11/9/11 Rebooting the Internet after Emergency Broadcast

[Mandala]

When the emergency broadcast systems shuts down the internet for 3 minutes, will there be problems rebooting? Cliff High believes it will take at least 24 hours. What do you IT and computer people think? I don't know about trunk lines and all the technical stuff. This is not my expertise, so that's why I'm asking you guys. I believe this will take place at 1:00 pm central time on Nov. 9th.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQwBtM2ENxk

[GK76]

The ISP will take no time at all to recover... it just requires the infrastructure to be in place. The older infrastructure may have issues as I doubt it was ever intended to be switched off, or if it was... never all at once and may require a lot of calibration. I can't imagine it would take 24hours though, even to cycle the older infrastructure... the problem is will it stay up?

PS come to think of it... do they even need to switch anything off? Surely it will just require alteration of the switch network.

[Operator]

Cliff High believes it will take at least 24 hours. What do you IT and computer people think? I don't know about trunk lines and all the technical stuff. This is not my expertise, so that's why I'm asking you guys. I believe this will take place at 1:00 pm central time on Nov. 9th.


Well, internet was designed by DARPA and should be able to take hits and restore itself (that was the original idea at least).

[Carmody]

I can't see there being any reboot/delay period at all. I'm not sure I'll even notice. Cisco builds good hardware. How good, is it? We're going to find out...

[Kindred]

I'll offer this link to something I posted earlier today. I think it is another part of the larger puzzle, and perhaps there are others that can bring more pieces into view... http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?33909-Army-MP-detained-Nov.-9th-connection

[mosquito]

This has been puzzling me.
But if my understanding is correct, they aren't shutting down the internet, they can't, it doesn't belong to them.

From what I've read, they're planning to shutdown all communications systems. Quite how they're going to do this, I don't know. It would mean that all public and private networks in the USA are now under some sort of central control, which is quite hard to imagine.

As for there being problems, they're almost guaranteed ! Anyone who's ever worked in large scale IT departments will be able to tell you that. Although on paper, no problems are foreseen, there is invariably something lurking somewhere which won't react in the way that someone thinks. At a guess, I'd say the problems are more likely to be local rather than country-wide.

I'm also curious to see how this affects other countries.

[Zepheriah]

You can't turn the internet off worldwide, its not possible without destroying the entire telecoms infrastructure. You can turn it off nationally, but its still on elsewhere.

Therefore, the time it takes to come back on will be nil. The Emergency Broadcast sytem is overlayed on top of the web, you are automatically re-directed to it instead of the website you're trying to view by the ISP's, on order from the government, so its not actually being turned off.

[Mike Gorman]

No such thing as shutting down the internet, it is a complex inter-connected network (yes) of international
communications, cables, servers and sub-nets-I also cannot see why the Internet should be affected at all.
I will watch with interest from across the other side of the world on the day.
Cheers

[Tony]

Think outside the box.

[Ian Gordon]

My considerations are really focused on what can they add to the system in three minutes or in the "reboot" monitoring software for example......somebody must have seen an opourtunity but have the PTB acted upon it !!

[Zepheriah]

You can't "reboot" the internet. It is not a peice of software sat on a server in a central location.

The internet is merely the collective term for the worlds largest network. You can't trun it off/reboot it.

[Lifebringer]

This rebooting is the same thing they used during Y2K to slip the spy on Americans program online. They can't get everyone to turn the system off at teh same time, so they will do it themselves and reboot transmission programs in to spy on political descenters of the way the government is being run. Sorta like a Worldwide microchip collecting information on everyone and everything. They can't just trick us into allowing them to put their mark on us, they now want to tap every computer.

[Forevernyt]

I heard they were shortening the test down to 30 seconds.

[norman]

I absolutely believe they can shut down the internet. If they are already "filtering" every data package, they can "block" every data package.

[vibrations]

Maybe they need that time to introduce some protocols which otherwise would be easy to detect. Some kind of advanced control or whatever.

[ceetee9]

I have not been following all of this so excuse me if I'm confused here, but, according to FEMA, the EAS test on November 9, 2011 @ 2 PM EST will not affect the Internet, LANs or Mobile telephones--assuming, of course, you can believe what they say.

Here's the FEMA ESA Test link:
http://www.fema.gov/eastest/

From FEMA ESA Test FAQ page:
Will the test be on all communication devices?

The nationwide test will involve broadcast radio and television stations, cable television, satellite radio and television services and wireline video service providers across all states and the territories of Puerto Rico, the U.S. Virgin Islands and American Samoa.

The test will not involve other communication devices such as the Internet, LAN and mobile telephones. No other communications networks or devices will be impacted by the test, meaning that people will be able to continue use their cell phones, the internet and other communications channels during the test. There will be no disruption of those services.

[Mandala]

Their website does say 30 sec. and wireline participants. So I guess there should be no internet problems at all.

Nationwide EAS Test Frequently Asked Questions

The national-level EAS leverages the communications support of all participating analog and digital radio, television, cable, satellite, and wireline providers (also known as EAS Participants) through specialized EAS equipment. A single, live-code alert, called the Emergency Action Notification, (EAN) is sent simultaneously to Primary Entry Point (PEP) stations across the country. PEP stations are designated to relay national alerts to the public and other stations in their coverage area. Local Primary (LP-1) EAS Participants monitor the PEP stations and other sources for an EAS message. Other EAS Participating stations also monitor at least two sources (in most cases the PEP and LP-1 stations) to receive the EAS message, and broadcast the message to the public in their area.
What will people hear and see during the Test?

During the test, listeners will hear a message indicating that “This is a test.” Although the EAS Test may resemble the periodic, monthly EAS tests that most Americans are already familiar with, there will be some differences in what viewers will see and hear. The audio message will be the same for all EAS Participants; however, due to limitations in the EAS, the video test message scroll may not be the same or indicate that “This is a test.” This is due to the use of the live EAN code – the same code that would be used in an actual emergency. The text at the top of the television screen may indicate that an “Emergency Action Notification has been issued.” This notification is used to disseminate a national alert and in this case, the test. In addition, the background image that appears on video screens during an alert may indicate that “This is a test,” but in some instances there might not be an image at all.

How long will the Test last?

The test will last for approximately 30 seconds.

Why is the Test being conducted at this particular date and time?

The November 9 date is near the end of hurricane season and before the severe winter weather season. The 2 p.m. Eastern broadcast time will minimize disruption during rush hours, while ensuring that the test can occur during normal business hours across several time zones.

http://www.fema.gov/emergency/ipaws/eas_info.shtm

[Carmody]

It may allow them to address the choke points more effectively..when and if they decide to enact a control or stoppage of internet 1.0 and bring 2.0 'online'. If indeed that plan still has validity. I'm sure the attempt will come in some form...

Forcing compliance in a staged situation is one way to understand who is 'with them' and who is not, what hardware is workable regarding control and shutdown, vs who and what is not.

Like a sonar ping, they get the opportunity to get a map or 'image' of the issues.

Kinda a way of scouting out the territory, to build an effective map.

Since hardware/software and protocols change fast and often in this part of technology and associated 'world', this means if they plan to use that information, we are talking about a time sensitive situation. The older the information they garner is, the less useful it is. I'd say that it could be invalid, for the larger part, in about two years.

Paul (admin) would know better, as he was directly involved in the more fundamental (internet as compared to the hardware used in large servers) aspects of data flow and addressing/connection of systems in the recent past.

[Etherios]

You cant shutdown or reboot the internet. The web/internet is a theory / imagination ... its not something physical or even software, so it isnt possible to shut it down.

What they can do is cut off the IPS lines ... and your lines as a result. What that means is the people that are using those isp's will not have internet access till they let the isp use the lines again. That is what they mean by rebooting/shutting down the internet. Almost all private users (homes or companies) use IPS providers to operate ... so they can isolate all users from using the internet. Thus to us users they CAN stop us from using what is named internet.

Private LAN/WAN will not be effected unless they us ISP servers to work.

About how much time it will take to restart ... well it depends on the area you live and the ISP quality, some will be slower than others but i dont think it will take more than a few hours.


Something more about this is the DNS server problem. ALOT of the global DNS servers are inside USA, and this WILL effect everyone in the planet.

Simple explanation of what DNS do.
DNS servers keep the names of all users. The computers dont know/cant read letters. All sites are represented by ip numbers and there are many DNS servers that store those ip numbers and connect them to names. So when we type "http://projectavalon.net" our PC "talks" to our local DNS server (usually ISPs have DNS also) and translates "http://projectavalon.net" to the IP number it has. If the local DNS doesnt have this sites IP number in its database it "talks" to other DNS till it finds the proper ip undress and then directs our pc to the site.

SO cause USA has MANY global DNS servers ... shutting down the USA internet access might create a problem to the global internet system. its totally temporary and nothing will damage the web but to most that dont know can be really scary.

[Mad Hatter]

SO cause USA has MANY global DNS servers ... shutting down the USA internet access might create a problem to the global internet system. its totally temporary and nothing will damage the web but to most that dont know can be really scary.

DNS caching in most major ISPs worldwide will probably see no real disruption in countries outside the US at all... at most the average user might see a slight delay before the page requested pops up.

[Etherios]

SO cause USA has MANY global DNS servers ... shutting down the USA internet access might create a problem to the global internet system. its totally temporary and nothing will damage the web but to most that dont know can be really scary.

DNS caching in most major ISPs worldwide will probably see no real disruption in countries outside the US at all... at most the average user might see a slight delay before the page requested pops up.

Many countries are using USA routes to forwards internet requests. I am from Greece and 90% of the requests that are outside of Greece soil goes through satellite or NY servers. Yes we wont notice any failures but the hole web will see a big rise in site response ... wont even go to torrents etc...

Also to the people that use internet explorer they might have caching issues ... anyway yes we wont see site request failures BUT imagine how easy it will be to manipulate this.

We will know if something went wrong or they did something if the downtime is longer than a couple of hours ... if its more they did this on purpose and messed up something for sure

[ThePythonicCow]

Paul (admin) would know better, as he was directly involved in the more fundamental (internet as compared to the hardware used in large servers) aspects of data flow and addressing/connection of systems in the recent past.

Well - I've been spending the last hour listening to the full interview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT5mdvj75_g) of Clif High by Gregg Prescott of www.in5d.com from which the short Youtube clip in the first post of this thread was extracted.

Fortunately I was also preparing some veggies in the kitchen, so it wasn't a complete waste of time :).

The key to substantially throttling Internet traffic in smaller countries, such as Egypt earlier this year, is getting to the main providers. In the USA, this would be getting to the major Level 1 providers, which (from Russ Haynal's http://navigators.com/isp.html) are Verizon/UUNET, Sprint, AT&T, Level 3, Qwest, PSINet/Cogent Co, Verio, Global Crossing, AboveNet, and Cable & Wireless This list is in order of connectivity, largest first. The list is at least a month out of date, as Level 3 has just completed its purchase of and merger with Global Crossing.

If these large Level 1 providers more or less all quit routing internet packets, the Internet in the USA would be seriously busted for most ordinary users. Packets would be getting through with too much delay, and too many dropped, for most "nice web interfaces" to be usable.

I have never been anywhere close to the insides (equipment, network topology, individuals or organizations) of these providers (well, other than working for the PBX division of AT&T in the late 1970's.) The key network people I knew years ago would as soon show you their concealed carry as they would participate in such a network shutdown. However, I doubt people like that make it far in most of the above organizations.

Still, I expect (hope?) that it would be very difficult for The Bastards in Power to seriously shut these guys down, short of a major EMP event in North America shutting down the electrical grid. Rather I would expect that Internet threats are more local, in space and time. In other words, they might be able to substantially hinder a local area, say a city with riots, for a short time, say days, and/or specific services, say Twitter or Facebook.

My take on Clif High and his comments on Internet infrastructure is that he is a former low level nerd speaking a high level of pseudo-tech BS. I suspect I could spend a few pages dissecting and dismissing each phrase of this interview segment about the Internet, but I don't want to listen to it again, and I doubt anyone would want to read it.

My take, in short, is that Clif High's talk of shutting down the Internet in the short Youtube clip in the opening post of this thread is fear mongering, and not reliable.

But -- I could be wrong! Fortunately, you'll have trouble contacting me if I am :).

[anklebiter]

Once again, you guys/gals are freaking out over absolutely nothing. The test will not, repeat - will not involve the internet. There is no internet shutdown, no rebooting, nothing. Cable, Sat. TV, Radio, some phones, that's about it.

No internet shutdown will be experienced. Next Thread...

[Etherios]

clif high says other things.... i dont know how the networks in USA work but if the cellphones are connected with the net lines / satellites then they will effect the net ...

Anyway the freaking out is about what they can do during the blackout. Not to say what this weird EAS msg will be.

[ThePythonicCow]

clif high says other things.... i dont know how the networks in USA work but if the cellphones are connected with the net lines / satellites then they will effect the net ...
Clif High claimed some cell phone control links go over the Internet.

So an Internet outage would affect cell phone usage (not the other way around.)

If I heard right, Clif further claimed that because of cells depending on Internet, that therefore they would have to take down the Internet to be sure they stopped all cell phone calls. That sounds like a silly claim to me.

But ... no ... I did not hear him say that cell phones (or their network) affect the Internet (though I might have incorrectly heard something he said; his techno-babble was not leaving me in an open listening frame of mind.)