NDE: Many experience Heaven - but others experience Hell - your opinion?

[Fundy Gemini]

Like many here, I'm on a spiritual journey, trying (real hard) to find out just what my path is and what my beliefs REALLY are.

I have a scientific background, and a not-so-positive position on religious institutions (and therefore what they offer as "spiritual facts") - however - JUST when I'm comfortable with a spiritual paradigm that vibrates with my own intuition - I come across the knowledge that not only do many people experience Heaven during NDE (near death experience) there are many folks who also vividly experience Hell (???)

If only firing neurons and brain chemicals were to blame, one would expect unanimously the reports of light tunnels, euphoria etc. *but* one would not expect the hell experience...

- So I'm lost again -

Do you have an opinion on this?

> I do (try) to meditate (but suffer from ADD, so concentration is not a strong-suite)

> I have VERY vivid dreams (have all of my life - many of which tell me I have been here a very long time, and have been Many things during that time) but is that just imagination??

> I have very strong intuitions (many of which are prophetic in nature) but is it coincidence?

> I have daily (what can only be termed as "thought bubble" conversations) -but with who?? higher self I guess..?? Is it only me ... thinking to myself?

I'm really at a loss - I feel (I wish) that there is a spirituality that is eternal in nature, but then I come across these folks how have gone to hell! (what?)

I don't know .... if there is character in the 'Bible' I jive with it's (doubting) Thomas - I guess that's one reason that I'm drawn to the whole "ascended beings who can guide and teach us, and tell us the TRUTH" part of the UFO community, how nice it would be to have these answers and KNOW beyond doubt that it isn't all just wishful thinking

-deep sigh- and sometimes I think I'm just nuts:crazy:

[another bob]

Greetings, Friend!

Here's a comprehensive take on the subject by one of the most coherent experiencers:

Hellish Near-death Experiences

Several people have raised a question about a blanket statement I made in my books, and in a YouTube video, that "there is no hell." They have pointed out to me that several near-death experiencers (NDErs) report hellish environments. For example, Alexis writes in a YouTube comment:

"You said that hell does not exist in the mind of the source in your video. But a lot of people had a hellish experience. Can you help me to understand!! Please."

To be clear, what I learned as I merged into Source is that there is no place, or level of existence, where Source/God sends people for all eternity to suffer for their behavior.

First, I personally give the highest credibility to NDE accounts. In short, I believe NDErs truly experienced what they report.

Second, no one on the outside can even begin to truly evaluate someone else's interior, personal, spiritual experience. Those of us who have had near-death and afterlife experiences can empathize with our brethren. And our experiences may have similar features. But, just like there is no way to be certain you and I are seeing the exact same color when we call something "blue," there is no way to be certain we are truly on the "same wavelength" when we think we understand another's near-death experience. So, I could be completely wrong about hellish NDEs.

Third, I naturally view others' experiences in light of what I learned during my own. My understanding is that when I died, it was my time to leave human life permanently. I never reached a barrier beyond which I could not pass. I was never told I had to go back to human life. And, no one resuscitated me before I returned to Nanci's body voluntarily. Consequently, it is my understanding that what I went through is the full-blown process we follow after death to transition back to our natural spiritual state, and ultimately to merge back into Source. I experienced steps that are much deeper in the transition process than maybe 99% of near-death and afterlife experiencers. That gives me a perspective from which I can place others' accounts into a rough timeline on the transition process. In other words, I know that certain things change as you get deeper into the process because (a) that's what happened to me, and (b) Universal Knowledge informed me about the process.

I was given no Universal Knowledge about hellish NDEs during my afterlife experience. Anything I say about them is an extrapolation from what I remember of afterlife Knowledge on other topics. Based upon the accounts I have read or heard, my guess is the experiencer unknowingly, and unwittingly, manifested the hellish physical environment. Let me explain.

Universal Knowledge informed me that we have the ability, as parts of Source, to literally manifest what humans perceive to be reality. We are each capable of creating our own personal hell at any stage of our existence-during human life, or in what we call the afterlife. Our thoughts can create the same types of physical matter we see on Earth. And, while our manifestations may take time when we are in body, we manifest instantly once we leave the body. All it takes is attention and intention for us to manifest into physical reality (for us) what we truly, deeply believe. There are several stages in the after death transition process when we manifest what we expect, based on our beliefs. Eventually, though, Universal Knowledge enters our minds, informs us about manifesting, and allows us to see that we are creating the physical environments ourselves.

The hellish NDE accounts I have read occur, as Alexis notes, "before we see the light and not after." This is manifesting prime time. If we know we are dying, or are about to die, it is human nature to turn our thoughts to what we expect to happen after death. Someone who has been steeped in a religious tradition that believes in hell, and who truly, deeply believes in and fears hell, can easily manifest that belief into his/her own personal hellish physical reality when they leave the body. This manifested environment is most often created before the person sees the Light and feels Source's incredible love.

Rev. Howard Storm's hellish experience is a perfect example. He died in a hospital in excruciating pain, left his body, and manifested his own feared version of hell. He claims in his book that, at the time he died, he did not believe in heaven, hell, or God. But, his childhood Christian belief in hell rose to the surface in response to his fear of dying. He later saw the Light, and a Being of Light, when he started singing the children's song, "Jesus loves me. This I know." Rev. Storm believes Jesus saved him from hell. I believe switching his attention and intention from anguish to salvation broke the hellish manifestation. His experience thereafter progressed as the typical positive NDE. Mellen-Thomas Benedict's NDE started "in hell," as well. When he became aware that he was trapped in his own negative thoughts and fears, he shifted his attention and saw the Light. He states that he knew he had been manifesting the hellish experience himself.

Our understanding of what is happening to us during an NDE or afterlife experience depends upon (a) how far into the transition process we get, (b) our personal frame of reference (such as religious beliefs, education level, personality, etc.), and (c) our emotions at the time of death.

(a) For example, someone who just sees the Light, and then returns to the body, may very reasonably assume the Light is God. Those of us who entered into the Light realize it is not. Someone who enters into the Light, and goes no farther, may very reasonably believe he/she has merged into God. Those of us who actually merged into Source later in the process know being in the Light is not merger. Someone who gets back into body right after experiencing a hellish manifestation will be absolutely convinced that hell is real. Each person's understanding of what happened to him/her is limited by how far he/she went in the after-death process.

(b) Universal Knowledge explained that during the early stages of a near-death or afterlife experience, we still perceive everything the same way we did in the body, i.e., from the human perspective. It takes quite a bit of processing for that perspective to be worn off and replaced with what I call Light Being perspective. Thus, experiencers return absolutely convinced of their human-based interpretation of what they went through, if they did not get far enough in the transition process to gain the Light Being perspective. Physical environments are believed to be real-until the person's awareness is raised high enough to understand they are manifested. Spiritual beings appear with human-like bodies-until later in the transition when "knowings" allow the person to understand that bodies are not needed in a spiritual level of awareness. Etc.

(c) Sometimes a person who reports a hellish or frightening NDE experienced the same phenomena as those who report wonderful experiences. The difference is in the attitude of the experiencer. One person's dark, hellish, "nothingness" is another person's dark, comforting, supportive void. One person's tunnel of horrors sucking them out of life is another person's glorious trip through the universe.

Finally, a few of the frightening accounts I have read were penned by people who did not claim to have died. According to their own accounts, the experiences happened when they were asleep, blacked out, or overdosed on drugs. I am not qualified to comment on what goes on in those altered states of consciousness.

Thank you so much for being open to the message I returned from death to share.

Nanci Danison



Blessings!

[Fundy Gemini]

.

Nanci ~ I truly thank you.

My search is earnest and my story goes a bit deeper, but your words have helped enormously.

Yes - you are a blessing, thank you so much for sharing it with me ♥

[Godiam]

Hello Fundy Gemini,

If firing neurons, and brain chemicals are able to explain conciousness, then I would buy the story of NDE's being the result of a lack of oxygen to the brain, or whatever!............ I don't agree!

My belief about the difference in peoples NDE's experience is that our thoughts and beliefs create our perception of reality, and therefore if one is a believer in the churches concept of God and feels they have not adhered to the teachings (as taught by thier version of church) ie: Sinned..... Then an experience of death may well seem like an experience in hell.......because a belief has created that experience!!

I personally have had an close shave with death, when I experienced an electric shock many years ago...... I felt my awareness (Conciousness) outside of my body, just for a moment, and this experience is what started me on my spiritual path!!

HUGS........Godiam

[Fundy Gemini]

Hi Godiam (God- I -Am) :)

Thank you for your response. I agree with you regarding the NDE's not being what is currently explained by science. There is fortunately some really good research being done in that field at the moment, which is wonderful. What does puzzle and concern me is that some people regardless of preconceived notions of religion and/or the quality of their persona on the physical realm - have these very different experiences ie: good vs evil / heaven vs hell

If I understand you correctly, I think you and Nanci are of the same mind, and it certainly is a good explanation.

Thank you very much for responding and hugs right back to you :)

[geoff]

Hi, I don,t reply to many threads but I felt an urge to post a reply. It,s not true that 'lots' of people have hellish NDE's, some do, most have positive experiences. My first OBE happened when I was just 5 yrs old, although at the time of course I didn't know what it was, although I never forgot it. Then from the age of thirteen I had lots, though I never told anybody, I thought I was unique, as at the time you never heard anything about such experiences. It changed my life at the time, because it proved to me that you could continue to exist outside of the body, although I continued not to believe in God. Personally I believe after death you continue to create your own reality, if you carry the baggage, if you believe you deserve hell you will find your self there even though its just an illusion. John Lilly in one of his books wrote about an experience of hell he had while in a coma; he experienced what it was like to be a machine, repeating the same task over and over, with no outside stimulus, imagine the boredom and monotony, for him that was hell; I think it probably would be for me too. If you are of a scientific mind why don't you read some Gurdjieff. Gurdjieff said that he would never teach anything that you could not verify for yourself by observation. He had a big following amongst scientists. Have a look at 'in search of the miraculous' by P.D.Ouspensky.

[another bob]

.

Nanci ~ I truly thank you.

My search is earnest and my story goes a bit deeper, but your words have helped enormously.

Yes - you are a blessing, thank you so much for sharing it with me ♥

Greetings, Friend!

It's rare indeed to get an uncorrupted view of how things actually stack up. In over half a century of thorough investigation, she's one of a very few that I've encountered who are not just guessing or speculating, basing views on borrowed concepts, insane, or just outright liars. As I also suspected, just about every religion and spiritual system has got it backwards, irregardless of a few shining lights that have appeared from time to time historically (although none speak as plainly and to the point for today's seeker as Nanci, imho).
Besides her YouTubes and blog, she's also published a couple of books. I've recently started the first one, and hope a lot more people get a chance to hear this stuff!

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_13?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=nanci+danison&sprefix=nanci+danison

Blessings!

[letmedanz]

Fundy Gemini,

i do find a striking resemblance to what you and i experience.

i tick 'yes' for all the points you make there.

i can not somehow meditate though i have made an attempt and learnt the techniques.
Concentration is just one of the problems :)

i have super crazily amazingly vivid dreams too.
and from a very young age at that.
it is definitely not your imagination cos i have seen things in my dreams i could not even imagine.
now that raises a doubt don't it!

i do too have very very strong intuitions & i must say they are getting stronger recently.

the thought bubbles happen all the time!
it is like there is someone i have just accepted to be inside of me talking to me at all times, even now.
i can even hear him/her chuckling at times ;)

now, with respect to NDEs i believe it depends on us.
how we have lived.
how we KNOW how we have lived.
you might have led a life of evil, but to society you may be a saint.
even you may have forgotten or accepted your evil nature, but you have built up your karma.

your consciousness recognizes your deeds and your last few moments are spent in recollecting & self judgment.

at this time, when people actually can see only the evil in their lives, they can certainly expect 'hell'

they say this period lasts for a while before the soul can rest in its real resting place.

well that's my take on it & there's no way for me to prove or disprove it but this is what has made sense to me up until now!

all the best

peace

[Fundy Gemini]

First - Thank you for each and every one of your posts, they have all helped me immensely!
:grouphug:

ABob - haha, so sorry for confusing you with Nanci, (blush) shows just how much more Indeed to study! ;) your post regarding HER work was exactly what I was wondering about, and again, Thank You so much for taking the time to post it to me. I'll definitely be following up and her and the other references ♥

Geoff - I'm so glad that you took the time to respond, you have much to offer, so please do keep contributing! You have been a great help and on your advice have already been looking up the great work and insight of Gurdjieff (in fact in that search I was brought to a video that I will post below that was of great interest to me and is a nice summation by Jacob Needleman, who mentions Gurdjieff in the video)

Letmedanz - Ohhhh - it's so NICE to meet you my friend :) You have described me to a Tee! Yes, these 'thought bubble' conversations sometimes make me think my imagination is out of control (*LOL*) I think that because I was raised under an authoritarian Father, and a very authoritarian church as a youngster, I have a residual 'guilt complex' that never fully lets me live without 'fear' of not being 'enough' in the end, and fear of Hell .. which after the gains I've made spiritually for freedom of this, is why finding people who have NDE's of Hell - really threw me -eek-

You have all been VERY helpful .. Thank you so much!

Her is the video I found, nothing really 'new' but I wanted to share it ...

http://www.gurdjieffclub.ru/fileadmin/flash/FlowPlayerDark.swf?allowfullscreen=TRUE&config={'videoFile':'/uploads/tx_skimggallery/Jacob_Needleman.flv'}

[letmedanz]

First - Thank you for each and every one of your posts, they have all helped me immensely!
:grouphug:


Letmedanz - Ohhhh - it's so NICE to meet you my friend :) You have described me to a Tee! Yes, these 'thought bubble' conversations sometimes make me think my imagination is out of control (*LOL*) I think that because I was raised under an authoritarian Father, and a very authoritarian church as a youngster, I have a residual 'guilt complex' that never fully lets me live without 'fear' of not being 'enough' in the end, and fear of Hell .. which after the gains I've made spiritually for freedom of this, is why finding people who have NDE's of Hell - really threw me -eek-



Well, that is quite different with me.
i grew up in a family as a single child and no one really pushed me for everything.
my parents wanted me to see the world & learn from it with in my own eyes and from my perspective.
so... here i am the way i wanted to be :D

i would really like to offer you one peace of advise-
let go of fear, residual or otherwise.

why fear? dear limits you, stops you from being who you are.
fear, residual or not is your greatest enemy.
hey in this world wat's the worst that could happen to you and me?
we may die! it shouldn't be such a bad thing considering the number of people rushing there!

beyond death is something you really can't be afraid of cos no one knows wat's beyond.
it's in your mind.
believe that there is something good waiting for you on the other side.
that should do it.

Cheers and keep smiling!

there is no need to fear anything but fear itself

[58andfixed]

Hi Fundy Gemini:

People might not expect "hell," unless life review [aka NDE, aka soul review], was a stage of transition [aka DEATH] into a life form/stage that is less material than we have.

So this could be taken as evidence that we are spiritual beings in material bodies.

****

"Consciousness Beyond Life" - Pim van Lommel

"... internationally renowned cardiologist Dr. Pim van Lommel offers ground-breaking research into whether or not our consciousness survives the death of our body."

***

http://www.pimvanlommel.nl/?Endless_consciousness

"the first medical practitioner to have undertaken a full, systematic study of near-death experiences (NDEs)."

"As a cardiologist, he was struck by the number of his patients who claimed to have near-death experiences as a result of their heart attacks."

"As a scientist, this was difficult for him to accept: Wouldn't it be scientifically irresponsible of him to ignore the evidence of these stories? "

***


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOeLJCdHojU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOeLJCdHojU

27m 11s 20,404 views

Posted October 28, 2010

"Mel Van Dusen interviews renowned cardiologist Pim van Lommel about his research into the near-death experience and it's implications ... "

****

I would endorse the idea that there are consequences for choices we make, even if we ignore or deny them in 'real time.'

- 58






If only firing neurons and brain chemicals were to blame, one would expect unanimously the reports of light tunnels, euphoria etc. *but* one would not expect the hell experience...

[another bob]

"the first medical practitioner to have undertaken a full, systematic study of near-death experiences (NDEs)."

Greetings, Friend!

Dr. Michael Newton, although not specifically focused on the classic nde, has provided a significant body of research into the afterlife experience. For those unfamiliar with his work, but with an interest in the subject, will find his material well worth investigating.

http://www.spiritualregression.org/



"As a cardiologist, he was struck by the number of his patients who claimed to have near-death experiences as a result of their heart attacks."

Several well-known oncologists were struck by the Anita Moorjani case, documented here:

http://anitamoorjani.com/?page_id=159


Blessings!

[58andfixed]

Pam Reynolds (singer)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pam_Reynolds%27_NDE

"In 1991, at the age of 35, she claims to have had a near-death experience (NDE) during a brain operation."

"Her claim of NDE is one of the most notable and best documented in NDE research because of the unusual circumstances under which it happened."

"Reynolds was under close medical monitoring during the entire operation."

"During part of the operation she had no brain-wave activity and no blood flowing in her brain, which left her clinically dead."

"She made several observations about the procedure which later were confirmed by medical personnel as surprisingly accurate."

"This famous near-death experience claim is considered by many to be proof of the reality of the survival of consciousness after death, and of a life after death."

- 58

[Kristo]

Dr. Melvin Morse is a pediatrician who set out to disprove the NDE experience and became a believer. He has several books out. The perspectives the experiencers come back with changed my view of life forever. This spurned my spiritual awakening as an adult.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

[QUOTE=another bob;351248][QUOTE=58andfixed;
[quote Several well-known oncologists were struck by the Anita Moorjani case, documented here:

http://anitamoorjani.com/?page_id=159

Just read Anita's story. Amazing!!! Thank you for sharing 58AF

[D-Day]

Hi Fundy Gemini :)

Great thread!

Not sure, but I think you might find Anthony Peake's take on NDE's worth a look.

Anthony is a a British writer whose research focuses on NDE's, human consciousness, de ja vu, synchronicity and the nature of reality.

Thought I would post a couple of YouTube vids for anyone here who is interested and hasn't come across his work before....

Anthony Peake - Life After Death.
(Anthony's interview starts at 0:51:30)
YQGneoUlZ0U

Anthony Peake - Deja Vu and Near Death Experiences.
jWXpVKzWeuo

Anthony Peake - Perception, Reality, and the Holographic Universe.
AM93UADNOoQ

Also, here's a link to his website:

http://www.anthonypeake.co.uk/index.php