The Bible

[Beren]

We are capable.
We are capable to do good or bad. Choice is ours.
God during all history of life has lit many beacons to aid many different souls since difference needs different approach.

Bible is one of those beacons .

Either you see this or don`t.
You are free to ignore it, destroy the beacon, persuade others that it is false light and call all evidence about misuse.
That`s your free will.

Free will. Your free will was granted,you see, from God . And The very God -the builder of various beacons including Bible , will erect another and another until you get the light and embrace it.

Millions if not Billions in last two millenniums were saved from darkness by God and Christ and Bible.
Do you dare to ignore this?

Sure, you can.

Ignoring however will not change the fact of what I just said.
It will also not ignore the fact of hideous murders throughout history in the name of very God who erected beacons.

Bible carries enormous worth, more than you know (you-all of us) but it is not the only beacon.
You see, word of God is much broader than one book or whole library of books or every book that was ever written on Earth or every possible piece of work in any tech in whole Universe...

Simply word of God is truth and light and love and power and justice.

And it will always find the way to hearts and souls no matter what we do.
Because it`s God`s.

Pay due respect to light you find in God`s word. If you don`t like it - kiss it and leave it.

And no it will not haunt you or kill you- an immortal soul cannot be killed.
Word of God will only face you with Life itself -God- where you cannot hide in illusions.
But there your highest judge will be your soul finally at knowledge and realisation of how`s and when`s and why`s and who`s...

God is Love and will lovingly allow you to see all angles of your actions and desires.

And then by your choice you will grow or you will fall into low.
Not destroyed.

When and if you choose to grow instead to fall ,you will be one with God thus no need for any beacon of light in any form.
Why?

Because you are the light then.

Now until you realize this (you-all of us) , I bless you on your road. May you (all of us) find what we looking for.

[Eram]

We are capable.
We are capable to do good or bad. Choice is ours.
God during all history of life has lit many beacons to aid many different souls since difference needs different approach.

Bible is one of those beacons .

Either you see this or don`t.
You are free to ignore it, destroy the beacon, persuade others that it is false light and call all evidence about misuse.
That`s your free will.

Free will. Your free will was granted,you see, from God . And The very God -the builder of various beacons including Bible , will erect another and another until you get the light and embrace it.

Millions if not Billions in last two millenniums were saved from darkness by God and Christ and Bible.
Do you dare to ignore this?

Sure, you can.

Ignoring however will not change the fact of what I just said.
It will also not ignore the fact of hideous murders throughout history in the name of very God who erected beacons.

Bible carries enormous worth, more than you know (you-all of us) but it is not the only beacon.
You see, word of God is much broader than one book or whole library of books or every book that was ever written on Earth or every possible piece of work in any tech in whole Universe...

Simply word of God is truth and light and love and power and justice.

And it will always find the way to hearts and souls no matter what we do.
Because it`s God`s.

Pay due respect to light you find in God`s word. If you don`t like it - kiss it and leave it.

And no it will not haunt you or kill you- an immortal soul cannot be killed.
Word of God will only face you with Life itself -God- where you cannot hide in illusions.
But there your highest judge will be your soul finally at knowledge and realisation of how`s and when`s and why`s and who`s...

God is Love and will lovingly allow you to see all angles of your actions and desires.

And then by your choice you will grow or you will fall into low.
Not destroyed.

When and if you choose to grow instead to fall ,you will be one with God thus no need for any beacon of light in any form.
Why?

Because you are the light then.

Now until you realize this (you-all of us) , I bless you on your road. May you (all of us) find what we looking for.

Amen

:yo:

[RedeZra]

God loves us so much

that God crucified His only begotten Son

so Yes God loves us


but if we don't obey God but keep on sinning

then God will flush us down the sewer


I was talking about God who loves us unconditionally.

You talk about a narrow minded God, who only exists in the narrow minds of men.


the Bible does not say that God is unconditionally loving

but that God is unconditionally forgiving

if we stop sinning

[RedeZra]

[....snip]
"Ye are of your father the DEVIL...."


Jesus is not calling Yahweh the devil or diabolos but Satan our accuser and adversary
[....snip]




The book says DEVIL, Red.

It's either literal, or it's figurative.

Most of your rhetoric is literal interpretations.

You can't have it both ways to suit your agenda. That's called "cherry-picking".


yes the verse says devil but it doesn't mention Yahweh

so you just think Jesus is refering to Yahweh

when He is talking about the devil who is satan

[RedeZra]

God did not bring the Quran

Red you have not done your research here. The same God who sent the Angel Gabriel to announce to Mary that she was to concieve and bring Jesus into the world, This same God sent the same Angel Gabriel to Mohamed to write down the Quran.


how can it be the same angel

when the angel announces to Mary

that she will give birth to the Son of God

and not some prophet as the Quran says


And the angel answered and said to her, "[The] Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God. - Luke 1:35

[RedeZra]

i stick to the Bible

Like glue. You wont look at or address anything which challenges your biblical paradigm, such as the origins of monotheism, the prevalence of pagan blood sacrifice ritual in all of the ancient beliefs, or the notion that a god can be murderous, torturous, and angry at the same time as love unconditionally.

Unconditional means..."WITHOUT CONDITION" so god cannot have it both ways. Impossible.


i've looked into it

and the Bible is rock solid


who told you that God is unconditional love ?


Scripture says God loves righteousness and hates unrighteousness

but because of love for us God sent Christ to pin every sin to the Cross

and so we will be forgiven unconditionally if we stop sinning







you have chosen another source for your understanding


Nope, wrong again. It's not "A Source" that I have chosen, it's many many lifetimes of experience, imbedded in the DNA of my very immortal soul, coupled with all of the available resources of the ancient gnostic truths, as well as the archeological records, the akashic records, the astrotheology and the very nature of consciousness and planet earth herself. ALL OF IT. Like Yeshua said, my people perish for what? LACK OF KNOWLEDGE.



well the Bible says we only live once so i dunno

you got a gut feeling and some resonance ringing maybe coupled with divination or witchcraft

My people perish for not reading the Bible and obeying Jesus Christ

[RedeZra]

I see what's happening here....

It's a classical case of:
"Yes it is"
"No it isn't"

The most dead end street of them all.

50 pages of them.... my God!

Everyone may believe what he/she wants.




actually it's a case of Bible teachings vs other opinions

[RedeZra]

Heaven is not a given but God has made it possible through Jesus Christ

so what must we do to get in ?


we have to stop sinning start obeying the Ten Commands and seek the Spirit of Jesus Christ

and baptism is recommended for receiving the Holy spirit who will convict and correct us



Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

"And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

When His disciples heard [it], they were greatly astonished, saying, "Who then can be saved?"

But Jesus looked at [them] and said to them, "With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." - Matthew 19:23-26

[RedeZra]

Jesus Christ accomplished several things here on earth


He atoned for all the sins of the world and so He has the power to forgive our sins

He gave God a Name and Form as it is hard to have a relationship with Spirit

He showed us how to live as His life and words are good examples to us


i'm sure there is more but three is good

[Billy]

God did not bring the Quran

Red you have not done your research here. The same God who sent the Angel Gabriel to announce to Mary that she was to concieve and bring Jesus into the world, This same God sent the same Angel Gabriel to Mohamed to write down the Quran.


how can it be the same angel

when the angel announces to Mary

that she will give birth to the Son of God

and not some prophet as the Quran says


And the angel answered and said to her, "[The] Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God. - Luke 1:35

Because within the Angelic Realms each Angel is unique by their name, Each has their role as either messenger, Healer, Protector, Etc. Gabriel is known as the angel of revelation. God often chooses Gabriel to communicate important messages. There is only one Gabriel Red.

http://www.lucidcafe.com/library/95dec/muhammad.html
Muhammad was born around the year 570 in the city of Mecca, Arabia. His name means "highly praised." Muhammad's full name was Abu al-Qasim Muhammad Ibn Abd Allah Ibn Abd al-Muttalib Ibn Hashim. He was the last prophet of the religion of Islam.

Muhammad's father, Abdallah, died several weeks before his birth and his mother, Aminah, died when he was six years old. He was raised by his paternal grandfather, 'Abd al Muttalib, until the age of eight, and after his grandfather's death by Abu Talib, his paternal uncle. Under the guardianship of Abu Talib, Muhammad began to earn a living as a businessman and a trader.

The tradition of Islam claims that in the year 610, Muhammad, while on a retreat to Mount Hira for meditation during the month of Ramadan, received his first revelation from the Archangel Gabriel. Gabriel said to Muhammad: "Iqraa," meaning "read" or "recite." He replied, "I cannot read." Gabriel embraced Muhammad and after releasing him repeated: "Iqraa." Muhammad's answer was the same as before. Gabriel repeated the embrace, asking Muhammad to repeat after him and said: "Recite in the name of your Lord who created! He created man from that which clings. Recite; and thy Lord is most Bountiful, He who has taught by the pen, taught man what he knew not."

The Angel Gabriel visited the Muhammad many times over a period of twenty-three years. Gabriel taught Muhammad the verses and he instructed his scribes to record them. All the revealed verses are compiled in the Qur'an. The Prophet's sayings and actions are recorded separately in collections known as Hadith. Muslims believe that Muhammad was a messenger of Allah (Arabic for The One and Only God) and last of the prophets sent by Allah to guide man to the right path.

The Prophet's mission was to restore the worship of the One True God, the creator and sustainer of the universe, as taught by Prophet Abraham and all Prophets of God, and to demonstrate the laws of moral, ethical, legal, and social conduct. Islam means peace by submission and obedience to the Will and Commandments of God. Those who accept Islam are called Muslims, meaning those who have accepted the message of peace by submission to God.

Divine Revelation

http://www.religionfacts.com/islam/history/prophet.htm

In his late 30s Muhammad took to regularly visiting a cave in Mount Hira, on the outskirts of Mecca, to seek solitude and contemplation. In 610, at the age of 40, Muhammad returned from one such visit telling his wife he had either gone mad or become a prophet, for he had been visited by an angel. The initially startled Khadija became his first convert.

Muhammad reported that while in a trance-like state, the Angel Gabriel appeared to him and said "Proclaim!" But like Moses, Muhammed was a reluctant prophet. He replied, "I am not a proclaimer." The angel persisted, and the Prophet repeatedly resisted, until the angel finally overwhelmed Muhammad and commanded him:

Proclaim in the name of your Lord who created!
Created man from a clot of blood.
Proclaim: Your Lord is the Most Generous,
Who teaches by the pen;
Teaches man what he knew not. (Qur'an 96:1-3)
http://angels.about.com/od/AngelsReligiousTexts/p/Meet-Archangel-Gabriel.htm
Role in Religious Texts:
Gabriel plays an important role in the religious texts of Islam, Judaism, and Christianity. The founder of Islam, the prophet Muhammad, said that Gabriel appeared to him to dictate the entire Qur’an. In Al Baqarah 2:97, the Qur’an declares: “Who is an enemy to Gabriel! For he brings down the (revelation) to thy heart by God's will, a confirmation of what went before, and guidance and glad tidings for those who believe." In the Hadith, Gabriel again appears to Muhammad and quizzes him about Islam’s tenets. Muslims believe that Gabriel gave the prophet Abraham a stone known as the Black Stone of Ka'aba; Muslims who travel on pilgrimages to Mecca, Saudi Arabia kiss that stone. Muslims, Jews, and Christians all believe that Gabriel delivered news of the upcoming births of three famous religious figures: Isaac, John, and Jesus. So people sometimes associate Gabriel with childbirth, adoption, and raising children. Jewish tradition says that Gabriel instructs babies before they’re born. In the Torah, Gabriel interprets the prophet Daniel’s visions, saying in Daniel 9:22 that he has come to give Daniel “insight and understanding.” Jews believe that, in heaven, Gabriel stands besides God’s throne at God’s left hand. God sometimes charges Gabriel with expressing his judgment against sinful people, Jewish beliefs say, as God did when he sent Gabriel to use fire to destroy the ancient city of Sodom that was filled with wicked people. Christians often think of Gabriel informing Mary that God has chosen her to become the mother of Jesus Christ. The Bible quotes Gabriel as telling Mary in Luke 1:30-31: “Do not be afraid, Mary; you have found favor with God. You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High.” During the same visit, Gabriel informs Mary of her cousin Elizabeth’s pregnancy with John the Baptist.

It is the same Angel Redezra. Only one Gabriel.

Peace

[RedeZra]

how can it be the same angel

when the angel announces to Mary

that she will give birth to the Son of God

and not some prophet as the Quran says




Because within the Angelic Realms each Angel is unique by their name, Each has their role as either messenger, Healer, Protector, Etc. Gabriel is known as the angel of revelation. God often chooses Gabriel to communicate important messages. There is only one Gabriel Red.




i do not think Gabriel is a misguided messenger messing up messages

but the Bible says satan is able to appear as an angel



And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.

Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. 2 Corinthians 11:14-15


i suspect Moroni falls into this category as well

[Billy]

Just to say i have enjoyed the debating/sharing conversations on this pentacost sunday, thank you. i leave you all with a invocation that i remember from my catholic experiences. one that i still love to recite.

Come Holy Spirit, fill the hearts of your faithful and kindle in them the fire of your love. Send forth your Spirit and they shall be created. And You shall renew the face of the earth.


Amen and blessed be

peace

[RedeZra]

Just to say i have enjoyed the debating/sharing conversations on this pentacost sunday, thank you. i leave you all with a invocation that i remember from my catholic experiences. one that i still love to recite.

Come Holy Spirit, fill the hearts of your faithful and kindle in them the fire of your love. Send forth your Spirit and they shall be created. And You shall renew the face of the earth.


Amen and blessed be

peace




Beautiful Billyji



Lord Let Your Fire Fall


Ogv6Cyj0IP4

[Billy]

Did you know that the holy spirit is feminine. She is the Shekinah, Wisdom herself.


no i did not know that



Of course remembering that the Holy Spirit is the divine feminine

peace

[RedeZra]

why do i believe the Bible ?



the testimonies about Jesus


Nasir Siddiki meets Jesus and is healed from shingles

52UChmWddW8



the works and words of Ron Wyatt


Jesu Blood on the Ark of the Covenant containing the Ten Commandments writ in stone

EGLPADW_kUw


Noah's Ark in Ararat

3PSZNYdfawQ


Sodom & Gomorrah

oG3QsisQrkc


Mt. Sinai in Saudi Arabia

K-eSRcr9CWw



the signs in the sky confirming Scriptural information


the Star of Bethlehem

QGeSRyzN49Q

[greybeard]

Interesting discussion with David Sereda and Christian on the Bible.
Some thoughts on the near future outlined by David Sereda.
I have no opinion on it as I havent studies the various view points.

Chris


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrrhC0fI-ko

[Kindred]

I just happened upon this item this morning... Quite Enlightening!

Here's the origin of RedeZra's avatar... not the statue/model itself, but the Origin of the Concept...

The entire interview is intriguing, but the particular segment of interest is at around 32 min's in.

"Inside The Actors Studio - George Carlin" on YouTube


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekRTGDuf07o

In Unity, Peace and Love

[Lifebringer]

Amen to that. It's amazing sometimes when the verses fit our generation and the parables Jesus spoke, were not for that generation, who would not have understood, and was being cafefully molded to the GovRomanKing books after changing the books, and destroying any true Christians by feeding them to the lions. They didn't want to leave any strings untied, so the masses would one day find that the reason for the Revelation of the 7 Churches/lampstands, was because of the "changing of God's word."

The parables went above their heads, even the part about take this and eat and drink for this is my body, and this wine is my blood. His word is the gospel, and the drinking of the word, their salvation to the Kingdom of God's Heaven on earth.
Just amazing that the wisdom to go to the very ends of the 6,000 years of man's selfish rule, that fits and is guide to the 'blinders of the elders" that allowed this to happen for a "few shekels" against the children and grandchildren's future and world. They destroy the water and air, and think NO ONE will notice?

What disconnected dots we have in our world.

[gripreaper]

Using technology to fix the problems created by technology seems to be an insane thing to do....

George Carlin.

[Beren]

Interesting discussion with David Sereda and Christian on the Bible.
Some thoughts on the near future outlined by David Sereda.
I have no opinion on it as I havent studies the various view points.

Chris


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrrhC0fI-ko



Chris that was a good video.
I agree with Sereda but also in some points with this guy Christian.
Though Christian is a bit dogmatic as many religious people are.

Ever wonder why Christ argued with Pharisees and other authorities in those years?
Because they became ones like this guy Christian is today.

It`s like holding to written words and texts and else so adamantly that you fail to see alive Christ infront of you.
Christ is an eye ,heart and soul opener.

And is above texts,words and belief systems.
He`s God ,and difference between us and him is that he`s aware of this and majority isn`t.

Being God you can do whatever you so please in all existence in all dimensions.
And here you find a person who clings to their vision of what God is or how does it looks like and such.

So actually to accept Christ and thus God and to become as Christ is;
you need to die and be reborn in spirit.

You need to let go of this world and its reasoning and mental blockages.
You need to die for this world and its ways and be reborn into ways of the soul -ways of Christ and ways of God.

But some cling to the world while in the same time claim Christianity...
It doesn`t work like that.

Very Christ says so.

[greybeard]

Hi Beren
The way I see it is, on the death of the ego the illusory individual self realises it it is one with The Father.
Only God is--- One without a second--- the rest is Maya-- Indras dream.
In other words enlightenment--- freedom from ignorance.
Jesus said "God forgive them for they know not what they do" thats the ignorance.
We are in duality-- Non-duality is One without a second.
The mind cant get that.-- It complicates things.
Its simple-- love God and fellow man-- forgive them as we ask for forgivness from Christ.

With Love Chris

[RedeZra]

Hi Beren
The way I see it is, on the death of the ego the illusory individual self realises it it is one with The Father.
Only God is--- One without a second--- the rest is Maya-- Indras dream.



as i have come to understand it


it is the Holy spirit or Spirit of God

who unites us as gods in God


so we do not loose our individuality

but become godlike children of God


because of the indwelling of the Holy spirit

whom Jesus sends to those who believe and ask

[greybeard]

Dear Red--my friend.
Try this for size.
Jesus said The father and I are one. (One means one)
In ancient Vedic that meant merging with God--- no individual left--- One without a second.
Jesus said what he did we can do--- so we can become One--- merged with the Father.
The wave becomes the Ocean.

One is thoughtless awareness--- the is only one uniform awarenes in that state-- condition.
There is no individual awareness as there is no individual left.
Awareness is totally aware of Self
The mind cant get that.

We need subject and object to define ourselves.

Its as though there is One divine Creator God and we are a lesser voltage of that energy on enlightenment but not different or diverse in any way.
Every Avatar and Jesus said the same thing. You are God but you dont know that yet.
You can proclaim it but it is not so till, through the Grace of God, you realize that state--- God realized.
The ancient texts say in that state called enlightenment there is neither subject nor object literalily "all" is One.
God is the totality all of it.

Regards Chris

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Dear Red--my friend.
Try this for size.
Jesus said The father and I are one. (One means one)
In ancient Vedic that meant merging with God--- no individual left--- One without a second.
Jesus said what he did we can do--- so we can become One--- merged with the Father.
The wave becomes the Ocean.

One is thoughtless awareness--- the is only one uniform awarenes in that state-- condition.
There is no individual awareness as there is no individual left.
Awareness is totally aware of Self
The mind cant get that.

We need subject and object to define ourselves.

Its as though there is One divine Creator God and we are a lesser voltage of that energy on enlightenment but not different or diverse in any way.
Every Avatar and Jesus said the same thing. You are God but you dont know that yet.
You can proclaim it but it is not so till, through the Grace of God, you realize that state--- God realized.
The ancient texts say in that state called enlightenment there is neither subject nor object literalily "all" is One.
God is the totality all of it.

Regards Chris

Good post, Chris. This reminds me of the Buddhist teaching of "no self", which is a struggle for many students. In Taoism of course, it is said that there is only the Tao, which would mean the same thing. So we see these three great traditions agree in a way.

[SKIBADABOMSKI]

When I go see a great movie, I get all excited....

Then the buzz starts to go away,

So I go and see the movie again but it's not the same. It's still great but it's just not the same.

Then I take a friend to see the movie and I enjoy it more watching him enjoy it than when I first watched it myself,, wow it's like I watched it for the first time again.

Then the feeling goes away again.

Then my friend does the same ... I want to be there to share the experience. It gives me that feeling again.

We make a club and we try and get everyone to find someone who'll watch the movie with us again. Yes sometimes it's 300 of us all watching one person watching the movie and when he laughs we all laugh and it's very powerful and when he cries we all cry with him.

Some of us can't wait for the next person to watch the movie with us so we try different ways. Some go on streets like Covent Garden in London and scream at people to come and watch this movie. Some try knocking on doors. We all do our bit.

I just hate it when the feeling goes. Sometimes we have 15 people come all at once to watch the movie and that just sends everyones energy wild with glee.

It's tough keeping the buzz alive. It really is.


SKi-

[RedeZra]

Dear Red--my friend.
Try this for size.
Jesus said The father and I are one. (One means one)



yes Chris it means One in Spirit


Jesus has what is called a glorified body

but shares the same Spirit of God with the Father


and we are invited to share this Spirit of God

in our own glorified bodies


so according to the Bible

we do not vanish but live on

in ethereal bodies

with the Spirit of God within

[greybeard]

Hi Red--- we are formless in essence, so says the oldest spiritual texts, Nasargadatta and Ramana and many other enlightened beings all One in Non duality.
We existed befor universes and will exist after universes---the out breath of God creates the inbreath pulls all back in.
I believe what Jesus said but I dont throw the ancient texts out that existed for many thousands of years BC.
The Truth has allways been available.
Im saying dont throw the baby out with the bath water.
Regards Chris

[GCS1103]

God Bless you, Red, for fighting the good fight.

Whether someone comes here to post their thoughts that you are so wrong in your convictions or they agree with you (as I do), you have 52 pages of responses and, at the very least, this thread gets people thinking. That's always a good thing.

Love,
Goldie

[gripreaper]

In duality we need to let all of it go. Our genetic imprints, our socialization, our belief systems, our religions, our churches, our bibles, out savior myths, etc. The whole enchilada is a lie.

It is impossible to see the matrix and come out of it, and merge with the "all that is" until we are willing to let go of all of our sacred cows. The most pervasive and destructive of all of these beliefs is the bible and the whole savior myth.

[RedeZra]

Hi Red--- we are formless in essence, so says the oldest spiritual texts, Nasargadatta and Ramana and many other enlightened beings all One in Non duality.
We existed befor universes and will exist after universes---the out breath of God creates the inbreath pulls all back in.



hi Chris

i'm sure God existed before the universe

but i don't think i did


God is formless but can take form

angels and men are not formless


angels have ethereal bodies while men have also physical bodies

when we die and loose our physicality then we live on in our ethereal bodies


so Scriptural speaking the goal is not to deconstruct the soul and cease to exist

but to fill the soul with the Spirit of God


Regards ; )

¤=[Post Update]=¤


The most pervasive and destructive of all of these beliefs is the bible and the whole savior myth.


actually it's the only one which will save our souls

[greybeard]

The ancient texts do not say you cease to exist, far from it-- your true Self is revealed which is time less, non location, formless and eternal.
Nasargadatta says "Who were you before you were born?"
He said he is the unborn.
The human form is born then we become the indweller.
We are not the human form.
Im sure Angels are as you describe, time being we need them to be as you say.
We are eternal and reincarnate time after time till we discover or rather uncover our true self--- One with God.
There are so many enlightened souls who have said the same thing for thousands of years.
They are uniform in this teaching even though the mesage comes from various cultures.
Die (ego) that you may have eternal life.
Total surrender to the will of God is required---- most religion teach total surrender.

I dont have to be right, because I love Jesus and God Im sure all will be well at the end of my day regardless of any error in my thinking.

Love Chris

ps one teacher whom im sure you know Red said---
There is only One soul and I am it---- That might apply to all of us.
My understanding is that there is only one consciousness evolving spiritually through all of us yet the paradox is that in our true nature we are allready whole and perfect.

[gripreaper]

The most pervasive and destructive of all of these beliefs is the bible and the whole savior myth.
actually it's the only one which will save our souls

Actually my soul does not need saving. My soul is eternal, has always been and always will be, and is not limited by linear time constraints and beliefs vested in duality and 3D consciousness.

Once you realize you are immortal, many of the lies and myths dissolve, not just the savior myth. The other great myth is the myth of death. There is no death, only the death of the myths which keep you trapped, the myths perpetuated in the bible, the elite's playbook for subjugation.

Why is this so hard to see?

[RedeZra]

The ancient texts do not say you cease to exist, far from it-- your true Self is revealed which is time less, non location, formless and eternal.


this sounds like the State of God

formless nameless spaceless timeless


but this position is taken

God is God

and we will never become God


but God invites us to become gods

immortal souls filled with the Spirit of God


and this invitation is given by His Son





We are eternal and reincarnate time after time till we discover or rather uncover our true self--- One with God.



do we really reincarnate ?


there is no basis in the Bible to support this idea

some say what about the Scriptural hints about John the Baptist being Elijah

but the thing is Elijah never died

as he was taken up to God in a chariot of fire

[RedeZra]

Once you realize you are immortal, many of the lies and myths dissolve, not just the savior myth. The other great myth is the myth of death. There is no death, only the death of the myths which keep you trapped, the myths perpetuated in the bible, the elite's playbook for subjugation.



death is not a myth

but a certainty


and if we don't abide by the Constitution of the Kingdom of God

then we will stand before the Tribunal of Heaven


we can be lawless as much as we want

but sooner or later we must all face the Law

[gripreaper]

Once you realize you are immortal, many of the lies and myths dissolve, not just the savior myth. The other great myth is the myth of death. There is no death, only the death of the myths which keep you trapped, the myths perpetuated in the bible, the elite's playbook for subjugation.

death is not a myth but a certainty
and if we don't abide by the Constitution of the Kingdom of God
then we will stand before the Tribunal of Heaven
we can be lawless as much as we want
but sooner or later we must all face the Law

Death is a myth. Elijah came back as John the Baptist, so if he was dead, how did he come back?

The Law is about a 5000 year old construct, developed by Egypt's Akenaten and further developed by the Romans, to subjugate you and make you believe in myths. Tribunal's were developed by the Roman elite in order to keep the populace under their control.

A loving god does not have an elitist, controlling, subjugate, murderous and evil intent. That's all a construct of Law, which is man made.

[RedeZra]

Death is a myth. Elijah came back as John the Baptist, so if he was dead, how did he come back?


Elijah like Enoch did not die






A loving god does not have an elitist, controlling, subjugate, murderous and evil intent. That's all a construct of Law, which is man made.


a loving God is also a just God

so we reap what we sow


if we break the Ten Commandments

then we will be held accountable


so seek the Mercy of Christ and save the soul

after all Jesus is the only one who pinned our sins to the Cross

[gripreaper]

Death is a myth. Elijah came back as John the Baptist, so if he was dead, how did he come back?

Elijah like Enoch did not die

So finally you agree with me. Neither did Enoch, or Elijah, or Yeshua, or me or YOU dies. You are an immortal soul and have reincarnated many times, and will continue to do so until the myths which you cling to are transmuted.



A loving god does not have an elitist, controlling, subjugate, murderous and evil intent. That's all a construct of Law, which is man made.
a loving God is also a just God, so we reap what we sow
if we break the Ten Commandments then we will be held accountable

Like I said earlier, the Law is a construct of man, and tribunals are designed to keep you subjugated to the Rule of Law of man. God has no such man made notions.


so seek the Mercy of Christ and save the soul

Like I said earlier, my soul does not need saving. My soul is eternal, has always been god, and IS god. Why would god need to be saved?


after all Jesus is the only one who pinned our sins to the Cross

This is a pagan blood sacrifice ritual which existed in all of the early myths, and was inserted into the bible to keep you in fear and subjugated to the elite, by inserting it in their playbook, the bible.

It is a false and misleading notion, and is one of the major lies perpetrated by the controllers. Like Yeshua said "Oh death, where is thy sting?" He was teaching us that there is no death.

[RedeZra]

So finally you agree with me. Neither did Enoch, or Elijah, or Yeshua, or me or YOU dies. You are an immortal soul and have reincarnated many times, and will continue to do so until the myths which you cling to are transmuted.


no i do not agree


you and i will die

Enoch and Elijah did not die but was taken up to God

Jesus did die and was resurrected





Like I said earlier, the Law is a construct of man, and tribunals are designed to keep you subjugated to the Rule of Law of man. God has no such man made notions.


we can make as many laws as we like

and we do

but God is the Final authority





Like I said earlier, my soul does not need saving. My soul is eternal, has always been god, and IS god. Why would god need to be saved?


satan made this same mistake





after all Jesus is the only one who pinned our sins to the Cross

This is a pagan blood sacrifice ritual which existed in all of the early myths, and was inserted into the bible to keep you in fear and subjugated to the elite, by inserting it in their playbook, the bible.




God wants some Law and Order in the world of men

and so there is a valuable price to pay for breaking the Law

[gripreaper]

So finally you agree with me. Neither did Enoch, or Elijah, or Yeshua, or me or YOU dies. You are an immortal soul and have reincarnated many times, and will continue to do so until the myths which you cling to are transmuted.

no i do not agree
you and i will die
Enoch and Elijah did not die but was taken up to God
Jesus did die and was resurrected

You can't have it both ways. Either you believe in death or you do not. Yeshua did not die. Elijah and Enoch did not die. Yeshua was brutally tortured, stabbed in the rib, hung on a cross, and he still said "Oh death, where is thy sting?" because he knew there IS NO DEATH and he came here to teach us that. I am not going to die and neither are you. That is just a fact. You'll keep reincarnating until you get this.




Like I said earlier, the Law is a construct of man, and tribunals are designed to keep you subjugated to the Rule of Law of man. God has no such man made notions.

we can make as many laws as we like, and we do, but God is the Final authority

Authoritarianism is a construct of man and the construct of Law, which is man made. God let's us grow and evolve at our own pace, and take as many lifetimes (incarnations) as we want. There is no judgment, and god is not authoritative. That is all man made.




Like I said earlier, my soul does not need saving. My soul is eternal, has always been god, and IS god. Why would god need to be saved?
satan made this same mistake

Satan is an archetype made by the elite Roman controllers to magnify your fears, and to explain the opposite polarity in the energetic electromagnetic spectrum, of which they wanted to sever the feminine aspect and force the patriarch on us. The whole idea that the archetype these controllers created exists as an entity is a lie, and the truth is that polarization and severing and divisiveness are inside of us, and we need only but go look in the mirror and change our outdated beliefs we have adopted from these elite controllers and the bible, and stand in our own power and truth.




after all Jesus is the only one who pinned our sins to the Cross

This is a pagan blood sacrifice ritual which existed in all of the early myths, and was inserted into the bible to keep you in fear and subjugated to the elite, by inserting it in their playbook, the bible.


God wants some Law and Order in the world of men and so there is a valuable price to pay for breaking the Law

Like I said earlier, the Law is a construct of man. You have free will, and can choose to be evil, and choose to pay the karma for those actions in subsequent lifetimes. All things are in balance, even though you can't see that from the limited perspective of one lifetime, shrouded in a belief structure perpetrated on you by the elite to subjugate and control you.

One day RedeZra, you will awaken though, as the dharma is assured an all sentient beings will return to source. Take as long as you like, without fear my dear friend. Let the fear go and step into your power. You will never go back, I promise. It will bring you peace and joy like you have never known before, and all of the beliefs will wash away and never return. It is very liberating!

[RedeZra]

You can't have it both ways. Either you believe in death or you do not. Yeshua did not die. Elijah and Enoch did not die. Yeshua was brutally tortured, stabbed in the rib, hung on a cross, and he still said "Oh death, where is thy sting?" because he knew there IS NO DEATH and he came here to teach us that. I am not going to die and neither are you. That is just a fact. You'll keep reincarnating until you get this.


of course our souls do not die

but i would not count on recycling or reincarnation as a matter of fact







we can make as many laws as we like, and we do, but God is the Final authority

Authoritarianism is a construct of man and the construct of Law, which is man made. God let's us grow and evolve at our own pace, and take as many lifetimes (incarnations) as we want. There is no judgment, and god is not authoritative. That is all man made.


i think there is no reincarnation

but a Divine order with Law and all





Satan is an archetype made by the elite Roman controllers to magnify your fears, and to explain the opposite polarity in the energetic electromagnetic spectrum, of which they wanted to sever the feminine aspect and force the patriarch on us.


satan is very real and is the one the ptb worship and serve





Like I said earlier, the Law is a construct of man. You have free will,and can choose to be evil, and choose to pay the karma for those actions in subsequent lifetimes.



the notion of karma and reincarnation makes a mockery of the Sacrifice of Christ

so i believe there is no such thing as karma and reincarnation


it's not possible to integrate eastern philosophies with the Gospel of Jesus Christ

so one of them is wrong


and i know Jesus is alive

[gripreaper]

I feel for you RedeZra. We will have to just agree to disagree. But I want you to know this from my heart, once you let go of the beliefs perpetrated in the bible, and embrace your own power within, you will be able to experience joy beyond your wildest imagination, and all fear of death and judgment vanishes. It is so beautiful and so liberating, I hope that one day you will embrace this my friend and be free.

Go on your path my friend. See you when you choose to return to source. I'll be waiting for you.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

it's not possible to integrate eastern philosophies with the Gospel of Jesus Christ

No, it is not possible for YOU to integrate eastern philosophies with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Your lack of being able to understand this, possibly stemming from your failure to grasp the eastern traditions themselves, does not make it so. In fact, there are schools of thought within Buddhism and Taoism that have a great understanding of the teachings of Christ. Some sects even hold the tradition that they were visited by Christ and still share what he had to say. Frankly, I find your narrow dogmatic interpretations to be an insult to Christ and an insult to God. You try to fit both into a little sack and label them according to your personal vision as if you could ever understand that vast divinity. Learn some humility. The world is bigger than that and so is God.




and i know Jesus is alive

So do I. And I am a Taoist. Your interpretation of the Christ is not the same as the Truth of the Christ.

(inhale........exhale..........)

Now for the rest of you (because I know Red will never entertain anything other than his own narrow view), consider the sacrifice story as the ultimate Tonglen practice. Karma has to be balanced. So try to see the crucifixion story as Christ balancing the karma of the whole of humanity to wipe the slate clean. This is no different than the idea of dying for our sins, is it? The Christ story makes perfect sense from this perspective.

[deridan]

for a long time i thought i could integrate eastern religion and philosophies with the Gospel of Jesus Christ

but it's not possible to integrate them


eastern religion is about enlightenment from kundalini snake or serpent spirit

and is not the same as salvation from the Holy spirit


enlightenment is about possession by the serpent spirit

while salvation is about the Holy spirit convicting correcting and guiding


and i have already posted testimonies to back this claim up

The religion of the hindus is the most ancient surviving religion. set up by aryans
if one hears about the tribe / kingdom of which Budda was part off, then one would see that it is close to these aryan groups.

while the tri-religion Islam/Judism/Christianity does not preach a structured message about reincarnation,...yet it is not ignored and more emphasis is given to final judgement.
The Philosopher Nietzsche puts it that this 'lie' was a good one, for it credited those under its system with a different physionogomy.


--if one wants to pick noodles about the systems, one would see that that which we call the 'Eastern system[buddism&hinduism]', dwarfs these of the tri-religion.
{rationally it is not the eastern system, that is merely its initial 'spread pond'}


i am for integration, though i am primarius christian, ..a root is still a root, but the tree is elegantly mixed...and the conversation and consciousness of the average christian disgusts me.

children should still learn to pray.... it is exercise for there spirits, an essential that cannot be done without

[gripreaper]

So do I. And I am a Taoist. Your interpretation of the Christ is not the same as the Truth of the Christ.

I break the whole universe down to energy, it's basic component. Then "Christ" consciousness, as I see it, is a level of righteousness (right use of energy) which can be attained. To become a christed being is to be open to the energies of the spirit, as the higher chakras are often referred to. The right use of energy is not something which is bestowed upon us based on some dogma, but a path we choose, to become more like a christed being, and to embrace the senses of the higher chakraas and not just the animalistic lower chakras driven by fear, anger and greed. Conversely these chakras when used properly transmute into grounding, life force and power, always passed through the primordial sound and healing of the heart energy tone, which is in all living things, connected to the inner voice of the throat chakra, the vision of the third eye, and the connected crown to the celestial realms.

Those who are shrouded in dogma of the tri-religions, as deridan has pointed out, just can't seem to get this. I don't know why.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Those who are shrouded in dogma of the tri-religions, as deridan has pointed out, just can't seem to get this. I don't know why.

Isn't it obvious? They have sublimated their own identity in favor of an externally imposed one. It is much easier (and far more comfortable) to accept the God without rather than find the God within. So much simpler to simply surrender and find the peace of submission to a master figure. The quest for self realization is far more difficult and painful.

Christ made it clear where he stood on the issue. The kingdom of Heaven is within you.

There is a reason that Buddhism says of the quest for enlightenenment that unless you desire enlightenment as a man with his head on fire desires a pond of water to stick his head into, don't do it. It's too hard.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

The religion of the hindus is the most ancient surviving religion.

Not to nit pick but (ok I am nitpicking, but forgive me) Hinduism and Buddhism both arose from Vedism, with Buddhism also having deep roots in Bon. Bon is still practiced in Nepal and Bhutan. Yoga (the practice, not the exercise) predates Hinduism with roots going deep into the Vedic period and we don't really know how far back it goes. Hinduism sort of naturally evolved out of Vedism, whereas Buddhism had revolutionary teachers that set the course periodically.

But the oldest religion on the planet award has to go to the shamanic tradition of the Australian Aborigines. That civilization is at least 50,000 years old and they have held their traditions through that entire time.

Sorry if I sound like I am lecturing. I don't mean to and I know I sound that way sometimes.

[RedeZra]

it's not possible to integrate eastern philosophies with the Gospel of Jesus Christ

No, it is not possible for YOU to integrate eastern philosophies with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Your lack of being able to understand this, possibly stemming from your failure to grasp the eastern traditions themselves, does not make it so.


no it's not possible to integrate them for anybody

not just me


why ?


because the Bible says we live once and Buddha says we live as long as it takes

because the Bible says Christ atoned for our sins while Buddha says karma burn


so you see it's not me

but the texts themselves

that make an integration of these two ways

an exercise in factual futility



i'm not saying choose Christ and drop Buddha

but it's not possible to integrate these two

one of them is wrong


and Jesus is alive ; )





Now for the rest of you (because I know Red will never entertain anything other than his own narrow view),


that is because the road is narrow

and few are they that find it ; )

[RedeZra]

for a long time i thought i could integrate eastern religion and philosophies with the Gospel of Jesus Christ

but it's not possible to integrate them




i am for integration, though i am primarius christian, ..a root is still a root, but the tree is elegantly mixed...and the conversation and consciousness of the average christian disgusts me.




both Christ and Buddha said a lot of nice things about right living

but that is just basic information


either we live once or we live many times

either we burn karma or Christ atoned for our sins


one of them is wrong

[RedeZra]

Isn't it obvious? They have sublimated their own identity in favor of an externally imposed one. It is much easier (and far more comfortable) to accept the God without rather than find the God within. So much simpler to simply surrender and find the peace of submission to a master figure. The quest for self realization is far more difficult and painful.

Christ made it clear where he stood on the issue. The kingdom of Heaven is within you.




Christ is the Creator

and He sends the Holy spirit

to dwell within those

who believe and obey Him


so it's not possible to enter the Kingdom of Heaven

without the Spirit of God within

[RedeZra]

The religion of the hindus is the most ancient surviving religion.

Not to nit pick but (ok I am nitpicking, but forgive me) Hinduism and Buddhism both arose from Vedism, with Buddhism also having deep roots in Bon. Bon is still practiced in Nepal and Bhutan.


all these old religions stem from Babylon

so it's not from God

but the Nephilim





That civilization is at least 50,000 years old and they have held their traditions through that entire time.


impossible

Adam lived just 6000 years ago

[Whiskey_Mystic]

There are many paths up the mountain. The only one wasting his time is the guy running around the bottom of the mountain telling everyone else that they are doing it wrong.

[RedeZra]

There are many paths up the mountain. The only one wasting his time is the guy running around the bottom of the mountain telling everyone else that they are doing it wrong.

there is only one path all the way to the top

and that is Jesus Christ


the rest are pretenders and wannabes

blind men with a following

[Fred Steeves]

There are many paths up the mountain. The only one wasting his time is the guy running around the bottom of the mountain telling everyone else that they are doing it wrong.

there is only one path all the way to the top

and that is Jesus Christ


the rest are pretenders and wannabes

blind men with a following

You know what RedeZra, I admire your spirit mate! You stick to your guns for better or for worse. The term cojones/chutzpa comes to mind my friend.

You of course know by now, and likely always have, that you're not going to win over any souls here... Yet you keep at it... Outstanding!

Just like me, when you finally begin burrowing down to the root of that nagging splinter in your mind, there's going to be hell to pay. http://www.bigtenfever.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif

Cheers,
Fred

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Here is my final word for this thread.

If there were a God
Who looked upon my life and saw that I had done good deeds my whole life and tried my best to help others,
If this God saw this and also saw that I had not accepted Jesus Christ as my Savior
Or not become a Christian or whatever
And this God condemned me to hell for eternity because I had not fulfilled that requirement
Which is exactly what the Christians claim God would do,
That's not a God I would worship in any case.
The very concept is ridiculous.
A more stupid foundation for a religion I cannot imagine.

May all beings be free from suffering.
May all beings be at peace.

[RedeZra]

There are many paths up the mountain. The only one wasting his time is the guy running around the bottom of the mountain telling everyone else that they are doing it wrong.

there is only one path all the way to the top

and that is Jesus Christ


the rest are pretenders and wannabes

blind men with a following

You know what RedeZra, I admire your spirit mate! You stick to your guns for better or for worse. The term cojones/chutzpa comes to mind my friend.

You of course know by now, and likely always have, that you're not going to win over any souls here... Yet you keep at it... Outstanding!

Just like me, when you finally begin burrowing down to the root of that nagging splinter in your mind, there's going to be hell to pay. http://www.bigtenfever.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif

Cheers,
Fred


thnx Fred ; )


i'm tearing down the idols

and if i find out that Christ doesn't stand up to my intense scrutiny

then i'll tear Him down as well


but so far He has met my high expectations and then some

i can't seem to find any faults with Him

[RedeZra]

Here is my final word for this thread.

If there were a God
Who looked upon my life and saw that I had done good deeds my whole life and tried my best to help others,
If this God saw this and also saw that I had not accepted Jesus Christ as my Savior
Or not become a Christian or whatever
And this God condemned me to hell for eternity because I had not fulfilled that requirement



righteous men make it

Jesus came to save the unrighteous


but what we think is righteous might miss the mark

so the advice is always to seek Jesus

[gripreaper]

The religion of the hindus is the most ancient surviving religion.

Not to nit pick but (ok I am nitpicking, but forgive me) Hinduism and Buddhism both arose from Vedism, with Buddhism also having deep roots in Bon. Bon is still practiced in Nepal and Bhutan.


all these old religions stem from Babylon

so it's not from God

but the Nephilim





That civilization is at least 50,000 years old and they have held their traditions through that entire time.


impossible

Adam lived just 6000 years ago

Why is this impossible? It's a proven FACT that homo sapiens were on the planet prior to the Adamu as told in Genesis 1. Even the bible, which you might realize by now is filled with errors and changed texts, but which you cling to so vehemently, says in Genesis chapter 1, verse 28 for Adam and Eve to RE-plenish the earth, which means RE RE RE RE plenish, NOT plenish.

There is other proof in the bible too about the FACT that the Adamu was just an experiment in hybrid engineering with the Son's of God who came from the heavens and took the daughters of men unto themselves and quarantined them in what was know as "the garden" while there were millions of humans on the planet already at the time.

So, your assertion that Adam and Eve were the first humans IS FALSE.

[bluestflame]

one life , many incarnations :)

[deridan]

....WHERE EXACTLY does the bible say we live once,.... or are you taking the catholic doctrine as being representative of 'our evangelical way[e.w. for those saying church doctrines mute,& by bible we live]'
...please provide verses, i'm not being spiteful.
(...my model would then be, reincarnations..several...all the way towards a 'final judgement' scenario, or atleast the staging before our soul no-longer reincarnates into a 3d world as we are all now present within)

second, once it comes to this integration story. Like Gripreaper's analogy that certain charkra points are unactivated.


I asked myself this,... buddists have a science concerning the human body soul spirit matrix,
why nothing similar in christianity.
THEN I came across Dalores Cannons book on Jesus and the Essenes.
TURNS OUT, charkras were known to the Essenes,...so one can say it is part of the most ancient mystic sciences,
for instance, the Essene Teacher of the Law, interviewed in past life regression said the exercise involved with charkras was very pertinent,...i.e. people should not get it wrong,

it would according to him, be the 8 we are familiar with, with the eighth being the crown chakra (where ministers lay there hands; and influx is received),
in addition, he adds a second one at the heart (nine in total), and says this one is only open in those with complete knowledge,
then at the knees an additional two, and me thinks for the hands (#) and feet (#in the Book of Jacob dealing with Out of Body Experiences, hand feet 'energy' is important for astral navigation, ..though i cannot be absolutely certain that the Essen teacher mentioned the feet one),...and he also mentioned one which is very dangerous to activate without proper knowledge, that being at the dorsal bottom part of the skull.


so christianity as it has grown under its first guise, that of the church, was only a patch work framework, needing ....
-end

[RedeZra]

That civilization is at least 50,000 years old and they have held their traditions through that entire time.


impossible

Adam lived just 6000 years ago




Why is this impossible? It's a proven FACT that homo sapiens were on the planet prior to the Adamu as told in Genesis 1. Even the bible, which you might realize by now is filled with errors and changed texts, but which you cling to so vehemently, says in Genesis chapter 1, verse 28 for Adam and Eve to RE-plenish the earth, which means RE RE RE RE plenish, NOT plenish.


the Hebrew term male means to fill complete consecrate

Then God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply; fill [male] the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth." - Genesis 1:28


humanity stem from Adam and Eve

and the Bible lists the whole genealogy

with line names age and all

from Adam to Jesus





There is other proof in the bible too about the FACT that the Adamu was just an experiment in hybrid engineering with the Son's of God who came from the heavens and took the daughters of men unto themselves and quarantined them in what was know as "the garden" while there were millions of humans on the planet already at the time.

So, your assertion that Adam and Eve were the first humans IS FALSE.


the sons of God or angels who were set and supposed to watch over humanity

begot hybrid children or Nephilim (the gods of old heroes the men of renown) with women

and so corrupted not only the human genome

but also genetically engineered plant and animal life

[RedeZra]

....WHERE EXACTLY does the bible say we live once,.... or are you taking the catholic doctrine as being representative of 'our evangelical way[e.w. for those saying church doctrines mute,& by bible we live]'


Scripture specifically states that the dead go to sheol which is an astral abode of the dead

and is the same as hades or underworld in the New Testament


there seems to be a schism in sheol hades or underworld

between the righteous and the unrighteous

and both are awaiting Final judgement


And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, - Hebrews 9:27






I asked myself this,... buddists have a science concerning the human body soul spirit matrix,
why nothing similar in christianity.
THEN I came across Dalores Cannons book on Jesus and the Essenes.
TURNS OUT, charkras were known to the Essenes,...so one can say it is part of the most ancient mystic sciences,
for instance, the Essene Teacher of the Law, interviewed in past life regression said the exercise involved with charkras was very pertinent,...i.e. people should not get it wrong,



in Christianity God saves heals provides etc

and so we are adviced to seek and ask God and nurture a living relationship with the Creator

and not ignore and neglect God by busying ourselves with the world and catering to our flesh

[deridan]

thanx, i know the bible about as good as anyone,
Hebrews verse {potentially} Paul, and as an epistle noted for its structuring of the 'rest of God' concept
I was hoping there was one from the Old Testament or Gospels,
[it must be remembered that the epistles were sort of in a way 'attack' documents designed to counter 'other spreading doctrine', especially those deemed to dilute the impact of a or the message as it spread then]

***still sticking to me flaws/floors then though.

,,,only silly instance i can pull is that were (i'd have to immerse myself again in it if i want to weight my words) the speak of John the Baptist to Jesus, that he is the soul of one of the old [fiery] prophets.
saying this, Jesus does not counter them on wrong doctrine

learnt this of the bible....silences also say something, a brush is merely a brush, even if done softly.
(there is the instance strange that when Jesus words the parable he uses the name Lazarus, Lazarus [not Mary of Bethany's brother] but a beggar Lazarus, and how IN THAT AFTER REALM (sheoul u speak of) he sits on Abrahams lap, how a rich man beyond the chasm who once abused him, asks first water, and having this denied, begs that his brothers be told repent there ways {& how this is not possible considering they won't listen to the law and the prophets nevermind a ghost of a dead man})

the main reason i guess, one would not want a structured doctrine on reincarnation is that eventually one would have people thinking like the Jainists that people reincarnate into animals, and all that crap.
in the psychological make-up of civilizations, the reincarnation doctrine where thriving as a doctrine towards the chandra[/mass] (and not to merely to the initiated), of these a philosopher said that they had a slightly lazier constitution.
THIS i would say. to any religion. number of positives and negatives are carried, [like good and bad soul habits], this is in an initial stage,...
but the point for us enlightened is to overcome the negs from our previous growth stage,... like getting rid of stilts for a tree, or like an old skin,....not merely carrying around o much skin cause one feels to defend from all points.
those who criticize religion too-much have obviously never developed personal conversation with the Creator, this is the point,...not conformity to a society who does not know what to think or whose thoughts are defended depending on what is erroneously invogue

[Beren]

those who criticize religion too-much have obviously never developed personal conversation with the Creator, this is the point,...not conformity to a society who does not know what to think or whose thoughts are defended depending on what is erroneously invogue

Deridan,

This is the exact point that I am trying and many including Red -to make.
Religion is God`s tool to bring those souls who are in deepest levels of ignorance out into the light.
Hence every religion has structure of people and doctrines .

All that is well for beginners and first few stages until person grows out of basic ignorance.

Then comes a point of decision for each soul ,
either a soul will finally leap off the ground and fly into Creator`s embrace and further knowledge and love and trust ,meaning to leave safe haven of religion and its structures and fly into God`s arms figuratively,
OR
a soul backs down and cling on to religion as safe have just like crybaby clings on mama`s skirt.

Every choice is always honored.
And ones who are crybabies are not in any way despicable.
Just need more time to evolve and grow.

Religion has its own purpose but being stuck in it is contra productive since basically it is limiting you at some point of your evolution into Christ`s image which is Creator`s image.
Again Christ wasn`t Jesus`s last name- that was and is his state of being.

[RedeZra]

,,,only silly instance i can pull is that were (i'd have to immerse myself again in it if i want to weight my words) the speak of John the Baptist to Jesus, that he is the soul of one of the old [fiery] prophets.
saying this, Jesus does not counter them on wrong doctrine




the ptb wants us to believe that we are the result of millions of years of slow evolution

but according to the Bible our first parents were created by the Trinity only 6000 years ago

so there is little or no time for reincarnation anyhow


we got this life


and the second person of the Trinity found it pertinent

to come and teach truths and atone for our sins

and free us from the vice and lies of the devil



Now this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, "Who are you?"

He confessed, and did not deny, but confessed, "I am not the Christ."

And they asked him, "What then? Are you Elijah?" He said, "I am not." "Are you the Prophet?" And he answered, "No."

Then they said to him, "Who are you, that we may give an answer to those who sent us? What do you say about yourself?"

He said: "I [am] 'The voice of one crying in the wilderness: "Make straight the way of the LORD," ' [fn] as the prophet Isaiah said." - John 1:19-23

[nosgib]

Actually I have more to add to the Old Testament, it's just
that the Establishment does not want the additions Public.
Why?, I prove creation and they then have also to conform to a new way of thinking hence they don't have the control that they normally have......Anyway.
A cure for Cancer
N60 www.revelations.iinet.net.au
The Record extrapolates on "how" and "why" I have it.
ie Proof of God and Creation.

[RedeZra]

in the very first Bible verse elohim or God is the Trinity who created several heavens and the earth

so the Trinity is the Creator


In the beginning God [elohim] created the heavens [shamayim] and the earth. - Genesis 1:1


God is not Three but One in Three

the Trinity

so be it

[gripreaper]

in the very first Bible verse elohim or God is the Trinity

Nope. Elohim translates to mean "many gods". The idea of one god didn't come into existence until the 18th dynasty of Egypt under Akenaten. Prior to that, under the gnostic traditions, it was CLEARLY understood that there were may god's, many energetic prisms of the rainbow, and many archetypes for the many gods.

[observer]

Click-on forwarding arrow to see content of comment in another thread:

[....snip]

[RedeZra]

in the very first Bible verse elohim or God is the Trinity

Nope. Elohim translates to mean "many gods".


elohim is plural in form

and denote both God god and gods

depending on the verb in the verse

singular signifies God or god

while plural posits gods


so there are both God and gods

and the Bible affirms this

as God also created gods

who are angels or spirits


gods or angels or spirits are created and cannot create


and in the verse above

the Hebrew verb bara for created

points to elohim as God the Creator

who is Three in One or the Trinity



in the New Testament Jesus confirms the Reality of the Trinity

God the Father God the Son and God the Spirit


One God in Three Personages


i don't understand it but so it is



some might see this as

we got not One but Three tyrants

as God don't act alone lol

[deridan]

Actually I have more to add to the Old Testament, it's just
that the Establishment does not want the additions Public.
Why?, I prove creation and they then have also to conform to a new way of thinking hence they don't have the control that they normally have......Anyway.
A cure for Cancer
N60 www.revelations.iinet.net.au
The Record extrapolates on "how" and "why" I have it.
ie Proof of God and Creation.

Interesting webpage,.......but where do they get there material from.
only OT books i know are omitted are those of Enoch. the apocryphal book of Esdras is also a book i believe christians should make a point to read, as it has prophetic revelations of Jesus (great material all round).

Got this from Convoluted Universe (Dalores Canon):
"Your brain is the vibrational centre of your body. And there is a focus of these vibration, called the solar plexus. And that's like a lens focusing light. The solar plexus focuses these vibrations and then sends them out again to all parts of the body, and out into your aura to keep things balanced. That is why when you meditate and open yourself up to absorb vibrations to replenish your vibrations, you should picture them entering through the top of your heand and then going down to your solar plexus. So that the solar plexus can spread these vibrations out to your body where they are needed so that all will be in balance" :..brenda..under trance, pg446 of the web-version.

we learnt that the in-filling of the Holy Ghost is in the solar plexus region.
From the pages which precede this, my confidence is baccked that you don't have to chuck out the 'visualizations / energy centres' which the eastern religions teaches us to see.
it to me, is part of the illuminati agenda to keep us ignoran=t and separated from that which would benefit us (part of the dumbing down agenda)

[Billy]

Energy is energy, life force is life force, and spirit is spirit, ALL THE SAME. The distinction is how you gather it, how you hold it, and how you intention it and use it.


not by might not by power not by energy nor by force

but by My Spirit says God Almighty

Uh, I'm pretty sure the creator of the universe never said this. That is an interpretation of the elite oligarchs and their plagiarized and bastardized bible.


i can inform you that God is the inspiration and the protector of the Bible


so we don't have to listen to men for understanding

we just got to open the Book and read

Hi Red, I can agree that God is the inspiration of the words that he gave to his disciples to be written down, With the warning that nothing is to be taken away or added.
But there lies the problem Red, Because very important words and paragraphs were ommited when Rome the beast created the bible.

For example in the Book of Revelations there are no less than 8 missing chapters from the original Visions of John. very important chapters. That cover such things as.

Critical Revelation text is revealed after 1,500 years of suppression by church authorities. Spirit intervenes once again to redirect humanity's spiritual evolution by restoring eight of the "missing" chapters of the Book of Revelation over the heads of the church hierarchy to those who will honor and disseminate this indispensable wisdom without changing the "word".

There have been numerous recent examples of direct spirit intervention on modern communication technology and the placement of this text direct onto a word processor screen without human agency is a graphic illustration of this new means by which humans and spirit will work together in the future. The most important teachings of the text include: The definition and timing of the second coming of the Christ Consciousness and how It emerges within open and loving human hearts.

Exposure of the "false priests" within the worlds religions who teach the return of an individual "savior" and still preach division.

Restoration of the divine feminine principle focused on Gaia (our planet) identified as "the mother of creation".

Recognition of reincarnation as the basic structure of human spiritual evolution and the illusion of "death".

" Channeling". The Inter-dimensional communication with spirit realms authenticated.

Explanation of the enigmatic role of the "144,000." They are the minimum number of spiritually aware humans who incarnated specifically to create a "critical mass" capable of raising all the human consciousness that chooses to evolve.

The "last days" explained as the end of 3rd dimensional reality and NOT the destruction of the planet.

Restoring balance of the male-female sexual polarity and how sharing love leads to 4th dimensional consciousness.

Clarification of the separation of the "wheat from the chaff", meaning that human consciousness will now be divided between those who LOVE or FEAR in accordance with individual preparation and free choice.

Our individual ascension of consciousness is achieved only by expressing unconditional love, sharing , forgiveness and non-judgment.

You can read the ommited chapters here.
http://www.wholisticworldvision.org/rev3.html

Please read the ommited chapters before you comment Red.

EDIT, Adding part quote from Introduction link

The cause of the mystery surrounding Second Coming, as is so often the case in matters of distorted Christian theology, lies at the hands of those who compiled the various books comprising the 'authorised' version of the bible. Powerful religious bodies and governments that cynically used the bible as a political tool of mess disempowerment. together with generations of 'interpreters', considered certain works to be unsuitable for general circulation. Thus many scrolls were withdrawn and secreted by the church. At the same time, and unfortunately for Christianity, 'unauthorised' copies of the same manuscripts were also hidden by religious sects defying the censorship of the central authority in Rome.

In recent years, many such ancient texts have come to light in the sands and caves of the Middle East. Yet invariably they have fallen into the very hands that have most to lose if the truth they contain were to be revealed. In the exceptionally few cases, including this work, where religious interference has been specifically prevented from altering, suppressing and even destroying them, they have been indispensable in highlighting serious discrepancies in Christian teaching. As the closely-guarded secrets of humanity's spiritual heritage and potential as Divine Beings and guardians of this planet are now revealed, the Holy Word assumes an altogether different connotation.

The Third Book of the Apocalypse is such a document, and it is presented here unabridged with guidance notes in its first ever English translation. Though perhaps unorthodox in its method of restoration, we can at least now understand why extraordinary measures were justified to ensure that this text too did not fall into the hands of those who would once more dishonour it and deprive humanity of its priceless wisdom. The stranglehold of Christian suppression and distortion simply HAD to be broken by whatever means for no less reason than the very survival of the planet and our race. Knowing this, we are advised to quickly absorb and act upon the critical and timely information it contains - much of which is anyway all too obvious to the detached observer of our collapsing world - rather than waste the little time now left to us in arguing about its derivation and authenticity.

This is the third book of John's Revelation vision long suspected to have gone 'missing'. The first two hooks known as the Judgement of the Jews and the Judgement of the Gentiles comprise the 21 chapters of the 'authorised' biblical version. All that remains, in heavily abridged form, of the third book is chapter 22. A detailed comparison between Ch 8 of the third book and CH 22 in the bible, which should he identical, is instructive. It shows not only glaring omissions, but also proves that the concluding chapter of the vision was deliberately brought forward to the end of book two, thereby disguising the withdrawal of the missing chapters and making the work appear complete. With the return of this text, greater sense can once more be made of the whole book of Revelation.

The purpose of the Apocalypse text was to prophesy the timing of Second Coming, the form it would take and to describe the conditions prevailing on Earth at the time of that event. It also summarises, as simply as possible, those aspects of the original vision contained in the first two books that are relevant to the present day. Careful study and comparison between the different texts is recommended, now that new light has been thrown on the many enigmas contained in the much amended and confusing authorised version of Revelations.

Although it was freely circulated in the early centuries of Christianity, the third book is understood to have been withdrawn by the Roman church in the 6th century and relegated to the Vatican library. Other copies have surfaced in the Middle East, the most recent being among the Dead Sea Scrolls discoveries, but they were yet again destroyed or suppressed by the religious bodies conveniently given charge over them. Perhaps this is hardly surprising considering its contents! It is in fact a time bomb under the Christian church that will finally remove the last vestiges of its credibility as a spiritual authority. The church long ago became an oppressive and divisive political forum, as well as a multinational commercial empire and now is the appointed time for its exposure.

Peace

[heyokah]

Click-on forwarding arrow to see content of comment in another thread:

[....snip]

Just for the record Red, this video is what observer was pointing at and well worth watching.

Wishing you love and courage.


WD0eSqFJ7J4

[Billy]

Here are more ommited and corrupted passages in the Bible.

You can find them here.

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/vaticanus.html

Quote:
Most of the over 5000 New Testament differences between the King James Bible and modern Bible versions like the NASB, NIV, RSV, Living Bible, and others, are the result of mainly two manuscripts which allegedly date to around 350 AD called Sinaiticus (Aleph) and Vaticanus (B).

Dean John William Burgon, personally collated the Sinaiticus and Vaticanus manuscripts. In his book, "The Revision Revised", which he wrote in 1881, he gives his opinion and lists undeniable facts about what these two manuscripts say.

Mr. Burgon states on page 11; "Singular to relate Vaticanus and Aleph have within the last 20 years established a tyrannical ascendance over the imagination of the Critics, which can only be fitly spoken of as a blind superstition. It matters nothing that they are discovered on careful scrutiny to differ essentially, not only from ninety-nine out of a hundred of the whole body of extant MSS. besides, but even from one another. In the gospels alone B (Vaticanus) is found to omit at least 2877 words: to add 536, to substitute, 935; to transpose, 2098: to modify 1132 (in all 7578): - the corresponding figures for Aleph being 3455 omitted, 839 added, 1114 substitued, 2299 transposed, 1265 modified (in all 8972). And be it remembered that the omissions, additions, substitutions, transpositions, and modifications, are by no means the same in both. It is in fact easier to find two consecutive verses in which these two mss. differ the one from the other, than two consecutive verses in which they entirely agree."

On page 319 of he remarks, "In the Gospels alone Vaticanus has 589 readings quite peculiar to itself, affecting 858 words while Aleph has 1460 such readings, afecting 2640 words."

The purpose of this article is to give you just a few of many examples of how contradictory and confusing these two "oldest and best" manuscripts really are when contrasted with the Traditional Greek Text that underlies the King James Bible of 1611. Literally thousands of words have been omitted from the KJB text primarily on the basis of Aleph or B, yet the modern versions follow no discernable or logical pattern as to when they decide to include or exclude readings from one or the other

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/vaticanus.html

peace

[RedeZra]

Click-on forwarding arrow to see content of comment in another thread:

[....snip]

Just for the record Red, this video is what observer was pointing at and well worth watching.

Wishing you love and courage.




thnx and yes i've seen it


no doubt Christianity had to compromise and incorporate pagan customs like christmas and symbols to ease the transition from persecuted sect til Roman state religion

but we must not loose sight of the most important thing with Christianity

Jesus Christ

who is not dead but alive




and the Arch of Constantine is mostly made up from older artworks

like the Conquest of Dacia by Trajan

[RedeZra]

i can inform you that God is the inspiration and the protector of the Bible

so we don't have to listen to men for understanding

we just got to open the Book and read


Hi Red, I can agree that God is the inspiration of the words that he gave to his disciples to be written down, With the warning that nothing is to be taken away or added.
But there lies the problem Red, Because very important words and paragraphs were ommited when Rome the beast created the bible.




we got a lot of denominations based on the Bible so i don't think we need any more confusion in the mix

besides it is not about the Bible

but Jesus Christ the Living God


it doesn't help us if the Bible is true or not

it's all about relationship with God

[RedeZra]

humans share the breath of life with all animals

does that make us Divine ?

no of course not


we got a spark from God

but so do all things

else they would not exist


we are not God

not even gods

but human beings


with a huge problem

separation from God


we don't even know God

that's the sorry state we're in

[Billy]

[QUOTE=RedeZra;496256]
i can inform you that God is the inspiration and the protector of the Bible

so we don't have to listen to men for understanding

we just got to open the Book and read


Hi Red, I can agree that God is the inspiration of the words that he gave to his disciples to be written down, With the warning that nothing is to be taken away or added.
But there lies the problem Red, Because very important words and paragraphs were ommited when Rome the beast created the bible.





we got a lot of denominations based on the Bible so i don't think we need any more confusion in the mix

besides it is not about the Bible

Hi Red, according to the title of the thread and the OP, " Let the bible speak" and many of your comments and biblical quotes in this thread, One of your latest comments was that God was the protector of the bible, this thread is all about the bible. You would rather read the corrupted lie created by man that the true revelation given through John.

Truth helps expand your wisdom and knowledge and sets you free, Truth will only cause confusion if your mind is closed to the truth my friend.



but Jesus Christ the Living God


it doesn't help us if the Bible is true or not

it's all about relationship with God

Yes i am pleased to hear you say this Red. congratulations, In this expression i would say you have moved on.

Have a blessed day.

[Billy]

humans share the breath of life with all animals

does that make us Divine ?

no of course not


we got a spark from God

but so do all things

else they would not exist


we are not God

not even gods

but human beings
You also will do what i do, and even greater things, The Kingdom of God is within you,



with a huge problem

separation from God


we don't even know God

that's the sorry state we're in

There is only the illusion of seperation Red, The problem/sorry state is believing in the great illusion of seperation/division as a reality.
Having the spark of the divine creator within us, We are all one, connected as divine beings.

peace

[greybeard]

What puzzles me is that quite a few Christian religons seem to focus much more on the Old Testiment and Revelations than on the word of Jesus via the Apostles--- they atleast were there and got the teaching first hand.
Seems to me that Christianity would be better served by staying soley with the Love and Teaching of Christ.
The Father and I are One--- that is One without a second--- Non-Duality.
As promised we can become One with the Father and that is exactly the same end result as in Vedic teaching--- merge with God---no individual self --awareness remaining.
Fundamenatilism seems to imply God is out there in Heaven--- forgetting that Christ said The Kingdom is within.
We are in Gods image which in essence is formless.
Look under a stone and you will find me there --Omni present = Non location.
The enlightened sages have that experience and some dual located-- Padre Peo was experienced in different places same time so was Ramana Maharshi
The Truth is eternal and was known experienced and taught long before the birth of Jesus.
Even logic would say that God would not have left us in ignorance till the birth of Jesus.
The Truth and therfore God's Love has allways been available to ernest seekers, not just Christians.

Chris

[greybeard]

Be still and know that I am God.
It is helpful to meditate deeply on that.

We are all used to saying I--- its a statment of what we are.
am, is now present tense which is on going eternal.

Stillness is without movment, silent, awareness.
So in essence we are in His form, identical with God --- who is One without a second--- therfore we can not exist seperate from God we never were never could be seperate.
The enlightened say it can not be spoken of beause the moment that state is spken of the listener makes a concept of it---it is not a concept but a direct reality a condition a state for those in it.
In India it is called God realzation and the sage will truthfully say "I am the totality, all of it" ie One without a second. God manifest.
The state is formless form both and neither--- the mind cant get that--- it seperates---ie it must be one thing or another---duality--- its not duality its non-duality--it ecompasses the whole and is the whole yet it is no-thing.

Chris

[observer]

....snip


....snip

Both comments are very good points, Chris.

At the moment one realizes the god of the Old Testament, Yahweh/Jehovah, IS NOT the God of Unconditional Love, one begins to discover "The One True God" (spoken of continuously by Yeshua Ben Joseph) is the same God you are referring to from more ancient Buddhist text - even more ancient than the Bible.

This Truth is never more apparent than in John 8:44 (KJV), when while speaking to the Pharisee and Sadducee Priests at the Temple in Jerusalem, Yashu said:
"44. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

[Please Note: Throughout the New Testament, the editors of Yashu's Word, while creating the fictional character, Jesus, included within their edit the fact that Yashu continuously refers to "The One True God" as his "Father in Heaven".]

For those members who want to learn about the words Yeshua ben Joseph REALLY spoke, please visit this website:

http://www.essenes.net/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=117

I am not underwriting this group, nor am I a member. They have done an excellent job of researching the Nag Hammadi Library and the contemporary Manichaean Text. (contemporary to the creation of the New Testament)

That which the Roman Empire did to the teachings of both Yashu and Mani, when the Empire created the fictional entity, Jesus, was the real heresy....

[RedeZra]

we got a lot of denominations based on the Bible so i don't think we need any more confusion in the mix

besides it is not about the Bible


Hi Red, according to the title of the thread and the OP, " Let the bible speak" and many of your comments and biblical quotes in this thread, One of your latest comments was that God was the protector of the bible, this thread is all about the bible. You would rather read the corrupted lie created by man that the true revelation given through John.


hi Billyji

yes there is a testimony from a woman who met Jesus where He said to her



you don't believe My words the Bible

you don't trust the translation

you're afraid that something was lost in the translation


it's My responsibility as God to protect My words for you





i'm sure God is able to do anything

but the problem is we don't trust Jesus is God

and so we pay no attention to all the thousands of testimonies about Him

but instead listen to men who might serve the other guy

who deceives the whole world

[RedeZra]

Even logic would say that God would not have left us in ignorance till the birth of Jesus.
The Truth and therfore God's Love has allways been available to ernest seekers, not just Christians.



that is true

but why were our old cultures so into human sacrifice and fertility rites

or sex and death


someone twisted the truths of God since the beginning







The Father and I are One--- that is One without a second--- Non-Duality.
As promised we can become One with the Father and that is exactly the same end result as in Vedic teaching--- merge with God---no individual self --awareness remaining.
Fundamenatilism seems to imply God is out there in Heaven--- forgetting that Christ said The Kingdom is within.
We are in Gods image which in essence is formless.


in Christianity we don't loose our form

we don't vanish into God

but share the Spirit of God

in our own glorified bodies

just like Jesus



it is sin

which separates us from the Spirit of God

but since the Sacrifice of Jesus

we got a golden oppurtunity

to ask Him for Mercy and Forgiveness



Adam and Eve were made in the Image of God

but again sin separates us from the Spirit of God






Fundamenatilism seems to imply God is out there in Heaven--- forgetting that Christ said The Kingdom is within.


in Christianity there is both Heaven and hell

and yes God is able to have a Form in Heaven


what Christ ment with the Kingdom of Heaven is within

is that our thoughts words and deeds

make Heaven or hell

[RedeZra]

At the moment one realizes the god of the Old Testament, Yahweh/Jehovah, IS NOT the God of Unconditional Love, one begins to discover "The One True God" (spoken of continuously by Yashuah Ben Joseph) is the same God you are referring to from more ancient Buddhist text - even more ancient than the Bible.




there is no God of unconditional love

only snake sweet lies about it


this lie will send most of us into hell


as we will be held accountable

for everything we have done


so seek the Mercy of Jesus before Judgement

[RedeZra]

The enlightened say it can not be spoken of beause the moment that state is spken of the listener makes a concept of it---it is not a concept but a direct reality a condition a state for those in it.
In India it is called God realzation and the sage will truthfully say "I am the totality, all of it" ie One without a second. God manifest.
The state is formless form both and neither--- the mind cant get that--- it seperates---ie it must be one thing or another---duality--- its not duality its non-duality--it ecompasses the whole and is the whole yet it is no-thing.




eastern enlightenment is perhaps a state of being possessed by the serpent spirit


i know shocking

but i posted some testimonies about this


we have not been taught the existence and powers of spirits

and so we have little or no clue of what we're dealing with

[greybeard]

The enlightened say it can not be spoken of beause the moment that state is spken of the listener makes a concept of it---it is not a concept but a direct reality a condition a state for those in it.
In India it is called God realzation and the sage will truthfully say "I am the totality, all of it" ie One without a second. God manifest.
The state is formless form both and neither--- the mind cant get that--- it seperates---ie it must be one thing or another---duality--- its not duality its non-duality--it ecompasses the whole and is the whole yet it is no-thing.




eastern enlightenment is perhaps a state of being possessed by the serpent spirit


i know shocking

but i posted some testimonies about this


we have not been taught the existence and powers of spirits

and so we have little or no clue of what we're dealing with

Dear Redezra
testimonies --- you are taking a few people words and opinions against thousands of years of spiritual experience, linage, tradition.
No enlightened sage ever condoned or sugested animal sacrifice or anykind of violence.
The love and compassion shines out of them.
By their fruit you shall know them.
The devil is not capable of love and compassion.
The Old testiment is full of violence and sacrifice and that is totally contrary to the word of Jesus.

Did Jesus say or not say--- "The Father and I are one"?
One is one in any language.

Then along came the clever people who put all kind of complex thoughts on the form of Jesus after the reserection.
Yes ofcourse He took on form to be seen--- the average person would not see anything other than what was presented.
They, the experts, explain away many of Jesus teachings.

Here is the paradox (not understood by the mind) The enlightened see the teacher and the taught as the same--- they see Gods eyes looking back at them through all others eyes-- they see Divinity shining out of every leaf, twig, tree, They see it distinct but one.

Chris

[Beren]

Very good discussion!

I am glad that here on this thread we`ve past a point of blunt insults of ones who are disagreeing with others.

Truth is one. Truth is Love, Truth is God`s word. God`s word is everything God desire. Everything that God desire is to express itself on myriad of ways.

We cannot limit God`s way of expression.

Jesus stood against the pharisees and scribes of that time and essentially of any time because they were vigorously holding to the written word.No matter who wrote it.
Same is today.

Jesus knew all the written words and owned them.
Why and how?
He and Father are were and will be one.

So when you know all there is no point of holding to a written text of any possible kind.
You are God`s word if you own it.
You and God are one hence God speaks through you on the same frequency.

It doesn`t matter to God who did what, only thing that matters is your next thought and will it be positive or negative and its results.

What would any of us say if Jesus materialize right now and right here in everyone`s room while we type this and read this -all in the same time on various locations?

Will we say :" Oh Jesus but we are sticking to your words!!!" But while sticking to the words of any author we forget to actually live the Christ`s person in us.
That`s why Jesus was firm with pharisees and others to show them that they have to actually live life fully Christed - not dogmatic.

Many refuse because they are glued to their habits and lives.
That`s like you are taking out your kid from elementary school to high school and the kid scream NO! I want to STAY in elementary since this is the best!
And then bullying other kids who want to leave elementary by threatening them with fear and stuff.

Heaven, hell - I don`t give a damn about them since their very existence depends upon ME.
I decide will I live in heaven or hell hence they do not exist FOR ME until I decide what I want to be next.

It`s wise to be in heaven in all forms than to live the hell.
It`s not healthy and brings a lot of wrinkles :)

Bible - the one how it is today or the hidden one is great tool.
Just some don`t know how to use it .

But if you don`t know how to use it ,learn or leave it. Tool isn`t bad because you don`t know how to use it.

I suggest that we move this discussion into higher form.
Let us leave who is right and wrong about paragraphs ,translations and rest. Let us see the practical worth of Bible and all of its translations.

God will not care about the tool , since there are plenty of various tools.
God cares about us and moving forward.

[RedeZra]

eastern enlightenment is perhaps a state of being possessed by the serpent spirit



Dear Redezra
testimonies --- you are taking a few people words and opinions against thousands of years of spiritual experience, linage, tradition.



yes Chris spiritual experience is experience with spirits

also God is Spirit

so how would we know if our experience is from Spirit or spirits


eastern enlightenment is linked to kundalini shakti or serpent spirit

but is this spirit God or just a wannabe God spirit


we know that the so-called enlightened call themselves God

but are they really

[RedeZra]

Jesus stood against the pharisees and scribes of that time and essentially of any time because they were vigorously holding to the written word.No matter who wrote it.
Same is today.



yes but beware of the yeast of the Pharisees


they knew the Torah or Instuction of God by heart and still they ended up crucifying the Son of God

lol it's no laughing matter


but they missed the Word

as they did not trust the written word


same today

[Beren]

Jesus stood against the pharisees and scribes of that time and essentially of any time because they were vigorously holding to the written word.No matter who wrote it.
Same is today.







yes but beware of the yeast of the Pharisees


they knew the Torah or Instuction of God by heart and still they ended up crucifying the Son of God

lol it's no laughing matter


but they missed the Word

as they did not trust the written word


same today

Yes.

Their yeast is ever present as long as ego commands person.
Hence Greybeard`s thread as a good example how to tackle the ego and grow in soul and spirit.

[observer]

At the moment one realizes the god of the Old Testament, Yahweh/Jehovah, IS NOT the God of Unconditional Love, one begins to discover "The One True God" (spoken of continuously by Yeshua Ben Joseph) is the same God you are referring to from more ancient Buddhist text - even more ancient than the Bible.




there is no God of unconditional love

only snake sweet lies about it


this lie will send most of us into hell


as we will be held accountable

for everything we have done


so seek the Mercy of Jesus before Judgement

You see, Red, this is exactly the reason why so many members have a problem with your own particular interpretation of scripture.

This "eternal damnation" doctrine you subscribe to has nothing to do with what Yeshua ben Joseph taught. Your continuing insistence that those who don't subscribe to your version of God will burn in some sort of eternal hell is offensive to those who are seeking an intelligent debate, and violates the rules of this forum.

You have been given the necessary links to pursue the true message of Yeshua. A message that was unearthed in 1945, unmolested after nearly two thousand years buried in the desert.

The dogma you represent is the obscene doctrine of an empire bent on controlling the Mass of Humanity. It is the agenda of hyperdimensional archons who have continuously controlled the human condition here in this particular reality.

Just as a point of reference, one of translations of the Greek word agape (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agap%C4%93), is Unconditional Love. There are several Greek words that express the meaning of Love, but the earliest Greek versions of the New Testament used the word "agape" where it applied to the Love of God. This gives significant meaning to the understanding of Unconditional Love.

"For God so loved [agapao] the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
—John 3:16, KJV

The reason you don't find the concept of a God of Unconditional Love in your fundamentalist Christian version of scripture is due to the nearly two thousand years of editing-out this concept in lieu of the false doctrine of Trinity Christianity.

A God of Unconditional Love is inconsistent with the God of the Old Testament - an unforgiving God of vengeance.... blood sacrifice.... and vanity.


There is no eternal damnation.

God.... at least the spirit of God that fills my soul, is Unconditional Love.

Take a few lessons in this concept, and go research (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/nag_hammadi/contents.htm)what Yeshua ben Joseph was really telling us....

[RedeZra]

there is no God of unconditional love

only snake sweet lies about it


this lie will send most of us into hell



You see, Red, this is exactly the reason why so many members have a problem with your own particular interpretation of scripture.

This "eternal damnation" doctrine you subscribe to has nothing to do with what Yeshua ben Joseph taught. Your continuing insistence that those who don't subscribe to your version of God will burn in some sort of eternal hell is offensive to those who are seeking an intelligent debate, and violates the rules of this forum.




i can assure you that i don't like the sound smell nor prospect of hell

but i believe the Bible got it right

that there is a special place for devils evil and demons


it makes perfect sense to me that there is a place prepared for those of us who choose to do evil

and forsake the forgiveness of Jesus


it is said that the road to Heaven is narrow

and few are they that find it


well how few ?

and where do they go who don't find the way

[SKIBADABOMSKI]

Being pulled backwards is such a drag.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oOPBAABzco



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI7VE6t8GD0&feature=fvwrel

[RedeZra]

here is a Christian man who had a heart attack and went to hell

for some reason Jesus took mercy on him


wHBgT2lmHyQ

[heyokah]

Being pulled backwards is such a drag.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oOPBAABzco



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI7VE6t8GD0&feature=fvwrel

Poor brainwashed children. I think this is child abuse!
They are screaming as if they are possessed.

No, there is no love in those performances at all. God is not there.
At least not MY god....

[heyokah]

here is a Christian man who had a heart attack and went to hell

for some reason Jesus took mercy on him

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHBgT2lmHyQ

Dear Red,

I think it depends on one's own state of mind at the very moment of death, whether one will 'experience' heaven or hell.
If one dies in pain, anger, hate or fear and one is not properly prepared for death, one will find oneself in 'a hell of a pain, hate, anger or fear' at the other side. So in one's own personally created hell.

Once you can see yourself in that hell as a spectator, you can decide, at any moment, to leave that personal hell and go to other realms of quiet or light.

You can be told to go back to 'your life', because it's not your time yet and you still have a lot to do.
And believe me when I tell you that you can feel more sorry to go back to that life, however beautiful that was, than to stay on the other side, once you have been drawn, or you have chosen to go, towards the light.

So what does "Jesus' mercy" mean other than "you first have to finish your earthly job and come back later"

I know. I have been there.....

[deridan]

as concerning the violence in the OT, (shared by christians and judics), considering too, that the Quran has violence,

do the Hindu texts not also contain violence..... i know that ur primary person there had many incarnations, & in one of those he was a warrior, ....and that for the future apparently one incarnation of Him remains (with the name title He'll take with tasks associated there-with)...

that would leave the only religion without violence Buddhism.(but that is a contemplative text).


when it comes to the violence part (and the sacrifice part which is intertwined with the law), i prefer the Kabalist attitude,
that the events do not represent something in-themselves, but represent an intrinsic spiritual attitude.
that within your spiritual attitude one does not allow for mixing, (that is conquering or inheriting a part, there is complete extermination of that which has occupied it before ..which had a corrupt attitude)

[Billy]

eastern enlightenment is perhaps a state of being possessed by the serpent spirit


i know shocking

but i posted some testimonies about this


we have not been taught the existence and powers of spirits

and so we have little or no clue of what we're dealing with

Red you provide other peoples testimonies as evidence. Those testimonies are personal experiences only and are not evidence for anything or anyone.

I also have experienced personal testimonies with Jesus and his mother Mary, Bosnia 1985, What was given to me was that Quote:"in God there is no religion, that religion is manmade and brings division, In God there is no division"

My experiences with my brother Jesus and his Mother Mary also led me through their divine intervention to embrace and experience Hinduism, Which again led to another personal experience in jan 2005 in India two weeks after the Tsunami. You can read part of my experiences here. http://goldring.wetpaint.com/page/Mother+Mary+~+by+Billy

But all testimonies are not evidence, they are personal experiences for the soul concerned. They do not confirm anything. So now i am curious to know, would you quote my experience in saying " In God there is no Religion, Religion is manmade and brings Division. In God there is no Division" Or would you ignore this testimony as it does not confirm your own belief system that you have chosen to follow.

And to add a reminder that was disgussed earlier in this thread, Jesus embraced hinduism and Bhuddism, There is documented evidence of this which you choose to ignore Red.

Peace

[RedeZra]

Dear Red,

I think it depends on ones own state of mind at the very moment of death, whether one will 'experience' heaven or hell.
If one dies in pain, anger, hate or fear and one is not properly prepared for death, one will find oneself in 'a hell of a pain, hate, anger or fear' at the other side. So in ones own personally created hell.




hey Heyokah


i don't know if you took the time

to watch the very short clip posted above


but this man died and went to hell

and he is a Christian


so being a Christian is no fireproof certificate


the whole world is deceived and we have been living a lie

hell is packed

[RedeZra]

eastern enlightenment is perhaps a state of being possessed by the serpent spirit




Red you provide other peoples testimonies as evidence. Those testimonies are personal experiences only and are not evidence for anything or anyone.


when did testimonies not become evidence ?

witnesses are not only used in our courts of law

but was an important part of the judicial system in the Bible





" In God there is no Religion, Religion is manmade and brings Division. In God there is no Division" Or would you ignore this testimony as it does not confirm your own belief system that you have chosen to follow.

And to add a reminder that was disgussed earlier in this thread, Jesus embraced hinduism and Bhuddism, There is documented evidence of this which you choose to ignore Red.




sure i believe it is not about religion but relationship

so no need to embrace Hinduism and Buddhism

it's all about Jesus

[heyokah]

Dear Red,

I think it depends on one's own state of mind at the very moment of death, whether one will 'experience' heaven or hell.
If one dies in pain, anger, hate or fear and one is not properly prepared for death, one will find oneself in 'a hell of a pain, hate, anger or fear' at the other side. So in one's own personally created hell.




hey Heyokah


i don't know if you took the time

to watch the very short clip posted above


but this man died and went to hell

and he is a Christian


so being a Christian is no fireproof certificate


the whole world is deceived and we have been living a lie

hell is packed

I was brought up without religion, with much love, compassion and a lot of common sense.
I'm sure Jesus would have loved me if he had met me.

During a coma of 3 weeks, I saw what I think was hell, without experiencing it, as I choose to be an observer.
And I saw what I think was heaven, which I choose to experience.

As I told you, you can create your own hell when time is there.

Packed or non-packed

You can also choose for heaven.

[RedeZra]

so being a Christian is no fireproof certificate




I was brought up without religion, with much of love, compassion and a lot of comman sense.
I'm sure Jesus would have loved me if he had met me.

During a coma of 3 weeks, I saw what I think was hell, without experiencing it, as I choose to be an observer.
And I saw what I think was heaven, which I choose to experience.

As I told you, you can create your own hell when time is there.




perhaps Jesus gave you a vision

He is God you know


and He says in the Good book

if you love Me then you will follow Me and obey My commands

[RedeZra]

when it comes to the violence part (and the sacrifice part which is intertwined with the law), i prefer the Kabalist attitude,
that the events do not represent something in-themselves, but represent an intrinsic spiritual attitude.



i believe the sin offering of old Israel

were just dress rehearsals

for the Real sin sacrifice


before God flung creation into existence


He had decided to offer Himself

as Payment for us transgressing His laws


we only have to accept it or reject it

[heyokah]

perhaps Jesus gave you a vision

He is God you know


and He says in the Good book

if you love Me then you will follow Me and obey My commands

Thanks.

So I looked up the commands. Thank God for Internet ;-)

I must say, these Commands were pretty much the 'rules of life' I was brought up with.
My mother had one real serious rule/advice/command though:
"Don't do unto others what you don't want done to you."

So without the Bible we humans know deep inside how to live.

IN LOVE.

[Beren]

when it comes to the violence part (and the sacrifice part which is intertwined with the law), i prefer the Kabalist attitude,
that the events do not represent something in-themselves, but represent an intrinsic spiritual attitude.



i believe the sin offering of old Israel

were just dress rehearsals

for the Real sin sacrifice


before God flung creation into existence


He had decided to offer Himself

as Payment for us transgressing His laws


we only have to accept it or reject it


That`s the beauty which is higher that human mind can grasp;
namely a system of thought or pattern of how people of that time thought and living their life was a sacrifice for redemption.
Blood for blood.

When you are primitive you cannot grasp higher concepts for they sound alien to you so the easy one is to show you that blood which gives life to an animal is there to show you that you also have a blood that gives you life.

So when sacrificing other blood (or life of that clean animal) you would think (at least ) that you cleaned your own blood before God.

Of course God knew that all this is lame in essence and not needed at all BUT and I repeat BUT since God does NOT stop human evolution or shorten it, God allowed this at first-primitive concept to envelop.

Sacrifice of one life for another.

They couldn`t understand that life supports life so they had to understand it by physical example.
In God reality nothing is lost and wasted and any animal or human life isn`t forgotten.

Then God came in Christ to ultimately finish this practice meanwhile teaching them to elevate themselves and to understand high ways of God and spirit.

Really what happened?

From human view point -Jesus is killed . Dead.
From God view point - Jesus didn`t die and he came back to life.

To show us that we`re of God and that we actually LIVE always when we know God.
So if we stomp upon a thing that WE call death ,we realize afterwards that we didn`t die, just went into other dimension.

Nothing dies because all was made of God. It can only transform as all energy does.

Key is that we understand this and have no fear.

So Christ died for us. True. But Christ lived and lives for us. We live in him and he in us -if we understand this.
If we agree to move on into light.

[RedeZra]

if you love Me then you will follow Me and obey My commands

Thanks.

So I looked up the commands. Thank God for Internet ;-)

I must say, these Commands were pretty much the 'rules of life' I was brought up with.
My mother had one real serious rule/advice/command though:
"Don't do unto others what you don't want done to you."

So without the Bible we humans know deep inside how to live.

IN LOVE.


yes Heyokah we know

but the Bible is there to remind us

that these Ten Commandments are from God


and not man made laws

subject to whether or not a criminal is caught

and can afford a good lawyer


some don't believe God gave mankind Commandments


they think we are free to do whatever we will

with no consequences as long as we don't get caught


nobody is looking

but God

[RedeZra]

just an ordinary human being as indoctrinated as the rest of us

died and met Jesus



YKNpYddkh9E

[heyokah]

if you love Me then you will follow Me and obey My commands

Thanks.

So I looked up the commands. Thank God for Internet ;-)

I must say, these Commands were pretty much the 'rules of life' I was brought up with.
My mother had one real serious rule/advice/command though:
"Don't do unto others what you don't want done to you."

So without the Bible we humans know deep inside how to live.

IN LOVE.


yes Heyokah we know

but the Bible is there to remind us

that these Ten Commandments are from God


and not man made laws

subject to whether or not a criminal is caught

and can afford a good lawyer


some don't believe God gave mankind Commandments


they think we are free to do whatever we will

with no consequences as long as we don't get caught


nobody is looking

but God

I don't need the Bible to remind me Red. Sorry.

These truths (Commandments) are in me, as I am a part of god.
So are the Yamas and Niyamas of the yogis (universal moral commandments) in me as I'm part of the universe.

*UPDATE*

Here some information about YAMA and NIYAMA, as many will not know what I am talking about.
http://www.bradpriddy.com/yoga/yamani.htm

You may be familiar with hata yoga, but few will actually know that hata yoga is only one of the eight limbs of Raja Yoga.
Yama and Niyama are two other important limbs, perhaps even the most important ones.

For more information:
http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/Yama_and_Niyama.html

[heyokah]

Dear Red,

I transported this reply from the other thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?46234-Christ-the-Matrix-films-and-the-politics-of-separation./page2)to your own thread.
I thought that was more appropriate....








RedeZra, regardless of the age old arguments. Do you reckon Jesus would approve of the way you have facilitated the hijacking of Jack's thread in his holy name? You do realize you're getting precariously close to generally being seen as troll like here now, right?


if i am a troll for setting the record about Jesus straight then so be it

besides i thought topics about Christ were open for Christians


maybe you want a brand new Jesus

but He hasn't changed ; )

Dear Red,

By saying
So I don't HAVE to be IN CHRIST..... I meant "I don't have to be a fundamentalist follower of the organized religion called Christianity".
I can see what it has done and is doing to people.......and forums....
Maybe I should have put IN CHRIST in parentheses to make it more ironical.

As for Christ Consciousness , I think it is the state of awareness of our true nature, our higher self, and our birthright as children of God.

As far as I know, Jesus achieved this Christ Consciousness in his human life, and was given this term before his name as the recognition of his achievement of this spiritual status.
Hence his name Jesus Christ.



but for Heaven's sake Heyokah

He received the Holy spirit at the baptism in river Jordan



no need to go to church

but read the Bible

and if you want Him you will meet Him

****

"What's in a name?
That which we call a rose
By any other name
would smell as sweet."

****





"Christ Consciousness is the direct line to the Divine, the Holy Spirit.

Whether it be God, Jesus Christ, Buddha, and many more Masters that have walked this Earth, they all have the same thing in common, they wished for, studied, and walked in Peace.

They accepted, demonstrated and became enlightenment on their journeys.

And, regardless of whether you want it or not, we all have the energy of Christ within us.

Jesus taught this as he walked the Earth. "These things that I do, you can do also."

His message was LOVE. Love yourself. Love another. Walk in love and do not fear. Live in a loving way.

When you achieve this, then you are your own Master, you have achieved enlightenment, you have a direct line to the Glory of ONENESS.

This ONENESS is the highest vibrational energy available to you! Why would you not want this in your life?

The Holy Spirit is the Source of all things - Truth, Love and the Goodness of life.

Understand and use the belief system for this; it will improve everyone individually. You will gain spiritual growth immediately, and be aligned to a Higher Source.

This is your birthright - you are part of the Great I AM.
Your Christ Consciousness awareness is only achieved when the human mind structures itself with intention, and gives attention and openness to all life and all possibilities.".....



From the article : Christ Consciousness

read further;
http://www.connectwithspirit.net/news/christ-consciousness

[RedeZra]

satan is very clever

after all he is an illustrious angel


and for 6000 years he have been plotting

with legions on how to destroy us


he got nothing to loose

legions got nothing to loose


they are condemned

and they want us with them


life is all about escaping the snares of satan

who is running out of time

[heyokah]

satan is very clever

after all he is an illustrious angel


and for 6000 years he have been plotting

with legions on how to destroy us


he got nothing to loose

legions got nothing to loose


they are condemned

and they want us with them


life is all about escaping the snares of satan

who is running out of time

Poor Red,
Is this what your belief has made of you? .... A scarred boy.

All this Hell and Damnation you are pouring out on us avalonians.
Have you been recruited for this kind of missionary activity? Is this your job?

I always thought God, Jesus, Christianity was about love and kindness,

because kindness keeps the world afloat (http://tv.naturalnews.com/v.asp?v=0C6FF035DA070AEE2DA0804065A45337)

Watch and share it! STAND-UP

Don't I sound like a missionary now. LOL

[RedeZra]

this life on earth

as we know it

is not old


and it is coming to a close


humanity has been on a 6000 year countdown

plenty of time for evil to play itself out


life is not only about us

but also the angels


and God is the God of all

[RedeZra]

Poor Red,
Is this what your belief has made of you? .... A scarred boy.

All this Hell and Damnation you are pouring out on us avalonians.
Have you been recruited for this kind of missionary activity? Is this your job?

I always thought God, Jesus, Christianity was about love and kindness,




did you ever wonder why there is so much evil lies and deceit in the world ?

where it comes from and why it exists and how long it will last


these are the questions i work with

the why where when and how


i'm seeking a coherent explanation of everything

based on experience artifacts testimonies etc


while many of you are just emotional

clinging to sweet lies and oh we wish it is so


i just want the Truth

and so i spit on your idols

[heyokah]

did you ever wonder why there is so much evil lies and deceit in the world ?

where it comes from and why it exists and how long it will last


these are the questions i work with

the why where when and how


i'm seeking a coherent explanation of everything

based on experience artifacts testimonies etc


while many of you are just emotional

clinging to sweet lies and oh we wish it is so


i just want the Truth

and so i spit on your idols


Aren't we all searching for the truth here?

You can do the best research with an open mind Red.

And by the way, I don't have idols and I never spit.
That is against my commands.

I leave it at this.

Be well.

[Billy]

if you love Me then you will follow Me and obey My commands

Thanks.

So I looked up the commands. Thank God for Internet ;-)

I must say, these Commands were pretty much the 'rules of life' I was brought up with.
My mother had one real serious rule/advice/command though:
"Don't do unto others what you don't want done to you."

So without the Bible we humans know deep inside how to live.

IN LOVE.


yes Heyokah we know

but the Bible is there to remind us

that these Ten Commandments are from God


and not man made laws

subject to whether or not a criminal is caught

and can afford a good lawyer


some don't believe God gave mankind Commandments


they think we are free to do whatever we will

with no consequences as long as we don't get caught


nobody is looking

but God

The commandments that are in the bible given by Yahwey, one of the many Elohim are a corruption of the original text and not the literal translation of the text. There were never 10.




satan is very clever

after all he is an illustrious angel


and for 6000 years he have been plotting

with legions on how to destroy us


he got nothing to loose

legions got nothing to loose


they are condemned

and they want us with them


life is all about escaping the snares of satan

who is running out of time

Wow Red, Tell me is your earth still flat, Do you never listen to scientific archeology factual evidence that humanity has been around for hundred of thousands of years. My goodness the flood was 11000yrs ago.

It was never the plan of the deceiver to destroy humanity only to control, The deceiver feeds from humanities fear, It is humanity that provides the food to the deceiver that enables the deceivers survival.

Can you not avoid this question like the many you have avoided before.
Why did you come to avalon, Was it to preach the gospel? To try and convert Avalonians. Was it to share and learn from others, Or what reason was it, I am interested.

Peace

[RedeZra]

Mary Kay Baxter went to Heaven

so she could give a report about it back to us


look and learn


15Zvh7qCKJ0

[RedeZra]

Can you not avoid this question like the many you have avoided before.
Why did you come to avalon, Was it to preach the gospel? To try and convert Avalonians. Was it to share and learn from others, Or what reason was it, I am interested.




do you think God is just gonna abandon you

so you get lost


no He is reaching out to you til the very end

[Billy]

Can you not avoid this question like the many you have avoided before.
Why did you come to avalon, Was it to preach the gospel? To try and convert Avalonians. Was it to share and learn from others, Or what reason was it, I am interested.




do you think God is just gonna abandon you

so you get lost


no He is reaching out to you til the very end

Is this your answer Red, You are here to reach out till the very end??

If so my friend you will be here till death do us part or eternity, for there is no end :thumb:

[RedeZra]

If so my friend you will be here till death do us part or eternity, for there is no end :thumb:


yes you're right

souls don't die


we will spend eternity somewhere


so i think it is a good idea to investigate

where we go when we die


so many say we just come back

but the Bible doesn't say that


in fact there are only two options in the Good book

Heaven or hell


perhaps we just got this one shot and chance to accept Jesus

before death and then eternity

in Heaven or hell


so we don't want to go wrong here

we must make sure


that this short finite life on earth

send our souls to Heaven


and if we don't want to go there

then well the alternative is worse


what's wrong with Heaven anyway ?

[RedeZra]

Bill Wiese spent 23 min in hell

imagine

eternity



1ap53TAWp-0

[Billy]

This is the testimony of Anita who died and returned with a new understanding of not living in fear but joy and bliss, reincarnation, many lives existing at the same time on parallel earths,

tjLouLHH-_I

You see Red they are personal testimonies of personal experiences, and have no evidence or confirmation of facts. It just depends on which testimony you choose to accept or believe.

This Christian priest believes there is no Hell, That Hell was invented by the church to control the people with fear.

WtIREJVPfQY

Whose testinomy are you going to choose to believe Red.

[heyokah]

This is the testimony of Anita who died and returned with a new understanding of not living in fear but joy and bliss, reincarnation, many lives existing at the same time on parallel earths,

tjLouLHH-_I


billyji, thank you for this video. It meant a lot to me as I had a near death experience myself (see reply # 1101 of this thread)
This was in 1971. And nobody wanted to listen to what I had to say, other than my family, who didn't understand and thought I must have been hallucinating.
That's what the doctors had told them.
They considered it a miracle that I totally recovered, but didn't understand my story.
I guess the time was not ripe for testimonies like this.

I'm so glad for Anita Moorjani that she was taken serious and could share her experience, which is very important for her well being.

Because you want to be heard.....

This video has made me emotional but very happy

Thank you.

[Billy]

billyji, thank you for this video. It meant a lot to me as I had a near death experience myself (see reply # 1101 of this thread)
This was in 1971. And nobody wanted to listen to what I had to say, other than my family, who didn't understand and thought I must have been hallucinating.
That's what the doctors had told them.
They considered it a miracle that I totally recovered, but didn't understand my story.
I guess the time was not ripe for testimonies like this.

I'm so glad for Anita Moorjani that she was taken serious and could share her experience, which is very important for her well being.

Because you want to be heard.....

This video has made me emotional but very happy

Thank you.

Hi heyokah, expressing emotions and being Happy when you do is the way to go. I am pleased Anita touched you, Our very own Kimberley here on Avalon interviewed Anita a few weeks ago, You can listen here. http://www.blogtalkradio.com/belovenow/2012/04/24/living-in-the-now-lee-gerdes-and-anita-moorjani

Did you ever write down your experience, maybe you could do this and share it here on Avalon.

Blessings

Billy

[RedeZra]

This is the testimony of Anita who died and returned with a new understanding of not living in fear but joy and bliss, reincarnation, many lives existing at the same time on parallel earths,


You see Red they are personal testimonies of personal experiences, and have no evidence or confirmation of facts. It just depends on which testimony you choose to accept or believe.


it seems to me that Anita had a so-called out-of-body experience

where the soul is free from the nervous system

and so enjoys an enhanced clarity of perception


it was not her time to die

and so she had not a near-death experience

but just an out-of-body one






This Christian priest believes there is no Hell, That Hell was invented by the church to control the people with fear.

Whose testinomy are you going to choose to believe Red.


i am not going to believe a priest who doesn't believe the Bible

why is that man a priest anyway ?


when it comes to eternity

that's a long time lol

or no time


we cannot base this on believes

we got to know

[gripreaper]

This is the testimony of Anita who died and returned with a new understanding of not living in fear but joy and bliss, reincarnation, many lives existing at the same time on parallel earths,

tjLouLHH-_I


billyji, thank you for this video. It meant a lot to me as I had a near death experience myself (see reply # 1101 of this thread)
This was in 1971. And nobody wanted to listen to what I had to say, other than my family, who didn't understand and thought I must have been hallucinating.
That's what the doctors had told them.
They considered it a miracle that I totally recovered, but didn't understand my story.
I guess the time was not ripe for testimonies like this.

I'm so glad for Anita Moorjani that she was taken serious and could share her experience, which is very important for her well being.

Because you want to be heard.....

This video has made me emotional but very happy

Thank you.

Yes, Anita's story is absolutely amazing. I can't, for the life of me, understand anyone who could listen to her story and still see god as a torturous, angry demigod who would send us to hell forever to be tortured and burnt and suffer forever, and not understand reincarnation.

What an awful LIE to fear monger us with!

[RedeZra]

Yes, Anita's story is absolutely amazing. I can't, for the life of me, understand anyone who could listen to her story and still see god as a torturous, angry demigod who would send us to hell forever to be tortured and burnt and suffer forever, and not understand reincarnation.

What an awful LIE to fear monger us with!


God is good

we got choice


why go wrong ?


the devil has been around since before the beginning of man

and Jesus came to destroy his doctrines

and take the blame for us breaking the Law


so many say save us from what !?

how about eternal damnation !

[gripreaper]

You're impossible. Blame? you put "blame" in the context of divinity?

http://swiftor.com/attachments/f91/10318d1329521442t-48-hour-trial-again-sisko-facepalm.gif

[RedeZra]

You're impossible. Blame? you put "blame" in the context of divinity?




don't you know about the Divine law and order of God ?

[RedeZra]

look it is very simple


we blew it

and God knew it


so He sent His heart

to fix us


when we deny the Heart of God

then there is no hope

[SKIBADABOMSKI]

Y'know RedeZra, it's characters like you that push more and more people away from christianity. Your narrow minded views just prove your warped. It puts people off even contemplating the thought of holding a belief in a religion.

I switched from christianity to a sport billy figurine when I was a kid because of watching people like you. There was a time I'd enter a church and feel it's surroundings and really felt like I should be good and I prayed for things in life. The I horrifically watched the christians on the streets of Manchester screaming about god. People trying to convert people all the time. I have sat and argued this topic with many individuals and not one single person looked sane.

Nowadays the youth completely ignore the church. All one needs is a little temple and one can pray to that for everything he needs. Then you develop an understanding that your speaking to oneself and thus you speaking to your conscious and realize that we all have a choice. Choice on instinct and then pause and speak to your conscious and 99% of the time your conscious self is correct.

Your talk of people going to hell because of not believing in Jesus is playground stuff.

This thread is all about you holding on to your beliefs,

Tapping away on your computer thinking you have served Jesus well by telling us all he is alive.

And I can be 100% sure that you count how many pages this thread has and feel like it's an accomplishment.

Thus


you


type



like




this.

So I'll help you and leave you.






A
















M















E

















N.


Ski-

[Seikou-Kishi]

This thread is all about you holding on to your beliefs,

Tapping away on your computer thinking you have served Jesus well by telling us all he is alive.

The certain rarely feel the need to be so dogmatic, vociferous and forceful. Very often, the most enflamed are trying to assuage their own doubts.

[RedeZra]

Y'know RedeZra, it's characters like you that push more and more people away from christianity. Your narrow minded views just prove your warped. It puts people off even contemplating the thought of holding a belief in a religion.




it's not about religion but relationship


i am a voice in a world run by the devil

and i'm telling you

he has tricked us


and eternity is at stake

where will we spend it ?

[SKIBADABOMSKI]

This thread is all about you holding on to your beliefs,

Tapping away on your computer thinking you have served Jesus well by telling us all he is alive.

The certain rarely feel the need to be so dogmatic, vociferous and forceful. Very often, the most enflamed are trying to assuage their own doubts.

That post my friend is so good that I'm going to copy and paste it into my 'brilliantly said' folder.

Fantastic.

[RedeZra]

This thread is all about you holding on to your beliefs,

Tapping away on your computer thinking you have served Jesus well by telling us all he is alive.

The certain rarely feel the need to be so dogmatic, vociferous and forceful. Very often, the most enflamed are trying to assuage their own doubts.


... or urgency ; )

[cloud9]

Red,
I admire your persistence and endurance... and your avatar is really cool!

On the other hand, it's a real shame you can not see what many have been trying to tell you. I really don't understand how a person with your believes is a member on a forum like this.

This is a place for open minded people who have already "been there, done that", meaning we have already passed the dogma and we dared to see that our reality is different that we were taught.

I understand that for some people is very difficult to overcome the brainwashing given in churches around the world, you can see them preaching everywhere that the end is near and repent of your sins, the bible this, the bible that...

The truth is that no one of them are able to have ONE original thought or idea, if you talk to a religious fanatic, they will always answer you with a quotation from the bible, they don't have their own ideas, they just repeat what somebody else told them long ago.

The bible is not the word of God, it was written by men and have been twisted many times, intentionally or unintentionally...

About Jesus, I really don't know what to think... IF he existed, he is probably a great soul who is ahead of us and taught us many great things.

I asked you in another thread if you had seen the video about the bible and you answered vaguely which means you didn't.... that's why you'll hold the same reasoning over and over and never learning anything new, which is fine... the problem is that many members here have a wider concept of God and everything that is and your posts, repeating yourself again and again won't change a thing.

If you don't mind my asking.... why did you join Avalon?

[RedeZra]

we got to be wise

investigate


figure out what life is all about

where to start ?


when we realize that this world is an intricate web of lies

then we can try to unmask the deception

but it will take time


we can't do it alone

and we can't stop before we're done


who spawns this intricate web of lies anyway and why ?

what's at stake


we got to be wise

investigate

[RedeZra]

Red,
I admire your persistence and endurance... and your avatar is really cool!

If you don't mind my asking.... why did you join Avalon?


tnx and i've been around for quite some time in Avalon

i wonder why i'm not a mod yet ; )


and i've been learning by participation

but from a broad path i have been led down a narrow road


i did not begin as a Christian and i never been to church except twice

so i'm a bit shocked as well


but i know i'm on to something

important



God Bless

[GCS1103]

I follow this thread, because I have an interest in reading about the different beliefs people have. It's a thread that was started by Red and, of course, we're all welcome to post. What I don't understand is the lack of civility here. If you find Red's thread hard to take, why continue to post and insult him personally? Lately, the posts have become more intense and nasty. He has strong convictions, which no one here will change, and he has every right to express them. It seems like the nastiness is escalating and I'm trying to understand why.

None of us here knows the ultimate truth by virtue of the fact that we are still here. One day we'll know for certain, but not while we are in our physical bodies. What makes any one of us more "enlightened" than another? Why are people coming here and lambasting him?

[RedeZra]

I follow this thread, because I have an interest in reading about the different beliefs people have. It's a thread that was started by Red and, of course, we're all welcome to post. What I don't understand is the lack of civility here. If you find Red's thread hard to take, why continue to post and insult him personally? Lately, the posts have become more intense and nasty. He has strong convictions, which no one here will change, and he has every right to express them. It seems like the nastiness is escalating and I'm trying to understand why.

None of us here knows the ultimate truth by virtue of the fact that we are still here. One day we'll know for certain, but not while we are in our physical bodies. What makes any one of us more "enlightened" than another? Why are people coming here and lambasting him?



tnx Goldie ; )


did He not say

keep in mind that the world hated Me first


Jesus just knew

that He rubs the world the wrong way



God Bless

[gripreaper]

None of us here knows the ultimate truth by virtue of the fact that we are still here.

Except Red. He knows the ultimate truth and none of the rest of us do.

Did you listen to Anita's story? It's quite profound. So profound, that I started a thread a while back specifically to address it:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43020-Near-Death-Experience-Dying-To-be-Me

Many of us have tried to enter into civil discussions with Red, and point out the FACTS with regard to reincarnation, and that the creator is loving and unconditional, but Red does not engage and address those who have attempted to engage him.

So, the futility causes those to throw their hands up in the air, and if they point out, in their opinion, that Red's behavior is somewhat uncharacteristic of one who would give a modicum of civility to others, then how is this uncivil?

This thread is not an open discussion of "what different beliefs people have" but Red's personal soap box, which ignores others and it a distinct monologue for Red.

[starninja]

Y'know RedeZra, it's characters like you that push more and more people away from christianity. Your narrow minded views just prove your warped. It puts people off even contemplating the thought of holding a belief in a religion.



Hehehe…..I am afraid that it is RedeZra’s intention. I have noticed that kind of behavior on David Icke forum……...maybe they are twin. :lol:

On a serious note, it would be foolish to even think that The Bible hasn't been changed over the years. I have found out one “little” change when I was looking at Eosphorus (Dawn-Bringer) and Hesperus (Evening-star) myth in Greek mythology. Lucifer disappeared from New International Version, English Standard Version, or New Living Translation. :eyebrows:

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isaiah 14: 12
( from King James Version)

How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!
Isaiah 14: 12
New International Version, 1984

How you are fallen from heaven,
O Day Star, son of Dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low!
Isaiah 14: 12
(from English Standard Version)

How you are fallen from heaven,
O shining star, son of the morning!
You have been thrown down to the earth,
you who destroyed the nations of the world.
Isaiah 14: 12
( from New Living Translation 2007)

More versions http://bible.cc/isaiah/14-12.htm

[RedeZra]

Hehehe…..I am afraid that it is RedeZra’s intention. I have noticed that kind of behavior on David Icke forum……...maybe they are twin. :lol:

On a serious note, it would be foolish to even think that The Bible hasn't been changed over the years. I have found out one “little” change when I was looking at Eosphorus (Dawn-Bringer) and Hesperus (Evening-star) myth in Greek mythology. Lucifer disappeared from New International Version, English Standard Version, or New Living Translation. :eyebrows:




i'm just pointing to Jesus


after all the Apostles didn't have bibles

but Jesus sent them the Holy spirit

to give them power and guide them


we need the Holy spirit friends

so God can guide and guard us


Who will give us this Spirit of God ?

[starninja]

LOL! You will not give up. You should get a special recognition for your determination. :first: But don’t expect that I will be engaged in discussion. I did it once with your twin…….and I was cured. :lol: I prefer to study mythology and religions to sort out truth from lies.

[starninja]

RedeZra, I have a gift for you. Lucifer disappeared form the Bible but he is doing well in occult art.

Jean Delville - Belgian Occultist Symbolism I


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54IeQWD7QHI



http://artmight.com/albums/2011-02-07/art-upload-2/d/Delville-Jean/delville-satans-treasures-1895.jpg

J. Delville Satans Treasures





Carlos Schwabe - Occultist Symbolism II


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_X4dCtMuFY




http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/05/Fleurs-du-mal_benediction.jpg/360px-Fleurs-du-mal_benediction.jpg

Carlos Schwabe, Illustration of Baudelaires" The Flowers of Evil "




Otto Greiner


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d1T9N83zz8



http://cdn2.all-art.org/symbolism/khnopff/p117.jpg

Otto Greiner, Devil Showing Woman to the People

[kreagle]

RedeZra,

It's been awhile since I have posted here, or commented to this OP, by you. I see that you have "changed" the "original title" from.......let the Bible speak,......to......the Bible,.....since I posted last in March. That's interesting.

I'll have to say that even I am left somewhat confused as to what your personal beliefs are. I can understand the confusion that others are experiencing.

Perhaps it would help "clear up" a lot of confusion if you would be specific and relate to us all exactly what a person needs to do in order to be saved,......in a "complete" and "simple" Bible-based explanation.

If you would rather converse about this in a PM, I understand, and am perfectly OK with that.

I await your reply.

Love and Peace,.......kreagle

[Beren]

Someone said here that because of Red and such many are steered away from Christianity.
I disagree.

Hypocrites in clergy and elsewhere made ordinary people suffer in order to be Christian.
To be a Christian you have to die as old person of this world and be re born into new person of divine way.

This is maybe oversimplification but essence is here.

Either you die (thus transform) into light or you are not a Christian.
Being Christian is being holy man or woman.

Are you?
Or who is?

Anyone can be but will they?
Will they give up alluring call of lower dimensionality and polarities, fear and else?

Will they rise up to their divine nature and be one in Christ and God?

I will say that attacking Red here doesn't mean anything to anyone. Doesn't help the situation at all.
Rising up from our polarities will do good.

As per Kreagles's question I will add these words from Bible:
1 Corinthians 13

GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

Love

13 I may speak in the languages of humans and of angels. But if I don’t have love, I am a loud gong or a clashing cymbal. 2 I may have the gift to speak what God has revealed, and I may understand all mysteries and have all knowledge. I may even have enough faith to move mountains. But if I don’t have love, I am nothing. 3 I may even give away all that I have and give up my body to be burned.[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%2013&version=GW#fen-GW-28648a)] But if I don’t have love, none of these things will help me.
4 Love is patient. Love is kind. Love isn’t jealous. It doesn’t sing its own praises. It isn’t arrogant. 5 It isn’t rude. It doesn’t think about itself. It isn’t irritable. It doesn’t keep track of wrongs. 6 It isn’t happy when injustice is done, but it is happy with the truth. 7 Love never stops being patient, never stops believing, never stops hoping, never gives up.
8Love never comes to an end. There is the gift of speaking what God has revealed, but it will no longer be used. There is the gift of speaking in other languages, but it will stop by itself. There is the gift of knowledge, but it will no longer be used. 9 Our knowledge is incomplete and our ability to speak what God has revealed is incomplete. 10 But when what is complete comes, then what is incomplete will no longer be used. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, thought like a child, and reasoned like a child. When I became an adult, I no longer used childish ways. 12 Now we see a blurred image in a mirror. Then we will see very clearly. Now my knowledge is incomplete. Then I will have complete knowledge as God has complete knowledge of me.
13 So these three things remain: faith, hope, and love. But the best one of these is love.



Who does have an argument over this?
Straight from Bible ,from Paul whom is accused of being traitor of Christ and such...

Who has any reasonable argument against this?

[cloud9]

Red,
I admire your persistence and endurance... and your avatar is really cool!

If you don't mind my asking.... why did you join Avalon?


tnx and i've been around for quite some time in Avalon

i wonder why i'm not a mod yet ; )


and i've been learning by participation

but from a broad path i have been led down a narrow road


i did not begin as a Christian and i never been to church except twice

so i'm a bit shocked as well


but i know i'm on to something

important



God Bless

Red,
I'm really interested in your opinion about near death experiences, reincarnation, etc., but please give me YOUR opinion not a quote from the bible, also if possible, please give me a good paragraph not just short sentences.
My next questions are:
What other subjects do you like or study besides the bible?
Who is your favorite researcher, author? (Sereda, Dyer, Haramein, Horak, Farrell, etc.?
Have you ever read Conversations with God?
Thanks a lot!

[GCS1103]

None of us here knows the ultimate truth by virtue of the fact that we are still here.

Except Red. He knows the ultimate truth and none of the rest of us do.

Did you listen to Anita's story? It's quite profound. So profound, that I started a thread a while back specifically to address it:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43020-Near-Death-Experience-Dying-To-be-Me

Many of us have tried to enter into civil discussions with Red, and point out the FACTS with regard to reincarnation, and that the creator is loving and unconditional, but Red does not engage and address those who have attempted to engage him.

So, the futility causes those to throw their hands up in the air, and if they point out, in their opinion, that Red's behavior is somewhat uncharacteristic of one who would give a modicum of civility to others, then how is this uncivil?

This thread is not an open discussion of "what different beliefs people have" but Red's personal soap box, which ignores others and it a distinct monologue for Red.

Hi, gripreaper-

I did watch the video and thought it was very good. I had seen it before, but watched it again. I've read many articles on NDE's and seen numerous videos from those that have survived and some that included the physician that was with them. All of the ones I have seen involve people who are profoundly changed and the majority state that they experienced a new spiritual awareness. Some of them become very assured that there is, indeed, a God that they met/felt/became aware of.

Those are the people that come back from their NDE and live a life with "their" knowledge that there is a Creator, or whatever you wish to call it. Certainly, we can agree, that whatever they have experienced they usually didn't want to come back into their physical bodies. This gives me a great relief that "on the other side" is something so wonderful that individuals would chose to remain separated from their families and loved ones here in the physical world because of what they saw or felt when they died.

To get back to your point (or frustration), which I understand to be that Red uses his thread as a soapbox - there are many posts here that contain people's thoughts and their arguments to Red. I know he always answers with a reference to Jesus, but maybe his life is completely devoted to his spiritual beliefs and he truly wants to warn us of what he thinks is heading our way. We can post what we want here and have a dialogue with each other, even though Red started this thread. We can do this without attacking him personally, calling him a troll (like on another thread) and displaying the worst of our egos. What do you think??

[observer]

8Love never comes to an end. There is the gift of speaking what God has revealed, but it will no longer be used. There is the gift of speaking in other languages, but it will stop by itself. There is the gift of knowledge, but it will no longer be used. 9 Our knowledge is incomplete and our ability to speak what God has revealed is incomplete. 10 But when what is complete comes, then what is incomplete will no longer be used. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, thought like a child, and reasoned like a child. When I became an adult, I no longer used childish ways. 12 Now we see a blurred image in a mirror. Then we will see very clearly. Now my knowledge is incomplete. Then I will have complete knowledge as God has complete knowledge of me.
13 So these three things remain: faith, hope, and love. But the best one of these is love.



Who does have an argument over this?
Straight from Bible ,from Paul whom is accused of being traitor of Christ and such...

Who has any reasonable argument against this?

Thank you for asking the question that gives me the opportunity to speak my Truth, Beren.

The reasonable argument is the synthesis of everything I've been pointing-out throughout each and every comment I've made in this (and other threads) to the Fundamentalist Christian point of view. Most of those with this point of view refuse to look at the evidence that is being presented.

The Bible is a carefully crafted lie. It is a lie because it takes Cosmic Truth - such as that which you have quoted (above) - and connects that Truth to the God of the Old Testament, Jehovah/Yahweh.

From all the archeological evidence that has been extracted from the desert in Egypt (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/nag_hammadi/contents.htm) and elsewhere, over the past one hundred years - evidence that has been unmolested, altered, or edited - we discover that the entity Yeshua ben Joseph was a MUCH DIFFERENT individual than the Bible purports.... with a much different message.

Yeshua spoke of a different God, a God of Unconditional Love.... a "One True God". He called this God his "Father In Heaven". He spoke of every individual having the capacity to become filled with the Holy Spirit.

It was the work of the Roman Empire, as agents of the Archon/Reptiles, that made Yeshua ben Joseph into the mythical entity, Jesus.

It was the work of the Roman Empire that edited ancient documents to make it appear as though this mythical Jesus character was the incarnation of Jehovah/Yahweh.

Put all your faith in the subtle deceptions of this Bible and my only caution to you would be:

When you are sitting around the feet of Yahweh, singing Kumbayah, don't accept the invitation to be the "guest of honor" at the Grand Banquet....

You will most likely be the main course.


THE BEST LIE EVER TOLD IS THE ONE FILLED WITH THE MOST ELEMENTS OF THE TRUTH - observer

[starninja]

Thank you for asking the question that gives me the opportunity to speak my Truth, Beren.

The reasonable argument is the synthesis of everything I've been pointing-out throughout each and every comment I've made in this (and other threads) to the Fundamentalist Christian point of view. Most of those with this point of view refuse to look at the evidence that is being presented.

The Bible is a carefully crafted lie. It is a lie because it takes Cosmic Truth - such as that which you have quoted (above) - and connects that Truth to the God of the Old Testament, Jehovah/Yahweh.

From all the archeological evidence that has been extracted from the desert in Egypt (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/nag_hammadi/contents.htm) and elsewhere, over the past one hundred years - evidence that has been unmolested, altered, or edited - we discover that the entity Yeshua ben Joseph was a [I]MUCH DIFFERENT individual than the Bible purports.... with a much different message.

Yeshua spoke of a different God, a God of Unconditional Love.... a "One True God". He called this God his "Father In Heaven". He spoke of every individual having the capacity to become filled with the Holy Spirit.

It was the work of the Roman Empire, as agents of the Archon/Reptiles, that made Yeshua ben Joseph into the mythical entity, Jesus.

It was the work of the Roman Empire that edited ancient documents to make it appear as though this mythical Jesus character was the incarnation of Jehovah/Yahweh.

Put all your faith in the subtle deceptions of this Bible and my only caution to you would be:

When you are sitting around the feet of Yahweh, singing Kumbayah, don't accept the invitation to be the "guest of honor" at the Grand Banquet....

You will most likely be the main course.


THE BEST LIE EVER TOLD IS THE ONE FILLED WITH THE MOST ELEMENTS OF THE TRUTH - observer


It is interesting what you wrote. My search for truth lead me to the Roman Empire and I have found out that Christians didn’t accept the Old Testament. I have to do more research to get a bigger picture. Second, studying the religions of Chaldea, Babylonia, and Assyria, I have found a number of similar myths that are in The Old Testament. Even ziggurat resembles the Babel tower. But I have found similar myths in Greek mythology too.

I am far away to say that the Bible is as you said,” a carefully crafted lie” I will not make up my mind without a concrete evidence, and perhaps, I will never know the truth.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/SumerianZiggurat.jpg

Reconstruction of the appearance of one of the ziggurat Etemenanki in Babylon .

Model of Etemenanki. Pergamon museum (Berlin) "The house foundation / base of heaven and earth" - the temple in the form of ziggurat , located in Babylon , in the immediate vicinity of the Processional Way, according to popular opinion dedicated to the god Marduk , one of the most important sanctuaries of the State of Babylon . According to some researchers, this building was the inspiration for the biblical story of the Tower of Babel

[observer]

[....snip]
"It is interesting what you wrote. My search for truth lead me to the Roman Empire and I have found out that Christians didn’t accept the Old Testament. I have to do more research to get a bigger picture.

I have spent my entire adult life searching for the Truth, starninja. This quest began in my fourteenth year. I'm now on the cusp of my 65th birthday.

You will never find understanding listening to one single, narrow-minded, point of reference. You must explore every detail, regardless of where, and against what belief system those evidential trails lead.

This is a lifetime work.

Seek-out the hard irrefutable evidence, such as that buried for thousands of years. Follow some of my comments

The evidential trail doesn't lie....

[panopticon]

RedeZra,

It's been awhile since I have posted here, or commented to this OP, by you. I see that you have "changed" the "original title" from.......let the Bible speak,......to......the Bible,.....since I posted last in March. That's interesting.

I'll have to say that even I am left somewhat confused as to what your personal beliefs are. I can understand the confusion that others are experiencing.

Perhaps it would help "clear up" a lot of confusion if you would be specific and relate to us all exactly what a person needs to do in order to be saved,......in a "complete" and "simple" Bible-based explanation.

If you would rather converse about this in a PM, I understand, and am perfectly OK with that.

I await your reply.

Love and Peace,.......kreagle

G'day kreagle,

This thread has always been called "the Bible"... The reference you made in one of your earlier responses to me was about the opening posts first line which says 'let the Bible speak'.

This thread was started by RedeZra following a number of discussions in other threads which critiqued some notable apologists scholars.

As for RedeZra's philosophy. I have a great amount of respect for his knowledge of early Christian Church history and while he tends to "colour" it with his perspective he stays fairly well with the creationist/apologist beliefs. While I don't believe anywhere near the same as he does (I am not a theist) his knowledge in this area has assisted me by supplying additional references and points of research in related fields (to which I have thanked him a number of times). The trouble that I have had, over the many discussions that I've had with Red, is that when I present evidence that is contrary to his understanding he simply says that it is a lie made up by the establishment/cabal/"insert name here" (this is why I often use creationist/apologist sources in discussions with him).

I haven't been back to this thread since you asked me to honour RedeZra's opening posts request and 'let the Bible speak'. I had been supplying evidence that showed there were obvious problems with the presented material (any of Ron Wyatt's material for example) until then. As this thread is about the Bible it should be open to critiques of the Bible. As an example I would say that there is no evidence, outside of the Bible and tradition (baring a short unrelated inscription), that the entire "Exodus" account ever occurred. This doesn't mean there weren't some Israelites in Egypt at the time in question, rather that the view of them all being slaves and the rest of the story is based on tradition and not fact.

The same goes for the New Testament. There is little evidence that an historical Jesus existed (though I view there was probably a "roaming preacher" who went by this name as it was common in the period) in any historical documentation (the Jospehus quote is a notable exception but is generally accepted as a later addition around the time of Eusebius [4th Century CE]) and there is amply archaeological evidence that Nazareth didn't exist until late in the 1st Century CE. I've presented evidence to back up what I've said throughout this thread and I don't feel the need to repeat myself.

From my various discussions with RedeZra my understanding of his philosophy, it being so closely associated with the fundamentalist one, to be "saved" a person would need:

to follow the various Bible commandments to the letter,
be "born again" (ie accept Jesus as your personal saviour),
believe in the resurrection and ascension of Jesus and finally
believe that the Bible, in its entirety (ie OT and NT), is the true and inspired word of God.

Maybe he has additional personal beliefs regarding dietary and hygiene requirements (some fundamentalists do) but his beliefs seem fairly creationist/orthodox to me.
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

[starninja]

[....snip]
"It is interesting what you wrote. My search for truth lead me to the Roman Empire and I have found out that Christians didn’t accept the Old Testament. I have to do more research to get a bigger picture.

I have spent my entire adult life searching for the Truth, starninja. This quest began in my fourteenth year. I'm now on the cusp of my 65th birthday.

You will never find understanding listening to one single, narrow-minded, point of reference. You must explore every detail, regardless of where, and against what belief system those evidential trails lead.

This is a lifetime work.

Seek-out the hard irrefutable evidence, such as that buried for thousands of years. Follow some of my comments

The evidential trail doesn't lie....


Hey, where did I say that I look for” the understanding in one single narrow minded point of reference”?

It would be very unwise and limiting indeed. I don’t accept any beliefs or make conclusions without looking at the issue from any possible angle. In fact, when we accept a belief we close our mind for alternative explanations. As I said, I can’t say that the Bible is a lie. I question a lot the Old Testament and I keep studying. I am also very aware that the Bible has been changed over the years. I was watching a presentation of a person who spent 6 years studying different versions of the Bible and presented specific verses and their alteration. I know that it is life time task, and I accept that I may never know the truth.

BTW, I don’t follow anybody…...expect my intuition. :lol:

[RedeZra]

RedeZra,

It's been awhile since I have posted here, or commented to this OP, by you. I see that you have "changed" the "original title" from.......let the Bible speak,......to......the Bible,.....since I posted last in March. That's interesting.

I'll have to say that even I am left somewhat confused as to what your personal beliefs are. I can understand the confusion that others are experiencing.

Perhaps it would help "clear up" a lot of confusion if you would be specific and relate to us all exactly what a person needs to do in order to be saved,......in a "complete" and "simple" Bible-based explanation.




hi Kreagle

the thread title has always been the Bible

but in my first post here i wrote let the Bible speak


this thread was ment to explore what the Bible says about our origin history and destiny

and look for facts artifacts and testimonies that back the Bible up


this Book has stood the test of time for almost two millennia

and has been the bedrock of western civilisation


but today governments have rejected this cornerstone

and are doing things in direct opposition to what is written there


the Bible has obviously become too radical for the State

and so it ridicules and rejects what is supposed to be the inspired word of the Creator


so i wanted to find out

if the Bible is the written word of God

for myself


and that is why i made this thread




about being saved

people say saved from what


what did Jesus save those who accept Him from ?


you tell me Kreagle ; )

[kreagle]

Someone said here that because of Red and such many are steered away from Christianity.
I disagree.

Hypocrites in clergy and elsewhere made ordinary people suffer in order to be Christian.
To be a Christian you have to die as old person of this world and be re born into new person of divine way.

This is maybe oversimplification but essence is here.

Either you die (thus transform) into light or you are not a Christian.
Being Christian is being holy man or woman.

Are you?
Or who is?

Anyone can be but will they?
Will they give up alluring call of lower dimensionality and polarities, fear and else?

Will they rise up to their divine nature and be one in Christ and God?

I will say that attacking Red here doesn't mean anything to anyone. Doesn't help the situation at all.
Rising up from our polarities will do good.

As per Kreagles's question I will add these words from Bible:
1 Corinthians 13

GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

Love

13 I may speak in the languages of humans and of angels. But if I don’t have love, I am a loud gong or a clashing cymbal. 2 I may have the gift to speak what God has revealed, and I may understand all mysteries and have all knowledge. I may even have enough faith to move mountains. But if I don’t have love, I am nothing. 3 I may even give away all that I have and give up my body to be burned.[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%2013&version=GW#fen-GW-28648a)] But if I don’t have love, none of these things will help me.
4 Love is patient. Love is kind. Love isn’t jealous. It doesn’t sing its own praises. It isn’t arrogant. 5 It isn’t rude. It doesn’t think about itself. It isn’t irritable. It doesn’t keep track of wrongs. 6 It isn’t happy when injustice is done, but it is happy with the truth. 7 Love never stops being patient, never stops believing, never stops hoping, never gives up.
8Love never comes to an end. There is the gift of speaking what God has revealed, but it will no longer be used. There is the gift of speaking in other languages, but it will stop by itself. There is the gift of knowledge, but it will no longer be used. 9 Our knowledge is incomplete and our ability to speak what God has revealed is incomplete. 10 But when what is complete comes, then what is incomplete will no longer be used. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, thought like a child, and reasoned like a child. When I became an adult, I no longer used childish ways. 12 Now we see a blurred image in a mirror. Then we will see very clearly. Now my knowledge is incomplete. Then I will have complete knowledge as God has complete knowledge of me.
13 So these three things remain: faith, hope, and love. But the best one of these is love.



Who does have an argument over this?
Straight from Bible ,from Paul whom is accused of being traitor of Christ and such...

Who has any reasonable argument against this?

Beren,

Who could possibly argue with the love of God! I spoke about this special disbursement of love, that God,.....and God only,.....can give, and that's a special level of love called,....."AGAPE".

Agape is simply "the love of God for humankind"! It can also be defined as the love of Christians for other persons,....corresponding to the love of God for humankind. Hence, we learn from Him and consequently learn to "follow suite"!

Notice the "next valuable lesson" that we are taught, in reference to love, from the Master!

John 3:16
King James Version (KJV)

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Here we see God's love,... as a "precious seed",...coming to "fruition". Instead of God sitting back and saying,....."Well, I love them,.....and I wish them the "best",....and hopefully they'll do the right thing!", we see a "different direction" that "real love" takes. We see that "real love" intervenes!,....we see God's love "in action"!

(point)

The "reason" I am pointing this "lesson of God" out, in reference to His love, is simply because,....for the most part,...."this world" has developed a "warped concept" of what "love really is"!

We've seen the entire world, especially from a "religious standpoint", buy wholeheartedly into what John Lennon, and the Beatles, sang about in their "hit song",...."All you need is love"!

This type of "misguided love" is purely "passive",.....AGAPE,.....God's love,....is "proactive"!

The popular and prevalent idea today is,......

Corporal punishment, (chastisement/spanking),...is no longer required in "the home",.....for "All you need is love"!

There's "alternative ways" of dealing with "little Billy and precious Susie",.....,"just talk to them,....on their level",.....for, as we now know,....."All you need is love"!

Surely God would "never" deal with "us" like that!!,....or,......would He?

Hebrews 12:5-7
King James Version (KJV)

5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

Once again, we are talking about "AGAPE",.....God's love!

(in conclusion)

Is it "possible" that God's love,....Agape,......"instructs us in ways....we "sometimes" don't like, or care for? As a father of "three" myself,.....I never hesitated to with "my children,.....for I love them, and I'm looking out for their best interests.

Is it "possible" that God's love,....Agape,......"challenges us to move to the "next level",.....make us uncomfortable so that we will elevate our current position?" As a father,......I'm glad and humbled to say,....that my "three" have looked me in the eye and expressed their gratitude for "taking a stand",....."making tough decisions",....."giving them bits of wisdom/life lessons during difficult times". Now they are on their own, raising children themselves,.....and "learning what it was like to be in my shoes!"

Love,......Christian love,.......AGAPE,......goes a lot deeper than most people realize and are taught.

Beren, was your post to me because you felt I was being to "harsh" to RedeZra?

Is this "why" your post relays a strong dose of an,....."All you need is love" message?

That's not my intentions,.....whatsoever! I would like some "clarifications" from him, and have stated that I would be "perfectly OK" with doing this in a PM, if he felt more comfortable in doing it that way.

Love a Peace,.......kreagle

[RedeZra]

Red,
I'm really interested in your opinion about near death experiences, reincarnation, etc., but please give me YOUR opinion not a quote from the bible, also if possible, please give me a good paragraph not just short sentences.


hi Cloud lol i like to speak and type as little as possible

if you don't believe me just check my post count ; )


i have been trying to find out if the doctrine of reincarnation is true

for if true

then the Bible is false

and Jesus a joke


i don't remember any past lives

and if i did

then the Bible would be false

and Jesus a joke


so i have no way of knowing if reincarnation is true or not

but i have found ample evidence

for the factuality of the Bible

and the living reality of Jesus


and Jesus also says in the Bible

that He came to destroy the doctrines of satan


so was fat Buddha a lier and blue Krishna a jinn ?

well they did not get crucified for our sins






My next questions are:
What other subjects do you like or study besides the bible?
Who is your favorite researcher, author? (Sereda, Dyer, Haramein, Horak, Farrell, etc.?
Have you ever read Conversations with God?
Thanks a lot!


i have read much and even visited gurus

since teen i have been obsessed with truth


nobody seemed to know what life was about

or there were all these divergent theories

so i set out to try to find truth myself


i never thought the long journey would take me to that old Book back home

but it did

and i sensed the Spirit in it


the Spirit of the Living God

who is not found in a book nor the Book


but it is the beginning of wisdom

and an acceptance of His Spirit and Sacrifice

[RedeZra]

Beren, was your post to me because you felt I was being to "harsh" to RedeZra?

Is this "why" your post relays a strong dose of an,....."All you need is love" message?

That's not my intentions,.....whatsoever! I would like some "clarifications" from him, and have stated that I would be "perfectly OK" with doing this in a PM, if he felt more comfortable in doing it that way.

Love a Peace,.......kreagle


i'm sure it was not directed at you

and i find it interesting that you thought so lol


if i have written something you disagree with Kreagle

then just come out and say it

so i can look into it


i sense we disagree about the Trinity

but is there anything else ?


God Bless

[starninja]

this Book has stood the test of time for almost two millennia

and has been the bedrock of western civilisation





Oh yes, especially when this Book was changed without our knowledge. :biggrin1:
To sort out what is true and what is a lie is the biggest challenge. Think about King James and his connection with Francis Bacon.

According to AMORC Francis Bacon was Rosicrucian but William R. Denslow's "10,000 Famous Freemasons" listed him as a Freemason.

At the age of forty-five, Bacon married Alice Barnham, the fourteen-year-old daughter of a well-connected London alderman and MP.
The well-connected antiquary John Aubrey noted in his Brief Lives concerning Bacon, "He was a Pederast. His Ganimeds and Favourites tooke Bribes", biographers continue to debate about Bacon's sexual inclinations and the precise nature of his personal relationships. Several authors believe that despite his marriage Bacon was primarily attracted to the same sex. Professor Forker for example has explored the "historically documentable sexual preferences" of both King James and Bacon – and concluded they were all oriented to "masculine love", a contemporary term that "seems to have been used exclusively to refer to the sexual preference of men for members of their own gender." The Jacobean antiquarian, Sir Simonds D'Ewes implied there had been a question of bringing him to trial for buggery.

This conclusion has been disputed by others, who point to lack of consistent evidence, and consider the sources to be more open to interpretation. In his "New Atlantis", Bacon describes his utopian island as being "the chastest nation under heaven", in which there was no prostitution or adultery, and further saying that "as for masculine love, they have no touch of it".

The succession of James I brought Bacon into greater favor. He was knighted in 1603. In another shrewd move, Bacon wrote his Apologie in defence of his proceedings in the case of Essex, as Essex had favoured James to succeed to the throne.

Bacon's public career ended in disgrace in 1621. After he fell into debt, a Parliamentary Committee on the administration of the law charged him with twenty-three separate counts of corruption. To the lords, who sent a committee to enquire whether a confession was really his, he replied, "My lords, it is my act, my hand, and my heart; I beseech your lordships to be merciful to a broken reed." He was sentenced to a fine of £40,000 and committed to the Tower of London during the king's pleasure; the imprisonment lasted only a few days and the fine was remitted by the king. More seriously, parliament declared Bacon incapable of holding future office or sitting in parliament. He narrowly escaped undergoing degradation, which would have stripped him of his titles of nobility. Subsequently the disgraced viscount devoted himself to study and writing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Bacon


Can we trust King James and The Authorized King James Version.?

It would be unwise. :no:

[gripreaper]

i have been trying to find out if the doctrine of reincarnation is true, for if true then the Bible is false

How can you say this? There is ample evidence in the bible of reincarnation. This has been pointed out numerous times in this thread.

The underlying idea of reincarnation and karma is very simple. Human perfection ("salvation") is the assured destiny of the spiritual self of everyone. Reincarnation, as the evolutionary method, provides the necessary time and opportunity for self-perfecting. The law of action and constantly modified reaction ensures justice to all. "God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows." (Gal 6:7b – NIV) The attainment of perfection is rendered certain by the interior presence of an infinite, divine power ceaselessly at work within the spiritual self of every human being.

Jesus of Nazareth, himself, taught reincarnation and that those around him took it for granted. There are passages in the Bible where it is evident that Jesus' inner circle understood and accepted reincarnation as part of the natural mechanism of humanity's spiritual journey.

When Jesus said: "You must be born again" (Jn 3:7b – NIV), he was talking about reincarnation. When Jesus said: ".... before Abraham was born, I am!" (Jn 8:58b – NIV), he was talking about reincarnation. When Jesus, perhaps with Malachi 4:5 in mind, explained to the crowd that John the Baptist was the reincarnation of Elijah (Mt 11:7-15), he was talking about just that.

It seems that the people around Jesus were equally at home with the reality of reincarnation. On one occasion Jesus asked his disciples: "Who do people say the Son of Man is?" They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets." (Mt 16:13b-14 - NIV) In other words, people were taking the view that John or Elijah or Jeremiah had been reincarnated as the Son of Man.

On another occasion, Jesus and his group encountered a man who was congenitally blind. The disciples asked Jesus: "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" "Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life...." (Jn 9:2b-3 - NIV)

The question as to whether the man himself had sinned and in consequence had been sightless shows the clear thought that justice demanded that the transgression should have occurred in a physical body. As this could only have happened in a former life on Earth, belief in reincarnation is implicit in the question. In the disciples' minds the man might have been born blind because of events in one of his previous lives.

There were plenty of explicit references to reincarnation in both the Old and New Testaments of the Bible (in the texts as originally given), including many clear statements on the subject by Jesus himself, but these references were edited out of the Bible for political reasons in the sixth century.

Prior to the Second Council of Constantinople in 553 CE, the indications are that there had been many clear references to reincarnation in the Bible. But Justinian I (483-565), an energetic Byzantine Emperor, and his wife, didn't like the idea of reincarnation – it tended to reduce the power of priest-caste dogma, and therefore their own power – so they convoked the Council and, among much other gerrymandering, got the Church Fathers to issue a decree to remove most of the references to reincarnation from the extant biblical texts.

But in the early Christian communities, reincarnation was a datum. Origen (c185-254) asks: "Is it not more in conformity with reason that every soul for certain mysterious reasons is introduced into a body, and introduced according to its deserts and former actions? Is it not rational that souls should be introduced into bodies, in accordance with their merits and previous deeds, and that those who have used their bodies in doing the utmost possible good should have a right to bodies endowed with qualities superior to the bodies of others? The soul, which is immaterial and invisible in its nature, exists in no material place without having a body suited to the nature of that place; accordingly, it at one time puts off one body, which was necessary before, but which is no longer adequate in its changed state, and it exchanges it for a second." (from 'Contra Celsum')

And in another place, Origen says: "The soul has no beginning nor end. Every soul comes into this world strengthened by the victories or weakened by the defeats of its previous life. Its place in this world as a vessel appointed to honour or dishonour is determined by its previous merits or demerits. Its work in this world determines its place in the world which is to follow this." (from 'De Principiis')

These two passages from Origen are cited in "Reincarnation: An East-West Anthology" edited by J.Head & S.L.Cranston (1961); Quest Books ISBN 0-8356-0035-1.

Among several books of scriptural status which were kept out of the official church Bible, perhaps for fear that they might empower the vulgar, was the Pistis Sophia. In this text there is a passage in which Jesus explains a little more about the reincarnation of Elijah as John the Baptist than the Bible (at Mt 11:7-15) has space for: "I found Elisabeth, the mother of John the Baptist, before she had conceived him and I cast into her a power which I had received from the Little Jao, the Good, who is in the Midst, so that he should be able to preach before me, and prepare my way and baptise with water of forgiveness. Now that power was in the body of John. And again, in place of the soul of the archons which he was due to receive, I found the soul of the prophet Elias in the aeons of the sphere; and I took it in and I took his soul again; I brought it to the Virgin of the Light, and she gave it to her paralemptors. They brought it to the sphere of the archons, and they cast it into the womb of Elisabeth. But the power of the Little Jao, he of the Midst, and the soul of the prophet Elias were bound in the body of John the Baptist." (Pistis Sophia - Book 1 - Chapter 7)

[Beren]

Kreagle

I agree with you fully. Also my comment wasn't for you since you weren't harsh to anyone.

Generally this reply is for all from me onwards;

There are manyfold divisions with and among humans.
Divisions that put us in a corner where we think that we are right and someone is wrong.

Even when seeing those miracles first hand - all abandoned Christ.

Fear criples humans.
Out of fear humans seek various explanations just to be able to put this that they experienced in a tight box.
Why ?

Because we cannot believe who we are. We are Gods who are growing up. Christ explained this to us and confirmed by power given from God the Father. Creator of life.

But we still cannot believe this ultimate truth.
Our ancestors didn't thus arranged Christ 's murder.
Only you cannot kill God. Thus it was allowed this whole theatrical murded just for all to see few days later that Christ is alive.

Today we hide behind our science which tells us we are lab rats of nature or some aliens.
All in the same time shifting our focus from finding answers in us.
In going deeply within to the realm of soul.
Or if you speak about soul matters there are spirit traps everywhere so that fear will stop you from ultimate truth of us- being divine.

We are so afraid of our nature hence the responsibility for our deeds so we hide in modern science or religions or philosophy. Neither of those will help us unless we accept who we are and rise above current way of thought and way of acting.

Bible is very right and not a lie for it shows human fallen nature at its best.

But to be God and beyond this all , you and me should rise above Bible, religions of all kind,quasi science, basically all misleading things. Connecting directly to the soul thus God who created it.

Otherwise this will continue . This quarrel of ours down here on Earth.
Who is right or wrong while life passes by.

Life - everything around us can and is teaching us.
Eyes to see and ears to hear ?

[RedeZra]

this Book has stood the test of time for almost two millennia

and has been the bedrock of western civilisation





Oh yes, especially when this Book was changed without our knowledge. :biggrin1:
To sort out what is true and what is a lie is the biggest challenge. Think about King James and his connection with Francis Bacon.

According to AMORC Francis Bacon was Rosicrucian but William R. Denslow's "10,000 Famous Freemasons" listed him as a Freemason.

---

Can we trust King James and The Authorized King James Version.?

It would be unwise. :no:


problem solved


we can just check the English translation called the King James version

up against the Greek Septuagint or the Hebrew Tanakh itself


this is not a problem

there is nothing wrong with the translation


why would anyone insinuate that there is a translation problem when we can check this for ourselves ?

because they trust we have become stupid

[kreagle]

RedeZra,

It's been awhile since I have posted here, or commented to this OP, by you. I see that you have "changed" the "original title" from.......let the Bible speak,......to......the Bible,.....since I posted last in March. That's interesting.

I'll have to say that even I am left somewhat confused as to what your personal beliefs are. I can understand the confusion that others are experiencing.

Perhaps it would help "clear up" a lot of confusion if you would be specific and relate to us all exactly what a person needs to do in order to be saved,......in a "complete" and "simple" Bible-based explanation.

If you would rather converse about this in a PM, I understand, and am perfectly OK with that.

I await your reply.

Love and Peace,.......kreagle

G'day kreagle,

This thread has always been called "the Bible"... The reference you made in one of your earlier responses to me was about the opening posts first line which says 'let the Bible speak'.

This thread was started by RedeZra following a number of discussions in other threads which critiqued some notable apologists scholars.

As for RedeZra's philosophy. I have a great amount of respect for his knowledge of early Christian Church history and while he tends to "colour" it with his perspective he stays fairly well with the creationist/apologist beliefs. While I don't believe anywhere near the same as he does (I am not a theist) his knowledge in this area has assisted me by supplying additional references and points of research in related fields (to which I have thanked him a number of times). The trouble that I have had, over the many discussions that I've had with Red, is that when I present evidence that is contrary to his understanding he simply says that it is a lie made up by the establishment/cabal/"insert name here" (this is why I often use creationist/apologist sources in discussions with him).

I haven't been back to this thread since you asked me to honour RedeZra's opening posts request and 'let the Bible speak'. I had been supplying evidence that showed there were obvious problems with the presented material (any of Ron Wyatt's material for example) until then. As this thread is about the Bible it should be open to critiques of the Bible. As an example I would say that there is no evidence, outside of the Bible and tradition (baring a short unrelated inscription), that the entire "Exodus" account ever occurred. This doesn't mean there weren't some Israelites in Egypt at the time in question, rather that the view of them all being slaves and the rest of the story is based on tradition and not fact.

The same goes for the New Testament. There is little evidence that an historical Jesus existed (though I view there was probably a "roaming preacher" who went by this name as it was common in the period) in any historical documentation (the Jospehus quote is a notable exception but is generally accepted as a later addition around the time of Eusebius [4th Century CE]) and there is amply archaeological evidence that Nazareth didn't exist until late in the 1st Century CE. I've presented evidence to back up what I've said throughout this thread and I don't feel the need to repeat myself.

From my various discussions with RedeZra my understanding of his philosophy, it being so closely associated with the fundamentalist one, to be "saved" a person would need:

to follow the various Bible commandments to the letter,
be "born again" (ie accept Jesus as your personal saviour),
believe in the resurrection and ascension of Jesus and finally
believe that the Bible, in its entirety (ie OT and NT), is the true and inspired word of God.

Maybe he has additional personal beliefs regarding dietary and hygiene requirements (some fundamentalists do) but his beliefs seem fairly creationist/orthodox to me.
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

panopticon,

Long time,.....no see!,....or hear from!

1) I have no problem, whatsoever, in carrying on discussions with you. Our "opinions" are, indeed, almost "polar opposites",....but I have found you to be cordial and civil in most of your responses.

2) I really do consider you to be "highly intelligent" and well versed,....just misguided in many,.....and most,....of your "religious undertakings". I say "undertakings" because I have seen and observed a keen desire in you,....to the point of being a "quest",...... to seek out,.....disprove,.....denounce,.....and destroy anything associated with "the recorded Sacred Scriptures". Intellectualism is a wonderful thing to be in possession of,....."if",....it does not come at the expense of excluding God and His Word.

1 Corinthians 1:20-22
King James Version (KJV)

20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

panopticon,......."if" you are really as "intelligent as I think you are, I believe you will one day, very soon, be re-thinking some of your "current positions". As things begin to escalate in our current world,....economy,.....etc.,.....I think you are going to begin to start to see the "big picture",.....as to what is "really going on".

The "Truth" is going to come out,.....you can rest assured of that!

And finally,......

3) Why, in the world, are you being a "spokesman" for RedeZra? Surely he is capable of "speaking for himself"!!!

Good to hear from you, again!

Love and Peace,.......kreagle

[starninja]

this Book has stood the test of time for almost two millennia

and has been the bedrock of western civilisation





Oh yes, especially when this Book was changed without our knowledge. :biggrin1:
To sort out what is true and what is a lie is the biggest challenge. Think about King James and his connection with Francis Bacon.

According to AMORC Francis Bacon was Rosicrucian but William R. Denslow's "10,000 Famous Freemasons" listed him as a Freemason.

---

Can we trust King James and The Authorized King James Version.?

It would be unwise. :no:


problem solved


we can just check the English translation called the King James version

up against the Greek Septuagint or the Hebrew Tanakh itself


this is not a problem

there is nothing wrong with the translation


why would anyone insinuate that there is a translation problem when we can check this for ourselves ?

because they trust we have become stupid


Well, I don’t speak Greek so the problem is not solved yet. :lol: Second, we need to ask why the Bible has been changed over the years. Who is doing it and why? Kings James Bible differs from later versions. Furthermore, The Jehovah Witness Bible has been altered. We also have The Vulgate Bible that differs from King James Version.
So which book is the bedrock of western civilization? Catholic Vulgate Bible? King James Version, New International Version, to name a few? I don’t even want to mention Jehovah Witness Version.

But it is only a part of the problem as I have many questions regarding the Old Testament. I also need to dig deeper why Christians refused the Old Testament.

[RedeZra]

i have been trying to find out if the doctrine of reincarnation is true, for if true then the Bible is false

How can you say this? There is ample evidence in the bible of reincarnation.


there is just one passage where Jesus asks the apostles

who do the people say that i am ?


the people had only heard about the old prophets

and so since Jesus acted like a prophet

they simply thought He was somone like one of them

old prophets they had heard about





The underlying idea of reincarnation and karma is very simple. Human perfection ("salvation") is the assured destiny of the spiritual self of everyone. Reincarnation, as the evolutionary method, provides the necessary time and opportunity for self-perfecting.


in the Bible salvation is only to those who accept Jesus as the Saviour of their souls

and obey His commands





The law of action and constantly modified reaction ensures justice to all. "God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows." (Gal 6:7b – NIV) The attainment of perfection is rendered certain by the interior presence of an infinite, divine power ceaselessly at work within the spiritual self of every human being.


in the Bible this is not karma but God's justice





When Jesus said: "You must be born again" (Jn 3:7b – NIV), he was talking about reincarnation. When Jesus said: ".... before Abraham was born, I am!" (Jn 8:58b – NIV), he was talking about reincarnation. When Jesus, perhaps with Malachi 4:5 in mind, explained to the crowd that John the Baptist was the reincarnation of Elijah (Mt 11:7-15), he was talking about just that.


in the Bible to be born again means to receive the Holy spirit

and has nothing to do with the doctrine of reincarnation


and when Jesus said before Abraham was born I AM

He was alluding to His divinity for those with ears to hear


when Jesus says that John the Baptist is Elijah

then he must be

and he can be

since Elijah like Enoch

never underwent physical death

like all the rest of us





On another occasion, Jesus and his group encountered a man who was congenitally blind. The disciples asked Jesus: "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" "Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life...." (Jn 9:2b-3 - NIV)

The question as to whether the man himself had sinned and in consequence had been sightless shows the clear thought that justice demanded that the transgression should have occurred in a physical body. As this could only have happened in a former life on Earth, belief in reincarnation is implicit in the question. In the disciples' minds the man might have been born blind because of events in one of his previous lives.


God simply blinded this man so He could heal him

and turn him back to Him

and so used him as an example for all the people to see

the healing powers of God

so they would turn to Him too

[RedeZra]

Well, I don’t speak Greek so the problem is not solved yet. :lol: Second, we need to ask why the Bible has been changed over the years. Who is doing it and why? Kings James Bible differs from later versions. Furthermore, The Jehovah Witness Bible has been altered. We also have The Vulgate Bible that differs from King James Version.
So which book is the bedrock of western civilization? Catholic Vulgate Bible? King James Version, New International Version, to name a few? I don’t even want to mention Jehovah Witness Version.


stick to the old ones


for today even satan publishes bibles

and so some new versions

are missing spiritual warfare verses


what a snake





But it is only a part of the problem as I have many questions regarding the Old Testament. I also need to dig deeper why Christians refused the Old Testament.


not Christians but Gnostics

they refuse God of the Old Testament


and so do the illuminati

well they refuse God of the New Testament as well


and the Holy spirit would you believe

[starninja]

Well, I don’t speak Greek so the problem is not solved yet. :lol: Second, we need to ask why the Bible has been changed over the years. Who is doing it and why? Kings James Bible differs from later versions. Furthermore, The Jehovah Witness Bible has been altered. We also have The Vulgate Bible that differs from King James Version.
So which book is the bedrock of western civilization? Catholic Vulgate Bible? King James Version, New International Version, to name a few? I don’t even want to mention Jehovah Witness Version.


stick to the old ones


for today even satan publishes bibles

and so some new versions

are missing spiritual warfare verses


what a snake





But it is only a part of the problem as I have many questions regarding the Old Testament. I also need to dig deeper why Christians refused the Old Testament.


not Christians but Gnostics

they refuse God of the Old Testament


and so do the illuminati

well they refuse God of the New Testament as well


and the Holy spirit would you believe

I don’t stick to any version but I ask questions and research. I have lot’s of questions.

No. I didn’t talk about Gnostics. Don’t mix two different issues. :wink:

[panopticon]

Well, I don’t speak Greek so the problem is not solved yet. :lol: Second, we need to ask why the Bible has been changed over the years. Who is doing it and why? Kings James Bible differs from later versions. Furthermore, The Jehovah Witness Bible has been altered. We also have The Vulgate Bible that differs from King James Version.
So which book is the bedrock of western civilization? Catholic Vulgate Bible? King James Version, New International Version, to name a few? I don’t even want to mention Jehovah Witness Version.

But it is only a part of the problem as I have many questions regarding the Old Testament. I also need to dig deeper why Christians refused the Old Testament.

G'day Starninja,

Earlier in this thread Observer presented this talk by Ehrman which might answer some of you questions in regards to alterations of the Bibles text:

O-1hdqNDQ9E
@ kreagle:

I have been very busy with other research/threads and I didn't feel I could add more to this discussion. I appreciate that you have decided to adopted a civil tone towards me.

As for 'being a "spokesman" for RedeZra' I was putting forward my understanding of this threads origin (I've been a participant since its beginning and in some of the ones that came before it) and how I saw Red's beliefs in relation to orthodox Christianity. I most assuredly know that Red is able to speak for himself... It's shutting him up that's the problem :becky: (and I wouldn't dream of trying because I believe that his perspective is equally valid as anyone elses).

@ RedeZra -- A belated welcome back from "holiday" mate.
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

[RedeZra]

But it is only a part of the problem as I have many questions regarding the Old Testament. I also need to dig deeper why Christians refused the Old Testament.


not Christians but Gnostics

they refuse God of the Old Testament




No. I didn’t talk about Gnostics. Don’t mix two different issues. :wink:


how shall i say this


no Christians refused or refuses God of the OT

but Gnostics did and do

[kreagle]

RedeZra,

It's been awhile since I have posted here, or commented to this OP, by you. I see that you have "changed" the "original title" from.......let the Bible speak,......to......the Bible,.....since I posted last in March. That's interesting.

I'll have to say that even I am left somewhat confused as to what your personal beliefs are. I can understand the confusion that others are experiencing.

Perhaps it would help "clear up" a lot of confusion if you would be specific and relate to us all exactly what a person needs to do in order to be saved,......in a "complete" and "simple" Bible-based explanation.




hi Kreagle

the thread title has always been the Bible

but in my first post here i wrote let the Bible speak


this thread was ment to explore what the Bible says about our origin history and destiny

and look for facts artifacts and testimonies that back the Bible up


this Book has stood the test of time for almost two millennia

and has been the bedrock of western civilisation


but today governments have rejected this cornerstone

and are doing things in direct opposition to what is written there


the Bible has obviously become too radical for the State

and so it ridicules and rejects what is supposed to be the inspired word of the Creator


so i wanted to find out

if the Bible is the written word of God

for myself


and that is why i made this thread




about being saved

people say saved from what


what did Jesus save those who accept Him from ?


you tell me Kreagle ; )

RedeZra,

You are correct in your statement about the "title" of the thread always being "the Bible",.....and I was in error.

My error came as a result of a response I had with panopticon in post #770 of this thread. I had asked, and reminded him, to reflect back on your "opening remark",....which does,....as you also pointed out,.....say "let the Bible speak". I had "highlighted" this opening remark,....that stuck in my mind,.....and consequently caused my error.

I'm sorry. No disrespect intended!

There is some "common ground" that we share, on "many" topics covered here and on "other" threads, also.

You are correct about our "differences" on a topic called the "trinity". As such, I feel that our "differences" probably go even deeper, in that, I equally have a problem, and cannot accept Catholicism, for the same reason.

I, equally sense, that you have Catholic ties,.....whether strong or not,....I don't know.

Let it be said, here, that I fully respect what you are endeavoring to do here. You have literally caught "mortal Hell" for many of your views. Even to the point of "getting to go on vacation" on a few occasions!!

You basically have "avoided the question" I have asked in being saved, or attaining salvation,.....and thrown the ball "back in my court", ......by saying, and concluding with,.......you tell me, kreagle.

As for the moment,......I intend to "chew on this",....for a short period of time. An "answer", in depth, is forthcoming.

I have no intentions of being inflammatory to anyone,.....ANYONE!,....here at Avalon,...or any "visitor" who may read this.

Truth be told,......."we" are all "brothers",......and I mean that in every possible way!!!

I have a "Revelation" that "few in life" get to experience.

I want to share that "Revelation",......every single last precious Word of It!!!

There is,.......

Ephesians 4:5
King James Version (KJV)

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

An "answer", in depth, is coming!

Your "friend" and "brother",........kreagle

[starninja]

G'day Starninja,

Earlier in this thread Observer presented this talk by Ehrman which might answer some of you questions in regards to alterations of the Bibles text:

O-1hdqNDQ9E




Thank you. I will look at this video but I have to finish Egyptian Book of Dead first. Very heavy subject and I have noticed that it affected me emotionally not in a positive way but I need to finish it.

Anyway, the Bible, religions, and mythology is quite interesting subject.

I am leaving this forum for good. I have returned here to get my answer and I can happily move on. :)

On my last note, I want to post an art. An interesting paintings by Rubens for a member of Medici family who established 4 Popes. :biggrin1:



The Medici produced four Popes of the Catholic Church—Pope Leo X (1513–1521),Pope Clement VII (1523–1534), Pope Pius IV (1559–1565), and Pope Leo XI (1605); two regent queens of France—Catherine de' Medici (1547–1559) and Marie de' Medici(1600–1610); and, in 1531, the family became hereditary Dukes of Florence. In 1569, the duchy was elevated to a grand duchy after territorial expansion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Medici

Marie de Médicis (1575 – 4 July 1642), Italian Maria de' Medici, was Queen consort of France, as the second wife of King Henry IV of France, of the House of Bourbon. A series of twenty-four triumphant canvases were commissioned from Peter Paul Rubens. Quite interesting paintings from a member of Medici family who established 4 Popes.


The first painting of the narrative cycle, The Destiny of Marie de' Medici, is a twisting composition of the three Fates on clouds beneath the celestial figures of Juno and Jupiter.

http://www.wga.hu/art/r/rubens/40histor/08medici.jpg






The Education of Marie de' Medici. We see Apollo, Athena, and Hermes

http://www.peterpaulrubens.org/101289/The-Education-of-Marie-de%27-Medici-1622-24-large.jpg






http://www.wga.hu/art/r/rubens/40histor/07medici.jpg

Rubens, Marie de Médicis as Bellona ( goddess Athena)







http://www.wga.hu/art/r/rubens/40histor/071medic.jpg

Rubens, The Apotheosis of Henry IV and the Proclamation of the Regency of Marie de Médicis on May 14, 1610 (detail)








And the most interesting titled Paintings for Maria de Medici, Queen of France, scene the government of the queen. :lol:


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/Peter_Paul_Rubens_042.jpg

[panopticon]

G'day Kreagle,


I have no intentions of being inflammatory to anyone,.....ANYONE!,....here at Avalon,...or any "visitor" who may read this.

Truth be told,......."we" are all "brothers",......and I mean that in every possible way!!!

I'm not a theist so every time you imply/state that Jesus is "the only truth" from my perspective you are being inflammatory. This thread is about the Bible and as such I expect a bit of "Bible bashing" but please remember that many members of Avalon are not Christian, nor wish to be "preached at" and that every time you declare your version of "absolute truth" you are being inflammatory.

A case in point:


I have a "Revelation" that "few in life" get to experience.

I want to share that "Revelation",......every single last precious Word of It!!!

There is,.......

Ephesians 4:5
King James Version (KJV)

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

I don't believe there is any personified deity, nor a describable faith (we can not describe the indescribable) and hence no need for a baptism (unless I've been working all day and need a bath).

My interest in the Bible relates to the control structures that formed around it as a means of consolidating power.

I'll buggar off now and leave all you monotheists to "duke it out" over who knows "the truth" best and whose dogma barks the loudest.
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

[kreagle]

G'day Kreagle,


I have no intentions of being inflammatory to anyone,.....ANYONE!,....here at Avalon,...or any "visitor" who may read this.

Truth be told,......."we" are all "brothers",......and I mean that in every possible way!!!

I'm not a theist so every time you imply/state that Jesus is "the only truth" from my perspective you are being inflammatory. This thread is about the Bible and as such I expect a bit of "Bible bashing" but please remember that many members of Avalon are not Christian, nor wish to be "preached at" and that every time you declare your version of "absolute truth" you are being inflammatory.

A case in point:


I have a "Revelation" that "few in life" get to experience.

I want to share that "Revelation",......every single last precious Word of It!!!

There is,.......

Ephesians 4:5
King James Version (KJV)

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

I don't believe there is any personified deity, nor a describable faith (we can not describe the indescribable) and hence no need for a baptism (unless I've been working all day and need a bath).

My interest in the Bible relates to the control structures that formed around it as a means of consolidating power.

I'll buggar off now and leave all you monotheists to "duke it out" over who knows "the truth" best and whose dogma barks the loudest.
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

panopticon,

What you are saying is the "equivalent" to a large group of baseball fans electing to discuss the long and illustrious record and history of the "New York Yankees",......and having an "individual" make up the "following ground rule",......."It is hereby prohibited to bring up,....in any way,......the name of "Babe Ruth",.....or relate to his accomplishments,.....or his overall worth to the team franchise, etc.,...during this discussion!

-OR-

Conducting a "national survey" on the history of "Country Western Cowboy Classics",......but the name of "John Wayne" cannot be mentioned,.....anywhere!

(point)

There are "certain things" that just simply cannot be excluded!!!

You cannot "exclude" Jesus Christ,......His role,.......His Deity,......His position,.....from "the Bible"

You take "Jesus" out of the Bible,........and all you have left,.....is "just a meaningless book"!!!,......that I, personally, wouldn't give 5 cents for!!

You state that,....."please remember that many members of Avalon are not Christian",.....to which I reply,....."why, then, would they "click on a thread" titled "the Bible"?? You see,.....I "personally" don't like "hunting", as a sport,.....so I don't read magazines about "hunting". It's really simple!

On top of this,.....you haven't heard the "full story" yet,......

Don't you think you are being a little hasty with your criticism?

Patience,.....my friend.........kreagle

[RedeZra]

does Jesus exist ?

is Jesus alive ?


if you have not met Him then you may think He is not alive

if you have met Him then you may think He is alive


so many say they have met Jesus and been healed and helped by Him

they take the time and effort to testify about their meeting with Him


so it seems many have met Jesus


does that mean He is alive ?

could it be that Jesus exists even though you have not met Him

or does His existence depend on your observation of Him ?


do you think that Jesus does not exist just because you have not seen Him ?

then you must think that the millions who have seen and met Him are delusional or lying


i don't understand how intelligent people can ignore the many testimonies about Jesus

and keep on denying His existence when they never met Him


have you been drinking too much tap water ?

[gripreaper]

Sorry Red, but you can’t just interpret the scrolls to fit your agenda. You can’t have it both ways.

You can’t have free will on the one hand, and manifest destiny on the other. Either there is free will or there is not.

You can’t interpret the scrolls subjectively when you want, and literally when you want.

You cannot say Jesus meant ‘this or that” when it is inconsistent with the true history of the texts.

You cannot say that the bible is the unadulterated and unmitigated protected and fully inspired word of god, when history shows us it has been altered many times.

You cannot say reincarnation is not in the bible, and that many of the texts which referenced reincarnation were not removed, because they were.

You cannot say that god has human emotions of anger and such, since to “emote" requires a body, and the Old Testament is full of god’s angst with his creation.

You can’t say god is omniscient and omnipresent, and knew all things before creation, because he apparently made some egregious errors with the Nephilim and his inability to eradicate such of his own failed creations.

You can’t say god is all loving when you read Deuteronomy, Leviticus, and Numbers and all the absolutely inhumane and atrocious acts done by god referenced there.

You can’t say the god of the bible is the supreme creator god and not an alien Achron when the facts are clear about this in regards to the age of the planet and the many civilizations prior to Adam and Eve.

You can’t say monotheism is not a creation of the elite of Egypt, when Elohim is “many gods” and it is historical fact that there are many gods.


I can go on and on and on and on, with many references and FACTS from history, and many references from this thread alone.

What you can say, is YOU have a subjective belief based on subjective interpretations of subjective information.

That would at least be honest and true, but your approach is NOT honest and true, but patronizing, disrespectful and dismissive of others points of view. I find your subjectivity quite alarming and utterly patronizing, to say the least.

I’m throwing my hands up and wondering why I even bother. You don’t hear a single word I say. You’re incorrigible.

Once again, I'm done.

[RedeZra]

You are correct about our "differences" on a topic called the "trinity". As such, I feel that our "differences" probably go even deeper, in that, I equally have a problem, and cannot accept Catholicism, for the same reason.

I, equally sense, that you have Catholic ties,.....whether strong or not,....I don't know.

Let it be said, here, that I fully respect what you are endeavoring to do here. You have literally caught "mortal Hell" for many of your views. Even to the point of "getting to go on vacation" on a few occasions!!




tnx i just love vacations ; )


i have no Catholic ties

but i believe the Catholic foundation is sound


and that satan has struggled with the Church for a long time

trying to corrupt and subvert it


and that he has been successful

but the Catholic foundation is still sound

[RedeZra]

You can’t have free will on the one hand, and manifest destiny on the other. Either there is free will or there is not.

only God is Absolute

and God gave humanity 6000 years to do away with sin

and for satan to play himself out

after that Judgement





You cannot say that the bible is the unadulterated and unmitigated protected and fully inspired word of god, when history shows us it has been altered many times.


God knows how to preserve and protect His words

and history has shown that satan has been busy

inspiring people to make counterfeits to the Gospels






You cannot say reincarnation is not in the bible, and that many of the texts which referenced reincarnation were not removed, because they were.

there is no doctrine of reincarnation in the Bible

we just got this one life on earth

to stay away from the snares of satan

and not succumb to him nor our own sinful desires




You cannot say that god has human emotions of anger and such, since to “emote" requires a body, and the Old Testament is full of god’s angst with his creation.


why can't God have emotions ?

God is trying to raise a family fit for the Kingdom of God

and satan is a stumbling block to us

as well as our carnal mind and flesh





You can’t say god is omniscient and omnipresent, and knew all things before creation, because he apparently made some egregious errors with the Nephilim and his inability to eradicate such of his own failed creations.


God knew that some of His angels would rebel and meddle in the affairs of mankind

so He could stop them before they did that

but then again God don't create robots





You can’t say god is all loving when you read Deuteronomy, Leviticus, and Numbers and all the absolutely inhumane and atrocious acts done by god referenced there.


God is Holy

and do not tolerate sin

just ask Sodom and Gomorrah





You can’t say the god of the bible is the supreme creator god and not an alien Achron when the facts are clear about this in regards to the age of the planet and the many civilizations prior to Adam and Eve.


there was a worldwide Flood which wiped out everything except those in the Ark

the official age of the planet must back up the theory of evolution

so question is if you believe them or not





You can’t say monotheism is not a creation of the elite of Egypt, when Elohim is “many gods” and it is historical fact that there are many gods.


elohim in the Bible means God god or gods

i'm sure i tried to explain this to you before


God also created gods or angels

[cloud9]

Hello Red,
I wanted to ask you if you have seen the video posted in this page, Bart D. Ehrman and his findings and what is your opinion about it.

[observer]

[....snip]

not Christians but Gnostics

they refuse God of the Old Testament


and so do the illuminati

well they refuse God of the New Testament as well


and the Holy spirit would you believe

This, Red, from my perspective, is among the most obscene statements you've made on this thread, an attempt to connect the Gnostic Christians to the illuminati.

This all reflects your convoluted fundamentalist version of Christianity - Trinity Christianity.

The evidence indicates that the Gnostic Christians were the evolution of the message of Yeshua ben Joseph. This Gnostic Christian understanding is the true interpretation of John 8:44, where Yeshua was speaking directly to the Pharisees in the temple.

Yeshua ben Joseph was a Nazarene Essene. The archeological record indicates these particular Essenes denounced the God of the Old Testament, Yahweh.

It's all part of the evidential trail discovered, unmolested, after being buried in the Egyptian desert nearly 2000 years after it was all spirited-away by the direct followers of Yeshua - the true Christians who were unmercifully massacred by the Roman Empire in an agenda to create Trinity Christianity, and the Holy Roman Empire.

It saddens my heart to read this fundamentalist drivel that you continue to espouse as the 'True Word of God'.


You refuse to look at the evidence.

You continue to preach a failed dogma.

Your persistence to sell this failed theology, here in this forum, is an insult to the hundreds of millions of hallowed souls that have been unmercifully slaughtered in the name of this unholy Trinity.

John 8:44
King James Version (KJV)
"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

[gripreaper]

The evidence indicates that the Gnostic Christians were the evolution of the message of Yeshua ben Joseph. This Gnostic Christian understanding is the true interpretation of John 8:44, where Yeshua was speaking directly to the Pharisees in the temple.

Yeshua ben Joseph was a Nazarene Essene. The archeological record indicates these particular Essenes denounced the God of the Old Testament, Yahweh.

Absolutely. The gnostic teachings (gnostic just means knowledge) of the ancients from Atlantis (pre-deluge)was preserved by the Essene's and practiced along side the Jewish and Hebrew sects at the time of Yeshua. What remained was still taught in the Egyptian temples, which Yeshua studied these teachings in those temples during the lost years from age 12 to 30. Yeshua also went to India where he tutored under the immortal Babaji and learned the ancient India teachings of the east.


It's all part of the evidential trail discovered, unmolested, after being buried in the Egyptian desert nearly 2000 years after it was all spirited-away by the direct followers of Yeshua - the true Christians who were unmercifully massacred by the Roman Empire in an agenda to create Trinity Christianity, and the Holy Roman Empire.

Yes, the Nag Hammadi scrolls, for those who have taken the time to study them, are very revealing about how the truth was altered and destroyed by the Roman elite and the christian churches in the last 2000 years. How timely that these scrolls were found, to open up the gnostic truths once again, showing the divine feminine, and the fallacy of Trinity Christianity. Yeshua's consort, Mary Magdalene, who represented the feminine aspect of the godhead and consummated this sacred union with Yeshua and bore a child with him named Sara, her gospel was also found at Nag Hammadhi. The wedding at Canan where Yeshua changed water into wine was his own wedding to Magdalene.

I have a piece of stone pottery which came from this cave, and was given to me when the scrolls made their tour of the United States, in Seattle. The ignoble truths and the energy of these truths are in that piece of stone, which sits on my desk in front of me as I type this. To know this truth brings the greatest joy, without condemnation, fear, torture, and the savage slaughter of all the gnostics, which exemplifies the history embedded and sold in the bible.


It saddens my heart to read this fundamentalist drivel that you continue to espouse as the 'True Word of God'.

You refuse to look at the evidence.

You continue to preach a failed dogma.

Your persistence to sell this failed theology, here in this forum, is an insult to the hundreds of millions of hallowed souls that have been unmercifully slaughtered in the name of this unholy Trinity.

It saddens me to no end as well. The fundamentalist dogma proselytized and parroted, bastardized from the truth, yet so keenly packaged as truth, that so many have succumbed to... this audacious slavery fear mongering control system, and not even know it...is utterly astounding to me.

[crested-duck]

The evidence indicates that the Gnostic Christians were the evolution of the message of Yeshua ben Joseph. This Gnostic Christian understanding is the true interpretation of John 8:44, where Yeshua was speaking directly to the Pharisees in the temple.

Yeshua ben Joseph was a Nazarene Essene. The archeological record indicates these particular Essenes denounced the God of the Old Testament, Yahweh.

Absolutely. The gnostic teachings (gnostic just means knowledge) of the ancients from Atlantis (pre-deluge)was preserved by the Essene's and practiced along side the Jewish and Hebrew sects at the time of Yeshua. What remained was still taught in the Egyptian temples, which Yeshua studied these teachings in those temples during the lost years from age 12 to 30. Yeshua also went to India where he tutored under the immortal Babaji and learned the ancient India teachings of the east.


It's all part of the evidential trail discovered, unmolested, after being buried in the Egyptian desert nearly 2000 years after it was all spirited-away by the direct followers of Yeshua - the true Christians who were unmercifully massacred by the Roman Empire in an agenda to create Trinity Christianity, and the Holy Roman Empire.

Yes, the Nag Hammadi scrolls, for those who have taken the time to study them, are very revealing about how the truth was altered and destroyed by the Roman elite and the christian churches in the last 2000 years. How timely that these scrolls were found, to open up the gnostic truths once again, showing the divine feminine, and the fallacy of Trinity Christianity. Yeshua's consort, Mary Magdalene, who represented the feminine aspect of the godhead and consummated this sacred union with Yeshua and bore a child with him named Sara, her gospel was also found at Nag Hammadhi. The wedding at Canan where Yeshua changed water into wine was his own wedding to Magdalene.


It saddens my heart to read this fundamentalist drivel that you continue to espouse as the 'True Word of God'.

You refuse to look at the evidence.

You continue to preach a failed dogma.

Your persistence to sell this failed theology, here in this forum, is an insult to the hundreds of millions of hallowed souls that have been unmercifully slaughtered in the name of this unholy Trinity.

It saddens me to no end as well. The fundamentalist dogma proselytized and parroted, bastardized from the truth, yet so keenly packaged as truth, that so many have succumbed to... this audacious slavery fear mongering control system, and not even know it...is utterly astounding to me. I agree with this post totally!-Don't waste your time trying to educate or convert Red Ezra, he has chosen his path and made his bed. Now he must walk it and lay in it himself, and eventually find out the truth for himself.-Rob- Just remember-what you sow you reap, more than you sowed and later than you originally sowed it.

[GCS1103]

What makes anyone here think Red needs to be "converted or educated"? Converted to what others think? His beliefs are as valid as anyone else's here. I did some internet research on Bart Ehrman and it didn't take very long to find scathing reviews of his books and research. Who here can say that they know the "truth"? Watching a video of Bart Ehrman, while very interesting, doesn't prove anyone's point. For every Bart Ehrman, there's a counterpart that says his research is faulty. It took me less than 5 minutes to find his detractors.

Red- there are numerous members here that may not agree with your viewpoint, but appreciate your persistence and devotion. This forum is meant to promote an exchange of ideas, not a place to personally attack someone who disagrees with you.

[gripreaper]

What makes anyone here think Red needs to be "converted or educated"?

It should be obvious by now that Red does not hear anything said in this thread and is immutable from his beliefs. And that's all they are, his subjective beliefs.


This forum is meant to promote an exchange of ideas, not a place to personally attack someone who disagrees with you.

Bingo. This forum is supposed to be a place to exchange ideas, but that is not what happens in this thread. NOTHING is exchanged here. There is Red with his monologue on his soapbox, ignoring common discourse between sentient beings.

Yes, he is entitled to his opinion, but lets at least be clear about that. It's just his opinion. The historical facts presented are ignored.

So, I suggest the mods change the name of this thread to: "Red's private soap box"

[observer]

At last count, 2410 comments, and not in just this thread alone, GCS1103.

You may find his dogma enlightening, but most of the members on this forum are searching for a better understanding than that offered by a religious system that was created nearly two thousand years ago. A system that has been responsible for the countless massacre of untold numbers of innocent souls in the name of The God Of Love. It truly is an hypocrisy.

This was not the message of Yeshua ben Joseph.



"....I did some internet research on Bart Ehrman and it didn't take very long to find scathing reviews of his books and research. Who here can say that they know the "truth"? Watching a video of Bart Ehrman, while very interesting, doesn't prove anyone's point. For every Bart Ehrman, there's a counterpart that says his research is faulty. It took me less than 5 minutes to find his detractors."

Anyone can find debunking material about almost any researcher on the internet. There are debunkers of every researcher probing the fringes of the conventional reality.... even our own Bill Ryan has been debunked. The proof is in the accuracy of the individual's message. I would suggest you spend some time listening to Bart Ehrman. You might also note, most of Ehrman's detractors are Fundamentalist Christians.

To quote Bill Ryan from another, unrelated thread:



"The principal purpose of the Avalon Forum:
To encourage and support positive, constructive, and high quality dialog and networking with the goal of creating the future on Planet Earth for ourselves and our children that we want to experience."

I submit, this is not the work of Mr. RedeZra....

[GCS1103]

At last count, 2410 comments, and not in just this thread alone, GCS1103.

You may find his dogma enlightening, but most of the members on this forum are searching for a better understanding than that offered by a religious system that was created nearly two thousand years ago. A system that has been responsible for the countless massacre of untold numbers of innocent souls in the name of The God Of Love. It truly is an hypocrisy.

This was not the message of Yeshua ben Joseph.



"....I did some internet research on Bart Ehrman and it didn't take very long to find scathing reviews of his books and research. Who here can say that they know the "truth"? Watching a video of Bart Ehrman, while very interesting, doesn't prove anyone's point. For every Bart Ehrman, there's a counterpart that says his research is faulty. It took me less than 5 minutes to find his detractors."

Anyone can find debunking material about almost any researcher on the internet. There are debunkers of every researcher probing the fringes of the conventional reality.... even our own Bill Ryan has been debunked. The proof is in the accuracy of the individual's message. I would suggest you spend some time listening to Bart Ehrman. You might also note, most of Ehrman's detractors are Fundamentalist Christians.

To quote Bill Ryan from another, unrelated thread:



"The principal purpose of the Avalon Forum:
To encourage and support positive, constructive, and high quality dialog and networking with the goal of creating the future on Planet Earth for ourselves and our children that we want to experience."

I submit, this is not the work of Mr. RedeZra....

Observer- actually, some of Bart Ehrman's debunkers were athiests. But that's not the point. If you find Red's posts so offensive, why come here and aggravate yourself?

[Mark]

I appreciate Red's consistent good humor and respectfulness in the face of these constant attacks and belittling. I'm gone for a few months and come back to find him continuing to joke and smile with folks which I think is wonderful. Christ said we have to be as 'innocent as children' to enter the Kingdom of God. Go ahead and claim youth, Red, when folks ask how old you are. Continue to do your thing.

:clap2:

[GCS1103]

I appreciate Red's consistent good humor and respectfulness in the face of these constant attacks and belittling. I'm gone for a few months and come back to find him continuing to joke and smile with folks which I think is wonderful. Christ said we have to be as 'innocent as children' to enter the Kingdom of God. Go ahead and claim youth, Red, when folks ask how old you are. Continue to do your thing.

:clap2:

It's nice to see you here, my friend. You've been gone too long and have been missed...

[gripreaper]

I agree with this post totally!-Don't waste your time trying to educate or convert Red Ezra, he has chosen his path and made his bed. Now he must walk it and lay in it himself, and eventually find out the truth for himself.-Rob- Just remember-what you sow you reap, more than you sowed and later than you originally sowed it.

And this is why the universe is perfect in every way, and all things are in balance, for once we see the totality of divinity in all things, and move away from the limited linear perspective of one lifetime, it all makes perfect sense.

We need both polarized aspects of experience in order to create contrast, and god is not mocked, what we sow we reap. So, if we are a tyrant in this lifetime, we will be a victim in the next. This balances out the karma and after many incarnations, the soul is complete and ready to ascend, as Elijah did, who then returned as John the Baptist when Lord Sananda was on the planet as Yeshua ben Joseph.

Yeshua taught us that there is no death, that we are divine, and that greater things would we do than he had done, if we just understood our divinity as a mustard seed does. The Roman elite of his time tried to torture him and kill him, but Yeshua showed us that the body is transient but the soul lives forever and has always lived, so he said "Oh death, where is thy sting?" Unconditional love, as the love of a child, allows free will to be and do, and does not encroach upon that free will with dogma and fear. It takes many lifetimes to understand unconditional love, which the creator is, always has been, and always will be. The gods of the bible are not the creator of the perfect cosmos.

It all makes perfect sense when looked at in the context of unconditional love, compassion, wisdom and understanding, and not fear, inferiority, rules and judgments, torture, anger, and pagan blood sacrifices and murder.

The heart knows these ignoble truths from within, because the soul resides within each of us, the divinity of spirit, without any dogmatic fundamentalism, because love is unconditional and is in all things when in wholeness, and recognizes the polarized states of being as necessary for the growth of the soul, that we may recognize our own divinity. The peace and joy which comes from this truth cannot be measured by obedience to commandments, but by experiential love.

It is a choice we make in each moment. It is our free will choice.

[RedeZra]

[....snip]

not Christians but Gnostics

they refuse God of the Old Testament


and so do the illuminati

well they refuse God of the New Testament as well


and the Holy spirit would you believe


This, Red, from my perspective, is among the most obscene statements you've made on this thread, an attempt to connect the Gnostic Christians to the illuminati.




there is an evidential trail linking illuminati freemasonry knights templar cathar gnosticism


gnosticism is a little bit of this christianity and a little bit of that neoplatonism and a pinch of hermetism

ever evolving to suit the circumstances and not afraid to try something new

like cabala and eastern ideas and theosophy

all behind closed doors of course




here is an interesting article connecting some esoteric dots even though i do not agree with some of the conclusions of the author

http://secretsun.blogspot.no/2011/09/another-history-of-knights-templar.html

[modwiz]

Hey, Redezra. I have stood with you before and am more than pleased to do so again. You are a decent and loving man with a great sense of humor and not a 'one trick pony' by any means. You speak intelligently on a wide range of extra biblical subjects. I have many conclusions about details of the Bible very different than yours and that is why I rarely say anything in your threads. I respect what you offer from your heart in this thread and would need to question my own motives and spirituality to take you to task here.

I may not embrace the message, but I do like the messenger.

[greybeard]

Hey, Redezra. I have stood with you before and am more than pleased to do so again. You are a decent and loving man with a great sense of humor and not a 'one trick pony' by any means. You speak intelligently on a wide range of extra biblical subjects. I have many conclusions about details of the Bible very different than yours and that is why I rarely say anything in your threads. I respect what you offer from your heart in this thread and would need to question my own motives and spirituality to take you to task here.

I may not embrace the message, but I do like the messenger.

Well said and I stand with you as a long time friend of RedeZra.
Chris

[Billy]

[QUOTE=RedeZra;496256]
i can inform you that God is the inspiration and the protector of the Bible

so we don't have to listen to men for understanding

we just got to open the Book and read


Hi Red, I can agree that God is the inspiration of the words that he gave to his disciples to be written down, With the warning that nothing is to be taken away or added.
But there lies the problem Red, Because very important words and paragraphs were ommited when Rome the beast created the bible.





we got a lot of denominations based on the Bible so i don't think we need any more confusion in the mix

besides it is not about the Bible

Hi Red, according to the title of the thread and the OP, " Let the bible speak" and many of your comments and biblical quotes in this thread, One of your latest comments was that God was the protector of the bible, this thread is all about the bible. You would rather read the corrupted lie created by man that the true revelation given through John.

Truth helps expand your wisdom and knowledge and sets you free, Truth will only cause confusion if your mind is closed to the truth my friend.



but Jesus Christ the Living God


it doesn't help us if the Bible is true or not

it's all about relationship with God

Yes i am pleased to hear you say this Red. congratulations, In this expression i would say you have moved on.

Have a blessed day.

Hi Red and all, I enjoy my exchanges with Red, He is a tad stubborn and sometimes ignores direct questions but all in all i like him and admire his faith.

As far as Red being accused of not opening up or accepting different opinions concerning the bible, That the bible is not 100% Gospel truth, As you see in the posts above, I would say that Red has moved on from the OP of this thread.

When i asked Red why he joined Avalon, Was it to preach the Gospel, Try to covert Avalonians, his answer was to reach out till the end.

I believe Red has concern and much love for humanity, and for me that is all that matters. He like all Avalonians does not hold the whole truth and hopefully one day soon we can all share the truth when it decides to reveal itself.

Personally instead of Red quoting others testimonies i would like him to share his personal experiences and testimony.

Each to their own

Peace

[observer]

[....snip]
"If you find Red's posts so offensive, why come here and aggravate yourself?"

Thank you GCS1103 for giving me this opportunity to explain how the forum should work.

This is a forum of NEW ideas. Old, failed ideas need to be sent to the recycle bin. Evangelizing old, failed ideas on a forum designed to explore new concepts is akin to rude behavior. His post count is now well over 2,000.

There is absolutely no problem with red evangelizing within the confine of this thread - it is his thread.

Red floods other threads with his failed version of religious belief. This behavior borders on derailing each thread Red evangelizes within. His behavior becomes rude and unacceptable when he insists on derailing the topic in the other threads.

I bring my debate with his theology into this thread, because it is the appropriate way to handle an 'off topic' debate in another thread.

Some of us commenting in this thread have serious issues with Trinity Christianity. Those issues are compounded by the fact that Red evangelizes his version of Fundamentalist Christianity throughout the Forum.

So, I would be more than willing to stop coming into this thread - the appropriate thread for theological debate with Red - if he would be willing to stop his evangelizing throughout the rest of the forum.

It's that simple....

[Beren]

Finally we moved out from insults or if this is a harsh term- cancelling out other perspectives- to mutual understanding.

One thing that always counts is the intention.
Ever present- WHY.

There are few streams regarding Bible.
Gnosticism, Catholicism(and all their spawns) and other forms of bible believers.

But let us turn to Bible and what Bible actually says here :

Luke 9:
46 A discussion started among them about who would be the greatest.47 Jesus knew what they were thinking. So he took a little child and had him stand beside him. 48 Then he said to them, “Whoever welcomes this little child in my name welcomes me. Whoever welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me. The one who is least among all of you is the one who is greatest.”




My comment :



There we see how they succumb to their ego and speak or think who is the greatest now that they have this new awesome power from God.
But right away God corrects them with a child example.






49 John replied, “Master, we saw someone forcing demons out of a person by using the power and authority of your name. We tried to stop him because he was not one of us.”
50 Jesus said to him, “Don’t stop him! Whoever isn’t against you is for you.”




My comment:


There we see a continuation of ego only in different form, they brushed out Jesus`s comment about child and continued this charade of ego of who is greatest by now turning their attention that NO ONE can use Christ`s power and the authority unless going with them.
Right away Christ (thus God though Christ) corrects them by saying don`t stop them.
Anyone can use this power if they are one in spirit with Creator and Christ.
Being one in spirit means you don`t work against God on every level consciously.


Now since God who`s spirit it is - is NOT stopping anyone of freely using the spirit (power) - WHO ARE apostles or anyone in whole Universe to delegate of who is about to use the power of God or not?


Cannot God be the one who choose whom is free to use the power?




Conclusion of this is that humans or ET`s or whoever are always trying to set the limits upon God and its acting.
This is of course impossible thus bringing only divisions among all.


So my proposition here is to rise above who is right and wrong because God is watching us and chuckles all the way about his children.
:)


Rise above and use freely the power of God to bring new light and unity and life.
Very Christ and God allowed us and inclined us to do so.


Recently in video Way of the wizard by Deepak Chopra I saw this gem where he says that for every part of evolution of consciousness there is a tool necessary for that part to envelop.
Bible was and is a tool just like there are many others where God placed its wisdom and mirror of sorts for our souls to see what we are doing and what are we choosing and its fruits.


There is no blood thirsty God of OT.


All the blood shed was done by humans who imagined that God told them so.
So they recorded their histories and blood shed.


If you read thoroughly whole Bible you would see this uninterrupted line of story of how people very rarely actually listened God and when something happened to them they interpreted this as God`s vengeance or punishment.
In fact all that happened was the effect of their choices.


But yes, whole time all of them claimed God told us so and so.
It`s easy to shift blame on God then, it`s invisible and out of your reach hence an easy target for blame game.


How about facing your own bloody hands after killing a village of people and pregnant women?


But even those pregnant women`s souls and children`s went straight up to God in heaven so no real harm was done down here on Earth playgrounds.
But we don`t understand this. That`s why Christ died and came back to explain this whole process and redeem us from US.
To save us from deep pits and hell of lower form of conscience and take us in heaven where is high conscience where you fix all problems with your little finger.


Imagine Christ and say some kid. A zealot comes and slit kid`s throat, kill its mom and rape his father.
Then Christ watches all this and smiles.


Everybody is in terror and scream ; "Why you didn`t stop them!!!"
Christ smiles again and with little finger brings back all that killed to life in perfect bodies.
Small example but truthful of the power of God.


None of the souls that experienced horrified murders aren`t lost.
We need to understand this or we will be trapped in this mayhem of who is right or wrong.


Nothing is ever lost and always lives in God ,Christ and all on God`s house.
Surprise ,Surprise !!!!


We`re in the house too !


:)

[gripreaper]

From Keshe who has discovered free energy.

""Consciousness is the interactive outcome of decisions made by fields and not by matters. In time man will come to understand that Consciousness has no field strength (principal, transition and matter fields) criterion and is equal and the same for all entities in the universe. It is the central control room of physicality, or what we call tangible existence, as well as of the non-tangible.

If physicality is the Sun itself, the Soul is the field which the Sun emits unconditionally, and when these fields interact with each other and with the fields of other entities that possess both magnetic and gravitational fields, then from the interaction of these complex fields comes the creation of light, or the awareness of the existence of the other. In this interaction the observation of the light becomes the consciousness of existence of the physicality of the original entities and how the interaction will be and what the outcome can be.

Then once one sees the light from the interaction of the fields, at this point one becomes AWARE of the entity without the presence of its physicality."""

http://www.keshefoundation.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2532

It's time we wake up.

[heyokah]

From Keshe who has discovered free energy.

""Consciousness is the interactive outcome of decisions made by fields and not by matters. In time man will come to understand that Consciousness has no field strength (principal, transition and matter fields) criterion and is equal and the same for all entities in the universe. It is the central control room of physicality, or what we call tangible existence, as well as of the non-tangible.

If physicality is the Sun itself, the Soul is the field which the Sun emits unconditionally, and when these fields interact with each other and with the fields of other entities that possess both magnetic and gravitational fields, then from the interaction of these complex fields comes the creation of light, or the awareness of the existence of the other. In this interaction the observation of the light becomes the consciousness of existence of the physicality of the original entities and how the interaction will be and what the outcome can be.

Then once one sees the light from the interaction of the fields, at this point one becomes AWARE of the entity without the presence of its physicality."""

http://www.keshefoundation.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2532


It's time we wake up.

Thanks, this was an interesting read, food for thought and a present.

Please allow me .... :-)


""At this moment of time, man due to his physical knowledge sees everything through the eye of physicality, which is the mirage that has blinded him from the truth of creation and the real essence of creation.
“O man of existence, close your eyes to your physicality, to see the reality of existence in all realms of the universe.”

In truth man is matter, which with consciousness becomes a ‘being’, and no more."""


And then

""Thus when we are aware of our thoughts without regarding what our physical part decides to do with itself, then we consciously become aware that consciousness is in principle the controller of the physical body.

On the other hand, its own consciousness can interact with the universal entities without the physicality of the entity and without the entities having any say in how the interaction will be, and this is the correct line of interaction of the Soul with other creatures of the universe, as with this there is no need to feed the physicality that can endanger the process of the true and correct path with others in the universe.

In time man will come to understand that consciousness is the correct means of communication with all decision-making entities in the universe, and from there on he will learn how to correct the physical operation and conduct of his body, as the consciousness touches the operation of man’s physical being more than any other fields. But man has not come to realize how much of his own fate is decided by his own consciousness fields, which are equal in strength to the strength of his own physical matters fields.

Then if man will understand this, he will understand the laws of fallibility and will never have to do, and will never do, wrong to himself and not even to others."""


This is reaping the grip, gripreaper.

Thanks mister Keshe.

[crested-duck]

My "personal/individual path" has led me to the following information/tools for understanding what most people claim to want to know and understand ". -The Journey of UCA -"Unique Collective Awareness"
The 23 Chapters of the Journey of UCA describes in outer journey, beginning with "nothing exists" and explains how the universe came into being from the smallest fundamental particles of matter through to atoms and up to the largest structures in the universe, while at the same time demonstrating not only the existence of the key forces within the universe, but "why" these forces such as mass, time, energy exist.
http://www.ucadia.com/uca/u01/010100.htm--
The Journey of Self
The 23 Chapters of the Journey of Self describes the inner journey, beginning with " I exist", and travelling deeper into the self to understand how our minds came to be, how we are influenced by our parents, our relatives, our community, our school and our societies to think and act and what is the ultimate meaning of self and the universe as a whole. -http://www.ucadia.com/me/m01/m010100.htm
I shall now return to being just a"curious observer" once again, and not add anything more to this thread.---Rob

[Beren]

Good , good replies so far!

See this is the thing where we ought to go.
Rising above murky waters of the lower conscience.

Can we grasp now why Jesus stated that famous sentence of how long he will have to suffer people down there then?
Yes surely for he felt that energy mud ,that mire of sticky fingers of lower energy filled with negativity and primitiveness.

He literally felt dirty and in need of energy shower.

All these things spoken in last few posts are road signs where to go in order to understand where we are as humans and where we can head to.


But again a question remains- what to do with archetype of Satan-Lucifer-Dar enemy-Evil- Archon etc. ?
Since we know that this archetype is a cause of all these low fields of energy , of all mayhem.
In even broader truth some of us caused all this in time before time. When young and eager to experience our own thoughts.

We made possible archetype of Satan or Dark enemy .
Since we are Creator`s own , we fueled the monster to unimaginable proportions all over universe.

Question is ,
to be or not to be?

Be- taking the power back to Love-to our real selves.
Not to be- cowering down and succumbing to fear.

I voted long time ago to BE.
I am making it now and hope my brothers and sisters are with me all along.
:)

[GCS1103]

Beautifully said, Beren.

I'm once again enjoying this thread and like reading what our fellow avalonians have to say.

[observer]

Who speaks for the souls of the hundreds of millions who unmercifully perished at places like Maarat el-Numaan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maarat_al-Numaan), and The Languedoc (http://www.pbs.org/inquisition/cathars.html)- the list is endless?

They deserve more than a few token words of unrequited Love in a thread where the mechanism by which they were martyred is venerated.

Someone must speak in their name....

I walk away doing the only dance that is appropriate:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTY2pmKguDg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTY2pmKguDg

Observer hangs his head in disbelief and walks-out into the desolate landscape....

[RedeZra]

Imagine Christ and say some kid. A zealot comes and slit kid`s throat, kill its mom and rape his father.
Then Christ watches all this and smiles.



lol why did he have to rape his father


the Gospel view is that this zealot will end up in hell and eternal damnation

if he doesn't repent and seek forgiveness from Jesus


Christ do not condone sin but He can forgive

but that depends on the heart of the sinner

[gripreaper]

Imagine Christ and say some kid. A zealot comes and slit kid`s throat, kill its mom and rape his father.
Then Christ watches all this and smiles.

All things in the cosmos are perfect and in balance. His karma will see to it that this balance is maintained in his next lifetime.

God is not mocked. We reap what we sow.

[Seikou-Kishi]

Who speaks for the souls of the hundreds of millions who unmercifully perished at places like Maarat el-Numaan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maarat_al-Numaan), and The Languedoc (http://www.pbs.org/inquisition/cathars.html)- the list is endless?

They deserve more than a few token words of unrequited Love in a thread where the mechanism by which they were martyred is venerated.

Someone must speak in their name....

Unless you can prove Red had anything to do with those losses of life, it's not really his place to excuse himself, or to have to XD.

Many people rail against the Catholic idea of original sin because it seems so unjust that people can be held accountable for acts that were not their own. Let's not commit the same injustice to Red.

[RedeZra]

Many people rail against the Catholic idea of original sin because it seems so unjust that people can be held accountable for acts that were not their own. Let's not commit the same injustice to Red.


if not for original sin

Adam and Eve would probably still live in Eden


but because our first parents chose to obey satan and disobey God

we the children of Adam and Eve have been born and buried into a fallen world for 6000 years


so we here on earth are not born into the Grace of God

but because of Jesus we can be born again

into close relationship with God

and inherit eternal life in Eden

[gripreaper]

Many people rail against the Catholic idea of original sin because it seems so unjust that people can be held accountable for acts that were not their own. Let's not commit the same injustice to Red.

We come into each incarnation complete and whole, with our souls desire for certain lessons, and with certain talents. We are from an infinite soul stream which is eternal, as there is no beginning or end. Life has existed on this planet for billions of years, and the hybridization of the slave species in the garden of Eden 6000 years ago by those who came from the stars and called themselves gods, is not the original species on this planet, or the original divine essence. There is no fall, there is no original sin, other than the illusion that we are damaged goods, as we hold all the life force in us. We would not even be able to take a breath without this divine spark, so it has never been lacking, and we here on earth are born into the full and complete Grace of the creator God. Yeshua came to teach us that we are one with the divine, always have been, and always will be. Heaven and hell are just constructs of the elite who propagated the slave species and wish to control us. This is old paganistic fundamentalist dogma and has no basis in truth. You must be born again into many incarnations in order to fulfill ascension and fulfill unity, as reincarnation is spoken of in the bible when Elijah returned as John the Baptist, even though Elijah showed us how we can ascend without dying. We can all ascend without dying, as Yeshua taught us, death is an illusion.

[RedeZra]

Life has existed on this planet for billions of years, and the hybridization of the slave species in the garden of Eden 6000 years ago by those who came from the stars and called themselves gods, is not the original species on this planet, or the original divine essence.


the fallen angels came after Adam and Eve were banished from Eden and started to corrupt the creation of God





There is no fall, there is no original sin, other than the illusion that we are damaged goods, as we hold all the life force in us.


if no fall then no death

so why do we die


you've not been here before grip

and you won't come back either reaper





Yeshua came to teach us that we are one with the divine, always have been, and always will be. Heaven and hell are just constructs of the elite who propagated the slave species and wish to control us.


Jesus came to tell that we will have eternal life

if we repent of our sins and accept Him as our guide and guardian

[Kindred]

Children always want attention. The more you pay attention to a Child behaving badly, the more this Child will behave badly, because it sees that it's getting the Attention it desires. Even if this 'attention' is getting threatened or spanked, the child will continue with this approach, as, ultimately, it's getting what it desires.

If the Adult Ignores the child's Bad behavior, (as long as it's not hurting others), then, slowly, that Child will begin to change it's actions. As long as the Adults are consistent in not reacting to the child's bad behavior, and Only reward Good behavior, then the Child will begin to see that the attention it wants will only be gotten when it behaves well.

I hope the Adults see the merits of this action plan.

In Unity, Peace and Love

[crested-duck]

I just had to jump in here and repost this from Romanwyk many month ago. It hit home with me and I think it will help all involved at this time. Sincerely,Rob***The one truth, a belief



The one truth is a very good question with a broad range of understandings and conclusions.

So here goes, there is no such thing as truth, it cannot be, ones belief is not a truth, ones faith is not a truth, even thoughts are not truth, what one sees is not a truth, what one feels is not a truth.

The only thing that could be called the truth is the unchanging, something that never changes ever, that would be a truth of a true state, now think about the unchanging, what is there that never changes, in physical matter everything keep changing its state, therefore it cannot be a truth.

The only truth is ZERO state, a nothing, all else is added, a belief becomes a truth for somebody, its a belief, its not a truth. You can change your beliefs on a day to day basis and prove to yourself that what was true yesterday is not the truth today. Mind is not a truth, it a creator, therefore there cannot be a right or a wrong, good or bad, as its just a belief, and belief is not a truth. God is not a truth, one may be psychologically more stable in an emergency for instance by believing in a support by a God, but it not a truth, its a belief, and a belief in a God makes you manipulative, and its not a truth.

What you believed as a child has changed to what you know now and in what you believe now, its not a truth, it a belief.

Mind creates what you believe, what you have created with mind is not a truth, its a belief.

The hidden gift of humanity is belief, for whatever you believe in, you will create, but its not a truth, it a belief, a forever changing function of creation by mind, by your beliefs, but its not the truth it a belief.

All the opinions and all the knowledge are nothing more than here-say that is believed in, and mind creates it into reality, but its not a truth, its an accepted belief.

The system is designed to unify all of humanity’s beliefs for the system manipulation.

The system proposes that they are the holders of truth, they are in fact holders of your belief, which is not a truth, but we believe them, therefore we are bound to them by a belief, which is not the truth.

Are we beginning to see, are we beginning to awake, are we beginning to see the power each of us have to ourselves as individuals and as a consensus.

Can we see the manipulation of knowledge and religions, and philosophy, always directing humanity deeper into a belief trap, which is not a truth, its a belief.


Hi to you all, and warmest regards
roman

[modwiz]

Red quotes the Bible. Crested Duck quotes Roman. Some original thoughts would be refreshing, but Red is staying on topic.

I have respectfully observed, except for a few words. It will remain that way.

[GCS1103]

Crested-Duck- that was an interesting quote from Roman. I agree that none of us know, for certain, where we go after these bodies die. None of us can say if these beliefs and certainties we carry around will even be close to "the truth". Although we may follow a certain school of thought, based on our readings and research, who's to say that we are on the right path? After all, writers, scholars, religious leaders, etc. are just like us- human beings with no concrete answers. If they had the real answer, they would all be in agreement. So, we have to rely upon what we have personally experienced, and not what some writer has told us is the answer, as to who we are and where we are going.

I would like to tell you why I, personally, believe what I do. Let me first say that I will never claim that my belief should be anyone else's. It's valid for me only; but no video, book or guru will change what is "the truth" for me and what I have experienced.

First, let me say that I am very grounded here in the 3rd dimension. I'm not a psychic, I don't commune with aliens or spirits and I have never been what you would call a religious person. I'm not a member of a Church and don't belong to any religious organization. I am saying this so you understand that I am not a fundamentalist nor am I a Bible scholar, and never pretend to be. I work in a secular profession (I'm an attorney) where religion plays no part in my everyday life. I work in the world of real estate and interact with the banking industry daily.

When my mother was dying of cancer, I found it impossible to cope with her illness. She lived in my house so we could take care of her with nursing assistance. I watched her rapidly deteriorate and I could not function normally. One night I was thinking about her and I experienced, what I would call a fullness, in my body and mind. It was a profound feeling of peace and I heard a voice, not spoken, but in my head say "she will not die". I find it hard to describe what I felt, but from that day on I was able to deal with her eventual death and knew that her spirit was alive and well, without her body. I knew it was a divine intervention and since that day, I will always believe this is "the truth" for me. I will always believe there is a supreme diety that loves us all. No one can ever convince me that it was a grey, a tall white, an Annunaki that was talking to me. For me, it was God, giving me peace.

As to heaven and hell, good and evil....I believe in both. I had one experience with a psychic who was doing readings in my house for a group of friends, years ago. Shortly after our little psychic party, I would be woken up at night feeling someone touching my cheek, the television would turn on by itself and there was a pervasive, what I would call evil, in the house. People who came into the house would feel it. I couldn't stand to be in my own home. I went so far as having this (for lack of a better word) spirit, exorcised from my house. It worked and I never again had a reading.

To conclude my novel here ;), I attended the Awake and Aware Conference last year in California. I took a lot of pictures of the speakers, had the opportunity to speak to many of them, spent some time with Bob Dean and Rich Dolan, etc. There was a large crowd of attendees there that I would call "New Age". Without going into too much detail and pointing a figure at anyone speaking there, I can tell you that there was a negative feeling surrounding the conference. I have been to many MUFON conferences but this one was different. There was something not right about the atmosphere and I was not the only one who felt that. I experienced a horrible sight one evening when I looked up and saw what seemed to be a scene from a horror movie. There were screaming faces, twisted faces- something you would see in one of those paintings that depict human suffering. By the way, I don't drink at all, so I was not intoxicated. It looked like a living hell up on the ceiling and I was wide awake. That is what I envision hell to look like and I envision a heaven too. I try very hard to live my life in a way that won't land me in a place like I saw on the ceiling.

I'd be interested to hear anyone else's story about what put you on the path that you follow, whatever it may be.

[gripreaper]

It's all about context. If you are looking at the universe from your third dimensional body with only your five senses, you are going to see and experience the polarized states in all of their ugliness and beauty. All of the symbolism's and archetypes used to explain these experiences reference matter in it's myriad forms. All of the dogmas and religions designed to explain these phenomenon are from one perspective or another.

From the context of the soul, there is no duality, or polarized states. The soul is eternal and has a perspective of the entire cosmos without the limitations of linear time, and is not limited to just the five senses, or one lifetime. It is from this perspective which gives one the full context and view from which I look at things.

I'm no longer interested in seeing things from the perspective of one lifetime, within the confines of linear time, subjected to structured dogmas which are designed to control me and keep me in fear. I can look at the extreme polarized states we call evil and recognize them for what they are, and know that this state is not the state of this energy when in full unity, from the perspective of the soul.

This "state" opens up the possibilities to see clairevoyantly, be clairesentient, and hear claireaudiently, as well as remote view, bi-locate, levitate, and be in the stillpoint of the heart where the soul resides. This is what Yeshua was trying to teach us, that we are already "in this state" if we would recognize who we are and open up to it. We don't have to go anywhere (heaven or hell) or be under authority, (the Romans or the gods) to ascend from polarity to unity. Greater things will we do than Yeshua had done. He showed us that there is no death, and walked among us with his human BA body and his etheric KA body fully balanced and connected and charged with life force, and we still did not see him.

And the path each one takes is of their own free will choice, as well as how many lifetimes one takes. I am fully in agreement that one can take whatever road they want, take as long as they want, and tarry at any point in their journey for as long as they want, and fully explore each aspect of that journey as deeply as they choose.

All will ascend and be in unity once again with source.

[RedeZra]

Red quotes the Bible. Crested Duck quotes Roman. Some original thoughts would be refreshing, but Red is staying on topic.

I have respectfully observed, except for a few words. It will remain that way.


feel free to butt in Wiz ; )

you have a way with words and we miss some magic


i don't know much but i do believe the Bible

and i want to live my life like Jesus

except the crucifiction part if possible

[Shadowman]

"except the crucifiction part if possible"

lol, the crucifixion symbolizes the death of the separate self/ego Red.
Without the "crucifixion" there is no "born again" resurrection into the eternal life.
In order for God to "appear" , "you" have to disappear.
As long as you take yourself to be a wave/cloud, you cannot realize the ocean/sky.

inri = + + + = y + inri + e = ytinrite = eternity = y enter it? (Ok lol, this last one is reaching, but the answer is Love)
...... Golgotha.........+

horizontal beam = linear time, mortality, creation manifest, Son of Man, matter
vertical beam = eternal now, immortality, totality unmanifest, Son of God, Awareness
meeting point of vertical and horizontal on cross = Jesus's heart, hu-man, both Son of God and Son of Man, Union with the Divine

Perfect realization requires perfect sacrifice.
Perfect sacrifice means to love all unconditionally ie do not judge.

All is well (All is God's will)

All enter heaven eventually ;) , the God of LOVE is beyond human comprehension, eternal hell is a misunderstanding.

"If thine eye is single/simple/sound, thy whole body will be full of light"
"The Kingdom of Heaven is within you/ within your midst"
"I and my father are one"

If you really want to live your life like Jesus, realize what Jesus realized, and love all equally.
Leave judgement, and the fire and brimstone talk of eternal punishment to others.
Enter the Kingdom of Heaven first, remove the plank from your own eye, then teach.
The world is full of blind teachers like Nicodemus.
Go into your room and worship silently in Spirit, still the mind, be still and know God.

It may also help to gain a broader perspective of other faiths.
Have you studied any scripture beyond the Bible? ie The Bhagavad Gita, or the Diamond Sutra,
or the Dhammapada, or the Upanishads?
See my thread for some helpful links if you are so inclined.

With Love/Namaste
tim

[gripreaper]

This video is the antithesis of fundamentalist dogma, and it requires one to suspend all belief and listen with an open heart. I post this here for observer and heyokah, greybeard and others who I know will watch it. Stand back from the canvas and look at the true history, the true story.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1SC0ceLHRU&feature=player_embedded

[edit]

Just the first 53 minute at least. Dan Winter does an excellent job of explaining the big picture.

[RedeZra]

lol, the crucifixion symbolizes the death of the separate self/ego Red.
Without the "crucifixion" there is no "born again" resurrection into the eternal life.
In order for God to "appear" , "you" have to disappear.


or i can accept that Jesus took my place on the Cross

and ask Him for the Holy spirit to guide and guard me





All enter heaven eventually ;) , the God of LOVE is beyond human comprehension, eternal hell is a misunderstanding.


i wish it was so

but this is not Biblical

and many have been taken to hell by Jesus

so to give a report of its reality back to us





It may also help to gain a broader perspective of other faiths.
Have you studied any scripture beyond the Bible? ie The Bhagavad Gita, or the Diamond Sutra,
or the Dhammapada, or the Upanishads?



i am well acquainted with eastern ideas culture and even gurus

and have read the Vedic epic Mahabharata where we find the Bhagavad Gita or wisdom of Krishna

i know the background and philosophy of Buddha like my own back pocket

and i am attracted to Zen and the state of no mind




---


Mary K Baxter

was also taken to hell


mBm9JRggXOY

[heyokah]

i am well acquainted with eastern ideas culture and even gurus

and have read the Vedic epic Mahabharata where we find the Bhagavad Gita or wisdom of Krishna

i know the background and philosophy of Buddha like my own back pocket

and i am attracted to Zen and the state of no mind









And you can still listen to this lady Mary K Baxter with dry eyes...... ?

[Shadowman]

Intellectual understanding is a two edged sword, Red. It can be as much an obstacle as it is an aid to entering no mind / Kingdom of Heaven / Nirvana. Has your knowledge of the Bible, or of eastern philosophies, led you to any form of solitary meditation / spiritual practice?

To seek Mind (Awareness) with the discriminating mind is the greatest of mistakes... - Sengstan (Sosan)

“Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted/turn (στραφῆτε), and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven...”

Without the benefit of the awakened perspective, this is usually misinterpreted, in much the same way that the meaning of the greek word metanoia (μετάνοια) is distorted;

In theology, metanoia is used to refer to the change of mind which is brought about in repentance. Repentance is necessary and valuable because it brings about change of mind or metanoia. This change of mind will result in the altered persona deprecating sin, though replicating good will, benevolence, and integration of self in relation to Universal harmony or deity. The two terms (repentance and metanoia) are often used interchangeably.

However, the prefix "meta-" carries with it other variants that are consistent with the Eastern Greek philosophical mindset, and perhaps is at odds with Western views. "Meta-" is additionally used to imply "beyond" and "outside of."

from here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metanoia_%28theology%29


Sanskrit IAST: gate gate pāragate pārasaṃgate bodhi svāhā
Gone, gone, gone beyond, gone altogether beyond, O what an awakening, all-hail !

So it’s not about changing one’s thinking from “bad” to “good”, which can then be subject to relative interpretation and further change, but about realizing your true identity, which is altogether beyond (meta) mind (noia), and eternal. This is said from direct realization, not intellectual understanding.

You will find, after sufficiently researching the matter, to the point of being inspired to practise a technique earnestly, such as zazen, that entering no mind, or “being still”, is far easier said than done. The ego/mind (the true adversary) only becomes quiescent with persistent practice and dedication.

Upon attaining no mind, however, "you" will truly realize, directly, without the filter of intellectual conceptualization the inner meaning of the following;

“if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.”

“behold, the kingdom of God is within you / in your midst” (right now!)

“I and my/the Father are one.”

I wish you all the best on your journey my friend,

With Love / Namaste
tim

[crested-duck]

Post #1207 contains valuable links/ tools to understand who/what exactly we are and how the universe and energy/life operates, and why it is that way. Perhaps if modwiz and others read the material and understood it then it would be fairly easy to understand/figure-out why I posted that post by romanwyk. It appears to me that gripreaper has indeed read the material and/or other closely related material. As far as my personal path to how I got to the mindset I have today, I will gladly respond in a PM to gcs1103 when I have more time later today.

[RedeZra]

i believe the Bible is the game plan of God


God lost a lot of angels to the proud prince and the dark side

and so God seeks to replace them


and here we are


with an invitation from God

to come and claim Heaven


don't trade it for the world ; )

[danceblackcatdance]

I still find it amazing in so called modern and more 'enlightened' times that people still rigidly stick to their belief systems without bothering to research beyond..... you're not going to die if your beliefs are proved wrong :) but it's possible that the whole world will benefit from (even more) enlightenment... :cool:

I've started reading Andrew Power's book: Ireland The Land Of The Pharaohs... (thx to a member of PA :)) its a fascinating read... Michael Tsarion is big on this topic too... I see grip reaper also posted some videos on this (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?35019-the-Bible&p=463858&viewfull=1#post463858) and here's another one:

x-1nSnlBdR0

"Our present version of the Bible then is an authorized adaptation from the original Irish scriptures with alterations and additions made from time to time by Roman and British churchmen in secrecy as they deemed it necessary and advisable to do so."

"The land we now call Egypt was colonized...and was originally peopled by fair Celts from the shores of Britain. This was the Exodus of the Aryans, some of whom returned later to their primeval homes - Comyns Beaumont (Riddle of Pre-Historic Britain)"

http://www.irishoriginsofcivilization.com/irishoriginsexcerpts/ch10.html

http://www.irishoriginsofcivilization.com/irishoriginsexcerpts/ch41.html

http://www.irishoriginsofcivilization.com/appendices/conormacdari.html

How The Bible Is An Irish Book Altered And Adapted By British-Roman Transcribers
- By Conor MacDari

Although our Christian peoples, in the more advanced countries of today, have denounced Jewish pogroms and deliberately planned murders of Jewish people in some of the countries of eastern Europe during the World War, what can they think of the wholesale deportations and murders and suffering inflicted upon the people of what is now called Syria when they know that the Roman Church put her plan in operation to charge them with having crucified the ideal Savior Jesu (The Sun God) and scattered them broadcast over the world. By dispersing those people, she cleared the way for the renaming of places in Judea to make it appear that such a man as Jesus had lived there; that those various places said to have been the scenes of his life and travels were actually real places and in existence on the map with those names. It is something awful to contemplate, but the Roman Church did this thing; and the people whom she punished thus and who bear the undeserved stigma to this day to crucifying the Savior are as innocent of such a deed as the child unborn.

The Roman fathers employed most ingenious methods to establish the “authenticity” of Jesus. To that end they had stories written up purporting to be by certain men, some of whom denied his God-like powers, while there were others witness who declared that he worked wonders. Her scribes also wrote up accounts of those who were supposed to be in his companions, but written in such a way that their stories would not agree in every minute detail but near enough so that it would not appear that one account was a copy of the other. It must be as a witness giving a different and distinctly individual narration of the facts as seen by him self.?

These trained fabricators considered that no two or more persons would write the facts regarding an event in real life in just the same identical words, so it was thought best to have a little variation inserted in the accounts as given by “Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.” So that is how we find it arranged in those four books by the Roman Doctors. If Luke tells of an event in one way, John tells it a little differently, and so with Matthew and Mark. Luke records that the miraculous draught of fishes was made at the beginning of the ministry of Jesus (V : 6). John says that it did not happen until after he had risen from the dead (John XXI: II). John says that, although the number of fish was great, the net was not broken; and Luke says that their net did break (V : 6).

Matthew says that Jesus told the twelve apostles to go and preach, and commanded them to “provide neither gold nor silver, nor brass in your purses, nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves” (Matt. X:9, 10). Mark is made to mention that same incident just a little bit different and with a slight contradiction of his “infallible” brother scribe. He says that Jesus commanded them to take nothing for their journey save a staff only (Mark V: 1-8).

Like inconsistencies which are so many in these four gospels stamp them as counterfeit books. In fact, the very names of the authors to whom these books are ascribed are forgeries and misleading. They were intended so to be; for it was claimed that they were “Hebrew,” while the plain truths is that they were taken entire from the ideals of the Irish Gospels with the nomenclature slightly changed in order to escape detection.

It is my purpose to give an extensive elucidation or explanation of the bible in this chapter or work, but as the Irish Bible and Irish Great Pyramid of Iesa are closely related in spiritual and symbolic significance as agencies and landmarks for the guidance of “wayfaring” mankind in its progress upward toward the spiritual enlightenment and regeneration, for this reason I feel I must touch upon this reason I feel I must touch upon this phase in my theme specifically, if only briefly. As I have shown by citations that forgeries were committed, I shall prove by explanations that our Bible is an Irish book, of pre-Roman times, and as out-and-out theft without acknowledgment from the Irish Church of Iesa. Any competent person who knows the Irish language cannot fail to recognize it.

Our present version of the Bible then is an authorized adaptation from the original Irish scriptures with alterations and additions made from time to time by Roman and British churchmen in secrecy as they deemed it necessary and advisable to do so.

The following agreement in the writings under the names of “Matthew,” “Mark” and “Luke,” regarding the impression made upon the people by the teachings of Jesus, is an example which shows plainly the work of the forging priests. It would be impossible for such agreement to have occurred in the original writings of any three men writing individually and independently on any subject whatsoever, but in fabrications from the older works and collaborating, the priest-scribes simply blundered and made each of the three “witnesses” write down and repeat the same identical expression in “copy” as to how Jesus impressed the people. Here is the forged testimony:

Mathew says: “They were astonished at his doctrine” (XXII:33).

Mark says: “They were astonished at his doctrine” (I:22).

Luke says: “They were astonished at his doctrine” (LV:32).

Many authors and critics have commented upon and pointed out the inaccuracies and inconsistencies of the scriptures and many of them have stated their firm belief that they were copied from older books. But none of them could obtain a clue beyond a surmise which was far from the truth and none of them was able to produce the real facts which were necessary to convince. But the work that they did has helped and made it possible to accomplish the desired end. They found so many flaws in it, which the “jugglers” did not cover up, that it kept the question open until the solution was found. The true source has escaped discovery until now; at least it has never before been disclosed to the knowledge of mankind as a whole.

The Irish Scriptures were altered and adapted to the scheme of the church in order to make the fable of Iesa and historical and geographical fact. Names from the Scriptures were given to places in Syria during its occupation by the Crusaders to bear this out. It also suited the purpose of British statecraft to obscure and suppress all evidence of the greatness and culture of the Irish Nation, than whom no people in the world’s history have reached greater heights both spiritually and intellectually nor have suffered greater injustice at the hands of priestly imposters or political oppressors.

The men who were engaged in executing this literary fraud committed as well the audacious crime of completely effacing all evidence of credit due the Irish Nation for the most brilliant and glorious service to civilization and human enlightenment. It almost passes belief that a fraud so stupendous could escape so long with discovery. But when we consider the thoroughness and extent to which the plot was carried out, and the magnitude of the forces which were employed in the work, it is not so much to be wondered at, forces such as the Roman Empire, with its world power, then the Roman Catholic Church and the British Kingdom, with propaganda systematically spread abroad in order to create a false impression of everything pertaining to the past history of Ireland and her people. These are the forces which have perpetrated and profited by this great fraud. The deception is still continued and the secret jealously guarded by both the Roman Church and British from the world at large, but more particularly from the Irish people who have suffered so much from those two adverse forces. The men who executed this plot were acting jointly in the interest of both Rome and Britain. Even to this day, the British Government does not encourage, even if it will allow, excavations or investigations to be made about the hill of Tara in Ireland (Rev. Joseph Wild in When the World Comes to an End).

I will give two citations here, with more to follow, to show that the names of many of the characters in the Bible are plainly Irish, and it is because of this fact that the Irish Roman Catholic priests would not allow the Irish Catholics to read the Bible. They were told not to read it, that “it was not a sufficient rule of faith.” The real reason was that some of the Irish people might recognize the Irish names in a “Jewish” Bible and ask questions that it would embarrass them to answer satisfactorily. Nevertheless, it is a very astonishing thing that what now appears so clearly fraudulent could have escaped detection for so long a time. There are three main reasons for this: first, that the people are slow to attribute fraud and dishonesty to the clergy; second, that the Irish Catholics who could speak the Irish language believed, as they were told by the priests, that the Bible was brought to them from outside instead of being of Irish origin, and, being uninstructed in the principles of man’s nature, were not given to investigation or research for spiritual truth; and third, that the field of religious literature has been dominated by the works of professional preachers and other religionists who have kept up the delusion knowingly or who took it for granted that the published accounts of the origin of the Scriptures were, in the main, true and were originally written in Greek with one single copy in Hebrew, as has always been asserted. It will, therefore, be a surprise of this deception to be told that it was through the medium of the Irish language that the true key would be found for the solution of this mystery of the origin of the Bible. The proof of this fact is here given for all mankind to see and know.
The first of the two citations to be given in this chapter is from the Book of John (Ch. 3, 23d verse). “And John was baptizing in Aenon near to Salem, because there was much water there; and they came and were baptized.”

In the latest revision of the Bible, the “Doctors” have altered the word Aenon and have made it Enon. In the older version it is Aenon. This is a compound of two Irish words, Aen, meaning a circle of the Sun, a year, and On, also a name of the Sun. The complete word itself means the Sun. The word On also signifies cause, reason, swiftness, fierceness, eagerness, excellent, noble, good, also wolfdog. These are qualities and attributes associated with and applied to the Solar Sun and the Sun God by the Aryan or Irish Priests of Iesa. Their theology was based on the idea that the Supreme Deity never had nor has a name. He is known only by attributes, as the “Good” or God, Holy, Most High, etc. And, as the Solar Sun is the center of light and His great representative or “Son” on our system, the Sun God is named after the qualities and attributes of some idea, such as “the Horseman” or “Charioteer,” “The Strong One,” or “Samson,” or “the Fierce One,” Horus, “the Heavenly Wolf Who is Eager,” swift and fierce.

The Irish, during their sojourn in Egypt, gave the name of On to one of their cities on the Nile. The City of On, the City of the Sun, was afterwards called Heliopolis by the Greeks and Romans. Salem is a “Hebrew” word, but the basis of it is in the Irish word Solas, light. As “Hebew” is a jargon of the Irish, it follows more or less closely the root it is taken from as will be seen. So Salem means the City of God or Light.

The meaning of this myth is that John (Aen – The Sun) was baptizing in Aenon, the City of the Sun, near Salem, the City of God, in the realm of Light, the celestial kingdom. Where else could such a being as the pure and perfected man be said to dwell? In this myth, John, (Aen, Eion, or Ain, three forms of the word and all pronounced Ain) represents the redeemed and glorified man, man at the highest stage of spiritual attainment, next to the Messianic state, so that in his next succeeding life or incarnation here again on earth he will be the Messiah. In the Irish mythic narrative of the bible we see that, after John, the prophet and holy man, comes the perfected Man-God, the Messiah, Iesa (Jesus).

This is an example of the esoteric truth and wisdom which lies hidden beneath the veil of the scriptural allegory as formulated by those inspired Irish Adepts, and though they have been denied the credit of authorship through a thieves’ compact of silence, their wisdom and their works still exist in both the Bible and The Great Pyramid of Iesa.

The second citation to prove that the Bible is Irish, purely and unmistakably so (and I defy contradiction), is taken from the Books of Mark and Samuel.

The Pharisees questioned Jesus because the disciples plucked ears of corn on the Sabbath. He said: “Have ye never read what David did when he had need … ? How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the High Priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for priests?” (Mark II: 24, 25, 26.)

The first Book of Samuel contains this version of David and the shewbread: “Then came David to Nob to Ahimelech the priest… So the priest gave him hallowed bread; for there was no other bread there but the shewbread, that was taken from before the Lord.” (Chap. 21, 1-6)

The foregoing is but a cryptic allusion to the perfecting work of the Initiate who is engaged in the effort of eradicating from his nature all worldly ambitions and the desires of the flesh for the development of his higher self, the Solar Body, the God within himself.

The word Abiathar, the name of the High Priest, is such a plain and easily recognized Irish word that even the uneducated Irishman or Scotsman, who is able to speak Gaelic, can understand it, and will recognize it at once as a word of Irish or Gaelic speech. It is a compound of two words. The word “Ab” means lord or father, and “Athar” is also the word for “father.” The two words combined would literally be “father-father.” The literal sense of it would be “Head-Father,” for the word Ab is applied to the head of a monastery; but the esoteric sense of it is High Father or God. The vowel letter I is introduced to connect the two words into one. The Roman-British scribe in this instance gives us a compound Irish word, and, of course, without the least suggestion that such is the case, makes a play on the name and presents it to us in the English version of the Bible as the name of the “Hebrew” high priest.

It is a priestly deception, as will be seen readily, on the part of the transcriber of Mark, when we understand that the character “David” and the incident connected with him is but a story invented for the purpose of containing and idea, as follows: Abiathar in this allegory alludes to the “High Father God,” manifesting spiritually through the Solar-Sun, in his human counterpart, which is the Solar or luminous spiritual body of the initiate “David,” who is on the upward path, striving for the victory of the spirit over matter, in the material body or flesh. This should be instructive to every wayfaring man who is traveling Eastward towards the dawn from darkness to light into whose hands these pages may come, as well as to the general body of Bible readers.

The copyist and transcriber who has given us the version ascribed to “Samuel” has “David” go to Nob to Ahimelech the priest. The word Nob is Irish and is spelled Noeb, but it is pronounced as if it were Na-ev, with the o having a short sound as oe. If the word was written by priests without the intent to deceive, they would have presented it to us in this form – Nob, the dot over the b making it v or bh, which, in the Irish, has the sound of v. They have taken advantage of the alphabetical features of the Irish language to perpetrate a fraud on the people of the world. The word Nob means Heaven, sacred or holy. The word Ahimelech means the Heavenly King or Solar Sun, who is figuratively a champion, hero, or ruler. Melchezedech is another form of the word from the same root. The letter a is pronounced broad, as if it were aw. The letter h is added to it for an aspirate to soften it. Together they form a prefix. “Melech” is the “Hebraized” or jargonized form of the Irish word Miol, an animal or ideal for the Sun. As the Sun moves swiftly, it is in imagination Miol, an animal. It is the figurative name given to the Sun by the Irish priests of Iesa. Therefore, the Sun is called Miolchu, pronounced Melchu, a greyhound. It is also called Onchu, a wold. Hence, the Terms applied to the Sun, “The Swift One,” “The Fierce One.” The greyhound and the wolfhound have ever been favorites with the Irish and figure in their legends and fables. We see the same deception practiced by the Irish Roman priesthood upon the Irish Catholics of our own day in the word Melcho, a name of the Personified Sun. He is the fictitious person to whom, in the story, “St. Patrick” was sold as a slave. Thus proving to us again that the lying and dishonest priests of Rome wrote a false and worthless history for the Irish people.

They are the people who stole the ancient Irish Bible and palmed it off on the world as a “Jewish” book, produced by a people over in Syria. It is an invention and an imposture on the world.

The Irish word for wolfdog is On. Hence, the Irish priests of Iesa, during the sojourn of the Irish race in Egypt, gave the name to a city on the Nile. They also applied the name Onchu, the wolf, to the Sun; therefore, we have the “Heavenly Wolf” Osiris, meaning the “High Eastern Sun” (From Os, high, and Soir, pronounced Sir and meaning East, - hence the Morning Sun). He is Horus, “The Risen,” from the Irish word Or, aspirated to Hor, meaning a Lord or Savior, one to whom prayer is offered. The word also means “From Whom,” in the sense of descent. Hence we find the Horus is the son of Osiris.

In the mythical idea, the Sun is Osiris in the early morning and he becomes Horus, the Risen Sun and Savior, in the early forenoon. He is the wolf Horus at noon when his rays are hot and oppressive, also Typhon, the Evil One. He is the Lord and Savior given to the Egyptian people to worship by the Irish priests of Iesa. Here are the facts that defy contradiction; the Irish language is the treasure house in which these indisputable proofs exist for everyone who wishes to view them. With the truths disclosed in these pages mankind is confronted with a new and altered viewpoint which gives us a new conception of history. The priest and churchman has imposed upon the credulity of the professor. A new perspective opens before us, and scholars and honest minded men and women must address themselves to the task of straightening out the confused and unreliable accounts of the past which have emanated from such obviously self-interested sources as Rome and Britain.

Ahimelech, then, like Abiathar, God, in his aspect of the Solar King or Sun, whose Divine Human Aspect is the perfected man. Therefore, in this myth, we are told that David ate the showbread, that is, he received the sacred wisdom of the priests, practived abstemiousness and self-denial and came into a state of holiness from which advances to the perfect or Messianic state. And so, from the advancing David, the Messiah is born. Hence, Jesus is said to be born of the “House of David.” Thus it is to the Irish Magian Adepts of the ancient religion of Iesa that we are indebted for the knowledge of these esoteric spiritual truths, preserved under the veil of allegory and myth.

The distinction and renown which the Magi gave to Ireland, which island in mythology is referred to as the “Isle of the Blest,” has been taken to herself by Rome, as if it all had come about since her ministration there; hence, the allusion made by her priests to Ireland as the “Island of Saints,” that is, Roman Saints. Those great men developed the powers of the soul and became God-like, while their Roman successors have become renowned for their capacity for acquiring stocks and bonds and become distinguished according to their ability as investors.

They have denied to the ancient Irish Masters of Wisdom all acknowledgement of their indebtedness and blotted out so far as they could the very memory of their existence, ascribing their erudition and wisdom to others and they mention them only to traduce them. They covertly refer to them as the “snakes” which “St. Patrick” banished from the island, while the multitude is taught to believe that it was the creeping reptiles of the dust that he banished. The latter never did exist in Ireland (The Esoteric Club, by Rev. Canon Lynch of Cork, Ireland). They do not apply to them the dignified term of “serpent” to imply what is low and evil. Baseness could go no further.

The Irish race has suffered humiliation even to this day, through this willful traduction and carefully directed perversion of their history. Fables have been invented and taught to the people as genuine facts and bona-fide history. The writer has, like others, absorbed a lot of their fiction and must confess it was some task to unlearn it and to adjust his mind to the reception of even obvious truths, which conflicted with pious “untruths.” It is certainly a preposterous thing to allow a body of pretentious impostors to instill their falsehoods into the minds of the growing youth. Moreover, this political priesthood insults our intelligence by considering themselves solely as “God’s anointed” and His special favorites. We are told that in England and Ireland it was the practice to give the priests in many places a number of shares of distillery stock as provision for their “future.” The priests speak of their churches as “plants,” just as if they were factories, and they are fitted up with slot receptacles to catch any fractional currency which might either by advice or suggestion be enticed from the pockets of the worshippers.

It is safe to say that light is advancing and that truth is progressing regardless of this reactionary force, which is now exposed for the first time in a manner which reveals their plot. It cannot help but open the eyes of mankind to the great fraud, and more especially awaken the Irish people who have been so foully betrayed and sold into the hands of their oppressors.

In the citations which I have given to show and prove that the Bible is an Irish Book, the names of places and the names of characters given show plainly the direct connection with and their derivation from the Irish. The elucidation of “The Great Pyramid” and of the topic “Egpyt” will add to this proof, so that anyone who comes with open mind and unbiased judgment will not fail to see it. Every lover of truth, qualified to judge, will be convinced that the names are Irish and only slightly changed in the form and spelling, changed only enough to deceive the unsuspecting. It is seldom that a man arises outside the ranks of the clergy who develops a knowledge of the elements upon which the religious myth is constructed. To solve the mystery of the origin of the Bible, this knowledge and that of the Irish language, combined with a true perspective of history, was necessary. It required also a true insight into Ireland’s past and the villainous intrigues of the Roman and British priesthoods and the role they played in shaping events of momentous consequence in world affairs. To conceal those facts from posterity, they had recourse to the scheme of falsifying the world’s history and substituting therefore a tissue of lies and inventions.

The British propaganda has been fostered by the government Board of Education and such misleading works as Pennock’s “Catechism of the History of Ireland” which were put into the Irish school system. Persecution and propaganda have served the purpose intended and have caused the Catholic Irish to place an almost blind belief in the integrity of their priests who are a part of the Roman Church and ably doing the work of Rome in carrying on this deception, while the English churchman has done his part to the same end, namely, the keep knowledge of Ireland’s great past history under over of oblivion.

The Irish Catholics were directed away from a study of the Bible instead of towards it and made to depend on what the priests saw fit to dole out to them. Otherwise it is reasonable to suppose that long before this day, some Irish-speaking person could not have failed to detect the idiomatic Irish in the very warp and woof of the Old Testament. It is an undeniable fact that the Irish-speaking Roman Catholics were not frequent readers, much less students, of the Bible. I have laid some stress on this phase of my theme, but not inordinately so, considering that I am announcing the greatest discovery in the history of all literature, that the Bible is Irish and of Irish origin. I am aware that this will be a shock and surprise to students and intellectuals in all the enlightened countries of the world, to be shown that they have been made the victims if a fraud. It was bound to be discovered in time, for truth so evident could not be hidden forever from the minds that were free from bias. Anyone qualified to approach the truth could not fail to see it, even though the schemers were reiterating their claims through the press and from all the pulpits in Christendom.

There is no doubt in the writer’s mind but that the inner circles in British Statecraft and High Church, as well as those of the Roman Church in Britain and Ireland, are keenly aware of this truth and carefully guard the secret of their fraud. A few years ago, the writer read a History of Ireland by Thomas Moore, the famous poet author, in which he bewailed the fact that at every turn in his quest for knowledge and facts he found a conspiracy of silence and suppression. He produced his work under just such discouraging conditions, but he rendered a service to posterity by publishing his observations of the attitude of those persons who were in a position to assist him in his search for facts, had they wished to do so.

My studies and investigations have enabled me to discover facts and truths as presented here and these truths will stand every investigation. It all goes to prove that even the cleverest forgers and falsifiers are not safe from exposure and discovery. So it is the case the Roman and British forgers. Although the imposition of the Savior Jesus, and the substitution of him for Iesa, brought great riches to the Roman Church, it required a great and tremendous effort to succeed in making it appear to the world that he had an actual historical existence.

The people were in a terrible state of ignorance and superstition, a condition which was favorable to the Church in effecting this cherished idea. Her ambition to make that one project alone successful was the cause of inflicting untold misery and suffering upon the people of three continents during the wars of the Crusades, which were instituted for that end. The Roman church was obliged to enlist that there were two million lives lost in carrying out that scheme in the struggle to drive the Mohammedans out of Syria in the tenth and eleventh centuries. It was during the occupancy of the so-called Holy Land by the Crusaders for a period of 87 years that Rome gave the names to the localities and places there which are mentioned in the scriptures, and which names had not been before identified with such places.

During that time they did everything that they thought necessary or that circumstances would permit in preparing the ground to place marks of identification about each locality which was selected to be the birthplace or scene of activity of each of the mythical characters to whose fictitious existence special significance or prominence was to be given.

Such, for instance, is the example of the patriarchal character “Abraham” whom they assigned to the “Land of Ur” in Chaldea. Ur is an idiomatic Irish word, and means the Sun, Fire, and the East. The word also expresses and Irish idea or conception of Heaven. Ur is connected with the fabulous Irish land Tir-na-N’og – the land of the young, or the land of perpetual youth. The meaning of Ur in this instance is fresh, green, plenty, new (not stale or old), liberal, and the land of plentiousness, the Heavenly Kingdom. And Abraham himself is most obviously an Irish idea of the personified Sun. There can be no room for doubt as to this fact as he comes from Ur (the Sun), and, to be true to Irish mythic form, each syllable of his name is a name of the Sun. The word Ab is an Irish name for father, and here signifies Father or Creator Sun. And Rah means the moving or revolving Sun. And Am means time, for the Sun’s the Governor and Lord of Time and Regulator of the seasons. And, furthermore, as Abraham is the Sun, he comes from Ur in Chaldea. Chaldea is a mythical and fictitious name falsely said to be of a country in Asia. The name is from the Irish word Caul – (a veil, secret, hidden), meaning mystically the Great Unseen. A Culdee was an Irish religious ascetic of the worship of Iesa, a seer.

Abraham has two female consorts, one of whom he marries. She is Sarah, from the Irish word Sor or Sorc (Sark), meaning delight, light, pleasure, bright, conspicuous, clear, the day. The other woman was name Hagar, from the root word Acor, meaning covetousness, desire. She represents the night. The letter h is only an auxiliary in the Irish alphabet and is used as an aspirate. But the “Doctors” have used it as a regular letter for deceptive reasons in the formation of the name of this mythic character. And, instead of using the letter c, they use the g. These two letters, in the old manuscripts, were often used one for the other indiscriminately.

And so we have Hagar. And, as she is Desire, she is not Abraham’s true wife but his concubine. She bears him a son, Ishmael (the Irish Ies-Moal). Ies is the Sun, and Moal means bald. The young Sun, or early morning Sun, is said to be bald as he has no rays until later. So Ishmael is the young or morning Sun born of the Night. So, in the Irish Bible myth, we find that Abraham, the Sun, has two wives, Sarah the fair one, the Day, and Hagar the dark one, the Night. Sarah is jealous of Hagar the concubine and has Abraham send her away. In the phenomena of Nature, the Day always sends the Night away.

[RedeZra]

The first of the two citations to be given in this chapter is from the Book of John (Ch. 3, 23d verse). “And John was baptizing in Aenon near to Salem, because there was much water there; and they came and were baptized.”

---

The meaning of this myth is that John (Aen – The Sun) was baptizing in Aenon, the City of the Sun, near Salem, the City of God, in the realm of Light, the celestial kingdom. Where else could such a being as the pure and perfected man be said to dwell?


It was during the occupancy of the so-called Holy Land by the Crusaders for a period of 87 years that Rome gave the names to the localities and places there which are mentioned in the scriptures, and which names had not been before identified with such places.




tnx to the Irish patriot ; )

and now over to some facts


the Madaba Mosaic Map (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madaba_Map) is part of a floor mosaic in the early Byzantine church of Saint George at Madaba Jordan dated to the 6th century


the Madaba Map shows the location of Aenon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%86non)symmetrical with the location of Bethabara across the Jordan





The mosaic map depicts an area from Lebanon in the north to the Nile Delta in the south, and from the Mediterranean Sea in the west to the Eastern Desert. Among other features, it depicts the Dead Sea with two fishing boats, a variety of bridges linking the banks of the Jordan, fish swimming in the river and receding from the Dead Sea; a lion (rendered nearly unrecognisable by the insertion of random tesserae during a period of iconoclasm) hunting a gazelle in the Moab desert, palm-ringed Jericho, Bethlehem and other biblical-Christian sites. The map may partially have served to facilitate pilgrims' orientation in the Holy Land. All landscape units are labelled with explanations in Greek. A combination of folding perspective and aerial view depicts about 150 towns and villages, all of them labelled.

The largest and most detailed element of the topographic depiction is Jerusalem, at the centre of the map. The mosaic clearly shows a number of significant structures in the Old City of Jerusalem: the Damascus Gate, the Lions' Gate, the Golden Gate, the Zion Gate, the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, the New Church of the Theotokos, the Tower of David and the Cardo Maximus. The recognisable depiction of the urban topography makes the mosaic a key source on Byzantine Jerusalem. Also unique are the detailed depictions of cities such as Neapolis, Askalon, Gaza, Pelusium and Charachmoba, all of them nearly detailed enough to be described as street maps.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madaba_Map#Topographic_representation

[danceblackcatdance]

dude, i suggested doing some research... but you've just latched on to the first thing that backs up your beliefs :)

not going to do battle with you RedeZra... am not even Irish, just exploring the possible truth, but you believe what you want of course...

'man made' religion is unravelling now... enjoy the ride :cool:

[observer]

In his book, "The Biggest Secret", (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/biggestsecret/biggestsecretbook/biggestsecret.htm#contents), in the Second Chapter (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/biggestsecret/biggestsecretbook/biggestsecret02.htm) (scroll-down to 'Sons of the gods'), David Icke explains what we have all been trying to show the members who are giving testimony that the Bible is the "true word of God", here in this thread:



Quote from Icke's book:

"In the last book of the Bible, the Book of Revelation, we see the clear connection made between the being known as Satan and the serpent or reptile:

“And the great dragon was cast down, the old serpent, he that is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world; he was cast down to earth and his angels were cast down with him.” [Revelations 12:9]

“...And he laid hold on the dragon, the old serpent, which is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and cast him into the abyss, and shut it, and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more.” [Revelations 20:2-3]

In a Dead Sea Scroll fragment translated by the Hebrew scholar, Robert Eisenman, there is a description of a watcher called Belial (Bel?), who is described as the Prince of Darkness and the King of Evil. He is said to be terrifying in his appearance - like a serpent with a visage like a viper. One of the main angelic groups in Hebrew lore is the Seraphim or ‘fiery serpents’ and the Watchers are very much connected to the description of serpents. In the Persian teachings they also talk of a being they describe as ‘the old serpent having two feet’, just as the Book of Enoch features walking serpents.

When you consider that the Draco royal leadership is said to be up to 12 feet tall and white skinned, indeed albino white, ‘whiter than snow’, it again relates to the very white skin of the giant Watcher-human hybrid babies described in the Book of Enoch and elsewhere. And, I should emphasize, the birth of the human-Watcher child in the Book of Enoch is that of Noah. If this be so, Noah is, in fact, a reptile-human hybrid and many peoples have sought to claim descendence from Noah -descendence from the reptilian Watchers and Anunnaki. In Hebrew myth, the Nefilim are described as awwim which means devastators or serpents.

In the Dead Sea Scrolls (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/scrolls_deadsea/scrolls_deadsea.htm), Noah is described as looking like “the children of the (fallen) angels of heaven” whose “conception was (due) to the Watchers (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vida_alien/alien_watchers.htm)... and to the Nefilim”. In Jewish lore, Eve is seen as the ancestral mother of the Nefilim and associated with the Hebrew words meaning life and snake. Eve was, of course, tempted by the serpent according to Old Testament myth and other sources. In Chapter 69 of the Book of Enoch we find that among the Watchers who revealed the secrets to humans was Gadreel, the fallen angel who has been identified with tempting Eve.

The Book of Enoch was banned by the Roman Church which sought to deny the earlier Christian belief in the existence of flesh and blood angels and fallen angels occupying physical bodies and interbreeding with humans. This was to stop the masses understanding the true situation. But the Freemasons, who control the Roman Catholic Church today along with other Brotherhood offshoots, have always looked upon Enoch as one of their legendary founders. The very name Enoch means ‘initiated’. [emphasis by observer]

The theme of the fallen angels giving forbidden secrets to humanity can be found in the Book of Enoch and other works. Among these tellers of secrets is Azazel, who taught the art of metal making, and Shemyaza, who taught the magical arts. These tales spawned many later heroes based on this theme, the most famous of which is the Greek god, Prometheus, who is said to have stolen fire (knowledge) from the gods and given it to humans (selected humans).

A gold statue of Prometheus stands in the Rockefeller Center in New York. The Rockefellers are reptilian full-bloods and therefore are fully aware of the true significance and background of the Prometheus legend. Incidentally, the Watcher called Azazel is the origin of the goat head in Satanic ritual and the term ‘scapegoat’. According to the Book of Leviticus, the Israelites would sacrifice two male goats at Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement. One was offered to God and the other to Azazel. The priest placed both hands on the head of the Azazel goat and confessed the sins of the people.

The goat would then be taken into the wilderness and plunged over a cliff, symbolizing the fallen angel Azazel, who was seen as bound and chained in the wilderness - the ‘abyss’ in the language of the Book of Revelation - which I think is imprisonment in the lower fourth dimension. From this comes the ancient theme of the scapegoat which manifested in one form as the symbolic story of ‘Jesus’. The goat head of Azazel, a fallen angel-reptilian, is symbolized by the inverted pentagram of Satanism."

What I wrote in comment #973 is corroborating evidence to what Icke is saying in this (above) quote. The 'alleged' Moses of the Old Testament worshiped a reptile. His alter in the Tabernacle was the Nehushtan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nehushtan). That reptile was known (in the Old Testament) as Yahweh.



Comment #973:
Click-on forwarding arrow to view content of comment.

Once one understands the Bible was a expert con-job, wherein the life and teachings of the entity Yeshua ben Joseph was co-opted into the false dogma of Trinity Christianity, by those same archons that Yeshua was trying to warn us about, it becomes abundantly clear whom Yeshua was speaking of when he said to the Pharisees in John 8:44:

"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."


I post these comments out of Love for my fellow human beings - just as Yeshua ben Joseph was trying to warn the Mass of Humanity of the deception of the archons.

The "One True God" of Yeshua ben Joseph, the God of Unconditional Love, IS NOT Yahweh.

Put all your faith in Yahweh, any you will end-up with the essence of your soul eaten by this Demigod.

They are very clever at what they do....

[Kindred]

dude, i suggested doing some research...

'man made' religion is unravelling now... enjoy the ride :cool:

ALL Corrupt systems Will Collapse...

In Unity, Peace and Love

[ROMANWKT]

The one truth is a very good question with a broad range of understandings and conclusions.

So here goes, there is no such thing as truth, it cannot be, ones belief is not a truth, ones faith is not a truth, even thoughts are not truth, what one sees is not a truth, what one feels is not a truth.

The only thing that could be called the truth is the unchanging, something that never changes ever, that would be a truth of a true state, now think about the unchanging, what is there that never changes, in physical matter everything keep changing its state, therefore it cannot be a truth.

The only truth is ZERO state, a nothing, all else is added, a belief becomes a truth for somebody, its a belief, its not a truth. You can change your beliefs on a day to day basis and prove to yourself that what was true yesterday is not the truth today. Mind is not a truth, it a creator, therefore there cannot be a right or a wrong, good or bad, as its just a belief, and belief is not a truth. God is not a truth, one may be psychologically more stable in an emergency for instance by believing in a support by a God, but it not a truth, its a belief, and a belief in a God makes you manipulative, and its not a truth.

What you believed as a child has changed to what you know now and in what you believe now, its not a truth, it a belief.

Mind creates what you believe, what you have created with mind is not a truth, its a belief.

The hidden gift of humanity is belief, for whatever you believe in, you will create, but its not a truth, it a belief, a forever changing function of creation by mind, by your beliefs, but its not the truth it a belief.

All the opinions and all the knowledge are nothing more than here-say that is believed in, and mind creates it into reality, but its not a truth, its an accepted belief.

The system is designed to unify all of humanity’s beliefs for the system manipulation.

The system proposes that they are the holders of truth, they are in fact holders of your belief, which is not a truth, but we believe them, therefore we are bound to them by a belief, which is not the truth.


It’s all nonsense part 1

Will you see why?

Through quantum physics we understand that all is wave, until we bring consciousness into focus, then all becomes particles according to one’s mind set. You will materialize all according to your beliefs. Particles and materialization is the gross low frequency end of a high frequency consciousness.

There is consciousness we all share and we are this consciousness. Therefore we are all born of this consciousness. All life and objects are condensed particles of consciousness. Reality is a state of condensed consciousness and that’s why we call it an illusion. Your brain, your body, this earth and this universe is all part of the illusion, condensed consciousness.

Your whole experience of life is in the brain, converting consciousness to particles. It’s all in the brain and it’s all mental because all your experiences are through your senses and your senses are interpreted only by your brain. This consciousness is configured by the brain and all results are by your beliefs, therefore, you can only do and see all according to your beliefs.

All humans born are already realized. Realization is not something that we learn or achieve as we educate and move on in life searching for the path to being. It’s something that we have lost. We were born already realized and with no veil between you and Being, no filters and beliefs.

All blocks (filters/beliefs) are thoughts and feelings, all based on our so called education by parents and the establishment, which in turn become our established induced limiting beliefs.

There are no limits, there is only belief in limits. How can you have limits when all is an illusion? There is no such thing as impossible because you are dealing with an illusion.

How can you want and crave for things when they are already yours? If it’s in your illusion you already own it, just ask and it shall be given, you have to know and understand that.

All you have to do is allow your intentions to happen. When you don’t need or want, it’s yours. When you need or want, you can’t have it.

You can have it all, you can have anything you want as long as you don’t need or want it; that’s how it works. Just allow your intentions to come, no push or pull, completely centred, complete knowing, complete understanding that whatever your intentions, it will come, it’s yours.

How can a multidimensional being need and want?? Beingness is oblivious to such emotions. Why? Because man does not walk on this plane by these means, beingness is.
When you understand who and what you are, you set an intention and ALLOW your intention to manifest. There are no ifs or buts, no push and pull, it just is, it’s a knowing, a certainty, you just know.

When you throw a stone you have that knowing, that certainty, that it will land somewhere. You have the knowing that it will not stay up in the air somewhere, you are most certain of that, of that knowing.

You start a cause with a focused intention, you don’t push or pull, you are centred, you always walk this plain with an air of certainty and you have absolute certainty that you will have an effect, period.

This is very important to understand. It’s what has been stolen from you by feeding your mind with garbage and misinformation. It’s been hidden from you so that you will never assume your natural creative faculties on this plane. You need to know and understand who and what you really are.

All negative thought and feeling will bring trauma-based disorders into your body. They will stay there until death unless removed. All traumas are a recording of an emotion by the mind/body which brings about body malfunction and deformities. There is no such thing as germs, there is no such thing as illness and all these things are introduced into one’s consciousness by the mind, which is a recorder and the creator of all your problems.

You, the “I”, is the Master. You control the mind with what you think and what you create and do. You don’t have the “I AM” telling you what to do, a construct of your mind. You the “I” controls your outcome on this material plane as your being, not some “I AM” - a figment of your creative mind and imagination, it’s not real, it’s just an identifier, an EGO.

The I am
who is a do’er
and a constructor
and a construction
itself

THAT’S ALL THE EGO IS, A CONSTRUCTION OF AN IDENTITY BY YOUR CREATIVE MIND.
ALL IS CREATED, EVEN YOURSELF, THAT’S ALL MIND IS, A CREATOR AND RECORDER, PERIOD.

IT’S NOT YOUR BEING. YOUR BEING ALLOWS YOU TO DO ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING THAT YOU WANT ON THIS PLANE.

The mind gets in the way by obstructing you with recorded misinformation and challenges you on everything that you wish to achieve by your blocks/filters/beliefs/garbage, and stops you from being who and what you really are, and in finding yourself, your being, whilst on this plane.

By removing all blocks, (filters, beliefs) you come to your being. Your ego and its belief in itself is a block as separation. There is no such thing as separation, as the ego is a creation of the mind.

Put your senses to sleep and you are with your being. Let go of your senses and you are with your being. Stop mind chatter and you are with your being.

There is absolutely nothing outside of you. You are all there is. All life, people, trees, world and universe that you see in your mind are other reflections of the same consciousness.

Your eyes see only light, the brain converts it to an image from consciousness. All things stem from within consciousness, there is nothing without. How far is the end of the universe from where you are standing? Take a tape measure and measure the distance from the back of your head to the front; is that how far it is?

You/we are the centre of it all, you/we are all there is. If your consciousness affects the quantum field, what’s true, what’s real?

Nothing.

Our biggest problems in life are the hidden thoughts, tendencies and emotions that we carry all of our life, which burden all of the people, all seven billion of us, with negative misinformation that has been deeply implanted in us since a very early age.


These are very deep and hidden from us in our subconscious (the recorder). The subconscious is just a recording device, and negative recordings, are not life supporting. So if there are health problems, emotional problems, physical problems, it is almost impossible to find them all.

Psychoanalysis is a very long - winded way of trying to trace the root cause of one’s problem. NLP is too hit-and-miss, so is EFT. They are good when you roughly know what the problem may be, otherwise all the systems available are useless because nobody knows what’s hidden deep in one’s subconscious/recording. It’s difficult to find all hidden recordings to revert back to Being.

When everything that you try to do doesn’t work, under any and all issues in life, and you can’t resolve the problem when things keep going wrong and you do not know why, then the only conclusion must be blocks, filters, beliefs and garbage in the subconscious, recorder/mind that work against you.

These blocks come under thoughts and emotions that carry all of one’s issues, like health, wealth, happiness, etc.

I will show the six most negative emotions.

Apathy Grief Fear Lust Anger Pride

Below each emotion there are hundreds of tendencies. And below these hundreds of tendencies, under each emotion, there are millions of your thoughts that make you the person you are.

THESE ARE YOUR BELIEFS.

THIS IS NOT WHO AND WHAT WE REALLY ARE!

THIS IS WHAT A HUMAN BEING CONSISTS OF IN THE MATERIAL WORLD.
A BUNCH OF EMOTIONS, TENDENCIES AND THOUGHTS, ALL CREATED BY THE MIND AND RECORDED.

A tendency is like a trigger that releases stored thoughts in our subconscious. For example, if a driver’s tendency is triggered with anger emotion by people not signalling when turning left or right, all thoughts associated with this tendency rise up to the surface with the emotion of anger.

The thoughts that may come up are like this:

You go after the other driver and stop his car. You go to the driver and ask if this particular model was equipped with a indicator. When he answers yes, you proceed to break his indicator lever off and shove it up right up his arse.

Now I doubt that anybody would actually do it, but you did think it. Therefore the deed is done and the recording is more deeply seated.

Now by understanding this, from then on you choose to consciously release that tendency when it next rises up. After a few persistent tries you will drop this tendency and all the hundreds of thoughts associated with it fall like a brick.

Every time a tendency arises under any emotion it must be released and not put down or suppressed, otherwise suppressed tendencies and emotions will do more damage to you psychologically and physically and this creates an even stronger block to your return to Being-ness.

If you start a pyramid apex under each of the six emotions listed above and as they spread out, they all start to overlap each other to a bottomless pit, as all these pyramids have no base. Now we can imagine the complexity of a human being, the complexity of the human mind, the recordings.

Imagine dropping an emotion by totally releasing it every time it rises. When you drop that emotion out of your life you drop hundreds of tendencies associated with this emotion, as well as, millions of accumulated associated thoughts that go with it that one has gathered in one’s lifetime. This is misinformation and programming, negative beliefs, THE BLOCKS, THE FILTERS, THE BELIEFS, all must go.

Yes it can be done and it is being done by people who understand this and do it. It’s called releasing, which I will explain in the second part.

Now imagine one more emotion in the centre above the row of the six emotions. Start an apex of a pyramid going down as the pyramid spreads and widens over the six emotions, that jewel would be DESIRE.

Imagine dropping desire out of one’s life and every emotion that you can think and feel would be dropped, along with all the thousands of tendencies and millions of thoughts all wiped off by releasing DESIRE.

Now you would be in a state of pure Being.

There is absolutely no resistance to your thoughts. All filters/blocks/ or negative beliefs are a RESISTANCE to all your rightful powers. Once all resistance is removed a mere thought would manifest anything.

These are the gifts and powers on this plane, in this conscious illusion that was given to us as our birthright by the source of all consciousness and our beingness. We all seek this from outside of ourselves and the source of it all is within you, it’s you!

This is what they never wanted humanity to know. This is the secret of all ages. This is the power that they have had over us for thousands of years. This is the knowledge that is hidden from us all. WHY? Because with this knowledge YOU DON’T NEED THEM.
You don’t need anybody. The source of all things is you, it is within you. You are pure consciousness of love and creation. There is nothing outside you, you are all there is.

As one proceeds to weaken all the emotion by releasing, energy, health, happiness, peace and beingness start to return to you. The resistance or blocks start to weaken and you start coming closer to your being. Your DNA will start to be affected by your being and that blueprint, which is uniquely you, starts to repair the imbalances in your body and reinstate the perfection of health and happiness that you are.

HOW TO RELEASE

The information in the first part is just a basic foundation of understanding; we need to understand before we can release. Though that is not quite true because we all release naturally without realizing it -- but understanding makes working with your psyche easier.

For example, have you ever been in a heated argument where you saw that it was leading nowhere and you walked out of the house or went to another room and slammed the door, then gasped or screamed? Or you just blew a large amount of air out of your lungs in disgust? Well you just released that negative energy out of your system because it’s too much to handle and you can’t hold it in; you have to let it go.

Imagine holding onto that feeling and not letting go of it. What do you think would be the consequence of holding it permanently within yourself? Believe me, it would be very damaging to you.

We can see that the matter of releasing is very simple and an effective way that we do naturally so we don’t overload our system.

The following exercise may look very simple, but it’s very powerful when applied in a controlled way to remove blocks in your subconscious mind.

Place you hands on your heart centre/chakra. Now move your fingers down on your rib cage until you start to feel the soft bit of the top of your stomach. Next place you hand half way between the soft bit of your stomach and your centre lower rib cage.

I want you to imagine a door.


Now this door can open like a draw bridge from a castle opening downwards or opening from the bottom upwards, or two doors opening from the centre like a cuckoo clock. You choose it doesn’t matter; all we need is a door that will open at your command. You need to see it there.

Now imagine a smoke that would represent negativity. What colour would you attach to that smoke? Would it be black, white, dirty brown, red, pink, blue? It doesn’t matter. It just has to be picked by you, whatever represents negativity to you.

These are the mental tools that we set up to work with your psyche. We don’t visualize shapes or forms or archetypes that we don’t understand the full symbolism of that are placed by doctrines of people who don’t really understand. Trust nothing. Trust only your higher self as best that you can for the moment.

The biggest problem with all these doctrines is the hidden control factors, guru worship nonsense, new-age ideology crap. You are you and that’s all there is to it. You only need to bring out what you really are, not garbage-in and garbage-out syndrome. Remove all the garbage and you will see who you really are and what the rest of humanity really is.

Your job is to return to your Being-ness, to bring forth love, health, happiness, prosperity, abundance, peace, and total freedom.

You will be adding absolutely nothing but will be removing everything that stands between you and your Being-ness. Nearly all the thinkers here in Avalon understand that mind is all there is. We all talk about rising of consciousness and there are a thousand-and-one ways of achieving this by putting in more rules and regulation, principles and doctrines. I don’t think so. The only reason that we don’t have higher consciousness is because we are full of methods, disinformation and weird procedures.

Could it be that simple? That a self-regulating application working on your own thoughts raises your consciousness level?? You bet.

The best place to start is at the beginning.

Find yourself a comfortable place to relax and make sure you are alone at first. When I said at the beginning, I meant as from when you were a baby or from the earliest age that you remember.
I want you to relive your whole life from then to now, step by step. The whole process here is to check your emotions and to FORGIVE.

Forgive and understand the child within that has accepted many false teachings as it grew up, then go with the relations, your mother, your father, your sister and your brother, your grandmother and your grandfather, your uncles and your aunts.

As you go through the family first, check any emotions that arise. If there is something there, allow it to come up whatever it is and open the door in the area in the middle of your rib cage and stomach. Then allow this feeling and/or emotion to flow out of this door like a smoke of the colour that you have chosen. You can help the smoke to leave your body with your breath by pursing your lips as to blow a candle, but blowing gently assisting the smoke to leave you with a trail few feet long gently leaving through your door.

If the emotion is strong keep doing it until there is no strength left. It’s probably deep and you should return to that emotion often until that emotion does not raise itself again. Many people cry and that helps to remove it. Always release all emotions, that’s the whole idea of bringing them up.
Bring them up and get rid of them by using the door and the smoke. You are telling your psyche to get rid of it out of your system.

You don’t forgive and forget. You forgive and get rid of it by releasing, that’s the object of the whole thing. You do this with everybody and everything. Start with yourself, your family, your friends now and from the past, your boss, your work mates, everybody and everything including all pets and animals.

If you have had a very bad experience with anybody, bring that emotion up, talk to this person and ask them to forgive you. Send them love and see them smiling before you leave them. Always see everybody smile before you leave them.

It doesn’t matter if they are dead, make up with them and forgive. If for any reason you feel that somebody, for whatever reason, would never in a million years forgive you, that’s no problem as long as you have forgiven and apologized and let go of that emotion by releasing it out of the door with the smoke. It is done, you have forgiven yourself.

As you go through all these experiences from the past to the present, you must keep releasing all these emotions through your door with the smoke. Your psyche will accept and understand what you are doing.
This may take some weeks to months.

Go through all the events of your life reliving the past that had accumulated a lot of emotions that have left their mark on you somehow. All guilt must be brought up and released until it has no more power left to raise itself. Keep releasing, keep releasing and keep releasing.

Eventually you will be able to walk outside and keep your doors open permanently; nothing will bother you. As all data, no matter what comes to you, immediately leaves you through your open door. Nothing will be able to upset you. All nonsense bombarding you will not have an affect, it comes in and straight out, you cannot be touched, period.

You will end up being very light and at peace with everybody. And everything in your illusion will be at peace with you.

roman

[ROMANWKT]

It’s all nonsense: part 2.

Please read part 1 first, makes more sense.

This is not a doctrine or a philosophy; make of it what you will. I am only sharing with you what I had found out after years of searching and reading of the physical, mental and spiritual which were eventually the tools that in the end I had to dump, which I did.

I cannot go into details about all that I cover here as I’m not writing a book, this is just for us here on Avalon.

We are manifestors, the creators of our reality. We as humanity have been divided as to weaken our consensus to manifest the reality that we all seek. The divisions are basically through different religious, political, racist and tribal systems around the world that are governing beliefs and creating a divided consensus. Beliefs are the essence of all manifestations and creation on this plane through the gateway of the subconscious mind.

We all have governing beliefs that were imposed and accepted by us as children and even now as adults these beliefs are very deeply seated in our subconscious mind and are fixed there until our death.

The subconscious is a recorder and is part of your survival kit, a manifestor of all that you would ever need to sustain yourself in this illusion.

And the subconscious also remembers, reminds, and warns you so you don’t continue to make dangerous mistakes, which could lead to your extinction from this reality.

All religions are targeted to indoctrinate the first 7 years of life of any child. The basic limiting factors are set in the subconscious by that time making the child look outside of itself for guidance, i.e.: gods, survival and manifesting.

If indoctrination was not given by any religious authority by that time, the results will still be the same as the parents pass this on because of their own indoctrination by the system or their parent. There is no escape, it’s a vicious circle.

The children grow up knowing nothing of what they are and what this reality really is. The children will be directed to ask a “god” to help them through life so that they can attain love, health, prosperity and happiness, and it will be the WILL of a “god” that these things will manifest for them.

Believing in a “god” is not a problem. BELIEVING IN A “god” OUTSIDE OF YOURSELF IS! And so the damage is done.

Who in their right mind would make a young, impressionable child kneel in front of a battered corpse nailed to beams of wood asking the child to pray for forgiveness for being a sinner? What kind of impression would that child have for the rest of its life of not only of a “god”, but of humanity?

You will be directed to pray to replicas of human beings called “gods or saints” and in turn these statues will ask a “god” on your behalf to get what you want in this life. The design of this nonsense is by the very clever Brotherhood, it is set-up to re-direct your powers away from YOU. This very same method is used against you with money, as you can’t get what you want in life unless you have the Brotherhood’s money.

So now everybody is praying to idols of fiction or the use of superstition asking for lots of fiat toilet paper so that they can get what they desire. They will work and slave for the rest of their life to achieve that end.

In part one the emphasis was on your blocks to your power. All the worldwide systems are designed to block you mentally, spiritually and physically in order to reduce your powers of self determination; otherwise, you are not a controllable entity for them as a slave to THEIR vision of THEIR consensus for THEIR Empire.

They are the masters of division by any means, way, shape or form.

Hence, a divided humanity is a weak divided consensus, so the only reason that we live on a hell planet or a prison planet is that humanity has given their power and consensus to them for thousands of years.
If we understand that this reality is an illusion, a condensation of consciousness, we start to realize what a stupendous fraud was perpetrated on humanity by some very clever people who understood how they could place themselves above humanity and create a very clever ideology of falsehood that would enslave humanity forever.

Let’s take an imaginary trip into consciousness.

Let’s imagine that you are reading this on your screen and you are focusing your consciousness into that room, the screen. Now imagine taking a few steps back and close an imaginary door and now you are in the room that your computer resides in. Now walk back out of this room and close the door and now you are in the rest of your house. Now imagine walking back again into your bedroom and close the door, now lie down on your bed.

While you are lying on the bed and relaxing, the brain starts to slowly shut off; all your senses, one by one. Your breath is slowly getting shallower and you feel that you are slipping away from your body. Slowly, your feelings start to disappear, you don’t really know where your hands and feet are, your sense of smell is diminishing and you no longer have any taste in your mouth. Your hearing is diminishing slowly, images are passing by in your mind and your eyes are slowly beginning to close. Images are now more dominant, but seem to just flow on and on. Now that this door is shutting, we’ll move on backwards.

You are now in your mind and nothing has changed. You are walking down a high street looking for your wife and children as they are doing their weekly shopping and you’ve come to help and drive them back home. You see your family and start to run towards them. Your body on the other hand does not move because your brain is shutting down your nervous system, in fact your whole body is now in a state paralysis and all your movements are mental, in your mind only.

If you kept yourself conscious while the brain was shutting your system down you would experience an OBE (out of body experience). You are now in what is called the astral. You have all your faculties and functions and more, but every thought materializes instantaneously. You still have all the function of intention and you still have all and every emotion of love, fear, etc.

Now step back again from this reality and close the door. You find yourself hardly conscious, you feel or you think you feel part of all that is. You can’t define anything as individual; all is and all seems to “just be”. You feel you are all there is, yet seem to be nothing but a dot. A full stop and yet everything is still in a state of potential.


Now let’s step back and close this door. Now all is nothingness and oblivion. There is light, but, and that’s a big but, you are still a potential, a dot, a full stop. Step back and close this door.

BLANK

Imagine being a potential, a dot again. Where would that potentiality come from? Some would say from the source of all things. Some call it God, fine no problem. Are you in a state of going TO or coming FROM a state of potentiality?

This is important. Are you going into or are you coming out of that state of potentiality? Well can you come from nothingness? Or is there something, a force, a spark behind your potentiality. Most would say we are coming from something, a source, and not from “nothing” to the source.

Therefore, you have a source as your potentiality behind you, the dot.

Now step forward and open a door in front of you with your potentiality and never close that door again, ever.

The reason why we went through the doors was to backup and show you that there could not be anything outside of yourself. From the dot stage our consciousness expands into a “mind realm” of the astral and on further expansion into a “mind realm” of condensed consciousness we call The Matrix.

On close inspection of condensed consciousness, it is a mathematically based reality, as is the Earth and the Universe in this realm of mind. It’s a creation. It’s a realm of mental construct, a mind created playground, which makes us think of this creation as a reality, which it is not.

From every blade of grass right up to the universe, it is not a power unto itself. It is of consciousness, just like your body and every single strand of hair on your head. All animate and inanimate is consciousness, everything, every single thing. There is no power outside of itself here for the source is everything and everything is source, every single speck of dust is source, condensed consciousness.

There is nothing that is above or below you in status here. There is nothing that is more sacred or divine here that is either above or below you. There are no “gods” or powers here that are above or below you, all is equal, all is one, all is in this condensed conscious reality.

You are a conscious being with a mind that can co-create its reality here.

You have the faculties to manipulate this illusion and manifest your thoughts into condensed consciousness, i.e.: matter. You were not given a power of potentiality, you are that power, you are of source and so is everything in this reality. Everything is source.

There is no power greater or lesser than you that is outside of you on this plane. And you are no greater or lesser than any other creation on this plane. All is source and all power resides from within. There is nothing outside of itself, or by itself. You are part of all that is, all is consciousness.

We return every night in sleep into a mental realm of the astral and return to a condensed consciousness reality every morning called Earth, where our illusionary biological suit awaits us. Masters have been telling people for thousands of years that this realm that we call reality is an illusion, it’s a mental plane created by mind. It is condensed consciousness.

Our suit, the body, can feel only through our senses that are connected to the brain and all your reality is translated by the brain. The brain makes this reality feel solid by the resonating frequency that each texture of condensed consciousness emits.

The higher the frequency, the finer and softer the feel that the brain translates. The lower the frequency, the harder and more rigid the feel that the brain translates. You and everything, including the Earth and Universe, are a mass of resonating frequencies called condensed consciousness, stemming from consciousness.

When out of body (OBE) in the astral, your resonating frequency will be higher and above that of Earth. Your mind is not your brain. Your mind is on a far higher frequency than the brain. Your mind just walks through this reality and this reality is no barrier to the mind. You can walk through walls and mountains, you can walk under the sea, you can explore the universe, you can create anything and everything instantaneously. You create a mental duplicate in the astral of this world and the universe. Therefore, is the astral a continuation of a creation, The Matrix????

Why do you go to sleep? It is said to recharge you. For most people who stop themselves from sleeping for too long this illusion starts to fall apart. We see that we cant sustain this reality continuously.

Stop yourself from sleeping without drugs for 2 or 3 days then watch and listen to what will begin to happen. All sorts of things will try to tear you out of your body, to the astral, try it. Why do you think the system is so against people taking natural hallucinogens? Is it because these people will eventually realize that this worldly reality is nothing but the working of mind and the sterile materialism sold to all of us on a daily basis?

That this is a false reality perpetuated by corrupt ideology that is forced down our throats from every established world system? (corporate, economic, military, religious, educational, judicial, etc.)

You have the capacity to store great energy that keeps your connection strong while in your body. This energy used by a focused mind with an intention will bring results. One of the most powerful emotions that we all possess is sexual. Understanding and use of this energy brings health, longevity and emotional balance in one’s life.

The whole of the western system is designed to deplete you of this important energy. It is designed to keep you locked in the 3 chakras below your belt. Masters throughout all ages have always taught to centre yourself from the heart. The 3 chakras above the heart are of mind, the 3 chakras below the heart is of earth or ground; the centre of us all is the heart.

Deal in all things with the heart, not the mind. And not from the material or ground.

Those that resist the temptation to deplete themselves can, with correct balance, attain kundalini. Countless people throughout the world achieve this state without realizing what is happening to them.

There is no past or future, all is now, all is present only. The mind remembers and that is what you think is your past. There is no future, only a constant stream of now. Imagine standing in the middle of 3 squares. The square behind you is your past (a memory), the square you are standing in is your present/now, the square in front of you is your future. When you focus on your past (a recorded memory) you are bringing it into your present/now, which will become your future again (from the past). When you focus on the future it will always be in the future; you will never get there. Whatever you focus on in the present/now will then become your future. There is only now.

Your subconscious mind is your programmed memory. All the disinformation that you have been indoctrinated with is now on autopilot from your subconscious mind, which is constantly projecting into the present/now and is creating the future for you automatically.

It is your beliefs in the garbage that’s been impressed on you which are the limiting factors to manifesting your wants, needs and desires. So whatever your subconscious mind - on autopilot - is projecting now to the present, will become your future over and over again.

And this is how they’ve got the whole of humanity by their ba££$!

By indoctrinating all of us with bu££$hit, which works perfectly well because all is a mind’s creation. And even bu££$hit on this plane is a reality, everything is. All is possible here in this illusion, this condensed consciousness, this creation. So again I will ask you as I did in part one: What is a truth and what is a lie? What is right and what is wrong?

NOTHING! It’s all a creation. It’s what you BELIEVE in which manifests here for you as a limited indoctrinated reality and is a creation and nothing else.

This bring me to a subject that was restarted on Avalon yesterday; eleven pages long by our Pie'n'eal, Tony, to those that know him. This thread was started in May 2011 and was brought back up Headed “The earth does not have a consciousness”. Well it’s 14 pages long today and only some got the message or understood what our learned friend is saying.

I rang and had a chat with Tony saying here we go again, as I did participate on the first run with his thread. Tony knows that I have never been happy with the word Karma and also told him I was not happy with cause and effect, for both could not exist. So Tony with his matter of fact approach said, “yes, they don’t exist”; “it’s the belief in their existence that is a Karma”.

Well, slap, bang, wallop, my mind went as I immediately integrated that into my system of understanding as you have read above.

BLOCKS! Psychological blocks is what I have always dealt with concerning reality. Blocks will not permit you to manifest many things in your life because you have a wrong misplaced belief about them in your subconscious mind. It is the belief in what is NOT that create blocks/karma. How about that? Thank you, Tony, very much; it seems Buddhism is making sense to me now… hehehe, (that’s my dirty laugh).

So to conclude about the Earth being conscious, the answer is No. It’s not conscious, as one would put it because the earth is a consciousness. It is part of you and me, it’s a condensed consciousness, part of all that is. It’s a creation; it’s not a power unto itself. It’s not some “god” that you should revere. You don’t worship an illusion that’s a part of your consciousness!

And this Gaia crap allowing us to feast on mother’s body, it’s an illusion -- condensed consciousness -- as all creation is. Gaia worship is just some new age bu££$hit trying to separate you from your power again; forcing you to think there is something outside of yourself. It’s nonsense.

Of course you send love and gratitude as you should do to yourself and others, we are all one. We are all there is. Respect all in this illusion as you would respect yourself and others and yes that includes the earth. But to think and treat it as something more special than you, me or anything else is a false belief, and it’s karmic.

Now that we have moved on and expanded a little from part one, there are two beliefs that I want to focus on now, first, which is the law of cause and effect because it’s a nonsense.

Secondly, focusing on false beliefs as a law of karma. These two beliefs are normally linked together to mean one and the same thing. Cause and effect stands as a good example of how the mind would work here in this reality, as mind would be the cause and the effect and would manifest itself here.

Let’s begin by stating that there are no laws here in the illusion. A “cause” would mean that we are projecting a force from within ourselves to outside of ourselves, the “effect”. This cannot be because there is no here and there; there is no inside and outside of oneself. All is mind. All is one. It sounds and feels like the cause is an untouchable element trying to create a touchable element, the effect. One being mental force, the other being material. That cannot be because the mental and the material is one and the same consciousness. There are no rules, no laws, no rights, no wrongs, no truths, no lies. It is a BELIEF made manifest by mind.

I asked you before to imagine being a dot with a potentiality. I asked you to open the door in front of you and never shut it again. The way that this potentiality of source/mind would open that door is by INTENTION.

Intention is the source/mind, WILL, is the CAUSE that manifests a result as an EFFECT in an illusion in the realms of mind. It is mind consciousness, creating condensed consciousness, as our illusionary reality here on our illusionary Earth, our playground.

Karma is an event in consciousness that describes a belief in a mental construct of creation of condensed consciousness, as being real, a reality existing outside of itself. There is a price to pay for deluding yourself into believing that this reality is real. Sorrow and disappointment stand out for me first. This belief in a false reality brings many sorrowful traits that we are all infected/affected/inflicted with; hence, conditional love, anger, fear, pride, lust, apathy, grief, attachment, aversion, ego, greed, lack, wanting, needing, having, discriminating, judging, fear of death, etc.

Karma may seem to behave like a cause and effect or tit for tat. But what it does is create massive blocks in your consciousness here in this reality of condensed consciousness and that is your suffering and sorrow on this plane. If you believe that there is something outside of yourself and you believe it’s real, then that is karma; believing in a false reality. But there again, it’s good ol’ psychological blocks to me.

This list of emotional traits have a major role on your manifesting or rather non- manifesting of your reality as you see fit.

If you believe in past life-regression the only way of my understanding this phenomena would be like this: If regression is real and a hypnotist can really connect deep into the subconscious mind where your past life's memories could be stored, then your karmic/blocks/ traits would still be deep in your consciousness from your last death.

If the subconscious expands into this new life, then yes, you would bring character traits and beliefs from your past life into your rebirth. Your subconscious mind would still be hidden to you and be projecting on autopilot into your present/now. Remember there is only NOW, which means you would bring along karmic/blocks/traits that would be affecting your new life with the same old beliefs as you had before you died.

Now that we see the importance of knowing that our subconscious mind is a memory bank full of specific beliefs, it’s now time to recognize that there is also a higher/self beyond the subconscious that is the doorway of source.

The subconscious mind is a gatekeeper that you have to pass through to get to the higher/self/source for manifesting illusions in this plane. Once a belief is accepted by the subconscious mind (the gatekeeper), that belief moves on to the higher/self/source, which is made manifest as condensed consciousness on this plane for you as a reality, your reality.

Now if you put a load of garbage and disinformation into a child or an adult and it is accepted by the subconscious mind (the gatekeeper), then guess what their life/reality is going to be like? Now do you see why the first seven years of a child’s life is bombarded with false beliefs and limitations?

It’s because a false foundation will be set and accepted by the subconscious mind. It will set the false reality that there is some power or something more powerful outside of us, which is nothing more than a deluded belief, a nonsense. Now you have a like- minded slave, just as the rest of us, for life; given up for the manipulators of this reality.

The VATICAN controls all religions, Islam, Judaism, Christianity, and hundreds of other derivatives under different names of a false indoctrination, a false foundation throughout the world, a control mechanism.

The UK (City of London) is the centre of exchange for all the money in the world, a control mechanism.

The US (Washington DC) is the military might, the iron fist, the do as you’re told, a control mechanism.

The Roman Empire never ended; it just split itself into three.

Everything stems from this trinity: Bible, Religion, History, Education, Politics, Media, you name it. They control it all and have been doing so for more than ten thousand years! This is the only bloody Holy Trinity that I know!

Anyway, let’s continue. Now that we understand that the subconscious mind has had a false foundation placed in it and has accepted it and it is now projecting into your present/now, a standardized version of reality, governed and controlled by this Trinity, you may think that it’s not a problem. I'll just change my mind; I'll change my recording. OK do it.

We have all heard and seen the video “The Secret” and possibly read the book too. Another famous book , “How to make friends and influence people”, another “Think and grow rich”. There are thousands of books written on how to change your mind and become a millionaire, all great stuff, and some even gave you a way of removing old mind-sets and replace them with new ones by repetition and visualizing your goals. I will tell you that if 100% bought and read and did these exercises, more than 99.99% would fail, now why is that??

What is it that these people are not telling you? “The Secret” told you just look for what you want, as if from a catalogue. See yourself possessing it and bingo it’s yours. The success rate for this video went into millions that they sold per view or you could buy the video outright and learn the procedure. It was a success, but you will never learn of the failures that “the Secret” had in peoples’ personal lives; now that is a Secret. The only good thing that it did was to wake people up to another reality which was normally not out in the open.

What is a thought? Is it animate or inanimate? Can you touch it? Prod it? No, but you can charge it with a given image. Like a thought of love, a thought of hate, a thought of fear, a thought of happiness, a thought of sickness, a thought of death, and so on.

There is one thing that all these thoughts have in common: they each raise an EMOTION. I write a word, that word creates a thought, that thought creates a corresponding image and emotion to that word… very powerful stuff.

Now you may think, “Where does that emotion come from”? It comes from your memory bank, the subconscious. So everything that I do, think or imagine, which I would have to use as my thoughts, comes from my subconscious, emotionally charged. All images express themselves as feeling an emotion.

Thoughts are emotionally charged images in your mind. Impressing your goals as an emotionally charged image is old school in the positive thinking movement.

All thoughts stored in the subconscious mind are emotionally charged and the ones that had enough charge in them to open the gatekeepers (the subconscious) doors and pass over to the higher/self/source were made manifest in this reality.

This same system is used for magic, white or black, it does not matter. There are no rules here, only self imposed rules. Sex-emotion is used by people, torture-emotion to others. Rituals and murders are used by people to raise great emotions. Children screaming, snuff parties, etc. So who or what would stop this nonsense? Well nobody I know. And what about the moral issues? All morals are self imposed. So who is checking that these criminal and immoral acts are punishable and will be imposed on these people? It has to be you, for there is no one else.

If our “worldly consensus” is to let a bunch idiots run our affairs here in this reality on our behalf, so be it. Well I mean 99% of us against 1% of them; well, it’s not even a match, is it??

So what’s the problem with us all. An emotionally charged fear of death or fear of extinction very deeply impressed into our subconscious? If they knew that hundreds of thousands of people were willing to return back to a dots, to get someone that has returned thousands of people back to dots unnecessarily and painfully, we would be living in a very different world my friends. At this moment in time, you can’t fight these people. One has to literally turn ones back on them and not conform to anything and allow them to crash. They have the resources and I’m sure they will survive longer than us, but they can’t survive this forever.

So, emotions seem to play a very important part in our reality through the charged banks of our subconscious mind. So how did it get there? We know we have thoughts and these thoughts carry emotions in images, but of what? That would be your BELIEFS.

So what is a belief? It’s a figment of your imagination made manifest. When was the first time you heard about sickness? Well now you got it. its been well implanted

When was the first time that you heard about the devil? Well now you got it. he will haunt you now.

When was the first time you heard about the son of god? Well you got it. And now you are answerable to that corpse nailed to beams of wood, err, good luck.

When was the first time you heard that you were a failure? Well you got it.

When was the first time that you heard that you have to have money to live? Well you got it. And so on and so on. An inexhaustible list. Well I hope you get what I am saying.

All these beliefs are by now deeply seated in your subconscious mind, charged with varying levels of emotion.

Now we come to the crux of a very great problem. When you try to change a belief by replacing it with another, the subconscious mind will fight you tooth and nails. It will reject your new belief if it’s to replace a similar one that’s already recorded in the memory bank. So you can repeat and repeat that new belief until you turn blue in the face; you can visualize and visualize until you fall asleep. You will still meet with resistance from your memory bank.

So what is the problem with removing an old belief and replacing it with a new one??

Part one tells you the answer. You are not only dealing with a belief but also an emotion attached to that belief (remember the thought and emotion it triggers). All beliefs have different and varying degrees of emotion attached to them, which means, some are easy to get rid of but many are not.

I have searched for the best way to remove these emotional blocks, that’s what they are called these days. I found mostly all methods to be a hit an’ miss affair. You’re dealing with a subconscious mind, sub means under, hidden consciousness. So you don’t know what to concentrate on or exactly which bit is the obstacle. So I am only interested in a full removal method. EFT (Emotional Freedom Techniques) comes close to this approach of releasing these emotions tied to events or beliefs.

Many people have had great results with it but because we are dealing with full depth removal of psychological blocks that would restrict manifesting of what you want in your reality. I found that the RELEASE METHOD will take you all the way and beyond if you wish. I found this system after 15 years of searching for myself as the best solution to this problem.

Now the way to release is in part one and I don’t wish to rewrite it here as I have gone too far already.

Now to manifesting. I will first point out one of the biggest misconceptions that we all possess. Let’s take for instance that you want a car. What is the first thing that we do? We look at our bank balance and make a decision on that. If we haven’t the money we start to rummage through our budget to see if we can extract enough money to save for one or buy one on credit. If you haven’t enough money you drop it and forget about it or find a way to start saving for a year or two to put a deposit.

Now I will ask you again, is it a car that you want or is it the money?

You say it’s a car. THEN WHY ARE YOU FOCUSING ON THE MONEY??

Boy, have they got us over a barrel. We are so sold on this money crap that we believe that we cannot move nor do anything without it. It’s nonsense!

The car that you want and anything and everything in this plane is an illusion, a creation. If it’s in your consciousness it’s already yours. That car is you and you are that car. That car is a product of mind and so are you. It’s all condensed consciousness. The only obstacle between the car and you is a misconstrued belief. That belief is a block, karma, because you think it’s outside of yourself, separate, a different reality from yourself that you will buy with another figment of your imagination: Money. I hope this is understood clearly.

The release method is very simple as you can see in part one. It’s not a big deal. But if used properly to remove purposely implanted bu££$it beliefs, you will attract that car to yourself by many and every means possible. Yes, even with money. This is something that you must allow. You must never interfere in how it is going to come to you, never. You don’t interfere with mind for mind can create a further obstacle between you and that car. Leave it alone and allow.

All you have to do is to clear yourself with all the emotional garbage between you and the object of your desire and allow it to come to you without interference. You can have anything and everything that’s in your consciousness. If it hasn’t yet been invented then it’s not in your consciousness, it has no existence yet. So how are you going to attract that unless you invent it yourself, then it will be in all creation’s consciousness.

I'll tell you what, why don’t we invent a germ? Now everybody’s got them. Why don’t we invent fear? That’s a good one. Why don’t we invent the dark side? Wow, that’s dark. Mix that up with a devil, that’s even better. Why don’t we invent an enemy? That should add a bit spice into our lives. And I could go on and on with this garbage that we have placed into our peaceful loving nature of our consciousness.

We start to clear emotional garbage from five different aspects to the problem of a belief/thought.


The first one is ATTACHMENT, attachment to what? You may be thinking attachment to things, to an illusion, be it animate or inanimate. It’s all part of your consciousness, (remember all is one). There is nothing outside of you. Whatever is in your consciousness is part of you and you are part of it. You don’t have to crave and hold onto it with great emotion of losing something that is already yours, a false presumption that something is outside of you and that you could lose it.
Your dear life does not depend on any of it because all things that you attach yourself too are an illusion, and so is your life. Your attachment to anything is a false reality… a big block.


The second one, AVERSION. Aversion to what? All is one and one is all in your consciousness. Having an aversion to anything is like a judgement, an opinion of creation in our consciousness, repelling of things that you don’t like. We share in this illusion this consciousness, we all contribute one way or another be it good or bad. It’s just one’s perspective and view of creation, which we all play a part in, there is nothing that is bad and there is nothing that is good, it just is.

Our shock and dismay at what’s going on in this world of murder and starvation of millions of people I agree is very bad. But we should have put this right a few thousand years ago and never allowed this to happen in the first place. It’s a creation in our consciousness; it’s an illusion. Your aversion to anything is a false reality, a big block.


The third one, APPROVAL, approval of what? Doing, pretending, buying stuff so as to get approval from others and wanting them to think of what a great and fantastic guy you are. Working very hard not to mess-up so that you always have the highest approval. Living in the biggest house, driving the biggest car, it’s a mind thing, a pride thing, it’s being a very highly educated thing, with b.s., bbc, phd, hiv after your name thing. I have to have better than everyone else thing, it’s having to impress everyone thing. Well in consciousness there seems to be a block concerning someone who thinks they are better than any other in this creation, be it race or creed. All are equal, all are one and the same consciousness and there is no separateness of mind or consciousness its a false reality, a big block


The fourth one, CONTROL, control of what? Controlling events especially of others. There is a difference in helping or controlling, doing things so that one has control, buying things for people so as to control, creating events with a view to control, doing anything with a view of controlling.

Remember when I said that you should allow and never interfere in the goings on of how or where these things will come from to you? Your interference, which is mind, will put a screwdriver in the works. Obviously we help with love and compassion to the best of our ability, but you don’t take over somebody’s life. You give them a plough but you don’t plough the fields for them. You give them a fishing rod but you don’t fish for them, a big difference. Anything else is a false reality, a big block.


The fifth one, SECURITY, SAFETY, SURVIVAL, “do what?” Well these three come under the same headings so let’s call them SSS. Precisely which one of these do to you think you can insure yourself against in your mind? Where do you think that insurance will make a difference in consciousness? This is an illusion. What protection do you envisage in a condensed consciousness??

Why does the subconscious mind reject this as a false reality?? What do you think that this rejection means? It can only mean fear.

The subconscious will not allow you to amass anything to do with one, two, or all three of these SSS’s on this plane. Yeah, sure you can leave money for your family when you die via an insurance policy. Yeah, you can dig a hole one mile deep protecting yourself against a catastrophe and survive, but how do you separate the emotions of each one of these that the subconscious would understand and differentiate between safety, survival, or security? The emotions that the three SSS emit are indistinguishable. You have to dump it all to clear yourself. Big block, big time.

DO EVERYTHING AS AN INTENTION ONLY. NO NEEDING, NO WANTING.

So we start.
Sit down and relax, have an image of what you want in your mind. Visualize being and enjoying this image as NOW, there is only now remember.
If it’s a car, sit in it and enjoy everything about it, take your time. Now that you have formed a good feeling and images of what you want, bring up each of the FIVE emotions, starting with ATTACHMENT.
Do you feel that you really, really want it? Open the door between your rib and stomach and gently, no pushing. That emotion does not belong there it will leave you if you give it a chance. So gently ALLOW the coloured smoke that you have chosen to gently leave through your door, you can help it along, but don’t push. Purse you lips as you would gently cooling of a hot cup of soup, gently assisting that smoke to come out of the door. Just as you are running out of breath, just give a little gentle push, your last little gentle effort, then gently stop.

So what are we doing here? We are checking of how much of an attachment you have to this car that you want, any raising emotions about your need and want will bring up that emotion and you open the door and release it. Keep doing this until you feel that there is no emotion left to come up. You do this with all FIVE emotions, all explained above what they mean. Go through each one and release until you feel none of them are bringing anything up. You do this three times a day or more if you want, always gently, no rush, always allowing.

So what are we trying to achieve? You do this until you feel absolutely no emotions about owning that car. You will have no emotion left in any of the five blocks. You will come to a stage where you don’t give a $hit about owning this car. You have cleared yourself with the FIVE emotions on this car at least 3 times a day. You visualize the car and clear yourself with each emotion, keep visualizing even if you don’t give a $hit and ALLOW IT TO COME.


INTENTION IS A DECISION.
THIS IS WHAT I AM HAVING, THIS IS WHAT I WANT.

WITHOUT WANTING AND NEEDING.

RELEASE ALL WANTING AND NEEDING.
IT’S A DECISION TO AN INTENTION.
DECIDE AND DO WITHOUT WANTING AND NEEDING.
WANTING AND NEEDING IS NOT A DECISION, IT’S A FEELING OF NOT HAVING, IT’S A STATEMENT OF LACK.
LACK = WANTING AND NEEDING
WANTING AND NEEDING = LACK

MAKE A DECISION AND RELEASE ALL WANTING, NEEDING, AND LACK
REMOVE BY RELEASING ALL OBSTACLES THAT MIND CREATES

REMOVE MIND FROM ANY EQUATION


ATTACHMENT

AVERSION

APPROVAL

CONTROL

SECURITY
SAFETY
SURVIVAL

LET GO OF WHAT YOU WANT TO PREVENT
THEN YOU WILL NOT HOLD IT IN MIND

THE MIND IS ONLY CREATIVE
AND WILL CREATE WHAT YOU HOLD IN MIND

THE MIND WILL CREATE ESCAPES BY CREATING DIVERSIONS. BY WATCHING TV, HOBBIES, READING, AND MANY OTHER THINGS RATHER THEN TO DO INTENTIONS.

IT WILL STEER YOU AWAY FROM INTENTIONS. THESE ARE THE BLOCKS, THE SABOTEUR OF YOUR INTENTIONS.

IT WILL CREATE ANY ESCAPE POSSIBLE TO REMOVE YOU FROM YOUR INTENTIONS. ANYTHING OTHER THAN FOCUSING ON YOUR INTENTIONS IS AN ESCAPE CREATED BY MIND.

[Sebastion]

Roman:

That is one of the most outstanding essays I have ever read in my life, truly eloquently written!

[greybeard]

Nassim Haramein linking spirituality and science.
Without meaning to, humans tend to limit God and im sure He laughs at our misunderstanding.
Anyway its an interesting video if slightly of topic.
Towards the end all becomes clear.

Chris


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ro3wQX-hPk&feature=related

[greybeard]

Bill Ryan Introduces Nassiem at The awake and aware conference.
The talk is We are all One.

I beg your indulgence Red as its not specific to the Bible.

Well worth the time it takes to view.

Chris


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1JDMToJDe0&feature=related

[Kindred]

So here goes, there is no such thing as truth, it cannot be, ones belief is not a truth, ones faith is not a truth, even thoughts are not truth, what one sees is not a truth, what one feels is not a truth.

Mind creates what you believe, what you have created with mind is not a truth, its a belief.

The hidden gift of humanity is belief, for whatever you believe in, you will create, but its not a truth, it a belief, a forever changing function of creation by mind, by your beliefs, but its not the truth it a belief.

The system is designed to unify all of humanity’s beliefs for the system manipulation.

The system proposes that they are the holders of truth, they are in fact holders of your belief, which is not a truth, but we believe them, therefore we are bound to them by a belief, which is not the truth.


It’s all nonsense part 1

Will you see why?

Through quantum physics we understand that all is wave, until we bring consciousness into focus, then all becomes particles according to one’s mind set. You will materialize all according to your beliefs. Particles and materialization is the gross low frequency end of a high frequency consciousness.

There is consciousness we all share and we are this consciousness. Therefore we are all born of this consciousness. All life and objects are condensed particles of consciousness. Reality is a state of condensed consciousness and that’s why we call it an illusion. Your brain, your body, this earth and this universe is all part of the illusion, condensed consciousness.

Your whole experience of life is in the brain, converting consciousness to particles. It’s all in the brain and it’s all mental because all your experiences are through your senses and your senses are interpreted only by your brain. This consciousness is configured by the brain and all results are by your beliefs, therefore, you can only do and see all according to your beliefs.



ROMANWKT; I only wish to differ on your points in red, above. I'll suggest that it is Not 'the brain' that consciousness springs from. Rather, it is the bio-photonic & electromagnetic fields that are formed by both our Heart's electromagnetic field, and DNA's photo-bionic emissions and absorbance, both of which are in Resonance with the background Cosmic Field (God/Source/Spirit). It is this combination of multiple fields (and more) that forms the 'space' in which Our Individual Consciousness Exists.

It is in these numerous 'fields' in which our 'soul' is Embraced, and through which we Experience our 'realities'. Our 'physical bodies' are (one of) the 'lowest' vibrations of existence, but are integral to the Base Experiences through which our Spirits Learn the 'basics' of Spiritual Evolution. I'll suggest that there are an Infinite number of 'realities' through which we can develop our Spiritual Evolution, but, Ultimately, We Are All One.

In Unity, Peace and Love

[danceblackcatdance]

Awesome. Thanks Roman :)

[observer]

Click-on forwarding arrow to see content of comment.


Click-on forwarding arrow to see content of comment.

To me, this is all sounding very much like Barbara Marciniak with her "New Age" Pleiadian message. One religious dogma is no more enlightening than another.

These Pleiadians have been manipulating the consciousness of Humanity since the Anunnaki created the Human species somewhere around 250,000 years ago.

Prophets, seers, oracles, channelers, remote viewers - the list is endless.... they are all the same thing - semantics.

Any hyperdimensional entity seeking to influence your thoughts through telepathic communication has to be of suspect. Only open communication is honest and believable.

If one truly believes that each of our thoughts individually create our own reality, than enlighten me as to exactly what thoughts that Palestinian woman.... or that Afghanistan mother.... or that Nagasaki grandmother, sitting in the bombed-out ruins of her home.... holding the lifeless body of an infant child.... what possible thoughts could she have been having to create that particular reality for herself???

This third density reality is a locked-down prison. A soul-farm reality and the hyperdimensional controllers of this reality are capable of feeding us anything to keep us from realizing that. The evidence to this is abundant.

By focusing on nothing, you see nothing. One does not see the world. This is exactly the state of hypnosis these hyperdimensional entities want the Mass of Humanity to exist within.

Relief from this circumstance will only come when one realizes the mechanism that holds us here. Follow the evidence.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6ix3HaSt8U&feature=watch_response
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6ix3HaSt8U&feature=watch_response

They are very clever at what they do....

[observer]

[....snip]

It is in these numerous 'fields' in which our 'soul' is Embraced, and through which we Experience our 'realities'. Our 'physical bodies' are (one of) the 'lowest' vibrations of existence, but are integral to the Base Experiences through which our Spirits Learn the 'basics' of Spiritual Evolution. I'll suggest that there are an Infinite number of 'realities' through which we can develop our Spiritual Evolution, but, Ultimately, We Are All One.

In Unity, Peace and Love

I agree with this portion of your analysis, Kindred.

My input to this would be, only by throwing-out everything we think we understand can we see through the smoke-and-mirrors.... it's all a magicians trick. Everything we think we understand is a lie.

An understanding of cutting-edge plasma physics (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4773590301316220374&ei=kPM1SfiSDIruqAKNrdWkCQ&q=thunderbolts+of+the+gods+#)will allow one to realize how all of our souls combined are a part of an unified electrical field. We are all one, and it is only through this realization that we will each, individually be freed from this density.

[danceblackcatdance]

Reality / life is intrinsically meaningless, it's down to the individual how it's interpreted...? The Palestinian woman / Afghanistan mother / Nagasaki grandmother can't change physical reality with their thoughts anymore than I can grow a third leg, but they can change the way they feel about their reality (no matter how challenging or unfair it seems) with their thinking... Can always learn / grow from what life manifests... Bigger the hardship the more potential value of the lesson... Not a justification for injustice, just saying spiritual evolution isn't necessarily a walk in the park...

:)

[gripreaper]

The "One True God" of Yeshua ben Joseph, the God of Unconditional Love, IS NOT Yahweh.

Put all your faith in Yahweh, any you will end-up with the essence of your soul eaten by this Demigod.

They are very clever at what they do....

Thanks observer for coming right out and saying it. Your research in truth is impeccable and breaking through the shell of the dragon egg does take inertia. We are them and they are us. Although the Dragon mother has no heart and is not very nurturing, her two sons from different fathers, Enlil and Enki, are still warring against each other and still can't decide whether to kill their mother, or each other.

Those of us descendants can choose to walk away from that game. We can choose to embrace the heritage of the indigenous, which was held as the sacred truths by the Essenes, as taught by Yeshua against yahweh and the Archon's, handed down by the Druids from Atlantis, and summarily murdered and stamped out by the nefarious elite controllers, by abject torture, full genocide, and dogmatic religious mandates.

The tearing down of the castle walls and exposing the emperor without any clothes on, who has cowardly hidden and been shrouded behind the veil of truth, masquerading as the savior and propagating lies through religious dogma and the bible, is finally being exposed and outed.

Thanks to all who are willing to be open to and expose the ancient truths and are not willing to buy the lie anymore.

[edit] Thanks Chris. Love Nassim and have followed his work and listened to his video's. Very well done for those steeped in academia as well as the layman.

[edit] David Icke is sure coming into his own lately too, with less focus on "Hey, look at the bad guys and how terrible they are" to "Hey, the power and the answer is inside and let's create the new paradigm we want to see"

[observer]

Bill Ryan Introduces Nassiem at The awake and aware conference.
The talk is We are all One.

I beg your indulgence Red as its not specific to the Bible.

Well worth the time it takes to view.

Chris


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1JDMToJDe0&feature=related

Chris,

I've long been a supporter of Nassim's message, and I do believe the fact that we are all one in this particular third density is quite relevant to what I've been saying about Yeshua's message throughout this thread. It would do everyone supporting the validly of the Bible to look at some fresh approaches to our understanding.

My only caveat of Nassim's physics is regarding his limited understanding of a singularity. I'm certain this is due to his physics training. Quantum and Einsteinian Physics are a function of the Oxford Template of Compartmentalized Learning.

I believe Nassim is correct when he says there is a singularity at the center of all structure in space. Nassim has a fresh approach to this physics, however he is still limited by his understanding of what a black hole represents in contemporary physics.

Eventually, all of the sciences will realize that a singularity/black hole is nothing more than an electromagnetic dipole pulling energy out of the active vacuum.

Thank you for posting Nassim's lecture here in this thread at this juncture in the discussion. It is most relevant.

[RedeZra]

dude, i suggested doing some research...




but i did

your copy paste article claims the crusaders gave the names to the localities and places there which are mentioned in the scriptures


so i did some research

the Madaba Mosaic Map (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madaba_Map) is part of a floor mosaic in the early Byzantine church of Saint George at Madaba Jordan dated to the 6th century


so you see it is you who bring faith while i provide fact

[RedeZra]

In a Dead Sea Scroll fragment translated by the Hebrew scholar, Robert Eisenman, there is a description of a watcher called Belial (Bel?), who is described as the Prince of Darkness and the King of Evil. He is said to be terrifying in his appearance - like a serpent with a visage like a viper. One of the main angelic groups in Hebrew lore is the Seraphim or ‘fiery serpents’ and the Watchers are very much connected to the description of serpents. In the Persian teachings they also talk of a being they describe as ‘the old serpent having two feet’, just as the Book of Enoch features walking serpents.


that would be fragment 4Q535

or the Testament of Amram (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amram)

which speaks of a division in the Heavenly realm

where some Watchers who are angels fell



I saw Watchers in my vision, the dream-vision. Two men were fighting over me...holding a great contest over me. I asked them, 'Who are you, that you are thus empowered over me?'

They answered, 'We have been empowered and rule over all mankind.' They said to me, 'Which of us do you choose to rule you?'

I raised my eyes and looked. One of them was terrifying in his appearance, like a serpent, his cloak, many-colored yet very dark....And I looked again, and in his appearance, his visage like a viper....

I replied to him, 'This Watcher, who is he?' He answered, 'This Watcher...his three names are Belial and Prince of Darkness and King of Evil.'

I said (to the other Watcher), 'My lord, what dominion (have you?)' He answered, 'You saw (the viper), and he is empowered over all Darkness, while I (am empowered over all Light.)...My three names are Michael, Prince of Light and King of Righteousness.


both Belial and Michael are Watchers or angels

one is good and one is evil






And, I should emphasize, the birth of the human-Watcher child in the Book of Enoch is that of Noah. If this be so, Noah is, in fact, a reptile-human hybrid and many peoples have sought to claim descendence from Noah -descendence from the reptilian Watchers and Anunnaki. In Hebrew myth, the Nefilim are described as awwim which means devastators or serpents.

In the Dead Sea Scrolls (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/scrolls_deadsea/scrolls_deadsea.htm), Noah is described as looking like “the children of the (fallen) angels of heaven” whose “conception was (due) to the Watchers (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vida_alien/alien_watchers.htm)... and to the Nefilim”.


that would be from the Genesis Apocryphon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genesis_Apocryphon)

where Lamech is afraid that his son Noah is the result of an angel having an affair with his wife

which would make Noah a Nephilim or an angelic human hybrid



And his body was white as snow and red as a rose; the hair of his head as white as wool and his demdema (`long curly hair') beautiful; and as for his eyes, when he opened them the whole house glowed like the sun ...


but Bath-Enosh the wife of Lamech assures him that he is the father of Noah



My heart was then greatly troubled within me, and when Bath-Enosh, my wife, saw that my countenance had changed, then she mastered her anger and spoke to me saying, "O my lord, O my brother, remember my pleasure! I swear to you by the Holy Great One, the King of the heavens, that this seed is yours and that this conception is from you. This fruit was planted by you and by no stranger or Watcher or son of Heaven. Why is your countenance thus changed and dismayed, and why is your spirit thus distressed? I speak to you truthfully.


we know from the Holy bible that this hybridisation of humanity by angels was the reason God flooded the whole world

but the Nephilim problem rose again after the Flood

and so humanity has probably some angelic gene pool and blood






What I wrote in comment #973 is corroborating evidence to what Icke is saying in this (above) quote. The 'alleged' Moses of the Old Testament worshiped a reptile. His alter in the Tabernacle was the Nehushtan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nehushtan). That reptile was known (in the Old Testament) as Yahweh.


no bro

the Nehushtan or brass snake on a pole

healed the Israelites bitten by snakes

just by looking at it


same as we today

are healed by just coming to the Cross of Christ


this is possible because the Creator wants it this way






Once one understands the Bible was a expert con-job, wherein the life and teachings of the entity Yeshua ben Joseph was co-opted into the false dogma of Trinity Christianity, by those same archons that Yeshua was trying to warn us about, it becomes abundantly clear whom Yeshua was speaking of when he said to the Pharisees in John 8:44:

"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."





the Holy bible is utter truth

and you are in danger of hell fire

[RedeZra]

if we worship and serve strange gods

then we have been deceived


for there is no other God

than the Great I AM

which in Hebrew is Yahweh


Yahweh is Salvation

or the Savior of the soul

which in Hebrew is Yahushua


Jesus Christ


http://www.jesuspaintings.com/pictures/the-crucifixion.jpg


God died for you

get over it


repent and return

[observer]

[....snip]

and you are in danger of hell fire

Nowhere, in any comment I've made to you, Sir, have I pronounced a curse on you.

Your are so demented into your dogma, this now is the second time you have pronounced some sort of damnation on me. I am only showing you evidence to support the position of many individuals living on this planet within this Biblical nightmare.

You are incapable of holding a rational debate without resorting to Hell-fire, and damnation.

....and, this is your interpretation of the Love taught by Yeshua ben Joseph???


This is an abomination to the spirit of this forum.

I'm done with you, RedeZra....

[GCS1103]

[....snip]

and you are in danger of hell fire

Nowhere, in any comment I've made to you, Sir, have I pronounced a curse on you.

Your are so demented into your dogma, this now is the second time you have pronounced some sort of damnation on me. I am only showing you evidence to support the position of many individuals living on this planet within this Biblical nightmare.

You are incapable of holding a rational debate without resorting to Hell-fire, and damnation.

....and, this is your interpretation of the Love taught by Yeshua ben Joseph???


This is an abomination to the spirit of this forum.

I'm done with you, RedeZra....

Observer-

Don't walk away from the thread. We all enjoy reading your posts and what you bring here. Even though my beliefs are different than yours, I still look forward to what you have to say and the information you give us. Spirituality is a touchy subject but we should all be willing to respect each other's views, and the time everyone puts into this thread.

I'm going to read a new book recommended by Crested-Duck and I gave him one to read too. That's how we expand our knowledge. I like Modwiz and Greybeard's presence here. They don't have to agree with what's posted but they come here with an open mind and a good attitude. A good attitude is something we should all try to have.

[danceblackcatdance]

but i did

your copy paste article claims the crusaders gave the names to the localities and places there which are mentioned in the scriptures


so i did some research

the Madaba Mosaic Map (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madaba_Map) is part of a floor mosaic in the early Byzantine church of Saint George at Madaba Jordan dated to the 6th century


so you see it is you who bring faith while i provide fact

apologies, i thought research involves constant digging / lets explore the rabbit hole... not taking 3 paragraphs out of context and trying to make them show what you already believe...

:becky:

i understood the article claims 'the crusaders gave the names to the localities and places in the bible', means they chose the names to be included.. doesn't state that the crusaders created the place known as 'Aenon' as featured in the map, it proposes the origin of the name, and *if* Ireland (part of Atlantis?) is a possible root of civilisation, then thats where it comes from.....

regardless, i never proclaimed this essay to be 'gospel' just another facet of what really might have gone on... am open minded enough to keep looking....

why not check out to the Michael Tsarion videos posted, it doesn't even require much to listen...?

:fear:

however, while we're here.. my personal opinion is that the bible is a *MONUMENTAL* work of fiction and another invisible prison... its frustrating that people have been duped for so long...:doh:

as Kindred said "ALL Corrupt systems Will Collapse..."

the sooner the better, this has gone on too long!

i'm outa here too, i'm sure y'all be pleased :)

[RedeZra]

[....snip]

and you are in danger of hell fire

Nowhere, in any comment I've made to you, Sir, have I pronounced a curse on you.

Your are so demented into your dogma, this now is the second time you have pronounced some sort of damnation on me. I am only showing you evidence to support the position of many individuals living on this planet within this Biblical nightmare.

You are incapable of holding a rational debate without resorting to Hell-fire, and damnation.

....and, this is your interpretation of the Love taught by Yeshua ben Joseph???


This is an abomination to the spirit of this forum.

I'm done with you, RedeZra....


it's not a curse bro but a brotherly warning


you're trying to outwit the devil but as you say he is very clever

as he has been lying to humanity since the beginning


Jesus warned us about hell and the devil

but you call Him a failed bridge

when He is the only bridge across hell


if you took the time to look at some of the testimonies

from ordinary human beings about the helping healing saving grace of Jesus

then you would not doubt Him nor His words


it's not possible to outwit the devil

who is in charge and control of this world system


do you base your believes on David Icke ?






demon removed by Jesus


dMTSxGzG-G8

[Kindred]

the Holy bible is utter truth

and you are in danger of hell fire

To observer, and anyone else who feels that they wish to bring an alternative view to RedeZra, these two sentences should be a warning that you are dealing with a 'hellfire & brimstone' died-in-the-wool "Bible thumper". Quite possibly a Southern Baptist and/or Born Again Christian.

There's Nothing wrong with these views or belief system. It does make one wonder Why he's on a forum like this, that (presumably) attracts people with Open Minds who are Curious about this amazing world and universe we inhabit.

I strongly suspect he is on this forum strictly to 'save us all', for that is His mission.

However, do not mistake... he has No desire to truly Listen to any argument you make regarding any other interpretation of the Bible, whether archeologically, historically, genetically or sociologically substantiated or not. He is completely convinced of the authenticity of said book, and No One will make him think otherwise. THAT is His prerogative, and it is His thread.

I only wish he was 'up front' about this in the Thread Heading. the Bible - The Only Truth I Believe, and Don't tell me otherwise!

As for me, I see what he's doing, and won't bother with trying to 'enlighten him', as it's just a waste of time. As long as this thread keeps going (and I'm certain RedeZra will do quite a job of it), people looking for alternative views of the Bible will end up hitting the RedeZra 'Wall'. They'll try their utmost to 'convince' him of an alternative viewpoint, only to hit His Wall time and time again. Again... that's His prerogative.

The only personal 'observation' I will make:

I Do Not Believe in a Wrathful and Vengeful God who wishes 'his' Children to Suffer in Eternal Damnation and chooses to Frighten them into Compliance.

I Do Believe in a God of Unconditional Love who only wishes that it's Children have Free Will to do Everything they wish, and learn All that they can, and will Learn, Through Time via an increasing Spiritual Enlightenment, that the Proper Path For All Beings is through Love, Peace, Acceptance, and Kindness to Everyone and Everything.

Oh... and there is NO 'hell'... Only that which humanity makes for itself.

In Unity, Peace and Love

[RedeZra]

the Holy bible is utter truth

and you are in danger of hell fire


However, do not mistake... he has No desire to truly Listen to any argument you make regarding any other interpretation of the Bible, whether archeologically, historically, genetically or sociologically substantiated or not. He is completely convinced of the authenticity of said book, and No One will make him think otherwise. THAT is His prerogative, and it is His thread.



but i do listen and debate

and provide facts and artifacts that back up the Bible


it's not easy as the ptb seeks to censor and suppress

anything that might validate this Holy book


and who do you think the ptb take their orders from ?

the very chief adversary whom Jesus warned us about


the father of lies who is full of vain deceit and empty promises

who concoct a thousand theories in the hope that we will swallow one of them






I Do Not Believe in a Wrathful and Vengeful God who wishes 'his' Children to Suffer in Eternal Damnation and chooses to Frighten them into Compliance.



neither do i

as hell is a place for the devil and his angels


but God so loved the world

that He pinned our sins to His heart


so nobody needs to go to hell


but when we reject the Heart of God

and transgress His laws


then Heaven is out of the question

and the other option is hell


or you can hope for reincarnation

which i call wishful thinking






Testimony of Heaven - Eva Gegeny


pp0Y6f6dsqs

[heyokah]

the Holy bible is utter truth

and you are in danger of hell fire

To observer, and anyone else who feels that they wish to bring an alternative view to RedeZra, these two sentences should be a warning that you are dealing with a 'hellfire & brimstone' died-in-the-wool "Bible thumper". Quite possibly a Southern Baptist and/or Born Again Christian.

There's Nothing wrong with these views or belief system. It does make one wonder Why he's on a forum like this, that (presumably) attracts people with Open Minds who are Curious about this amazing world and universe we inhabit.

I strongly suspect he is on this forum strictly to 'save us all', for that is His mission.

However, do not mistake... he has No desire to truly Listen to any argument you make regarding any other interpretation of the Bible, whether archeologically, historically, genetically or sociologically substantiated or not. He is completely convinced of the authenticity of said book, and No One will make him think otherwise. THAT is His prerogative, and it is His thread.

I only wish he was 'up front' about this in the Thread Heading. the Bible - The Only Truth I Believe, and Don't tell me otherwise!

As for me, I see what he's doing, and won't bother with trying to 'enlighten him', as it's just a waste of time. As long as this thread keeps going (and I'm certain RedeZra will do quite a job of it), people looking for alternative views of the Bible will end up hitting the RedeZra 'wall'. They'll try their utmost to 'convince' him of an alternative viewpoint, only to hit His wall time and time again. Again... that's His prerogative.

The only personal 'observation' I will make:

I Do Not Believe in a Wrathful and Vengeful God who wishes 'his' Children to Suffer in Eternal Damnation and chooses to Frighten them into Compliance.

I Do Believe in a God of Unconditional Love who only wishes that it's Children have Free Will to do Everything they wish, and learn All that they can, and will Learn, Through Time via an increasing Spiritual Enlightenment, that the Proper Path For All Beings is through Love, Peace, Acceptance, and Kindness to Everyone and Everything.

Oh... and there is NO 'hell'... Only that which humanity makes for itself.

In Unity, Peace and Love

I wish I would have and I could have written this, were I a native speaker.... and a better writer.
....and you are so right when you say : Oh... and there is NO 'hell'... Only that which humanity makes for itself.

Thank you Kindred


Aho Mitakuye Oyasin….all my relations.
I honor you in this circle of life with me today.
I am grateful for this opportunity to acknowledge you in this prayer….

****

"To the Creator, for the ultimate gift of life, I thank you.

To the mineral nation that has built and maintained my bones and all foundations of life experience, I thank you.

To the plant nation that sustains my organs and body and gives me healing herbs for sickness, I thank you.

To the animal nation that feeds me from your own flesh and offers your loyal companionship in this walk of life, I thank you.

To the human nation that shares my path as a soul upon the sacred wheel of Earthly life, I thank you.

To the Spirit nation that guides me invisibly through the ups and downs of life and for carrying the torch of light through the Ages. I thank you.

To the Four Winds of Change and Growth, I thank you.

You are all my relations, my relatives, without whom I would not live.
We are in the circle of life together, co-existing, interdependent, co-creating our destiny.
One, not more important than the other.
One nation evolving from the other and yet each dependent upon the one above and the one below.
All of us a part of the Great Mystery.

Thank you for this Life."

****

[update]

To honor Kindred's reguest:

Mitakuye Oyasin (All Are Related) is a traditional Lakota Sioux prayer, with its opening phrase used as a refrain in many Lakota prayers and songs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitakuye_Oyasin

[danceblackcatdance]

Thanks To all those not bible thumping.. it was worth participating here for a short time just to hear your perspectives... I don't believe Jesus would be that thrilled with the subsequent holy wars and genocides perpetrated in his name....

Will leave with another Bill Hicks gem... What a dude... Bye :)

Jim_HBj7Bdk

[Kindred]

I wish I would have and I could have written this, were I a native speaker.... and a better writer.
....and you are so right when you say : Oh... and there is NO 'hell'... Only that which humanity makes for itself.

Thank you Kindred


Aho Mitakuye Oyasin….all my relations.
I honor you in this circle of life with me today.
I am grateful for this opportunity to acknowledge you in this prayer….

****

"To the Creator, for the ultimate gift of life, I thank you.

To the mineral nation that has built and maintained my bones and all foundations of life experience, I thank you.

To the plant nation that sustains my organs and body and gives me healing herbs for sickness, I thank you.

To the animal nation that feeds me from your own flesh and offers your loyal companionship in this walk of life, I thank you.

To the human nation that shares my path as a soul upon the sacred wheel of Earthly life, I thank you.

To the Spirit nation that guides me invisibly through the ups and downs of life and for carrying the torch of light through the Ages. I thank you.

To the Four Winds of Change and Growth, I thank you.

You are all my relations, my relatives, without whom I would not live.
We are in the circle of life together, co-existing, interdependent, co-creating our destiny.
One, not more important than the other.
One nation evolving from the other and yet each dependent upon the one above and the one below.
All of us a part of the Great Mystery.

Thank you for this Life."

****

heyokah THAT is a Beautiful invocation! I'm going to copy and save it for it's Beauty and Relevance.

If you would be so kind, please tell us where / what culture created this Gorgeous Gem. I could assume it was 'Native American', but won't be so presumptuous.

Thank You!

In Unity, Peace and Love

[Kindred]

:peep:



the Holy bible is utter truth

and you are in danger of hell fire


but i do listen and debate

and provide facts and artifacts that back up the Bible

[snip...]

as hell is a place for the devil and his angels


but God so loved the world

that He pinned our sins to His heart


so nobody needs to go to hell


but when we reject the Heart of God

and transgress His laws


then Heaven is out of the question

and the other option is hell

or you can hope for reincarnation

which i call wishful thinking



ANOTHER wall... :frusty:

RedeZra... I'll leave you to your wall-building in the Spirit of Love.

In Unity, Peace and Love

[RedeZra]

Oh... and there is NO 'hell'... Only that which humanity makes for itself.



so why did Jesus talk a lot about hell ?

and why have so many witnessed and testified about the reality of hell ?


if your not omniscient

then this is just your personal opinion or hope

that there is no hell


contrary to the words of Jesus and first hand witnesses



do you seriously think that Jesus came to suffer our sins and die an excruciating death on the Cross

without a damn good reason ?

[Lettherebelight]

There are hellish places, but you don't stay there forever. Although it might seem like forever! LOL.

God is not that cruel.

I am not here to argue with your faith in the Bible, Red. I can see it is strong and of a noble nature. Just make sure you don't put anyone off following Jesus...

I don't think He would be very pleased about that.