Deutsche Bank CEO Just Gave a 'Terrifying Speech' In Frankfurt..!

[jackovesk]

Josef Ackermann just gave a terrifying speech about the fragility of the Euro banking sector right now.

http://static7.businessinsider.com/image/867a6c7966f219490ea9df00/ackermann.jpg

At the conference in Frankfurt he said, "It is an open secret that numerous European banks would not survive having to revalue sovereign debt held on the banking book at market levels."

We have translated the speech based on Handelsbatt's, the organizer of the event where Ackermann spoke, account of it.

"In recent weeks, the distrust of the financial markets has spread to the banks because they are now suffering from the debt crisis in Europe and have a lot of exposure to, for example, Greek bonds."

"Since the financial crisis, some European banks have lost a third or more of their market capitalization," he said, according to Google Translate.

"Most institutions have a rating of "below the book value or at best."

There are three major stress factors crushing Euro banks right now, he says: the debt crisis, structural factors and financial regulation. With them together, it will be hard for the European banks to increase their revenues.

The implication is that not just Eurozone countries are buckling under the pressure of Greece's, France's, and Italy's debts, but banks are too. It sounds like a desperate call for a bailout. Now.

However he says, "State funds could use means to put stability back into many companies and countries, but that does not remain the only solution."

Still, the situation he describes looks dire. He says, "Many countries and households would have to reduce their debt. The mortgage business and consumer loans were [the few things] driving growth. In addition, there's the problem of shrinking populations in several European countries, which negatively affects the growth of credit markets."

"All this reminds one of the autumn of 2008," said Ackermann. "We should resign ourselves to the fact that the 'new normality' is characterized by volatility and uncertainty."

Some hedge funds, like in 2007 and 2008, saw the enormity of the Eurozone debt crisis and began betting against Euro banks and other companies that have exposure to the crisis earlier this year. Their profits have already started to pay off.

As for the rest of the financial industry, things don't look good.

Here's what Ackermann sees: "Prospects for the financial sector overall... are rather limited."

"We have a financial industry that is still not really providing convincing answers to the questions about the meaningfulness of many modern financial products and trading in securities. The questions are getting louder and require new responses."

He also believes high frequency trading needs to be investigated more. He said regulators and the banks need to begin a dialogue to examine the effects of HFT in the markets, so as to avoid imbalances in the markets.

However a consequence of all of this scrutiny is that growth prospects for banks are low.

"The outlook for the future growth of revenues is limited by both the current situation and structurally."

The banks will have to ask how they can be more long-term investors in order to gain more stability in financial markets.

"We must in my opinion, check all our work in all areas thoroughly again to ascertain whether we prioritize our genuine tasks as servants of the real economic needs."


But immediately, the Euro banking sector must prepare for what happens if solutions to the Eurozone crisis and corresponding Euro banking crisis remain unsupported or nonexistent.


However recapitalization is not the answer. Ackermann duly shot down the measure suggested by IMF head Christine Lagarde at Jackson Hole.

He said recapitalizing the banks urgently, as Lagarde suggested, would be "counterproductive."

"A forced recapitalization would give the signal that politicians do not themselves believe in the measures" they are negotiating.

As a result, it could exacerbate the debt situation in individual countries. Also, faced with a threat of dilution (a result of recapitalization), private investments in banks would be even less likely.

Another measure that he does not think will help, he says, is dissolving the Eurozone. "The costs of supporting weak member states, particularly from the German perspective, are less than the costs of disintegration.... It is a dangerous illusion to believe that a country could do better should it reclaim the sovereignty it has delegated to the EU."

Sounds like Ackermann just sounded the alarm. There is now a full-on Euro banking crisis.

The conference he's at continues tomorrow. It's entitled "Banks in Transition," and it's organized by the German business daily Handelsblatt.

Here's a couple of videos of him giving the speech. Warning they are in German.

http://www.businessinsider.com/josef-ackermann-euro-banks-speech-frankfurt-2011-9#ixzz1X6jaeDd8

PS - Criticising the IMF and yet not wanting to dissolve the Eurozone..?

:nono:

Me thinks just another Globalist CEO, different policy views but reading from the same NWO Globalist page..!

We all know the real GFC "II' is upon us and it will happen sooner rather than later. Be Prepared..!

Its gonna get 'Ugly'..!

[Ilie Pandia]

I did not understand half of the economic terms and I suspect that most in the general public will not understand.

All I hear is growth, growth, more and more money otherwise we collapse. Well, that's exactly how a Ponzi scheme works, doesn't it? It needs growth to keep he illusion that all is OK.

Now his quote was interesting:


It is a dangerous illusion to believe that a country could do better should it reclaim the sovereignty it has delegated to the EU.


So in fact we (the countries that have joined the EU) have actually delegated our sovereignty to a foreign party. I'm pretty sure that violates at least some part of the constitution.

[ktlight]

No mention of the fact that these debts are imaginary, non-existent in reality, in truth. Printing money out of air is a stretch of the imagination, and imposing debt equally. How can debt be reality in such a scenario?

They treat it like its real and we accept it?

[Lord Sidious]

I did not understand half of the economic terms and I suspect that most in the general public will not understand.

All I hear is growth, growth, more and more money otherwise we collapse. Well, that's exactly how a Ponzi scheme works, doesn't it? It needs growth to keep he illusion that all is OK.

Now his quote was interesting:


It is a dangerous illusion to believe that a country could do better should it reclaim the sovereignty it has delegated to the EU.


So in fact we (the countries that have joined the EU) have actually delegated our sovereignty to a foreign party. I'm pretty sure that violates at least some part of the constitution.

He was basically saying that the system is working as designed and planned, there will be a lot of fluctuations due to trading and that things aren't looking good for the debtors who have to repay the debts.
For us, all good news.

[jackovesk]

I did not understand half of the economic terms and I suspect that most in the general public will not understand.

All I hear is growth, growth, more and more money otherwise we collapse. Well, that's exactly how a Ponzi scheme works, doesn't it? It needs growth to keep he illusion that all is OK.

Now his quote was interesting:


It is a dangerous illusion to believe that a country could do better should it reclaim the sovereignty it has delegated to the EU.


So in fact we (the countries that have joined the EU) have actually delegated our sovereignty to a foreign party. I'm pretty sure that violates at least some part of the constitution.

Correct Ilie Pandia,

The NWO Globalists 'HATE SOVEREIGNTY' and will/are doing anything they possibly can to 'ELIMINATE' the borders throughout the world.

They 'HATE CULTURE' they want to break down all Countries Individual Identity & Culture, that's why they are heavily into Political Correctness & Multiculturalism and the Break down of the family unit..!

[Operator]

All I hear is growth, growth, more and more money otherwise we collapse. Well, that's exactly how a Ponzi scheme works, doesn't it? It needs growth to keep he illusion that all is OK.


I sometimes try to explain it like this:

Consider a monopoly game. It's a game because there can/will be a winner i.e. someone who gathered all the money.
If they don't want people to discover that the real life monopoly works the same they urgently need to print more money
and add it to the box because otherwise the game would end.

[Robert J. Niewiadomski]

Please forgive me if this is a little off topic :)


(...)So in fact we (the countries that have joined the EU) have actually delegated our sovereignty to a foreign party. I'm pretty sure that violates at least some part of the constitution.

Ilie, read artiicle 148(2) of Constitution of Romania. We have something simmilar in Constitution of Poland... I wonder if other EU countries are in same situation. If so then sovereignity of EU countries is a toast already...

And I stopped to worry about it and started to see it as a little silly game...

Operator summed it up accuratelly ;) I never liked to play monopolly... I do not like to take money from orther people...

[edit]
In the long run dissolving of artificial borders will benefit humanity. As for regional diversity, we do not have to worry :) Look how many diversity is in any single country... Local architecture, local dialects and such... Every major step at dismantling "nationalities" is preceded with national ballot question. Every one of us have free will and every one of us is personnaly obliged to respect it...

[OnyxKnight]

I did not understand half of the economic terms and I suspect that most in the general public will not understand.

All I hear is growth, growth, more and more money otherwise we collapse. Well, that's exactly how a Ponzi scheme works, doesn't it? It needs growth to keep he illusion that all is OK.

Now his quote was interesting:


It is a dangerous illusion to believe that a country could do better should it reclaim the sovereignty it has delegated to the EU.


So in fact we (the countries that have joined the EU) have actually delegated our sovereignty to a foreign party. I'm pretty sure that violates at least some part of the constitution.

This is why there is a growing dislike of the EU in my country. There is an anti-EU movement too. Its still small, but growing.

To the rest that are not joined to the EU, but plan/are about to:

- You don't know what you are getting yourselves into.

[Lazlo]

"We have a financial industry that is still not really providing convincing answers to the questions about the meaningfulness of many modern financial products and trading in securities. The questions are getting louder and require new responses."


That is the most revealing sentence in the entire speech. Translated into plain speak it reads: "We are finally figuring out that derivatives, MBS's, CDS's, and the like serve no real purpose except to shear the sheep. And damnit, I am just figuring out that the I am a sheep like everyone else."

[Carmody]

Creating the idea of money and then script based on mechanisms that are out of public understanding through subterfuge and lack of clarity, has been a mechanism of the elites since before the popularized points of known history.

Meaning, they've been at this, eve on record for about 3 times the length of the time since the most modern version of the Christ story.

Meaning, there's a hidden hand in the background that goes deeper than the length of time of suspected history, never mind known history.

I've spent my youth like most, and that is by trying to understand the problem and fix it.

Point is that we've spent our time, even in the most perfect seeming solutions, in an act of putting tourniquets around limb stumps to stop the flow of blood.

We have to go the t point where the limb is removed, and that is what is deeper than the banking issue.

The banks are just a mechanism, a tool, a level, nothing more. They've never been anything less than that and are certainly not more (than just a tool).

Find the source point.

The fears want rubber on the ground (and as soon as possible), they chimeras to attack ---and will make one for you if you can't find the real one.

Ever had a box of kittens and then gently stroke the ear of one, so it flips and suddenly attacks the one beside it, as it thinks the kitten beside it was and is --the attacker and issue?

This is what a bank and the economy is. It is a chimera, it is nothing.

Your real problem is what is BEHIND the bank.

Go for the source.

Until you do that, you'll be spending the rest of your life, if you get to have one, you'll be spending that time fixing wounds that appear to come from unknown quarters.

Find the manipulators who lurk behind the scenes, lurking behind the facades of the banking mechanisms.

[bonnyhut]

My best mate Stuart who is an expert on the financial system says "WE ARE THE CURRENCY." This whole banking crisis is all an illusion and a joke. If I want to exchange my potatoes for a massage from you and neither of us have any money why can we still not make the exchange? Or find another way to make the exchange?? Money is a symbol for energy and we can use anything of value to represent that energy. We can go back to using silver and gold coins immediately for they have their own innate, intrinsic value. It all a joke.

WE ARE THE CURRENCY!!
WE ARE THE CURRENCY!!

So if I want to exchange my painting for your chicken bone stew I will find a way and the Illuminati can mind their own business without taking a cut from each and every transaction.
We are allowing them to steal from us. We are responsible for buying into the illusion of scarcity and limitation that does not exist at all.

Cut out the controlling middle man and back to immediate world wide abundance and prosperity!!

[jackovesk]

Creating the idea of money and then script based on mechanisms that are out of public understanding through subterfuge and lack of clarity, has been a mechanism of the elites since before the popularized points of known history.

Meaning, they've been at this, eve on record for about 3 times the length of the time since the most modern version of the Christ story.

Meaning, there's a hidden hand in the background that goes deeper than the length of time of suspected history, never mind known history.

I've spent my youth like most, and that is by trying to understand the problem and fix it.

Point is that we've spent our time, even in the most perfect seeming solutions, in an act of putting tourniquets around limb stumps to stop the flow of blood.

We have to go the t point where the limb is removed, and that is what is deeper than the banking issue.

The banks are just a mechanism, a tool, a level, nothing more. They've never been anything less than that and are certainly not more (than just a tool).

Find the source point.

The fears want rubber on the ground (and as soon as possible), they chimeras to attack ---and will make one for you if you can't find the real one.

Ever had a box of kittens and then gently stroke the ear of one, so it flips and suddenly attacks the one beside it, as it thinks the kitten beside it was and is --the attacker and issue?

This is what a bank and the economy is. It is a chimera, it is nothing.

Your real problem is what is BEHIND the bank.

Go for the source.

Until you do that, you'll be spending the rest of your life, if you get to have one, you'll be spending that time fixing wounds that appear to come from unknown quarters.

Find the manipulators who lurk behind the scenes, lurking behind the facades of the banking mechanisms.

Spot On Carmody...

I wish this could be broadcast throughout the world 24/7...

To eliminate 'The Source' is the Beginning of the End to the NWO Globalist Cabal...

[Ba-ba-Ra]

Carmody and Bonnyhut I agree with what you are both saying - and I suspect there are many others who have seen or are beginning to see past what they are telling us is/are the problems. -- The BIG question is HOW do we dismantle the manipulaters?

How do we get rid of the Federal Reserve I understand your concept of exchanging services and products directly Bonnyhut, but try to make it work. [B]HOW does one pay their utility bills with painting, eggs, or massages. How does one purchase gas, etc. ... ??

And Carmody, I agree that the system is broken and was a bad system to begin with and we shouldn't just be thinking of how to band-aid it together, because then we're just stuck with more of the same which is IMO rotten at the core, but again I ask --- [B]HOW do we change it?

And yes I believe in prayer and miracles, but I also recognize when you are out in the middle of the ocean in a rubber raft surrounded by sharks, Yes pray, yes surround yourself with light, but you also need to start paddling like hell. From my perspective, we better start paddling - but to what place and then what system do we put into place when we get there?

I know, I know, I have lots of questions, and no answers, but I'm hoping to begin dialogue or at least provoke thought. Thanks for listening.

[Maia Gabrial]

If only the bankers could be ruined (without the rest of us getting sucked into it). That would be great.
I like the idea of them losing all their money and wealth, finally....That would be a humbling eye opener for them. Maybe they'll give the money back to us....
Nah! Wishful thinking....

[GlassSteagallfan]

If only the bankers could be ruined (without the rest of us getting sucked into it). That would be great.
I like the idea of them losing all their money and wealth, finally....That would be a humbling eye opener for them. Maybe they'll give the money back to us....
Nah! Wishful thinking....

Not wishful thinking, Maia. The bankers can be ruined by the passage of HR 1489 (Glass Steagall Act) which is growing in support day by day. There is still pain in a recovery of this magnitude, but plans are in place for a major recovery program - just needs the stroke of the pen.

Instead of getting the money back, HR 1489 gives the debt back to the creators. ISN'T THAT BETTER??? Let them pay for it!

*******************************************************************************
Related article:


Black Monday on European Markets, as the End Nears

September 6, 2011 • 9:30AM

The entire European Monetary Union is set to collapse, and not because of criminal prosecutions of leading banks and bankers. European stock markets fell sharply on Monday, led by a collapse in bank stocks. Ostensibly, the 12% crash in Royal Bank of Scotland stocks, the 9% collapse in Deutsche Bank and Société Générale stocks, and the 8% fall in Crédit Suisse stock prices were all triggered by the lawsuit filed in the U.S. on Sept. 2 by the Federal Mortgage Finance Agency (FMFA), and the parallel announcement today by the British Serious Fraud Office (SFO) that they were launching a parallel criminal probe into mortgage fraud by major international "too big to fail" banks. An article in today's Daily Telegraph warned that three key City of London banks—Royal Bank of Scotland, HSBC and Barclays—are heavily exposed in the U.S. suit and the SFO probe. RSB alone has $30.4 billion in mortgage and mortgage securities sales under scrutiny.

But the reality is much, much worse. A recent IMF report on global financial stability, portions of which were leaked to the media, warns that European banks must immediately add EU200 billion to their capital base to avoid near-term default. "This is key to cutting the chain of contagion," the report concluded.

Among the other leading factors that could bring down the entire trans-Atlantic financial system this week—just as Lyndon LaRouche warned on Saturday, Sept. 3—are:

* The imminent explosion of Italy's sovereign debt, beginning with a EU14.6 billion rollover, due this week. Between now and the end of September, Italy must roll over EU62 billion, and the total between now and Nov. 30 is a whopping EU170 billion. Yields on ten-year Italian bonds soared to 5.9% at one point last week, and if yields reach 7%, Italy will be overwhelmed by the debt bubble, according to comments made at the Cernobbio conference by leading Italian bankers and industrialists, as reported today by Reuters. Today Finance Minister Giulio Tremonti was summoned back to Rome for emergency budget talks on the eve of Tuesday's debate in the Italian Senate over the Berlusconi government's EU45.5 billion austerity budget. CGIL, Italy's largest trade union federation, has launched a nationwide protest strike over the killer austerity proposals, posing a serious threat to the survival of the Berlusconi government.

* On Sept. 7, the German Constitutional Court in Karlsruhe is expected to rule on the constitutionality of the European bailout, and any finding against the ECB and European Financial Stability Facility would blow up the entire situation.

Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, the resident MI6 mouthpiece at the Daily Telegraph warned about the doom of the euro in a column posted late Sunday, headlined "German Endgame for EMU Draws Nearer." In that column, he pointed to another break point in the EMU that could detonate this week: The Greek situation. "The EU-IMF Troika left Athens abruptly on Friday, blaming Greece for failure to comply," Evans-Pritchard wrote. "The equal failure is the scorched-earth austerity policies imposed by the EU itself... The IMF must know from its errors in Argentina a decade ago that Greece needs a 40% devaluation and 50% debt forgiveness to claw back to viability. Yet the EU has blocked both, and the fund has until now acquiesced. Perhaps there was no choice. Argentina was an isolated case in 2001. Greece is the detonating pin for the EMU. Going to the root of Greece's problem risks trauma and instant contagion to Portugal, and from there a systemic chain reaction through Spain and Italy to France." Evans-Pritchard noted that, for the EMU to survive the Italian and Greek crises, Germany would have to accept a bailout of Italy's EU1.84 trillion debt. Many in Germany's elite deem this illegal, under the German Constitution and the Maastricht Treaty.

Evans-Pritchard ominously concluded: "Germany is not a banana republic. It is a sovereign democracy under the rule of law. Europe is belatedly discovering why this matters."


Source: http://www.larouchepac.com/node/19298

**************************************************************

A full-length feature video detailing LaRouche's program, "Seven Necessary Steps for Global Economic Recovery". 40:36 minutes

http://www.larouchepac.com/node/19282

[WhiteFeather]

Anything That Is False cannot stand on its own for long, now as we all just may see the collapse of The Global Ponzi Scheme, also known as the banking system I truly believe is ready to go down the crapper.

[Richie_asg1]

I agree with most of this and Bonnyhut says it simply. Two people can trade directly, but as soon as a middleman appears, then neither gets a full share anymore. Whatever they do trade is devalued, for the middleman to make his profit. He did not toil to produce his profit, he just set up the system. His fruits are not of his labours but stolen like a thief in the night.
As long as there is debt - then the banks make their money. Even if you do manage to free yourself of debt, then there are systems that charge you for simply existing. Whether this is rates, tax or just parking fees. I strongly suspect that if the banks stop making money out of the debtors, then the Government will bail them out, then devide the bill between everyone. In the UK this has happened already - banks have been bailed out by public funds - but as a member of the public - can I ask for my share back please ? - in gold? Not cash - not tokens, not I.O.U's - something that does have a value.

[Positive Vibe Merchant]

I think the key for 'us' is just preparedness. We know it is going to happen, though we don't know when, and we also knwo that TPTB are going to do what they can to bring as many of 'us' down with them when the whole thing collapses, so just be wise about how we live, and what we are going to do. Have a plan.

I don't think wealth building at this stage of the game is the wisest move, since it could be possible its all taken from us on the way down.

PVM

[bonnyhut]

Carmody and Bonnyhut I agree with what you are both saying - and I suspect there are many others who have seen or are beginning to see past what they are telling us is/are the problems. -- The BIG question is HOW do we dismantle the manipulaters?

How do we get rid of the Federal Reserve I understand your concept of exchanging services and products directly Bonnyhut, but try to make it work. [B]HOW does one pay their utility bills with painting, eggs, or massages. How does one purchase gas, etc. ... ??

And Carmody, I agree that the system is broken and was a bad system to begin with and we shouldn't just be thinking of how to band-aid it together, because then we're just stuck with more of the same which is IMO rotten at the core, but again I ask --- [B]HOW do we change it?

And yes I believe in prayer and miracles, but I also recognize when you are out in the middle of the ocean in a rubber raft surrounded by sharks, Yes pray, yes surround yourself with light, but you also need to start paddling like hell. From my perspective, we better start paddling - but to what place and then what system do we put into place when we get there?

I know, I know, I have lots of questions, and no answers, but I'm hoping to begin dialogue or at least provoke thought. Thanks for listening.



This is a good question.

For starters, I believe step ONE is to regain a little sovereignty and do everything possible to get as many people as we can " off the grid."

If we assist each other, exchange ideas work towards it ... we can do it. (Free man on the land.) We have all the technology available to us and we may actually not have a choice soon.
Its "the grid" that can be controlled.

Growing a veggie patch, getting a solar powered generators, cars that run on veggie oil, catching and purifying rain water, working together in communities... this " financial collapse illusion" could actually end up being a great blessing and without it we would possibly never have made some important positive changes.

After we have started with step one we can begin working towards step two which is creating a sovereign currency but not from a dis-impowered place of complete dependance on the system.

Let us take our power back into our own hands and let the elite know that can stick their corrupt, fake, theiving financial system up their ****

[Lord Sidious]

My best mate Stuart who is an expert on the financial system says "WE ARE THE CURRENCY." This whole banking crisis is all an illusion and a joke. If I want to exchange my potatoes for a massage from you and neither of us have any money why can we still not make the exchange? Or find another way to make the exchange?? Money is a symbol for energy and we can use anything of value to represent that energy. We can go back to using silver and gold coins immediately for they have their own innate, intrinsic value. It all a joke.

WE ARE THE CURRENCY!!
WE ARE THE CURRENCY!!

So if I want to exchange my painting for your chicken bone stew I will find a way and the Illuminati can mind their own business without taking a cut from each and every transaction.
We are allowing them to steal from us. We are responsible for buying into the illusion of scarcity and limitation that does not exist at all.

Cut out the controlling middle man and back to immediate world wide abundance and prosperity!!

This is a very interesting statement.
Does he know about bonds and securities being traded off of our legal personas?
And that they also use us to back the currency?

[TargeT]

My best mate Stuart who is an expert on the financial system says "WE ARE THE CURRENCY." This whole banking crisis is all an illusion and a joke. If I want to exchange my potatoes for a massage from you and neither of us have any money why can we still not make the exchange? Or find another way to make the exchange?? Money is a symbol for energy and we can use anything of value to represent that energy. We can go back to using silver and gold coins immediately for they have their own innate, intrinsic value. It all a joke.

WE ARE THE CURRENCY!!
WE ARE THE CURRENCY!!

So if I want to exchange my painting for your chicken bone stew I will find a way and the Illuminati can mind their own business without taking a cut from each and every transaction.
We are allowing them to steal from us. We are responsible for buying into the illusion of scarcity and limitation that does not exist at all.

Cut out the controlling middle man and back to immediate world wide abundance and prosperity!!

This is a very interesting statement.
Does he know about bonds and securities being traded off of our legal personas?
And that they also use us to back the currency?

In the US that is why we have birth certificates and marrage certificates (to track #'s of potential profit makers ( workers) its a sad game).... also your "Social secuirty" card sets up a corporate entitiy in your name for the same purpose ( mostly to leverage UCC laws against you)... it is a game of deception and confusion and leveraging humanities biological weaknesses against itself.

very facinating to study.



THE KEY is to UNDERSTAND this is a game that has been set up LONG AGO by people who have a far better grasp on the situation than us, it was designed to be as it is, if we do not recognizes this and expose the source(s) we will continue to fall deeper into its controls as we police our selfs for exterior motives.

[Lord Sidious]

This is what I am getting at TargeT.
What is your interest in this?

[TargeT]

This is what I am getting at TargeT.
What is your interest in this?

My interest? curiosity I guess.. apparently I need more reminders of that last part of my post so I keep hammering it into my head via researching.

I honestly want to break out of it, and bring as many with me that I can.. but I'm having trouble finding a place to start.

[ceetee9]

The fundamental problem with our economic systems, as I see it, is that they are all based on some form of control of both the resources needed to produce a product or service and the dissemination of those products and services. In reality, it matters little if the system of control is Capitalist-based or Socialist-based because both systems require a controlling group (be they privately or publicly owned) to function. In these systems it is always the controlling group that not only gets to decide who gets what, when, and how much, but they also live far better than the rest of society (i.e., they get to skim off the top whatever they want for themselves and dole out what’s left to the masses). This inevitably leads to a class hierarchy (e.g., if you’re a relative or friend of one of the controllers, or have something a controller wants or needs, you receive special considerations) which breeds even more contempt and distrust of the controllers/rulers.

As many economists have stated, and as many have said here, our current economic systems require ever expanding growth. As Ilie pointed out, that’s exactly how a Ponzi scheme works. When the growth stops, the scheme collapses. Sound familiar? Have any of you heard any of your “leaders” talk seriously about how to deal with dwindling planetary resources and/or the need for population reduction? I haven’t—not in any realistic way at least. It really doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that the Earth is a finite size with a finite amount of natural resources and, therefore, capable of supporting a finite number of people. While we can argue over what those finite numbers are and when or if we’ve reached them, there is no question that we are going to have to face that reality and we’re going to have to face it very much sooner than later, IMO. Therefore, by definition, any economic system that requires ever expanding growth (in resources and people to purchase those resources) to succeed, that system is doomed to fail when the growth is no longer sustainable. I believe we’ve reached that point and we’re all witnessing the collapse. (And none of that even takes into consideration the negative factors being applied by the greedy and corrupt corporate heads and powers-that-be—for who knows what ultimate agenda.)

I find it quite remarkable that we all seem to have bought into the idea that things that are necessary for basic human survival (e.g., food, water, energy, medical care, etc.) should be traded like any other commodity sold to the highest bidder. How programmed or asleep are we? Does it seem reasonable and fair to you that a person who works and saves all their life to provide for their family and to be able to take care of themselves in retirement and have something leftover to pass on to their children then, one day, through no fault of their own, contracts some major illness that lands them in a hospital for a week or two that then wipes out that lifetime of savings? They lose their home, their job, and/or their family all because they can’t pay their medical bills. Does it seem reasonable and fair to you that we honor and respect those who have “earned” their millions or billions and lived like kings while there are over one billion people on this planet who are virtually starving to death and over 43 million who live in absolute poverty in the U.S. alone? Does it seem reasonable and fair to you that hard working people in the middle to lower end of the “middle” class can barely put food on the table, a roof over their family’s head, or fuel in their vehicles to get to work while the energy industry continues to make record billion dollar profits year after year while, at the same time, destroying the environment?

So when one considers those few facts—and there are hundreds more examples of even more egregious atrocities—and then you hear the “experts” arguing over what “tweaks” are needed to “fix” the system and get the economy back on its feet, you have to wonder if there is any sanity in positions of authority anywhere. The system has reached its end of life cycle and I believe all but those in denial know it. Consequently, we need to start thinking outside the box if we are to survive in any fashion that most people would consider reasonable and worth surviving within.

As long as we continue the fantasy that we can tweak this growth-oriented system, or derive any system of exchange whereby one can hoard and/or control the resources to demand the highest price for goods and services—whether the exchange mechanism is fiat money, gold, silver, jewels, or something else “of value” LOL—it is destined to fail.

But before we can put forth, and realistically discuss, any potential solutions, there must be a consensus that the old systems are finished and a new system is required. And as I think is obvious by just the few comments on this thread, we are far from reaching any such consensus.

[Lord Sidious]

This is what I am getting at TargeT.
What is your interest in this?

My interest? curiosity I guess.. apparently I need more reminders of that last part of my post so I keep hammering it into my head via researching.

I honestly want to break out of it, and bring as many with me that I can.. but I'm having trouble finding a place to start.

Aha, ok.
I ask because you seem to know more than some and I was curious as to your motivations.

[bonnyhut]

My best mate Stuart who is an expert on the financial system says "WE ARE THE CURRENCY." This whole banking crisis is all an illusion and a joke. If I want to exchange my potatoes for a massage from you and neither of us have any money why can we still not make the exchange? Or find another way to make the exchange?? Money is a symbol for energy and we can use anything of value to represent that energy. We can go back to using silver and gold coins immediately for they have their own innate, intrinsic value. It all a joke.

WE ARE THE CURRENCY!!
WE ARE THE CURRENCY!!

So if I want to exchange my painting for your chicken bone stew I will find a way and the Illuminati can mind their own business without taking a cut from each and every transaction.
We are allowing them to steal from us. We are responsible for buying into the illusion of scarcity and limitation that does not exist at all.

Cut out the controlling middle man and back to immediate world wide abundance and prosperity!!

This is a very interesting statement.
Does he know about bonds and securities being traded off of our legal personas?
And that they also use us to back the currency?

Yes, he knows all about that and he explained it to me but I could not understand him 100% for I am no expert in the field. He is possibly also one of the few people who knows how we can access that money. I am trying to get him to join the forum so he can speak for himself.

[Lord Sidious]

My best mate Stuart who is an expert on the financial system says "WE ARE THE CURRENCY." This whole banking crisis is all an illusion and a joke. If I want to exchange my potatoes for a massage from you and neither of us have any money why can we still not make the exchange? Or find another way to make the exchange?? Money is a symbol for energy and we can use anything of value to represent that energy. We can go back to using silver and gold coins immediately for they have their own innate, intrinsic value. It all a joke.

WE ARE THE CURRENCY!!
WE ARE THE CURRENCY!!

So if I want to exchange my painting for your chicken bone stew I will find a way and the Illuminati can mind their own business without taking a cut from each and every transaction.
We are allowing them to steal from us. We are responsible for buying into the illusion of scarcity and limitation that does not exist at all.

Cut out the controlling middle man and back to immediate world wide abundance and prosperity!!

This is a very interesting statement.
Does he know about bonds and securities being traded off of our legal personas?
And that they also use us to back the currency?

Yes, he knows all about that and he explained it to me but I could not understand him 100% for I am no expert in the field. He is possibly also one of the few people who knows how we can access that money. I am trying to get him to join the forum so he can speak for himself.

If you need any help convincing him, let me know, I can use Sith mind tricks.
Seriously though, this is of extreme interest to me and those I care for.
If you can get him to join, I think we can make some progress on this topic.

[bonnyhut]

Yes he is a bit of a genius. I will also film him taking about this "decloration of independance" statement going arround the internet within the next few weeks. Apparently as far as legal language is concerned the word "decloration" actually keeps people in bondage.

[Lord Sidious]

So does ''constitution'' which is a surprise to quite a few people.

[TargeT]

This is what I am getting at TargeT.
What is your interest in this?

My interest? curiosity I guess.. apparently I need more reminders of that last part of my post so I keep hammering it into my head via researching.

I honestly want to break out of it, and bring as many with me that I can.. but I'm having trouble finding a place to start.


Aha, ok.
I ask because you seem to know more than some and I was curious as to your motivations.

I have the advantage of being able to research as much as I want all day (for the most part IT work ebbs and flows)... so I've dug deep into quite a few topics, and am always looking for more. (Plus I work for the military industrial complex, so I get to see the inside workings of "the beast", understand how our wacky budgeting proccess works when contrasted with keynsian economics, fiat currency, fractional reserve lending and all the other evil tools of modern finance) I used to be heavy into politics before I realised its a distraction and just ANOTHER game..

now.. now I feel I have the responsibility to share (in small chuncks, and randomly apparently?) what I've picked up and do my best to shift as many as I can for the better...



So does ''constitution'' which is a surprise to quite a few people.

Our "pledge of allegiance" in the US is basically the same thing,, you don't pledge allegiance to ANYTHING if your sovereign, but we have sadly forgotten that in the US...

did you know that the pledge of allegiance used to be saluted much like the 3rd Riech salute? it was quickly changed when the Nazi party went from idolized by the American progressive, to "bad guy" in the eyes of the world...
http://rationalrevolution.net/images/salute2.jpg
and it was written by a known communist... (anyone read the 10 Planks of The Communist Manifesto ? refresher: http://www.libertyzone.com/Communist-Manifesto-Planks.html )
Kinda freaky eh?

[Lord Sidious]

You are on the right path TargeT, keep going down that line you are on.
The things you speak of are correct, from what I have also found.
Google the word pledge and see what that means in law.
Not good at all.

[jackovesk]

I have the advantage of being able to research as much as I want all day (for the most part IT work ebbs and flows)... so I've dug deep into quite a few topics, and am always looking for more. (Plus I work for the military industrial complex, so I get to see the inside workings of "the beast", understand how our wacky budgeting proccess works when contrasted with keynsian economics, fiat currency, fractional reserve lending and all the other evil tools of modern finance) I used to be heavy into politics before I realised its a distraction and just ANOTHER game..



"Plus I work for the military industrial complex"

Pray tell TargetT, without breaking your cover..!

[Positive Vibe Merchant]

I would be also quite interested on some further info targeT.

PVM