the Bible but because I'm guided by the Holy spirit ; )

Of course, since you believe something the holy spirit guides you. I've seen it all before. It's just another way of thinking you are more right than others and your thoughts are more divine.


I am a human being as yourself but I am guided by God

sure I read some of what you write but yes it's pretty painful

[jcocks]

The answer I was taught, and what I do believe, is that this planet is run by another, truly evil entity. You can call him the Prince of Darkness, Satan, Reptilian, or whatever you want, but it is this entity, in my belief system, who rules over earth.

such a fantastic story

the top cherub that became blinded by his brilliance... and fell from grace from heaven down to earth

imagine such a mighty being as a cherub as an enemy to mankind


you don't know what you're up against people

I would include you, all of us think or believe we know, but none do.
Not yet.

If "satan" could see who we have ready and willing to come to our aid if he were to attack us, he would think twice. He may be powerful, but he's not **THAT** powerful. And, he knows better.

In other words, no fear here. :)

[Omni]

it's possible to distinguish truths from trash and I'm an expert at it ; )

Then debate anything I said in my first post. I doubt you can.

why do you write so much ? it's pretty painful to read what you write

so why do you want me to wallow through your thoughts


I'm not an adept in truths by reading the Bible but because I'm guided by the Holy spirit ; )

Of course, since you believe something the holy spirit guides you. I've seen it all before. It's just another way of thinking you are more right than others and your thoughts are more divine.


I am a human being as yourself but I am guided by God

sure I read some of what you write but yes it's pretty painful

And I am not guided by God? Is not everyone guided by God in ways? I see these as ways to justify in your mental programming in a very strong way your views are bar none superior to any other. A way to ignore everything beyond your own "goggles" as LS put so wonderfully. To think ones own "goggles" are guided by God, and others aren't, is a vector for corruption in ones thoughts and stagnant reason and progression.

And they wouldn't be painful if they had no truth I tend to think. if it was nonsense I don't think you'd care. I again apologize for that. I am not intending to create any pain. Sometimes growth hurts...... If it's happening(not saying it is).

[jcocks]

Well, god is within us all - he is that which gives us life. Some of us are just completely ignorant of that fact (to put it *very* mildly :) ).

[ghostrider]

God is a spirit , Jesus is flesh, Jesus is the spirit made manifest in the flesh, Jesus put a face on grace. when it talks of father and son , it's father (spirit) and the son (flesh). sub the word spirit when you see father and flesh when you see son it will make sense to you . for the spirit so loved the world it gave it's only begotten flesh , full of grace and truth..... I am in the father and the father in me, I and my father are one. let us go down and confound their language ( US ) = angels- angels carry the word of the spirit.... let us make man in our image after our likeness..= he was speaking to the creation= dirt and water= so God created man in his own image.... = the father is spirit =the son is flesh.... this is the gate and few their be that find it, the truth shall set you free....Jesus and God are the same person....... oneness... flesh and spirit in oneness... Jesus was speaking to his higher self=spirit..... there is only one God.....His name is Jesus..... the word trinity isn't even in the bible, just a trick to hide truth, and behold ONE sat on the throne, his eyes were as a flame of fire and HIS feet were as fine brass..... if you have seen me you have seen the father and how sayest thou then show us the father , have I been so long time with you and yet thou hast not known me ???? It's not me that doeth the works , my father (spirit) that is in me He doeth the works......

[jcocks]

grrr! There I go using the He word again ! god is of course beyond all gender, but you knew what I meant! :)

[Davidallany]

A way to ignore everything beyond your own "goggles" as LS put so wonderfully. To think ones own "goggles" are guided by God, and others aren't, is a vector for corruption in ones thoughts and stagnant reason and progression
My friend Omniverse, this is how hatred operates, it thrives on competition, mistrust and conceits. An ego is a master of disguise, it's much better to meet it face to face, than to pretend to ignore it. The ego will use pretty much all conceits to ensure it's safety, including national superiority, religious superiority, sexism, ethnic hatred, and all other forms of chauvinism.

[mosquito]

Bloody hell Omni !! Where did you find those Baptists ? That's the scariest forum I've ever seen ! Would that by any chance be the place where you were so heavily insulted, that you spoke of in the other thread ?

[Omni]

Bloody hell Omni !! Where did you find those Baptists ? That's the scariest forum I've ever seen ! Would that by any chance be the place where you were so heavily insulted, that you spoke of in the other thread ?

No that place was ironically an alien and conspiracy forum(where skeptics run rabid). lol. Te baptists are on a whole diff level. lol These are the products of southern USA evangelicals(the types who supported Bush). And they are powerful. There is a forbes top 50 billionaire there if i remember correctly. And honestly now that I think of it, they will see this thread with their analytics..... And there may be retribution because they have similar beliefs to the oaths I provided. That they sabotage in the name of God, and they are doing Gods work by doing things like editting my posts dishonorably. lol. Be on guard there Avalon mods and I apologize if anything happens... not much to fear, you'd be able to spot ones lack of wisdom quite thoroughly in an app or their posts very quickly. lol

I found it by someone linking it on my old forum. Which a link for that thread is here(the forum is no longer active): http://omnisense.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=298&start=0

I sum up some of their crazy beliefs in it of my ET data extracting of them(which turned out to be not my own thought, but my controllers, for multi-faceted reasons, one so they may target me in the future and persecute me, and another to extract data on their beliefs for psy ops I imagine).....
one quote said in the ET thread I made by one of the baptists:


As for alien life out there, if they actually exist they'd damn well better accept Christ as their Lord and Savior! We don't have the time or patience to convert billions of planets to Christianity. We have enough problems dealing with the mooslimps here on Earth. Either they fall into line, or we nuke them out of existence. Space monkeys have no rights, so we'll sweep them aside and populate their worlds with True Christians. It's what Jesus wants.

More coming:


God be with you Columba.

Always keep Jesus with you and stay away from queers and science. Find a good woman who will birth you a lot of children and stay in the kitchen. Go to church and give all your money to God. He is the only one for you. Always go with Christ.

Praise Jesus.

One put someting along the lines of I am NOT gay!!! in his sig. LOL

More coming to this edited post(oops nvm, i thought i pasted more).

[Omni]

A way to ignore everything beyond your own "goggles" as LS put so wonderfully. To think ones own "goggles" are guided by God, and others aren't, is a vector for corruption in ones thoughts and stagnant reason and progression
My friend Omniverse, this is how hatred operates, it thrives on competition, mistrust and conceits. An ego is a master of disguise, it's much better to meet it face to face, than to pretend to ignore it. The ego will use pretty much all conceits to ensure it's safety, including national superiority, religious superiority, sexism, ethnic hatred, and all other forms of chauvinism.

I totally agree. All the people murdering children and sabotaging peaceful countries and groups in the name of the jesuit orders(that i quoted the oaths of), were doing it because "the holy spirit" told them to...

[toothpick]

My grandma, who i loved dearly, dragged all us kids to church.
We went willingly for, her, not for the relgion.
I personally can not and will not respect any god that uses fear and intimidation on the people.
I think god should be a loving, selfless source of all things wonderful.

toothpick

During many ages there were wtches . The bible said so. The bible commanded they should not be allowed to live. Therefor the church, after doing it,s duty in but a lazy and indolent way for 800 yrs, gathered up its halters, thumbscrews, and firebrands, and set about its holy work in earnest. She worked hard at it night and day for eight centuries and imprsoned, tortured, hanged, and burned whole hordes and armies of witches, and washed the christian world clean with thier foul blood.

Then it was discovered that there was no such thing as witches, and never had been. one does not know wether to laugh or cry. Who discovered there was no such thng as a witch - the priest, the parson? No, these never discover anything. At Salem. the parson clung pathetically to his witch text after the laity had abandoned it in remorse and tears for the crimes and cruelties it has persuaded them to do. The parson wanted more blood, more shame, more brutalities; it was unconsecrated laity that stayed his hand. In Scotland the parson killed the witch after the magistrate had pronounced her innocent; and when the merciful legislature proposed to sweep the hidieous laws aganst witches from the statute book, it was the parson who came imploring, with tears and imprecautions, that they be suffered to stand.

There are no witches. the witch text remains; only its practise has changed. Hell fire is gone, but the text remains. Infant damnation is gone, but the text remains. More than two hundred death penalties are gone from the law books, but the text that authorized them remain.

It is not well worthy of note that of all the multitude of texts through which man has driven his annihilating pen he has never once made the mistake of obliterating a good and useful one? It does certainly seem to suggest that if man continues in the directon of enlghtenment, his religious practice may, in the end, attain some semblance of human decency.

Mark Twain

[ktlight]

Religion is indoctrination, designed filters through which we view life. Designed and manipulated to control the populations. Elements of truth exist in them all, or similar stories exist in them all, otherwise they would not, could not stand up to ordinary thinking.

Those of us who went through the baptism and creed initiations, whose life urged investigation, spend years undoing. First thing that happens is extreme reluctance to take on board anything outside of the original teaching - identified as entrenched thought battling against enlightenment, bringing internal pain, confusion and war, which gradually subsides as understanding is reached. Perseverance is the key.

It is said that we choose what we go through as children. I'm not sure that I agree, although I accept that we choose potentials of experiences that we can learn from. But some of the childhood experiences are such a huge shock that we bury them instantly in repression and they materialise back into our mind at a later stages in our lives for processing. It's all in the mind.

There comes a point when we meet the question 'who or what created the creator', a question that cannot be discussed.

So, we find out for ourselves that something, not ourselves, controls us.

We realise we must make and take our own steps on a pathless path, one step at a time and this endeavour leads us to realise that the Universe, inside and out, is ready and full of loving energy to imbue in us, and it is never vengeful, jealous, hateful, judgmental. It is nothing of what is taught in religions. We realise that that loving energy comes from much further outside of the Universe into the Universe and is available to us all. And we also know who we are.

Everything is is the mind, but not everything is in the lower mind.

[Davidallany]

Those who are following Abrahamic religions, do so because it justifies their hatred. It's a great place to develop violent thoughts towards those following another Abrahamic religion. Thus creating opportunities for wars and disunity among people, which translates to divide and conquer, since it's easier to manage smaller groups of sticks. The possibility for unity among billions of people is a nightmare to the few tens of controllers who have been trying to run the show.

[New Dawn]

humanity has let God down

and God will not tolerate it

soon we will feel the power of God

if we dont seek His mercy then we will find His judgement


Jeeez RedeZra...God sounds like a real pain in the arse. Get over yourself dude (not you - that's to God!)

Honestly, you say humanity has let God down and he won't tolerate it?

No. God has let me/us down. I have good people around me dying of various things, people young and old. I watch people suffer all around me and yet there's no-one to ease their suffering in any way. I spend a lot of my time trying to help these people in what ever little ways I can.

God has let me down. But me being me, I forgive him for the mess he's caused on this entire planet and I hope he takes comfort in that....Or at least thinks about bettering himself in the future. Honestly, trying to get through to God to make him see the error of his ways is so difficult when he doesn't even give a ****!

[Omni]

humanity has let God down

and God will not tolerate it

soon we will feel the power of God

if we dont seek His mercy then we will find His judgement


Jeeez RedeZra...God sounds like a real pain in the arse. Get over yourself dude (not you - that's to God!)

Honestly, you say humanity has let God down and he won't tolerate it?

No. God has let me/us down. I have good people around me dying of various things, people young and old. I watch people suffer all around me and yet there's no-one to ease their suffering in any way. I spend a lot of my time trying to help these people in what ever little ways I can.

God has let me down. But me being me, I forgive him for the mess he's caused on this entire planet and I hope he takes comfort in that....Or at least thinks about bettering himself in the future. Honestly, trying to get through to God to make him see the error of his ways is so difficult when he doesn't even give a ****!

Beautiful post by an obviously beautiful person. Wonderful points. If your own creations disappoint you is it really their fault, or your own?

[passiglight]

So typical of you omniverse to come on a thread which i have placed on this forum,,and slant me personally and unnecessarily ,,,,,,and then start a thread like this where regarding the very same person or entity you judge in such an emotive manner,,,,,,,,


The facts are this , and they are plain straight forward and simple,,,,,,,,,,

the abrahamic god you refer to here,,,,,,is none other than the entity known as St Germain,,,,,,,,,WHO,,,,,,,is the father of Jesus,,,,,,,,,,,,,

and is IS RA EL


Whom i have been pointing out is more than likely Satan himself,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,(THE FALLEN )


If you guys stopped emoting and started being a tad more analytical you might just connect enough dots together to work some elemental stuff out...........

or alternatively when TSHTF you can just go running to the arms of the devil himself...........

which in my humble whatnot is more than likely the end result anyhow.................


AWAKE !!!!!!!!!????????

[Omni]

So typical of you omniverse to come on a thread which i have placed on this forum,,and slant me personally and unnecessarily ,,,,,,and then start a thread like this where regarding the very same person or entity you judge in such an emotive manner,,,,,,,,

Did you not just do what you accuse me of? There is a name for that you know. You were preaching the obvious contrived drivel absurd revelations of atticus/charles and saying his 5,000 year old master was Jesus and was the source of all artistic meaningful creations in the human history. As if he is channeling all of humanity's talent and we have NONE. Just one of the many ridiculous things you have said to merit me saying you are full of it(or implying). I take offense to such contrived things being pushed upon Avalon.

I've only disrespected like 2 or 3 people here ever(in a timid way) in responding to well over a thousand posts. So it's hardly typical. As a mind control victim, firstly, it's easy to get me to say views here on Avalon people keep to themselves normally. But are my natural views. Secondly, they can at times get me to say things that are not my natural views....

Does anyone agree it's "so typical" of me to slant people personally and unnecessarily and judge people? If you really want to put me down, I can reflect your energy. Your thread on atticus' master is a huge waste of time and so full of obviously bull**** you are wasting hundreds of hours of people's time propagating the obvious garbage charles came here saying, as if he was disrespecting our intelligence and thought we were all gullible idiots. You started a thread promising proof and revelations of monstrous proportions then stated you don't have the time to tell us such things....

And please, stop being a hypocrite. Here is a post showing you called me a forum infiltrator(before I said a damn thing about you, actions have reactions ya know passig my respect is relative) and showed how distorted your reality is clearly, to at least me and onyxknight:


I remember you[passig] coming to my thread and accusing me of manipulation and "infiltration" of this forum, together with Omniverse. Somehow (I dunno how you managed) you connected me with some royal house, a bloodline, and with Phillipe, for some odd reason.

Obviously the works of someone with an over-active imagination, at least to both onyx and I.

And with quotes like this, I don't see how anyone could respect your discernment of me:


Atticus was the real deal,allright and the real deal is what he is,,,,,,,,a predator, a tracker, a calculating genius,,,,,,trained and honed to the core....

And working for the highest of the high,,,,doubt his ability or his accuracy never

When a celebrity is in town,,,,,,,,you get the greatest show on earth,,,,,,,

Atticus working for the highest of most high? You elevated atticus to prophet levels and projected upon people everything he says is totally true, and promoted his garbage unto others. And this is what I said(rather humbly compared to my true feelings):


This is flat out ridiculous passig(mainly the bolded). The fact that you are calling other people clueless is laughable if it wasn't sad....

I take offense to peoples time on avalon getting wasted with total nonsense. And now that you attack me, I have no problem being blunt with you. Although my levels of Avalons energy and respect are being negated right now....


which in my humble whatnot is more than likely the end result anyhow.................


AWAKE !!!!!!!!!????????

Obviously you are Christian. I expected a couple attacks for this thread. I guess even on Avalon I was right. If you can debate any of my points feel free. until then as long as you attack me I'll put it right back in your face quoting your ridiculous self-determined with no evidence at all(that is anywhere near solid) garbage and projecting those delusions upon Avalon as if charles is some prophet working for God. I think everyone can see that the premise is total lunacy. And I apologize for my lack of respect but what you have accused me of in such hypocritical ways, merits it in ways(I'm sure I could have exacted myself better without mind control). With the amount of injustice I have been through they can energetically make me one of the most aggressive defenders of myself possible(all they have to do is put the amount of injustice I've been through in my mind and the amount of attacks I've gotten mixed with a bit of discernment and self control tampering and I can be unleashed, but not without potent truth involved, for example not my subjective views, quotes of your garbage on this forum). Granted, I'm not reaching those levels here...

And since I'm getting you follow this religion, I'll quote you from your own belief system, the words of God that justifies this post by me(in ways, its inexcusable in ways but i dont care atm):

Matthew 7:1 "judge not lest ye be judged"

AKA "Do not judge, or you too will be judged."


and then start a thread like this where regarding the very same person or entity you judge in such an emotive manner,,,,,,,

Traits have definitions. The God in the bible, is a psychopath by definition.

[Lord Sidious]

Calm down you nuggets.
Carrots arriving by special shipment for Uncle Sidious tomorrow.

[Omni]

"
well....for a start Atticus came out and admitted to the 18 that the whole " master" thing was all BS
3:57 AM
that with the cancer also"

*****************************
quoted from an anonymous skype convo

As my quote shows(not conclusively, but enough for me) that atticus admitted to the 18 his master drivel was BS... He must have not had respect for Avalon... Sorry passig but you've been had, in a terrible way. Atticus' master is pure fantasy. And the more you waste people's time with it..... Well I'll just say it's wasting people's time, and hurting Avalon's credibility. This was told directly from an ex-18 member, to the person who told me.

"AWAKE??????????!!!!!!!!!!!"

Ironic. ....

[jcocks]

Don't you **LOVE** how religion always brings out the worst in people? Sure-fire way to start one HELL of an argument, especially on here :)

[ktlight]

They know not what they do.

[Omni]

Don't you **LOVE** how religion always brings out the worst in people? Sure-fire way to start one HELL of an argument, especially on here :)

I feel and know that but I'm not into the societal programming(which is also wisdom but it's a tactic too) of not speaking about it just because people can't be civil and ego gets involved.

By having the mechanic to never talk about it, it means we don't grow or learn about it. True many will never learn, but some may gain from it. And that makes it worth it even if a few people get offended(including me).

[Lisab]

"becoming more like God, becoming God" lyrics by Jah Wobble.
Even as a kid the word lie in bible used to stand out to me.

[Charlie Pecos]

There is NO 'god' judging anyone. We are 'god', WE judge ourselves and each other. That is all, very simple and very straight forward. Everything else is religious indoctrination.
LS said he outgrew those training wheels, I came in knowing I didn't need them. The biblical God is no god at all, rather he or they are STS beings, using their 'powers' to frighten, control, and manipulate a less evolved and less aware people. If one chooses to buy into the whole god and jesus thing the way it is sold within the context of organized religion, that is their CHOICE. I know it to be a lie, foisted upon a gullible and vulnerable people. Knowledge is power, we can either accept the lie at face value or we can go within to gain the knowledge that 'they' would deny us. They cannot actually deny us our birthright, but they can make it look like it's not even there. The exceptionally blind will insist it does not exist. FWIW

[greybeard]

Only God is--- that is the ultimate truth.
Nothing ever happened to anyone.

It all depends how far down the different levels of understanding/vibration you want to go.

Skipping a few levels.

At the human vibration it seems there is duality but even here there is no judgment by God.
Either God is unconditional love or HE/SHE isent
I believe God is Love
The way it is set up it is self regulating.
Being kind, loving, life supporting, raises ones personal vibration and all others too.

We automatically attract into our lives the vibration that we give out--- consequences for each action -- thats karma.
Similarly when we leave this world we automatically go to the heaven or other domain that our spiritual vibration is concordant with, a place that we will feel is familiar, comfortable, home. (Jesus said In my Fathers house are many mansions)

Strange though it might seem, some love to get angry seek revenge violently, they would not be happy in a heaven it would seem completely alien to them.
Anger attracts other angry people.

Loving nature sooner or later attract the same.
God is Love and sooner or later everyone is attracted to that Love--- can take many lifetimes.

Chris

[RedeZra]

you do know that governments


are poisoning us through the air water and food

distributing drugs on the streets

sending our young men and women to die in wars

designing depressions on wall street

confiscating our wealth and work

suppressing artifacts about our history and concocting false theories about our origins


who do you think they serve

who is the god of so many goverments ?


the idol of the illuminati


why is it that you cannot compute 2 + 2 when you got all the data

[Lord Sidious]

Who says we can't?
Who says you can?

[New Dawn]

why is it that you cannot compute 2 + 2 when you got all the data

RedezRa, read Omni's opening post on this thread. I have yet to see you compute that data.

[Charlie Pecos]

Perhaps we see something you don't. The truth, like the lie, is different on every level. There are many, many levels.
Step outside of governments poisoning and manipulating, and you will find that it is consciousness that wills it to be. No good, no bad. Just IS.
Consciousness is ALL, as in all of us, every being, every rock, every thing. Every being is an individuated aspect of the creator. We are but a thought in the creators mind- the good, the bad, all of it.
Plainly- If bad things happen, it is because as a collective consciousness we allow it to happen and we have the power to change it. Look into your own life, there you will see on a micro scale what power you have over 'good' and 'bad'; this follows through to the macro scale. Each part, each individuation doing it's part to support the whole, whatever that whole may be. And the work that each part does determines on a cumulative level what the whole will be.
Most importantly, we are not being punished by any 'god', because we are not separate from God (Source, Creator). Separation and punishment are an illusion. An entity separate from us, judging us, imprisoning us- is simply an illusion. IT DOES NOT EXIST.

[RedeZra]

it's not possible to pierce through the many layers of illusion if one is not a Buddha

and it's tuff to see through the deception today if one is not an elect


we could all be elects

as easy as drinking water

but something is required


walking in the will of God

[KosmicKat]

But, I am no god...
When you discover who / what you are, you would be amazed except by that point there are more amazing things demanding your attention

[Charlie Pecos]

To see clearly, one but needs to go within. Seek and ye shall find, ask and it shall be given, knock and the door will open.
I am just a man, yet if I can do it brother, be sure that you can too. It is a bit confusing at first, takes time. Ask for clarity, ask God/Jesus/Higher Self/Universe.
It will be added unto you.

[Omni]

it's not possible to pierce through the many layers of illusion if one is not a Buddha

Are you calling yourself a buddha? Because you have no humility in explaining how good you are at this thing called self interpreted reality...

This usually means that someone has not discovered themselves wrong much in life, and are full of illusions since birth, when so sure one is a self-proclaimed expert at reality in my experiences.

When you discover how many illusions you have had at times in certain ways, one becomes humble in thinking they know everything and have everything figured out. I find it quite a decently surefire way to judge a contactee. If they have been put in their place as ETs can do, they are always humble(or mostly anyway confidence is there but humility is too).

One example of this is to be holographically shown how your judgments upon other people(in negative ways) are often complete and utter $hite.

[RedeZra]

it's not possible to pierce through the many layers of illusion if one is not a Buddha

Are you calling yourself a buddha? Because you have no humility in explaining how good you are at this thing called self interpreted reality...

This usually means that someone has not discovered themselves wrong much in life, and are full of illusions since birth, when so sure one is a self-proclaimed expert at reality in my experiences.

I'm not a Buddha but I am an elect

[RedeZra]

humanity has let God down

and God will not tolerate it

soon we will feel the power of God

if we dont seek His mercy then we will find His judgement


Honestly, you say humanity has let God down and he won't tolerate it?



I'm not saying that you have let God down

that is between God and you


but I am saying that our leaders have let God down

and because they receive power and prestige from Satan they do his bidding


our so called leaders couldn't care less about us

they have become corrupted by association with Satan


and they will try to corrupt us too as that is the Great work

to make sure that nobody will be found worthy to achieve heaven

[Omni]

humanity has let God down

and God will not tolerate it

soon we will feel the power of God

if we dont seek His mercy then we will find His judgement


Honestly, you say humanity has let God down and he won't tolerate it?



I'm not saying that you have let God down

that is between God and you


but I am saying that our leaders have let God down

and because they receive power and prestige from Satan they do his bidding


our so called leaders couldn't care less about us

they have become corrupted by association with Satan


and they will try to corrupt us too as that is the Great work

to make sure that nobody will be found worthy to achieve heaven

So basically if God's other son Satan(kind of) is powerful enough to mind control us in ways to be mislead(which is totally easy and I doubt you will deny that), those people go to an eternal never ending hellfire and damnation?

How is this the work of a being with any wisdom or enlightenment at all?

Answer me these PLEASE:

WHY would Satan not want us in heaven? He has enough beings to play with(if he exists, which I don't think so at all). If satan wants us to go to hell because he hates god and wants to deprive god of us wonderful presence(or vice versa), why would god make him like this and unleash him?

WHY would God, a loving and assumably understanding creator ALLOW Satan to cause innocent beings suffer FOREVER because something God lets run around misleading them? Makes no sense at all.

If just ONE being gets to suffer forever, and doesn't deserve it(which will tie into my next question), God is incompetant. That is literally and well defined as infinite injustice being done. After all suffering forever is an infinite amount.

What in your mind, is an action worthy of the punishment to suffer FOREVER? There is no lesson involved there. It's pure SPITE on galactic level, even universal levels, even multiversal levels, maybe even omniversal levels, since heaven and hell would be part of the omniverse...

If God will not tolerate humans from such despicable acts, why does he tolerate Satan doing it to all of the universe forever?

Have you ever liked a person that is hellbound? And do you honestly think they deserve to suffer forever? Would you think a Mansonite torturing them with saws and drugs and burning them etc, is just fine?

You can't hide behind the holy spirit dead end with these, so there is a logical debate to be had if you even bother replying(if you can).

There is always a point in logical debate a christian or muslim of Jewish person draws the line, and refuses to even try to debate with reason, because the reason ENDS and it becomes impossible.

[jcocks]

Is it me, or is it getting a little hot in here?


I'll go get some cold water for us all........

Chill pills for everyone!

[New Dawn]

If filling the shoes of God was a job, he would have been fired a long long time ago - just my opinion on it!

That's why the rest of this is kind of irrelevant, because even after all these years he's still rubbish at it!.

Don't you think its about time someone asked him to step down and let someone else have a go? If I was God, I'd start with losing my ego, and then help the suffering on earth (or start giving a ****). Its kinda embarrassing that I'd do a better job in five minutes....With a God like that, who the hell needs a satan?

God - you're fired!!!!

As Jcocks said, its getting a little hot in here - maybe this will lighten the mood:

-ROTzn4L3M8

[Charlie Pecos]

Our leaders receive power and prestige from US. Our 'leaders' let US down. WE allow it to happen. Hell, WE facilitate it! If WE did not allow it, it would not happen. WE are the ones who relinquish our power, our sovereign rights, WE are they who did NOTHING to stop it. And WE have but to step up and reclaim our power from those who do not have the right to use our power without our permission. Not as individuals, but as a collective. Each doing their part to support the whole. Heaven on Earth.

[greybeard]

I can see all the logic and profound arguments.

Omniverse -- one word freewill

At this level of illusion we can choose to love God or not, we can choose to adhere to the first two comandments or not.
We did not create hell--- the beings of the lower astral are that hell. They deny God, they feed on negative energy, cruelty selfishness etc.
They perpetrate that though the human ego = Edge God Out
The temptation of Jesus was very real.

So we must act in accordance with the reality we find ourselves in.
Its no good saying we are one without a commitment to find out the truth of it.
This is the perfect world for spiritual advancement --- many opportunities to let go of negative thinking and acts.
Free will, so many times we get to choose love or fear.

Our vibration fell with the taking of the apple, probably mainly a metaphor but an event or process happened that did lower consciousness.
By following the first two commandments, just being kind to all life no matter what including our own, we raise our consciousness and are well on the journey home to a place we never actually left but at our level of vibration we dont see that. YET!!!!!

Love Chris

[GCS1103]

Is it me, or is it getting a little hot in here?


I'll go get some cold water for us all........

Chill pills for everyone!

Yes, jcocks- religion and politics will do it every time....;)

¤=[Post Update]=¤


I can see all the logic and profound arguments.

Omniverse -- one word freewill

At this level of illusion we can choose to love God or not, we can choose to adhere to the first two comandments or not.
We did not create hell--- the beings of the lower astral are that hell. They deny God, they feed on negative energy, cruelty selfishness etc.
They perpetrate that though the human ego = Edge God Out
The temptation of Jesus was very real.

So we must act in accordance with the reality we find ourselves in.
Its no good saying we are one without a commitment to find out the truth of it.
This is the perfect world for spiritual advancement --- many opportunities to let go of negative thinking and acts.
Free will, so many times we get to choose love or fear.

Our vibration fell with the taking of the apple, probably mainly a metaphor but an event or process happened that did lower consciousness.
By following the first two commandments, just being kind to all life no matter what including our own, we raise our consciousness and are well on the journey home to a place we never actually left but at our level of vibration we dont see that. YET!!!!!

Love Chris

Beautifully said, Chris.

[Omni]

I can see all the logic and profound arguments.

Omniverse -- one word freewill

I don't understand what you are even replying to with the free will comment here Chris.


At this level of illusion we can choose to love God or not, we can choose to adhere to the first two comandments or not.
Chris I don't agree. Firstly are you saying if we do not, we suffer in hellfire for an eternity? Secondly, "at this level of the illusion" we don't even know there is that choice a lot of the time!

Thirdly, the illusion is too strong for most of humanity, and we have programming too strong and/or diverse to all be the same way. the game is rigged in this part IMO. Some people are so logic brained they are atheists and science is their religion. These people CANNOT CHOOSE to love god or not. They do not KNOW god and are not capable of acknowledging he exists(I am not either given the proof levels). God made their brain set up, and made the balance not so had by many for creative and logic sided brains. God would know some people would not be capable of loving something they don't know. They are too proof oriented to identify god as you do, and simply are not capable of loving something they don't see as existent. Not to mention this place is so dysfunctional and crazy it's hard to love whatever the source of it is for some, as they don't see remotely close to the full beauty of it.

If god was a known presence here, I mean actively kickin it and teaching, THAT would be a choice to reject or love god. But as it stands, we can't even agree on what God is. How the hell can we love something we don't know?

Loving god has nothing to do with being sent to hell in the Abrahamic religions. It doesn't say "love God and you go to heaven", it says accept Jesus as your overlord and savior, and you go to heaven more or less... It says accept an EXACT belief system, and you get granted to heaven, although at the same time says you are a sinner so if you do things against the belief systems teachings, its fine and you goto heaven in other words we have a bunch of psychopaths with programming thinking they are "SINNERS" and it's FINE to do those things as long as they are repentant... And how can we love something we don't fully know? I am not fully capable of loving a pure psychopath..... And what the bible speaks of is a pure psychopath from the looks of it... care to debate ANY point I made in my first post as faulty? Can you?

We are not all given the faculties to love god. It's rigged. He knows it if he exists(I doubt it's male just saying he with normal mechanics).




We did not create hell--- the beings of the lower astral are that hell. They deny God, they feed on negative energy, cruelty selfishness etc.
Everyone has their own interpretation of this. How do you know yours is right? Faith? I bet you will say something like "God has made it clear to me" or "It's just something I'm wired to know" or "my heart tells me" or "my connection to god tells me".... However plenty of people worldwide would say the exact same thing but having totally different self-accepted realities.

And again, I'd like to hear from you Chris, what actions are deserving of ETERNAL suffering? No breaks or anything. SUFFERING forever. What deserves that? What respectable being would create that?

If you are arguing something other than Abrahamic religions, you should specify that. Because we'd be speaking apples and oranges.


They perpetrate that though the human ego = Edge God Out
So god gave them an angle to us. Is he just watching a really interesting reality TV show without any compassion? Firstly I need to know what I'm debating here chris. I can debate the commandment part, which seems to say you're christian. I somehow think you have rejected the bible as the sole words of God though, and accepted what I personally deem as truth, that our connection to God is WITHIN. Not a DEAD book, written by DEAD men. The word of God is LIVING. In ALL of us. And it's not so easily pidgeonholed into a one dimensional interpretation we humans have often IMHO.


The temptation of Jesus was very real.
Please explain what the temptation of Jesus is/was. I have not heard of this. Also please tell me how you know it's real...


So we must act in accordance with the reality we find ourselves in.
Its no good saying we are one without a commitment to find out the truth of it.
This is the perfect world for spiritual advancement --- many opportunities to let go of negative thinking and acts.
Free will, so many times we get to choose love or fear.

Chris I just don't think it's as simple as choosing love or fear. There are so many mechanics of the mind; programming, conditioning, genetics, higher self, soul, beliefs, illusions, mind control etc... I can personally tell you fear is a frequency that can be scientifically and irrevokably put into our consciousness... But my point is being who we are is not really a choice fully. We can choose to be true to ourselves but we are who we are with very little open source editting in most cases(in terms of capable of not theoretical potential), and that is not something that can be changed by choosing it. True, some do change who they are and the core programming, but this often takes events that could be seen as acts of god anyway... Huge events that inspire us to change, it's not so much free will there.... God gave us no clear programming way to do this. Psychiatry? ................ It's not useless but it's hardly enough to facilitate full free will of what we want out of ourselves.

And fear is THOROUGHLY programed into our genetics and subconscious/psyche.

It really is not so simple as to just choose fear or love. Do you really believe that? Who is going to CHOOSE fear instead of love for themselves...... Seriously, nobody on the earth will. Unless you are talking about stuff like movies, which I'm with you there. but it's still not simple there either. And the fear doesn't show people it has drawbacks in movies for most beyond what we feel and its over and we move on. So it's another thing that God has not clearly defined for us.


Our vibration fell with the taking of the apple, probably mainly a metaphor but an event or process happened that did lower consciousness.
By following the first two commandments, just being kind to all life no matter what including our own, we raise our consciousness and are well on the journey home to a place we never actually left but at our level of vibration we dont see that. YET!!!!!

Why are we suppose to be better beings than God is. God is not kind to all beings... Doesn't make sense to me. I'm with a previous poster. OMNIVERSAL COUP!!!!!!!!! (LOL just being light hearted and ditching my intellect and channeling of my OWN heart here and what i see as my own connection to god)


Love Chris

I could see how Avalonians consider debate getting hot. But I don't see it that way. Debate posts get very little thanks. However debates we get a LOT out of if done right.

Debate gone wrong? Take a look at passigs post to me, and my post to him. Debate gone right? I think chris and I are capable of that.

Love Omni

[RedeZra]

So basically if God's other son Satan(kind of) is powerful enough to mind control us in ways to be mislead(which is totally easy and I doubt you will deny that), those people go to an eternal never ending hellfire and damnation?

How is this the work of a being with any wisdom or enlightenment at all?

Answer me these PLEASE:

WHY would Satan not want us in heaven? He has enough beings to play with(if he exists, which I don't think so at all).

WHY would God, a loving and assumably understanding creator ALLOW Satan to cause innocent beings suffer FOREVER because something God lets run around misleads them? Makes no sense at all.

If just ONE being gets to suffer forever, and doesn't deserve it(which will tie into my next question), God is incompetant. That is literally and well defined as infinite injustice being done. After all suffering forever is an infinite amount.

If God will not tolerate humans from such dispicable acts, why does he tolerate Satan doing it to all of the universe?

What in your mind, is an action worthy of the punishment to suffer FOREVER? There is no lesson involved there. It's pure SPITE.

Have you ever liked a person that is hellbound? And do you honestly think they deserve to suffer forever? Would you think a Mansonite torturing them with saws and drugs and burning them etc, is just fine?

You can't hide behind the holy spirit dead end with these, so there is a logical debate to be had if you even bother replying(if you even can).

There is always a point in logical debate a christian or muslim of Jewish person draws the line, and refuses to even try to debate with reason, because the reason ENDS and it becomes impossible.

ok Omni you didn't write so much this time so I read it all and will answer


one must be pretty vile to end up in hell

meaning one doesn't go to hell for not beliving in God but for deliberate despicable acts that is against all that is decent and good


Satan became blinded by his brilliance and nurtured the thought that he could depose God because God has a form in heaven even though his consciousness is infinite

this finite created being thought he could depose the infinite Creator ?!


Satan was too proud to prostrate to Adam when God told him to

and that was the final straw that made him too heavy for heaven

and he fell to hell


a fitting place for a being of smokeless fire but not for souls


Satan is the king of hell and being a spirit he can come and go upon the earth as he pleases til God locks him up


Satan lost his privileges in heaven and because he didn't bow to Adam he fell from heaven to hell... so he hates mankind

but the real reason he fell is that he thought he could dethrone God and take His place

blinded by his brilliance he fell from heaven to hell


Adam was a direct creation of God formed from the adamah or earth

and because he too fell from grace by the machinations of Satan

we the children of Adam and Eve are under the influence of Satan as well as God


because of the passion of Christ the Father looks to earth through his Son

and since his Son is full of mercy he intercedes on our behalf together with his Mother

this is not make believe but our history and tradition for almost 2000 years


but now as Satan the idol of the illuminati has infested himself as the governing power of so many governments

expect nothing but trickery and lies from the Establishment and their minions


the battle is on between the powers of good and the forces of evil

and our souls are at stake


we need to pick right and choose good

[greybeard]

Yes omniverse we could debate easily without any rancor or ill feeling which is the way it is with you and me.
The reason I used the word free will with your name is that I feel it answers some of your questions and statement though not all.
God does not force people to love--- what kind of love would that be?
Free will prevails, then hopefully eventually enough people become unselfish to the point where we really do see our neighbor as our selves and treat our neighbor as we wish to be treated ourselves, then the collective consciousness will rise significantly to the point where we do have a sense of oneness.

You are right I escaped religious upbringing, I like reading the enlightened sages and am there fore influenced by them.

As a performing alcoholic I went through living suicidal hell--- it seemed eternal, it went on for years.
I had to hit my personal rock bottom before I asked for help and had enough humility to listen to sober alcoholics in AA, there I found a Loving God of my understanding.
I think the human race may have to hit rock bottom before they ask for help.
I may not have answered your questions fully omniverse but the essence is there in my own words.
I know there is a loving God because on quite a few occasions after getting sober I faced death, once in the Indian Ocean one breath away from drowning and after asking God for help I was rescued.
I can only give personal experience but I believe if anyone sincerely asks, or as in my signature attempts to align with Gods will, their life situation will improve radically.

Love Chris


PS the God portrayed by a lot of religious teaching was a psychopath, a tyrant, but that was in their mind and that misunderstanding was cleared by the teaching of Jesus which was also misinterpreted.

[Omni]

ok Omni you didn't write so much this time so I read it all and will answer

red I don't see answers here to many of my questions. Just preaching of christianity. You failed to answer most of my questions, and left it extremely vague. Although I do respect your attempt.... Not trying to put you down. After all you are just trying to share the truth(in your view), so that is respectable since you have no attacks... However I will not be easy on you in terms of my intellect...

Try this, quote each paragraph I presented a point in(separate points if done well), and clearly answer them all. I'm not ordering you to to be clear, as I hope no one would think that. But you clearly obfuscated clear debate(not sure if deliberate), and went with the vague scripture rehashing.



one must be pretty vile to end up in hell
For a debate to work well, you have to address every point I make. Much like I did to chris or any debate I get into. Ignoring my stronger points only points to weaknesses in your own side.

So you are saying for having caveman barbarian genetics, and traumatic childhoods that have dynamics of abuse, and abused turned into abusers often, that is what is punishable by eternal hellfire and suffering?

If you ignore many points, respond to this one(AKa quote it specifically and show me your respponse so i can know what you are responding to plz):

Do you or do you not accept the bible as the words of God. All of them. Because what you say right there, is not what the bible says. A baptist(who actually follows the bible as the words of god), would say you are a cherry picking christian for that. And as sad as it is for me to agree with them, I do agree with that. If you believe that, you are not christian by my standards....

The bible does not say vile people go to hell. It says EVERYONE who does not accept Jesus as their lord and savior(AKA christians) goes to hell. In other words buddhists go to hell. Do buddhists not go to hell ??

Psychopaths, the pure ones, are born that way. I've seen it. They microwave cats, stab people with scissors, burn ants(although thats not a big sign just alone), abuse dogs, suffocate hamsters in bags and stuff like that since little kids. Ask anyone who knows psychopaths history and met a lot of kids, they were BORN that way.

So another I would like you to quote specifically and address:

Does a being deserve to suffer for an eternity for being BORN a certain way?

And if you truly believe just because someone is "pretty vile", that merits suffering FOREVER, I mean FOREVER..... That is , to put it timidly, a severe case of cold heartedness.



meaning one doesn't go to hell for not beliving in God but for deliberate despicable acts that is against all that is decent and good

So you aren't a christian? Because christianity says, well, not that at all. I really don't see the logic of identifying inaccuracies, and BLATANT ones in the bible, and seeing it as the words of god. To each their own though. I do like debating this stuff... Its in my CORE to debate this stuff. Its part of why I'm HERE. Not so much for the people debating a lot, because that often is too stubborn for progress. However people viewing, they dont have the ego investment and can see more clearly when one side is contrived at times(just in general, not specifically applying that to you in saying that).


and that was the final straw that made him too heavy for heaven

and he fell to hell

Satan seems like the pimp and god of hell. So it doesn't seem like he minds. lol In fact I bet he likes it MORESO, maybe he is brilliant. He has more freedom to be himself now doesn't he? I can't blame him for his actions then... Because he cant do whatever he wants in heaven can he?



Satan lost his privileges in heaven and because he didn't bow to Adam he fell from heaven to hell... so he hates mankind

This is where I feel I have clear logic that shows this as false, in a very high probability. Unless one denies the vastness of the universe. First analyze this quote a little more if you will:


Satan lost his privileges in heaven and because he didn't bow to Adam[earth human] he fell from heaven to hell...
So basically this is the type of stuff that leads christians to think we are the center of the universe, and no life exists beyond earth.

What are the chances this gigantic universal overlord, who is the evil on quintillions(or w/e a high number is lol) of worlds or more, and somehow the one were on, is the one he gets cast down to hell from? Any care to do the numbers? Say there is a trillion planets with societies out there(which is a VERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRY modest number for the whole universe)..

That makes it a 1 in a trillion chance, that this event happened on our planet. Not exactly good odds there IMO ........... In other words it is a 0.0000000000001% chance (if i did my math right, no guarantees i did but the change is so minimal to perception it doesnt matter).

Really? This is why people like Churchill hid UFO files from the UK to preserve christianity. What major truth, fears another major truth(small truths can obfuscate bigger ones, but major ones dont conflict IMO)? Honestly.... The truth will set us free from these dogmatic belief systems. And the truth WILL be revealed with time IMHO. Just a matter of time



blinded by his brilliance he fell from heaven to hell
No it sounds like he did good for himself to me. He became his own god of his own realm. Kind of looks like he got a promotion to me. hehehe :cool:





......
.......
.........

but now as Satan the idol of the illuminati has infested himself as the governing power of so many governments

Well I do have respect for you sharing your beliefs without spite red. It does speak of you in terms of development regardless of our belief differences. Thank you for trying to explain it to me. I still think it's junk but I don't think you are junk :) And I apologize for my post to you in the thread you joked about herbalists getting burnt as witches. It was in poor taste(kind of a reflection of your action IMO which isn't right), but you really hit one of my triggers there...


expect nothing but trickery and lies from the Establishment and their minions

Ohhhh none of us disagree there buddy.



the battle is on between the powers of good and the forces of evil

and our souls are at stake


we need to pick right and choose good

I dont see it that way. I see good and evil being deliberately designed into our situation, so we can have more diversity, and have things to overcome and transcend. After all, you cannot identify heaven as heaven, without hell. You cannot have relativity in good, without a bad to contrast it to. You would not respect good tastes as much if they were all that good. there needs to be variances in things to have the multidimensional nature of our existence... We don't need to pick and choose every life IMO. Although I do like when people become servants of go[o]d(the non egoic ones full of themselves etc).

To have the levels of depth and definement of diversity, we need evil to exist. So its not some thing that is a rogue squadron from god IMHO. Its just the early mechanics of the universe and nature, and humans transcending brutalities of nature(which were misidentified as some control freak psychopathic god doing it).

We are all composed of the same wide ranging spectrum of energies. And the universe has no flaws that do not have ties to bigger perfections IMHO. I simply reject anything but perfection in my belief system for the higher mechanics of the universe. Too much about the story of christianity(which is more a fairy tale IMO but an extremely ODD one)... for me to accept anyway. And if the shadow government can design a program AI to mimick me to RIDICULOUS detail, no doubt an ascendant god knows me very well. If he did not create me(I use the word god very loosely, not some being, but possibly one. it changes, in other words when i say god its holographic), it knows me fully, if it is capable of knowing anyone...

Just my views but I'd like to see any christian debate me on this fully. I mean point for point. Not a single one has been able to my whole life minus the ones who can accept a psychopathic god as their god(AKA the baptists).

And if you do not accept the bible as the full, totally fully accurate, words of God, you are not a christian IMHO. You are trying to be a spitting image of Jesus. Who wasn't christian either.

[KosmicKat]

one must be pretty vile to end up in hell
According to the fundamentalist christianity of my youth, good deeds won't get you into heaven, and bad deeds won't qualify you for hell. The only thing that matters is whether you accept the sacrifice of God's only begotten son in your place. While I've made an effort to hold on to what I once believed, I find it harder and harder to do so.

Permit me to ask you how you know you are one of the elect; one of the preachers I studied in my youth (I forget if it was Spurgeon or Finney) opined that someone who is convinced of their own righteousness is as far from it as they could possibly be.

And has anyone else ever noticed the confusion surrounding the afterlife as described in the bible in contrast to the popular religious culture? Hel was originally the norse underworld. When the dragon was cast down from heaven, he was thrown to earth (Rev. 12:9) - whether or not the dragon was Satan is not specified.

[GCS1103]

Hi, Omniverse-

Hey, buddy. I love reading your posts and threads, but I think you picked a topic that is very, very personal to all of us. Some things that we believe in our hearts cannot be debated point by point. We have all, by this time in our lives, found our belief system and no debates, no matter how interesting or well-intentioned will change what we feel inside. Just my opinion and this applies just to me.

You defintiely make avalon interesting and I am looking forward to more of your threads.;)

[New Dawn]

Hi, Omniverse-

Hey, buddy. I love reading your posts and threads, but I think you picked a topic that is very, very personal to all of us. Some things that we believe in our hearts cannot be debated point by point. We have all, by this time in our lives, found our belief system and no debates, no matter how interesting or well-intentioned will change what we feel inside. Just my opinion and this applies just to me.

You defintiely make avalon interesting and I am looking forward to more of your threads.;)

Hi mate, I agree that these debates will change little for people, but I still think they're worth having. I'm impressed with how everyone is coping with the conflicting beliefs. If nothing else, it highlights that we can still get along, regardless of if you think my belief system is full of bull****, or if I think yours is!

Hey, I think I was being positive there...I'm gonna make a big cup of tea to celebrate!

[Omni]

Hi, Omniverse-

Hey, buddy. I love reading your posts and threads, but I think you picked a topic that is very, very personal to all of us. Some things that we believe in our hearts cannot be debated point by point. We have all, by this time in our lives, found our belief system and no debates, no matter how interesting or well-intentioned will change what we feel inside. Just my opinion and this applies just to me.

You defintiely make avalon interesting and I am looking forward to more of your threads.;)

I totally respect your right to choose your reality and absolutely respect your dignity in not judging me or disliking me for having my at times strong opinions about how these religions have affected our planet.

If I was here during all those times, I've probably been tortured and killed by these religions my own share of times. So please forgive my aggressiveness at times in debating these things if you can.

The INSTANT I went to church, and witnessed what happened in them, I had deep feelings in me... And these feelings were of people being mislead by lies. I identified them immediately with my own heart. So what I guess this shows, rather irrefutably due to our conflicting heart testimony, is the heart can either mislead us at times, or we are misinterpreting very strong programming as our hearts.

I was very psychic as a kid. One time I even burst into the realm of fully hearing complex thoughts of people, and interacted with them, this could have been synthetic as was claimed to me at one time, but I no longer have the hypnotic daze to believe that claim. Anyway, I felt down to my core, which was common back then, the false god these religions put into the hearts of men. And firstly I'll say, I do not apply these mechanics to you I will speak of next, but can you not agree with it? This:

When you worship a god that is a mass murderer of people who do not follow him(not vaguely believing in a creator, an EXACT religion), does that not corrupt the hearts of men into doing the same acts upon the people he deems infidels or similar and negate any thinking that it is wrong? And is this not a flaw in humanity? The god in the bible is asking us to be better people than him..... Unless you consider casting vegan buddhists to hell righteous(which I'm absolutely sure you dont).

Most christians are on the right path from what I've seen IMO(in person, I'm not counting the baptists in that lol). So it is not a bad thing for some. But for others it is a dire plague upon humanity and seemingly a vast tool of evil forces manipulating us.


Honestly I'm getting tired of this thread. lol. And I sense others are too. So I would not mind it being closed if a mod did that. Although I am curious what this would evolve into, and am curious how long it would go on. I just am being mind controlled to lose interest in it atm.

I can tell by the amount of thanks debating gets, Avalon does not like debates much. But it's a part of me... And it doesn't matter if we convert each other to our own beliefs, debate gives us a chance to explore and discover/verify our beliefs moreso. So it can be beneficial. It's when we judge each other for debating and demonize our opposition is when it becomes rancid.

Take a look at chris and I's interaction. It was without any ill will towards each other and we both were able to exact our point of view for anyone to gain from should it be beneficial in any way(i'm not saying it always is).

I just like debating. It's one thing I'm pre-built to do kind of. lol

[Agape]

You know Omniverse,

this is very ancient paradigm , as old as humanity on Earth is ..and that's couple of millions years . Extend your consciousness to the true human history, the denied history and try to imagine at least ..what all these people had been through together with their religions.

This is an old paradigm and every true seer would tell you that God did not invent religion, religions or churches , people invented them . So if you speak about psychopathology don't forget whose is the fault.

Religions ( I don't mean God, Spirit or -spirituality ) are human invention. They're response to global ( or rather local to be honest ) societal, cultural , historical paradigm of their times .

Realize that no religion started 'out of blue', out of sudden . Before Hebrews left Egypt ..Egypt itself was very 'religious' .
It followed complicated hierarchy of Gods and demons and taught heavens and hells and afterlife and path to redemption.

When Moses received his prophecy on Sinai mountain it was a totally fresh and own vision and belonged to him and 'his' people, it was freed from Egyptian Gods yet ..contained so many similar , guiding features .

He and his followers attempted to rewrite human history once again, from the scratch .

Since then, they've all being waiting for 'second coming' , the orthodoxy of church was rebuilt once again with another hierarchy and rules.

You have the right to ask whose vision it was . Whose hierarchy. Whose church.


So if someone claims to be a messiah and people accept and follow his 'vision of God' and follow it as a dogma, it's still people making it, not God.
Who ever claims to have seen God , come from him and talk to him..he's still human ..or can be an alien , I don't want to address this right now .

You need human mind to envision the order because humans are asking for the over-self and over-sight , so one who comes in the time of crisis of the old leading system and strives hard enough to receive a new vision he becomes the next prophet and so it goes ..till eternity..


The same thing happened when Jesus came and well enough, Jesus was completely blown out with his vision of love and God , he did not care about churches.
He wanted one great human brotherhood without boundaries .

The same has happened in Buddhas time . Buddha as a matter of fact did not teach anything that would not exist in Vedas previously ..yet he realized the 'great vision' , original to him and his time and needs of people.

India is told to be ruled by Brahmanism totally that time, fallen to rules and castes and hierarchies instead of awakened spirit.


And that all is very tiny time-frame of human history .


The denial of what preceded these recent cultures, that there were many such cultures /human civilisations with their unique 'religions' and prophets , with unique history ..creates false idea about our times being 'universal' .

Most people are so limited as not being able to rise above the horizon of their times and see to past and future but I want to believe that at this crossroad of history they have good chance to do that .


More next time ..if you want to know




:pray:

[GCS1103]

Hi, Omniverse-

Hey, buddy. I love reading your posts and threads, but I think you picked a topic that is very, very personal to all of us. Some things that we believe in our hearts cannot be debated point by point. We have all, by this time in our lives, found our belief system and no debates, no matter how interesting or well-intentioned will change what we feel inside. Just my opinion and this applies just to me.

You defintiely make avalon interesting and I am looking forward to more of your threads.;)

I totally respect your right to choose your reality and absolutely respect your dignity in not judging me or disliking me for having my at times strong opinions about how these religions have affected our planet.

If I was here during all those times, I've probably been tortured and killed by these religions my own share of times. So please forgive my aggressiveness at times in debating these things if you can.

The INSTANT I went to church, and witnessed what happened in them, I had deep feelings in me... And these feelings were of people being mislead by lies. I identified them immediately with my own heart. So what I guess this shows, rather irrefutably due to our conflicting heart testimony, is the heart can either mislead us at times, or we are misinterpreting very strong programming as our hearts.

I was very psychic as a kid. One time I even burst into the realm of fully hearing complex thoughts of people, and interacted with them, this could have been synthetic as was claimed to me at one time, but I no longer have the hypnotic daze to believe that claim. Anyway, I felt down to my core, which was common back then, the false god these religions put into the hearts of men. And firstly I'll say, I do not apply these mechanics to you I will speak of next, but can you not agree with it? This:

When you worship a god that is a mass murderer of people who do not follow him(not vaguely believing in a creator, an EXACT religion), does that not corrupt the hearts of men into doing the same acts upon the people he deems infidels or similar and negate any thinking that it is wrong? And is this not a flaw in humanity? The god in the bible is asking us to be better people than him..... Unless you consider casting vegan buddhists to hell righteous(which I'm absolutely sure you dont).

Most christians are on the right path from what I've seen IMO(in person, I'm not counting the baptists in that lol). So it is not a bad thing for some. But for others it is a dire plague upon humanity and seemingly a vast tool of evil forces manipulating us.


Honestly I'm getting tired of this thread. lol. And I sense others are too. So I would not mind it being closed if a mod did that. Although I am curious what this would evolve into, and am curious how long it would go on. I just am being mind controlled to lose interest in it atm.

I can tell by the amount of thanks debating gets, Avalon does not like debates much. But it's a part of me... And it doesn't matter if we convert each other to our own beliefs, debate gives us a chance to explore and discover/verify our beliefs moreso. So it can be beneficial. It's when we judge each other for debating and demonize our opposition is when it becomes rancid.

Take a look at chris and I's interaction. It was without any ill will towards each other and we both were able to exact our point of view for anyone to gain from should it be beneficial in any way(i'm not saying it always is).

I just like debating. It's one thing I'm pre-built to do kind of. lol

Hey Omniverse-

I do agree that you debate without any ill will, which is why you are so likeable.. I like to debate too- it's part of my career in life (lawyer). ;)

All I can do to answer you, is to just tell you how I feel- I am a Jewish Christian (Messianic Jew) who does not go to church or temple as part of my life. I am not into organized religion and I have the utmost respect for everyone's beliefs. I am the product of a "mixed" religious marriage, so there was always a balance to what I was taught.

I completely identify with Chris and his experience and how he developed his beliefs. Years ago when my Mom was dying of cancer, I found it almost impossible to deal with day to day life. I moved her into my home and took care of her because she did not want to die in a hospital. During this time in my life I experienced a kind of emptiness that is hard to explain. So I did something that I never did before- I prayed. I can tell you that I felt "filled" with love and calmness. That feeling never left me even after my Mom passed away. I identify what happened to me as my interaction with God. I will always feel this way and so, you see, I can't debate what I feel. For me, I am never empty or alone anymore.

[Ernie Nemeth]

I do not understand the point here. Half the group wants the other half to think and use logic. The other half wants its counterpart to drop logic and feel the truth.

This is the dichtomomy, the duality. That is the greatest tool of the dark side. Religion is divisive, as are politics - because that is what they are designed to create (even simply by definition).

Us and them. That is the evil. All of us together as one. That is truth.


Another thing, God is the totality, the complete, the finished. God encompasses All - good and evil. God is an idea, a thought. Only lesser gods play at control - God is in control.

And about Adam and Eve. I heard somewhere, I can't right now remember where and I always meant to confirm this (which I now will do), that Adam fell into a deep sleep. And nowhere in the bible does it say he ever woke up again.

This is a dream the incomplete dream, until they are ready to wake and become whole and complete again.

[Lord Sidious]

it's not possible to pierce through the many layers of illusion if one is not a Buddha

Are you calling yourself a buddha? Because you have no humility in explaining how good you are at this thing called self interpreted reality...

This usually means that someone has not discovered themselves wrong much in life, and are full of illusions since birth, when so sure one is a self-proclaimed expert at reality in my experiences.

I'm not a Buddha but I am an elect

Says who? You?

[PurpleLama]

I had a funny experience, which I will share. Late one winter evening, I was driving to visit some friends in another city. I was having a thought, and I said to God, "if you are *really* there, then give me a sign." At that exact moment, the timing chain on my old mustang broke, leaving me to walk five miles in the freezing cold whilst contemplating the obvious sense of humor of the divine.

I've my own ideas on the institution of monotheism on this planet, which I shall reserve for it's own future thread.

[greybeard]

Our destination is chosen moment by us by our action thoughts words deeds, no judgment.
From that perspective we elect where we go.
We elect ourselves, everyone of us.
While we might not be aware our Higher Self is, you could call it conscience.
I dont think in terms of right or wrong now but I do endeavor to see what is appropriate moment by moment.tThat is my version of what is appropriate, I may act inappropriately in the eyes of another, but they are not using my context.

It gets beyond words as really, now, I am aware of what Chris does-- I see the fingers move on the key board but I dont actually do it.
I have perhaps a concept in mind that I want to share but I have no idea what I am going to type-- it just happens.
If you really become aware you will see that is what is happening with everyone.
That is consciousness at play--- there is only one Self, that Sel is within waiting to be discovered.
Belief in the old testament god keeps you from discovering your own Divinity, the focus is on a god out there that you have to appease or else you go to hell.
Jesus was clear--- look under a stone and you will find me--- the Father and I are one--- the kingdom of heaven is within etc

God is form, formless both and neither. The mind cant get round that.
We are God and existed before all universes and will exist after all universes dissolve.
Indian sages say there never was creation or dissolution--- nothing happens.
Its indras dream.
Consciousness at play the cosmic dance
That is ultimate truth.

There will always be paradoxes in spiritual information as it can only point to Truth.
As GCS1103 alluded to when the love of God fills your emptiness it is unmistakable and beyond words.

However we have to act out our part in the play as though it is very real and it certainly seems so.

Love Chris

.

[Agape]

Adam and Eve is another old story that relates to very remote times of human origins . I know the truth and it does not make me much better than you are . People were not 'created on Earth'. It's a legend invented to make people feel special about this planet and themselves in their current form .

The truth is ..in another thread ..

But with respect to your Abrahamic discussion, look at what people had done with teachings of Jesus .

It comes number of times in the Biblical records that he said : I'm the Son of Man. And at another place 'I'm Son of God'.

He did not say 'I'm the only Son of God' . He said : ''Seek for the Kingdom of Heaven in you else you won't find it ''. Search for ME in YOU.

If Jesus was the only Son of God ..where would everyone else come from ?


The Source of Life, the Creator of Living Beings created all .

Jesus did not say :''Create an image of me and worship it'' . Create a totem of the cross and bow to it.
Neither Buddha had said anything about creating his statues and worshipping them and calling it practice .


People keep searching for secrets in holy Bible and other scriptures when it's all so obvious .


They want to find some other Gods behind it , some kind of conspiracy . You can well stick with one teaching, one religion and if you have pure mind you can attain knowledge , enlightenment, realisation from within .



...:angel:

[Ernie Nemeth]

All books have some truth. No book has all the truth.

IMHO

[Snowbird]

These God threads are always filled with excitement. But since we are having animated discussion about the Abrahamic God, I think that the views of researcher Ralph Ellis will be appropriate here.

I have several of Ellis' books in my library. The in depth investigation that he has spent years researching, shines a very different light onto the biblical characters and arrives at some pretty shocking conclusions.

King Abraham
by Ralph Ellis

If I indicated that biblical Abraham was a pharaoh of Egypt, would it appear to be an utterly absurd figment of a deranged mind? Initially that may seem so, but this is only because we have grown so used to the orthodox ecclesiastical creed that we have forgotten that the Biblical Abraham was in fact a very powerful man. Josephus, the first century Jewish historian says of Abraham:

Pharaoh Necho, king of Egypt at the time, descended on this land with an immense army and seized Sarah the Princess, mother of our nation. And what did our forefather Abraham do? Did he avenge the insult by force of arms? Yet he had three hundred and eighteen officers under him, with unlimited manpower at his disposal!

Three hundred and eighteen officers, not men, under his command, it was obviously quite a sizable army that Abraham had at his disposal - possibly running into the tens of thousands.

The patriarchs in the Bible are known as being shepherds, as I have just indicated, in fact the Bible is quite specific about this point. Joseph's family are asked by pharaoh:

What is your occupation? And they said ... Thy servants are shepherds, both we, and also our fathers.

This point is not just interesting, it is fundamental to understanding what the Bible is trying to tell us. For it just so happens that a whole dynasty of pharaohs were known as shepherds! These were the pharaohs who, in the historical record, had 'invaded' northern Egypt during the 14th to 16th dynasties and these peoples were known as the Hyksos, a term which translates as 'Shepherd King'.

Because the throne name of the pharaoh Sheshi is none other than Mayebre or Mamayebra. This name not only sounds like Abraham, with the 'M' displaced to the end, it is quite possibly another very simple and possibly deliberate mistranslation of it.

Mam-aye-bra ~ Ay-bra-ham

What better way to hide the name of a pharaoh, than simply moving the first syllable to the end of the name. So subtle and yet so effective was the ploy, that the truth lay hidden for thousands of years - Abraham was a pharaoh of Egypt. The Bible seems to admit this possibility, even if theologians will not; of Abraham it says:

For a father of many nations I have made thee. And I shall make thee exceedingly fruitful ... and kings shall come out of thee.

The true royal status of Abraham can be seen once more, it is just as the biblical texts tell us, "... and kings shall come out of thee." Now the ma'at, the truth, can be told; the Biblical patriarchs were indeed powerful people, they were pharaohs of Egypt.

http://www.edfu-books.com/abraham.html

[RedeZra]

one must be pretty vile to end up in hell

So you are saying for having caveman barbarian genetics, and traumatic childhoods that have dynamics of abuse, and abused turned into abusers often, that is what is punishable by eternal hellfire and suffering?


fresh from creation our ancestors were higly intelligent and civilised and not barbaric cavemens at all

that's just another lie of the Establishment... why believe them when it is the father of lies that are ruling them ?

because of natural inherent corruption in nature humans have not evolved but devolved physically and mentally

it's just recently that we are technologically catching up with our forefathers




Do you or do you not accept the bible as the words of God. All of them. Because what you say right there, is not what the bible says.

The bible does not say vile people go to hell. It says EVERYONE who does not accept Jesus as their lord and savior(AKA christians) goes to hell. In other words buddhists go to hell. Do buddhists not go to hell ??

how can only those who believe in Christ escape hell when millions of people lived and died before Jesus Christ was born ?

it's not logical to assert that all who lived before Christ have gone to hell


the wages of sin is death and life is in the blood

that's just the way it is and that's why we die


but God loved the world stenched in blood and sin so much that He gave his Son as a perfect atonement and reparation between God and humanity

and the Son shed his blood and water died and went in spirit down to hell and took the keys from Satan

Jesus Christ overcame Satan and has the keys to heaven and hell


so we are most fortunate that we have a champion in Christ as He has the power to save even souls in hell

so God made it easy for us to achieve heaven by cultivating a relation with Jesus Christ


if we want to reach heaven the hard way then we have a formidable enemy in Satan

so if we have no friends in heaven then it's tuff to overcome Satan by ourselves

[42]

one must be pretty vile to end up in hell

So you are saying for having caveman barbarian genetics, and traumatic childhoods that have dynamics of abuse, and abused turned into abusers often, that is what is punishable by eternal hellfire and suffering?


fresh from creation our ancestors were higly intelligent and civilised and not barbaric cavemens at all

that's just another lie of the Establishment... why believe them when it is the father of lies that are ruling them ?

because of natural inherent corruption in nature humans have not evolved but devolved physically and mentally

it's just recently that we are technologically catching up with our forefathers




Do you or do you not accept the bible as the words of God. All of them. Because what you say right there, is not what the bible says.

The bible does not say vile people go to hell. It says EVERYONE who does not accept Jesus as their lord and savior(AKA christians) goes to hell. In other words buddhists go to hell. Do buddhists not go to hell ??






Jesus Christ overcame Satan and has the keys to heaven and hell


so we are most fortunate that we have a champion in Christ as He has the power to save even souls in hell

so God made it easy for us to achieve heaven by cultivating a relation with Jesus Christ




I'm struggling with the need for a middleman, I've got a pretty good dialogue going with my own God, not sure I need anyone else to help with the communication part.

[RedeZra]

I'm struggling with the need for a middleman, I've got a pretty good dialogue going with my own God, not sure I need anyone else to help with the communication part.

that is fine

I'm just adamant about the historicity and divinity of Jesus Christ

[42]

I'm struggling with the need for a middleman, I've got a pretty good dialogue going with my own God, not sure I need anyone else to help with the communication part.

that is fine

I'm just adamant about the historicity and divinity of Jesus Christ

so you say

[RedeZra]

I'm struggling with the need for a middleman, I've got a pretty good dialogue going with my own God, not sure I need anyone else to help with the communication part.

that is fine

I'm just adamant about the historicity and divinity of Jesus Christ

so you say

to actively deny Jesus Christ and work against Him is not a good idea

[42]

I'm struggling with the need for a middleman, I've got a pretty good dialogue going with my own God, not sure I need anyone else to help with the communication part.

that is fine

I'm just adamant about the historicity and divinity of Jesus Christ

so you say

to actively deny Jesus Christ and work against Him is not a good idea

Yep... we know you are adamant on that point... I'm just not sure i'm on this forum to get preached at. It's either the wrong forum for me.... or you.

[RedeZra]

I'm struggling with the need for a middleman, I've got a pretty good dialogue going with my own God, not sure I need anyone else to help with the communication part.

that is fine

I'm just adamant about the historicity and divinity of Jesus Christ

so you say

to actively deny Jesus Christ and work against Him is not a good idea

Yep... we know you are adamant on that point... I'm just not sure i'm on this forum to get preached at. It's either the wrong forum for me.... or you.

this is a topic about the Father of Jesus Christ


I don't reply everytime someone smears Him but sometimes I do

to put things in perspective

[42]

I'm struggling with the need for a middleman, I've got a pretty good dialogue going with my own God, not sure I need anyone else to help with the communication part.

that is fine

I'm just adamant about the historicity and divinity of Jesus Christ

so you say

to actively deny Jesus Christ and work against Him is not a good idea

Yep... we know you are adamant on that point... I'm just not sure i'm on this forum to get preached at. It's either the wrong forum for me.... or you.

this is a topic about the Father of Jesus Christ


I don't reply everytime someone smears Him but sometimes I do

to put things in perspective

re-reading the posts.. and don't see any smears - just requests not to be preached at. But regardless, you can not draw me in to a pointless argument about your need for adamancy. This forum is for open minded debate, not obsessive perspectives. Goodnight and sleep well.

[RedeZra]

I'm struggling with the need for a middleman, I've got a pretty good dialogue going with my own God, not sure I need anyone else to help with the communication part.

that is fine

I'm just adamant about the historicity and divinity of Jesus Christ

so you say

to actively deny Jesus Christ and work against Him is not a good idea

Yep... we know you are adamant on that point... I'm just not sure i'm on this forum to get preached at. It's either the wrong forum for me.... or you.

this is a topic about the Father of Jesus Christ


I don't reply everytime someone smears Him but sometimes I do

to put things in perspective

This forum is for open minded debate, not obsessive perspectives. Goodnight and sleep well.

if you don't stand for something you'll fall for anything ; )

[loveandgratitude]

OMNIVERSE - QUOTE - It really is not so simple as to just choose fear or love. Do you really believe that? Who is going to CHOOSE fear instead of love for themselves...... Seriously, nobody on the earth will

You are angry and I can understand that. We have all been there. The next stage after anger is forgivness. An extremely hard step to take but vital nonetheless.

You are correct, who would in their right mind choose fear over love. But who is in their right mind. We are all victims of some MK ULTRA mind control experiement. The less of these is TV, emotional trauma, abuse, abusive religions, education, grading up the scale to mind chips.

When someone is suffering from trauma, or PTS they are disempowered. That is why the evil ones go to great trouble to create it.

Our job is to move through it to a place of love. Love is all powerful. Love is God. Spirit, The All Knowing whatever words you like to use. A way to experience this is to ask for the experience. This experience melts all anger.

Maybe this is a mind control experince to see if we can move through anger to love on this planet. Or maybe it is karma. We have to experience what we have done to others.

When we understand that it was wrong, ask for forgiveness we free ourselves from our self-imposed prisons of agony. The key is in our hands all the time.

[Marsila]

The only person i ever heard talking about this subject, that came really close to making it clear was George Kavasilas.

I can't find the video but he basically said (i think d-day if my memory isn't playing tricks again posted it on the spirituality forum a while ago), but in a few words, there is God and god. God is eternal love, owns this universe knows it is difficult to be him, but wants to give us all a chance so he created this world for us, so that we can experience everything from extreme evil to extreme good, and still try to mantains our spirituality and our loving center no matter what happens.

god is lucifer he is the god of this planet we are on, but he didn't make it, it's just a contract with God (the real creator) that he is to play the role of the most evil of all evil, so that we understand what it takes for such a lonely thing (uni=one=alone) to still have an never ending or beginning reservoir of love for every single particle or atom in the universe.

Moses, Jesus, and even Mohammed were all enlightened souls that really did come, however the second right after each of them died, the things they were preaching were hijacked, and replaced with empty words by people that really don't want the masses to be empowered. Jehovah is the god these hijackers talk about and according to GK and other sources, he is just a 4th dimension being, his power comes from what people think of him and not what he really is. part of lucifers plan, or else if we all realize how strong we are and can connect with oneness, the real God can you imagine how everything will change?

just don't be fooled by all the evil going on. God is love, and that includes loving you despite what is going around.

[Seikou-Kishi]

Great post, L&G. It's true that people should learn to move past anger and fear and into love. Some people don't seem ready to do that, though, because they all seem stuck on this awful "me-vs-you" thing, but for those of us who have become sickened by this 10-course meal of soul-decaying tripe, love is there and we can choose to advance. I would rather the whole world chose that, but for some it doesn't seem to be all that appealing, which is sad (to me).

[loveandgratitude]

Great post, L&G. It's true that people should learn to move past anger and fear and into love. Some people don't seem ready to do that, though, because they all seem stuck on this awful "me-vs-you" thing, but for those of us who have become sickened by this 10-course meal of soul-decaying tripe, love is there and we can choose to advance. I would rather the whole world chose that, but for some it doesn't seem to be all that appealing, which is sad (to me).

When we see what is happening on a daily basis throught out the world, the wars, the murder and the injustice, we move back into anger. A human condition. When we see the wars we are again being traumatized. We move back into a place of powerlessness. Then comes anger again, then comes fogiveness and the merry go round continues.

It is an oscillation of balance. Ying Yang. Night Day. We are all going to suffer from this whirling of emotions. Ebb and Flow. A High Tide and a Low Tide. Only a great master has conquered the frality of the human condition.

FEAR HAS TO BE OVERCOME. The battle takes places within each invidual. Through Free Will the mental law of neutralisation will help to a certain degree. Helps with polarity. Counteracting the Law of Cause and Effect. The effects we must experience.

No easy feat.

[RedeZra]

These God threads are always filled with excitement. But since we are having animated discussion about the Abrahamic God, I think that the views of researcher Ralph Ellis will be appropriate here.

I have several of Ellis' books in my library. The in depth investigation that he has spent years researching, shines a very different light onto the biblical characters and arrives at some pretty shocking conclusions.



Ellis thinks that Jesus was King Arthur of England and great-grandson of Cleopatra VII

so I wouldn't base my believes on what he writes ; )

[Seikou-Kishi]

These God threads are always filled with excitement. But since we are having animated discussion about the Abrahamic God, I think that the views of researcher Ralph Ellis will be appropriate here.

I have several of Ellis' books in my library. The in depth investigation that he has spent years researching, shines a very different light onto the biblical characters and arrives at some pretty shocking conclusions.



Ellis thinks that Jesus was King Arthur of England and great-grandson of Cleopatra VII

so I wouldn't base my believes on what he writes ; )

Why not? Christianity is based on the opinions of people writing millenia ago... is age credibility now? Someone's stab in the dark becomes more believable because they're dead and beyond questioning? Lol.

[Houman]

I hope that this will clarify things a bit


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ4WRCJqv3Q


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhv-XCff4_I

In essence we are living in a big virtual reality frame (and this has been tested in many Universities), in essence "things" (even macroscopic) are just interacting probability fields until you look at them; and "the other side" is no different. Now concerning the deception/prison ... unfortunately it is not limited to this world... and there appears to be a battle at the "creation" level (to change the nature of this reality, this is why you see so much pressure towards the debasement and degeneration of human behavior).

Houman

PS: I wonder if RedeZra is Russ Dizdar


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7449168936702962073

Russ: If this is you, I think that you have many pieces of the puzzle (with respect to Satanism, your experience and battles with it) but not all... (if this is you please say so that we may have a frank discussion)

[Cjay]

I am not religious, though I was raised as a Christian. My rebellious, deeply inquisitive and non-sheeple attitude saw my priest humiliated (because I asked embarrassing questions he could not answer) and myself expelled at the age of 12. I never went back.

I abhor the phrase "God fearing". Why should people fear our all-loving/forgiving creator unless S/He is a really mean punisher and destroyer and those "God fearing" people have been so bad they have real reason to fear retribution?

[ElAriAN]

If one was to have visited another world and found beings there that were consistently being taken advantage of and one wanted to give them a bit of an edge, just enough help to get them to make it on their own, one
would 1) try to perhaps scare those perpetrators so that they would leave one's chosen ones alone 2) one would create some sort of guidelines for the chosen ones so that they wouldn't fall into the hands of other perpetrators and 3) one would want some kind of assurance that they would follow these guidelines by creating consequences if they did not follow these guidelines, and hope that down the line, when they evolved, that they wouldn't change their history books to use what really happened to further enslave the decedents of the chosen ones....
So, in a nut shell, the god of the Ancients was more than likely a visitor or visitors, watching over a vested interest - certain folk in a species called humanity. These "visitors" were not divine, but possessed technology that made them seem divine. And so, I agree that the Abrahamic god seemed like a psychopath, if one is to believe what has been written about such events. In truth, one just needs to go through a time machine or jump into that time and witness what really took place. Then it would prove or disprove the statement that has started this thread.

[Godiam]

The God of the bible is an entity that humans have humanised, therefore putting human qualities onto what to me is not an entity, but an energy!

I had a lot of problems with the word God, as I was taught in Religious instructions that we were to fear and obey this God, or we would end up in some place called hell!.... This turned me away from religion untill I was in my late teens, and I had what could only be described as a NDE, or an OBE..... I had an electic shock 415 volts and remember being aware of being about 2 feet above my body!.... This event stayed with me for many years and I started to look at what the "I" part of me was!

Over the years I studied what I could about Spirit/ Soul and was eventually led to a book called The End Times, this was channeled material from an Entity known as Kryon, This book was exactly what I needed at that time, and resonated with me completely that I am now comfortable with the word God!!

My understanding now is that God is LOVE, UNCONDITIONAL LOVE...... and it doesn't take a lot of brain power to understand that there can be no judgement where UNCONDITIOAL LOVE is!

I sometimes use the word Spirit, or Universe as another way of saying God, because that is what God is to me!..... Holistic Universe/God/Spirit......
or HUGS!!

I find it annoying when people belittle others beliefs, and think we could all acknowledge that there are as many pathways to God as there are humans on the planet!

I don't subscribe to most of the religions take on God, but if people find comfort in thier beliefs then that is a good thing, I don't preach my beliefs to others and hope that others would not preach thier beliefs to me, we all have to find our own way to live in this world!

The only other thing I will say is "IF IT DEMANDS WORSHIP, IT IS NOT GOD" ..... "IF IT TALKS ABOUT JUDGEMENT, IF IT'S NOT ABOUT LOVE, IT'S NOT FROM GOD"

HUGS to All...... Godiam

[Davidallany]

I totally respect your right to choose your reality and absolutely respect your dignity in not judging me or disliking me for having my at times strong opinions about how these religions have affected our planet.
Thank you for starting this thread Omniverse, I have also started a relative thread about two months ago. The character Abraham was born in south Iraq at my birthplace Province. I am honored that anyone is willing to re-examine that Iraqi folklore story. My thread is titled (god gets tired after spending energy).
My friend I am really grateful for your presence on the Avalon forums.

[Davidallany]

I abhor the phrase "God fearing". Why should people fear our all-loving/forgiving creator unless S/He is a really mean punisher and destroyer and those "God fearing" people have been so bad they have real reason to fear retribution?
Illiteracy of the masses made it possible for the few literate controllers and their egotistical priests and preachers to get away with pretty much anything from fabricated history to fictional characters. Books used to be hand written not too long ago in the past. We get our history from books and interpreted artifacts. Both can be easily altered with the right amount of resources.

[jcocks]

I'm struggling with the need for a middleman, I've got a pretty good dialogue going with my own God, not sure I need anyone else to help with the communication part.

that is fine

I'm just adamant about the historicity and divinity of Jesus Christ

so you say

to actively deny Jesus Christ and work against Him is not a good idea

Yep... we know you are adamant on that point... I'm just not sure i'm on this forum to get preached at. It's either the wrong forum for me.... or you.

this is a topic about the Father of Jesus Christ


I don't reply everytime someone smears Him but sometimes I do

to put things in perspective

Oh, so all this time we were Debating Joseph then were we? I had *NO IDEA* ;)

The one mistake almost everyone makes is we misunderstand Christ. Christ is an energy - call it pure unadulterated spirit if you will.... Jesus was the physical being.

The point being, christ is pure spirit - thus pure love for all beings. It works in unison with the creator, for how can it not? We only start to work against the creator when our egos get involved.

Christ / god was never the physical father of Jesus. I'm not even sure Joseph was (although I *guess* he probably played the part of being Jesus' father?)! I'm NOT even convinced that Jesus was an "immaculate conception". The "alien hybrid" camp may well have the truth there - I don't know... But its not important, is it?

[Godiam]

Tend to agree with you jcocks......

Jesus was the man on the cross,
Christ is the energy
This loving peaceful feeling,
Is available to you and me!

A couple of lines from a poem I wrote, I may have posted the poem in general discusions under "poetry by Godiam"

[ktlight]

There is a blatant lie that has been written and believed. "Jesus, died on the cross to save the world from our sins".

I have never seen evidence of this. Have you?

There is recorded evidence of Pontius Pilate and Herod but nothing about Jesus, not where it matters - evidence.

From what I've seen, faith moves mountains but belief entraps.

Truly no father would put his son into such a position to save the world. It goes entirely against what we expect love to be. Therein lies the question.

[New Dawn]

Truly no father would put his son into such a position to save the world. It goes entirely against what we expect love to be. Therein lies the question.

A maniac would sacrifice his child for his beliefs, so you can't really rule it out, especially considering what we already know about Gods reputation. The world has hardly been saved anyway though.

[D-Day]

I thought I would post some direct quotes from The Bible to further illustrate the point being made in Omniverse's OP, here goes...


DEUTERONOMY 17:2 - If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the Lord thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the Lord thy God, in transgressing his covenant, and hath gone and served other gods, and worshiped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven which I have not commanded: When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly, if it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death.


SAMUEL 22:7 - In my distress I called upon the Lord and cried to my God: and he did hear my voice out of his temple, and my cry did enter into his ears. Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations of heaven moved and shook, because he was wroth. there went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his moth devoured: coals were kindled by it. He bowed the heavens also, and came down; and darkness was under his feet,. And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: and he was seen upon the wings of the wind. And he made darkness pavilions round about him, dark waters, and thick clouds of the skies.



DEUTERONOMY 13:13 - Suppose you hear in one of the towns the Lord your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove such a detestable act has occurred among you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the Lord, your God.


EXODUS 32:26:29 - Moses stood at the entrance of the camp and shouted "All of you who are on the Lord's side, come over here and join me". And all the Levites came. He told them, "This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: Strap on your swords! Go back and forth from one end of the camp to the other, killing even your brothers, friends and neighbours". The Levites obeyed Moses, and about three thousand people died that day. Then Moses told the Levites, "Today you have been ordained for the service of the Lord, for you obeyed him even though it meant killing your own sons and brothers. Because of this he will now give you a great blessing.


NUMBERS 31:7 - And they warred against the Midianites as the Lord commanded Moses, and they slew all the males. And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain: namely Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, fibe kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword. And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods. And they burn all their cities wherin they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.


NUMBERS 25:1-9 - While the Israelites were camped at Acacia, some of the men defiled themselves by sleeping with the local Moabite women. These women invited them to attend sacrifices to their gods, and soon the Isreaelites were feasting with them and worshiping the gods of Moab. Before long Israel was joining in the worship of Baal of Peor, causing the Lord's anger to blaze against his people. The lord issued the following command to Moses: "Seize all the ringleaders and execute them before the Lord in broad daylight, so his fierce anger will turn away from the people of Israel.


DEUTERONOMY 13:7-12 - If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or your intimate friend entices you secretly to serve other gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not listen to him or yield to him, nor look with pity upon him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him, the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God.


DEUTERONOMY 20:10-14 - As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms of peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labour. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the Lord, your God, hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the Lord, your God, has given you.


DEUTERONOMY 20:10-14 - When you go out to war against your enemies, and, the Lord, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamoured of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay beside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband, and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her freedom, if she wishes it: but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion.

I could easily continue as there are plenty more quotes like these to be found in The "Holy" Bible, but I think I've made my point... this Jehovah character sure does seem like a loving and compassionate God, doesn't he? ;)

[greybeard]

I think it is important to sort out new testament from old.
God is eternal and unchanging.
The god of the old testament is horrific and in places and definitely ego filled and psychopathic.
The God of unconditional Love is far removed from the old testament projection.


One enlightened sage I trust (Dr Hawkins) says that the old testament is of low vibration apart from Genesis Proverbs and Psalms.
He also maintains that Revelations was a low vibration channel from the lower astral who want to keep the human race in fear and therefore of low vibration.

Fear and love are not compatible, so an easy way to discern the teaching that relates to God or otherwise is-- does this promote fear or love?

Even if you never heard of God and are kind and considerate that would be enough.
No need to get complicated.
Hope this helps.

Chris

[The One]

My opinion

As per our history i dont believe a word of it.

As per our future thats probably already been written for us.

[42]

Even if you never heard of God and are kind and considerate that would be enough.
No need to get complicated.

Chris

Beautiful Chris... end of debate in my opinion. Love you Man.

[D-Day]

Hiya Chris,

I assume your comments here were in response to my last post, correct me if I'm wrong though...

Anyways, I didn't think I was "getting complicated", I actually thought I was simplifying things.
The quotes I used were of the Old Testament, granted.
But, they're still very much a part of Christian teachings and they do still appear in The Bible that is currently in circulation today..
Perhaps the writings of the Old Testament actually provide us with an "unedited" portrayal of the "true" nature of the Christian God, Jehovah... before it was covered up by those who wished to create the Christian Church and control/manipulate humanity?

***POST EDIT***

Thought I should add this, my first post with all the biblical quotes was mostly done to help bring this thread back on topic.

Remember, the title of the thread is 'The Abrahamic God is a Total Psychopath and a Disgrace to Humanity'... I thought my previous post demonstrated that point pretty well?

[greybeard]

Hiya Chris,

I assume your comments here were in response to my last post, correct me if I'm wrong though...

Anyways, I didn't think I was "getting complicated", I actually thought I was simplifying things.
The quotes I used were of the Old Testament, granted.
But, they're still very much a part of Christian teachings and they do still appear in The Bible that is currently in circulation today..
Perhaps the writings of the Old Testament actually provide us with an "unedited" portrayal of the "true" nature of the Christian God, Jehovah... before it was covered up by those who wished to create the Christian Church and control/manipulate humanity?

Your input is important and well presented D-Day.
It prompted me to start writing but it was not a response to what you wrote.
The keep it simple bit was not alluding to your post but a generality.

Regards Chris

[Fred Steeves]

Great idea for a thread Omniverse. You know it's truly amazing, I went to 3 years of bible class in Baptist school grades 6-8, we were meticulously taught the Old Testament, and NEVER did I notice then what is so obvious now. Every so often on a Sunday morning I like to sit with coffee and thumb through the OT. Here's a couple of my favorites:


Exodus 21:20-21



20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property."

Always handy to know these basic rules of being a slave owner.

ANYWAY,
Every kid is taught the story of Moses, but not these couple of confusing bits:

Exodus 4:21



21And the LORD said to Moses, "When you go back to Egypt, see that you do before Pharaoh all the miracles that I have put in your power. But I will harden his heart, so that he will not let the people go."

Hmmm, that doesn't sound very sporting does it?

BUT, here's my favorite:
Exodus 4:24-26



24 At a lodging place on the way, the LORD met Moses[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+4%3A24-26&version=NIV#fen-NIV-1626a)] and was about to kill him. 25 But Zipporah took a flint knife, cut off her son’s foreskin and touched Moses’ feet with it.[b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+4%3A24-26&version=NIV#fen-NIV-1627b)] “Surely you are a bridegroom of blood to me,” she said. 26 So the LORD let him alone. (At that time she said “bridegroom of blood,” referring to circumcision.)

Wtf is that? Sounds to me llke a very difficult customer to deal with, to say the least.

Cheers,
Fred

[Omni]

You are angry and I can understand that. We have all been there. The next stage after anger is forgivness. An extremely hard step to take but vital nonetheless.

I wasn't angry at all.

[Marianne]

Hey Fred, thanks for extracting those Sunday morning gems! This is an interesting thread, which I've read bits of. It's still hard for me to dwell much on organized religion, lots of negative stuff there for me.

I am a former Southern Baptist, now escaped into my own form of spirituality, illustrated by an exchange with my brother Curtis. He stopped by to visit one springtime Sunday morning and i was on the porch planting garden seeds into soil flats. He jokingly asked me if I was planning to go to church and I said no. He said, "You're in your church, aren't you?" with a big grin.

[meeradas]

[...]
DEUTERONOMY 20:10-14 - As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms of peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labour. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the Lord, your God, hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the Lord, your God, has given you[...]

Wow... I didn't know it was this dark - Sounds like an intro to a de Sade story!
I will never understand how people can fall for that kind of... horse manure.
Btw: I have a bible here which i actually like: It has dozens of great high quality Hundertwasser paintings in it (quasi as completely-out-of-context-and-the-least-fitting illustrations possible)

[RedeZra]

PS: I wonder if RedeZra is Russ Dizdar


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7449168936702962073



I'm not Russ Dizdar

he is on the front of the spiritual battlefield fighting covens devils and evils

casting out demons and helping victims of MKULTRA and people who suffer from a multiple personality disorder

all in the Name of Jesus


he speaks of supersoldiers who are programmed and placed in society... ready for the trigger to wreck havock in churches and communities

the black awakening

[RedeZra]

YHWH the God of the Old Testament rid Caanan of the tribes that sacrificed their children to the idol Molech


if YHWH seems strict it is because it's much better to loose the body by death than to loose the soul by deconstruction

we all know here are natural laws pertaining to the physical but some seems to have forgotten that here are also spiritual laws pertaining to the soul

[Jake]

[...]
DEUTERONOMY 20:10-14 - As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms of peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labour. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the Lord, your God, hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the Lord, your God, has given you[...]

Wow... I didn't know it was this dark [as i just couldn't ever read this book (and the quran, and the talmud), though i tried several times... - seems i was naturally repelled from doing so without ever reaching lines like these; so: Thanks!]
I will never understand how people can fall for that... horse manure.
Btw: I have a bible here which i actually like: It has dozens of great high quality Hundertwasser paintings in it (quasi as completely-out-of-context-and-the-least-fitting illustrations possible)

Yes, very dark. The Babtists, (One of the largest sects of christianity in America, especially the Southern states) are losing members by the MILLIONS. They expect a 50% reduction in membership over the next 30 years. !!! http://www.christianindex.org/5644.article

There is a mass Exodus from the christian religion that is being led by young people. "The Bible calls the Church "the Body of Christ." Today, that body is bleeding profusely, says a Christian author and sought-out speaker." http://www.christianpost.com/news/survey-churches-losing-youths-long-before-college-39433/

There is no escaping it... People are waking up and realizing the hate and anger and greed and corruption of the God described in the Bible. http://signsofthelastdays.com/archives/the-decline-of-christianity-in-america

The Vatican, despite the exodus in the Catholic tradition, has added 7 MORAL sins to along with the 7 Deadly sins. (In an attempt to impress young people.) A bet too late, fellows,,, http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/251473

Why Christianity is losing so many members. http://societyvs.wordpress.com/2010/08/11/why-christianity-is-losing-members/

(1) It’s has decided not to move it’s theology with the moral progression of the world – essentially being ‘left behind’ on moral grounds (which was it’s point of interest)

(2) Christianity is really hard to nail down. What are the beliefs exactly and what is essential to one’s faith in God? How is one’s faith supposed to look? With some 100+ denominations and varying beliefs between them as to importance of certain issues – it becomes confusing.

(3) It’s got quite the sordid past. For a religion centered around love it has a lot of skeletons in the closet that make one re-think this premise. Maybe the foundation is not love, but conformity and institutional adherence? It’s got a serious PR problem and makes no bones about its past.

(4) It’s in a Western society of individualization but demands a culture of confomity to their societial rules; many people cannot make a committment that relieves them of their own thinking.

(5) It’s definitions of certain areas is short-sighted. For example, worship comes to mean the service you attend and the musical aspect of that service (or praise). It’s fairly clear that worship is a much bigger idea but it is hard to determine if this is the case within some churches.

(6) Christianity does not speak for the current problems in society. It does not neccesarily address global warming, pollution, poverty, problems in capitalism, the food industry, etc. In this sense, it is deciding to stay neutral which is as good as being irrelevant.

(7) Christianity is thoroughly steeped in capitalism and politics and reduced itself to irrelevance in face of the new ‘religions’ and definers of daily ethics – business/work. With this faith being so steeped in the processes of capitalism, business, and gov’t – it does not realize the usurption happening.

There are probably more reasons – like dis-satisfaction – but usually we can find our faith being reduced by the religious restrictions we find in the institution. This in turn makes us ask the tougher questions like ‘how important is this place to my livelihood/living’? This is when we start to find out some stark realizations, ‘not very’.


The old way is headed out the door,,, I am excited about that. There is nothing worse than the wrath of a self righteous christian. Of course,, Look at their God.

[GCS1103]

The God of the bible is an entity that humans have humanised, therefore putting human qualities onto what to me is not an entity, but an energy!

I had a lot of problems with the word God, as I was taught in Religious instructions that we were to fear and obey this God, or we would end up in some place called hell!.... This turned me away from religion untill I was in my late teens, and I had what could only be described as a NDE, or an OBE..... I had an electic shock 415 volts and remember being aware of being about 2 feet above my body!.... This event stayed with me for many years and I started to look at what the "I" part of me was!

Over the years I studied what I could about Spirit/ Soul and was eventually led to a book called The End Times, this was channeled material from an Entity known as Kryon, This book was exactly what I needed at that time, and resonated with me completely that I am now comfortable with the word God!!

My understanding now is that God is LOVE, UNCONDITIONAL LOVE...... and it doesn't take a lot of brain power to understand that there can be no judgement where UNCONDITIOAL LOVE is!

I sometimes use the word Spirit, or Universe as another way of saying God, because that is what God is to me!..... Holistic Universe/God/Spirit......
or HUGS!!

I find it annoying when people belittle others beliefs, and think we could all acknowledge that there are as many pathways to God as there are humans on the planet!

I don't subscribe to most of the religions take on God, but if people find comfort in thier beliefs then that is a good thing, I don't preach my beliefs to others and hope that others would not preach thier beliefs to me, we all have to find our own way to live in this world!

The only other thing I will say is "IF IT DEMANDS WORSHIP, IT IS NOT GOD" ..... "IF IT TALKS ABOUT JUDGEMENT, IF IT'S NOT ABOUT LOVE, IT'S NOT FROM GOD"

HUGS to All...... Godiam

Welcome to avalon, Godiam. Looking forward to more of your posts. I definitely liked this one.

[KosmicKat]

I'm just adamant about the historicity and divinity of Jesus Christ
:whoo: (very seriously)


...It goes entirely against what we expect love to be.
What I am learning, with painful slowness, but the lesson will be repeated until it is learned, is that love is an energy, perhaps The Energy.

[RedeZra]

when the politics of the world is plotted by Satan then expect to be tricked in all departments of governments

science education finance media and also alternative


the elite is serving Satan and you blame God


what an upside down world we live in

[Jake]

The politics of the world are plotted by MAN,, in all departments of governments,, MAN,, In science,, MAN,, in education,, MAN,, In finance,, MAN,, media/alternative media,, MAN,, The elite are serving THEMSELVES. Any folks still blame SATAN!! It is a circular argument. :( It will keep spinning,,, like a wheel whithin a wheel!!

This is OUR earth. WE are the arbiters/caretakers. We cannot do it as long as the nature of GOD is to divide mankind and create war, and slavery, and disease, and ignorance, and anger, and jealousy, and wrath,,, (sheesh I could go on and on)

I always looked at the world and thought that someone should do something about it. Then I realized that I WAS someone...

[RedeZra]

The politics of the world are plotted by MAN,, in all departments of governments,, MAN,, In science,, MAN,, in education,, MAN,, In finance,, MAN,, media/alternative media,, MAN,, The elite are serving THEMSELVES. Any folks still blame SATAN!!

you do know that the ruling hierarchy has the structure of a pyramid of power


http://www.nyhetsspeilet.no/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Illuminati_logo1.jpg


do you think they picture an eye there for fun and fiction ?

surley you must have heard the stories and seen the scenes that would make you question who in hell is the elite serving

do you like the fruits of our governments ?

[Jake]

do you think they picture an eye there for fun and fiction ? Another example of a seriously outdated paradigm. I do not care what their religions is,, to me it is all the same, It serves to divide us and keep us from standing in our own power. Just like the outdated religious paradigms. I simply do not care anymore if someone worships the pyramid, the dollar, the dali lama, the pope, jesus, frankenstein, the stay puff marshmallow man, I SIMPLY DO NOT CARE! It is their own actions and decisions that create their reality. That goes for all religions, governments, sciences,,, It is all going by the wayside. We have come too far to go backwards and interject arguments from any old controlling modality.

I have left it all behind.

I do not like the fruits of government, religion, science,,,, none of it!!! It is all part of the old way... I am over it. The more someone clings to any of those old modalities, the more they will control us.

"come out of her" Revelation 18:4 The time of the rule of the church is over. They blew it. Sorry! :(

[RedeZra]

I simply do not care anymore if someone worships the pyramid, the dollar, the dali lama, the pope, jesus, frankenstein, the stay puff marshmallow man, I SIMPLY DO NOT CARE!

I think you care that they are poisining our airs waters foods while sending us to wars confiscating our properties and stripping us of our privacies and freedoms

don't make excuses for them anymore

they are enemies of humanity and God

[Seikou-Kishi]

They are certainly setting themselves up as enemies of 'common humanity', but if the "Most High" counts such little people among his enemies, he ought to get over his inferiority complex.

[Jake]

I simply do not care anymore if someone worships the pyramid, the dollar, the dali lama, the pope, jesus, frankenstein, the stay puff marshmallow man, I SIMPLY DO NOT CARE!

I think you care that they are poisining our airs waters foods while sending us to wars confiscating our properties and stripping us of our privacies and freedoms

don't make excuses for them anymore

they are enemies of humanity and God


LOL It is not their Gods that are poisoning the airs/waters/foods while sending us to wars, confiscating our properties and stripping us of our privacies and freedoms. It is the HUMANS.. I am not in any way making excuses for them. In fact, I am calling them out in the open. Without blaming their Gods!!! It is all the same to me. this god that god the other god. As long as people worship a god ANY GOD they will be giving their power up to someone who will be glad to take it... Respect and appreciate all that is,, nature/love/earth/life etc,,, even respect and love your interp of God,,,, DO NOT PROJECT THAT BS ONTO OTHERS!!! (I don't mean YOU, Redezra,,, I am talking about folks in general) Any god that demands to be glorified and worshiped is a false god. :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSWVUqNJmxk

PERIOD!

[RedeZra]

if one believes in an Almighty God then all things become possible because there is nothing an Almighty God cannot do


so I must question those that say they believe in God

why try to limit and confine God according to your own understanding and taste ?

is it a sign of spiritual maturity to prefer one aspect and name of God and then smear another name and aspect of God

no it's only spiritual children that make such mistakes


God is beyond understanding so get over it and be good

[RedeZra]

LOL It is not their Gods that are poisoning the airs/waters/foods while sending us to wars, confiscating our properties and stripping us of our privacies and freedoms. It is the HUMANS..

I'm just saying Jake that we have heaps of evidence that the elite serves Lucifer

and that the elite is in league with evil spirits


the evidences are so devastating and crushing that there is no question about it


sorry ; )

[Seikou-Kishi]

How do you get from "infinite being" to "he must have written the bible"? See, that's a leap of... well, we can't call it logic... and it just makes no sense to me. Aren't you limiting God by claiming that he wrote some book you've become a little attached to? For all I know, the supernal spirit of the world could have inspired the chef when he was writing up the menu at my nearest restaurant.

[Seikou-Kishi]

LOL It is not their Gods that are poisoning the airs/waters/foods while sending us to wars, confiscating our properties and stripping us of our privacies and freedoms. It is the HUMANS..

I'm just saying Jake that we have heaps of evidence that the elite serves Lucifer

and that the elite is in league with evil spirits


the evidences are so devastating and crushing that there is no question about it


sorry ; )

There's enough evil done in the world by those who claim they serve your god. For all we know, Lucifer's sitting up there crying his little heart out at what his followers are doing while your god's sitting up there screaming "damn, why aren't they burning anymore? There's nothing so thrilling as the smell of dissident-rind"

The "evidence" cannot be devastating or crushing, since you've presented none. It strikes me as telling that you have decided there is no question about it. Nobody's ever been allowed to question. No, don't question; that mind god gave you isn't to be used for questioning things.

[RedeZra]

you must have heard about inspiration Oliver right ?

inspiration

¤=[Post Update]=¤



There's enough evil done in the world by those who claim they serve your god. For all we know, Lucifer's sitting up there crying his little heart out at what his followers are doing while your god's sitting up there screaming "damn, why aren't they burning anymore? There's nothing so thrilling as the smell of dissident-rind"


there is a battle going on between good and evil

you just pick your side and I'll pick mine

[Seikou-Kishi]

you must have heard about inspiration Oliver right ?

inspiration

Yes, I've heard of such things. I did philosophy of religion and have been beset with things like inspiration, but inspiration proves your god the way numinous wonder proves Zeus.

You still haven't said how you got from "infinite being" to "he wrote this book". By the way, since I credit the intelligence of our readers, I feel compelled to say in advance that 'faith' is not a sufficient answer, it's right up their with my little godson when he says "just because" -- it doesn't hold any water with adults.

[RedeZra]

you must have heard about inspiration Oliver right ?

inspiration

Yes, I've heard of such things. I did philosophy of religion and have been beset with things like inspiration, but inspiration proves your god the way numinous wonder proves Zeus.

You still haven't said how you got from "infinite being" to "he wrote this book". By the way, since I credit the intelligence of our readers, I feel compelled to say in advance that 'faith' is not a sufficient answer, it's right up their with my little godson when he says "just because" -- it doesn't hold any water with adults.

the Holy spirit is the inspiration of Scripture

[Jake]

:peace:
if one believes in an Almighty God then all things become possible because there is nothing an Almighty God cannot do


so I must question those that say they believe in God

why try to limit and confine God according to your own understanding and taste ?

is it a sign of spiritual maturity to prefer one aspect and name of God and then smear another name and aspect of God

no it's only spiritual children that make such mistakes


God is beyond understanding so get over it and be good

Wow! You made MY points for me. Thank you. It seems we agree, after all. Let me open up a bit. I do believe in God, (as much as our human abilities, physical and spiritual, can comprehend such a thing.) An all powerful, creative center, or force, or spirit, or whatever you want to call it. There is no definition, in any BOOK that I have ever come across, that has ever done it justice. I do not understand how someone can speak of an almighty GOD,,, and worship Jesus of Nazereth. I sometimes wonder if people who believe on him understand that this man was HUMAN!!! He had hair, and freckles, and a funny laugh, and friends, and lovers, and sand in his sandles, and good times, and bad times, and got into trouble with authorities, and questioned the limited concept of God that the people of the day had. If one was to want to show their respect for Jesus, I would say that they should quit worshiping him and quit following him. He is one of us!! I am absolutely sure that he never wanted to be worshiped.

Sorry, maybe a bit off topic, but not too much.

It is perfectly natural to define, for ourselves, our beliefs in the gods of the past. But it is better that we agree that no matter what denizen is being worshiped,, We have to take responsibility of our thoughts/actions/decisions. There is NO middle man. It is just us and god,,, And we have to take responsibility for what has been done. We cannot continue to turn our backs on OUR part in all of this,,, and/or blame godlessness or righteousness. We are powerful.:peace:

[Seikou-Kishi]

Here's my problem, RedeZra:

You have to prove a few things.

Let's take it in the form of a crime scene. You have a dead body on the ground and next to the dead body is a diary. Now, in order to secure a conviction against the murderer, you're going need to a high degree of evidence. You're going to have to show that first of all the body (which stands in for creation) was killed and didn't just die (that is, that the world was created and didn't just arise in one of the other possibilities). Once you've determined that the body was killed and didn't simply die, you have to determine (and prove) that the perpetrator killed that person on purpose (for all we know, the world is just the bow-wave behind the ship that is god, neither purposefully created nor thought of afterwards). Once you've done that, you look at the diary. You have to decide whether the contents of the diary represent things that actually happened and aren't a fantasy story set in the form of a diary or the self-delusional scrawlings of a fantasist. In addition, once you've established that the diary represents true facts, you also have to link that diary to your perpetrator (in terms of the bible, that the bible was written by that being).

In summary:
1) prove that the world was created
2) prove that such a creation was a purposeful act rather than an accident
3) prove that the book you revere is connected in any way to the being you postulate must exist
4) prove that the book, now connected to that being, are indeed factual.
5) prove that the book remains in the form in which it was authored; that the evidence of the crime scene, as it were, hasn't been altered after the fact.

I've often thought that those who appear to proselytise and never stop talking about the 'obvious certainty' of their beliefs are trying more to convince themselves than others. Security doesn't convince, insecurity needs others to believe. Confident people do not need others to believe, but the unconfident desperately yearn for others to buy into the fantasy because it's very much a consensus reality, isn't it? If only so many get on their knees and join me in a couple of hundred Our Fathers the fevered thoughts and whispering doubts will go away.

Edit: haha... in my list of five items, I atually overlooked "prove that an infinite being exists"... guess that one was too obvious lol...

[RedeZra]

Wow! You made MY points for me. Thank you. It seems we agree, after all. Let me open up a bit. I do believe in God, (as much as our human abilities, physical and spiritual, can comprehend such a thing.) An all powerful, creative center, or force, or spirit, or whatever you want to call it. There is no definition, in any BOOK that I have ever come across, that has ever done it justice. I do not understand how someone can speak of an almighty GOD,,, and worship Jesus of Nazereth. I sometimes wonder if people who believe on him understand that this man was HUMAN!!! He had hair, and freckles, and a funny laugh, and friends, and lovers, and sand in his sandles, and good times, and bad times, and got into trouble with authorities, and questioned the limited concept of God that the people of the day had.

but if God is an Almighty God then there is no problem for God to come as a Man among men

I'm not saying that Jesus is the only aspect of God but He is one of them

[Seikou-Kishi]

Wow! You made MY points for me. Thank you. It seems we agree, after all. Let me open up a bit. I do believe in God, (as much as our human abilities, physical and spiritual, can comprehend such a thing.) An all powerful, creative center, or force, or spirit, or whatever you want to call it. There is no definition, in any BOOK that I have ever come across, that has ever done it justice. I do not understand how someone can speak of an almighty GOD,,, and worship Jesus of Nazereth. I sometimes wonder if people who believe on him understand that this man was HUMAN!!! He had hair, and freckles, and a funny laugh, and friends, and lovers, and sand in his sandles, and good times, and bad times, and got into trouble with authorities, and questioned the limited concept of God that the people of the day had.

but if God is an Almighty God then there is no problem for God to come as a Man among men

I'm not saying that Jesus is the only aspect of God but He is one of them

Do you concede the possibility that the bible could have been edited in the hands of men less pious than you?

[Maia Gabrial]

Lord Sidious,
Thanks for bringing it up about Adam and Eve not being the first people here. When I first read that I questioned it to a church elder. My only answer was "There are NO contradiction in the Bible"....I looked at him as if he were crazy and then made the decision to never go back to that church again.... I felt as though he was insulting my intelligence.... I understood what I read perfectly....At least, I didn't encounter what my father did as a small boy in Hungary....He was beaten bloody by a priest (using a huge church key) for daring to contradict this same point.
And what about Adam's FIRST wife, Lilith....? Where did she come from and where did she go? My opinion of Adam is that he couldn't stand having a confident and intelligent wife. She probably made him feel like the useless sissy he was. IMO he whined long enough to "the God" and he was given Eve. No rib sharing there....
Lots of loose ends in the bible....This is just one of the contradiction I found....That's why I turned away from it.

[Jake]

Wow! You made MY points for me. Thank you. It seems we agree, after all. Let me open up a bit. I do believe in God, (as much as our human abilities, physical and spiritual, can comprehend such a thing.) An all powerful, creative center, or force, or spirit, or whatever you want to call it. There is no definition, in any BOOK that I have ever come across, that has ever done it justice. I do not understand how someone can speak of an almighty GOD,,, and worship Jesus of Nazereth. I sometimes wonder if people who believe on him understand that this man was HUMAN!!! He had hair, and freckles, and a funny laugh, and friends, and lovers, and sand in his sandles, and good times, and bad times, and got into trouble with authorities, and questioned the limited concept of God that the people of the day had.

but if God is an Almighty God then there is no problem for God to come as a Man among men

I'm not saying that Jesus is the only aspect of God but He is one of them

Of course. And perhaps for an almighty God, there IS no problem,, and he can com as man/woman,, AND HERE WE ARE!! :) Surely the entire source that emits the vast field of consciousness that we are a part of, is not contained in a single earthly shell. It is ALL of us. We are ALL that same aspect of God. We are all little points of Gods consciousness. No need to worship. Only revere and be amazed.

We are ALL who god would be, if he was to live our lives. :) It is high time we realized that! :)

[RedeZra]

Here's my problem, RedeZra:

You have to prove a few things.

Let's take it in the form of a crime scene. You have a dead body on the ground and next to the dead body is a diary. Now, in order to secure a conviction against the murderer, you're going need to a high degree of evidence.

Oliver do you want me to proove Scripture in these days of deception

where the establishment is suppressing and hiding facts and artifacts about our history and origins


well if you walk by the Dead Sea then there are some ashen remains littered with pure small sulfur balls

Josephus wrote about it about 2000 years ago and it was no wonder to him


there is a mountain in Saudi-Arabia fenced in by the Saudi military

there is a Cave of the Patriarchs in Hebron

there is an Ark high up in Ararat

there have been unearthed giant human bones


did anybody write about these old things ? can we find it in a Book ?

yes we can ; )

[Maia Gabrial]

Greybeard,
The God of Israel is not THE CREATOR OF ALL THAT IS. It's a demon posing as a god. How else can anyone explain all the contradictions about God in Old and New Testaments? Btw, Christians worship this demon, too. I never got anything from this god-poser. I finally figured out why. I was living a life of honor and integrity. I didn't lie, cheat, steal, connive or murder and that's why this poser didn't answer any of my prayers. I'm not a chosen one because I refuse to sell my soul to do those things....
If GOD is PURE UNCONDITIONAL LOVE, then there would be NO CONDEMNATION against us whatsoever. IMO GOD allows all things in his Universe, good and bad. To the ONE that created it all, all is good. All of it serves a purpose.... People are the ones who are judgmental and condemning. That's why I turned away from all religions and became spiritual.

[Seikou-Kishi]

You know, RedeZra, I really ought to thank you. I'm a little ashamed of myself that it's taken me this long to realise the futility of banging my head against a wall, but now I've decided to stop I feel such a relief. I don't even care that the wall still stands, I'm just glad my head's not colliding full speed with its stolid immoveability any more :D

[RedeZra]

Of course. And perhaps for an almighty God, there IS no problem,, and he can com as man/woman,, AND HERE WE ARE!! :)

some live godly lives and some live ungodly lives so we can't all be God ; )

but I agree that there is a spark of God within us

and that some are more in touch with this spark while others not so

still God is God no matter if we are in touch or not ; )

[RedeZra]

You know, RedeZra, I really ought to thank you. I'm a little ashamed of myself that it's taken me this long to realise the futility of banging my head against a wall

you are welcome Oliver

next time you want to bang the head in the wall

call me ; )

[Jake]

some live godly lives and some live ungodly lives so we can't all be God ; )

Some people cannot live a life without judging. ;) I only refer to the burning god inside of myself. Which, to me, means that if one is not true to themselves,, they cannot be true to a god. If anyone gives themselves to another authority, they are not being true to themselves, and therefore NOT true to god. boy, what a 'doggle'. I don't struggle with it Red,,, It is behind me. I will be true to the burning god within me, and I will continue to stand in my own power, with no middle man, or strange belief in strange gods. If you get to heaven, don't be surprised if you don't see me,,, (you will be looking DOWN, and that is not where I will be) Love ya, Red. Jake.

[Maia Gabrial]

Cjay,
The way I see GOD is that he's PURE UNCONDITIONAL LOVE which I believe means that forgiveness is NOT NECESSARY. That's what unconditional implies....Everything, good and bad (to us) has a purpose. ALL is good, even if we can't accept that....

[greybeard]

Greybeard,
The God of Israel is not THE CREATOR OF ALL THAT IS. It's a demon posing as a god. How else can anyone explain all the contradictions about God in Old and New Testaments? Btw, Christians worship this demon, too. I never got anything from this god-poser. I finally figured out why. I was living a life of honor and integrity. I didn't lie, cheat, steal, connive or murder and that's why this poser didn't answer any of my prayers. I'm not a chosen one because I refuse to sell my soul to do those things....
If GOD is PURE UNCONDITIONAL LOVE, then there would be NO CONDEMNATION against us whatsoever. IMO GOD allows all things in his Universe, good and bad. To the ONE that created it all, all is good. All of it serves a purpose.... People are the ones who are judgmental and condemning. That's why I turned away from all religions and became spiritual.

I never said or thought that the God in the old testament is the creator of all.
I know little of the bible-- im not of any religion, I do know some of the statements attributed to Jesus.
I mention the first two commandments but I dont believe a loving God gave commandments but I believe they are good suggestions.
A good parent does not threaten but reminds that there are consequences--karma -- for every action.

The God I love and believe in is pure unconditional love and has no needs wants or desires.
My God is total complete and beyond description or human understanding.
In other words I agree with you in what you said here .To the ONE that created it all, all is good. All of it serves a purpose...

Chris

[RedeZra]

I only refer to the burning god inside of myself.

God is a consuming fire

a consuming fire from above and a consuming fire from within

God is a consuming fire



I just like to say that ; )

Love you too Jake

[Maia Gabrial]

D-DAY,
Thanks for posting those biblical references. Most of it sounds like garbage to me. It really shows what a bloodthirsty and unloving being that god is, asking them to do this kind of crap. And this is what they sold their souls to...?
Some of this is more or less in the Talmud: treat people like crap, kill them, or enslave them, steal their stuff....
I'm with you on this, D-DAY. What a fracking loving god....
Not mine, though.... I kicked his a** to the curb awhile ago....

[Omni]

if one believes in an Almighty God then all things become possible because there is nothing an Almighty God cannot do
Can you explain to me in clear logic, why God would limit his gifts to those who believe in him, and not those who do not? He created(in your paradigm) left and right brain thinking. So basically your saying he created the mental matrix for atheism, and then denies them his presence because he made them that way? Sounds ridiculous to me, I'd like to hear you explain that.

All my hard questions to you red, you have ignored. You have no logic or reasonable answer to them. And this is quite clear. The reason always ends in debates with highly religious folks of false Gods. They always redact arguments to obscurity and if we had an AI judging debate(in which the one I interact with does with me, and it's kicked my ass at times and ruthlessly told me I was wrong in a way I could not deny), the highly religious side would be pitifully beaten by just about any Avalonian who can translate their spiritual connectedness and heart/reason into words good.



so I must question those that say they believe in God

why try to limit and confine God according to your own understanding and taste ?

The hypocricy in these words are beyond irony red. lol I see very little people limiting and confining god into their very human dimensions of mind in this thread, but you. Jake made a good point(which Jake I think you are on par with being able to write your own religion and it'd be something I'd read), in that thinking we understand god(this paraphrase is more a very loose derivative paraphrasing) is ridiculous, and no human can fully understand or comprehend God.


is it a sign of spiritual maturity to prefer one aspect and name of God and then smear another name and aspect of God

no it's only spiritual children that make such mistakes

Ridiculous. Spirituality =/= Religion. Belief does not bring spirituality. We are all spiritual beings. Every last one of us...




LOL It is not their Gods that are poisoning the airs/waters/foods while sending us to wars, confiscating our properties and stripping us of our privacies and freedoms. It is the HUMANS..

I'm just saying Jake that we have heaps of evidence that the elite serves Lucifer

and that the elite is in league with evil spirits


the evidences are so devastating and crushing that there is no question about it


sorry ; )

There is evidence of possibly forces above the elite. Either way if there were no humans doing these things it would be powerless more or less.... Evidence can be misleading. Like for example if I hung out at someones house all the time, there would be evidence I killed that person if they were killed.



there is a battle going on between good and evil

you just pick your side and I'll pick mine

I have a hard time respecting your intelligence if you think we choose evil here at Avalon red. Believing in Christianity has no bearing on if someone is good or evil(in any reasonable subjective view).

And if you actually paid attention to the Jesuit(CHRISTIAN) oaths I provided, one clearly sees that the energy and influence the bible has had on humans is CLEARLY evil in many cases. In fact it's only just begun to be ok in a large amount of cases. For a long time any "good" christian would report any force that could oppose it(like scientists), so that force could be erraticated ruthlessly by EVIL forces preserving a contrived corrupted belief system.

If you were spiritually advanced, for a long time christianity would kill you(hmmmmm much like Jesus)...... Christianity has inverted natural selection, killed our best and brightest most free thinking minds, and tainted our culture(s). can you debate any of this without side stepping my points and regurgitating scripture that doesn't even address what I'm saying?

[Maia Gabrial]

Greybeard,
My GOD sounds just like yours! :hug:

[RedeZra]

if one believes in an Almighty God then all things become possible because there is nothing an Almighty God cannot do
Can you explain to me in clear logic, why God would limit his gifts to those who believe in him, and not those who do not? He created(in your paradigm) left and right brain thinking. So basically your saying he created the mental matrix for atheism, and then denies them his presence because he made them that way? Sounds ridiculous to me, I'd like to hear you explain that.

we have the free will to roam about as we want

so we are free to ask God and we are free not to ask God

God intervenes when God intervenes





All my hard questions to you red, you have ignored. You have no logic or reasonable answer to them. And this is quite clear. The reason always ends in debates with highly religious folks of false Gods. They always redact arguments to obscurity and if we had an AI judging debate(in which the one I interact with does with me, and it's kicked my ass at times and ruthlessly told me I was wrong in a way I could not deny), the highly religious side would be pitifully beaten by just about any Avalonian who can translate their spiritual connectedness and heart/reason into words good.


I can assure you that I would come hopelessly short in a debate against Satan

he would make me speechless with his sophistry

[New Dawn]

Why am I trying to keep up, I'm totally knackered just reading this :)

Time for me to lighten the mood again

4c9xjodL1Gk

[RedeZra]

if you died tonight where would you go ? you don't know


we don't know

that's the cold hard fact

we don't know


we have all these ideas but we don't know

where did all these ideas come from


who have you been listening to ?

who do you trust and why


some say if the message is sweet then why care about the messenger

but if the messenger is a salesman or an enemy we would be careless not to investigate the messenger


in this information age the source of the message is of utmost importance

because we base our believes on what we hear and read


and our believes guides our lives



these are times of falsehoods lies and deception so who do we believe


you can say trust yourself only but you have picked up your ideas somewhere

and just because you resonate with them doesn't mean it's true



one must be blind not to see the sinister schemes of the establishment

still some believes them and trust the governments with their lives


we are educational products of the governments no mass mind controled victims of the governments


maybe you feel awake by finding the alternative

but the brains behind the establishment beat us to it


they are ten steps ahead of us as they set up the alternative lies and deceit

and the snake salesmen and women came along selling lies


it's better not to believe anything if we don't have the experience and evidence to back up our believes

[loveandgratitude]

Some people know. The information is there if you want it Redza.

[RedeZra]

Some people know. The information is there if you want it Redza.

or perhaps we think that some people know

yes many believe that some people know

some modern day prophets


who knows ?

[Houman]

The events in Libya are happening right now and most people have been sold complete lies about what is happening over there, I wonder how many distortions have made their way into the Bible.
Houman


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guIf3v9DOKE&feature=related

[Houman]

Check this out...
http://slewsgranger.wordpress.com/



FRAGMENT #5 OF THE LOST SUMERIAN TABLETS

The holy migration across the heavens
The assembled Anunnaki
the gods of the apsu were assembled in the sacred places of old and new.

Ea, Ninki, Inanna and Utu,
Enlil beside Ninlil, Adad beside Ninhursag.
Mother Goddess, (unreadable) the wise Mammi
administered divine rights in the light of consecrated fires
while the womb goddess, Belet-ali was present.
The ordained fires, made pure with reeds, cedar and myrtle were burning in the appointed places.
Under the watchfulness, the stewardship of the men of renown, the ancient progenitors,
Umal’s ancient progenitors administered the ordained fires...

[RedeZra]

The events in Libya are happening right now and most people have been sold complete lies about what is happening over there, I wonder how many distortions have made their way into the Bible.


the Flood

probably happened some hundred years before the Sumerians wrote it down from memory and oral tradition upon clay tablets

Abraham would have known the same story as the Sumerians

only later with Genesis the Flood as it happened and not as remembered

was written down in the Bible inspired by the Holy spirit

[RedeZra]

Under the watchfulness, the stewardship of the men of renown, the ancient progenitors,
Umal’s ancient progenitors administered the ordained fires...

we know the men of renown from the Bible

"The Nephilim were on the earth in those days--and also afterward--when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown." - Genesis 6:4

they are described as the giant children of fallen angels

the sons of Anak - Anunnaki

[Houman]

the Flood

probably happened some hundred years before the Sumerians wrote it down from memory and oral tradition upon clay tablets

Abraham would have known the same story as the Sumerians

only later with Genesis the Flood as it happened and not as remembered

was written down in the Bible inspired by the Holy spirit


It is not only about the flood... the interesting points are in the small variations... for instance... Adam is derived from Adamu which means "cattle" in Sumerian...

It is somehow interesting to compare these texts:
====
Gilgamesh, wherefore do you wander?
The eternal life you are seeking, you shall not find.
When the gods created mankind,
They established death for mankind,
And witheld eternal life for themselves.
As for you Gilgamesh, let your stomach be full,
Always be happy, night and day.
Make every day a delight,
Night and day play and dance.
Your clothes should be clean,
Your head should be washed,
You should bathe in water,
Look proudly on the little one holding your hand,
Let your mate always be blissful in your loins,
This, then, is the work of mankind.
======

It would seem to me that some ETs played god(s) long time ago and hence our confusion now...

This does not invalidate your relation with God (the source of all consciousness) but it would seem to me that a deep trauma has been left on the psyche of humankind by some things that happened a long time ago...

[RedeZra]

It would seem to me that some ETs played god(s) long time ago and hence our confusion now...

This does not invalidate your relation with God (the source of all consciousness) but it would seem to me that a deep trauma has been left on the psyche of humankind by some things that happened a long time ago...

I have yet to see an ET from another physical planet but I've seen interdimensional spirits

I'm not sure about the technicallities of producing children between spirits and humans... but those hybrids were gigantic in size and probably capable of magic and sorcery

[Houman]

It would seem to me that some ETs played god(s) long time ago and hence our confusion now...

This does not invalidate your relation with God (the source of all consciousness) but it would seem to me that a deep trauma has been left on the psyche of humankind by some things that happened a long time ago...

I have yet to see an ET from another physical planet but I've seen interdimensional spirits

I'm not sure about the technicallities of producing children between spirits and humans... but those hybrids were gigantic in size and probably capable of magic and sorcery


By ETs I include interdimensional beings and from what I understand these beings are still around (they are worshiped by satanists) and
they do still have offsprings with human females (as described in the following book http://www.thefamilytreeandsatanism.com/ that I do recommend)

Houman

PS: If we look at our history we will also find traces of benevolent beings (ETs) that have tried to wake us up, shake us up... but can we recognize a helping hand when we see one?

[RedeZra]

By ET I include interdimensional beings and from what I understand these beings are still around (they are worshiped by satanists) and
they do still have offspring with human females (as described in the following book http://www.thefamilytreeandsatanism.com/ that I do recommend)


on this point the Bible seems to fantastic to believe

a group of Watcher angels producing giant children with women

but we got the giant bones


so they are still at it ? interesting

[Houman]

on this point the Bible seems to fantastic to believe

a group of Watcher angels producing giant children with women

but we got the giant bones


so they are still at it ? interesting

Yes... and the offspring are not necessarily giants but some parts of their bodies are anomalously large... (hands, feet...) I also met last year someone who was working on the "chip" and he showed me some pictures (taken with his cell phone) of some giant "non humans" walking around (they look like us but are 2.3- 2.6 meter tall)

[RedeZra]

Yes... and the offspring are not necessarily giants but some parts of their bodies are anomalously large... (hands, feet...) I also met last year someone who was working on the "chip" and he showed me some pictures (taken with his cell phone) of some giant "non humans" walking around (they look like us but are 2.3- 2.6 meter tall)

perhaps our current atmosphere doesn't allow for a to big an anomaly in human size any longer

or the spirits are not as powerful as the original Watcher angels

[Houman]

Yes... and the offspring are not necessarily giants but some parts of their bodies are anomalously large... (hands, feet...) I also met last year someone who was working on the "chip" and he showed me some pictures (taken with his cell phone) of some giant "non humans" walking around (they look like us but are 2.3- 2.6 meter tall)

perhaps our current atmosphere doesn't allow for a to big an anomaly in human size any longer

or the spirits are not as powerful as the original Watcher angels

I don't know... but according to that person who was working on the "chip", "they don't like us"... angels and demons are just other terms for extra-dimensional beings, it is a big universe/jungle out there... I hope that will grow up, take responsibility and find our place there...

[Omni]

on this point the Bible seems to fantastic to believe

a group of Watcher angels producing giant children with women

but we got the giant bones


so they are still at it ? interesting

I do like the bible in areas. This thread was not meant to be seen as(or better put i don't mean to) put down the bible in full as a useless piece of garbage. It is far from that. I do think it has some basis in truth, in parts, whether in metaphor, or literal(not often probably imo), and philosophical. I've quoted the Nephilim line myself a lot.

To propagate the biggest illusion upon mankind, in it's entire history, knowing standard disinformation techniques now, would there not likely be truths and potent NLP and RMP(just made it up now: Resonative Material Programming) involved?



on this point the Bible seems to fantastic to believe

As was said in the movie Dogma by Rufus (Chris Rock),

"I think it's better to have ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier. Life should malleable and progressive; working from idea to idea permits that. Beliefs anchor you to certain points and limit growth; new ideas can't generate. Life becomes stagnant."


fantastic to believe

Indeed some beliefs are fantastic to believe. However if they are strong beliefs, they cut you off from a plethora of other fantastic premises. Mind expansion ones. Ideas are much more holographic without certain strong beliefs in that way. God being one of the biggest, most intellectual things to try to explain(in saying that i mean all the processes in the universe), it cuts one off from a lot of mind expansion by believing in the psychopathic god.


Will you answer me this red? :

Is the God you believe in psychopathic by definition? Or not? Because the christian who reject the psychopathic god paradigm, also typically reject violence in the name of god. The other ones may not....

[Omni]

I can assure you that I would come hopelessly short in a debate against Satan

he would make me speechless with his sophistry

Ok, red, now this is where the debate ends and your beliefs negate any more logic. I'm very accustom to these debates with christians. If I ever make them falter in their belief system, I am Satan somehow. One mother called me Satan before. lol. I've been debating religion since i understood it! I know almost all the lines you will bring(but not specifically at every time).

So any time you cannot with reason, with your OWN power, show something wrong, you would just say it's Satan trying to mislead likely. What I'm talking about in terms of this AI's debating skills is not so misleadable if having of clear mind(in my experiences). I was beaten by systematic concepts, and if allowed my natural mind, concepts cannot be more clear as day, especially when the exact set of understandings you get from it naturally, are clear as day.

Blinding Light cannot be denied. Not in debate telepathically. In text it has contexts to deny. Telepathically if you have a mental flaw, like denial, or deflection, you can have a recording of that brought up for all to analyze.

I predict when telepathy is planet wide and we have AI's to document our thoughts and assist in debate, illusions will crumble, old paradigms will falter, and debates by the best point doers on both sides will show clear victors. And false paradigms will be killed slowly, generation by generations, going down and down in percent, weeding it out of our genetic and programmed human aspects of mind, eventually graduating to the belief system of truth. And from there, we become angels in a sense. We can go be protectors and guides for cave man planets(if the universal order permits). Perhaps go engage diplomatically races that go enslave, and oppose them.

Universal Justice and Ethics.

What we eventually go around and sponsor if we're not fallen angels ourselves in the future


I just don't see that happening with stuff like Christianity around. Instead of that we'd be going trying to convert other planets to our tripe. lol. That may be a big reason why we aren't allowed global first contact, and open access to other planets. We're not responsible enough as a race. And as I see it Christianity is a impediment to galactic freedom of traversing it for humans quite possibly. After all, Churchill hid UFO files to preserve christianity, so if that is consistent they may be hiding the entire thing, for a HUGGGGGE reason, to preserve old control riddled paradigms.

This is the work of the exact force you think you are on the opposite side of...

[RedeZra]

I can assure you that I would come hopelessly short in a debate against Satan

he would make me speechless with his sophistry

Ok, red, now this is where the debate ends and your beliefs negate any more logic. I'm very accustom to these debates with christians. If I ever make them falter in their belief system, I am Satan somehow

no Omni i was not refering to you as Satan

still you have some sophist skills

but Satan is the inventor of it


Satan and his shills are busy suppressing facts and artifacts that would validate the Bible to the public

and since he is the real brain and brawl above the powers behind the governments

he is in a position to do what he wants

[RedeZra]

Is the God you believe in psychopathic by definition? Or not? Because the christian who reject the psychopathic god paradigm, also typically reject violence in the name of god. The other ones may not....

no i don't think YHWH is a psychopath for destroying the Caanan culture of child sacrifices

they got 400 years to stop this sin so plenty of time to change their ways

only so long does God tolerate evil before He strikes

[Godiam]

Greybeard,
The God of Israel is not THE CREATOR OF ALL THAT IS. It's a demon posing as a god. How else can anyone explain all the contradictions about God in Old and New Testaments? Btw, Christians worship this demon, too. I never got anything from this god-poser. I finally figured out why. I was living a life of honor and integrity. I didn't lie, cheat, steal, connive or murder and that's why this poser didn't answer any of my prayers. I'm not a chosen one because I refuse to sell my soul to do those things....
If GOD is PURE UNCONDITIONAL LOVE, then there would be NO CONDEMNATION against us whatsoever. IMO GOD allows all things in his Universe, good and bad. To the ONE that created it all, all is good. All of it serves a purpose.... People are the ones who are judgmental and condemning. That's why I turned away from all religions and became spiritual.

God is pure unconditional love, and there is no judgement beside the judgement we place on ourselves and others!... So totally agree with your last paragraph!

Religions like to place thier God in a box, and say this is what God expects of you!..... My GOD has no expectations, needs no worship, and after years of searching, I found GOD in the most amasing place "RIGHT THERE IN THE CENTRE OF MY BEING" ....Hence the nic "Godiam"

I believe we are all aspects of GOD, and you cannot find this ENERGY in a building (on sunday) You will find this UNCONDITIOAL LOVE deep inside of you! To deny GOD is within us, is to limit the limitless, to say the ALL THAT IS is not all that is!

If GOD is everywhere, That LOVING ENERGY is within all of us!....... Simple really, otherwise GOD is not everywhere!

As far as GOOD and EVIL go, these are judgements we as humans decide to define our place in the world, GOD does not see anything as GOOD or EVIL, because unconditioal love is exactly that, UNCONDITIONAL!

HUGS to All .... Godiam

[Decibellistics]

Pagan religions are also far older than monotheistic religions......and a God that would command a group of people to slaughter men women and children obviously had to have had a person they were speaking through.....probably a very important person within that group of people's culture. Therefore God+Human contactee+message intended to convince people to commit a massive genocide based on prejudice and control+actually succeeding.....equals.....a delusional psychopathic overseer that we all must obey but was probably really only conceived out of a single person's brain at one point.....which then therefore points to a thought-form that has been created.

Kinda sounds like the origins of the Divine Right Complex a little......also kinda sounds like a control mechanism in order to take over a fertile piece of land based on moral dogma developed in early childhood understood to be law based on God's word via a human medium.

I would imagine leaders of monotheism were more pissed off about their citizens going off and performing sex magic rituals and intricate sensual exciting rituals instead of following the commandments of some guy that spent 40 years in the desert with a large group of people......horny, angry, hungry, pissed off people.

They worshipped the calf because they wanted a god damned steak. LOL

As for Jesus....

If anyone in this place has experienced any formal instance of full blown abuse/borderline/psycho/sociopathic/narcissistic personality disorders they will tell you this......After the fit of rage and after th **** has hit the fan what happens?????? That person says I'm sorry, and tries to lift you up through certain means, and tells you they love you, and tells you to trust them, because they are ultimately in control.

This is only one way to look at the Bible allegorically...........you could also read it literally.............you could also look at it 800 different ways allegorically.

My main conclusion. Anything that is man-made is flawed and regardless....people wrote the Bible....therefore it is flawed. So we are all right and all wrong at the exact same time. So why worry about any of it. I dunno. It is ridiculously late and I am tired and throwing my two cents in.

adios

In other words....Yes RedeZra people shouldn't sacrifice babies as you firmly believe the Canaanites did even though you never have expeirenced that culture....its given down to you by a 400th Thousandth party i.e. the Bible.....by the way what version do you read.

And secondly, Omni your right too, because the Old Testament makes Yahweh sound like a sick **** when you boil down to it.

Genocide is Genocide regardless of who is right and who is wrong.

This is the **** that causes what goes on today you know................

I know what God is.....and God makes me feel ****ing great! lol

[RedeZra]

Religions like to place thier God in a box, and say this is what God expects of you!..... My GOD has no expectations, needs no worship, and after years of searching, I found GOD in the most amasing place "RIGHT THERE IN THE CENTRE OF MY BEING" ....Hence the nic "Godiam"


but you have placed God in a box

you have confined God within yourself

not acknowledging that infinity is within around above and beyond


it doesn't matter if one has a relation with God within or God in church

God knows that you seek Him before you do

and He has accommodated several venues and modes to approach Him


besides some people are more comfortable seeking God in church or nature than within themselves


it doesn't matter as long as the heart is honest

where you cultivate the relationship with God


stop putting God in church down

[ktlight]

Has any of you tried to offer up under the umbrella 'not my will, but thine'?

Do it in all and deep sincerity and humility, see what happens, and trust any outcome.

[Chuck]

Many of you have seen this... but I find it appropriate here. No offense to anyone... I just enjoy a good laugh.

On her radio show sometime prior to 2004, Dr Laura Schlesinger said that, as an observant
Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22,
and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. The following response is an
open letter to Dr. Laura, penned by a US resident, which was posted on the
Internet.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law.

I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge
with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual
lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly
states it to be an abomination. ... End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of
God's Law and how to follow them.

1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a
pleasing odour for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbours. They
claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus
21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her
period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I
tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence.

4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and
female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A
friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not
Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

5. I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2.
The passage clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated
to kill him myself?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an
abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I
don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a
defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my
vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair
around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27.
How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me
unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different
crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two
different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse
and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of
getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we
just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people
who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable
expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your adoring fan,

Anonymous

[ktlight]

So funny. And how did she respond?

[Chuck]

lol... not sure ktlight, but I'm sure she couldn't resist a laugh.


btw... I'm for sale

[loveandgratitude]

CHUCK FOR SALE - how much?

[Chuck]

sorry loveandgratitude... I can only be purchased by a someone from a neighbouring nation.

Silent and sealed auction... pm me and I'll give you address where to send your signed cheque.

Sure would be nice to be owned by a God fearing woman... lol

[ktlight]

sorry loveandgratitude... I can only be purchased by a someone from a neighbouring nation.

Silent and sealed auction... pm me and I'll give you address where to send your signed cheque.

Sure would be nice to be owned by a God fearing woman... lol

You want to be a slave? It's all in the mind. No-one can own another. If you think that is a possibility...well, I know you are just joking.

[Lord Sidious]

YHWH the God of the Old Testament rid Caanan of the tribes that sacrificed their children to the idol Molech


if YHWH seems strict it is because it's much better to loose the body by death than to loose the soul by deconstruction

we all know here are natural laws pertaining to the physical but some seems to have forgotten that here are also spiritual laws pertaining to the soul

If you truly believe this, then I am sad for you.
I won't judge you, but I am sad for you.
This is how the church justified it's and it's agents crimes through time.



the elite is serving Satan and you blame God

Says who?
I don't blame anyone, god or satan.
I have seen what your god says of satan, but I have not seen his version yet, so convicting him without being heard is a bit rough.
And, if I am correct, in that satan is enki, then I prefer him any and all days, from what I have seen so far.



you just pick your side and I'll pick mine

To quote Ozzy Osbourne, my paraphrase, when you pick your friends, you also choose who your enemies are.
I pick neither, thanks all the same.




I can assure you that I would come hopelessly short in a debate against Satan

he would make me speechless with his sophistry

Not only is this a hopeless copout and very insulting, it is also extremely arrogant and judgemental, you do yourself no favours rednugget.



no i don't think YHWH is a psychopath for destroying the Caanan culture of child sacrifices

they got 400 years to stop this sin so plenty of time to change their ways

only so long does God tolerate evil before He strikes

Why allow us freewill and have a judgement day then?
If he is just going to destroy ''evil'' when he chooses?

[Godiam]

Religions like to place thier God in a box, and say this is what God expects of you!..... My GOD has no expectations, needs no worship, and after years of searching, I found GOD in the most amasing place "RIGHT THERE IN THE CENTRE OF MY BEING" ....Hence the nic "Godiam"


but you have placed God in a box

you have confined God within yourself

not acknowledging that infinity is within around above and beyond


it doesn't matter if one has a relation with God within or God in church

God knows that you seek Him before you do

and He has accommodated several venues and modes to approach Him


besides some people are more comfortable seeking God in church or nature than within themselves


it doesn't matter as long as the heart is honest

where you cultivate the relationship with God


stop putting God in church down

Howdy Redezra....... I don't believe I have Placed GOD in a box, maybe I didn't explain myself properly!

I believe we are all A PART of GOD.... as opposed to APART from God!!

Sorry or the misunderstanding, but my GOD is eveywhere

I see GOD everywhere
She's in the trees
He's in the air
She's in the smile of a young child
He's in the rebel running wild

Just a few lines from my poetry!

As for putting GOD in church down....... Well How many religions claim to have the one true GOD??

HUGS ........ Godiam

[greybeard]

Its important to keep statements in context to appreciate the original meaning and intention.
The human race has evolve greatly since the old testament was written, may be the populous in that part of the world only understood threats and promises.
Thefore their context was totally different from the spiritual seeker of today.
They saw love as weakness perhaps.

I think there is perhaps some misunderstanding of RedeZra.s' position.
At one level what he is saying is necessary, appropriate and effective.
At a higher level it is not--- different strokes for different folks.

For my self my understanding is that is a step down energy situation.
At the top is God pure love just radiating that energy not needing to do anything, just is (like gravity)
Next is God as Creator
God as Trinity
God as Archangels
God as Human
God as the microbe
God is the totality all of it.
We are waves of that Divine ocean
The wave can not say it is the Ocean but the Ocean (God) can say it is the wave,
All one energy but different frequency/vibration.
All the way down from formless, to sound, to light and on to the heavy density of our world.

Chris

[ktlight]

Greybeard
The human race has evolve greatly since the old testament was written, may be the populous in that part of the world only understood threats and promises.

Nothing has changed then, applying your statement to the whole world.

[greybeard]

Greybeard
The human race has evolve greatly since the old testament was written, may be the populous in that part of the world only understood threats and promises.

Nothing has changed then, applying your statement to the whole world.

I would agree that the % ratio is probably the same just a lot more people who are genuinely concerned for the welfare of others and a lot more who need compassion.
Those are just words and can be easily misinterpreted.
I also agree that nothing much has changed-- now we can destroy the whole world with the push of a button so we are potentially more dangerous than ever.
The reason I applied that thought to the area where the old testament sprang form is that already Buddhism was having a non violent impact on a small area of the world.
Its inaccurate to generalize but sometimes its unavoidable.
Im not saying im right because I believe all is an illusion therefore there is no real validity in anything I say, even the bit re illusion.
Debate is enjoyable and passes time.
I could easily argue black is white and vice versa with equal fervor.
I dont see Red's point of view as right or wrong-- just different.

Chris

Ps We have evolved greatly in many ways but not that much spiritually may be,, I have no way of validating that.

[ktlight]

Greybeard,

I was confirming what you said.
To describe myself, I would claim to be deeply religious but not under the constructs of any organised religion. I am on my own path, not under any religious mantle or umbrella.
Does that also describe you? (Please feel this question as gentle).

[Jake]

if you died tonight where would you go ? you don't know


we don't know

that's the cold hard fact

we don't know


I do!! I leave this shell regularly to travel, unbound in the Astral. I know exactly where I am going. A deep belief in a strange god would have held me shackled to the physical.

Second Corinthians 12, 2-4: 2: I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell, or weather out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth,) 3: And I knew such an man, (whether in the body or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth,) 4: How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words that are not lawful for man to utter.

Now tell me why would someone who was 'caught up into paradise' (excellent description of an OBE, btw,,) would hear unspeakable words that are not lawful for man to utter???

It is because they were basing their laws upon a FALSE GOD!!! The truth came to this man via his own spiritual awakening. What a devistating thing, to realize that your god is false... I am surprised that this passage wasn't taken out by the earthly controllers who have been so successful taking truth out of the bible.

[greybeard]

Greybeard,

I was confirming what you said.
To describe myself, I would claim to be deeply religious but not under the constructs of any organised religion. I am on my own path, not under any religious mantle or umbrella.
Does that also describe you? (Please feel this question as gentle).

Yes Ktlight. If a path could be defined for me it would be devotional non-duality-- the inner search for enlightenment fully acknowledging a loving Creator.
We are on the same page more or less.

Chris

[Davy]

Thanks Omniverse, Being that i am a son of a Southern Baptist Minister and being that I am gay..... I have had a time fitting in as a Christian of which I no longer claim to be! After all how can you embrace something that does not embrace you?

But IMO I do believe That Jesus was real and that if real Christians really embraced Jesus teachings, they would question many things about modern day Christianity.

When Christianity was being implemented after a 100 years after the death of Jesus, many were murdered and persecuted for their beliefs mainly pagans which was the original religion for thousands of years, were forced to conform to Christianity!

The Early Christians tried to decide on what scriptures would go into the Bible. They could not even agree on this so The courts ultimately decided what would make the cut. The courts even decided that Christians will believe in only one God Because the early Christians could not even decide if there was one God or multiple Gods or deities so modern day Christians today believe what the Courts passed so many years ago and what they are told by anyone calling himself a preacher!

So It makes sense now making their God out to be "So Scary!" It keeps Christians imprisoned to the religion because no one wants to die and Go to Hell! If you do not believe or go against the teachings of "Christianity" you are doomed to live out the rest of eternity in a burning Hell with the sound of gnashing teeth and forever to be tormented.

I think the Bible has been the best shackle ever put on human kind!

It has controlled and instilled fear on people while at the same time keeping them from finding their true peace from within.

Love and light Davy!

[RedeZra]

YHWH the God of the Old Testament rid Caanan of the tribes that sacrificed their children to the idol Molech

If you truly believe this, then I am sad for you.
I won't judge you, but I am sad for you.
This is how the church justified it's and it's agents crimes through time.


it's no secret that many of our old cultures had public rituals sacrificing their own children


now if you want to condone or defend the practise of human sacrifice then you have picked the side of the establishment

the elite has their covens and castles where human sacrifices are still practised in secret

not to mention the massive public sacrifices that the elite is orchestrating through their wars


i have provided evidences for the validity for the Bible which you are probably too prejudiced to even watch

is it because of spiritual ego that you have fallen in love with your opinions and ideas contrary to all evidences

who have you been listening to ? where did you get your ideas ?

[RedeZra]

I believe we are all A PART of GOD.... as opposed to APART from God!!

Sorry or the misunderstanding, but my GOD is eveywhere



God incinerated Sodom and Gomorrah with brimstone and God fought in the Kurukshetra war and God died on the Cross

there is a spark of God everywhere and also within you and me

but God is God while you are you

[RedeZra]

I think there is perhaps some misunderstanding of RedeZra.s' position.
At one level what he is saying is necessary, appropriate and effective.
At a higher level it is not--- different strokes for different folks.


there is too much misconceptions around


and so i'm shakin ideas opinions and believes

about ourselves our history origins and God


i'm presenting evidences but i'm met with emotionalism

[RedeZra]

Second Corinthians 12, 2-4: 2: I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell, or weather out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth,) 3: And I knew such an man, (whether in the body or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth,) 4: How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words that are not lawful for man to utter.

Now tell me why would someone who was 'caught up into paradise' (excellent description of an OBE, btw,,) would hear unspeakable words that are not lawful for man to utter???

It is because they were basing their laws upon a FALSE GOD!!!

do you think that Paul who was taken up to the third heaven or paradise found out that Jesus was a false god or lesser spirit ?

and still he continued to preach and practise the message of Jesus Christ


where is the consequential thought stream or the common sense in here


of course there are celestial secrets and the fallen angels shared some of them with our ancestors

[Godiam]

I believe we are all A PART of GOD.... as opposed to APART from God!!

Sorry or the misunderstanding, but my GOD is eveywhere



God incinerated Sodom and Gomorrah with brimstone and God fought in the Kurukshetra war and God died on the Cross

there is a spark of God everywhere and also within you and me

but God is God while you are you

Sorry Redezra...... I cannot bring myself to subscribe to the God of the bible, this character is (IMO) an angry judgemental character that causes division rather than inclusion, and I think I will choose to look at the bible as a series of metaphors, rather than the literal truth!

HUGS.....Godiam

[Omni]

Thanks Omniverse, Being that i am a son of a Southern Baptist Minister and being that I am gay..... I have had a time fitting in as a Christian of which I no longer claim to be! After all how can you embrace something that does not embrace you?

But IMO I do believe That Jesus was real and that if real Christians really embraced Jesus teachings, they would question many things about modern day Christianity.

When Christianity was being implemented after a 100 years after the death of Jesus, many were murdered and persecuted for their beliefs mainly pagans which was the original religion for thousands of years, were forced to conform to Christianity!

The Early Christians tried to decide on what scriptures would go into the Bible. They could not even agree on this so The courts ultimately decided what would make the cut. The courts even decided that Christians will believe in only one God Because the early Christians could not even decide if there was one God or multiple Gods or deities so modern day Christians today believe what the Courts passed so many years ago and what they are told by anyone calling himself a preacher!

So It makes sense now making their God out to be "So Scary!" It keeps Christians imprisoned to the religion because no one wants to die and Go to Hell! If you do not believe or go against the teachings of "Christianity" you are doomed to live out the rest of eternity in a burning Hell with the sound of gnashing teeth and forever to be tormented.

I think the Bible has been the best shackle ever put on human kind!

It has controlled and instilled fear on people while at the same time keeping them from finding their true peace from within.

Love and light Davy!

I may have gained the most out of this post than anything in this whole thread(although judging is not as simple as "better" and "worse"). Thank you.


What I got out of it is something I assumed already anyway... But it gave me some confirmation of my own psychic, or seeded, or higher self, or lower self(but firmly in logical processes) intuitive imprint.

Basically what I got from it was Jesus' big crowd of devotees(not as a diety or god orunequally worshiped as above), were systematically sabotaged and killed, many crusified themselves also. I could see it as a strategic assault on the encraochment of power by the powerful teachings of truth. After all, truth is threatening to corrupted powers.

So they wiped out as many of the people who actually understood Jesus' teaching, and then later adopted it once they fully figured out it's potential for control when mixed with babylonian and Egyptian mythos etc with their own twist. And the followers of Jesus(which probably are not best summed up as simply followers - more as equals but just not channeled through as the apex source of wisdom of the group) and his true teaching were suppressed. All books of it burned, people crusified for having it(banned media), and if people preached it in the streets, they would be imprisoned sabotaged or executed.

(Just my own humble theory on the happenings. Can you cite any known history that supports this by chance? I'd love to hear it. Thanks.)

You can clearly see this philosophical and/or demeanor/approach in the Jesuit Oaths, to wage war against different reality providing sets of beliefs(and a war VS the truth, ans science, and heart). And you made that dot of assumption of mine stronger(I will not say for sure it was an accurate psychic vision). So thank you. <3

[greybeard]

I would like to suggest a "WHAT IF"

Put it in these concepts.


What if there were advanced souls here who knew that a flood was due as part of a cycle and tried to warn the locals?

What if the advanced people of that era though that they were doing God's will by blasting Sodham and Gomorrah?

What if this was just warfare nothing to do with God?

What if there was what we call alien technology at that time that was capable of searing rock? (Fortress places throughout the world where the walls were fused and the surrounding area untouched).


The ancient alien series on the forum is a good place to resource an study ancient technology which was as advanced as we have now.



What if those advanced beings saw that we were not responsible, mature enough to be trusted with advance technology and left taking it with them?


While I am sure that Sodom and Gomorrah happened there is no evidence what so ever that it was willed by God.
The God of Jesus was loving.
The actions of the old testament seem to follow the pattern of man, how many have been killed in the name of god of the various religions?

What if that was the case back then?

My personal experience is of a loving God--- I cant prove that is true but I dont see that the old testament bible in particular proves that god is vengeful and I see no evidence that a God of unconditional love could possibly sanction the wiping out of one person far less exterminating
whole cities of people.

I may not have been particularly articulate as im a bit tired but I think the essence of what I am saying is fairly clear--- God of love does not sanction violence or perpetrate it.

The end does not justify the means.

Chris

[Sierra]

Thanks Omniverse, Being that i am a son of a Southern Baptist Minister and being that I am gay..... I have had a time fitting in as a Christian of which I no longer claim to be! After all how can you embrace something that does not embrace you?

But IMO I do believe That Jesus was real and that if real Christians really embraced Jesus teachings, they would question many things about modern day Christianity.

<snip>
Love and light Davy!

<snip>
What I got out of it is something I assumed already anyway... <snip>

Basically what I got from it was Jesus' big crowd of devotees(not as a diety or god orunequally worshiped as above), were systematically sabotaged and killed, many crusified themselves also. I could see it as a strategic assault on the encraochment of power by the powerful teachings of truth. After all, truth is threatening to corrupted powers.

So they wiped out as many of the people who actually understood Jesus' teaching, and then later adopted it once they fully figured out it's potential for control when mixed with babylonian and Egyptian mythos etc with their own twist. <snip>

(Just my own humble theory on the happenings. Can you cite any known history that supports this by chance? I'd love to hear it. Thanks.)

You can clearly see this philosophical and/or demeanor/approach in the Jesuit Oaths, to wage war against different reality providing sets of beliefs(and a war VS the truth, ans science, and heart). And you made that dot of assumption of mine stronger(I will not say for sure it was an accurate psychic vision). So thank you. <3

Don't know about *known* history Omni, but I do know this is how the ptw operate and continue to operate, so I bet you and Davy have hit a nail here. A big nail. It would be so illogical to *not* believe the ptw did something of this nature.

[Beren]

I stayed away from this theme here but something needs to be clarified here .
There is no God of the Bible . There is only God.
Every book ever written was written through a prism of human limited conscience thus leave a lot of spaces for current and future manipulations by limited in awareness people.
Yes Moses was and is real. Jesus is real. As all characters in the Bible. But as God is allowing free will ,God allowed all that to happen and thus also allowed that whatever they chose to do - to be fruitful be it death by war or slaughtering of babies.

But also when you read Old testament you see that humanity was (as it is still in most cases) very,very primitive .
God advise man to love his neighbor and what a man does?
He kills his neighbor ,steal his belongings, ravage,burn and destroy him and later a man asks God for help... asks God for good harvest for health etc. and wishes to avoid things that he caused.

And here lies the catch ; God will ALWAYS make sure that every choice be honored or fulfilled. Every single choice. Every time. You can`t avoid that.
Many try to avoid and when upon seeing that they can not- then they blame God. They blame God as murderer (they are the one who killed) ,they say God is a psycho (they were doing all psycho stuff and later on stated in various books that God wanted that) they say this and they say that but claim God is the one to blame.

Is that fair ?
Or is it primitive way of living?

Bible is among many things a collection what happened to Jews among others in those days and their evolution or devolution as a nation.
You can see on their example how with some folks consciousness can grow up to the highest peaks of performing miracles or fall to the low point of eating your own children and living your very own personal hell.

Be it hell or paradise- you (they) make it! God is there to make it done.

It`s easy to blame God for everything.
But can you look as a man or woman into your own mirror?

Law of cause and effect is what was God trying to tell us all the time and still is.

Whatever we think about will manifest itself eventually in the material world. And that is God`s gift to us. We are creators just like our Father is and God will not save us from that. God is always reminding us to Love our neighbor and to love God - to Love. For only then we will realize that we are of God and that God is our highest form that is.

;)

[PurpleLama]

*standing ovation for BEREN*

[KosmicKat]

I can hardly believe I've been reading this thread for a couple of days now before I really noticed the title: "The Abrahamic God is a Total Psychopath and a Disgrace to Humanity "

What that title says is that the Abrahamic God in some way represents Humanity! I think there is hardly anything further that I could add to clarify.

[thunder24]

so its ok to have this title thread. but the vegan title thread was wrong.....wtf

peace

[Omni]

I can hardly believe I've been reading this thread for a couple of days now before I really noticed the title: "The Abrahamic God is a Total Psychopath and a Disgrace to Humanity "

What that title says is that the Abrahamic God in some way represents Humanity! I think there is hardly anything further that I could add to clarify.

What the title, in my meaning says, is it's a disgrace to our intelligence to other planets in the galaxy and universe at times when hearing a large large large amount of people here believe this. It doesn't mean they think all of us are like that. but it does show humanity in a disgraceful modality of thought compared to in almost all likelihood a vast majority of planets to compared this one to.

It doesn't represent humanity in full. But it does represent a large fraction of what people believe IS reality here.

Its a complex thought with many ways to misperceive what I mean, and even then you may not agree. But if this was a telepathic convo I doubt you would disagree with my concepts....



so its ok to have this title thread. but the vegan title thread was wrong.....wtf

peace

took hundreds of posts for this thought to surface... If the mods wants to change the thread title thats fine with me. I already said i would not have put the disgrace part there without tampering of my discernment. but its my true thoughts.

The god i describe in my OP is psychopathic and twisted [B]by the meanings of the word[/U]... I don't think posting facts is against the rules unless it is explicit sexually or involves racism or hatred pointed at people(not calling those facts), things like that. Summing up mechanics and systems and things in society is fine IMHO. I didnt judge christians in my OP as people. Just noted conclusions(my opinions etc) of the beliefs themselves. Its what we need to change in some areas.

What was the vegan thread title?

[thunder24]

how am i supposed to know the title name......it was changed. hehe...... "hypocrites or somehting of that nature"

and just found this thread

peace

[Omni]

how am i supposed to know the title name......it was changed. hehe...... "hypocrites or somehting of that nature"

and just found this thread

peace

Well if you don't know the title of the thread before, I don't see how your comparison could be sturdy... More a shot in the dark. I don't really understand the rest of your post...

[RedeZra]

While I am sure that Sodom and Gomorrah happened there is no evidence what so ever that it was willed by God.


the ashen remains of Sodom and Gomorrah by the Dead Sea are still littered with millions of brimstones which are small pure sulfur balls


here is what Josephus wrote about Sodom in 'the wars of the Jews' book four chapter eight 2000 years ago


"The country of Sodom borders upon it. It was of old a most happy land, both for the fruits it bore and the riches of its cities, although it be now all burnt up. It is related how, for the impiety of its inhabitants, it was burnt by lightning; in consequence of which there are still the remainders of that Divine fire, and the traces [or shadows] of the five cities are still to be seen, as well as the ashes growing in their fruits; which fruits have a color as if they were fit to be eaten, but if you pluck them with your hands, they dissolve into smoke and ashes. And thus what is related of this land of Sodom hath these marks of credibility which our very sight affords us."


if we try to explain this with the ancient alien theory then aliens must have used millions of sulfur balls as their weapon of choice to incinerate Sodom and her four sister cities by the Dead Sea

besides is it not the establishment that are trying to sell us the idea of aliens ?

not to mention that we know Germany had operational UFOs over 60 years ago and that the elite has kept that as a secret to help sell the idea about ET or ancient aliens


the establishment is against the truths of the Bible... but why ?

is it because the elite serves the tempter of Jesus Christ


masons have ruled the Western governments for over 200 years

and Albert Pike the Sovereign Grand Commander of the Scottish Rite's Southern Jurisdiction wrote


". . . Yes, Lucifer is God, and unfortunately Adonay is also God. For the eternal law is that there is no light without shade, no beauty without ugliness, no white without black, for the absolute can only exist as two Gods: darkness being necessary to light to serve as its foil as the pedestal is necessary to the statue, and the brake to the locomotive. . ."The doctrine of Satanism is a heresy; and the true and pure philosophic religion is the belief in Lucifer, the equal of Adonay ; but Lucifer, God of Light and God of Good, is struggling for humanity against Adonay, the God of darkness and evil."

there can be no question that the elite are against Adonay Elohiym or Jesus Christ

[Agape]

I can hardly believe I've been reading this thread for a couple of days now before I really noticed the title: "The Abrahamic God is a Total Psychopath and a Disgrace to Humanity "

What that title says is that the Abrahamic God in some way represents Humanity! I think there is hardly anything further that I could add to clarify.

What the title, in my meaning says, is it's a disgrace to our intelligence to other planets in the galaxy and universe at times when hearing a large large large amount of people here believe this. It doesn't mean they think all of us are like that. but it does show humanity in a disgraceful modality of thought compared to in almost all likelihood a vast majority of planets to compared this one to.

It doesn't represent humanity in full. But it does represent a large fraction of what people believe IS reality here.

Its a complex thought with many ways to misperceive what I mean, and even then you may not agree. But if this was a telepathic convo I doubt you would disagree with my concepts....


It's an act of bravery Omni, even though the semantics is not really easy to digest and plough through and likewise this is not easy to forward to people 'the softer way' , explaining about nature of Life being entirely Good.

Humanity did not quite yet rise beyond their historical paradigm.

Likewise it's a shame if mankind believes that they were somehow 'muddled' from the dust of this planet or , the more common possibility which most kids laugh at their first biology lesson, evolved from apes . And before they were cats, dogs and donkeys , to make it more ridiculous .
Before yet, there was a seafoam called protoplasma in modern terms which gave rise to either Afrodite or Pallas Athena, sorry I forgot .


It has something to do with 'hemisynch' I suggest because you need start to think with one brain to rise beyond the eternal fight of ideas and polarities to see the truth clearly.

Most people don't dare to . The duality Good-Evil, Light-Darkness, Gods-Demons seems to be the oldest of faiths .

And Faith no matter how much we feed it, how much we give it is not Knowing. Knowledge is Peace .


To rise beyond this discrepancy can not harm anyone , the path of Knowledge has its pitfalls as does the path of Faith and Devotion,

both are equal , both are needed, and ultimately Reason = Wisdom = Love .


That's about being clear about the 3D - 4D - and more D reality instead dreaming of things that can not happen .


If people believe that God ( or anyone else in that respect ) will wave magic wand one day and do a miracle and save everything , instead using their own heads and hearts they definitely forgot where God is .





:sleep:

[thunder24]

Vegans - Ignorant murderers & hypocrites"

theres your thread title name

and as for the rest of my post, i said " i just found thread" meaning that is why it took so long to say something about the thread title.....and i have a question....

who is saying they don't understand my post...omni or A.I.?

peace

sorry i won't disturb this thread anymore

[Omni]

Vegans - Ignorant murderers & hypocrites"

If you read my OP I'm perfectly clear I'm not judging Christians, Muslims, or Jewish people as stupid. As I said, any type of belief system person can be brilliant, or stupid. I'm not stereotyping abrahamic believers in one category of people summing them up as people, as that title does. I am noting my thoughts on what I personally see a very absurd things in an early developing race here(us). I personified that with my quote:

"we are not our opinions of beliefs, we just hold them"


Just sharing my perspective. If you do not agree it does not have to get personal(not saying you posted personal text). Just debate me where you think I'm wrong, maybe I'll admit I was wrong, maybe you will explore you own views more and have a better depth of your own reality...

This thread is not meant to disrespect christians...

I can see how it might offend some people in a very minor way, the title, but I was not allowed to be aware of this when making the thread title, but they are my true opinions, which I have clarified.

who is saying they don't understand my post...omni or A.I.?

Me.

[RedeZra]

To rise beyond this discrepancy can not harm anyone , the path of Knowledge has its pitfalls as does the path of Faith and Devotion,

both are equal , both are needed, and ultimately Reason = Wisdom = Love .




reason is the rule of the Georgia guidestones

there is a real danger to become blinded by intellect


no human brain alone or all coupled in series can figure out God who is beyond the grasp of reason

[thunder24]

Omni,

I just had a thought when posting that what is offensive to one is not to others....it was more to make a point to others than to you...actually not to you at all....

and i donot care to debate it...but thanks for the invitation:flypig:

who is me?

peace

and yes the God in the Bible seemed to be kinda threatning alot

[RedeZra]

no i don't think YHWH is a psychopath for destroying the Caanan culture of child sacrifices

they got 400 years to stop this sin so plenty of time to change their ways

only so long does God tolerate evil before He strikes

Why allow us freewill and have a judgement day then?
If he is just going to destroy ''evil'' when he chooses?


I have spoken with God

and He told me to tell that Sith

that he is starting to piss Me off lol jk


the world has been destroyed many times before

and the souls that make it lives on

as angels cherubs and seraphims


those that don't make it are deconstructed

done and not remembered anymore

[Lord Sidious]

no i don't think YHWH is a psychopath for destroying the Caanan culture of child sacrifices

they got 400 years to stop this sin so plenty of time to change their ways

only so long does God tolerate evil before He strikes

Why allow us freewill and have a judgement day then?
If he is just going to destroy ''evil'' when he chooses?


I have spoken with God

and He told me to tell that Sith

that he is starting to piss Me off lol jk


the world has been destroyed many times before

and the souls that make it lives on

as angels cherubs and seraphims


those that don't make it are deconstructed

done and not remembered anymore

Tell your god that there are many down here who are pissed off with him and his antics.
But not to worry, enki will help us.
Oh, by the way, you didn't answer my questions, you just continued to preach at me.

[stardustaquarion]

I found this in John Lamb Lash website, it was quite a revelation and it has been very healing for me to understand the origins of the human curse that need not be. Perhaps times are changing and we will grow out of these oppresive structures and peoples

quote
Zaddikim "The Righteous Ones, the Most Perfect," the name of a splinter cult of ultra-radical Jews whose beliefs and practices are recorded in the Dead Sea Scrolls. From the Hebrew word Tzaddik, "righteous." Pronounced ZAD-dee-KEEM.

The Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered in caves south of Jerusalem in 1947, but the significance of these documents, many of which date from the first century of the Common Era, was kept from the world for nearly fifty years. In 1991 a man named Herschel Shanks, editor of the Biblical Archeology Review, working in close alliance with Biblical scholars, broke the Vatican's control on DSS research and translation. (The story is told in The Dead Sea Scrolls Deception, listed in recommended reading under Basic Orientation to Metahistory.) The main scholar whose work on the DSS led the breakthrough, and entirely redefined Biblical studies, was Robert Eisenman. His interpretation of the content of the scrolls, and, even more importantly, of their authorship, completely upsets all previous theories of the origins of Christianity.

One of the most widespread beliefs about the religion founded on the person of Jesus Christ is that it somehow grew out of ancient Judaism, the tribal religion of the Hebrews dating back to the time of the patriarch Abraham (circa 1800 BCE). As the story goes, Jesus was a reformist rabbi who looked beyond doctrinal Judaism toward ethical teachings that apply to humankind universally, rather than to the Jews as a separate race, or even as the "Chosen People," but he was not merely that. He was also a superhuman or supernatural agent of God's will. In some manner, which is endlessly explained by apologists, the wrathful "Father God" of the Old Testament has been equated with the loving "Father in Heaven" who sent a supernatural intercessor, his only-begotten son, Jesus, to redeem the sins of the world. Although orthodox Jews reject Jesus as the long-awaited "Messiah" of their pre-Christian faith, and deny the superhuman status attributed to "Jesus Christ," most Christians assume that Jesus really was the messianic figure the ancient Jews were expecting, and they insist on his unique status of divinity.

Zero Tolerance

Eisenman's work, supplemented by the investigations of other scholars such as Hugh Schonfield and John Allegro, shows that the rites, the ethics and the ideology (that is, the supernatural element) of Christianity did not emerge from mainstream Judaism, but from the beliefs held by a minor sect of ultra-radical Jews who were violently at odds with their own tradition. In no way was Christianity a simple outgrowth of the everyday Judaism that flourished in ancient Palestine, maintaining a peaceful coexistence with Pagan religion in its rainbow coalition of local cults and sects. Devout Jews of the pre-Christian era followed strict rules of hygeine and ritual, certainly, but they did not impose their way of life on non-Jews. Like Paganism, Palestinian Judaism was innately tolerant, adopting a social philosophy of live and let live. Scholars such as Martin Hengel (Judaism and Hellenism, 1974) have shown that Judaism, even in its strictest orthodoxy, co-existed peacefully with the Greco-Oriental Mysteries in ancient Palestine, including the cult centers where Gnostic taught and initiated.

The Zaddikim were anything but tolerant, however, and they wished to impose their views on the entire world — or the world be damned. In fact, this little-known sect introduced into the religious life of humanity the notion of a superhuman standard for human behavior, a standard impossible to realize in human and corporeal terms. Tzaddik, "absolute righteousness," is not just an ideal for good behavior: it is a callous demand for conformity to an impossible standard of purity and self-control, an inhumane ideal. The minute sect who lived in self-exile in the caves by the Dead Sea were infected with the belief that they were, if not better than the rest of humanity, at least cognizant of what was required to be better, to excell and surpass the human race, to be Tzaddik, pure and righteous. This ideal was incorporated by Christianity into the figure of the human/divine hybrid, Jesus Christ.

Wrathful Buddha: Buffalo-headed Vajrabhairava, image
of the enlightened mind dispelling the demons of error.
(Linrothe and Watt, Divine Demonic, cat. 50)

The Power Behind the Messiah

Of course, the entire Jewish world awaited the coming of the Messiah, their racial-religious liberator, since the days of the Babylonian Exile (circa 600 BCE). But the Zaddikkim sect held special notions regarding the identity of the long-awaited King. According to the secret teachings of the Zaddikite elect, even the Messiah (who was in fact two Messiahs in one, but that is another story) was not the ultimate model, for there was a power hidden behind the Messiah, and that power alone was the ultimate source of spiritual authority for the Zaddikite elect. The name of this entity was rarely spoken, and his operations were jealously guarded from the time of the first Jewish king, Saul.

Yet Saul of Tarsus, who became known as the Apostle Paul, arrogantly declared the secret teaching he had received in Damascus when he was abducted, brainwashed, and converted to the Zaddikite cause (as Robert Eisenman explains, or as may be inferred from his explanations of the political features of the DSS). It is extremely strange that theologians and lay devotees of the Christian faith studiously ignore the bizarre disclosure of "Saint Paul." It occurs in Hebrews, Chapter 5, where Paul discusses the authority of the "priesthood" he hopes to establish through faith in the divine-human hybrid, "Christ Jesus":

For every high priest taken among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God... And no man taketh this honor unto himself. So also Christ glorified not himself to be made a high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day I have begotten thee. And he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek... And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation to all that obey him; called of God an high priest after the order of Melchizedek. (5, 1- 10)

Paul explains that to have a Messiah, literally "the anointed," one must have an anointer. The Hebrew word "messiah" was applied to a Jewish king anointed with holy oil, after the model of the entronement of sacred kings throughout the Middle East (although the adoption of the rites of sacred kingship by the ancient Hebrews was an anomaly, an aberration in their religious life — but that, too, is another story.) Christ, from the Greek verb khrio, "anointing," is Paul's substitution for "Messiah." Both Christ and Messiah mean "the anointed one," but with the shift from Hebrew to Greek this term acquires a supernatural spin. Or to say it otherwise, in the Pauline Christ the secret, superhuman identity of the Zaddikite Messiah becomes disclosed.

Chirst is the Anointed One, as every Christian knows. But who did the anointing? For someone to be anointed, there must be someone of a higher spiritual standing who anoints. Anointing is an empowerment, but the transfer of power must be from the anointer, who bestows it, to the anointed, who receives it. In his amazing disclosure, Paul declares the obvious: the Christ-Messiah must receive his power and authority from elsewhere: "Christ glorified not himself to be made a high priest." Most theologians would argue that it is from the Father God, Jehovah, that the anointing power derives, and that it was symbolically enacted through the baptism by John in the Jordan, but Paul tells a different story. He attributes the power to anoint (or ordain) Christ to a secret agent, Melchizedek. This name means "prince or regent" (melchi-) of "righteousness" (zaddik).

Paul continues his disclosure of Zaddikite secret doctrine by describing in a specific manner the nature of the Anointer, Melchizedek:

First being by interpretation King of Righteousness, and after that also, King of Salem, which is King of Peace; Without father, without mother, having neither beignning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually. (7, 2- 3)

Search where you will, but you will rarely find a reference to Melchizedek as the spiritual authority behind Christ. Apart from Paul's astonishing disclosure, this figure is only mentioned a few times in the Bible. In the Old Testament (Genesis, 14) , Melchizedek, accompanied by two other "angelic" figures, appears to Abraham at the grove of Mamre. This meeting has widely been interpreted as an ET encounter "of the fourth kind" in ET/UFO lore and Biblical Ufology. Anyone who closely reads Paul's description of Melchizedek may well wonder what kind of entity is being indicated. A human or humanoid form that is neither born nor dies, has no parentage or genetics in human terms, and lives perpetually, i.e., in possession of virtual immortality — what manner of creature is this? Today we have a word for it, a word that begins, like Christ, with a c.

Melchizedek is the secret agent behind the Zaddikite ideology of divine (read: impossible) perfection, which also implies divine retribution for all those who do not meet the Transhuman Ideal, or who harm and oppose those who revere the Transhuman Ideal, the faithful ones who look to it for their salvation, for their release from the human condition. Here is the source of what George Steiner has called "the blackmail of transcendence," the inhumane belief system that arose, not from Judaic religion, but from the Zaddakim. (Bluebeard's Castle, cited in Paul Shepard, Nature and Madness, p. 58.) Steiner wrote that "the creed of Sinai tore up the human psyche by its most ancient roots," (p. 38) but the Zaddikite ideology of perfection was even more devastating than the guilt-complex incurred by the divinely ordained rules of the Mosaic Code. "The Judaic summons to perfection" (Steiner again, cited in Shepard, p. 106) has put a curse upon the entire world.

The Transhuman Ideal is the main psychological tool of the Dominator mindset (cf. Terence McKenna, Riane Eisler) that operates in the religious-governmental alliance of the global power game. Whether those who propogate the Ideal are Nazis or Neocons — and lately it is pretty hard to tell the dfference — the effect is the same: dissociation from the human condition and alienation from the body ("the basic schizoid position," Sherpar, p. 85) Melchizedek lurks in the long dark shadow of patriarchy.

But Gnostics, who could stand in the darkness even while they downloaded the Light, were aware of what hides in that shadow. Among the Mystery centers in Palestine was the encampment of the Archontics, just below Qumran Khirbet on the west bank of the Dead Sea. Gnostic seers detected the Archons by the paranormal faculties they acquired through training in the Mysteries, but they also perceived the infection of an alien mindset in the doctrines of the Zaddikites. In violation of their sacred vow of anonymity, some Gnostics came out openly and protested the Judeo-Christian ideology of the Divine Redeemer, the Christ-Messiah anointed by Melchizedek. They warned against the "counterfeiting spirit" (antimimon) of the Archons, "who lead Adam astray so that it might lose its connection to the Pleroma." (The Apocryphon of John, II, 21). For Gnostics, "Adam" was the code-word for the true humanitas, as well as for our capacity to recognize it: to know ourselves. They attributed the virulent and hateful emotions of the Zaddakite fanatics, horrifically evident in the language of the Dead Sea Scrolls, to madness due to Archontic deviation:

From the grief [and desperation, that causes humans to submit to the Archons] came envy, jealousy, distress, trouble and pain, callousness, anxiety, mourning, and more. [By the pleasure of the Archons] such wickedness arises, along with empty pride, and all it entails. And from the desire [to be other than human] come anger, wrath, bitterness and embittered passions. And from the fear [of failing to be human] come dread, fawning, agony, and shame. And these are useful things, as well as dreadful things. (The Apocryphon of John, II, 18)

This passage reads like an inventory of the emotions expressed in page after page of the Qumranic writings. It ends with the astute observation that, as horrible as these feelings are, they are useful to some people. I wonder who that could be?

The beliefs of the Zaddikim present some of the most intolerant and hateful ideas ever spawned by the human mind. Both in language and content, the Dead Sea Scrolls literally seethe with hatred. In passage after passage, these sectarian writings incite racial and religious violence. They are blatant testaments to virulent and genocidal rage. They alternately scream damnation and plead for retribution. They call for the destruction of the world by supernatural powers so that those faithful to the ideal of Tzaddik can be "culled" from the lot, rescued from the well-deserved damnation of the human race. The Tzaddikim resemble a combination of the Branch Davidians of Waco and the Heaven's Gate suicide cult, with all the worst features of these sects magnified to the tenth degree.

And this madness was the source of Christian religion.

Gnostic spies on the Dead Sea who attempted to alert the general population to the dangers of Zaddikite salvationist ideology were silenced, and the Mystery Schools were targeted for eradication, "spiritual cleansing." But in the fragments of Gnostic teaching that survive, the warning is clear enough:

Others [who claim to know Mysteries] will change the meaning by evil means, distorted words, and will impose misleading mysteries. Those who do not understand the true experience of the Mysteries will speak as if they do understand, and will boast that the truth is theirs alone... In arrogance, and filled with unnatural pride, they shall envy the immortal soul... for the wish of the Archons is to appropriate what they lack from the creation of this world [nous, the dose of divine intelligence], the intellectual spirit. And so they join forces with those they have misled.

Many others, also, who oppose truth and are messengers of error (plane) will set up their errors into a system of law to work against the pure knowing of the heart, and looking from their distorted perspective, will believe that good and evil are from the same source [the Father God].

And they will propagate a harsh fate for the entire world.

The Apocalypse of Peter, 77 ff.
unquote

http://www.metahistory.org/Lexicon/lexicon_Z.php

[RedeZra]

Tell your god that there are many down here who are pissed off with him and his antics.
But not to worry, enki will help us.
Oh, by the way, you didn't answer my questions, you just continued to preach at me.

there is no my or your God but our God

the Creator and Lover of our beautiful souls


then there is a Deceiver who divides and decieves our minds

so we loose touch with our souls

and begin to believe a lie


like God is not One and a Lover of our souls

and that God must be evil since He kills bodies


but what is a body if not a vehicle for the soul

and you have heard the truth

that it is much better to loose the body than to loose the soul


the body will die again and again

but the soul only dies once


and God loves our souls so much

that it pains Him to see our minds so easily deceived

and tricked down the path to soul destruction


the body will be born and die many times

the soul is born once and dies once

[ktlight]

To rise beyond this discrepancy can not harm anyone , the path of Knowledge has its pitfalls as does the path of Faith and Devotion,

both are equal , both are needed, and ultimately Reason = Wisdom = Love .


reason is the rule of the Georgia guidestones

there is a real danger to become blinded by intellect

no human brain alone or all coupled in series can figure out God who is beyond the grasp of reason

God is LOVE. Most do not understand what LOVE is. God is not beyond us. We are capable of communicating one to one with God. I speak not of the god of the bible here, who I think is the opposite.

[meeradas]

browsing through all this here... the only thing i can think is

OMG

[RedeZra]

God is LOVE. Most do not understand what LOVE is. God is not beyond us. We are capable of communicating one to one with God.

God is Love and God is Just


God is way beyond our intellects and that's why the exercise of reason or rationality has figured out that there is no God

God is way beyond our minds capacity to fathom Him


sure we can communicate with God but that doesn't mean we understand the full scope of God




I speak not of the god of the bible here, who I think is the opposite.

here you are just using reason and emotion on an aspect of God that you don't understand nor like

read the Bible yourself from cover to cover instead of letting other people form your opinions about it

then you will see it all makes perfect sense

[Lord Sidious]

So you just ignore the inconvenient questions and continue to preach at me?
He is not my god, regardless of what you say and I would appreciate you stop pushing that down my throat.

[RedeZra]

So you just ignore the inconvenient questions and continue to preach at me?


i'm not here to spoon-feed forever

i'm formulating truths wich you can taste like an apple with no worm in it

[Lord Sidious]

So you just ignore the inconvenient questions and continue to preach at me?


i'm not here to spoon-feed forever

i'm formulating truths wich you can taste like an apple with no worm in it

I thought you were here to debate, so that is my mistake.
I should have realised that isn't on your agenda.
And how can you formulate truths? Do you seriously believe you know the truth?
I suspect that I know a lot of it, but I could be very wrong.
I don't see that in your posts, the concept that you could be wrong.

[RedeZra]

And how can you formulate truths? Do you seriously believe you know the truth?


the Truth is a direct experience and it is a consuming fire


then we have truths which each and every soul know

the trick is to be in touch with the soul


not the mind but the soul ; )

[Lord Sidious]

And how can you formulate truths? Do you seriously believe you know the truth?


the Truth is a direct experience and it is a consuming fire


then we have truths which each and every soul know

the trick is to be in touch with the soul


not the mind but the soul ; )

That is YOUR truth, not THE truth.
Sometimes, they can indeed be the same, but I doubt that many of the people alive including you and me have THE truth.
You do realise that preaching at us rather than debating not just turns people off, but insinuates that you can't debate?

[ktlight]

God is LOVE. Most do not understand what LOVE is. God is not beyond us. We are capable of communicating one to one with God.

God is Love and God is Just

God is way beyond our intellects and that's why the exercise of reason or rationality has figured out that there is no God

God is way beyond our minds capacity to fathom Him

sure we can communicate with God but that doesn't mean we understand the full scope of God


I speak not of the god of the bible here, who I think is the opposite.

here you are just using reason and emotion on an aspect of God that you don't understand nor like

read the Bible yourself from cover to cover instead of letting other people form your opinions about it

then you will see it all makes perfect sense

Your remarks are quite condescending. What makes you think I have not read the bible, as well as most, if not all, of the other existing religions. I was brought up from childhood in religion. You are not ready to listen nor to allow God to be and understand god IS ONLY LOVE. This is not unusual for stuck people. Prepare to do battle with your mind, which is ruled by Satan until you take it back, which you will know if you have done your seeking. You can get over it.

God is LOVE. Language was invented by man.

[meeradas]

TRUTH is inexpressible. It is.

[Violet]

Well, for Abraham's information to travel to us here and now, a long way has been met. Since you nor I have all the necessary details of this voyage nor do we know which obstacles were met, which (bad) intentions and what disinformation has infiltrated in these religions, I'm a bit more careful in making such hard judgments.

I also don't see how God can be a disgrace to humanity. Do you believe the Abrahamic God to be part of humanity?

[KosmicKat]

Aside from the character of the "Abrahamic God" (taking the Bible as a whole, he comes across as being affected by multiple personality disorder), it seems that often people with a strong religious belief see themselves in a similar role to that of someone trying to rescue the occupants of a burning building. There is a problem in that the majority of the occupants don't want to acknowledge the smoke and flames, while a genuinely concerned person is just trying to get them out of harm.

And there does seem to be a big problem with people who use their religious beliefs to channel and focus their aggression towards groups that they identify as "unacceptable" within their own belief and morality systems.

[postscript]
Another thing that is bothering me greatly is the Bible's insistence that it, and only it, is the word of God - don't peek behind the curtain at the books that were once considered part of the canon, but later dismissed. Don't believe what any of the other religious (or irreligious) texts say. Don't, for any reason, question the authority of the Bible!

To explain myself, for a long time, I have followed a code which can be briefly and broadly summarized as "Go where you're sent, do what you're told, and don't ask questions", meaning that I am sent to an assignment for a reason, not necessarily knowing why I am sent. I have no qualms about accepting that. I am given directions when necessary. I can choose to follow them, or ignore them at my own peril (done that once or twice, and learned quickly). The thing about not asking questions means not indulging idle curiosity. If there is something I need to know, I will be told, or directed to an answer. But questions asked on a whim will be ignored.
[end of postscript]

I hope I haven't derailed the thread with these comments. If anyone considers them worth a response, perhaps we should start a separate thread to pursue them?

[Agape]

And how can you formulate truths? Do you seriously believe you know the truth?


the Truth is a direct experience and it is a consuming fire


then we have truths which each and every soul know

the trick is to be in touch with the soul


not the mind but the soul ; )

That is YOUR truth, not THE truth.
Sometimes, they can indeed be the same, but I doubt that many of the people alive including you and me have THE truth.
You do realise that preaching at us rather than debating not just turns people off, but insinuates that you can't debate?



And for debates sake ...this is my point and what is missing with many people is knowledge or even the faith that there is discernable, logical and meaningful Truth behind the veil of illusion and ignorance .

It's been the point and reason why religions were created and survived so long feeding peoples faith in the 'Great Unknown' that can not be understood .
I don't speak about the Source of Creation of intelligent life in the universe now,
but I speak about THE Truth that concerns people on Earth.

The truth was considered Tabu within all major and minor religious systems, shrines and orders .
It was not to be questioned, talked about, it was labeled inaccessible .

It was 'The Truth' that no one can know. The Truth itself was elevated to the level of unknown Deity .

And now you /we still go around it .. and we're not able to address it openly .


And how do I know ..


And of course..religious doctrines were replaced with era of nihilism and faith in 'big void' and relativity of phenomena, another 'top concept' for humans of the day , why . Because they have to struggle to understand even that concept. Not to speak of what is beyond ..


Which in turn brings a whole new generation of researchers who believe that the Truth is beyond determination, something like infinite floored mansion where everyone is allowed to have his piece of dream and room , and that 's their philosophy and teaching .


I've been fighting with the concept since very young age that's why I'm telling, not everyone has the same 'truth sense' and determination to find out ..



Can everyone who want to know , seriously and straight , find out by themselves ?


I hope it's the case ..



;)

[Agape]

Many people claim to be truth seekers, researchers, scientists ...but the test is about as it follows ..

No matter what the Source is ... there may come something, someone in your life who reveals the truth to you . It can be a Sage or a small kid . That's about the miracle of Life . You never know but once you do know, you also know that you know, the doubts are gone.

And while you approach these so called serious truth seekers, no matter how many academic titles they sign with to underline how serious they are, no matter how many doubts they have ..

and tell them that you know the Truth and want to share ..

and see that they start to giggle somewhere inside because they actually don't believe that Truth can or should come to daylight , they even don't believe that it exists, they don't believe that anyone could know ..

and start quoting you all the other people they already spoke to , scriptures or holy Bible and what the majority will think about it ..

defending their doubts with both hands ..


you see they're not genuine truth seekers, researchers and scientists. They're another little kids on the playground .




;)

[RedeZra]

the Truth is a direct experience and it is a consuming fire



That is YOUR truth, not THE truth.
Sometimes, they can indeed be the same, but I doubt that many of the people alive including you and me have THE truth.


the Truth is Enlightenment

and does not change and is the same today yesterday tomorrow for each and every one

it is an established estate and experience for the enlightened

and a push and a flash for the seeker of it


i'm not enlightened but i'm on my way ; )

[RedeZra]

Your remarks are quite condescending.

You are not ready to listen nor to allow God to be and understand god IS ONLY LOVE. This is not unusual for stuck people. Prepare to do battle with your mind, which is ruled by Satan until you take it back, which you will know if you have done your seeking. You can get over it.


only egos can be bruised by my words

God is not just Love Get over it and Get that God is Just too



and here is a mystery


the just hand of the Father

will not touch those

who have sought the mercy of the Son