Love.. do I need it?

[afflicto]

First and foremost I'm strictly scientific - while I completely respect your views regardless of anything, please only post if you have scientific, legit information! :)

Hello everyone! I'm simply wondering... what is love?, do I need it?, can a "lack" of it cause problems? Perhaps depression? Or might it be a cultural thing? Just like "beauty"? As I highly doubt there is such a thing as "Beauty", because it serves no purpose, evolutionary speaking.

Thanks in advance! :)

[truthseekerdan]

If you are strictly scientific, you don't need it -- but then you'll be the slave of The Matrix.

9q1jHx29C70

Best to you

[Heyoka_11]

Yes afflicto, it is absolutely vital to your own wellbeing, and that of the entire biosphere in which you live.

In a PM to a member the other day, I described supressing the love which is present in every human heart to the act of holding your breath till you expire.

Please watch all of this video by Gregg Braden, who made the move from mainstream science to spirituality. If you consider yourself strictly scientific, you may actually enjoy this mans work, as he provides scientific evidence to back up his claims.

HvdfFW-yYGE

[misericordia]

Heyoka_11 Thank you very very much for posting this video and introducing me to Gregg Braden.

[Sierra]

Hi Affs! :hug:

Love you! Looooove you! <chasing Affs around the table to give him a kiss whether he believes in them or not ... :becky:>

Sierra

[Sidney]

I think you need it, but you can give it to yourself. It doesn't need to come from an outside source.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

You can never be without love. It permeates every aspect of existence. It is all around you. It IS you. We can feel a lack of love, but that is an issue of perception. You are loved. You can never not be.

[music]

I’m sorry, but beauty and love both serve an evolutionary purpose. Before I start, rest assured, I hold a science degree, so I could safely be called a “scientist”. OK, beauty first.

Female driven sexual selection

This is one of the most fascinating aspects of evolutionary biology. The female chooses a mate based on physical characteristics that indicate fitness, and this trait is selected for. In some animal groups, it is actually this type of selection which drives a large part of the evolution of the species. It falls into several categories. Repetitive Calls: the male calls long and loud, the female chooses the one with the clearest voice and most staying power. Display: the male dances for the female and/or mimics other species, sometimes a stage is constructed. It’s like us at a club – if you can shake it, you are more likely to get laid. Lustre of plumage/coat: this is pure beauty, the fineness of the male array is indicative of many areas of fitness, including, but not limited to: resistance to parasites and pathogens; ability to provide food; ability to absorb maximum nutrition from food (important in animals that engage in frequent and furious copulation); dominance over other males, etc.

Human selection and the subordination of instinct

Female driven sexual selection is important in humans, but our development of consciousness has allowed us to subvert instinct, and not only ignore it to favour other factors such as politics, but to switch selection primarily to the male until recently. Beauty for humans is a much more malleable thing. In past times, larger women were considered beautiful because the body was more likely to take a baby to term. Nowadays, many men choose thin women. This is for many reasons, but the principle two are the influence of society, where we have been hoodwinked into seeing only thin women as beautiful, and the illusion of control. Years of patriarchy have conditioned men to believe that they alone should hold the power, and there is the subconscious idea that lack of stature equated to weakness. As far as standard beauty goes, humans too select for traits that display fitness: clear complexion, bright eyes, lustrous hair, good teeth, etc.

Recognition of Love as a development of consciousness.

The human child takes so long to develop to the stage where it can reasonably be expected to fend for itself, that the mother is tied and dependent on the male for many years (in most early human society, not the welfare state). As the male has a stake in the survival of the child to ensure his genetic material remains extant, the male desires to be the provider for mate and offspring. Chemicals are released in humans during courtship and sex that predispose us to feeling good and knowing Love. We have developed multiple pleasure glands in both males and females to further enhance the bond, but there are many in the realm of science who believe that Love is not just a function of anatomy and physiology. I would hold, and many would agree, that Love is the pre-existing, background state of existence, and it was the coincident discovery of Love, and development of consciousness that allowed us to develop to the state we enjoy (insert wry smile) today.


The case for beauty having evolutionary signifigance is obviously much stronger, but you might like to consider that if you were mistaken about that, what about Love?

Love

[Ellisa]

I suppose it really boils down to the meaning of 'love'. Do you mean-- I must have a partner to be my 'soul-mate' and be the reason for my existence?--- then probably that is not necessary (though it could be nice). On the other hand do you mean that life itself fills you with happiness and love, that you constantly marvel that you are able to love and return love, that each day something happens to make you catch your breath and be thankful that you know what love is--- well then I think this is essential. From love comes contentment, happiness and pleasure. It would be difficult to keep going without love as love permeates everything we do.

That said, love does not come to you without effort. Sometimes it requires sacrifice, acknowledgement and even gratitude. Love can be individual or all-encompssing, it can be hugely enveloping or deeply personal. It requires seeking out and and nurturing and, though I suppose it is not essential, if you are loved and give love you will understand why it is necessary to have known what it is to love.

Do not be afraid of love. It is what makes us human---well, nice humans!

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Love defies evolution. Where is the evolutionary advantage in sacrificing yourself to save the life of another? Love causes us to do just that. Who wouldn't take a bullet for their loved ones or jump on a grenade to save their friends? If evolution dictated everything, then no one would ever do these things. And yet when we think of these things, we think that this is what makes us truly human. At least I do.

[enfoldedblue]

Love has consequences for health and well-being. Engaging in joyful activities
such as love may activate areas in the brain responsible for emotion, attention,
motivation and memory (i.e., limbic structures), and it may further serve to control
the autonomic nervous system, i.e., stress reduction. Th is specifi c CNS activity
pattern appears to exert protective eff ects, even on the brain itself. Moreover,
anxiolytic eff ects of pleasurable experiences may occur by promotion of an inhibitory
tone in specifi c areas of the brain. Th us, love and pleasure clearly are capable
of stimulating health, well-being and (re)productivity: Th is wonderful biological
instrument makes procreation and maintenance of organisms and their species a
deeply rewarding and pleasurable experience, thus ensuring survival, health, and
perpetuation.

http://www.nel.edu/pdf_/26_3/260305A13_15990734_Esch--Stefano_.pdf

As lovers around the world celebrate Valentine’s Day, here’s a look at some of the surprising health benefits of love.

*Better brain health. The give-and-take of marriage or cohabiting with a partner may help ward off mental decline. Living as a couple in midlife is linked to a lower risk for cognitive impairment (unusually poor memory and mental functioning) during old age, a Swedish study recently reported. Other research shows that regular social interaction, such as getting together with friends, belonging to a club, or doing volunteer work also helps maintain brain vitality.

*Fewer doctor visits. A Department of Health and Human Services review of studies on marriage and health reports that married people consult doctors less frequently, have shorter hospital stays, and are less likely to be admitted to a nursing home, resulting in lower healthcare costs. Other research shows that married people have higher resistance to colds and flu, even when exposed to the viruses that causes these conditions. Stress reduction could be the reason, says Dr. Lieberman. “Stress depresses the immune system, making you more susceptible to illness, so by lowering stress, marriage could be protective.”

*Greater longevity. Many studies show that people who marry live longer, but the reason is still under investigation. One possibility, says Dr. Lieberman, is that spouses tend to look out for each other and discourage unhealthy behavior, such as smoking or lack of exercise. Researchers report that marriage is linked to a lower rate of heavy drinking or drug abuse, especially in young adults.

*Healthy kids. A striking finding of the HHS review was emerging evidence that marriage may enhance the long-term well-being of the couple’s children. Growing up with married parents is linked to both better physical health during adulthood and greater longevity. Studies suggest that kids raised in a two-parent family have a higher level of education, on average, and lower risk for smoking and substance abuse—differences that may explain their better health.

http://www.healthymagination.com/blog/surprising-health-benefits-of-love/


I personally wouldn't want to live without it :)

LOVE ALLways, c

[music]

Love defies evolution. Where is the evolutionary advantage in sacrificing yourself to save the life of another? Love causes us to do just that. Who wouldn't take a bullet for their loved ones or jump on a grenade to save their friends? If evolution dictated everything, then no one would ever do these things. And yet when we think of these things, we think that this is what makes us truly human. At least I do.

There is a theory in evolutionary biology called "kin selection" where an individual sacrifices its own survival because their close kin, who share close genetics, survive. I personally don't buy it, have never seen research that has convinced me, and think it is a case perhaps of anthropomorphising.

[Zillah]

Here is some science (http://lunarsight.com/freq.htm) - the LOVE frequency is included in there a bunch of times, enjoy.

[58andfixed]

Desiring or wanting may be a more healthier response than "needing."

Needing has such a "cling ring" to it.

Clinging to anything is a very co-dependent perspective, and reflects little on self-empowerment.

- 58

[Tony]

Love is something....you give.

[ktlight]

This is what Krishnamurti has to say about love:

"K: No one can teach you how to love. If people could be taught how to love, the world problem would be very simple, would it not? If we could learn how to love from a book as we learn mathematics, this would be a marvelous world; there would be no hate, no exploitation, no wars, no division of rich and poor, and we would all be really friendly with each other. But love is not so easily come by. It is easy to hate, and hate brings people together after a fashion; it creates all kinds of fantasies, it brings about various types of co-operation, as in war. But love is much more difficult. You cannot learn how to love, but what you can do is to observe hate and put it gently aside. Don't battle against hate, don't say how terrible it is to hate people, but see hate for what it is and let it drop away; brush it aside, it is not important. What is important is not to let hate take root in your mind. Do you understand? Your mind is like rich soil, and if given sufficient time any problem that comes along takes root like a weed, and then you have the trouble of pulling it out; but if you do not give the problem sufficient time to take root, then it has no place to grow and it will wither away. If you encourage hate, give it time to take root, to grow, to mature, it becomes an enormous problem. But if each time hate arises you let it go by, then you will find that your mind becomes very sensitive without being sentimental; therefore it will know love.

The mind can pursue sensations, desires, but it cannot pursue love. Love must come to the mind. And, when once love is there, it has no division as sensuous and divine: it is love. That is the extraordinary thing about love: it is the only quality that brings a total comprehension of the whole of existence."

[christian]

I don't know, if you 'need' anything, but check out this site, it's mainly about the pictures. A Japanese scientist experimented with water crystals and particularly the effects, that words like 'love' or on the other side 'I want to kill you' and other influences have on water crystals. More than half of your body is water. Go figure.

http://www.unitedearth.com.au/watercrystals.html



A human being is a part of the whole called by us "the universe," a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separate from the rest - a kind of optical illusion of consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening the circle of understanding and compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.

[music]

I don't know, if you 'need' anything, but check out this site, it's mainly about the pictures. A Japanese scientist experimented with water crystals and particularly the effects, that words like 'love' or on the other side 'I want to kill you' and other influences have on water crystals. More than half of your body is water. Go figure.

http://www.unitedearth.com.au/watercrystals.html

Every human should see this, if only to realise the effect of our words

[Tarka the Duck]

Nagarjuna said of love:

"If there is love, there is hope that one may have real families, real brotherhood, real equanimity, real peace.
If the love within your mind is lost and you see other beings as enemies, then no matter how much knowledge or education or material comfort you have, only suffering and confusion will ensue."

The Dalai Lama said of love:

"'Compassion and love are not mere luxuries.
As the source both of inner and external peace,
they are fundamental to the continued survival of our species.'

Not terribly scientific, I know...sorry Afflicto!
(other than the simple idea that if you lack something so essential to human existence, there will be repercussions)

I suppose I just don't think very scientifically in matters such as love....

[ktlight]

Love is not something one can pursue. Therefore, no science can be attached to it.

[Tony]

Ok, you wanted a cold scientific approach to love....er... can't be done!

But there is this...

When finally awake,
realising of ones true nature,
which is pure consciousness.
Joy arises.

On seeing that others do not realise
their true nature, sadness arises.
This is unconditional love.

[David Trd1]

Everything derives from love,even the dark...for even that is created from a denial of love in the first place or an exploration of ''the alternative''energy.
True unconditional Love just is.

science may touch it but not really,darkness may claim to know it but not really.
we can all let it in anytime we want,no buts.

I agree withg KT light here to try to apply science to it is akin to asking a handbrake how many times it stopped a canoe.......

Peace and love

[Ineffable Hitchhiker]

Does love have an opposite?

[music]

Does love have an opposite?

To my mind no, because Love is the source of all from which all polarities are derived.

[greybeard]

Does love have an opposite?

Dont think so---- all is an illusion except unconditional love.

See here
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?860-Enlightenment-The-Ego-what-is-it-How-to-transcend-it.&p=348010&viewfull=1#post348010
Chris

[Tony]

There is love...and there is lack of love.

To say that every thing comes from love,
Is not actually true. Love comes from
The unconditional. Love is the outcome,
Of wisdom.

Most of the time we are in conditional,
Love. A love that relies on conditions.
Everything comes from conditional love.

[ktlight]

There is no opposite to love since love is just Is. The word is not the thing. Love is an energy that pervades our physicality which cannot be induced to do so but is known deeply when it enters.

[Heyoka_11]

Does love have an opposite?

Fear.....though perhaps it can be said that the two can co-exist, in certain circumstances.


11137

[Tony]

Ultimately Unconditional love is also an illusion,
it still implies that there is something here to love
Over there, to make me feel better.

Ultimately everything has to be given up.

[Ineffable Hitchhiker]

Does love have an opposite?

Fear.............

Meh.
Thesaurus (http://thesaurus.com/browse/fear) says :-

Fear antonyms : - bravery, courage, fearlessness, heroism, unconcern

[Tony]

Just being here is the result of lack of love.
Because we live in an idea of attraction
And repulsion = hope and fear.

We still live in an idea of love....!

[Kumonitori]

I'm not sure if this is scientific, but I remember a while back hearing about (I think from a book called, The Magical Child) the importance of a baby being cuddled or held very close to its mothers' heart so that there can be a kind of energy transfer of the heart chakras from the mother to the baby. This allows the baby to be comforted, energy balanced, and leads to the baby's healthy growth physically and spiritually. This is my assumption, but if these moments are missing from the child's early developing period, it will grow up always lacking that "love" aspect, or a genuine loving warmth, becoming an adult with a chip on it's shoulder (sorry if I'm mistaken).

http://www.kindredcommunity.com/articles/the-magical-child-an-excerpt/p/1115

[benevolentcrow]

I could never take a scientific approach to love (religion, different thread) I love! Pure and simple! I love a warm fire on a chilly morning. I love the colors in the fall. I love yogurt with walnuts. There are so many things to love.

If you find love with another person it can be pure heaven here on earth or pure hell. You have heard it before "Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all" You develop a tender heart from love. You have to give love to get love. I give as often as possible, in as many ways as possible. I love my husband, I love my children, I love my grandchildren... I could never be without love in my heart.

I love our Creator who has given all of this to LOVE!

Not to say that I don't HATE which is the opposite for me to love. I hate war, I hate violence, I hate mean people... I don't dwell on hate, I turn away from hate.

I choose to dwell on love!

[Someoneson1]

The Greeks knew of three definitions of love.

Agápe (ἀγάπη agápē[1]) means "love" (unconditional love) in modern day Greek, such as in the term s'agapo (Σ'αγαπώ), which means "I love you". In Ancient Greek, it often refers to a general affection or deeper sense of "true love" rather than the attraction suggested by "eros". Agape is used in the biblical passage known as the "love chapter", 1 Corinthians 13, and is described there and throughout the New Testament as sacrificial love. Agape is also used in ancient texts to denote feelings for a good meal, one's children, and the feelings for a spouse. It can be described as the feeling of being content or holding one in high regard. Agape was specifically designed and created to express the love of God. Before agape love there was no other word to express such great love.
Éros (ἔρως érōs[2]) is passionate love, with sensual desire and longing. The Modern Greek word "erotas" means "intimate love;" however, eros does not have to be sexual in nature. Eros can be interpreted as a love for someone whom you love more than the philia, love of friendship. It can also apply to dating relationships as well as marriage. Plato refined his own definition: Although eros is initially felt for a person, with contemplation it becomes an appreciation of the beauty within that person, or even becomes appreciation of beauty itself. Plato does not talk of physical attraction as a necessary part of love, hence the use of the word platonic to mean, "without physical attraction." In the Symposium, the most famous ancient work on the subject, Plato has the middle-aged Athenian philosopher, Socrates argue to aristocratic intellectuals and a young male acolyte in sexual pursuit of him, that eros helps the soul recall knowledge of beauty, and contributes to an understanding of spiritual truth, the ideal "Form" of youthful beauty that leads us humans to feel erotic desire -- thus suggesting that even that sensually-based love aspires to the non-corporeal, spiritual plane of existence; that is, finding its truth, just like finding any truth, leads to transcendence. Lovers and philosophers are all inspired to seek truth through the means of eros."
Philia (φιλία philía[3]) means friendship or affectionate love in modern Greek. It is a dispassionate virtuous love, a concept developed by Aristotle. It includes loyalty to friends, family, and community, and requires virtue, equality and familiarity. In ancient texts, philos denoted a general type of love, used for love between family, between friends, a desire or enjoyment of an activity, as well as between lovers.
Storge (στοργή storgē[4]) means "affection" in ancient and modern Greek. It is natural affection, like that felt by parents for offspring. Rarely used in ancient works, and then almost exclusively as a descriptor of relationships within the family. It is also known to express mere acceptance or putting up with situations, as in "loving"

[ktlight]

benevolentcrow, with respect, the love you describe is pleasure.

[markpierre]

First and foremost I'm strictly scientific - while I completely respect your views regardless of anything, please only post if you have scientific, legit information! :)

Hello everyone! I'm simply wondering... what is love?, do I need it?, can a "lack" of it cause problems? Perhaps depression? Or might it be a cultural thing? Just like "beauty"? As I highly doubt there is such a thing as "Beauty", because it serves no purpose, evolutionary speaking.

Thanks in advance! :)

That's a really really confronting question.

It really suggests that you don't have any idea about what love is, so you don't know how to put the question. Please don't take offense.

And beauty isn't what societies regard as beautiful, though that is an appropriate comparison. Beauty is an experience. Dogs think cat turds are beautiful. Beauty is way way deep beneath the surface. Beauty is a sense of knowing, gratitude, 'being enriched by' , not comparisons. And yes, dogs think cat turds are a delicacy. Truffles aren't especially pretty, nor are certain parts of the human anatomy. It's all very subjective isn't it?

And if you have a thing defined as depression and you believe you know about that; then if you can imagine the exact opposite of that to an unlimited degree, wouldn't that be the desirable thing? Wouldn't that make you happy, and wouldn't most random reasonable scientists at home sitting on the dunny or cooking dinner or something think to themselves "happiness, well that would be good!". Is psychology considered a science? Is it for counteracting depression? Well, it would be a pretty good tonic for depression, but so are certain drugs relatively effective. Honest, I don't mean to be patronizing, this is a really good thread and a good topic.

The confrontation you would have, would be to consider disengaging from science and 'proof' in the way that you know it, and allow something that you don't know about to occur. That would be your proof. But you have to suspend your intellectual criteria enough to do that, or something in your experience has to occur to whack you in the face with what it is. Then you'll know the answer. As long as you limit yourself by defining your own parameters, you can't get a real answer to your question.

Do you need love? It's what you are. It's not a need. It's the energy that causes a 'you'. You need to not disallow it. That's the only need you have. Lets not call it love. There are too many dumb ideas about what the word 'love' means, and none of them are it.

Do we need relationships to identify what love is? No, not many relationships are about love at all. Some are though. The ones that accept you without you having to prove anything.

I hope that made a little bit of sense. I'd really like you to get your real answer.

Cheers

[Someoneson1]

Agape or Devine love must be experienced to know. Scientifically studying sacred symbology will reveal the origins of the universe (or form) But without the experience it will mean nothing to our form or ego belief system. To feel the Devine energy of agape leaves you agape or in awe.

This state of awe opens the mind to not knowing, where true knowledge begins.

One of my favorite sayings is "thank god I'm an idiot" now am I able to learn.

[jimbojp]

I've just started looking into this sort of stuff. Very scientific I'd say and rather beautiful too, :yo:

SD-ZiqDvnKo

All the best.

[benevolentcrow]

benevolentcrow, with respect, the love you describe is pleasure.

Love is pleasure, no denying it. Love is Joy, love is happiness! Love is all good things in life! It can also be pain. Not to experience love would be a sad and lonely existence! It is instinctual! Comes from the heart and soul, our very being! There is no science to it, it just is! IMHO

[jimbojp]

benevolentcrow, with respect, the love you describe is pleasure.

Love is pleasure, no denying it. Love is Joy, love is happiness! Love is all good things in life! Not to experience love would be a sad and lonely existence! It is instinctual! Comes from the heart and soul, our very being! There is no science to it, it just is! IMHO

Isn't it possible to decribe the unfolding of a flower with mathematics, isn't that science?
:cool:

[Tarka the Duck]

benevolentcrow, with respect, the love you describe is pleasure.

Love is pleasure, no denying it. Love is Joy, love is happiness! Love is all good things in life! Not to experience love would be a sad and lonely existence! It is instinctual! Comes from the heart and soul, our very being! There is no science to it, it just is! IMHO

I understand what you are saying and feeling here BC...but isn't that love what is known as "conditional love"?
It is only there when the conditions are there - the grandchildren, the colours in the fall, the yogurt with walnuts - that the love is experienced.

Is the love still there when the conditions are not?
Is it the same type of love?

I remember reading somewhere: "Love is a necessity, not a luxury".
For many, the sources of love that you quoted would be considered to be luxuries.

I remember reading somewhere:

[Maria Stade]

LOVE ... is.

Love is something coming from with in !
It is energy a vibration in the feeld !
The human body is the sender and reciver of this energy.
But most of all the human body is this feeld.

It is a delution that we need a external love, that some one , something needs to give it to us.

We are that love and have always been that love.

When we can Be LOVE with out adding it on a external person then we have found our selves.

When we love our self then we love all.

Love dose not demand anything it just....... IS.

It is YOU !

No you do not need it in any external way, you are what you search for.

Be the love that you are !

[benevolentcrow]

benevolentcrow, with respect, the love you describe is pleasure.

Love is pleasure, no denying it. Love is Joy, love is happiness! Love is all good things in life! Not to experience love would be a sad and lonely existence! It is instinctual! Comes from the heart and soul, our very being! There is no science to it, it just is! IMHO

Isn't it possible to decribe the unfolding of a flower with mathematics, isn't that science?
:cool:


That is a valid point. I guess I do not live my life from a scientific approach. Although I do love science, it creates a certain excitement in me just thinking of the possibilities. I live my life by intuition! Love is basic, raw, real. Strip away all the superficial layers and you have it the unfolding flower!

[ktlight]

benevolentcrow, with respect, the love you describe is pleasure.

Love is pleasure, no denying it. Love is Joy, love is happiness! Love is all good things in life! It can also be pain. Not to experience love would be a sad and lonely existence! It is instinctual! Comes from the heart and soul, our very being! There is no science to it, it just is! IMHO

With respect, I feel that what you describe here is emotions. Love is not an emotion, although it is definitely felt and, when it is felt, you truly know it. It's an energy that smooths out the brain.

[benevolentcrow]

benevolentcrow, with respect, the love you describe is pleasure.

Love is pleasure, no denying it. Love is Joy, love is happiness! Love is all good things in life! Not to experience love would be a sad and lonely existence! It is instinctual! Comes from the heart and soul, our very being! There is no science to it, it just is! IMHO

I understand what you are saying and feeling here BC...but isn't that love what is known as "conditional love"?
It is only there when the conditions are there - the grandchildren, the colours in the fall, the yogurt with walnuts - that the love is experienced.

Is the love still there when the conditions are not?
Is it the same type of love?

I remember reading somewhere: "Love is a necessity, not a luxury".
For many, the sources of love that you quoted would be considered to be luxuries.

I remember reading somewhere:

Love is a necessity and a luxury. I am very fortunate to have love in my life. I would hope in a difference circumstance to still be able to still give love and in turn receive it. Please let me always look for love in every way!!! I love the dirt in my garden. The color of dirt, the smell the feel. Is dirt a luxury? If we can't find love in simplistic ways then what is the point of us being here. Love encompasses so many things, feelings... Love is what life is all about, this is what I believe!

[Maria Stade]

Yes if you do not love your self you get depressed !
The energy is fade, and it is a condition that can lead to death of the body !

If we look at people IN love.

The energy comes from with in and is projekted on the subject of the LOVE !

When the relation ends the person thinks that the energy did come from the other ... it did do that to, but the most energy did come from with in.

People that is in realtaions that is ending have found all the WRONGS in the other and they have shut down the energy for the other as they find all the wrongs that dont fit the description off the DREAM partner !

The dream partner is only with in and do not exist in the external world !

When people stop do illusions about others and starts to enjoy what the other is for real and who one self is for real THEN we can have a JOLLY TIME ;)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAqylcOXCAw

[Lettherebelight]

Hi Afflicto and everyone...:wave:

'At birth, there is nothing, but Love...

And at death, again, there is nothing, but Love.'

This was told to me in a lucid dream, very clearly, and in no uncertain terms. I'm still trying to work out what it means. :confused:
Does this make sense to anyone? If anyone has any ideas...I'd be interested to hear! Thanks in advance..

[Maria Stade]

Hi Afflicto and everyone...:wave:

'At birth, there is nothing, but Love...

And at death, again, there is nothing, but Love.'


This was told to me in a lucid dream, very clearly, and in no uncertain terms. I'm still trying to work out what it means. :confused:
Does this make sense to anyone? If anyone has any ideas...I'd be interested to hear! Thanks in advance..

Yes that is what you are in your orgin .... the jurny betwen is a time when you fool your self and the programming by others make you belive that you are something else !

[Arrowwind]

'At birth, there is nothing, but Love...

And at death, again, there is nothing, but Love.'

This was told to me in a lucid dream, very clearly, and in no uncertain terms. I'm still trying to work out what it means. :confused:
Does this make sense to anyone? If anyone has any ideas...I'd be interested to hear! Thanks in advance..

John Lennon Said it all in this one short statement

"and in the end the love you take is equal to the love you make"

or in other words
there is no love for you
but the love you self generate.
You can feel and perceive another's love but it is not yours
and be susceptible to the lower chakra energies
of survival and the fears it generate
for we cannot truly fulfill our destiny
without love.
In a relationship
the shining of love from one to another
It is only a gift of a taste.
If you do not generate your own love
you will always suffer feelings of lack and depletion.
Those who cannot generate their own
and perpetually seek fulfillment
are akin to leaches and vampires.
By touching another's heart
it is possible to light their flame
and start them on their way
to self generation of love.

[benevolentcrow]

benevolentcrow, with respect, the love you describe is pleasure.

Love is pleasure, no denying it. Love is Joy, love is happiness! Love is all good things in life! It can also be pain. Not to experience love would be a sad and lonely existence! It is instinctual! Comes from the heart and soul, our very being! There is no science to it, it just is! IMHO

With respect, I feel that what you describe here is emotions. Love is not an emotion, although it is definitely felt and, when it is felt, you truly know it. It's an energy that smooths out the brain.

Emotion is energy, action gets reaction.

I hope I have not been boasting and I rarely quote from the bible (I take the good and leave the rest).

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

[afflicto]

Ok, it seems some of you misinterpret what I really meant when I asked the question.
Let me try to rephrase it: Scientifically speaking, do the human species need intimate relationships with the opposite sex (although, sometimes the same sex) in order to survive?

Further, I do not believe anything can exist that cannot be measured by science. Although there might be things that exist that have not yet been, or can not yet be measured by science.
Science is a part of our world and it is not separate from anything else in our world - how then, could we possible have something that doesn't have a relationship with science at all? - It doesn't make sense.

To further, and possible better describe my question: Is both love and beauty just cultural and social things perpetuated by our current social structure? - Are we in fact being conditioned and literally programmed from the moment we are born - to pursue our opposite sex that is in line with all the women\guys on televisions, magazines, porn movies etc?

Or might it be (at it's core), something that is essential to the survival of the human race?

Put more simply: Can I get depressed because I do not engage in physical, intimate contact with other humans of my opposite sex?

[music]

Hi Afflicto and everyone...:wave:

'At birth, there is nothing, but Love...

And at death, again, there is nothing, but Love.'


This was told to me in a lucid dream, very clearly, and in no uncertain terms. I'm still trying to work out what it means. :confused:
Does this make sense to anyone? If anyone has any ideas...I'd be interested to hear! Thanks in advance..

This is in accord with various experiences I have had, and the understanding that Love is the source of all - the background state of our existence. We believe our reality is made of sub-atomic particles held together by forces of attraction/repulsion. In fact everything is held by the desire/dilemma of returning to Love.

[benevolentcrow]

Only you can answer those questions.

We need human contact, not necessarily sexual.

There has been scientific studies done on both children and geriatrics of Failure to thrive.

In infants factors that may lead to failure to thrive:
Emotional deprivation as a result of parental withdrawal, rejection, or hostility.

In the elderly: Those in nursing homes who have family visitors are much healthy and happier than those that don't have contact with others

We each have our own longings, wants and needs. Do whatever makes you happy!

People
People who need people
Are the luckiest people in the world.
They are children needing other children
And yet letting our grown up pride
Hide all the need inside
Acting more like children, than children.

Lovers are very special people
They're the luckiest people in the world
With one person, one very special person
A feeling deep in your soul
That said you were half and now you're whole
No more hunger and thirst
But first be a person who needs people
People who need people
Are the luckiest people
In the world

Songwriters: MERRILL, BOB / STYNE, JULE

[music]

Ok, it seems some of you misinterpret what I really meant when I asked the question.
Let me try to rephrase it: Scientifically speaking, do the human species need intimate relationships with the opposite sex (although, sometimes the same sex) in order to survive?

Further, I do not believe anything can exist that cannot be measured by science. Although there might be things that exist that have not yet been, or can not yet be measured by science.
Science is a part of our world and it is not separate from anything else in our world - how then, could we possible have something that doesn't have a relationship with science at all? - It doesn't make sense.

To further, and possible better describe my question: Is both love and beauty just cultural and social things perpetuated by our current social structure? - Are we in fact being conditioned and literally programmed from the moment we are born - to pursue our opposite sex that is in line with all the women\guys on televisions, magazines, porn movies etc?

Or might it be (at it's core), something that is essential to the survival of the human race?

Put more simply: Can I get depressed because I do not engage in physical, intimate contact with other humans of my opposite sex?

This may seem blunt, but I am late for work, so please take no offence at the staccato style, my words are come from Love

You have already had some answers to those questions from several sources in this thread. Are you looking for answers, or railing at the world?

Can you get depressed? I would say that unless this fundamental human need is channeled into spirituality, yes you can. Science just doesn't cut in that respect I'm afraid.

Look into the scientific concept of higher or multiple dimensions - your things that can not currently be measured by science are there.

Yes we are manipulated to desire things to disempower us, and make us consume. This works BECAUSE the need for Love is fundamental to the human condition. Think about this point carefully please.

Watching porn is no good for your energetic field, resist that.

I am happy to see that you included same-sex Love - Love has no compartments, it just is.

Love

[another bob]

Put more simply: Can I get depressed because I do not engage in physical, intimate contact with other humans of my opposite sex?

Greetings, Friend!

Do you need a mate? In any particular life, some do, some don't. It depends on your karmic status and contracts you agreed to prior to this incarnation. Moreover, love is not something you'll ever be able to figure out using your mind, so skip the "scientific" pretense -- it's a dead end, since love is not a measurable, quantifiable, or predictable object.

It is true that just about everything humans conceive of as "love" is a conditional and conditioned response (and hence only a shadowy glimmer of the reality of love, which again is not ascertainable by mind). Real love is the energy of Source which also is our own true identity prior to, during, and after this incarnation. In fact, our actual nature is unconditional love, since we are indivisible from Source. However, by entering into this virtual reality, we've temporarily obscured our true condition to occupy the human critter and enjoy the contrast, all for the purpose of gaining various experiences in this dreamy realm.

Because we are unconditional love, we (as sub-personalities of Source) don't know what it feels like to hate, crave, and fear, so the human vehicle and its milieu provide us with a role and stage to act out those impulses and see what they are all about. Some people say that we are here to learn about love, but that is not true. We already know completely what unconditional love feels like, but we've set that knowledge aside so that we can have this human experience.

Regardless, love is all that really matters. When by Grace it manifests in your life, you will know it intimately, and all your questions will be rendered obsolete -- not because you have found answers, but because they will be utterly outshone in the glory that is real love.

Blessings!

[jjjones]

an innate energy of creation and the creator, just is! enjoy! namaste, love and peace universally :)

[Ellisa]

OK Afflictp--- You asked wether love is necessary for fulfilment, sanity or whatever and will you become depressed if you do not have it. You then give sexual attraction as the meaning of love, with beauty the central attribute of such attraction, and further you define beauty as the physical beauty found in magazines and movies- possibly pornagraphic.

May I suggest you read some of the posts here about love. They describe the immeasurable beauty that is love. Believe me included in those descriptions is sexual attraction, fulfilled in the most loving way.

To discover love you need to forget that you think it may help ward off depression. It seems to me that with that motivator you will fail to find it. Forget the searching and immerse yourself in things that bring happiness, not only to you but also to others, Happiness is first cousin to love, and selfishness will eventually shrivel both.

Who knows, maybe you will be able to find a relationship with another person that includes loving them, but if you do not you can still find some of the completion that people are talking about in these amazing posts. You cannot depend on others for your state of mind (read John Lennon's poem this page. wonderful quote Arrowswind!). A lack of sexual fulfilment (which I think is what you mean by lack of 'love') will not cause depression of itself. It is how you deal with it that could upset you. It is possible to lead a happy loving life without it, but loving partnerships are at the heart of our humanity. Howevert it has to be said that many people are very unhappy in relationships, and are possibly depressed as well. There is no guarantee that anything can totally shield you from being depressed.

By the way there is an old saying, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." Put the magazines away and look for beauty in the real world. It is there and so is love.

[markpierre]

Ok, it seems some of you misinterpret what I really meant when I asked the question.
Let me try to rephrase it: Scientifically speaking, do the human species need intimate relationships with the opposite sex (although, sometimes the same sex) in order to survive?

Further, I do not believe anything can exist that cannot be measured by science. Although there might be things that exist that have not yet been, or can not yet be measured by science.
Science is a part of our world and it is not separate from anything else in our world - how then, could we possible have something that doesn't have a relationship with science at all? - It doesn't make sense.

To further, and possible better describe my question: Is both love and beauty just cultural and social things perpetuated by our current social structure? - Are we in fact being conditioned and literally programmed from the moment we are born - to pursue our opposite sex that is in line with all the women\guys on televisions, magazines, porn movies etc?

Or might it be (at it's core), something that is essential to the survival of the human race?

Put more simply: Can I get depressed because I do not engage in physical, intimate contact with other humans of my opposite sex?

Of course you can get depressed, and you can get depressed if you do engage in intimate relationships. That's the answer to your question as you've clarified it, but it's too obvious to be a real question. Relationships are a really good way to discover your own bottom. They will never ever truly represent the truth of either you or a partner, they will only expose the limitations. But that is a useful thing. They can also exist to support you in your own discoveries, but as often they distract you. It depends on what you ask of them.

It's not to invalidate relationship. But real love is unconditional like others have said, and the idea of relationship has conditions. Intimacy is a condition that's either met or it's not. But it's a condition. A limit. But a specific place to express your affection and discover the depth of your own intimacy with yourself can be a very valid tool. You learn more of your real Self in the action of giving to something or someone. It's an experience of conducting love, however subtle or overt. That's more of the nature of what you are.

Would you throw yourself on a live grenade to save someone else? It's a good question to entertain. That's what real love is like. Everything else we call love is an attempt to mimic that. To satisfy the discomfort that's caused by that missing experience of the depth of ourselves. It's an expression outward of including with ourselves, everything we typically deny or reject as separate. I don't expect you to understand that, there is no measurement for that except in your own understanding of yourself as you slowly or rapidly evolve.

Again, what you're doing is limiting any answer that you'll ever allow for any question you ever ask, if you set the parameters for the experiment. The tools you build will always only ever tell you what you already presume to know. You're saying literally, 'no, I won't accept the real answer if it doesn't fit in the box'. If in 20 years it's scientifically possible to measure everything you can't measure now, will that satisfy the question that you pose now? Happily, we all get true experiences outside of that paradigm to assist us.

You're stuck right where you stick yourself. You have to find out what love is first before there can be an answer. Don't ask the rest of reality to stay stuck there with you.

And again, you totally misunderstand what beauty is.

Good luck with that quest.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tupEiWmlfKU&feature=related

[Guest]

Ok, it seems some of you misinterpret what I really meant when I asked the question.
Let me try to rephrase it: Scientifically speaking, do the human species need intimate relationships with the opposite sex (although, sometimes the same sex) in order to survive?

Further, I do not believe anything can exist that cannot be measured by science. Although there might be things that exist that have not yet been, or can not yet be measured by science.
Science is a part of our world and it is not separate from anything else in our world - how then, could we possible have something that doesn't have a relationship with science at all? - It doesn't make sense.

To further, and possible better describe my question: Is both love and beauty just cultural and social things perpetuated by our current social structure? - Are we in fact being conditioned and literally programmed from the moment we are born - to pursue our opposite sex that is in line with all the women\guys on televisions, magazines, porn movies etc?

Or might it be (at it's core), something that is essential to the survival of the human race?

Put more simply: Can I get depressed because I do not engage in physical, intimate contact with other humans of my opposite sex?

Not easy for me to get my brain or heart wrapped around the science of Love maybe the Art of Love....

we breath it in and breath it out everyday

Nora

we are all related