The courage to deny your families and loved ones bcos they r wrong

[raymond]

The biggest lesson for humanity to learn isn't about love.

It is about the courage to embrace change, the courage to do the right thing, the courage to face down your own family and loved ones because they are wrong and you are right.

Let's face it, we all grow up seeking love and acceptance from our family and loved ones. But how many of our family and loved ones are Wise Buddhas/Christ?

Most of our families and loved ones are ignorant delusional fools who doesn't know right from wrong.

To make matters worse, they force their way of life upon you because they mistakenly think that their life of corruption is the right one.

They will say, "why aren't you following our way of life? we love you so this is why we want you to be like us.."

It is like those gross demons/succubus/vampires in hell dragging you into hell. The hell of love. The hell of delusion and ignorance.

And in order to save yourself, you have to deny their ignorant delusional love.

You have to destroy their way of life in order to create a new way of life for yourself.

[Phoenix]

Awesome. So true! ...Wise words.

[DNA]

I disagree my freind.



Most of our families and loved ones are ignorant delusional fools who doesn't know right from wrong.




Where ever we are is exactly where we are supposed to be.
I really do believe that. :)

[Limor Wolf]

The biggest lesson for humanity to learn isn't about love.

It is about the courage to embrace change, the courage to do the right thing, the courage to face down your own family and loved ones because they are wrong and you are right.

Let's face it, we all grow up seeking love and acceptance from our family and loved ones. But how many of our family and loved ones are Wise Buddhas/Christ?

Most of our families and loved ones are ignorant delusional fools who doesn't know right from wrong.

To make matters worse, they force their way of life upon you because they mistakenly think that their life of corruption is the right one.

They will say, "why aren't you following our way of life? we love you so this is why we want you to be like us.."

It is like those gross demons/succubus/vampires in hell dragging you into hell. The hell of love. The hell of delusion and ignorance.

And in order to save yourself, you have to deny their ignorant delusional love.

You have to destroy their way of life in order to create a new way of life for yourself.

And where were you Raymond,a few years ago? were you born 'enlightened'? are you now? is our soul worth more than other's souls? is it that our families manipulate us just like demons do? are they really parasites or is it that their intentions are pure in its own way?

Do we all get love and acceptance from our families? must it be in the image of Buddha/christ?

Are THEY all wrong?
Are WE all right?

?

do we have to destroy instead of rebuild ?

Is it really They vs Us?


stay strong!

:hug:

Limor

[fifi]

You have to destroy their way of life in order to create a new way of life for yourself.

I disagree. I respect everybody's free will and choice, and hope they respect mine. Everybody has their own evolutionary path. One can lead by example, but let everyboby else chooses their own growth.

[raymond]

The biggest lesson for humanity to learn isn't about love.

It is about the courage to embrace change, the courage to do the right thing, the courage to face down your own family and loved ones because they are wrong and you are right.

Let's face it, we all grow up seeking love and acceptance from our family and loved ones. But how many of our family and loved ones are Wise Buddhas/Christ?

Most of our families and loved ones are ignorant delusional fools who doesn't know right from wrong.

To make matters worse, they force their way of life upon you because they mistakenly think that their life of corruption is the right one.

They will say, "why aren't you following our way of life? we love you so this is why we want you to be like us.."

It is like those gross demons/succubus/vampires in hell dragging you into hell. The hell of love. The hell of delusion and ignorance.

And in order to save yourself, you have to deny their ignorant delusional love.

You have to destroy their way of life in order to create a new way of life for yourself.

And where were you Raymond,a few years ago? were you born 'enlightened'? are you now? is our soul worth more than other's souls? is it that our families manipulate us just like demons do? are they really parasites or is it that their intentions are pure in its own way?

Do we all get love and acceptance from our families? must it be in the image of Buddha/christ?

Are THEY all wrong?
Are WE all right?

?

do we have to destroy instead of rebuild ?

Is it really They vs Us?


stay strong!

:hug:

Limor

I was not born "enlightened" but I always had a sense of right and wrong which grew dimmer due to the pressure to conform over the last 2 decades. Then when things happen last year, my sense of right and wrong flared back up again..

The demons manipulate us through our families.. usually humans with weaker divine wills whose consciousness is so easily manipulated by higher dimensional entities..

To me, the evolution and enlightenment of my own soul is far more important than the evolution and enlightenment of other souls.. if you can't even help yourself, how do you help others?

A demon can have a very pure intent of delusion and ignorance when he wants you to fall.

To rebuild, first you must destroy.

[DNA]

Reincarnation being what it is, we are all somewhere on the curve.

I would worry about your own issues before I would worry about anyone else's.
Maybe you just need a prolonged vacation from folks as you go on an elongated journey of introspection.

Most folks reach a point where they need to dive within; when they find life as usual too distracting and detrimental to their progress.
Nothing wrong with detaching from folks for a while.

I think it would do you a lot better than taking it upon yourself to start preaching fire and brimestone. :)

[truth4me]

I love my daughter dearly. She has given me 3 wonderful grandchildren but her lifestyle has put a wedge between her and our family. I love her but I cannot accept lying nor stealing nor drug use in my family circle. I've been where shes at and I know how to escape those demons. I've explained it to her but as long as she continues on her course I stay clear and let her learn her lessons she chosen to take in the school of life......

[DNA]

I love my daughter dearly. She has given me 3 wonderful grandchildren but her lifestyle has put a wedge between her and our family. I love her but I cannot accept lying nor stealing nor drug use in my family circle. I've been where shes at and I know how to escape those demons. I've explained it to her but as long as she continues on her course I stay clear and let her learn her lessons she chosen to take in the school of life......

What you say agrees with the title of the thread, but if you read what Raymond is saying, you two are not on the same page.
You are not unique in having this problem truth4me.
I have a sister that has gone the same route.
Drug use is rampent in the US.
Crystal meth, heroine, prescription opiates.
It is such a travesty,,,,,,,,,the "official" war on drugs is just a war on "competitive suppliers".
The US guvment makes so much money on drugs, wether it be the bogus legions of strorm troopers on the payroll or the CIA trafficking drugs into the country.

[truth4me]

I love my daughter dearly. She has given me 3 wonderful grandchildren but her lifestyle has put a wedge between her and our family. I love her but I cannot accept lying nor stealing nor drug use in my family circle. I've been where shes at and I know how to escape those demons. I've explained it to her but as long as she continues on her course I stay clear and let her learn her lessons she chosen to take in the school of life......

What you say agrees with the title of the thread, but if you read what Raymond is saying, you two are not on the same page.
You are not unique in having this problem truth4me.
I have a sister that has gone the same route.
Drug use is rampent in the US.
Crystal meth, heroine, prescription opiates.
It is such a travesty,,,,,,,,,the "official" war on drugs is just a war on "competitive suppliers".
The US guvment makes so much money on drugs, wether it be the bogus legions of strorm troopers on the payroll or the CIA trafficking drugs into the country.I read what Raymond said but I will not let my daughters lifestyle effect me or my son who's staying at home and going to college in our home town. My daughter is not a fool she has got caught up in this 3-d illusion along with the other 90% who also IMHO are caught up in it. Our U.S. government brought the dope show here and are still behind it. Thats the sickening part. They don't care...

[PurpleLama]

With Love, I have the courage not to just *tell* my family that they are wrong, rather to *show* them which way is right. By not telling anyone anything when they are not ready to hear me anyway, I am not just further alienating them from what truth I have discovered for myself. Sometimes it can take a lot more courage, and patience, to walk the walk and not just talk, and the strength to do this comes from Love and nowhere else. I have subsequently reached many more people in my family, for they see the joy and peace of my daily experience, they observe this and decide for themselves to ask for what I have to share.

[Ilie Pandia]

Create a thread about who's "right" and who's "wrong" and you'll definitely have a popular thread :biggrin:... we just love being right don't we? and some of us really like fixing the "wrong" in others...

That being said raymond, I understand where you are coming from. Your thoughts do pass through my mind from time to time! But then I try to remember that "being right" and "being wrong" is the source of all conflict we have here on our planet, while love of ones self and the others is not. (and "crimes of passion" have nothing to do with love :p). Am I right?? :biggrin:

My only suggestion is that we should stop using these words "right and wrong" to describe absolutes. Right and wrong are very subjective in this 3D world we live in. While I believe that at some high consciousness level we all agree what "is right" (is easy to agree at that level when we are one :p), here on this planet now, what is "right" for me, may not be "right" for my brother or my parents. So in the end, I think is possible to follow your path as "right" as you see it, and let others follow their path "right" as they see it, even if from where you're standing their path looks "very wrong"

Right?.... right! :yo:

[greybeard]

Create a thread about who's "right" and who's "wrong" and you'll definitely have a popular thread :biggrin:... we just love being right don't we? and some of us really like fixing the "wrong" in others...

That being said raymond, I understand where you are coming from. Your thoughts do pass through my mind from time to time! But then I try to remember that "being right" and "being wrong" is the source of all conflict we have here on our planet, while love of ones self and the others is not. (and "crimes of passion" have nothing to do with love :p). Am I right?? :biggrin:

My only suggestion is that we should stop using these words "right and wrong" to describe absolutes. Right and wrong are very subjective in this 3D world we live in. While I believe that at some high consciousness level we all agree what "is right" (is easy to agree at that level when we are one :p), here on this planet now, what is "right" for me, may not be "right" for my brother or my parents. So in the end, I think is possible to follow your path as "right" as you see it, and let others follow their path "right" as they see it, even if from where you're standing their path looks "very wrong"

Right?.... right! :yo:

Right Ilie.

Right or wrong are arbitrary positions on a self set scale.
One mans ceiling another mans floor.
Best to get away from holding opinions.
It is as it is.
Tremendous freedom in not having to be right.
Not having to defend a position is a great awakening.
Chris

[Eternal_One]

What is Right or Wrong for you today might not be tomorrow. What is right for you might not be right for others.

Real wisdom is the inner knowingness that each individual is presenting his own truth from his own perspective.

If your wisdom is in balance you do not have to defend your own positions nor destroy the opinions of others.

[Mark]

I understand what you mean and agree. What's right for them isn't right for you. They think you are wrong. They want what is right for you but it is wrong. They have no idea it is wrong because they think it is right. Everyone is right and wrong. But you are right and they are wrong. They are right and you are wrong. Makes perfect sense.

If you follow this path truly you have to give up the normal path. You have to leave the wide highway and take off into the woods, and then up a narrow, treacherous path with steep sides. The higher you get the more treacherous it becomes, you have to literally walk the razor's edge, eventually. I'm speaking of the true, spiritual path as opposed to religion or materialism. Thanks for sharing.

[greybeard]

Eckhart Tolle and Dr David Hawkins go me off labeling.
The spiritual traps are many.
I see situations, events, opinions, levels of consciousness as different than rather than "better than".

The moment I label myself as a spiritual person then I have limited myself and my views of others.
I am not a person--- I am in a human body having a human experience.
I have a function in this life, but thats not what I am.
I could say I am or was a therapist, that was my function.
Truth is unchanging or it is not true.
Functions change.
Body is left behind--- what I am remains.

I accept that as one's out look changes then we may not be on the same wave length as friends and loved ones.
However I now know better than to raise certain subjects with certain people.
I love people as they are, the desire to change them "for the better" has thankfully left me.
I have not lost a friend or loved one through my interest in spiritual matters, even though I left home to pursue Truth.
God is first in my life but I no longer have the need to shout it from the roof tops.
The path of Devotional Non-duality is not easy but well worth while.

Chris

[raymond]

I understand what you mean and agree. What's right for them isn't right for you. They think you are wrong. They want what is right for you but it is wrong. They have no idea it is wrong because they think it is right. Everyone is right and wrong. But you are right and they are wrong. They are right and you are wrong. Makes perfect sense.

If you follow this path truly you have to give up the normal path. You have to leave the wide highway and take off into the woods, and then up a narrow, treacherous path with steep sides. The higher you get the more treacherous it becomes, you have to literally walk the razor's edge, eventually. I'm speaking of the true, spiritual path as opposed to religion or materialism. Thanks for sharing.

I guess I always have this SM tendency in me.

Walking the razor's edge and facing death at every turn all for the sake of gaining the ultimate prize in the end.. Enlightened Immortality..

This game appeals to me much more than the plain old vanilla existence of business, marriage and family

[Mark]

We have to use this language. When we use this language we have a certain set of words that are available. Most people don't use a lot of them. Speaking in terms that most people understand means that we have to use words the way they are used to using them. Anyone who seeks a spiritual path knows about oneness and good and bad and all that. But most people will look at you crazy if you go to them saying there is no such thing. It takes a lot of study to get to the point where you get where they are coming from.

Sometimes it is ok to use regular language. To use words the way most people use them, especially when you are addressing larger audiences. To use the definitions of most people, respecting where people are at and not trying to redefine the language or definitions of common terms just because you are at a different consciousness level then them. Different is fine, but respecting where people are and addressing them in that space is fine too.

[raymond]

Eckhart Tolle and Dr David Hawkins go me off labeling.
The spiritual traps are many.
I see situations, events, opinions, levels of consciousness as different than rather than "better than".

The moment I label myself as a spiritual person then I have limited myself and my views of others.
I am not a person--- I am in a human body having a human experience.
I have a function in this life, but thats not what I am.
I could say I am or was a therapist, that was my function.
Truth is unchanging or it is not true.
Functions change.
Body is left behind--- what I am remains.

I accept that as one's out look changes then we may not be on the same wave length as friends and loved ones.
However I now know better than to raise certain subjects with certain people.
I love people as they are, the desire to change them "for the better" has thankfully left me.
I have not lost a friend or loved one through my interest in spiritual matters, even though I left home to pursue Truth.
God is first in my life but I no longer have the need to shout it from the roof tops.
The path of Devotional Non-duality is not easy but well worth while.

Chris

When man waste his god-given life on earth pursuing impermanent useless goals like money, marriage and family instead of the only truly worthwhile prize -Ｅｎｌｉｇｈｔｅｎｍｅｎｔ, then this is wrong

There are always some paths which offer one far higher rewards than others.

If one would only wake up from Mara's grip.

[Mark]

I guess I always have this SM tendency in me.

Walking the razor's edge and facing death at every turn all for the sake of gaining the ultimate prize in the end.. Enlightened Immortality..

This game appeals to me much more than the plain old vanilla existence of business, marriage and family

I totally get it. I couldn't 'do' normal. I couldn't do it to the point where I was homeless rather than take a 'government or corporate' job. My family tried so hard, and still is. I love them to death and they are finally understanding that I have to 'do me'. If that which we seek is indeed that (Enlightened Immortality) then I expect that we are at a place where this is just what we have to do, irregardless of what anyone thinks.

[Eternal_One]

When man waste his god-given life on earth pursuing impermanent useless goals like money, marriage and family instead of the only truly worthwhile prize -Ｅｎｌｉｇｈｔｅｎｍｅｎｔ, then this is wrong

There are always some paths which offer one far higher rewards than others.

If one would only wake up from Mara's grip.

I personally think everybody is seeking the same thing. We just tend to look for it in the wrong place.

Once you have tried to look for it externally, and that you never found it; you finally start looking inside.

[DNA]

I used to get hung up on everyone needs to get a clue.
I was constantly looking for that extra gear as I was speeding as fast as I could into what I thought was enlightenment.

I picked up an interesting teaching along the way. "The Michael Teachings"
They basically explain how we as immortal souls come here to earth to become lost so to speak.
We start off by picking what are called "chief features" and "over leaves" that help make the whole thing that much more difficult.
These "chief features" are what we would consider our most over riding negative feature, something that might be lessoned but never really conquered.

On top of this you have folks of "differing" soul ages, because we belong to differing "soul groups" that have been flung from the Tao at different times.
As such, it's not a one size fits all system. We have baby souls, infant souls, adult souls, mature souls and old souls.

The number one thing you can do for folks, is be accepting and supportive in what ever they are doing.

[Mark]

On top of this you have folks of "differing" soul ages, because we belong to differing "soul groups" that have been flung from the Tao at different times. As such, it's not a one size fits all system. We have baby souls, infant souls, adult souls, mature souls and old souls.

The number one thing you can do for folks, is be accepting and supportive in what ever they are doing.

I think that is the crux of the issue. Not only that, we have souls that ain't from here too and bodies that may not even have souls in them all walking around with everybody looking the same on the outside but being totally different on the inside. What a holy mess. LOL

If certain things other people did, did not have an affect on my life, being supportive would be easier. If, that is, their choices did not affect my choices and free will. Coming from the perspective of allowing them their lessons even includes that acceptance and support you speak of. Hence, our lessons.

[DNA]

I think that is the crux of the issue. Not only that, we have souls that ain't from here too

Exactly, I don't know if you mean folks who have been born on other planets. But I believe that is the case. I think such instances would be difficult. I think there would be a period of catching up as they adjusted themselves to our physicality and culture.


and bodies that may not even have souls in them all walking around with everybody looking the same on the outside but being totally different on the inside. What a holy mess. LOL Bodies without souls. Hmmmmmmmm. Are you referring to cloning? I don't know if they have that ability, to clone a fuctioning body without a soul to provide an ethical lever, in essense making it a biological robot. A very scary thought though.


If certain things other people did, did not have an affect on my life, being supportive would be easier. If, that is, their choices did not affect my choices and free will. Coming from the perspective of allowing them their lessons even includes that acceptance and support you speak of. Hence, our lessons.

Agreed, hence our lessons. Carlos Castaneda calls such difficult folks placed in our lives "Petty tyrants" and he discusses how these folks play their drama type unconsiously and hook us into a corresponding drama type. Very frustrating, and especially so with family members. "The Celestine Prophecy" helps to point out these drama types and recognizing them does help one "participate" in the lives of these "petty tyrants" without getting so hooked and getting our energy affected or out and out stolen.

[Lettherebelight]

You may have the karma, by dint of one's spiritual progress in a previous life, to be born into a family of high thinkers, or transcendentalists.

One is always placed in circumstances which are ideal for one's continued spiritual advancement.

[Mark]

Exactly, I don't know if you mean folks who have been born on other planets. But I believe that is the case. I think such instances would be difficult. I think there would be a period of catching up as they adjusted themselves to our physicality and culture.

Yes, that is who I was talking about. Star Seeds, Walk-In's, Volunteer Souls. Those who can adjust, the general trend for them seems to be one of not wanting to be here and wanting to do what they can to get out as soon as possible, even to the point of attempting suicide! But, as Dolores Cannon says, most do accomplish their missions ...


Bodies without souls. Hmmmmmmmm. Are you referring to cloning? I don't know if they have that ability, to clone a fuctioning body without a soul to provide an ethical lever, in essense making it a biological robot. A very scary thought though.

When I mention such, I'm speaking primarily of Organic Portals (http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/organic_portals.htm). I've seen others talk about human so-called robots, bodies that are basically just containers, or possessed or some such. I don't know about clones, that's an interesting question.


Agreed, hence our lessons. Carlos Castaneda calls such difficult folks placed in our lives "Petty tyrants" and he discusses how these folks play their drama type unconsiously and hook us into a corresponding drama type. Very frustrating, and especially so with family members. "The Celestine Prophecy" helps to point out these drama types and recognizing them does help one "participate" in the lives of these "petty tyrants" without getting so hooked and getting our energy affected or out and out stolen.

Love Casteneda's work, and Redfield's also. We've got to maintain our 'controlled folly' as taught to Casteneda by Don Juan Matus and become cognizant and consciously in control of our energy output, as well as gaining energy from natural sources, not each other, as the Celestine Prophecies speak of. I think knowledge of these types of self-control helped me and continue to help me during my awakening process. Now they help me to strengthen my resolve along the Path.

[Ineffable Hitchhiker]

This game appeals to me much more than the plain old vanilla existence of business, marriage and family

What if...
THAT very existence, the plain old vanilla kind, was someone else´s path towards "enlightenment"?
The sharing, giving, learning, loving ....all done within the family. No spiritual path taken.
Is that human being worth less than the one following a spiritual path?
I don´t think so.

A family is one of the best places for "spiritual" practise, I think. Not saying that those not in a family aren´t getting practice, though. :)
Everyone is there, where they are meant to be.
There are so many paths and yet we all end at the same destination, in the end.

Who decides which is "the best" path to take and who is keeping score?

Once I read a quote in a book..."If you cannot find joy in taking out the garbage, don´t bother meditating." :becky:

Every morning you wake up and every situation in life, is a lesson for growth, as far as I am concerned. Even a family who is not on the same "wave-length" as you.

[DNA]

Love Casteneda's work, and Redfield's also. We've got to maintain our 'controlled folly' as taught to Casteneda by Don Juan Matus and become cognizant and consciously in control of our energy output, as well as gaining energy from natural sources, not each other, as the Celestine Prophecies speak of. I think knowledge of these types of self-control helped me and continue to help me during my awakening process. Now they help me to strengthen my resolve along the Path.

Amen :)

All I wanted to say was amen, but apparently I have to have 10 characters or I can't post, so I will just say amen again. :)

[greybeard]

Eckhart Tolle said " You will get more growth from three failed relationships than you will from three years on a desert island"

Its true-- I know.

Chris

[Tony]

All sentient beings from an ameba to the ninth level Bodhisattva are moving towards enlightenment. So we are all at varying level of misunderstanding = ignorance, through countless life times.

Once one recognises one's true nature (though this is not enlightenment..yet, as there is much karma to be exhausted!) one achieves a sense of well being, or inner joy.

Then one looks out and sees others, that do not know their true nature, and so sadness arises.
This sadness is compassion = love.

You are merely suffering from love. As someone said, “Stick with it”. It goes with the territory.
I wish everyone suffered in the same way!!!

All the best
Tony

[jp11]

Chris,

"Eckhart Tolle said " You will get more growth from three failed relationships than you will from three years on a desert island""

That is only true if one is open to see or has the willingness to be open to see.

And I like the thinking just the same. And admittedly it took me many years to first be willing to be willing to see...and then to use the seeing to become more of who I find I truly AM.

;)

[Sidney]

The biggest lesson for humanity to learn isn't about love.

It is about the courage to embrace change, the courage to do the right thing, the courage to face down your own family and loved ones because they are wrong and you are right.

Let's face it, we all grow up seeking love and acceptance from our family and loved ones. But how many of our family and loved ones are Wise Buddhas/Christ?

Most of our families and loved ones are ignorant delusional fools who doesn't know right from wrong.

To make matters worse, they force their way of life upon you because they mistakenly think that their life of corruption is the right one.

They will say, "why aren't you following our way of life? we love you so this is why we want you to be like us.."

It is like those gross demons/succubus/vampires in hell dragging you into hell. The hell of love. The hell of delusion and ignorance.

And in order to save yourself, you have to deny their ignorant delusional love.

You have to destroy their way of life in order to create a new way of life for yourself.


BRILLIANT!!!! Thank You!!