Eight Traits of the Disinformationalist

[Mark]

I got this from this site (http://www.drjudywood.com/articles/short/disinfo.html). Just engaging in debate and argumentation automatically results in one, both or all engaging in some of these tactics. When used together, consistently, do they point without doubt to purposeful disinformation?

1) Avoidance. They never actually discuss issues head-on or provide constructive input, generally avoiding citation of references or credentials. Rather, they merely imply this, that, and the other. Virtually everything about their presentation implies their authority and expert knowledge in the matter without any further justification for credibility.

2) Selectivity. They tend to pick and choose opponents carefully, either applying the hit-and-run approach against mere commentators supportive of opponents, or focusing heavier attacks on key opponents who are known to directly address issues. Should a comment at or become argumentative with any success, the focus will shift to include the commentator as well.
[add example: Hold "conferences" but do not invite key opponents. Decline all invitations to events where key opponents will be present. (JW, 2007)]

3) Coincidental. They tend to surface suddenly and somewhat coincidentally with a new controversial topic with no clear prior record of participation in general discussions in the particular public arena involved. They likewise tend to vanish once the topic is no longer of general concern. They were likely directed or elected to be there for a reason, and vanish with the reason.
[add example: Manage a Journal where content is carefully managed. Reject submissions by opponents and accept ad hominem hit pieces attacking opponents, regardless of how much they may undermine the credibility of the Journal. (JW, 2007)]

4) Teamwork. They tend to operate in self-congratulatory and complementary packs or teams. Of course, this can happen naturally in any public forum, but there will likely be an ongoing pattern of frequent exchanges of this sort where professionals are involved. Sometimes one of the players will infiltrate the opponent camp to become a source for straw man or other tactics designed to dilute opponent presentation strength.

5) Anti-conspiratorial. They almost always have disdain for 'conspiracy theorists' and, usually, for those who in any way believe JFK was not killed by LHO. Ask yourself why, if they hold such disdain for conspiracy theorists, do they focus on defending a single topic discussed in a NG focusing on conspiracies? One might think they would either be trying to make fools of everyone on every topic, or simply ignore the group they hold in such disdain.Or, one might more rightly conclude they have an ulterior motive for their actions in going out of their way to focus as they do.
[add example: Omit including the "official government story" of 9/11 as a conspiracy theory. (JW, 2007)]

6) Artificial Emotions. An odd kind of 'artificial' emotionalism and an unusually thick skin -- an ability to persevere and persist even in the face of overwhelming criticism and unacceptance. This likely stems from intelligence community training that, no matter how condemning the evidence, deny everything, and never become emotionally involved or reactive. The net result for a disinfo artist is that emotions can seem artificial. Most people, if responding in anger, for instance, will express their animosity throughout their rebuttal. But disinfo types usually have trouble maintaining the 'image' and are hot and cold with respect to pretended emotions and their usually more calm or unemotional communications style. It's just a job, and they often seem unable to 'act their role in character' as well in a communications medium as they might be able in a real face-to-face conversation/confrontation. You might have outright rage and indignation one moment, ho-hum the next, and more anger later -- an emotional yo-yo. With respect to being thick-skinned, no amount of criticism will deter them from doing their job, and they will generally continue their old disinfo patterns without any adjustments to criticisms of how obvious it is that they play that game -- where a more rational individual who truly cares what others think might seek to improve their communications style, substance, and so forth, or simply give up.

7) Inconsistent. There is also a tendency to make mistakes which betray their true self/motives. This may stem from not really knowing their topic, or it may be somewhat 'freudian', so to speak, in that perhaps they really root for the side of truth deep within.

I have noted that often, they will simply cite contradictory information which neutralizes itself and the author. For instance, one such player claimed to be a Navy pilot, but blamed his poor communicating skills (spelling, grammar, incoherent style) on having only a grade-school education. I'm not aware of too many Navy pilots who don't have a college degree. Another claimed no knowledge of a particular topic/situation but later claimed first-hand knowledge of it.

8) BONUS TRAIT: Time Constant. Recently discovered, with respect to News Groups, is the response time factor. There are three ways this can be seen to work, especially when the government or other empowered player is involved in a cover up operation:

1) ANY NG posting by a targeted proponent for truth can result in an IMMEDIATE response. The government and other empowered players can afford to pay people to sit there and watch for an opportunity to do some damage. SINCE DISINFO IN A NG ONLY WORKS IF THE READER SEES IT - FAST RESPONSE IS CALLED FOR, or the visitor may be swayed towards truth.

2) When dealing in more direct ways with a disinformationalist, such as email, DELAY IS CALLED FOR - there will usually be a minimum of a 48-72 hour delay. This allows a sit-down team discussion on response strategy for best effect, and even enough time to 'get permission' or instruction from a formal chain of command.

3) In the NG example 1) above, it will often ALSO be seen that bigger guns are drawn and fired after the same 48-72 hours delay - the team approach in play. This is especially true when the targeted truth seeker or their comments are considered more important with respect to potential to reveal truth. Thus, a serious truth sayer will be attacked twice for the same sin.

[sidh25]

i was gonna say they are really good at explaining away stuff but then i realized you're talking about disinformationalists and not mainstream reporters.

[onawah]

This all sounds very familiar. I'm sure we had some of those people on PA in the past, when it was really cooking here.
Annoying as hell!

[kouby]

I wouldn't take advice from a known disinfo agent like Judy Wood if I were you. If you really want to learn about disinformation simply read up on Goebbels (http://www.psywarrior.com/Goebbels.html), after all, he's recognized as the great propagandist of the twentieth century.

[Mark]

interesting stuff! i think most of us here at Avalon are well-versed in these tactics and do not fall for them for the most part.

[haibane]

I wouldn't take advice from a known disinfo agent like Judy Wood if I were you.
+1
(^__~ )

[Mark]

Back up. Yadayadayada.

[noxon medem]

..
-
So .....

- the old saying might apply :
To find what it is , see what it is not ...
(the quick version)

:fish2:

[Mark]

Sounds like a plan to me. There are certain methodologies that can be seen in certain places at certain times. Ways people interact that follow certain patterns. Being aware of the patterns allows one to use their discernment in engaging these individuals. It is not necessary to confront them, just to treat them with a `long-handled spoon`, as my Texas family might say. Give them their space, do not respond to their provocations, and keep it moving.

Leave someone alone and if their energy and modus operandi are contentious and combative, they will have to be reassigned to another forum, since they cannot be successful here.

[buckminster fuller]

i was gonna say they are really good at explaining away stuff but then i realized you're talking about disinformationalists and not mainstream reporters.

funny, it's the word "politician" that came to my mind... "what" we have as a president today in france, nicolas sarkozy, fits perfectly to every single item you mention Rahkyt.

It reminds me of this thread :

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?33382-How-to-Spot-Psychopaths-Speech-Patterns-Give-Them-Away

which covers sociopaths, but some hardcore narcissism must be needed to generate disinformation.. There have been quite a number of threads about the subject of sociopaths. Always controversial and sometime borderline in terms of the eugenic type of ideology that it brings about.

thanks for this great post !

[Mark]

No problem, Sir. I think now we have a need to be aware of information and how it is used, especially in the company of intelligent and inquisitive souls such as we have here. True information-sharing should never result in discord if it is shared in the best sense of assisting others. If there is a fight involved, there is something else going on. Egos, usually. But when the same people are always engaged in contentious behavior, something else is going on.

Something else. Is going on.

[noxon medem]

Sounds like a plan to me. There are certain methodologies that can be seen in certain places at certain times. Ways people interact that follow certain patterns. Being aware of the patterns allows one to use their discernment in engaging these individuals. It is not necessary to confront them, just to treat them with a `long-handled spoon`, as my Texas family might say. Give them their space, do not respond to their provocations, and keep it moving.

Leave someone alone and if their energy and modus operandi are contentious and combative, they will have to be reassigned to another forum, since they cannot be successful here.

A lot of good can be said about friendly intellectual battle , or challenge.
That kind of thing should be a natural way to interact on a forum like this ...

The genral limit should be high for personal expression, even on the limit
of trial and error , what are friends , family , and common forums for ....

All well, and happy holidays , for the happy of you ..
( & for all the rest , be well : )

And so
- sorry for use of any poor humour .
like this:

11758

-click on image for larger view

So ...
( - you decide ..).

:- )


:)


:fish2:

nm

[Cartomancer]

This is interesting. I do GIS also and have written a book about historical applications. When I first began to write and blog about the spatial arrangement of monuments I was soundly attacked. I had made one video at that point on youtube. Another person who disagreed with what I was saying made 18 videos to rebut the single video I had made.He taunted me and told me I would be off of the internet within a year and that he had done it to others etc. He also contacted every media outlet i had been interviewed with and spread disinfo in just the way you described. He used intelligent jargon that made absolutely no sense with regard to what I had written or said.

Rahkyt, go to my posts and see some of the videos I've posted. They may interest you. Survivalcell.blogspot.com for articles.

I found myself being quizzed about the basics of maps and GIS simply because this person had suggested to them that I didn't know what I was talking about. The only good thing that came out of it was the fact that I took my info and had it examined by several doctoral level geographers and they all said it was valid. This guy had one interviewer convinced that Google Earth was not accurate enough to measure lines and angles on the earth! Each assumption had been doubled by point to point calculations etc .

In short that entire experience was very upsetting and at least made me think about not continuing etc. Since then I have experienced a wide variety of harassment. I am sad to say that i hear more negative things about what I am saying because the only people who care are the ones it exposes. I definitely believe that in addition to the sockpuppets and sicko's who enjoy upsetting people is a braintrust who's mission is to subvert and guide the curious down the rabbit hole. In the genre of the mysterious or strange there are certain subjects if not addressed result in you being soundly and wholly ignored. Try telling the truth w/ rational evidence and see where it gets you.

[sunnyrap]

Many years ago I was involved in a 'consciousness raising' event whose aim was to 'end hunger in our generation'. It was there that I got to meet the original Buckminister Fuller, a man I completely admire and respect...a personal hero. Anyway, I bring it up here because one of the things we as a group learned was that in ANY group, no matter how lofty and high-minded the members and their goals, you simply would have a certain amount of contention, argument, disrespect, even hostility. There's probably a formula for calculating the percentages of each personality type in any given group.

This is not news...but what WAS a novel idea (put forth by Bucky and others) to me at that time was that even the most obnoxious, argumentative, disruptive members of the group made a valuable contribution for being the grain of sand around which the pearl of wisdom, truth, right-actions could be formed. Great ideas seem to have to push against resistance to be worth birthing.

I noticed that embracing this idea tends to diffuse the power that disruptive-argumentative people tend to draw to themselves and put it back in the hands of people trying to accomplish something positive, and supports the idea that there is a real and benevolent PLAN even behind the existence and actions of apparent 'evil-doers', or even the negativity or disinterest of normally responsibly responsive folks

[Selene]

Excellent summary, Rahkyt. Many thanks.

To it, I might add from my own personal experience, the biggest “tell” for most beginner disinfos is checking out their comment trail or posting history:

• They always seem to be the “skeptic”, the neinzugger or naysayer. But if you look at it all – they’re the skeptic about everything on the site. In other words: Why are they here if they disbelieve everything that’s said here? Why haven’t you moved on? Why are you wasting your time on this site? But no – they have a job to do. A “normal” skeptic would have shrugged, laughed, and moved on long ago. Why are they still here?

• They always dis other people’s ideas; but they never seem to put forward a proposal of their own or an alternative hypothesis. Their only purpose seems to be to discredit others, not to learn or discuss.

• They frequently use outright ridicule and mockery to discredit the original poster “Hah! Hah! You believe that!!?? That’s wacko!!” etc.

• They attempt to divide the audience and attempt to enlist others: “I’m not gonna listen to this stupid sh*t and I’m leaving this forum! Who’s coming with me..?” etc.

• They rely on emotion rather than logic. See above.

Granted, these are only the amateurs. Higher levels of infiltration follow. The “Mr. Nice Guys”, the “Gypsy Moths”, the “Lost Souls” etc.

But yeah: they’re all here, too. It’s their job.

Good awareness, Rahkyt.

Cheers,

Selene

[Borden]

Good thread, Rahkyt,

I've personally had a couple of experiences here where I have been the skeptic, and was fully aware at the time that there were people who would suspect me of being such a disinfo type. It gave me an unpleasant feeling, and I would just like to add this point:

There is a problem here of being cowed in what we express, and that problem takes several forms. This thread makes me consider the possibility that one of those inhibitions may be the fear of being thought a disinfo agent if one goes against the grain or argues against something that everyone else seems to believe.

I've only now had the full realisation (perhaps I was being naive) that much of the apparently petty argument, outrage and so forth - that has been seen in recent events and in other episodes - may well be paranoia based. There is often a touchiness that seems at odds with the spirit of the forum, and some of it may stem from a fear of being suspected of something nefarious.

I have looked at other 'similar' forums, and without bothering to name names they are, by and large, zoos. I think this one is highly likely to harbour disinfo people as it is a rather more civilised place, and seems likely to remain so whatever upheavals and episodes may occur from time to time. I suppose that makes it more irksome to those that place such people in forums.

So I'm glad to see this subject addressed in an intelligent way, because yes, it's something I think about too - when I read posts and when I post myself. The worst thing that could happen is for them to manage to install a climate of paranoia and suspicion here. Looking at the problem with a clear mind rather than the pitchfork wielding mentality is obviously the most constructive way, and thank you, Rahkyt.

My feeling is that we should be mindful of the problem of planted disinfo agents, but not paranoid. That way our minds are not clouded by the dark side (your profile pic is influencing my language, clearly!), and we also feel free to disagree and disbelieve if we genuinely feel that way.

Borden.

[Cartomancer]

I'm going to have to agree. If you go around worrying all the time that this or that person is a "disinfo" agent then it is just bad. If someone tries to disagree or troll you then the best thing to do is to ignore it. Most people recognize negative energy right away. On the other hand if you disagree or just don't believe what is being said it is important to be civil and respectful when stating why.

Many people have huge amounts of emotional investment in their beliefs. If they have experienced something out of the ordinary that is hard for people to believe then it may heighten these feelings. On the internet it is very easy to misinterpret the tone of what one is saying. We have all been unintentionally insulted or may have unintentionally insulted others.

I for one will continue to politely disagree if I see something questionable. When you get right down to it many of the things we are presented with must be believed as a matter of faith as there is often little physical evidence to prove many of our claims. Something about the character or facts involved serves to convince us or make us skeptical. I think we should simply forget about all of this an continue along. If people are here trying subvert things then there is nothing you can do about it. Going around and mistreating or ignoring people you suspect of being disinformation agents is just not right either. You are throwing darts hoping for a bullseye and in the process you will end up ostracizing someone who doesn't deserve it. We do not want to turn PA into the Lord of the Flies here.

[Mark]

Thank you all for your amazing and on-point contributions to the thread. in general, I would agree that the emotional involvement is par the course in any forum where people are sharing their truths and where the people are, generally, seekers after non-mainstream Truth. So, I do believe that most of the argumentation that occurs is not only necessary but healthy. I also agree that the posting history and the general modus operandi is the key aspect in attempting to determine if someone is a Disinfo-agent or not. And even then, it is possible to be incorrect in that assumption. Perhaps we can never know at all if someone is or not unless they make an obvious and fatal mistake, which would apply primarily to the rookies rather than experienced operatives.

I'd like to think that this forum deserves a pro, as there are so many here who not only are intellectually capable of discerning when they are being had, but are spiritually conscious enough to use their inner knowing in order to tell truth from falsehood, good intentions from bad.





And so
- sorry for use of any poor humour .

I don't think there is any such thing as "poor humor". Sometimes you have to laugh to keep from crying. Especially about the most serious of topics. I think people understimate the importance of forums like this, and the fact that what they represent is a condensed version of what is happening 'out there' on a larger scale. If a forum like Godlike Productions can be monitored and utilized by the PTW, how can we not believe that a forum like PA can as well, even if at a higher and harder to discern level of infiltration?

But humor always keeps us mindful and, as I learned in another thread just yesterday, it helps us to keep the Reptilian Brain at bay by engaging the higher aspects of mind.


This is interesting. I do GIS also and have written a book about historical applications. When I first began to write and blog about the spatial arrangement of monuments I was soundly attacked. I had made one video at that point on youtube. Another person who disagreed with what I was saying made 18 videos to rebut the single video I had made.He taunted me and told me I would be off of the internet within a year and that he had done it to others etc. He also contacted every media outlet i had been interviewed with and spread disinfo in just the way you described. He used intelligent jargon that made absolutely no sense with regard to what I had written or said.

And he is probably smart enough to know that he made no sense, which probably adds to his ego. The power of the word is no joke, people such as that speak nonsense in ways that reveal the workings of their innermost thoughts, their peculiar 'twist' upon reality. Others, reading their words and unsure of their own proficiency in whatever language, comply or back down, fearing that their perceived ignorance is in play, not realizing that they are being played. It works.


Rahkyt, go to my posts and see some of the videos I've posted. They may interest you. Survivalcell.blogspot.com for articles.

Will do. Nice to meet you, fellow Techician. LOL


I found myself being quizzed about the basics of maps and GIS simply because this person had suggested to them that I didn't know what I was talking about. The only good thing that came out of it was the fact that I took my info and had it examined by several doctoral level geographers and they all said it was valid. This guy had one interviewer convinced that Google Earth was not accurate enough to measure lines and angles on the earth! Each assumption had been doubled by point to point calculations etc .

Well, I was ABD in a doctoral program, didn't finish, but my dissertation did employ GIS. I've worked extensively in the field for years as well as used it for research. There are a lot of open source GIS software packages out there that can be used in order to apply greater statistical applications to the raw data to create new layers and find deeper relationships, which is what I am interested in right now. But we can talk about that back-channel, or in another thread, if you wish.


In short that entire experience was very upsetting and at least made me think about not continuing etc. Since then I have experienced a wide variety of harassment. I am sad to say that i hear more negative things about what I am saying because the only people who care are the ones it exposes. I definitely believe that in addition to the sockpuppets and sicko's who enjoy upsetting people is a braintrust who's mission is to subvert and guide the curious down the rabbit hole. In the genre of the mysterious or strange there are certain subjects if not addressed result in you being soundly and wholly ignored. Try telling the truth w/ rational evidence and see where it gets you.

But we still have to do it. Have to tell the truth. Have to write about it. Research it. Put it up somewhere, where, hopefully, someday, the right person or people will see it. i think, in time, a lot of the things that are now languishing in the darkness that reveal truths, will receive their just due and attention. We just have to continue to do what we have come here to do. Be the source of light in our environment, even when all around us is dark.


This is not news...but what WAS a novel idea (put forth by Bucky and others) to me at that time was that even the most obnoxious, argumentative, disruptive members of the group made a valuable contribution for being the grain of sand around which the pearl of wisdom, truth, right-actions could be formed. Great ideas seem to have to push against resistance to be worth birthing.

And that is all well and good and I try to participate here and appreciate all others who do the same. We have to encourage a rigorous atmosphere of debate and a high level of conversation and even challenge to remain relevant and on the cutting-edge. PA for the most part does that. It is good to remain mindful though and to keep in mind that not all who are arguing are doing so from this same understanding or motivation.


I noticed that embracing this idea tends to diffuse the power that disruptive-argumentative people tend to draw to themselves and put it back in the hands of people trying to accomplish something positive, and supports the idea that there is a real and benevolent PLAN even behind the existence and actions of apparent 'evil-doers', or even the negativity or disinterest of normally responsibly responsive folks

Indeed. Well said. And this is why Truth will win out, at this point in the cycle and spiral of time and space. Because it is, indeed, Time. They are doomed to failure but they must try and we must remain vigilant. ;)


Excellent summary, Rahkyt. Many thanks.

To it, I might add from my own personal experience, the biggest “tell” for most beginner disinfos is checking out their comment trail or posting history:

• They always seem to be the “skeptic”, the neinzugger or naysayer. But if you look at it all – they’re the skeptic about everything on the site. In other words: Why are they here if they disbelieve everything that’s said here? Why haven’t you moved on? Why are you wasting your time on this site? But no – they have a job to do. A “normal” skeptic would have shrugged, laughed, and moved on long ago. Why are they still here?

• They always dis other people’s ideas; but they never seem to put forward a proposal of their own or an alternative hypothesis. Their only purpose seems to be to discredit others, not to learn or discuss.

• They frequently use outright ridicule and mockery to discredit the original poster “Hah! Hah! You believe that!!?? That’s wacko!!” etc.

• They attempt to divide the audience and attempt to enlist others: “I’m not gonna listen to this stupid sh*t and I’m leaving this forum! Who’s coming with me..?” etc.

• They rely on emotion rather than logic. See above.

Granted, these are only the amateurs. Higher levels of infiltration follow. The “Mr. Nice Guys”, the “Gypsy Moths”, the “Lost Souls” etc.

But yeah: they’re all here, too. It’s their job.

Good awareness, Rahkyt.

Thank you Selene. What you wrote above was so important. Great observations! I am curious about the Gypsy Moths, what are they? Do they fly into the flames? Your other terms are interesting too, I've never heard of them before.


I've personally had a couple of experiences here where I have been the skeptic, and was fully aware at the time that there were people who would suspect me of being such a disinfo type. It gave me an unpleasant feeling, and I would just like to add this point:

There is a problem here of being cowed in what we express, and that problem takes several forms. This thread makes me consider the possibility that one of those inhibitions may be the fear of being thought a disinfo agent if one goes against the grain or argues against something that everyone else seems to believe.

This comment is very important and is the primary reason why I upped this thread again. I think recent events here have made many feel paranoid, perhaps even myself, a bit. I believe Avalon remains, at heart, what I first thought it to be when I sent in my 'application form', and so I remain here and participating as I have come to appreciate the diverse range of opinions and voices.

I also think that true Disinfo agents do follow a certain pattern and so it is possible to differentiate between people who are just 'going against the grain', for whatever reason.


I've only now had the full realisation (perhaps I was being naive) that much of the apparently petty argument, outrage and so forth - that has been seen in recent events and in other episodes - may well be paranoia based. There is often a touchiness that seems at odds with the spirit of the forum, and some of it may stem from a fear of being suspected of something nefarious.

I'm not certain. In my experience, those who feel that they might be suspected of something shut their mouths. Do not respond, stop participating so much, begin writing in more neutral and conciliatory tones. Those who continue with their disagreement often feel very strongly about the topic or they have other motivations. Fear leads to a host of responses, often anger or conciliation are the most apparent, if the fearful individuals even continue interacting, which seems belligerent, but can generally be parsed to determine the emotive base-line.


I have looked at other 'similar' forums, and without bothering to name names they are, by and large, zoos. I think this one is highly likely to harbour disinfo people as it is a rather more civilised place, and seems likely to remain so whatever upheavals and episodes may occur from time to time. I suppose that makes it more irksome to those that place such people in forums.

Heheh. I bet. But since it is so important for them to achieve success, it only adds to their determination to cause a ruckus. Plucking at peoples emotional strings is the best way to go about it anywhere, but it must be especially gratifying for it to work in a place where those who participate consider themselves to generally be beyond such.


So I'm glad to see this subject addressed in an intelligent way, because yes, it's something I think about too - when I read posts and when I post myself. The worst thing that could happen is for them to manage to install a climate of paranoia and suspicion here. Looking at the problem with a clear mind rather than the pitchfork wielding mentality is obviously the most constructive way, and thank you, Rahkyt.

My feeling is that we should be mindful of the problem of planted disinfo agents, but not paranoid. That way our minds are not clouded by the dark side (your profile pic is influencing my language, clearly!), and we also feel free to disagree and disbelieve if we genuinely feel that way.

Borden.

Thank you, Borden, for your salient contribution. A witch hunt is the last thing we need and I don't think that such would work here if initiated by membership. If Adminstration fell prey to such it might be a different story altogether. But let us continue to seek the highest potentiality by ascribing the best intentions to all involved parties until evidence shows otherwise.


I for one will continue to politely disagree if I see something questionable. When you get right down to it many of the things we are presented with must be believed as a matter of faith as there is often little physical evidence to prove many of our claims. Something about the character or facts involved serves to convince us or make us skeptical. I think we should simply forget about all of this an continue along. If people are here trying subvert things then there is nothing you can do about it. Going around and mistreating or ignoring people you suspect of being disinformation agents is just not right either. You are throwing darts hoping for a bullseye and in the process you will end up ostracizing someone who doesn't deserve it. We do not want to turn PA into the Lord of the Flies here.

Hence my comment, 'treat them with a long handled spoon'. Do not confront, do not blame, do not accuse. Keep it moving, give them their space and let them dig their own graves. It always happens. Thank goodness. :)

Um, and who do you think Piggy is in this scenario of yours?! LOL

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd30/rahkyt/lord-of-the-flies_8088.jpg

[RMorgan]

Really nice thread, my friend.

However, I believe the real disinfo agents are those who are in the position of influencing many people at once, like those many prominent characters of the so called alternative media.

It´s much easier to train a few agents to approach such characters, claiming they are credible whistle blowers/sources, gain their trust and then spread fake info trough them.

Paying hundreds of nerds to visit forums like this to spread disinfo is just not practical.

Anyway, the alternative media is managing pretty well to discredit itself, in many ways.

Maybe, it´s all a mix of these three things:

-Fake sources spreading disinfo trough famous alternative media´s main characters.
-Alternative media destroying its own reputation with unfounded conspiracy theories and lack of discernment and organization.
-Planted nerds to control and spread disinfo on the most important forums.

Anyway, we also must have discernment. It´s normal to have people that don´t agree with our own point of view. This, of course, doesn´t mean they are disinfo agents hired by the government.

It´s my 2 cents on this subject.

Cheers,

Raf.

[RMorgan]

There´s also another fundamental factor about the alternative media, which is an extreme disadvantage over the mainstream media.

The mainstream media is a complex network of highly capable and organized corporations, with lots of resources and technically good professionals.

The alternative media, which is an inaccurate term to designate information sources that offer different points of view over worldwide important subjects, is made by both very professional investigative websites, very professional forums like PA, but, it´s also made by hundreds of websites and blogs made by complete delusional and mentally ill individuals.

There are established websites of people claiming they are aliens, like the Zeta Talk, as an example, and there are highly naive persons to believe and spread such sites.

This is a serious problem, agree?

You probably know how hard it is to build a reputation, and how easy it is to lose it.

So, how the alternative media is supposed to have a good and solid reputation, if it´s also composed by many (I know many of you hate this word) ridicule websites and blogs as well.

Nowadays, the alternative media scenario is just a mess, a mix of good, investigative,solid journalism and fanciful sci-fi stories.

That´s why I think that maybe TPTB don´t even need to spend much resources on discrediting it.

Cheers,

Raf.

[Mark]

Really nice thread, my friend.

However, I believe the real disinfo agents are those who are in the position of influencing many people at once, like those many prominent characters of the so called alternative media.

It´s much easier to train a few agents to approach such characters, claiming they are credible whistle blowers/sources, gain their trust and then spread fake info trough them.

Very true.


Paying hundreds of nerds to visit forums like this to spread disinfo is just not practical.

I would beg to differ. It actually wouldn't take that many people to do so. Also, intelligence is a booming field that is quite large in the United States. I'm sure it is the same in other countries. The government is where most of the jobs are. Jobs that you can actually retire from, at least.


-Fake sources spreading disinfo trough famous alternative media´s main characters.
-Alternative media destroying its own reputation with unfounded conspiracy theories and lack of discernment and organization.
-Planted nerds to control and spread disinfo on the most important forums.

I agree that all of these are part of the issue.


There´s also another fundamental factor about the alternative media, which is an extreme disadvantage over the mainstream media.

The mainstream media is a complex network of highly capable and organized corporations, with lots of resources and technically good professionals.

The alternative media, which is an inaccurate term to designate information sources that offer different points of view over worldwide important subjects, is made by both very professional investigative websites, very professional forums like PA, but, it´s also made by hundreds of websites and blogs made by complete delusional and mentally ill individuals.

An interesting conceptual formulation, considering all. Mental illness being defined by society, its very existence as a psychological reality having accompanied the coalescence of hierarchical dominance and control paradigms in the West, dismissing such within this space smacks of the type of marginalization and crass generalization that is problematic in the first instance.


This is a serious problem, agree?

No, I do not agree.


You probably know how hard it is to build a reputation, and how easy it is to lose it.

So, how the alternative media is supposed to have a good and solid reputation, if it´s also composed by many (I know many of you hate this word) ridicule websites and blogs as well.

Nowadays, the alternative media scenario is just a mess, a mix of good, investigative,solid journalism and fanciful sci-fi stories.

That´s why I think that maybe TPTB don´t even need to spend much resources on discrediting it.

Perhaps you are correct, perhaps not. Considering that the money is created out of thin air, the PTW can spend it however they please, if they run short, they can make some more. And, what we think of as being a waste of time is probably a useful front, masking what may be of intense interest to them. Thank you for sharing your opinion on this important topic.