You have already chosen the karma of this life.

[<8>]

Hi...

What i get when i read, is that we have already chosen the karma we are about to receive from this lifetime.
If that is true there are no free will, it's just a ride and you really can't change anything.
It's like a rollercoaster ride, you might think you consciously chosen new tracks along the ride in your life, but you really dont. It's just the experience you get from this ride that makes it feel you change track at some point in your life.

Enjoy the ride and don't let karma bring you down, because if this is true there are no karma. You are just experience the ride of this lifetime, thats all, no more-no less

Do you think i'm off-track.??

[Star1111]

Hi...


What i get when i read, is that we have already chosen the karma we are about to receive from this lifetime.
If that is true there are no free will, it's just a ride and you really can't change anything.
It's like a rollercoaster ride, you might think you consciously chosen new tracks along the ride in your life, but you really dont. It's just the experience you get from this ride that makes it feel you change track at some point in your life.

Enjoy the ride and don't let karma bring you down, because if this is true there are no karma. You are just experience the ride of this lifetime, thats all, no more-no less

Do you think i'm off-track.??


My belief <8>, rather than we choose our karma, is that what we choose (in agreement with Source) the lessons we need to learn to achieve enlightenment. We agree what our life path will be to achieve this.
Karma for me means addressing and resolving things we may have done in a past life and that we agree to come back again to release/resolve that karmic debt ergo to achieve enlightenment
Sometimes we achieve it, sometimes we move away from our Life Path (for whatever reason) so there is free will.

Just my view

[Mark]

There seems to be a difference between Fate and Destiny. Destiny is like the Sun burning in the sky, the planets encircling it. Fate is choice, the things we decide day by day that don't necessarily have to be. Fate leads to Destiny remorselessly, but we can't see that from our vantage point. I prefer to think of time and space as a bubble, within which we cannot see the full trajectory of our intentions and decision. Outside of time and space, though, all is simultaneously visible. Any entity outside of it can see the past, present and future at the same time, this is the realm from which prophecy originates. We have free will to do what we wish, but it is already decided, because time and space are illusory. It seems contradictory but it is not. It makes perfect sense.

[Lord Sidious]

That is assuming that each of us is here to experience and learn.
What if some of us are only back to help others?
That we are actors?

[jagman]

Interesting thread,<8>, I have often pondered this question many times. Interesting, You chose a roller coaster analogy when describing our lives.
There are many ups and downs in life, And sometimes our lives are turned upside down!
When I was a young man I made stupid mistakes!( which usually involved excessive drinking) or just not thinking
how my actions would effect other people. The Bible does give some credence to karma.
Galatians 6:7-8: "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting."

[Fred Steeves]

What if some of us are only back to help others?
That we are actors?

I could add, that we also help ourselves in doing so?

Cheers,
Fred

[Tony]

Ah..we created the karma for this life!
We are also creating the karma for the next life now.
As you sow, so you reap.
Each moment creates the next moment.
At each moment we can change direction.
It is called spontaneous presence.

But we fall into the same old,
same old habitual patterns = more of
that karma.

Just lookout for those cross-roads in life!
The moment of choice and change.
The moment of no karma.

[<8>]

That is assuming that each of us is here to experience and learn.
What if some of us are only back to help others?
That we are actors?


Interesting, are you suggesting the people you are referring to make us change tracks..?

[<8>]

What if some of us are only back to help others?
That we are actors?

I could add, that we also help ourselves in doing so?

Cheers,
Fred

What do you mean, is there a bonussystem im not aware of "yet" ??..(lack of better words)

[Lord Sidious]

What if some of us are only back to help others?
That we are actors?

I could add, that we also help ourselves in doing so?

Cheers,
Fred

We may not be able to benefit if we have learned all we need to here, but we get some type of other benefit.
I don't know more, this is just a feeling that I have been getting recently.



That is assuming that each of us is here to experience and learn.
What if some of us are only back to help others?
That we are actors?


Interesting, are you suggesting the people you are referring to make us change tracks..?

That is exactly what I am suggesting.
Not only that, we are your catalysts.

[Fred Steeves]

What if some of us are only back to help others?
That we are actors?

I could add, that we also help ourselves in doing so?

Cheers,
Fred

What do you mean, is there a bonussystem im not aware of "yet" ??..(lack of better words)

Nah, I'm still talking generally in karmic terms. Here's a for instance: I'm fairly convinced that during a certain period in my soul's (so called) evolution, I was deeply in league with the "bad guys" we talk about so much here. Talk about karma. I'm just proposing that in order to make the final leap of freeing ones self from that karma, such a soul must eventually come face to face with that aspect of itself, and demonstrate love and forgiveness despite the circumstances.

Service to others would go a long way towards that.

Cheers,
Fred

[<8>]

What if some of us are only back to help others?
That we are actors?

I could add, that we also help ourselves in doing so?

Cheers,
Fred

We may not be able to benefit if we have learned all we need to here, but we get some type of other benefit.
I don't know more, this is just a feeling that I have been getting recently.



That is assuming that each of us is here to experience and learn.
What if some of us are only back to help others?
That we are actors?


Interesting, are you suggesting the people you are referring to make us change tracks..?

That is exactly what I am suggesting.
Not only that, we are your catalysts.

With your suggestion i purpose most of the people on Avalon are one, at least if you go around planting seeds.
Great responsibility, i hope you planting sunflowers..:hippie:

[Tarka the Duck]

Hello 8 - thank you for the interesting thread!

According to Buddhism, things are not predetermined or prewritten - there is no fate or destiny. Alexander Berzin uses the word "impulse" when writing about karma, and says that based on previous actions we have done, impulses will arise within us to act in a particular way. Our actions build up a kind of potential, a storehouse of habits and the more they are reinforced, the more likely it is that we will repeat that kind of behaviour in some way.

BUT…we always have a choice! We are not children who lack the ability to stop themselves from "acting out". That's the point of training in practice such as meditation and mindfulness - it helps us become more aware of what we are saying, thinking and doing and therefore, we are more able to see our choices.

Do you think, in the west, we have a tendency to muddle the idea of 'karma' and the idea of the 'will of God'?

[letmedanz]

I think you are right in the way you are heading.

I would probably relate to a train on its tracks.
the final destination is already set.
the only choice (if you can call it so) is the way the train vibrates & shakes while moving on the tracks.
the movement of the train this way or that are the 'choices' we make. very minimal.
the destiny & the path to be taken is set.

every single person your life, your loved ones, your friends, folks you do not get along with, are all those you have interacted with in an earlier journey of the soul.
you are here in the place that you are, cos you have to balance things out - which we call karma.

not necessary to be good or bad, but just a way of clearing your debts as such...

[<8>]

Hello 8 - thank you for the interesting thread!

According to Buddhism, things are not predetermined or prewritten - there is no fate or destiny. Alexander Berzin uses the word "impulse" when writing about karma, and says that based on previous actions we have done, impulses will arise within us to act in a particular way. Our actions build up a kind of potential, a storehouse of habits and the more they are reinforced, the more likely it is that we will repeat that kind of behaviour in some way.

BUT…we always have a choice! We are not children who lack the ability to stop themselves from "acting out". That's the point of training in practice such as meditation and mindfulness - it helps us become more aware of what we are saying, thinking and doing and therefore, we are more able to see our choices.

Do you think, in the west, we have a tendency to muddle the idea of 'karma' and the idea of the 'will of God'?


Do you think, in the west, we have a tendency to muddle the idea of 'karma' and the idea of the 'will of God'

I think it's west's greatest weaknes thanks to the closed minded, but with a open mind it can become your greatest strength..

thanks..

[Aurvandil]

Yes, I agree with you, <8>. That would explain that even though being bullied 9 years in school, I really try to be as kind and supportive to people around me as I possibly can but always get treated as a human carpet anyway.

I believe in that you get treated by others in the same way you treat them. But, I have never really experienced it. I have hoped to sometime get some support back or even a neutral response instead of a negative bullying one. I work so hard to achieve my goals but there is always something to make it go wrong in the end.

I have come to understand that this is the way my life is and that makes me feel bad almost every day, karma or not, idk... :(:(

[Catsquotl]

hmmm
My take is that when we create the blueprint for our coming lives we make an overview of the sort of experiences we like/need to have.
than we just pick and choose from all the "karmic" experiences that need to be played out on earth.
I have this notion that all that ever thought up or instigated (even ideas) somehow need to be fulfilled.. So there is plenty to choose from.

Some we pick from the mind..
some from the heart..
some from the cells of matter we use this life.
all of them however always chosen from Soul....

With Love
Eelco

[Guest]

Well I am all for changing the dream.

Sometimes I think -we as humans are awfully hard on ourselves. What we truly want and are -we don't even realize it; is Love and we have truly very creative ways in denying ourselves Love.

I guess that's my Karma Dharma -movie thriller of the day.

And Fred S. I think you have allways been one of the good guys.:)

Nora

we are all related

[Tarka the Duck]

I think you are right in the way you are heading.

I would probably relate to a train on its tracks.
the final destination is already set.
the only choice (if you can call it so) is the way the train vibrates & shakes while moving on the tracks.
the movement of the train this way or that are the 'choices' we make. very minimal.
the destiny & the path to be taken is set.

every single person your life, your loved ones, your friends, folks you do not get along with, are all those you have interacted with in an earlier journey of the soul.
you are here in the place that you are, cos you have to balance things out - which we call karma.

not necessary to be good or bad, but just a way of clearing your debts as such...

Hello letmedanz

I'm interested in this - at the centre of Buddhist practice is the sense that we can change, that we are not locked into a particular route, a "train track".
We all can (and do) change our karma.

Does your viewpoint fall into the predestined, Will of God viewpoint? That our life is on a "train track' and we have little or no control over that?
Is there a sense of helplessness in that?
And do you feel that the tracks have been laid down in advance? If so, by whom? Is there an all powerful being behind this?
And what role would motivation/intention play?

Sorry - I don't mean to sound as if I am firing questions just at you!

Kathie

[Eternal_One]

Hi...

What i get when i read, is that we have already chosen the karma we are about to receive from this lifetime.
If that is true there are no free will, it's just a ride and you really can't change anything.
It's like a rollercoaster ride, you might think you consciously chosen new tracks along the ride in your life, but you really dont. It's just the experience you get from this ride that makes it feel you change track at some point in your life.

Enjoy the ride and don't let karma bring you down, because if this is true there are no karma. You are just experience the ride of this lifetime, thats all, no more-no less

Do you think i'm off-track.??

That depends on which point of view do you see the thing. From the One Creator point of view, everything happens simultaneously, everything is seen and known. Eternal present.

From your Higher Self point of view, there are certain 'lessons' that you need to learn in your lifetime. Your Higher Self makes sure you learn those lessons you agreed to work on before incarnation. Nothing happens in the vast parts of your life by chance. Your life has been designed with expert grace, balance, and harmony before you came. Your Higher Self will move you to where you need to go for the maximum experiences of your lifetime.

From your own point of view, it seems you have pretty much total free will.

People call those lessons 'destiny' or 'karma'. Destiny if this was a good thing, or karma if it was something negative. It is laughable at best. You are always presented with what is needed for your growth. In this world of duality you have to experience it all; poverty and wealth, illness and health, murderer and victim. The whole spectrum is needed. You are here to experience the full range of emotions and to realize you are the observer of those emotions, and not these emotions themselves.

"The proper role of the entity is in this density to experience all things desired, to then analyze, understand, and accept these experiences, distilling from them the love/light within them"

There are no mistakes. There is nothing wrong. It is all Life; dynamic, ever changing Life. We are all friends and brothers helping each others.

"You are weaving an incredibly vast and beautiful tapestry of moving light, lifetime after lifetime. From your limited consciousness, it is not possible for you to view that tapestry, but there will come a time in your understanding when you will find enough detachment to be able to see what you have created. And you will find it good. Because you are so close to it, and so busy weaving your own strand, you cannot see the boldness or the wonder of the whole. But when you do, you will not want to change one line, one incident, or one moment. You will see that it is all absolutely perfect, exactly as it is, and you will feel the joy and wonder of being part of it."

Stop raking your brain to understand if you have free will or not, just understand that the divine maintain your life and everything else. So enjoy the left and the right of the pendulum, and just remember that the end will be perfectly awesome.

Just remember who you truely are: Divine Love.

Unconditionnal Love, Joy, is your essence - Just be and enjoy!

[DoubleHelix]

One of the best posts I've seen on Avalon in a loooong time. I resonate with your words wholeheartedly.

Much gratitude Eternal_One :)

[Snowbird]

I don't believe that everyone here at this juncture is collecting karmic debt. Some, have come here for reasons that Sid stated and others are here to help to raise the vibrational frequency. Some, currently on Earth, have never been here before. Others, have traveled from some very high places to be a part of this divine transformation.

I was reading something today (what a surprise!) that figuratively hit me up side of the head. It stated that we are here at this time to remember duality and separation. I'm not exaggerating when I tell you that while reading this, a large light blinked completely off and then back on. Is this in preparation for further Earth work(?) because I can't imagine why any soul would need to remember separation.

[another bob]

Do you think i'm off-track.??

Greetings, Friend!

If you have a few moments to examine the issue in more depth, here's an analysis from one of the greatest sages humanity has produced, Sri Ramana Maharshi:



http://www.indiaoz.com.au/hinduism/articles/karma_destiny_maharshi.shtml

Blessings!

[Pete]

so in the act of devoting yourself to service to others you release yourself from the needs of self (ego) and therefore break free from the prison of karma.

[another bob]

Not necessarily, Friend, and could instead simply spawn a shiny new illusionary identity (now I am a devoted servant of others), which is just another act in point of fact, and far from real liberation. Only when the aspirant disappears in the service does it amount to true surrender of the self-position, and regardless of what form it may take, only that service is for all.

Blessings!

[Pete]

does the ego naturally diminish or is it something you can train yourself to loosen its hold?

[Tony]

does the ego naturally diminish or is it something you can train yourself to loosen its hold?

Karma are ideas and reactions we hold onto.

It's in non - r e a c t i n g that karma is not created.
Ego is with us until the moment of enlightenment.
Ego is consciousness without the pure aspect of emptiness.
Once consciousness and emptiness are a unity, and karma
is exhausted = enlightenment.

All the best
Tony

[<8>]

does the ego naturally diminish or is it something you can train yourself to loosen its hold?


Dear Pete...

I am no expert in this, but i guess some parts of the ego you care less about as you grow older and if you start to search who you really are in your journey in life.
You soon notice how the ego parts who was important in your life, starts to fade away and you cant really understand why it was so important in the first place.
It´s a feeling of freedom when you start to lose your ego part in life..

Good luck on your journey............:washing:

[OnyxKnight]

I'm no stranger to the concept of karma. And yes, I believe that something along those lines that set the definition of karma does exist in reality.

I just happen to think that things are not set in stone, and waiting for us to experience them. Mainly the aspect of karma dealing with all things 'predestined' or 'preordained', or 'predetermined' to happen. I don't buy that at all.

It not only goes against the concept of free will, but also against the concept of multiple timelines. It boxes you into one trajectory of events that are "set" to happen to you whether you like it or not.

I also don't think people come back to choose what kind of life they will experience this time around. There may be certain conditions that could be met, but definitely not the entire set of events that should transpire till the lifetime is over.

Yes, a lot of us feel we have had past lives and are now here for "unfinished business". True, we are. We just don't "set" the lifetimes in our liking so we actually finish the "business" (whatever that may be) in time. Many of us don't even know what "business" that is. We are still searching.

So life boils down to experiences. Mostly random ones. We take what we get. Despite of few details that could be chosen, I don't think there is much to arrange.

The purpose of life boils down to goals and achievements. The sooner we realize what we are here for, the more time we have to reach the goal, or accomplish what we came to accomplish here. Before that, we have a long battle with the "amnesia effect".

Some of us may have ended up in the wrong pile. And its hard to 'remember' when you are among the crowd there. Many who nowadays are in the high circles of power and decision-making. Some of them, who have won against the battle with the "amnesia" that haunted them, are now what we would call "white hats". Pulling strings and making things happen from the backseat of the PTB dominion.

I'm a strong supporter of the Free Will concept, therefore, I take in consideration only some aspects of karma. The rest is philosophical residue piled up by people who had a hard time coping with certain things that happen in their lives. We always prefer solid, calculated things. We are never fans of random occurrences. This is why the concept of karma has become so complicated during the time it has been treated mentally by humans.

[cheez_2806]

yeh~I came across that in the Michael talbot's book called the HOLographic Universe~

it mentions about how in this life what ever has happened is what we have planned in the previous life to either make up for previous mis-doings etc or to learn a particular lesson that has not yet been accomplished.He provides good evidence in the book where Near death experience people who have come back and told that the events either unpleasant or pleasant experienced in this life, they themselves planned it. Such as this lady planned that during this life to experience being raped in order to learn more about herself and the meaning of life or something...I can't remember well what is was she wanted to learn but she hadn't accomplished it in her previous life so she had set up a event like this in this life.

And its a great book by the way~

[OnyxKnight]

yeh~I came across that in the Michael talbot's book called the HOLographic Universe~

it mentions about how in this life what ever has happened is what we have planned in the previous life to either make up for previous mis-doings etc or to learn a particular lesson that has not yet been accomplished.He provides good evidence in the book where Near death experience people who have come back and told that the events either unpleasant or pleasant experienced in this life, they themselves planned it. Such as this lady planned that during this life to experience being raped in order to learn more about herself and the meaning of life or something...I can't remember well what is was she wanted to learn but she hadn't accomplished it in her previous life so she had set up a event like this in this life.

And its a great book by the way~

Taken that in consideration, do you still believe in the concept of multiple timelines?

[another bob]

does the ego naturally diminish or is it something you can train yourself to loosen its hold?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gftjbhpkJdo&feature=player_embedded

Blessings!

[Margi]

Yes, I have chosen karma in this life. :) But I think it is only the beginning of subsequent choices.
For example:
I have chosen in this life to get into an environment that would contribute to my spiritual upliftment. My next choice was to lose years in self-pity and vegetation, while the figure that this is not accidental. And the refusal could see beyond the ego actually unfavorable results in disease.
Unless asked, "Why?".
Then it was a long way to understanding and acceptance of the fact that this is an experience which leads me to step forward sight.
I had to go again and again in every situation that has led to a revolt of the ego, until there is no other emotion than love and forgiveness.
For me, karma is a simple law - the feeling of love is above everything.
I'm not saying it's easy, on the contrary - every day is a challenge, but I am glad that timid spark has turned into a luminous light that grows every day.
Very, very please excuse me, I do not speak English well, but I wanted to share and thank you for the opportunity I have to do it.

Regards,
Margi

[Pete]

does the ego naturally diminish or is it something you can train yourself to loosen its hold?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gftjbhpkJdo&feature=player_embedded

Blessings!

and blessings to you, i have now watched a number of his vids. It is clear that this process is happening and I havent even been consciously looking for it. I now understand the act of looking for it stops the process the point is to do nothing and let it be what it is going to be (is that a beetle song?).

it also highlighted to me how we have been controlled, the way that celebrity culture or the lottery keeps us in a state of self and cuts us off from spiritual awareness, because we spend our time daydreaming about a life that meets the needs of the self and a future based upon making our self feel worthy.

pete

[another bob]

the point is to do nothing and let it be what it is going to be


Here it is impossible for you to be without effort. When you go deeper, it is impossible for you to make any effort.

~Sri Ramana Maharshi

Blessings!