Co-creating our reality - Learning from others

[mosquito]

I feel moved to open this thread, not sure what the response will be.

A lot of us were involved in the recent thread which was, rightly, closed by the mods today. For me at least, it raised a lot of important issues. Personally I replied to the thread in a compassionate way, as did the majority of you. But last night I didn't sleep well, having all sorts of unpleasant dreams on the subject of relationships. I woke up today in a less than wonderful mood, and I knew why - hence this thread.

We are all co-creators of our reality and I believe we attract the lessons we need in life, and also the teachers. Teachers need not be in the form we'd like them to be, the universe has a knack of sending little gems to us via the most unusual messengers, and I think that's what happened here over the last few days.

How many of you can honestly look at xxxx's posts and not think "there but for the grace of God go I" ? (I say honestly, honesty often involves being a little brutal with ourselves).

My point is that xxxx had a message for us all, what that message was will be different for everyone, so I'd like to encourage you to look inside and, if you feel so inclined, to share it with us here.

It's only reasonable that I should go first, uncomfortable though it is.

(these are my initial thoughts, all things I need to work on, they're not arranged in any logical way).
Relationships with the other sex, love - sexual love, parental love, filial love, unconditional love - is it possible ? Enlightenment, distraction - we all have distraction techniques, what are they (mine are sleep, sex, the internet and increasingly less, alcohol (no booze for 3 weeks - looking good !)), spiritual arrogance - yep, I've been there too, different paths to enlightenment, children, marriage, instinctual behaviour, compassion, emotional responses.

Note to mods: I hope you understand why I'm starting this thread, but if you think it's not constructive at this stage, feel free to close it, preferably only temporarily.

[Robert J. Niewiadomski]

Dear raymond,

I felt no need to participate in your last thread. This time i have just felt "fine" with your statement. Felt no need to "convert" you or anybody else...

I think i fully comprehend your dire message. But it is "too late" for me to take advantage of it ;)
And to be honest i don't feel i need to return from The Path i walk now in my life.

There are trilion roads leading to enlightment. No particular path is superior to others
and any one will do. If you know where you want to get :)

Maybe this is the problem raymond? People don't need to show them The Road.
There is only a road one of many. People need only to know where they want to get.
The means are not the ends. The ends are the means...

And here i go again. Trying to convert... Shut up me!

I wish you all well raymond.
Robert

PS
I think we blow the gasket too quickly on Avalon ;)
Another lesson finished. Let us learn something from it...

[Tony]

Dear Mariposafe and Robert,
I agree we should try to be honest with ourselves. And I agree we shouldn't try to convert others.
But we can honestly share!

What if I were to say that creating our reality, is not a reality. A creation is a temporary event.
What if I were to say that our paths to enlightenment were not so different. That is why we can share.
What if I were to say that all the roads lead you to where you are now.

[Robert J. Niewiadomski]

I say: Tony, go ahead and say it :)

[KosmicKat]

As RJN says, how can we hope to get somewhere if we don't know where we want to go?

[Tony]

I wrote something today which might start it off. There seems to be two aspects to realising enlightenment. One is realising our true nature, the other is loosing all the fixed ideas put in our minds. Until we can break out of this karmic cycle, we will just keep going round in circles.

Karma is the result of cause and effect.

Let's say we are a bubble of pure consciousness, of no dimension. This pure consciousness just perceives = pure perception, as there is no reaction there is no cause for an effect. Merely pure perception. This pure knowing, knows that there is nothing out there that has any reality, as it is all impermanent, merely parts of atoms moving in out space.

Now, if we do not notice our pure empty nature, we are just left with consciousness, only one side of the equation. When this happens judgements are made, because instead of seeing ourselves and everything as empty of true existence, we now see everything as real, and we want to interact with it. Ego has been created. It now looks out, and likes what is sees, it dislikes what it sees or it ignores what it sees. It is now reacting, as if it were a permanent fixed state so we get very busy creating, looking for happiness.

Because we ignore our true pure nature, we get attracted and repulsed by things. These things that have no true existence have now been given a reality, because we are now reacting to them.

This reaction to temporary object 'out there' leaves an imprint in the bubble, let's make it a black spot. We have identified something, created a concept about it, which we now carry around. We carry on making speculations about things and self, creating more dots. This becomes a filter through which we see everything. That is the effect. The bubble gets foggy with dots.

Actually the bubble itself is as clear as crystal.

We have been collecting information and making judgments for a very long time. These concepts which we hold onto create effects which causes more concepts about the world we see. We interact with others and the world reacts to us because of our reaction. This is karma, the imprints in our bubble create karma, the world we live in.

The world we live in maybe different from your neighbours. As you sow so you reap. It is not punishment, it just is.....justice!
This is why it is so important to be at peace. As there are so many distractions out there, and in the mind, we need constant reminding.

So enlightenment is realising our true nature and exhausting karma. Realising our enlightened nature which the unity of Emptiness and Consciousness, which causes Compassion to arise...that's the easy bit. Exhausting karma = not reacting....that is not so easy.

Tony

[mosquito]

Beautifully put Tony, thank you ;)

[Guest]

Honestly I felt a little discombobulated by the thread and I watched a lot of people put a lot of effort into helping and supporting him there was a lot of love and compassion and wisdom. And I also realized how much his spirit was trying to push throught the illusion....and how much he was resisting. He was also giving us a beautiful gift to move through our own illusions or my own creations of illusions and awaken more....or become more self realized. -I just wish he could see the gift he was giving himself and me.... and I have been through quite bit in this life and been stuck and had what I would call dark night of the soul experiences that almost killed me. I created them and the universe responded....in like and spirit and Spirit intervened. Love does not have a face -I put the face on Love and I suffer as long as I deny myself Love -my true nature. I would like to say -that the people, threads, posts -everything here has given and is giving me many blessings.... in beautiful and unimaginable ways. Thank you for the thread Mariposafe

Love

Nora

we are all related

[mosquito]

Thank you Nora so much, I have tears in my eyes (nearly typed ears there).

This is precisely why I started this thread.

Love, Philip

[Anchor]

Every nuance of every happening, has its reason and purpose for each of us.

We are all here as a group for a reason, and threads happen for a reason, and even people breaking rules and that being dealt with and us having to watch that particular "car crash" happening in slow motion is for a reason.

Even the mental review and discussion and the alternate points of view are put forward, as the learning and wisdom is shared and processed - yes even that has a reason.

But the most important thing, and it is as discernible in this thread as it was the one that is the subject of it, is love and forgiveness.

[Robert J. Niewiadomski]

In case nobody has noticed. Raymond has left the forum. His account is in unsubscribed state...