Snakes in Suits: Weeding out corporate Psychopaths

[Carmody]

Harvard is full of them.

The military is infested with them.

Corporations are their biggest nest.

Then the elitist families.

Politics, thoroughly infested with them...has brought this planet to the brink of disaster...due to their cranial wiring disorders.

Religion..... is little better.

Recognize the source of the issue. This is important, as important as it gets.

Please, don't talk to me about 'the good ones'. :) Such discussion is irrelevant and distracting in the face of this issue and it's scope.

Recognize the depth of the issue, and Get On With It.

See the book: Snakes in suits (http://www.snakesinsuits.com/)

There is a recent article, as this incredibly fundamental issue is finally being brought to attention as the important and fundamental issue that it is. fixing a problem, means defining the problem FIRST. You have to recognize the source, depth and breadth of a given issue then target the core component. otherwise it simply happens again.

This is the core component. Identify--target.

Genetic damage run rampant.

If you want to fix the galactic thing, the underground base thing, the CIA thing, the fascist thing, the religious thing, the Harvard corporate graduate thug thing, the politics thing, the elitist thing, the reptilian thing, and any other issue you may feel is on the table, this is the core of it that must be addressed and excised.

Otherwise you'll just be back at the same point again. Simply as you have not addressed the core issue itself.

From the Toronto Star website.

The article: (http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorialopinion/article/1091678--weeding-out-corporate-psychopaths)


Given the state of the global economy, it might not surprise you to learn that psychopaths may be controlling the world. Not violent criminals, but corporate psychopaths who nonetheless have a genetically inherited biochemical condition that prevents them from feeling normal human empathy.

Scientific research is revealing that 21st century financial institutions with a high rate of turnover and expanding global power have become highly attractive to psychopathic individuals to enrich themselves at the expense of others, and the companies they work for.

A peer-reviewed theoretical paper titled “The Corporate Psychopaths Theory of the Global Financial Crisis” details how highly placed psychopaths in the banking sector may have nearly brought down the world economy through their own inherent inability to care about the consequences of their actions.

The author of this paper, Clive Boddy, previously of Nottingham Trent University, believes this theory would go a long way to explain how senior managers acted in ways that were disastrous for the institutions they worked for, the investors they represented and the global economy at large.

If true, this also means the astronomically expensive public bailouts will not solve the problem since many of the morally impaired individuals who caused this mess likely remain in positions of power. Worse, they may be the same people advising governments on how to resolve this crisis.

To tackle this problem, we must instead examine this rare and curious condition, and why recent corporate history may have elevated precisely the wrong type of people to positions of great power and public trust.

Unfeeling, but not insane

Psychopathy should not be confused with insanity. It is best described by Robert Hare, global expert and psychologist, as “emotional deafness” — a biochemical inability to experience normal feelings of empathy for others.

This shark-like fixation on self-interest means that psychopaths often feel a clear detachment from other people, viewing them more as sheep to be preyed upon than fellow humans to relate to. For instance, psychopaths in prison often use group therapy sessions not as a healing process, but as an opportunity to learn how to simulate normal human emotions.

Studies on twins have revealed that psychopathy shows a strong genetic signature and there remains no effective treatment. Recent research has linked the condition to physical abnormalities in the amygdala region of the brain.

Only a small subset of psychopaths become the violent criminals so often fictionalized in film. Most simply seek to blend in and conceal their difference in order to more effectively manipulate others. This frightening condition has existed throughout human history, though likely in a marginal and socially parasitic way.

While psychopaths are often portrayed by Hollywood as brilliantly clever, a hypothetical race of Hannibal Lecters would likely perish since they lack the ability to trust each other. Put another way, the human race — a relatively weak, slow, hairless tropical primate — has succeeded so spectacularly in every ecosystem on the planet not because we are so bad, but because we are so good.

Most dangerous 1 per cent

The human ability to build social capital means that people can cooperate and trust each other. We can reliably predict the behaviour of others even if we have never met them. Social capital is the glue that holds together our communities, complex societies, large institutions and the economy. The one and only superpower possessed by psychopaths is their ruthless ability to spend the social capital created by others.


Scientists believe about 1 per cent of the general population is psychopathic, meaning there are more than three million moral monsters among normal United States citizens. There is emerging evidence that this frequency increases within the upper management of modern corporations. This is not surprising since personal ruthlessness and fixation on personal power have become seen as strong assets to large publicly traded corporations (which some authors believe have also become psychopathic).

However, appearance and performance are two different things. While psychopaths are often outwardly charming and excellent self-promoters, they are also typically terrible managers, bullying co-workers and creating chaos to conceal their behaviour.

When employed in senior levels, their pathology also means they are biochemically incapable of something they are legally required to do: act in good faith on behalf of other people. The banking and corporate sector is built on the ancient principle of fiduciary duty — a legal obligation to act in the best interest of those whose money or property you are entrusted with. Asking a psychopath to do that is like recruiting a pyromaniac to be a firefighter.

The folly of mixing psychopathy and senior corporate management has been borne out by recent history. At the end of the last decade, numerous banking institutions representing hundreds of years of corporate financial stability ceased to exist within a few short months due to the reckless acts of a few individuals — none of whom has ever been charged with a crime.

And therein lies the rub. As ruthless as psychopaths are, their pathology dictates that they will ultimately act to the detriment of the organizations and investors they are paid so well to represent.

Fertile for psychopaths: New corporate culture

If this theory is correct, how did this become such a crisis in recent decades? Boddy suggests that corporations have changed from relatively stable institutions where psychopaths would have a difficult time concealing themselves, to highly fluid organizations where it is much easier for them to disappear within the chaos in their wake.

“(The) whole corporate and employment environment changed from one that would hold the Corporate Psychopath in check to one where they could flourish and advance relatively unopposed,” Boddy writes. “As evidence of this, senior level remuneration and reward started to increase more and more rapidly and beyond all proportion to shop floor incomes and a culture of greed unfettered by conscience developed. Corporate Psychopaths are ideally situated to prey on such an environment and corporate fraud, financial misrepresentation, greed and misbehaviour went through the roof, bringing down huge companies and culminating in the Global Financial Crisis that we are now in.”

Boddy is not hopeful that the current round of expensive public bailouts will solve the problem. If psychopaths have in fact installed themselves in the upper reaches of the world’s financial institutions, their genetic deficiency dictates that their greed knows no bounds. They will continue to act in anti-social, remorseless ways, amplified by their enormous corporate influence until the institutions they represent and perhaps the entire global economy collapses. Obviously, more academic research in this area is urgently needed.

Boddy concludes his recent paper with this grim prediction:

“Writing in 2005, this author . . . predicted that the rise of Corporate Psychopaths was a recipe for corporate and societal disaster. This disaster has now happened and is still happening. Across the western world, the symptoms of the financial crisis are now being treated. However, this treatment of the symptoms will have little effect because the root cause is not being addressed. The very same Corporate Psychopaths, who probably caused the crisis by their self-seeking greed and avarice, are now advising governments on how to get out of the crisis. That this involves paying themselves vast bonuses in the midst of financial hardship for many millions of others is symptomatic of the problem. Further, if (this theory is correct) then we are now far from the end of the crisis. Indeed, it is only the end of the beginning. Perhaps more than ever before, the world needs corporate leaders with a conscience . . . Measures exist to identify Corporate Psychopaths. Perhaps it is time to use them.”

Time has come for testing

Boddy’s last statement contains a kernel of hope. If our world has become chaotic due to institutionalized psychopathy, imagine how much better it could be if such dangerously impaired individuals were excluded from positions of power and influence.

Precedence exists for dealing with such situations. Randomized workplace drug testing became the norm in the 1980s. At the time, civil libertarians strongly objected on the basis that it violated personal privacy protections. However, the U.S. Supreme Court decided in 1989 that such testing was constitutional and now about 25 per cent of Fortune 500 companies routinely require their employees to submit to such tests.

Perhaps investors at major financial institutions should require that senior level managers submit to established tests to ensure they are not psychopathic. This is not an issue of civil liberties since the precedent has already been well established regarding drug impairment in the workplace. Likewise, it is not a regulatory issue since private shareholders have every right to demand that executives demonstrate they are not biochemically impaired and therefore unable to carry out their fiduciary duties on behalf of investors. If corporate boards are hiring psychopaths as executive management, they are not carrying out their due diligence and could be held legally liable for their oversight.

Companies should also consider providing employees with specific whistleblower provisions to expose potential psychopaths in the workplace. A 2010 study by Boddy showed that corporate psychopaths caused more than one quarter of all workplace bullying, though they accounted for only one per cent of the workforce.

Besides being traumatic and humiliating to other workers, this bullying is also very expensive. Boddy calculated that bullying by corporate psychopaths cost companies in the U.K. more than £3.5 billion per year in lost productivity and attrition. Extrapolating these results to the United States, these deviant individuals are responsible for more than $35 billion in direct annual losses to U.S. businesses.

Politicians, too?

And what about elected officials? There is no higher standard of trust in our society than standing for public office. Campaigning politicians are expected to submit to almost absurd levels of scrutiny about their private lives, character and personal relationships. Should not candidates begin providing voters proof that they are medically capable of acting in the interests of the public that may elect them?

The Occupy Wall Street protesters demanding an end to the reign of the “1 per cent” may have unwittingly stumbled on the crux of the issue. Science tells us that 99 per cent of humans have normal emotional function. One per cent are psychopaths. We ignore that truth at our peril.

Mitchell Anderson is a Vancouver-based journalist.

[modwiz]

This thread is an excellent idea Carmody. It is time to stir the pot, not to mention scheisse or get off of it. Your posts have been leading to a congealing point. This thread is bringing that point closer, creating a sharper focus on the problem. IMO. There can be no solution without this step.

It is a shame that snakes have to be the symbol for these parasites. I like snakes. I understand our culture and language though and see the 'logic' of the author.

[Carmody]

This thread is an excellent idea Carmody. It is time to stir the pot, not to mention scheisse or get off of it. Your posts have been leading to a congealing point. This thread is bringing that point closer, creating a sharper focus on the problem. IMO. There can be no solution without this step.

It is a shame that snakes have to be the symbol for these parasites. I like snakes. I understand our culture and language though and see the 'logic' of the author.

Thank you.

Every single thread on this forum, the very reason this forum exists, the very reason that all alternative media exists, the very reason we have a complex human history.........some part of it, from from wholly or largely ...to incidentally/tangentially, causally, etc...runs through this single point. All of them. there are no exceptions --that I can understand.


That is how 'core' it is to any solution.

[modwiz]

This thread is an excellent idea Carmody. It is time to stir the pot, not to mention scheisse or get off of it. Your posts have been leading to a congealing point. This thread is bringing that point closer, creating a sharper focus on the problem. IMO. There can be no solution without this step.

It is a shame that snakes have to be the symbol for these parasites. I like snakes. I understand our culture and language though and see the 'logic' of the author.

Thank you.

Every single thread on this forum, the very reason this forum exists, the very reason that all alternative media exists, the very reason we have a complex human history.........some part of it, from from wholly or largely ...to incidentally/tangentially, causally, etc...runs through this single point. All of them. there are no exceptions --that I can understand.


That is how 'core' it is to any solution.

The importance of this cannot be overstated, nor can the truth of your statement about this single point. I believe this thread will prove a 'pivot'. I will do what I can to create that with you as will others here who "get it".

[Flash]

I am so glad this is brought to light in Avalon as well, once again. Thanks Carmody.

But... I am surprised and extremely glad it is brought to light in "official" research and in a main Canadian newspaper. Who knows, maybe some psychopaths owned American and European newspapers will pick it up as well. It has to start somewhere.

No later than this week end I was talking to a friend, CEO, of her comments that business has no emotions whatsoever, none like not al all, that is it purely cold. I was telling her that I understood, I had seen it in hundred of corporations, that money was thought of this way, and that it was always making me utterly unconfortable. I added up that it may be THE reason I am not rich yet. I cannot come to terms with dealing with psychopaths.

I see some concommitant problems:

1. detecting psychopaths and not allowing them any kind of power positiions, be at home or at work or in society
2. changing the "reward" system in the society as to avoid any future tendencies for psychopaths to become powerful
3. therefore changing the monetary system and its incentives
4. making research as to how to change the psychopatic brain in the future for an increase into empathy
5. convincing the sheeples that we have to solve this problem once and for all by making positive discrimination (as we are doing for women in the workplace for example) and all this convincing work without access to resources such as newspapers and television, all owned by the same psychopaths.

By the same token, maybe those with lots of empathy and compassion while having a leveled humour could be the ones elected at the top of corporations and in government.

I have few hopes that we will not go through hell before this happens.

[Carmody]

I am so glad this is brought to light in Avalon as well, once again. Thanks Carmody.

But... I am surprised and extremely glad it is brought to light in "official" researchs and in a main Canadian newspaper. Who knows, maybe some psychopaths owned American and European newspapers will pick it up as well. It has to start somewhere.

No later than this week end I was talking to a friend, CEO, of her comments that business has no emotions whatsoever, none like not al all, involved, that is it purely cold. I was telling her that I understood, I had seen it in hundreds of corporations, that money was thought of this way, and that it was always making me utterly uncomfortable. I added up that it may be THE reason I am not rich yet. I cannot come to terms with dealing with psychopaths.

I see two concommitant problems:

1. detecting psychopaths and not allowing them any kind of power, be at home or at work
2. changing the "reward" system in the society as to avoid any future tendencies for psychopaths to become powerful
3. therefore changing the monetary system and its incentives
4. making research as to how to change the psychopatic brain in the future for an increase into empathy
5. convincing the sheeples that we have to solve this problem once and for all by making positive discrimination (as we are doing for women in the workplace for example) and all this without access to resources such as newspapers and television, all owned by the same psychopaths.

By the same token, maybe those with lots of empathy and compassion while having a leveled humour could be the ones elected at the top of corporations and in government.

I have few hopes that we will not go through hell before this happens.

That is due to those without empathy seeing their lack of control ----as hell itself.


Stage one:

Designing a detection system and methodology - that cannot be corrupted. In it's design or implementation. This is your first 'catch 22' that will be attacked with utmost force and also subtlety. The attempts at manipulation, misdirection, and interference of this stage - will be extreme.

[Flash]

So what could be step 1.a?

[modwiz]

Aren't psychopaths like porn? You know them when you see them........in action. I would think they are quite obvious neurolinguistically, especially when the guard drops. Every armor/guard is fallible and usually very easily seen by an observer. Participants can be 'magicianed'.

I think it is the acceptance and acknowledgement that there is a problem, a psychopath in the pathological sense, that is the real hurdle. The test is not the hard part, IMO.

There are families of these critters. Some of them in very privileged positions, and some in our own families. This is a matter of consciousness and awakening. There will be no reality TV show, "Identify The Psychopath". This is pull your head out of your a$$ time.

Perhaps the drama of the subject will catch on and become a popular meme. It has to become a meme.

[TWINCANS]

I believe the psychological testing has in many cases been done and many reports will already be on file that show VP X was noted to have extreme tendencies etc etc. Business began testing all senior hires 20 years ago at least. I have seen one such report myself. It was in 1990 and the individual in question was clearly unbalanced to a dangerous degree, and knew it himself, yet was offered a 6 figure job. He didn't last long but still works in the industry and makes good money.

So the info might already be on file. But how do you get corporations to care?

Same holds for the police who ar discussed in another thread for hiring based on preference for some strange psychological profiles.

[Flash]

They are very bright Modwiz and not that easily discernible when profit is at hand. They know when to withdraw and wait, when to charm, when to look innocent, when and how to manipulate and have no consciousness about it, not guilt, no nothing.

Normal human being cannot come to term with the fact that such being exist and that they may be their bosses. Denial is rampant amongst employees, because it is too hard to swallow. Furthermore, we are group animals that need the environment and others to sustain ourselves and to survive, therefore we bend to autority and cannot admit it is there to harm us. I have seen many people forgiving and saying psychopaths can change, even when they don't. This is the syndrome of the beaten woman: "but I looooove him! He is a changed man".

[Carmody]

I believe the psychological testing has in many cases been done and many reports will already be on file that show VP X was noted to have extreme tendencies etc etc. Business began testing all senior hires 20 years ago at least. I have seen one such report myself. It was in 1990 and the individual in question was clearly unbalanced to a dangerous degree, and knew it himself, yet was offered a 6 figure job. He didn't last long but still works in the industry and makes good money.

So the info might already be on file. But how do you get corporations to care?

Same holds for the police who ar discussed in another thread for hiring based on preference for some strange psychological profiles.

This is the return to stage one, step one.

they do not fear the stick, but it stalls them.

the trick is to design the proper stick.

An indefatigable and uncorruptible as possible 'stick' ---that self checks at each stage. Openly.

The problem is one of interjection into a prexisting flow..injecting a methodology of beginning to stop or slow the flow of the issue at hand.

If you fail to go for a fundamental testing regimen and protocol at the HIGHEST levels of power and control, first,well..you will not be effective.

You must undo the core engine...first.

So yes, I stand corrected, regarding stages. first recognition of the issue. But I feel that most already know it. It needs to be brought to their attention, brought to the forefront as an established reality of being the fundamental.

The first story is the one the public finds to be true, many times...as it has the longest history and depth. 'Wag the dog' is an excellent film that covers this sort of aspect.

Thus the initial discussion as if awareness -is already achieved.

These points are logic based on the human edifice, and it's particular ways, and how this issue would be best introduced to the overall human stage or play.

[Flash]

I am not sure the points of discussion related to awareness are already achieved Carmody. Here is what I posted in another thread, related to psychopathy, and a development of the idea below


This is precisely what I am talking about. Lots of people love them and will defend them, saying they are personnaly unscratched. That is precisely how they maintain power, by sparing some while being heavy handed on others where it brings the most.

Manipulation was palpable from the start. I am sorry you still do not see it guys, but you do prove my point.

By the way LS, those are not opinions of mine. I could retake the posts and list one after the other the different tactics used by manipulators and correlate it with Charles' posts. And yet, you would probably say these are opinions.

How do you want to save the planet if manipulators go not only undetected, but protected by the mass.

This is not a judgment or reproach, this is just to show how difficult it is to handle cunning and to change ones views. When people are damaged, hurt, killed, you are dealing with at the minimum someone really screwed up, and most probalby with psychopathy. It is that simple. Yet, that difficult to admit.

And this, even if personnally you were not scratched a bit. Yet you have seen it on others....

Even if awareness is there (which I think it is not yet by the main public, just a start of an eye opening), you still have denials, even if the ever present damages are right there, being screamed by others, yet denied (re: Auswitch and Pol Pot and Albugraith and...).

It becomes opinions, ways of seeing thing, divergences, or plainly "not my problem, I hide my head in the sand". I have seen it countless of times in corporations and I have seen people, environment, companies completely destroyed by the psychopaths and by the employees hiding heads. But it is not my problem mentality prevailed and all the excuses that goes with it.

I will add up another problem to my previous post, and it is this one:

6. taking one's own responsibilities for what is happening around oneself, not only to oneself. Until we reach that step of thinking for the well being of all and acting in consequence, psychopaths will have the game to themselves. Responsibility is one of the main key to unlock the problem.

Some sage told me that real great beings, real Masters, are naturally thinking and behaving for others, this is a natural state in them. Why? Because they lived the All One that we are and they know that doing good for others first, being of service to others is as well being of service to oneself.

Responsibility for this way of living is, imho, a prerequesite for getting rid of psychopaths who are actually leading the whole planet. Our mistake: taking responsibility for the situation

[ViralSpiral]

I would agree that the first stage would be recognizing their alluring predatory waltz of death :)
The "brighter" the snake, the easier it is for them to see potential dance partners.
We need to wisen up! Stop the music! Turn up the lights!




Thank you

[Carmody]

And you might find that history books in 2030 and what not, might say that: "the turnaround that began in 2012, was cemented into being with the introduction of the first socially oriented 'universal' psychopath exclusion laws in 2015".

tis' a dream I have.

It also bears saying that this is a slippery slope, for their interjection and twisting -is inevitable.

What we are talking about is very much about turning the heat up so it is simply impossible to live or be in this framework of existence. The virus dies.

[Flash]

Sweet dream

[ViralSpiral]

It also bears saying that this is a slippery slope, for their interjection and twisting -is inevitable.



Yes, and our humanness a hindrance.

[Carmody]

I am not sure the points of discussion related to awareness are already achieved Carmody. Here is what I posted in another thread, related to psychopathy, and a development of the idea below


This is precisely what I am talking about. Lots of people love them and will defend them, saying they are personnaly unscratched. That is precisely how they maintain power, by sparing some while being heavy handed on others where it brings the most.

Manipulation was palpable from the start. I am sorry you still do not see it guys, but you do prove my point.

By the way LS, those are not opinions of mine. I could retake the posts and list one after the other the different tactics used by manipulators and correlate it with Charles' posts. And yet, you would probably say these are opinions.

How do you want to save the planet if manipulators go not only undetected, but protected by the mass.

This is not a judgment or reproach, this is just to show how difficult it is to handle cunning and to change ones views. When people are damaged, hurt, killed, you are dealing with at the minimum someone really screwed up, and most probalby with psychopathy. It is that simple. Yet, that difficult to admit.

And this, even if personnally you were not scratched a bit. Yet you have seen it on others....

Even if awareness is there (which I think it is not yet by the main public, just a start of an eye opening), you still have denials, even if the ever present damages are right there, being screamed by others, yet denied (re: Auswitch and Pol Pot and Albugraith and...).

It becomes opinions, ways of seeing thing, divergences, or plainly "not my problem, I hide my head in the sand". I have seen it countless of times in corporations and I have seen people, environment, companies completely destroyed by the psychopaths and by the employees hiding heads. But it is not my problem mentality prevailed and all the excuses that goes with it.

I will add up another problem to my previous post, and it is this one:

6. taking one's own responsibilities for what is happening around oneself, not only to oneself. Until we reach that step of thinking for the well being of all and acting in consequence, psychopaths will have the game to themselves. Responsibility is one of the main key to unlock the problem.

Some sage told me that real great beings, real Masters, are naturally thinking and behaving for others, this is a natural state in them. Why? Because they lived the All One that we are and they know that doing good for others first, being of service to others is as well being of service to oneself.

Responsibility for this way of living is, imho, a prerequesite for getting rid of psychopaths who are actually leading the whole planet. Our mistake: taking responsibility for the situation

I help people fix themselves, sometimes... by acting in their presence as if the issue at hand which they cannot seem to see,is an established point and that I am past that and on the next stage. I do not respond to their incredulity or their lack of understanding. they are confused by the lack of the stage of thrust and parry, in argument, which is their social norm. Take it past that social norm.

The act of running from a fire which they cannot see, thus they run along with you, until they know what is going on. Which, depending on the situation, their personal understanding of the core point -may never occur. This is tied to the human childhood methodology of learning unknowns through acting them out and fitting in.....

Herding tactics can work both ways. good and bad.

Edward Bernays psychosocial interjection class, 101.

[sandy]

Great Thread Carmody,

There is truly a way to detect a psychopath IMO and experience and it is through what I call heart energy. I have taught experiential groups in the correctional system for many years of which a number of psychopaths crossed my path :)

It takes time to build trust and care in a group ( approx 4 weeks) but after this is established then the deeper truths and pain arise and in this sharing and disclosure one's heart is open or opening and all are quite vulnerable and take care to keep the environment safe for themselves and others. Those with no heart at all are easily detected as the heart radar is wide open and people are consciously or unconsciously very turned to spoken/seen or unspoken/unseen danger.

At this point communications are shared from both the thought and heart centers and is very real and no psychopath can pass this sensing and feeling test no matter how hard they try..............the genuine person can actually be experienced emotionally so to speak and when this sensation of emotion is not there at this level you are dealing with a psychopath. ( they can cry real tears and appear emotional) but one who is in their heart knows when it is not registering, as genuine automatic compassion is not being activated. A psychopath can and will manipulate and con all who they come in contact with and even if you are a person who has a clear, clean, connection to your heart and trust emotions more than your thoughts or ego and confront them individually they will persist. They cannot understand and see you as a challenge to be overcome and will continue to bait, entice, harrass, bully etc, thus unmitigated detachment is the only answer to these individuals.

I agree they must be weeded out starting with the Board of Directors and CEO`s and uppermanagement of all mega corporations. Good Luck finding people with the skills to hold intense group sessions with psychopaths as there would have to be as more coaches as students in order to weed these f**ks out. Believe it or not a group of inmates are very adept at weeding out these sicko`s once they get past their pain and into their hearts :)

[modwiz]

I help people fix themselves, sometimes... by acting in their presence as if the issue at hand which they cannot seem to see,is an established point and that I am past that and on the next stage. I do not respond to their incredulity or their lack of understanding. they are confused by the lack of the stage of thrust and parry, in argument, which is their social norm. Take it past that social norm.

The act of running from a fire which they cannot see, thus they run along with you, until they know what is going on. Which, depending on the situation, their personal understanding of the core point -may never occur. This is tied to the human childhood methodology of learning unknowns through acting them out and fitting in.....

Herding tactics can work both ways. good and bad.

Edward Bernays psychosocial interjection class, 101.

That is good stuff. Very good stuff. Even brilliant.

Apologies for smoke in your colon.:o

[Flash]

Then how do we teach heart opening to the mass and in corporations? How do we teach the creation of safe environments in corporations?

[Flash]

Carmody;366201
I help people fix themselves, sometimes... by acting in their presence as if the issue at hand which they cannot seem to see,is an established point and that I am past that and on the next stage. I do not respond to their incredulity or their lack of understanding. they are confused by the lack of the stage of thrust and parry, in argument, which is their social norm. Take it past that social norm.

The act of running from a fire which they cannot see, thus they run along with you, until they know what is going on. Which, depending on the situation, their personal understanding of the core point -may never occur. This is tied to the human childhood methodology of learning unknowns through acting them out and fitting in.....

Herding tactics can work both ways. good and bad.

Edward Bernays psychosocial interjection class, 101.

Really good post. Related to responsibilites as well, taken on a personal intimate basis, without having others to know about it.

Therefore, we need tons of Carmody's clones to go into corporations, and politics, and do the same - those aware do have to take these kind of responsibilities, don't they?

[Carmody]

I help people fix themselves, sometimes... by acting in their presence as if the issue at hand which they cannot seem to see,is an established point and that I am past that and on the next stage. I do not respond to their incredulity or their lack of understanding. they are confused by the lack of the stage of thrust and parry, in argument, which is their social norm. Take it past that social norm.

The act of running from a fire which they cannot see, thus they run along with you, until they know what is going on. Which, depending on the situation, their personal understanding of the core point -may never occur. This is tied to the human childhood methodology of learning unknowns through acting them out and fitting in.....

Herding tactics can work both ways. good and bad.

Edward Bernays psychosocial interjection class, 101.

That is good stuff. Very good stuff. Even brilliant.

Apologies for smoke in your colon.:o

This may also work for the reason that is is intensely karmic. What you put out ---you get to eat.

Note to sociopath: welcome to where you come from.

[Calz]

Then how do we teach heart opening to the mass and in corporations? How do we teach the creation of safe environments in corporations?

As Carmody's OP points out there are psychopaths .... um ... just about everywhere.

If we are zeroing in on the corporation variety we need to remember that in this current state of "reality" corporations, as entities by definition, have as their specific and sole purpose to make money for their "shareholders" (ie read cover for the elite).

Thus in this specific circumstance not only the psychopath need be addressed but the very nature of corporations as entities themselves. Seperate issue.

Great topic and thread Carmody.

I even resisted the temptation to jump in and run with modwiz smokin' comment :smokin:

There is some great material and previous threads regarding psychopaths but coming to grips on how, exactly, to deal with them is somewhat uncharted territory.

Interesting to see where this goes.

[Carmody]

Then how do we teach heart opening to the mass and in corporations? How do we teach the creation of safe environments in corporations?

town council provisions for hiring and elections, same for cities, then, provinces/states....then up to federal.

It always starts at the grass roots level.

There will be stumbling, at first, and you will see the hidden hand move into even the local town situations and attempts. This is a given. I've seen it before, as have many others. This is due to them being there, at that level. They will try themselves... and possibly bring in 'hired guns' to try and prevent the precedent from getting onto the books.

The precedent becomes the perpetuation and the shaping of the given law itself, in a land of rule of law and contract law.

it really does not, to some degree..matter if the initial attempts are effective -or not.

Awareness must rise and that is where it will take place, on the local level. The major corporate and political walls are too big to scale.

The 'end run' around them ---is the local scene. In that small fish bowl, any attempts at outside influence will be noticed. It is simply the strongest position to begin -at.

[Calz]

It always starts at the grass roots level.

Absolutely.

There are some success stories of communities having fluoride removed from the local water system by approaching the appropriate officials within that area.

[Carmody]

Hiring, appointment,and electoral suitability provisions, as a local ordinance. Provisions that testing for mental stability and correctness have taken place....and that these tests are in full, recorded, in visual and written media, for future analysis and public viewing.

The best place to start might be for schooling provisions.

The USA and western world, overall... is in the middle of a fully blown pedophilia scare, and this is the best door to walk through, regarding hiring on school boards and teaching positions, and the like.

for example, even better...to open a pre-school care group, for profit..the local city may introduce a need for this sort of testing to be a reality.

The people will jump on it.

Turn a PTB freedom destruction method and technique for tweaking the emotions of people, for the PTB to get what they want---on it's head.

This comes back to the larger task at hand in such situations of legal or formulated method and testing rigor/completeness..for the visual and written records of it to be permanently public and not sealed.

If they successfully argue for it to be done behind closed doors, you are back to a defeated position.

They only need a sliver of a door, and this is where it will take place. Keep that door firmly closed, via keeping the process and record--open.

Since it will be a local ordinance attempt, and a small fish bowl, then you have this chance to see and witness the bringing in of the bigger guns, in order for them to attempt to close the door..

[Flash]

Your are right they would jump on it, but even me I know that pedophiles do have empathy, how do you implement the psychopaths part - I will think about it and find a way for sure.

Here interesting stuff to read:

http://www.examiner.com/law-enforcement-in-national/serial-killers-and-politicians-share-traits



Serial killers and politicians share traits
Add a comment Jim Kouri, Law Enforcement Examiner
June 12, 2009 - Like this? Subscribe to get instant updates.
22 comments.8 SharePrintEmail
8SharePrintEmail.(The following commentary includes material obtained by the National Association of Chiefs of Police from the Federal Bureau of Investigation's Behavioral Analysis Unit.)
Psychopathy is a personality disorder manifested in people who use a mixture of charm, manipulation, intimidation, and occasionally violence to control others, in order to satisfy their own selfish needs. Although the concept of psychopathy has been known for centuries, the FBI leads the world in the research effort to develop a series of assessment tools, to evaluate the personality traits and behaviors attributable to psychopaths.

Interpersonal traits include glibness, superficial charm, a grandiose sense of self-worth, pathological lying, and the manipulation of others. The affective traits include a lack of remorse and/or guilt, shallow affect, a lack of empathy, and failure to accept responsibility. The lifestyle behaviors include stimulation-seeking behavior, impulsivity, irresponsibility, parasitic orientation, and a lack of realistic life goals.

Research has demonstrated that in those criminals who are psychopathic, scores vary, ranging from a high degree of psychopathy to some measure of psychopathy. However, not all violent offenders are psychopaths and not all psychopaths are violent offenders. If violent offenders are psychopathic, they are able to assault, rape, and murder without concern for legal, moral, or social consequences. This allows them to do what they want, whenever they want. Ironically, these same traits exist in men and women who are drawn to high-profile and powerful positions in society including political officeholders.

The relationship between psychopathy and serial killers is particularly interesting. All psychopaths do not become serial murderers. Rather, serial murderers may possess some or many of the traits consistent with psychopathy. Psychopaths who commit serial murder do not value human life and are extremely callous in their interactions with their victims. This is particularly evident in sexually motivated serial killers who repeatedly target, stalk, assault, and kill without a sense of remorse. However, psychopathy alone does not explain the motivations of a serial killer.

What doesn't go unnoticed is the fact that some of the character traits exhibited by serial killers or criminals may be observed in many within the political arena. While not exhibiting physical violence, many political leaders display varying degrees of anger, feigned outrage and other behaviors. They also lack what most consider a "shame" mechanism. Quite simply, most serial killers and many professional politicians must mimic what they believe, are appropriate responses to situations they face such as sadness, empathy, sympathy, and other human responses to outside stimuli.

Understanding psychopathy becomes particularly critical to law enforcement during a serial murder investigation and upon the arrest of a psychopathic serial killer. The crime scene behavior of psychopaths is likely to be distinct from other offenders. This distinct behavior can assist law enforcement in linking serial cases.

Psychopaths are not sensitive to altruistic interview themes, such as sympathy for their victims or remorse/guilt over their crimes. They do possess certain personality traits that can be exploited, particularly their inherent narcissism, selfishness, and vanity. Specific themes in past successful interviews of psychopathic serial killers focused on praising their intelligence, cleverness, and skill in evading capture.

Experts recognize that more research is needed concerning the links between serial murder and psychopathy, in order to understand the frequency and degree of psychopathy among serial murderers. This may assist law enforcement in understanding and identifying serial murderers.

Over the past twenty years, law enforcement and experts from a number of varying disciplines have attempted to identify specific motivations for serial murderers and to apply those motivations to different typologies developed for classifying serial murderers. These range from simple, definitive models to complex, multiple-category typologies that are laden with inclusion requirements. Most typologies are too cumbersome to be utilized by law enforcement during an active serial murder investigation, and they may not be helpful in identifying an offender.

As most homicides are committed by someone known to the victim, police focus on the relationships closest to the victim. This is a successful strategy for most murder investigations. The majority of serial murderers, however, are not acquainted with or involved in a consensual relationship with their victims.

For the most part, serial murder involves strangers with no visible relationship between the offender and the victim. This distinguishes a serial murder investigation as a more nebulous undertaking than that of other crimes. Since the investigations generally lack an obvious connection between the offender and the victim, investigators instead attempt to discern the motivations behind the murders, as a way to narrow their investigative focus.

Serial murder crime scenes can have bizarre features that may cloud the identification of a motive. The behavior of a serial murderer at crime scenes may evolve throughout the series of crimes and manifest different interactions between an offender and a victim. It is also extremely difficult to identify a single motivation when there is more than one offender involved in the series.

Identifying a homicide series is easier in rapidly-developing, high profile cases involving low risk victims. These cases are reported to law enforcement upon discovery of the crimes and draw immediate media attention.

In contrast, identifying a series involving high risk victims in multiple jurisdictions is much more difficult. This is primarily due to the high risk lifestyle and transitory nature of the victims. Additionally, the lack of communication between law enforcement agencies and differing records management systems impede the linkage of cases to a common offender.

While many political leaders will deny the assessment regarding their similarities with serial killers and other career criminals, it is part of a psychopathic profile that may be used in assessing the behaviors of many officials and lawmakers at all levels of government.

.

Continue reading on Examiner.com Serial killers and politicians share traits - National Law Enforcement | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/law-enforcement-in-national/serial-killers-and-politicians-share-traits#ixzz1f4pekByr

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Here some more for testing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6aCir5bu-c&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6aCir5bu-c&feature=related

¤=[Post Update]=¤

MRI for psychopaths

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaTfdKYbudk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaTfdKYbudk

[modwiz]

There was a woman named Svali some years ago who claimed to be from an Illuminati family. I listened to her interviews and most people, including me thinks she passed the smell test. She claimed, and I believe, that there is some Illuminati family presence in every town in America, with rare exceptions. They are there watching the town supervisors and clerks and police chiefs. As long as things don't get too wild their hand on the tiller is subtle. The better to be the unseen hand. They are the gatekeepers.

They conduct their sacrificial rites in some unknown basement with a few other members. David Icke has/had a list of their many observant days. Needless to say, these people are the real targets, up close and personal to all of us. They are also the least visible in the day to day business of most towns and villages. I am guessing that any organization that seeks to bring awareness about these 'snakes' amongst us may cause them to stir, to object to such insanity. The Ghandi progression of, ” First they ignore you, then they laugh at you,then they fight you,Then you win.”

I will now digress to speak of a chapter from LOTR, the second to last in the trilogy called, The Scouring of the Shire". If you have the book, The Return of the King, it is worth a read. It is an education in organization but most importantly the will to 'take no more' and to take causalities, if need be, to secure ones freedom.

Whereas they were mopping up the periphery after the center was destroyed, our goal is to start at the periphery, taking down the defenses of the center. The edges dissolving is sure to create adrenaline at the center. Fight or flight thinking which is not thinking at all. A sympathetic nervous system response takes blood from the brain, leading to sloppiness and tactical mistakes.

I have no idea if there is an ounce of utility in any if this. For some reason I was moved to get this out even though typing was the last thing I wanted to do.

I think that is enough for know. Don't need any drones buzzing the Tower.

[christian]

How to avoid letting psychopaths get into positions of power?

Vigilance instead of complacency

Discernment instead of credulity

Self-responsibility instead of submissiveness

Determination instead of timidity

[Calz]

There was a woman named Svali some years ago who claimed to be from an Illuminati family. I listened to her interviews and most people, including me thinks she passed the smell test. She claimed, and I believe, that there is some Illuminati family presence in every town in America, with rare exceptions. They are there watching the town supervisors and clerks and police chiefs. As long as things don't get too wild their hand on the tiller is subtle. The better to be the unseen hand. They are the gatekeepers.

They conduct their sacrificial rites in some unknown basement with a few other members. David Icke has/had a list of their many observant days. Needless to say, these people are the real targets, up close and personal to all of us. They are also the least visible in the day to day business of most towns and villages. I am guessing that any organization that seeks to bring awareness about these 'snakes' amongst us may cause them to stir, to object to such insanity. The Ghandi progression of, ” First they ignore you, then they laugh at you,then they fight you,Then you win.”

I will now digress to speak of a chapter from LOTR, the second to last in the trilogy called, The Scouring of the Shire". If you have the book, The Return of the King, it is worth a read. It is an education in organization but most importantly the will to 'take no more' and to take causalities, if need be, to secure ones freedom.

Whereas they were mopping up the periphery after the center was destroyed, our goal is to start at the periphery, taking down the defenses of the center. The edges dissolving is sure to create adrenaline at the center. Fight or flight thinking which is not thinking at all. A sympathetic nervous system response takes blood from the brain, leading to sloppiness and tactical mistakes.

I have no idea if there is an ounce of utility in any if this. For some reason I was moved to get this out even though typing was the last thing I wanted to do.

I think that is enough for know. Don't need any drones buzzing the Tower.


Read a lot of the Svali material years ago after Wilcock posted about it. Confirmed by other material (not for the faint of heart).

I had just made a post in another thread and made a Lord of the Rings reference before reading this and it was one of those "shivers" moments when seeing your post here.

Could be nothing or could be everything.

Not to go off topic (as Carmody implies all roads lead here) but missiles were launched into Israel.






Another prospect is a possible NATO attack on neighboring Syria. If NATO engages in a military campaign against al-Assad in Syria, it may have ramifications for Israel, most notably the firing of rockets into Israel by Hezbollah in southern Lebanon.



Rockets fired from Lebanon land in northern Israel

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?35736-Rockets-fired-from-Lebanon-land-in-northern-Israel


and so it begins

11629



... or not ...

[modwiz]

There was a woman named Svali some years ago who claimed to be from an Illuminati family. I listened to her interviews and most people, including me thinks she passed the smell test. She claimed, and I believe, that there is some Illuminati family presence in every town in America, with rare exceptions. They are there watching the town supervisors and clerks and police chiefs. As long as things don't get too wild their hand on the tiller is subtle. The better to be the unseen hand. They are the gatekeepers.

They conduct their sacrificial rites in some unknown basement with a few other members. David Icke has/had a list of their many observant days. Needless to say, these people are the real targets, up close and personal to all of us. They are also the least visible in the day to day business of most towns and villages. I am guessing that any organization that seeks to bring awareness about these 'snakes' amongst us may cause them to stir, to object to such insanity. The Ghandi progression of, ” First they ignore you, then they laugh at you,then they fight you,Then you win.”

I will now digress to speak of a chapter from LOTR, the second to last in the trilogy called, The Scouring of the Shire". If you have the book, The Return of the King, it is worth a read. It is an education in organization but most importantly the will to 'take no more' and to take causalities, if need be, to secure ones freedom.

Whereas they were mopping up the periphery after the center was destroyed, our goal is to start at the periphery, taking down the defenses of the center. The edges dissolving is sure to create adrenaline at the center. Fight or flight thinking which is not thinking at all. A sympathetic nervous system response takes blood from the brain, leading to sloppiness and tactical mistakes.

I have no idea if there is an ounce of utility in any if this. For some reason I was moved to get this out even though typing was the last thing I wanted to do.

I think that is enough for know. Don't need any drones buzzing the Tower.


Read a lot of the Svali material years ago after Wilcock posted about it. Confirmed by other material (not for the faint of heart).

I had just made a post in another thread and made a Lord of the Rings reference before reading this and it was one of those "shivers" moments when seeing your post here.

Could be nothing or could be everything.

Not to go off topic (as Carmody implies all roads lead here) but missiles were launched into Israel.






Another prospect is a possible NATO attack on neighboring Syria. If NATO engages in a military campaign against al-Assad in Syria, it may have ramifications for Israel, most notably the firing of rockets into Israel by Hezbollah in southern Lebanon.



Rockets fired from Lebanon land in northern Israel

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?35736-Rockets-fired-from-Lebanon-land-in-northern-Israel


and so it begins

11629



... or not ...

They were the usual self inflicted rockets that do none to a little damage and hurt no one. They give the zionist entity an excuse to 'protect itself' with F-16s. And so it begins, just what 'it' is, remains to be seen. Somebody brown will die.

Snakes in suits and uniform.

[noprophet]

As I read all this I can't help but think I'm a bit psychopathic myself. Especially considering I had no idea why people did the things they did growing up. I in fact spent much of my early life testing action and response on anyone and everyone I knew. I watched television and learned to mimic how sitcom and movie characters acted in order to better fit in with people. Friends would often laugh thinking I was joking about something when in fact I was completely serious and was just assuming I was making a proper response - so i would make note.

The interesting thing is that I have almost no emotional memory. If you ask me to remember something I can't really tell you how I ever felt about anything growing up but I can tell you the color of toys I had, plots of books I read, things I saw on television and all in great detail. To this day I have an extremely high information retention and I am not comfortable in highly emotional situations.

I don't know if this makes me psychopathic or not, but I'd appreciate not being burned at the stake. :)

[modwiz]

As I read all this I can't help but think I'm a bit psychopathic myself. Especially considering I had no idea why people did the things they did growing up. I in fact spent much of my early life testing action and response on anyone and everyone I knew. I watched television and learned to mimic how sitcom and movie characters acted in order to better fit in with people. Friends would often laugh thinking I was joking about something when in fact I was completely serious and was just assuming I was making a proper response - so i would make note.

The interesting thing is that I have almost no emotional memory. If you ask me to remember something I can't really tell you how I ever felt about anything growing up but I can tell you the color of toys I had, plots of books I read, things I saw on television and all in great detail. To this day I have an extremely high information retention and I am not comfortable in highly emotional situations.

I don't know if this makes me psychopathic or not, but I'd appreciate not being burned at the stake. :)

I am willing to step out on a limb and state that such self-reflection about so genteel a subject would disqualify you from being a psychopath.

No six figure salary or unearned bonus for you. :frog:

[ulli]

Sun in Scorpio, Moon in Gemini, Mars opposite Pluto, Scorpio stellum in the 10 th house, with the sun between Venus and Saturn, all squaring Pluto....Mars in Aquarius in the first house. Pluto in the 7 th.
There ya go.
And that bit about twins, proves the genetics, but also proves the astro factor.

[Calz]

A true psychopath sitting on death row for mass murder can justify to him/herself good cause for each offense.

In their own eyes they are *never* guilty of any wrong doing.

[ulli]

Maybe I ought to elaborate a bit more...
Scorpio has the secrecy and tenacity needed. Also the cruelty.
The Gemini moon splits the person emotionally.
The sun Venus conjunction provides the attractive good looks as well as the vanity and narcissism. The sun Saturn conjunction gives the ambition.
Mars in the first house provides energy and aggressiveness.
Pluto in the 7th house means others are perceived as potential enemies.

[Referee]

Alex Had a guest on this evening talking about this very subject.

tj1pGtlXxoo

M_pY3QNP2hU

[araucaria]

For further reading, this is a big issue at sott.net, where Laura Knight-Jadcyk was instrumental in publishing the book Political Ponerology. Apparently the percentage is more like 3-4%, and what makes things harder still is that these guys recognize each other and gang up on us.

[modwiz]

Maybe I ought to elaborate a bit more...
Scorpio has the secrecy and tenacity needed. Also the cruelty.
The Gemini moon splits the person emotionally.
The sun Venus conjunction provides the attractive good looks as well as the vanity and narcissism. The sun Saturn conjunction gives the ambition.
Mars in the first house provides energy and aggressiveness.
Pluto in the 7th house means others are perceived as potential enemies.

Who. or what, is being referred to here?

[modwiz]

For further reading, this is a big issue at sott.net, where Laura Knight-Jadcyk was instrumental in publishing the book Political Ponerology. Apparently the percentage is more like 3-4%, and what makes things harder still is that these guys recognize each other and gang up on us.

3-4% against 96%. I'll take those odds. I'm sure we can find what we need from our percentage. It is a matter of awareness and finding a few Jedi knights.

Another thing with these psychopricks. It is slimy when you play a game, there are rules agreed to, and you cheat. These cockroaches, don't even tell you there is a game being played, while they still cheat. This is not a sign of confidence but one of weakness and doubt. They don't see it, but I do.

[ulli]

Maybe I ought to elaborate a bit more...
Scorpio has the secrecy and tenacity needed. Also the cruelty.
The Gemini moon splits the person emotionally.
The sun Venus conjunction provides the attractive good looks as well as the vanity and narcissism. The sun Saturn conjunction gives the ambition.
Mars in the first house provides energy and aggressiveness.
Pluto in the 7th house means others are perceived as potential enemies.

Who. or what, is being referred to here?

Just offering an identification tool.
More than half of the above factors in someone's birth chart and I'll eat my hat if that person is not a psychopath.

[modwiz]

Maybe I ought to elaborate a bit more...
Scorpio has the secrecy and tenacity needed. Also the cruelty.
The Gemini moon splits the person emotionally.
The sun Venus conjunction provides the attractive good looks as well as the vanity and narcissism. The sun Saturn conjunction gives the ambition.
Mars in the first house provides energy and aggressiveness.
Pluto in the 7th house means others are perceived as potential enemies.

Who. or what, is being referred to here?

Just offering an identification tool.
More than half of the above factors in someone's birth chart and I'll eat my hat if that person is not a psychopath.

That helps. Thanks.

[Calz]

Thank you ulli :)

[ulli]

I help people fix themselves, sometimes... by acting in their presence as if the issue at hand which they cannot seem to see,is an established point and that I am past that and on the next stage. I do not respond to their incredulity or their lack of understanding. they are confused by the lack of the stage of thrust and parry, in argument, which is their social norm. Take it past that social norm.

The act of running from a fire which they cannot see, thus they run along with you, until they know what is going on. Which, depending on the situation, their personal understanding of the core point -may never occur. This is tied to the human childhood methodology of learning unknowns through acting them out and fitting in.....

Herding tactics can work both ways. good and bad.

Edward Bernays psychosocial interjection class, 101.

Did anyone here ever see 'the Twelve Tasks of Asterix'?
There was one, I think is was task number six, about having to deal with a beaurocratic system, and how he went about solving that task is exactly what you describe here.

It's come down to fighting fire with fire, folks.

[Lisab]

And in total sync ktlight has just posted that bones have been uncovered at one of the residential schools in Canada by the Mohawk Elders. The time IS now.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Children's bones I meant to say.

[jorr lundstrom]

Im convinced that old proven methods still functions today. Sometimes stupidity

is fatal. It probably works with megalomaniac psychopaths too.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx9KpwVe8uk&feature=related

[motherlove]

What corporation has value add to a compassionate society? The corporation model must end to have compassion I don't see the two mixing whatsoever. The test to weed out psycopaths is yet just another way to control an out of control system a bandaid to stall the inevitable. When corporations end then the mind healing can begin until then everyone is chasing the donkey to pin a tail on it. IMHO. Best Wishes

[ulli]

I found the video. If this is shown in all schools as part of the curriculum we will get real change.
I hope.....
Asterix had an idea how to bring down a malfunctioning system...short of going after the psychopathic leaders directly.

The first 8 minutes they give him the run around...then he figures out how to beat them at their own game.


GI5kwSap9Ug

[Jay]

What would be most useful is a Forbes List of Top Psychopaths - including current incumbents & and protegees.

Perhaps Psycho's prevail when empaths do nothing..

Heads up & TY for interesting thread

[WhiteFeather]

Has anyone Ever noticed The NFL Announcers, they sport this same type of corporate snake skin garment as you speak of, with a convenient american flag lapel. They have their snake skinned slimy hands on everything, don't they!

http://images.forbes.com/media/2011/02/04/0204_football-scandal-shannon-sharpe_485x340.jpg

[Cjay]

If psycopathy is a genetic condition, we should be able to develop a test to detect specific genetic markers. It may also be possible to develop a gene therapy to treat/eliminate the condition. If it is merely a biochemical imbalance, it should be easy to measure and detect that imbalance. We might be able to design dietary changes or develop medications to re-balance those chemicals in the brains of psychopaths.

I wonder if psychopathy can be detected in one's aura and if so, we may be able to develop non-invasive, non-chemical forms of stimuli such as light and sound or experiential stimuli to counteract the tendency for psychopathy or at least to moderate it.

I agree 100% that we need to weed psychopaths out of positions of power in every corner of society. However, as loving, caring, empathic beings, we must be careful not to marginalise 1% of the population without any hope of treatment, rehabilitation and reintegration into society - perhaps with the caveat that they can never be allowed to hold certain positions of power. This caveat may not be necessary if the continuous monitoring and testing regimes as well as the treatments are uncorruptible and verifiably effective.

[Ron Mauer Sr]

Then how do we teach heart opening to the mass and in corporations? How do we teach the creation of safe environments in corporations?

IMHO the solution is internal change. Weave our 12 strands of DNA back together again. The psychopaths are not capable of experiencing the resulting love. They will leave for parts unknown or perish.

How do we reconfigure our DNA? It starts with strong intent and playful research.

[Unified Serenity]

Then how do we teach heart opening to the mass and in corporations? How do we teach the creation of safe environments in corporations?

I don't think we teach them anything, we simply model what we wish to see and be. Each soul is on it's own journey to learn divine love, unity, and peace. I have quit the game, quit complying, and I just don't care about stuff anymore. If I need something, I work a bit more, if I want something I send forth the energy, but I have so little in regard to wants or needs really for now. That could change, but my needs are met. I fell off a horse a month ago, bruised my ribs, and started having some weakness on my left side the past week or so. It got bad enough last night that I simply turned to universal energy, asked for help, and I do feel somewhat better today. I don't have health insurance right now, so I am not at a state that I feel I need to go to a hospital where they will run MRI, CT, Xrays, bloodwork all to tell me that I need my back adjusted and to take it easy for a while, oh and here's your bill for $30,000.00, thanks.

I bring this up because many would freak out. Granted it's me and not one of the children, but I know me. I've put pressure on my spine, and need an adjustment. I'll get one soon. My point is we cannot lose our peace, we can only model peace and love. One by one, they will want what we have.... open hearts and love for one another.

[9eagle9]

Please, don't talk to me about 'the good ones'. Such discussion is irrelevant and distracting in the face of this issue and it's scope.

Worth repeatng because this sort of thing drives me to psychopathy on it's own. "Some' taxes are good. Liberals are a little better than Conservates (and vice versa)--(not realizing those are emotional sets they use to brainwash a person.) The poor are just angry because they aren't rich (like me!) yada yada. In actuality the poor or rather the Occupy group is raising hell about the notion that its the 99 percents fault that the banks are tanking and the economy is fading. Even the middle class who 'apparently' benefit from the system are the first to bring that sort of yellow concilation into the mix:: "Some" is good. It's all a system and the system is duality in itself. Some benefit from it and more suffer for it.

The snake is a relative symbolism. It's been represented as evil and divine and has its own duality attached to it.

Even in companies that have been created to blend pioneering spirituality and finances can't do it. In fact from my expereince they are more susceptible to that sort of psychopathy so it is a very difficult paradigm. I've observed one such company that I contracted with to distribute web and telephone broadcasts tank out and destroy themselves in 3 short months by not addressing the psychopathy in their own business. They preached against it but didn't do a thing about it lest they were perceived as 'not being spiritual'. So naturally with that allowed to run rampant by ignoring it, profiitablity failed, which meant less could be given, which meant less was given back and to halt this tanking of abundance...they attracted a COO that was clearly a psychopath because in ingoring it within their own company they couldn't recognize it. It took three months for her to destroy the pioneering of spirit and finance and business to a shamble of splinters. The first people that went were the ones who noticed right off the bat she was a psychopath.

The only corporations that I have observed attempting benefical corporations with any sort of success are the small ones that have employees that 'own' the company. Co-opted corporations. The entire workforce owns the company in equal shares


good post Carmody.

[Unified Serenity]

wow, so now loving your countries flag means you're a snake skinned psychopath or controlled by them? They may have taken over America, but there are plenty of us here who still believe in freedom and the right to chart our own coarse, and that is embodied for many in the imagery of the flag.

[Mark]

What about Conscious Capitalism (http://consciouscapitalism.org/) as a paradigm within which psychopaths can be weeded out?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSm6eoUiXHI
Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSm6eoUiXHI

It's here now, people are subscribing to its tenets, even if a psychopath makes it to the top he or she will have to follow the dictates of the system and if they veer from that then they will be immediately visible as what they are. I've participated in a number of these discussions here about psychopaths as it is such an important topic. It is great to see it getting a public airing at higher and higher level, which makes me wonder if a witch hunt of some sort is being intentioned here. If this topic becomes even more prevalent in the mainstream media I'm not sure if that is a good thing, as people generally are not capable of making the determination of who is a natural psychopath, who is a sociopath and who has just taken on characteristics of such just to succeed in this dog eat dog culture, especially corporate culture.

Laura Knight-Jadzyck does indeed speak of ponerology and psychopaths, in fact, she's the one who first turned me on to the problem about 4 years ago. But, for those of you who have read the work she quotes and the conclusions she draws from it, she's talking ultimately about the existence of Organic Portals (OPs) (http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/organic_portals.htm), brings Gurdjieff and Ouspensky into it as well as Casteneda. She's also talking up to 50% of the population who are unable to emote in the same way as those who can, and speaks of the "ensouled" and the "soulless", so it's a lot more extreme than just talking about 1 - 4% who might just have something wrong with their brains.

[9eagle9]

A flag is nothing but a symbol for something. In this case a Corporation known as the United States of America. The state of America is....Corporation not cooperation.

Loving the flag means you are directing an emotional heartset to something that represents a Corporation that is basically intiating a form of tyranny against its employee (citizens).

If you prefer to see the flag as something that represents the organic country, be my guest but that sort of energy may be better spent actually acknowledging the organic country and what it is composed of, which is a bit more profound than symbol of Corporate America. You said it yourself, its an image. An illusion it represents something to you but its not the actual something so it doesn't really matter if one dislikes it or loves it. It depends on how much clarity they have to see through the illusion.

That's how they tie our mind up in illusions, making something that is an image or an illusion important rather than what actually IS important. And that is only because we choose the image, the illusion, over the reality of it.



wow, so now loving your countries flag means you're a snake skinned psychopath or controlled by them? They may have taken over America, but there are plenty of us here who still believe in freedom and the right to chart our own coarse, and that is embodied for many in the imagery of the flag.

[Carmody]

wow, so now loving your countries flag means you're a snake skinned psychopath or controlled by them? They may have taken over America, but there are plenty of us here who still believe in freedom and the right to chart our own coarse, and that is embodied for many in the imagery of the flag.

There is no perfection, that will never happen. All you can do is fight as hard as you can for correction and stabilization... and then into constant vigilance within the scope of being correction.

That which is the problem right now, has tried to eliminate the aspect of capacity for correction ---out of society or thought. One where the parasite drives the body in toto.

Some parasites are in dire need of elimination. For the body suffers too much. humankind must have change in order to not fall into 'perfection', which is stillness, which is a dead end. Some form of pepper is required in order to keep the system moving along. salting of metals makes the alloy, which is stronger.

The parasites have foolishly decided that they are the system in toto, and they are about to find themselves facing a near total extinction. Karma comes for them as well.

As stated (in other places), they cannot escape the rules of this incarnation, no matter how they may feel. As for those half in, half out, does not matter. Involvement automatically implicates (energetic exchange), and the result will be the same.

-or-

Farmer John's twisted humour goes zen... and he posits to you, "Why did the pervert cross the road?"

[Muzz]

Good thread Carmody.

As I see it these people are always gonna be a problem..

"It's almost impossible to rehabilitate the psychopath. In fact, there are studies in the United States, which suggest that rehabilitation in fact makes them worse because it teaches them new social skills they can use to manipulate the people around them more effectively" - Dr John Clarke (http://www.quayappointments.com.au/email/081027/JohnClark.html)

but it is multiplied exponetially, the higher up they go. So ban them from supervisory/management positions.

Much like a blind person cant get a driving licence. Its simple logic, not discrimination. The role of even the lowest supervisor or team leader is to support and help the people in thier team complete thier work efficiently in a way that creates a healthy enviroment for all.

You want promotion? No probs just sit this test. Oops sorry your a psychopath. Back to the shop floor for you.

Deny them the very thing they seek. Power. Force them to live without it.

[Mad Hatter]

Mad Hatter dons his contrarian cap...

What most seem to be agreeing with here is some form of testing to identify and then subsequently deal with a condition the OP identified as Psycopathy. I am not denying the unfortunate influence those suffering such a condition may / are having in various spheres of influence. I do however find certain aspects of the discussion disturbing for what seems to me to be a lack of a long term view.

By lack of long term view I mean that most of the solutions proposed would simply lead to the sort of world portrayed in the film Gattaca and I for one have no interest in contributing anything toward leaving my children a world like that. It is also disheartening to observe the ever pervasive mob rule mentality creeping in as well. So the 99% are going to go and beat the crap out of the 1%. How original... and where, pray tell, in history has that ever proved to be a solution?

I agree that the core problem as identified needs to be addressed but solutions along the lines of changing the paradigm to accomodate all present seem to me to be a bit thin on the ground.

I suppose what I'd like to see is suggestions for re-formatting societal structures in such a manner where people who suffer such a condition are neither advantaged or dis-advanteged by said reformatting.

What say you Avalon...??

[Lisab]

And today James Murdoch has been re-elected as BSkyB chairman even tho a fifth of shareholders voted against his re-appointment - apparently!

[Muzz]

I suppose what I'd like to see is suggestions for re-formatting societal structures in such a manner where people who suffer such a condition are neither advantaged or dis-advanteged by said reformatting.

What say you Avalon...??

Hi Mad Hatter
The condition is a disadvantage to behaving correctly in positions of power. We all have conditions that are either an advantage or not. It dictates to a certain degree what we can do in this world. We are all different phisically and mentally due to our background, diet, health, body we were born with etc. By banning them from certain jobs we are using common sense not discrimination. Again I use the blind driver analogy posted above. We're not being mean, just acting in the best interests of everyone.

[Carmody]

Mad Hatter dons his contrarian cap...

What most seem to be agreeing with here is some form of testing to identify and then subsequently deal with a condition the OP identified as Psycopathy. I am not denying the unfortunate influence those suffering such a condition may / are having in various spheres of influence. I do however find certain aspects of the discussion disturbing for what seems to me to be a lack of a long term view.

By lack of long term view I mean that most of the solutions proposed would simply lead to the sort of world portrayed in the film Gattaca and I for one have no interest in contributing anything toward leaving my children a world like that. It is also disheartening to observe the ever pervasive mob rule mentality creeping in as well. So the 99% are going to go and beat the crap out of the 1%. How original... and where, pray tell, in history has that ever proved to be a solution?

I agree that the core problem as identified needs to be addressed but solutions along the lines of changing the paradigm to accomodate all present seem to me to be a bit thin on the ground.

I suppose what I'd like to see is suggestions for re-formatting societal structures in such a manner where people who suffer such a condition are neither advantaged or dis-advanteged by said reformatting.

What say you Avalon...??

If you offer a leaf of conciliation to that which tears your arm off every time, or kills you, then you must cease to offer a bargain.

Once you have offered your final say on their intractability, then you can offer a bargain.

As Patrick Swazye said in the film Roadhouse, "Be nice....until it's time to not be nice."

I'm not saying that I'm doing such a thing or spearheading such a thing.

However, the writing is on the wall.

I have no problem adding to the list of information regarding potential avenues for current and future blocking of their path. New problems Will arise, that is their nature, But this one has to be closed.

Sociopaths or psychopaths... take, and take, and take, and take, until some component of the system which only desires balance..finally takes a round out of them. If they are lucky, they survive. In the same way a body eliminates a tapeworm, they are left twisting in the wind. The body must finally eliminate, or die.

I've seen this happen in the real world, regarding actual (childhood) bullies...more than once. One ended up in the hospital for two weeks.

In my understanding...The idea and time for asking for balance, is over.

The 'bullies' of humankind failed to understand that the lack of external cause/effect of and in their behaviors WAS the doorway to understanding and balance -itself. The inaction of people WAS the gift of the attempt to seek balance.

[ulli]

One way to stop them is by ensuring they don't get to push any legislation through that gives them even more power.

Another way is to keep informing the public of the scandalous behavior that goes on at the top...via blogs, as MSM no longer seems to be doing a good job.
Then bring the corrupt ones to trial and lock them up. As the mid level people get caught the higher ups go deeper into hiding, but stories about their antics will start leaking out, more and more, and I see that process happening all around.
And when someone who really knows where they hide out can share specific info about their whereabouts on a given day then one can always do a joint psychic exercise. Spray their hide-out with virtual Baygon.

[araucaria]

I heard someone - it might have been John Lash (who sees the problem in terms of archons) - someone of that calibre anyway, who rather shocked me by saying straight out that these people need to be physically taken out.

This is how serious things have become.

I also think of Ben Fulford's position with regard to his friends the assassins, who so far have been made to show restraint but must really be straining at the leash by now.

I am shocked because this is so far from my natural inclination, but however one views the situation, it has somehow got to stop.

[modwiz]

I heard someone - it might have been John Lash (who sees the problem in terms of archons) - someone of that calibre anyway, who rather shocked me by saying straight out that these people need to be physically taken out.

This is how serious things have become.

I also think of Ben Fulford's position with regard to his friends the assassins, who so far have been made to show restraint but must really be straining at the leash by now.

I am shocked because this is so far from my natural inclination, but however one views the situation, it has somehow got to stop.

This has come to to self preservation. It is a serious game. Decent people want no part of this game, but it has been thrust upon them. Just like people do not want mosquitoes biting them or ticks, tapeworms or leeches latching on for a free meal at their expense. When you discover any of these things feeding on you do you appeal to them? You may say, but I am talking about human beings. I say, prove it.

I am against clinical testing. Field tests are more applicable and more fair. Like 9eagle9 stated above the psychopath fired the ones that could see her. This is a glitch that needs attending to. Absolute power. A piece of this set up derives from laziness on the part of the 'foundation' of any power structure.

I am in the middle of a work day and cannot elaborate on this idea more at the moment, but my last statement can be summed up by the saying, 'the price of liberty/freedom, is eternal vigilance'.

John Lash speaks my truth.

More later.

[grapevine]

There are least two where I work - they are everywhere. The best piece of advice I read is to STEER WELL CLEAR, although by the time you recognise them it's usually too late. i haven't read this particular book although I can recommend Puzzling People the labrynth of the psychopath by Thomas Sheridan:

tro2U-cezqo

[Carmody]

Actually we do better. In our workplace...we squeeze them out. not allowed. so..If one them can ruin an entire workplace ...we decided long ago -no can do. me or you kinda thing. keep them...and all of us get damaged. So it's the sociopath, the psychopath.... that gets squeezed out.

I taught my business partner that with his group of sometimes as high as 40 employees..that he is responsible for the stability of 40 families, besides his own and whomever has supported him on that particular side.

Responsibility dictates that the problem must be recognized and eliminated from the workgroup. No matter anyone's feelings on fairness, there is a risk limit that cannot and must not be exceeded, a line that cannot be crossed.

[jorr lundstrom]

Carmody wrote.
As Patrick Swazye said in the film Roadhouse, "Be nice....until it's time to not be nice."

I think we are appoaching that time fast.

araucaria wrote:
I heard someone - it might have been John Lash (who sees the problem in terms of archons) - someone of that calibre anyway, who rather shocked me by saying straight out that these people need to be physically taken out.

This is how serious things have become.



I have had a lot of ticks sucking my blood the last years, twice I have become really ill

from it. I have realized that the ticks dont respond to wot I say to them. They cant, so

Ive have been forced to take action. Soon its gonna be open season on predators, as

thats the only way to get through to those megalomaniac psychopaths.

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt81/sakasvattaja/Babajimbge.jpg

[araucaria]

Thank you Carmody. Of course the problem is that the people we want out are in numbers at the top.

I am thinking of the method to make champagne. When there are dregs in the bottom of the bottle you turn it upside down so that they gather in the neck. Then you freeze the neck, open the bottle and out pop the dregs like a cork.

Sounds like the job is half done.

[grapevine]

Actually we do better. In our workplace...we squeeze them out. not allowed. so..If one them can ruin an entire workplace ...we decided long ago -no can do. me or you kinda thing. keep them...and all of us get damaged. So it's the sociopath, the psychopath.... that gets squeezed out.

I taught my business partner that with his group of sometimes as high as 40 employees..that he is responsible for the stability of 40 families, besides his own and whomever has supported him on that particular side.

Responsibility dictates that the problem must be recognized and eliminated from the workgroup. No matter anyone's feelings on fairness, there is a risk limit that cannot and must not be exceeded, a line that cannot be crossed.

That's wonderful Carmody . . . . but where I work unfortunately it's every man for himself :( !

[Unified Serenity]

I am not sure some of you realize that when you fight with pigs you lose and come up very muddy. These people cannot be defeated by open aggression, it takes tact, and a little, ok a lot of karmic magick which is not that easy to do. I once ran an energetic tick out of town who was putting curses on people then charging them thousands when they came to her for help. It took me over a month to do the working, but when I launched it, she was gone within 48 hours, which means business shut and house vacant and family gone. She has never come back. I always put the caveat though in a working that if I am wrong to not let it prosper and come to no effect. I was very much directed to do that particular working.

[ulli]

I am not sure some of you realize that when you fight with pigs you lose and come up very muddy. These people cannot be defeated by open aggression, it takes tact, and a little, ok a lot of karmic magick which is not that easy to do. I once ran an energetic tick out of town who was putting curses on people then charging them thousands when they came to her for help. It took me over a month to do the working, but when I launched it, she was gone within 48 hours, which means business shut and house vacant and family gone. She has never come back. I always put the caveat though in a working that if I am wrong to not let it prosper and come to no effect. I was very much directed to do that particular working.

I want you as my friend!

[Ernie Nemeth]

In my book, World Peace Manifesto, I write about the transition taking place in the advent of the rise of the Paladin. These are the Warriors amongst us awakened, who have the wherewithall to take decisive and sometimes final or fatal action. Wade Frazier calls them the army of grandmothers. But they will not be just grandmothers. They will be any of the meek in disposition and of a peace-loving nature who find themselves in a position to take action for the good of all. Often it will be of the spur of the moment type action, with no premeditation, just a sudden sure knowing that vthis action is needed, here and now.

Here is how I describe the Paladin:
The warrior of light has impeccable virtue and unassailable honor. Driven by a sense of duty so axiomatic, so firm in dedication to do good, to uphold truth at all times, to come from the highest mores, to champion the cause, to persevere at all costs, and to win the good fight that it is fundamental to the core of the paladin’s being.
There are many silent paladins that will heed when called.
The paladin’s power lies primarily in the light of the simple truth. The secret of its tremendous potency is the fact it cannot be used either for defense or attack. However, it can shine the light of truth wherever it may unimpeded and intact and unimpeachable. The truth dispels the lie just as light unveils the darkness. The truth has the power to transform and transcend all illusion. The truth can heal the ravaging belief in time. The truth is palliative in all respects. The truth is love and joy.
The truth is not enforced nor is it enforceable. It is incapable of any sort of force at all. The truth is gentle and kind and understanding. The truth welcomes and is completely non-judgmental. The truth accepts all for what it is, obviously, literally and by definition. The truth is holographic. The truth respects all life.
A paladin embodies these characteristics instinctively. They are the words to live by and to die defending if necessary. They are the paladin’s marching orders and code of conduct manual.
The aspects of truth are multi-faceted. It is the paladin who clearly shines with the pure light of a single face. Such precise focus illuminates the path to truth with a blinding ferocity. The paladin cannot be deterred.
Herein lies the exception to the rule, as paradoxical as it may seem. For the paladin is merely another simple soul and is human nonetheless. The light of truth can be momentarily eclipsed by unanticipated factors, however improbable. The paladin can be dangerous if needs be or even unintentionally.
Truth and its fair, equitable, unbiased and loving administration is perfectly transferable to all situations and applications. The truth as wielded by the paladin is innocent of motive and unmindful of convention. It is this innocence that ensures peaceful solutions based upon simple truth and nothing more - but nothing less, as well. The truth obliterates any and all attempts at subterfuge because it is the truth.

This is how I envision the change finally coming about.

[modwiz]

In my book, World Peace Manifesto, I write about the transition taking place in the advent of the rise of the Paladin. These are the Warriors amongst us awakened, who have the wherewithall to take decisive and sometimes final or fatal action. Wade Frazier calls them the army of grandmothers. But they will not be just grandmothers. They will be any of the meek in disposition and of a peace-loving nature who find themselves in a position to take action for the good of all. Often it will be of the spur of the moment type action, with no premeditation, just a sudden sure knowing that vthis action is needed, here and now.

Here is how I describe the Paladin:
The warrior of light has impeccable virtue and unassailable honor. Driven by a sense of duty so axiomatic, so firm in dedication to do good, to uphold truth at all times, to come from the highest mores, to champion the cause, to persevere at all costs, and to win the good fight that it is fundamental to the core of the paladin’s being.
There are many silent paladins that will heed when called.
The paladin’s power lies primarily in the light of the simple truth. The secret of its tremendous potency is the fact it cannot be used either for defense or attack. However, it can shine the light of truth wherever it may unimpeded and intact and unimpeachable. The truth dispels the lie just as light unveils the darkness. The truth has the power to transform and transcend all illusion. The truth can heal the ravaging belief in time. The truth is palliative in all respects. The truth is love and joy.
The truth is not enforced nor is it enforceable. It is incapable of any sort of force at all. The truth is gentle and kind and understanding. The truth welcomes and is completely non-judgmental. The truth accepts all for what it is, obviously, literally and by definition. The truth is holographic. The truth respects all life.
A paladin embodies these characteristics instinctively. They are the words to live by and to die defending if necessary. They are the paladin’s marching orders and code of conduct manual.
The aspects of truth are multi-faceted. It is the paladin who clearly shines with the pure light of a single face. Such precise focus illuminates the path to truth with a blinding ferocity. The paladin cannot be deterred.
Herein lies the exception to the rule, as paradoxical as it may seem. For the paladin is merely another simple soul and is human nonetheless. The light of truth can be momentarily eclipsed by unanticipated factors, however improbable. The paladin can be dangerous if needs be or even unintentionally.
Truth and its fair, equitable, unbiased and loving administration is perfectly transferable to all situations and applications. The truth as wielded by the paladin is innocent of motive and unmindful of convention. It is this innocence that ensures peaceful solutions based upon simple truth and nothing more - but nothing less, as well. The truth obliterates any and all attempts at subterfuge because it is the truth.

This is how I envision the change finally coming about.

Your description of the Paladin reminds me a a healthy immune system. Killer t-cells are just another blood component, an immuno-competent one, that is just another citizen of the circulatory system until a threat develops. Then the threat is dealt with/eliminated and all returns to normal. The body and its defense system demonstrates healthy self preservation that is in no way militant or predatory. An excellent model for societal health, IMO.

[Calz]

Actually we do better. In our workplace...we squeeze them out. not allowed. so..If one them can ruin an entire workplace ...we decided long ago -no can do. me or you kinda thing. keep them...and all of us get damaged. So it's the sociopath, the psychopath.... that gets squeezed out.

I taught my business partner that with his group of sometimes as high as 40 employees..that he is responsible for the stability of 40 families, besides his own and whomever has supported him on that particular side.

Responsibility dictates that the problem must be recognized and eliminated from the workgroup. No matter anyone's feelings on fairness, there is a risk limit that cannot and must not be exceeded, a line that cannot be crossed.

Where do we apply??? :)

[Heyoka_11]

It always starts at the grass roots level

Having loaned Mad Hatter's contrarian cap, I too would like to offer an alternative point of view.

To suggest that we can weed these individuals out by implementing a "grass roots level" style of campaign aimed at their removal, or that testing for a genetic marker will successfully identity these individuals in the first place, fails somewhat IMO, to fully address the phenomena of psychopathic behaviour.

Whilst the suggestion that psychopathy may be a genetic disorder is new to me (having previously understood it to be a birth defect affecting the orbital frontal cortex), one must also bear in mind that this is a behaviourial tendency that can also be either learned, or in the right environment, adopted, by any one of us, as what we are dealing with here is life at the bottom of Mazlow's Pyramid of Hierarchy. Here, our most basic needs in life are our only priority; air, food, water, shelter, sleep and sex according to the diagram below (not entirely accurate in my opinion, but close enough). This is where we all start in life, in our infancy, and no matter how high we may rise toward the self actualisation at the pyramid's capstone, life can easily send us tumbling back down to the foundation stone. So, I wish to posit that this is not a case of "us and them", where testing for a perticular genetic marker will actually make a skerrick of difference. It is my opinion that the majority of those exhibiting psychopathic tendencies actually fall into the latter category, where it is an adopted modus operandi. Psychopathic tendencies can also be instilled in a child in even an affluent home environment, where although basic physiological needs may be met, a dysfunctional family structure may fail to meet the most basic psychological needs of the child; this in turn can leave the child trapped in a survival mode, where psychopathic tendencies tends to flourish.

11643

Mazlow's Pyramid of Hierarchy

11644

Mazlow's Hierarchy of Robot (Psychopath) Needs

Further, the notion that these people can be flushed out from the bottom up, I consider fundamentaly flawed; akin to ill-informed reference to "the powers that were". It must be remembered that this sub (less than fully actualised) human behaviour extends to the highest levels within the powers that rule this planet. It is no different to the ruthless corporate executive that rises to a position of power within any organisation. For example, consider a successful business, embracing sound moral principle as a key component of it's functioning; enter the workplace psychopath, at any level. This person will often "kiss up, and kick down" until they are elevated to a position where they are able to influence decisions in regards to staff placement. They will then be hell bent on ensuring that only those that are willing to submit to and support them will occupy positions which are subordinate to their own; this in effect creates the support structure on which they stand. They will continue to impress their superiors, rising through the ranks, often at a rapid rate, until they are finally able to oust the CEO. By this time, the board of management will likely be comprised of like minded individuals, some of whom no doubt would have adopted this behaviour in an effort to sustain their employment. Meanwhile, the board will always be able to justify their behavior, as they were only "acting in the best interest of shareholders". Once you have a sufficient number of psychopathics within an organisation, a grass roots campaign will likely fail, as any attempt to flush out a dysfunctional individual from amongst the lower ranks, will likely be met by resistance from management, as they may well think highly of this person; remember they do "kiss up". Consider too, that even if a grass roots campaign were to kick off as a result of growing public recognition of the problem, and even if that campaign were to eventually reach those that actually hold positions within "the powers that be", You will not topple them, as they are at the top. Any attempt to do so would likely elecit a response akin to that of a cornered animal, and we would all likely end up paying the ultimate price for that. This would be no different to a "sore loser", who, realising that the game is almost up, and they just lost their blue chip real estate, slams the Monopoly board shut and storms off. If they're not going to win, then nobody gets to play.

In my experience, many common or garden psychopaths are simply cowards, who once the support structure (supportive peers and subordinates) is removed, will oftentimes quickly vanish from sight. One method I have used in removing this supportive structure is public humiliation. I recently toppled a member of lower management in a Fortune 500 company using the "CC" function when emailing; gather enough evidence to convict the individual, distribute it to enough people of influence, and he was back in his box in a flash, where he has stayed for three months now. The most efficient method I know of is to bring a weight crashing down on their heads from their superiors. To a psychopath, this is a akin to hell itself, but requires that a move is made against them prior to their having been elevated too high up the ladder.

I would also like to bring your attention the notion that whether we are talking about some remorseless drunk driver (chemically induced psychopathy) who just killed someone in a traffic accident, or a ruthless corpless executive, who just managed to strip a number of pensioners of their life savings, we are dealing with a similar pattern of behaviour;that being an inability to empathise with one's victims. Same or similar behaviour on a different scale. In the case of the drunk, would we not make an attempt to rehabilitate them? This can be achieved by meeting with the family of the deceased; I have seen this work. If I am correct, then instead of adopting a punitive, or worse, approach to the rehabilitation of grand scale psychopaths, perhaps we should consider a similar approach to that used for the drunk driver. If that sounds too hard, then I say too bad. What are supposed to do? Chemical alteration of brain function, incarceration? It does not matter whether they are victims of a genetic abnormality, a birth defect affecting the frontal cortex or dysfunction encountered with the family home or workplace; in all cases, they are victims; probably some of the saddest victims on the face of the planet, as along with their inablilty to empathise, comes an inability to experience joy.

Whilst I have a hatred for the outcome of psychopathic behaviour, and attempt to educate those in the workplace as to the phenomenas existence, I feel no hatred toward the initial victims themselves, the psychopaths. For them, I have only an overwhelming sense of sorrow.

Here is the abstact of an interview with Adrian Raine from the Department of Criminology at the University of Pennsylvania, originally broadcast on the ABC Radio's "The Science Show", on the 15th of October, 2011.

A region of the brain known as the orbital frontal cortex regulates emotion. But there's a gender difference with men having a smaller volume. This helps explain why men commit more crime than women. The volume of the amygdala is important for the generation of emotions. White collar criminals have an advantage due to their brain volumes and wiring. Psychopaths show a reduction in the functioning of the amygdala. They have reduced emotional reaction. So why do we punish psychopaths harshly? They didn't ask to have smaller amygdalas and reduced emotional response to their actions. Adrian Raine asks if psychopaths lack fear, how useful is punishment?

It has traditionally been thought that psychopaths are all bad. Kevin Dutton says psychopaths can be fearless, ruthless, amoral and devious while still being charming, charismatic and persuasive. He says psychopaths are very good at persuasion due to a trait known as cold empathy. Our personalities are a mixture of elements with some turned up, and others turned down. There are jobs where high scores on the psychopathic spectrum can be advantageous, such as some areas of intricate, high risk surgery.


If you would like to read the entire transcript, here is the address:


http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/scienceshow/the-psychopath-in-us-all/3591116

Cheers,

Tony.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/misc/pencil.png

[Carmody]

Sorry Tony.

No disempowerment today.


The more people that are aware of tactics and potentials, the merrier.

I'm reminded of the second Predator film.

The predator was being chased by the police and he ran through an apartment building, by punching through walls. Some family was watching TV and had their lives torn apart and were forced to understand the reality of the Predators, via this act of the predator running through their living room walls.

Thus those people, from then on, knew the truth, even though the people across the hall could never be convinced about anything other than a big noise.

It's won.... one person at a time. until it reaches a critical mass.

And in that, the ground level is critical.

I'm not sure you understand the question at hand.

the question and answer is that the human edifice cannot tolerate this level of intrusion by the proffered parasite any more.

we are here (on earth) to engage and solve problems.

Turning their atmosphere back on them is a perfect karmic trick. The difference between good and evil is the empathic imperative behind the act and the way it is handled.

i never said that I failed to feel sorrow for that particular genetic imperative, but that I can save it for later.


And I will NOT breach an imperative to stop it by getting into complex considerations that serve no purpose at this point, other than to break up a consolidation of effort and directive.. and disempower.

basically, hold your position, remember your place in the conversation, everyone lean in this direction for a bit... then go back to the discussion of the intricacies and bits if -you desire.

Before that discussion and breakdown comes, in this linear time, the act must take place.

And the act, is dissemination of the potential for a workable answer -to the dilemma at hand.

I'm flatly not interested in conversations of disempowerment.

The discussion at hand, is.... if we are really going to have 7 billion players of the game on this orb -or not. Anything else is just window dressing.

[modwiz]

It always starts at the grass roots level

Having loaned Mad Hatter's contrarian cap, I too would like to offer an alternative point of view.

To suggest that we can weed these individuals out by implementing a "grass roots level" style of campaign aimed at their removal, or that testing for a genetic marker will successfully identity these individuals in the first place, fails somewhat IMO, to fully address the phenomena of psychopathic behaviour.

Whilst the suggestion that psychopathy may be a genetic disorder is new to me (having previously understood it to be a birth defect affecting the orbital frontal cortex), one must also bear in mind that this is a behaviourial tendency that can also be either learned, or in the right environment, adopted, by any one of us, as what we are dealing with here is life at the bottom of Mazlow's Pyramid of Hierarchy. Here, our most basic needs in life are our only priority; air, food, water, shelter, sleep and sex according to the diagram below (not entirely accurate in my opinion, but close enough). This is where we all start in life, in our infancy, and no matter how high we may rise toward the self actualisation at the pyramid's capstone, life can easily send us tumbling back down to the foundation stone. So, I wish to posit that this is not a case of "us and them", where testing for a perticular genetic marker will actually make a skerrick of difference. It is my opinion that the majority of those exhibiting psychopathic tendencies actually fall into the latter category, where it is an adopted modus operandi. Psychopathic tendencies can also be instilled in a child in even an affluent home environment, where although basic physiological needs may be met, a dysfunctional family structure may fail to meet the most basic psychological needs of the child; this in turn can leave the child trapped in a survival mode, where psychopathic tendencies tends to flourish.

11643

Mazlow's Pyramid of Hierarchy

11644

Mazlow's Hierarchy of Robot (Psychopath) Needs

Further, the notion that these people can be flushed out from the bottom up, I consider fundamentaly flawed; akin to ill-informed reference to "the powers that were". It must be remembered that this sub (less than fully actualised) human behaviour extends to the highest levels within the powers that rule this planet. It is no different to the ruthless corporate executive that rises to a position of power within any organisation. For example, consider a successful business, embracing sound moral principle as a key component of it's functioning; enter the workplace psychopath, at any level. This person will often "kiss up, and kick down" until they are elevated to a position where they are able to influence decisions in regards to staff placement. They will then be hell bent on ensuring that only those that are willing to submit to and support them will occupy positions which are subordinate to their own; this in effect creates the support structure on which they stand. They will continue to impress their superiors, rising through the ranks, often at a rapid rate, until they are finally able to oust the CEO. By this time, the board of management will likely be comprised of like minded individuals, some of whom no doubt would have adopted this behaviour in an effort to sustain their employment. Meanwhile, the board will always be able to justify their behavior, as they were only "acting in the best interest of shareholders". Once you have a sufficient number of psychopathics within an organisation, a grass roots campaign will likely fail, as any attempt to flush out a dysfunctional individual from amongst the lower ranks, will likely be met by resistance from management, as they may well think highly of this person; remember they do "kiss up". Consider too, that even if a grass roots campaign were to kick off as a result of growing public recognition of the problem, and even if that campaign were to eventually reach those that actually hold positions within "the powers that be", You will not topple them, as they are at the top. Any attempt to do so would likely elecit a response akin to that of a cornered animal, and we would all likely end up paying the ultimate price for that. This would be no different to a "sore loser", who, realising that the game is almost up, and they just lost their blue chip real estate, slams the Monopoly board shut and storms off. If they're not going to win, then nobody gets to play.

In my experience, many common or garden psychopaths are simply cowards, who once the support structure (supportive peers and subordinates) is removed, will oftentimes quickly vanish from sight. One method I have used in removing this supportive structure is public humiliation. I recently toppled a member of lower management in a Fortune 500 company using the "CC" function when emailing; gather enough evidence to convict the individual, distribute it to enough people of influence, and he was back in his box in a flash, where he has stayed for three months now. The most efficient method I know of is to bring a weight crashing down on their heads from their superiors. To a psychopath, this is a akin to hell itself, but requires that a move is made against them prior to their having been elevated too high up the ladder.

I would also like to bring your attention the notion that whether we are talking about some remorseless drunk driver (chemically induced psychopathy) who just killed someone in a traffic accident, or a ruthless corpless executive, who just managed to strip a number of pensioners of their life savings, we are dealing with a similar pattern of behaviour;that being an inability to empathise with one's victims. Same or similar behaviour on a different scale. In the case of the drunk, would we not make an attempt to rehabilitate them? This can be achieved by meeting with the family of the deceased; I have seen this work. If I am correct, then instead of adopting a punitive, or worse, approach to the rehabilitation of grand scale psychopaths, perhaps we should consider a similar approach to that used for the drunk driver. If that sounds too hard, then I say too bad. What are supposed to do? Chemical alteration of brain function, incarceration? It does not matter whether they are victims of a genetic abnormality, a birth defect affecting the frontal cortex or dysfunction encountered with the family home or workplace; in all cases, they are victims; probably some of the saddest victims on the face of the planet, as along with their inablilty to empathise, comes an inability to experience joy.

Whilst I have a hatred for the outcome of psychopathic behaviour, and attempt to educate those in the workplace as to the phenomenas existence, I feel no hated toward the initial victims themselves, the psychopaths. For them, I have only an overwhelming sense of sorrow.

Here is the abstact of an interview with Adrian Raine from the Department of Criminology at the University of Pennsylvania, originally broadcast on the ABC Radio's "The Science Show", on the 15th of October, 2011.

A region of the brain known as the orbital frontal cortex regulates emotion. But there's a gender difference with men having a smaller volume. This helps explain why men commit more crime than women. The volume of the amygdala is important for the generation of emotions. White collar criminals have an advantage due to their brain volumes and wiring. Psychopaths show a reduction in the functioning of the amygdala. They have reduced emotional reaction. So why do we punish psychopaths harshly? They didn't ask to have smaller amygdalas and reduced emotional response to their actions. Adrian Raine asks if psychopaths lack fear, how useful is punishment?

It has traditionally been thought that psychopaths are all bad. Kevin Dutton says psychopaths can be fearless, ruthless, amoral and devious while still being charming, charismatic and persuasive. He says psychopaths are very good at persuasion due to a trait known as cold empathy. Our personalities are a mixture of elements with some turned up, and others turned down. There are jobs where high scores on the psychopathic spectrum can be advantageous, such as some areas of intricate, high risk surgery.


If you would like to read the entire transcript, here is the address:


http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/scienceshow/the-psychopath-in-us-all/3591116

Cheers,

Tony.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/misc/pencil.png

Carmody, excellent response to this post. Now my turn at this wheel.

Tony, your effort is appreciated but this may not be received well by you, or some others. I hope to be wrong.

If I had to sum up the mind set presented in the above post I would call it, Stockholm Syndrome. This term seems an apt reply for the quasi-scientific treatise above. I referred to the Stockholm Syndrome because it is a mental illness, usually temporary?' whereby the victim identifies and even sympathizes with their captor.

I remember the word punishment being used. Punishment is a concept I dropped some time after somebody stopped punishing me. Punishment is the spiritual equivalent of still pooping your pants.
When I pull a tick off of an animal and kill it I am not punishing it. I am ridding the world of it and the parasitical behavior it brings. Similarly I do not punish tapeworms or other 'freeloaders'. Punishment comes from inner pain of the punisher in an effort to rid themselves of their own inner demons. It is often a form of transference/projection. Putting someone in prison is a form of self defense primarily and, perhaps, a chance for someone to get some serious downtime for inner reflection while removed from the disorienting push and shove of the world. Facilitation of the latter scenario would require a safe environment for the imprisoned or it is nothing more than sending someone to hell, or punishment.

I do not much follow the genetic/chemical/brain damage construct and am more aligned with possession by a virus type of entity scenario. The Archontic concept posited by Gnostics and modern proponents such as John Lash are what my perceptions bring me. The actual words or verbiage used for these disincarnate entities is not as important as knowing of their existence and behavior as pertains to interactions with our species. The presence/possession of these energies in a human produces certain chemical and physical brain changes that have been identified. Congenital brain damage may predispose a human to it but it is not the causal aspect. The same thing may be said for genetics and once a body is 'infected' DNA changes will result and be found.

The enormity of this problem cannot be overstated. A quick look around the world and the mess it is in informs us of the severity of the problem. This is beyond 'them' just making our lives miserable. They are doing the best they can to hurt the living Earth, our Mother Gaia.
Take a look down the timeline at our 'past' and you see this has been going on for a long time. Too long.

Take a look at the colored pyramid above and laugh because it is a joke. A totally fake construct that has no semblance of our spiritual nature and who/what we really are. It is typical scientific gibberish put into nice colors and words for our visual proclivities. A form of optical hypnosis akin to a magicians prestidigitation, meant only to distract. It seems to posit a clear charting of the problem to minds that will usually passively accept it without question. The easy thing to do. We are a mentally lazy species and that may be the biggest part of our problem. Facing this problem and the solutions will require some thought. Sympathy is the easy way out and no solution at all. Surmounting the huge denial of this problem is an emotional hurdle that will require us making a quantum leap into spiritual maturity and we don't have many examples in our culture. The psychopaths carefully keep them from view or simply kill them.

Houston, we have a problem. We better get to it.

I know more may be required of me further down the unfolding of this thread. I do hope to see lots of others getting it and making that less of a necessity.

[Flash]

Modwiz, contamination by viruses or bacteria can run into family trees, therefore looking like being genetic. More, viruses can change the genetic codes of cells and therefore the transmission through generations becomes truly genetic. If it is viral though, reversal may be possible when science will be advanced enough. imho

[Flash]

A strange question for you Carmody: we had a thread on Avalon about psychopaths about 11 months ago. It went on for a while, then slowly died with the expatriation of its owner.

Why take it up now? I do wholly agree that taking care of the problem is a planet wide emergency, but why did you pick it up and ran with an interventionist flavor now?

Anything to do with anything, such as astrology, inspiration, foresight clearer at this time, visions, name it.

Thanks in advance for the explanations.

[modwiz]

My answer for you, and apologies for opining unbidden, Flash, is, there was smoke and now there is fire. More like a conflagration. They are moving to consume the world and its abilities to mount a coherent and powerfully effective act of planetary hygiene. Asking this question makes me think you are not seeing what some of us see. That is what it is, no judgement. It would be spiritually unconscionable for me to not join Carmody in sounding the clarion call along with an effort to rally the troops in a dialogue for solutions. It would also be me not acting in concert with my Mother, Gaia, in standing up for my home, Her, and with Her, against a predator and infection that threatens those of us who were meant to be here and for whom the Dream is being dreamed. The nightmare is caused by actors alien and unwelcome here.

[modwiz]

Modwiz, contamination by viruses or bacteria can run into family trees, therefore looking like being genetic. More, viruses can change the genetic codes of cells and therefore the transmission through generations becomes truly genetic. If it is viral though, reversal may be possible when science will be advanced enough. imho

I do believe these forces have done their best to move into our genetics and create situations that make their 'involvement' easier for them. Certain families and other lifestreams have been targeted as obviated from the trail of psychopathy left in their wake.

[Carmody]

A strange question for you Carmody: we had a thread on Avalon about psychopaths about 11 months ago. It went on for a while, then slowly died with the expatriation of its owner.

Why take it up now? I do wholly agree that taking care of the problem is a planet wide emergency, but why did you pick it up and ran with an interventionist flavor now?

Anything to do with anything, such as astrology, inspiration, foresight clearer at this time, visions, name it.

Thanks in advance for the explanations.

Non personal generic --global consciousness rising --evidenced by popular media involvement of and in the topic. Common social media is the source of the originating article, thus the beginnings of the actual moment of the invocation of the imperative within the public -- a reflection the rising awareness.

Godspeed.

The view attempted to be brought to the table, in order to shape a potential motion in the public, must be of an early nature, with respect to timing.

Seeding.

Simplicity is key.

when I was 13 I began analysis of methodology of seeding, by testing such out on the world at large. My tests necessarily took time to show fruit, but fruit they did indeed bear. (recognition of depth of travel and impact was illustrated at age 20, 7 years deep)

The first time I did this, in reality, was at age 4, approximately. I recognized it and did it back then. I saw it for what it was, back then. it was done with empathy and caring, from a position of being damaged by forms of animalism, emotionalism, and other childish behaviors.

So yes, I first consciously engaged in fixing the self, a situation, and another at age 4.

It started with me, and achieving clarity in the given situation, and applying the right solution to the given problem. A solution that created a greater and more caring humanity. Not less.

The thing (force, etc) that we deal with in this thread came for me, came for us...right after that.

And tore my achievement to pieces.

I've been at this.... for a very long time.

[Calz]

... there was smoke and now there is fire.

Starting to do testing at the grassroots level sounds like a plan.

Is there yet time for that approach???

[modwiz]

... there was smoke and now there is fire.

Starting to do testing at the grassroots level sounds like a plan.

Is there yet time for that approach???

If we can move at the speed of mind, there is.

[Calz]

... there was smoke and now there is fire.

Starting to do testing at the grassroots level sounds like a plan.

Is there yet time for that approach???

If we can move at the speed of mind, there is.

I hope you are right.

The snakes are on the move as well ... raising the stakes as it were to act on the physical level. How long before such a move will be labeled as homegrown terrorism???

_________________


Senate Rejects Amendment to ‘Indefinite Detention’ Bill

Section 1031 would strip Americans of all constitutional rights if they are declared ‘terrorists’

Paul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
Tuesday, November 29, 2011

The Senate has overwhelmingly voted down an amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act that would have provided oversight to check the military’s power to arrest U.S. citizens as suspected terrorists on American soil and detain them indefinitely without trial.


“The Senate soundly defeated a move to strip out controversial language requiring mandatory detention of some terror suspects, voting it down 61 to 37 and escalating a fight with the Obama administration over the future course of the war on terror,” reports the National Journal.

The amendment, introduced by Colorado Senator Mark Udall, was an attempt to weaken Section 1031 of the NDAA bill, which would basically turn the entire “homeland” into a battlefield and allow the military to arrest individuals accused of being terrorists and detain them indefinitely without trial. Americans would be stripped of all constitutional rights and posse comitatus would cease to exist.

Confusion surrounding whether or not the bill would apply to American citizens was firmly put to bed by Republican Congressman Justin Amash yesterday, when he pointed out that the language clearly gives the executive branch the power of discretion to decide who is a terrorist, whether they are a U.S. citizen or not.

Amash described the ‘indefinite detention’ provision of the bill as “one of the most anti-liberty pieces of legislation of our lifetime.”

Senator Rand Paul has introduced a separate amendment that strikes Section 1031 from the bill altogether, but seeing as the Senate firmly rejected Udall’s watered down version, it’s unlikely Paul’s will be met sympathetically.

Although President Obama has threatened to veto the bill, political observers aren’t convinced that he will do so.

“He has said he will. Whether he will is a difficult question because, politically, it’s difficult to veto a defense spending bill that 680 pages long and includes authorization to spend on a whole range of military programs,” Daphne Eviatar, Senior Associate, Human Rights First’s Law and Security Program, told Democracy Now.

Eviatar’s organization has which has obtained signatures from 26 retired military leaders urging the Senate to vote down the legislation if the ‘indefinite detention’ provision is not removed.

“This would be the first time since the McCarthy era that the United States Congress has tried to do this,” warned Eviatar. “In the 1950’s, that was actually repealed before it was ever used. In this case have seen the administration very eagerly hold people without trial for 10 plus years in military detention, so there’s no reason to believe they wouldn’t continue to do that here. So we’re talking about indefinite military detention of U.S. citizens, of lawful U.S. residents as well as of people abroad.”


http://www.infowars.com/senate-rejects-amendment-to-indefinite-detention-bill/

[modwiz]

... there was smoke and now there is fire.

Starting to do testing at the grassroots level sounds like a plan.

Is there yet time for that approach???

If we can move at the speed of mind, there is.

I hope you are right.

The snakes are on the move as well ... raising the stakes as it were to act on the physical level. How long before such a move will be labeled as homegrown terrorism???

_________________


Senate Rejects Amendment to ‘Indefinite Detention’ Bill

Section 1031 would strip Americans of all constitutional rights if they are declared ‘terrorists’

Paul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
Tuesday, November 29, 2011

The Senate has overwhelmingly voted down an amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act that would have provided oversight to check the military’s power to arrest U.S. citizens as suspected terrorists on American soil and detain them indefinitely without trial.


“The Senate soundly defeated a move to strip out controversial language requiring mandatory detention of some terror suspects, voting it down 61 to 37 and escalating a fight with the Obama administration over the future course of the war on terror,” reports the National Journal.

The amendment, introduced by Colorado Senator Mark Udall, was an attempt to weaken Section 1031 of the NDAA bill, which would basically turn the entire “homeland” into a battlefield and allow the military to arrest individuals accused of being terrorists and detain them indefinitely without trial. Americans would be stripped of all constitutional rights and posse comitatus would cease to exist.

Confusion surrounding whether or not the bill would apply to American citizens was firmly put to bed by Republican Congressman Justin Amash yesterday, when he pointed out that the language clearly gives the executive branch the power of discretion to decide who is a terrorist, whether they are a U.S. citizen or not.

Amash described the ‘indefinite detention’ provision of the bill as “one of the most anti-liberty pieces of legislation of our lifetime.”

Senator Rand Paul has introduced a separate amendment that strikes Section 1031 from the bill altogether, but seeing as the Senate firmly rejected Udall’s watered down version, it’s unlikely Paul’s will be met sympathetically.

Although President Obama has threatened to veto the bill, political observers aren’t convinced that he will do so.

“He has said he will. Whether he will is a difficult question because, politically, it’s difficult to veto a defense spending bill that 680 pages long and includes authorization to spend on a whole range of military programs,” Daphne Eviatar, Senior Associate, Human Rights First’s Law and Security Program, told Democracy Now.

Eviatar’s organization has which has obtained signatures from 26 retired military leaders urging the Senate to vote down the legislation if the ‘indefinite detention’ provision is not removed.

“This would be the first time since the McCarthy era that the United States Congress has tried to do this,” warned Eviatar. “In the 1950’s, that was actually repealed before it was ever used. In this case have seen the administration very eagerly hold people without trial for 10 plus years in military detention, so there’s no reason to believe they wouldn’t continue to do that here. So we’re talking about indefinite military detention of U.S. citizens, of lawful U.S. residents as well as of people abroad.”


http://www.infowars.com/senate-rejects-amendment-to-indefinite-detention-bill/

Thanks for asking the question that needs asking. How long? About as long as you have have when a house begins to burn down. That is, not enough time to ask questions about how long, only about what are we going to do about it.

Am I making any sense?

[Calz]

Thanks for asking the question that needs asking. How long? About as long as you have have when a house begins to burn down. That is, not enough time to ask questions about how long, only about what are we going to do about it.

Am I making any sense?

Certainly and I understand "time" can be worked with (around) in some manner on some levels.

However, in terms of a PHYSICAL implementation of testing (genetic or otherwise) starting by going through local government ... that is where I raise the "is there time" question.



Section 1031 would strip Americans of all constitutional rights if they are declared ‘terrorists’


Sounds like the witch trials all over again eh???

[Flash]

Thank you Carmody for your answer. I was just wondering about the seeding here, on Avalon. But your answer satisfies my curiosity anyhow. My questions were not about not being aware, but about why would this precise timing be more favourable for seeding and awareness.


It started with me, and achieving clarity in the given situation, and applying the right solution to the given problem. A solution that created a greater and more caring humanity. Not less.

The thing (force, etc) that we deal with in this thread came for me, came for us...right after that.

And tore my achievement to pieces.



I agree, these forces have been at us for a while and they are frantically active right now. And choices have to be made. Seeding should be fast and furious to get people to react and chose, right about now. imho

Modwiz, I have been at it too for many many years, in my own ways, and I am very conscious of what it entails on some levels (probably not all of them though, too complex). I love humanity and the planet itself.

I have been describing manipulation and how to recognize it to thousands locally up to now, for at least the last 7 years - I am just going further in my learning process about it. The seeding part was quite overwhelming at times for me. Really glad to have international help. ;)

However, there is a major change in me with this thread: there is no mushy way to go anylonger, Carmody's words have hit inside, do and act as for the emergency it is and people will blindly follow. Inner iron will is needed at this time with a compassionate heart for those not able to chose, imho.

[modwiz]

Thanks for asking the question that needs asking. How long? About as long as you have have when a house begins to burn down. That is, not enough time to ask questions about how long, only about what are we going to do about it.

Am I making any sense?

Certainly and I understand "time" can be worked with (around) in some manner on some levels.

However, in terms of a PHYSICAL implementation of testing (genetic or otherwise) starting by going through local government ... that is where I raise the "is there time" question.



Section 1031 would strip Americans of all constitutional rights if they are declared ‘terrorists’


Sounds like the witch trials all over again eh???

Absolutely. As it should. It is the same group doing the accusing and finger pointing. The house is on fire and we have a parasite problem.

[modwiz]

Thanks for asking the question that needs asking. How long? About as long as you have have when a house begins to burn down. That is, not enough time to ask questions about how long, only about what are we going to do about it.

Am I making any sense?

Certainly and I understand "time" can be worked with (around) in some manner on some levels.

However, in terms of a PHYSICAL implementation of testing (genetic or otherwise) starting by going through local government ... that is where I raise the "is there time" question.



Section 1031 would strip Americans of all constitutional rights if they are declared ‘terrorists’


Sounds like the witch trials all over again eh???

I think the testing part is wholly unnecessary. You address the obvious and the hidden ones will expose themselves via the Ghandi progression I posted somewhere last night. I do not have it handy right now. It is the ignore you, ridicule you, fight you, then succumb thingy.

That is how I see it being very timely. Field tests are the only ones that matter. You can either act like a decent human or no. Tests are invented and given by people who don't like to work for living. Conceiving and wanting to test somebody is suspicious behavior, lol.

[Cjay]

The more I think about this, the more I realise we are at least a few thousand years beyond the point of being nice to these psychopaths. These evil bastards have been getting away with murdering, maiming, poisoning and starving hundreds of millions of people, stealing, defrauding, manipulating, etc., etc., throughout history. Let's identify and catch every last one of them, stip them of all their proceeds of crime, lock them in prisons and throw away the keys.

Maybe we can be nice again after we have completely reset/rebalanced society with new rules and new paradigms, when the interests of 99% of the world's population and the Earth itself are being properly protected for at least a century.

Obviously, this is a huge task, considering that 1% of the population amounts to 70 million psychopaths.

[Calz]

Another sampling of the psychopath rollout (just a snippet):

_________________


Globalists purchase millions of toxic HPV vaccines for girls in third world

Ethan Huff
Infowars.com
November 29, 2011

At its recent board meeting in Bangladesh, the GAVI Alliance, formerly known as the Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunizations, announced plans to bring the deadly human papillomavirus (HPV) vaccines Gardasil (Merck & Co.) and Cervarix (GlaxoSmithKline) into the third world. A pro-vaccination group backed by the World Bank, UNICEF, the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, and the vaccine industry, GAVI’s stated goal is to vaccinate 240 million children by 2015.

As many as two million women and girls in nine unidentified developing countries could soon receive one of the two HPV vaccines, even though HPV is potentially linked to only one percent, of all cervical cancers, according to some reports ...

story at:

http://www.infowars.com/globalists-purchase-millions-of-toxic-hpv-vaccines-for-girls-in-third-world/

[modwiz]

Another sampling of the psychopath rollout (just a snippet):

_________________


Globalists purchase millions of toxic HPV vaccines for girls in third world

Ethan Huff
Infowars.com
November 29, 2011

At its recent board meeting in Bangladesh, the GAVI Alliance, formerly known as the Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunizations, announced plans to bring the deadly human papillomavirus (HPV) vaccines Gardasil (Merck & Co.) and Cervarix (GlaxoSmithKline) into the third world. A pro-vaccination group backed by the World Bank, UNICEF, the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, and the vaccine industry, GAVI’s stated goal is to vaccinate 240 million children by 2015.

As many as two million women and girls in nine unidentified developing countries could soon receive one of the two HPV vaccines, even though HPV is potentially linked to only one percent, of all cervical cancers, according to some reports ...

story at:

http://www.infowars.com/globalists-purchase-millions-of-toxic-hpv-vaccines-for-girls-in-third-world/

I think the answer is to just reason with them. :boom::croc::lie: :dizzy:

Please see my previous posts for context.

[modwiz]

Smiley Concept Art: Reasoning with Psycopaths

:croc: :croc: :croc: :croc:

[araucaria]

I would agree that there are many bandwaggoners who are just playing the system, and that when that system is changed, they will doubtless continue playing the system until this initially self-interested approach is turned into something else.

The question is how to decapitate the present system. The thing about the negative approach is that it is always hierarchical - everyone has superiors whose method (take it out on subordinates) they copy. Hence we have governments, secret governments, ETs, more ETS: you never get to the top.

The positive approach on the other hand is in a sense 'topless' - we are all on a par, all grass-roots people. So, in some ways counter-intuitively, the answer has to come from the grass-roots.

This I think is the real symbolism of the pyramid: the capstone is not the attainment of some kind of perfection. They are trying to place a capstone to seal things off, against what we want, i.e. an open system.

[Calz]

David Icke often puts forth the image of a pyramid structure where you take out part of the base and the whole structure collapses.

I agree completely regarding trying to trace just exactly where the "top" of the structure is (how far *up* the rabbit hole to go???)

[Heyoka_11]

Tony, your effort is appreciated but this may not be received well by you, or some others. I hope to be wrong.

G'day Modwiz,

Above all else, you intended no offence, and none was taken :)

I am followlng this thread with great interest, and simply wished to put forward an alternative point of view.

All the Best,

Tony.

[araucaria]

Just as the pyramid has no top, its base can be anywhere - wherever one happens to be operating.

If you are at the top yourself, work on the top. We are not, so we make our effort right here where we are.

We are not alone!

[ViralSpiral]

I am not sure some of you realize that when you fight with pigs you lose and come up very muddy. These people cannot be defeated by open aggression, it takes tact, and a little, ok a lot of karmic magick which is not that easy to do. I once ran an energetic tick out of town who was putting curses on people then charging them thousands when they came to her for help. It took me over a month to do the working, but when I launched it, she was gone within 48 hours, which means business shut and house vacant and family gone. She has never come back. I always put the caveat though in a working that if I am wrong to not let it prosper and come to no effect. I was very much directed to do that particular working.


This made me chuckle and reminded of my own attempt at "exorcism".

My company had employed a new copywriter. As her office was not ready, she was given mine (unbeknownst to me) whilst I was on an overseas trip. Upon my return, my first introduction to her, was at my desk. It had been rearranged and the plant on it, removed. I felt nauseous and had the urge to punch her! ;)

Speechless, I dropped my briefcase, turned around and walked, zombie-like, to the kitchen to make tea. I knew that I had to investigate/rationalise my severe judgement, and decided not to say a word to anyone. Instead I brought crystals to work, and made a semi-circle around my desk with them, much to the amusement and ridicule of my colleagues. I cared less. Some did ask and agreed that she had very dark energy. Her eyes soul-less. She never came into my office again. She did confront me to ask why I ignored her. All I said was: Its an energy thing. She reported me. Called me a Nazi. *guffaw*

I told our HR manager that she wouldn't last her 3 month probation period.

She didn't.

Of course it was not me that did this as I believe that collectively the awake/aware in the company weeded her out, but I felt better and, I became known as the crystal-woowoo-chick. A hat I wear gladly :)

Which begs of Modwiz - if intuition and intention are the teachers, does it really matter where the crystals are placed? There are many ways to reach the destination, n'est pas?

Was she a psychopath? I don't know. I think so. Wanted to share......

[modwiz]

David Icke and others are right, if you take out the foundation of a pyramid it will collapse or list. This is recognition that every part of a structure is dependent on the integrity of the rest. The very key aspect/concept of integrity is.....integral. The pyramid concept is only rotten because components of it are rotten, The structure itself is brilliant and quite strong as the edifices standing at Giza and around the globe are a testament to. These structures are symbols of our Golden Ages when wisdom and integrity were the resonant note(s).

One of the big differences between wolves and coyotes when the size is discounted is societal structure and the coordination that results from it making a wolf pack something to respect and coyotes a bunch of cosmic clowns by comparison.

Where I spend half of my year in a holistic community there is hierarchy and it works very well. The secret to the success is integrity and affection at every level for the other levels and the recognition of the interdependence. The hierarchy is a form to work with and within. I occupy a mid level in this structure. I operate with integrity at my level and am mindful of the ripples both up and down from me. It is a continuum. At our end of year party housekeeping got a standing ovation and long applause. The only other department to get greater recognition was the kitchen who feeds us three wonderful opulent and healthy meal services every day. They served 300,000 meals this past half year. Each meal starts with a staff food blessing. The lines where we get our food are kept spotless despite multiple spills every few minutes. This cleanliness is our 'way' not our rule or law. It is part of our culture. If you do not resonate with our culture there is a huge world 'out there' for you to find meaning in. Most of the jobs there offer room and board and a weekly stipend no greater than 80 dollars a week. We have people who volunteer for just room and board, just to be a a part of this community. You cannot tell who is paid or a volunteer. The smile and integrity is the same. Service is compassion in action is our motto.

In closing, do not get hung up on hierarchy being bad and needing a flat landscape for a healthy society. The wolves have their two alphas at the top of their society with each gender represented. The next level of beta has no strict number but is composed of those capable of both good support of the alpha and the potential replacements for the top position. Alphas do not choose the betas, the betas are there by resonating that position with integrity. The showing of the belly in submission is ritual body language and clear communication. Good betas keep the alpha honest because any one of them is a potential alpha. In a healthy society with a high functioning alpha, no beta would want the position because they would not be able to perform as well or they would be the alpha. Ego is not a part of the process, ability is. Ability and integrity are inseparable and are interchangeable for all intentions.

Let us not damn a healthy concept because poor stones have found their way into the structure. These are the psychopaths. They have taken their places because of a degeneration of the whole. We, the foundation and upwards, have to find our health and integrity and the structure will be self healing. Like a healthy body with a working immune system.

[Calz]

I became known as the crystal-woowoo-chick. A hat I wear gladly :)


You wear it well :clap2:


11648

[modwiz]

I am not sure some of you realize that when you fight with pigs you lose and come up very muddy. These people cannot be defeated by open aggression, it takes tact, and a little, ok a lot of karmic magick which is not that easy to do. I once ran an energetic tick out of town who was putting curses on people then charging them thousands when they came to her for help. It took me over a month to do the working, but when I launched it, she was gone within 48 hours, which means business shut and house vacant and family gone. She has never come back. I always put the caveat though in a working that if I am wrong to not let it prosper and come to no effect. I was very much directed to do that particular working.



Which begs of Modwiz - if intuition and intention are the teachers, does it really matter where the crystals are placed? There are many ways to reach the destination, n'est pas?


It does not matter. It is why i used IMO when making my statement about gemstone placement. Perhaps it should be, IMOW. In My Own World.

BTW. Good story

[araucaria]

I am not against pyramids per se (just received a nice cheque from a client using that name :) ), just the up-down direction of hierarchies. Of course, we work together doing different tasks, but keeping the canteen clean is as important as cooking the good food. Part of the creative writing process is mere grind at the keyboard etc, but this aspect too has a hand in the creative process. What is objectionable is the aggressive me over you setup. Alphas and betas may or may not work that way, but I don't really care for that kind of vocabulary.

[modwiz]

I am not against pyramids per se (just received a nice cheque from a client using that name :) ), just the up-down direction of hierarchies. Of course, we work together doing different tasks, but keeping the canteen clean is as important as cooking the good food. Part of the creative writing process is mere grind at the keyboard etc, but this aspect too has a hand in the creative process. What is objectionable is the aggressive me over you setup. Alphas and betas may or may not work that way, but I don't really care for that kind of vocabulary.

I'm open for replacement words, but these two words allow for the idea to be conveyed. I have a point to make, not feathers to smooth.

[araucaria]

no feathers ruffled, just a slightly different viewpoint :)

[Carmody]

wolves and coyotes

A wolf will chase a coyote to the ends of the world. Ceaselessly. Until it is dead, or the coyote is dead. No exceptions. It is simply, as an act...done.

The reason that you see groups looking to end wolf habitation, specifically that which has been recently re-introduced..is that these land owners, etc.. have completely upset the natural balance, and thus the wolves, in that unnatural system, have difficulty finding their own balance. This upsets the 'land occupiers' as they have no sense of balance. in essence their ridiculousness of posture and position is reflected back to them, via the inability of the world of "wolf order and hierarchy in a condition of natural abundance" ---to stabilize itself.

The issue is one of human insanity, not that of wolf.

in the same way we have the insanity of a corrupted heirarchy and layering.. trying, through ignorance and associated psychopathy, to create order in an unnatural system.

however, in a system where more and more are born into a world and thus the natural ways are to come to artifice (self governance in a shifted and altered environment) as a point of natural chance/choice and evolution...we will have moments and times where corrections will be required, via reflection and then correction.

due to the complexity and size of the issue, ie sheer population of the layers in ignorance and insanity..this large group (but small compared to the overall human mass) has been able to reflect back upon itself and self affirm it's correctness, without looking to the greater world as to it's error.

Those who prefer to flow correctly have allowed this condition to fester in a way that was to allow those beings in that condition, layer, and place from whence the problem is sourced... to come to some form of understanding of their error in analysis, sight, position and effect. That the errors of their egoic imperative have caused massive shifting and problems on the idea of an overall consciousness in humans and the group in general.

Instead of being effective, and integrative, in this attempt to elevate humankind to a new layer of evolution, they have become the disease that breaks the system.

Their lesson will be the hardest.

Part of their coming lesson..... is to insert the idea of a solution... into the masses. A pressured condition that they have primed... for other purposes.

the only thing to do... is to help people to understand that psychopaths exist everywhere and that they collude with one another in the same way that football fans go to a game.

That's it.

That the idea of having a testing regimen to defeat the psychopathy of the overall issue and individuals, to excise them. THIS appeals to the common individual on the street.

Through the transmittance of the idea in a primed and pumped environment ..this means the baseline condition is formed. The logic of the situation via even the most primitive forms of human analysis.... will cause a cascade in the mental state of humankind and the eyes of the world will turn to the pyramid structure..but filtered in the form of searching for psychopaths.

You flick the right domino, and you change everything.

they try to control all dominoes or conditions that may excite a domino cascade, but alas they cannot. So they go after the obvious ones.

They try to cover up the understanding that such a thing can be done, as this is one of their great toys they play with. The creation of domino conditions in humans, via pressured situations in the undercurrent of the autonomous system of human avatars --or 'the incarnate in the instinctual body.' this is their playground and their attempt to shift this human world into what they want.

But there are always other dominoes.

The internet gave us all, individually.. the capacity to address the domino effect in the mechanism that underlies the edifice of humanity.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Ulli could tell you about the domino effect in a positive way with her thread, Here and Now!

Carmody, I have yet to hear anyone say so clearly what has been in my own heart for decades, trying to find a voice. Our social and economic dynamics have been, or maybe always were, invaded by a psychopathic element. Personally, I have seen this dynamic play out many times in my working career. When I am targetted, I simply move on as I do not have the social skills needed to thwart them. If physical threat or intelligent discourse is effective I have sometimes managed a detente. But who wants to live and work in such an environment. It's tiring in many ways, and stressful.

On the level of parasites in our bodies, rearranging our DNA to change our behavoir and propensities, I can believe it but I would not emphasize it as much. But to do so anyway, there is the work of Royal Rife (revolutionary microscope) that claims most of our species is carrying an invisible (except with his scope) virus (somatoid?) that is wreaking havoc on our bodies. I mention that just as one example.

But if the body is a reflection of the spirit then it is at the spiritual level where we can be most effective. The phychopaths, as I understand the term, are not a threat one on one. They have no defense against truth. No, they wait for a group situation, where they can incite and rally support. They work their nefarious deeds by the willing consent of others, who either turn their backs on the deeds or become complicit themselves. The problem might well involve a parasite but it is the spiritual vacuum of complacency and the paralysis of natural moral and ethical codes of conduct that cause the most harm. Otherwise good people are seduced by varrying means into committing dastardly acts.

A test for pychopathy? Wow! I can only imagine one sort of test and it would involve a spiritually advanced collaborative effort, sort of like a tribunal. The spector of witch hunt would have to be addressed. Then again, I believe aware individuals already know who the phychopaths are. And some things just have to be done because they are right, period. What exactly that means is up to the individual and the unique situation at hand. All I would add is that some decisions do not require a committee.

[Guest]

My answer for you, and apologies for opining unbidden, Flash, is, there was smoke and now there is fire. More like a conflagration. They are moving to consume the world and its abilities to mount a coherent and powerfully effective act of planetary hygiene. Asking this question makes me think you are not seeing what some of us see. That is what it is, no judgement. It would be spiritually unconscionable for me to not join Carmody in sounding the clarion call along with an effort to rally the troops in a dialogue for solutions. It would also be me not acting in concert with my Mother, Gaia, in standing up for my home, Her, and with Her, against a predator and infection that threatens those of us who were meant to be here and for whom the Dream is being dreamed. The nightmare is caused by actors alien and unwelcome here.


This is a very passionate, powerful and soul & spirit empowering post -my message would be to "please see it clearly" or embody it the way you know how to.

Many, many times i have walked into the devil "layers" not without scratches and i will continue for the earth and all beings of the cosmos Love

Thankyou all of you for this very soulful thread

Nora

We are all related

[modwiz]

Ulli could tell you about the domino effect in a positive way with her thread, Here and Now!

Carmody, I have yet to hear anyone say so clearly what has been in my own heart for decades, trying to find a voice. Our social and economic dynamics have been, or maybe always were, invaded by a psychopathic element. Personally, I have seen this dynamic play out many times in my working career. When I am targetted, I simply move on as I do not have the social skills needed to thwart them. If physical threat or intelligent discourse is effective I have sometimes managed a detente. But who wants to live and work in such an environment. It's tiring in many ways, and stressful.

On the level of parasites in our bodies, rearranging our DNA to change our behavoir and propensities, I can believe it but I would not emphasize it as much. But to do so anyway, there is the work of Royal Rife (revolutionary microscope) that claims most of our species is carrying an invisible (except with his scope) virus (somatoid?) that is wreaking havoc on our bodies. I mention that just as one example.

But if the body is a reflection of the spirit then it is at the spiritual level where we can be most effective. The phychopaths, as I understand the term, are not a threat one on one. They have no defense against truth. No, they wait for a group situation, where they can incite and rally support. They work their nefarious deeds by the willing consent of others, who either turn their backs on the deeds or become complicit themselves. The problem might well involve a parasite but it is the spiritual vacuum of complacency and the paralysis of natural moral and ethical codes of conduct that cause the most harm. Otherwise good people are seduced by varrying means into committing dastardly acts.

A test for pychopathy? Wow! I can only imagine one sort of test and it would involve a spiritually advanced collaborative effort, sort of like a tribunal. The spector of witch hunt would have to be addressed. Then again, I believe aware individuals already know who the phychopaths are. And some things just have to be done because they are right, period. What exactly that means is up to the individual and the unique situation at hand. All I would add is that some decisions do not require a committee.

Jeez, Ernie, you gave me a few things to reply to, so I have chosen to color code them.

The red issue:I feel the most critical part of this is the removal of denial about the severity of this subject. I actually believe that the mass hypnosis dissolving, and people getting clear about the 'body snatchers' and changing the planetary energy could/would create a situation that 'they' may find most unpleasant and perhaps even intolerable. Almost like a rife machine blasting a body with frequencies that make pathogens break apart. That is the/an energetic approach to the planetary illness we are afflicted with. This of course, is kind of allopathic in concept as it is addressing the pathogen instead of the terrain that allows the pathogen to survive and/or proliferate. Dandelions don't grow on beaches.

Blue subject: I want to mainly address your statement about the body being a reflection of the spirit. I feel it is time to dismantle this obfuscation of a much more profound reality. It belongs to the family of phrases like body/mind connection. The word connection implies a connection from separate things and this is not really the case, at all. It is actually the body/mind continuum. It is akin to saying the surface of the ocean is 'connected' to the bottom of the ocean. This wording implies or inserts a separation that doesn't really exist. Even the colors of the visual spectrum are an illusion of sorts. They are all part and parcel of the greater white light. The delineations have their utility but we must be mindful of the greater reality these parcels derive from. We must train our minds to be able to see the big picture from its components. We must be able to mentally walk and chew gum at the same time. What we think we are and the embodiment is not far behind. Like something dropped on the surface of the waters and then falling to the bottom, it is all a continuum. The word holistic has a hole in it, we must be wholistic.

The green part:
I cannot speak strongly enough here. Tests? Tribunals? Witchunts? No! No! and No!
Do we need tests for arsonists? How do we know who they are? They light fires that do damage, intentionally. To think we need tests is to doubt our own perceptions. Yes there are hysterical people we need to ignore. We can see them too. This is about us owning our power as the unique and wonderful species we are. Many of our perceptions of ourselves as a species come because the psychopaths get thrown into the pot with us and make the species taste like $hit. They completely distort the picture. They are different, they are not us. This point cannot be overstated. This is an invasion of the body snatchers real life scenario, but this isn't a Hollywood movie and we don't need unnecessary drama and gore scenes and the moralizing/guilt disempowerment programming that is always part of this industry.

I am glad you feel that some decisions do not require a committee. Committees are way of making sure no one person has to take the blame. Parliaments are just such a cowards corum.

Thank you for the opportunity to respond to your well considered ideas.

[eaglespirit]

Ulli could tell you about the domino effect in a positive way with her thread, Here and Now!

Carmody, I have yet to hear anyone say so clearly what has been in my own heart for decades, trying to find a voice. Our social and economic dynamics have been, or maybe always were, invaded by a psychopathic element. Personally, I have seen this dynamic play out many times in my working career. When I am targeted, I simply move on as I do not have the social skills needed to thwart them. If physical threat or intelligent discourse is effective I have sometimes managed a detente. But who wants to live and work in such an environment. It's tiring in many ways, and stressful.

On the level of parasites in our bodies, rearranging our DNA to change our behavoir and propensities, I can believe it but I would not emphasize it as much. But to do so anyway, there is the work of Royal Rife (revolutionary microscope) that claims most of our species is carrying an invisible (except with his scope) virus (somatoid?) that is wreaking havoc on our bodies. I mention that just as one example.

But if the body is a reflection of the spirit then it is at the spiritual level where we can be most effective. The psychopaths, as I understand the term, are not a threat one on one. They have no defense against truth. No, they wait for a group situation, where they can incite and rally support. They work their nefarious deeds by the willing consent of others, who either turn their backs on the deeds or become complicit themselves. The problem might well involve a parasite but it is the spiritual vacuum of complacency and the paralysis of natural moral and ethical codes of conduct that cause the most harm. Otherwise good people are seduced by varrying means into committing dastardly acts.

A test for psychopathy? Wow! I can only imagine one sort of test and it would involve a spiritually advanced collaborative effort, sort of like a tribunal. The spector of witch hunt would have to be addressed. Then again, I believe aware individuals already know who the psychopaths are. And some things just have to be done because they are right, period. What exactly that means is up to the individual and the unique situation at hand. All I would add is that some decisions do not require a committee.

...and as long as each of Us does the next 'prompted' "right" thing in front of Us without hesitation ...We can help those that are NOT aware of who the psychopaths are in Their Lives, directly or indirectly...if We strongly react to a wrong in the here and now while in the company of others, it WILL lead to a psychopath someway, somehow right there and then! And it is this that will help Others 'see' now more than ever!
The Spirit of this flow is in turbo-mode!

[Ernie Nemeth]

Modwiz, color-coding my post? I'm flattered.
Seriously, though, it is a subject I've thought about a great deal, as I'm sure many of us here have. I won't make the obvious connection here, only to say that our governments are at war with a very similar idea. Taking justice into one's own hands is, well, heretical.

To address the acceptance of these parasites as real, I find the idea of psychopathy compelling. But are we talking of more than just self-centered, amoral individuals here, as I suspect we might be? The answer to this question decides the trajectory of the response.

Spirit and body are merely perspectives in a continuum of consciousness. I can live with that. Either way it broadens the spectrum of response; the solution to a problem is often not found on the same level of awareness/consciousness. There is always hope, I guess I'm saying, always a way out or through. The Paladin knows this.

We agree on the committee being unnecessary in some circumstances. Yes, the Paladin's path is often a lonely one.


Eaglespirit, I hear what you say and I am enthused. It's been a long time coming...
Everything is quickening.

[araucaria]

On the ‘blue subject’ of separation and otherwise, what we have here is a reversal of our normal way of thinking. The negative side has latched onto this holistic notion and as a result we have the analogy of the rabid dog: to combat the rabies, you need to kill the dog. What positive thinking fails to grasp is that holism is including the deliberately separate as part of itself instead of tackling it for what it is: something separate; in other words, we can remove this disease without killing the dog.

Or, to return to the ocean analogy, there is a huge mass of detritus on the surface of the ocean which has nothing to do with either the ocean surface or the bottom but which will stifle both (an everything in between) unless it is skimmed off.

[onawah]

I like Unified Serenity's and ViralSpiral's stories a lot. They remind me of a story a friend once told me about a coven she belonged to which decided to take on a psychopath, a Southern KuKluxKlan politician who was running for office and was about to win by a landslide.
They got together one night and raised a cone of power, and did some Wiccan rituals which were designed to turn the man's own dark energy against them, and to protect the witches who were working for the greater good from any karmic backlash, as they were working for the greater good, and not for selfish ends.
Within a week, the man's luck turned and he lost the election, against all odds.
There was a "sign" that proved to the witches that it was their effort which turned the tide, though I cannot remember now what that was exactly, just that it seemed clearly to be from Spirit.

Personally, when seeking solutions to the problem of pyschopaths within the System, I am more inclined to look outside of the System, within groups of people who are working synergistically with each other and with the Light.
We have so much more power when we work in groups of kindred spirits.
Such work doesn't have to be directed specifically at psychopaths to be effective in a wholistic way, but intent is certainly important, and specific goals can certainly be attained, as my example shows.

Covens and other kinds of spiritual communities are really effective in bringing in more Light to the planet.
The more we do this, the more the dark souls will either break down and become ineffective, will have to leave the planet, or surrender to the inevitable and "convert".
If I could find a coven like my friend's, or even a meditation circle of people meditating for the greater good, I would join it in a minute.
The intent of such a circle is all important, but as long as bringing in more Light is the main goal, it will help.

I've been re-reading and reflecting on the Law of One books.
http://www.lawofone.info/
I often find the simpler something is, the more profound.
The Law of One is channeled information, but even if one is skeptical of the source, I think the wisdom is obvious.
Simply stated, I would say what the Law of One says that the essential things that human beings must understand in order to progress are :
1. the truth of the premise that we are all One
2. the working of the law of cause and effect, or Karma
3. that there are two paths we can choose, one being the path of Oneness, or Service to Others, the other being the path of Separation, or Service to Self
Those who are in Service to Self do not at first understand the first premise
But they can become wise and powerful enough to understand how to avoid the effects of karma somewhat through manipulation and dominance, through use of the dark side
They can only achieve this for so long, however, and must eventually come to understand that love of self must also extend to others, because all are One, and must eventually realize that to progress any further, they must embrace the path of Service to Others.
A sudden and dramatic "conversion" may take place when they reach this juncture, and so it is a mistake to think that they are all hopeless cases.
(Though some may hold out for a very long time, to their great misfortune. )
However, they may still have far to go before they may be trusted, even after their "conversion".

IMHO, whatever those in Service to Others can do to help quicken that process on a planetary basis, whether it's case by case or in more broad based sweeping actions, must be done so in the spirit of Unconditional Love as the basic motivator, so that it does not backfire on the innocent.
This also takes wisdom, but the wisdom of the Light, which is about balance, integrity and Oneness.

I think it's the destiny of our planet for this to happen and so it's happening anyway, but we can and must certainly help the process along by being the best Light Bearers we can be and extending ourselves to working with other Light Bearers as much as we can, which works so synergistically to ensure success.
Just discussing this subject on the forum is strengthening and purifying our intent, and as Carlos Castenada's teacher Don Juan Matus so often emphasized, the intent of a warrior is vital.

[araucaria]

Wiccan rituals were used during World War II and seem to have been one of the causes of Hitler's inexplicable turnaround at Dunkirk instead of following through and invading England.

[modwiz]

Here is an interesting quote taken from a posting on another thread.
First the quote:
"Aliens can take us--our consciousness--out of our physical bodies, disable our control of our bodies, install one of their own entities, and use our bodies as vehicles for their own activities before returning our consciousness to our bodies." --Dr. Karla Turner

From this thread:http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?1383-The-Continuing-Search-For-The-Truth&p=368483&viewfull=1#post368483

A comment about the above quote: I posted it because of the veracity I believe the quote contains, but have a proviso. Our bodies can only be returned if their entity surrenders it. Also, an entity may have owned the body long enough to imprint/infect it. Changing DNA and leaving a vibrational/harmonic signature or virus to continue infection/colonization of the body. Chipping is another method but less insidious as it usually does not organically infect the host. Instead it is a possession by transmission and removal of the transmitter can allow the the body to reset to a condition of normalacy. It can also leave residual effects that can be life-long.

[ViralSpiral]

I like ViralSpiral's story a lot. It reminds me of a story a friend once told me about a coven she belonged to which decided to take on a psychopath, a Southern KuKluxKlan politician who was running for office and was about to win by a landslide.
They got together one night and raised a cone of power, and did some Wiccan rituals which were designed to turn the man's own dark energy against them, and to protect the witches who were working for the greater good from any karmic backlash, as they were working for the greater good, and not for selfish ends.
Within a week, the man's luck turned and he lost the election, against all odds.
There was a "sign" that proved to the witches that it was their effort which turned the tide, though I cannot remember now what that was exactly, just that it seemed clearly to be from Spirit.




Are you saying that I am a witch?!?










Thank you! ;) http://www.buddy-icons.info/img/smile/469.gif



1. the truth of the premise that we are all One

Then the snake suit is mine also?


“Jung first gave us the term ‘shadow’ to refer to those parts of our personality that have been rejected out of fear, ignorance, shame, or lack of love. His basic notion of the shadow was simple: ‘the shadow is the person you would rather not be.’ He believed that integrating the shadow would have a profound impact, enabling us to rediscover a deeper source of our own spiritual life. ‘To do this,’ Jung said, ‘we are obliged to struggle with evil, confront the shadow, to integrate the devil. There is no other choice.’”

~ Debbie Ford from The Dark Side of the Light Chasers

[PurpleLama]

One must wear the snake suit in order to transcend it. The enemy must be known from the inside in order that it's weakness and strength may be applied to itself for it's own undoing. This is exactly what Ra failed to do way back when that has brought us to the confusion of today. Ra did not fully explore the darker portions of the human psyche to fully appreciate what it was capable of, rather he naively believed that the universal understanding he had to share would spread and speak for itself. He didn't guess that the principles would be grasped by a few and used against the rest right up until the present time. We *must* grasp the shadow inside ourselves and bring it to light, we must find the power they use against us inside ourselves and balance it *there*. Just speaking of the Law of One. I highly recommend purchasing the hard copy, for the still small voice is more clearly heard when the body is not in close proximity to an EMF source like a computer and screen. This was my experience, FWIW.

[Calz]

One must wear the snake suit in order to transcend it. The enemy must be known from the inside in order that it's weakness and strength may be applied to itself for it's own undoing. This is exactly what Ra failed to do way back when that has brought us to the confusion of today. Ra did not fully explore the darker portions of the human psyche to fully appreciate what it was capable of, rather he naively believed that the universal understanding he had to share would spread and speak for itself. He didn't guess that the principles would be grasped by a few and used against the rest right up until the present time. We *must* grasp the shadow inside ourselves and bring it to light, we must find the power they use against us inside ourselves and balance it *there*. Just speaking of the Law of One. I highly recommend purchasing the hard copy, for the still small voice is more clearly heard when the body is not in close proximity to an EMF source like a computer and screen. This was my experience, FWIW.

I concur completely your Purpleness :thumb:

Law of :first:

[onawah]

Viral Spiral, if that name suits you, then by all means, claim it!
I am proud to do so , myself...

Agreed, Purple Lama, hardcopy works much better for me too.
But for those who haven't sampled the books, checking out the website may help them decide to.
The books are quite popular though, and I was able to get them through an inter-library loan here in Bible Belt US, which is saying something.
I will buy them eventually, though, I think, so I can loan them to others.

I think those of us in 3D probably all wear the snake suit at one time or another, at least, until we decide who we are going to be in service to.
It's a lot easier to understand one, if you've been one!
(Although, actually of course, being in Service to Self is also being in Service to the One, just not in the most optimal, skillful way, from our perspective.)
From the perspective of the Creator, of course, all is in perfect order.

In one of the books, Ra says that once one decides on the path of Service to Others, much assistance from higher levels of consciousness become available.
We have to call on them, as they cannot assist without our request and permission.
That's a very important point to remember, IMHO.

Channeling through the team of the 3 people who were responsible for the books was Ra's choice of ways for attempting to help correct what he had done when he took human form in ancient Egypt.
As Purple Lama points out, "Ra did not fully explore the darker portions of the human psyche to fully appreciate what it was capable of, rather he naively believed that the universal understanding he had to share would spread and speak for itself. He didn't guess that the principles would be grasped by a few and used against the rest right up until the present time."
It would seem at this time that our collective unconscious is still experiencing after effects of the fear that that resulting disaster helped to create.
Which is probably one reason why getting free energy made publicly available is proving to be so difficult.
And Purple Lama's point , that "We *must* grasp the shadow inside ourselves and bring it to light, we must find the power they use against us inside ourselves and balance it *there*."
is so very true.
Until we have done that, any attempts we make to stop the snakes in suits from creating further chaos and damage will boomerang disastrously back on us.
Another reason why working with a group is a good idea, since there are other mirrors in a group which can reflect back to us where the fear and darkness in ourselves might be, and lend us the support we may need to confront and release it.

Wonderful thread! Thanks! :hug::wave::high5::luv:

[Borden]

Thank you, Carmody ... I have been saying the same thing for a while. I used to believe that all systems of government would probably work well but for the fact that human beings are not up to the task and lack the integrity to run them properly. These days I honestly think most people - despite our general weaknesses and dishonesties - would create a far, far fairer world than this one. The problem is that psychopaths actively seek out these positions of power, and it's difficult to imagine them letting go of their place in the food chain. When government and media are controlled by psychopaths then what chance do we have of changing things? Though I do take your point about the hundredth monkey sort of idea. It could create a tidal wave of awareness, and then they would be running scared. I definitely agree with you that this is about the biggest problem this species faces.

Borden

[Calz]

Interesting ... ya never know what a simple search will provide ...


11676



Except for Carmody of course ... who roams freely among dimensions, densities and otherwise :)

[Ernie Nemeth]

It is hard to accept, for any person, that there is a parasite that controls them. It goes against everything they believe about themselves and this world. My father is a good example. He is sure that commercials and TV watching in general has no effect on his personality or buying habits. But his arguments on most topics is purely a regurgitated account of the daily headlines and editorials. And his house is filled with the products advertised on TV. He is his own man and no one can sway his opinion on anything, he'd tell you. And if there was a parasite he'd know it and his doctor would heal him.

Our world here, on this forum, is not the world out there, beyond these electronic walls. There, life goes on as it has for millenia - nothing is wrong. The world is where it's at, those at sleep will tell you, because of those who do not follow the rules. Yes, us. To them we are the problem because we do not fully add our hearts and souls to the collective for the greater good. My sister used to tell me all the time that I am the problem. If I'd just get the new lisence requirement, if I'd just pay the hefty insurance premium, if I'd just pay my fines, if I'd just learn how to type or to budget or to be more like everyone else then I'd be okay. And if everybody followed the rules and honored imposed sanctions then the world would be a better place. This I believe is perhaps the biggest obstacle in the way of changing our world. Those that live their little robot lives blame us for rocking the boat.

While we blame them, they blame us. And without them, we haven't a chance.

[Borden]

It is hard to accept, for any person, that there is a parasite that controls them. It goes against everything they believe about themselves and this world. My father is a good example. He is sure that commercials and TV watching in general has no effect on his personality or buying habits. But his arguments on most topics is purely a regurgitated account of the daily headlines and editorials. And his house is filled with the products advertised on TV. He is his own man and no one can sway his opinion on anything, he'd tell you. And if there was a parasite he'd know it and his doctor would heal him.

Our world here, on this forum, is not the world out there, beyond these electronic walls. There, life goes on as it has for millenia - nothing is wrong. The world is where it's at, those at sleep will tell you, because of those who do not follow the rules. Yes, us. To them we are the problem because we do not fully add our hearts and souls to the collective for the greater good. My sister used to tell me all the time that I am the problem. If I'd just get the new lisence requirement, if I'd just pay the hefty insurance premium, if I'd just pay my fines, if I'd just learn how to type or to budget or to be more like everyone else then I'd be okay. And if everybody followed the rules and honored imposed sanctions then the world would be a better place. This I believe is perhaps the biggest obstacle in the way of changing our world. Those that live their little robot lives blame us for rocking the boat.

While we blame them, they blame us. And without them, we haven't a chance.

Excellent comment, mate. If we weren't on opposite sides of the planet I would buy you a pint right now.

Borden

[onawah]

Yes, but as the sleeping ones wake up and begin to recognize the snakes in suits for what they are, and this is happening big time these days, with the Occupy Movement just the tip of the iceberg, they will begin to realize it's not the boat rockers and whistleblowers who are the real trouble makers.


This I believe is perhaps the biggest obstacle in the way of changing our world. Those that live their little robot lives blame us for rocking the boat.
While we blame them, they blame us. And without them, we haven't a chance.

[Guest]

I like Unified Serenity's and ViralSpiral's stories a lot. They remind me of a story a friend once told me about a coven she belonged to which decided to take on a psychopath, a Southern KuKluxKlan politician who was running for office and was about to win by a landslide.
They got together one night and raised a cone of power, and did some Wiccan rituals which were designed to turn the man's own dark energy against them, and to protect the witches who were working for the greater good from any karmic backlash, as they were working for the greater good, and not for selfish ends.
Within a week, the man's luck turned and he lost the election, against all odds.
There was a "sign" that proved to the witches that it was their effort which turned the tide, though I cannot remember now what that was exactly, just that it seemed clearly to be from Spirit.

Personally, when seeking solutions to the problem of pyschopaths within the System, I am more inclined to look outside of the System, within groups of people who are working synergistically with each other and with the Light.
We have so much more power when we work in groups of kindred spirits.
Such work doesn't have to be directed specifically at psychopaths to be effective in a wholistic way, but intent is certainly important, and specific goals can certainly be attained, as my example shows.

Covens and other kinds of spiritual communities are really effective in bringing in more Light to the planet.
The more we do this, the more the dark souls will either break down and become ineffective, will have to leave the planet, or surrender to the inevitable and "convert".
If I could find a coven like my friend's, or even a meditation circle of people meditating for the greater good, I would join it in a minute.
The intent of such a circle is all important, but as long as bringing in more Light is the main goal, it will help.

I've been re-reading and reflecting on the Law of One books.
http://www.lawofone.info/
I often find the simpler something is, the more profound.
The Law of One is channeled information, but even if one is skeptical of the source, I think the wisdom is obvious.
Simply stated, I would say what the Law of One says that the essential things that human beings must understand in order to progress are :
1. the truth of the premise that we are all One
2. the working of the law of cause and effect, or Karma
3. that there are two paths we can choose, one being the path of Oneness, or Service to Others, the other being the path of Separation, or Service to Self
Those who are in Service to Self do not at first understand the first premise
But they can become wise and powerful enough to understand how to avoid the effects of karma somewhat through manipulation and dominance, through use of the dark side
They can only achieve this for so long, however, and must eventually come to understand that love of self must also extend to others, because all are One, and must eventually realize that to progress any further, they must embrace the path of Service to Others.
A sudden and dramatic "conversion" may take place when they reach this juncture, and so it is a mistake to think that they are all hopeless cases.
(Though some may hold out for a very long time, to their great misfortune. )
However, they may still have far to go before they may be trusted, even after their "conversion".

IMHO, whatever those in Service to Others can do to help quicken that process on a planetary basis, whether it's case by case or in more broad based sweeping actions, must be done so in the spirit of Unconditional Love as the basic motivator, so that it does not backfire on the innocent.
This also takes wisdom, but the wisdom of the Light, which is about balance, integrity and Oneness.

I think it's the destiny of our planet for this to happen and so it's happening anyway, but we can and must certainly help the process along by being the best Light Bearers we can be and extending ourselves to working with other Light Bearers as much as we can, which works so synergistically to ensure success.
Just discussing this subject on the forum is strengthening and purifying our intent, and as Carlos Castenada's teacher Don Juan Matus so often emphasized, the intent of a warrior is vital.


Hi onawah,

You could create a group like you suggest or call a few friends up and ask them to join you in helping to bring about a Lighter consciousness for the people to embrace. Just making an observation that you have great intent in your heart.

Nora

We are all related

[Mulder]

This is a subject I'm very interested in after reading Thomas Sheridan's book "Labyrinth of the Psychopath." He has now started a web-site called http://psychopathfree.com/ See him:
L42AGbz4icU
KlMwYoEScbE


Of course psychopaths are going to rise to the top of the World in Govt, Business, Religion... - they have a predatory consciuosness, unlike normal people who don't want to be predators.

[onawah]

Thanks Nora.
I am working on getting together a local Contact group, which will get together once a month or so at night, in a remote place, where we will build a campfire, have a meditation and ask fora positive, empowering UFO/ET Contact.
Many people are doing that around the world and getting very positive and transformative results.
That should be a good start!

[Carmody]

Interesting ... ya never know what a simple search will provide ...


11676



Except for Carmody of course ... who roams freely among dimensions, densities and otherwise :)

You can do the same. Not that I really do such things anyway. basically anyone I run into is also doing the same, so it's no big deal, in my book, or experience.

free your mind and your ass will follow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5xDFjpg2oA)

Besides, such talk pushes some people away.......

[araucaria]

Just bumping this thread of Carmody's for its continued relevance and importance

[Hervé]

Are psychopaths in office at the B.C. legislature? And If not, what's the best voting system to keep things that way? (https://www.straight.com/news/1158336/are-there-any-psychopaths-bc-legislature-if-not-whats-best-voting-system-keep-things)

Charlie Smith The Georgia Straight (https://www.straight.com/news/1158336/are-there-any-psychopaths-bc-legislature-if-not-whats-best-voting-system-keep-things)
Wed, 31 Oct 2018 09:04 UTC


https://www.sott.net/image/s24/496499/large/BCPARL_SH.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s24/496499/full/BCPARL_SH.jpg)
© Stephen Hui


The referendum on electoral reform could change the way British Columbians elect MLAs to the legislature.

One of the first feature stories I ever did for the Georgia Straight was about a UBC researcher and psychology professor named Robert Hare.

At the time, he was the world's leading authority on psychopathic behaviour, having pioneered a screening test for the disorder.

Hare said that about one in 100 people were psychopaths - and not all of them were violent criminals. Many were swindlers and con artists.

These were often charming and charismatic people who emptied seniors' bank accounts and lived parasitical lifestyles.

They seemed to lack any conscience. It was if they had a missing chip in their brain.

Hare also insisted that psychopathy was a discrete disorder.

In recent years, brain-imaging testing has reinforced this point of view. Functional MRI tests show that when psychopaths perform certain tasks, different parts of their brains light up when compared to the brains of nonpsychopaths.

As a result, psychopaths have the same reaction to emotionally loaded images as they do to neutral pictures.

A University of Wisconsin-Madison study last year showed that psychopaths have reduced connections between a part of their prefrontal cortex, which is linked to empathy and guilt, and the amygdala, which is an almond-shaped part of the brain that mediates fear and anxiety.

"This is the first study to show both structural and functional differences in the brains of people diagnosed with psychopathy," University of Wisconson School of Medicine and Public Health assistant professor of psychiatry Michael Koenigs said in a news release (https://www.med.wisc.edu/news-and-events/2011/november/psychopaths-brains-differences-structure-function/). "Those two structures in the brain, which are believed to regulate emotion and social behavior, seem to not be communicating as they should."

Psychopaths are often glib and superficial, callous, and emotionally shallow types. Nowadays, the public is well aware of this personality type - the so-called snakes in suits, as Hare referred to them in one of his books.

One thing has stayed with me from that early interview with Hare.

I asked him which occupations psychopaths tend to gravitate toward.

He replied that they like working in areas where they can take advantage of people with a relatively low risk of consequences.

As for actual jobs, he mentioned stock promotion, psychiatry, the law, real-estate sales, professional wrestling, and politics as examples.

So if one in 100 in the public is a psychopath, it's conceivable that fewer than one in 100 in these lines of work would have this discrete disorder.

There were 338 MPs elected to Parliament in 2015, including 42 from B.C. There are 105 Senate seats in Canada, including six for B.C. There are 87 MLAs elected in B.C.

Odds are that there will be at least one or two of those B.C. representatives who would meet the test of being a psychopath, based on their prevalence in the general population.

Months before Donald Trump was elected as U.S. president, I wrote a column (https://www.straight.com/news/694221/psychopathic-politicians-can-be-exposed-their-names-get-ballot) suggesting that psychopathic politicians could be exposed before their names ever appeared on a ballot.


Comment: A not so subtle hint of what the author thinks of Trump.



Nowadays, the science exists to determine if someone is one of these manipulative, purely self-interested, social-climbing predators.

But it's unlikely that any legislators would bring forth a law to require screening tests as a condition of running for office. It might even be unconstitutional.

Nevertheless, the risk of electing psychopathic politicians has not been raised during the current referendum on electoral reform in B.C.

There's been a lot of talk about electing extremists and neo-Nazis-and which system is best for weeding them out. But when it comes to psychopathy, nada.

As someone with a long-standing amateur interest in this area, I think this subject should be put on the table for public discussion.

Here's my take.

Under first-past-the-post, psychopaths have an inherent advantage because they are likely better at raising the necessary money to win nominations and coming across as charismatic candidates in individual constituencies.

They also have an advantage in party leadership races for the same reason.

Lawyers and real-estate agents, in particular, tend to do well in securing nominations because they can set aside the time to campaign while still making a decent living.

And as Hare noted, psychopaths are sometimes attracted to the legal profession and the real-estate industry for some of the same reasons they like getting involved in politics.

Nominations also must be won under some forms of proportional representation, including dual-member (DMP), which is on the menu in the B.C. referendum.

But there are also risks of psychopaths getting elected under mixed-member proportional representation.

Here, voters have two votes - one for a party and one for the candidate.

Parties prepare lists, which can be closed or open.

Whichever committee is creating the list can be swayed by a psychopath, particularly if its members don't know what to look for. Or a psychopath could get on the committee and influence the selection of the party lists.

Under an open-list system, voters can choose individual candidates. Perhaps this can increase the opportunity to prevent psychopaths from being elected if experts or voters highlight the candidate's ethical shortcomings over the course of the campaign.

This might be more difficult to prevent under a closed-list system, where the party selects those who will become legislators.

Then there's the argument that proportional representation leads to more minority governments. That could be a good thing for those who worry about a psychopath ever becoming a premier.

Under our parliamentary system, premiers wield enormous power. They can appoint and fire cabinet ministers at will. They can call elections. The only real checks on them are the courts and administrative tribunals and the voters at election time.

But in a minority government, premiers must also answer to at least one opposition party to stay in power. So in effect, proportional representation has the potential of diluting the power of the premier's office.

To some readers, this might all sound like an esoteric discussion that's far removed from the day-to-day reality of B.C. politics.

To them, I would respond this way: the world's most notorious psychopath of the 20th century, the highly charismatic Adolf Hitler, initially came to power in a democracy.

It's incumbent on all of us to try to design the best system possible to prevent demagogues without a conscience from getting into public office and wielding enormous influence over British Columbians.

===============================================

It seems that such a system of filtering psychopaths/narcissists out of power positions is direly needed, everywhere, now!

Related:
Twilight of the psychopaths (https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/sociopol_ponerology08.htm)
Political Ponerology (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?98897-Political-Ponerology)