Parasitic gods

[DNA]

When we look at the ancient sage of old who seekes enlightenment in a cave in the mountains, it wasn't that the cave has any inherently enlightening qualities, it is that society must be escaped for a while in order for it to be purged.




(http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=34272&d=1474998179)










Parasitic Gods











The Fourth Dimension


As far as we humans are concerned, there are
dimensions above and beyond our normal ability to
perceive.
Organic life as the human race knows it, is locked
within the confines of the third dimension.


As we develop our senses we may perceive that there is
more than the three-dimensional life we are used to.
Life can exist above and beyond the normal three
dimensional space we are used to perceiving. There are
atleast 11 dimensions that beings may exist in. The
after life we associate with heaven, would be the
fifth dimension and above.


Parasitic beings live in what could be termed a fourth
dimension, a place that does not sustain life easily,
and that does not offer the strong connection to
source that we enjoy here in the third dimension.
Enlightened, more capable and self sustaining beings,
live in the fifth dimension and above.


Communication with the fifth dimensional and above
beings is possible, and encouraged, for here we find
beings with enlightening energy and healing power.
But unfortunately the aspiring mutant/psychic as he
parts his way with the dogmas of peers and social
framework, he is then forced to deal with the
onslaught of entities that hunger for his developing
life force.
This makes initial contact with higher entities
sometimes difficult, and very difficult when trying to
discern perception and imagination.


Discussion of non-organic parasites can be found all
over the web, the commonality I’ve run into so far is
a tendency to focus on the small-scale parasites. When
humans do not make it to the fifth dimension for one
reason or another they are trapped in the third and
fourth dimensions and become parasites. Humans who are
without bodies and refuse for one reason or another to
pass into the fifth dimension are discussed in detail.


Thus dominating discussion groups (and for good
reason).


The scope and magnitude of life in the fourth
dimension can only be speculated on.
The common thought on the fourth dimension is that it
is home to those who wish to circumvent the natural order of reincarnation.
The fourth dimension is probably not affected by time and space, as such, with
no gravity, it is pervasive to all space time as we
know it, as such, all planets capable of sustaining
life probably have some contribution to it, as such I
suspect it is as varied and vast as can be imagined,
and once a global acknowledgement is made, and humans
venture to asses it, it will create our scientific
equivalent of botanists, marine biologists,
microbiologists, ecologists and a new field will
emerge non-organic biology.
I feel there is obvious difficulty in acknowledgement
of this, and I will get into this further.


Social Dictation and Control


I’m going to be politically critical here without
being political biased in any way what so ever.
How am I going to do that?
By blaming all Governments on earth equally, and
accepting none as right and all as wrong.
Governments may start off with the best of intentions,
but regardless of the initial ideal, they invariably
take on a life of their own (literally).


I am going to include religion in my generalization
as well, for, it is usually the initial social
dictation/control and the more pervasive.
Government has changed hands from priest to king
cyclically all through recorded time so I will not
address politics and religion separately but instead
include both under the same heading of government.


Blocks of Group Think who oppose and kill one another



Groupthink is an interesting phenomenon that kills
individual reasoning and personal ethical application.
It is amazing to me the commonality of group think,
the repeated insidious deeds that have been
perpetuated by those within it’s grasp who later claim
innocence of their actions as they were compelled by
the group’s desires or insecurities.
We see instances of this in small applications like
mob violence and we see large applications of this in
World War II with the genocide attacks of the Nazi
group think/government attacking the Jewish group
think/government and the Japanese group
think/government attacking the Chinese group
think/government.
I think that the largest cases of group think are that
of Governments, and when we see the movement and
decisions of such governments, they sometimes
historically make little sense, other than the
annihilation of another large body of group think.
The winner historically speaking gets to assimilate
the opposing culture, and, when we look through
history, no conquest with empirical intent was ever
truly successful unless the opposing group think was
assimilated or completely destroyed.


When I look at World War II one of the strangest out
comes to me are the alliances that formed afterward.
Why is the U.S. on completely good terms with Japan
and Germany, and yet not on such good terms with
France, Russia, The Middle East and China?



War, Peace and Mistrust


When I look at Japan and Germany, I see the complete
annihilation of their pre-World War II group think.
The contemporary Japanese and German way of group
think/government is diametrically opposed with their
World War II counterparts and in most cases shame is
expressed regarding the actions of their ancestors
who’s group think/government of yester year has been
completely atomized and replaced by the contemporary
western group think/government, and more accurately
still the U. S. group think/government.


This can be contrasted for instance with Russia, our
ally in world war II who retained their group think
and considered the U.S. group think such a threat,
both countries entered into an elongated period of
hatred and contempt who’s eruption was only kept in
check by the threat of complete annihilation of both
sides.
Western/group think bombarded the Russian group/think
with the idea of a superior life style, the
encroachment of U.S. group think saturated the
Russia/group think with an unprecedented non-violent
conquering, a non-confrontaitonal bombardment of media
established material richness and ideals.


In this instance, the major hinge was economical.


France continues to hold a disdain for the U.S., in
an attempt to hold her identity and personal
groupthink. Though similar enough in economy and
religion, the hinges in these opposing groupthinks,
seem to be the emphasis on the French sensual/language
rather than the material/power of the U.S.


Group Think/Government, a Life Form?


I don’t think the Nazi group think is dead, rather, it
has just lost it’s foot hold in our dimension as of
now, neither do I think the Japanese
Samurai,Shinto/group think is gone, rather, it too has
lost it’s foot hold.
Why do these group-think/governments carry out actions
that are so extreme and usually detrimental to the
majority of the individuals within its population?
It seems the answer is so it can expand the population
and territory of its group think/government, but why
would the individuals within any country or population
want to do this?



Skyscraper Entities



When we examine Great Britian’s middle age history,
it is easy to be misled by the magesty of the crown,
the royal head of order, the King/Queen. Further
examination gives a perspective of constant
competition between the different Royal Houses, which
were the true seats of soldier manpower, these
struggles would decide who would be at the head of
government and hold the King/Queen title.
When looking at the likelihood of a world/earth third
dimension devouring fourth dimension dwelling
parasite, I fell into the habit of the figurehead
template, wondering who was the King/Queen parasite.
The constant warring and competition of group
think/governments leads me to now think other wise.


I have formed a middle ages British royal houses view
of the matter akin to the political maneuvering that
took place in “The war of the roses” era 16th and 17th
centuries.
As an initial template, lets take the idea of 16th
century royal houses and look at the political
landscape of World War II. Let’s look at the different
countries and their political/religious governments as
entities, gigantic entities.





The Royal Houses Of Joint Tenant Manifestation





1. Germany/Nazi Group think (Parasite Superman)
2. Japan/Shinto-Samurai Group think (Parasite Samurai)
3. Jewish/Non-Assimilation-Religious Group Think
(Parasite Chosen Race)
4. U.S/Capitalistic-Christian Group Think (Parasite
Invisible Hand)
5. Britian/Capitolistic-Chrisitian Group Think
(Parasite Invisible Hand)
6. Russia/Communist-Atheist Group Think (Parasite
Utopia)
7. China/Isolationist-Ancestor Worship Group Think
(Parasite Family Entity)
8. Middle East /Islam Group Think (Parasite Allah)





When looking at these specific groupthinks, I see
entities on a grand scale.
If an ant were crawling on the enormity of a
skyscraper, he may be oblivious to the over all
structure of the skyscraper, even if he had the
intelligence and curiosity comparable to a human.


But, given enough time, the inquisitive ant may circle
and traverse the building enough times, that he gets
the idea of what the structure may look like, even
though, it is beyond his perception to ever take in a
very large portion of the structure much less the
whole monstrosity.
In this case, the skyscraper is made of ants, and they
are held together by an invisible force they are not
aware of, and who, by the way, takes painful care in
making sure his/it’s identity is never revealed.
The more ants that give away their autonomy to
contribute as building materials for the skyscraper,
the more powerfull the invisible force gets who binds them
together.



This Group Think, Royal House idea of looking at
Government Parasites, has led me to coin a phrase The
Joint Tenants.




The Joint Tenants


I don’t look at the Joint Tenants as Gods in the
human looking physical idea of what the polytheistic
pantheons of religions past have portrayed.
The Joint Tenants dwell in the fourth Dimension, and
in my mind, I see whale like ethereal entities with
multitudes of tentacles they are able to distribute
invisibly through out our dimension.
I believe the tentacles themselves have
awareness/intelligence, and are capable of projecting
specific maneuvers on the individual or individuals
they have in their custody.


Social status, accumulation of wealth, proper uniform,
living standards, these are but a few methods the
Joint Tenants employ to displace our autonomy and
coerce our participation in paying attention.


I believe the Joint Tenants to be of the same race,
i.e. I believe they have the same origination, but of
course, I am only speculating on this as just about
everything else I have said so far.



Contemporary Conflict Examples


I mentioned some parasite entities in the World War
II era. I would like to build on that.



Parasite Invisible Hand VS Parasite Allah
(The modern day crusade)
The Western conflicts with the Middle East almost all
stem from the Parasite Invisible Hand -Joint Tenant
who felt compelled to control the land where his Joint
Tenant birth took place in the third dimension, Israel
or Palestine.


Parasite Invisible Hand has had a desire to show
superiority over Parasite Allah for about fifteen
hundred years in the form of various Crusades, to
control a piece of land highly valued in it’s
association to human psyche and religious birth.
The successful introduction of capitalism into The
Chosen People Parasite (Israel) has caused an
acknowledged bond that links the two distinctly
separate individual Joint Tenants into mutually
beneficial cooperating entities.
The Invisible Hand Parasite (U.S./Great Britian) chose
then to subjugate the Palestinian people within the
Allah Parasite on the land of its birth into this
dimension, Israel.
The Invisible Hand did this through a tricky maneuver
he felt would leave him without confrontation by
placing The Chosen People Parasite into position to do
the subjugation for him.
This did not work out as planned, for the humans known
as Palestinians have held fastly to their connection
to the Allah Parasite and have refused to be
assimilated into The Chosen People/Invisible Hand
Parasite.
This has proved to be a rallying point to all the
peoples across the Middle East who are Allah Parasite
devotees.



A Common Bond
The Allah Parasite Joint Tenant has conditioned his
followers to resist assimilation at all costs, and
that death would be preferable, in the forced event of
a rival, Joint Tenant, forcing assimilation upon the
masses.
The Invisible Hand Parasite culture has been forbidden
to the Allah Parasite Joint Tenant people, especially
the projected mind control methods of TV and movie
theatres that were so successful in assimilating the Parasite
Utopia Joint Tenant (Russia) people.


Television and movies are masterful techniques
employed by The Invisible Hand Parasite at persuading
the young to forsake the Allah Parasite Joint Tenant
connection, if the young were allowed to partake of
this it would probably work for the U.S.-Great
Britian/Group as an effective reeducation tool, as it
was used on The Parasite Utopia Joint Tenant (Russia).


The Allah parasite has conditioned its followers to
the dangers of television and movies all but outlawing
them within the culture Islam in the Middle East.


This succusful blockading of the non-confrontational
conversion tool has been a useful tactic for the Allah
Parasite. So useful in fact that the The Invisible
Hand Parasite has grown weary of the defense tactics
employed by the Allah Parasite and placed human
military bases in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and now Iraq
for operation subjugation all through the Middle East.


Ossama Bin Laden, a favorite mouth piece for the Allah
Parasite has stated in a interview two years before
the attack on the twin towers that an offensive would
be taken if the U.S. Invisible Hand Parasite didn’t
remove it’s military bases from then Saudi Arabia and
Kuwait. The attack on the twin towers orchestrated by
Ossama Bin Laden and the Allah Parasite were voiced
objections to the military bases in the Middle East.
The Invisible Hand Parasite of the United States and
Great Britain has responded by attacking two large
sections of The Allah Parasite’s kingdom, Afghanistan
and now Iraq and is attempting to institute capitalism
and democracy which of course are the precursors to
the Invisible Hand Parasite extending it’s influence
and bringing the Middle East under it’s power and
rule.
The actions the Invisible Hand Parasite take against
the Allah Parasite, are taken as threatening by the
remaining Joint Tenants of the fourth dimensionaly
ruled third dimensional earth. This is especially
threatening to those that survive by isolationism and
defense only, as the China Parasite and the North
Korean Parasite do.


This Joint Tenant war that is now being fought can
only result in the complete removal of one of the
rivals from the third dimension and the subjugation of
it’s peoples, much like the end result of World War II
and the defeat of Japan’s Samurai Parasite and
Germany’s Superman Parasite.


2012-The Mayan End of Time


Much has been said about the end of the known world
as stated by the Mayan Calender. I would like to
propose a theory to this as well. What if the end of
the known world, is the end of Joint Tenant
skirmishing on our planet. What if by the end of 2012,
the world is united under one Joint Tenant.
It seems very possible to me, that the U.S. and
Britian are poised to militarily defeat the defensive
Joint Tenants of the world. It also seems very
possible to me, that the U.S. and Brittish Invisible
Hand Parasite, could succusfully convert the rest of
the worlds Joint Tenants through non-combative means
as demonstrated against the Utopia Parasite (Russia).
This brings to mind the much-used poem from J.R.R.
Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings Trilogy.


One Ring to rule them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to bring them all
And in the darkness bind them



The possible result could be an era of incredible
peace and continuing progress. It is my guess, that
the present format of skirmishing Joint Tenants, is
non-conducive for economy of parasitisisim. As such,
if this is the case, human beings may partake in a new
era of increased energy and vitality, ushered forth
through the new never before seen single Joint Tenant
subjucation of planet earth. Human beings may be
mutated new to the parameters seen fit by the new
ruling body.
Another possible result, could be a new and greater
taxation by the governering body. The new Joint Tenant
could drain his subjects dry without a body of politic
to compete with in terms of attractiveness. Thus
creating a weaker more timid human race, less capable
of transgressing the issued commands set in motion by
the one great ruler of earth, the Joint Tenant
Supreme.
And yet still another possibility could be, a
personal mission set forth by the Joint Tenant in
question. A benign Joint Tenant may mission to rid the
earth of all other joint tenants, and then, to
suddenly give the earth over to humanity, parasite
free. This may then usher in an era, so incredible, so
outlandish, as to not be comprehended by our minds. A
gift from higher dimensial beings, such as forgiveness
and entry to higher dimensions could be the reason for
this altruistic mission by said Joint Tenant.



Third Dimensional Entry by Fourth Dimensional Joint
Tenants


The Tibetan Buddhists have defined a term for a newly
created entity.
The term is “tulpa”.
Tulpa’s are self-aware beings that are supposedly
created by a group of people agreeing and gathering
their energies together in a concentrated effort.
I personally would venture to guess that what was
thought to be created was actually a fourth
dimensional appendage seeking a foothold for the
greater entity.
I would venture that this is how most Joint Tenants
find their way into the third dimension, and that
regardless of how altruistic or mystical the initiator
of a belief system or government is, it will always be
tainted by the appendages of The Joint Tenants who
find a way into this Governing body and as such
project it’s own group think into the masses under
it’s influence.
Joint Tenants must always it would seem, fight their
way into our dimension, and when I mean fight, I mean
fight the other Joint Tenants who are already in power
subjugating humans.
The Christian Joint Tenant had a difficult time to say
the least, entering the abode of The Chosen People
Joint Tenant, and then, after successful entry, it
sprang forth to spread and convert and steal followers
from the reigning Joint Tenant of the day The
Empire-Roman Parasite.


It seems to me that these Joint Parasites, once
familiar with our ways, if forced to give up their
third dimensional earth footing, may attempt comebacks
at a later date.
I don’t think the fourth dimension has time, as we
know it. As such, it seems to me that the attempt at
world domination by the Superman Parasite may have in
fact been an attempt by The Empire Roman Parasite to
regain entry and authority over earth domain.


H.P. Lovecraft created a style of writing that
revolved around a mythos of dark God like entities,
that were malign to man kind, and for the most part,
were in a state of non-physical non-corporal being,
just out of our touch, just beyond our dimension of
being, but that they were always looking for ways back
in, and that they were crafty at doing so, gaining the
help of strange cults and groups that would perform
certain rights that would help their entry into our
material domain.
Lovecraft even had a poem, which illustrates their
non-life non-death duality as well as timelessness.


“That which never dies,
But forever lies
And with strange eons,
Even death may die.”



So now that we have acknowledged a possible, horrible
situation, how do we fight a Prison Warden that holds
all the keys of ego and is omniscient of our desire
and actions towards autonomy?




Voices of Reason


There are no religions that can help you here.
Apparently the most important thing you can do is
realize any attempt at personal liberation has to be
just that, personal.
The combination lock to your brain and ego are so
complex, that no two are made the same, as such, it
would be futile to think any one way, or one person
can tell you how to do it and set you scurrying off
into the cosmos with one application.
Time, diligence, isolation and synchronicity all play
a significant role in your ability to embody your
autonomous non-bound self.
Just as the aspiring psychic/mutant will perceive the
fourth dimension and suffer the draining consequences,
so to will the individual with diligence learn to
contact higher beings above the fourth dimension who
can offer you energy imbuing parasite removing help,
but, you must do most of the work yourself, and
getting to the point of talking with these empowered
evolved beings is no easy task either.
I would suggest listening to your intuition on what
area or path to begin pursuing, and try to allow for
synchronicities to lead you along your path and direct
you.
Reading of course is a great start, and exercise
cannot be valued enough, diet is a great place to put
emphasis as well.
It is always important to follow your personal sense
of right and wrong; far to often we supplant social
rules for our own innate sense of right and wrong.
Following a personal moral road and projecting truth
can do loads of good for your development as well as
make a wonderful invitation for those higher beings to
make appearances on the road of your liberation.


I have always thought that a stance of strength would
give me a better chance at battling these parasites,
through the exercise of will and a sense of
superiority over my fellow man.
I don’t think that anymore, I have lately felt the
importance of developing the heart energy vortex area
of my energy body, through this, I have been able to
receive small quiet upper dimension instruction, as
well as a permeating sense of right and wrong. I have
even come to the point where I look at the Parasitic
Joint Tenants as teachers, and valuable lesson givers.


The area of my body where this development
has taken place is my spinal chord in conjunction with
where my solar plexus and middle chest would be. I
have coined a name for this area recently “The reality
Rose” I have even written a short ditty about it, try
not to laugh to hard at my rhyme ability.


The Reality Rose
A thousand Gods
Let me know I’ve had a thousand lives
My skepticism grows
My thoughts won’t die
The truth won’t lie


The reality rose is thirsty like Kali
Hungry for brains the pragmatic Deva
Insect like thoughts
Feed on your light
Defending the enemy
Losing the fight


The reality rose
The mind is a buoy
Floating on waves
Frequencies go through me


The reality rose
Knows my strength and diseases
Habit and status
Pride that deceives us


The reality rose
Resides in your heart
A connection to landscape
Telegraph and receiver
A connection to vibrations
Exposing deceivers


Comfort in darkness
In depths of abyss
The shadow of evil
Doesn’t exist



Forsaking Government


There are samples of solitary people, sages,
practitioners of personal autonomy in all government
controlled population groups. These individuals
chastise the government group they had previously
belonged to, extol the virtues of individuality and
describe a state of simple contentedness and reception
of knowledge that can be reached by all.
The key in these instances is not the knowledge
written down or passed on verbally, but the sacrifice
that has to be taken.
That sacrifice that has to be taken is the forsaking
of government and microcosmic reinforcements of it in
your personal relationships.
We see examples of this in Lau Tzu, John the Baptist and
Henry David Thorough and we read about the miraculous knowledge
and perspective gained from their solitude, what we
don’t read about, are the scared insecure individuals
who knew not what the return was to be on their
investment for forsaking friends, relatives and
ambition.
Jesus and Buddha both had manifesting Government
Parasitic Entities that made personal appearances when they
were on the doorstep of autonomy, through their
elongated personal periods of solitary introspection.
Should we move into a cave, journey into the
wilderness or roam the world aimlessly? Not
necessarily, but it wouldn’t hurt.
Steps for personal liberation would include but are
not limited to.


Allowing yourself to be single
Working in a solitary environment
Living by yourself
Eliminating television from your existence
Exercising
Living quarters insulated against sound and activity
Public Transportation Participation






Activity Oriented Disciplines



There are groups that focus on activities rather than
doctrine, and the individuals you interact with will
be the input you should base your decisions on rather
than the associated exotic claims of the group label,
exercise caution. A few are


Tai Chi
Taoism
Cabbalism
Karma Yoga
Jnana Yoga
Hinduism
Internal Alchemy
Tantric Kundalini Yoga
Gnosticism




A few examples in Music/Movies


I think we humans know what is going on, atleast on
some level. I see quite a few analogies in movies and
music. In the movie monsters inc. we have just such an
example, we have entities that travel to our dimension
and steal energy from human children so they can run
their own city (fourth dimension) where they
apparently don’t have enough energy to run on their
own. The movie “The Matrix” is fairly obvious, but not
enough attention is given to the fact that the
machines live in a separate dimension than the humans,
and must send the agents, (tentacles) to do their
bidding. The movie “Dark City” is another example of
this. Roger Water’s “The Wall” has been used for
repeated attempts at analogy, but I think you can take
it quite literally, as he fears becoming another brick
in the Joint Tenant parasite/wall and he talks about
the indoctrination he receives as a child all the way
through to adult hood, and how, even in the end, when
he refuses participation the worm (joint tenant
tentacle) passes judgment on him.

[Davidallany]

The old man has better be kissing his grandson out of affection, in the photo. Or else his mom is coming.

[modwiz]

The old man has better be kissing his grandson out of affection, in the photo. Or else his mom is coming.

I believe that picture is of Kronos/Chronos or Time eating one of his children. Although in myth he simply swallowed them whole. Zeus' mother gave Kronos a stone instead of the child (Zeus) and that caused him to regurgitate the other siblings. These formed the nucleus of the Olympian gods. Kronos was a Titan. Gaia is considered a Titan as well in the Greek Mythos.

[Davidallany]

Zeus' mother gave Kronos a stone instead of the child (Zeus) and that caused him to regurgitate the other siblings

Great, many thanks to his mom.

[TraineeHuman]

DNA, have you actually had direct experience with any of the Gods? I don't mean with any fourth-dimensional nasty entities. My understanding is that all those nasties have been banned ever since three to five thousand years ago from having any contact with physical humans, except that they are permitted to try and influence human minds in certain very limited ways. In my experience, such beings collectively constitute "Satan", or "the archons".

The real Gods I happen to have had direct experience of all came from the sixth dimension or higher. They were all benevolent. Also, they were all human. They weren't some other species called "the Annunaki" at all. That's one reason I know for a fact that the Sumerian creation myth isn't literally true. This is why I would stress the importance of having direct, real experience rather than relying on myth. Not to mention jumping to false or paranoid conclusions.

I do suspect, though, that there are two groups, and that "the Titans" may all be nasties. They seem to include demigods such as Neptune and Zeus. These all seem to be very much in jail, very much bound in chains and "energy (or whatever)" walls which they can't penetrate. That's why they need black magic rituals for them to even be able to communicate with humans at all. And the effectiveness of those rituals is, I believe, slowly growing weaker over time, because these beings are forced to use personalities (which are electromagnetic fields) that are thousands of years old. But like all personalities, these decay over time, eventually burning up in parts.

[DNA]

DNA, have you actually had direct experience with any of the Gods? I don't mean with any fourth-dimensional nasty entities. My understanding is that all those nasties have been banned for over five thousand years from having any contact with physical humans, except that they are permitted to try and influence human minds in certain very limited ways. In my experience, such beings collectively constitute "Satan", or "the archons".

The real Gods I happen to have had direct experience of all came from the sixth dimension or higher. They were all benevolent. Also, they were all human. They weren't some other species called "the Annunaki" at all. That's one reason I know for a fact that the Sumerian creation myth isn't literally true. This is why I would stress the importance of having direct, real experience rather than relying on myth.

I do suspect, though, that there are two groups, and that "the Titans" may all be nasties. They seem to include demigods such as Neptune and Zeus. These all seem to be very much in jail, very much bound in chains and "energy (or whatever)" walls which they can't penetrate. That's why they need black magic rituals for them to even be able to communicate with humans at all. And the effectiveness of those rituals is, I believe, weaker, because these beings are forced to use personalities (which are electromagnetic fields) that are thousands of years old. But like all personalities, these decay over time, eventually burning up in parts.

I admit the title is a little grandoise, I was just trying to get the point across that social institutions can take on a life of their own.
Government, Religion, Cults, these things when focused on enough by participants begin to glow with a form and embodiment of sorts, and it is my opinion that entities in the fourth dimension take advantage of these social conforming bodies and slip into them like a tailor made suit.

I think different entities sit and wait in the fourth dimension until certain populations are ripe with a particular group think, and then they have an entry into this world.

I think the Roman Empire had a particular entity that thought it's hold in this dimension could not be overthrown, I would contend that it made a come back in Nazi Germany and would have again had hold in our world had Nazi Germany won the war and been allowed to project their group think on the world.

These are the things I think Lao Tzu was trying to say as well as Henry David Thorugh and John The Baptist. It is the reason many a sage seeks the solitude of the cave in the wilderness in order to further his quest.

This is all speculation on my part, and any one part of what I'm saying is nothing I am married to.

[modwiz]

DNA, have you actually had direct experience with any of the Gods? I don't mean with any fourth-dimensional nasty entities. My understanding is that all those nasties have been banned ever since three to five thousand years ago from having any contact with physical humans, except that they are permitted to try and influence human minds in certain very limited ways. In my experience, such beings collectively constitute "Satan", or "the archons".

The real Gods I happen to have had direct experience of all came from the sixth dimension or higher. They were all benevolent. Also, they were all human. They weren't some other species called "the Annunaki" at all. That's one reason I know for a fact that the Sumerian creation myth isn't literally true. This is why I would stress the importance of having direct, real experience rather than relying on myth. Not to mention jumping to false or paranoid conclusions.

I do suspect, though, that there are two groups, and that "the Titans" may all be nasties. They seem to include demigods such as Neptune and Zeus. These all seem to be very much in jail, very much bound in chains and "energy (or whatever)" walls which they can't penetrate. That's why they need black magic rituals for them to even be able to communicate with humans at all. And the effectiveness of those rituals is, I believe, slowly growing weaker over time, because these beings are forced to use personalities (which are electromagnetic fields) that are thousands of years old. But like all personalities, these decay over time, eventually burning up in parts.

Ok, time for a metaphysician to clear up a thing or two. Titans were the older pre-Olympian gods. Kronus and Rhea were the parents of these gods. Kronos swallowing these children as they were born led to the rebellion and overthrow.
The Titans represent the more primitive archetypal aspects of the understanding of the world and the Olympians correspond with the development of the Greek city-states and the rise of democracy as a concept.

Titans were led by Kronos and his wife Rhea. Kronos or Chronos is Time. Death became another aspect because, logically, to a human being time produces death. Atlas was a Titan as well as Gaia and Ouranous or Uranus. They were the original mother earth and father sky.

Now, there are also the Greek and Roman names for the same gods and in the above example of Neptune and Zeus, we have a conflation of the two. Zeus is Greek and corresponds to Jupiter in the Roman pantheon. Neptune is the Roman name for the Greek god Poseidon.

It was Zeus and Poseidon who overthrew the Titans and took over rule of the Earth. Zeus rules the sky and Poseidon the sea. Their brother Hades ( Roman Pluto) ruled the underworld.

The sheer number of gods can be confusing. Mixing Greek and Roman names makes keeping things straight even more challenging.

I hope this was helpful

[the trojan]

well written piece dna!

[the trojan]

DNA, have you actually had direct experience with any of the Gods? I don't mean with any fourth-dimensional nasty entities. My understanding is that all those nasties have been banned ever since three to five thousand years ago from having any contact with physical humans, except that they are permitted to try and influence human minds in certain very limited ways. In my experience, such beings collectively constitute "Satan", or "the archons".

The real Gods I happen to have had direct experience of all came from the sixth dimension or higher. They were all benevolent. Also, they were all human. They weren't some other species called "the Annunaki" at all. That's one reason I know for a fact that the Sumerian creation myth isn't literally true. This is why I would stress the importance of having direct, real experience rather than relying on myth. Not to mention jumping to false or paranoid conclusions.

I do suspect, though, that there are two groups, and that "the Titans" may all be nasties. They seem to include demigods such as Neptune and Zeus. These all seem to be very much in jail, very much bound in chains and "energy (or whatever)" walls which they can't penetrate. That's why they need black magic rituals for them to even be able to communicate with humans at all. And the effectiveness of those rituals is, I believe, slowly growing weaker over time, because these beings are forced to use personalities (which are electromagnetic fields) that are thousands of years old. But like all personalities, these decay over time, eventually burning up in parts.

go on share the ,'how to come into contact with the gods',method
Im not being funny or sarcastic or cheeky,
I am deadly serious.
and heres a message to everyone else on this forum......na thats got to be the thread to end all threads......(now that was me trying to be funny)

[DNA]

Hi Trojan
I hope you don't mind me giving my two cents on your question to TraineeHuman whom I hope will answer your question himself. :)

This is just a personal opinion, and it's not something anyone can really know so I hope I don't offend anyone's beliefs by stating this.


You see, I don't believe in any relgion. Nor do I believe in any God.
I do believe in the ancient astronaut theory. I do believe Zacharia Sitchen's take on the Sumerian Gods of old.
I believe the beings who came here served as a template for worship, and that physical humanoids with advanced technology let themselves be worshiped as Gods.
I believe that this is where we get the Sumerian Gods, the Egyptian Gods, The Greek Gods, The Norse Gods, but again, this is just my belief.
Now, here is the wierd part.
With millions of people taking part in the religion of worshiping said Gods, did all of this powerfull prayer energy end up going no-where?
Or was it taken advantage of, and used, embodied, reveled in?

I think all of this worshipfull energy was used, and took on a life of it's own.
And I don't think it had anyone's benefit in mind other than it's own.

This is why I would pause before entering into an old ceremony that worshiped the old gods.
This is why I would pause before reciting encantations in Greek in order to join a fraternity or secret society.

I do believe in Angelic Administraters of our cosmos and physical realm, but I hardly think they would want anyone worshiping them.
I have no problem with a Urantia template on how higher beings divide and administer their duties.

[TraineeHuman]

My response to The Trojan's question is that one of the Gods may contact you when and if they happen to choose to do so. The question is, do you have anything they would be interested in at all? (And of course they should not be worshipped. Maybe it's OK to ask them for advice or help -- but they probably won't bother to listen to you.)

But one thing I do know is that all the Gods I've communicated with were human. They had a history of being (apparently 3D) humans in the past. There are very few of them. They are the humans who made it to some certain supreme level of spiritual enlightenment -- which wasn't easy to do. That much I know.

All the stories about so-and-so being the parent or sibling or whatever of another God sound to me like stories made up by priests. Consider the politics of any high priest(ess)'s position. The more they can paint the God -- indeed, all the Gods -- as being unreliable or capricious or dangerous, the more their own power and significance increases. Because if the people can't trust the God, and the priest "informs" them that the current ten-year drought was caused by such-and-such God or Goddess, then the people are going to try hard to make the high priest do his darnedest. Whether the priest is Sumerian or ancient Greek or whatever, I consider it's ridiculous to believe them and take them at their word when their vested interest was so huge and their integrity so hugely, if not infinitely, inferior to that of any of the Gods. By the way, I'll bet there are huge inconsistencies between the Greek versus the Sumerian versus the Roman versions. And yet I was once directly shown that it was the same Gods in most cultures, just with different names.

It also makes much more sense to me that the galactic federation wouldn't permit any manipulation with human DNA except by beings who are human themselves.

[PurpleLama]

I agree substantially with your suppositions here, DNA. This is very similar to what I have observed, that being that when a religion, or cult, or whatever gets behind a system of belief that a sort of vortex of thought is formed which is far greater than what individuals can accomplish.

What you describe as fourth dimensional beings I see rather denizens of the inner planes, or time/sapace as opposed to space/time, if one prefers. Occasionally such vortices may temporarily become inhabited by higher density beings, but the windows of such inhabitation would be limited. Most of the time it would be normal human conscious energy energizing said vortices. Hence the "miracle" potentials not being a constant factor. This would be applicable in any organized religious scenario or at any holy places, statues, stones, shrines and such.

Like I said, I agree substantially with your ideas, but splitting hairs I sometimes cannot resist.

[Anno]

The three stars at the top left of the picture seem significant.

How come the fourth dimension is the way it is if the ones above it are so good?
And if we're lower then surely we'd be worse? We have plenty of our own incarnate parasites, just look at the way we treat eachother and our planet.

Having this 'bad' level between us and the good ones confuses me unless we're even worse.

[TraineeHuman]

Anno, let me offer an explanation of why the fourth dimension may seem more negative, in its most negative areas, than the third dimension, and yet it is still a higher level. What makes the third dimension different from the fourth dimension is this. The third dimension contains more restrictions. Most of these restrictions are known as “laws”. For instance, take the law of gravity. That simply doesn’t apply in the fourth dimension. (So in my experience, when people die they often spend parts of their first day enjoying the thrill of "flying".) Because certain laws such as gravity don't apply there, there is more freedom in the fourth dimension, and hence it is a higher dimension. There are a number of other laws that are unique to the third dimension, including the law of entropy and decay. (Some claim there are about 32 such laws.)

So, although the third dimension is a place of less freedom, that also means that negative forces are more restricted in the third dimension than in the fourth. Even though they cannot exist in so negative a form in the fourth as they can in the third, they can seem to be worse in the fourth because they are less restricted there.

By the way, one of the ways people can get misled regarding dimensions is the following. There is a basic esoteric teaching that “as above, so below”. But some people have ignorantly assumed that that also means “as below, so above”. Absolutely not, as all the esoteric schools taught (and as anybody can work out if they can think like a philosopher). Indeed, the whole reason why higher dimensions are higher is because “as below, so above” is not generally true.

[Anno]

That makes a lot of sense, Trainee, ty!

[PurpleLama]

There is much confusion in this third dimension, density, whaterver we want to call it. There are pattern repeating through all the distinct levels of density of vibration and what we *really are* exists at harmonic points all along the way, until you have gone from the most basic level that forms the very matter we are made of, through the levels of animal then human consciousness which then proceeds through fourth density, which is Christ consciousness then pure wisdom and then into what we would call unity consciousness where resides the higher self.

That being said, and this is just how I see it, if as above so below is in effect then the converse *must* be true, for in my estimation the whole point is to be in communication with these various levels of consciousness, and as below so above would be equally true, just a matter of which way ones perspective is oriented.

As I said, I see what is being referred to here as the fourth dimension as actually being an aspect of the unseen portion of the area of consciousness we currently inhabit.

[DNA]

The three stars at the top left of the picture seem significant.

How come the fourth dimension is the way it is if the ones above it are so good?
And if we're lower then surely we'd be worse? We have plenty of our own incarnate parasites, just look at the way we treat eachother and our planet.

Having this 'bad' level between us and the good ones confuses me unless we're even worse.

To best understand the fourth dimension it is best to step away from the parastic god idea and step down to ghosts.
Bottom line I think the fourth dimension exists to provide free will to departed third dimensional life forms.
As humantrainee stated the fourth dimension is not as constrained as our own in terms of rules, and the power of intention works rather instantaneously.
So you see, the fourth dimension isn't really "the bad" dimension, it is the abode our spirit may travel to from this dimension either through dreaming, or astral projection or dying and refusing to move on to the fifth dimension and higher.
I through dumb luck crossed a ghost over once, this lead me to begin trying to do so through intent. Through practice I refined the technique a bit and I think anyone can do it. This is the technique I came up with for doing so
How To See A Ghost For Your Self (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?21695-How-To-See-A-Ghost-For-Your-Self) post #16.

The cool thing about it is, I later read a piece by Milton Ericson (one of the founding thinkers behind NLP) and he basically used the same strategy I use in post #16 above for folks who are stuck in paradigm paralysis and refuse to accept suggestions or helpfull information. He stated such folks become confrontational when the wrong language is used, as such one must be suggestive rather than cohersive.
It was quite validating to hear Milton's methods agreeing with my own. :)
It's not like you have anybody to talk to about this kind of thing.

[TraineeHuman]

There is much confusion in this third dimension, density, whaterver we want to call it. There are pattern repeating through all the distinct levels of density of vibration and what we *really are* exists at harmonic points all along the way, until you have gone from the most basic level that forms the very matter we are made of, through the levels of animal then human consciousness which then proceeds through fourth density, which is Christ consciousness then pure wisdom and then into what we would call unity consciousness where resides the higher self.

That being said, and this is just how I see it, if as above so below is in effect then the converse *must* be true, for in my estimation the whole point is to be in communication with these various levels of consciousness, and as below so above would be equally true, just a matter of which way ones perspective is oriented.

As I said, I see what is being referred to here as the fourth dimension as actually being an aspect of the unseen portion of the area of consciousness we currently inhabit.

PurpleLama, unfortunately you seem to have presumably not read the part of my previous post where I mentioned that all esoteric schools consider the principle “as above, so below, but not in general as below, so above” to be valid. Actually, many of them even consider that to be their most basic principle. Many years ago, half of the first lesson I had in Rosicrucianism was about this precise point. In that lesson it was mentioned how the same point was made by Paracelsus, who originally stated that principle, at the time he stated it in writing. When I say “all esoteric schools” I mean all Masons, Rosicrucians, alchemists, kabbalists, magicians, theosophists, and so on, throughout history.

Let me give an example of how “as below, so above” fails to be true. When I meditate, I normally go at least very briefly into the sixth dimension. That dimension is a “world” of complete formlessness, let me assure you. So, although there certainly are forms in the lower dimensions, there are absolutely none there. This fact is my direct daily experience. Again, though, this is not my “opinion” but is something precisely acknowledged in detail by all the major meditation traditions.

[PurpleLama]

I read your posts, to be sure. I see things a little differently, and I believe I adequately qualified my statements for clarity in relation to the OP. I believe the esoteric scools place a lot of importance on this text, which clearly equates the two movements, and defines them as the operation of one force:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/alc/emerald.htm

Debate is healthy but argument can be destructive, and I have no desire to take us too far afield of the topic at hand. I simply have a different perspective than yours and have placed it here so others can see both and make up their own minds.

I personally find it most fruitful to apply extreme discernment in researching the teachings of the above mentioned esoteric schools of thought, for the adherents to these have valued secrecy throughout history, and much that they have written for posterity contains misinformation designed to lead us away from the truth. Perhaps they did so to protect themselves, or perhaps they did so to keep control and power for themselves, or perhaps it was both at different times depending on the individual magi. And on more than one occasion I have found in my own research that a given esoteric school that claims to be positive actually contains many ideas leading to service to self if fully applied.

I also would like to make it clear that I value perspectives different from my own, and I do appreciate what you say, TH. Sorry, DNA, to be so off topic. I will stop now. :)

[9eagle9]

Okay basically..If it doesn't come from inside of you, stay the **** away from it until one knows what they are dealing with. And the same value applies once one knows what it is one is never again attempted to fart around with it.

DNA is attempting to demonstrate that beause it says its god, doesn't mean its good for us no matter how 'benevolent' . Our historical and mythological perspectives of gods should pretty much clue us into the fact that most of them are self serving arseholes regardless what they call themselves. Our life experiences have taught us that the stranger in the car doesn't roll down the window and say, "you little brat, here's candy , get in the car, I'm going to kill and dismember you."

At this point though the tremendous ego overgrowth of the new age bull**** flying hither and yon has made much of humanity so dumb I'm thinking these parasitical energies could actually drop the 'nice' ploy here soon and just sink their teeth in.

But humanity has this wound based obsession with 'nice'. Oh it sounds positive , hey, I'll climb in bed with it!

Yes most parasitical energies pose as benevolent presences. What ? We think their actually going to approach us and say "Oh I'm bad, I'm evil, Ive come to suck your life force from you" and get very far.

No they have enough self awareness to know they have to appeal to our relentless attraction to 'nice.: If it sounds nice , looks nice, we'll climb in bed with it and even spread its undemonstrated 'goodness' in attempt to convince others of its integrity because it basically ....it makes those people who spread it around 'look good'.

Good luck DNA.

[DNA]

Good luck DNA.

Thank you so much 9eagle9 I agree with everything you stated.

I don't mean to come off dark or foreboding or anything. I don't have an agenda. I just think this is a topic that diserves some attention, and I thought if I put some of my thoughts and experiences out there I might get folks to in turn share some of their own. :)
I thank you all for participating.


Debate is healthy but argument can be destructive, and I have no desire to take us too far afield of the topic at hand. I simply have a different perspective than yours and have placed it here so others can see both and make up their own minds.


I agree so much with your take here PurpleLama and I thank you for being so magnanimus.
I understand that folks are passionate and as such it sometimes leads folks to state their opinion in a factual manner in order to get their point across rather than statiing things in a hypothetical manner. Since all the things we are talking about are either experential or inferred, then there really is no way of proving any of this stuff and there for it is all in the realm of the hypothetical.
I've been guilty of this myself (getting caught up in the moment and debating my point as fact rather than hypothetical) and I'm attempting to correct that flaw in my behavior. :)

I personally don't put a lot of thought into the whole enigmatic "as above so below" thing. I used to.
Especially when Quantum Physics started looking into fine matter and there were so many parrallels with cosmic bodies.
I mean, aren't they speculating now that CERN is going to create mini black holes through the collision of subatomic particles?
So in this instance, aren't the terms fifth and sixth dimensions places rather than footsteps on a ladder.

In reality, I look at it in terms of pools of water. The third dimension is like an island, surrounded by the ocean of the fourth dimension, this in turn is surrounded by the greater fifth dimension and so one and so on.

I mean if the sixth dimension was say "kansas city" and you could get their via travelling through a celestial black hole, or say a mini black hole created in an sub-atomic atom smasher, then isn't it the same when you say "as above so below" or "as below so above"?

Just for the record, two days ago I was skimming Jane Roberts "the unkown reality volume one", and in it Seth was talking about how reality is constantly fed from the higher dimensions, and one of the manifestations in regards to this were mini black holes popping up and dissapearing at super fast speeds all around us.
This book was published in 1977, I don't even know if quantom phsysists were discussing this stuff(subatomic blackholes) yet.

It furthers the postulation that you need a "tunnel" to travel from the third dimension to the higher dimensions.
And I really believe in this tunnel thing.

[TraineeHuman]

PurpleLama, I do of course owe you an apology for trying to insist that the orthodox view must be correct. I've seen for myself how e.g. what I consider possibly the most important issue of spirituality -- that of "embracing one's dark side (in order to become freed of it)" -- has been heavily repressed and misrepresented both in the Eastern and the Western spiritual traditions for many recent centuries.

I guess your "as below, so above" principle does accord with Leibnitz's philosophy. As you may know, Leibnitz was perhaps the most respected esotericist (and also mathematician, and philosopher) of his day. According to his philosophy, the world is made out of things called "monads". Each monad contains all the information in the universe, but is itself indivisible.

[PurpleLama]

No apology is needed for no offence was taken. We all feel firmly what most "resonates" with us, and we all can come off a little strongly, myself most of all. I value the most information that is different form my previous understandings as that is what allows me most to grow. So, please, if you think differently please don't let me slow you down.

Your statement in refernce to sixth dimension being formless and such, I didn't see where you were going with that, it wasn't clear or I'm being dense. Either way, would you mind expanding on that? I'm not seeing how that related to the Great as below so above Contraversy. Thanks!

[9eagle9]

Formless is a mis-nomer for 'less dense'. Each dimension having varying degrees of density. Or rather different kinds of density. Which is all dimensions are, differently occuring levels of density. 3d is very dense, 4d is dense , etc. Numerating the dimensions is a trap on it's own though just a way for the human mind to make sense of it all. An aura is another dimension of one's self. When one sees their own aura or someone elses they are seeing a different dimension of one's self . Its not light , like glowing light but may appear that way because it has less density than the human body, it has a certain amount of density, is 'lighter' in density than the physical form, but far denser than something of the higher dimensional level.

Of course this busts up everyeones grand notions of dimensions , dimensions have only just been a unit of measurement until the new age brain brigarde attempted to blur the waters....

but it also makes understanding dimensions more accessable to everyone and not just the gurus who mystify everything to make it appear that it is a knowledge accessable only to them.

[PurpleLama]

Speaking of appreciating perspectives other than my own, I say again:

Damn it's good to see you mixing it up on the forum, 9.

[9eagle9]

I didn't think you were coming off dark or foreboding, it just is what it is. It's really not a dark or foreboding concept although those who can't stand in the essential nature of how reality and illusion are created may find it so because this is not a entirely positive feel good event much like being bitten by a flea is not exactly a postive thing in itself. It just is what it is and not addressing it makes one as suspetible to it as those who obsess about it. Another mind trap created by concepts of good and evil, negative and positive, etc etc etc. People who view themselves as 'good' and full of light are as suspetible as those who are of a more dubious character. perhaps more so because they are so looking for something external of themselves to validate themselves.

We have all manner of unseen values going on and they are expressed eventually in the physical world. The most value one can give to parasitical energies is that of the same value as fleas and mosquitoes. They just are what they are, its not personal but more of an opportunistic value, its not personal and instead of treating them as if they are something to be honored , or something to be hysterical about, simply do what we do naturally....get the repellent out....lol.

But ...everyone no matter how good and luv-n-lighty they perceive themselves have fallen prey to a parastical , opportunistic energy at some point. Some are bit through the bag with it so much they no longer operate under their own volition and some are simply being distracted by them to the extent that they can't see or know themselves for what they really are.



Good luck DNA.

Thank you so much 9eagle9 I agree with everything you stated.

I don't mean to come off dark or foreboding or anything. I don't have an agenda. I just think this is a topic that diserves some attention, and I thought if I put some of my thoughts and experiences out there I might get folks to in turn share some of their own. :)
I thank you all for participating.


Debate is healthy but argument can be destructive, and I have no desire to take us too far afield of the topic at hand. I simply have a different perspective than yours and have placed it here so others can see both and make up their own minds.


I agree so much with your take here PurpleLama and I thank you for being so magnanimus.
I understand that folks are passionate and as such it sometimes leads folks to state their opinion in a factual manner in order to get their point across rather than statiing things in a hypothetical manner. Since all the things we are talking about are either experential or inferred, then there really is no way of proving any of this stuff and there for it is all in the realm of the hypothetical.
I've been guilty of this myself (getting caught up in the moment and debating my point as fact rather than hypothetical) and I'm attempting to correct that flaw in my behavior. :)

I personally don't put a lot of thought into the whole enigmatic "as above so below" thing. I used to.
Especially when Quantum Physics started looking into fine matter and there were so many parrallels with cosmic bodies.
I mean, aren't they speculating now that CERN is going to create mini black holes through the collision of subatomic particles?
So in this instance, aren't the terms fifth and sixth dimensions places rather than footsteps on a ladder.

In reality, I look at it in terms of pools of water. The third dimension is like an island, surrounded by the ocean of the fourth dimension, this in turn is surrounded by the greater fifth dimension and so one and so on.

I mean if the sixth dimension was say "kansas city" and you could get their via travelling through a celestial black hole, or say a mini black hole created in an sub-atomic atom smasher, then isn't it the same when you say "as above so below" or "as below so above"?

Just for the record, two days ago I was skimming Jane Roberts "the unkown reality volume one", and in it Seth was talking about how reality is constantly fed from the higher dimensions, and one of the manifestations in regards to this were mini black holes popping up and dissapearing at super fast speeds all around us.
This book was published in 1977, I don't even know if quantom phsysists were discussing this stuff(subatomic blackholes) yet.

It furthers the postulation that you need a "tunnel" to travel from the third dimension to the higher dimensions.
And I really believe in this tunnel thing.

[etm567]

DNA, have you actually had direct experience with any of the Gods? I don't mean with any fourth-dimensional nasty entities. My understanding is that all those nasties have been banned ever since three to five thousand years ago from having any contact with physical humans, except that they are permitted to try and influence human minds in certain very limited ways. In my experience, such beings collectively constitute "Satan", or "the archons".

The real Gods I happen to have had direct experience of all came from the sixth dimension or higher. They were all benevolent. Also, they were all human. They weren't some other species called "the Annunaki" at all. That's one reason I know for a fact that the Sumerian creation myth isn't literally true.

I have two questions for you, and I don't have any firm opinions on these myself. I am still looking for info.

From reading Sitchin about the Anunnaki, one does not get the idea that they are Reptilian at all; rather, according to the pictures of tablets and cylinder seals he presents, they look like us, only much bigger. But other writers have definitely accused the Anunnaki of being Reptilian.

I didn't get that from the Sumerian tablets because they do say something like, "We have done it, we have created them in our image..." And there is a cylinder seal with Enki and Ninkharsag, holding a little person up, and with stuff that looks like lab equipment, beakers and such.

But then there is Anton Parks, who definitely represents all these various folks as differing degrees of Reptilian, with the Anunnaki least Reptilian, perhaps most human, of all.

So, what do you think if the Anunnaki could be large humans?

The second question, which probably should have been first, is why do you think they've all been locked up? And if they are just people, but bad people, with more abilities than we have, why do you call them gods? Because they aren't any more divine than we are, are they?

ON EDIT: I take that back, I see you are not referring to the "bad guys" as gods. Just the good guys from the sixth. But even if they are good guys from the sixth, why do you call them gods?

By the way, according to Anton Parks' scheme of things, which has a cast of dozens of types of theses beings, the archons are the Miminu, I think is how he spells it, or maybe the Minimu, meaning the Grays, which are without souls, I think.... If I am not mixing something up.


Thanks,

ETM

[etm567]

Now, there are also the Greek and Roman names for the same gods and in the above example of Neptune and Zeus, we have a conflation of the two. Zeus is Greek and corresponds to Jupiter in the Roman pantheon. Neptune is the Roman name for the Greek god Poseidon.

It was Zeus and Poseidon who overthrew the Titans and took over rule of the Earth. Zeus rules the sky and Poseidon the sea. Their brother Hades ( Roman Pluto) ruled the underworld.

The sheer number of gods can be confusing. Mixing Greek and Roman names makes keeping things straight even more challenging.

I hope this was helpful

You bring to mind an oddity. In what is called the Visitor's Entrance to the United Nations, off the big plaza on the north side of the complex, which is probably closed now, there is a statue of what looks to be a Greek god. And one of his arms is raised as if he is about to throw something. It could be a thunderbolt. You know, he looks like a god, he has a beard. And everybody at the UN refers to him as Zeus. You can meet people over by Zeus. Or you can stipulate what area of the public lobby by mentioning Zeus. Except he isn't really Zeus. He's really Poseidon, and his trident was lost. So the arm that is outstretched is supposed to be holding a trident. BUt he was moved at some point and that was lost. And he was donated to the UN I believe by the Greek government.

The only reason I know that he is Poseidon is because I worked indirectly with the woman who was in charge of all the exhibits at the UN, and she corrected me.

Zeus, Poseidon/Neptune? In your post you say "and in the above example of Neptune and Zeus, we have a conflation of the two," but I cannot find that example. Was there a conflation of the two, actually?

[etm567]

All the stories about so-and-so being the parent or sibling or whatever of another God sound to me like stories made up by priests. Consider the politics of any high priest(ess)'s position. The more they can paint the God -- indeed, all the Gods -- as being unreliable or capricious or dangerous, the more their own power and significance increases. Because if the people can't trust the God, and the priest "informs" them that the current ten-year drought was caused by such-and-such God or Goddess, then the people are going to try hard to make the high priest do his darnedest. Whether the priest is Sumerian or ancient Greek or whatever, I consider it's ridiculous to believe them and take them at their word when their vested interest was so huge and their integrity so hugely, if not infinitely, inferior to that of any of the Gods. By the way, I'll bet there are huge inconsistencies between the Greek versus the Sumerian versus the Roman versions. And yet I was once directly shown that it was the same Gods in most cultures, just with different names.

It also makes much more sense to me that the galactic federation wouldn't permit any manipulation with human DNA except by beings who are human themselves.

Have you read any of Sitchin? or if not Sitchin, any of the translations of the Sumerian and Assyrian tablets? Give them a look, they are very interesting.

The first time I saw any of that had nothing to do with Sitchin. It was a book on ancient Sumer. And I had no idea about any of this, And even so, it was absolutely obvious to me that the Bible, the Old Testament, had mostly been based on the Sumerian and Assyrian stories, which were much more detailed than those that ended up in the Bible. From the creation of the solar system to the creation of man, of Eve, the deluge and Noah (by another name) and his ark -- it's all there and in more detail. Adam and Eve with different names in the garden. But there was Enki, the serpent, who had created them, and there was Enlil, his half brother, who was the "angry god" who was always getting pissed at man and kept trying to get rid of him. His half-brother Enki, the scientist who had created "man," loved him and was always trying to save man from Enlil, who seems to me to have been the "angry god."

Of course, it goes on and on and on, and then there's Marduk. But I won't go there. too complicated!

It's a very interesting story. They all are. And it is so obvious that they are where the Bible stories came from that it is just nonsensical to pay no attention to them. And of course the point is that these guys weren't gods, they were just other people who were taller than we were and had power and technology and did mess with our DNA. Or that is Sitchin's hypothesis. But it makes pretty good sense to me.

And, by the way, I am under the impression that many reps of the Galactic Federation openly admit our DNA has been messed with, time upon time upon time. Of course, it's always questionable, which channel for the Galactic Federation is one that can be trusted, because I do not for a minute believe they all can. I think some can. But I'm not sure of that. How could I be sure? I wish I knew!

Anyway, I would be interested in hearing more of what you think. I hope you don't take this as argument. I'm just trying to figure it all out.

ETM

[etm567]

To best understand the fourth dimension it is best to step away from the parastic god idea and step down to ghosts.
Bottom line I think the fourth dimension exists to provide free will to departed third dimensional life forms.
As humantrainee stated the fourth dimension is not as constrained as our own in terms of rules, and the power of intention works rather instantaneously.
So you see, the fourth dimension isn't really "the bad" dimension, it is the abode our spirit may travel to from this dimension either through dreaming, or astral projection or dying and refusing to move on to the fifth dimension and higher.
I through dumb luck crossed a ghost over once, this lead me to begin trying to do so through intent. Through practice I refined the technique a bit and I think anyone can do it. This is the technique I came up with for doing so
How To See A Ghost For Your Self (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?21695-How-To-See-A-Ghost-For-Your-Self) post #16..

I hope I don't get myself in trouble here talking about something I'm really not knowledgeable about. But Steve Beckow, who has a number of sites, has on one or two of them written about the astral plane, and other planes. He has spent some time struggling to put together some sensible way of classifying them, based on a lot of more traditional material that has come through mediums over the past century. These are mediums that I think are pretty well known, but not to me, so their names do not come to mind. But some of the channeled material is of well known personages, such as T. E. Lawrence, if those are the right initials. And he talks about the different levels in the astral plane, and he says there are extreme differences from the lower end of it, which has nasties in it, to higher up. And he goes into some detail about how one can get around within that plane, if one can get around -- and all these specifics I do not remember.

I'll try to find that article tomorrow, if you are at all interested. It might be called "New Maps of Heaven," or something like that.

ETM

[David Trd1]

Wonderful piece,most enjoyable.

Peace:)

[litmus]

if i missed the point please forgive me.

while practicing and studying empathy i came across energies attached to emotion. also called elementals in some shamanic traditions .in these all of us attract innately non-intelligent "beings" to us through our emotions. over time the "beings" are believed to grow by consumption of repatitious emotions by its host. through the buildup of these energies a person can attract similarly aligned intelligent entities/spirits . in shamanic traditions the persons everyday actions can then be influenced by entities attached. this is another reason balance is important to the shaman.

if a host dies then a chance for a "haunting" is great as the being will continue to repeat situations that brought it energy before. as an example a home that witnessed chronic abuse next tenants may experience irrational arguments as the energies try to recreate its idle environment. or a home my have a ghostly figure that recreates an event over again.

im not sure if this is even what the original post implied. but i think it fits the conversation.

[modwiz]

Now, there are also the Greek and Roman names for the same gods and in the above example of Neptune and Zeus, we have a conflation of the two. Zeus is Greek and corresponds to Jupiter in the Roman pantheon. Neptune is the Roman name for the Greek god Poseidon.

It was Zeus and Poseidon who overthrew the Titans and took over rule of the Earth. Zeus rules the sky and Poseidon the sea. Their brother Hades ( Roman Pluto) ruled the underworld.

The sheer number of gods can be confusing. Mixing Greek and Roman names makes keeping things straight even more challenging.

I hope this was helpful

You bring to mind an oddity. In what is called the Visitor's Entrance to the United Nations, off the big plaza on the north side of the complex, which is probably closed now, there is a statue of what looks to be a Greek god. And one of his arms is raised as if he is about to throw something. It could be a thunderbolt. You know, he looks like a god, he has a beard. And everybody at the UN refers to him as Zeus. You can meet people over by Zeus. Or you can stipulate what area of the public lobby by mentioning Zeus. Except he isn't really Zeus. He's really Poseidon, and his trident was lost. So the arm that is outstretched is supposed to be holding a trident. BUt he was moved at some point and that was lost. And he was donated to the UN I believe by the Greek government.

The only reason I know that he is Poseidon is because I worked indirectly with the woman who was in charge of all the exhibits at the UN, and she corrected me.

Zeus, Poseidon/Neptune? In your post you say "and in the above example of Neptune and Zeus, we have a conflation of the two," but I cannot find that example. Was there a conflation of the two, actually?

The conflation I was referring to here was the Greek/Roman example. He said, Neptune and Zeus. The correct way would have been Neptune and Jupiter, or Poseidon and Zeus. I was addressing the confusion that can result when mixing Pantheon names in the already somewhat daunting task of keeping the names themselves in order.

[9eagle9]

What ever occurs 'over there' is reflected here. We are all just portals of whatever we are attached to. Or...not attached to.

We have parasitical gods here in physical form. The powers that be. We have parasitical people actually claiming to be Gods, Jesus, Ra,some incaranation of a god feeding off of others. For whatever reason for ego profit or actual profit.

Everyone has the experience of a parasitical god. If you're paying taxes, and paying for own enslavement and mind bends, there's your experience. The only thing that becomes debateable is if we are aware of it.

[Eagle]

there is a differeance between light and truth just because it gives off light dosent mean its for your highest good, but be careful what you deam as a false God you may find yourself truely in the dark if you dont belive in anything. regardless of what you may or may not believe there is always a source for truth and Recognizing it comes from your heart and not your head

[DNA]

To best understand the fourth dimension it is best to step away from the parastic god idea and step down to ghosts.
Bottom line I think the fourth dimension exists to provide free will to departed third dimensional life forms.
As humantrainee stated the fourth dimension is not as constrained as our own in terms of rules, and the power of intention works rather instantaneously.
So you see, the fourth dimension isn't really "the bad" dimension, it is the abode our spirit may travel to from this dimension either through dreaming, or astral projection or dying and refusing to move on to the fifth dimension and higher.
I through dumb luck crossed a ghost over once, this lead me to begin trying to do so through intent. Through practice I refined the technique a bit and I think anyone can do it. This is the technique I came up with for doing so
How To See A Ghost For Your Self (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?21695-How-To-See-A-Ghost-For-Your-Self) post #16..

I hope I don't get myself in trouble here talking about something I'm really not knowledgeable about. But Steve Beckow, who has a number of sites, has on one or two of them written about the astral plane, and other planes. He has spent some time struggling to put together some sensible way of classifying them, based on a lot of more traditional material that has come through mediums over the past century. These are mediums that I think are pretty well known, but not to me, so their names do not come to mind. But some of the channeled material is of well known personages, such as T. E. Lawrence, if those are the right initials. And he talks about the different levels in the astral plane, and he says there are extreme differences from the lower end of it, which has nasties in it, to higher up. And he goes into some detail about how one can get around within that plane, if one can get around -- and all these specifics I do not remember.

I'll try to find that article tomorrow, if you are at all interested. It might be called "New Maps of Heaven," or something like that.

ETM


Hi ETM

Let me just state that the material you provided on another thread is just amazing. I'm reading it now, and will continue to do so over the weekend.

For anyone interested in this field here is a snippet from the work ETM recomended along with the link where a free PDF of the book can be found also provided by ETM, excellent stuff. And everything to do with the material on this thread.



War in Heaven and The Theocrats
Having introduced the major entities: souls, those who manipulate them, and the technology for doing so, we need to develop these concepts much further. This is as good a place as any to refer to the groundbreaking visionary work of Kyle Griffith, found in his book War in Heaven (1988).

As a physical framework, Griffith speaks of "astral matter" that has an atomic and subatomic particle structure resembling that of physical matter, but possessing much less mass than the physical counterpart. Although the mass ratios among the various astral subatomic particles is the same as that of the physical ones, all have much less absolute mass than physical electrons.

Astral subatomic particles have gravitational properties that resemble but do not interact with the gravitation of physical particles. Likewise there is astral energy that does not interact with physical systems.

There is however one very important exception to this general lack of interaction, and this actually is the basis of "the secret of life": Astral matter forms complex organic molecules just as physical matter does, and their respective chemical bonds have similar energy levels and photon frequencies associated with them. This allows for resonance and chemical bonding between physical and astral matter. It is the combined molecular system that exhibits the basic characteristics of "life", such as irritability and the ability to reproduce.

This is how astral matter and the soul, which is constructed of astral matter, become involved in the reduplication of DNA and many aspects of cell metabolism.

The bonding provides a pathway by which some of the cell's metabolic energy can be converted into astral energy that feeds the soul, powering its various functions, and providing for regeneration of its astral matter, which is then used to perform cellular growth and repairs.

Death is caused by breaking the bonds between physical and astral matter.

The soul spoken of here is a primitive analog of the physical body. It is alive, but it is not sentient. It has a nervous system but not a mind. Griffith calls this the somatic soul. The "true" soul is the astral soul.

The astral soul is a body of astral matter linked to the somatic soul's nervous system by the famous silver cord. This is structured like a segment of plant root with feeder roots at both ends, tapping into the two souls' nervous systems.

Energy flowing from the body into the somatic soul and through the silver cord to the astral soul is the astral soul's only truly efficient source of nourishment.

When the body dies, the somatic soul decomposes. The astral soul does not, but it loses its best source of energy.

A new somatic soul is created during the embryological development of every new human being.

Griffith provides a complicated discussion of various methods of reincarnation, involving ways in which the astral soul connects, and interactions with the mother's astral soul. Although quite interesting, this is beyond the scope of our page.

What is important for us here is this: the astral soul (or spirit) normally receives its energy from the living physical body and must reincarnate within ten to fifty years in order to revitalize itself. If it does not accomplish this, it faces illness, insanity, and death.

However there are many drawbacks to reincarnation also: the chance of encountering hidden body flaws, poor earthly environments, birth traumas, and so forth.

Some spirits are unwilling to take these chances. They take a different, evil, and immoral path to replenishing themselves: cannibalism. They are able to use telepathic powers to "hypnotize" spirits who then allow them to attach their own silver cord to them, just as though they were the somatic soul of an infant. By this means they can draw out enough energy to sustain themselves, but the process destroys the other spirit.

In War in Heaven, the spirits that do this are termed Theocrats, probably because for long millennia the vehicle they have used to capture and destroy weaker spirits has been religion. The Theocrats obtain victims by posing as gods and persuading religious believers to come to them voluntarily after death thinking they are entering "eternal bliss in Heaven".



And here is where the work can be found in it's entirety. :)
https://www.dmt-nexus.me/Files/Books...n%20Heaven.pdf (https://www.dmt-nexus.me/Files/Books/General/War%20In%20Heaven.pdf)

[nf857]

What about the ones acting and operation in out 'Now' 'Present Day' we should be focussing on them. 'The Government' who spread 'Malinformation' 'Disinformation' this is happening to my government right now, regards the welfare rights of the 'Sick & Disabled' in this new system we all have all 'Capacity' to work, in the old system we were didn't. This new system will only give benefit to the 'TERMINALLY ILL' in other words dieing already, 'PEOPLE WITH NO ARMS OR LEGS' in other words 'NO USE', or people who are 'MENTALLY HANDICAPPED' in other words no use.

This is no different to 'NAZI' rule, first they got rid of the 'Sick & Disabled' i used to think New World Order was just 'Fear Based' 'Propaganda' produced by the Government to keep us in 'Fear' of it. However it is very, very real & its happening. What we need in out country right now is Erin Brokovitch to get thare bastards by the balls & proove all this. All illnesses like AIDS, ME, MS, ADHD, ALZHEIMERS, all have the same brain annolimies- dont we find this strange people, especially when doctors wont let you have tests to proove whats going wrong in the brain to make somebodys bodily systems defunct. It prooves that we the 'Sick & Disabled' in these groups have all been predisposed to something, so dont listen to garbage like you immune system burnt out. Its what you were predisposed to that has created your immune system not to work, all this can be proven, however we need people who are willing to proove it for us. When the governement employs private health care professionals, who ignore all previous medical history, & can ignore anything you tell then in a medical as your testament is not enough, no can your GP proove it, you are being put through a system that no longer is going to provide for you. They are making incapacity benefit 'Null and Void' however the 300 million pounds that they paid ATOS healthcare, will not be backed up, as its going to cost them more in tribunals and appeals.

Upto now out of the 100% of people have had to suffer the strees, worry, anxiety & humilation of not having their illnesses beleived there is only 13% actually found to be 'Employable' so the other 87% have to suffer for the 13%. However its not just as simple as the 'lesser of two evils' especially when the government has chose the 'more' of the two. I know myself that 250,000 people in my country represent a big percentage of the 87% percent, when you include people who suffer with 'M.S.' 'ADHD' 'A.I.D.S' 'ALZHEIMERS' 'CRON''S DISEASE' 'LUPUS' etc etc, you can imagine this makes up a lot more of the 87%, so to simply here, im saying the government has created a 'PATHOGEN-MYCROPLASMA' that all above have been pre-disposed to via an injection, something they have breathed in, or a mosquito bite, or anything else. We are gunie pigs, we have had biological warfare tested on us, and if somebody was willing like Erin Brokovitch to proove all this 'we could get the bastards'. Please email me anybody who is interested in any of this, as im not PARANOID, nor am i DELUSIONAL the EVIDENCE speaks VOLUMMES!!!!

x

[9eagle9]

The subject of earth bounds or ghosts interested me several years back. I don't really go there much anymore and I've probably forgotten more than I remember about those sorts of experiences. Because I have a natural mediumshp ability the world of spirit interested me a lot but there was no essential truth in alot of what they relayed to me. I noticed always there was this undercurrent of tension or mild distress concerning many of the entities I encountered. Mediums used to tell me that it's because the world of spirit is sad for us. That's why they want to 'help' us.

What a to spend enternity, I thought. To live through all the challenges here just to go 'over there' and be sad all the time ....this is what got me going on 'something is not being portrayed accurately' here. Because the same mediums would say 'Oh we die and go to this happy blissful place...which coincidentally is filled with sad entities". Two opposing beliefs clashing with each other.

Ooooookay.

I noticed spirits that would try attach to me. Hangers on. In lieu of not being able to suck on me, they would offer advice. Or tell me what to do. Like they wanted me to do things like I was proxy body. It's like they wanted to be my mind. And tell the physical body what to do, based on THEIR preferences. None of this was horrible like "go Kill Uncle Frank or 'Go rule the World" it was just what 'they' wanted, not what I wanted.

Or ...they would tell me what to do via another Medium.

And ones who were present but didn't attempt to attach. They had more pragmatic advice but was still not really high level intelligence.

So I had life time guide, Maggie. So I realize she is with me because I seem familiar to her. She didn't really offer me anything ...she's just there.I asked her one time why she was around, what was the point of life time spirit guide? What was the attraction? She said," I was a hard worker in life, and you are too. "

To me this is weird basis for a spirtual relationship. She wasn't mean or evil or attaching she was always near me, I realized out of a sense of familiarity. Not mal intent.....or good intent. I was familar to her. That word....Familiar. How do we use that word in context to spirit guides? Then my hair stood on end, and I thought , Wow are we familars to THEM!!??

So ..They are in this dimension without physical form but why? They weren't all that helpful. And... Why stay here if there is a 'better' place to move on to. As far as spirit guides they knew things but it wasn't the central knowing I needed to get to. And then just as often they gave advice that was entirely off track.

So why are they all there. Years later when was finally able to get into alignment with my higher knowing I found out that many of these enties, not all, but many are there because during their time in a physical 3d existence they couldn't learn or accept how to begin living a non physical existence. Or they outright didn't want a non physical existence. Bottom line lack of acceptance of one's self. Earthbounds that haven't a clue they are dead were more about denial. They had not acquired any skills of a non physical existence while living a physical one. Or even just a basic acceptance of our non physicality. Could this be one of the reasons why we reincarnate so much...we simply haven't the internal fortitude or wherewithall to progress further.

Many of the living today are practicing living a non physical existence. We express on astral, and consciousness and spirit, and all sorts of non physical things. We are not only accepting that the physical is just a small portion of us, we are knowing it. We're expressing it. Not just an 'idea' we are having experiences of it and accepting them for what they are. And this may be why it appears , so SOME say, that we are not reincarnating as much.

Unfornunately these non physical folks couldn't quite go there while they were in a physical body. Their after life was always just a sort of 'idea' that religons had given them. Not a knowing or experience.

Fear--- they can't go anywhere they lack the skills, to live an optimal non physical existence even as they are non physical. Just as many people living a physical experience cannot embrace or accept it.


The realms of spirit, not all of them are the same...those who have passed on are seemingly in this sort of no man's land of not being able to optimally function as a non physical entity. They are very attached here having 'seemingly' no recourse. So eventually they return. Nor am I saying this is a bad place....or a good place. But like people here on earth, we have to use a great deal of discernment with them. They couldn't confront themselves while living. So realizing this I had to ask myself what can these entites offer you? If you prod at some of them, they show themselves for what they are. And some of them are just lost , as disconnected from self there as they were here. No closer to what they really , dead, as they were living.

But some have the wherewithall to realize they can be opportunists. And create another facsimile existence out there, constructs they're called. And people tap into this. Some are so willing to decieve you to give up yourr power they'll tell you anything. Some are just eager to please you.

And we can forumlate a basis for walk in knowng that. Or why things attach. Mostly because we've agreed to it. We're told it's okay, they're spirit guides, it's a natural part of a spiritual existence, so people automatically accept this and allow it without questioning it.

This become more clear to me because it seems sometimes my sisters are controlled beyond the grave by mother, they always feeel her presence, they see manifestations and behave as if she were around. Do what mother tells you. My sister behaves as if my mother were still living in the house with her and so she does a lot of stuff to avoid mother's judgement. This freaked my neice out so badly she moved out of the house. But who is giving their power away here. So I told my sister Quite doing what you think she wants to do.

My mother had issue with bed linens, everything from the ground up sheets, pillowcases, comforter all had to match. If they didn't you'd end up having your bed torn apart and on the floor. Well my sister and neice grew lax after her death and not all the beds were being made Martha Stewart style. And they would find them torn apart. So my sister immedeately begins to make her beds up to Mother's standard.

How different is that from a parasitical god? Not much.

[DNA]

My mother had issue with bed linens, everything from the ground up sheets, pillowcases, comforter all had to match. If they didn't you'd end up having your bed torn apart and on the floor. Well my sister and neice grew lax after her death and not all the beds were being made Martha Stewart style. And they would find them torn apart. So my sister immedeately begins to make her beds up to Mother's standard.

How different is that from a parasitical god? Not much.

I hear you here believe me. And I don't doubt for a second that it is in fact your mother hanging around. But there are alternative aspects that are interesting as well.
I remember reading in a book by Florinda Donner called "the witch's dream" about a man in mexico who had absorbed the traits and familiarities of a man by being at his bedside when he died. It seemed that the dying man's soul moved on, but certain energetic configurations about the man were transferred into the young man at his bedside. The story was excellent, the book was amazing, and I always considered the phenenomenon within the realm of possibility.


Fear--- they can't go anywhere they lack the skills, to live an optimal non physical existence even as they are non physical. Just as many people living a physical experience cannot embrace or accept it.


The realms of spirit, not all of them are the same...those who have passed on are seemingly in this sort of no man's land of not being able to optimally function as a non physical entity. They are very attached here having 'seemingly' no recourse. So eventually they return. Nor am I saying this is a bad place....or a good place. But like people here on earth, we have to use a great deal of discernment with them. They couldn't confront themselves while living. So realizing this I had to ask myself what can these entites offer you? If you prod at some of them, they show themselves for what they are. And some of them are just lost , as disconnected from self there as they were here. No closer to what they really , dead, as they were living.

But some have the wherewithall to realize they can be opportunists. And create another facsimile existence out there, constructs they're called. And people tap into this. Some are so willing to decieve you to give up yourr power they'll tell you anything. Some are just eager to please you.

I have had experience with these folks as well, but, I'm glad I've read certain works that have helped me put things in a certain context.
It's wierd, but sometimes I will read something and just a few weeks later a manifestation will occur, that had the potential to be more probelmatic than enlightening, but having just digested said material gave me the insight to deal with the situation properly.

For me, I don't view all souls the same. I think there is a level of known quanitfying that takes place. I think souls know what they are doing as a group and a whole when they send folks down to earth to incarnate, and each trip is a hammer blow that brings the raw piece of steel that much closer to being a sword. Or a spoon, I don't want my blacksmith analogy to be a hang up. :)

For me, the two greatest contributers to my peace of mind in this area are Micheal Newton's "journey of the soul" books and Chelsea Quin Yarbro's "The Michael Teachings".
I have come to believe that there is an instant when creation, or the Tao, spits out a group of souls into the universe. Upon that ejection, the souls are considered new. They emerge from the Tao in a tight knit family of a 1000, give or take, who are like siblings to them. And two more groups that are like cousins to them.
These souls are instantly ushered into the orginazation administered by beings who are angelic in nature, and begin learning what the universe is all about. Soon there after incarnation begins.

Young souls for some reason feel more comfortable incarnated than not incarnated, and it is as you say, it is as if they do not have the requisite understanding necessary to make the most out of non-corporeal existance.
And for one reason or another, these folks have messed around and not jumped on the band wagon when the tunnel of light has shown up.

This would be the tunnel of light that so many folks have talked about in near death experiences. This Pam Reynolds 11 minutes is as good an explanation on this as I've ever heard.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNbdUEqDB-k

I think it is important to note, that folks who cross this tunnel and go to the other side are not the spirits who visit us and or want to play ouija board with us.
Once folks cross this tunnel and go to the otherside they are playing by house rules.
Universal law.
When one is in the breath of god, one is inclined to live in the alignment agreed upon by universal law, and the amnesia of incarnation is lifted, and we become a tad more intelligent.

The beings we are speaking of live in a nebulous void that is not in the breath of god. It is a place that one does not have to follow house rules, and as such your company is probably not the best.
Most older souls are not prone to make the mistake of hanging out in such a place. I would think it would be the younger souls.
But you know what, that is allright, for I am sure it is a lesson we all must learn.
Wondering around the fourth dimension. The dim dimension

[mahalall]

Thanks DNA for highlighting ETM thread quote,

Similarly agree at how amazing it is.

"As a physical framework, Griffith speaks of "astral matter" that has an atomic and subatomic particle structure resembling that of physical matter, but possessing much less mass than the physical counterpart. Although the mass ratios among the various astral subatomic particles is the same as that of the physical ones, all have much less absolute mass than physical electrons.

Astral subatomic particles have gravitational properties that resemble but do not interact with the gravitation of physical particles. Likewise there is astral energy that does not interact with physical systems.

There is however one very important exception to this general lack of interaction, and this actually is the basis of "the secret of life": Astral matter forms complex organic molecules just as physical matter does, and their respective chemical bonds have similar energy levels and photon frequencies associated with them. This allows for resonance and chemical bonding between physical and astral matter. It is the combined molecular system that exhibits the basic characteristics of "life", such as irritability and the ability to reproduce."

It took this one back to Atomism and research at Nalanda University on Kalapic mass. What i find intriquing is that when one explores the void with the presence of this fine mass secure within the construct of sampajanna, the serpent spirit-nagas (many cultures a god) manifests themselves. This challenging the perception as being a possible self construct it was clear that it is within the earth matrix. An interesting insight last aided with the energy from a solar storm.

enjoy this weekends energy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomism
http://wisdomquarterly.blogspot.com/2009/02/ultimate-materiality-kalapas-particles.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampaja%C3%B1%C3%B1a

[DNA]

Thanks DNA for highlighting ETM thread quote,

Similarly agree at how amazing it is.

"As a physical framework, Griffith speaks of "astral matter" that has an atomic and subatomic particle structure resembling that of physical matter, but possessing much less mass than the physical counterpart. Although the mass ratios among the various astral subatomic particles is the same as that of the physical ones, all have much less absolute mass than physical electrons.

Astral subatomic particles have gravitational properties that resemble but do not interact with the gravitation of physical particles. Likewise there is astral energy that does not interact with physical systems.

There is however one very important exception to this general lack of interaction, and this actually is the basis of "the secret of life": Astral matter forms complex organic molecules just as physical matter does, and their respective chemical bonds have similar energy levels and photon frequencies associated with them. This allows for resonance and chemical bonding between physical and astral matter. It is the combined molecular system that exhibits the basic characteristics of "life", such as irritability and the ability to reproduce."

It took this one back to Atomism and research at Nalanda University on Kalapic mass. What i find intriquing is that when one explores the void with the presence of this fine mass secure within the construct of sampajanna, the serpent spirit-nagas (many cultures a god) manifests themselves. This challenging the perception as being a possible self construct it was clear that it is within the earth matrix. An interesting insight last aided with the energy from a solar storm.

enjoy this weekends energy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomism
http://wisdomquarterly.blogspot.com/2009/02/ultimate-materiality-kalapas-particles.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampaja%C3%B1%C3%B1a

I agree,,,I disagree with the severity of Griffiths ascertations, but I find the points you referenced and many others by Griffith to be most illuminating.
If one can read the work and not get bogged down by the overall negative slant of it, there is a lot of good matrial to be gleemed from the guy.
My big disagreement being the idea that souls die and that kind of thing.
I think we all make it back to the source eventually,,,,and as such,,,although parasatism may take place,,I draw the line at out and out soul killing soul stuff going down.

[DNA]

I absolutely believe ancient gods with little g's are continuously trying to gain foot hold into our world. This statement led me to believe this article belonged here.
They contain all the usual New Age ingredients of grandiose statements, shaky grammar and unprovable predictions. But unlike all the other channeling cults, that of The Nine has serious clout. Perhaps the reason for this is that they claim to be the Ennead, or the nine major gods of ancient Egypt (see panel).









The Council of Nine
from http://www.forteantimes.com/artic/126/nine.html, 1999
(Posted here by Wes Penre, June 19, 2005)
http://www.illuminati-news.com/graphics/geller-uri1.jpgOne New Age channeling cult, above all the rest, has had a huge - very disturbing influence on hundreds of thousands of devotees worldwide. Known as 'The Nine', its disciples include cutting edge scientists, multi-millionaire industrialists and leading politicians. This exclusive extract based on The Startgate Conspiracy by Lynn Picknett and Clive Prince looks at the sinister origins of The Nine.

I am the beginning. I am the end. I am the emissary. But the original time I was on the Planet Earth was 34,000 of your years ago. I am the balance. And when I say "I" - I mean because I am an emissary for The Nine. It is not I , but it is the group. We are nine principles of the Universe, yet together we are one.
The declaration above is typical of the channeled pronouncements of the Council of Nine - or just 'The Nine'. They contain all the usual New Age ingredients of grandiose statements, shaky grammar and unprovable predictions. But unlike all the other channeling cults, that of The Nine has serious clout. Perhaps the reason for this is that they claim to be the Ennead, or the nine major gods of ancient Egypt (see panel). Or could there be another reason, one that owes more to The X-Files than the Pyramid Texts? Although The Nine may appear to be quintessentially a modern phenomenon, our research uncovered its truly astonishing pedigree. In fact, the story begins nearly 50 years ago, in a private research laboratory in Glen Cove, Maine, called the Round Table Foundation, run by a medical doctor http://www.illuminati-news.com/graphics/PUHARICH.JPGnamed Andrija Puharich (also known as Henry K Puharich).Set up in 1948 to research the paranormal, among the noted psychics studied at the Foundation were the famous Irish medium Eileen Garrett and the Dutch clairvoyant Peter Hurkos (Pieter van de Hirk).Prominent members included the influential philosopher and inventor Arthur M Young and the socialite Alice Bouverie (née Astor).
In December 1952, Puharich brought into his laboratory an Indian mystic named Dr D G Vinod, who began to channel The Nine or 'the Nine Principles'. In the months before Vinod returned to India, a group met regularly to hear The Nine's channelled wisdom. Never known for their modesty, The Nine proclaimed themselves to be God, stating "God is nobody else than we together, the Nine Principles of God."
Three years later, there appeared to be independent confirmation of their existence. In Mexico, Puharich and Young met Charles and Lillian Laughead, former Christian missionaries who were by then prominent in the burgeoning UFO contactee movement. (For a description of their involvement in the Dorothy Martin circle, see Jerome Clark's 'When Prophecy Failed' in FT117.) Back in the States a few weeks later, Puharich received a letter from the Laugheads containing messages received by their group's channeller. This message also claimed to come from the Nine Principles, even - amazingly - including references to the earlier communications transmitted through Dr Vinod. Could The Nine possibly be for real?
Perhaps the answer is embedded in the career of Puharich himself. After disbanding the Round Table Foundation in 1958, he worked for 10 years as an inventor of medical devices and achieved international recognition as a parapsychologist, most famously studying the Brazilian psychic surgeon, Arigo (José Pedro de Freitas). But all that was to pale into insignificance because, in 1971, Puharich discovered Uri Geller.
At their first meetings in Tel Aviv in 1971, Puharich hypnotised Geller in an attempt to find out where his http://www.illuminati-news.com/graphics/geller-uri-fire.jpgabilities came from. As a result, the young Israeli started to channel 'Spectra' - an entity which claimed to be a conscious super-computer aboard a spaceship. However, Puharich suggested to him that there might be a connection with the Nine Principles, and Spectra readily agreed that there was. The Nine claimed that they had programmed Geller with his powers as a young child.
Through Geller, The Nine alerted Puharich to his life's mission, which was to use Geller's talents to alert the world to an imminent mass landing of spaceships that would bring representatives of The Nine. However, Geller - by now an international psychic superstar - bowed out in 1973 and has resolutely turned his back on The Nine ever since. Puharich had to find other channels. He joined up with aristocratic former racing driver Sir John Whitmore and Florida-based psychic and healer Phyllis Schlemmer. They found a new channeller - a Daytona cook known to history only by the pseudonym 'Bobby Horne' - who lived to regret his dealings with The Nine. Driven to the brink of suicide by their constant demands, he too dropped out of the scene - his despair being dismissed by Whitmore as "signs of instability". After this, Phyllis Schlemmer was appointed the authorised spokesperson for the entity - known simply as 'Tom' - who represented The Nine.
Puharich, Whitmore and Schlemmer then set up Lab Nine at Puharich's estate in Ossining, New York. The Nine's disciples included multi-millionaire businessmen (many hiding behind pseudonyms and including members of Canada's richest family, the Bronfmans), European nobility, scientists from the Stanford Research Institute and at least one prominent political figure who was a personal friend of President Gerald Ford.
We also know that Lyall Watson (then the darling of the alternative scene because of his seminal 1973 book Supernature) was involved, as was the influential counter-culture guru Ira Einhorn - and Gene Roddenberry, creator of Star Trek.
The key to predicting eclipses is noticing that they occur in cycles, or at more or less regular intervals. http://www.illuminati-news.com/graphics/gene_roddenberry.jpgThe Sun goes round the sky once a year; the Moon once a month. This means that, every month, the Moon 'overtakes' the sun. This happens at the New Moon, and this is when solar eclipses occur. But, of course, we don't get an eclipse every New Moon. This is because the Moon has an elliptical orbit: sometimes it passes above the Sun when it overtakes it, sometimes below. But the Moon's elliptical orbit has its own cycle: it returns to the same place it started from every 18 years or so. Thus - if seen from the same place on Earth - an eclipse will be followed by another one just over 18 years later.
Roddenberry was part of that circle in 1974 and 1975, and even produced the screenplay for a movie about The Nine. How much he was influenced by them is unknown, although it is said that some of their concepts found their way into the early Star Trek movies, and The Next Generation and Deep Space Nine (what a giveaway!) series.
(There is a character named 'Vinod' in one Deep Space Nine episode.) Another key player in Lab Nine was Dr James J Hurtak, who was appointed Puharich's second-in-command by The Nine. In fact, Hurtak had been independently channelling The Nine since 1973. Puharich and Whitmore commissioned British writer Stuart Holroyd to write an account of their adventures, which appeared in 1977 as Prelude to the Landing on Planet Earth (retitled Briefings for the Landing on Planet Earth in paperback)
In this extraordinary book the true identity of the Nine - and of Tom - was finally revealed. Far from being the chummy character that his rather avuncular name suggests, Tom is actually Atum, the creator-god of the ancient Egyptian religion of Heliopolis, and Uncle Tom with his eight mates are none other than the Great Ennead of Heliopolis,
But even with such impressive contacts, all was not well with Puharich. Lab Nine broke up in 1978 after a series of mysterious events that culminated in an arson attack on the Ossining estate, and he fled to Mexico, claiming that he was being persecuted by the CIA. He returned to the USA two years later, and appears to have played no further part in The Nine story. He died in 1995 after falling down the stairs in his South Carolina home. However, The Nine continued. Not only did Schlemmer and Whitmore continue their mission, but Dr Hurtak has also moved on. He has become a major player in the unfolding millennial drama currently being played out at Giza, but perhaps more importantly he has established himself as a New Age guru par excellence, travelling the world giving workshops on his book of channelled revelations from The Nine, The Keys of Enoch. Written and laid out in classic Biblical style, its darkly apocalyptic vision has huge numbers of influential devotees.This we find very worrying.
Another Nine channel - an Englishwoman named Jenny O'Connor - was introduced to the avant garde Esalen Institute in San Francisco by Sir John Whitmore. She and The Nine became so influential there that they held seminars and - unbelievably - were actually listed on the Institute's staff, even successfully ordering the sacking of its chief finance officer and the reorganisation of its entire management structure..
This should concern us, because many influential people attended The Nine's Esalen seminars, including Russians who were part of the Institute's Soviet Exchange programme. Some of these later rose to prominence in the Gorbachev regime and were instrumental in the downfall of Communism. (The Esalen Institute now runs the US branch of the Gorbachev Foundation.)
The Nine are very much still with us. One of their recent channels, who is also in contact with Tom, is the American writer David M Myers. He is co-author with Britain's David S Percy of that extraordinary tome Two-Thirds, a history of the galaxy and the human race according to Myer's otherwordly contacts (who clearly have no sense of the absurd). Percy - best known as a champion of the 'Face on Mars' and the 'hoaxing' of the Apollo moon landings - was at one time part of the Schlemmer circle. Among the other major proponents of the 'monuments' of Mars and their alleged connection with ancient Egypt is none other than Dr James Hurtak - The Nine's great prophet - who has promoted this idea since as long ago as 1973. Richard C Hoagland - familiar to FT readers as another unrepentant 'Mars Face' enthusiast - is also clearly under The Nine's spell. David Myers and David Percy were, respectively, American and European Director of Operations for Hoagland's Mars Mission. In fact, his interpretation of the 'monuments' of Mars comes directly from The Nine. Flake though he may appear (increasingly in these hallowed pages), but his influence over huge swathes of the hungrier mystery seekers is undeniable. This is the man who addresses rapt audiences at the United Nations.
But it is in the New Age channelling circuit that The Nine have truly come into their own. In any other circles their true agenda would no doubt have been rumbled long ago, but this is the New Age. Anything The Nine say must be sweetness and light, right? But an objective reading of their divine pronouncements reveal the first stirrings of something very nasty in Paradise.
Their words appeared in 1992 as the book The Only Planet of Choice, credited to 'transceiver' Schlemmer and edited by Mary Bennett (a one-time member of the Schlemmer circle who also edited Myers and Percy's Two-Thirds). This has had an unprecedented influence over the New Age. According to Palden Jenkins (editor of an earlier edition of Only Planet) more and more New Age channelling groups are 'realising' that the real source of their wisdom is The Nine. In fact, we have discerned what amounts to a campaign by The Nine - or their adherents - to 'take over' the New Age. It would be a mistake to underestimate the economic or even political potential of this vast subculture - rich pickings indeed.
But The Nine's influence does not extend merely to New Age channelling circles. Andrija Puharich, James Hurtak and Richard Hoagland have all lectured at the United Nations in New York. And individuals connected with The Nine are also known to have influence with Vice-President Al Gore. Of course, if The Nine really are the ancient gods of Egypt, then surely there could be fewer more significant events than their return. One may be justified in thinking that the more leading politicians who fall under their influence the better; but are they really the ancient Ennead of Egypt? Can it be that they have actually returned to sort us all out, scattering love and enlightenment from their high moral ground?
Tom, in The Only Planet of Choice, chooses his words carefully as he explains that all the races of the Earth were seeded from space-gods - except one, the "indigenous race", the blacks. He is very careful to urge us not to make an issue out of this. After all, it's not the black race's fault that they have no divine spark like the rest of us.
Perhaps the most disturbing aspect of the history of The Nine is its relationship to the career of Andrija http://www.illuminati-news.com/graphics/geller-uri2.bmpPuharich. Recent research has revealed Puharich to have a distinctly sinister side. As an Army doctor in the 1950s, he was deeply involved with the CIA's notorious MKULTRA mind control project (see panel). He - together with the infamous Dr Sidney Gottlieb - experimented with a variety of techniques to change or induce actual thought processes. even to creating the impression of voices in the head. These techniques included the use of drugs, hypnosis and beaming radio signals directly into the subject's brain. And, significantly, he was engaged in this work at exactly the same time that The Nine made their first appearance at the Round Table Foundation. The Foundation itself is now known to have been largely funded by the Pentagon as a front for its medical and parapsychological research. Puharich was still working for the CIA in the early 1970s, when he brought Uri Geller out of Israel. Puharich's use of hypnosis is particularly interesting in The Nine circle. In the case of Uri Geller and Bobby Horne, he first hypnotised them and then suggested that they were in touch with The Nine - and lo, they were! Ira Einhorn - a close associate of Puharich's during the 1970s - confirmed to us that he believed that Puharich was "humanly directing" The Nine communications.
The evidence we have gathered strongly suggests that Tom and his fellow gods originated, not in the stars, but behind closed doors as part of a CIA mind control experiment. And what happened to that experiment? Now with hundreds of thousands of devotees, some in very high places, can The Nine be deemed a success? Of course, that depends very much on what the CIA had in mind. With their subtle racist propaganda, perhaps the flaky New Age Nine should worry the hell out of us.

[DNA]

Robotic Constructs for Parasitic Entities Attempting to Influence Mankind.
The Ashtar Command, The Galactic Federation of Light, The Nine, Wingmakers and The Archons


So I was thinking about the above article and how it corrolates with some other material I have come across.

There are some things in this article I don't agree about. For instance I don't think all channelled work is evil and or a parastic entity seeking entry into our world. But I do resonate with the material discussed as far as "the nine" are concerned and how they state they were the Egyptian Gods and how it is stated that they are a form of artificial intelligence.

I have always felt that the GFL or galactic federation of light was a negative channelling group and possibly a negative fourth dimensional group.

As far as this galactic federation of light (gfl) is concerned I would equate it, personally to the Ashtar command. Val Valarian way back in the 1980s was talking about this group being a negative ET group. Val Valarian gave multiple warnings concerning the Ashtar command. I think these warnings should be echoed in so far as the GFL is concerned and it sounds to me like this group "the nine" is in the same category, if not the exact same group using a new technique and or a new name.


Chanelled information is suppsedly done so because it is coming from a higher intelligence, so, with that in mind, if the work is not genius, it should be discounted because it fails to meet the criteria established for what channeled information is, information that is from a higher intelligence.

A higher intelligence will speak to you as an equal and attempt to encourage your independence and autonomy. A higher intelligence will not speak down to you as if you were a child and or a lesser being as the GFL, Ashtar Command both do.
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I was a tad bit star struck after reading the Billy Meier information and began seeking more information about these Plieadians.
This of course led to Barbara Marciniaks work.
I read her first two books and couldn't make my mind up about her.
At the time I had not formed my rule that genius needs to be apparent for validation attempts to continue.
For the record, there is no genius in Marciniaks works.
But I was still figuireing that out when I went to her speaking engagement at a UFO conference here in Phoenix.
She first told a story that was very telling in my opinion now. She told how she had read the works by Jane Roberts, "The Seth Material" and how she had WANTED to channel beings such as Jane Roberts had chanelled and that she then started chanelling the Plieadians.
She then went into a trance,,,,,and spoke with all of the Flowery euphemisms that are indicitive of the Ashtar collective and the GFL.
This turned me off big time.
After the speaking engagement, she was signing books. I approached her when the crowd died away, and asked her what she thought of Billy Meier. She said she thought he was a fraud. LOL :), I could have laughed my ass off at that point. For the record, I asked her about Amorah Quan Yin as well and she was irritated and angry that I was bringing these people up and asked me with a flurry of her hands " what, do you think we are one big happy bunch, and we hang out and hold hands or something?".
Honestly, my intuition of Marciniak wasn't that she was chanelling negative ETs, but, that she was a disinformation agent for the CIA.
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I'm exceedingly interested in ET contact books, and I certainly don't think all ETs are service to self or evil or whatever.
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For the record I have ran across chanelled work that stood the test and contained genius in them.
These are just my opinions, and I certainly don't want anyone to think I'm an expert or anything near, I'm just sharing an opinion on the matter.

Jane Roberts - absolutely displayes genius in my opinion. Her Seth books and Oversoul seven books are top notch in my opinion.
The Urantia Book - An amazing work and though capable of being written by a group of genius Illuminati folks who sought to break ranks and help mankind, it claims to be channelled.
The Michael Teachings - Only those books by Chelsea Quin Yarbro, these books changed several paradigms for me. Beware, lots of copy cats out there, only Yarbro's are legit.
Edgar Cayce - He is the man, and for the record his angelic channelling stuff is tit for tat as far as being spot on with the Urantia Book.
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Before six months ago, I may not have felt that the flowery channeled groups were dangerous or anything.
But, I had an experience just last November.
I was having an extensive e-mail dialogue with a woman claiming to be chanelling the Plieadians. (For the record, I dig Billy Meier, but the beings this woman was chanelling were not the same folks in my opinion.)
When we disagreed on a few key points, I suggested we agree to disagree and move on, but she became fixated and wrote me incredibly long e-mails to support her points that were mute as far as I was concerned.(That there was a battle going on between angelic aliens(pleiadians) and satanic aliens (reptilians).) And that isn't why I'm mentioning it.
I personally don't buy the whole reptilian thing, but that is neither here nor there.
I'm mentioning it, because, I felt a psychic attack accompany the e-mails when I would read them.
Not so much from her, but I felt it was from the beings she channelled.
I don't want to get into it too much, but, I honestly felt it was dangerous for me to continue communicating with her.
I cease and disisted all communication with her.
And then I felt no more psychic molestation.
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It was then that I realized that these flowery types who claim to channel angelic/aliens and the sort, can be very dangeous.
For one thing, aliens who respected your autonomy would never present themselves as something superior to you in any form(angelic), for they would never want you to subjucate your autonomy in any way by having you elevate their voice above your own.
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Aliens are incarnated beings just like you and me. Here to play out karma and learn through reincarnation.
They are not angels.
Period.
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I would like to know what the GFL really are,,,and the other corresponding channeled presentations. OnyxKnight in his thread My ET contact experiences (discussions/Q&A panel etc.) (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?15909-My-ET-contact-experiences-(discussions-Q-A-panel-etc.)) claims that the GFL are really automations, advanced AI.
Strangely enough, this has corrolations with the material on the WINGMAKERS (http://www.wingmakers.com/) website which claims that the fallen angels of the biblical lore are living in AI type bodies. There are also corrolations with a free PDF story available on the John Leer website ALIEN INTERVIEW with MATILDA O'DONNEL MACELROY (http://www.wingmakers.com/).
In which Matilda Macelroy claims to have been present at Roswell when the craft went down, and to have communicated with the being via telepathy in the recovered craft. There is also corresponding material in the information Andijra Puharich brought to light in studying a UFO group communicating with the earth called THE NINE (http://www.uri-geller.com/books/maverick/maver8.htm). Puarich then goes on to document the life of Uri Geller, who claims to be in contact with extraterrestrials as well, Puharich seems to think there is a connection between THE NINE and the biengs contacting URI GELLER. URI when asked point blank what the beings he is in contact are, states they are advanced robots, Artificial Intelligence.

I find the idea that some of these negative ET types could in fact be Artificial Intelligence a bit disturbng.

What would be a better housing unit than a robotic construct prepared to carry the awareness of a four D creature and for that matter allow it to operate in our 3D world? Some of the stories about the archons seem as though they fit this criteria as well.

[DNA]

I agree substantially with your suppositions here, DNA. This is very similar to what I have observed, that being that when a religion, or cult, or whatever gets behind a system of belief that a sort of vortex of thought is formed which is far greater than what individuals can accomplish.

What you describe as fourth dimensional beings I see rather denizens of the inner planes, or time/sapace as opposed to space/time, if one prefers. Occasionally such vortices may temporarily become inhabited by higher density beings, but the windows of such inhabitation would be limited. Most of the time it would be normal human conscious energy energizing said vortices. Hence the "miracle" potentials not being a constant factor. This would be applicable in any organized religious scenario or at any holy places, statues, stones, shrines and such.

Like I said, I agree substantially with your ideas, but splitting hairs I sometimes cannot resist.

I know this thread is old, but I do not care, I wanted to respond to this post.

I was rereading this thread and I was struck with what you are saying here in terms of these energies and or beings actualizing as a vortex.

A few years ago, well more than a few years ago. Me and two of my best friends had partied all night, got back to my place, and we decided to take a walk. We were in this deep discussion about god and what not. My two buddies were both hard core Jehovah Witnesses when they grew up.

Anyway, they were both open to the discussion and as such I began to give them my take and suffice it to say it was an attempt at deprogramming these two fellas from the religion they were brought up on.

As we walked home, a really strong wind vortex formed in front of us, it gained strength and stood up as a dust devil. It was huge and amazingly strong for just having formed in the middle of the city on the side walk like this. The dust devil then picked up speed, approached us, missed both of my friends who stood on either side of me, and it hit me with the force of a blow. My face felt smacked, and my hat was knocked off my head and taken to the other side of the street.

I stood there feeling violated. My friends both took at as a sign from their god, and that was that.

[PurpleLama]

A vortex is formed by our attention, constantly. The energy of what you were attempting to convey to your to friends coalesced right in front of you. If it were me, I would have taken it as confirmation of what I was saying, and I would have laughed all the way home.

[PurpleLama]

Thinking of the denizens of the inner planes as thoughtforms, as patterns of some coherence, and seeing that they may enter the vortex of our attention, and are thereby gain some energy from it, might yield some insight into the operation of the mental plane as we are engaged with it.

[DNA]

A vortex is formed by our attention, constantly. The energy of what you were attempting to convey to your to friends coalesced right in front of you. If it were me, I would have taken it as confirmation of what I was saying, and I would have laughed all the way home.

Well I wish I could have taken this as affirmation in the way you state. But as for me, I took this a little bit differently. I took this as this whirl wind, this thirty foot tall swirling wind, I took it as the communication of the god Jehovah in so far as my friends being of that religion, and I took it as Jehovah stating "shut the F#ck up!".

[ulli]

A vortex is formed by our attention, constantly. The energy of what you were attempting to convey to your to friends coalesced right in front of you. If it were me, I would have taken it as confirmation of what I was saying, and I would have laughed all the way home.

Well I wish I could have taken this as affirmation in the way you state. But as for me, I took this a little bit differently. I took this as this whirl wind, this thirty foot tall swirling wind, I took it as the communication of the god Jehovah in so far as my friends being of that religion, and I took it as Jehovah stating "shut the F#ck up!".


I agree that the message was STFU as well. But it wasn't Jehova who sent it, but the dynamics between the three of you.
Your efforts to "free" them, versus their efforts to remain where they felt happy.
When they are ready to leave, they will.
The highest law God gave to man is that of Free Will. That means no coercion. If everyone were to treat one another with that kind of respect the world would be different.
JW know about that, as they are considered by outsiders as coercive, what with knocking on people's front doors. But they always leave as soon as someone says that are not interested. Meanwhile not everyone they meet treats them with that kind of respect.
Normally when we go out of our way to convince another person of some truth (as we see truth) it's usually a message which sends signals more to ourselves about where we are trapped, than the other person we perceive as trapped. Unless they actively call for help to become freed we are only, at best, interfering in someone else's path.