The Root of ALL Human Suffering

[Kindred]

Last night, I was viewing a YouTube piece on how humankind came into its current financial crisis. I then went to bed to ponder these issues, but was unable to come to any substantial conclusions.

This morning, in thinking about how this situation can somehow be rectified, I stumbled upon the following realizations. I am looking to this community to further expand these concepts, and How we can take them to the next level…

It is an innate artifact of physical existence that we all learn to make Value Judgments of what is ‘important’ to our continued existence. These Values are then tied to All our interactions within this Physicality. I will note that lesser life-forms, plants, animals, etc., do Not apply these Value Judgments as we do, as it is beyond their Experience. Any ‘value judgment’ in these embodiments is strictly and simply an artifact of genetic programming for said continued physical existence.

However, upon attainment of sentience, we first develop, and then begin to use these Value Judgments to an increasing degree and complexity to make all sorts of Decisions relative to our physical existence, and further extend these Value Judgments to all our interactions, both within and between our individual societies.

Now, when understanding about how money came into being, most of us learn the concept of assigning “Value” that was developed as a medium of exchange for goods and services between individuals, and thus became the Modus Operandi of all commerce on our World. It should be readily apparent that this concept of Value of goods and services is merely an extension of the Value Judgments we develop in our course of lives.

However, it must be realized that it is Exactly this application of Value Judgment, in assigning “value” to objects or services, that is the single most destructive force of the Reptilian mind.

This Judgment, which is an application of Ego which goes Against Universal Law, is the single most causation of the Greatest Harm to any Collective Consciousness, which is comprised of all groupings of Sentient Individuals upon a planet.

Thus, it can be seen, for True Spiritual Evolution to occur, We, as a Collective Consciousness, MUST Eliminate said Value Judgments, and the concurrent assignment of Value, if we are to make the Transcendence to God/Universal Consciousness through Universal, Unconditional Love, and the understanding that ALL THINGS ARE OF EQUAL VALUE.

Or, perhaps, of No Value???

Any and All opinions of How to apply and implement this understanding is critical for Our Collective Ascension, IMHO.

In Unity and Peace

[Kindred]

Gee... I had hoped that there would have been some responses to this post by now, as I feel this issue of "perceived value" to be a particularly important aspect of physical reality. Am I wrong in this belief?

[Mark]

Well, my first thought was along the Buddhist line, the subject line of the thread automatically made me think of the 4 Noble Truths, and that Desire is the root of Suffering. But I can see how Desire can result in Value Judgments, since that which we desire we often are willing to go to any lengths in order to obtain, which necessitates the assignation of value to whatever that thing might be. For value to be assigned we must want that thing first. If we do not want it, desire it, then it doesn't matter what it costs, what value it might hold to another being. So value is to a large degree subjective, as different people hold different things at greater or lesser degrees of value.

Because of the mass consumerism that has been spread across the planet as a result of the colonization/imperialism/globalism centrix over the span of the last little while, value has taken on an illusory aspect that seems universal when, in fact, it is actually oppressive, since the value assigned to objects is more or less determined by outside forces for much of the world. For example, the Archonic imperative of creating an illusory reality is in full effect, as people desire things they have no need of, and chase after dreams that were never truly theirs, being lost in the glamor of perceived need. Therefore what people deem to be "valueable" is, in reality, "valueless" and a waste of precious time and energy.

[Lord Sidious]

The root of our suffering is our internal corruption, our lack of vision in not knowing this and the lack of a way to fix it.

[Kindred]

So value is to a large degree subjective, as different people hold different things at greater or lesser degrees of value. ...
Therefore what people deem to be "valuable" is, in reality, "valueless" and a waste of precious time and energy.

Yes Rahkyt... a great observation, and parallels exactly what I'm getting at. What is this 'value' that we seek? I feel This is the True Illusion of our physicality - that something, anything has value, when, Truthfully, it is the fullness of our Experience, and the sentient connections we attain with others that has Any Value. To recognize and embrace our separate individuality, yet, at the same time, realize and cherish the Oneness of all that exists.

Thank you for your gracious thoughts!

[Kindred]

The root of our suffering is our internal corruption, our lack of vision in not knowing this and the lack of a way to fix it.

LS... I agree whole-heartedly with this assessment. That being said, I'll propose that this internal corruption you speak of is, in truth, this very Reptilian mindset I outlined. This mindset is, and will continue to be, a significant blockage to moving our individual and collective consciousness to something beyond our current constraints of seeking and imposing the idea of 'value' upon our day-to-day needs for continued existence.

Only by applying equal value to all our, and Others needs, will we be able to move into
the 'Christ-Consciousness' necessary for our evolution.

Thank you for this understanding.

[Orph]

Gee... I had hoped that there would have been some responses to this post by now, as I feel this issue of "perceived value" to be a particularly important aspect of physical reality. Am I wrong in this belief?Pssssssssssssssssssst. Don't look now, but, ....... ahhhhhhhhh, ......... you just put a "value" on your own post. ;)

[noprophet]

I agree; though the question becomes. Where do you go with that?

SO no judgement; a judgment on judgement - only escape is silence. So now you have silence. Pure listening (Hear o'Israel).

Ok, now you're bored and want to create something and we're right back where we started.

All of this, at the core - the consciousness observing itself - is because we were bored as one - we wanted experience and now we're getting it. Maybe we should embrace it?

Most importantly however is that you can't judge the judgement as it's another judgement; get it?

Maybe the world's in a constant state of perfected balance correcting what we create out of boredom and our limited awareness argues and creates more?

[Kindred]

Pssssssssssssssssssst. Don't look now, but, ....... ahhhhhhhhh, ......... you just put a "value" on your own post. ;)

That is a great deduction. (another value!) Just the same, the observation I had made in regards to the 'economic video' I had viewed was relative to the values we have learned to ascribe to those things we need to survive, i.e.: food, shelter, etc. Certainly, to extend a value 'system' to other aspects of our existence (personal, relationships, assessments of others) was, at some point, possible, even inevitable.

But, it seems to me that we've carried these value systems far beyond their true usefulness, and they have imperiled humankind's very existence, and has, in the process, created great suffering.

I'll suggest that this was a result of deliberate actions of 'others' via our genetic manipulation, and we are now reaping the legacy of these actions. This is not to say that the majority of humankind isn't capable of moving beyond this paradigm, but it has become extremely difficult to alter this base programming due to the influences that we've been subjected to.

I did feel this subject needed to be broached and discussed further, particularly so in a larger context, and among many others so as to come to a consensus and a broader understanding of this phenomena.

Thank you for your quick wit!

[DeDukshyn]

Very well said. (of OP)

ridding ourselves fully of "attachments", "ownership", "judgments"(which defines a "value" to anything erroneously) induces enlightenment and a state of bliss.

This is hard for most because most either do not have correct definitions of these terms, or lie to themsleves about how to categorize their own thoughts / actions as a justification to continue that action.

Tools to help in this area are unconditional love and instant forgiveness. And by instant forgiveness I'll give this example: you see a man beating his kid - you feel outrage = because you judged. Forgive yourself for judging, then forgive the situation you are perceiving. You will be far more useful to the situation in this state if you choose to intervene. Acting on your outrage may net you some fines or jail (from a guy's POV), or target of revenge. Have unconditional love for the perpetrator - it is a lack of love that led him to his actions - will you add to this lack? Or seek to balance it? The choice is yours.

Rid yourselves of all judgements, unconditionally love everything you perceive and if you find yourself judging (it's easy to determine - are you feeling emotional pain? hate? anger? outrage? fear? if any is true your are judging -- as that is what is causing you those emotions), induce instant forgiveness and unconditional love. Do this with everything you see. If we all do this, the world will change. My 2 cents ;)

[Kindred]

Maybe the world's in a constant state of perfected balance correcting what we create out of boredom and our limited awareness argues and creates more?

Exactly! Just the same, what I had said in response to Orph regarding the needs for survival in the here-and-now is central to my concerns for our spiritual development; i.e., to attain a higher consciousness and greater understanding - exactly what you are making a point of.

In the economic video it was pointed out that, unless there was a consensus of the value of bartered or traded goods between individuals, commerce and trade became limited. It was through the introduction of 'money', (material of a common perceived value) that such a consensus was achieved. This began the decent into the economic manipulation and controls (debt slavery) we have today.

Also, this 'perceived value' now sets the stage for conflict over said value. I realized that these historical developments further eroded our collective cohesiveness and sense of community, and this has been exacerbated through the evolution of the 'nuclear family', with even greater disunity coming about due to our greater mobility resulting in extended families living further and further apart.

This is not to say the mobility, or even smaller families are 'bad', but, rather, this trend has permitted the influence of entities who do Not have the community's common interests in mind. And, it is these very entities that are proactively creating the further dissolution of Community through the imposition of the State Controls - particularly over the value system employed in our commerce. I'll state, for the record, Community is NOT the same as the State, as I'm certain most of us here realize.

And, here we have the crux of our problem: Community vs State.

IMO, Spiritually centered Beings create a Community, and thus foster a consensus of Value, that can ultimately result in recognizing the Greater Good that can come about when the day-to-day needs of the Community, and the individual of which it is comprised, is best served when these basic needs have no value, beyond the benefit to the community, as a whole. However, I do Not suggest this Community is in Any Way 'Collectivism', as described by G. Edward Griffin. It is far beyond this limited and tyrannical concept.

The State (Collectivism) is comprised of beings, Spiritual or otherwise, who use the Collective State to introduce artificial controls over the Values, and thus dominate and control the Community, even to the point of dissolution of said Community into powerless individuals, which results in Tyranny. This State has no 'spiritual' basis, and thus has no use for the Spiritually Based 'common good', aside from the individuals in control of the State. The State also permits, and even encourages, the excessive importance of certain Values, via the imposition of systems and controls of it's own making, further brainwashing individuals about 'who' is in control of the value system.

So, as may be seen, it is the Values we embrace, and Where we place them, that has the most influence on our Individual Beings, and by extension, the Community.

In Unity and Peace

[58andfixed]

I recall the vivid experience of relating to the reptilian brain from watching the BBC Nature series "Reptiles."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/life/Reptile

A reptile makes no judgment. When one wants to eat, it could be a dead road-kill cat two weeks old, it's young, alive & kicking, or not, just as long as it fits through the jaws.

Wonderful theory put forward here on the evolution of the brain on this planet, by Paul MacLean.

http://thebrain.mcgill.ca/flash/d/d_05/d_05_cr/d_05_cr_her/d_05_cr_her.html


"The reptilian brain, the oldest of the three, controls the body's vital functions such as heart rate, breathing, body temperature and balance."

"Our reptilian brain includes the main structures found in a reptile's brain: the brainstem and the cerebellum."

"The reptilian brain is reliable but tends to be somewhat rigid and compulsive."

So I believe as we move evolutionarily up through and including the mammalian brain, judgment becomes a necessary step of the evolution of the mind -- which makes up much more than just the brain.

The 'type' of judgment can be either 'functional' or 'dis-functional' based on whether it leads an individual to personal free will choice.

That is, if I don't like what you do and tell you to stop - that is a 'dis-functional' judgment, because a) I don't really have control over what you do, and b) it's not my place to coerce you.

If I don't like what you do, and have it reflect on what I chose to do, that I would deem to be a 'function' use of judgment.

I believe 'judgment' to be an essential part of the evolutionary process of this planet, and ourselves, in complete contradiction to what the "Course in Miracles" proposes - attempting to avoid any judgment at all.

I have never experienced the absence of judgement, even with effort. When I pay attention to those attempting to exhibit no judgment, I still recognize judgment taking place. I've never seen a demonstration of the absence of judgment in 'normal minded' mortals. [Yes, think of "The Silence of the Lambs".]

However, the TYPE of judgment can lead to a functional or dis-functional society, based on the above explanation.

Now, what say you about my judgment ?

- 58

[DeDukshyn]

labels schmabels.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

I suppose Judgement is the evolutionary process towards non- judgment. In that sense I could see it from your perspective, yes. But in the end it's all the same.

[58andfixed]

labels schmabels.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

I suppose Judgment is the evolutionary process towards non- judgment. In that sense I could see it from your perspective, yes. But in the end it's all the same.


If someone could attempt a reasonable effort of what 'non-judgment' would be like, I could at least read it. :)

I've examined 'non-judgment' quite thoroughly, and 'non-judgment' comes up lacking any reference to reality, and strong on fantasy.

Anybody willing to take a stab at an example of non-judgment without being rhetorical, or just an opinion ?

BTW ... "in the end its all the same." Same as what ? How far down the road do you mean by "end" ? End of mortal life ?

- 58

[DeDukshyn]

labels schmabels.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

I suppose Judgment is the evolutionary process towards non- judgment. In that sense I could see it from your perspective, yes. But in the end it's all the same.


If someone could attempt a reasonable effort of what 'non-judgment' would be like, I could at least read it. :)

I've examined 'non-judgment' quite thoroughly, and 'non-judgment' comes up lacking any reference to reality, and strong on fantasy.

Anybody willing to take a stab at an example of non-judgment without being rhetorical, or just an opinion ?

BTW ... "in the end its all the same." Same as what ? How far down the road do you mean by "end" ? End of mortal life ?

- 58

The judgment you speak of is a survival mechanism. When survival is not at stake it's use is not required.


I believe 'judgment' to be an essential part of the evolutionary process of this planet
--are we not evolving toward a state of non-judgment? if you think not, then what do think we require judgments for to aid in evolution?

[58andfixed]

Survival or not, judgment is still essential to choice & decision.

Here as a mortal, and eternally.

Many a short-cut has been implemented that had more to do with control or social engineering, and even creating a background of fear.

These mechanisms [Military; Politics; Financial System; Mainstream Media; Medical System; Social Welfare; Organized Religion] contrived by man has led to a cult of the fear of death, and death is only an illusion of 'survival.'

Death is only a transition.

We require judgment to evolve spiritually as an individual, and as a collective - humanity.

If we avoid making choices & decisions, no actions can be taken to rectify our situation.

Judgment is essential to making choices & decisions, which will lead to action & a life lived, a planet that evolves.

Avoiding judgment leads to denial & stagnation.

- 58



[QUOTE=DeDukshyn;310750]labels schmabels.[COLOR="red"]

The judgment you speak of is a survival mechanism. When survival is not at stake it's use is not required.
[QUOTE]I believe 'judgment' to be an essential part of the evolutionary process of this planet
--are we not evolving toward a state of non-judgment? if you think not, then what do think we require judgments for to aid in evolution?

[Ernie Nemeth]

First back to value: our values are extremely short-sighted. As an example, nuclear power is considered economically viable (more so than solar, wind, and the rest and perhaps arguably so) but that is only because we do not consider the cost of storing the spent fuel and its long-term risk to the population. Value is an illusion based on shallow considerations and vested interests, not over-all cost and risk.

Judgements: I can attest that it is very possible and even desirable to function in a state of non-judgement. Judgement is like a double-edged sword that first pierces the heart of the one that judged. This self-attack is then denied and externalized: that is judgement at its core - an attack on the self. Now, I'm very new to this mode of being so I falter still. But I can say with certainty that the state of non-judgement is possible and if attained, even for a very short span of time, miracles will replace the attack. But to the left-brain dominated, male mindset such a state seems to be an impossibility.

[DeDukshyn]

Survival or not, judgment is still essential to choice & decision.

Here as a mortal, and eternally.

Many a short-cut has been implemented that had more to do with control or social engineering, and even creating a background of fear.

These mechanisms [Military; Politics; Financial System; Mainstream Media; Medical System; Social Welfare; Organized Religion] contrived by man has led to a cult of the fear of death, and death is only an illusion of 'survival.'

Death is only a transition.

- 58



[QUOTE=DeDukshyn;310750]labels schmabels.[COLOR="red"]

The judgment you speak of is a survival mechanism. When survival is not at stake it's use is not required.
[QUOTE]I believe 'judgment' to be an essential part of the evolutionary process of this planet
--are we not evolving toward a state of non-judgment? if you think not, then what do think we require judgments for to aid in evolution?

It is surpass-able. That is part of the process of "evolution" as you call it. But I'm thinking now were more on the same wavelength - just different interpretations - correct me if I am wrong.

[58andfixed]

Re-Read Post #12.

Taking judgment is not an attack. It is a process of evaluation, that leads to choice, decision & action.

Certainty is not evidence, nor is it proof of anything. You are taking a judgment that 'non-judgment' has value, and offer no rational, only hold an opinion.

Values are a reflection of judgment, be it individual or a collection judgment.

- 58

First back to value: our values are extremely short-sighted. As an example, nuclear power is considered economically viable (more so than solar, wind, and the rest and perhaps arguably so) but that is only because we do not consider the cost of storing the spent fuel and its long-term risk to the population. Value is an illusion based on shallow considerations and vested interests, not over-all cost and risk.

Judgments: I can attest that it is very possible and even desirable to function in a state of non-judgment. Judgment is like a double-edged sword that first pierces the heart of the one that judged. This self-attack is then denied and externalized: that is judgment at its core - an attack on the self. Now, I'm very new to this mode of being so I falter still. But I can say with certainty that the state of non-judgment is possible and if attained, even for a very short span of time, miracles will replace the attack. But to the left-brain dominated, male mindset such a state seems to be an impossibility.

[58andfixed]

I take evolution to represent a slow & constant state of change.

Some would limit 'evolution' to be just the biological & genetic changes, however I would not be so constrained.

I would include how we think individually & collectively, which includes mind, so we may not recognize any physical changes, yet changes would still be occurring.

Symptoms that we could recognize as 'continuing evolution' would be the end to war & famine, and that would be an indication that our mind has evolved to think differently than we have in the past.

Understanding the correct representation of a word helps to clarify if we are simply representation two different perspectives of the same thing.

I cannot correct you because I'm not sure if we are, simply know that I'm taking exceptional efforts to be as precise & clear as possible.

- 58



It is surpass-able. That is part of the process of "evolution" as you call it. But I'm thinking now were more on the same wavelength - just different interpretations - correct me if I am wrong.

[DeDukshyn]

Re-Read Post #12.

Taking judgment is not an attack. It is a process of evaluation, that leads to choice, decision & action.

Certainty is not evidence, nor is it proof of anything. You are taking a judgment that 'non-judgment' has value, and offer no rational, only hold an opinion.

Values are a reflection of judgment, be it individual or a collection judgment.

- 58

First back to value: our values are extremely short-sighted. As an example, nuclear power is considered economically viable (more so than solar, wind, and the rest and perhaps arguably so) but that is only because we do not consider the cost of storing the spent fuel and its long-term risk to the population. Value is an illusion based on shallow considerations and vested interests, not over-all cost and risk.

Judgments: I can attest that it is very possible and even desirable to function in a state of non-judgment. Judgment is like a double-edged sword that first pierces the heart of the one that judged. This self-attack is then denied and externalized: that is judgment at its core - an attack on the self. Now, I'm very new to this mode of being so I falter still. But I can say with certainty that the state of non-judgment is possible and if attained, even for a very short span of time, miracles will replace the attack. But to the left-brain dominated, male mindset such a state seems to be an impossibility.

Some distinctions are needed. Obviously. "Red" as a judgment has value - a tool, you could say in differentiation. Let's get the context common before continuing, shall we? Otherwise this will go nowhere.

[161803398]

http://www.metahistory.org/GRAIL/GrailMagic.php

[DeDukshyn]

I take evolution to represent a slow & constant state of change.

Some would limit 'evolution' to be just the biological & genetic changes, however I would not be so constrained.

I would include how we think individually & collectively, which includes mind, so we may not recognize any physical changes, yet changes would still be occurring.

Symptoms that we could recognize as 'continuing evolution' would be the end to war & famine, and that would be an indication that our mind has evolved to think differently than we have in the past.

Understanding the correct representation of a word helps to clarify if we are simply representation two different perspectives of the same thing.

I cannot correct you because I'm not sure if we are, simply know that I'm taking exceptional efforts to be as precise & clear as possible.

- 58



It is surpass-able. That is part of the process of "evolution" as you call it. But I'm thinking now were more on the same wavelength - just different interpretations - correct me if I am wrong.


I take evolution to represent a slow & constant state of change.
-- while evolution is slow and constant, that is not one's description or definition by any stretch ones imagination, of this I am fairly sure -- it is much more in depth than that no doubt.

[58andfixed]

I don't understand what you are saying.

It doesn't even reflect any point of discussion above.

You are behaving like a 'bot.'

If this continues to digress in such a manner, I don't see the point in continuing to respond.

- 58

Some distinctions are needed. Obviously. "Red" as a judgment has value - a tool, you could say in differentiation. Let's get the context common before continuing, shall we? Otherwise this will go nowhere.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Is putting one foot before another a judgement? Do I judge which muscles to flex or which neurons to activate? Is breathing a judgement? How about my love for my child?

Some things just happen naturally.

[58andfixed]

Absolutely. Re-read post #12.

Breathing isn't a judgment, nor is the pumping of blood through your veins.

A redundant post that adds no value to this thread.

Are you going to watch TV later on? That is a judgment.

Will you buy a burger from MacDonalds, or Wendy's? That is a judgment.

Will you smile at the person next to you on the bus? That is a judgment.

Will you drink a glass of water or a coke? That is a judgment.

- 58

Is putting one foot before another a judgement? Do I judge which muscles to flex or which neurons to activate? Is breathing a judgement? How about my love for my child?

Some things just happen naturally.

[58andfixed]

Premature in your expectation to be sure.

A judgment no less.

- 58

Gee... I had hoped that there would have been some responses to this post by now, as I feel this issue of "perceived value" to be a particularly important aspect of physical reality. Am I wrong in this belief?

[58andfixed]

Please stretch my imagination.

What would be your definition of evolution ?

And what of your definition of evolution would be relevant to values & judgment -- or non-judgment, if you can support that?


- 58

I take evolution to represent a slow & constant state of change.
-- while evolution is slow and constant, that is not one's description or definition by any stretch ones imagination, of this I am fairly sure -- it is much more in depth than that no doubt.[/QUOTE]

[ThePythonicCow]

A couple of lines, quoted from the above:

If this continues to digress in such a manner, I don't see the point in continuing to respond.

Otherwise this will go nowhere.
I have some concerned reports about this thread ... but after reading it, I'm not of a mind to be too judgmental as to any particular participant.

Rather, it seems that it would be best if we wondered off and read some other thread. This thread could use a good night's rest. Perhaps it will feel better in the morning.

[Martin]

Well, In my opinion the main problem with our current financial system is that -indeed- our money has no value at all. Not that your thoughts would not carry any weight, but we simply need to recognize that the model of and the thoughts behind our current financial believe system can not sustain nor support a free society. Then we can change it and maybe someday we can overcome it, but at the moment we are lacking a whole lot of understanding to do just that.


Martin

[ktlight]

Are you going to watch TV later on? That is a judgment.

Will you buy a burger from MacDonalds, or Wendy's? That is a judgment.

Will you smile at the person next to you on the bus? That is a judgment.

Will you drink a glass of water or a coke? That is a judgment.

- 58


The above are surely decisions. What judgment is required to answer the questions?

[Tony]

Of course one needs judgement and discrimination, that is how we evolve!
However brows at your leisure at 'beyond consciousness', it is all about pure perception and judging from our mental storehouse.

ps. I'm a bit jet lagged, otherwise I'd say.....zzzzz.....zzzzz!

[Tony]

Ah! Just woken up.
The root of all human suffering is misunderstanding reality.
Therefore we believe in a solid "I" full of fixated concepts,
therefore we get all emotional and upset when others
fixated concepts do not agree with ours.
Then "oi" do we suffer!

Actually "oi" doesn't everyone suffer?

[Kindred]

So value is to a large degree subjective, as different people hold different things at greater or lesser degrees of value. ...
Therefore what people deem to be "valuable" is, in reality, "valueless" and a waste of precious time and energy.

Yes Rahkyt... a great observation, and parallels exactly what I'm getting at. What is this 'value' that we seek? I feel This is the True Illusion of our physicality - that something, anything has value, when, Truthfully, it is the fullness of our Experience, and the sentient connections we attain with others that has Any Value. To recognize and embrace our separate individuality, yet, at the same time, realize and cherish the Oneness of all that exists.

Thank you for your gracious thoughts!

I've quoted the above for a purpose - to get to the main point of this thread.

Our physicality/manifestation is a means of developing Experience for our Spirits to learn and grow into a fuller Realization. I do feel that part of this Experience is to develop the discernment necessary to recognize that some Values are critical for physical survival, and others are simply of a tempting nature, open to subjective judgment. How we develop and use our discernment is part of this Learning Experience.

Free Will is critical to this Experience, and each Spirit has an individual path in the attainment of this Experience. However, the interference of Others via manipulation of our physical and emotional experiences via a false value system, and thus interfering with Free Will, has colored and twisted many spiritual paths, although it may be suggested this is all part of the Grand Plan.

Getting back to the day-to-day needs for survival, I feel it is also critical, in this Physical Reality, for humankind as a whole to 'shake off' the false values of the imposed systems, and recognize that there are aspects of our physical existence in which we would all benefit from working together for the Common Good of our Community. My hope is that we will recognize that our Community encompasses the entirety of our World, and thus, we need to learn that many individual decisions can impact the Community as a whole.

To remain free of Judgment of others, yet realize that some Judgments, relative to priorities and determining what is best for our Community as a whole, is necessary for some aspects of our survival in this physical reality.

[Kindred]

[QUOTE=58andfixed;310806]
Premature in your expectation to be sure.

A judgment no less.

- 58
Oh Yes... I realized that back on page one!.. Sometimes it's good to just step back and bide my time. I know that I can get a bit impatient at times, and need better Discernment! ;)

Thanks for the 'heads up'!

[Ernie Nemeth]

The root of all human suffering is the belief in separation.

[Kindred]

Yes, we see 'Eye to Eye' in these matters, to be certain. (2 cents?... more like a dollar.. or more;))

Thank you for this affirmation.:o

WHOOPS!... This was meant in response to DeDukshyn's first post!!!... my bad:(

¤=[Post Update]=¤


The root of all human suffering is the belief in separation.

EXACTLY! :happy:

[DeDukshyn]

The root of all human suffering is the belief in separation.

Which is required for judgment. Well said Ernie.

Others: give this some thought ... there's more to this concept than just the words it represents.

[greybeard]

You could say the root of all suffering is "Ego"
The ego is a separation device.
I agree with Ernie. (The root of all human suffering is the belief in separation. )

No self, no problem--- no separation, no problem.

Chris

[<8>]

Hi Kindred..


Money have more or less been forced upon us, by those who wanted more than they really needed.
This have been a driving tool western used to control and to get people in to there system, throughout the occupation they did over this world.
This is no secret it's well documented in to our history, that's why they went to such lengths to cover the earth.

And of course the church was the governments of that time, so they converted as many they could into their beliefs.
There are not really anyone who question that if you got the money, you are free to do what ever you want more or less.

The elite of to day, are same kind of people who forced this on us back in the days.
They are psychopaths who lack the emotion and sympathy, but dont let this fool you they are masters of pretending and reading people and play with there feelings.
And pretend they feel the same, to make you vote for their confidence.

Let's say we did a new system, without money and all what comes with that.
Any psycopats will very quickly get exposed, because there sharade will only work for so long.

So would a society of the human race make a fresh start last more than 100 years, before picking up bad habits and start the down fall.
Surely the human race are not adult yet, but would we really start up the mass killings again without the conspired suggestions from mindless psychopaths ?
No i dont think so, not on that scale we se throughout history. But even though a few people would still do terrible wrongs,

you can never get human race where we are today without the leaders of to day. They are the root of evil, through their systems we live in today,
there are enormous pressure on the people of the world. And this makes people go down the wrong path and do all sorts of wrongs.
They wouldn't do if the system was based on love and give the freedom to grow with that, Of course this change will be a challenge i hope we can make,
there would be a bumpy ride and mistakes will be done.

But together i am sure we can make it..

[DeDukshyn]

I don't understand what you are saying.

It doesn't even reflect any point of discussion above.

You are behaving like a 'bot.'

If this continues to digress in such a manner, I don't see the point in continuing to respond.

- 58

Some distinctions are needed. Obviously. "Red" as a judgment has value - a tool, you could say in differentiation. Let's get the context common before continuing, shall we? Otherwise this will go nowhere.

Really? this is your response to me requesting a common context to avoid issues with semantics before continuing discussion? I find this very odd. What is your agenda? I am behaving like someone who is very versed in this topic. Because I am.

[Mod-edit: I fixed the quote, DeDukshyn :). -Paul.]

[58andfixed]

Clarity on judgment, where to apply it, discernment and resultant values is essential for a more accurately lived purposeful life.

I'm happy to see others can find different words to express similar thoughts essential for the sustainable survival of humanity. :)

- 58


I do feel that part of this Experience is to develop the discernment necessary to recognize that some Values are critical for physical survival, and others are simply of a tempting nature, open to subjective judgment. How we develop and use our discernment is part of this Learning Experience.

Free Will is critical to this Experience, and each Spirit has an individual path in the attainment of this Experience. However, the interference of Others via manipulation of our physical and emotional experiences via a false value system, and thus interfering with Free Will, has colored and twisted many spiritual paths, although it may be suggested this is all part of the Grand Plan.

Getting back to the day-to-day needs for survival, I feel it is also critical, in this Physical Reality, for humankind as a whole to 'shake off' the false values of the imposed systems, and recognize that there are aspects of our physical existence in which we would all benefit from working together for the Common Good of our Community. My hope is that we will recognize that our Community encompasses the entirety of our World, and thus, we need to learn that many individual decisions can impact the Community as a whole.

To remain free of Judgment of others, yet realize that some Judgments, relative to priorities and determining what is best for our Community as a whole, is necessary for some aspects of our survival in this physical reality.

[Agape]

There are external causes and internal causes,
repairable and irreparable causes of suffering .

According to Buddhas teaching
there are 3 types of suffering ..
suffering of change,
suffering of suffering
and all pervasive suffering ( see here (http://luminousemptiness.blogspot.com/2006/05/three-types-of-suffering.html))


From the external causes of ALL human suffering I'd name GRAVITY the most heavy and immediate factor to be blamed .

It's this planetary gravity making it all so grave .

Likewise I 'd blame local planetary spin /velocity for making the time run as fast as it does .


The minutest changes happening to our bodies every second ..called growth, aging and death, the recycling process of local nature are so fast that we can not see or feel them ..yet they are . The all perviding pain,
the pressure exerted on us and our biological effort of growing over and against the pressure .
Two contradictory forces of nature, non living nature against life. So life, essentially pains here all the way along . And for each moment of joy and bliss there's moment of pain to pay .

Yet we are growing over it and our Spirits soar high and remain unharmed ..


Anyway, these days when anti-gravity technologies became the latest question of interest ....

how long it may take than they'll be able to think yet more forwards .


It needs to remain in our memory and conscience that suffering is real enough without us directly causing it .

The ever present pain constricts not only veins, stomachs, hearts and brains ...but together with them , the sense of 'ego' , the sense of compassion , countless abilities and living powers of ours,
our physical and mental senses . It fogs our hearts and minds as it does to everyone else on this planet.

We should not forget that it's for real and should not forget compassion . Not sink to dellusions about reality being sorted 'somehow' .

It may but it may not be .


Don't be hard ..and don't be too soft either . Get real and remain the Light for those in agony , no matter what they say ..



:clock:

[K626]

Is us.

Peace

K

[58andfixed]

Fortunately the way profiles are set up here on PA, an account can reveal their agenda, and other account holders can verify the harmony between stated biases and match that up against the posts each account generates.

Nothing of significance hidden here, and lots of dots are left to be examined, compared, contested and challenged.

I am not perfect, nor am I special.

I offer nothing to sell, and web-sites I use are not under my control.

My track-able history goes back years & is consistent, coherent and specific.

I make effort to an exceptional degree to be transparent, given the privilege to the degree that anonymity is permitted & personally chosen.

- 58


What is your agenda?

I am behaving like someone who is very versed in this topic. Because I am.

[58andfixed]

Yes. We are the problem, and most do not suspect it.

So easily self-divisible without any intervention.

So easily provoked to anger, hatred & even rage.

- 58

Is us.

Peace

K

[The Mad spirtualist]

The root is disconnection from Source/Creation/God. Everyone that has come to this reality has come to experience what it is like to feel disconnection and rediscover connection again. It is a act in creation itself. We are in the very act of creating a experience like no other, collectively and individually. This planet is where all the cool **** is happening! Enjoy the process and don't worry! You will always exist! There is no room for existence in non-existence, it be all filled up with non existence. You are eternal! One day you will discover this another you will KNOW.

[DeDukshyn]

Yes. We are the problem, and most do not suspect it.

So easily self-divisible without any intervention.

So easily provoked to anger, hatred & even rage.

- 58

Is us.

Peace

K

Yet if we all discussed things within common well defined context and definition of terms to alleviate as many problems in communications and understanding due to things such as semantics most of these issues will be greatly alleviated. no? It is part of the equation that this thread is based around. I think this thread itself is a bit of a testament to that. Just my opinion.

[Kindred]

I've been busy these last few days, and haven't found the time to properly respond to all the great posts. However, I came upon this item of pertinence, relative to this thread. I'll simply post the text, as it appears to be a continuously updated blog.

http://mikephilbin.blogspot.com/

Your planet is BROKEN.
I don't know whether you realise this or not (maybe you're too busy to think) but your planet is completely BROKEN, and it's been broken for centuries.

In fact, the term YOUR PLANET is a glaring anathema.

If this was your planet, you'd care a lot more about what **** goes where, you'd try to stop illegal raping and pillaging of one 'country's resources to the benefit of a few business-game players.

It's the whole GAME you're playing.

THE WIN AT ALL COSTS GAME.
THE DEFEATED MUST FALL GAME.
THE GOOKISATION OF YOUR ENEMY GAME.

You're being led by the nosering, by professors of Learning and captains of Industry and general of Corporate War, to believe that YOU ARE THE BEST.

But this is not reality, this is a crass invention.

You are the worst of all possible solutions, You The People are (seriously) the inertia-crippled stain on what should be 'democracy' but which is (in fact) Corporate Despotism or the Shogunate/Clan system of ancient Japanese rule.

Several elite GAME PLAYING families who hold all the land, all the stock, all the resources, all the gumption (it seems) making all the rest of You The People do the grunt work, take all the risk, do what they say. Not because they're cleverer than you and they've put a lot of effort into HOW TO MAKE THIS WORLD A BETTER PLACE FOR ALL, but just to help them play their game. They are (technically) psychopaths, and by this I mean they have lost (or had eradicated) all their empathy for you, the common man, the everybody.

Every now and then, usually when living conditions are too desperate to do anything else, You The People rise up against this HIDDEN-IN-PLAIN-SIGHT TYRANNY and topple the Emperors and the the Kings.

If you do that again, and if you do it soon, please remember that PROFIT and OWNERSHIP and ENEMY have nothing to do with a Free'd Planet.
If you do come to your senses, and you see this whole planetary GROWTH MODEL lie for what it is, please try to use Creativity, Passion and Kinship in your vision of a reshaped future.
If you are able to understand what I'm saying, around the utterly cynical depth of your corporate programming, please educate your fellow man, your family, your children, all around the world. Tell him/her/group/Diversity that, though a storm is coming, there is shelter in the global wreckage that mankind has wrought upon itself in the name of PROFIT.

We should never again consider ourselves idiot GAME PLAYERS - we are only Custodians of this delicate natural balance organism hurtling through space, our replenished and re-wilded Free Planet.
Posted by Mike Philbin at

In Unity and Peace

[toothpick]

Not sure yet.
It is either organized religion, ( that is run by man of course) because of all the misery and pain it has caused, and because of all the untruths it has allowed to simmer over the centuries to a broth that still covers the masses eyes to the real truth of our history to this very day.
Then again just maybe it is man himself who is the root of all human suffering.
WE all know that man can be very greedy vicious, bullying, egomaniacal, psychotic, etc, etc, we can litterally be a curse on humanity itself if we put our mind to it.
And i,m sure if we collectifly look at what we the human race have maliciously and with with great haste and glee done to our, Gaia, we, man, without remorse raped her agan and again.
I suppose that since the above two scenairos are both caused by man, the answer is self evident.

toothpick

[Bo Atkinson]

Kindred, Your thread title really evoked a complex feeling here. First allow me to suggest that "value judgments, ego and money" may have been extraordinarily foisted on humans. We hear many scenarios. Just how humans came into historical conditions and up to this day. I was pondering some of the variations. When suddenly this new Kavassilas book was announced and Kimberley's generous interview was posted here. I had heard an interview or two before, with Kavassilas. Yet never had noticed so many elements all drawn together, (as in his new book). Earlier learning experiences and studies might be critical, to grasp the many contexts. The main features of which indeed addresses: "The Root of ALL Human Suffering".

Do people really want to confront and discuss the hardened sufferable roots? Perhaps my post here will over do it, but only because the root of suffering seems so insidiously intense. So please feel free to ask me to move this post to another thread, it if it seems out of place here. (I want to comply with OPs, guidelines and do welcome guidance).

George's reputation should lend more encouragement to bear with long winded ideas. Ideas which blow lids off of so many conventions and so many tacitly accepted 'facts'. Blowing the chaff off the wheat without losses, takes care. I hope readers will bear through to complete the full sets of contexts. Here is is just one excerpt which i think addresses the root at the tip.


Kavassilas: OurUniversalJourney
The plan the wayward faction of the gods now commonly use throughout the cosmos is to systematically plunge a reality down in vibration forcing people into a dark negative charge for a long period of time, meaning many generations, and then present a more desirable positive white love and light solution to the problems they created to begin with.

This is an ancient strategy and program known as; ‘Problem - Reaction – Solution’

Most people think that this program is being implemented on a planetary level, and some can even see it on a galactic level, but what the overwhelming majority of people don’t realise is that this program is being implemented on a grand cosmic scale within the Great Arena.

Over the past 6,000 years they have systematically gone about creating such an undesirable environment here, plunging us into the dark ages, (creating the problem); depriving humanity of as much true Love and Light as possible, resulting in people yearning and aching for love and light, peace and harmony, (getting the reaction); so at the end of the process they can then present their version of love and light, (presenting the solution). Now, because we have been deprived of love for such a long period of time and have been experiencing the illusion of being cut off from our Soul Essence, we have forgotten what true Love and Light feels like. We have lost that point of reference and so people are flocking towards the gods and their archon’s version of love and light like a child takes to candy.

With this devastating suppression, what chances have humans? Waking up and facing it. Staying focussed and balanced in every day life. Regardless of how long "every day" remains. Regardless of how much influences readjust. Just keep a steady hand, without functional flares. Picking up and piecing bits of the lore, as resources to rationalize with. Like the archons, now presented by notable commentators. Use all sorts of data and wisdom to plot the next course of action.

I think part of the point is we chose to come into this experience. To gather up life experiences and somehow come out of it all with balanced sets, even with opposite experience types. Not so much as a consolation, but rather that opposites kinds of experiences provide more impetus to sort out planetary livings at all. This keeps lives interesting if not occasionally stimulative. For breaking through experiential blocks or stuck considerations or stuck judgements. To produce new balances to come away clearly with.
~wav