Astronomers Say Earth Changed Position to its Axis

[Vitalux]

It is a fact that the earth is no longer in the position that it use to be.
The Planet has moved off it's axis and we are drifting South.

For those that are kind of new to this knowledge, you might have remembered many years ago back in the 1940's magnetic North Pole was in Canada.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/05/Prince_of_Wales_Island.svg/200px-Prince_of_Wales_Island.svg.png


Today our magnetic pole now is located in?
http://i1023.photobucket.com/albums/af356/stuarburstphotography/northpole2.jpg

There appears to be a media blackout in terms of what the current location of our magnetic poles are. Some tend to feel that the magnetic pole is now in Russia.

Ok.

Now this is where things are getting strange. The earth has shifted on it's axis.
The earth is moving South-South East.

The natives in the North are reporting that the sun and the position of the stars have changed.

Regions on the planet, such as Greenland, have reported that sunrise is two days earlier during spring compared to the recent past.


Our Planet Earth is starting to topple and the Earth's Poles are going their their transformation of the poles flipping.

Eventually, and inevitably, our Planet is going to flip upside down and from our perspective, the Sun will appear to now rise in the West and set in the East.

This natural cycle of the poles flipping and Planet Earth inverting has been happening every few thousand years.
Yes there will be a great deal of catastrophic damage.
Yes, many will perish, as historically has always happened.

This post is not meant to cause fear. It is merely meant to educate those of a natural process that is currently in progress.

The reason why ancient history tends to be not discussed is that those puppet masters that rule the planet do not wish for you and I to be very much aware of this cycle.

I shall attach a few videos to draw some attention to some of the local media reports about this event.

Further, it would be great if we could get a discussion or debate about this event.
I was among some friends recently, some of whom tend to study climate and environmental and earth sciences.
This very topic was seriously discussed for several hours. There was no dissension among the attendees. This part of history that we are currently living in, is the time when the poles are going to flip.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=681OcWKVwZs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz6QbKt-4_E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDFsmfghnXU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRupgO0x3Kw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ2ani125Kk

Myself I am not worried about Nibiru or a dwarf star coming. The planet is already shifting it's poles. This is the event we are having to currently face.


Comments?

Discussions?

[DeDukshyn]

A complete flip as you say would fulfill the prophecy of the earth "standing still" - in a way that would make the impossible possible. It doesn't have to stop and reverse - it just has to flip to give that effect.

The attempted changes to astrology may be linked to this, we have a new "age" -- so did the precession increase to slot this new age in? or did the ages shrink in length? It strongly appears to be the former ... just an observation ;)

[onawah]

Changes to astrology would certainly need to be made. And what effect on astrology will the presence of the brown dwarf star and Planet X (Nibiru) have on astrology if their existence is confirmed? It would be radical, I would think.

[Vitalux]

A complete flip as you say would fulfill the prophecy of the earth "standing still" - in a way that would make the impossible possible. It doesn't have to stop and reverse - it just has to flip to give that effect.

;)

From my understanding historically this is a continuous cycle which sends human's back into the dark ages. There will come a point where the Earth will move quickly as it flips and we that are in the Northern hemisphere will then be viewing our skys from a Southern hemisphere. It causes a great deal of upheaval.


IMMANUEL VELIKOVSKY - (Ages in Chaos) wrote a few books about earths history of these kind of events.

However he was ridiculed and railroaded out of the scientific community for trying to inform the mass population about our planets actual history.
But such is the nature of most people. They only hear what they want to hear, and the global puppet masters only wish to keep us slaves in ignorance and darkness.


Feel free to message me if you wish me to send you a copy of
IMMANUEL VELIKOVSKY's ebooks.

I tend to believe that a break-away society already exists and have left the planet. They are part of what is known as the military-industrial complex.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Changes to astrology would certainly need to be made. And what effect on astrology will the presence of the brown dwarf star and Planet X (Nibiru) have on astrology if their existence is confirmed? It would be radical, I would think.

Already Happened.
We instead of having 12 zodiacs we they just added one more ....now we have 13.

See this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRukdApvHYI

[Robert J. Niewiadomski]

Hello :)

What would puppet masters gain if we stay ignorant of this tremendous change?

[Billy]

I heard that Spinning in a different direction is good for you :roll:

[Bill Ryan]

-------

You're confusing a magnetic pole shift with a physical pole shift.

With a magnetic pole shift -- currently in process, and this is well-known and well-understood -- there's no physical movement.

[DeDukshyn]

There are much stronger stabilizing forces here -- if the earth does do a quick spin on it's core, it may not be as bad as has been in the past. Human intention is powerful if directed in a common direction.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


-------

You're confusing a magnetic pole shift with a physical pole shift.

With a magnetic pole shift -- currently in process, and this is well-known and well-understood -- there's no physical movement.

I wonder if one has an influence on the other? Any thoughts on this Bill?

[THIRDEYE]

im aware of the poll shifts and i think its not the land masses moving ...its the earth that will flip....im not afraid nor do i have any reservations about this evolutional change...i remember past lives and the information mostly comes in the dream state...i chose to come here as a soul....these time are some of the most magnificant times ln mankind....we will survive and prosper....i think we need to focus on this transitional time....and keep positive and feed the higher collective of love and light....i talk to many poeple and they fear death...why fear it this is part of our dimensional growth...yes paradigms will change..and there will be collateral damage...my shaman friend says this polar shift will be the most magnificant change that we will ever see....i will take out my lawn chairs and ride it out...if it means death than so be it..we are all destined for death at some point of time in our life....i just hope i graduate this life time so i can go back to the stars with my galactic brothers and sisters....light love and abundance....thirdeye....

[Vitalux]

Hello :)

What would puppet masters gain if we stay ignorant of this tremendous change?

I already understand the answer to the question. However to understand it, I would encourage you to consider that question and figure it out for yourself.
I would recommend that you take a few hours and study some Jordan Maxwell lectures.
It took me many years to understand the answer to your question, therefor I only imagine it would take a great deal of time for you to get there as well.

Google on Youtube, "An introduction to Jordan Maxwell" if you are really interested in gaining some insight.

Falling down the rabbit hole is easy, climbing your way back out is hard.
http://imgc.allpostersimages.com/images/P-488-488-90-488-488-90/48/4878/N5U8G00Z/posters/alice-down-the-rabbit-hole.jpg

[Hervé]

It is a fact that the earth is no longer in the position that it use to be.
The Planet has moved off it's axis and we are drifting South.
[...]


Hi Gary,

First of all I'd like to know which astronomers and where are the references with respect to the title of this thread?

Then, where are the data for the "fact" that Earth is moving off its axis, never mind what is meant by "moving off its axis?"

What troubles me with such title and content is that too many things are lumped together:

* Rotation axis

* Drifting of crust with respect to rotation axis

* Drifting of magnetic poles with respect to geographic poles/rotation axis

* Flipping of magnetic poles

* Flipping of geogaphic poles

So, if you could clarify what exactly you are talking about, I think it would be helpful?

Same for posters: Is it magnetic poles flip? Geographic poles flip? Crust slip with respect to rotation axis?

Thanks

Edit:

Thanks Bill!

I was composing this post while you posted...:-)

[Billy]

The magnectic pole shift is happening, I think Mother earth can shift on her own also.

[Vitalux]

-------

You're confusing a magnetic pole shift with a physical pole shift.

With a magnetic pole shift -- currently in process, and this is well-known and well-understood -- there's no physical movement.

Hello Bill
excellent to converse some dialog with you.

I believe the two are actually related.

-We can clearly see that there has been in the past few decades an acceleration in the pace of the movement of the magnetic poles which are moving in a N-N West direction. ( as shown by my OP image)
-It certainly can be proven that the surface of the earth appears to be moving away from the polar axis.

Either way you cut it, there appears to be a very strong case for drawing to the attention that the Planet is starting movement towards a " possible" flip.

Just as the Sun has two magnetic poles, it is assumed that the centre of our galaxy ( the large black singularity - ie black hole) also contains magnetic poles.
When the Earth passes over the galactic center in the near future, that is theorized to also cause the planet to flip.

I wonder if as we are getting closer to the galactic center we are merely seeing this affect come into effect.

It certainly has been well documented in History that the Sun has changed direction in Sunrise and Sunset....many times.
ie,.....West to East....than East to West....than West to East...etc...

[ghostrider]

if it wasn't a physical pole shift, then how could the sun be rising too far north ? the magnetic poles affect the physical poles. otherwise the sun should rise in the exact same location.

[Hervé]

[...]
It certainly has been well documented in History that the Sun has changed direction in Sunrise and Sunset....many times.
ie,.....West to East....than East to West....than West to East...etc...

Using a magnetic compass...

¤=[Post Update]=¤


if it wasn't a physical pole shift, then how could the sun be rising too far north ? the magnetic poles affect the physical poles. otherwise the sun should rise in the exact same location.
Confusing crust position with rotation axis... not corroborated by GPS positioning, hence another phenomenon is involved.

[Robert J. Niewiadomski]

Come on Gary, share your knowledge pleeease... If you want to discuss honestly please do not hide behind your time invested in research. What will TPTW gain from our not knowing about flip? If we know or do not know they have more resources to rescue themselves than we the miserables... Please tell what you know... You started serious topic so be serious yourself. Ok? :)

[Bill Ryan]

You're confusing a magnetic pole shift with a physical pole shift.

With a magnetic pole shift -- currently in process, and this is well-known and well-understood -- there's no physical movement.

I wonder if one has an influence on the other? Any thoughts on this Bill?

A magnetic pole shift, or even a magnetic pole reversal -- which has happened regularly throughout history: ask any geologist -- has no effect on a physical pole shift. The magnetic poles are always on the move.

I used to be a very active mountaineer, and in all my expeditions I always needed to use a compass to navigate. In the days before GPS, the paper maps always stated clearly what the predicted 'drift' of the magnetic pole was per year (in degrees) so that one could calculate and compensate.

This was because the map was hard-copy-printed in a particular year, and then the pole would shift around, each year, after that. For instance, if one was using a 10-year old map, and needed to navigate precisely at night to avoid walking off a cliff (really!), you'd need to know that magnetic north was (say) now exactly 3.5 degrees further to the east from what it was when the map was printed.

The extent to which the angle of magnetic north needs to be recalculated depends on where you are in the world. For example, the magnetic variation in Scotland is very different from that in the Canadian Rockies (I've climbed and hiked a lot in both places). All mountaineers and hikers understand this, and it's part of all basic mountain leader training.

[ThePythonicCow]

Now this is where things are getting strange. The earth has shifted on it's axis.

The earth is moving South-South East.

The natives in the North are reporting that the sun and the position of the stars have changed.

Regions on the planet, such as Greenland, have reported that sunrise is two days earlier during spring compared to the recent past.


Our Planet Earth is starting to topple and the Earth's Poles are going their their transformation of the poles flipping.

Eventually, and inevitably, our Planet is going to flip upside down and from our perspective, the Sun will appear to now rise in the West and set in the East.

I agree that the magnetic poles are moving.

I do not agree that the earth is physically flipping upside down.

For sure, please do not confuse the two by placing them one after the other, so as to use the evidence of a magnetic pole shift to bolster the claim that there is a major physical shifting and flipping occurring. They are not the same!

And for what it's worth, coming from someone with no astronomical credentials ... I call baloney on the second claim, of the physical flipping.

[P.S. - The above post was composed before I noticed Bill's post. -Paul]

[Vitalux]

It is a fact that the earth is no longer in the position that it use to be.
The Planet has moved off it's axis and we are drifting South.
[...]


Hi Gary,

First of all I'd like to know which astronomers and where are the references with respect to the title of this thread?


I have not had any direct dialog with astronomers only a few university students with a background in Environmental sciences. One of my friends who has nearly completed his Ph.D has actually been up in the arctic circle studying climate changes.
It was in discussions with that group that motivated me to post this article.

Now, I can tell you, not a single person from around that table would ever come public and voice their opinions on what we discussed.
It would torpedo any chance they had of having a career.
In fact, any climatologist that works in Canada much have permission of the government before he can publish or make any statements concerning the history of our climate or weather.

I have found, there are two versions of the truth, the one you read about in the paper, and the other which is discussed off camera.



Then, where are the data for the "fact" that Earth is moving off its axis, never mind what is meant by "moving off its axis?"



I am hoping that this thread will bring about a search to discover more information. I myself have no direct proof, only indirect proof. Even if I did, it would be subjective to ridicule and disbelief.

If history repeats itself, and historically it has, than you better learn to either run fast or tread water for a very long time.:target:

[DeDukshyn]

Thanks Bill for your input. The magnetic pole cannot be in the crust else it could not shift seperately - it must be in the core. If a magnetic shift is the core spinning in relation to the crust and a physical shift is the crust spinning across the crystaline core (with magma as the lube), than I would certainly think there is the potential for one to effect the other as one is just the spinning around (or within) the other. Unless I got some facts wrong here about what the magnetic pole really is .. which is possible. ;)

[Vitalux]

Come on Gary, share your knowledge pleeease... If you want to discuss honestly please do not hide behind your time invested in research. What will TPTW gain from our not knowing about flip? If we know or do not know they have more resources to rescue themselves than we the miserables... Please tell what you know... You started serious topic so be serious yourself. Ok? :)

Well I guess it started with me studying a great deal of ancient history.
I would suggest if you wish to gain some insight, you might wish to read the following books for start.

IMMANUEL VELIKOVSKY - Ages in Chaos
IMMANUEL VELIKOVSKY - Earth in Upheaval
IMMANUEL VELIKOVSKY - WORLDS IN COLLISION

When you are done reading those books ...message me back and I can give you the next few books and documents to read as well.

[Robert J. Niewiadomski]

Gary, thank you for your answer :) Now I know :)

[Hervé]

[[...]
One of my friends who has nearly completed his Ph.D has actually been up in the arctic circle studying climate changes.
[...]



I have literally been there and done that as a postdoctoral fellow in another field... very much related to the one we are "discussing" here... hence my call for disambiguation...:p

[Bill Ryan]

-------

If the earth had shifted even one degree physically, none of the many thousands of amateur astronomers (who are not funded or employed by any institutions) would be able to locate (i.e. focus on) any distant astronomical objects any more.

This is because there are computer programs which assist astronomers to find things based on very exact celestial co-ordinates. They would immediately notice if everything in the sky had moved!

The claim that "Astronomers say Earth has Changed positions to its Axis" (sic) is 100% nonsense. No competent astronomers have ever said anything of the kind. The effects would be immediately obvious, dramatic, and quite impossible to suppress or contain.

[ThePythonicCow]

Thanks Bill for your input. The magnetic pole cannot be in the crust else it could not shift seperately - it must be in the core. If a magnetic shift is the core spinning in relation to the crust and a physical shift is the crust spinning across the crystaline core (with magma as the lube), than I would certainly think there is the potential for one to effect the other as one is just the spinning around (or within) the other. Unless I got some facts wrong here about what the magnetic pole really is .. which is possible. ;)
The magnetic field in which our planet earth is embedded does not end at the surface of the earth, nor (more importantly) is it simply an isolated magnetic dipole caused by circulating magnetic material (aka molten iron) in the earth's core. It is more like the magnetic field inside an electric motor, where in this case the main rotor is the sun and the earth is more analogous to one of the permanent magnets within the motor. The earth's shifting position within the solar system and within the galaxy, and the solar system's ever changing dynamics, all result in compass North shifting over time, as mountain climbing, map reading, Bill reports.

I personally have little doubt that the shifting magnetic fields in which physical planet is embedded do indeed cause changes in the physical position and movement of this earth -- just as a house fly landing on a charging rhinoceros changes the course of that rhino. I'm still going to do my best to jump out of the way of that rhino however ... that deflection will have no noticeable affect on the extend of my injuries if the rhino catches up to me.

So I am not saying the changing magnetic fields have precisely zero affect on the motion, orientation or position of the physical planet. Precise zeros are an uncommon reality. I'm saying the affect is and will remain too small to notice, short of perhaps highly specialized measurement efforts.

[Ernie Nemeth]

The idea of the physical movement of the entire lithosphere (?) was first proposed by Hapgood and endorsed by Einstein himself.

This is an excerpt from this site:
http://www.skrause.org/writing/papers/hapgood_and_ecd.shtml

Hapgood claimed that towards the end of the last ice age, around 12,000 years ago, the extensive mass of glacial ice covering the northern continents caused the lithosphere to ‘slip’ over the asthenosphere, moving Antarctica, during a period of at most several centuries, from a position in the middle latitudes to its current location, and at the same time rotating the other continents. Antarctica’s movement to the polar region precipitated the development of its ice cap. Similarly, by shifting the northern ice sheets out of the arctic zone, the end of the ice age was facilitated.

Support for this theory was given in a forward by Albert Einstein to one of Hapgood’s books in 1953:

In a polar region there is continual deposition of ice, which is not symmetrically distributed about the pole. The earth’s rotation acts on these unsymmetrically deposited masses, and produces centrifugal momentum that is transmitted to the rigid crust of the earth. The constantly increasing centrifugal momentum produced in this way will, when it has reached a certain point, produce a movement of the earth’s crust over the rest of the earth’s body... (Hapgood, 1958, p. 1)
The claim is that the great build-up of ice in the northern hemisphere was not situated symmetrically, and that as the earth rotated on its axis, this imbalance caused the lithosphere to ‘slip’ catastrophically, as Hancock states: “much as the skin of an orange, if it were loose, might shift over the inner part of the orange all in one piece.” (Hancock, 1995, p. 10) Naturally, if Antarctica shifted south, and parts of the northern hemisphere moved out of the arctic zone, this implies other areas must have shifted into the arctic area and become colder. Indeed, this is what Hancock claims happened.

For example, Hancock cites “huge numbers of warm-blooded, temperate adapted mammal species were instantly frozen, and then their bodies preserved in the permafrost [...] the bulk of the destruction seems to have taken place during the eleventh millennium BC“ (Hancock, 1995, p. 479). The assumption is, if temperate climate regions were suddenly thrust into polar conditions, large numbers of animals, unable to adapt and/or flee, would perish. Another piece of evidence claims that portions of the Antarctic ice sheet are much younger than previously thought, and that in reality portions of Antarctica remained glacier-free until the end of the last ice age or even later. Hancock writes:

...sedimentary cores collected from the bottom of the Ross Sea by one of the Byrd Antarctic Expeditions provide conclusive evidence that ’great rivers, carrying down fine well grained sediments’ did flow in this part of Antarctica until perhaps as late as 4000 BC (Hancock, 1995, p. 477).
Supposedly, if Antarctica still had flowing rivers, then it could not have been completely covered by ice, and in that case, since we know it is now in a polar location where it is too cold for such rivers, it would make sense if it were previously located outside of a polar climate.

Hope that helps.

[DeDukshyn]

Thanks Bill for your input. The magnetic pole cannot be in the crust else it could not shift seperately - it must be in the core. If a magnetic shift is the core spinning in relation to the crust and a physical shift is the crust spinning across the crystaline core (with magma as the lube), than I would certainly think there is the potential for one to effect the other as one is just the spinning around (or within) the other. Unless I got some facts wrong here about what the magnetic pole really is .. which is possible. ;)
The magnetic field in which our planet earth is embedded does not end at the surface of the earth, nor (more importantly) is it simply an isolated magnetic dipole caused by circulating magnetic material (aka molten iron) in the earth's core. It is more like the magnetic field inside an electric motor, where in this case the main rotor is the sun and the earth is more analogous to one of the permanent magnets within the motor. The earth's shifting position within the solar system and within the galaxy, and the solar system's ever changing dynamics, all result in compass North shifting over time, as mountain climbing, map reading, Bill reports.

I personally have little doubt that the shifting magnetic fields in which physical planet is embedded do indeed cause changes in the physical position and movement of this earth -- just as a house fly landing on a charging rhinoceros changes the course of that rhino. I'm still going to do my best to jump out of the way of that rhino however ... that deflection will have no noticeable affect on the extend of my injuries if the rhino catches up to me.

So I am not saying the changing magnetic fields have precisely zero affect on the motion, orientation or position of the physical planet. Precise zeros are an uncommon reality. I'm saying the affect is and will remain too small to notice, short of perhaps highly specialized measurement efforts.

Thanks for your input Paul. When I was in school we were taught that the magnetic north pole was caused by a magnetic "thing". A convergance of the earth's magnetic field makes more sense - like the fields of a magnet - but earth as a whole unit would have to be very magnetic for that - which it may well be. But then again any "fact" is only valid until a new persepective is gained, then it needs to be re-evaluated - an example being what I was taught as "fact" in school and what is known today are vastly different in many cases. And that is fine by me - process is goal - we should always be seeking to disprove our "facts" because everytime we do we get better "facts".

[Vitalux]

You're confusing a magnetic pole shift with a physical pole shift.

With a magnetic pole shift -- currently in process, and this is well-known and well-understood -- there's no physical movement.

I wonder if one has an influence on the other? Any thoughts on this Bill?

A magnetic pole shift, or even a magnetic pole reversal -- which has happened regularly throughout history: ask any geologist -- has no effect on a physical pole shift. The magnetic poles are always on the move.

I used to be a very active mountaineer, and in all my expeditions I always needed to use a compass to navigate. In the days before GPS, the paper maps always stated clearly what the predicted 'drift' of the magnetic pole was per year (in degrees) so that one could calculate and compensate.

This was because the map was hard-copy-printed in a particular year, and then the pole would shift around, each year, after that. For instance, if one was using a 10-year old map, and needed to navigate precisely at night to avoid walking off a cliff (really!), you'd need to know that magnetic north was (say) now exactly 3.5 degrees further to the east from what it was when the map was printed.

The extent to which the angle of magnetic north needs to be recalculated depends on where you are in the world. For example, the magnetic variation in Scotland is very different from that in the Canadian Rockies (I've climbed and hiked a lot in both places). All mountaineers and hikers understand this, and it's part of all basic mountain leader training.

Bill have you ever read or studied any of the writings or lectures of Immanuel Velikovsky?
For example there is a very good book called Earth in Upheaval.
I can email you a ebook copy if you wish. It makes for some very interesting reading.
Would you like me to email you the books?

I first heard of the earth flipping as part of our ancient history back in the early 1970's from one of my history teachers. It was he that actually encouraged me to study some of books by the above author.
Since then, my travels with studying the past always brought me back and forth across this understanding.

For example we know there there certainly have been reports in the media that positions and astronomical alignments have changed in reference to the position of the sun and stars up in the North.

Like I said before, is it just a coincidence that the magnetic poles are rapidly moving while at the same time it is reported in the media that the earth axis has changed?

[Hervé]

[...]
For example, Hancock cites “huge numbers of warm-blooded, temperate adapted mammal species were instantly frozen, and then their bodies preserved in the permafrost [...] the bulk of the destruction seems to have taken place during the eleventh millennium BC“ (Hancock, 1995, p. 479). The assumption is, if temperate climate regions were suddenly thrust into polar conditions, large numbers of animals, unable to adapt and/or flee, would perish.
[...]


There is one very BIG problem with these "Flash Frozen" mastodonts: even if a crustal slip/shift was instantaneous, the vegetation inside the stomachs of these mastodonts wouldn't have been flash frozen but in various states of decay. Something else happened then and I don't what (the equivalent of being drowned in liquid nitrogen) but it definitely was significant!

[DeDukshyn]

[...]
For example, Hancock cites “huge numbers of warm-blooded, temperate adapted mammal species were instantly frozen, and then their bodies preserved in the permafrost [...] the bulk of the destruction seems to have taken place during the eleventh millennium BC“ (Hancock, 1995, p. 479). The assumption is, if temperate climate regions were suddenly thrust into polar conditions, large numbers of animals, unable to adapt and/or flee, would perish.
[...]


There is one very BIG problem with these "Flash Frozen" mastodonts: even if a crustal slip/shift was instantaneous, the vegetation inside the stomachs of these mastodonts wouldn't have been flash frozen but in various states of decay. Something else happened then and I don't what (the equivalent of being drown in liquid nitrogen) but it definitely was significant!

Hmmm ... I wonder how long it takes to freeze a mastodon at x temperature ... I wish I had a mastodon freezing chart ;-) That might give us a clue ...

[Hervé]

[...]
For example, Hancock cites “huge numbers of warm-blooded, temperate adapted mammal species were instantly frozen, and then their bodies preserved in the permafrost [...] the bulk of the destruction seems to have taken place during the eleventh millennium BC“ (Hancock, 1995, p. 479). The assumption is, if temperate climate regions were suddenly thrust into polar conditions, large numbers of animals, unable to adapt and/or flee, would perish.
[...]


There is one very BIG problem with these "Flash Frozen" mastodonts: even if a crustal slip/shift was instantaneous, the vegetation inside the stomachs of these mastodonts wouldn't have been flash frozen but in various states of decay. Something else happened then and I don't what (the equivalent of being drown in liquid nitrogen) but it definitely was significant!

Hmmm ... I wonder how long it takes to freeze a mastodon at x temperature ... I wish I had a mastodon freezing chart ;-) That might give us a clue ...

Indeed!

Closest is being thrown in a pool of liquid nitrogen, because that's a huge, warm mass to freeze instantly for stomach vegetation to be preserved.

I think (to be verified) that it's in the order of less than 60 seconds for vegetables....

[Vitalux]

[[...]
One of my friends who has nearly completed his Ph.D has actually been up in the arctic circle studying climate changes.
[...]



I have literally been there and done that as a postdoctoral fellow in another field... very much related to the one we are "discussing" here... hence my call for disambiguation...:p

Like I said earlier in my post. When I sit around the living room or kitchen table and we have discussions while socializing, with various friends that are currently involved in either school or various places in the work field, I can not use their names and quote any words that they have spoken. It would not be fair and you above all should realize that ones personal views can often contradict with the official views of their institutions.


Much the same way as you would be hard pressed to get many air line pilots publicly admitting they seen flying saucers, or politicians admitting the they took bribes.

My mentioning the discussions with the friend that had been to the arctic circle was more so people could understand that I was gaining some interesting insights through listening to the thoughts and opinions of someone that was researching climate.
That being said, I am aware that just because someone has a university degree does not mean they are necessarily all that bright, it more could mean that they just have the ability to be a very well trained parrot.
As this same group sits in discussion it is a joke to them on how the public is fed this hog wash about carbon gas causing global warming....but that is another story.

[Bill Ryan]

You're confusing a magnetic pole shift with a physical pole shift.

With a magnetic pole shift -- currently in process, and this is well-known and well-understood -- there's no physical movement.

I wonder if one has an influence on the other? Any thoughts on this Bill?

A magnetic pole shift, or even a magnetic pole reversal -- which has happened regularly throughout history: ask any geologist -- has no effect on a physical pole shift. The magnetic poles are always on the move.

I used to be a very active mountaineer, and in all my expeditions I always needed to use a compass to navigate. In the days before GPS, the paper maps always stated clearly what the predicted 'drift' of the magnetic pole was per year (in degrees) so that one could calculate and compensate.

This was because the map was hard-copy-printed in a particular year, and then the pole would shift around, each year, after that. For instance, if one was using a 10-year old map, and needed to navigate precisely at night to avoid walking off a cliff (really!), you'd need to know that magnetic north was (say) now exactly 3.5 degrees further to the east from what it was when the map was printed.

The extent to which the angle of magnetic north needs to be recalculated depends on where you are in the world. For example, the magnetic variation in Scotland is very different from that in the Canadian Rockies (I've climbed and hiked a lot in both places). All mountaineers and hikers understand this, and it's part of all basic mountain leader training.

Bill have you ever read or studied any of the writings or lectures of Immanuel Velikovsky?


Yes, for sure -- the earth has certainly shifted on its poles before.

[Hervé]

... hence my call for disambiguation...:p

Like I said earlier in my post. When I sit around the living room or kitchen table and we have discussions while socializing, with various friends that are currently involved in either school or various places in the work field, I can not use their names and quote any words that they have spoken. It would not be fair and you above all should realize that ones personal views can often contradict with the official views of their institutions.


Much the same way as you would be hard pressed to get many air line pilots publicly admitting they seen flying saucers, or politicians admitting the they took bribes.

My mentioning the discussions with the friend that had been to the arctic circle was more so people could understand that I was gaining some interesting insights through listening to the thoughts and opinions of someone that was researching climate.
That being said, I am aware that just because someone has a university degree does not mean they are necessarily all that bright, it more could mean that they just have the ability to be a very well trained parrot.
As this same group sits in discussion it is a joke to them on how the public is fed this hog wash about carbon gas causing global warming....but that is another story.

Ok... what about the disambiguation so that any reader can understand what is what?

[Vitalux]

-------

If the earth had shifted even one degree physically, none of the many thousands of amateur astronomers (who are not funded or employed by any institutions) would be able to locate (i.e. focus on) any distant astronomical objects any more.

This is because there are computer programs which assist astronomers to find things based on very exact celestial co-ordinates. They would immediately notice if everything in the sky had moved!

The claim that "Astronomers say Earth has Changed positions to its Axis" (sic) is 100% nonsense. No competent astronomers have ever said anything of the kind. The effects would be immediately obvious, dramatic, and quite impossible to suppress or contain.

Gee Wizz Bill I am a bit confused when i read articles such as the ones listed below.....what are they discussing then?


Japan Earthquake Alters Coast Line, Changes Earth's Axis
The massive earthquake that hit Japan on Friday was so powerful that it changed the shape of the country's coastline and shifted the earth's axis.

Geophysicist Kenneth Hudnut, who works for the U.S. Geological Survey, told CNN that the quake moved part of Japan's land mass by nearly 2.5 meters.

Experts say that the huge shake, caused by a shift in the tectonic plates deep underwater, also threw the earth off its axis point by at least 8 centimeters.


Url at http://www.voanews.com/english/news/asia/Japans-Earthquake-Alters-Coast-Line-Changes-Earths-Axis-117857349.html


Chilean Quake May Have Shortened Earth Days


The Feb. 27 magnitude 8.8 earthquake in Chile may have shortened the length of each Earth day.

JPL research scientist Richard Gross computed how Earth's rotation should have changed as a result of the Feb. 27 quake. Using a complex model, he and fellow scientists came up with a preliminary calculation that the quake should have shortened the length of an Earth day by about 1.26 microseconds (a microsecond is one millionth of a second).

url http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/earth-20100301.html


So Bill how come the astronomers never mentioned they had problems recalibrating their telescopes? Just curious? any thoughts?

¤=[Post Update]=¤




Yes, for sure -- the earth has certainly shifted on its poles before.

Bill do you believe that history can repeat itself?

[DeDukshyn]

Well if you assume that the earth has not changed in any way (other than magnetic poles moving - that is obvious - they are moving really fast these days), then was all that talk of a new astrological age disinfo? are all the eyewitnesses of this phenomon part of this disinfo program? Let's assume that is also true (at least to explain it). Someone(s) in "high" powers is getting very desperate if this is the case -- and well possible.

However, I'm still not thoroughly convinced that a physical shift and a magnetic shift have zero effect on one another - when you turn a magnet - it's fields turn (they stay relative to the poles of the magnet itself) - if the earth is a permanent magnet (to use Paul's analogy) and it itself is not moving, what is causing earth's magnetic fields to move seperately from the earth itself? What has changed that this is happening now and not before? Is it cyclical planetary alignments? if so, why is this not predicted or predictable? - ancients mapped the precesion -- why not the pole shifts? Surely if it is due to the interactions between planets it can be easily modelled and predicted? And what of the frozen mastodons and other ancient mammals as Amzer suggested, plants found frozen alive under miles of ice in the antarctic. There's more to this than meets the eye ... I don't have the answers, but I'm good at making more questions ;)

[Vitalux]

Ok... what about the disambiguation so that any reader can understand what is what?

I am providing the viewer with youtube video links.
I am providing the viewer with book links.
I am attempting to answer dialogue with reference to the topic.

I am not sitting here saying I am a scientist or an expert.
If you want me to prove something, than I am at a loss. I can't even prove to you the moon is real.
My goal is just to provide this forum with food for consideration or thought.
It is up to each individual to research and determine what can exist or not exist in their reality.

This information would bring a state of cognitive Indifference to most because they are not even aware that this flipping of the planet has happened many times over our history and brought about the dark ages.

[Hervé]

[...]

Geophysicist Kenneth Hudnut, who works for the U.S. Geological Survey, told CNN that the quake moved part of Japan's land mass by nearly 2.5 meters.

Experts say that the huge shake, caused by a shift in the tectonic plates deep underwater, also threw the earth off its axis point by at least 8 centimeters[/I].[/CENTER]



That's the trouble with sensationalistic news (CNN that got it from Reuters... big red flag right there) when trying to make something "real." The magnitude of the EQ kept increasing by the hour in an attempt to explain the size of the tsunami when the quake itself caused less physical damages than the Kobe EQ (other threads on this forum).

Moreover, if even that were true, that the axis was thrown off by 8 cm, did they mention if it came back to position? (try with a top or a gyroscope)

[Vitalux]

[...]

Geophysicist Kenneth Hudnut, who works for the U.S. Geological Survey, told CNN that the quake moved part of Japan's land mass by nearly 2.5 meters.

Experts say that the huge shake, caused by a shift in the tectonic plates deep underwater, also threw the earth off its axis point by at least 8 centimeters[/I].[/CENTER]



That's the trouble with sensationalistic news (CNN that got it from Reuters... big red flag right there) when trying to make something "real." The magnitude of the EQ kept increasing by the hour in an attempt to explain the size of the tsunami when the quake itself caused less physical damages than the Kobe EQ (other threads on this forum).

Moreover, if even that were true, that the axis was thrown off by 8 cm, did they mention if it came back to position? (try with a top or a gyroscope)

Not that I have any great faith in NASA but;

Would a report from NASA carry more 'scientific merit or weight? :cheer2:



NASA: Chile quake shortened earth’s days, bumped planet off axis

The magnitude 8.8 earthquake that hit Chile over the weekend—killing hundreds, and leaving hundreds of thousands homeless—may have shortened the length of each Earth day, according to JPL research scientist Richard Gross.
Perhaps more impressive is how much the quake shifted Earth's axis. Gross calculates the quake should have moved Earth's figure axis (the axis about which Earth's mass is balanced) by 2.7 milliarcseconds (about 8 centimeters, or 3 inches). Earth's figure axis is not the same as its north-south axis; they are offset by about 10 meters (about 33 feet).

url http://boingboing.net/2010/03/01/nasa-chile-quake-sho.html



Moreover, if even that were true, that the axis was thrown off by 8 cm, did they mention if it came back to position? (try with a top or a gyroscope)


Perhaps you can enlighten us with some information as to the the earth coming back into position. So far to date, you appear to be the first person I have encountered that has offerred such a statement that things went back to 'position like a gyroscope'
Can you share any links to such conclusions?

[Hervé]

Ok... what about the disambiguation so that any reader can understand what is what?

I am providing the viewer with youtube video links.
I am providing the viewer with book links.
I am attempting to answer dialogue with reference to the topic.

I am not sitting here saying I am a scientist or an expert.
If you want me to prove something, than I am at a loss. I can't even prove to you the moon is real.
My goal is just to provide this forum with food for consideration or thought.
It is up to each individual to research and determine what can exist or not exist in their reality.

This information would bring a state of cognitive Indifference to most because they are not even aware that this flipping of the planet has happened many times over our history and brought about the dark ages.

I am refering to this:


[...]

Hi Gary,

First of all I'd like to know which astronomers and where are the references with respect to the title of this thread?

Then, where are the data for the "fact" that Earth is moving off its axis, never mind what is meant by "moving off its axis?"

What troubles me with such title and content is that too many things are lumped together:

* Rotation axis

* Drifting of crust with respect to rotation axis

* Drifting of magnetic poles with respect to geographic poles/rotation axis

* Flipping of magnetic poles

* Flipping of geogaphic poles

So, if you could clarify what exactly you are talking about, I think it would be helpful?

Same for posters: Is it magnetic poles flip? Geographic poles flip? Crust slip with respect to rotation axis?

Thanks

Edit:

Thanks Bill!

I was composing this post while you posted...:-)

[Hervé]

[...]

Not that I have any great faith in NASA but;

Would a report from NASA carry more 'scientific merit or weight? :cheer2:



NASA: Chile quake shortened earth’s days, bumped planet off axis

The magnitude 8.8 earthquake that hit Chile over the weekend—killing hundreds, and leaving hundreds of thousands homeless—may have shortened the length of each Earth day, according to JPL research scientist Richard Gross.
Perhaps more impressive is how much the quake shifted Earth's axis. Gross calculates the quake should have moved Earth's figure axis (the axis about which Earth's mass is balanced) by 2.7 milliarcseconds (about 8 centimeters, or 3 inches). Earth's figure axis is not the same as its north-south axis; they are offset by about 10 meters (about 33 feet).

url http://boingboing.net/2010/03/01/nasa-chile-quake-sho.html

:lol:

Compare the actual content to the title of the article...

[DeDukshyn]

[...]
For example, Hancock cites “huge numbers of warm-blooded, temperate adapted mammal species were instantly frozen, and then their bodies preserved in the permafrost [...] the bulk of the destruction seems to have taken place during the eleventh millennium BC“ (Hancock, 1995, p. 479). The assumption is, if temperate climate regions were suddenly thrust into polar conditions, large numbers of animals, unable to adapt and/or flee, would perish.
[...]


There is one very BIG problem with these "Flash Frozen" mastodonts: even if a crustal slip/shift was instantaneous, the vegetation inside the stomachs of these mastodonts wouldn't have been flash frozen but in various states of decay. Something else happened then and I don't what (the equivalent of being drown in liquid nitrogen) but it definitely was significant!

Hmmm ... I wonder how long it takes to freeze a mastodon at x temperature ... I wish I had a mastodon freezing chart ;-) That might give us a clue ...

Indeed!

Closest is being thrown in a pool of liquid nitrogen, because that's a huge, warm mass to freeze instantly for stomach vegetation to be preserved.

I think (to be verified) that it's in the order of less than 60 seconds for vegetables....

:offtopic:water ... ? from the bottom of the ocean - very cold. not cold enough to instantly freeze, but to cut the oxygen that would be required for decay .. just a fleeting thought ... perhaps fits with the flood of Noah story ... again I didn't think this through just a fleeting thought ... ;-):focus:

[Vitalux]

Ok... what about the disambiguation so that any reader can understand what is what?

I am providing the viewer with youtube video links.
I am providing the viewer with book links.
I am attempting to answer dialogue with reference to the topic.

I am not sitting here saying I am a scientist or an expert.
If you want me to prove something, than I am at a loss. I can't even prove to you the moon is real.
My goal is just to provide this forum with food for consideration or thought.
It is up to each individual to research and determine what can exist or not exist in their reality.

This information would bring a state of cognitive Indifference to most because they are not even aware that this flipping of the planet has happened many times over our history and brought about the dark ages.

I am refering to this:


[...]

Hi Gary,

First of all I'd like to know which astronomers and where are the references with respect to the title of this thread?

Then, where are the data for the "fact" that Earth is moving off its axis, never mind what is meant by "moving off its axis?"

What troubles me with such title and content is that too many things are lumped together:

* Rotation axis

* Drifting of crust with respect to rotation axis

* Drifting of magnetic poles with respect to geographic poles/rotation axis

* Flipping of magnetic poles

* Flipping of geogaphic poles

So, if you could clarify what exactly you are talking about, I think it would be helpful?

Same for posters: Is it magnetic poles flip? Geographic poles flip? Crust slip with respect to rotation axis?

Thanks

Edit:

Thanks Bill!

I was composing this post while you posted...:-)

Would you also like some fries with that order?
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_maobprvzkv4/SKEvXC8U5QI/AAAAAAAAAI0/_8Bjl-Bc5VU/s400/yummy+fries.jpg

[Hervé]

:offtopic:water ... ? from the bottom of the ocean - very cold. not cold enough to instantly freeze, but to cut the oxygen that would be required for decay .. just a fleeting thought ... perhaps fits with the flood of Noah story ... again I didn't think this through just a fleeting thought ... ;-):focus:

Tough to ice-cube a mammoth... water IIRC is densest at 4 °C (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Properties_of_water#Density_of_water_and_ice), that would be what's at ocean bottoms? Would still be sealed in the beast's stomach.

[DeDukshyn]

It is a fact that the earth is no longer in the position that it use to be.
The Planet has moved off it's axis and we are drifting South.
[...]


Hi Gary,

First of all I'd like to know which astronomers and where are the references with respect to the title of this thread?

Then, where are the data for the "fact" that Earth is moving off its axis, never mind what is meant by "moving off its axis?"

What troubles me with such title and content is that too many things are lumped together:

* Rotation axis

* Drifting of crust with respect to rotation axis

* Drifting of magnetic poles with respect to geographic poles/rotation axis

* Flipping of magnetic poles

* Flipping of geogaphic poles

So, if you could clarify what exactly you are talking about, I think it would be helpful?

Same for posters: Is it magnetic poles flip? Geographic poles flip? Crust slip with respect to rotation axis?

Thanks

Edit:

Thanks Bill!

I was composing this post while you posted...:-)

Distinctions are highly valuable, I regularly recommend them in discussions - and occasionally get lashed for it, lol :p. But I concur. There should be some common context so no one has to make any assumptions about anything - a more valuable discussion could be had then.

[Vitalux]

DeDukshyn

Another part of the puzzle is the during a polar flip, is that the earth temporarily loses it's magnetosphere ( Van Allan radiation Belts) and as part of the equation goes our planet is exposed to solar blasts as well as solar winds.
We certainly know the higher up you go in the atmosphere the colder it gets.
Think of what possibilities might exist if part of our lower atmosphere was blown away into space.

[DeDukshyn]

DeDukshyn

Another part of the puzzle is the during a polar flip, is that the earth temporarily loses it's magnetosphere ( Van Allan radiation Belts) and as part of the equation goes our planet is exposed to solar blasts as well as solar winds.
We certainly know the higher up you go in the atmosphere the colder it gets.
Think of what possibilities might exist if part of our lower atmosphere was blown away into space.

haha, awesome. I had that exact same thought when thinking about the mastodon problem -- lack of atmosphere -- but I couldn't find the reason for lack of atmosphere, but then there you go and say it ;) I recall hearing that theory now.

[Bill Ryan]

-------

If the earth had shifted even one degree physically, none of the many thousands of amateur astronomers (who are not funded or employed by any institutions) would be able to locate (i.e. focus on) any distant astronomical objects any more.

This is because there are computer programs which assist astronomers to find things based on very exact celestial co-ordinates. They would immediately notice if everything in the sky had moved!

The claim that "Astronomers say Earth has Changed positions to its Axis" (sic) is 100% nonsense. No competent astronomers have ever said anything of the kind. The effects would be immediately obvious, dramatic, and quite impossible to suppress or contain.

Gee Wizz Bill I am a bit confused when i read articles such as the ones listed below.....what are they discussing then?


Japan Earthquake Alters Coast Line, Changes Earth's Axis
The massive earthquake that hit Japan on Friday was so powerful that it changed the shape of the country's coastline and shifted the earth's axis.

Geophysicist Kenneth Hudnut, who works for the U.S. Geological Survey, told CNN that the quake moved part of Japan's land mass by nearly 2.5 meters.

Experts say that the huge shake, caused by a shift in the tectonic plates deep underwater, also threw the earth off its axis point by at least 8 centimeters.

8 centimeters = 3 inches. That's absolutely, totally, completely negligible. Not exactly a pole shift! :)

[Vitalux]

Distinctions are highly valuable, I regularly recommend them in discussions - and occasionally get lashed for it, lol :p. But I concur. There should be some common context so no one has to make any assumptions about anything - a more valuable discussion could be had then.

I had pointed out earlier that I believe they were all interconnected and interrelated.

[DeDukshyn]

Distinctions are highly valuable, I regularly recommend them in discussions - and occasionally get lashed for it, lol :p. But I concur. There should be some common context so no one has to make any assumptions about anything - a more valuable discussion could be had then.

I had pointed out earlier that I believe they were all interconnected and interrelated.

I was thinking the same why myself, but the more distinctions the better is my motto ;)

[161803398]

The astrological signs are already a month out for about the past 600 years. The reason is precession. The ancient people know about it; but we didn't until recently. When astrology was banned by the Church, a great deal of information was suppressed. When the astrologers started practicing again, the information about precession had been lost. So they didn't realize that their charts were out. Then, recently we discovered precession again. In short, and for example, according to astrology I am a gemini but according to the actual position of the constellations, I am a Taurus..and that has been the case for around 600 years as I recall.

[161803398]

And there are those who believe that having us believe we are one astrological sign instead of what we actually are has screwed us up a bit. People are very good at adapting to what they think they are supposed to be; but, If astrology does, in fact, work, it might be preferable if we had the kaleidoscope turned in the right direction and had knowledge of who we really are.

[Vitalux]

8 centimeters = 3 inches. That's absolutely, totally, completely negligible. Not exactly a pole shift! :)

Well Bill I didn't really want to get down to semantics but your earlier statement from your own advocation


-------

If the earth had shifted even one degree physically, none of the many thousands of amateur astronomers (who are not funded or employed by any institutions) would be able to locate (i.e. focus on) any distant astronomical objects any more.

This is because there are computer programs which assist astronomers to find things based on very exact celestial co-ordinates. They would immediately notice if everything in the sky had moved!

The claim that "Astronomers say Earth has Changed positions to its Axis" (sic) is 100% nonsense. No competent astronomers have ever said anything of the kind. The effects would be immediately obvious, dramatic, and quite impossible to suppress or contain.

However even those 8 centermeters reflects that the Earth has changed positions on it's axis.

I have supported my claim that it has, and you state that 3 inches is not a pole shift.

Well respected scientists have stated that indeed the Earth has shifted from it's axis.

Apparently the shift in the Earth axis appears to have caused enough of a reaction that there is a change in daylight in the North re:


Sunrises two days early in Greenland

An unusual occurrence happened in Ilulissat, which is the third largest settlement in Greenland with about 4,500 residents. This city is located about 200 miles north of the Arctic Circle on the west coast of the island.

The sun "rose" for the first time in 2011 on Tuesday, January 11th. Since this city is north of the Arctic Circle, there is nothing unusual with the sun not being visible near the winter solstice. What is unusual is the sun was not supposed to rise until two days later, on Thursday, January 13th.

http://www.accuweather.com/blogs/astronomy/story/44335/sunrise-two-days-early-in-greenland.asp


Now Bill this forum is suppose to be open to discuss differing ideas and awareness.
This whole topic of the planet flipping is nothing new. I am not just sitting here spewing out garbage that I have made up.
I am talking about something that I have a general understanding of based on what I have read and chatted about with others.

You and I most certainly can agree that the Media does not always report to the masses the true facts of scientific findings.

[Jake]

On average, the Earth Plates move somewhere Between 2-7 centimeters per year. The 'wobble' of our earth offsets the true calender by,, who knows how much. As the sun rises and sets over countless ions of time,,, I think it is safe to say that 8 centimeters is absolutely negligible. Earth changes are cyclical.

[Vitalux]

Distinctions are highly valuable, I regularly recommend them in discussions - and occasionally get lashed for it, lol :p. But I concur. There should be some common context so no one has to make any assumptions about anything - a more valuable discussion could be had then.

I had pointed out earlier that I believe they were all interconnected and interrelated.

I was thinking the same why myself, but the more distinctions the better is my motto ;)

So true...but only to a point.
I have had debates in many forums over the years where in the end .

Opponents ( a.k.a hecklers), will just keep calling for an insurmountable amount of evidence to support the OP's claim.

The heckler, will just refuse to consider the newly presented evidence and just keep crying out that you need to prove it with more evidence.

Often those that do, only intent is to derail the thread.

[TigaHawk]

Has anyone actualy take then the time to go out and look at the stars, and draw what you see?


Last night i came to the realisation that something isnt "right"


I have one group of stars that moves say south over the period of the night (say 7pm its directly above me, then it slowly moves south out of view by 2-3am) yet another set of stars (nowhere near as bright, but still visible) seem to move east over the same period of time.


Tried getting a photo of the sky but it cant capture the light of the stars. Was going to make it a project on my next set of days off to take a picture of the area im looking (during the day) and draw an outline of the buildings to use them as a view reference. Then with a pen draw in where the stars are, and the time. Once an hour, to see whats actualy going on.


Has anyone else noticed their stars moving funny - and would it have anything to do with earth moving axis?

[DeDukshyn]

...

Opponents ( a.k.a hecklers), will just keep calling for an insurmountable amount of evidence to support the OP's claim.

The heckler, will just refuse to consider the newly presented evidence and just keep crying out that you need to prove it with more evidence.

Often those that do, only intent is to derail the thread.

You are right -
... so true to a point ...
It is to the point were the resolution of the distinctions become less effective, I guess you could say to the point where further distinctions no longer increase quality of communication. And hecklers are what they are, but some people just need more info rather than relying on deduction, etc, - so there's that as well, and of course everyone wants more evidence, and more story, that's just the nature of things. My 2 cents ;)

[Ernie Nemeth]

I believe even Velickovsky stated that these shifts happened in the course of a few days to weeks. I remember Sitchin saying something similar. There was no warning. So a gradual slip is not supported by Velikovsky's data.

I might be wrong, going by memory, although his books are staring me in the face, I'm too lazy to look it up.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Vitalux]

Has anyone actualy take then the time to go out and look at the stars, and draw what you see?

Has anyone else noticed their stars moving funny - and would it have anything to do with earth moving axis?

Myself I am actually a novas astronomer and most of my efforts have just been to learn the various constellations and track the stars by the naked eye.
I have the problem that I live close to the city, so between the chem trails and light pollution I am often in a struggle to effectively see a clear starry sky.

However I tend to be inclined to have noticed a change in the position with respect to North of the Big Dipper. I am just not sure though.

Subsequently, I do take very seriously claims of Native people up above the arctic circle and in Northern latitudes when they report that the position of the sun and stars have changed.

They simply are in an expert position to make better claims because it is from those stars which they depend on for navigation. They know what the stars are suppose to look like, much like how we know what the back of our hand looks like.

http://www.windows.ucar.edu/earth/polar/images/lc_inuit3_sm.jpg

[Vitalux]

I believe even Velickovsky stated that these shifts happened in the course of a few days to weeks. I remember Sitchin saying something similar. There was no warning. So a gradual slip is not supported by Velikovsky's data.

I might be wrong, going by memory, although his books are staring me in the face, I'm too lazy to look it up.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Quite correct.
However, velikovsky's reports cover more than one age where cosmic events occurred where there was a shifting of our planet from either its orbital path, or the inverting of our Earth relevant to it's current position.

In relation to the planet inverting it happened rather quickly. Over the course of just less than a few hours.
Last time this event occurred was about 1500 year BCE around the time of Moses.
http://pal2pal.com/BLOGEE/images/uploads/charlton_heston_plays_moses.jpg


But to add, about 750+/1 BCE there was major cosmic problems however that is another story for another topic thread. That was dealing with cosmic alignment of planet bodies.

[Vitalux]

It is to the point were the resolution of the distinctions become less effective, I guess you could say to the point where further distinctions no longer increase quality of communication. And hecklers are what they are, but some people just need more info rather than relying on deduction, etc, - so there's that as well, and of course everyone wants more evidence, and more story, that's just the nature of things. My 2 cents ;)

True

Then we often are left with a paradox.
In order to gain insight into another persons awareness, we would have to review everything they have referenced to draw upon their conclusions.
That would be a bit challenging for example for Professor to have to prove to a 4 year old child that Santa Clause can not possibly fly around the world and visit all those homes in just one night.

Often in a forum such as this, ideas will get introduced as food for thought. The knowledge seeker can only view information as seeds being cast into the soil.
Unless the listener toils on his own, to till his understanding, then understanding of the harvest would prove unvaluable.

[DeDukshyn]

It is to the point were the resolution of the distinctions become less effective, I guess you could say to the point where further distinctions no longer increase quality of communication. And hecklers are what they are, but some people just need more info rather than relying on deduction, etc, - so there's that as well, and of course everyone wants more evidence, and more story, that's just the nature of things. My 2 cents ;)

True

Then we often are left with a paradox.
In order to gain insight into another persons awareness, we would have to review everything they have referenced to draw upon their conclusions.
That would be a bit challenging for example for Professor to have to prove to a 4 year old child that Santa Clause can not possibly fly around the world and visit all those homes in just one night.

Often in a forum such as this, ideas will get introduced as food for thought. The knowledge seeker can only view information as seeds being cast into the soil.
Unless the listener does toils on his own to till his understanding, the understanding of the harvest would prove invaluable.

Yes, that's why I think it's often better just viewed as art (communication in general); And the resolution of distinction will aid in determining how well the viewer is able to interpret the piece as the artist intended. That's another way of looking at it. The "harvest" analogy is also good. ;)

[Ernie Nemeth]

but some people just need more info rather than relying on deduction

I rely on you Dedukshyn. lol

Sorry, couldn't resist

[Hughe]

I stopped buying mainstream sciences to understand global / cosmic effects.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_declination

Radionavigation aids located on the ground, such as VORs, are also checked and updated to keep them aligned with magnetic north to allow pilots to use their magnetic compasses for accurate and reliable in-plane navigation.
The Earth’s magnetic north pole is slowly heading toward Russia, according to scientists, but one of the places being affected by this is Tampa International Airport (TIA) in Tampa, Florida. Airport officials closed its main runway in the second week of January 2011, to adjust the taxiway signs accounting for the magnetic pole shift, Tampa Bay Online reports. The runway designation change was called for by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) to reflect a previous National Geographic News report which indicated that the magnetic pole was heading in Russia’s direction at almost 40 miles per year.


10 years will be 400 miles, 640 km difference of pole shift, 100 years make 6400km right there the radius of Earth.

I don't trust Wikipedia. But, they are pretty good at propagating mainstream scientific views, data so far.
It's very hard to access real scientific data cause all academic journals are paid subscription. Public libraries that I know only have shallow information. Internet is limited.

How the animals, i.e penguins that I like, navigate the global and survive on eons in such dramatic changes of nature? It's mind boggling.
Maybe the emperor penguins know how to read star formation while floating on the sea in the sky. Using magnetic navigation will lead them Africa or other region not antarctic.

There is shift of the rotational axis of Earth. There is crust shift of Earth. All these things are interconnected.

I'm sure they know something's going on big time. Would they disclose it? Who knows. I gonna observe stars often in the night.

[Vitalux]

I stopped buying mainstream sciences to understand global / cosmic effects.



10 years will be 400 miles, 640 km difference of pole shift, 100 years make 6400km right there the radius of Earth.



Hughe
The speed are actually increasing at an alarming rate. So the rate of 40 miles a year is now old news. By now it could have increased at a much higher rate. In the past 10 years the rate of speed has almost trippled.
Therefore at would be reasonable to assume that the speed could increase exponentially based on its recent history.
Therefore in less than 10 years it could be moving at a rate of several hundred miles per year.





I don't trust Wikipedia. But, they are pretty good at propagating mainstream scientific views, data so far.
It's very hard to access real scientific data cause all academic journals are paid subscription. Public libraries that I know only have shallow information. Internet is limited.



Good awareness. Most if not all the information is highly filtered. It is amazing how much of our foundations of what we understand are on faulty foundations.

Propaganda is ferce, however at least some information does fall through the cracks are is placed in areas where those that seek it can discover it.




How the animals, i.e penguins that I like, navigate the global and survive on eons in such dramatic changes of nature? It's mind boggling.
Maybe the emperor penguins know how to read star formation while floating on the sea in the sky. Using magnetic navigation will lead them Africa or other region not antarctic.



It sure is a mysterious world that we live in.
If you think about it, we only live less than 100 years on average.
Our typical history we are taught only goes back a short time.

The planet has been around for billions of years.
We are not equipped for the challenge of understanding too much.
Plus those that feed us the propaganda only help to confuse us even more.
Life appears to be a paradox



There is shift of the rotational axis of Earth. There is crust shift of Earth. All these things are interconnected.

I'm sure they know something's going on big time. Would they disclose it? Who knows. I gonna observe stars often in the night.

I suggest you read Immanuel Velikovsky POLE SHIFT Collection of reading material.

if you wish to send me a private message with your email addy I can email you some of his ebooks.

[Vitalux]

On average, the Earth Plates move somewhere Between 2-7 centimeters per year. The 'wobble' of our earth offsets the true calender by,, who knows how much. As the sun rises and sets over countless ions of time,,, I think it is safe to say that 8 centimeters is absolutely negligible. Earth changes are cyclical.

We are told a lot of things by the media and various scientific institutions.
Do you believe that it has ever happened historically that those same media and scientific institutions have ever lied to the populations knowingly?

For example, Many mainstream scientific institution teach that carbon gas ia the main causes of global warming. However there is an overwhelming number of scientist that call that teaching a load of hogwash with no scientific evidence to even support it in the first place.
However we understand that Science, in the hands of corporations can be used as a religion.


The end point is we can not be too sure about anything we are being told about our planet....including the 8 centimeters that is absolutely negligible.

The fact that the sun is rising two days early in Greenland should indicate the planet has a different position relative to our Sun.

[Carmody]

On average, the Earth Plates move somewhere Between 2-7 centimeters per year. The 'wobble' of our earth offsets the true calender by,, who knows how much. As the sun rises and sets over countless ions of time,,, I think it is safe to say that 8 centimeters is absolutely negligible. Earth changes are cyclical.

We are told a lot of things by the media and various scientific institutions.
Do you believe that it has ever happened historically that those same media and scientific institutions have ever lied to the populations knowingly?

For example, Many mainstream scientific institution teach that carbon gas ia the main causes of global warming. However there is an overwhelming number of scientist that call that teaching a load of hogwash with no scientific evidence to even support it in the first place.
However we understand that Science, in the hands of corporations can be used as a religion.

The end point is we can not be too sure about anything we are being told about our planet....including the 8 centimeters that is absolutely negligible.

The fact that the sun is rising two days early in Greenland should indicate the planet has a different position relative to our Sun.

The problem with that analysis or the situation in general.... is that this group, for example, would not fail to note any changes in the sky:

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?Cat=

[spiritguide]

I prefer to look at the earth as a gyroscope....balanced on counter rotation. The magnetic field is a product of this counter rotation. IMHO
If you really want to get into the magnetic field study research MAD (magnetic anomoly display) gear used to track submarines in the 60"s by the U.S. Navy.
A lot of book knowledge has some valid science in it but the whole picture is never shown. Even some of our natural sciences are subject to filtering before being dispersed to the educational community. This thread has proved a point IMHO that everybody has a perception but nobody really knows. The earth will do what it needs to do to exist.

Hope my opinion doesn't bore you! ;)

[Vitalux]

The problem with that analysis or the situation in general.... is that this group, for example, would not fail to note any changes in the sky:

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?Cat=

Not that I am trying to insult anyone's intelligence but I doubt very much if a group like that would report much about this anomaly in the beginning. Even if noted I doubt if mainstream media would pick it up and echo it.
Until then, anyone finding odd anomalies and mentioning them would only be ridiculed and heckled.

History always repeats itself.

Plus very few amateur astronomers would really possess the understanding to recognize it in the first place on a small scale. I've been studying astronomy for 30 years and still struggle to understand that complex movements between the position of the stars relative to the Earth.

Plus compound that with most humans are so unaware and stumbling with comprehension that even with airplanes spraying huge tracks of the skies with chemtrails they still fail to recognize it or admit that it is real. Chem trailing has been going on for over 12 years worldwide!
http://www.willthomas.net/images/Chemtrail_Facts_Paterns.jpg

Yes (shaking my head in bewilderment)

Therefore I disagree with you. Most would be too stupid to recognize the earth tilting.
Simply because they would NOT WANT TO SEE IT.

[Vitalux]

Something I just wanted to add to this thread to help explain my position.

Over the years I have come to be more questionable concerning our real history of geological events with regards to the history we are taught both in school and that by the mass media, as well as the scientific community at large.

For example;

If I went around advocating that there was an invisible, jealous, often impulsive, irrational man named GOD that lived in the clouds and he created the whole universe in 7 days which follows the simple ideology of Christianity folks would think I was completely normal and many would agree with my perception of reality.

If I was a 5 year old child sitting in school, and I believed that a tooth fair existed, Santa Clause as well as the Easter Bunny, my fellow peers would think me completely normal and tend to agree with my reality.

If I believed from both main-stream media as well as our respective science that two airplanes could fly into three buildings in New York City on September 11th and completely topple and complete demolish THREE buildings I would be respected by my fellow peers and most would tend to agree with my reality.


If I believed that NASA landed a man on the moon back in 1969 and agreed with the media and respected science that it was done, my fellow peers would think me completely normal and tend to agree with my reality.


However .....many here would agree that often ....what we are TOLD by the Mass Media, and main stream science is often false and downright incorrect. I could go on with example after example but my point is to try and convince others that we live in a world in which we are purposefully being feed an ocean of propaganda of false information.

Most of the information that I try and research on this topic in the media tends to be completely contradictory from the statements that I have made. I can fully appreciate that others doing research would encounter the same degree of disbelief as other members have as well.

The only thing that I can say with some degree of certainty is that the history that we are being fed, is missing a great deal of the facts as well as a great deal of our actual history.

Anyone wishing to gain some insight into the historical past, I strongly urge you to take me up on my offer to read any books from the author Immanuel Velikovsky.

I very well might be completely insane and have no grasp on reality, however, the version of reality I view from the standpoint of the media, and the world around me is equally insane.


http://griid.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/war-is-peace-i.jpg

Thank you all for reading this and giving it your consideration.

[Logan]

Responding to the original poster (THANK YOU FOR THIS THREAD)

My family in Iceland has noticed very distinct climate changes over the past 10-20 years. Heck I was there in 1992 and again in 97 and they were experiencing 65 degree days (Farenheit) which is virtually unheard of there. Iceland isn't a tundra/blizzard 365 days a year but the summer typically doesn't get that warm.

Usually 50 degrees is the norm for summertime. My uncle is in town now from Reykjavik and I was asking him about this without letting on too much about my interest in the pole shift. I just wanted objective information from him on what they're experiencing there.

I had seen that YouTube by NancyRedStar about natives up north noticing climatic changes, and found it very telling.

One last note. In 1997 when I flew over Greenland it was ICE and SNOW. Ok? Rivers of ice, glaciers, the whole 9 yards. My dad flew over last summer and said Greenland is Brownland. He's not one to exagerrate, he's been flying over to Iceland since the 60's and he says it's completely barren and brown now when you see Greenland.

I suppose that's all I have to add to the discussion right now but thank you for this post and I will be doing my own research on this as time allows.

[Vitalux]

Thank you Logan

Logan if you ever wish to read any ebooks by Immanuel Velikovsky please send me a message with an email address and I will email you back any ebooks that I have of Immanuel Velikovsky.

I will do this for any avolon member that asks.

http://www.laatlantida.net/XV3.jpeg

[Sidney]

Has anyone actualy take then the time to go out and look at the stars, and draw what you see?


Last night i came to the realisation that something isnt "right"




I have one group of stars that moves say south over the period of the night (say 7pm its directly above me, then it slowly moves south out of view by 2-3am) yet another set of stars (nowhere near as bright, but still visible) seem to move east over the same period of time.


Tried getting a photo of the sky but it cant capture the light of the stars. Was going to make it a project on my next set of days off to take a picture of the area im looking (during the day) and draw an outline of the buildings to use them as a view reference. Then with a pen draw in where the stars are, and the time. Once an hour, to see whats actualy going on.


Has anyone else noticed their stars moving funny - and would it have anything to do with earth moving axis?


I am an avid skywatcher/stargazer. And I have absolutely noticed a difference, especially over this past summer. Normally, what I am used to in past years is the stars moving east to west, just like the sun. (but you have to remember its the earth that is moving not the stars. (are the stars moving too?)

Anyway, this summer, there is a definite change because there seemed to be a "flow" of Northeast to southwest movement, rather than the direct east to west, and it is a very visible difference. This to me is a PHYSICAL shift. If it was purely magnetic, it would not look any different.

[kersley]

if it wasn't a physical pole shift, then how could the sun be rising too far north ? the magnetic poles affect the physical poles. otherwise the sun should rise in the exact same location.

My thoughts exactly.... How can this be?

[Logan]

It's funny I was just texting to my father about this stuff after posting in the thread and he might apply for membership here at Avalon.

[dddanieljjjamesss]

Actually I feel as though this transition is going to be quite graceful.

[Arrowwind]

-------

You're confusing a magnetic pole shift with a physical pole shift.

With a magnetic pole shift -- currently in process, and this is well-known and well-understood -- there's no physical movement.


I don't think anyone is confusing anything with anything on this thread. A magnetic pole shift if quite different from an axis shift. It would not cause the sun to rise two days early in the north and we are quite aware of the difference. Most of the videos address a shift in the axis, a change in the position of the sun and stars, if indeed these news reporters have their story straight.

[<8>]

Hi Gary...

I found this to be a good read..

The Magnetic North Pole

During the sixteenth century, mariners believed that somewhere in the North was a magnetic mountain that was the source of attraction for their compasses. Sir William Gilbert, physician to Queen Elizabeth I, suggested that the Earth itself was a giant magnet and that the force that directed the compass originated inside the Earth. Using a model of the Earth made from lodestone (a naturally occurring magnetic rock), he also showed that there should be two points on the Earth where a magnetized needle would stand vertically — the North and South Magnetic Poles.

Initially, people believed that the North Magnetic Pole coincided with the north geographic pole. Magnetic observations made by explorers in subsequent decades showed that this was not true, and by the early nineteenth century, the accumulated observations proved that the magnetic pole must be somewhere in Arctic Canada.

In 1831, at Cape Adelaide on the west coast of Boothia Peninsula, James Clark Ross measured a dip of 89 degrees 59 minutes. For all practical purposes, he had reached the North Magnetic Pole.

The next attempt to reach the North Magnetic Pole was made some 70 years later by the Norwegian explorer Roald Amundsen. In 1903, he left Norway on his famous voyage through the Northwest Passage. His primary goal was to set up a temporary magnetic observatory in the Arctic and to relocate the North Magnetic Pole.

A pole position was next determined by Canadian government scientists shortly after World War II. Paul Serson and Jack Clark, of the Dominion Observatory, measured a dip of 89 degrees 56 minutes at Allen Lake on Prince of Wales Island. This, in conjunction with other observations made in the vicinity, showed that the pole had moved some 250 kilometers northwest since the time of Amundsen's observations.

Observations by Canadian government scientists in 1962, 1973, 1984, and most recently in 1994, showed that the general northwesterly movement of the pole is continuing, and that during this century it has moved on average 10 kilometers per year.

It is important to realize that when we talk about the location of the pole, we are referring to an average position. The pole wanders daily in a roughly elliptical path around this average position, and may frequently be as much as 80 kilometers away from this position when the Earth's magnetic field is disturbed.

We now know that the cause of the Earth's magnetic field is much more complex; we believe that it is produced by electrical currents that originate in the hot, liquid, outer core of the Earth. As a simple analogy, consider an electromagnet, in which we can produce a strong magnetic field by passing an electric current through a coil of wire.

The position of the North Magnetic Pole is strongly influenced by the natural conditions variation in its vicinity. For example, if the dip is 90 degrees at a given point this year, that point will be the North Magnetic Pole, by definition. However, because of secular variation, the dip at that point will change to 89 degrees 58 minutes in about two years, so it will no longer be the pole. However, at some nearby point, the dip will have increased to 90 degrees, and that point will have become the pole. In this manner, the pole slowly moves across the Arctic.

In April and May of 1994, Larry Newitt of the Geological Survey of Canada and Charles Barton of the Australian Geological Survey Organization conducted a survey to determine the average position of the North Magnetic Pole at that time. Working out of Resolute Bay, Northwest Territories, they established a temporary magnetic observatory on Lougheed Island, close to the predicted position of the pole. This allowed them to monitor the short-term fluctuations of the magnetic field that result in the daily motion of the pole.

In addition, the strength and direction of the magnetic field were measured at this site, and at seven additional sites in the region. From these observations, the point at which the average dip was 90 degrees could be determined.

They determined that the average position of the North Magnetic Pole in 1994 was located on the Noice Peninsula, southwest Ellef Ringnes Island, at 78.3 degrees North, 104.0 minutes West. The yearly motion of the pole has increased, and is now 15 kilometers per year.

The reasons that the pole generates so much interest have changed over the years. For Ross, the search for the pole was a byproduct of scientific nationalism. For Amundsen, it offered a good excuse to sail through the Northwest Passage. Today, we are interested in the pole as a tool for magnetic cartography.



Earth's magnetic field is disturbed

This really dont explain why its moving and why it seem to speed up.
I do have a wild theory myself that we as people on earh are indirect causing this by our own emotions we are sending out.
But thats just me...

Thanks....:)

[Muzz]

Hi folks

Found this


http://vimeo.com/11070292


Drysdale et al (2009) published a study in the prestigious journal Science this past August that argues the Late Pleistocene (approximately 141,000 years ago) glacial period came to an end because of changes to the obliquity, or tilt, of the earth.

Arguably, the most bizarre, fascinating and perhaps groundbreaking of all observations we've heard from Inuit is that they believe our world has tilted on its axis and this contributes to climate change. When Zacharias and I first heard this, we thought it was very strange, yet elders in all the communities we've worked in - Pangnirtung, Iqaluit, Resolute Bay and Igloolik - all believe this phenomenon to be true.
link (http://vimeo.com/11070292)

[Herbert]

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_tilt
The Earth's axial tilt varies between 22.1° and 24.5°, with a 41,000 year period, and at present, the tilt is decreasing. In addition to this steady decrease there are much smaller short term (18.6 years) variations, known as nutation, mainly due to the changing plane of the moon's orbit. This can shift the Earth's axial tilt by plus or minus 0.005 degree.
Muzz you mentioned the Inuit believing the Earth was tilting on its axis. Could this be construed as it is straitening on its axis? I'm guessing the change in where the sun rises is a gradual straitening from the 22 degrees tilt, which is what Earth is meant to do in this time period, according to Mayan Calendar, isn't it?

There's no science I'm aware of to explain this speculation but if the mayan calendar ends and it is based on the moon then would that not mean the moon must go? I don't feel a flip end to end is coming but I do feel a straightening which is basically Earth finding centre and maybe speculatively, the moon has to go for that to happen. No idea how that would come about but maybe our failed sun has something to do with it. Interesting times - loving it.

[vibrations]

More than ten years ago people from the other planets told us (to me and my friends) that the earth is adopting a new kind of movement which produces wobbling which is less noticeable in the north pole and more in the Antarctica region because there is supposedly an anomaly in a melted core of the earth, the iron liquid core moved slightly to the south and accumulating out of center so the change of the mass structure produced this additional movement which if can cause a part of earth to separate and form another satellite. Imagine the consequences, I can't. This an lot more, so for me an axis shift is nothing new and I am aware of the gradual changes of the last decades. And just as a comment, this is not a channeled info, nor was read from the death goat guts, it came out through eye to eye conversations.

[DeDukshyn]

More than ten years ago people from the other planets told us (to me and my friends) that the earth is adopting a new kind of movement which produces wobbling which is less noticeable in the north pole and more in the Antarctica region because there is supposedly an anomaly in a melted core of the earth, the iron liquid core moved slightly to the south and accumulating out of center so the change of the mass structure produced this additional movement which if can cause a part of earth to separate and form another satellite. Imagine the consequences, I can't. This an lot more, so for me an axis shift is nothing new and I am aware of the gradual changes of the last decades. And just as a comment, this is not a channeled info, nor was read from the death goat guts, it came out through eye to eye conversations.

Marduk and Tiamat? Sounds worthy of considerations ..... Ancient Babalonian texts have been translated in such a way as to describe a similar event as to what you are saying. The great battle between Marduk and Tiamat as translated by Robert M Alford came to mind after reading your post. Just a thought ;)

[Ernie Nemeth]

Hi Vibrations,
I'm intrigued. Can you elaborate on your eye to eye contact with these beings?
Would like to know more.

[161803398]

hoHuxpa4h48

[Karma Ninja]

[...]
For example, Hancock cites “huge numbers of warm-blooded, temperate adapted mammal species were instantly frozen, and then their bodies preserved in the permafrost [...] the bulk of the destruction seems to have taken place during the eleventh millennium BC“ (Hancock, 1995, p. 479). The assumption is, if temperate climate regions were suddenly thrust into polar conditions, large numbers of animals, unable to adapt and/or flee, would perish.
[...]


There is one very BIG problem with these "Flash Frozen" mastodonts: even if a crustal slip/shift was instantaneous, the vegetation inside the stomachs of these mastodonts wouldn't have been flash frozen but in various states of decay. Something else happened then and I don't what (the equivalent of being drown in liquid nitrogen) but it definitely was significant!

Hmmm ... I wonder how long it takes to freeze a mastodon at x temperature ... I wish I had a mastodon freezing chart ;-) That might give us a clue ...

Indeed!

Closest is being thrown in a pool of liquid nitrogen, because that's a huge, warm mass to freeze instantly for stomach vegetation to be preserved.

I think (to be verified) that it's in the order of less than 60 seconds for vegetables....

You could turn this into a fun thread to speculate!

What if a stellar body, massive enough to disrupt our atmosphere, came flying by the earth and dragged our planet into 'outer space'. An event like this could pull 'space' into our atmosphere temporarily or drag us into 'space' temporarily until the planet settled and our atmosphere was reformed. If I recall the temperature of space is close to absolute zero which is the point at which molecules cease to move any longer. This could create the flash freezing scenario but the other devastation such an event would cause, might not be accounted for..or is it? It seemed like a reasonable thought...

I know this is off topic to the original thread but such an event could even cause a physical shift of the earths poles... Ooooh! This is juicy! ;0)

All kidding aside, I felt I would add my theory...

[Vitalux]

You could turn this into a fun thread to speculate!

What if a stellar body, massive enough to disrupt our atmosphere, came flying by the earth and dragged our planet into 'outer space'. An event like this could pull 'space' into our atmosphere temporarily or drag us into 'space' temporarily until the planet settled and our atmosphere was reformed. If I recall the temperature of space is close to absolute zero which is the point at which molecules cease to move any longer. This could create the flash freezing scenario but the other devastation such an event would cause, might not be accounted for..or is it? It seemed like a reasonable thought...

I know this is off topic to the original thread but such an event could even cause a physical shift of the earths poles... Ooooh! This is juicy! ;0)

All kidding aside, I felt I would add my theory...


History has shown that this is just the case that has happened in the past.

Historians such as Immanuel Velikovsky wrote several books based on historical and physical geological evidence to support that at fairly regular cycles cosmic upheavals do occur with our planet.

http://www.ufodigest.com/images/velikovsky.jpg

With no doubt whatsoever, these past cosmic upheavals do cause mass extinctions on a planetary scale and cause such devastation that humanity is almost wiped out of existence.

Some of these cycles of destruction are worse than others.
The last cycle was about 1500 years BCE ( 3600 years ago). That statement you just read is a fact.
http://www.unmuseum.org/velcom.jpg

One thing apparent in the historical records is that the precursor to our planet encountering a shifting of the poles (flipping of our planet) is that some celestial body from outside our solar system appears to enter into our neighborhood and cause at times cause catastrophic upheaval of our own planet or neighboring planets.

Studying the recent behavior of global governments tends to suggest that preparations are being done in expectation of a very large scale mass disaster.

- USA FEMA camps, millions of coffins being stored,
- underground bunkers
- under ground seed banks in arctic regions
- odd agreements between nations allowing policing on domestic soils by foreign armies.

The list goes on and on.....how long before most can smell the coffee?

Now we are seeing at least some evidence that our magnetic poles are on the move at a historically alarming rate...
Now we are seeing at least some degree of evidence to support that are Planet is starting to shift from it's axis and stars are moving out of alignment.

Yes

Time to start waking up and figuring out some survival plans if indeed history is due to repeat itself.

Here is another documentary that might be related.
At least make some minimal attempt to prepare.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crU9sM5QTUk&feature=related

I truly am glad that I found this group.
Myself I have no desire to survive this event, if it is to occur however, I just wanted to express my love for you all and I am sure we shall link up on the other side...which I call ..back home.

[Logan]

Deep discussions going on in this thread, and I'm humbled and privledged to be a part of it or at least politely view from the outside.

vibrations I am highly interested in anything else you have to share on your experiences. I have seen a UFO once as a child, I'd like to post the story about that in UFOlogy section. I've kept that memory crystal clear since it happened.

[Vitalux]

Deep discussions going on in this thread, and I'm humbled and privileged to be a part of it or at least politely view from the outside.

vibrations I am highly interested in anything else you have to share on your experiences. I have seen a UFO once as a child, I'd like to post the story about that in UFOlogy section. I've kept that memory crystal clear since it happened.



Thanks
Actually the most wonderful part about people studying this thread, is that there are a lot of keys in this thread to bring about "understanding" which in part can help others reach an epiphany about Nibiru or whatever it is that cycles around every 3600 years or so and knocks this planet back into the dark ages.

1/12 Global Warming - What the Government isn't telling you 1/12
This is a good series to watch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpbiuKTtMZo

[MorningSong]

Compliments to all! Interesting discussion here on this thread. Definately something to know about and to verify.

Here's a graph of the North Pole wobble..

http://hpiers.obspm.fr/eop-pc/images/pole.png

http://hpiers.obspm.fr/eop-pc/images/pole.png

[araucaria]

Compliments to all! Interesting discussion here on this thread. Definately something to know about and to verify.

Here's a graph of the North Pole wobble..

http://hpiers.obspm.fr/eop-pc/images/pole.png

http://hpiers.obspm.fr/eop-pc/images/pole.png

Just on the basis of reading this graph and nothing else, this wobble seems to be an annual effect - and if anything the earth is steadier than last year. Each of this year's date points are inside of where they were 12 months earlier.

[Hervé]

Getting even steadier with this observed data since 2003 to Sept. 1st, 2011. Extrapolated (next 180 days) positions in red:


https://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p9KE6vRFOhiFRe9v9Joy2ts9NxqqGyPT80uUvasm3vWJLuqPb9LPiSPTnIvHauED8cZZSRXcCTVxya1w-PRBqUA/Image-2012-3-20-11h54mn13.jpg?psid=1

[Hervé]

Worth noticing is that these recent wobbles are less than one second of arc in amplitude and nowhere in these plots of observed data from VLBI (Very Long Baseline Interferometry, using distant quasars as references) can jolts (i.e. EQ) be detected.

The position of the rotation axis can be detected to +/- 0.2 milliarcsecond by the VLBI on a daily basis.

[araucaria]

You could turn this into a fun thread to speculate!

What if a stellar body, massive enough to disrupt our atmosphere, came flying by the earth and dragged our planet into 'outer space'. An event like this could pull 'space' into our atmosphere temporarily or drag us into 'space' temporarily until the planet settled and our atmosphere was reformed. If I recall the temperature of space is close to absolute zero which is the point at which molecules cease to move any longer. This could create the flash freezing scenario but the other devastation such an event would cause, might not be accounted for..or is it? It seemed like a reasonable thought...

I know this is off topic to the original thread but such an event could even cause a physical shift of the earths poles... Ooooh! This is juicy! ;0)

All kidding aside, I felt I would add my theory...


History has shown that this is just the case that has happened in the past.

Historians such as Immanuel Velikovsky wrote several books based on historical and physical geological evidence to support that at fairly regular cycles cosmic upheavals do occur with our planet.

http://www.ufodigest.com/images/velikovsky.jpg

With no doubt whatsoever, these past cosmic upheavals do cause mass extinctions on a planetary scale and cause such devastation that humanity is almost wiped out of existence.

Some of these cycles of destruction are worse than others.
The last cycle was about 1500 years BCE ( 3600 years ago). That statement you just read is a fact.
http://www.unmuseum.org/velcom.jpg

One thing apparent in the historical records is that the precursor to our planet encountering a shifting of the poles (flipping of our planet) is that some celestial body from outside our solar system appears to enter into our neighborhood and cause at times cause catastrophic upheaval of our own planet or neighboring planets.

Studying the recent behavior of global governments tends to suggest that preparations are being done in expectation of a very large scale mass disaster.

- USA FEMA camps, millions of coffins being stored,
- underground bunkers
- under ground seed banks in arctic regions
- odd agreements between nations allowing policing on domestic soils by foreign armies.

The list goes on and on.....how long before most can smell the coffee?

Now we are seeing at least some evidence that our magnetic poles are on the move at a historically alarming rate...
Now we are seeing at least some degree of evidence to support that are Planet is starting to shift from it's axis and stars are moving out of alignment.

Yes

Time to start waking up and figuring out some survival plans if indeed history is due to repeat itself.

Here is another documentary that might be related.
At least make some minimal attempt to prepare.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crU9sM5QTUk&feature=related

I truly am glad that I found this group.
Myself I have no desire to survive this event, if it is to occur however, I just wanted to express my love for you all and I am sure we shall link up on the other side...which I call ..back home.

I've heard this video before. As fara as I can see, he says nothing that mightn't just be signs of well-laid plans eveolving over decades as opposed to some real event.

Just one anomaly. He is talking about the remnants of nuclear bombs in the Arabian peninsula and elsewhere. What on earth does this have to do with planet X, I'd like to know (apart from featuring in Sitchin's work)??

[MorningSong]

Noseying around at the link I posted earlier, I found the following reports. I do not yet comprehend the significance of the terminology to expound on their analysis but I will look into it, as I invite all others to as well:


December 2004 : According to theoretical modeling of Dahlen (1973) and Harvard seismic moment tensor solution, the rotation axis would have undergo 0.5-1 milliarcsecond shift towards Pacific in a few minutes because of the Sumatra Earthquake (computation done by Ch. Bizouard). Because of the weak time resolution of Earth orientation parameters, it cannot be distinguished easily from other geophysical influence, which cause pole motion with the rate 1-3 mas/day. At the date of 1/1/2005 GPS determination of the polar motion did not allow us to prove any Earthquake effect. Wait and see.

February 2005 :
Daniel Gambis comments on Sumatra Earthquake
(http://www.obspm.fr/actual/nouvelle/feb05/sumatra.en.shtml)


The official ILRS combined EOP solution (avaible on our WEB/FTP site) derived by ASI from 5 individual solutions (ASI, DGFI, GFZ, JCET and NSGF) is replacing the individual SLR solutions in the EOP-PC analyses. According to this series, there is a noticable jump in y-component of the polar motion for the day of the Sumatra Earthquake.


March 2010 : The Chile Earthquake of February 27th, 2010 of magnitude 8.8 has caused no DETECTABLE effect on the rotation pole and rotation rate. Independently of Earthquake, rotation pole moves of some mm up to several cm per day because of continuous atmospheric, oceanic and hydrologic mass transport. Till now the effect of Earthquake remains a theoretical matter. According to the seismic models, the recent Chile event will have the effect of disturbing the rotation pole by 8 cm in some months, small amount in comparison with the path a few meters it will achieve during this period. By handling atmospheric, oceanic and hydrologic data, this path will be modelled with a mean error of 50 cm, so that the tiny seismic effect will probably remain undiscernible. The Chile earthquake, would also have decrease the length of day, as high as 2 microseconds, that is to say below the current error on this quantity (10 microseconds), and much lower than the daily variation sometimes coming to 50 microseconds, and mainly caused by winds.

Alone a mega-seism, such that of Chile in 1960, could cause a visible effect with the modern geodetic techniques.

March 11, 2011 (updated on March 16): Our first estimates of the megaquake of Honshu, Nothern Japan Coast , at 5:46 UT on polar motion. According to the preliminary US Geological Survey and Harvard University seismic parameters used with Dahlen's dislocation model (1973), the principal axis of inertia with highest moment of inertia (also called figure axis, closed to symetry axis) was displaced by about 15 cm at the earth surface in the direction 135° East (value confirmed by R. Gross, JPL, with another model). The effect is larger than for Chili (February 2010) and Sumatra (Dec. 2004) earthquakes (see below corresponding news). This could be observed as a step in the so-called excitation function, deduced from the determination of pole coordinates by space geodesy. But such a step could be hardly discernible from common hydro-meteorological processes. The oceanic angular momentum still lacking, only next months will tell us wether something is detectable.

http://hpiers.obspm.fr/eop-pc/news/psi_2D_web.png

http://hpiers.obspm.fr/eop-pc/news/pole_2D_web.png

C. Bizouard, S. Lambert, D. Gambis, J. Y. Richard, O. Becker. Service International de la Rotation de la Terre & Centre d'Analyse IVS

http://hpiers.obspm.fr/eop-pc/index.php?index=news

[Hervé]

Noseying around ...
[...]
http://hpiers.obspm.fr/eop-pc/index.php?index=news

Morningsong, a big THANK YOU for your noseying around and uncovering this site!

Here is from another author from the same site that may explain it a bit better:




Earthquake of Sumatra: did the axis of the Earth tremble?

http://www.obspm.fr/images/new2-logo_sm.gif

The recent earthquake of magnitude 9.3 which took place on December 26, 2004 close to Sumatra is the second stronger in the world since 1900 and is even stronger than the one which occurred in Alaska in 1964 (mag 9.2). Could it have a perceptible effect in the rotation of the Earth?
The expert researchers in Paris Observatory, pertaining to IERS (International Earth Rotation Service) (http://hpiers.obspm.fr/eop-pc) show that the effect is not discernible.
Theoretical bases: Relations between seismicity and variations in the rotation of the Earth

A seismic event, apart from the effect of jolt related to the earthquake involves a redistribution of mass in the earth. That modifies the earth tensor of inertia which theoretically can affect the movement of the axis of rotation of the earth compared to the crust called the "movement of the pole" or "polhodie". There can also be a weak effect in the earth rotation speed according to the conservation of angular momentum. Theoretical calculations show that the greatest earthquakes can involve co-seismic variations of a few microseconds of time in the duration of the day and of 0.1 mas to 1 mas (a few millimetres to a few centimetres) in the movement of the pole (Smylie and Manshina, 1971; Chao and Gross, 1987; Varga, 1987). However these amplitudes are completely masked by those associated with transport of atmospheric and oceanic masses, which are one or two orders of magnitude higher. According to recent studies on the diffusion of post-seismic constraints (Soldati and Spada 1999), in spite of the weak signal due to seisms, it can however exist a phenomenon of amplification due to the viscosity of the asthenosphere, which could involve visible effects in Earth rotation. http://www.obspm.fr/actual/nouvelle/feb05/polhodie.gif (http://www.obspm.fr/actual/nouvelle/feb05/polhodie.gif)
Figure 1 : The axis of rotation of the earth is not fixed compared to the earth's crust. Projected on a plane tangent to the pole, it describes "the movement of the pole" or "Polhodie" (here represented by the red dotted curve) contained in a square of 20 meters size. The principal components of the motion are a term of period 432 days, the term of Chandler ( see here a schematic representation of the Chandler oscillation (http://www.obspm.fr/actual/nouvelle/feb05/chandler.jpg)) attributed to a free mode of the earth as well as a term of 1 year period due to transport of atmospheric masses. A possible jump due to the earthquake of last 26 December (instant inside of the pink circle) is currently not separable from atmospheric signals.
Click on the image to enlarge it

Observations: What can be seen in the observations of IERS?

There exist several data bases concerning the major earthquakes in particular the catalogue of U.S. Geological Survey. From several parameters (magnitude, localization, seismic moment..) characterizing the event one can from a model make an estimate of the effect of an event in the variations of the rotation of the earth. According to various calculations made independently from these parameters by R. Gross (JPL), B Chao (NASA) and by C Bizouard (Paris Observatory), the effect in the movement of the pole should be of a few centimetres in the polhodie and of a few microseconds of time in the duration of the day, which is not very likely to be detected seen the current precision of the observations. The Earth rotation Center of the International Earth Rotation Service (IERS) (http://www.iers.org/iers/about/) at the Observatory of Paris has in particular the role of follow-up in quasi-real time of the variations of the earth motion by using the observations resulting from various space techniques like the GPS, interferometry on extragalactic radio sources as well as laser telemetry on satellites and the Moon. The fine analyses of the variations observed in the "polhodie" (see figure 1) did not show a discernible effect.
References
Chao B.F.and Gross R.S., 1987: Changes in the Earth.s rotation and low degree gravitational field induced by earthquakes. Geophys J. Roy.Astron. Soc., 91, 569-596.
Smylie D.E. and Manshina L., 1971: The elasticity theory of dislocation in real Earth models and changes in the rotation of the Earth, Geophys. J. Roy. Astron. Soc., 23, 329-354.
Soldati G. and Spada G., 1999: Large earthquakes and Earth rotation: the role of mantle relaxation. Geophys. Res. Lett., 26 , 911-914.
Varga P., 1987: Influence of the elastic stress accumulation on the Earth.s polar position. Proc. of the int. Symp. .Figure and dynamics of the Earth, Moon and Planets., Prague, 257-269


From reading the French versions, it comes out that 5 MAS (MilliArcSecond, ) are equivalent to 15 cm at Earth's surface. Hence 1 MAS (that's 0.001'') is 3 cm deviation at the poles Earth's surface.

[Snowbird]

[...]

Geophysicist Kenneth Hudnut, who works for the U.S. Geological Survey, told CNN that the quake moved part of Japan's land mass by nearly 2.5 meters.

Experts say that the huge shake, caused by a shift in the tectonic plates deep underwater, also threw the earth off its axis point by at least 8 centimeters[/I].[/CENTER]



That's the trouble with sensationalistic news (CNN that got it from Reuters... big red flag right there) when trying to make something "real." The magnitude of the EQ kept increasing by the hour in an attempt to explain the size of the tsunami when the quake itself caused less physical damages than the Kobe EQ (other threads on this forum).

Moreover, if even that were true, that the axis was thrown off by 8 cm, did they mention if it came back to position? (try with a top or a gyroscope)

I'm going to butt into this e-conversation at this point. I have more to post, but I will start off with this little tidbit. We have to balance our scientific perceptions with viewpoints that are less than scientific. I will offer one such example, which I realize is solitary in nature.

Few people are aware that Charles Richter retired in 1970 and shortly thereafter, the Richter scale was reduced by one full point. This is a huge change in the Richter scale as it allows for another level which is ten times more powerful than the previous level of ten. Is it possible the USGS or U.S. Government believed the previous upper limit to the Richter scale could possibly be exceeded after the 1970’s? Or is it possible they didn’t want to explain why so many future earthquakes would be registering in the 8.0+ and 9.0+ ranges? Is it possible the U.S. government and scientists were seeing a pattern, know something was coming, or just taking precaution?

http://www.timeline2012.net/prepare/possible-earth-events/shift-in-crust

[Hervé]

[...]

In simple terms from: http://geology.about.com/cs/quakemags/a/aa060798.htm



Earthquake Magnitudes
Measuring the Big One

By Andrew Alden (http://geology.about.com/bio/Andrew-Alden-453.htm), About.com Guide




See More About:

techniques (http://geology.about.com/lr/techniques/14755/1/)
magnitude scales (http://geology.about.com/lr/magnitude_scales/14755/2/)
earthquakes (http://geology.about.com/lr/earthquakes/14755/3/)
http://0.tqn.com/d/geology/1/G/d/7/mag_incrementrule.gifMore Images (http://javascript<b></b>:void(0)) (2)

These days, an earthquake happens and right away it is on the news, including its magnitude. Instant earthquake magnitudes seem as routine an achievement as reporting the temperature, but they're the fruit of generations of scientific work.

Why Earthquakes Are Hard to Measure
Earthquakes are very hard to measure on a standard scale of size. The problem is like finding one number for the quality of a baseball pitcher. You can start with the pitcher's win-loss record, but there are more things to consider: earned-run average, strikeouts and walks, career longevity and so on. Baseball statisticians tinker with indexes that weigh these factors (for more, visit the About Baseball Guide (http://baseball.about.com/)).

Earthquakes are easily as complicated as pitchers. They are fast or slow. Some are gentle, others are violent. They're even right-handed or left-handed. They are oriented different ways—horizontal, vertical, or in between (see Faults in a Nutshell (http://geology.about.com/library/bl/blnutshell_fault-type.htm)). They occur in different geologic settings, deep within continents or out in the ocean. Yet somehow we want a single meaningful number for ranking the world's earthquakes. The goal has always been to figure out the total amount of energy a quake releases, because that tells us profound things about the dynamics of the Earth's interior.

Richter's First Scale
The pioneering seismologist Charles Richter started in the 1930s by simplifying everything he could think of. He chose one standard instrument, a Wood-Anderson seismograph, used only nearby earthquakes in Southern California, and took only one piece of data—the distance A in millimeters that the seismograph needle moved. He worked up a simple adjustment factor B to allow for near versus distant quakes, and that was the first Richter scale of local magnitude ML:
ML = log A + B

A graphical version of his scale is reproduced (http://archives.caltech.edu/pictures/1.46.1-17.jpg) on the Caltech archives site.
You'll notice that ML really measures the size of earthquake waves, not an earthquake's total energy, but it was a start. This scale worked fairly well as far as it went, which was for small and moderate earthquakes in Southern California. Over the next 20 years Richter and many other workers extended the scale to newer seismometers, different regions, and different kinds of seismic waves.

Later "Richter Scales"
Soon enough Richter's original scale was abandoned, but the public and the press still use the phrase "Richter magnitude." Seismologists used to mind, but not any more.
Today seismic events may be measured based on body waves or surface waves (these are explained in Earthquakes in a Nutshell (http://geology.about.com/od/earthquakes/a/aa_quakenuts.htm)). The formulas differ but they yield the same numbers for moderate earthquakes.

Body-wave magnitude is
mb = log(A/T) + Q(D,h)
where A is the ground motion (in microns), T is the wave's period (in seconds), and Q(D,h) is a correction factor that depends on distance to the quake's epicenter D (in degrees) and focal depth h (in kilometers).

Surface-wave magnitude is
Ms = log(A/T) + 1.66 logD + 3.30
mb uses relatively short seismic waves with a 1-second period, so to it every quake source that is larger than a few wavelengths looks the same. That corresponds to a magnitude of about 6.5. Ms uses 20-second waves and can handle larger sources, but it too saturates around magnitude 8. That's OK for most purposes because magnitude-8 or great events happen only about once a year on average for the whole planet. But within their limits, these two scales are a reliable gauge of the actual energy that earthquakes release.

The biggest earthquake whose magnitude we know was in 1960, in the Pacific right off central Chile on May 22. Back then, it was said to be magnitude 8.5, but today we say it was 9.5. What happened in the meantime was that Tom Hanks and Hiroo Kanamori (http://www.gps.caltech.edu/people/kanamori/profile) came up with a better magnitude scale in 1979.

This moment magnitude, Mw, is not based on seismometer readings at all but on the total energy released in a quake, the seismic moment Mo (in dyne-centimeters):
Mw = 2/3 log(Mo) - 10.7

This scale therefore does not saturate. Moment magnitude can match anything the Earth can throw at us. The formula for Mw is such that below magnitude 8 it matches Ms and below magnitude 6 it matches mb, which is close enough to Richter's old ML. So keep calling it the Richter scale if you like—it's the scale Richter would have made if he could.

The U.S. Geological Survey's Henry Spall interviewed Charles Richter in 1980 about "his" scale. It makes lively reading. (http://earthquake.usgs.gov/learning/topics/people/int_richter.php)

PS: Earthquakes on Earth simply can't get bigger than around Mw = 9.5. A piece of rock can store up only so much strain energy before it ruptures, so the size of a quake depends strictly on how much rock—how many kilometers of fault length—can rupture at once. The Chile Trench, where the 1960 quake occurred, is the longest straight fault in the world. The only way to get more energy is with giant landslides or asteroid impacts (http://geology.about.com/library/weekly/aa092897.htm).

[Snowbird]

We are here on this Earth to experience and to learn. We did not come to this Earth at this time to simply experience 7 billion souls being crushed to death or thrown off the Earth and washed away into the abyss. There have been souls even recently who have unfortunately been in the wrong area in the wrong timeframe and have succumbed to this type of horrible tragedy. Some of these souls had advanced warning but were unable to leave. Some of these souls were caught unaware due to natural and unnatural forces. Some of these souls chose to remain for reasons unknown. There will be more of these tragedies as time progresses.

We are here for specific reasons one of which is to experience transformation or upliftment or ascension or cosmic evolution or the raising of vibrational frequency, which ever term you prefer. We are here to experience this on a personal soul level but also to help this Earth as it goes through this very same process.

The close to mass hysteria concerning the 2012 end-of-the-world, has a definite connection to historical global cataclysms from our pasts. We are not here to experience those again. We are here, partially, to become free from the fear(s). And in order to gain a broad perspective of what is currently occurring and what will be occurring into our future, we must be open to accepting viewpoints and data and logic from several different simultaneous sources. We can learn from the past and the present and the future, all at once if we are willing partners. History, science, ancient civilizations and off-planet civilizations all/each have an enormously important roll to play in this complicated drama. We learn from readings what has transpired in ancient times. We learn and collect data from scientific findings that add great bearing to current and former interpretations. We absolutely must learn from the ancient civilizations currently on Earth who know and understand their global regions more fully than anyone. And, we must also learn from off-planet civilizations who have been our undetected neighbors for many thousands of years and who are now here in mass numbers to help us to help ourselves through these transitions.

The information from one of these off-planet sources (there exist many many sources) stems from a human here on Earth who goes by the name of Tolec. Tolec is an Earthly representative for the Andromeda Council. Tolec's web site is www.andromedacouncil.com . Alfred Webre has done two audio interviews with Tolec, one of which is linked below. The first interview can be found at the Transcript link below.

The information that Tolec has shared with us is massive in implication. It is for the most part, good news, not bad. Yes, there will be some severe Earth balancing-related upsets. These upsets are due to a combination of effects from the enormous universal and galactic cycles that are coming to a close all during the same time frame. He states that the Andromeda Council has informed him that the crust of the Earth is shifting and will continue to SLOWLY and GENTLY shift until March of 2013. He states that this crustal rotation will be a 90 degree shift so that when completed, the East/West will become the new North/South. Looking at the face of a clock, this rotation will go from the 3 counter clockwise, to the 12. He states that the magnetic disturbances or agitating energies will be largely prevented by the advanced technologies from the Andromedan biospheres in space.

Something else very positive that he stated is that Nibiru (if it actually still exists) will not in any way shape or form present a problem. In fact, he states that Nibiru will never enter our Solar System. Instead, it will travel high above our Solar System on its merry way...along with its inhabitants. Elenin is ushering in Tekoma, the brown dwarf, which will become our second sun. Tekoma will park itself between Venus (closer to) and the Earth and Tekoma will bring with it a new planet, Nihohia which has a small moon and 3rd dimensional inhabitants within...who are extremely peaceful and are humans.

Yes, Tolec is alternative and so are many other off-planet sources. But then, so are we.




Andromeda Council Update on Elenin, brown dwarf, Nibiru, earth changes, 4D Earth

http://www.examiner.com/exopolitics-in-seattle/andromeda-council-update-on-elenin-brown-dwarf-nibiru-earth-changes-4d-earth

Transcript:

Andromeda Council Update on Elenin, brown dwarf, Nibiru, earth changes, 4D Earth

Alfred Lambremont Webre, Seattle Exopolitics Examiner
September 11, 2011

In his ExopoliticsTV interview, Tolec states that any earth changes during the period 2012-13 are apt to be triggered by galactic energy fields. The Andromeda Council “biosphere” large spacecraft, Tolec states, will be generating a “force field” to minimize Earth Changes during the 2012-13 period, as well as during the remainder of 2011.

In the FAQ, Tolec states,

15.) “What might be the primary cause of any possible Earth changes that are being openly discussed by so many Earth people; having to do with 2012 & beyond?

ANSWER: “Most of the possible Earth changes being discussed projected to happen from 2012 – throughout all of 2013 – would be caused by highly charged magnetic energies at the core of a black hole at the center of the galactic equatorial plane that Earth’s solar system is about to cross. This black hole, and the band of higher faster frequency energy in the galactic equatorial plane zone, both are projected to cause magnetic disturbances resulting in the literal increased & agitated vibration of planet Earth. This band of energy vibrates at a 4th dimensional frequency that Earth & its solar system is in the process of just now entering, and will vibrate at for the foreseeable future at least a few thousand years.

“Again, keep in mind, as the web site indicates, there are a number of Andromeda Council flagged biosphere’s which are projecting “force fields” around the planet Earth to minimize as much as possible the agitating energy of the black hole, and the heightened vibration of the 4th dimension. It remains to be seen how severe, or not, the agitation to planet Earth will be.

“But there will be change to the planet. In order for Earth to evolve it must adjust, and it must become balanced again. In order for Earth to become balanced, the shifting of the earth’s crust must happen to put the planet back into alignment.”

http://www.examiner.com/exopolitics-in-seattle/andromeda-council-update-on-elenin-brown-dwarf-nibiru-earth-changes-4d-earth


Shift in Earth's Crust

Even though Earth’s crust is quite thick, it’s also brittle. And..., once the Earth’s crust is torn, it has much more mobility. It generally takes a lot of force from underneath the crust in order to open up new fissures for lava to flow or to raise mountains more than a few inches or feet in any single event.


http://www.timeline2012.net/prepare/possible-earth-events/shift-in-crust


Pole Shift (geographic)

This is the theory that an internal or external force acts upon Earth to reposition the arctic poles anywhere from their current position by a few degree up to 180 degrees.

Ancient references and recent theories into geographic pole shifts indicate that the most likely cause for such events are the result of external cosmic forces acting on Earth. Some of the theories into these external cosmic forces include: the Sun, comets, PlanetX or Niburu, and more recently, passing of the galactic equator. It’s theoretically possible that any one of these cosmic forces could cause a geographic pole shift on Earth.

http://www.timeline2012.net/prepare/possible-earth-events/pole-shift-geographic

Pole Shift (magnetic)

Scientists have now concluded that Earth’s “magnet” poles do flip 180 degrees in what’s commonly called a “pole shift”.

http://www.timeline2012.net/prepare/possible-earth-events/pole-shift-magnetic

[scotusa]

Getting even steadier with this observed data since 2003 to Sept. 1st, 2011. Extrapolated (next 180 days) positions in red:

http://hpiers.obspm.fr/iers/eop/eopc04/img_PM.png

Aaaargh...Its the ever decreasing circle..This is going to be painful and we will disappear. OK its an old joke but...

[scotusa]

On average, the Earth Plates move somewhere Between 2-7 centimeters per year. The 'wobble' of our earth offsets the true calender by,, who knows how much. As the sun rises and sets over countless ions of time,,, I think it is safe to say that 8 centimeters is absolutely negligible. Earth changes are cyclical.

We are told a lot of things by the media and various scientific institutions.
Do you believe that it has ever happened historically that those same media and scientific institutions have ever lied to the populations knowingly?

For example, Many mainstream scientific institution teach that carbon gas ia the main causes of global warming. However there is an overwhelming number of scientist that call that teaching a load of hogwash with no scientific evidence to even support it in the first place.
However we understand that Science, in the hands of corporations can be used as a religion.


The end point is we can not be too sure about anything we are being told about our planet....including the 8 centimeters that is absolutely negligible.

The fact that the sun is rising two days early in Greenland should indicate the planet has a different position relative to our Sun.

So we all believe that our clocks (calendar) are unaffected by what is going on? Can anyone prove that now is actually at 9.15pm EDT Sept 25th 2011?

[Ki's]

Hate to disagree with you guys, but...I'm a tall ship sailor (just came off the Atlantic into Nova Scotia) and really...the night sky hasn't made any significant change. We have to rely on compass, stars and gps to find our way and we are managing to get to where we need to be. If things had shifted to any degree, our course would be off and hell, we'd probably have ended up in Omaha or something.
So far it's all good.

[RedeZra]

the solar system moves in a clockwork fashion so we can clock cyclical events that even span millenia

at least our ancestors seem to have had this know-how about recurring patterns as the earth precedes through space

why track time through thousands of years if there is not a serious reason for it


it is a scientific fact that the earth has had magnetic field reversals several times and this can be seen and measured especially well in magma rocks on the ocean floor



http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/dynamic/graphics/FigS6-1.gif

( please ignore the rock dating above spanning million of years as they can't date rock )



so we see the magnetic reversals recorded on the ocean floor but what does it take to switch the magnetic poles

if the earth must spin clockwise for magnetic north to become magnetic south

then what could possibly exert such a strong magnetic force making the earth slow down stop and then spin the other way

could it be a huge magnetic planet coming close to our earth every so often ?