Veggies live longer and look great...

[Eric J (Viking)]

Guess how old ??

Jeeeeze when I get to her age I hope I look as good!

http://www.lowdensitylifestyle.com/media/uploads/2009/09/600mimikirk.jpg

Check the video here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6qi3gfIJRA&feature=share

viking

[Cjay]

Amazing! There must be a lot of differnet factors and I suspect her genes are the most important factor of all.

- - EDIT - -

Just wanted to add that my grandfather lived to 103 years + 8 months, eating just about anything, including meat but not junk food. He was very healthy and "with it" right up until he decided it was time to join his wife in the afterlife. My other three grandparents, also meat eaters, lived past 90, with no major problems until the very end.

[pharoah21]

Well we all know processed food won't add to your life. Based on a lot of current evidence, meat probably shortens life span. But this ladys diet was probably the most fun.......really fun..............

http://valetudocafe.wordpress.com/2011/05/13/125-year-old-woman-claimed-smoking-pot-everyday-was-her-secret-to-long-life/

[RMorgan]

Amazing! There must be a lot of differnet factors and I suspect her genes are the most important factor of all.

- - EDIT - -

Just wanted to add that my grandfather lived to 103 years + 8 months, eating just about anything, including meat but not junk food. He was very healthy and "with it" right up until he decided it was time to join his wife in the afterlife. My other three grandparents, also meat eaters, lived past 90, with no major problems until the very end.

Of course. There are several factors involved. We, humans, are the most adaptable animals of the world. We can survive, live and spread in almost every environment on Earth, sometimes with a pretty restrictive diet. You can live for a long time eating almost anything NATURAL. The real problem is the processed artificial food.

However, I´m a veggie and I like it! :)

Cheers,

Raf.

[Warlock]

I have come to the conclusion that it's all in your genes.

However, YOU could be the exception to your gene pool.

There is no way to know.

Warlock

[Daughter of Time]

I think it's about 1/3 genes, 1/3 lifestyle, 1/3 state of mind. That is, approximately!
I eat very little meat, and it has it has to be humanely raised, with no antibiotics and no hormones. But the remnants of my ice age ancestry crave meat once in a while. My weight is in proper balance with my height, although I have to be vigilant about maintaining it. I may not be the healthiest person on the planet, but that is primarily because of emotional issues.

I have many vegan friends - all quite self-righteous since they've become vegans - even though in the past they used to eat McDonald's - yuck!!!! That I never did!!!
One of my vegan friends used to be an attractive young woman until she became vegan. She is around 5'4" and used to weight around 125 lbs. Since becoming a vegan she is still 5'4" and now weighs around 200 lbs.! I know that veganism is not to blame. It's her poor food choices which are to blame. But veganism and a busy lifestyle do not go hand in hand!

Do not misunderstand me! I am not trashing veganism! I am just saying that veganism is not necessarily the answer to looking young when you're old. Let's not twist the truth! Please!

[Cjay]

Well we all know processed food won't add to your life. Based on a lot of current evidence, meat probably shortens life span. But this ladys diet was probably the most fun.......really fun..............

http://valetudocafe.wordpress.com/2011/05/13/125-year-old-woman-claimed-smoking-pot-everyday-was-her-secret-to-long-life/

I have to agree with you on this one.

Some of the reader's comments are priceless, for example:


But the government told us that smoking pot would make us go insane and kill people?!


Maybe the government itself is insane…

[TargeT]

Based on a lot of current evidence, meat probably shortens life span.

anything to back this up handy?

I have a hard HARD H A R D time believing that...

[pharoah21]

Based on a lot of current evidence, meat probably shortens life span.

anything to back this up handy?

I have a hard HARD H A R D time believing that...

Simply look at nature. All the carnivorous animals out there are smaller, weaker, and live much shorter lives than vegetarian animals. Also, all the animals you eat to get your protein, are vegetarian animals themselves lol how did they get their protein? And just look at our closest relatives, the apes. Ridiculously strong, and again, apart from eating a few ants and insects, they are pure vegan :)

[161803398]

I had a vegetarian cat who didn't know what meat or fish was. I fed her rice and broccoli for years. Then she had to go live with my parents for a while and she got some cat food then. Anyway she lived to be 20.

here's one kinda mainstreamy thing on life span:

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Healthday/story?id=7153072&page=1#.Ttmh9HKwUqs

another one:

http://www.vegsource.com/news/2009/12/researchers-protein-found-in-meat-and-fish-shortens-lifespan.html

and:

http://t-healthy.blogspot.com/2011/08/meat-linked-to-diabetes-stroll-to-stop.html

http://www.livestrong.com/article/502968-life-expectancy-of-vegetarians-vs-meat-eaters/

http://students.brown.edu/Brown_Nutrition/protein/

and this very sad one:

http://www.balanced-healthy-diet.com/organic-grass-fed-beef.html

[Daughter of Time]

If you eat ants and insects then you are not pure vegan

[Warlock]

Based on a lot of current evidence, meat probably shortens life span.

anything to back this up handy?

I have a hard HARD H A R D time believing that...

Simply look at nature. All the carnivorous animals out there are smaller, weaker, and live much shorter lives than vegetarian animals. Also, all the animals you eat to get your protein, are vegetarian animals themselves lol how did they get their protein? And just look at our closest relatives, the apes. Ridiculously strong, and again, apart from eating a few ants and insects, they are pure vegan :)

I have yet to meat......oops.........meet a vegan that has the strength of a silverback gorilla.

Warlock

[Daughter of Time]

And of course I agree that a diet high in meat consumption, especially the commercially raised and processed kind, is not conducive to good health. But let's remember that not all metabolisms are crated equal. I have an aunt who eats so much meat, it makes me sick. She's 70 years old and looks much younger than the 72 year old featured above. I also have a neighbour who has been vegan since she was 20; she is now 40 and and is so wrinkled and aenemic that she looks 70!

So what's the conclusion? There are none, really! Give your body what it craves provided that it's a whole food. If it's meat, make sure it comes from an ethical farm, not from mass production. If your body craves veganism, then give it that.

What works for a group of people does not necessarily work for the entire population.

[Warlock]

And of course I agree that a diet high in meat consumption, especially the commercially raised and processed kind, is not conducive to good health. But let's remember that not all metabolisms are crated equal. I have an aunt who eats so much meat, it makes me sick. She's 70 years old and looks much younger than the 72 year old featured above. I also have a neighbour who has been vegan since she was 20; she is now 40 and and is so wrinkled and aenemic that she looks 70!

So what's the conclusion? There are none, really! Give your body what it craves provided that it's a whole food. If it's meat, make sure it comes from an ethical farm, not from mass production. If your body craves veganism, then give it that.

What works for a group of people does not necessarily work for the entire population.

I agree and welcome to the forum.

Warlock

[pharoah21]

Based on a lot of current evidence, meat probably shortens life span.

anything to back this up handy?

I have a hard HARD H A R D time believing that...

Simply look at nature. All the carnivorous animals out there are smaller, weaker, and live much shorter lives than vegetarian animals. Also, all the animals you eat to get your protein, are vegetarian animals themselves lol how did they get their protein? And just look at our closest relatives, the apes. Ridiculously strong, and again, apart from eating a few ants and insects, they are pure vegan :)

I have yet to meat......oops.........meet a vegan that has the strength of a silverback gorilla.

Warlock

And I am yet to meet a meat eater with that kind of strength either ;)

[Zepheriah]

I see what your getting at, i really do, but i have to disagree.

I have more proof to back up my claim that its not the food you eat but how you treat that food and how you live that makes you as you are.

So, here's my proof, feel free to pointlessly deny what is before your eyes. (providing its now working of course!)

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=11693&d=1322832656


You're welcome.

[pharoah21]

I see what your getting at, i really do, but i have to disagree.

I have more proof to back up my claim that its not the food you eat but how you treat that food and how you live that makes you as you are.

So, here's my proof, feel free to pointlessly deny what is before your eyes.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=11692&thumb=1


You're welcome.

Before my eyes is a broken link :confused:

[Zepheriah]

EEK!

Give me chance! i'll fix it

***EDIT***

Should now be working

[NeverMind]

We do.
Well, I don't know if we live longer (it would make sense), but by God, we do look great.

:)

Proud vegetarian (not vegan) of many years.

(And the last time I've had so much as a cold was in the past century.)

[RMorgan]

Well, I haven´t met a vegan as strong as a gorila as well, but some of them are pretty strong.

Have you ever heard of Mac Danzig? He´s one of the top MMA fighters of the world, and he´s completely vegan:

wjZ_yRWabuc

There are others in MMA as well:

Jon Fitch (“considered by most either the No. 2 or No. 3 welterweight in the world”)
Jake Shields (“the next challenger for Georges St. Pierre’s welterweight title” — this April 30th fight has sold out the 55,000-seat Rogers Centre in Toronto)
Nick Diaz (“Strikeforce welterweight champion”)
Nate Diaz (.. Nick’s younger brother)
Mac Danzig (“Season 6 winner of ‘The Ultimate Fighter’ as a welterweight”)

http://eatdrinkbetter.com/2011/02/21/top-mma-fighters-raving-about-vegetarianism/

They are not gorillas indeed, but they are stronger than most meat eaters I know...That´s for sure. I wouldn´t like to mess with these veggies.... :)

Cheers,

Raf.

[13th Warrior]

Concerning gorillas:

"All gorillas are primarily vegetarians, although they will eat some insects (termites) as well mineral soil. Like humans, gorillas have a single non-fermenting stomach which is less efficient at digesting vegetation than the multi-chambered stomachs of colobus monkeys and hoofed ruminants (hence they have a rather bulbous paunch and can be conspicuously gaseous!). Consequently gorillas are fairly sedentary in comparison to other primates and spend much of their day light hours feeding or at rest."

"Mountain gorillas are said to spend approximately 30% of their time feeding, 30% of their time moving and foraging and the remaining 40% of their time resting."

Source: http://www.gorilla-trekking.co.uk/about-gorilla-safaris/

With all that time spent eating; there doesn't seem to be much time to develop high technology...

[Unified Serenity]

This is laughable really. Look at the general population and observe their vitality. I have been around vegans all my life. The vast majority have this extremely weak looking frame, appear dry almost brittle hair, and I could beat any of the men arm wrestling. Now you have to understand I was a top athlete all through early adulthood, became a horse shoer, and could easily bench over 200 pds and 700 pound leg presses. So, I am not your typical woman. It has only been recently that I am struggling with my strength and my partner still calls me a moose.

If I had to get a physical job done, I would not call my vegan male friends before I called my meat eating male friends. Just go to your local whole foods organic veggie store and look at the guys, they look weak. Sure you can find some examples to say, "But look at this one", but I am speaking of a lifetime of observing. Now, all that being said, we in America eat terribly in general. We need to embrace eating our greens, organic, and way less carbs and meat.

[pharoah21]

I see what your getting at, i really do, but i have to disagree.

I have more proof to back up my claim that its not the food you eat but how you treat that food and how you live that makes you as you are.

So, here's my proof, feel free to pointlessly deny what is before your eyes. (providing its now working of course!)

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=11693&d=1322832656


You're welcome.

Lol this is not evidence. How many pictures do you think I can find that show the opposite? The problem with the vegetarian diet these days, is that it's not done correctly. Mainly because there just isn't any nutrients in the soil of the farms that give us our food. Also, it's a toxic world out there, and our Ph levels are all over the place. Every single one of us out in the west have a weak stomach, which means, we don't digest our food properly. To get the best of a vegetarian diet today, our stomachs would need a Ph level of about 1 or 2, which just about no one has. We need this because there are not enough of the crucial enzymes in the fruit and veg today, which help us break down the foods in the stomach. When it isn't broken down properly, it isn't absorbed. So it's as if not eating at all. There are two things that correct this problem. Eating more wild foods, which are 100's of times more powerful than what you can get at the supermarket (these are growing outside all our doors) and enzyme tablets, which aid in digestions and put a stop to all the gas.........

I'll tell you a secret. I love the taste of meat, and I wish it was as healthy as what they make it out to be. My life would be a lot easier, in fact I am really struggling to stay healthy on a vegetarian diet, because I'm still educating myself everyday, having done this for less than a year. But the fact of the matter is that only animal products have cholesterol in them, and do eventually shut down the body and contribute to cancer. And there are thousands of people out there who have healed themselves of cancer, diabetes, and many many many illnesses by going veg.

Also have a look at most spiritual gurus out there, whether they be Buddhist, Hindu or whatever, they all seem to advocate an animal free diet :)

[Unified Serenity]

Also have a look at most spiritual gurus out there, whether they be Buddhist, Hindu or whatever, they all seem to advocate an animal free diet :)

This means nothing to me. I can point to great spiritual people who eat meat. This is another left/right paradigm meant to cause strife. I will not comply any further.

[pharoah21]

This is laughable really. Look at the general population and observe their vitality. I have been around vegans all my life. The vast majority have this extremely weak looking frame, appear dry almost brittle hair, and I could beat any of the men arm wrestling. Now you have to understand I was a top athlete all through early adulthood, became a horse shoer, and could easily bench over 200 pds and 700 pound leg presses. So, I am not your typical woman. It has only been recently that I am struggling with my strength and my partner still calls me a moose.

If I had to get a physical job done, I would not call my vegan male friends before I called my meat eating male friends. Just go to your local whole foods organic veggie store and look at the guys, they look weak. Sure you can find some examples to say, "But look at this one", but I am speaking of a lifetime of observing. Now, all that being said, we in America eat terribly in general. We need to embrace eating our greens, organic, and way less carbs and meat.

I don't doubt what you say at all. But I'll bet you just about anything that these weak men will have no idea why they're so weak, and how to do this diet properly. The key is, when you take the time to educate yourself on how to do it properly, the results are RIDICULOUS!
A lot of the older guys out there who have been body building all their lives have gone on to a raw food vegan diet (this is the way it needs to be done) and are getting phenomenal results. Try to beat this old guy in an arm wrestle ;)

iUvjXQHt6QQ

[NeverMind]

Lol this is not evidence. How many pictures do you think I can find that show the opposite?

:)

And let's not mention that one is not wearing ANY makeup and was shot in very unflattering lighting conditions, while the other is heavily made-up, in "glamourous" lighting AND airbrushed (by the newspaper).

It is absolutely true, in my experience, that genes account for maybe half of any given effect (and that doesn't go for nutrition only, but also for smoking and other habits).
The same could be said about EXPECTATIONS.

I do think, however, that choosing not to eat meat of animals killed for the purpose is the moral thing to do.
It certainly is for me.

BTW, I used to love love love meat. I could have lived on meat alone!
Yet I went cold turkey, and whatever cravings I had, they were easily overcome by remembering WHY I had chosen to do it.

[pharoah21]

Also have a look at most spiritual gurus out there, whether they be Buddhist, Hindu or whatever, they all seem to advocate an animal free diet :)

This means nothing to me. I can point to great spiritual people who eat meat. This is another left/right paradigm meant to cause strife. I will not comply any further.

I understand it means nothing to you because you're a Christian, and I assume you believe only Christians are truly spiritual, and yet Christianity doesn't seem to be concerned with animal cruelty, or anything with animals at all. But I will tell you this. Christianity does concern itself with helping the poor, and the fact of the matter is that a lot of the worlds food is swallowed by animals we try to fatten up to eat, and this is having direct effects on the poorer places in the world because suddenly they have to compete with factory farms for their food. These two articles explains it perfectly.

http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/more-reasons-to-go-vegan.aspx

http://www.anthonysmith.me.uk/2011/09/14/eat-lots-of-meat-or-feed-starving-people/

[NeverMind]

I understand it means nothing to you because you're a Christian, and I assume you believe only Christians are truly spiritual, and yet Christianity doesn't seem to be concerned with animal cruelty, or anything with animals at all. But I will tell you this. Christianity does concern itself with helping the poor, and the fact of the matter is that a lot of the worlds food is swallowed by animals we try to fatten up to eat, and this is having direct effects on the poorer places in the world because suddenly they have to compete with factory farms for their food.

Just adding to the conversation here (not interfering, I hope)...
I am a Christian myself (baptised a Catholic).
Which means, in my case, that I really try - not "hard", because no long-term good ever comes from strain, I believe, but sincerely and earnestly - to follow Christ's teachings.

It is true that many Christians (among others, obviously) are strangely oblivious to the plight of other living creatures, and I can't understand that... unless they are not really serious about the very precepts they believe in, and perhaps follow them more as a cultural thing.
But I certainly do not find anything in the faith itself (meaning Christ's teachings) that would encourage eating meat.

Like I said, I was only adding to the conversations, because I thought it could be relevant.
Now I am going away again. :-)

[keramikus]

For me its not to live longer or better being a vegetarian, most people dont see that point, which is not killing animals. We human could be the same food to other species. For them our feelings are also nothing like we dont care about from where the meat comes from, its like thinking its growing on the tree. You Think super beings who could colonise Earth would feel any pity by eating us, etc . How can we evolve when we think only about us!!!!!!!!!

[lunaflare]

The point of a meat-free/vegetarian diet (for me) is not to condone the mass production and cruel treatment of animals...then again, I have been known to swipe away lines of crawling ants with a wet cloth that march into my bathroom and kitchen....
So the moral of this winding tale?
Comes down to choice. And the choices we make are unique for each individual. My choices were influenced by education. The more I know about the treatment of animals to serve the diet of humans, the more I am comfortable with my choices. Also, my body does not want meat. I do not feel I am missing out at all. Quite the contrary...and this has been well over 20 years now.
I was listening to an interview with Santos Bonacci recently (truth frequency radio) and he said all the great Hermetic scholars were vegetarians and did not believe in the shedding of the blood, and that the human body was not designed for the consumption of meat..... Just food for thought.

[Unified Serenity]

Also have a look at most spiritual gurus out there, whether they be Buddhist, Hindu or whatever, they all seem to advocate an animal free diet :)

This means nothing to me. I can point to great spiritual people who eat meat. This is another left/right paradigm meant to cause strife. I will not comply any further.

I understand it means nothing to you because you're a Christian, and I assume you believe only Christians are truly spiritual, and yet Christianity doesn't seem to be concerned with animal cruelty, or anything with animals at all. But I will tell you this. Christianity does concern itself with helping the poor, and the fact of the matter is that a lot of the worlds food is swallowed by animals we try to fatten up to eat, and this is having direct effects on the poorer places in the world because suddenly they have to compete with factory farms for their food. These two articles explains it perfectly.

http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/more-reasons-to-go-vegan.aspx

http://www.anthonysmith.me.uk/2011/09/14/eat-lots-of-meat-or-feed-starving-people/

Wow, you assume a lot about me. You, sir, no nothing of my path, my beliefs or feelings and to me you feel like either a troll or just blinded in your own ideology that you cannot allow for someone to point out blatant hypocrisy. We are done here.

[pharoah21]

My apologies for offending you.

[Andreash94]

Well we all know processed food won't add to your life. Based on a lot of current evidence, meat probably shortens life span. But this ladys diet was probably the most fun.......really fun..............

http://valetudocafe.wordpress.com/2011/05/13/125-year-old-woman-claimed-smoking-pot-everyday-was-her-secret-to-long-life/
O yea i like thath vagetarian diet XD smoky smoky smoky ....to bad cannabis is inlegal in my contry but they legalized some junks to smoke that atck pineal gland ....

[Daughter of Time]

The athlete who created the vegan protein meal supplements named "Vega" is a vegan. He's very strong. There is no question that you can be vegan and you can be strong. The point here is not to discredit veganism because it does have many benefits, that is, provided that it's done right. And I'm not even advocating the notion that if you're blood type "O" then you have to eat meat, although that makes sense too.

The point is that someone like Gillian McKeith might have become vegan because of health issues, I don't know. But it sure doesn't seem to be helping the she looks.

Now, Nigellea Lawson, on the other hand, probably has cosmetic treatments and other things to embellish her beauty, but wow!!! Her look doesn't seem very artificial to me. She's glowing, and that comes from the inside.

No, let's no one be dogmatic about it. Let's respect our bodies, feed them well whether it be a vegetarian or a carnivorous diet, and if we eat meat, let's make sure that animal has had a proper life. It's fair to the animal, and it's fair to our bodies to ingest an animal that doesn't carry the grief of abuse into our body which in turn affects our consciousness.

And by the way, does anyone know for sure that plants do not suffer when you kill them?

[Unified Serenity]

My apologies for offending you.

Apology accepted, thank you for offering one. I prefer Daughter of Time's energy in this whole exchange. Everything done in balance and to follow our hearts in love, kindness, gratitude, and mercy for those that do sustain us in the animal world.

[blufire]

An observation . . . . and this one is going to get me in trouble . . . . so up front I’m apologizing (again).

If an individual came to me for an apprentice position on my organic farm in Kansas and they were vegetarian and especially vegan it gave me pause before I would accept their apprenticeship, simply because their endurance level and strength was not that of someone who ate at least some red meat. I would say in about 75% of the time . . . both male and female. I found that I had to give these individuals less heavy work, say weeding as opposed to hauling wheelbarrows of compost into the fields.

I had one vegetarian apprentice I had to “let go” because she would not use tools because she felt like they were weapons and she apologized to even the weeds as she pulled them out of the beds because she felt as if she was killing them (well she was actually). She had to meditate while working to alleviate the anxiety she felt. I tried to work with her and help her see the incredible beauty and outstanding vibrant energy of the organic vegetables growing around her and the abundant wildlife within the fields but it was physically and emotionally too difficult for her. Not only for her but for me and the others working around her, her energy was toxic. I still think of her and wonder how she is doing . . . . .

I was very aware when matching individuals to tasks to take into careful consideration what they could safely do . . . . not only to themselves but the people they were working with. I hardly ever assigned the vegan/vegetarian (the 75%) chores that involved heavy equipment or equipment that was dangerous . . . . which on a farm is just about everything. If the PTO attachment is not attached correctly to the drive shaft of a 200hp tractor people can loose their lives or minimally have serious injuries.

Did this mean the jobs the vegan/vegetarian did do were less valuable or important . . . absolutely not. Weeding, harvesting, transplanting, seeding, washing, packaging, sorting, customer relations were always handled very well by these individuals.

Also, there were always animals that needed extra loving and attention. I have found that assigning the vegan/vegetarian that has chosen this lifestyle for emotion reasons (killing and eating of animals) benefited greatly from interaction with the farm animals. I learned quickly that an hour or so with the baby goats soothed the most nervous, upset and agitated vegetarian.

I would like to offer a suggestion that could maybe end the ongoing hurtful (both sides) discussion between the omnivores and herbivores. It has been said many times in these discussions or debates that meat eaters should be made to raise and kill the animals they consume . . . . okay so if this is a bottom line stance for the veggies then I propose that the veggies should grow (from seed to harvest) all the vegetables they eat. No supplements or grocery stores. Which lifestyle is more realistic?

And oh with staying in the OP . . . .I am 52 years old and constantly thought of as at least 15 years younger. My granny lived to 104 or 106, my grandmothers both in their nineties and grandfathers in their late eighties, my mother is 81 and very little health related problems . . . . I expect she will live into her nineties and we are or were all meat eaters.

[Zillah]

There is no doubt that there are modalities out there that WORK for some, however - as humans we tend to "stick with" what works and make it TRUE for everyone - health is completely subjective, and so is the fountain of youth ;)

Personally I went on a raw/veggy diet and it was NOT for me. Before anyone says I didnt do it right, I was following guide-lines set up and monitored by my personal nutritionist who actually concluded after 2 years, "hmmm maybe this isn't for you." I then tried being only vegetarian and that didnt work - I felt weak, frail, and looked terrible! THEN I moved on over to the alkaline diet which worked so well for me and still does - Im at a healthy weight, have glowing skin and eyes and feel super active... but I have also found "earth gifts" to accompany my regime, AND most importantly found ways to tap into my divinity.

What's my point - we are to find/remember what works for US - the beauty about being snowflakes - we're all different so we can SHARE the multitude of ways WE FOUND OUR IDEAL :)

Lately for me, ever since I turned 30 - locating ways to be forever young is quite fun - hehehe - and Im happy to report much success but I could never sit here and tell you what the secret is because there isn't One- hmm, well maybe there is...

INSIDE OF YOU there is that child, tap into IT and you will look even better than this 71 year old woman (I promise its not even the raw food that's doing it for her) - Its all MIND, its all HEART, and knowing the POWER that lies within -- so ask yourself to find those ways to tap into those magical points and you will radiate like nothing else.

<3 to beauty, inside and out.

[13th Warrior]

An observation . . . . and this one is going to get me in trouble . . . . so up front I’m apologizing (again).

If an individual came to me for an apprentice position on my organic farm in Kansas and they were vegetarian and especially vegan it gave me pause before I would accept their apprenticeship, simply because their endurance level and strength was not that of someone who ate at least some red meat. I would say in about 75% of the time . . . both male and female. I found that I had to give these individuals less heavy work, say weeding as opposed to hauling wheelbarrows of compost into the fields.

I had one vegetarian apprentice I had to “let go” because she would not use tools because she felt like they were weapons and she apologized to even the weeds as she pulled them out of the beds because she felt as if she was killing them (well she was actually). She had to meditate while working to alleviate the anxiety she felt. I tried to work with her and help her see the incredible beauty and outstanding vibrant energy of the organic vegetables growing around her and the abundant wildlife within the fields but it was physically and emotionally too difficult for her. Not only for her but for me and the others working around her, her energy was toxic. I still think of her and wonder how she is doing . . . . .

I was very aware when matching individuals to tasks to take into careful consideration what they could safely do . . . . not only to themselves but the people they were working with. I hardly ever assigned the vegan/vegetarian (the 75%) chores that involved heavy equipment or equipment that was dangerous . . . . which on a farm is just about everything. If the PTO attachment is not attached correctly to the drive shaft of a 200hp tractor people can loose their lives or minimally have serious injuries.

Did this mean the jobs the vegan/vegetarian did do were less valuable or important . . . absolutely not. Weeding, harvesting, transplanting, seeding, washing, packaging, sorting, customer relations were always handled very well by these individuals.

Also, there were always animals that needed extra loving and attention. I have found that assigning the vegan/vegetarian that has chosen this lifestyle for emotion reasons (killing and eating of animals) benefited greatly from interaction with the farm animals. I learned quickly that an hour or so with the baby goats soothed the most nervous, upset and agitated vegetarian.

I would like to offer a suggestion that could maybe end the ongoing hurtful (both sides) discussion between the omnivores and herbivores. It has been said many times in these discussions or debates that meat eaters should be made to raise and kill the animals they consume . . . . okay so if this is a bottom line stance for the veggies then I propose that the veggies should grow (from seed to harvest) all the vegetables they eat. No supplements or grocery stores. Which lifestyle is more realistic?

And oh with staying in the OP . . . .I am 52 years old and constantly thought of as at least 15 years younger. My granny lived to 104 or 106, my grandmothers both in their nineties and grandfathers in their late eighties, my mother is 81 and very little health related problems . . . . I expect she will live into her nineties and we are or were all meat eaters.

Indeed, it's all about diversity; mother nature favors diversity.

Diversity in plant, animal, human life...everything everywhere...

Not everyone can or will be a vegan.

As RMorgan has pointed out, your environment has a lot to do with your lifestyle.

If you live in a desert climate your food choices are much different than if you live in the arctic. Not many vegans in the arctic; have you ever thought about that?

[blufire]

And by the way, does anyone know for sure that plants do not suffer when you kill them?

This is a very wise thought and observation.

I will tell you this . . . . as a very sensitive person to energies and auras (both animal and plants) I suffer greatly at harvest time . . . when acres of corn, soy beans or wheat are harvested.

After the complete harvest of a field and I stand looking across it and the energy is heavy and sorrowful and the colors that swirled and danced are gone. I feel very emotional and depressed for days.

So do I believe plants suffer and feel pain at harvest?? With absolute and complete certainty . . . . . yes they do.

[Zillah]

Re: Eating animals AND Eating plants

I feel we are looking at this with black/white eyes....

I have been there done that, gone through the guilt, fear and sadness wondering how I could eat an animal period - I have done a lot of soul searching and asking of my HS and I feel now I have come to a point of understanding and respect.

What I dont agree with is the mass slaughter of animals, done with greed and disgust. This animal does not leave the earth plane with respect or honor and I feel is a horrific reality to feed the gluttony of today's society.

However, I dont disagree with something I call Eating from the Earth - where an animal (one) is used to feed the body of a human - and it leaves the earth plane with respect, honor and love (Just think of how the Natives hunted the Buffalo - they only would kill few, and use EVERY SINGLE part of it).

Now I no longer support mass-marketed meats, for the fact above AND to understand that everything IS ENERGY - if this animal died with trauma, fear and pain - then what do you think is transmitted into the piece of meat Im eating? The same energy - and this type of energy does not feed my body.

There is a respect and love that goes into surviving (and THRIVING) and using our earth to do so. As humans we tend to think we're on top of the food chain - we EAT everything -- but I disagree -- What about the bacteria and viruses and parasites that FEED ON US? Its a continuous cycle...

Id like to leave with a thought that I read in David Wilcock's new book The Source Field Investigations - where there is a test conducted by a scientist on whether or not plants feel pain. Long story short (also forgive me if I make a few slight reference mistakes) - the plant was set up to a meter to measure the SLIGHTEST shift in its field. The guy tried everything to freak it out, ran up to it with scissors, told it he would kill it, etc - but nothing happened. It wasn't until the scientist actually intentionally PROJECTED this horrible and murderous energy to it, the needle then started to go nuts!! It didnt only end there - the next time he walked into the room with the same scissors, the plant actually held a memory feeling the scientist actually was going to kill it.

Now if plants can feel pain too, experience FEAR when we're going at it with knives to eat it --- then what ELSE is there left for us to eat that's guilt free??

We are all the same, remember that - all connected and all have an energetic soul....

So what is right and what is wrong?

The intention - honor each other and all things and I feel we will have balance - But with the way the world is now - slaughtering each other, animals, FORESTS -- we are far from this. That IMO is what needs to shift.

Much love :)

[Daughter of Time]

We may feel that we are beings with elevated consciousness. We may think we are spiritually evolved. We may think many things, but the point is, we, on planet earth, live in animal bodies and thus we have to feed our bodies what the earth gives us. And I repeat, not all metabolisms were created equal!

Vegetarians may believe that they are spiritually superior because they do not eat the flesh of living beings. They also believe that vegetarians are kinder, less agressive. Well, I could give many examples to the contrary, but I don't want to beat anyone over the head. My aim is never to antagonize, but to be fair.

And as far as my own diet goes, it is at least 80% vegetarian. My animal protein comes mostly from organic eggs, and yes, organic meat or chicken and wild fish. Still, eating as little meat as i do, I feel I have to defend my position because many without animal products, my body suffers on many levels. And I certainly don't feel more spiritual when my body is suffering.

I was a vegetarian for years. It sucked the life out of me! Then I started to consume animal products. I got better. Then I went raw vegan, I started to gain weight from the excessive amounts of fruit i had to eat in order to maintain my energy. So, I have found my balance. Years from now, this might change. But whenever i disrespect what my body tells me it needs, I pay a high price when I do that.

I know a happily married couple. She is vegetarian. He is carnivorous. They make it work because they know that their bodies need different things. And, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, they are the same age. She looks 10 years older than her age. He looks 10 years youngers. I'm not saying this is always the case with everyone who is vegan or carnivore, it's just an observation! And yes, genes have a lot to do with it.

Anyhow, i think I've had my say.

Love and blessings to all of you, carnivorous, vegetarians, vegans! Let's respect one another regardless of what our bodies need and want. And let's respect our bodies for they are the temples that house us. Peace!

[Zillah]

Love and blessings to all of you, carnivorous, vegetarians, vegans! Let's respect one another regardless of what our bodies need and want. And let's respect our bodies for they are the temples that house us. Peace!

amen xoxoxxoxo

[TargeT]

I know a happily married couple. She is vegetarian. He is carnivorous. !


haha.. I bet he was an omnivore not carnivore ;)

I think you said it earlier in the thread.. I agree a lot that the energy that goes INTO the food effects the energy we get OUT of the food & with "meat" a little extra care needs to be taken.. ensure the slaughter isn't a time of terror so the meat isn't soaked with adranaline etc.. make sure the animal is healthy before you harvest it.. if anyone is eating meat from an animal that was fed corn (bovine example) then it doesn't matter how organic it is.... cows aren't meant to eat corn!

[modwiz]

The meat industry, where the planetary screaming never stops. You either support this industry or you don't. Any protest of this statement is defensive and an attempt to avoid personal culpability. It is psychopathic behavior because it refuses to acknowledge the horrific suffering of other beings. Not only does it ignore it, it demands it happen. The way we derive our food and the situation we find ourselves in, being ruled by psychopaths, is not accidental. It is cause and effect.......and karma.

Hunting and other humane ways of killing an animal do not apply here. In fact it is not the slaughterhouse that is the main cause of my rant. It is the inhumane raising of these animals that I refer to. These conditions are so horrific and satanic that the slaughter of the animals becomes the act of mercy. How f*cked up is that?

Bon appetit.

[moonchild]

Simply look at nature. All the carnivorous animals out there are smaller, weaker, and live much shorter lives than vegetarian animals. Also, all the animals you eat to get your protein, are vegetarian animals themselves lol how did they get their protein? And just look at our closest relatives, the apes. Ridiculously strong, and again, apart from eating a few ants and insects, they are pure vegan :)

Actually, chimpanzees are known to kill and eat small monkeys and not all animals we eat are vegan, e.g fish...just saying ;)

[TargeT]

[QUOTE=pharoah21;368750] e.g fish...just saying ;)

Bear is really good if you catch it in the right season; allegator is AMAZING (hmm, eating dinosaurs...) Snake is pretty good also, that's all the preditor's I can think of that I eat...

We don't eat prey animals because they are bigger & stronger; they are bigger because they need the muscle to move a large frame around that has to be large to house all that special equipment to convert plant energy into animal energy, we eat them because they are meant to be eaten ;)

preditors just need to be big enough to take down prey, a dog/wolf digestive track is TINY compared to a cow & its 4 seperate stomachs & miles of intestine (even when scaled apropriately etc..)...


~random thoughts from Alaska

[cloud9]

Every few months a thread like this one comes out and there we go... again and again, it's a never ending controversy of sorts.
I'm from Colombia and I drink coffee every single day as 30 million colombians do, usually people don't give a second thought about it, just when they see or hear in the news about the last "study" regarding the benefits or cons or drinking coffee.

Now, in my country I would dare to say, nobody drinks coffee as in other countries. The first time I had a cup of coffee out of my country was in Puerto Rico some 25 years ago, I was traveling to Europe and the plane stopped there for half an hour, the only thing to do was to go to the cafeteria and have a cup of coffee, it was the most bitter and horrible coffee I had had in my life, I couldn't drink it.

Since living in the States, I never ever ever buy a cup of coffee at starbucks, Mcdonalds, dunking donuts or any other chain, to me it's just undrinkable! With the amount of coffee they use for a cup I can easily prepare 3 or 4.

Regarding meat and being a vegan or vegetarian, think of people from Argentina, Uruguay or Paraguay and perhaps other places. They eat meat in every single meal and we are not talking about shy pieces of meat.

Years ago when still living in Colombia, one of my coworkers was from Uruguay and I used to watch him at lunch time. The amount of meat this guy ate in just one sitting was unbelievable so I made a comment about it and you know what he told me? "You should see what we eat in my country, this is nothing... meat is very expensive here!

I also said something about meat being too harsh to digest and making people old faster, etc., all I can say is that he was laughing and laughing telling me how his people lived to long age and no illnesses, that the secret was in the way you combine your food. Meat should always go with vegetables and no carbs, also they never worry about fat or at least not the fat from the meat.

You see, in Argentina, Paraguay and Uruguay all cattle is raised organic, if I say to them the word organic they wouldn't understand because in latin countries there is no industrial farming but I have seen big places raising chickens and in that cases it's just not good.

IMHO vegans and vegetarians don't look better and I sincerely doubt they live longer. If that was the case it would be really noticeable in some way, let's say that they live to a hundred or more whereas the rest of us would live to around 70.

I really think the difference is in eating food instead of "products" and to have as much fruits and vegetables as possible and less of the rest. Everything in moderation and using common sense.

[161803398]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIcSuA2b_Wc


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbEUHCU_GtM

[161803398]

Gillian McKeith looks like she lives somewhere hot. I've seen what the sun can do to people's skin.

Apparently, so has Nigella:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1378326/Nigella-Lawson-hits-Bondi-beach-burkini.html

[161803398]

I couldn't imagine anyone stupid enough to think that hating the idea of causing grievous pain and suffering to any sentient being meant they had an "elevated" consciousness.

Rejection of tormenting and torturing sentient life is square 1 as far as I'm concerned.

[Warlock]

Based on a lot of current evidence, meat probably shortens life span.

anything to back this up handy?

I have a hard HARD H A R D time believing that...

Simply look at nature. All the carnivorous animals out there are smaller, weaker, and live much shorter lives than vegetarian animals. Also, all the animals you eat to get your protein, are vegetarian animals themselves lol how did they get their protein? And just look at our closest relatives, the apes. Ridiculously strong, and again, apart from eating a few ants and insects, they are pure vegan :)

I have yet to meat......oops.........meet a vegan that has the strength of a silverback gorilla.

Warlock

Sorry, I should have been clear about my comment.

I read a book, many years ago, about the health benefits of becoming a veggie and the author made the point that the silverback is so strong that it can toss a 200 man so many feet and because of its strength, we should quit eating meat and become veggies.

Warlock

[Warlock]

And by the way, does anyone know for sure that plants do not suffer when you kill them?

This is a very wise thought and observation.

I will tell you this . . . . as a very sensitive person to energies and auras (both animal and plants) I suffer greatly at harvest time . . . when acres of corn, soy beans or wheat are harvested.

After the complete harvest of a field and I stand looking across it and the energy is heavy and sorrowful and the colors that swirled and danced are gone. I feel very emotional and depressed for days.

So do I believe plants suffer and feel pain at harvest?? With absolute and complete certainty . . . . . yes they do.

Plants actually SCREAM when you harvest them.:scared:

Warlock

[161803398]

http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/natural.html



Actually, chimpanzees are known to kill and eat small monkeys and not all animals we eat are vegan, e.g fish...just saying

As the guy notes in this article, chimpanzees are also known to sometimes grab infant chimpanzees and smash their brains out on a rock. I don't aspire to be a chimpanzee, anyway.

The soul of the plant is in its roots. If you destroy the roots; you kill the plant. And I don't see many people torturing plants - not yet anyway.

[NeverMind]

http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/natural.html

The soul of the plant is in its roots. If you destroy the roots; you kill the plant. And I don't see many people torturing plants - not yet anyway.

Exactly. You kill an animal, it is dead. Forever.
This is not what happens when you eat vegetables.

(And even the roots can be remarkably resistant. Somebody accidentally ran over my four-o-clock plant bulbs and reduced them to smithereens. Lo and behold, the next summer they were pushing all over the place.)

Not to mention that we still know next to nothing about the modus operandi of plant life AND their survival by possible means of "alchemy" within our bodies. (See essential oils, for example. They are "living", there is no doubt about that. They have vibrational rates consistent with LIFE.)

But most important of all.... let's assume we do do cause pain to plants by eating them.
That would be unfortunate. Of course. But it would be no excuse to start eating meat as well, would it?

It's the same as with the old, oooold (and not particularly insightful) argument that we (some of us, sometimes) wear leather shoes and such.... forgetting that shopping for shoes and such does NOT offer the same freedom of choice as nutrition, and that those shoes and such are by-products.
(Obviously I am not talking fur!)

So, because a person is wearing leather shoes they should abandon meatless nutrition, too?
Where's the logic in that?
How would that be better?

Underlying is a logical fallacy.
Just because a situation isn't perfect, it does not mean that attempts towards it should be abandoned, does it?

[161803398]

Just because a situation isn't perfect, it does not mean that attempts towards it should be abandoned, does it?

I think that is the problem with some vegans ie. wanting perfection and that bothers some people including me. I'm vegan partly in protest; partly because I love animals; partly because I think the meat industry today is completely satanic; partly because our over consumption of meat is destroying the environment and partly because I do really buy into the idea that meat is causing a lot of our illnesses. I feed my dog meat because she is a carnivore. I was feeding her some grain but, being concerned about digestion, I stopped. We can't be perfect even though some would like us to be. But I think we have to try to do what we can.

[NeverMind]

But I think we have to try to do what we can.c

That is exactly it.
It may seem redundant to repeat it, but apparently it cannot be emphasised enough.

[161803398]

Even my dog goes veg two days a week and doesn't seem to mind so she is doing her part too.

[161803398]

And for those of you who don't give a hoot about the satanic slaughterhouses then perhaps you would consider the damage to environment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfSCq_r-oww=share

[Flash]

Ok I must admit

I am jalous, jalous, jalous :o

of those 2 young looking women (the 71 and the 51)

[13th Warrior]

http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/natural.html



Actually, chimpanzees are known to kill and eat small monkeys and not all animals we eat are vegan, e.g fish...just saying

As the guy notes in this article, chimpanzees are also known to sometimes grab infant chimpanzees and smash their brains out on a rock. I don't aspire to be a chimpanzee, anyway.

The soul of the plant is in its roots. If you destroy the roots; you kill the plant. And I don't see many people torturing plants - not yet anyway.

Male Chimps also trade meat for sex with the females...

[13th Warrior]

Simply look at nature. All the carnivorous animals out there are smaller, weaker, and live much shorter lives than vegetarian animals. Also, all the animals you eat to get your protein, are vegetarian animals themselves lol how did they get their protein? And just look at our closest relatives, the apes. Ridiculously strong, and again, apart from eating a few ants and insects, they are pure vegan :)

Actually, chimpanzees are known to kill and eat small monkeys and not all animals we eat are vegan, e.g fish...just saying ;)

Do you know why fish is so healthy? Because they eat fish. - Jerry Seinfeld

[161803398]

Cattle Rancher discusses sustainability of factory farming: http://www.madcowboy.com/01_AboutPS.000.html

[161803398]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tpym5AZ0Ac8

[moonchild]

http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/natural.html



Actually, chimpanzees are known to kill and eat small monkeys and not all animals we eat are vegan, e.g fish...just saying

As the guy notes in this article, chimpanzees are also known to sometimes grab infant chimpanzees and smash their brains out on a rock. I don't aspire to be a chimpanzee, anyway.

The soul of the plant is in its roots. If you destroy the roots; you kill the plant. And I don't see many people torturing plants - not yet anyway.

What about yams,potatoes,rice etc all pulled from their roots!
Basically, everything we eat has life, how do you know the plants don't scream when we cut of their fruits?

[161803398]

What about yams,potatoes,rice etc all pulled from their roots!
Basically, everything we eat has life, how do you know the plants don't scream when we cut of their fruits?

Look into the eyes of some animals who live in factory farm conditions and on their way to the slaughterhouses and then talk about apples or whatever screaming when you pick them off the tree.

I am sure there are people who scream and cry when they get a hang nail. Compare that to someone who has been imprisoned and tortured.

But less well known, I suppose, is the damage to the environment from factory farming which is what that video was about.

[s3nru]

power to my vegetarian friends, but it should be noted there is not a single indigenous culture that doesn't eat meat. I think giving thanks to the mother for all the food she provides is a lot more constructive than creating arbitrary food laws based on anthropomorphism.

That being said, we've really gotten out of touch with the food that we consume with relations to the idea of nutrition and sustenance.

[161803398]

arbitrary food laws based on anthropomorphism

This stupid idea of anthropomorphism not only destroys our connection with life on the planet but prevents many from seeing the plain reality of torture and suffering.

[161803398]

http://www.mfablog.org/2011/12/vegan-athlete-crowned-worlds-toughest-woman.html

[modwiz]

power to my vegetarian friends, but it should be noted there is not a single indigenous culture that doesn't eat meat. I think giving thanks to the mother for all the food she provides is a lot more constructive than creating arbitrary food laws based on anthropomorphism.

That being said, we've really gotten out of touch with the food that we consume with relations to the idea of nutrition and sustenance.

India might prove an interesting study to your observation. There are flesh eaters in India as well. The warrior caste has always partaken, for what should be obvious reasons. The behavioral peculiarities between the different diets is an education in itself. An education that one should pursue individually and only if interested. I believe diet is very important, but I also believe it is a private matter, as are all personal choices.

[Snoweagle]

If you eat ants and insects then you are not pure vegan

Are not ants and insects predominantly vegan anyway? Could they not be classed as "veg on legs"
And do not larvae of insects, which are also edible, have an "earthy" taste, sort of like "spud grub"

Since my stroke, my body revulses ingested processed or manufactured food and I have embraced, quite naturally, veganism with a relish.

Did you know the texture of raw parsnip is almost indistinguishable from raw coconut. The taste of parsnip is sweeter, though this discovery for me was one of thousands of new food and body lessons I have made during my recovery.

[161803398]

Are people as much in denial about the food they eat as about everything else we see going on today? Just trying to wake people up to the fact that the way people eat has an effect on the planet.

http://www.tv.com/web/ted-talks/mark-bittman-whats-wrong-with-what-we-eat-1545629/

[Molly]

I have yet to meat......oops.........meet a vegan that has the strength of a silverback gorilla.

Warlock

I have. hehe

I could never be vegan tho. I love eggs & fish waaaay too much.

As for staying younger looking, I believe it helps also to use all natural skin & hair products. The junk they put in most of these things now a days will do more harm to your body than good. But that being said, there's a lot of companies pumping out products under the disguise of being natural when in fact that are NOT. They still have JUNK all in them but "Natural ingredients" added in. I'm 30 but most people think I am my son's big sister when we are out together. My only secret is scrubbing my face with raw sugar & sea salt that has grapeseed oil & lavender blended in, then I wash it off with soap I handmade myself in a crock pot (when you make home made soap all that is in it after saponification process is pure glycerine & hints of whatever essential oils you may have put in), then I put a little bit of raw, unrefined shea butter lotion I made myself on. Good stuff!

[161803398]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nb6dWrace38=player_embedded

[9eagle9]

She got the boob job from saving the labels off her butter cartons??? ;)


I see what your getting at, i really do, but i have to disagree.

I have more proof to back up my claim that its not the food you eat but how you treat that food and how you live that makes you as you are.

So, here's my proof, feel free to pointlessly deny what is before your eyes. (providing its now working of course!)

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=11693&d=1322832656


You're welcome.

[161803398]

She lives in Australia. Nigella protects her skin from the sun. I used to have a friend who spent every day at the beach and she started wrinkling up when she was 28.

[Arrowwind]

Based on a lot of current evidence, meat probably shortens life span.

anything to back this up handy?

I have a hard HARD H A R D time believing that...

Simply look at nature. All the carnivorous animals out there are smaller, weaker, and live much shorter lives than vegetarian animals. Also, all the animals you eat to get your protein, are vegetarian animals themselves lol how did they get their protein? And just look at our closest relatives, the apes. Ridiculously strong, and again, apart from eating a few ants and insects, they are pure vegan :)

Apes in the wild are not vegetarian.. Jane Goodall documented this.
http://www-bcf.usc.edu/~stanford/chimphunt.html

[Arrowwind]

She got the boob job from saving the labels off her butter cartons??? ;)


I see what your getting at, i really do, but i have to disagree.

I have more proof to back up my claim that its not the food you eat but how you treat that food and how you live that makes you as you are.

So, here's my proof, feel free to pointlessly deny what is before your eyes. (providing its now working of course!)

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=11693&d=1322832656


You're welcome.

cant tell you how many times I've seen these types of contrasts....
People believe they are healthy but still somehow look like hell!

The proof of health is at the end of the line,, how long did you live, what disease did you have,
how did you manage it and was your life enjoyable and meaningful.
We are given our consittution and from there forward it is a creative process. What health we create comes largely from our intelligence, our intuition, how we breathe and mitigate stress as the things we put into our body, both good and bad and how we choose to view and emotionally relate to life.... A strong constitution can be annhilated in a short time and weak constitutions can endure with right action and thought.

[9eagle9]

Holistic medicine doesn't advocate a vegea or vegetarian diet only. It tests the individual for food compatiblity for optimal health on a iidividual level. That may mean for the individual they do better without meat. Holstic practitioners have to keep the welfare of their clients as the priority not use it as a platform to impose their belief systems.

Granted the vegetarian doesn't look healthy so she's probably not--- not suprising that look is the look of amino acid deficiency, and none too healthy red blood cells---integrated holistic healers LOOK healthy otherwise they are just paying lip service to their profession. She'd not be the first person who's belief systems start managing her health. Truly healthy veg people aren't placing any moral judgements on food. But glamour shots lady there isn't a true indicator of health either. Then again she's not professing to be a holistic guru either so.

Then again I'm sure that look much better with the mud, muck, and mulch washed off me and a decent pair of clean clothes and some make up covering me but it doesn't make me healthier. A nice dress can do wonders....lol.

[161803398]

She looks okay with make up:

http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Gillian+McKeith+National+Television+Awards+pEqBjxjmLvll.jpg

January 26, 2011


http://www.zimbio.com/photos/Gillian+McKeith/National+Television+Awards+Inside+Arrivals/pEqBjxjmLvl

[161803398]

Chimpanzees hunt during the dry season when there is a food shortage.

[Eric]

Based on a lot of current evidence, meat probably shortens life span.

anything to back this up handy?

I have a hard HARD H A R D time believing that...

Simply look at nature. All the carnivorous animals out there are smaller, weaker, and live much shorter lives than vegetarian animals. Also, all the animals you eat to get your protein, are vegetarian animals themselves lol how did they get their protein? And just look at our closest relatives, the apes. Ridiculously strong, and again, apart from eating a few ants and insects, they are pure vegan :)

I have yet to meat......oops.........meet a vegan that has the strength of a silverback gorilla.

Warlock

Correct me if I'm wrong but you can't get more vegan than a silver back gorilla.

I think the body needs whatever it needs so eat up everyone and be happy

[161803398]

John Robbins:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9UNrQ_7e44