Discussing Wade Frazier (with Wade himself?)

[Seikou-Kishi]

Wade, on your website at the page http://www.ahealedplanet.net/spirit.htm#tale you propose a story to explain the origin of us here boxed up inside our limitedness and say that a hypothetical being convinced people to surrender their free will in exchange for having all the hard decisions (and eventually all of the decisions full stop) made for them.

Earlier on that page (but before the #tale anchor) you said that later on along the spiritual road (but not so close to the source of creation, I don't think) deception becomes impossible because people know how to read each other.

This makes me wonder if it would be possible for what we might call 'tier one' creatures, that is, those freshly made by the source which know perfect love and perfect awareness, can even be deceived. It doesn't sound something that is possible for them.

To me, it seems more likely that these beings got together and decided that they were going to play a whole new game. It's probably a very simple game to them, something that will last moments from their point of view. They agreed to forego some, even most of their free will and awareness because they wanted to know what it was like. From their point of view, it's just an extension of playfulness, even if from our point of view it's all a bloody mess because we're so involved. Everything looks bigger to little people.

When I was doing philosophy at college, we learned about a theory of reality called (Berkeleyan) idealism, in which he said all things existed because they were sensed (his famous quote 'esse est percipi' — to be is to be perceived). He argued that all things existed because they were sensed by whatever it was that gave us a point of view. He couldn't even be sure his friend still existed when he wasn't looking at him — that sort of The Shining stuff.

A criticism of Berkeley (which he answered in a way I never thought satisfactory at the time) was surprises. If somebody could creep up on one and make one jump, how could that be explained? To be able to make somebody jump, a person must exist before that person has any awareness of them.

Berkeley argued that all things existed when Berkeley himself wasn't perceiving them because they were being perceived by God. Since God was everywhere, we could be assured of the permanence of things because God's continual perception of them made them remain as they were even without any human perception (this argument at the time was very feeble to my vehemently atheistic sensibilities at the time, but now I am hard pushed to think of anything better)

This brings me to what I think might be a good illustration of my point. Children are excitable and they love to be scared. They will sit and listen, rapt, as an adult tells them a scary story. They'll jump in a satisfying way (lol) at all the right parts, but most children won't tell you to stop. They love to be scared because they know that ultimately they are safe with their parents and family, and for a short while they like to suspend themselves in an exciting emotion.

To me, that is what is happening here. We're 'inside the story' so to speak, and so we're scared and anxious and angry and selfish and all the things that come with being part of the story, but when it's all over we'll shake it off and ask for another story.

I wondered what you thought of the idea. It seems hard to me that our highest selves were deceived — unless, of course, they wanted to be.

[Wade Frazier]

Hi Seikou-Kishi:

I just gave a brief reply on Ilie’s thread:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?29372-What-technologies-activities-or-concepts-will-be-made-obsolete-by-Free-Energy&p=322529&viewfull=1#post322529

The story that I tell is only a story, not the story:

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/spirit.htm#tale

I write some on my thread about a New Agey dude who gave me my own forum but then erased it after Mr. Skeptic visited. He took great umbrage at that tale, because he had his own tale that was different! He wanted his story to be the story. None of us sees the Big Picture of Creation. That is guaranteed. One of the greatest problems is thinking that our story is the story. The religions have battled over the precedence of their stories for all of history.

Yes, your story may be the “right” one, and to the idea that this Earth game was created out of some kind of boredom, or desire to play a new game (to feel “scared” through the limitation of bodies that feel pain and die), orchestrated by our higher selves to just see what it was like, my answer from down here is, “You screwed up! You may be having a good time, but come down here and try it out. Then the fun may wear thin. Whatever ‘reward’ that may await us on the other side of death is no help while we are here in this muck. There has to be a better way than this.”

The mystical material that I have the most respect for says that life on Earth is no easy place to be. Only the bravest beings are even here right now. I am more onboard with the idea that we got here through a “fall” of some kind. There is a great deal of mystical material that says that what is happening here was not how the Creator intended it to be. Physical reality could be seen as some kind of problem-solving place, as a way to trying to develop new ways of being, or as a way to regain abilities that were lost in a “fall” of some kind.

I took Philosophy 101 in college, and am familiar with the many philosophies that have been bandied about over the millennia. Right now I am reading Wilson’s Consilience, and boy, is materialism ever a dreary philosophy. The big problem with such philosophies is that their authors don’t think they are philosophies, but reality. White Science is so blind. I have seen philosophy described as the love of wisdom, and I’ll buy that.

With all the “seeing through the glass darkly” limitations of being an Earthbound human, the one thing that I do know is that the only way out of this mess, in a permanent way, is through love. And I think that virtually all mystical material that I have ever encountered agrees on that point.

I am not sure if that answers your question, and I am not sure that I’ll post much more here on that subject, but if you start a thread that you want me to participate in, just let me know. I have had people start threads before, or they started them in reaction to my work. They don’t seem to last long, but they can pursue important issues.

Best,

Wade

[araucaria]

Wade, on your website at the page http://www.ahealedplanet.net/spirit.htm#tale you propose a story to explain the origin of us here boxed up inside our limitedness and say that a hypothetical being convinced people to surrender their free will in exchange for having all the hard decisions (and eventually all of the decisions full stop) made for them.

Earlier on that page (but before the #tale anchor) you said that later on along the spiritual road (but not so close to the source of creation, I don't think) deception becomes impossible because people know how to read each other.



Here's a piece of history, not philosophy, or maybe it's a case of philosophers making history. The fall of ancient Athens was due to imperialism - normally Greeks didn't do imperialism, and certainly the other city states didn't like it at all, and made war on Athens to make their point.

The disastrous tipping point of the failed Sicilian expedition (Thucydides's History, Book VII) is absolutely gripping.

This is how Athens formed an empire in the first place. Against the foreign enemy, Persia, fifty years earlier, they led the Greeks to an unexpected victory, based mainly on the combined fleet. An alliance was formed to prevent another attack. States began by contributing ships but gradually Athens came to collect money to build better ships herself - it suited everyone at first: it was so much easier to just send the cash than build the ships etc etc and have a say in things. At some point, the situation was turned inside out, like a glove, and the equal allies suddenly became subservient....

It ended in the Peloponesian War, and ultimately with Alexander the Great.

[Seikou-Kishi]

I'm not completely sure what white science is. I did a google search and got results about teeth whitening lol

Seikou-Kishi festers in his ignorance :D

[Wade Frazier]

Hi Seikou-Kishi:

“White science” is jargon from the “fringe science" field. Sorry to introduce the buzzword, but it gets the idea across. I discussed it a little with my second interview with Scott and Tom:

http://www.spectrumradionetwork.com/Archive/wade-frazier-m-the-free-energy-inventors.html

“White science” is basically establishment science. White science has textbooks with the “laws of physics“ in them. White science has the peer-reviewed literature to publish its white science findings, and white science nearly universally relies on the materialistic assumption that consciousness is a mere byproduct of chemistry. There is no such thing as a soul. There is no such thing as a Creator, or if there is, white science’s conception is rather deistic in that the Creator set the universe in motion with the Big Bang, gave the universe the “laws of physics” and then left to pursue other interests, as this universe expands and ultimately dies (or maybe there is enough undetected matter to make it all implode in some billions of years and do a Big Bang all over again).

Black science is the world that the Big Boys play in, with their reverse-engineered ET craft and other goodies:

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/camelot.htm#underground

The principles that such technologies operate under make the physics text looks like cave drawings. Black science and white science are not meant to impart a good/evil comparison. Both have plenty of good and evil in each, but a materialistic perspective tends to lead to the greatest evils. But dark path uses of consciousness and the attendant technologies are the virtual epitome of evil.

The terms “white science” and “black science” have been around for a while. I could come up with something else, like “public“ and “private” science, but white and black work for me.

Hi araucaria:

Yes, the Greek experience is instructive, and I will cover it in my upcoming energy essay a little. It was an energy dynamic above all. The collapse of the Mycenaean civilization was brought on by the deforestation of the Greek islands, for smelting and ship building. The Mediterranean was one of the earliest sites of what is known as “Peak Wood,” as contrasted with Peak Oil:

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/scarcity.htm#fossil

or Peak Whales:

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/simon.htm#whaling

and so on. The war with Sparta centered around control of forests to build the ships. As the wood ran out, Athens tried to conquer Sicily so it could deforest it for its fleet. When Athens finally lost the war, the land around Athens had been turned into a desert due to deforestation. It may be hard to believe today, but the Greek isles originally had forests of cedar and other “lush” trees. Bronze Age deforestation began wiping them out. As other empires rose and fell in the Mediterranean, lands would get deforested again and again. The soil would wash to the sea, and the islands became deserts. Cyprus was deforested for late Bronze Age copper smelting, like the Mycenaean lands were. After the Mycenaean civilization collapsed, the Phoenicians took over Cyprus, and deforested it again. After the Phoenician civilization collapsed, the Romans then deforested Cyprus again, that time mostly for iron. After the Roman Empire collapsed, the Arabs deforested Cyprus for smelting and ship-building. Cyprus was then the site of contention between the Islamic culture and the Christian one, as the Christians controlled Cyprus in the seventh and eight centuries.

When those civilizations would rise and fall, they always did so on the back of the energy supply, which back then were forests and arable land. After defeating Carthage, the Romans eventually turned the Carthage region into the desert land that Libya is known as today, as well as driving almost all large animals to extinction in Northern Africa (for battle in the arenas). Of course, they also plundered all the gold that they could, and enslaving the conquered (for those who were not simply slaughtered or died in the mines, etc.) was a specialty of the day. But, it all rode on the back of the energy situation. Without energy, the engine of conquest and subjugation would not run. They all understood that, hence the battles over the Nile Delta (the source of the Old World’s most reliable food supply), and so on. But, I am getting ahead of myself. :)

My upcoming essay will cover those dynamics.

Best,

Wade

[Carmody]

I always found the idea of 'chemistry' being 'consciousness' as rather amusing and very sickly sad, all at the same time.

In that:

-those who tend to be the biggest contributors to 'pushing the pile forward' or bringing new things to the table are invariably - spiritual.

-those spiritual ones who push science forward invariably have to play with the white science believers ....as if they were a white science believer themselves. For if they did not, their new ideas would be rejected. For the white science believers can be dangerously emotional in an unrealized fashion, regarding their capacity for reason.

Thus, the foolishness parading itself as cutting edge is merely the 'middle of the road' (limited-mediocrity) strutting on the stage, quite oblivious to the true realities. As it has always been.


How does one deal with the psychology and physiology of rejection upon 'fear of death' as a fundamental.... in an unrealized human...... in a consensus reality universe?

[Wade Frazier]

Hi Seikou-Kishi:

I am sorry, but this post is straying a little off-topic. A little more on Peak Wood:

http://www.miller-mccune.com/environment/draft-created-on-may-28-2010-at-534-pm-16596/

http://www.independent.com/news/2010/apr/16/peak-wood/

Perlin’s book is very good. I have not encountered another like it. If people read up on the collapse of civilizations, they will find plenty of controversy. While Tainter himself chalks up collapse to an energy dynamic:

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/hooked.htm#tainter

he himself is a critic of Diamond’s Collapse hypothesizes. I don’t have time to go too far into it today, but while the moment of collapse of any society is usually brought about by human events, usually wars, it is the long, slow decline, brought about by declining energy supplies, that really does them in. But long, slow declines are not dramatic, and often pass unnoticed. That declining energy supply, in pre-industrial societies, usually came in the form of food. Recent research found that the famous collapses probably had prolonged droughts to thank (Maya, Anasazi, Angkor Wat), but the rise and fall of civilizations around the Fertile Crescent had deforestation to thank for plenty of it. Read up on the collapse of those civilizations, and there is plenty of debate on the causes, but whether it was New England, the Valley of Mexico, or Australia, recent history provides dramatic examples of the impact of Iron Age peoples rapidly deforesting the environs of formerly stone-age peoples, and in Mexico and Australia in particular, bringing in grazing animals, particularly sheep, on the heels of the deforestation, rapidly turned the area much dryer. It was even noted at the time by perceptive observers:

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/america.htm#environment

So, while they debate the cause of the encroaching deserts in Africa during the past few thousand years, or debate the causes of the rise and fall of the Fertile Crescent civilizations, Bronze Age and Iron Age deforestation, plow agriculture and ungulate grazers had a huge impact on the situations, impacts that are minimized by the theorists, IMO, especially when we can see the same thing happen in relatively recent history, wherever the Europeans appeared. What the Spanish and Portuguese did to the islands of the Atlantic was a preview of the environmental devastation that they were about to wreak on the planet:

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/america.htm#guanches

Most of the rain that falls in the Amazon is recycled from the Amazon. It essentially creates its own climate. Deforestation creates “positive feedback” that accelerates the process of desertification. Forests are like big sponges that absorb water. Forest ecosystems terraform the Earth into life-friendly environs. Before there was life on land, the continents were one big desert, with rain flooding off of them into the oceans. Terrestrial ecosystems first created a “boundary layer,” defined by the treetops (and plant tops before them, before plants “invented” lignin), which created an environment for the forest denizens to evolve and thrive. Chopping down forests for a short-lived economic benefit is catastrophic to ecosystems, especially on the scale that Iron Age and Industrial Age humans could inflict. Saving the environment is not only “morally” correct, but it is also about saving ourselves.

Excellent question, Carmody. You are outlining part of the conundrum. If the Michael and similar teachings are to be believed:

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/spirit.htm#michael

the younger souls do not have much talent or interest in going inward. Going inward is probably the only thing that can defeat that fear of death. Once you realize that your consciousness is not simply a byproduct of chemistry, everything changes. The Silva course is how I got my mystical awakening:

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/spirit.htm#silva

The very same exercised that opened my eyes is what opened Brian O’s eyes:

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/spirit.htm#oleary

and the eyes of millions of other people. Since Jose died, Silva has become a shadow of itself, with splinter groups forming. They don’t even do live trainings much anymore. What you bring up, about the white scientists, is a big part of the conundrum. Brian wrote that once he had that remote viewing experience, he never really went back to academia. His mystical initiation “ruined” him for white science. But it was still several more years before he left the Citadel.

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/paths.htm#awakening

Then, ten years later, after many adventures, Brian tried to play the Paul Revere of FE, and got a rude awakening:

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/paths.htm#_ednref9

If white scientists could lay aside their prejudice for just a little while, they could have their own remote viewing experience, and it would rock their world. However, they would also be cast out of the Citadel, like Brian was. This is all part of the conundrum. We all have wrestled with this issue, thinking that there might be some life on the fringes of white science, but it is pretty tightly controlled, mostly by the white scientists as they protect their indoctrinated perspective from all “threats” of awakening beyond the materialistic paradigm. Even “tame” stuff like the findings of Rife’s and Naessens’s microscopes:

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/medicine.htm#rife

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/medicine.htm#naessens

is avoided like the plague. White science is really a cult. Of course, the cult members do not want to hear it, as it would deflate their conceits. It is a problem of fear above all else, and yes, it is probably rooted in a fear of death, for those so mesmerized by their instruments and experiments that assumes that consciousness is a byproduct of chemistry. As you know, it can be mind-boggling to see how stuck they are in their intellectual traps of mind and ego. But, their livelihoods are wrapped up in the paradigm. I could never uproot any of them from their comfortable armchairs:

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/radleft.htm#circular

and Brian tried a lot harder than I did.

Best,

Wade