Unafraid to speak the truth

[loveandgratitude]

WHAT DOES TRUTH MEAN TO YOU

So what is the TRUTH?

What does it mean to speak truth when we live in a world of deception and lies? To me, the truth is anything that shines a light upon the corrupt face of the establishment. I’m talking Government, Organized Religion, Mainstream Media… any entity that has a vested interest in the oppression of a human being’s right to be a free and autonomous individual. Our sovereign and inalienable rights must be protected. Hence, we MUST speak the truth wherever we find it.

Those unafraid to speak TRUTH to power are responsible for many of the great advancements of humanity.

Galileo Galilei said of his detractors, “Showing a greater fondness for their own opinions than for truth they sought to deny and disprove the new things which, if they had cared to look for themselves, their own senses would have demonstrated to them.” His brave and unyielding insistence upon what he KNEW to be true is what began to pull humanity out of the dark ages.

“In a world of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” - George Orwell

The above quote should be the mission statement of all those who desire freedom from oppression. Telling the truth is revolutionary not only in its ability to transform, but also in its inherent danger.

Robert Kennedy said, “Fear not the path of truth, for the lack of people walking on it.” It is my firm belief that both of these men met their demise because of their desire to share truth with the masses.

The path of truth is dangerous. It is full of vipers nipping at our ankles, and traps ready to be sprung as we tread forward. The deceivers trying to censor us, to keep us quite. But we cannot be afraid.

To the oppressors of mankind: WE THE PEOPLE OF THE WORLD will not cower in shame as you strip us naked and ridicule our natural states. We will stand proudly before you in our exposed flesh… because we came into this world clothed in two things… our skin and our birthright… which is LIFE, LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS.

We rise not only in solidarity… but also in anger. We are ANGRY as we watch all our liberties stripped away. And we will not take it! Get mad! Speak the Truth! Scream it from your doorstep and your window and to your family and friends. Truth will truly set us free. Start now!

So people of AVALON, please do not be afraid of speaking the TRUTH. THIS IS YOUR CHANCE TO MAKE IT RIGHT.

The easiest path to follow is always the one previously chosen by the herd. We can huddle up, and hide in someone else’s shadow. We can be meek and mild and try our damndest not to rock the proverbial boat.

But as the old axiom says, sometimes to do what’s “right” we must choose a path and walk it alone. My heart soars when I speak the truth. I am transformed by the truth. I am liberated by TRUTH. And I would gladly walk the path of Truth alone.

WHAT DOES TRUTH MEAN TO YOU.

[Marsila]

you made good points about most truth tellers being ridiculed in their time.

Their is a lot of free energy subjects on PA of late, and it reminded me that even Tesla, and i quote wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla

Because of his eccentric personality and his seemingly unbelievable and sometimes bizarre claims about possible scientific and technological developments, Tesla was ultimately ostracized and regarded as a mad scientist by many late in his life.[5] Tesla died with little money at the age of 86 in a hotel suite in New York City

Now look at how very few disagree that we owe the man a lot for the comfort of todays lives, and how if helped we could have had even better tools to aid us in life now.

Truth is subjective though, and many mis-informers do use that to confuse people from whether they are sure or not of that what they believe is the truth. Religion the ultimate mind control tool of course made it easy with "oh you dont' believe us, you go to hell that is the truth" ....but i wouldn't show someone i'm angry, only because it gives them an edge, usually those controllers know more on how to deal with angry people, than with people who are calm as they can't really read their emotions, and so thoughts that way.

just my 2 cents about what the truth means.

[Star1111]

Being authentic in everything you feel, say and do.
Being true to yourself and others .

[firstlook]

Understanding that Effectiveness is the measure of truth. If you cannot peacefully share your truth with another and vice versa, they are in no way beneath you or worth anything less and neither are you.

Understanding and Peace come from patience and humility.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Oh and People do bad things for Good reasons. Knowing that allows the truth to be spoken in more pure terms.

[Carmen]

Being my True Self and telling the truth always. Being authentic, no gossip, no hearsay.

[PHARAOH]

Truth hurts and causes great pain and suffering for those who don't like it, or want to accept it.

[toothpick]

The first lesson i learned from my dear grandmother was, that, the truth will set you free.
Those were sage words that have kept me in good sted my whole life.
I read it like this, the truth will set you free of a lot of things, the main one being the killer, stress.
Fabulous idea for a thread, loveandgratitude.

toothpick

[Vitalux]

WHAT DOES TRUTH MEAN TO YOU

So what is the TRUTH?


“In a world of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” - George Orwell

The above quote should be the mission statement of all those who desire freedom from oppression. Telling the truth is revolutionary not only in its ability to transform, but also in its inherent danger.

Robert Kennedy said, “Fear not the path of truth, for the lack of people walking on it.” It is my firm belief that both of these men met their demise because of their desire to share truth with the masses.

The path of truth is dangerous. It is full of vipers nipping at our ankles, and traps ready to be sprung as we tread forward. The deceivers trying to censor us, to keep us quite. But we cannot be afraid.

I totally understand....echo....and appreciate your awareness. If only others could tune into your insight.

thank you

[ThePythonicCow]

Of course I am for motherhood and apple pie, and of course I oppose man eating sharks.

Moreover, and needless to say, I favor fire breathing dragons only when they fight for "my side" ;).

Just because a member labels something "their truth" does not necessarily make it proper material to post here.

Consider, if you will, the controversial comment made by a rather prominent member of this forum a while back (here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?20169-The-sensitivity-of-language-and-people-when-describing-race-related-issues&p=214766&viewfull=1#post214766)):
For those of you in Australia, ask the Aboriginal Elders what damage the white men create when they permit themselves to do whatever they wish.
If read as a general condemnation of "white men" or "Australian white men", then some (at least one member, anyway) found this comment quite objectionable.

If read as a statement that some individuals, who were mostly Australian white men, permitted themselves to do much damage to Australia, then it is (so far as I know) a fact, even as it also quite certain (though I don't know the details) that other Australian white men opposed and continue to oppose such damage to nature and to native inhabitants.

This forum is a moderated forum. Posts which overly generalize towards any particular race, gender, creed, ethnicity, or other broad category of humans (as the above quoted comment was -read- by some, though not as it was -written-, with it's clear qualifier "when they permit ...") may be deleted, and their authors, if they persist, have their accounts temporarily or permanently suspended (though in the case of the author of the above quoted comment, I will have to admit that membership suspension is highly unlikely ;).)

Such an overly generalizing attitude is not encouraged here, and members who continue with such an approach might not be fitting to the overall spirit of change that we want to see while striving to find the truth.

The moderation team makes these decisions, and while inviting input from members, the decisions of the moderation team are not "up for vote" by the general membership. In some cases, the decisions are not easily made and require hours or days of effort, sometimes over months of elapsed time. We do the best we can to nurture the spirit of Avalon and to keep this a forum that supports a vibrant community of truth seekers.

So called "truths" that would divide humans against each other in warring factions can be, and have been, and continue to be, a favorite tool of The Bastards in Power (TBiP), in their ongoing war against truth, humanity, nature and awareness.

[Sierra]

Some truths are very small truths, used to divide and separate and cause hate.

Some truths are very large truths, that can create unity and love.

It is the effect or consequence of a "truth" that tells you which kind of truth it is or what it is being used for.

Sierra

[Lord Sidious]

I am all for truth, but not when it causes more problems.
I would have used the truth to verbally bludgeon jewish people on the net before.
I don't now.
I never lied, but I misused the truth to become a sword, rather than a shield.
Once we can let go of the hate, we see the world differently.
And it is a much nicer world, even as messed up as it is.

[Beren]

I am all for truth, but not when it causes more problems.
I would have used the truth to verbally bludgeon jewish people on the net before.
I don't now.
I never lied, but I misused the truth to become a sword, rather than a shield.
Once we can let go of the hate, we see the world differently.
And it is a much nicer world, even as messed up as it is.

Truly galaxy is in state of perpetual change when one Sith states above.
:thumb:

If you`re true to your words then force is strong with you. ;)



"your words are truth"

That was Jesus being quoted when speaking about Creator. Meaning since Creator is Creator and all powerful and omnipresent and omniscient and all add ons here his word is truth because he can support it with unlimited power. Whenever Creator utters a word it is truth.

Being its children we are in the same position.

But there is a catch we are in truth or we are truth or our every word is truth only when we can back it up with power ,when we are what we speak of.

[Ineffable Hitchhiker]

An analogy of what I think truth is.
I read this once, somewhere, and had an AHA moment. :)



A devoted meditator, after years concentrating on a particular mantra, had attained enough insight to begin teaching. The student's humility was far from perfect, but the teachers at the monastery were not worried.

A few years of successful teaching left the meditator with no thoughts about learning from anyone; but upon hearing about a famous hermit living nearby, the opportunity was too exciting to be passed up.

The hermit lived alone on an island at the middle of a lake, so the meditator hired a man with a boat to row across to the island. The meditator was very respectful of the old hermit. As they shared some tea made with herbs the meditator asked him about his spiritual practice. The old man said he had no spiritual practice, except for a mantra which he repeated all the time to himself. The meditator was pleased: the hermit was using the same mantra he used himself -- but when the hermit spoke the mantra aloud, the meditator was horrified!

"What's wrong?" asked the hermit.

"I don't know what to say. I'm afraid you've wasted your whole life! You are pronouncing the mantra incorrectly!"

"Oh, Dear! That is terrible. How should I say it?"

The meditator gave the correct pronunciation, and the old hermit was very grateful, asking to be left alone so he could get started right away. On the way back across the lake the meditator, now confirmed as an accomplished teacher, was pondering the sad fate of the hermit.

"It's so fortunate that I came along. At least he will have a little time to practice correctly before he dies." Just then, the meditator noticed that the boatman was looking quite shocked, and turned to see the hermit standing respectfully on the water, next to the boat.

"Excuse me, please. I hate to bother you, but I've forgotten the correct pronunciation again. Would you please repeat it for me?"

"You obviously don't need it," stammered the meditator; but the old man persisted in his polite request until the meditator relented and told him again the way he thought the mantra should be pronounced.

The old hermit was saying the mantra very carefully, slowly, over and over, as he walked across the surface of the water back to the island.



As Marsila said. - truth is subjective.
Would a nomad in Mongolia speak the same truth as a housewife in Manhatten?
I think individual truth is based on culture, beliefs, thoughts and concepts.

[Nairnia]

Look, if anyone here does actually know the truth, can you please tell me because Im buggered if I know! ;)

Truth is subjective. Facts are not.

[DeDukshyn]

My 2 cents on "Truth"

I'll need to make a distinction here so that the context is common and transparent ... if this style offends some of you as it appears it has a few very recently, tough meat - go to the next post then.

"Truths (capitalized)" to me are any statement that can never be logically contradicted in any form shape or way regardless of perspective, perceptions or definitions. There are almost none of these. "I am aware" is one, but even that indicates no particular level of awareness, but each sentient being is aware - that much is not disputable.

"truths" (small letter) to me are any statement that can be validated from the perspective and perception that makes that statement true. There are many of these and almost everything that can be called truth, is actually in this category -- but they are not pure truths, but merely relative truths from within the context that it is borne from. These truths are the ones that can be true from some or most people's perspectives, but for others viewing things from other perspectives, it may be invalidated. For example - one could say that my shirt is red. That is a "truth" and not a "Truth" -- One who is colour blind might say "To me it looks green" and they would also be telling the "truth" and it would be true from their perspective. At that point an "agreement" replaces "truth" - we could both agree that my shirt is red, but from his point of view, it just plain may not be. Colours are all just agreements anyways - not truths. How do you know what both you and I call red are not perceived completely differently? Agreements are the distinction here then - a "truth" is not really even valid in this context and in fact "agreements" are constantly being mislabeled or misinterpreted as "truths".

A lack of this distinction has caused so many quarrels and disagreements in the world and here on Avalon. If everyone would just try a little harder to recognize these two distinctions of "truths" and keep them in their useful places, everyone would get a long so much better and be able to understand one another so much more easily. That said, I understand how sometimes people require to be "right" for whatever reason their ego has deemed necessary, and will pretend that a "truth" is a "Truth" to make themselves appear more "right" than others - watch for this as well, and when it occurs request clarification of perspective, to put it back into the small "truths" category where it belongs. Some people hate when I do this ... lol.

Just my 2 cents ;)

[DeDukshyn]

Look, if anyone here does actually know the truth, can you please tell me because Im buggered if I know! ;)

Truth is subjective. Facts are not.

It was once a fact that the universe revolved around the earth ... just saying, facts are subject to perception and perspective, therefore also somewhat subjective. Tell me "factually" the shoreline measurement of any body of water you so desire to give me, and I will show how wrong "facts" can be, and how subjective they can also be ... clue .. "resolution" or "roughness" (as Mandelbrot calls it), is one of the measurements of "confidence" of "facts"

Just my opinion ;)

[Carmen]

To expand a bit on Truth. I am, for the most part, absolutely truthful, but I endeavour always to honour other people's truths. I do not point out truth for the people around me unless they invite me to. Well, anyway that is the intent. Sometimes I cannot help myself blurting out something. But to me everyone is doing the best they know how with what they have learned, what they have been taught and what they have accepted as True. Life is an individual journey and everyones journey is honoured through freewill by the GodSelf. Unless we reach out willingly to a greater knowledge, a greater authority, there is no contact with that great Self. It remains mute and unrealized.

One of the side affects of spiritual/consciousness expansion is to be able to discern more and more clearly the stage of life someone is at. This enables us to know when to speak and when not to and to know the right words to encourage and uplift people.

[TraineeHuman]

The more honest a person is with themselves, the more they come across to others as sincere. The more sincere a person is, the more others will trust that person.

It doesn't matter how much accurate or useful info a person may have. If that person doesn't create trust first, no-one will listen.

[Gaia]

Truth, much like reality, is relative to the person experiencing it, I believe ! My spiritual truth is not yours or vice versa...

The one truth I have found to be immutable is sacred geometry. It links together shape and form, vibration/frequencies, music and sound... Everything... It is the one universal language for all species.


Gaia

[Gaia]

Some truths are very small truths, used to divide and separate and cause hate.

Some truths are very large truths, that can create unity and love.

It is the effect or consequence of a "truth" that tells you which kind of truth it is or what it is being used for.

Sierra

However, truth also face some unique challenges that can lead to painful mistakes...


Gaia

[58andfixed]

There is truth, there is honesty and there is reality.

Honesty is when we witness to our personal experience.

Personal witness experience is valid in the court of law.

When a jury of our peers, examine a number of our individual witness testimonies for points of commonality & coherency in contradistinction to points where individuals differ, that is where accuracy in reality can be discerned.

Sometimes people call peer reviewed or jury reviewed testimony both evidence or truth.

Reality and evidence can both point us in the direction of path towards a truth.

Honesty, reality & truth are often confused & commingled.

And then there are mere belief and mere opinion, which are often neither reality nor truth, no matter the degree of conviction one holds onto them.

- 58

[Davidallany]

Some truths are very small truths, used to divide and separate and cause hate.
Hi Sierra,
I would like to know, if I may, about these small truths that are used to divide and cause hate.

[Anchor]

I am all for truth, but not when it causes more problems.

Mostly a workable strategy - however, there is a time and a place for unrestricted truth.

"I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword" Matt 10:34

From a man who was not afraid to deploy the (words) sword of truth, and cause the lack of peace resulting from the divisions created.

[Asyloth]

My opinion is that you're telling the truth as long as you honestly believe what you're saying, even if it isn't right.
You're not when you're saying something you know to be wrong.

[Lord Sidious]

My opinion is that you're telling the truth as long as you honestly believe what you're saying, even if it isn't right.
You're not when you're saying something you know to be wrong.

That is telling YOUR truth, not THE truth.
But I get your point.

[Seikou-Kishi]

I am all for truth, but not when it causes more problems.
I would have used the truth to verbally bludgeon jewish people on the net before.
I don't now.
I never lied, but I misused the truth to become a sword, rather than a shield.
Once we can let go of the hate, we see the world differently.
And it is a much nicer world, even as messed up as it is.

You're a good man, Sid, and fair. Prone as we all are to our own unique brand of nuggetry, but good and fair.

[Lord Sidious]

I am all for truth, but not when it causes more problems.
I would have used the truth to verbally bludgeon jewish people on the net before.
I don't now.
I never lied, but I misused the truth to become a sword, rather than a shield.
Once we can let go of the hate, we see the world differently.
And it is a much nicer world, even as messed up as it is.

You're a good man, Sid, and fair. Prone as we all are to our own unique brand of nuggetry, but good and fair.

Thanks for the vote of confidence there nugget.
I try, some people might tell you I am very trying, but I am on my journey and still learning.
I will be talking about this at the workshop too.
For one thing, it is much easier to speak it than type it.

[GCS1103]

Lord Sid-

I am very happy I got to know you now, rather than years ago. You ARE a good guy and a fair one and I believe your purpose in life will be bringing people together, rather than dividing them. That is the highest calling of all.

[Lord Sidious]

Lord Sid-

I am very happy I got to know you now, rather than years ago. You ARE a good guy and a fair one and I believe your purpose in life will be bringing people together, rather than dividing them. That is the highest calling of all.

Me too Goldie, me too.

[Star1111]

I am all for truth, but not when it causes more problems.
I would have used the truth to verbally bludgeon jewish people on the net before.
I don't now.
I never lied, but I misused the truth to become a sword, rather than a shield.
Once we can let go of the hate, we see the world differently.
And it is a much nicer world, even as messed up as it is.

You're a good man, Sid, and fair. Prone as we all are to our own unique brand of nuggetry, but good and fair.


Thanks for the vote of confidence there nugget.
I try, some people might tell you I am very trying, but I am on my journey and still learning.
I will be talking about this at the workshop too.
For one thing, it is much easier to speak it than type it.


Well I think you're wonderful and deep down a Golden Nugget !

YOU must soooooooooo be feeling the LOVE.

[Lord Sidious]

I am all for truth, but not when it causes more problems.
I would have used the truth to verbally bludgeon jewish people on the net before.
I don't now.
I never lied, but I misused the truth to become a sword, rather than a shield.
Once we can let go of the hate, we see the world differently.
And it is a much nicer world, even as messed up as it is.

You're a good man, Sid, and fair. Prone as we all are to our own unique brand of nuggetry, but good and fair.


Thanks for the vote of confidence there nugget.
I try, some people might tell you I am very trying, but I am on my journey and still learning.
I will be talking about this at the workshop too.
For one thing, it is much easier to speak it than type it.


Well I think you're wonderful and deep down a Golden Nugget !

YOU must soooooooooo be feeling the LOVE.

Thanks for that and yes, I am.:o

[ghostrider]

the only truth is, we live in a world of illusion and mis-direction, and the quest for control and money overides the good of humanity. everything else is subject to change but the greed of the ptb will remain a bottomless pit. enough is never enough for they search to fill a void with trinkets that can only be filled with spirit and oneness.

[DeDukshyn]

...
Honesty, reality & truth are often confused & commingled.
...
- 58
While I thoroughly agree with the above line,
What is a good way to define "reality"? in this context ... I'm not being sarcastic - this is a bit of a tricky one, and am wondering your definition in this context.

[Sierra]

Some truths are very small truths, used to divide and separate and cause hate.
Hi Sierra,
I would like to know, if I may, about these small truths that are used to divide and cause hate.

Hi David,

By their fruits, ye shall know them. If a truth results in hatred and dissension and hurts others, it is not big enough.

My tribe, love it or leave it. Includes only his own tribe and only those members who continue to love the tribe unconditionally and without discrimination, despite any behavior or consequences to others. Small truth.

I pray for the ascension of all beings. Larger truth. Includes all beings.

I will stay here to help, until all beings have ascended. Includes all current beings and future beings as well. Biggest truth I know of (so far).

I know it sounds as if I'm talking about love, rather than truth, but ... look at how love can enlarge truth. Sometimes I think love *is* the truth ...

Sierra

[58andfixed]

A thoroughly good & valid question.

It's not like I'm writing 'The' Rules of 'Reality,' however I believe reality to be closer to experiential achievement than "truth" or "Truth."

A reality can be easier to discover through the curious efforts of reading history and attempting to make sense of events transpiring now, for example.

Reality would be the event as close as possible as could be discerned by more than one person's experience of an event.

The one thing about reality, is that no one, outside of a person's mind, is capable of how to assess intention.

For in a material world, two people doing exactly the same thing, the consequences are identical. [ie: Dropping a few coins in a busker's hat.]

In a spiritual world however, the identical event with different intent results in different consequences. [Was the intent of an act benevolent, or malevolent?]

The point why I add this extra little bit, is that *reality* is thus changed or modified by the intent held by the individual, even though someone looking from the outside would not notice the different realities.

- 58




...
Honesty, reality & truth are often confused & commingled.
...
- 58

What is a good way to define "reality"?

[58andfixed]

Then it may be helpful to be as precise as possible about what love is then, would it not ?

What would you define as love ?

- 58



Sometimes I think love *is* the truth ...
Sierra

[Sierra]

Then it may be helpful to be as precise as possible about what love is then, would it not ?

What would you define as love ?

- 58



Sometimes I think love *is* the truth ...
Sierra

Going by what you said in the post above about reality, intention.

[58andfixed]

I like that.

Do you think it possible to be even more specific about constructing an act of love ?

- 58





Then it may be helpful to be as precise as possible about what love is then, would it not ?

What would you define as love ?

- 58



Sometimes I think love *is* the truth ...
Sierra

Going by what you said in the post above about reality, intention.

[Sierra]

I like that.

Do you think it possible to be even more specific about constructing an act of love ?

- 58

Get into trouble doing that. Kind of like wondering if a kid is not sent to church and trained do they understand? Well, yes they do. All you have to do is watch kids playing, doesn't matter their background, religion, location, culture, century, politics ... if all see the event, if all hear one child shrieking, "That's not fair!", they all know exactly wtf is going on. They know what fair is, they know what love is. Why apply limits?

[58andfixed]

I don't believe it has to do with setting limits.

I believe it has to do with clarity & specificity, and adding to the critical mass of the collective unconscious.

Once absolutely & sublimely confident about the precision of the act, the act has clarity for when, where & how to implement it.

Plus, others will begin to spontaneously 'get it' as well.

The creative mind isn't constrained by limits.

Minds of fear are very much constrained.

Just a thought.

- 58


I like that.

Do you think it possible to be even more specific about constructing an act of love ?

- 58

Why apply limits?

[Sierra]

I don't believe it has to do with setting limits.

I believe it has to do with clarity & specificity, and adding to the critical mass of the collective unconscious.

Once absolutely & sublimely confident about the precision of the act, the act has clarity for when, where & how to implement it.

Plus, others will begin to spontaneously 'get it' as well.

The creative mind isn't constrained by limits.

Minds of fear are very much constrained.

Just a thought.

- 58


Well, by all means then, fearlessly construct away and we will watch you add to the critical mass of the collective unconscious!

[58andfixed]

LOL !

I have already added my effort to the collective unconscious. :)

I was just poking about to see if I could evoke someone else's conscious contribution.

My attempts on prior occasion went unacknowledged.

- 58




Well, by all means then, fearlessly construct away and we will watch you add to the critical mass of the collective unconscious!

[Davidallany]

WHAT DOES TRUTH MEAN TO YOU

Hello, Loveandgratitude.
To me there are two kinds of Truth: conventional and Ultimate.

Conventional is related to space/time and everything within space/time.
Ultimate is related to onenes. In Ultimate Truth, conventional Truth is an illusion.

I hope to see you back on Avalon soon, you have contributed, time, energy and love to so many, please continue with your kindness and generosity.

[Lord Sidious]

WHAT DOES TRUTH MEAN TO YOU

Hello, Loveandgratitude.
To me there are two kinds of Truth: conventional and Ultimate.

Conventional is related to space/time and everything within space/time.
Ultimate is related to onenes. In Ultimate Truth, conventional Truth is an illusion.

I hope to see you back on Avalon soon, you have contributed, time, energy and love to so many, please continue with your kindness and generosity.

I don't think she is coming back David.

[aranuk]

WHAT DOES TRUTH MEAN TO YOU

Hello, Loveandgratitude.
To me there are two kinds of Truth: conventional and Ultimate.

Conventional is related to space/time and everything within space/time.
Ultimate is related to onenes. In Ultimate Truth, conventional Truth is an illusion.

I hope to see you back on Avalon soon, you have contributed, time, energy and love to so many, please continue with your kindness and generosity.

I don't think she is coming back David.

Where has L&G gone and why? Did I miss something?

Stan

[Lord Sidious]

WHAT DOES TRUTH MEAN TO YOU

Hello, Loveandgratitude.
To me there are two kinds of Truth: conventional and Ultimate.

Conventional is related to space/time and everything within space/time.
Ultimate is related to onenes. In Ultimate Truth, conventional Truth is an illusion.

I hope to see you back on Avalon soon, you have contributed, time, energy and love to so many, please continue with your kindness and generosity.

I don't think she is coming back David.

Where has L&G gone and why? Did I miss something?

Stan

Her account is disabled Stanugget, I don't know why, but I can guess it is something to do with the holocaust thread.

[Lord Sidious]

I would like every single last member of this forum to do me a favour.
I would like you all to cut the crap and just debate honestly.
No more point scoring for whatever agendas we have.
People are being hurt and this isn't right.
So, if I have to owe you all one, then get out your ledgers and put a stroke down that I do.
I don't want anymore crap on here that is disguised as debate that is causing other members harm.
Thanks.
Nuggets.

[Seikou-Kishi]

Thanks for the vote of confidence there nugget.
I try, some people might tell you I am very trying, but I am on my journey and still learning.
I will be talking about this at the workshop too.
For one thing, it is much easier to speak it than type it.


Lord Sid-

I am very happy I got to know you now, rather than years ago. You ARE a good guy and a fair one and I believe your purpose in life will be bringing people together, rather than dividing them. That is the highest calling of all.


Me too Goldie, me too.


Well I think you're wonderful and deep down a Golden Nugget !

YOU must soooooooooo be feeling the LOVE.

:music:Let the sunshine, let the sunshine in, the sunshine in ;):music:

[Davidallany]

I don't think she is coming back David.
My Lord, it's the first time I see account suspended I either saw on vacation, uninvited, retired member. Does suspended mean final decision has not been reached?
I still don't know what did Loveandgratitude say to deserve this, I think she should be allowed back. I really don't think she is the impersonation of evil. If the mods and admin are reading this, please reconsider.

[Mark]

I would like every single last member of this forum to do me a favour.
I would like you all to cut the crap and just debate honestly.
No more point scoring for whatever agendas we have.
People are being hurt and this isn't right.
So, if I have to owe you all one, then get out your ledgers and put a stroke down that I do.
I don't want anymore crap on here that is disguised as debate that is causing other members harm.
Thanks.
Nuggets.

This deserves its own thread.

[Davidallany]

This deserves its own thread.
I totally agree sir, the sooner the better.

[ThePythonicCow]

My Lord, it's the first time I see account suspended I either saw on vacation, uninvited, retired member. Does suspended mean final decision has not been reached?
loveandgratitude is indefinitely suspended. Further details are between the mod team and her.

[Davidallany]

loveandgratitude is indefinitely suspended. Further details are between the mod team and her.
Thank you Paul.

[Lord Sidious]

I don't think she is coming back David.
My Lord, it's the first time I see account suspended I either saw on vacation, uninvited, retired member. Does suspended mean final decision has not been reached?
I still don't know what did Loveandgratitude say to deserve this, I think she should be allowed back. I really don't think she is the impersonation of evil. If the mods and admin are reading this, please reconsider.

I don't know David.
If she comes back, she will have to learn that debate is good, but we can't use debate as a bludgeon.
I like L&G but I don't want to see people having issues with debates and then we get ''wars'' going on here.
This isn't the place for it.



I would like every single last member of this forum to do me a favour.
I would like you all to cut the crap and just debate honestly.
No more point scoring for whatever agendas we have.
People are being hurt and this isn't right.
So, if I have to owe you all one, then get out your ledgers and put a stroke down that I do.
I don't want anymore crap on here that is disguised as debate that is causing other members harm.
Thanks.
Nuggets.

This deserves its own thread.

It may come to that yet and I am stocked up on carrots.

[Buck]

I am all for truth, but not when it causes more problems.
I would have used the truth to verbally bludgeon jewish people on the net before.
I don't now.
I never lied, but I misused the truth to become a sword, rather than a shield.
Once we can let go of the hate, we see the world differently.
And it is a much nicer world, even as messed up as it is.

Mr. Sidious, your comments inspire this rumination;

look at this statement -
" It is certainly a noble thing to have the courage to seek and to reveal the truth."

Sounds good to me- a beautiful ideal to aspire to, hard to find fault with. But thanks to Mr. Sidious, it brought my attention to something nagging at me-
The statement is constructed around a premise. The unstated assumption is that truth is absolute, unchanging, impartial, and worthy of dedicating oneself to it, as it is absolute. It is a quality, outside of everything else, that cannot be corrupted or distorted in any way shape or form, because, at some level, at it's purest elemental level of existence, it is TRUTH.

But wait. Mr. Sidious has pointed out, one can use the truth in the service of many things. And if you can distort the truth, then you need to get to bottom of the truth, then that implies there are shades of the truth.

And what of a point of view on what is the truth? And even without touching on the spiritual aspects of this reality, if we look at the so called elemental level, the atomic level, and down down to the core, the the particle level of our entire universe, the stuff that we and everything around is made up of, these very particles, everything is relative. There are no absolutes. There is no absolute location, for example, for any particle that makes up the atoms of our existence. Everything is potential, probable, likely, potential. The determinant, as we all know, is the eye of the observer. This determines the outcome of the event, the narrative of the event, the quality of the event. If I expect particles to behave as waves, they will conform. If I expect particles to behave as particles, they will conform. We are the observer of our own reality. What we expect to find, we find. What we imagine, we create. What we see as absolute, is relative.

And all of this is to say, in many many more words than the erudite Mr. Sidious, I think the question really is, what is our intention? That is the highest consideration.

The truth, yes, by all means. But in the service of what?

try this exercise if you want to explore this idea- here's my version of a "truth meter"

ask yourself, am I speaking Truth, in the service of LOVE, or is truth, in the service of FEAR?

[Buck]

LOL !

I have already added my effort to the collective unconscious. :)

I was just poking about to see if I could evoke someone else's conscious contribution.

My attempts on prior occasion went unacknowledged.

- 58




Well, by all means then, fearlessly construct away and we will watch you add to the critical mass of the collective unconscious!

don't be so sure :)

[58andfixed]

Actually, thank yew for reminding me.

Sometimes the idea takes a while to sink in... :)

A view is all it takes.

- 58


LOL !

I have already added my effort to the collective unconscious. :)

I was just poking about to see if I could evoke someone else's conscious contribution.

My attempts on prior occasion went unacknowledged.

- 58




Well, by all means then, fearlessly construct away and we will watch you add to the critical mass of the collective unconscious!

don't be so sure :)

[58andfixed]

Such a guide may be of substantial value in the application of discernment.

- 58


here's my version of a "truth meter"

ask yourself, am I speaking Truth, in the service of LOVE, or is truth, in the service of FEAR?

[Tony]

What a very sticky topic!

If a thing is true...it can never not be true. Truth has to be constant.
Anything that has a beginning and an end is only partially true.

So, we have an Absolute truth and a Relative truth.
The real, and the seemingly real.

Everything in your head has been placed there,
It is just information, put in from outside.
Your thoughts have no truth about them.

So whatever you claim to be truth is merely hearsay.
It is not even your version.
You do not have an original thought in your head!

However, that which is aware of those very thoughts, is original.
That perception never changes!
That is your Absolute Truth.

With practise, that perception gradually clears of fixatedideas,
as these are just a temporary phenomenon.
Everything in the universe is also a temporary phenomenon.

Space is not temporary, however. It is constant – inner space
and outer space. Although 'they' say the universe is expanding,
it is an object expanding in space.

Pure mind is inner space, totally lucid and clear.
When that is seen, the mind then cannot be controlled!
Your mind can be controlled, by the subliminal thoughts that are
put into it from the outside.
What you think is irrelevant!
What you know is not!

Do not be attached to your thoughts.
Know thyself.

Of course, I have just written a load of rubbish...
...or have I?
How do you know?

[Lord Sidious]

What a very sticky topic!

If a thing is true...it can never not be true. Truth has to be constant.
Anything that has a beginning and an end is only partially true.

So, we have an Absolute truth and a Relative truth.
The real, and the seemingly real.

Everything in your head has been placed there,
It is just information, put in from outside.
Your thoughts have no truth about them.

So whatever you claim to be truth is merely hearsay.
It is not even your version.
You do not have an original thought in your head!

However, that which is aware of those very thoughts, is original.
That perception never changes!
That is your Absolute Truth.

With practise, that perception gradually clears of fixatedideas,
as these are just a temporary phenomenon.
Everything in the universe is also a temporary phenomenon.

Space is not temporary, however. It is constant – inner space
and outer space. Although 'they' say the universe is expanding,
it is an object expanding in space.

Pure mind is inner space, totally lucid and clear.
When that is seen, the mind then cannot be controlled!
Your mind can be controlled, by the subliminal thoughts that are
put into it from the outside.
What you think is irrelevant!
What you know is not!

Do not be attached to your thoughts.
Know thyself.

Of course, I have just written a load of rubbish...
...or have I?
How do you know?

The truth all depends on what goggles we are wearing at the time of course.
Some goggles are very hard to see through and taint everything with the wrong slant.
Trust me, I know.