Don't be so easily upset....or elated.

[Tony]

Don't be so easily upset....or elated. In the west we are indoctrinated to be individuals, but the outcome seems to have the opposite effect. We fall into being a caricatures.

If one goes to say Nepal, there are many monasteries full of nuns, monks and lay practitioners.
These are spiritual practitioners. Over forty years I have attended many teachings and seminars.
One notices how ordinary these practitioners are. In fact the ordinariness is extra-ordinary. There seems to be no individuals.

It is said that when a realised person eats, they just eat, when they walk, they just walk, when they sit, they just sit. When in the company of these beings, there is no individual trying to out do the others. One just observes a sea of practitioners.

In the east or 'old world', the individual is not that important. The point of spiritual practice is to lose this self identity.

The picture is different in the west or 'new world'. Someone gets an itch, and they shout that they are ascending! The west is full of individuals, touchy individuals. The word “I” is foremost in our language. We grab hold of bits of teachings, and think we have the whole picture and call it our own. We try to reinvent ancient teaching to reinvent ourselves, to shine out.

It is said that teachings cannot be destroyed from the outside, but they can be destroyed from the inside. The west has had distortions put into it, not least of all the spiritual community.

There is no need to be touchy about being a westerner. :frusty:We are very sharp, our minds are very fast, we are energised. But we are also very emotional. It is here that we as westerners have to work.

Pride, jealously, anger, fear and ignorance is what we seem to live on. If a statement is made and people take it personally, that is ego reacting. This is merely the emotions in control. Spiritual work is very subtle, we have to use our sharpness to look more closely at our own minds.:thumb:

All the best,
Tony

[Jay]

Just to add to thanks - thank you so very much Pie'ne'al for some healing words :-)

[norman]

anaesthetization for the person that's got everything.

I dunno, but I get the feeling that passive comfort, in the face such obvious carnage, isn't what we are here for.

I'm willing to be proven wrong, but it'll take more than a unification church to swing it.

Drugs have a similar effect. They give us the feeling without the organic structure. When I see groups of peacful practitioners ignoring the state of the rest of the world I wonder why they are allowed to be so. It's a bit like "follow the money" but in this case it's more like "follow the path of least resistance".

I think that's a principle that certain very unpleasant folk around here would find very agreeable to them and their ambitions.

Each to their own, I suppose. I'm not insisting that I'm 'right'. I just don't get how some folks don't seem to give a damn about anything other than some self notion they are first class travellers in the universe while others are in the cheap seats that have been bunched up close to give them more leg room.

[Tony]

anaesthetization for the person that's got everything.

I dunno, but I get the feeling that passive comfort, in the face such obvious carnage, isn't what we are here for.

I'm willing to be proven wrong, but it'll take more than a unification church to swing it.

Drugs have a similar effect. They give us the feeling without the organic structure. When I see groups of peacful practitioners ignoring the state of the rest of the world I wonder why they are allowed to be so. It's a bit like "follow the money" but in this case it's more like "follow the path of least resistance".

I think that's a principle that certain very unpleasant folk around here would find very agreeable to them and their ambitions.

Each to their own, I suppose. I'm not insisting that I'm 'right'. I just don't get how some folks don't seem to give a damn about anything other than some self notion they are first class travellers in the universe while others are in the cheap seats that have been bunched up close to give them more leg room.

Hello Norman,
Who said anything about not caring? We are talking here about spiritual matters. There are some who choose to see that this is all about consciousness. That is their right.
Continuing in a world of strife, by just adding to it, doesn't seem that practical. I respect what you are saying, but we all work in different ways.

You are angry, that shows intelligence, but who are you fighting against? Look more closely we are doing something.

[motherlove]

Well put pie'n'eal these are the lessons many are waking up to. I'm always in awe of an idea whose time has come. Best Wishes.

[Tarka the Duck]

Each to their own, I suppose. I'm not insisting that I'm 'right'. I just don't get how some folks don't seem to give a damn about anything other than some self notion they are first class travellers in the universe while others are in the cheap seats that have been bunched up close to give them more leg room.

I appreciate your honesty! So I am going to be honest too!
When it comes to the the concept of ascension, I have to agree what you wrote above. But...

There is a danger of believing the stereotype of spiritual practitioners who are unworldly hermits who have retreated from this world because they cannot cope with the demands it makes upon us all. There are some who have chosen to have do that for a time, in order to refine their practice and understanding. Many others are involved in the world, working on a practical level, just like you and me.

The key motivation for us Buddhists is the wellbeing of all sentient beings: every prayer contains this wish.
Whether or not you choose to believe that this could be beneficial or effective is up to the individual.

The point of this thread, I think, is to try to remain clear, stable and level-headed.

I feel there are many ways in which to work...some have a focus on changing the inner world, and others focus on the outer world.

What do you think we should be doing?

[toothpick]

Hi pie'n'eal
Man, you have a lovely way with words, love it.
Probably we could all try and step out of our ego,s now and then, i know that i should, with the goal being to leave the ego behind forever, been working on it.
Some, i,m sure can drop the ego and move on to betterment immediately, while still overs stuggle to shed the ego.
Please , continue sharing your wisdom and experience, i really do enjoy it.

[Tony]

anaesthetization for the person that's got everything.

I dunno, but I get the feeling that passive comfort, in the face such obvious carnage, isn't what we are here for.

I'm willing to be proven wrong, but it'll take more than a unification church to swing it.

Drugs have a similar effect. They give us the feeling without the organic structure. When I see groups of peacful practitioners ignoring the state of the rest of the world I wonder why they are allowed to be so. It's a bit like "follow the money" but in this case it's more like "follow the path of least resistance".

I think that's a principle that certain very unpleasant folk around here would find very agreeable to them and their ambitions.

Each to their own, I suppose. I'm not insisting that I'm 'right'. I just don't get how some folks don't seem to give a damn about anything other than some self notion they are first class travellers in the universe while others are in the cheap seats that have been bunched up close to give them more leg room.

Hello Norman,
As we all want to be honest, if I were in a battle I'd have you on my side!
If you knew me, I am very earth and passionate. I spent my life wanting
to throttle everyone!

A new direction came up, after years of questioning.
I was told to use the 'sword of wisdom'.

All the best
Tony