UK military steps up plans for Iran attack amid fresh nuclear fears

[astrid]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/02/uk-military-iran-attack-nuclear

"Britain's armed forces are stepping up their contingency planning for potential military action against Iran amid mounting concern about Tehran's nuclear enrichment programme, the Guardian has learned.

The Ministry of Defence believes the US may decide to fast-forward plans for targeted missile strikes at some key Iranian facilities. British officials say that if Washington presses ahead it will seek, and receive, UK military help for any mission, despite some deep reservations within the coalition government.

In anticipation of a potential attack, British military planners are examining where best to deploy Royal Navy ships and submarines equipped with Tomahawk cruise missiles over the coming months as part of what would be an air and sea campaign.

They also believe the US would ask permission to launch attacks from Diego Garcia, the British Indian ocean territory, which the Americans have used previously for conflicts in the Middle East.

The Guardian has spoken to a number of Whitehall and defence officials over recent weeks who said Iran was once again becoming the focus of diplomatic concern after the revolution in Libya.

They made clear that Barack Obama, has no wish to embark on a new and provocative military venture before next November's presidential election.

But they warned the calculations could change because of mounting anxiety over intelligence gathered by western agencies, and the more belligerent posture that Iran appears to have been taking.

Hawks in the US are likely to seize on next week's report from the International Atomic Energy Agency, which is expected to provide fresh evidence of a possible nuclear weapons programme in Iran.

The Guardian has been told that the IAEA's bulletin could be "a game changer" which will provide unprecedented details of the research and experiments being undertaken by the regime.

One senior Whitehall official said Iran had proved "surprisingly resilient" in the face of sanctions, and sophisticated attempts by the west to cripple its nuclear enrichment programme had been less successful than first thought.

He said Iran appeared to be "newly aggressive, and we are not quite sure why", citing three recent assassination plots on foreign soil that the intelligence agencies say were coordinated by elements in Tehran.

In addition to that, officials now believe Iran has restored all the capability it lost in a sophisticated cyber-attack last year.The Stuxnet computer worm, thought to have been engineered by the Americans and Israelis, sabotaged many of the centrifuges the Iranians were using to enrich uranium.

Up to half of Iran's centrifuges were disabled by Stuxnet or were thought too unreliable to work, but diplomats believe this capability has now been recovered, and the IAEA believes it may even be increasing.

Ministers have also been told that the Iranians have been moving some more efficient centrifuges into the heavily-fortified military base dug beneath a mountain near the city of Qom.

The concern is that the centrifuges, which can be used to enrich uranium for use in weapons, are now so well protected within the site that missile strikes may not be able to reach them. The senior Whitehall source said the Iranians appeared to be shielding "material and capability" inside the base.

Another Whitehall official, with knowledge of Britain's military planning, said that within the next 12 months Iran may have hidden all the material it needs to continue a covert weapons programme inside fortified bunkers. He said this had necessitated the UK's planning being taken to a new level.

"Beyond [12 months], we couldn't be sure our missiles could reach them," the source said. "So the window is closing, and the UK needs to do some sensible forward planning. The US could do this on their own but they won't.

"So we need to anticipate being asked to contribute. We had thought this would wait until after the US election next year, but now we are not so sure.

"President Obama has a big decision to make in the coming months because he won't want to do anything just before an election."

Another source added there was "no acceleration towards military action by the US, but that could change". Next spring could be a key decision-making period, the source said. The MoD has a specific team considering the military options against Iran.

The Guardian has been told that planners expect any campaign to be predominantly waged from the air, with some naval involvement, using missiles such as the Tomahawks, which have a range of 800 miles (1,287 km). There are no plans for a ground invasion, but "a small number of special forces" may be needed on the ground, too.

The RAF could also provide air-to-air refuelling and some surveillance capability, should they be required. British officials say any assistance would be cosmetic: the US could act on its own but would prefer not to.

An MoD spokesman said: "The British government believes that a dual track strategy of pressure and engagement is the best approach to address the threat from Iran's nuclear programme and avoid regional conflict. We want a negotiated solution – but all options should be kept on the table."

The MoD says there are no hard and fast blueprints for conflict but insiders concede that preparations there and at the Foreign Office have been under way for some time.

One official said: "I think that it is fair to say that the MoD is constantly making plans for all manner of international situations. Some areas are of more concern than others. "It is not beyond the realms of possibility that people at the MoD are thinking about what we might do should something happen on Iran. It is quite likely that there will be people in the building who have thought about what we would do if commanders came to us and asked us if we could support the US. The context for that is straightforward contingency planning."

Washington has been warned by Israel against leaving any military action until it is too late.

Western intelligence agencies say Israel will demand that the US act if it believes its own military cannot launch successful attacks to stall Iran's nuclear programme. A source said the "Israelis want to believe that they can take this stuff out", and will continue to agitate for military action if Iran continues to play hide and seek.

It is estimated that Iran, which has consistently said it is interested only in developing a civilian nuclear energy programme, already has enough enriched uranium for between two and four nuclear weapons.

Experts believe it could be another two years before Tehran has a ballistic missile delivery system.

British officials admit to being perplexed by what they regard as Iran's new aggressiveness, saying that they have been shown convincing evidence that Iran was behind the murder of a Saudi diplomat in Karachi in May, as well as the audacious plot to assassinate the Saudi ambassador in Washington, which was uncovered last month.

"There is a clear dotted line from Tehran to the plot in Washington," said one.

Earlier this year, the IAEA reported that it had evidence Tehran had conducted work on a highly sophisticated nuclear triggering technology that could only be used for setting off a nuclear device.

It also said it was "increasingly concerned about the possible existence in Iran of past or current undisclosed nuclear-related activities involving military-related organisations, including activities related to the development of a nuclear payload for a missile."

Last year, the UN security council imposed a fourth round of sanctions on Iran to try to deter Tehran from pursuing any nuclear ambitions.

At the weekend, the New York Times reported that the US was looking to build up its military presence in the region, with one eye on Iran.

According to the paper, the US is considering sending more naval warships to the area, and is seeking to expand military ties with the six countries in the Gulf Co-operation Council: Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates and Oman. "

Spin, spin and more SPIN!!

Side note, could be totally irrelevant, could be an indicator...
A close personal friend's daughter has her sights set on joining the army here.
She is 20, and wasn't meant to enter until the middle of the year.
But today she was telling me she got a call from them,
and things are moving faster.
( yes i have tried to educate her, but to no avail as yet.)

[astrid]

Feeling very antsy tonight too,
maybe just the solar action, its very active at the moment

[math330]

British officials admit to being perplexed by what they regard as Iran's new aggressiveness, saying that they have been shown convincing evidence that Iran was behind the murder of a Saudi diplomat in Karachi in May, as well as the audacious plot to assassinate the Saudi ambassador in Washington, which was uncovered last month.

It is estimated that Iran, which has consistently said it is interested only in developing a civilian nuclear energy programme, already has enough enriched uranium for between two and four nuclear weapons.

So, the same BS stories we heard about Iraq and Libya then. How long will it be before we're told that Ahmadinejad is using chemical weapons against his own people?
What a load of cobblers, and the sad thing is they'll take us into another illegal war regardless how obvious the lies are.
Sick of it. I'm totally sick of it.

[learninglight]

Iran was always on the cards... part of 'their' agenda

And i agree i'm sick to my back teeth of the BS they put out to cover themselves to cause hurt and pain to others
would go outside right now and shout ' NO MORE, NO MORE' but who would listen till it's to late!..

much love

[math330]

Yep, LearningLight - even if we say 'NO' again, they'll do it anyway a la Iraq.

The lies and propaganda are almost comical, but comics are meant to be funny.

[astrid]

Agreed its the same story, they just switch the names.
They are still trying to sell a war.
Only so many are awake to it all now, they are going to be hard pressed to find buyers......

Stay in love,
Stay in Peace.
We are one.

Blessings,
Astrid.

[Unified Serenity]

I think if we have massive protests focused on staying out of war we could stop this from happening. Of course if Iran sets off a nuke in the ocean and causes a tsunami that wipes out half of california, I don't think we will be protesting a war to kill every last Iranian, and well isn't that sort of already planned on the $10.00 bill?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_WLozzAqZKBg/TTOz6GweHCI/AAAAAAAAAZo/g_2AFfQ1sEE/s1600/ten%2Bdollar%2Bbill%2Btsunami.jpg

[math330]

Ok, found this story (http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-air-force-conducts-drills-for-long-range-attacks-1.393325) as well. Not looking good for Iran.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-air-force-conducts-drills-for-long-range-attacks-1.393325

"While the media and political sphere is abuzz with news on a potential attack on Iran's nuclear development facilities, the Israel Air Force continues conducting comprehensive drills on long-range attacks.
The last drill of this sort took place last week at the NATO base in Italy, in which six different types of air force squadrons participated. The drill was widely covered on websites around the world that specialize in aviation."

[astrid]

And this..
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/iran-says-united-and-ready-for-war-with-israel-1.393447

"Iran says united and 'ready for war' with Israel"

http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/poll-shows-strong-israeli-1215436.html

"Poll shows strong Israeli support for Iran attack
JERUSALEM — The Israeli government would have significant support at home for an Israeli military strike against Iran's nuclear program, according to a poll published Thursday."

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Politics/2011/Oct-19/151683-hezbollah-israel-war-imminent-both-sides-well-prepared.ashx#axzz1cdZiXaXm

"Hezbollah, Israel war imminent, both sides well prepared"

Why am i thinking that this occupy movement is just a big distraction,
meanwhile war games are being planned out.

[Calz]

I think if we have massive protests focused on staying out of war we could stop this from happening. Of course if Iran sets off a nuke in the ocean and causes a tsunami that wipes out half of california, I don't think we will be protesting a war to kill every last Iranian, and well isn't that sort of already planned on the $10.00 bill?




Remember the millions protesting to stop the Iraq war???

[Coaxial]

And this..
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/iran-says-united-and-ready-for-war-with-israel-1.393447

"Iran says united and 'ready for war' with Israel"

http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/poll-shows-strong-israeli-1215436.html

"Poll shows strong Israeli support for Iran attack
JERUSALEM — The Israeli government would have significant support at home for an Israeli military strike against Iran's nuclear program, according to a poll published Thursday."

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Politics/2011/Oct-19/151683-hezbollah-israel-war-imminent-both-sides-well-prepared.ashx#axzz1cdZiXaXm

"Hezbollah, Israel war imminent, both sides well prepared"

Why am i thinking that this occupy movement is just a big distraction,
meanwhile war games are being planned out.

My thoughts exactly!

[math330]

God no.
it's just sinking in how potentially catastrophic this would be, let's try to keep this thread near the top? Don't let it slide

Terrifying. What would China's response to this be??

[astrid]

Yes, terrifying is an understatement.

Stupid ****ing humans, they don't deserve to be the custodians of our jewel of a planet.

I wish there was a way to boot all the greedy war mongering narrow minded, murderers onto their own planet,
somewhere in the farest corner of the galaxy,
so we can all get together and clean this mess up.

Not the answer, i know.. but one can dream...

ANd, can't slip back into dualistic thinking, its not going to get us anywhere.

But now i know why i have been so on edge this week.
The vibration of war is very distinctive.

[math330]

Another interesting link - revealing. It's a long read, but worthwhile in my humble opinion.
Could this latest scenario be because banking sanctions aren't working? We know the US's past history with 'tyrants' trying to move away from the dollar, is this any different?

"The news report correctly pointed out that after “three decades of blanket US sanctions against Iran, it has become received wisdom that the United States has few financial tools left to bend Iran’s will.”"
"In sum, the bizarre story of the used-car salesman, Mexican drug cartel, and the Saudi Ambassador is inextricably linked to the US-Israeli desire to sanction Bank Markazi. It is expected that this “sanction of mass destruction,” or “nuclear option,” will do the trick and will help to paralyze the Iranian economy. Down the line, it is hoped, the shattered economy will create the right conditions for the overthrow of the “Iranian regime” and its replacement by a US-Israeli friendly government."

http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/11/02/the-used-car-salesman-a-mexican-drug-cartel-and-the-saudi-ambassador/

[astrid]

Good work, Math, thanks for your contributions.
I will read it in the morning, i want to sleep on this now.

I'm going to work on this from higher up over night,
see what transpires, i will report in the morning.

Feel free anyone to post any updates that are relevant.

Stay in peace,
Stay in love,

Astrid.

[Unified Serenity]

What's really sick is how few people realize just how beautiful Iran is, how lovely her people are, and how we used to be friends. What's really sick is how this is all about money, oil, and resources. What's really sick is a very small clique stands to make a great deal of money from a war and getting a hold of those resources. I won't benefit from the resources. My family won't gain, the average Iranian doesn't even gain from their resources. It's all a chess game, and most of us are just pawns. We elect people, they pick our battles, and they send our sons and daughters to go fight them, but hey, it's a representative government and we can vote them out anytime right?

I am so glad my son's and daughters are not going into the military. God forbid they re institute the draft! We might just have to leave the country.

[Maia Gabrial]

They're still going ahead with that lie about the Saudi ambassador? Unbelievably stupid!
I believe NOTHING the govt of the US says regarding this whole situation. Or anything else for that matter. This Obama administration will see themselves answering for every crime it committed against Earth's humanity. This is what will open up everyone's eyes about all the lies that's ever been used to get us into wars....
Prez Obama, return that Nobel PEACE prize and million bucks while you're at it, Hypocrite! Murderer...

[grapevine]

I think if we have massive protests focused on staying out of war we could stop this from happening. Of course if Iran sets off a nuke in the ocean and causes a tsunami that wipes out half of california, I don't think we will be protesting a war to kill every last Iranian, and well isn't that sort of already planned on the $10.00 bill?




Remember the millions protesting to stop the Iraq war???

I do indeed - I was one of them - and it made not a blind bit of difference! This time it's a little different with the nuclear threat - there's always the nagging question: Is this it??

[Cidersomerset]

That defiinately sounds like trouble , political lies and manouvring. As has been said it makes no sence for Iran to provoke the west.....So it is all BS 'dossiers' again so the TPTB can
continue their grand scheme of controlling as much of other nations assets as they can........Its been a replay of the 19th century grab for Africa , only this time its oil region countries...

Looking back now since the Berlin wall came down and the end of the cold war, the last 20 years has all been planned...We know it on here, but it must be getting obvious to every
journalist/reporter who has a brain cell !! Anyway the $ 10 bill could represent the hanging gardens of Babylon and the fall of Iraq & Iran....The people of those ancient countries have had
to put up with a lot of turmoil over the last 50 yrs yet they are a stoic race and have a rye sence of humour in the UK at the momment two of the top comedians are Iranian...

Omid Djalili.....croses all cultures and he has just made a film about a muslim finding out he is Jewish.....Humour breaks all barriers , but every news clip of the middle east is stereotyped
with the prayer call or a group of youths shooting in the air....This interview is very good its not political just human, and if more of this type of conversation was played on the news ...there would be very few wars if any !!

AnGn6j1RO64

flNd3mAwgWQ

SvmKanOEAXE

If only every news report could focus on positive agendas and not hype or be mouthpieces for the elitists....Steve..

[Calz]

Wow ... trying to avoid this topic and guess what???

Pulling up 3 straight music videos guess what the pop-up advertisement is???

You got it ... something about supporting Isreal in the upcoming conflict.

What??????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(ads by Google ... please hold back your surprise)

[alxz]

We cant stop this from happening. We can only pressure the governments and protest against it, showing our dissgust against their crimes.
Im sick and tired of it! why cant we just have peace? everyday, trying to raise the vibrational level and we get treated like this by our government.

hello!? help...

bless, one love!!!

[alxz]

Revolution Of The Mind - Die For My People

DcllrAh69uM

[astrid]

Wow ... trying to avoid this topic and guess what???

Pulling up 3 straight music videos guess what the pop-up advertisement is???

You got it ... something about supporting Isreal in the upcoming conflict.

What??????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(ads by Google ... please hold back your surprise)


Wow Cal
I was so hoping to be wrong about this .
We have seen them knocking on this
door many many time before but this time
feels very different .
Much more ( I hate to say) solidity to it

I did a lot of work on this over night .
There is a massive shadow hanging over the middle east,
it's pure rage and anger.
I'm working with a group on clearing this,

Will post more later as i get into it deeper .

Stay in love,

A

[Arrowwind]

I had thought that this would have happened in the Bush administration. That Iran will go down in the Obama adminstration is a clear sign that is is just like all the rest, a puppet for the powers that be..
and if they blow up nuclear facilities won't that make for another Fukashima type of incident?

God, Im fed up with holding my breath.

Many innocents in Iran will die... but what to they care? not a bit.

[David Trd1]

Wow ... trying to avoid this topic and guess what???

Pulling up 3 straight music videos guess what the pop-up advertisement is???

You got it ... something about supporting Isreal in the upcoming conflict.

What??????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(ads by Google ... please hold back your surprise)

It sounds like an old record eh!..
building the case for war by repeating the inevitability of it.Manipulating our conciousness is always the first move then we make it easier for TPTW to manifest that reality.
slowly seeping it into each our realities so it just becomes accepted as fact eventually with enough people.
Internal rejection is where it starts

Love and peace:)

[astrid]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/nov/03/america-itch-brawl-new-target-iran

A response to the first article i posted.

Simon Jenkins
guardian.co.uk, Thursday 3 November 2011 21.30 GMT

"America's itch to brawl has a new target – but bombs can't conquer Iran

A post-imperial virus has infected foreign policy. We've been here before, we know the human cost, and now we must stop
America's itch to brawl has a new target – but bombs can't conquer Iran

A post-imperial virus has infected foreign policy. We've been here before, we know the human cost, and now we must stop

This time there will be no excuses. Plans for British support for an American assault on Iran, revealed in today's Guardian, are appalling. They would risk what even the "wars of 9/11" did not bring: a Christian-Muslim armageddon engulfing the region. This time no one should say they were not warned, that minds were elsewhere, that we were told it would be swift and surgical. Nobody should say that.

To western strategists, Iran today is exactly where Iraq was in 2002. The country posed no threat to the west. Yet "weapons of mass destruction" were said to be primed and had to be urgently eliminated. The offending regime could be subjugated by air power or, if not, by regime change. The cause was noble, and the outcome sure.

There any comparison ends. Iran is not a one-man, two-bit dictatorship, but a nation of 70 million people, an ancient and proud civilisation with a developed civil society and a modicum of pluralist democracy. Certainly its insecure leader, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, wants a weapons-ready nuclear enrichment programme, as next week's United Nations report by the International Atomic Energy Authority is expected to repeat. But he leads a country which, like Pakistan, Britain or Israel, craves status, prestige and the vague security that these unusable weapons seem to convey.

Nuclear dissemination is deplorable, but massively overhyped. Warheads cost a fortune to develop and keep in service. Modern anti-western aggression finds it cheaper and more effective to plan terrorist outrages. Nuclear bombs have not made Israel more secure. They have been useless to Pakistan in confronting India, and to North Korea against the south. They did not save apartheid in South Africa, or the Soviet Union from itself.

The planned attack on Iran is familiar in form. It is declared exclusively aerial, with missiles and unmanned drones deployed against nuclear and military targets. The airmen will promise, as they did in Belgrade, Baghdad and Benghazi, that bombing can do the job unaided. The enemy then digs in and fights back, the tempo of attack has to mount, and ground forces are sucked in.

We read that there are, as yet, no plans for a ground attack on Iran, though "a small number of special forces" may be required, as was required eventually in Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan. The mission will creep from wrecking Iran's nuclear capability to ensuring it cannot be rebuilt, and then to securing regime change and "freedom". We have been there so often before. The logic of war tends towards totality, without which no victory can be declared.

Total war on Iran would be a catastrophe. Every politician involved in this business should be locked in a room and forced to read the cuttings on Afghanistan and Iraq over the past decade. Ahmadinejad may delight audiences with his bloodthirsty language about the west. But the rest of the world would ask by what right are two nuclear powers using violence to stop someone else joining their weirdly exclusive club. We would have no UN support for such a venture. No one seriously supposes that Iran, under whatever ruler, would seek to wipe out Israel – and anyway that is Israel's business.

Stopping Iran from developing a nuclear capability is and always was a lost cause. It appears to be three years from deliverable warheads and is besieged by foreign agents launching cyber-attacks, selling fake components and assassinating scientists. But Iran would be no easy target, like Libya or Iraq. The more isolated and threatened Iran is by the west, the more nuclear assertiveness attracts its leadership, and the more allies would rally to its cause.

Every expert report on Iran warns that bombing is the one thing likely to bond the unpopular Ahmadinejad to his people. The idea that they would rise up against him after the Pentagon's reported "shock and awe" three-day blitz of 1,200 targets is demented. Ahmadinejad's recent antics in New York were designed to provoke just such belligerence, to bolster his position and that of the hardliners. For rightwingers to play the enemy's game in this way used to be called treason. American presidential candidates now call it patriotism.

The wars of choice that followed 9/11 have acquired a rhythm of their own. They have yielded 10 years of rolling thunder across the Muslim world, variously proclaiming retaliation, humanity, regime change and democracy. There have been pluses – the toppling of Saddam Hussein, Gaddafi and (temporarily) the Taliban. But the minuses have been tens of thousands killed, millions displaced, societies upheaved, billions of dollars of destruction, and a region destabilised. The wars have been a gigantic, historic tragedy. They have not advanced western security one jot.

If ever there were a country that was once ripe for soft-power diplomacy, it was modern Iran. Yet the west misread Ahmadinejad and then misread such dissenters as Mohammad Khatami and parliament's speaker, Mehdi Karroubi. It defied pleas from moderates not to impose sanctions, rejecting the argument that Iran needed a strengthened professional, commercial and academic class as counterweight to the military and the mullahs. As with the sanctions imposed on Saddam's Iraq, Gaddafi's Libya and Mugabe's Zimbabwe, they have driven Iran's rulers into a siege economy. Sanctions weaken the forces of pluralism and opposition. They are plainly counterproductive.

Revolutionary Iran should have been flooded with aid, trade and cultural attention. That is what happened in Pakistan and Indonesia. Neither is a model state, but they have a developed middle class and are not regarded as regional menaces. The US is not declaring war on Pakistan, though it and its nuclear weapons pose a far greater threat to America's interests in the region than Iran.

Western bombs cannot conquer Tehran. America and Britain might be able to invade in sufficient strength to knock out nuclear bunkers, but they could not stop rebuilding, especially after a war that would radicalise the nation and make it far more antagonistic. The outcome might make Israel feel temporarily a little safer, but it would render both Israel and the west more vulnerable to terrorist and other retaliation.

A virus seems to be running through the upper echelons of Washington and London, that of a moral duty to wage war against perceived evil wherever it offers a bombing target. Anyone watching last month's Republican primary debate in Las Vegas will have been shocked at the belligerence shown by the six candidates towards the outside world. It was a display of what the historian Robert D Kaplan called "the warrior politics … of an imperial reality that dominates our foreign policy", a fidgety search for reasons to go brawling round the globe, at any cost in resulting anarchy. The spectacle was frightening and depressing.

British friends of America can see all the signs of another country in the throes of "losing an empire and not finding a role", of a paranoid nervous breakdown. Britain has been there before. It should never go back. It has been warned."

[astrid]

more from the Guardian, its looking like the "messenger boy" of this one,
SO far nothing much on LAMESTREAM, beside sport and the latest BOND movie...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2011/nov/02/iran-khamenei-us-terror-video?fb=native

"Khamenei says Iran has evidence of US terror attacks - video

As concerns mount about Tehran's nuclear ambitions, Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, says he has evidence proving the US is behind 'terrorist acts' in his country and elsewhere in the Middle East. A report next week is expected to provide fresh evidence of an Iranian nuclear weapons programme"

see video at the above link.

You know, i used to see this stuff as a kid.. all the "death to America" chants,
that were televised from the middle east, now im awake to things, i can see their point.

And i'm very much against death to anything, but i can see why they are so PISSED.

[astrid]

more. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/03/iran-warns-us-clash-nuclear

Iran warns US to avoid clash over nuclear programme

Iranian foreign minister says America has 'lost its wisdom and prudence' as tensions mount over Tehran's enrichment efforts

Iran has warned the US not to set the two countries on a collision course over Tehran's nuclear enrichment programme, as diplomatic tensions reflected growing concern that the Middle East might be on the verge of new conflict.

The Iranian foreign minister, Ali Akbar Salehi, spoke amid reports that the Israeli prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, has been trying to rally support within his country for an attack.

The Guardian revealed that the UK was advancing contingency plans for joining American forces in a possible air and sea campaign against military bases in Iran.

The revelations led to Nato insisting on Thursday that it would play no part in any military action, and provoked the rebuke from Salehi, who insisted that any attack by either Israel or the US would provoke immediate retaliation. He also accused Washington of recklessness.

"The US has unfortunately lost its wisdom and prudence in dealing with international issues," he told reporters during a visit to Libya. "Of course we are prepared for the worst, but we hope that they think twice before they put themselves on a collision course with Iran."

In a separate interview with a Turkish newspaper, Salehi claimed Tehran was ready for war with Israel. "We have been hearing threats from Israel for eight years. Our nation is a united nation … such threats are not new to us," he said. "We are very sure of ourselves. We can defend our country."

The pressure on Iran has been building since allegations surfaced of a plot to assassinate the Saudi ambassador to Washington. The White House insists Tehran was behind the plot, but the Iranian regime has denied that.

The episode added to US concerns about Iran's nuclear enrichment programme and the increasing belligerence of its regime. Intelligence suggests that some of the Iranian centrifuges that can produce weapons-grade uranium are being hidden inside a fortified military base in Qom, about 100 miles south-west of Tehran.

The International Atomic Energy Authority will next week deliver its latest bulletin on Iran's nuclear programme and is expected to provide fresh evidence of covert plans to engineer warheads.

The Israeli defence minister, Ehud Barak, said to be one of those pushing for an early attack on Iran, was in London on Thursday for talks with David Cameron's national security adviser, Sir Peter Ricketts, the foreign secretary, William Hague, and the new defence secretary, Philip Hammond.

Hague said the meeting had given them a chance to discuss "shared concerns such as … the threat posed by Iran's nuclear programme". Downing Street said "all options are on the table" for dealing with Iran unless it truly abandons any plans to arm itself with nuclear weapons.

Though Britain says its policy on the issue has not changed, the Guardian disclosed that British military planners were now having to turn contingency plans into practical steps, such as considering when to deploy Royal Navy submarines equipped with Tomahawk cruise missiles to the region, in case Barack Obama bows to pressure to launch missile strikes against Iranian bases.

Although Iran has insisted it is only developing nuclear energy, Whitehall officials believe the regime will have hidden all it needs to build weapons inside fortified compounds within 12 months – adding a sense of urgency to diplomatic efforts.

The Nato secretary general, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, called for political and diplomatic efforts to resolve the growing crisis. He insisted that Nato would not be drawn into any military action.

"Let me stress that Nato has no intention whatsoever to intervene in Iran, and Nato is not engaged as an alliance in the Iran question," he said.

Villy Søvndal, the new Danish foreign minister,said he could not see any circumstances in which his country would join a military effort against Iran, as it had done in Libya and Afghanistan. "The difference between Libya and Iran is that I could never imagine a UN resolution behind a military attack on Iran. There would be no regional backup. That would be one of the most impossible military missions.

"Of course, you can bomb some buildings and equipment and maybe you could delay for a period of one or two years. But I can no see any situation in which Denmark would participate. It would produce so much instability … you could also end in a situation where you strengthen the present Iranian regime."

In Israel, the row over whether to launch strikes against Iran continued, with Netanyahu reportedly ordering an investigation into alleged leaks of plans to attack nuclear facilities.

According to the Kuwaiti newspaper al-Jarida, the main suspects are the former heads of the Mossad and the Shin Bet, respectively Israel's foreign and domestic intelligence agencies. Netanyahu is said to believe that the two chiefs, Meir Dagan and Yuval Diskin, wanted to disrupt plans being drawn up by him and Barak to hit Iranian nuclear sites.

Both Dagan and Diskin oppose military action against Iran unless all other options – primarily international diplomatic pressure and perhaps sabotage – have been exhausted.

In January the recently retired Dagan, a hawk when he was running the Mossad, called an attack on Iran "the stupidest idea" he had ever heard. The Kuwaiti newspaper has a track record of running stories based on apparently high-level leaks from Israeli officials.

Even well-informed Israeli observers admit to being confused about what is going on behind the scenes.

"It seems that only Netanyahu and Barak know, and maybe even they haven't decided," said Amos Harel and Avi Issacharoff, both respected writers for the newspaper Haaretz.

"While many people say Netanyahu and Barak are conducting sophisticated psychological warfare and don't intend to launch a military operation, top officials … are still afraid."

The debate in Israel intensified further on Wednesday when Israel test-fired a missile capable of carrying a nuclear warhead to Iran."

[math330]

^
"The difference between Libya and Iran is that I could never imagine a UN resolution behind a military attack on Iran. There would be no regional backup. That would be one of the most impossible military missions."

Didn't stop them last time did it? And since the UN didn't even follow up the last illegal wars I don't think they care about UN Resolutions anymore.
USA, UK, Israel - bullies of the world.

this is maybe slightly off topic, but in the same breath also maybe very much on topic - I'm not a gamer but someone pointed out that a war with Iran features on a new game called Battlefield 3.
More conditioning for the public?

link
http://america-hijacked.com/2011/10/31/battlefield-3-video-game-conditioning-americas-youth-for-another-war-for-israel-against-iran/

[math330]

One more from the Guardian - Netanyahu is now claiming Mossad leaked the plans and that the purpose of the leaks was possibly 'to prevent an attack'

This struck me as relatively hopeful;
"In January the recently retired Dagan (ex head of Mossad) , a hawk when he was running the Mossad, called an attack on Iran "the stupidest idea I've ever heard".

And this didn't;
"Netanyahu portrayed the equation at the beginning of his term as: Ahmadinejad is Hitler; if he is not stopped in time, there will be a Holocaust. There are some who describe Netanyahu's fervour on this subject as an obsession: all his life he's dreamed of being Churchill. Iran gives him the chance."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/03/israeli-pm-investigation-iran-leak?intcmp=239

Who is Netanyahu to compare Ahmadinejad to Hitler?! WTF!? Hasn't Israel decimated Palestine? Hasn't Israel been responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians??
The world's gone crazy once more.

[astrid]

Thanks Matt, the plot thickens,
crazy is the understatement of the millennium.
They all know that a nuke strike is game over,
so its just all mind games.

[astrid]

Very interesting times, seems like we are hitting a vortex point of many things happening all at once.
Very chaotic, but its in the chaos that we can create this new paradigm.

[learninglight]

Well well well.....here we go

pqpi3oX8kB8

[Corncrake]

Astrid - thanks for starting such an important thread and for all the Guardian extracts and those from Math 330 too. All time consuming but very necessary reading. I was feeling really emotionally heavy reading this so thanks to Cidersomerset as well for the stand-up links which brought some much needed light relief into the thread! Yes, the US/UK have been sending up smoke signals for a long time and it does seem to have intensified now they have Libya under their belt. I cannot believe we are going down this same old path again and yes I will get out there on the street and march against it and I will lobby my MP and I will join mass meditations. However, we have been here before and know that it is not enough but one cannot just sit back and complain about it without doing 'something'. It is the feeling of helplessness that is so debilitating. Of course with so many of us feeling the strain financially all our energy is going into just surviving which is what keeps so many of us in our subservient roles and not doing anything. Trying to end on a more upbeat note but give up - oh I know - check out Maz Jobrani a very funny US/Iranian stand up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADU1lhEb1X0.

[astrid]

Yes indeed VERY disappointing turn of events this last week or so.

I have had a few days to ponder this, and
being a big picture type, i have been wondering a few things.
That, if in fact we as a humanity need to go through this to more
fully understand what we as a people are doing to the planet.

I would have thought there was enough " in your face" evidence that
so many things are upside down and back to front, from what is required to
survive as a species here for very much longer.

Let us face it, its all a huge mess.

But understanding that this is all a game,
we are in earth school, where the aim is for us to
learn as much as we can, transcend the matrix
and evolve as a soul, allows one to view events,
not through a "them versus us" lens,
but from the position of seeing that we as a collective haven't "got it" yet.

I for one am certainly appealing right now to various parties, on planet and off
that this is not a road we need to go down.
And sure I'm only one person, but i will do my utmost,
why i still have breath in my body
to work against suffering on this planet

Stay in peace,

Astrid

[passiglight]

Hi all,,,,,,,,,hope this info helps a bit,,,,,,,,,,

qoute from here,,,,,,, http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=27489


Israeli President Shimon Peres said he believed a military strike against Iran was a more likely option than a diplomatic solution to the country's nuclear standoff.



“Intelligence services of various countries understand that time is running out and they are warning their leaders,” Peres said in an interview with Israel's Channel 2 on Friday, adding: “I am not sure that conclusions have not been made.”



“It would seem that Iran is getting closer to having nuclear weapons," Peres said. World leaders need to "fulfill their responsibility" to prevent Iran from becoming a nuclear power “whether that means serious sanctions or whether it means a military operation,” he added.



His remarks came following Israeli media reports that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was seeking his ministers' support for a military operation against Iran.

Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman has dismissed the reports as “absolutely unacceptable” and “harmful for the country.”



Tensions are mounting against Iran ahead of a crucial report on the country's nuclear program to be presented by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) next week. Western powers suspect Iran of seeking to build nuclear weapons under the guise of peaceful energy generation, a charge Tehran denies.



Stop NATO e-mail list home page with archives and search engine:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stopnato/messages

Stop NATO website and articles:
http://rickrozoff.wordpress.com
November 5, 2011

and much more here,,,,,,, http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=newsHighlights&newsId=18

we are energy,, not for war,,,,,,,


M8C-qIgbP9o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8C-qIgbP9o&feature=related

peace

[Corncrake]

... and this was the man (Charlie Chaplin) who had to leave the States because of his left wing political sympathies.

[Calz]

Whole bunch of nuggetry but a clear example of the propaganda machine in action.

Iran says it will retaliate if attacked ... and of course that is considered "inflamatory". What??? How dare you imply you will defend yourself and not simply let us bomb you back into the stoneage!!! Just a nibble ... take the link if you want the whole enchalada with many pictures of missles and more predictable nonsense.

:frusty:

_____________________

Iran 'is ready for war': Tehran vows to retaliate if Israel and the West attack nuclear plants

Foreign minister Ali Akbar Salehi spoke on visit to Libyan city of Benghazi
Warns that West would be 'punished' if it seeks collision course

By Ian Drury and Rose Parker
Created 4:37 PM on 3rd November 2011


Iran ratcheted up tensions in the Middle East yesterday when its foreign minister declared the country was ‘ready for war’ with Israel and the West.

In inflammatory remarks certain to fuel uncertainty in the volatile region, Ali Akbar Salehi warned that Tehran would ‘not hesitate’ to retaliate if attacked.

His posturing came as Foreign Secretary William Hague urged Israel’s defence minister not to fan the flames during top-level talks in London.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2057210/Iran-ready-war-Tehran-retaliate-Israel-West-attack-nuclear-plants.html#ixzz1ct5VKw8T

[Lord Sidious]

Iran could cause the Straights of Hormuz to be closed for quite a while if they wanted to, thereby causing a huge oil shortage in the west.
It would be like the 1973 crisis all over again.

[Leon]

Just excuses for war...

It's much cheaper to buy nuclear weapons then it would be to manufacture them... go figure...

The world wants war. why to reduce world population without people saying too much... then were just war casualties...

[Calz]

If true ... this doesn't sound good ...

________________________


US sources: Israel ministers who opposed Iran strike are now for it

DEBKAfile Special Report November 6, 2011, 8:28 AM (GMT+02:00)

American sources told Fox television early Sunday, Nov. 6 that all the senior Israeli ministers who were formerly against attacking Iran's nuclear sites are now for it, having been updated on Iran's clandestine progress toward building a nuclear weapon. This information is due to be borne out when the IAEA publishes its next Iran report Tuesday, Nov. 8. The ministers are said to have changed their minds in the belief that the next round of sanctions will not be tough enough and point to the precedent of Israel's 1981 attack on Iraq's nuclear reactor which was never rebuilt.

According to debkafile's Washington sources, the Obama administration attributes the change of heart by those ministers to a conviction that Iran already has a nuclear weapon.

And so after ten days after feverish, unattributed Israeli news reporting on an imminent attack, the administration has drawn certain lines: Israel should go forward with its plans to strike Iran, while Washington will stress "diplomatic strategy."

This phrase, new in official US language on the nuclear controversy with Iran, does not rule out the military option. It was first aired last Thursday, Nov. 3 by US Deputy National Security Adviser for Strategic Communications Ben Rhodes, a member of the Barack Obama party attending the G-20 summit in Cannes.

All in all, public US administration responses to the prospect of Israel taking military action on Iran in own its hands have been unusually mild.

Friday, Nov. 4, another American television station CNN quoted a "senior US military official" as commenting that the administration is no longer sure that Israel would give the US warning of an attack.

However, while voicing concern and reporting stepped up "watchfulness" of both Iran and Israel, the official's tone was not critical of Israel, despite the fact that Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu had been understood to have assured the US president when they met in the past year that Israel would not attack Iran without prior warning to Washington.
A second US military official stressed that Iran is the largest threat to the United States in the Middle East.

These US officials appeared to be warning Tehran that because of the level reached by its weapons-geared nuclear program, the Obama administration could no longer hold Israel back from exercising its military option.

On the issue of Israeli action against Iran, the tone from US official sources has undergone a marked change.

The former routine putdowns from Washington sources asserting a) that Israel was not up to a lone military operation and that anyway b) it would only have the limited effect of putting the Iranian weapons program back four years, are no longer heard - especially since the US Defense Secretary Leon Panetta visited Israel last month.

http://www.debka.com/article/21453/


*** more ***


Israel's Peres warns attack on Iran getting 'closer'

By Charly Wegman (AFP) – 1 day ago

JERUSALEM — Israeli President Shimon Peres warned on Sunday that an attack on Iran is becoming increasingly likely, days before a report by the UN's nuclear watchdog on Iran's nuclear programme is due.

"The possibility of a military attack against Iran is now closer to being applied than the application of a diplomatic option," Peres told the Israel Hayom daily.

"We must stay calm and resist pressure so that we can consider every alternative," he added.

"I don't think that any decision has already been made, but there is an impression that Iran is getting closer to nuclear weapons."

His comments came after he warned in an interview aired by Israel's privately-owned Channel Two television on Saturday that an attack on Iran was becoming "more and more likely."

"The intelligence services of the different countries that are keeping an eye on (Iran) are worried and putting pressure on their leaders to warn that Iran is ready to obtain the nuclear weapon," he said.

In France meanwhile, French Foreign Minister Alain Juppe warned that an attack on Iran would be disastrous.

"We have imposed sanctions that continue to expand, we can toughen them to put pressure on Iran," Juppe told Europe 1 radio.

"We will continue on this path because a military intervention could create a situation that completely destabilises the region," he said.

"Everything must be done to avoid the irreversible."

In recent days, speculation in Israel has grown about the possibility of a pre-emptive strike against Iranian nuclear facilities, with Haaretz newspaper reporting that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Defence Minister Ehud Barak were seeking cabinet support for an attack.

And the military last week carried out what Israeli media called a "ballistic missile" test, as well as a large-scale civil defence drill simulating the response to conventional and non-conventional missile attacks.

Officials said both events were long-planned, but they drove talk here about whether Israel is ramping up plans for an attack.

On Sunday, Haaretz reported that US officials had failed to secure a commitment from Israel that it would coordinate any attack plans with Washington.

Still, media reports suggested no final decision has been taken and that a report by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) nuclear watchdog on November 8 or 9 would have a "decisive effect" on decision-making.

Previous IAEA assessments have centred on Iran's efforts to produce fissile material -- uranium and plutonium -- that can be used for power generation and other peaceful uses, but also for the core of a nuclear warhead.

However the new update, which diplomats say will be circulated among envoys on Tuesday or Wednesday, will focus on Iran's alleged efforts to put the fissile material in a warhead and develop missiles to carry them to a target.

On Monday, Barak denied reports that he and Netanyahu had already decided to attack Iran over the opposition of military and intelligence chiefs.

But he said "situations could arise in the Middle East under which Israel must defend its vital interests independently, without having to rely on regional or other forces."

Haaretz said a majority of the 15 members of Israel's security cabinet were still against an attack on Iran, and a poll published by the newspaper found Israeli public opinion divided, with 41 percent in favour, 39 percent opposed and 20 percent undecided.

Israel has consistently warned all options remain on the table when it comes to Iran's nuclear programme, which the Jewish state and Western governments fear masks a drive for nuclear weapons.

Iran denies any such ambition and insists its nuclear programme is for power generation and medical purposes only.

In comments published on Sunday, Iranian Foreign Minister Ali Akbar Salehi accused the IAEA of "political" behaviour and said its report would be "baseless."

"I believe that these documents lack authenticity. But if they insist, they should go ahead and publish. Better to face danger once than be always in danger," several Iranian dailies quoted Salehi as saying.

"We have said repeatedly that their documents are baseless. For example one can counterfeit money, but it remains counterfeit. These documents are like that," Salehi said.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gfFabtzIUjEb5RT2lleIbyRSxP4w?docId=CNG.ba960336eef0b6b64d443031b729e9c7.41

[Carolin]

Do you guys think it's just a coincidence that TPTB have more or less taken over the countries on either side of Iran (Iraq & Afghanistan). If you've ever played the board game Risk (the game of global domination), that's a classic move.

[Lord Sidious]

Do you guys think it's just a coincidence that TPTB have more or less taken over the countries on either side of Iran (Iraq & Afghanistan). If you've ever played the board game Risk (the game of global domination), that's a classic move.

Nope, not coincidence.