Have your say - Sandbox

[Tony]

Sandbox 2.

Some people may be reluctant to post, as they may feel they would be shot down with criticism. I wondered we had a thread where people were encouraged to say what they feel without others having a go at them. This could open up future debates.

In these days of speculations on conspiracies of conspiracies, there must be something you want to say and have never dared say it before. Now is your chance! Feel free to put anything you are feeling or thinking about but haven't wanted to express it before. This might encourage others to enjoy reading something, that they also feel.

Now is not the time to stay quiet. You know there is an inner dragon or mouse roaring to get out!

[Tony]

I wish more threads were backed up with more research and less guess work. On more scientific sites members are asked to provided proof of their claims, unless it is stated that this is a personal opinion. This would help in knowing who to believe and maybe crying wolf.

[fox.mulder]

Sandbox 2.

Some people may be reluctant to post, as they may feel they would be shot down with criticism. I wondered we had a thread where people were encouraged to say what they feel without others having a go at them. This could open up future debates.

In these days of speculations on conspiracies of conspiracies, there must be something you want to say and have never dared say it before. Now is your chance! Feel free to put anything you are feeling or thinking about but haven't wanted to express it before. This might encourage others to enjoy reading something, that they also feel.

Now is not the time to stay quiet. You know there is an inner dragon or mouse roaring to get out!

Hi Pie'n'eal

Very interesting point. The problem why people get shot down is that they are often puporting fact when in actual reality they are purporting their belief. This goes the same for all the "big wigs" Bob Dean, Inelia, Hoagland etc etc. And then people reply back believing everthing the original poster stated was fact. This is why I invented BSometer are few days ago. So many people were more offended that they were seeing the word Bull**** on their screens than the bull**** that they were reading and believing.

If people dont want to be shot down then clearly post in an opinion context and dont put headers such as "MUST SEE" or "MUST READ". Posters need to know that they will be shot down if they try to push their opinion as fact onto others. This is no different from the obvious hostility toward religious posters pushing their believes. No different at all.

This might change the quality of posts here. You cannot be shot down if you are stating an opinion and you have nothing to be afraid of.

BSometer will be back with CASE Study 2 Edward Alexander so stay tuned.....

[crosby]

i have a definite problem with members who are constantly nagging that nothing that is posted has any merit whatsoever. i feel that if someone has taken the time to start a new thread on an interesting or perhaps, needed topic, then they should be allowed to express their beliefs, whether backed up by scientific data or not...... one of the things that drives me nuts is that when it comes to disclosure, there are many people who feel the government will never come clean, that the word from them is useless!!!! on the other hand, when it comes to something like elenin, or planet x, they want the word of scientists. flip-flop, flip-flop....... i myself came here too learn, which is exactly what i am doing. i use discernment as a powerful tool. we all know what the truth is, we just need to remember. antagonizing op's constantly is just a waste of hard drive space.
regards, corson

[fox.mulder]

i have a definite problem with members who are constantly nagging that nothing that is posted has any merit whatsoever. i feel that if someone has taken the time to start a new thread on an interesting or perhaps, needed topic, then they should be allowed to express their beliefs, whether backed up by scientific data or not...... one of the things that drives me nuts is that when it comes to disclosure, there are many people who feel the government will never come clean, that the word from them is useless!!!! on the other hand, when it comes to something like elenin, or planet x, they want the word of scientists. flip-flop, flip-flop....... i myself came here too learn, which is exactly what i am doing. i use discernment as a powerful tool. we all know what the truth is, we just need to remember. antagonizing op's constantly is just a waste of hard drive space.
regards, corson


Yes put forward your beliefs for discussion but dont push them as fact onto anyone and expect them to believe them. There is a difference.

[crosby]

that is why we use discernment......making somebody feel like a schmuck because they have a strong belief about something isn't the way to do it.
regards, corson

[Heyoka_11]

I wish more threads were backed up with more research and less guess work. On more scientific sites members are asked to provided proof of their claims, unless it is stated that this is a personal opinion. This would help in knowing who to believe and maybe crying wolf.

G'day Pie'n'eal,

I am right behind you with this suggestion. Way too much opinion is served up as fact on this forum. Way too much ego. With regards to future events, until such events have transpired, all we have is opinion. Period! It should be an unwritten code (or even written if neccesary) that personal opinion be stated as such, and that when stated as opinion, people are not shot down in flames.

When a post is served up as fact, a similar code should require that supporting evidence accompany the post. This is already the practice with many, if not most members, but should be standard protocol for all.

Good on you Tony. :)

EDIT: What I have just offered above is in actual fact not factual; it is a personal opinion. I always wanted to be a trend setter!

[fox.mulder]

that is why we use discernment......making somebody feel like a schmuck because they have a strong belief about something isn't the way to do it.
regards, corson

You stil dont get it.......have strong beliefs and discusss them...................just dont push them as fact onto others.............

[Tarka the Duck]

I am having a bit of a problem with something that is a bit tricky to explain...

Sometimes, I read things that people have taken the trouble to post on the forum, and they seem to me to be so clearly "wrong" or just plain "silly" and unsubstantiated - but they receive lots of thanks, and others reply, agreeing with them.

That makes me wonder...and this is the tricky bit...whether there is a tendency to:

- be too keen to believe things because they are NOT part of the mainstream
- be too keen to disbelieve things if they ARE part if the mainstream

Just because a news item is from an alternative source does not automatically make it true.

And this is definitely only my opinion...;)

[crosby]

that is why we use discernment......making somebody feel like a schmuck because they have a strong belief about something isn't the way to do it.
regards, corson

You stil dont get it.......have strong beliefs and discusss them...................just dont push them as fact onto others.............

yes i do get it. perhaps some people are not as attuned to syntax and symantics as some to get their beliefs across to others. or perhaps they need less printed or video truth to use as their inner prompting to start a new thread. some maybe just naive. it is still no reason to attack them.
regards, corson

[fox.mulder]

that is why we use discernment......making somebody feel like a schmuck because they have a strong belief about something isn't the way to do it.
regards, corson

You stil dont get it.......have strong beliefs and discusss them...................just dont push them as fact onto others.............

yes i do get it. perhaps some people are not as attuned to syntax and symantics as some to get their beliefs across to others. or perhaps they need less printed or video truth to use as their inner prompting to start a new thread. some maybe just naive. it is still no reason to attack them.
regards, corson

I dont think you do. If someone starts to push belief as fact onto someone else and they have nothing but lip service to back it up then expect some feedback. The point being pushing a belief as fact onto others as opposed to imparting an opinion.

[Tony]

I was hoping we would play nicely...you are starting to frighten again!
This was a polite way to listen to others.

Personally I fine it takes up a lot of time verifying what someone has said, which has a subtle psychological effect of not following up that persons threads.
I am sure I have the same effect on others...far too heady!

Peace, love, light, all those nice things!!!!!!

[fox.mulder]

You know out of all the people that have posted stuff, written books, done interiews and talks, the one guy that I think who does this properly is Tom Campbell. He may well fabricate all his stuff but he never ever pushes his teachings as fact onto others. Instead he teaches people the way to find out for themselves. He is big on pushing people to observe themselves and make their own judgement. We could do with more of this approach.

[crosby]

that is why we use discernment......making somebody feel like a schmuck because they have a strong belief about something isn't the way to do it.
regards, corson

You stil dont get it.......have strong beliefs and discusss them...................just dont push them as fact onto others.............

yes i do get it. perhaps some people are not as attuned to syntax and symantics as some to get their beliefs across to others. or perhaps they need less printed or video truth to use as their inner prompting to start a new thread. some maybe just naive. it is still no reason to attack them.
regards, corson

I dont think you do. If someone starts to push belief as fact onto someone else and they have nothing but lip service to back it up then expect some feedback. The point being pushing a belief as fact onto others as opposed to imparting an opinion.


oh okay, so i must be a dumb ass, because when i walk into a thread that i find ridiculous, i leave. i don't have the need to hang around and reek havoc. the way to cull a member who is being blatantly ridiculous is too not give them the time. for a falsehood to take off, there has to be an audience. we all have the choice of what we want to read or what we find believable. if a thread has no substantial evidence, why stay? this sends a much louder message to the op.
regards, corson

sorry pie..... peace, love and light and all those nice things.

[fox.mulder]

that is why we use discernment......making somebody feel like a schmuck because they have a strong belief about something isn't the way to do it.
regards, corson

You stil dont get it.......have strong beliefs and discusss them...................just dont push them as fact onto others.............

yes i do get it. perhaps some people are not as attuned to syntax and symantics as some to get their beliefs across to others. or perhaps they need less printed or video truth to use as their inner prompting to start a new thread. some maybe just naive. it is still no reason to attack them.
regards, corson

I dont think you do. If someone starts to push belief as fact onto someone else and they have nothing but lip service to back it up then expect some feedback. The point being pushing a belief as fact onto others as opposed to imparting an opinion.


oh okay, so i must be a dumb ass, because when i walk into a thread that i find ridiculous, i leave. i don't have the need to hang around and reek havoc. the way to cull a member who is being blatantly ridiculous is too not give them the time. for a falsehood to take off, there has to be an audience. we all have the choice of what we want to read or what we find believable. if a thread has no substantial evidence, why stay? this sends a much louder message to the op.
regards, corson

sorry pie..... peace, love and light and all those nice things.

The problem is that you may well leave but alot of people go ahead and start believing everything they read and it starts a snowball effect and gets out of hand. Because alot of the BS'ers out there know that they can get away with it, they do so and it strokes their egos. If people did what you say and simply walked away or simply replied in a vain of "Hey that was interesting, as you have no real evidence I will remain open and skepticle at this time". This kind of atttitude gives respect to the original poster without stroking their ego and starting another Charles.

[Cidersomerset]

Thanks Pie 'n' eal Thought provoking thread..
morning all......Idealy everyone would put in some input to be churned about in the various debates, but obviously knowledge and experiance has a bearing on some posts, others are silly and people can get caught up in the moment and type things that may or may not be relevent. But overall the threads are well put together and there is great info exchanged and i get a lot out of the communal exchanges, and the mods let things flow as much as possible and the odd squabble should be expected in any family of people...

My biggest gripe is the shear amount of threads and the speed they go thru, so enevitably they get repeated , but I don't have the time to repeat the answer on a similar thread and i feel 'guilty' for not being able to put the input the person or the subject may deserve imho. Anyway ideally if it were poss, I like a system of long and short threads.ie Throw away threads so to speak like headline and news flashes etc. which are important, and longer discussional threads that stay in view longer. I dont know if it is poss, and I would not want to curb the enthusiatic participants of any member especially with the influx of new member this year myselfe being one of them. Overall though I feel Avalon is a vibrant place to be and long may it remain so. as for the thanks button theres two trains of thought on here imho some use it like me as a acknowldgement a sort of hello/ thankyou . Some for genuine info or a post they find interresting, and there are some that have thank you allergies like Edward Alexander who in his short stay managed to thank one person.which was probably a slip of the finger..LOL.. cheers steve

[Tony]

Thanks Pie 'n' eal Thought provoking thread..
morning all......Idealy everyone would put in some input to be churned about in the various debates, but obviously knowledge and experiance has a bearing on some posts, others are silly and people can get caught up in the moment and type things that may or may not be relevent. But overall the threads are well put together and there is great info exchanged and i get a lot out of the communal exchanges, and the mods let things flow as much as possible and the odd squabble should be expected in any family of people...

My biggest gripe is the shear amount of threads and the speed they go thru, so enevitably they get repeated , but I don't have the time to repeat the answer on a similar thread and i feel 'guilty' for not being able to put the input the person or the subject may deserve imho. Anyway ideally if it were poss, I like a system of long and short threads.ie Throw away threads so to speak like headline and news flashes etc. which are important, and longer discussional threads that stay in view longer. I dont know if it is poss, and I would not want to curb the enthusiatic participants of any member especially with the influx of new member this year myselfe being one of them. Overall though I feel Avalon is a vibrant place to be and long may it remain so. as for the thanks button theres to trains of thought on here imho some use it like me as a acknowldgement a sort of hello/ thankyou . Some for genuine info or a post they find interresting, and there are some that have thank you allergies like Edward Alexander who in his short stay managed to thank one person.which was probably a slip of the finger..LOL.. cheers steve

Hello Cidersomerset,
I feel the same way. I have actually started two long threads, that I add to after trying it out as a short.

¤=[Post Update]=¤






that is why we use discernment......making somebody feel like a schmuck because they have a strong belief about something isn't the way to do it.
regards, corson

You stil dont get it.......have strong beliefs and discusss them...................just dont push them as fact onto others.............

yes i do get it. perhaps some people are not as attuned to syntax and symantics as some to get their beliefs across to others. or perhaps they need less printed or video truth to use as their inner prompting to start a new thread. some maybe just naive. it is still no reason to attack them.
regards, corson

I dont think you do. If someone starts to push belief as fact onto someone else and they have nothing but lip service to back it up then expect some feedback. The point being pushing a belief as fact onto others as opposed to imparting an opinion.


oh okay, so i must be a dumb ass, because when i walk into a thread that i find ridiculous, i leave. i don't have the need to hang around and reek havoc. the way to cull a member who is being blatantly ridiculous is too not give them the time. for a falsehood to take off, there has to be an audience. we all have the choice of what we want to read or what we find believable. if a thread has no substantial evidence, why stay? this sends a much louder message to the op.
regards, corson

sorry pie..... peace, love and light and all those nice things.

Dear Corson,
You have every right to express what you feel, it may stir others!
It's a sort of get it off your chest and move on up...

[Midnight Rambler]

I have sometimes pictures in my head when reading, but withhold it from the rest of you because I think it may not contribute to the thread.

When i was reading this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?31183-Have-your-say-Sandbox&p=317050&viewfull=1#post317050) from fox.mulder I couldn't help but seeing him play with his BS-O-Meter in the Sandbox :)

[Someoneson1]

You know what's beautiful ...??? I get to decide, regardless of the claim. What I appreciate about this site is the low level of harsh criticism.

[MMA_Fan]

Maybe portion off a section of the forum under 'speculative', or even have an area where we can select a topic and go to town researching on it?

Haven't seen any reptile eye shift videos on here though so that's good :D

[Omni connexae!]

A number of people, not all, don't respond to critique as well as I would hope. Often, people seem to be offended or get defensive when someone questions or refutes a point that has been made.

It's kinda understandable why this happens though, this forum has a large spiritual and alternative undertone, among other things, so there is already a lot of discussions and topics on things people have strong emotional feelings built up around.

I think it's very important, though, to be able to tell the difference between someone criticizing you, and someone criticizing an idea or statement. Instead of criticizing each other - we should be criticizing ideas, together. Taking things like this personally stifles constructive conversation and progress, everywhere. On both a global and forum scale.

I find that one of the biggest hurdles before constructive conversation, is making sure those talking are on the same page. Questions are effective here. Ask each other as many questions as you can, and answer as many as you can too. Then you will have a much clearer idea about where each of you stand, and I find that more often then not, when people understand each others positions better, there is not much left to disagree about. I see so many disagreements in every walk of life that basically come down to the fact that the two people are talking about two different things.

Don't take critical questions personally, it's easy to read it and imagine some 'skeptic' saying it, but what is a skeptic anyway? Isn't skepticism a tool we can all use to sharpen our understanding?

I would also like to see people sharing more of their own ideas and thoughts, when copy pasting and questioning any text/video.

[Daft Ada]

Fox, you are doing exactly what the point of this thread is supposed to stop people like you doing, this thread is supposed to be a place where the members can state their feelings WITHOUT another member jumping down their throat.

i think there are actually very few real investigators and researchers, most people think investigating and researching means spending hours on the net watching you tube video and reading forums, in fact most people on the forums just present information that they have learned in this manner, and I have to say I am no exception. I am not medically capable of doing anything else but research in that manner. But I do recognise that because we are human we will tend towards the theories we like best and then maybe present them as fact if we see the topic being discussed, trouble is there will also be a lot of other people who have done exactly the same thing, but have decided to believe something different and so the same old situation arises, no one is in agreement.
Now that's ok it can make for a fun and entertaining discussion until someone come along who purports to know all and who thinks their word is gospel and starts to shout their views as fact, then when people don't believe their every word the personal attacks start. It's the same in most forums and it wears me down, some people will always answer black with white just for the sake of doing it, maybe that's the whole point of them being there, to disrupt and cause confusion? I don't know. But one thing I do know is that even the people on here who are absolutely certain that what they are saying is fact, have got their information from someone else even if it's at top level like Bill getting it from a whistleblower, and the fact is that it could still be wrong.
No one can prove ultimately and without a Shadow of a doubt that some of this stuff is fact and you will see that because of that the reverse happens and the plan of action is to try and prove what is not fact. This can and does work in certain cases, when a photo identifies something as what it really is, or a person can be proved as a dissinfo agent or just someone like me talking bollocks. I know very little and all my research for over 45 years has been reading and listening to other people, but I have a couple of brain cells and as the years pass I link things together and relate things to each other and as time passes the truth will out, but I see nothing wrong with having a good chat on a topic in a thread and picking the bones out of it, stirring it up and seeing what comes out. But I hate the shouters and the aggressors who always have to ruin a thread by being nasty and making personal attacks on the poster, don't you think that some of the people who come on the forum may be relatively new to this field? they have read some stuff and want to find out what's going on, they come on here and post what they have heard and all the know alls jump on them and attack them and from then on they are too afraid to post, so the forum ends up with just the same old few saying the same old things, then the cliques form and when one of them speaks all the members follow like sheep. by definition a forum is a meeting place for open discussion, the OP shouldn't have to start a thread like this, because the whole damn forum should be like this, if you don't agree with what someone has posted, no one is twisting your arm to post in the thread, who made you, and by you I don't mean anyone in particular, the forum caretaker? that's what we have mods for, if you can't put over your point of view without being nasty and aggresive, then don't say anything. This forum could be a wonderful place to spend time and chat and learn and share, but I have to brace myself to come here and speak, because on the few times I have i have been set upon, even had a member call me a liar for apologising to him, that is just not acceptable and I have to say considering that I know for a fact what a gentleman Bill is I don't understand how he can allow the mods on his forum to allow people to behave like that.
Right, said my piece, lets see if this thread works then or if you are all going to have a go, bring it! ;)

[Mad Hatter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtgtMQwr3Ko&feature=player_embedded

[Normalguy31]

If you don't agree with information posted in a thread, there is this wonderful invention called the back button usually located in the top left corner of your browser. Use it. Why take the time to post in a thread you don't agree with? As for being concerned about new members taking this info as fact blindly that is part of the ride my friends. This is how you learn to discern.

I have learned my lesson many times over now by believing things without doing research, and now from learning this on my own I have a much stronger intuition.

You live, and learn. Life is too much fun to waste time discussing something you don't believe to be true.

[Lord Sidious]

I was hoping we would play nicely...you are starting to frighten again!
This was a polite way to listen to others.

Personally I fine it takes up a lot of time verifying what someone has said, which has a subtle psychological effect of not following up that persons threads.
I am sure I have the same effect on others...far too heady!

Peace, love, light, all those nice things!!!!!!

Yet again I find myself in agreement with pinealnugget.
There is much a lot of us could learn from him, if only we would listen.
I am tired of the conflict too and I am trying to exercise my restraint.
All three atoms of it. :p

[NeverMind]

I am in total agreement with the OP.


Just because a news item is from an alternative source does not automatically make it true.
Exactly.


perhaps some people are not as attuned to syntax and symantics as some to get their beliefs across to others

That's just it, Corson. Precision of thought is equal to precision of expression, and vice versa.
(Syntax has little to do with this, but it may be interesting to point out that it is the indicator of the flow of thought, both in individuals and in linguistic groups.)

And that is precisely why using terms like "in my opinion", "allegedly", "it seems" and so on - using them consistently - would, in my opinion (and experience), cause long-term changes in the actual thought process of those individuals. By becoming aware of the subjecivity of their vision, their world vision would necessarily expand, and their thoughts would become more precise.

Best of all: it's very easy to do, and it costs nothing.

[passiglight]

Great thread you created mr pie mannnnn,,,,,,,love your energy dude,,

First,,,,,,,,and you have the right to dis a gree,,,,,,or just scroll down page,depending on your perception and energy,,,,,,,,,

and that is the point of the exercise here,,,,,,,,,,,

There is just PERSPECTIVES,,,,,,individual perspectives from the I AM ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

There is only ENERGY,,,,,,,,,,,

How the I AM resonates with the frequency of any info or dis,,,,,,,,,,is what this thread is about,,,,,,,,,,

Do not pass judgement on the energy you are presented with,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,EGO

Recognise it's signature/s and using one's DISCERNMENT,take from it or mingle with-it,,,,,,,,,

Allow it to mingle with your own energy,,,,,,,,

Written communication is the Biggest single form of MAJIK there is,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Recognise it's signature,,,,,,,

But do not ever discount anything,,,,,,,,,,,,if you are capable of widening your horizon,, then you utilise All Information energy coming your way,,,,,,,,,,

one energy

[passiglight]

Now,,, back on topic,,,,,,,,,,,

I am psychic,,,,,,,

I am not interested how this affects you,,,,,,,,,,i know how it affects you,,,,,,,,,,,


I am trying my hardest to overcome an energy from Germaine which is extremely negative,,,,,,,,,,,

I asked METATRON for guidance when my partner and i were on the Tor last night,,,,,,,,,,,

I know the answer allready but i always need to hear a message a few times before it gets through to the appropriate brain slot,,,,,,

I also believe we are at the end of 80 million year cycle,,,,,,,,,,as of tomorrow,,,,,,,,,

The controlling group that has been managing this project us, for the past 17,000 are the ascended masters (all, alive and well today),,,,,,,

Of whom,,,,,,,,3 are from atlantis,but originally arcturian,,,,,,,,,,they have worked with nearly 500 earthlings to manifest their ascension,, , the rest a mixture of off- worlders and earthlings, all making up a big ass galactic federation of beings,,,,,,,

and they are here, now and are about to introduce themselves,,,,,,,,,to the general public

and i can prove it,,,,,,,,,

lmao,,

energy to cosmos beings

[Dawn]

Maybe portion off a section of the forum under 'speculative', or even have an area where we can select a topic and go to town researching on it?

Haven't seen any reptile eye shift videos on here though so that's good :D

I did see the reptile eye shift videos here just yesterday! LOL

I wish there were not so much emphasis on drama... especially choosing thread titles that suck me in ... and the titles have almost nothing to do with the content. These are a waste of my time.

I also am sometimes bugged by what seems like a determined effort to provide supporting evidence of victimhood, even if the evidence is almost non-existant.

I prefer communicating with people who are in the attitude of courage, action, and seeing past the surface of things. I guess I with the level of conscious awareness were higher on the majority of posts.

On the other hand, I would not wish to lock out others who are in that place (the victim) at this time. I too went through feeling like a victim (and sometimes I still do). I really like it when someone fishes me out of this particular mud puddle so that I can get straight again.

Being an angry victim just perpetuates the patterns. Uhhh.... well I guess I must be in judgement of this pattern (better go inside and work on myself and my biases some more)

[MMA_Fan]

Maybe portion off a section of the forum under 'speculative', or even have an area where we can select a topic and go to town researching on it?

Haven't seen any reptile eye shift videos on here though so that's good :D

I did see the reptile eye shift videos here just yesterday! LOL



What!? Where?
:peep:

[John Parslow]

Hello Tarka many thanks for your post

I do understand perfectly what you are saying there have been many postings which do appear silly and unsubstantiated and there have been many times when I have a diametrically opposed view but still press the thank you button - this does not necessarily mean that I agree with the content or sentiment of the post but am merely thanking that person for their input. As with all material available on the internet discernment is the key and the best advice is to surf the net and gather your own research …


Just because a news item is from an alternative source does not automatically make it true.


Remember that members of Avalon are a disparate bunch and most are really kind well-meaning people but we do not inevitably share similar ideas - that is why Avalon is such a great site to be a part of. I do not post or answer posts very often but I do read a lot and have learned much from some of the excellent folks here …

Best regards to you. JP :cool:

[Operator]

I wish more threads were backed up with more research and less guess work. On more scientific sites members are asked to provided proof of their claims, unless it is stated that this is a personal opinion. This would help in knowing who to believe and maybe crying wolf.

Your wish is timely ... I listened yesterday to: Jan Irvin - Trivium Education on Red Ice Radio

http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2011/08/RIR-110818-jirvin.mp3
http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2011/08/RIR-110818.php

This episode was not about juicy conspiracies ... it seemed boring at first but very interesting ultimately, it
was about a more academic way to increase discernment. Something most of us here could still learn a lot about.

Here are some examples that are also posted on RiR website ...

m2TIpz2lClg

3AMjtsY9i_M

Learn how propaganda is constructed, learn how to detect it and learn not to propagate it. :yo:

[Mike]

Fox, you are doing exactly what the point of this thread is supposed to stop people like you doing, this thread is supposed to be a place where the members can state their feelings WITHOUT another member jumping down their throat.

i think there are actually very few real investigators and researchers, most people think investigating and researching means spending hours on the net watching you tube video and reading forums, in fact most people on the forums just present information that they have learned in this manner, and I have to say I am no exception. I am not medically capable of doing anything else but research in that manner. But I do recognise that because we are human we will tend towards the theories we like best and then maybe present them as fact if we see the topic being discussed, trouble is there will also be a lot of other people who have done exactly the same thing, but have decided to believe something different and so the same old situation arises, no one is in agreement.
Now that's ok it can make for a fun and entertaining discussion until someone come along who purports to know all and who thinks their word is gospel and starts to shout their views as fact, then when people don't believe their every word the personal attacks start. It's the same in most forums and it wears me down, some people will always answer black with white just for the sake of doing it, maybe that's the whole point of them being there, to disrupt and cause confusion? I don't know. But one thing I do know is that even the people on here who are absolutely certain that what they are saying is fact, have got their information from someone else even if it's at top level like Bill getting it from a whistleblower, and the fact is that it could still be wrong.
No one can prove ultimately and without a Shadow of a doubt that some of this stuff is fact and you will see that because of that the reverse happens and the plan of action is to try and prove what is not fact. This can and does work in certain cases, when a photo identifies something as what it really is, or a person can be proved as a dissinfo agent or just someone like me talking bollocks. I know very little and all my research for over 45 years has been reading and listening to other people, but I have a couple of brain cells and as the years pass I link things together and relate things to each other and as time passes the truth will out, but I see nothing wrong with having a good chat on a topic in a thread and picking the bones out of it, stirring it up and seeing what comes out. But I hate the shouters and the aggressors who always have to ruin a thread by being nasty and making personal attacks on the poster, don't you think that some of the people who come on the forum may be relatively new to this field? they have read some stuff and want to find out what's going on, they come on here and post what they have heard and all the know alls jump on them and attack them and from then on they are too afraid to post, so the forum ends up with just the same old few saying the same old things, then the cliques form and when one of them speaks all the members follow like sheep. by definition a forum is a meeting place for open discussion, the OP shouldn't have to start a thread like this, because the whole damn forum should be like this, if you don't agree with what someone has posted, no one is twisting your arm to post in the thread, who made you, and by you I don't mean anyone in particular, the forum caretaker? that's what we have mods for, if you can't put over your point of view without being nasty and aggresive, then don't say anything. This forum could be a wonderful place to spend time and chat and learn and share, but I have to brace myself to come here and speak, because on the few times I have i have been set upon, even had a member call me a liar for apologising to him, that is just not acceptable and I have to say considering that I know for a fact what a gentleman Bill is I don't understand how he can allow the mods on his forum to allow people to behave like that.
Right, said my piece, lets see if this thread works then or if you are all going to have a go, bring it! ;)

well, if this is a thread where we're gonna be totally honest, may i request that members make a conscious effort to use short paragraphs to make their opinions more readable;)

this is a passionate and lively post Daft Ada, and i respect what you've written here, but i personally find it daunting to approach such a monolithic monster of a paragraph; so much so that i'll usually skip over such posts.

sorry if this sounds petty or pretentious or whiny. its just that i don't think i'm alone here, and it would be a shame if members skipped over useful posts like this one.

[Daft Ada]

To be honest mate I often do too, but a mans gotta say what a mans gotta say ;)

[Mike]

and another thing...

essentially all that we're doing here is speculating and guessing. sources are generally vague and ambiguous at best. theories and ideas proposed from even the most respected members of the whistleblowing community are so fantastical and esoteric that even if we had the luxury of endless funds and the latest cutting edge technology and a handful of experts, we'd still be unable to definitively prove or disprove most if not all of their claims.

look, though we're loathe to admit it, many of us are here for one reason: entertainment. yes, we've met some great people along the way and picked up some valuable information, but more than anything else this forum - for me, personally anyway - serves as a way of passing time.

if i had a complaint it would be this: occasionally i'll hear a member deride another member for believing in the work of say...i'll use Edward Alexander as an example here. Said poster will scold the alleged gullibility of the other poster, and invariably one key word will always pop up (and it always makes me laugh): DISCERNMENT.

discernment. everybody nods soberly and queques up to "thank" said poster for their perceived wisdom. but though we all know what discernment means, do we really know how to apply it to this crazy, nebulous world of conspiracy and whistleblowing? we all act like we do;), but i'd guess everyone is equally as confused as i am.

my point is this: how can someone who believes in the work of someone like David Icke then turn around and scold someone else who believes in, say, Charles? how can you question the "discernment' of another member when you yourself believe in reptilian shapeshifters and the moon matrix and manchurian candidates and evil 4th dimensional beings who eat babies for fun? and so on and so forth...

discernment is so ambiguous a word in this field that its rendered practically meaningless. i say this: everybody post whatever the f$ck you want, and if anyone's sense of "discernment" is offended, simply move on to another thread. plain and simple.

[Mike]

To be honest mate I often do too, but a mans gotta say what a mans gotta say ;)

and you've said it with style, my friend! :cool:

[Lisab]

Thankyou Pie I just sometimes worry about not articulating my point clearly. Its all about feelings for me being a not very logical pisces but thats an issue of mine Im dealing with it. If you dont mind Im going to quote one of my favourite authors because it jst about sums it all up for me today........"I can believe things that are true and things that arent true and I can believe things where nobody knows if their true or not.

I can believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny and the Beatles and Marilyn Monroe and Elvis and Mister Ed. Listen-I believe that people are perfectable, that knowledge is infinate, that the world is run by secret banking cartels and is visited by aliens on a regular basis, nice ones that look like wrinkled lemurs and bad ones who mutilate cattle and want our water and our women.

I believe that the future sucks and I believe that the future rocks and I believe that one day White Buffalo Calf Woman is going to come back and kick everyone's ass. I believe that all men are just overgrown boys with deep problems communicating and that the decline in good sex in America is coincident with the decline in drive-in movies from state to state.

I believe that all politicians are unprincipled crooks and I still believe that they are better than the alternative. I believe that California is going to sink into the sea when the big ones comes, while Florida is going to dissolve into madness and alligators and toxic waste.

I believe that antibacterial soap is destroying our resistance to dirt and disease so that one day we'll all be wiped out by the common cold like martians in War of the Worlds.

I believe that the greatest poets of the last century were Edith Sitwell and Don Marquis, that jade is dried dragon sperm, and that thousands of years ago in a former life I was a one-armed Siberian shaman.

I believe that mankind's destiny lies in the stars. I believe that candy really did taste better when I was a kid, that its aerodynamically impossible for a bumble bee to fly and light is a wave and a particle, that there's a cat in a box somewhere who's alive and dead at the same time (although if they dont ever open the box to feed it it'll eventually just be two different kinds of dead),and that there are stars in the universe billions of years older that the universe itself.

I believe in a personal god who cares about me and worries and oversees everything I do. I believe in an impersonal god who set the universe in motion and went off to hang with her girlfriends and doesnt even know Im alive. I believe in an empty and godless universe of causal chaos, background noise and sheer blind luck.

I believe that anyone who says sex is overrated just hasnt done it properly. I believe that anyone who claims to know whats going on will lie about the little things too.

I believe in absolute honesty and sensible social lies. I believe in a woman's right to choose, a baby's right to live, that while all human life is sacred there's nothing wrong with the death penalty if you can trust the legal system implicitly, and that no one but a moron would ever trust the legal system.

I believe that life is a game, that life is a cruel joke, and life is what happens when you're alive and you might as well lie back and enjoy it." Neil Gaiman - American Gods

[HURRITT ENYETO]

I would like people to check more thoroughly whether a thread has been started already before starting a new one.
I frequently see a thread that i know has been presented in the past, and is total Bull Sh*t, and i post my info about it being nonsense. Then next week i see the same thing in a different thread, again i will say its nonsense but after 2 or 3 times I get sick of it and don't respond. Then I feel guilty that I said nothing and people might get sucked in!!

I feel more and more like some kind of debunker when i come to Avalon, which is the last thing i would ever want. I know how i felt about debunkers when i was starting out on my own personal journey of uncovering the truth.

I feel VERY,VERY let down by most of the personality's in the alternative community.
I have learnt the hard way when it came to giving people my trust and giving them the benefit of the doubt!!
I am here for information and for the other members.

You did ask......:)

Hurritt

[Maia Gabrial]

We all have something to say. No more, no less important than another's words. If you post, then be ready to deal with whatever responses come. Not everyone will agree you, but that's okay. If someone wants to say something silly or off topic, cool. In the moment that you share your words, you shine....

[Guest]

Well I will play in the Sandbox too

I have met some pretty cool people here in PA -some I would say are total egg heads, smarties, quite spiritual, very deep, intuitive and "nuggets" as Lord Sidious would call them.

I have read threads and post :confused: and I have probably posted some stuff that would make people here do the same thing. I try and read with an open mind and remember stuff that people have posted -it may or may not be relative to something else. I have and am learning a lot. Some of the Avalonians (ModWiz was one of them)have made some good suggestions to me too -I am relatively new to PA -but I am here for I have had similar experiences and getting tired of the Lie being perpetuated beyond belief....adinfinitum

I have cried for some of the people who have posted here some very heart felt stuff and I have sat here and just so L....O....L. I love the stuff that makes me smile. Grateful to be here

Nora

we are all related

[Mike]

Thankyou Pie I just sometimes worry about not articulating my point clearly. Its all about feelings for me being a not very logical pisces but thats an issue of mine Im dealing with it. If you dont mind Im going to quote one of my favourite authors because it jst about sums it all up for me today........"I can believe things that are true and things that arent true and I can believe things where nobody knows if their true or not.

I can believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny and the Beatles and Marilyn Monroe and Elvis and Mister Ed. Listen-I believe that people are perfectable, that knowledge is infinate, that the world is run by secret banking cartels and is visited by aliens on a regular basis, nice ones that look like wrinkled lemurs and bad ones who mutilate cattle and want our water and our women.

I believe that the future sucks and I believe that the future rocks and I believe that one day White Buffalo Calf Woman is going to come back and kick everyone's ass. I believe that all men are just overgrown boys with deep problems communicating and that the decline in good sex in America is coincident with the decline in drive-in movies from state to state.

I believe that all politicians are unprincipled crooks and I still believe that they are better than the alternative. I believe that California is going to sink into the sea when the big ones comes, while Florida is going to dissolve into madness and alligators and toxic waste.

I believe that antibacterial soap is destroying our resistance to dirt and disease so that one day we'll all be wiped out by the common cold like martians in War of the Worlds.

I believe that the greatest poets of the last century were Edith Sitwell and Don Marquis, that jade is dried dragon sperm, and that thousands of years ago in a former life I was a one-armed Siberian shaman.

I believe that mankind's destiny lies in the stars. I believe that candy really did taste better when I was a kid, that its aerodynamically impossible for a bumble bee to fly and light is a wave and a particle, that there's a cat in a box somewhere who's alive and dead at the same time (although if they dont ever open the box to feed it it'll eventually just be two different kinds of dead),and that there are stars in the universe billions of years older that the universe itself.

I believe in a personal god who cares about me and worries and oversees everything I do. I believe in an impersonal god who set the universe in motion and went off to hang with her girlfriends and doesnt even know Im alive. I believe in an empty and godless universe of causal chaos, background noise and sheer blind luck.

I believe that anyone who says sex is overrated just hasnt done it properly. I believe that anyone who claims to know whats going on will lie about the little things too.

I believe in absolute honesty and sensible social lies. I believe in a woman's right to choose, a baby's right to live, that while all human life is sacred there's nothing wrong with the death penalty if you can trust the legal system implicitly, and that no one but a moron would ever trust the legal system.

I believe that life is a game, that life is a cruel joke, and life is what happens when you're alive and you might as well lie back and enjoy it." Neil Gaiman - American Gods

Lisab this is one of the best posts i've read in a while (though i think Charles Bukowski was the best poet of the last century;))

everybody wants it black or white but neglect to acknowledge the nuance, which is where the real truth lies.

"tyranny is the deliberate removal of nuance." - Albert Maysles

[Tarka the Duck]

@ Lisab

Never read that before...LOVE IT! :cool:

Thanks
Kathie