Occupy Movement moving into globalist trap

[Maia Gabrial]

This is on the latest Red Ice Creations Newsletter.

http://redicecreations.com/article.php?id=17287

How quickly this noble cause got hijacked....

[Providence]

This is on the latest Red Ice Creations Newsletter.

http://redicecreations.com/article.php?id=17287

How quickly this noble cause got hijacked....

What's amazing is how you have taken on the role of judge and jury, as our MSM often does, without really knowing all the facts. I know enough about the movement that it will go before all of the people (the 99%) for discussion and vote. This article seems to assume that there is a small group of decision makers for OWS, and that they are pushing this initiative, which is incorrect. This is a people's movement, and they support like-minded causes as a rule, but don't adopt them as a part of the OWS movement. Just as the union workers came out in support of OWS, both factions were represented, they did not become joined at the hip, they just shared many of the same goals.
If you want to follow the discussion on this topic, you can go to the OWS site:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/any-thoughts-on-the-robin-hood-tax-ie-in-conjuncti/

[GCS1103]

This is on the latest Red Ice Creations Newsletter.

http://redicecreations.com/article.php?id=17287

How quickly this noble cause got hijacked....

What's amazing is how you have taken on the role of judge and jury, as our MSM often does, without really knowing all the facts. I know enough about the movement that it will go before all of the people (the 99%) for discussion and vote. This article seems to assume that there is a small group of decision makers for OWS, and that they are pushing this initiative, which is incorrect. This is a people's movement, and they support like-minded causes as a rule, but don't adopt them as a part of the OWS movement. Just as the union workers came out in support of OWS, both factions were represented, they did not become joined at the hip, they just shared many of the same goals.
If you want to follow the discussion on this topic, you can go to the OWS site:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/any-thoughts-on-the-robin-hood-tax-ie-in-conjuncti/

Hi. Providence-

I read your post in response to Maia Gabrial's. Have you been down to NYC during this occupation? On another thread I gave a short response to what I saw the 4 times I have been there. (I live right outside the city, so it's easy for me to go). It's not a prettty scene. I don't watch the MSM so I don't know what they're reporting, but I can tell you that there are drummers and other musicians playing for people(that's not a criticism, just an observation), the place is quite dirty, you cannot get the same answer from two people as to what they want in a "coherent" way, no one knows how their requested changes are to be implemented, there is some serious disagreements between some of the people there and, if I may use the expression- there are some "provocateurs" walking around who are known to some of us. I posted more information on the other thread, but I would be happy to outline the Soros connection for you, if you want.

His handiwork (and organizations) are all over this movement. I listed the names of the groups that are involved and I SAW some of his people there and named them in my post. I agree that the original intent was wonderful. Unfortunately, the opportunists have come in, with other goals in mind.

[Providence]

I appreciate your perspective, and no, I live too far away to participate, although I would LOVE to go, and I would probably get arrested if I tried to fly there as I have real problems with the TSA. B-)

I also do not watch MSM, except for pieces here and there that I pick up from the Internet. I know exactly what you are saying, and I do respect your observations. As of right now, I believe that the movement is real and valid and not a ploy of the PTB or any other related faction. I know there are differing viewpoints on this subject and I try to read them all with an open mind. I am not really basing my judgement on anything other than my personal experience and what information I have gathered through the Occupy Movement resources/critiques. And although you see the diversity of opinion as a serious negative, I see the respect they show for the diversity of opinion, mixed with the genuine show of unity as a group, as one of the most convincing arguments that this is actually a people's movement. Too much emphasis is being placed upon their perceived lack of direction and purpose, neither of which I believe is true.

Only time will tell, but my perception of this movement is something that has reached to my core. I almost see this as the awakening of humanity, that these people have finally found a voice for the injustices that have been wreaked upon the people by the corruptions in government. I hope I'm right, and if this is true, they won't be derailed or hijacked. I may have to eat crow later if I'm wrong, but so be it. I lend them my support in various ways, and I hope to keep out the wolves by sending them peace and love. Even if I can't be there in body, I can send them my support, and I do...

[Ba-ba-Ra]

Always good to get and honor different perspectives. Like most other things happening, and all so quickly, we may never know or understand completely WHO and WHY, but I suspect it's a combination of all of the above.

If the PTB started it, it may be like a huge rolling stone going down a steep hill that they will have a difficult time controlling. Conversely, if the people started it and the PTB are trying (and I'm sure they are) to control it - again, have you ever tried to stop a huge rolling stone once it's in motion. They may be able to divert it, but they'll have a heck of a time controlling it.

I lived in Berkeley, CA during the 60's & 70's and saw a lot of the same things. It was always baffling to me at that time exactly what was happening. There were times when I saw the press manipulating groups of hippies. Literally paying them to march as they filmed them - the press even brought the signs for them to hold. I saw serious students protesting genuinely. I saw some protesting just for the experience and not really having a strong opinion or even knowledge about what it was all about. Military tanks (yes, our military) surrounded the building I worked in - it was very scary as at any moment one could see the many possibilities of what "could" happen. Eventually one of the serious "coulds" did happen - it was at Kent State. (By the way James Michener wrote a great book about the incident at Kent State). Even then (surprise,surprise) the PTB manipulated the situation. HOWEVER, eventually the war in Viet Nam was brought to a halt by all this.

If nothing else, Occupy Wall Street is bringing many facts to light to people who don't normally research or even think about these things - and perhaps generating some good discussion about the economic meltdown, bailout and Fed Reserve.

[GCS1103]

Good posts on this thread. It's interesting to read different prospectives on this important event. My personal fear is that this will turn violent at the slightest provocation. Notice that Mayor Bloomberg has been silent on this occupation. This guy can never keep his mouth shut, but he has barely uttered a word about this movement.

The most hypocritical aspect is when the Hollywood glitteratti show up to lend their support. I saw Kanye West there with more bling around his neck than anyone there could afford in their lifetimes; Susan Sarandon, Alec Baldwin, Michael Moore, Tim Robbins, with a combined net worth of about half a billion dollars. They all showed their faces with the "camera ready smiles." This is what bothers me tremendously. The important point of the movement is being used by certain people who could not care less about the 99%. They ARE part of the 1%. They just happen to make their obscene amounts of income in front of a camera, instead of in a bank.

[Mulder]

Of course every movement can be "subverted" or taken over. Even religions have had "priests" etc, who are really there to take advantage of followers financially or sexually. I think the occupy movement shows more of the truth to the public, so this has to be a good thing. Even if it is totally taken over, then people can leave it and a new movement needs to be founded.

[jjjones]

Hi friends! Just would like to say that I am concerned about the fact that since the beginning of OWS i still haven't any idea who the "ones" are that started this movement. no names have been identified. Things seem so vague as to the major cause they are uniting for. There are many good causes that the 99 are there for and speaking up. Speaking up Isn't repeating the words of somebody else. Speaking up is speaking what is on each individuals mind, not repeating in chorus fashion. It is time that we stop being puppeted by the puppeteer/ puppeteers. we must be focused and start unraveling the top of the pyramid first and rid the world of central private banking and fiat toilet paper money. Until then we cannot be free people worldwide and take our control of our countries and lives back. we need to abolish slavery once and for all. We need to proudly proclaim that we are "people" NOT "sheople"! it sits uneasy in me that there seems to be too many wolves in sheep's clothing there. Or better yet I shall say it does not sit well with me that SOROS, Pres.O,senators, congress and other gov officials and some wall street elite are in support of this protest, when their votes, bankers and Fed reserve got us DELIBERATELY in this MESS/DEPRESSION in the first place WORLDWIDE. I am just skeptical about this. Doesn't make any kind of sense at all. At this point in time i just don't feel at ease with my perception of some of ows supporters. Hopefully our insight and awareness has risen to a level that our choices and words will unite us and makes us stronger and see the wolves. namaste, peace and love universally :)

[Nasu]

My old school gut tells me that if this chess move is successfull, this movement will ultimately favor the few, not the many. I hope we can all agree that the 1% (under the flags of a few hundered key groups, funds, countries, corporations and families) interested parties that dominate our world, by way of ownership, influence or favors, do not represent capitolism, but rather collectivism. The efforts of the 99% are well funnelled into the mouths of the 1%, with very little true market competition between themselves. Who gains? Wall St or Main St? Or neither, Wall St, represents our whipping master at best, not our owners, or theirs and not the system behind them or the games being played behind that.

A successfull world-wide movement, snowballing from a growndswell of grass roots support to include members of every demographic, all calling for change, reform, equality.. Problem, reaction, solution; Problem - corporate greed, economic unrest, currency crashes. Reaction - The latest great depression, stalled economy, grass roots movement for change. Solution - corporate reforms, one world economy, one world currency. But guess who gets to enforce the solution? The players who have sown the seeds and set this whole drama into the game.

Think - Internet Forums / Occupy Wall St: Techniques for dilution...

Its just my opinion, but I feel that no matter how heartfelt and well meaning this movement is, it is doomed to be used as a pawn. I support them and their intent, much like our troops in far away wars, but not the game behind it. Don't hate the players right?.... N

[jorr lundstrom]

I think the participants can learn one thing from this. It wont help screeming

in the streets while the banksters drink champagne on the balconies saluting

them. It wont move the banksters an inch, but maybye the 99% get a little bit

wiser. I think Lennon was wrong, love is great but you need more. :tape2:

[Buck]

As we talk about this movement, a "movement" that refuses to conform to the very notion of what a political movement "should" be doing, I think it is important to acknowledge how it is already serving all of us in a very positive and cathartic way. For example, just reading this thread, it is plain to see that this conundrum, just the experience of this event, is bringing all kinds of stuff to the surface for all of us. It has inspired a great and very intense global dialogue, and that is no small accomplishment!

For some, the appearance of change, the dirt, the noise is unsettling. For others it is the unshakeable conviction that chaos is always beneficial to those in power.
These are fears, and they can be examined and questioned out in the open air of the public forum. And thanks to this global event, we can help each other, really help each other, to realize the inherent distortions and falsehoods that have been instilled in us.

"do not represent capitolism, but rather collectivism."
Capitalism is the appropriate path, and "collectivism" as you put it, is the dead end?

For example- this comment that I highlighted above- this event brings out a very popular fear- one that the ruling oligarchs have been working diligently, for years, to instill in us; the fear that if we dare to "take our eye off the ball" of self interest, the discipline of self, the holy altar of capitalism, if we stop and consider, for a moment, our relationship to each other- to think of each other in a "collective" sense, our entire way of life will come crashing to the ground in a mad filthy orgy of hippies and immigrants, tearing apart the goodness of our once proud nation with their insatiable stupidity and their selfish blind indulgence.

I used to believe that lie. I truly believed that to my core. But I was so much older then :)

And yes, revolution. REAL change, not the prepackaged Obamicized kind of disingenuous change, but real change. It's very messy. People sometimes get hurt. Sometimes it is violent, like a volcano can be. It's loud. There can be a lot of really annoying celebrities and crazy people attracted to the spectacle. It does not obey rules, or curfews. Bathrooms are not kept clean. Room service is not an option. There is no consistent messaging. There is no proper signage, no branding. The spokespeople are too young, or too dark skinned, a lot of them need to take a bath. Some are off their medication, and I would be willing to bet a few of them are even (gasp) high on drugs. There are war veterans, unemployed people of all stripes, some on crutches, some in wheelchairs (if they can afford them that is), teachers (a lot of unemployed teachers these days), single moms with children, whole families with children.

It starts to boil down to what you really believe about yourself. What do you believe about all of us. Leave us in a park, or an empty parking lot, with no police, no military, no leaders. Will you wake up and find your belongings stolen? Will you get a bullhorn and take command of the situation? How will you eat, who would make room for you to lay down, or to help you if you could not pay for the best seat in the restaurant? What possible reason would anyone have to be considerate of each other if there were no police to protect us, no politicians to look after our welfare?

There is no party affiliation, no message, no branding, no corporate sponsorship, nothing to oppose or support. It is only the experience of being connected, in a way that surpasses all human understanding. And that simple truth, that experience, seems to be starting to function like a crucible (in the alchemical sense) to burn away every every lie, every attempt to co-opt or distort the truth of who we really are.

It just might be, that this is not the handiwork of a shadow organization of limousine liberals and their legions of thieves and grifters, but rather exactly what human evolution looks like.

This could be Tunisia, or Egypt, or then again, it could be more like Yemen. Maybe this is that miraculous moment before the wall comes down, or is it the calm before they mow us down with machine guns and the tanks roll over us. Too soon to tell, too soon.

But I for one am grateful for the dialogue. And I am encouraged that the OWS have (so far) refused to wear the correct outfit to the dance.

"The revolution will not be televised"
google it

[Providence]

Good posts on this thread. It's interesting to read different prospectives on this important event. My personal fear is that this will turn violent at the slightest provocation. Notice that Mayor Bloomberg has been silent on this occupation. This guy can never keep his mouth shut, but he has barely uttered a word about this movement.

The most hypocritical aspect is when the Hollywood glitteratti show up to lend their support. I saw Kanye West there with more bling around his neck than anyone there could afford in their lifetimes; Susan Sarandon, Alec Baldwin, Michael Moore, Tim Robbins, with a combined net worth of about half a billion dollars. They all showed their faces with the "camera ready smiles." This is what bothers me tremendously. The important point of the movement is being used by certain people who could not care less about the 99%. They ARE part of the 1%. They just happen to make their obscene amounts of income in front of a camera, instead of in a bank.

I would also like to interject that the OWS movement isn't about class or station in life, whether you have money or not isn't the issue. The issue is the corruption, the greed, the corporatocracy. You can be rich, you can have money and still be one of the 99%.

[norman]

If the outcome of OWS is more global governance ( in the guise of financial 'controls' ), if a genuine movement - it will have failed, if a Soros operation - it will have succeeded.

[Black Panther]

I think the participants can learn one thing from this. It wont help screeming

in the streets while the banksters drink champagne on the balconies saluting

them. It wont move the banksters an inch, but maybye the 99% get a little bit

wiser. I think Lennon was wrong, love is great but you need more. :tape2:

Actually he was right! All we need is love. The problem is those sociopaths
on top of the pyramid don't know what love is. And most of the people protesting
don't know what's really happening in the world.

I don't let anybody attack my friend now he isn't able to defend himself anymore :p

There's room at the top they are telling you still
But first you must learn how to smile as you kill
If you want to be like the folks on the hill

A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be

If you want to be a hero well just follow me
If you want to be a hero well just follow me

[Maia Gabrial]

Now that the OWS movement is getting so large, I have the feeling that it's all been orchestrated by the elites anyway. People need to be careful about asking for change without specifying what kind of change. IMO They'll get the change, but it may be worse than what they've envisioned.... After reading about the Rothschilds' bloodline, I'm sure even this movement was carefully planned down to the last detail. Afterall, these devious people know human nature very well....They'll make you do it their way, one way or another....

[Linger]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Myqffx8Mdg4&feature=player_embedded

[Lord Sidious]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Myqffx8Mdg4

There ya go nugget.

[GCS1103]

Good posts on this thread. It's interesting to read different prospectives on this important event. My personal fear is that this will turn violent at the slightest provocation. Notice that Mayor Bloomberg has been silent on this occupation. This guy can never keep his mouth shut, but he has barely uttered a word about this movement.

The most hypocritical aspect is when the Hollywood glitteratti show up to lend their support. I saw Kanye West there with more bling around his neck than anyone there could afford in their lifetimes; Susan Sarandon, Alec Baldwin, Michael Moore, Tim Robbins, with a combined net worth of about half a billion dollars. They all showed their faces with the "camera ready smiles." This is what bothers me tremendously. The important point of the movement is being used by certain people who could not care less about the 99%. They ARE part of the 1%. They just happen to make their obscene amounts of income in front of a camera, instead of in a bank.

I would also like to interject that the OWS movement isn't about class or station in life, whether you have money or not isn't the issue. The issue is the corruption, the greed, the corporatocracy. You can be rich, you can have money and still be one of the 99%.

I agree, Providence, this isn't about class or station in life. Where you and I differ is "why" these wealthy celebrities are there. I want to tell you a little bit about some of the people that I represent in my practice, only for purposes of explaining that my personal opinions are based on my interactions with them, and no other reason. What I'm going to say is not meant to change your views, it will just explain why I have mine.

I've got my picture (with the incredible Bob Dean) on the forum and I have posted that I'm a practicing attorney in the field of real estate in N.Y. and N.J. What I never discussed are who some of my clients are. Because of the nature of my practice, I have quite a number of what we would call "celebrity" clients. Many are in the music field- I'm talking about clients who fill a venue with 30,000 people as soon as their tickets go on sale. To put it in it's simplest terms, I make these people money in the real estate world. They have my cell number and email address and I have theirs. When it comes to making money, these people are no different than the other 1% that we talk about- they want instant access to you and they demand your personal time. They are FIXATED on making more and more money. They are out there buying up the homes that ordinary people have lost because of the economy. One of my clients, who is fond of his "advocacy of the downtrodden" buys up foreclosed houses for cash, like you and I would buy a toaster. IMO, that client ("I want to be President of Haiti"), like so many of my others who are rolling in money, share one sentiment that brings them to OWS or gets them on stage speaking out about how we all need to do more for the poor. GUILT.

They have a deep sense of guilt about the amount of income they pull in a year and how out of proportion it is to the average person busting their chops making a living. Don't deceive yourself that they really care about what is happening at the OWS site. At the very least, I can tell you that my clients don't. When they show up, it's nothing more than a photo op. Do they hate corporate greed? I believe they do; just like they hate the stomach flu- nothing they would think about, unless it affects them personally.

So, Providence, I just want to open your eyes a little bit based on my dealings with some of these people. Do they donate money to their favorite causes? Absolutely. Mostly, it's the guilt and the tax write offs. That's not to say they don't have sympathy for the poor, they probably do. From afar. They wouldn't give up their life styles and join OWS, or any other group. Remember, they are all employees of a gigantic corporate structure- be it a record label, studio, television station, etc. The very institutions that OWS people are fighting against, interact with these celebrities continuously. They have corporate attorneys, real estate attorneys, tax attorneys , PR people, etc. Very wealthy people DO want to maintain the status quo-the alternative may affect them adversely. So, when they parade around in the city at this movement, know that they do not want the walls to come tumbling down. That's the last thing they want.

I know this sounds very jaded but I have worked with these people for many years. I'm trying to explain the personal side, when they are not on camera. They're just people who have the same good and bad that we all do. Because it's such an ego-driven industry, they have a tendency to want to be at the forefront of any cause to show us how wonderful they are, but it's really "look at me up here" fighting with you.

[Ba-ba-Ra]

GCS1103 I agree with all you said, yet I find it interesting that you have a pix of you with Bob Dean who you describe as incredible. Not don't misunderstand, this is not a critique of Bob, but you do understand that he and his wife Marcia Schafer make money off of the talks, seminars, etc. and that Bob was a 28-yr Army man (I believe sergeant major) where I'm sure he killed or was responsible for killing many. In Bob's early interviews he use to refer to himself as a mean-green fighting machine (lots of ego male testosterone); however since, he has greatly mellowed his talks (I think Marcia is the brains behind that mellowing - but whatever) and because of his advancing age he is now seen as this sweet guy - and maybe he is. Again, this is not about Bob. What I'm trying to point out is that things are often not the way they seem - or people can change consciousness. I'm not standing up for the celebrities of whom you talk, except to say, at least they feel guilty. We are all a part of this crazy world and to some extent we all buy into the money thing. I'd like to think if I were rich, I'd do better, but I don't know that. What I've seen is that no matter how much money a person has, they rarely think it's enough.

As I said, I agree with everything thing you said, I guess where I disagree is in the harsh judgment. Some could say you are just as wrong to make money off these celebs. My only point is that at some level we are all contributing to this crazy money structured society we live in.

[Providence]

Thank you GCS1103, your point is well taken!
No argument here at all. I guess all I wanted to express initially was the premise that this movement wasn't about the haves and have nots. I am not a fan of the celebrities who have 'graced' the OWS movement by their presence, and I never gave much altruistic value to their appearance at the protests. The only positive outcome I saw was that the celebrity-obsessed MSM might give them some air time, thus bringing some publicity to the movement, when the large numbers of protesters and police brutality was swept under the rug.
I appreciate you sharing this perspective!

Much respect!
Providence

[jorr lundstrom]

Black Panther wrote:
Actually he was right! All we need is love. The problem is those sociopaths
on top of the pyramid don't know what love is. And most of the people protesting
don't know what's really happening in the world.


Well, as you wrote yourself "those sociopaths dont know wot love is". Thats

not a small problem in the situation today. You can shield yourself with love

or you can shower love on them, It just aint gonna help. You have to use

something they understand and we must stop them. There was a guy some

months ago on an island outside Oslo in Norway who shot 65 humans, more

than half of them children. He didnt stop until 5 policemen from a special unit

arrived. In the same moment he saw them he put down his guns. There were

some grown ups who tried to talk to the guy and the next moment they were

dead. The situation the worlds population is in is just as severe. We might get

to a situation when we truly can say that "All we need is love". But I think it can

be a very expensive mistake for humanity if we imagine we are on that point now.

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt81/sakasvattaja/AngryBlackPanther.jpg

[craig mitchell]

As we talk about this movement, a "movement" that refuses to conform to the very notion of what a political movement "should" be doing, I think it is important to acknowledge how it is already serving all of us in a very positive and cathartic way. For example, just reading this thread, it is plain to see that this conundrum, just the experience of this event, is bringing all kinds of stuff to the surface for all of us. It has inspired a great and very intense global dialogue, and that is no small accomplishment!

For some, the appearance of change, the dirt, the noise is unsettling. For others it is the unshakeable conviction that chaos is always beneficial to those in power.
These are fears, and they can be examined and questioned out in the open air of the public forum. And thanks to this global event, we can help each other, really help each other, to realize the inherent distortions and falsehoods that have been instilled in us.

"do not represent capitolism, but rather collectivism."
Capitalism is the appropriate path, and "collectivism" as you put it, is the dead end?

For example- this comment that I highlighted above- this event brings out a very popular fear- one that the ruling oligarchs have been working diligently, for years, to instill in us; the fear that if we dare to "take our eye off the ball" of self interest, the discipline of self, the holy altar of capitalism, if we stop and consider, for a moment, our relationship to each other- to think of each other in a "collective" sense, our entire way of life will come crashing to the ground in a mad filthy orgy of hippies and immigrants, tearing apart the goodness of our once proud nation with their insatiable stupidity and their selfish blind indulgence.

I used to believe that lie. I truly believed that to my core. But I was so much older then :)

And yes, revolution. REAL change, not the prepackaged Obamicized kind of disingenuous change, but real change. It's very messy. People sometimes get hurt. Sometimes it is violent, like a volcano can be. It's loud. There can be a lot of really annoying celebrities and crazy people attracted to the spectacle. It does not obey rules, or curfews. Bathrooms are not kept clean. Room service is not an option. There is no consistent messaging. There is no proper signage, no branding. The spokespeople are too young, or too dark skinned, a lot of them need to take a bath. Some are off their medication, and I would be willing to bet a few of them are even (gasp) high on drugs. There are war veterans, unemployed people of all stripes, some on crutches, some in wheelchairs (if they can afford them that is), teachers (a lot of unemployed teachers these days), single moms with children, whole families with children.

It starts to boil down to what you really believe about yourself. What do you believe about all of us. Leave us in a park, or an empty parking lot, with no police, no military, no leaders. Will you wake up and find your belongings stolen? Will you get a bullhorn and take command of the situation? How will you eat, who would make room for you to lay down, or to help you if you could not pay for the best seat in the restaurant? What possible reason would anyone have to be considerate of each other if there were no police to protect us, no politicians to look after our welfare?

There is no party affiliation, no message, no branding, no corporate sponsorship, nothing to oppose or support. It is only the experience of being connected, in a way that surpasses all human understanding. And that simple truth, that experience, seems to be starting to function like a crucible (in the alchemical sense) to burn away every every lie, every attempt to co-opt or distort the truth of who we really are.

It just might be, that this is not the handiwork of a shadow organization of limousine liberals and their legions of thieves and grifters, but rather exactly what human evolution looks like.

This could be Tunisia, or Egypt, or then again, it could be more like Yemen. Maybe this is that miraculous moment before the wall comes down, or is it the calm before they mow us down with machine guns and the tanks roll over us. Too soon to tell, too soon.

But I for one am grateful for the dialogue. And I am encouraged that the OWS have (so far) refused to wear the correct outfit to the dance.

"The revolution will not be televised"
google it

Very cogent Buck, I'm impressed with your insight. With some of the posts on this thread, I'm wondering why we all just don't just give up, roll over, and take our beating like good little cogs in the invincible machinery of the 1%! I so understand the skeptical and wary stance taken by many posters here, and am myself sufficiently jaded to roll my eyes and smirk at what I see as adenoidal attitudes to complex and long orchestrated machinations by the power elites. However, there are forces at work here that are beyond the ken of those either lost in fear, blinder-ed by disappointed idealism, or worn down by the trickery of the terminally greedy. There is such a thing as right timing and even cosmic timing( he timorously enters the domain of spiritual awareness) to certain events and now is the moment. Part of me fights against these realizations even now, though in my heart of hearts I KNOW. Does this mean that there isn't real dirty, sometimes confusing work to be done? Au contraire mon frere, the worm is turning and will soon be trying to escape from the apple it has tried so hard (boo-hoo!) to spoil.

Thanks again for your post.

Regards, Craig

[blufire]

It has always been a “globalist trap” . . . . just think back to how and where and why this movement started.

Sun Tzu's The Art of War . . . . read it . . . . even if you just read the part about “knowing your enemy” and what outcome you want to promote with that knowledge.

Who do you think is using this ancient war strategy??? I’ll give you a hint . . . . it ain’t the 99%

[GCS1103]

GCS1103 I agree with all you said, yet I find it interesting that you have a pix of you with Bob Dean who you describe as incredible. Not don't misunderstand, this is not a critique of Bob, but you do understand that he and his wife Marcia Schafer make money off of the talks, seminars, etc. and that Bob was a 28-yr Army man (I believe sergeant major) where I'm sure he killed or was responsible for killing many. In Bob's early interviews he use to refer to himself as a mean-green fighting machine (lots of ego male testosterone); however since, he has greatly mellowed his talks (I think Marcia is the brains behind that mellowing - but whatever) and because of his advancing age he is now seen as this sweet guy - and maybe he is. Again, this is not about Bob. What I'm trying to point out is that things are often not the way they seem - or people can change consciousness. I'm not standing up for the celebrities of whom you talk, except to say, at least they feel guilty. We are all a part of this crazy world and to some extent we all buy into the money thing. I'd like to think if I were rich, I'd do better, but I don't know that. What I've seen is that no matter how much money a person has, they rarely think it's enough.

As I said, I agree with everything thing you said, I guess where I disagree is in the harsh judgment. Some could say you are just as wrong to make money off these celebs. My only point is that at some level we are all contributing to this crazy money structured society we live in.

I understand what you're saying and I take no offense at your views, at all. I'm just looking at this from a different prospective. I'm one of the 1% technically, if we measure the 1% in dollars and cents and it has always been my belief that earning a living is not something to be ashamed of. I congratulate anyone who works hard and earns a good wage. Whenever I respond to a post about someone charging for their time, workshops (Lord Sid), expertise, etc., I have always taken the same position. We are entitled to be compensated for our work. Being wealthy or being poor has nothing to do with the intrinisic value of the person. I have no issue with celebrities earning money either. You're right, I earn a good living from them. I don't apologize for getting paid and they have no qualms about paying me- my clients do very well with what I am able to accomplish for them. It's not a hobby for me. The fact that they may be famous, is of no relevance.

Here is what I have a problem with (This is just my personal feelings from dealing with some of them): When Zuccotti Park is vacant again, and everyone has gone home, most of my clients will not give a moment's thought as to what started this movement, why people were sleeping in the park, etc. I probably should have been more tactful with the way I wrote my post, but I am VERY jaded after spending many years with people like this. I am trying to say that merely because a famous face is in the crowd, should not be interpreted to mean this person cares about the cause. There truly is a vast disconnect between them and most people.

As to Bob Dean (who is incredible)- yes, he charges for his talks, and I believe he has every right to. I hope you don't think I have a picture with him because I believed he was giving free conferences.;) I will leave his wife, Marcia, out of my response. That's a story for another day.:rolleyes:

[Muzz]

Hi friends! Just would like to say that I am concerned about the fact that since the beginning of OWS i still haven't any idea who the "ones" are that started this movement. no names have been identified.

This article here (http://lalternativaitalia.blogspot.com/2011/10/lucis-trust-behind-occupy-wall-street.html) is pointing towards the Lucis Trust (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_lucytrust05.htm#Alice%20Bailey,%20World%20Goodwill%20and%20the%20False%20Light%20of%20t he%20World)


The Lucis Trust Publishing Company and their many fronts and organizations worship an "Externalized Hierarchy" of "Ascended Masters," who carry out the work of a Luciferian "master plan" for the establishment of a permanent "Age of Aquarius" ruled by one "Sanat Kumara", the "Lord of the World."

This is no ordinary third rate occult organization. Lucis Trust is a powerful institution that enjoys "Consultative Status" with the United Nations, which permits it to have a close working relationship with the U.N., including a seat on the weekly sessions, but most importantly influence with powerful business and national leaders throughout the world.

[Black Panther]

It has always been a “globalist trap” . . . . just think back to how and where and why this movement started.

Sun Tzu's The Art of War . . . . read it . . . . even if you just read the part about “knowing your enemy” and what outcome you want to promote with that knowledge.

Who do you think is using this ancient war strategy??? I’ll give you a hint . . . . it ain’t the 99%
Then it must be the 1%, right ? :jester:



Black Panther wrote:
Actually he was right! All we need is love. The problem is those sociopaths
on top of the pyramid don't know what love is. And most of the people protesting
don't know what's really happening in the world.


Well, as you wrote yourself "those sociopaths dont know wot love is". Thats

not a small problem in the situation today. You can shield yourself with love

or you can shower love on them, It just aint gonna help. You have to use

something they understand and we must stop them. There was a guy some

months ago on an island outside Oslo in Norway who shot 65 humans, more

than half of them children. He didnt stop until 5 policemen from a special unit

arrived. In the same moment he saw them he put down his guns. There were

some grown ups who tried to talk to the guy and the next moment they were

dead. The situation the worlds population is in is just as severe. We might get

to a situation when we truly can say that "All we need is love". But I think it can

be a very expensive mistake for humanity if we imagine we are on that point now.

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt81/sakasvattaja/AngryBlackPanther.jpg

I agree with you love isn't THE answer for all our problems. :agree:

I was planning to include a picture of a vulture, because you were "picking" on someone who is no more ;) But maybe you wouldn't appreciate my joke. Now you included a very nice picture of me (as you can see, don't make me mad :)). I can't help it to give you a reply:

http://ibc.lynxeds.com/files/imagecache/photo_940/pictures/Lappetfaced_Vulture_Attacking_Golden_Jackal_Tanzania_Philip_Perry.jpg