Euro will collapse, 'Pig States' to bring EU down [Archive]

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Swami

20th March 2010, 16:32

EU finance ministers are about to thrash out how they can help debt-stricken Greece. Not all are convinced, saying prospects of a deal look bleak. Greece has been ravaged by strikes and protests as it tries to plug its 419-billion-dollar black hole. For more on this, RT talks to Euro MP David Campbell Bannerman, from Britain's UK Independent Party.

Source: http://economycollapse.blogspot.com/2010/03/mep-euro-will-collapse-pigs-states-to.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MkSBC3Pp5s

Did you get the groceries honey...? :doh:

K626

20th March 2010, 16:51

This is part of the American dollar co-ordinated counter strike against the Euro, supported by U.S. based hedge funds lead by Soros. The realignment of a renegade Europe begins.

Peace

K

Swami

20th March 2010, 16:59

This is part of the American dollar co-ordinated counter strike against the Euro, supported by U.S. based hedge funds lead by Soros. The realignment of a renegade Europe begins.

Peace

K

Could you provide a link...?

K626

20th March 2010, 17:06

Could you provide a link...?

I don't do links mate. About 90% of the stuff on the internet is pure nonsense. Although I do remember Tarpley mentioning it somewhere..:p

FYi Soros and some key hedge fund managers met a couple of months back and were looking to destabalise the Euro and using this as a proxy attack the weakened funding postions of Euro governments inc UK and Germany. They are taking many financial positons right now against also Portugal, Spain and Italy seen as further dominoes that could fall. The target is the Euro central bank which in turn is looking at legislation against hedge fund predatory behaviour in the Euro market area.

K

MorningSong

20th March 2010, 19:39

Funny (not really), here in Italy the mass media never mentions any of this. I have read about it, though.

Weren't there 5 countries on the "bad" list: Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece and Spain (PIIGS....not necessarily in order of insolvency)?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/greece-austria-and-piigs-europes-risks/article1405259/

http://vimeo.com/9240437

http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/roubini22/English

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=10127859

aroundthetable

20th March 2010, 23:43

Britain is in a far worse economic situation than greece and are attempting to destabalise relations between russia america and china to gain some advantage. That was the analysis by either tarpley or keiser, sorry cant remember which.

Swami

21st March 2010, 09:47

Thx for the links and other info. PIIGS is the word to remember. I wonder how long it will take before the whole cardhouse comes tumbling down... :confused:

K626

21st March 2010, 11:37

Thx for the links and other info. PIIGS is the word to remember. I wonder how long it will take before the whole cardhouse comes tumbling down... :confused:

It came down in 1979.

aroundthetable

21st March 2010, 13:15

How wondefully the states to be sacrificed are being called the 'pig' states. Sounds like a psiop to me.

PINEAL-PILOT-IN MERKABAH

21st March 2010, 13:20

by the end of 2011 all currencies should be hyperinflated into oblivion. i think the plan is to destroy the euro and the dollar then leave coiuntries in chaos begging for a solution. the solution will of course be a cashless global currencie.

Fredkc

21st March 2010, 15:57

Coupla questions:
1. If they inflate "all currencies", then where are the rich supposed to hide their money? Gold?

2. If it's to be gold, or some commodity then, how does this occur without inflating the hell out of it's value?

I always get "confused" when I reach the point that, given there is some plot to destroy, or own everything, you reach a point where "they" have succeeded; where, and in what "thing" will they hide their wealth?

heyokah

21st March 2010, 22:19

[QUOTE=MorningSong;1392]

Weren't there 5 countries on the "bad" list: Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece and Spain (PIIGS....not necessarily in order of insolvency)?

It isn't mentioned in the Netherlands either.
PIIGS huh:eek:
Thanks for the info

Northern Boy

21st March 2010, 23:24

we will see i don`t think we will be waiting till 2011 to see it i think we will get that big slap in the face sooner then we all realize the pot is heating up now and the boiling water is starting to come over the edges of itsoon it will run over the top ............ Bring it on turn the heat up higher

Swami

23rd March 2010, 10:18

Greece targets church in massive tax grab

GREECE is cracking down on major cash transactions and will impose a high levy on the influential Orthodox church in a scramble to boost tax revenue in the face of a debt crisis.

A new draft bill to be tabled in parliament next week imposes a 20 per cent tax on the Orthodox church's real estate income, reportedly worth over 10 million euros ($14.8 million) a year.

Now where did I read/heard the taxing of the Churches before...... :confused:

Aah,... must be be in a Zappa-song from 1981

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtM89QYl8pc

White man CAN sing.........LYRICS (http://www.metrolyrics.com/heavenly-bank-account-lyrics-frank-zappa.html)

http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/8388/zappa585eb4.gif

MorningSong

26th March 2010, 00:39

This is something that slipped by me last month:

http://www.smh.com.au/business/warning-of-greek-crisis-spreading-across-eu-20100205-nil2.html

Here's what's new:

Greece, Eurozone 'not out of the woods yet,' says EU Economics Commissioner Rehn - EUXTV

http://www.iseenews.com/82309

Merkel, Sarkozy agree deal to save Greece

www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QL0z0LFz78

MorningSong

27th April 2010, 18:56

Remember this thread?

Well, today Europe took a dive:

* APRIL 27, 2010, 12:15 P.M. ET

MARKET COMMENT: Greek Stocks Slammed As Europe Stocks Slide

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20100427-715241.html?mod=rss_Global_Stocks

paul1972

27th April 2010, 19:18

It looks like Goldman Sachs was helping out Greece hiding there deficit for quite some time...

What currency is gonna fall first the Euro or the Dollar?

... ultimately the bubble must implode...

I can't believe I paid all that pension money... dumb, dumb

bashi

27th April 2010, 19:44

When they announced the Greece loan will be called, i think on last Friday, the rates were supposed to drop steep into the cellar. This is what happened instead for the 2-year greece bond:

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/7989/greek2year.jpg (http://img440.imageshack.us/i/greek2year.jpg/)

The pic is already more than 24 hours old. Today in the morning the rates were above 14.3 ...
So it looks like as it is spiralling out of control.

.

K626

27th April 2010, 20:29

Is this the one world currency agenda gently unfolding? ha ha :p

bashi

27th April 2010, 20:36

Greece bonds have further accelerated to over 15%....(Correction, false info)

http://www.favstocks.com/greek-2-year-yields-hit-18-on-sp-cut-contagion-hits-portugal-credit-swaps-on-sovereign-debt-at-record-highs-blind-panic/2710318/

....

bashi

27th April 2010, 20:48

Here a more current status:

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/5369/92259396.gif (http://img8.imageshack.us/i/92259396.gif/)

bashi

27th April 2010, 20:53

Portugal gets dragged in:

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/318/9225920port.gif (http://img638.imageshack.us/i/9225920port.gif/)

Stormy times...

bashi

27th April 2010, 21:03

The spread betwee german and greek bonds:

http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/8522/89931252spreadbig.gif (http://img718.imageshack.us/i/89931252spreadbig.gif/)

Its a bloodbath...

bashi

27th April 2010, 21:45

The yield rose above 18% (this time confirmed):

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?sid=arcBh6Q.CBb0&pid=20601087

bashi

28th April 2010, 08:56

The boat is rocking and the Germans play cool:

Speaking at an election rally Tuesday afternoon, German Chancellor Angela Merkel said it is appropriate to tell Greeks, "You have to economize, you have to become fair, you have to be honest; if not, nobody can help you," according to the German news agency DAPD.

bashi

28th April 2010, 09:02

Today morning:

"Greek 2 year government bond yield at 22.7%"

bashi

28th April 2010, 09:16

Here a timeline for the bailout:

848

Swanny

28th April 2010, 09:20

The good news in England is that house prices are up by 10% on this time last year :lol:

Mulder

28th April 2010, 10:12

I don't think British house prices being up is good news because they are way too high & need to come down - e.g. one way to value a house is it should be around 3 X the average wage of its suburb. So with people losing their jobs, house prices should be falling. About the Euro, its just a see-saw one month the Euro is down (will collapse) & the $US is up (won't collapse), then the next month vice-versa. Gerald Celente has said the elite can keep printing money & put-off the collapse for years. Almost all currencies, house, gold, oil prices are manipulated & the elite build up one (making money on the way up) then destroy it (making more money on the way down). Its really a sick game.

Luke

28th April 2010, 11:02

Gerald Celente has said the elite can keep printing money & put-off the collapse for years. Almost all currencies, house, gold, oil prices are manipulated & the elite build up one (making money on the way up) then destroy it (making more money on the way down).
Yes, IF they will be careful then can play the shell game for many years. Hyperinflation would not come near IF they manage to keep all created "new money" out of the real market - they're mostly in stock exchange and "exotic financial products" right now. It's another simple way to close access to newcomers, without few millions, you cannot play "big boys game" ... . And all that products, securities: it's a maze where one do not know what one owns. It's virtual world, but tied with money to real world. And comparing sums that are in virtual world ... its many, many times bigger than real economy is.

Point is: funny money and real money are treated the same

Fredkc asked valid questions in post #11:

1. If they inflate "all currencies", then where are the rich supposed to hide their money? Gold?
2. If it's to be gold, or some commodity then, how does this occur without inflating the hell out of it's value?
What I think:
Ad1: Think on some level money doesn't exist, the real money are: property deeds, art objects, patents and "pulls" on politicians&others . Gold is only "exchange medium with intristic value"
Ad2: Inflation only affects goods on open market. Their goods are not on open marked, thus unaffected.
We're just so used to "counting", Forbes 500 list etc. It lists value in $$$ .. but that's converted value: stocks, options, objects d'art, patents is what makes that value, not exchange medium.

bashi

28th April 2010, 11:29

Also mineral rights have value. Even not extracted yet, it`s potentially there.

Gold is just paper, as long as you do not insist on physical delivery.

See this vid:

BfCn8NlLHko

The OTC guy argues exactly that: They don't have the gold, but they claim to know its "somewhere" in the cycle.
Would you accept a 10 ton truckload of electronic scrap, because it contains your 100 gram gold-bar?

.

bashi

28th April 2010, 11:45

What will likely be announced today is this:

They will give Greece EVERYTHING it needs and even MORE!

Angela Merkl will 100% reverse her stand and will stand together with ECB and IMF to hold the EU together.
Anything else would only sink the boat quickly, with everybody inside.

That will buy them some time (months?).
But sooner or later the return to roost will start.

.

Swanny

28th April 2010, 11:51

ollowing the downgrading of Greece's debt to "junk" status.

Doesn't sound good does it .......

Luke

28th April 2010, 11:53

bashi

28th April 2010, 12:05

Germany would not do that. Why?
Their constitution.
In the Lisbon treaty they (and only they) gotten clause that every EU law would be evaluated if it's in accordance with their constitution. Their law forbids in-EU money lends. Thus if Chancellor A.Merkel would stand for lend, she will be a criminal. Not lightly taken in Germany.
Way I see it: Greece will be kicked out of monetary union, with other countries soon to follow. Maybe it will be announced as "temporary" .. but truth is, EU cannot allow to whole concept of Euro to collapse.

Merkl will have to take the hit. Her election poker has not worked.

If you start cutting Greece out, who will be next Portugal, then Spain?
Because if you cut it, Greece WILL default and the signal will be that whoever is in trouble will be left alone. Instead of curing the disease, it will get more inflamed by seeking out the next victim.
So, no there will be a MASSIVE rescue mission. They will speed up the legislative process to make everybody feeling financially save. Thats the only way for them now.
Its too late for something else. You will see it today.

.

Luke

28th April 2010, 14:29

Well, as you say, we will see, one thing for sure, every option seems quite dark.
I will hedge my bets in following way:
10% - Bailout
45% - "Temporary" suspension of Greece's membership in Monetary Union (other offenders will follow)
45% - Creating a post of "Special Economic Commissary" for Greece, that will personally enforce "reforms" no matter what Greeks will think- ( End of economic independence, massive budget cuts, higher taxes resulting in revolts, in aftermath: Martial law and EU "Police intervention",Greece as EU "Protectorate", example for other countries.)

EDIT: Exposure to Greek debt by country, via zerohedge http://www.zerohedge.com/article/france-shaking-its-culottes-demands-immediate-implementation-bailout

EDIT2: Also via zerohedge : bailout estimates (he seems to agree with you, Bashi :) :) ) http://www.zerohedge.com/article/its-official-greek-debtor-possession-loan-now-%E2%82%AC100-125-billion-us-portion-greek-bailout-7-bi

bashi

28th April 2010, 14:37

bashi

28th April 2010, 14:54

So everybody is waiting.

BTW, i forgot to mention that today the yield on the greek 2 year bond was briefly at 38% . :eek:

Panta rhei

30th April 2010, 00:13

OK,
my bet:

100 % on a bailout with option to increase it to over 100 Billion, together with controlled and enforceable commitment of greece to restructure.
Massive pressure to ensure change of the law in Germany

0% on other possibilities.

.
I agree but I think this will only postpone the inevitable, I don't think they will be able to pay for all of the PIGS states.

And if bank runs will indeed take place all can happen very quickly....

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2010/04/bank-runs-in-greece-%E2%80%93-harbinger-of-another-axis-of-eurobank-risk.html

But we neglected to consider a more direct source of trouble, namely, that of bank runs in the countries at risk. John Mauldin’s latest newsletter tells us that is already underway in Greece:

Money is flying from Greek banks, which makes sense, as how can a bankrupt Greek government guarantee Greek bank deposits? I know that Greek bankers may have a different view, but Greek depositors are voting with their feet. And …it is not just Greece. It is fast becoming Portugal. And Spain is not far behind in my opinion.

Emmanuel

30th April 2010, 00:21

“If Greece is allowed to fail, the damage to the German budget and German taxpayers will with certainty be greater than if we rescue it,” said Roland Koch, state premier in Hessen and a leading member of Mrs. Merkel’s Christian Democrats, in an interview on Thursday with the daily newspaper Berliner Zeitung. “The faster a decision is made, the less harm will arise,” Mr. Koch said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/30/world/europe/30greece.html

who's bet is up?

Etherios

30th April 2010, 01:55

I am from Greece and it has taken me a while now to think anything good to say here but... we have been going down a path that is i think unique in all earth. As a scholar here in greece said this must be the first time in history that the ppl living in greece have consumed not only theirs but also all there grandchildrens economy. We have been living on credit that has gone that high that every child that is born owes 25k Euros.

The problem is that we cant react to this. Greeks are so blind and selfish atm that i believe we will start fighting among us, about who is to blame. After all these ppl are still siding with political parties and don't see what happened. I don't know if this is planed and if the hole oil scenarios are true but it looks like Greece has surrender to EU and the rest unconditionally. The news waste hours upon hours to explain what each little detail that someone said in EU means and no one talks about the future.

I truly believe this is a set up and i am sure our politician are part of it. Whats even worse is that ppl don't see and don't react. If this goes on like this i fear for the worst ... even fighting on the streets. Just so you understand how ignorant (or traitors) our leaders are .... they passed or are trying to pass in the parliament a new bill that will give them permission to buy new laptops .... this will cost a few mill Euros.

I am sorry this is a bit pesimistic but ... i think ill stop listening to the news or at least just listen 1 time a day to keep me informed.

Luke

30th April 2010, 06:30

Etherios, thank you very much for your input.
Unfortunately, I think your situation is not unique - there is a similar problem in every "developed" country. Only difference is Greece become singled out due long-time media campaign, and involvement with one New York company (GS) that is currently "in the crosshairs" . UK or Germany have similar or worse GDP ratios, but they have enough POLITICAL power to keep their debt valued as "investment" grade obligations, while Greece debt has "junk" status atm..

People reactions to all this are also not that different from one could expect in any European country - most of them do not know when govt. is taking money from, not to mention the scale of the debt per capita. This would end in violent rebellions sooner or later, but for all the wrong reasons, as it was before, really. It's same scheme that is played since French Revolution, and people are none the wiser, bulk of them at least. Media are spreading fear, as ordered.

On a sidenote: sources here say all decision by German parliament would be delayed till may the 9th, that is day after elections in Westphalia. If they say "yes" then there is a protest waiting to be dealt with in Constitutional Court (made by group of Professors )
EDIT: Zerohedge: "It's over - the excess debt/GDP terrorists have won" (http://www.zerohedge.com/article/german-finmin-capitulates-says-piigs-global-moral-hazard-win)

Swanny

30th April 2010, 09:19

I agree but I think this will only postpone the inevitable, I don't think they will be able to pay for all of the PIGS states.

They can just print more money :)

bashi

30th April 2010, 11:33

"Germany's largest opposition party said it would move quickly to approve German participation, while European Union Economic and Monetary Affairs Commissioner Olli Rehn said the European Union should complete talks "within days”. However, Rehn said he still could not provide details of the deal, which he said were "conditional on fiscal consolidation."

Mr. Rehns speech he emphasis on “a multi annual program” has helped provide comfort to markets amid fears that the initial plan for a 45 billion euro package would only help meet Greece's borrowing needs through the current year. IMF officials have reportedly indicated the package could total between €100 billion to €120 billion."

Source: http://www.stockmarketsreview.com/forex/daily_forex_analysis_20100430_5780/

I seems that i am winning the bet. What do you say SaiCO?

.

Luke

30th April 2010, 12:10

All current data is in your favour, Bashi.

Still "talk" is not signed agreement :)

K626

30th April 2010, 12:44

stardustaquarion

30th April 2010, 12:48

They can just print more money :)

Apparently they can't because the ECB (European Central Bank). Of course the ECB can but that will not be a decision Greece can make

:blink:

Etherios

30th April 2010, 14:35

Without wishing to single the Greeks out, but just looking at things like pensions and corruption in Greece it looks to me like you guys have been living in some kind of dreamland and this is the wake up call. Good luck.

Peace

K

well just see these figures. total pop less than 10 million. total gov employes almost 1 million.... thats 1/10 workers here are employed by the goverment. in other EU countries they have 10 times less than us and a few times more total pop.

i wont try to make excuses... we get what we deserve .... its just sad.

K626

30th April 2010, 15:07

well just see these figures. total pop less than 10 million. total gov employes almost 1 million.... thats 1/10 workers here are employed by the goverment. in other EU countries they have 10 times less than us and a few times more total pop.

i wont try to make excuses... we get what we deserve .... its just sad.

Getting kicked out of the EU might have been a blessing in disguise. :p
Hope things work out for you.

Peace

k

Etherios

3rd May 2010, 14:00

K626

3rd May 2010, 14:20

There are some scenarios coming out from ppl here in Greece that look behind the lines.

1st they are trying to force a split of the Aegean sea between Greece and Turkey, ignoring the islands that have Greeks living on them ....

2nd There is a mass media depression tactics ... we are doomed we are dieing we wont survive etc.

3rd They are starting to whisper about selling out the oil deposits, the uranium/gold etc deposits of Greece to "savior" businessmen for very little so Greece can be saved.

So i want to ask all of you... is there anything we (the ppl) can do to stop all these? There is no way the terrified parents/workers of Greece to even try to see behind all this terror... they are listening to the media talking about how their lives will be lost ... everyday, all the day. Is there a way out? i wonder....

The problem in these very complex scenarios is gathering the people around a stable solution to act in a more direct rather than haphazard manner. Although this might be an oppurtunity to get some kind of real poeples movement going, using the circumstances as an energising force rather than a depressing force. It's always a good idea to take over a radio or tv station and put out 'alternative' information to the masses in Greece, that is where i would start....:eek::p

Good luck

K

Swami

5th May 2010, 18:19

Athens Burning........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1X6Vkppq9EQ

Three people burned to death in a bank......

bashi

5th May 2010, 19:01

The greek situation accelerated after the downgrading by the rating agencies.

Now the next country seems to be Portugal:

http://www.fxstreet.com/news/forex-news/article.aspx?storyid=f21b2f4e-db3a-465d-a348-1cc07e97afe7

.

Etherios

5th May 2010, 20:14

Yes not only 3 tho ... 1 of the ppl was a pregnant female ... sad ....

Martin

6th May 2010, 10:45

Yes, it really is sad.

But what happens now? I find it really unlikely that the public unrest and the demonstrations will stop in the future. Once again the banks will get their bailout right out of the pockets of the people. Now they are talking of new bankrupt arrangments concerning such states as Greece, but they wouldn't consider such things during the time of the first major bailouts of the banks. Instead of getting rid of all the financial waste they decided to keep it. Just insane. And you could really think that Greece is the first state to ever go bankrupt. The Euro really was doomed to go down this road right from the start. We even had a constitutional challenge against the Euro in 1998 I think and so we have one now against the "Greece-Bailout". Normally one would think it will be an easy decission for the constitutional court here in Germany, but for now I do not think so. Yes, the planed-half-done Greece-Bailout is against EU-law, but nobody seems to care. Once again the people here react on fear (of a financial meltdown) and even out of solidarity with the Greece people. Its all so messed up.

From my feelings I would say that they are in dire need of some major distraction, but we will see.

have a nice one
Martin

Etherios

6th May 2010, 10:57

The plan it seems to be to push Greece out of the EU and then Portogal or spain thus making the EU delete it self (implode?) An economic analyst for bbc said that Goldman Sacks guided the toxic bonds and dumped them in greek economy ... and they will keep dumping more there.

Its a plan... we are being pushed to react and i dont really know where we will head. Btw the ppl responsible for the atk wasnt with the ppl that were demostrating against the goverment. The last few years we have a "group" of ppl that hide their faces and do these kind of things everytime something is happening in greece. NOONE has ever being caught ... i really feel they are agents, either goverment or outside the country.

things will really get messy from now on... wish us luck everyone we will needed it.

p.s. i am really sorry for my bad english ...

Martin

6th May 2010, 11:27

Personally I do not think that Greece will be pushed out of the Euro. Because basically it would be probably the best thing to do for Greece. Sure, the concerned banks would need to withdraw from their financial interests, but that is what usually happens if someone goes bankrupt or is it not? I mean only Greece itself is able to leave the Euro and as far as your government is concerned I do not see that this is going to happen. They surely cannot put down the demonstrations by force and they most likely will not cut down the EU because they will need it in the future. But it is easy for me to talk about that. I wish you and all your people the very best and hope you all will be able to life in easier times soon.

Martin

Etherios

6th May 2010, 12:02

Thanx martin but soon ... isnt that close... they talk about 10-20 years minimum to get off this program and maybe 10 more years to start having a positive economy... thats 30+ years to pay off the bankers that stole us...

Martin

6th May 2010, 12:14

Well the current approach to solve the Greece problem is not a solution at all and I think you should not concern yourself with their estimation of ten to twenty years. Its probably all about lowering the standard of living and your land is sadly only the first to walk this road in sort of a "new dimension". Generally the standard of living is descending over the last decades in almost all "industrialized western countries. Maybe they are just trying to see how far they can push it for now. As sad as this is. I mean all the money that is prepared to "go to Greece" will never help a single Greek. Its going out and right to the banks, so that Greece itself will be allowed by them to make more dept/ money. I personally do not think that we will have this kind of system in 15 to 20 years, but who knows.

all my best
Martin

stardustaquarion

6th May 2010, 12:25

Luke

6th May 2010, 12:32

They have done the same to countries in South America over and over until they wised up and started dealing with the Chinese which is why the crisis has not hitted South America as badly as before.
Because they got to that level : (Villa 31, Buenos Aires)
http://blogs.clarin.com/blogfiles/vivaperon/villa31.jpg
(via excellent FerFAL's "Surviving in Argentina" blog (http://ferfal.blogspot.com/2010/04/villa-31-shanty-town-growing-at.html))

Greece could choose between accepting handouts (and become turned into beggar state) or went their own way, accepting hardships, but live it their own way. Politicians choose (years ago), then they lied to people, creating false image of prosperity, now there would be consequences. Worse, more will follow.
It's sad that such good-hearted people as Greeks are (at least to my experience), will be guinea pigs for crazy agenda.

Martin

6th May 2010, 13:51

Yo SaiCO,

have you read this "survival guide"? And if so would you recommend it? I just thought it might be not the worst thing to take a look.

And why does it not say "Don't panic!" on the cover?

grannyfranny100

6th May 2010, 14:17

Etherios
I wish I had some sage advice but I don't. However I have been surprised that Iceland stood up for itself and the bullies backed down.

Etherios

6th May 2010, 15:01

Etherios
I wish I had some sage advice but I don't. However I have been surprised that Iceland stood up for itself and the bullies backed down.

Well here is the most sad thing. Greeks still think its because the other political parties failed we end up here... so we are split in half between 2 big parties and i see fighting in the political world here.... we are not 1 yet.

They have "teach" the 40-50 years generations to be that much narrow headed and blind. Even at the moment we lost 4 ppl the head politicians we saying " we are sad ... BUT its the others fault bla bla bla "

PPL here have yet to realize that the blame is to be given to all politicians and unite against them .... we still point fingers between us.

It works well it seems , media = mass fear and depression , politicians = blaming each other with no one proposing anything , thus = failure.

P.S. this has just started you will see alot more in the next weeks. Also things have been given to IMF/EU what ever a few weeks ago and all this is a farce to persuade the greeks to accept or bankrupt . So its a threat obey or perish.

bashi

8th May 2010, 19:53

A storm is brewing:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601009&sid=afPiOhKxYSq8

bashi

10th May 2010, 05:01

The storm was contained by throwing 750 Billion Euros at it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/feedarticle/9069601

Buying time ...

Luke

10th May 2010, 07:18

Something is brewing in Romania too : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/10101468.stm

Enter Stage 2?

Etherios

10th May 2010, 09:51

This is just weird really ... 1st they made this AFTER EU throw Greece to IMF and to destruction. Now in 1 weekend they planned this... i am sure all this is a plan. They will give all these billions to pay off the toxic debt. So they will give money to the ppl that tricked them and then they will have to repay + rates to the same ppl in a few years...

So they give us toxic/nothing we give them all we have + some we dont and then we owe them 2 times that...after the loans. 0 + 0 = we loose everything. GOOD DAMN PLAN

Northern Boy

10th May 2010, 10:05

Something is brewing in Romania too : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/10101468.stm

Enter Stage 2?

and the Ukraine,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, the domino theory will likely be in play here and like a ship sinking it will suck those in similar shape down with it

Lucrum

10th May 2010, 10:25

/sigh

Oh wait, I should elaborate...or, well...what is there to elaborate, really!

So.../sigh

:P

greenberet

10th May 2010, 13:02

This is what they wanted, get everybody into one currency, then raise up the taxes, and nailed every country inside the EU..... look poland! its growing because they didn´t join the euro, now that they killed their president.... everything fits together... this is no NEWs... it was their plan, now was it?

greenberet

10th May 2010, 13:13

pyrangello

10th May 2010, 13:27

So more monopoly money was printed to a tune of a trillion dollars for the EU and the systems they designed which are collapsing . Plain as could be the ones in charge gave away the farm to stay in charge and now to buy them more time to stay in charge lets get the ink out. It appears to me there are so many forces out there playing the roulette wheel , so many agendas, it just going to be one hell of a show watching the PTB wiggle around as the game of chess is being played out. My only concern is that this is all being stalled for a grand event, but somehow I have a feeling that it will be trumphed by events not within the PTB controls, sucks to be them then.

Even here in the states it looks like there are stilts being propped up under every critical situation , you can do that for a while but even the stilts can only hold so much weight and then they will even begin to fail. Every system needs a correction periodically , if that is not allowed to happen then you prolong the correction only for when it does eventually happen it will be on a greater magnatude. The common worker who was promised so much under state control is in for a rude awakening in the near future. The numbers just don't add up .

Martin

10th May 2010, 16:58

Panta rhei

10th May 2010, 23:54

Our Finance Minister W. Schäuble had been taken to a hospital in Brussel yesterday. If the cause for that really was an adverse reaction to medication is in my opionen questionable. Maybe even he couldn't handle the numbers anymore. The EU can now take up to 750 billions right out of thin air eh I mean from the EZB. So the great printing can begin. By now it is so obvious that eiter all of our politics are stupid or that they are willingly try to destroy their own people. Hopefully people will FINALLY start to notice.
They are desperately trying to keep the system going, printing money is the only solution they see but it will only create a much bigger bubble.

(for you Martin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2a5QLDPP5_M)

I was looking for a video or a link that describes the real problem behind all of this (interest and the bubble effect) in English language, but I can't find anything. Somebody maybe has a link tip?

Etherios

11th May 2010, 01:02

Our Finance Minister W. Schäuble had been taken to a hospital in Brussel yesterday. If the cause for that really was an adverse reaction to medication is in my opionen questionable. Maybe even he couldn't handle the numbers anymore. The EU can now take up to 750 billions right out of thin air eh I mean from the EZB. So the great printing can begin. By now it is so obvious that eiter all of our politics are stupid or that they are willingly try to destroy their own people. Hopefully people will FINALLY start to notice.

Maritn

I think the real question is ... Is this failure something they control, meaning they want it to fail to force us a 1 world currency? OR the system is auto failing and they are running around like chickens trying to postpone the end?

I mean we all know its failing right? we just see bigger and bigger numbers and no end to this and we already know that the markets are controlled so why risk with these games???

Luke

11th May 2010, 05:38

It's about US, but structural problem is the same
http://www.iousathemovie.com/

Martin

11th May 2010, 07:11

... I mean we all know its failing right? we just see bigger and bigger numbers and no end to this and we already know that the markets are controlled so why risk with these games???

I would say defintetly YES. Because generally it had to come to this point right from the start and I do know some of the major problems behind it. (@ Panta rhei, thanks anyway, I did not see that in 2008.) I mean, if you put all your money on a table or in a bank vault what will it do? Will it "work"? No, its just money. We as a race should go bright red with shame for beliving so long in a stupid idea like that. The time for a one world currency is not yet. They still have to shear the sheeps down naked and some of us are still very hairy. Currency reforms are discussed and in the end they will be used (as they generally were everytime before) as a solution to collect the very last furry drops.

The numbers. Germany has now more than 1,7 trillions of dept. We will and never were able to pay back that kind of money. What exactly are the peoples in controll risking? They getting richer by the minute. It is of course all about control. Money is proverbially just the symbol for that and what they are trying to do right now is taking controll over the financial systems of each one of the european states.

Martin

bashi

11th May 2010, 16:34

So the EURO crisis is postponed.
QE has set in:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2010/05/11/bloomberg1376-L298HB07SXKX-2.DTL&type=printable

The burden is on the Euro:

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/3549/euro0511.png (http://img217.imageshack.us/i/euro0511.png/)

Swami

11th May 2010, 17:51

According to the webbot-guys a SHARKTOOTH-pattern will be going on untill around the 11th of August. Then we will see a steep decline in them markets...!
Something (BIG) will also happen around the 8th of July,........according to them..............

http://www.grinningplanet.com/articles/predictions/clif-high-interviews-web-bots-predictions.htm#20100423

bashi

11th May 2010, 20:56

Swami

11th May 2010, 21:03

Where exactly is the 11th August quote?
I read about November being significant...

That my friend is info I got from somebody pretty close to them webbot-guys.......

Etherios

12th May 2010, 10:16

Omg i am so pissed... we are all so brain washed its sad... either most media and most analysts are on a pay roll or they really believe that this was inevitable and that if we try we will overcome this...

OMG how can we overcome this when we get deeper and deeper in that black hole? And i am not only talking about greece this is a EU thing... we are going deep in that black hole and we are still saying that we will be ok...

WHEN will the damn idiots ruling the EU nations wake up and see reality? They cant all be peons of TPTB... or are they? damn it...

Swami

13th May 2010, 14:48

Protesters attempt to storm Irish parliament

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01634/gardai_1634905c.jpg

Police say officers staffing the wrought-iron gates drew batons and forced back several dozen protesters. They said the protesters' injuries were minor and none were arrested.

Tens of billions' worth of dud property loans are being transferred from five Irish banks to a new government-run "bad bank." The government also has bought multi-billion stakes in Allied Irish Banks and Bank of Ireland.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ireland/7712972/Protesters-attempt-to-storm-Irish-parliament.html

stardustaquarion

13th May 2010, 14:56

quote
Bankers jailed, sued as Iceland seeks culprits for crisis

More than a year and a half after Iceland's major banks failed, all but sinking the country's economy, police have begun rounding up a number of top bankers while other former executives and owners face a two-billion-dollar lawsuit.

Since Iceland's three largest banks -- Kaupthing, Landsbanki and Glitnir -- collapsed in late 2008, their former executives and owners have largely been living untroubled lives abroad.

But the publication last month of a parliamentary inquiry into the island nation's profound financial and economic crisis signaled a turning of the tide, laying much of the blame for the downfall on the former bank heads who had taken "inappropriate loans from the banks" they worked for.

On Wednesday, the administrators of Glitnir's liquidation announced they had filed a two-billion-dollar (1.6-billion-euro) lawsuit in a New York court against former large shareholders and executives for alleged fraud.

"I think this lawsuit is without precedence in Iceland," Steinunn Gudbjartsdottir, who chairs Glitnir's so-called winding-up board, told reporters in Reykjavik.

"It is about higher figures than we have ever seen," she said, adding that she expected Glitnir to file more lawsuits going forward, but that "it is unlikely any will be this big."

Glitnir said it was suing "Jon Asgeir Johannesson, formerly its principal shareholder, Larus Welding, previously Glitnir's chief executive, Thorstein Jonsson, its former chairman and other former directors, shareholders and third parties associates with Johannesson for fraudulently and unlawfully draining more than two billion dollars out of the bank."

The bank also said it was "taking action against its former auditors PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC) for facilitating and helping to conceal the fraudulent transactions engineered by Johannesson and his associates, which ultimately led to the bank's collapse in October 2008."

Glitnir's suit, filed in the New York state Supreme Court on Tuesday, blamed most of the bank's woes on "Johannesson and his co-conspirators," who had "conspired to systematically loot Glitnir Bank in order to prop up their own failing companies."

Johannesson, the former owner of the now-defunct Baugur investment group with stakes in a number of British high street stores including Hamleys, Debenhams and House of Fraser, said he was shocked by the lawsuit.

"The distortions and the nonsense in the lawsuit are incredible," he told the Pressan news website.

Glitnir's administrators "can get a 10-year-prison sentence for misusing US courts in this manner," he insisted.

The bank's chief administrator Gudbjartsdottir took his comments in stride.

"I didn't expect him to be happy with the lawsuit," she said.

In addition to its New York suit, Glitnir said it had "secured a freezing order from the High Court in London against Jon Asgeir Johannesson's worldwide assets, including two apartments in Manhattan's exclusive Gramercy Park neighbourhood for which he paid approximately 25 million dollars."

Gudbjartsdottir said Johannesson had just 48 hours to come up with a satisfactory list of his assets.

"If he does not give the right information he faces a jail sentence," she said.

Four former Kaupthing executives, who all live in Luxembourg, have meanwhile been arrested in Iceland in the past week and Interpol has issued an international arrest warrant for that bank's ex-chairman, Sigurdur Einarsson.

Former head of the bank's domestic operations, Ingolfur Helgason, and former chief risk officer Steingrimur Karason were arrested late Monday on arrival from Luxembourg, just days after former Kaupthing boss Hreidar Mar Sigurdsson, along with Magnus Gudmunsson, who headed the bank's unit in Luxembourg, were taken into custody.

The 49-year-old Einarsson, who lives in London, said late Tuesday he had no plans to travel to Iceland to be arrested.

"I'm absolutely flabbergasted about the latest news," he told the Frettabladid daily.

"There is in my opinion no need for the arrests or custody rulings, and I will not of my own free will take part in the play that it appears is being staged to soothe the Icelandic people," he said.

"I'll put the human rights I enjoy here in Britain to the test and will not therefore come home (to Iceland) to these conditions without being forced," he added.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.4090f16a5abf84c5a5adff0665cbc792.3a1&show_article=1
unquote

Etherios

13th May 2010, 15:02

The downfall of EU isnt going to stop. Just look at how many trillions they are loaning... all those euros are not something EU had ... its something that appeared out of nowhere and its something that need to be paid off + interest ... HOW? i mean most EU ppl are broke or will be shortly ....

I think that this 750 billion Euros or more was the final stone of EU grave. They sealed the end and now are started to make it happen... This isnt over with this bailout program this is where it starts.

Gita

14th May 2010, 10:34

Gerald Celente: Banks robbing the people

qSorw9DnNO8

Gita

14th May 2010, 10:38

Heated Exchange in the Irish Parliament Over the Recent Bank Bailouts :blink:

Paul Gogarty from the Greens cursing in the Dail

CosVhlxpFao

Luke

15th May 2010, 08:40

The Selling Out Of Germany (http://www.zerohedge.com/article/selling-out-germany) <- great article that appeared on Zero Hedge (http://www.zerohedge.com)

In some ways it’s a battle of the politicians against the markets. That’s how I do see it. But I’m determined to win this battle.
- Angela Merkel

And we are the "Markets" ....

Lucrum

15th May 2010, 09:02

Etherios

15th May 2010, 12:00

As far as I've understood from reading various "expert" opinions on the situation, between the lines they are all saying that the situation is dire and there is no solution. The only thing keeping anything afloat is the illusion of things being ok, which is what the bailouts are for.
Norwegian economical advisor tried to explain what the money was for and explained that they were used to build up confidence with the shady investors as to not make them back out of the market.

So they are using trillions to rebuild the illusion of business as usual, hoping that the general populations are too blind or dumbed down to even notice that it ain't working.

As for why they are doing it like that, I can only speculate.

So they know this is failling so they are bringing all ppl down ... so when the end comes and its official we will all be peniless and we wont even complain... we will have nothing to loose so they think they win again. Maybe they even think (they might be right :( ) that after this they can start a new system with ofc them on top and rulling again. So they will "save" us from the failed system and enslave us in a new "better" system. I hope we wake up before that.

Etherios

15th May 2010, 13:44

Here about USA ... i think they are in a worst spot that EU... they just try to hide their heads in the sand...

Meltup (http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/45552/Meltup/)

SkepticSoul

15th May 2010, 14:10

Everywhere you go it's business as usual, i have many friends all over the world, let me tell u this, they don't give much tought on the economic state and they think it's just gonna pass like it always has. They on a personal level aren't feeling the effects of this economic crisis around the globe. People will start questioning really seriously only when they can personaly FEEL the effects of no more money...

bashi

17th May 2010, 08:53

"When it does all start coming apart and the dominoes do start falling, it is going to be a complete and total nightmare. Paper currencies around the globe will lose value at breathtaking speeds as central banks flood economies with cash in an attempt to stop the madness.
But more debt and more paper never solves anything. All it does is make the long-term problems even worse.
When the tipping point comes, things are going to move fast. Let's just hope that we all have a good bit more time to prepare before that happens."

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-the-uk-is-the-next-european-country-to-experience-a-massive-debt-crisis-2010-5

So the Portugal/Italy/Spain spiral got a new member, the UK, now?

.

Swami

17th May 2010, 15:55

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eb1n1X0Oqdw

LeeEllisMusic

18th May 2010, 13:53

Thanks for that video, Swami~
I've forwarded it on to those in my circle that I think *might* listen, as well as their website
http://inflation.us/about.html
I'm seriously looking into Silver.
Blessings,
Lee

PS Interestingly, I am not in fear about all this, as I might have been months ago. Something is afoot, changes are happening everywhere, and I'm doing my best to stay balanced and calm as I prepare as best I can...

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=592

Etherios

19th May 2010, 10:16

German now say no to the uncovered finacial atcks... erm are they fighting each other or is this to maintain the current situation and move the downfall of Euro as far to the future as possible?

Found a link : Germans Ban ... (http://www.thelocal.de/politics/20100519-27289.html) + Ban ... (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601100&sid=akYcqo9Z87A4)

Luke

19th May 2010, 11:39

Actually NAKED short selling ban is quite reasonable .. all in all that means somebody can sell shares he does not own/borrowed and then buy shares that fallen in price (as a result, if batch is big enough). One of more questionable practices in the market.

Now, a ban on all short selling would be disaster, as these are "no confidence votes" for given company. When performed in normal way, that's very important economic indicator. banning all short selling would mean that prices can only rise .. wet dream for some politicians&shareholders, but major disaster for all else.

Gita

20th May 2010, 12:03

Quote

Euro in Danger: Germans Trigger Panic Over Future of Single Currency

'Shocked European ministers are preparing for emergency talks to shore up the euro after markets fell in reaction to panic measures in Germany.
Angela Merkel stunned EU capitals by warning that the euro was in danger and triggered fears of a fresh financial meltdown by announcing a ban on risky trading practices by speculators. The German Chancellor’s actions opened up new cracks in the single currency, drawing sharp criticism from France and prompting Brussels to issue an appeal for unity.'

Read more: Euro in Danger: Germans Trigger Panic Over Future of Single Currency (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article7131340.ece)

unquote

bashi

21st May 2010, 22:23

There is MASSIVE intervention going on to strengthen (yank up) the Euro.
This intervention came outside the banking time of Europe.
It likely came from the CB of Japan and is an artifical market disruption by itself:

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/2651/euro2.png (http://img191.imageshack.us/i/euro2.png/)

bashi

23rd May 2010, 08:00

No comment, :pound::pound::pound:

thSTpGnWEAs

Gita

23rd May 2010, 10:53

Quote

Euro Collapse Looms? Will the Ban on Naked Short Selling Reverse the Slide of the Euro?

'Germany's Chancellor Angela Merkel says the Euro currency is at risk and that Europe faces its greatest challenge since the EU was formed. It comes as stock markets in Europe and Asia tumbled on the surprise news that Berlin was banning types of 'short selling' where investors profit by betting that shares will drop in value.'

ROkUjkdq1W0

Unquote

Gita

24th May 2010, 09:40

Quote

The Euro Crisis is a Judgment on the Great Lie of 'Europe'

'What we are witnessing here is a judgment on the entire deceitful and self-deceiving way in which the "European project" has been assembled over the past 53 years. One of the most important things to understand about that project is that it has only ever had one real agenda. Everything it has done has been directed to one ultimate goal, full political and economic integration.

The headline labels put on the various stages of that process may have changed over the years, such as building first a "common market", then a "single market", finally a "constitution". But by far the most important project of all was locking the member states into a single currency.'

Read more: The Euro Crisis is a Judgment on the Great Lie of 'Europe' (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/7754100/The-euro-crisis-is-a-judgment-on-the-great-lie-of-Europe.html)

Unquote

bashi

26th May 2010, 20:55

The Euro has fallen back to levels which are similar to the ones before the 750 Billion bailout:

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/8358/20100526153009snapshot2.png (http://img202.imageshack.us/i/20100526153009snapshot2.png/)

morguana

26th May 2010, 21:27

i am very glad that this thread is still going, have been following it with much interest........thank you all
m

Emmanuel

26th May 2010, 22:39

Very Funny, Bashi.. I enjoyed. But is serious..
Follow up..................................................................................
The euro continues to crash, taking a beating due to the sovereign debt crisis. And while the dollar seems to be rising as a result of the sliding euro — it's really not gaining strength. It too is losing purchasing power!

There's only one currency in the world that's rising — even hitting new record highs in terms of its purchasing power. http://www.uncommonwisdomdaily.com/the-only-currency-going-up-9431?FIELD9=2
Best,

Larry

P.S. We are still biding our time waiting for the definitive "buy" signal in gold that we expect will come at virtually any moment.

Gita

27th May 2010, 08:44

Quote

Towards Another Stock Market Meltdown?
...

Europe is rescuing its economy in the same way that the Federal Reserve has attempted to same America’s financial system and economy. They have used an unprecedented aid and stimulus package to offset massive fiscal deficits. In the US a deflationary depression was avoided at least temporarily and that is what is now being attempted in Europe with the guidance of the Federal Reserve.

This kind of program was implemented during the 1930s when we are told that unemployment was 25%. During the late 1930s the program failed to pull America out of depression. Unemployment in 1939 was 17.4% and in 1940 it was 16.2%, hardly the results hoped for and anticipated. The result was WWII. We are headed in the same direction today, as the Middle East and Asia smolder ready at any time to burst into flames.

In the US liquidity was unleashed on a massive scale and that is what will happen in Europe. It is the only way they can keep the system functioning.

We Are now closing in on the next planned world war as a result. When and where we can only guess, but it surely is on the way, the same way it was in the late 1930s. War is a distraction and it succeeds in culling the population. It is also a cover-up for massive financial and economic problems that have resulted from the financial elite looting the system.

The system is not being fixed and deliberately so. The elitists do not want it fixed. They want a collapse. This is the only way they can force people to accept world government.

…

Unquote

Full article. (http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=19352)

Gita

27th May 2010, 12:13

Loved the vid bashi. :thumb:

Europe's Web of Debt
http://www.davidicke.com/images/stories/May20104/02marsh-image-custom1-v3.gif

Source (http://www.davidicke.com/headlines)

bashi

27th May 2010, 18:17

And up again:

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/1162/eurosnapshot2090.png (http://img38.imageshack.us/i/eurosnapshot2090.png/)

which is a good sign.
Also the "safehaven" US bonds we rising, which is also a sign that the rush out of the Euro and into the US has subsided a little:

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/3951/us10yearsnapshot2089.png (http://img683.imageshack.us/i/us10yearsnapshot2089.png/)

Etherios

27th May 2010, 18:30

All i see is that they are playing around with numbers and we cant make a proper judgment because all is "fixed" and it can change as they want.

lightblue

27th May 2010, 21:29

pretty graphs...thank god for powerpoint :playball: l

Gita

28th May 2010, 12:02

quote

The Collapse of Stock Markets is the Result of Financial Manipulation

Economist Michel Chossudovsky gives his assessment of what's going on in the world of finances. He believes the worst of the global crisis is yet to come and all the measures taken to stop it are actually hurting the economy.

Their cure will kill us! Michel Chossudovsky on State of Financial Emergency

-JEf9-vxxkM

Unquote

Source (http://www.davidicke.com/headlines)

bashi

29th May 2010, 08:46

Spain has been downgraded by Finch Rating agency after markets have already closed.
This came one day AFTER Spain has voted for a €15bn (£12.7bn) austerity package.

It seems that the rating agencies are a very powerful tool, applied at the right time, to further pressurise the Euro.
The (desired?) effect is a flight into the Dollar, yanking it up beyond any reason.

Germany`s chancellor Merkel has already called for a European rating agency.

Package:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/7771293/Spain-approves-15bn-austerity-budget-by-one-vote.html

Rating:http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a99f_zxhRZJY&pos=2

.

bashi

30th May 2010, 09:44

Here the rift between Europe and America is clearly stated:

zVryPHJZokw

Gita

30th May 2010, 10:12

Quote

Greece Urged to Give up Euro

THE Greek government has been advised by British economists to leave the euro and default on its €300 billion (£255 billion) debt to save its economy.

The Centre for Economics and Business Research (CEBR), a London-based consultancy, has warned Greek ministers they will be unable to escape their debt trap without devaluing their own currency to boost exports. The only way this can happen is if Greece returns to its own currency.

Greek politicians have played down the prospect of abandoning the euro, which could lead to the break-up of the single currency.

Speaking from Athens yesterday, Doug McWilliams, chief executive of the CEBR, said: “Leaving the euro would mean the new currency will fall by a minimum of 15%. But as the national debt is valued in euros, this would raise the debt from its current level of 120% of GDP to 140% overnight.

Unquote

Continued here. (http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article7140270.ece)

Luke

31st May 2010, 11:56

The EuropeanCentralBank Blasts Governmental Fear-Based Racketeering, (http://www.zerohedge.com/article/ecb-blasts-governmental-fear-mongering-questions-keynesianism-believes-fed-powers-are-overes) Questions Keynesianism, Believes The Fed's Powers Are Overestimated
by ZeroHedge
Somebody did not get the memo, or we're witnessing a split in banking cartel?
I mean , to openly question Keyensian god? To say banks are fearmongering to be bailed out?
The above Gita's post(#115) about urging Greece to leave eurozone is also a shot across the bow of current policy of "to big to fail" .. strange indeed.

Gita

31st May 2010, 12:40

Quote

Top German Bankers See Plot To Funnel Bailout Money To French Banks

From the beginning, it’s been clear that the bailout of Greece would be a bailout in large part of French banks, owing in part to the fact that French banks had the biggest exposure.

Yet apparently some top German bankers are alarmed at how things are playing out.

A report in Der Spiegel (in German) suggests that top Bundesbank bankers see a “plot” underway at the ECB.

From Google Translate

Germany’s top bankers are confused: € 25 billion, the ECB has so far spent on Greek government bonds. According to SPIEGEL information suggested the Bundesbank, that is served chiefly to Paris – so French Institute could get rid of their scrap paper.

Here’s what they’re upset about: The ECB is buying up Greek debt (largely from French banks), but the Germans don’t understand why. After all, Greece has already received its bailout money already ; Greece should be able to pay back its debt in full.

Why, then, do French banks need to offload its junk paper?

Beyond the fact that the French have the biggest exposure, there’s another reason why the French may be winning bag:

Some senior central bankers do suspect a French plot, after all, ECB chief Jean-Claude Trichet, a Frenchman, under pressure from French President Nicolas Sarkozy revealed an iron rule of the monetary base – that is never to buy government bonds from Member States.

Throw in another Frenchman, the IMF’s Dominique Strauss-Kahn, and you have all the right people in power.

Unquote

http://www.prisonplanet.com/top-german-bankers-see-plot-to-funnel-bailout-money-to-french-banks.html

bashi

1st June 2010, 21:44

Geithner was in Berlin.
Here a photo which depicts the "welcome" by German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble :

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/6548/ph2010052705354.jpg (http://img101.imageshack.us/i/ph2010052705354.jpg/)

Gita

3rd June 2010, 21:53

Quote

Europe's Coming Summer Of Discontent

The summer of 2010 promises to be the most tumultuous summer in the short history of the European Union. The sovereign debt crisis sweeping the continent threatens to cause economic and political instability on a scale not seen in Europe for decades. The truth is that governments across the eurozone have accumulated gigantic piles of debt that simply are not sustainable. Prior to the implementation of the euro, these European governments often "printed" their way out of messes like this, but now they can't do that. Now they either have to dramatically cut government expenses or they have to default. But the austerity measures that the IMF and the ECB are pressuring these European governments to adopt are likely to have some very painful side effects. Not only will these austerity measures cause a significant slowdown in economic growth, they are also likely to cause the same kinds of protests, strikes and riots that we saw in Greece to erupt all over Europe.

Unquote

Continued here. (http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/europes-coming-summer-of-discontent)

Gita

4th June 2010, 11:07

Quote

Plunged into Chaos: Europe on the Eve of the Bilderberg Conference

The Bilderberg group will convene in Sitges, Spain, a resort community 30 km from Barcelona, on June 4-7. As usual, the information is supplied by James Tucker and Daniel Estulin who revealed that this year the issues topping the agenda of the club's meeting will be the global recession and the approaches to provoking such economic breakdowns that can help justify the establishment of a full-scale world economic governance.

Intending to prolong the global economic downturn for at least another year, the Bilderberg group hopes to take advantage of the situation to set up a “global ministry of finance” as a part of the UN. Though the decision was actually made at the group's meeting in Greece last year, according to Tucker the plan was torpedoed by US and European “nationalists” (for the Bilderberg group, “nationalists” is a generic term for all nationally-oriented forces espousing national sovereignty and statehood).

All year since the last meeting, representatives of the global executive management have been convincing the public across the world to embrace a “new financial order”. The idea recurred in the statements made by N. Sarkozy, G. Brown, and the freshly elected European Council President H. Van Rompuy, but – against the backdrop of a relatively harmless phase of the crisis - the activity remained limited to psychological conditioning and no practical steps have been taken. As Jacques Attali wrote quite reasonably in his After the Crisis, Europe has no right to demand a reform of the global financial architecture as long as it can't organize the institutions that would meet its own needs.

The debt crisis in Greece that currently puts in jeopardy the entire European financial system provides a pretext for drastic measures, and both the crisis and the measures are vivid illustrations of the strategy that employs chaos to reorder the existing arrangements. The deliberately generated chaos is tightly controlled by financial institutions, major banks, and hedge funds and serves as an efficient mechanism of governance and social restructuring.

The financial attack against Greece promptly evolved into onslaught on Euro and – as it became clear – the developments correlated marginally with the structural shortcomings of the Greek economy. The intensity of the crisis that momentarily posed a threat to the economic and even political integrity of the EU cannot be explained solely by the appetites of faceless financial players. There had to be more serious reasons behind the situation, and to an extent the objectives pursued by those who shaped it can be understood from the statements made by G. Soros. He maintains that the EU owes its current difficulties to the European (especially German) politicians' reluctance to move on, that huge problems await Europe unless it starts developing, and that a kind of a European Monetary Fund helping fight budget deficit must be created. In other words, Europeans are forced to choose between the collapse of the Eurozone and governance centralization.

Unquote

Continued here. (http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=19527)

bashi

8th June 2010, 19:12

Today the Swiss National Bank intervened into the Euro market and bought "heaps" of Euro in order to stabilize the ongoing devaluation. The effect lasted for a mere three hours...

http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/8252/eurchf.png (http://img571.imageshack.us/i/eurchf.png/)

Gita

9th June 2010, 11:30

Quote

Euro 'will be dead in five years'

The euro will have broken up before the end of this Parliamentary term, according to the bulk of economists taking part in a wide-ranging economic survey for The Sunday Telegraph.

The single currency is in its death throes and may not survive in its current membership for a week, let alone the next five years, according to a selection of responses to the survey – the first major wide-ranging litmus test of economic opinion in the City since the election. The findings underline suspicions that the new Chancellor, George Osborne, will have to firefight a full-blown crisis in Britain's biggest trading partner in his first years in office.

Unquote

Continued here. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/7806064/Euro-will-be-dead-in-five-years.html)

Gita

9th June 2010, 11:38

Quote

EU 'to vet British Budget before Parliament'

The European Union will vet the Chancellor's Budget before it is debated by MPs in the House of Commons or seen by the public, under plans agreed last night.

David Cameron faces a major row over the “budgetary surveillance” demand when the Prime Minister attends his first EU summit next Thursday.

Britain was isolated during a meeting of an “economic government taskforce”, chaired by Herman Van Rompuy, the EU President, last night.

Mr Van Rompuy and the European Commission have tabled plans that will require all of Europe’s governments to discuss their budget plans with other EU finance ministers and officials before they presented to national parliaments.

“A government presenting a budget plan with a high deficit would have to justify itself in front of its peers, among finance ministers,” said Mr Van Rompuy.

“There would still be time to adjust plans before the final budget plans are presented.”

Unquote

Continued here. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/7809991/EU-to-vet-British-Budget-before-Parliament.html)

Panta rhei

9th June 2010, 21:49

[SIZE="3"][COLOR="DeepSkyBlue"]Today the Swiss National Bank intervened into the Euro market and bought "heaps" of Euro in order to stabilize the ongoing devaluation. The effect lasted for a mere three hours...

The Swiss National Bank intervened for the last 6 weeks or so, they bought about 100 billions of Euro reserves.

Gita

21st June 2010, 09:08

Quote

Gold reclaims its currency status as the global system unravels

We already know that the eurozone money markets seized up violently in early May as incipient bank runs spread from Greece to Portugal and Spain, threatening the first big sovereign default of our era. Jean-ClaudeTrichet, the president of the European Central Bank (ECB), talked days later of "the most difficult situation since the Second World War, and perhaps the First".

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01662/gold_1662214c.jpg
Last week gold surged to an all-time high of $1,258 an ounce Photo: Alamy

The ECB’s latest monthly bulletin gives us some startling details. It reveals that the bank’s "systemic risk indicator" surged suddenly to an all-time high on May 7 as measured by EURIBOR derivatives and stress in the EONIA swaps market, exceeding the strains at the height of the Lehman Brothers crisis in September 2008. "The probability of a simultaneous default of two or more euro-area large and complex banking groups rose sharply," it said.

This is a unsettling admission. Which two "large and complex banking groups" were on the brink of collapse? We may find out in late July when the stress test results are published, a move described by Deutsche Bank chief Josef Ackermann as "very, very dangerous".

And are we any safer now that the EU has failed to restore full confidence with its €750bn (£505bn) "shock and awe" shield, that is to say after throwing everything it can credibly muster under the political constraints of monetary union? This is the deep angst that lies behind last week's surge in gold to an all-time high of $1,258 an ounce.

The World Gold Council said on Friday that the central banks of Russia, the Philippines, Kazakhstan and Venezuela have been buying gold, and Saudi Arabia’s monetary authority has "restated" its reserves upwards from 143m to 323m tonnes. If there is any theme to the bullion rush, it is fear that the global currency system is unravelling. Or, put another way, gold itself is reclaiming its historic role as the ultimate safe haven and benchmark currency.

It is certainly not inflation as such that is worrying big investors, though inflation may be the default response before this is all over. Core CPI in the US has fallen to the lowest level since the mid-1960s. Unlike the blow-off gold spike of the Nixon-Carter era, this rally has echoes of the 1930s. It is a harbinger of deflation stress.

Unquote

Continued here. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/7841961/Gold-reclaims-its-currency-status-as-the-global-system-unravels.html)

Gita

24th June 2010, 12:01

Quote

Germany could cause euro collapse: Soros

German’s budget savings policy risks destroying the European project and a collapse of the euro cannot be ruled out, billionaire investor George Soros said in a newspaper interview released on Wednesday.

“German policy is a danger for Europe, it could destroy the European project,” he told German weekly Die Zeit.

Mr. Soros, who earned $1-billion in 1992 by betting against the British pound, added that he “could not rule out a collapse of the euro.”

“If the Germans don’t change their policy, their exit from the currency union would be helpful for the rest of Europe,” he said.

Chancellor Angela Merkel unveiled plans earlier this month for €80-billion ($107-billion) in budget cuts over the next four years – a package she hopes will bring Germany’s structural deficit within European Union limits by 2013.

“Right now the Germans are dragging their neighbours into deflation, which threatens a long phase of stagnation. And that leads to nationalism, social unrest and xenophobia. Democracy itself could be at risk,” Mr. Soros said.

“Germany is globally isolated ... Why don’t they let their salaries rise? That would help other EU states to pick up.”

Ms. Merkel on Monday defended her budget cut plans after U.S. President Barack Obama preached patience in clamping down on public spending. A German government official said on Tuesday Berlin did not expect to come under pressure at a G20 summit in Toronto this weekend to provide fresh stimulus measures.

Unquote

Source (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/germany-could-cause-euro-collapse-soros/article1614275/)

Luke

25th June 2010, 06:18

After Hitting 1,100bps In Spread, Greece Finally Relents And Puts (Parts of) Itself Up For Sale (http://www.zerohedge.com/article/after-hitting-1100bps-spread-greece-finally-relents-and-puts-parts-itself-sale)
by ZeroHedge
A quick list:
Stimulus- not working - as suspected
Constant danger of defaulting - check
Rumors of either club med leaving Euro (unlikely) or Germany creating Neues Euro (more possible)- check
Ah, and Bernake contemplating another QE (printing) run, up to $5Trillion, Geithner and Krugman laughed out Euro capitals ... check

On more serious note, above story was put by Guardian first, wonder if it'd be debunked or confirmed :P

MorningSong

25th June 2010, 19:43

I heard about the sale of Greek islands on the Italian TV.

Here is something that I found on the net:

http://sofiaecho.com/2010/06/25/922773_greek-islands-for-sale-report

The Greek government has decided that a part of the popular island of Mykonos, one of the country's most prominent tourist destinations, should be put for sale, in a desperate attempt by the state to generate some cash and fight its astronomical debt, the UK Guardian reported.

There are more than 6000 islands in Greece, of which only 227 are populated. The Greek government has been unable to develop basic infrastructure, or police most of its islands, thus foreign investment might be needed for that to happen. .

This could happen, either through a sale or a a long-term lease. The Private Islands website lists 1235-acre Nafsika, in the Ionian sea, on sale for 15 million euro, the report said.

The patch for sale is one-third owned by the government, which is looking for a buyer "willing to inject capital and develop a luxury tourism complex", the Guardian reported, citing a "trusted source close to the ongoing negotiations".

Property on the island of Rhodes, isalso being eyed up investors, mostly Russian and Chinese, the report said.

Russian and Chinese investors want to find suitable holiday destinations for their increasingly affluent populations in the Mediterranean country.

Greece was forced to accept a €110bn bailout by the EU and the IMF last month, following a decade of overspending which has left the country's financial books in tatters.

Meanwhile, tourists travelling to and from Greek islands continue to be hit by strikes and the closures of the port, which, according to the Greek daily Kathimerini, are set to continue.

The Greek communist party KKE blocked access to ferries protest the government’s plans to lift cabotage restrictions.

Thousands of tourists were stranded at Piraeus and other ports around the country on June 24 after a 400 strong crowd of KKE and affiliated labor union Pame blocked the boarding ramps of several ferries during a 24-hour strike against austerity measures being pushed through by the debt-ridden government, the report said

bashi

29th June 2010, 20:31

These are snippets:

Spain's banks are freaking out right now about the possibility that the ECB might take away its special €442 billion funding facility, according to the FT.

Since one year there is a monetary facility provided by the ECB, which was used to inject additional cash into the financial system.

This facility, will expire this week, on the 1st July, without any back-up plans by the ECB.

The ECB's plan to allow the funding facility to expire have been labeled "absurd" by Spanish banks lobbying for its continuation.

You can see what Spanish banks are worried about. Here's a chart detailing the liquidity drop off if the ECB allows the fund to expire on July 1:

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/7526/ecbliquidity.jpg (http://img685.imageshack.us/i/ecbliquidity.jpg/)

Various colours for different monetary tools. The anticipated sharp drop is obvious.

Additional a covered bond purchase scheme by the ECB (in grey) also expires as it has reached its threshold of 60 Billion €.

Add this to the Spanish government's funding need for July and there is a serious combination of problems facing the country. Here a list of impending spanish bond auctions:

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/2961/spaindebtcalendar.png (http://img138.imageshack.us/i/spaindebtcalendar.png/)

Spain faces a confluence of events in July, whereby it will need to finance 21.7 billion euros within a single month. This combines shortfalls in its budget and a wave of scheduled government debt redemptions.

AND: The 5yr bond auction takes place the same day the monster ECB facility expires.

Spain’s banks are freaking out right now about the possibility that the ECB might take away its €442 billion funding facility, according to the FT.

Can this get any crazier, or what?

YES !

Lets have a look at the ECB:

Even the ECB has to get its liquidity from somewhere.
The main financial instrument for this purpose are socalled Reverse Transactions:

"Reverse transactions refer to operations where the Eurosystem buys or sells eligible assets under repurchase agreements or conducts credit operations against eligible assets as collateral."
source: http://www.ecb.int/pub/pdf/other/gendoc2008en.pdf

These instruments had been used to inject liquidity in to the system. But now they’re coming due, and it seems as if inflation is not the issue to worry about and hasn’t been for a while:
Take a look at how much is now owed to the ECB:

http://professorpinch.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/ecb-tender-ops-6-25-10.png

"For the small facility on 6/30:
(€151.5114bn)[1+((7/360)(1%))] = €151.5409bn
For the large facility due on 7/1:
(€442.2405bn)[1+((371/360)(1%))] = €446.7980bn

The banks are going to have to come up with this cash within the next days."

The ECB will have to announce a new facility to roll all of the collateral that has been pledged and the banks can keep the Euros the ECB lent them. For now, anyway. But there has been no indicator they’re working on this. A lot of uncertaincy exisists who can honour them...

Better find something to hold on to and brace for impact…

Luke

7th July 2010, 06:55

Surprise Surprise Surprise!
Greece is Restructuring Debt Now (http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2010/07/greece-is-restructuring-debt-now.html)
For now "just" State Hospital System ... but will the others follow? :P

Luke

12th July 2010, 19:26

For anyone still interested:
Der Spiegel : Creating Order in the Euro Zone:Merkel's Rules for Bankruptcy (http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,705959,00.html)
Comment from zerohedge (http://www.zerohedge.com/article/berlin-pushing-european-bankruptcy-framework-provision-state-sovereignty-give):

new insolvency trustee (...) would take implicit control over and override a default nation's treasury, in essence pushing the bankrupt country into a form of Feudal vassal state-cum-reparations subservience. Welcome to financial warfare in the post-globalization period.

MorningSong

23rd July 2010, 20:13

Seven EU Banks Fail Tests With $4.5 Billion Shortfall

By Jann Bettinga and Charles Penty - Jul 23, 2010

Seven of the 91 European Union banks subject to stress tests failed with a combined capital shortfall of 3.5 billion euros ($4.5 billion), stirring concern the evaluations were too lenient.

Hypo Real Estate Holding AG, Agricultural Bank of Greece SA and five Spanish savings banks have insufficient reserves to maintain a Tier 1 capital ratio of at least 6 percent in the event of a recession and sovereign-debt crisis, lenders and regulators said today.

The banks are in “close contact” with national authorities over the results and the need for more capital, said the Committee of European Banking Supervisors, which coordinated the tests. Governments are seeking to reassure investors about the health of financial institutions after the debt crisis pummeled the bonds of Greece, Spain and Portugal.

“The amount of capital needed is much lower than the market expected,” said Mike Lenhoff, London-based chief strategist at Brewin Dolphin Securities Ltd., whose parent company oversees $33 billion. “The amount does seem quite trivial considering the concerns about losses from the sovereign crisis.”

Part of the reason the amount of capital needed was lower than analysts predicted may be because the evaluations took into account potential losses only on government bonds the banks trade, rather than those they are holding to maturity. That means the tests ignored the majority of banks’ holdings of sovereign debt.

What’s more, European banks have raised 220 billion euros in the last 15 to 18 months, which dwarfs the amount of money that U.S. banks raised following their stress tests, Credit Suisse Group AG analysts said in a note this week.

Test Criteria

Still, estimates for the amount banks would need to raise ranged from 30 billion euros at Nomura Holdings Inc. to as much as 85 billion euros at Barclays Capital. Tests carried out in the U.S. last year found 10 lenders including Bank of America Corp. and Citigroup Inc. needed to raise $74.6 billion of capital.

“The long awaited stress tests do not seem to have been that stressful after all,” said Gary Jenkins, an analyst at Evolution Securities Ltd., in a note. “The most controversial area surrounds the treatment of the banks’ sovereign debt holdings.”

The results were released after the close of European stock markets. The euro was little changed against the dollar, falling 0.02 percent to $1.2896 as of 7:39 p.m. in London.

Bond Losses

Regulators tested portfolios of sovereign five-year bonds, assuming a loss of 23.1 percent on Greek debt, 12.3 percent on Spanish bonds, 14 percent on Portuguese bonds and 4.7 percent on German state debt, according to CEBS.

The tests also assessed the impact of a four-step credit rating downgrade on securitized debt products, a 20 percent slump in European equities in both 2010 and 2011 and 50 other macroeconomic parameters, including an economic contraction in the EU, according to CEBS.

In Germany, Hypo Real Estate, the commercial-property lender rescued by the government following the financial crisis, was the only bank to fail among the 14 that were tested. Its capital ratio dropped to 4.7 percent in the most severe scenario, said the Bundesbank and the nation’s financial regulator, BaFin.

The German bank has a capital shortfall of about 1.25 billion euros. An “immediate need for capital would arise only if the hypothetical stress scenario actually did materialize,” the Bundesbank and BaFin said. Germany’s Soffin bank-rescue fund already provided Hypo Real Estate with more than 7 billion euros in funds through the end of June.

Spanish Banks

Agricultural Bank of Greece, 77 percent owned by the Greek state, reported a shortfall of 242.6 million euros and said it would proceed with a share capital increase.

Spain, with 27 tested banks, makes up the biggest portion of the exams. The savings banks that failed were CajaSur; a merger group led by Caixa Catalunya; a group led by Caixa Sabadell; Caja Duero-Caja Espana, and Banca Civica. Spain’s largest bank, Banco Santander SA, maintained its Tier 1 capital ratio at 10 percent under the most stringent scenario.

The savings banks have a combined capital shortfall of about 2 billion euros, according to documents posted on the CEBS website. Bank of Spain Governor Miguel Angel Fernandez Ordonez said the central bank will set a deadline for savings banks to raise new capital privately, before turning to public funds. The end of the year would be a reasonable deadline, although it could be brought forward, he said. Banca Civica today announced plans to raise 450 million euros by selling bonds convertible into shares to J.C. Flowers & Co., a U.S. buyout firm.

Near the Threshold

Banks that showed a drop in capital to near the 6 percent threshold include Greece’s Piraeus Bank SA, with a ratio of 6 percent, Allied Irish Banks Plc, with 6.5 percent, Italy’s Monte Dei Paschi di Siena SpA, with 6.2 percent, and Nova Ljubljanska Banka in Slovenia, with 6.3 percent.

Norddeutsche Landesbank, a German state-owned lender, and Deutsche Postbank AG, the German retail bank partially owned by Deutsche Bank AG, reported ratios of 6.2 percent and 6.6 percent, respectively, in the sovereign-shock scenario.

In France, BNP Paribas, Societe Generale SA, Credit Agricole and BPCE SA each have enough capital to outlast an economic slump and a sovereign debt crisis, the Bank of France said. In Britain, HSBC Holdings Plc, Barclays Plc, Lloyds Banking Group Plc, and Royal Bank of Scotland Group Plc passed the tests, the Financial Services Authority said.

The evaluations, which came two years after the U.S. subprime mortgage crisis roiled global financial markets, cover 65 percent of the EU banking industry.

Publication of stress-test results in the U.S. helped lift the Standard & Poor’s Financials Index 36 percent from the start of May through the end of last year.

To contact the reporters on this story: Jann Bettinga in Frankfurt at jbettinga@bloomberg.net; Charles Penty in Madrid at cpenty@bloomberg.net.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-07-23/seven-of-91-eu-banks-fail-stress-test-face-4-5-billion-capital-shortfall.html

MorningSong

23rd July 2010, 20:58

I just found this, too...puts a little twist in the validity of the Stress Test...

Seven banks fail EU stress tests

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/BUSINESS/07/23/europe.bank.stress.test.ft/index.html#fbid=8a_z1moym_s

(FT) -- Only seven of 91 European banks failed a long-awaited stress test, regulators announced last night, a result that risks undermining the credibility of an exercise designed to restore the market's confidence in the region's banking sector.

Five of the seven were cajas, Spanish savings banks, sparking nervousness that the pan-European exercise that Spain had called for might backfire.

The Bank of Spain was last night discussing what kind of contingent liquidity measures could be put in place to reassure caja customers and counter any threat of a run on these banks.

Q&A: EU stress test explained

The Committee of European Banking Supervisors said there was a capital shortfall of €3.5bn at the seven banks that failed to reach the pass mark of a 6 percent tier one capital ratio.

The test involved modelling macroeconomic and sovereign debt stresses over 2010 and 2011, applied to end-2009 capital levels.

Germany's Hypo Real Estate and Greece's ATEbank were the only non-Spanish institutions to fail.

Among the near-fails, which analysts say could come under pressure to raise capital soon, were Italy's Monte dei Paschi, on 6.2 per cent, and Germany's Postbank, on 6.6 per cent.

A handful of some of Europe's most-stretched banks announced a combined €1.3bn of capital raisings on Friday, just hours before regulators divulged the results of the test, although two of them -- National Bank of Greece and Slovenia's NLB -- both passed.

The third, Spain's Cívica, a caja that failed the test, secured €450m of convertible bond finance from JC Flowers, the US buy-out firm that has a record of investing in troubled banks.

That marked the first time a caja had sought outside capital, following a liberalisation of the law governing the public sector institutions.

Among the top-rated banks in the tests was Barclays, the UK bank whose baseline tier one ratio of 13 per cent at the end of last year rises under the stress scenario to 13.7 per cent by end-2011.

The two-month-long test exercise has been closely scrutinised by investors, with growing scepticism in the markets that the parameters of the stress scenarios were insufficiently tough.

Germany also upset the pan-European exercise at the last minute by say its banks would be disclosing the full details of sovereign debt holdings -- an adjunct to the stress tests that all banks had been expected to comply with -- only on a voluntary basis.

At least six German banks -- including Deutsche Bank, Postbank, HRE and DZ Bank -- did not publish sovereign holdings on Friday night.

"Arguably the failure here is not the banks concerned but the test itself," said Richard Cranfield, chairman of the global corporate group at Allen & Overy, the law firm.

"There is little evidence that the tests have been applied consistently and there is a distinct lack of credibility, making this a wasted opportunity.

"One assumes those banks that have failed will be rescued or recapitalised. However, the banks that have scraped through may have more of a challenge on their hands and they may be the ones the market focuses on," he said.

But European regulators hailed the results of the tests -- which they said were three times as tough as last year's US tests -- as proof of the strength of the industry.

"The US did its tests before all its banks had recapitalised," said Christian Noyer, governor of the Banque de France.

"European banks have now been through recapitalisations, restructurings, cleaning out of their portfolios. We're arriving after the battle. A few years ago it would have been different."

© The Financial Times Limited 2010

mgray

30th July 2010, 03:15

Here's something a wee bit more concrete. Despite EU banks "surviving" the stress test (One minute on treadmill at the lowest setting) EULIBOR is at its highest level in almost a year. This is the interest rate charged by banks to banks for overnight loans. So the EU banks do not believe in stress test or thy neighbor bank.

Etherios

31st July 2010, 08:47

Some weird news...

Why US Need Not Fear Sovereign Debt Crisis: Unlike Greece, It's Sovereign (http://english.pravda.ru/business/finance/114386-0/)

Swami

28th September 2010, 09:12

Czech president tells UN to stay out of economics

UNITED NATIONS, Sept 25 (Reuters) - Czech President Vaclav Klaus on Saturday criticized U.N. calls for increased "global governance" of the world's economy, saying the world body should leave that role to national governments.

The solution to dealing with the global economic crisis, Klaus told the U.N. General Assembly, did not lie in "creating new governmental and supranational agencies, or in aiming at global governance of the world economy."

"On the contrary, this is the time for international organizations, including the United Nations, to reduce their expenditures, make their administrations thinner, and leave the solutions to the governments of member states," he said.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKN259750420100925

bashi

29th September 2010, 23:30

More trouble:

Irish 10yr bonds currently trade 460bps over Bunds, their worst levels of the year, adding nearly 60bps to spreads in just the last week alone.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/227562-more-investors-betting-ireland-will-go-the-way-of-greece?source=feed

Lefty Dave

29th September 2010, 23:58

Greetings
If someone had a thousand dollars of 'silver certificates'...would the US treasury cash out at todays' spot price? How would these dollars be treated?
Blessings

bashi

13th November 2010, 19:17

It seems that trouble is brewing again:

"Irish yields have jumped sharply since October, accelerating the rise this week as investors dumped Irish paper on growing worries Dublin will be forced to seek a bailout."

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ireland-denies-bailout-rumor-eu-reassures-2010-11-12?siteid=rss&rss=1

and that might be the beginning of something very BIG:

It is so serious that EU's usually conservative Jean-Claude Trichet had to "pull a Bernanke" as he becomes the buyer of ONLY resort in the EU's bond market as failures in Irish and Portuguese bond auctions threaten to spread to much larger Spain:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-12/ecb-s-trichet-is-bond-buyer-of-only-resort-as-euro-s-debt-crisis-worsens.html

It seems that this has not stopped the viral financial fire:

Spanish Bonds at Risk as Contagion Gathers Force !

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-11-12/spanish-bonds-at-risk-as-contagion-gathers-force-euro-credit.html

So what should happen? The G20 meeting should have addressed this development in a decisive manner. They have not been able to get the message across in the past, will they this time?

The G20 is over and nothing happend.
Obama has been called on the carpet for a more private meeting with the US's two biggest creditors, Japan and China. Angela Merkel, who has been very critical of US policy, was not invited to attend.
But Merkel and Hu Jintao ganged up and prevented any binding declaration on restrictions for export oriented economies.

The result: No big story..., but that was needed to cool the market.
Trichet has only 60 Bln at his disposal, just a fraction of the more that 750 bln packet which was decided on earlier this year. That will never be enough to stem the tide if Portugal and Spain also have to be "bailed" out. For the rest of the money, Merkel will have a say...
and the fire spreads fast:

"Ireland Urged to Take Aid by European Officials"

"The premium that investors demand to hold Irish 10-year sovereign bonds over the benchmark German bonds was 564 basis points at 3:59 p.m. in London, down from a record 646 points yesterday."

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-11-13/ireland-urged-to-take-aid-by-european-officials.html

They are now begging to take the financial medicine in time, before it spreads.

How will it respond? Maybe it balances itself out for now, but everybody should be able to see what is coming....and it is coming fast.

zDAmPIq29ro

Swami

13th November 2010, 19:22

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiVFfOOm_GI

bashi

13th November 2010, 20:03

"[15]The G20 communique" :

"We view with concern, and a minor amount of schadenfreude, the situation in Ireland and urge the Irish government to move toward a quick resolution of its unresolvable financial mess. We note as a form of encouragement that Argentina is a member of the G20, so nothing is hopeless."

http://www.ctv.ca/generic/generated/static/business/article1797633.html

:p

MorningSong

13th November 2010, 20:28

Bashi, I read that CTV article too, but isn't it a satiric/comical joke? (I thought it was quite funny, either way....hehehe)

bashi

13th November 2010, 21:15

Bashi, I read that CTV article too, but isn't it a satiric/comical joke? (I thought it was quite funny, either way....hehehe)

yes, it's a cynic joke. thats why the :p is at the end.

The whole situation is a joke:
They are trying to cool the market by saying:"You can invest into bonds until 2013 with no risc or "haircut" for the investor. Whatever comes, the taxpayer will bear it...
( but still you have to pay premium insurances in case of default)
Two years ago, if this would be advocated by ANYONE, then that person would have been burried till kingdom comes.
But today it's necessary, just to buy some more time...

Etherios

14th November 2010, 08:10

is it to just buy more time ...?? I think what they are trying to do is steal as much as they can from EU citizens. Money and freedoms ... all they have time to steal they will...so they are dragging the sinking ship using our tax money and pushing us under the boat till they are sure we will go under with it.

I really feel that they dont just want to buy some time ... remember they want a CONTROLLED demolition of money. THEY want us to suffer...

bashi

14th November 2010, 11:04

Luke

14th November 2010, 11:20

Who is THEY?
Who is stealing from whom if the Irish Gov takes EU tax money for a loan which will most likely never be payed back?
But isn't that a point in the first place?
After all, how you make slaves?
Remember, there was the time when debtor could be put in prison. For me, only thing that changed is scale of such prison.
Show me a person without a debt? (personal OR taken in his name by his "servants")
When you count all this, there are some folks out there that , given rules we believe in, literally OWN us.

MariaDine

14th November 2010, 11:40

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/64454776/

......about the Dollar, news from 11 November 2010

http://www.carbonated.tv/news/Obama+Arrives+In+South

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/nov/12/g20-declaration-full-text

lightblue

14th November 2010, 11:48

.
luke:

When you count all this, there are some folks out there that , given rules we believe in, literally OWN us.

think it's best you spoke for yourself... i don't beleive the rules you are on about..:no: l

.

Swami

14th November 2010, 12:09

bashi

14th November 2010, 12:56

After all, how you make slaves?

Lure someone to buy something without having the means. Entice until he/she falls for it.

Remember, there was the time when debtor could be put in prison.

Don't you think that, if that would be implemented again, the dept level would shrink drastically?

Show me a person without a debt?

My parents are dept free; i dont have depts ...

When you count all this, there are some folks out there that , given rules we believe in, literally OWN us.

You are being owned because you allow yourself to go into the trap; because its soooo easy.
There are always two to Tango: One leads and the other follows.
"THEY" despise you for that lack of discipline and "THEY" feel you deserve to be in prison...

bashi

14th November 2010, 17:08

"RELIEF on the bond markets gave way to confusion and conspiracy theory last night"

"Unicredit analyst Luca Cazzulani said: "The statement at the G20 tries to convince people that only new debt will be affected by risk sharing after 2013.

"But in order to have new debt the country has to first repay all of the existing debt.

"You still have a problem because new debt still has to be issued at a high rate. I'm not convinced this is a final solution."

http://www.independent.ie/business/european/market-goes-from-relief-to-confusion-on-bailout-denial-2418396.html
.

Swami

14th November 2010, 19:48

The Nazi Roots of the ‘Brussels EU’

http://www.relay-of-life.org/images/nazi-roots_book_alpha.png

http://www.relay-of-life.org/nazi-roots/chapter.html

bashi

14th November 2010, 21:18

More info on Ireland's brutal bankruptcy reality:

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Irelands-brutal-bankruptcy-reality-pd20101109-AZRTF?OpenDocument

MorningSong

15th November 2010, 18:28

I hope this info isn't premature, but the Italian gov't has been risking to fail since this summer.... maybe it will soon... What noone is saying is why Fini et al don't go along with the party anymore...does it have to do with the new budget/finance laws???

And, just a ps anticipated... the minister who picked up the "girl" (Ruby) from the jail did not get legal papers signed to get her out of jail...just went and got her before the media could talk to her. Hot water there, too.

Berlusconi Ministers Quit to Force Government Collapse

November 15, 2010, 9:27 AM EST
More From Businessweek

* Fini’s Ministers Send Letter of Resignation to Berlusconi

* Berlusconi Hobbled as Fini Demands Resignation
* Berlusconi Ally Bossi Says Italy Can Avoid Crisis, Ansa Reports

By Lorenzo Totaro

(Updates with Berlusconi meets League, president calls talks with parliament speakers in fourth, eighth paragraphs.)

Nov. 15 (Bloomberg) -- Four top officials from Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi’s government, including a Cabinet member, resigned today in a move designed to bring down his administration and possibly trigger early elections.

Four members of the new Future and Liberty for Italy party formed by Chamber of Deputies Speaker Gianfranco Fini sent their letters of resignation to the premier, a spokesman for Deputy Industry Minister Adolfo Urso said. Urso was among those who stepped down.

Fini, who broke with Berlusconi in July, called for the premier’s resignation earlier this month after media reports that Berlusconi helped secure the release from police custody of a 17-year-old nightclub dancer. The rupture with Fini, who co- founded the premier’s People of Liberty party, comes as parliament prepares to vote on the government’s 2011 budget.

Berlusconi acknowledged the defection of Fini’s allies in a Nov. 13 statement and said he would call confidence votes in both houses of parliament after the budget is passed to see if he has sufficient support to govern. The government’s future will be at the center of a meeting today between the premier and his ally Umberto Bossi, leader of the Northern League.

Berlusconi’s Decision

“There are so many possibilities, so many hypotheses,” said Roberto Maroni, Interior Minister and a leading politician of the League. “The final decision is in the hands of the prime minister.”

Berlusconi, 74, may have enough backing in the upper house, the Senate, to survive a confidence vote. In the Chamber of Deputies, Fini has the votes to deny Berlusconi a majority and topple the government. Even if the government falls, early elections are not a certainty.

President Giorgio Napolitano would first consult the parties to see if another government might be formed with or without Berlusconi as its head, before calling for a vote. While Berlusconi’s popularity has declined to near-record lows since his 2008 re-election, polls indicate that he might win a vote without Fini and secure a majority in at least one house of parliament.

Napolitano will meet tomorrow with Fini and Senate Speaker Renato Schifani for an unscheduled update on the parliamentary agenda, the Chamber of Deputies said in a statement today.

Early Voting?

“The likelihood of new elections in the near future is now pretty high,” Natacha Valla, an economist at Goldman Sachs in Paris, wrote in a note to investors. “Yet, in a general move of wisdom, the entire political class agreed to postpone any formal step that would precipitate early elections until after the finance law has been passed, showing full awareness of the fact that an open political crisis before securing the 2011 budget would be utmost unwelcome in the context of heightened market anxiety regarding public finances in the euro zone.”

The yield premium investors demand to hold Italian 10-year bonds over similar-maturity German bonds rose to a euro-era record of 180.9 basis points on Nov. 11 as concern that Ireland and Portugal may follow Greece in having to seek a European Union-led bailout hurt bonds of other so-called peripheral countries. The spread fell less than 1 basis point today to 164.

Budget Passage

“We expect the budget law to be approved within four to six weeks,” Fabio Fois, an economist at Barclays Capital in London, said in an e-mailed note today. “Should the Senate approve the budget without amendments, we think a confidence vote could be triggered in mid-December.”

The confidence votes may coincide with a decision by Italy’s Constitutional Court set for Dec. 14 on the validity of a law passed by the government granting Berlusconi and other top officials immunity from prosecution while in office. Should the court rule against the premier, pending corruption trials against him could resume.

The biggest legal threat to Berlusconi comes from a Milan court that has already convicted his co-defendant in the case. The court is trying Berlusconi for allegedly paying $600,000 to U.K. lawyer David Mills to lie under oath on his behalf.

The criminal charges against Mills were thrown out in February because the statute of limitations had expired. Civil charges against Mills were upheld along with a 250,000-euro damage payment. Berlusconi denies any wrongdoing in the case and has said that judges are trying to destroy him politically.

‘Ruby’

The political crisis has accelerated after the revelations that Berlusconi contacted police in Milan after they arrested a woman known as “Ruby heart stealer” on suspicion of theft. Maroni, testifying on the incident in parliament last week, said that Berlusconi had called police to inquire about the girl, whom he referred to as a relative of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak. The woman, who turned 18 this month, is Moroccan and not related to the Egyptian leader.

Berlusconi admitted helping the girl, who had attended a party at his Milan villa months earlier. The premier said he sent his former dental hygienist, a one-time television showgirl and now a regional politician for his party, to take custody of the girl upon her release from jail.

--Editors: Jeffrey Donovan, Andrew Davis

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-11-15/berlusconi-ministers-quit-to-force-government-collapse.html

bashi

15th November 2010, 23:26

It looks like as if the storm is not developing:

"The Irish spread over German bunds was at 537 basis points today, down from 563 basis points on Nov. 12. Portugal’s spread was at 414 basis points, down from 423 basis points. "

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-15/juncker-says-no-bailout-for-ireland-is-imminent-as-it-hasn-t-requested-aid.html

witchy1

16th November 2010, 09:53

I get a daily email from some "left of centre" financial gurus. Heres what they said today re BB and the bonds. Also an explanation of how the bonds work for those interested in the markets. (Sorry in advance for the length.)

(Source : http://www.moneymorning.com.au/20101116/how-ben-tried-to-break-the-market.html#more-4144)

How Ben tried to break the Market

“I can’t believe it, he’s broken it!” said Slipstream Trader Murray Dawes to your editor last week.

“Who’s broken what?” we replied.

“Bernanke. He’s broken the market”, Murray responded with a look of disbelief on his face.

It takes a lot to drag Murray away from his charts. But for a veteran who’s been trading financial markets for twenty years, to suddenly see what he thought he’d never see… well, it has even taken him by surprise.

Exactly what was it that caused our reclusive trader to ark up suddenly? I’ll get to that very shortly, but before I do…

There’s an old saying on Wall Street that goes something like this:

“Don’t bet against the Fed because the Fed has more liquidity than you do.”

It’s a saying many investors have embraced over the last couple of years. Especially the big investment banks that have been making money hand over fist, front-running the Fed – buying bonds in anticipation of the Fed later buying those bonds on the market and pushing up the price.

Well, your little ole editor has some free advice for Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke… and it goes like this:

“Don’t bet against the market, because the market has more liquidity than the Fed.”

It’s a message Bernanke and his chums would do well to remember.

They shouldn’t forget that for every dollar the Fed creates with its quantitative easing (money printing) programme, the market – thanks to leverage – can create ten, twenty or even one-hundred times that amount.

It can use that leverage to either back the Fed – as it has done for the last couple of years, or it can use that leverage to oppose the Fed… as it seems to be doing now.

Anyway, let me show you in chart form what it is that has had the editorial office here on Fitzroy Street in a buzz:

Interest rates climb

http://www.moneymorning.com.au/images/mm20101116a.jpg

Source: Yahoo! Finance

The chart shows you the yield on US 10-Year Treasury Note over the past six months.

As you can see, during that time the yield has slumped from around 3.5% in May to less than 2.4% in early October.

Today, only a month after hitting that low, the yield has soared to 2.95% - higher than the chart actually shows, but where I’ve indicated with the red dot. In fact, the yield has increased by nearly 0.5% in just the last week or so.

While that may not seem like a big move, in interest rate markets it is. Certainly over such a short period of time.

But importantly, remember the purpose of the Fed’s USD$600 billion bond-buying spree.

The idea was that the Fed needed to keep interest rates low for two reasons. First, so that businesses would be more inclined to borrow and invest in their businesses and therefore invest in the economy.

And second, lower interest rates would force investors to take more risks. If you’re a long term investor you’re not going to get much joy from parking your cash in a US government bond for ten years, just to get a 2.4% income.

Bernanke confirmed this was the intention in an op-ed he wrote for the Washington Post: (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/03/AR2010110307372.html)

“The FOMC intends to buy an additional $600 billion of longer-term Treasury securities by mid-2011 and will continue to reinvest repayments of principal on its holdings of securities, as it has been doing since August.

“This approach eased financial conditions in the past and, so far, looks to be effective again. Stock prices rose and long-term interest rates fell when investors began to anticipate the most recent action. Easier financial conditions will promote economic growth. For example, lower mortgage rates will make housing more affordable and allow more homeowners to refinance. Lower corporate bond rates will encourage investment. And higher stock prices will boost consumer wealth and help increase confidence, which can also spur spending.”

Then there was the punchline:

“Increased spending will lead to higher incomes and profits that, in a virtuous circle, will further support economic expansion.”

A “virtuous circle” eh? The next thing we’ll hear from him is that he’s doing “God’s work”!

Bernanke is often claimed to have studied the Great Depression. If he did, then he can be no better than an F-grade student.

Let’s see the impact of artificially low interest rates.

The result is something we’ve written about before, investors are forcibly shifted along the risk curve. If you’re struggling to understand what I mean, let me pictorialize it for you.

This is what your editor scrubbed together using the high-tech Microsoft Paint software package:

http://www.moneymorning.com.au/images/mm20101116b.jpg

Source: Money Morning

If you can imagine that before the Fed fiddled around with the first round of money printing in 2008/2009, the X% return was giving investor A a 5% yield and the Y% was giving investor B an 8% yield.

However, you can also see that the 8% yield doesn’t come for free compared to the 5% yield. To get 8% investor B needs to take a greater risk. That risk could involve investing in shares rather than government bonds.

But with the Fed in the market buying up all the supposedly low risk assets – government bonds – which has driven up the price while at the same time driving down the yield (remember that the yield moves in the opposite direction to the price), investors are now forced to take more risks.

So that now the X% return is only offering, say, a 3% yield. If investor A wants to maintain the same income stream they’ll now have to buy the investment that’s yielding 5%. Only that’s now at Y%, which is a higher risk investment.

And because investor B wants an 8% return not 5%, they’ll have to shift even further along the risk curve to take a bigger risk too.

You’re seeing in action the impact of interest rate manipulation. Interest rates are supposed to provide investors and business people and consumers with an indication of how risky an investment or a purchase is.

But when you’ve got the Federal Reserve and other central banks manipulating the interest rate it creates false signals in the market.

Investments and business decisions are made that otherwise wouldn’t be made.

Let me give you another example. The Daily Reckoning weekend editor, and our resident German, Nick Hubble sent us this analogy which he’d heard from Austrian School economist, Roger Garrison:

“In a soviet economy, Ivan’s job is to tell the central planners how much resources they have to build houses. To please his superiors, he often overestimates. That causes too many houses to begin being constructed. By the time everyone realises that resources aren’t gonna make it, they have gone so far that some of the resources aren’t recoverable. So they end up with fewer houses than they could have had if Ivan hadn’t lied.”

That’s what has happened in economies globally, not just in the US.

But now the market is starting to turn against Bernanke. If the goal of the Fed is to keep interest rates low, how will it respond to the sudden and rapid increase in interest rates?

Maybe it will print even more money. Remember that no sooner had the Fed announced the QE2 policy than investors were talking up the idea of QE3 or even QE4…

Interest rates have been pushed low due to speculation on the Fed’s actions. No investor in their right mind would lock their money away for 10 years just to get a 2.4% return.

The only reason investors were buying US government bonds was because they knew the Fed would buy them from them. Some investors perhaps expected too much, and that’s why the yield has increased.

The problem for the Fed now is how it plans on manipulating the interest rate lower again.

Billions of dollars was invested in US Treasuries purely so they could front-run the Fed. But now, with the yield climbing back to 3%, will investors still be attracted enough by the potential capital gain?

Maybe Bernanke is happy with the 10-year note at 3%. But if he is then that cuts out the majority of punters who were buying bonds over the past six months.

Punters were only buying in on the expectation the price would be pushed higher – greater fool theory. If those same investors get the idea that Bernanke is happy with a 3% yield then what’s the incentive for these punters to keep buying?

They won’t, and that’ll push rates higher still.

And don’t forget that most of these positions are leveraged too. Even retail investors in the US can get 10:1 leverage on bonds, so imagine the size of the leverage taken out by the institutional investors.

Therefore, the natural outcome for interest rates is that the market will try to push them higher in defiance of the Fed. Now that the big speculative money is clearly leaving the market after making a killing, it’s being replaced by the longer term investor.

But the longer term investor will be more interested in yield than capital growth. In order for them to buy into bonds they’ll want to see yields rise and not only that, be confident that the yield isn’t going to rise much further.

That means they’ll be in no rush to buy in just yet.

In a nutshell the demand for US government bonds by the private sector is likely to be much less in the coming months as bond funds hold on to their higher yielding corporate debt or stocks.

That can only mean one of two things. Either the Fed will allow interest rates to drift higher as the market clearly wants it to, or more likely, the Fed will have to place an even bigger bet against the market and unleash a third, fourth and even fifth round of quantitative easing.

If low interests rates are the goal then that’s the only option.

On reflection it seems as though it’s not Ben Bernanke who has broken the market, but rather the market that’s about to break Ben Bernanke.

bashi

16th November 2010, 13:11

and here we go again:

Contagion fears loom over EU meeting

48 HOURS TO SAVE THE EURO

"The interest rate, or yield, on Irish bonds inched up again Tuesday, suggesting greater worries among traders even though Dublin repeatedly rejected reports that it would need to tap the eurozone's euro750 billion ($1 trillion) financial backstop. In early afternoon trading, the yield on Ireland's 10-year bonds reached 8.14 percent, up from 7.98 percent at the open."

http://www.baynews9.com/article/news/ap/november/173521/Irish-crisis-contagion-fears-loom-over-EU-meeting?cid=rss

bashi

16th November 2010, 18:18

"The market thinks there is going to be some sort of deal and it's just a matter of time before it's announced," a trader said.

The Irish bond yield spread over 10-year Bunds was at 562 basis points, flat against levels seen around Monday's settlement. Similarly, the Portuguese spread was little changed at 434 bps.

http://www.bestgrowthstock.com/stock-market-news/2010/11/16/euro-govt-bunds-hit-by-u-s-debt-sell-off-ireland-in-focus/

bashi

17th November 2010, 13:32

"Financial markets appeared unimpressed by Dublin's decision to reject assistance, with the premium investors charge for holding Irish 10-year bonds rather than German Bunds rising to a near-record 595 basis points."

http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2010/11/17/ireland-work-euimf-mission-crisis-steps/

bashi

17th November 2010, 16:24

Trying to extinguish the fire...

ECB Buys Portuguese, Greek Government Bonds

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-17/ecb-buys-portuguese-greek-government-bonds-amid-irish-talks-traders-say.html

bashi

17th November 2010, 16:40

The average yield of Portugese bonds at an auction of 12-month bills spiked to 4.813 per cent, up 155 basis points in the past two weeks

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/UPDATE-2-Portugal-short-term-debt-costs-soar-joble-BAKHE?opendocument&src=rss

mgray

18th November 2010, 00:30

Since Ireland is going the route of Iceland rather than Greece it could be a bumpy ride.
Put new debt on banks not the people.

Luke

18th November 2010, 07:30

Since Ireland is going the route of Iceland rather than Greece it could be a bumpy ride.
Put new debt on banks not the people.
Agreed.
Till "casino" would be treated the same as the part where real folks produce real things, things would go south.
Punks in power do not even mention that. for them stock prices==economy. @#@$%%#$%!
Still Ireland and Portugal are small fry, EU zone can accommodate that (though it will mean major cooldown)
Spain or Italy- that's quite another matter. So watch Spain. If this domino falls, the extend&pretend is over.

bashi

18th November 2010, 08:18

"In midmorning (Wednesday) trade, yields on Irish 10-year bonds rose to 8.28 percent, equivalent Greek bonds to 11.66 percent. But Portugal, Spain and Italy all saw the interest rates on their 10-year debt securities decline to 6.75 percent, 4.60 percent and 4.20 percent respectively. The rate on 10-year German bunds, the benchmark of safety in the eurozone, dipped further to 2.61 percent."

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700082781/European-officials-to-lift-lid-on-Irish-problem.html?pg=2

Connecting with Sauce

18th November 2010, 18:07

I wouldn't touch bonds of any type until high double digit inflation hits... at this point very long term investment bonds of 20-30 years would be a sound choice.

A 20% long term bond will be worth 4x the amount when the interest rate for bonds is back down to 5 %... likewise when interest rates are 20%, the current 5% long term bonds being sold now will be worth a 1/4 if they are sold before term... avoid bonds for now!

There is a method in this madness to multiply wealth...

"The real world of money" on oneradionetwork discusses this every week.

Of course Andy Gause doesn't have any 2012 globe tipping senerio's being considered in his plan...

bashi

18th November 2010, 18:50

Its cooling down a bit...

Irish bonds rose today, pushing the yield on the country’s 10-year debt down 5 basis points to 8.28 percent as of 2:55 p.m. in Dublin. The premium investors charge to hold the bonds over benchmark German bunds fell to 542 basis points from 554 basis points yesterday. It touched a record 652 points on Nov. 11.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-11-18/ireland-turns-to-eu-as-trichet-says-ecb-aid-limited.html

Ahkenaten

18th November 2010, 18:55

one person's debt = another person's wealth

bashi

18th November 2010, 23:35

Ireland's Reckoning:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/10_48/b4205082055642.htm

bashi

19th November 2010, 08:49

They brought in all their heavy guys to Ireland in order to quench the fire.
This is the result:

"Irish 10-year bond yields fell three basis points to 8.28 percent as of 7:40 a.m. in London. The 5 percent security due October 2020 rose 0.165, or 1.65 euros per 1,000-euro face amount, to 78.405. German 10-year bond yields also fell three basis points, to 2.68 percent.
The difference in yield, or spread, between Irish and German bonds widened one basis point to 542 basis points, according to Bloomberg generic data. "

I must say that i am very much UN-IMPRESSED.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-19/irish-bonds-rise-for-third-day-as-eu-imf-ecb-meet-in-dublin-bunds-gain.html

Ahkenaten

19th November 2010, 17:35

1.) Play on human greed, "loan" them money (create jots on a ledger sheet with a BIG "minus" indicating they OWE you that figure PLUS interest 2.) KITE the market 3.) Pull the plug on the kited market and voila! Guess who ends up with the most jots on their ledger sheets PLUS the collateral and interest? Truly diabolical and NOT a "free market" concept at all. Since when is a spherical geometric form "open" or "free"?! Particularly a diaphanous bubble.

Next Step.....reinstitution of debtor's prisons?

bashi

19th November 2010, 19:12

The market is also un-impressed:

The difference in yield, or spread, between Irish and German bonds widened three basis points to 544 basis points.

“The risk of a bank run in Ireland is still at the back of people’s minds and reminds investors that a bailout needs to happen soon”

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-11-19/irish-bonds-drop-as-allied-irish-says-it-lost-17-of-deposits.html

bashi

22nd November 2010, 15:25

The interest rate for the 10 year Irish bond fell in the morning to 8.045 % , down only 0.073 %:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/1122/breaking6.html

In the afternoon it has risen again to 8.31 %:
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-11-22/stocks-commodities-fall-on-debt-concern-as-irish-bonds-gain.html

For comparision:
Just in August the Irish Central Bank Governor called the "Irish borrowing costs 'ridiculous'" as the interest rate broke above 5.4 %.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0812/breaking17.html?via=rel

.

irishspirit

22nd November 2010, 16:24

The UK has offered a direct loan to the Irish Republic in addition to contributing to an international rescue, George Osborne has said.

Negotiations are continuing over terms but the chancellor told the BBC Ireland was a "friend in need" and it was in Britain's national interest to help.

Asked if the UK contribution would be about £7bn, he said "it's around that".

The Irish PM has confirmed they and the EU have agreed a financial rescue package.

The deal has led to the junior partner in the Irish Republic's governing coalition, the Green Party, to call for a general election in January to provide "political certainty" for the Irish people.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11807769

They are loike a swarm of bees trying to get into the honey pot. This is really really shocking turn of events for ireland

¤=[Post Update]=¤

A partner in the Irish government coalition has called for a General Election, less than 24 hours after Cabinet ministers agreed to ask for a multi-billion euro bailout.

While discussions continue over the emergency aid, to which Britain will contribute around £7bn, the Green Party says it wants an early national election in January.

Leader John Gormley said: "The past week has been a traumatic one for the Irish electorate. People feel misled and betrayed.

He called for the prime minister Brian Cowen and his Fianna Fail party to pass an emergency budget next month, then dissolve parliament early next year.

However, two Independent members of parliament have reportedly threatened not to back the planned budget, effectively taking away the government's majority.

And Ireland's main opposition party, Fine Gael, said Fianna Fail may need to call an immediate election.

Meanwhile, supporters of Sinn Fein gathered outside government buildings in Dublin, calling for Mr Cowen's resignation.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Business/Ireland-Bailout-EU-And-IMF-To-Thrash-Out-Details-Of-Multibillion-Euro-Rescue-Package/Article/201011415821427?lpos=Business_Carousel_Region_1&lid=ARTICLE_15821427_Ireland_Bailout%3A_EU_And_IMF_To_Thrash_Out_Details_Of_Multibillion_Euro_Rescue _Package

This will be excellent news for Ireland. Gerry Adams, leader of Sinn Fein has advised that he is to run in the next election. I truly believe that they could wipe the floor with the standard on this one.

bashi

22nd November 2010, 21:02

In order to close the coffin, the next move will be the downgrading of the credit-rating...

morguana

22nd November 2010, 21:06

In order to close the coffin, the next move will be the downgrading of the credit-rating...

sadly bashi i feel you may be right, although i sincearly hope they dont
m

bashi

22nd November 2010, 21:33

They are already shifting to the next target (which means the downgrading will come):

Is Portugal next?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/world/4375101/Is-Portugal-next

and from there the BIG SIEGE will start:

Spain too big to bail? (Yes!)
http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Is-Spain-too-big-to-bail-pd20101118-BB2AJ?opendocument&src=rss

.

Swami

23rd November 2010, 00:29

Somehow I've been waiting for this to come...

Real IRA says it will target UK bankers

The terror group stressed in a series of written answers to the Guardian's questions that future attacks would alternate between the "military, political and economic targets". It is the first time the Real IRA has engaged in such open anti-capitalist rhetoric or focused on the role of the banking system.

More here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/sep/14/real-ira-targets-banks-bankers
And here: http://dailybail.com/home/real-ira-threatens-to-blow-up-bankers-explosive.html
And here: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread632323/pg1

bashi

23rd November 2010, 10:27

Spain, Portugal Bonds Drop on Debt Concern; Bunds Rise on Korea Skirmish

Spanish 10-year bonds fell a sixth day, sending the yield six basis points higher to 4.81 percent as of 9:08 a.m. in London, the highest since June 17. The extra yield investors demand to hold the securities instead of German bunds widened nine basis points to 218 basis points.

Portugal’s 10-year yield rose nine basis points to 6.90 percent and Ireland’s yield increased three basis points to 8.34 percent.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-23/spain-portugal-bonds-drop-on-debt-concern-bunds-rise-on-korea-skirmish.html

.

bashi

23rd November 2010, 13:21

In a note to clients this morning Credit Suisse downplayed the severity of the crisis in Europe:

“We continue to believe that this is not a systemic crisis..."

"Spain looks sustainable until bond yields rise to 6.5% from 4.7% currently."

Here the development of Irish bonds:

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/4599/irishbond.png (http://img507.imageshack.us/i/irishbond.png/)

Bond yields in Portugal are already surging and credit markets are not only honing in on Portugal, but already looking past Portugal at Spain:

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/3741/chartnl.png (http://img3.imageshack.us/i/chartnl.png/)
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/5494/chart2u.png (http://img139.imageshack.us/i/chart2u.png/)

http://www.businessinsider.com/is-the-european-crisis-now-systemic-2010-11#ixzz166wVC847

bashi

23rd November 2010, 19:55

“The markets currently have virtually zero confidence that the bailout in Ireland will solve the European crisis...”

The yield on Ireland’s 10-year bond rose 35 basis points to 8.65 %. The spread on Spanish 10-year bonds over bunds rose 28 basis points to 236 basis points.

The .(spread). on Portuguese 10-year bonds today rose 28 basis points to 435 basis points.
IMF Deputy Managing Director John Lipsky stressed in an interview with Bloomberg Television that “facilities exist” for Portugal should they be needed, though the country has not asked for assistance.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-11-23/merkel-points-to-serious-bailout-risk-as-spanish-bonds-drop.html

bashi

24th November 2010, 09:08

Here it is:

"Ireland’s debt rating was lowered two steps by Standard & Poor’s, with a negative outlook..."

"S&P cut Ireland’s long-term rating to A from AA- and the short-term grade to A-1 from A-1+, the statement said. The reduction leaves its long-term grade five steps above Greece, which has the highest junk, or high-risk, grade."

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-11-24/ireland-rating-cut-two-steps-by-s-p-as-barbarians-gather.html

bashi

24th November 2010, 09:18

The Euro is under pressure:

Yesterdays chart:

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/151/201011231144151123eur00.jpg (http://img403.imageshack.us/i/201011231144151123eur00.jpg/)

Presently the € stands at 1.3302 against the $.

.

bashi

24th November 2010, 11:07

The market is in turmoil:

"The difference in yield, or spread, between the Irish securities and bunds widened 21 basis points to 607 basis points, according to Bloomberg generic data.

Credit-default swaps insuring Portuguese government debt climbed 13.5 basis points to 500.5 while those for Spain increased 9 basis points to 310, both all-time highs."

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-11-24/euro-spanish-bonds-drop-on-contagion-concern-stocks-fluctuate.html

bashi

24th November 2010, 23:42

For the first time a GERMAN bond auction FAILED !!!

"Germany initially planned to auction six billion euros of 10-year bonds, or Bunds, but only received offers of 5.67 billion, according to a statement released by the the central bank, the Bundesbank.

In the end 4.76 billion euros were sold at an average yield of 2.59 percent."

http://msn.finance.com.my/index.php/rss/4481087

bashi

25th November 2010, 07:38

The yield on Irish 10-year bonds rose by 0.45 percentage points to 8.86 per cent. This pushed the spread, or premium investors demand to hold Irish bonds over benchmark German bunds, up to 617.6 basis points.

The yield on 10-year Spanish bonds broke through the critical 5 per cent level on concern that it will struggle to finance its budget shortfall. The spread between Spanish government bonds and German sovereign debt touched a euro-era record of 249 basis points.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2010/1125/1224284098844.html

bashi

26th November 2010, 00:09

Euro firms against US dollar on Merkel comments.
Merkel praised eurozone countries for their efforts in bringing their deficits under control.

"I am more confident than in the spring that the eurozone will make it out of the current turbulence," she said.

"Other countries have now made huge efforts recently, meaning that for the euro, I would say that from today's point of view we look considerably better when it comes to our stability culture than we did a year ago, or before the crisis."

On the bond market the yield on Irish and Spanish debt widened, with the Irish rate rising to an all-time high of 9.080 percent from 8.864 percent on Wednesday, signalling that investors remained unconvinced that Dublin's bailout and hard-hitting austerity measures will bear fruit.

The yield on Spanish bonds broke through the 5.0 percent threshold for the first time since 2002, rising to 5.166 percent from 5.064 percent.

Pressure on Portuguese debt eased, with the yield dropping to 7.004 percent from 7.016 percent.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_world_business/view/1095639/1/.html

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bashi

26th November 2010, 08:06

The Irish Should Default On Their Debt, Not Become Slaves To Bankers : Peter Schiff

kgOovAcsLA8

bashi

26th November 2010, 20:33

Portuguese yields to fall slightly with the 10-year yield still around 7.2%

Ten-year Irish bond yields continue to rise and they went above 9.3%

Ten-year Spanish bond yields almost hit 5.3%

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/Bonds-round-ECB-buying-halts-digilook-3361966918.html?x=0

bashi

27th November 2010, 18:51

"THE BAILING out of Ireland was, among other things, designed to contain the euro zone financial crisis. It has failed to do that."
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/1127/1224284260744.html

"The yield on 10-year Spanish bonds went as high as 5.28 per cent on Friday, pushing the spread over benchmark German bonds to 264 basis points, the highest level since the euro was born 11 years ago."
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/spain-denies-need-for-bailout-as-debt-fears-spread/article1814802/?cmpid=rss1

This is why Spain is the BIG problem:

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/4938/eurozone1027925a.jpg (http://img254.imageshack.us/i/eurozone1027925a.jpg/)

The credit needed to bail out Spain will drag all of the Euro-zone into the mael-strom, including Germany.
Thats why Merkel has refused to double the size of the bailout-portfolio:
"I think nothing of these demands," he said, saying the current €750 billion in the fund was sufficient. (German Finance Minister Schäuble)
http://freeinternetpress.com/story.php?sid=27802

I think next week will be very interesting...

Swami

27th November 2010, 19:11

I think next week will be very interesting...

Do you dare to venture a prediction....?

avid

27th November 2010, 19:21

Excellent Nigel Farage has said sense again!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fyq7WRr_GPg

Time we all bailed out of the EU.... Damnation on the IMF and the bribery to pass the Lisbon Treaty. The pyramid bankster ponzi-scheme is what we are facing. The biggest fraud ever perpetrated on nation states is happening NOW - what are WE doing about it?????
The students are becoming violent - ensuring more police-state nonsense.
It's heartbreaking - is there not an honest politician anywhere -or are they ALL bought and paid for???

mgray

27th November 2010, 20:39

It's not PIG it's PIIGS. First Spain will crack the euro before end of Jan. Then Italy will send this whole failed socio-economic experiment down the drain.
This way we can get back to a divided Europe with its long history of war on its soil in time for the economic rebound.

Swami

27th November 2010, 21:08

It's not PIG it's PIIGS.

Thank you, I wasn't aware of that.........:yawn:

bashi

28th November 2010, 01:06

Do you dare to venture a prediction....?

No. Celente is better in that ...
But everybody can do the math and calculate the rates for the next 20 days, IF the trend continues.

bashi

29th November 2010, 02:34

...and here it comes:

Europe Sets Bailout Rules

"Both Jean-Claude Trichet, president of the European Central Bank, and Jean-Claude Juncker, the Luxembourg premier who heads the group of euro-zone countries, said that private-sector creditors would face restructuring on a "case-by-case" basis—and not automatically, as Germany had wished."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704700204575642270168946834.html?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTTopStories

The Euro will tank, while the yields will go sky-high.
Buckle up, it's going to be a rough ride!

bashi

29th November 2010, 09:03

sQOHTaK5IPQ

bashi

29th November 2010, 19:05

Irish Rescue Fails to Stem Turmoil; Spain Bonds Drop

"Irish 10-year bonds slid after an early advance, Spanish bonds slid by the most since the euro’s launch and European shares sank 1.4 percent. The euro slid against 15 of its 16 major counterparts and the cost of insuring the debt of Spain and Portugal against default soared to records."

"The yield on Spanish 10-year bonds rose 25 basis points to 5.46 percent, the highest since 2002. That pushed the premium over German bunds to 271 basis points, a euro-era record.

Credit-default swaps on Portugal jumped 37 basis points to 539

The euro slid 1.1 percent to $1.3101 against the dollar at 4:31 p.m. in London, reaching its lowest since Sept. 21"

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-11-29/irish-rescue-fails-to-stem-turmoil-spain-bonds-drop.html

lightblue

29th November 2010, 19:53

.
so what is likely to happen to british pound? it's not mentioned anywhere - it must be worth something... l

.

bashi

30th November 2010, 17:23

.
so what is likely to happen to british pound? it's not mentioned anywhere - it must be worth something... l

.

it's not worth mentioning... ;)

no, i am not an expert, but i can't imagine a highly indebted England floating, while the rest of Europe "sinks".

bashi

30th November 2010, 17:53

There is clearly a plan emerging here:

First you allow banks to loan money recklessly at very low interest rates, which makes them careless. Then you force the governments to bail-out the banks on "too big to fail" fears. Finally you talk up a crisis which pressurizes the Gov to take a "rescue-pill" at very high interest-rates.
The 5.8% interest on the Irish bailout is the best example:

“Does anyone truly believe that Ireland can afford to repay €85-billion at an interest rate close to 6 per cent?”

“The truth is that the euro zone gave Ireland the wrong interest rate during the boom, too low. Post-crash, the euro zone is imposing on Ireland too high an interest rate to allow recovery.”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/economy-lab/carl-mortished/investors-flight-to-safety-may-seal-euros-fate/article1816956/?cmpid=rss1

See also here:

“European Central Bank officials tried to force Ireland to seek a bailout earlier this month and European officials are now trying to do the same to Portugal, Irish Justice Minister Dermot Ahern said.”

EU officials “were leaking in the papers that Sunday, quite incredible pressure on this country,” Ahern said today, adding that he won’t stand in the next general election for personal reasons.
(it seems he has realized the game-plan and is not willing to participate in it)

“The interest rate of 5.8 percent is far too high and verges on the unaffordable.”
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-11-30/ecb-tried-to-force-ireland-into-bailout-minister-says.html

It’s a typical CRISIS, REACTION and SOLUTION scenario unfolding, with the obvious intend to throw the countries under a yoke of dept for generations to come…

.

bashi

30th November 2010, 19:40

.
so what is likely to happen to british pound? it's not mentioned anywhere - it must be worth something... l.

Do you see the correlation between the pond and euro? the timescale is 3 months for the euro and about 1 month for the pound

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/8444/euro3months.jpg (http://img202.imageshack.us/i/euro3months.jpg/)

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/3410/pound10days.jpg (http://img262.imageshack.us/i/pound10days.jpg/)

BTW, the Euro is now trading below 1.300

.

Swami

30th November 2010, 21:06

Seems Belgium is hooking in on increasing interest rates...
Did not find a linky yet.....

mgray

30th November 2010, 21:28

Shocked Portugal downgraded by S&P to negative outlook. While EU officials request new "secret" stress tests for the banks.

bashi

30th November 2010, 23:02

"Euro zone debt crisis deepens

The yield -- the rate of return -- on 10-year Spanish bonds rose above 5.50 per cent from 5.46 per cent late on Monday and for fellow struggler Portugal to 7.072 per cent from 7 per cent.

The gap between Spanish and benchmark German borrowing rates at one stage widened to 3 percentage points, an all-time high."

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/business/markets/euro-zone-debt-crisis-deepens-20101201-18fnb.html

No secific numbers for belgium bonds, i think they are still under water, but rising slowly...

.

bashi

1st December 2010, 16:07

ECB bought Irish and Portuguese bonds today, according to Bloomberg.

Portugal sold EUR 500 mln of 12-month bills this morning with yields rising from the prior November 17 auction, as expected, but demand being strong at 2.5x (compared to 1.8x at the prior).

The Euro is trading above 1.300, due to "strong economic data" released today.

All in all a more calm day...

bashi

3rd December 2010, 16:36

A game to trick the market has succeeded:

Trichet buys Europe some time
http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Trichet-buys-Europe-some-time-pd20101203-BRRZH?opendocument&src=rss

For how long? For not very long, i think...

bashi

3rd December 2010, 21:22

It lasted for less than 24 hours:

Sovereign bond crisis keeps on growing:

"Yields on 10-year Spanish bonds have risen to nearly 5.5%, giving a record spread of nearly three percentage points over the equivalent German bond yield of 2.68%. German bonds are viewed as the eurozone's benchmark.

The difference, or spread, between the yield on Portuguese bonds versus German bonds is even higher.

Portuguese bond yields have climbed above 7% following comments from the country’s central bank that its banks face an “intolerable risk” unless the debt issue is sorted out.

Five-year CDS premiums for Spanish bonds have risen to 365 basis points (bp), while Portuguese CDS are up to 565bp".
http://www.londonstockexchange.com/news/focus-on/014-sovereign-bond-crisis-keeps-on-growing.htm

Folks, the Boss of the ECB tried to fool the market, and the market called the bluff not within months or weeks, but within half a day!!!
If you don't realize by now how desperate the situation is, then i am afraid you will not get it until its all over!

Sabrina

4th December 2010, 11:27

The German chancellor, Angela Merkel, has warned for the first time that her country could abandon the euro if she fails in her contested campaign to establish a new regime for the single currency, the Guardian has learned.

At an EU summit in Brussels at the end of October that was dominated by the euro crisis and wrangling over whether to bail out Ireland, Merkel became embroiled in a row with the Greek prime minister, George Papandreou, according to participants at the event's Thursday dinner.
more here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/03/angela-merkel-germany-abandon-euro

bashi

10th December 2010, 19:58

After a week of ups and downs, the already expected trend continued:

“We’ve got a lot of supply next week in Spain, and that’s making investors a little bit wary,”

because Spain is due to sell bonds maturing in 2020 and 2025 on Dec. 16.

"The yield on the Spanish 10-year bond rose 13 basis points to 5.44 percent at 5:25 p.m. in London, up from 5.08 percent on Dec. 3."

"That increased the yield premium investors demand for the bonds instead of benchmark German bunds to 244 basis points, the most in more than a week. "

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-10/spanish-bonds-fall-for-a-fifth-straight-day-amid-auction-bank-speculation.html
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bashi

16th December 2010, 09:49

The siege continues:

Spain's Debt May Be Downgraded
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/15/moodys-spains-debt_n_796924.html

Eurozone debt crisis spreads to Belgium:

"The yield spread on Belgian 10-year bonds has ballooned to 102 basis points over German Bunds"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/8202422/Eurozone-debt-crisis-spreads-to-Belgium-on-rising-political-risk.html

"On Dec. 15, 2010, Standard & Poor’s Ratings Services revised its outlook on the Belgian Community of Flanders to negative from stable. The action mirrors our outlook revision on the Kingdom of Belgium (AA+/Negative/A-1+)."
http://investmentwatchblog.com/here-comes-sp-after-moodys-did-little-to-kill-the-euro/

.

bashi

18th December 2010, 09:47

Irish debt downgraded:

Ratings agency Moody’s gave a resounding thumbs-down on Friday to Europe’s efforts to resolve a rolling debt crisis, slashing Ireland’s credit rating by five notches

The rare steep downgrade came in the middle of a European Union summit intended to restore market confidence

“While a downgrade had been anticipated, the severity of the downgrade is surprising”

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international-business/Irish-debt-downgraded-as-EU-sets-rescue-fund/articleshow/7120912.cms

bashi

1st January 2011, 11:11

It's refreshing to listen to Nigel Farage:

Here one from 2009: These people are in the EU parliament....

0vBqyG6qYXE

On the bailouts:

jcDOslLJwp8

On the future:

jcDOslLJwp8

The trends in EU bonds:

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/790/europeanbonds.jpg (http://img20.imageshack.us/i/europeanbonds.jpg/)

bashi

11th March 2011, 20:52

Greece and Ireland has risen this week with 10-year bond yields at euro lifetime highs above 7.5 percent, a level Lisbon says is unsustainable.

Moody's slashed Greece's credit rating by three notches on Monday, citing an increased risk of default or restructuring, possibly before 2013.

Moody's Investors Service cut Spain's sovereign debt rating one notch to Aa2

source: http://www.euractiv.com/en/euro-finance/eurozone-debt-crisis-intensifies-eve-summit-news-503001

The yield on Portuguese five-year debt reached a euro-era record amid speculation...

The yield on the Portuguese five-year bond rose as much as 23 basis points to 8 percent...and was at 7.99 percent as of 5 p.m. in London

The 10-year yield was 22 basis points higher in the week at 7.60 percent

Greek 10-year yields rose six basis points to 12.81 percent and similar-maturity Irish yields jumped 14 basis points to 9.65 percent.

The 10-year yield on Spanish bonds fell eight basis points to 5.43 percent and similar-maturity Italian yields fell 11 basis points to 4.87 percent.

source: http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-03-11/portugal-5-year-yield-at-euro-era-record-on-bailout-speculation.html

Etherios

11th March 2011, 21:03

The people that tricked our countries into slavery now decide how much we pay for what ever and we think this is normal.