In praise of the ego.

[Tony]

In Praise of the Ego

Wonderful things, egos.
Where would we be without them?

Er...but where is this ego?
Can it be found?
Does it actually exist?
Ego has been given rather bad press over the years:
what exactly is this ego?

Ego is merely - Consciousness clinging.
We are never without consciousness.
It just needs to be freed from all limitation.

Ego has been made synonymous with sin.
This is a control mechanism.
When you are accused of having an ego...be proud!
Have a big fat ego!
Feel it throughly!
No more guilt!
Laugh in the face of the accusations!

The ego/sin question has been made far too vague -
it has been shrouded in mystical complexity.
Our nature is awareness: that is consciousness.
When this consciousness fixates onto some thing, it limits itself.
So when two individuals with fixated consciousness meet,
they are bound to come into conflict!

This does not have to be a problem.
Merely notice the stance we are taking,
and allow the other the same right.

Of course, this raises the problem of two people with no egos
facing one another....what do they talk about?!

There sometimes seem to be problems on the forum.
One may wonder what sort of stance to take on these issues.
Everyone seems to be right...from their points of view.

Egos fly all over the place!
This doesn't have to be a problem, as it is to be expected:
we are not enlightened yet.
We are going to have a bit of ego clinging until the very last moment
of being sentient!
We are going to have an ego until that moment when those damn demons
have no effect on us whatsoever, and go off to bother some other poor sod
(who will then have to go through the same process)!

And how do we free consciousness from all limitation?
Simply recognise that its essence is pure!
Consciousness, at that moment, becomes totally lucid.

And at that moment, you fall into love.
And you will never come out again!
It's a sense of relief...“I no longer need to hold on to anything,
because everything can be known.”

Of course, here I'm only guessing - but it's bloody good guess!



Tony

[greybeard]

Without ego this episode of the play of consciousness will come to an end.

Chris

[Lisab]

When Im alone with my demons, I feed them and clothe them. It's a song I know but Im sick of running from my demons. Time to face them I reckon.

[Eagle]

When Im alone with my demons, I feed them and clothe them. It's a song I know but Im sick of running from my demons. Time to face them I reckon.

All running does is make you tired, I prefer now to say what is it that you want; here you go, now leave me alone.

[buckminster fuller]

When Im alone with my demons, I feed them and clothe them. It's a song I know but Im sick of running from my demons. Time to face them I reckon.

in the "manual of the warrior of light", Cohello puts it this way : (not exactly the words, read it a few years back..) when the devil speaks to you, let him speak until he's tired of doing so. then go back to meditate...
I found it to be quite efficient, in my case anyway..

[Eagle]

IN praise of the Tony, he is wise beyond his years, an inspiration to us all, Oops there goes his EGO. LOL:o

[another bob]

Ego is merely - Consciousness clinging.

or avoiding.

;)

[Mike]

i've been reading wayne dyer lately, and i think the guy is spot on.

though i'm a reluctant student at times. letting go of the ego is akin to being a child and feeling your father let go of the back seat of your bicycle seat as you're learning to ride. you know it's a good thing, but you're still reaching out for his hand. another example would be dipping your toe into cold water you know would be much easier to simply jump into.

i'm dipping my toe in at this point. not exactly sure where the fear is coming from.

i think Tony makes some good points. perhaps a simple reduction of ego is all that's needed, as opposed to a full-scale elimination.

[greybeard]

Tony said
"And how do we free consciousness from all limitation?
Simply recognise that its essence is pure!
Consciousness, at that moment, becomes totally lucid."

Agree with you Tony

Ego needs past and future to exist.
Keeping in the present moment and focus on what we want not what we dont want works.
Who wants anger, fear and all the negative qualities?
Why the ego does of course, because that strengthens its separate identity.
The ego is the original Divide and conquer. == your with me or against me.
Shakespeare said "Assume a virtue and its yours"

So where would we be without ego?---- Expressing Pure Unconditional Love--- thats were we would be.

Chris

[hectorlca]

When Im alone with my demons, I feed them and clothe them. It's a song I know but Im sick of running from my demons. Time to face them I reckon.

All running does is make you tired, I prefer now to say what is it that you want; here you go, now leave me alone.

I had the chance to speak to a Yogi once and he asked me what I needed help with.

I told him my soul was tired of trying to grasp the magnitude of it all...consciousness, the godhead, the universe, ego...etc.

He smiled and said..."Your soul is not tired...it can not grow tired. Your mind is tired. Let it rest."

He changed so much in my life with just those words, and you've reminded me again.

Cheers.

[Davidallany]

Ego gives a sense of continuity, because it's a system that is supported by our senses and thrives on external conditions, this sense of continuity can be happy or unhappy, in both cases the immediate and after tastes are bitter, because when happiness is removed there is a sense of lose and discontentment, and when unhappiness occurs in the mind of the experiencer/s only, there is discontentment and confusion. This would trigger an intellectual recovery mode called inner chatter, in an attempt to rectify the situation and re-enter or exit a psychological/mental state.

The solution is to focus more, much much more on oneself through scilent or near scilent observation, because believe it or not, the ego is not good at discernment, the ego has always the wrong perception, it always fails the quiz, but it makes a good useful, garbage can.

[13th Warrior]

Good, bad, indifferent...

Too many people hung up on the ego; or think that you need to transcend it...many use it as a scapegoat.

It's a condition or part of this existence learn to accept it; make ego your friend not your enemy.

[Jenci]

He smiled and said..."Your soul is not tired...it can not grow tired. Your mind is tired. Let it rest."




Simple, wise words there, Hectorica. (edited, used wrong name)

Rest in Peace

Words usually reserved for the graveyard.
But I use them now.
I prefer to die (the ego) before my body expires.




"And it is in dying that we are born to eternal life"


Prayer of St Francis

RIP


Jeanette

[Lisab]

Hi Jenci thanks but credit where credits due they were Hectorica's words not mine. He/she linked their quote to mine. But I agree. And I love the Prayer of St Francis . Much love Lisa

[Jenci]

Hi Jenci thanks but credit where credits due they were Hectorica's words not mine. He/she linked their quote to mine. But I agree. And I love the Prayer of St Francis . Much love Lisa

Thanks Lisa, I just spotted it after posting. I've edited the name now.
Jeanette

[Tony]

One indication of 'ego-clinging' is the wind element below the navel raising up to the heart or head.
So we get a bit hot under the collar!
This is said to happen because there is a residue feeling in the
subtle body. A sort of memory of feelings from past experiences are.

This can be counteracted by taking the breath down below the navel and holding it there for a few
second. It's called loong practice.

Remember ego-clinging is consciousness-clinging.
When we hold onto some idea, and do not want to let go, it limits experience.
We then find ourselves being competitive, and that leads to so much inner strife.

Tony

[Deborah (ahamkara)]

Ego seems like more of an interface to me. A tool to navigate and survive in physical form.It is a handy tool, but one needs to begin to observe it with compassion and from a more elevated perspective if one is to merge into the oneness of reality. Manipulators know that to strengthen and keep the ego focused outwardly is a hand way to control a human's true potential. I agree that Wayne Dyer has some great insights and analogies into understanding this part of our awareness.

[mosquito]

It's also a part and parcel of our incarnation. Despite what theymay think, nobody eliminates their ego !

When you say "I", you predicate "you" (duality)
When you say "us" you predicate "them" (duality)
When you say "your ego" you're distinguishing it from "my ego" (duality)

So, in a nutshell - If you refer to yourself using the personal pronoun "I", you have an ego

And you need it if you wish to survive on this plane of existence

[TraineeHuman]

There’s a dilemma when it comes to explaining what in the world the ego really is, for the following reason. Almost any explanation seems to involve grasping at the ego, when the very essence of the ego is grasping. Or it involves resisting the ego, when the very essence of the ego is resisting, indeed all resisting (at a psychological level). Imagine a tooth trying to bite itself.

I’ve invented a way to hopefully avoid this dilemma. What I suggest is that it makes things easier if we talk about the personality instead of the ego. I also suggest there’s a fairly accurate definition of what the personality is, at least as far as the personality has an impact or life in the physical world and the energetic world. According to physics and biology, on a physical and energetic level our thoughts are nothing but electric currents (plus electrochemical reactions which support them, but those are really electric mini-currents). Similarly, according to biology and physics our feelings or emotions are nothing but magnetic energy, connected to the above electric currents by giving some thoughts (some currents) greater or less intensity, and different qualities of vibration (including positive or negative). Also according to physics, this means that our personality is the same thing as the electromagnetic energy field around our bodies.

Let me mention two facts about that energy field. Firstly, we know from physics that any electromagnetic field tends to keep perpetuating itself. Magnetic energy keeps on creating more of the already existing electric current flowing at right angles to it; and vice-versa. Secondly, I happen to know that when we die our personality is separated from us rather like our body is. It actually goes on existing for at least several centuries.

I would also suggest that “the ego” is nothing more nor less than whatever part of that energy field is negative or in opposition to the further development of our awareness beyond the physical level.

The fact that our personality always seeks to perpetuate its own survival tells me something major about the personality. It does have an important purpose. Indeed, these sorts of considerations tell me that the whole reason why we have eyes, ears, and a nose is to protect our body from being killed by accident or by malice etc. That’s what the personality is there for. It’s our physical security guard, keeping watch at all times. It’s actually a good thing, as long as it sticks to its role. I would say it only starts to become the ego when we allow it to become the master of our life instead of the faithful servant.

This is why when we die, the personality has reached its use-by date – because we are moving on to a higher world then.

[Davidallany]

This can be counteracted by taking the breath down below the navel and holding it there for a few
second. It's called loong practice

It is a good method to counteract the discomfort experienced when an episod is triggered. The roots of the trigger must be addressed for a complete normalization. Otherwise the ambiguity will be carried to the next existence and more unnecessary discomfort will befall the experiencer keeping him at bay and unable to progress further. One has to see why he feels or reacts in a certain way, for that seeing a qualified guide is needed.

[Jenci]

It's also a part and parcel of our incarnation. Despite what theymay think, nobody eliminates their ego !



Yes, and only the only thing which would want to eliminate the ego, is the ego itself. If this is seen.....

After awakening/englightment there are still emotions but they are no longer personal.

They are seen as something which is happening to the body and not to "me".

e.g. There is fear, rather than "I am frightened" and there is pain, rather than "I am pain".

When this happens, emotions arise, are felt, then flow through. There is no "me" clinging to them and telling a story about them. They just are rather than "they are because......"

When there is no grasping or story attached to any emotions, the ego, let's call it personality here, can just behave naturally.

When there are no fixed positions based on personal fears and desires then the personality gets to be its unique expression of the Divine, flowing as the Divine rather than in the limited sense of ego.


Jeanette

[Tony]

When we have hope or fear there is a conceptual clinging to an idea..I want and I do not want.
It is only in meditation that one can begin to see this arising at a very subtle level.
One begins to notice subtle pulling away from a still centre.
When one recognises this still centre, then movement in the mind has no effect.

Ego, is consciousness grasping at something, this creates a duality.
This act of grasping is called ego.
Pure consciousness merely perceives, ego reacts!

[Rantaak]

"If you didn't have an ego, you wouldn't know whose mouth to put food in while at a restaurant." - Terence McKenna

[Jenci]

When we have hope or fear there is a conceptual clinging to an idea..I want and I do not want.
It is only in meditation that one can begin to see this arising at a very subtle level.


Yes the grasping is the ego and it can be observed in very subtle ways, until the most subtle becomes very obvious - a physical grasping or contraction in the body as I move from space back to being confined to body.

Meditation is one way to observe this but it is not the only way.

I don't meditate - well not in the way that most people believe meditation is - and yet I observe the ego in all its subtleties. I am meditating all the time.

The need to meditate itself could become a conceptual idea for the ego to cling to. The ego then can become the meditator.




Deliberate daily exercise in the discrimination between the true and the false and the renunciation of the false, is meditation.


Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj



Jeanette

[Tarka the Duck]

When we have hope or fear there is a conceptual clinging to an idea..I want and I do not want.
It is only in meditation that one can begin to see this arising at a very subtle level.


Yes the grasping is the ego and it can be observed in very subtle ways, until the most subtle becomes very obvious - a physical grasping or contraction in the body as I move from space back to being confined to body.

Meditation is one way to observe this but it is not the only way.

I don't meditate - well not in the way that most people believe meditation is - and yet I observe the ego in all its subtleties. I am meditating all the time.

The need to meditate itself could become a conceptual idea for the ego to cling to. The ego then can become the meditator.




Deliberate daily exercise in the discrimination between the true and the false and the renunciation of the false, is meditation.


Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj



Jeanette

The practice of non-meditation is one method. To avocate by-passing the previous stages and disciplines is fraught with potential problems...the old phrase, "Trying to run before one can walk" comes to mind.
It's so tempting to cherry-pick parts of teachings that appeal to our ego, and make us feel good...

Kathie

[Tony]

When I write a posting it is for general use. It is to present an alternative picture, which of course is one of many approaches.
This is a complete system. One tries to go step by step, gradually introducing subtler view points. Most of this depends on fed back.

If one were to show someone how to do something
one would start with basics and then introduce more refined aspects, again this depends on genuine fed back.

One of the problems when replying to threads is that people personalising it.
Saying things like, “I do this or that.” or “I don't do this or that.” “I don't need this or that.”
That is wonderful for that individual, but it can have the effect of squeezing two or more systems into the same tube!

The result is a thread ending up talking at cross purposes and getting very messy!

On subjects such as this, a little quiet reflection is needed... time to digest.
Unfortunately it is also a subject where people can get subtly aggressive, because it is so near 'home'.
This aggression has to be internalised to see where it is coming from.
If it is let loose outwardly it is merely taking part in this world of strife.

We can change, and refine....we are not home yet.

Tony

[jorr lundstrom]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=legzXQlFNjs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=legzXQlFNjs

[crested-duck]

Is not introspection and the full acceptence of that the key to ego awareness? And then we each decide and choose how to conduct ourselves. Is'nt that why our priorities and perceptions and attitudes are constantly changing? Am I going in the right direction to understand the message with this post?? I think so, but a little validation would be comforting to me.

[The One]

what exactly is this ego?

What exactly is anything


Is it all consciousness mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Jenci]

When we have hope or fear there is a conceptual clinging to an idea..I want and I do not want.
It is only in meditation that one can begin to see this arising at a very subtle level.


Yes the grasping is the ego and it can be observed in very subtle ways, until the most subtle becomes very obvious - a physical grasping or contraction in the body as I move from space back to being confined to body.

Meditation is one way to observe this but it is not the only way.

I don't meditate - well not in the way that most people believe meditation is - and yet I observe the ego in all its subtleties. I am meditating all the time.

The need to meditate itself could become a conceptual idea for the ego to cling to. The ego then can become the meditator.




Deliberate daily exercise in the discrimination between the true and the false and the renunciation of the false, is meditation.


Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj



Jeanette

The practice of non-meditation is one method. To avocate by-passing the previous stages and disciplines is fraught with potential problems...the old phrase, "Trying to run before one can walk" comes to mind.
It's so tempting to cherry-pick parts of teachings that appeal to our ego, and make us feel good...

Kathie

Hi Kathie

I wasn't avocating by-passing anything, in fact the opposite. Everything gets included. This is one of the beautiful componants of awakening when we realise there are no shoulds, should nots, no musts, no must not, no right, no wrong - it's all fine, it's all allowed and this is where we can relax and just Be.

I was merely posting because I know some people really struggle with meditation and I was just offering the point as reassurance that mediation is not the only way.

In fact, knowing that you don't need to meditate can actually open you up to be able to meditate......a paradox there.
It's all fine.
Jeanette

[Tony]

Is not introspection and the full acceptence of that the key to ego awareness? And then we each decide and choose how to conduct ourselves. Is'nt that why our priorities and perceptions and attitudes are constantly changing? Am I going in the right direction to understand the message with this post?? I think so, but a little validation would be comforting to me.


Hello Cresteduck,
You are absolutely right!
Once our awareness recognises it's natural state, that could be called the view. Meditation could then be said to be the continuity of that natural state. Conduct could then be said to be compassion and how one relates to the world in that natural state. Conduct could also be said that the world to be one's teacher, as the world reflects back the state of our mind.

I'm saying 'could' because this is according to specific Dzogchen teachings. So it goes view, meditation and conduct.
So conduct is compassion at work, it is the six paramitas in what is called Rigpa.

There are paramitas that are practised with effort, and those that come naturally out of the view.
The paramitas are: Patience, generosity, discipline, perseverance, meditation and transcendent knowledge.

These paramitas can be taken at different levels depending on what vehicle one is on.

OK...now I'm making it too complicated!!!!

You are right, one's conduct is one's conscience, good will, and intention.

Tony

[Tarka the Duck]

When we have hope or fear there is a conceptual clinging to an idea..I want and I do not want.
It is only in meditation that one can begin to see this arising at a very subtle level.


Yes the grasping is the ego and it can be observed in very subtle ways, until the most subtle becomes very obvious - a physical grasping or contraction in the body as I move from space back to being confined to body.

Meditation is one way to observe this but it is not the only way.

I don't meditate - well not in the way that most people believe meditation is - and yet I observe the ego in all its subtleties. I am meditating all the time.

The need to meditate itself could become a conceptual idea for the ego to cling to. The ego then can become the meditator.




Deliberate daily exercise in the discrimination between the true and the false and the renunciation of the false, is meditation.


Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj



Jeanette

The practice of non-meditation is one method. To avocate by-passing the previous stages and disciplines is fraught with potential problems...the old phrase, "Trying to run before one can walk" comes to mind.
It's so tempting to cherry-pick parts of teachings that appeal to our ego, and make us feel good...

Kathie

Hi Kathie

I wasn't avocating by-passing anything, in fact the opposite. Everything gets included. This is one of the beautiful componants of awakening when we realise there are no shoulds, should nots, no musts, no must not, no right, no wrong - it's all fine, it's all allowed and this is where we can relax and just Be.

I was merely posting because I know some people really struggle with meditation and I was just offering the point as reassurance that mediation is not the only way.

In fact, knowing that you don't need to meditate can actually open you up to be able to meditate......a paradox there.
It's all fine.
Jeanette

Hello Jeanette

Sorry if I sounded a bit...intense?!...in my reply!
It's just that what you wrote struck a chord with me: every summer, we do a long Dzogchen retreat, and this year a lot of the teaching was about the subtle "dangers" inherent in this type of non-meditation.
It really hit me that a calm mind is not necessarily in rigpa (natural essence in Tibetan Buddhism).
The teacher went to great pains to explain and demonstrate the difference between natural mind and a state known as alaya vidyana, which still has a sense of effortful mindfulness connected to it - and how very attractive that state can be, while not being the real deal!
He described this state as a cocoon that prevents us from having the experience of natural reality.

Kathie

[Tony]

what exactly is this ego?

What exactly is anything


Is it all consciousness mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Hello One,
Yup...everything is consciousness! Meaning everything is created out of consciousness...in our minds.
We just have to keep mucking about in this dreamlike world, until we realise it is a dream.

But, I hear the cry " I know it is a dream!". .......no we don't, we are still holding on to some sort of belief system!!!
I drop something with my left hand, not noticing that the right hand has just picked it up again.

It takes a lot, a lot of practice. For every lucid moment, I have a hundred un-lucid moments.

Yours trying to be lucid,
Tony

[Jenci]

No problem, Kathie. I understand a little bit more where you are coming from now.

I have no background in Buddhism so I am not really familiar with the traditions but I get the gist of what you are saying about aiming to be in a certain state to avoid reality. Yes, this can cause problems. It may be nice to be in a certain state and some people may be absolutely satisfied with that - job done - and there is nothing wrong with that - but if people wish to deepen the awakening process, then everything that is present here in the moment needs to be experience directly.

Of course there is a tendancy to avoid much of what is arising in the moment, this is the ego seeking pleasure and avoiding pain but as we evolve in this process and are sincere in our move to experience reality we can find ourselves opening up to all experiences more and more.
Jeanette

[Jenci]

Is not introspection and the full acceptence of that the key to ego awareness? And then we each decide and choose how to conduct ourselves. Is'nt that why our priorities and perceptions and attitudes are constantly changing? Am I going in the right direction to understand the message with this post?? I think so, but a little validation would be comforting to me.

Hi Crested-duck,

Yes you are heading in the right direction. You could question, though, where is need to decide and choose how to conduct yourself coming from.

Ego can be very cunning and subtle. Just like Tony said about dropping something with your left hand and your right hand picking it up, literally at the same time without you noticing.

We can become aware of our ego and see how it is acting out and the very next thought which arises is "Now I know what I need to do to conduct myself differently......"

What happens when we question this thought? To help here, we can say that we have Awareness/Consciousness and the ego.

Awareness/Consciousness is just what is. This is just acceptance of everything, exactly as is it. Pure allowing - even of the ego, exactly as that is. It's timeless - no future, no past.
Just this moment arising here now.

The ego is what keeps us seperate from Awareness/Consciousness. To do this it must have separation, division, conflict. It only exists in the past and the future. And it's always got a problem and it is programmed for survival.

The moment you reach a place of 'no problem in the present moment', the ego no longer exists and it has to survive, so it will immediately create a problem by taking your attention out of the present moment and creating a problem in the past or future. Hence the thought arises, "Now I know what I need to do....."
In other words, something is not right and I need to fix it in the future.

When we see the ego doing this, we don't need to do anything.
We don't judge it because only the ego will judge and that is another way it likes to come back in. As soon as ego is spotted and it ceases to exist, then immediately it will be back with how bad it is and therefore something needs fixing in the future.

So we can allow the ego, observe it but not pay attention to what it is says.
Eckhart Tolle calls this watching the thinker but not the thoughts.
We do this from the place of Awareness/Consciousness and the more our attention is here, the more we are viewing from this perspective the more it moves us in our lives, rather than the ego.

Then we find that our behaviour and conduct change in a very natural way.
Perhaps in a way that our ego would never expect.
Then we know it is real and incredibly powerful and we are amazed at how our life is changing.


Then we get fascinated by it - then we realise it is only our ego which gets fascinated. :)

Jeanette