Chinese preparing for war with America?

[Unified Serenity]

I just read this:

Chinese President Hu Jintao on Tuesday urged the navy to prepare for military combat, amid growing regional tensions over maritime disputes and a US campaign to assert itself as a Pacific power.

The navy should "accelerate its transformation and modernisation in a sturdy way, and make extended preparations for military combat in order to make greater contributions to safeguard national security," he said.

Addressing the powerful Central Military Commission, Hu said: "Our work must closely encircle the main theme of national defence and military building."

His comments, which were posted in a statement on a government website, come as the United States and Beijing's neighbours have expressed concerns over its naval ambitions, particularly in the South China Sea.

Several Asian nations have competing claims over parts of the South China Sea, believed to encompass huge oil and gas reserves, while China claims it all. One-third of global seaborne trade passes through the region.

Vietnam and the Philippines have accused Chinese forces of increasing aggression there.

In a translation of Hu's comments, the official Xinhua news agency quoted the president as saying China's navy should "make extended preparations for warfare."

The Pentagon however downplayed Hu's speech, saying that Beijing had the right to develop its military, although it should do so transparently.

"They have a right to develop military capabilities and to plan, just as we do," said Pentagon spokesman George Little, but he added, "We have repeatedly called for transparency from the Chinese and that's part of the relationship we're continuing to build with the Chinese military."

"Nobody's looking for a scrap here," insisted another spokesman, Admiral John Kirby. "Certainly we wouldn't begrudge any other nation the opportunity, the right to develop naval forces to be ready.

"Our naval forces are ready and they'll stay ready."

State Department spokesman Mark Toner said: "We want to see stronger military-to-military ties with China and we want to see greater transparency. That helps answer questions we might have about Chinese intentions."

http://news.yahoo.com/chinas-hu-urges-navy-prepare-combat-160509787.html



This is more saber rattling. May cooler heads prevail.

[jackovesk]

http://rense.com/1.imagesH/china_dees.jpg

PS - That goes for (Australia) and to all other Countries who have allowed the (Globalists &/or Govts.) to destroy their local Manufucturing Industry Sectors as well ..!

[whenyournex2me]

can we just get it over with already?

[DeDukshyn]

I just read this:

Chinese President Hu Jintao on Tuesday urged the navy to prepare for military combat, amid growing regional tensions over maritime disputes and a US campaign to assert itself as a Pacific power.

The navy should "accelerate its transformation and modernisation in a sturdy way, and make extended preparations for military combat in order to make greater contributions to safeguard national security," he said.

Addressing the powerful Central Military Commission, Hu said: "Our work must closely encircle the main theme of national defence and military building."

His comments, which were posted in a statement on a government website, come as the United States and Beijing's neighbours have expressed concerns over its naval ambitions, particularly in the South China Sea.

Several Asian nations have competing claims over parts of the South China Sea, believed to encompass huge oil and gas reserves, while China claims it all. One-third of global seaborne trade passes through the region.

Vietnam and the Philippines have accused Chinese forces of increasing aggression there.

In a translation of Hu's comments, the official Xinhua news agency quoted the president as saying China's navy should "make extended preparations for warfare."

The Pentagon however downplayed Hu's speech, saying that Beijing had the right to develop its military, although it should do so transparently.

"They have a right to develop military capabilities and to plan, just as we do," said Pentagon spokesman George Little, but he added, "We have repeatedly called for transparency from the Chinese and that's part of the relationship we're continuing to build with the Chinese military."

"Nobody's looking for a scrap here," insisted another spokesman, Admiral John Kirby. "Certainly we wouldn't begrudge any other nation the opportunity, the right to develop naval forces to be ready.

"Our naval forces are ready and they'll stay ready."

State Department spokesman Mark Toner said: "We want to see stronger military-to-military ties with China and we want to see greater transparency. That helps answer questions we might have about Chinese intentions."

http://news.yahoo.com/chinas-hu-urges-navy-prepare-combat-160509787.html



This is more saber rattling. May cooler heads prevail.

What I read into this. USA is China's ***** already and their politicians know that. China has unbeknownst to most greatly embarrassed the USA in the last couple years or so. During a grand display of US Naval might while the USS Kittyhawk and an entire flotilla of defense ships -- destroyers, frigates and cruisers were doing routine practice to "show up" North Korea while it was being mouthy about it's nukes, a Chinese sub somehow managed to get between the defense circle and the lock onto the Kittyhawk completely undetected. It then surfaced to the awful shock and surprise of the US Navy. It could have sunk the US naval flagship which has at its disposal more firepower than all of WWII weapons combined -- a devastating blow to the US's ego. Around the exact same time another Chinese sub launched a missile off the coast of California - again completely undetected. That missile was capable of delivering a multitude of separate nuclear warheads. Another huge blow to the US's military ego. To top it all off, directly after these events is when China publicly announced the downgrading of US currency to one level above above "junk". Chinese basically said "we can take you right out and here's proof"

Most of this information - especially that on the Kittyhawk incident was actually reported by MSM, but you had to look real hard, and it was washed out very quickly by the USA's propaganda machine.

These are real events that happened within the last few years. Now look at the tone of washington while addressing the Chinese these days ... it all shows. What does this mean on the grand scheme of things? ... who knows ...

[58andfixed]

It may be 'saber rattling' for posturing on other positions or issues, however "Customary International Law" [aka CIL] isn't so clear-cut, and legal belligerent assertion is but one method of establishing borders or possession.

The mere fact that the same potential preemptive action isn't even considered against China for owning nuclear armaments, while Iran is so considered on simple speculation, already provides a hint to the power that U.S.A. concedes to China.

Not something else to lose sleep over in addition to so many other issues at this point in time.

- 58

[Ria]

If enough of us focus on a desire for peace and in-vision that now and in the future, that is what we will get. The question is do you wont it?

[eric charles]

can we just get it over with already?

Have you fallen on your f*cking head . The 200 million man Army would wipe us out in 2 months , War with China and Russia will not bode well for North Americans at all !

[WhiteFeather]

War with China, Damn whos gonna do all our dirty labor work now? The Corporate Pig's in america who send out all our work from america dont want any war with China.

[Kimberley]

I posted this on a thread similar to this one a few days ago...posting it here also..

I truly KNOW there is in NO WAY going to be a WW 3 ... It is NOT going to happen. End of story!

And FYI China owns a GREAT amount of the United States already .

Here is a good article to start your research about that...

"US federal deficit: how much does China own of America's debt? The US Federal Deficit is an indicator of America's reliance on China. Find out which countries are propping up the US economy"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/18/us-federal-deficit-china-america-debt


Much LOVE & PEACE to us all :luv: :peace:

[WhiteFeather]

http://rense.com/1.imagesH/china_dees.jpg

PS - That goes for (Australia) and to all other Countries who have allowed the (Globalists &/or Govts.) to destroy their local Manufucturing Industry Sectors as well ..!

LMFAO This photo just about sums it up for us Americans whom are sleeping at the wheel., hypnotized imbeciles are we.

[exchange student]

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can we just get it over with already?

Have you fallen on your f*cking head . The 200 million man Army would wipe us out in 2 months , War with China and Russia will not bode well for North Americans at all !

Be careful there Eric, China might have a big army in numbers but the technology, the experience and the weapons are all in favour of the USA.

However WW3 is close around the corner; if what is happening in Iran continues like this we might see another alliance war with the occidental and the eastern World. It will be hard to predict a “winner”; I have a feeling that by the time the war is over no one will know who won….

Have a look for yourself, here’s a list of the world’s biggest military powers up to date.
http://www.globalfirepower.com/

Cheers,

Steve

[Unified Serenity]

Be careful there Eric, China might have a big army in numbers but the technology, the experience and the weapons are all in favour of the USA.

However WW3 is close around the corner; if what is happening in Iran continues like this we might see another alliance war with the occidental and the eastern World. It will be hard to predict a “winner”; I have a feeling that by the time the war is over no one will know who won….

Have a look for yourself, here’s a list of the world’s biggest military powers up to date.
http://www.globalfirepower.com/

Cheers,

Steve

What a joke. We get all our circuit boards and computer stuff from china! What makes you think they have not put in some code to disable our stuff at the flip of a switch? China has openly despised America, they have stolen our technology, music, intellectual property, they have falsly jimmied their currency for years, they do not practice free trade by any stretch of the imagination, and they have proven how ruthless they can be to their enemies. Clinton gave them the capability to hit us with pin point accuracy with their missiles. Before Clinton did that, they would be lucky to hit within hundreds of miles of their given target.

Who the hell knows what they are importing into OUR ports which THEY control? They have their own economic zones here already! I am not trying to stir up fear, just ringing a wake up bell. China and Russia are working together. This is no trivial matter.

[RMorgan]

¤=[Post Update]=¤

[/COLOR]

can we just get it over with already?

Have you fallen on your f*cking head . The 200 million man Army would wipe us out in 2 months , War with China and Russia will not bode well for North Americans at all !

Be careful there Eric, China might have a big army in numbers but the technology, the experience and the weapons are all in favour of the USA.

However WW3 is close around the corner; if what is happening in Iran continues like this we might see another alliance war with the occidental and the eastern World. It will be hard to predict a “winner”; I have a feeling that by the time the war is over no one will know who won….

Have a look for yourself, here’s a list of the world’s biggest military powers up to date.
http://www.globalfirepower.com/

Cheers,

Steve

We can´t forget that wars aren´t all about firepower. Strategy is crucial.

Also, in case of a war, I´m sure that Russia and China are together, which forms a really powerful alliance.

Cheers,

Raf.

[Carmody]

Be careful there Eric, China might have a big army in numbers but the technology, the experience and the weapons are all in favour of the USA.

However WW3 is close around the corner; if what is happening in Iran continues like this we might see another alliance war with the occidental and the eastern World. It will be hard to predict a “winner”; I have a feeling that by the time the war is over no one will know who won….

Have a look for yourself, here’s a list of the world’s biggest military powers up to date.
http://www.globalfirepower.com/

Cheers,

Steve

What a joke. We get all our circuit boards and computer stuff from china! What makes you think they have not put in some code to disable our stuff at the flip of a switch? China has openly despised America, they have stolen our technology, music, intellectual property, they have falsly jimmied their currency for years, they do not practice free trade by any stretch of the imagination, and they have proven how ruthless they can be to their enemies. Clinton gave them the capability to hit us with pin point accuracy with their missiles. Before Clinton did that, they would be lucky to hit within hundreds of miles of their given target.

Who the hell knows what they are importing into OUR ports which THEY control? They have their own economic zones here already! I am not trying to stir up fear, just ringing a wake up bell. China and Russia are working together. This is no trivial matter.

And that which purports to represent America has been working with others for a very long time. This is also no trivial matter. That is...if indeed I should chose to invest myself in 'their' (meaning:all purported players) ping-pong game of gaming my psychology.

Gaming it..... in order to engage my baser instincts on the survival level, for whatever purpose they may be doing such a thing.

[Unified Serenity]

¤=[Post Update]=¤

[/COLOR]

can we just get it over with already?

Have you fallen on your f*cking head . The 200 million man Army would wipe us out in 2 months , War with China and Russia will not bode well for North Americans at all !

Be careful there Eric, China might have a big army in numbers but the technology, the experience and the weapons are all in favour of the USA.

However WW3 is close around the corner; if what is happening in Iran continues like this we might see another alliance war with the occidental and the eastern World. It will be hard to predict a “winner”; I have a feeling that by the time the war is over no one will know who won….

Have a look for yourself, here’s a list of the world’s biggest military powers up to date.
http://www.globalfirepower.com/

Cheers,

Steve

We can´t forget that wars aren´t all about firepower. Strategy is crucial.

Also, in case of a war, I´m sure that Russia and China are together, which forms a really powerful alliance.

Cheers,

Raf.

I will also add that whomever is President of the United States matters a great deal as well. I do not believe Obama would lift one finger to stop us from being attacked. I believe he secretly hopes we will be attacked to teach us a lesson. Obama loves the commies, fascists, socialists, dictators around the world, and the last thing he wants is a strong America. Are we better off than we were 3 years ago? Do you really trust Obama to have our back? I don't care how many tin terrorists he pretends to take out, we are talking about his beloved China and Russia here. The man loves communism. Look at his friends, who he has supporting him, and who he has surrounded himself with in government. The writing is on the wall if we are going to be attacked, do you really want Obama? I don't want Gingrich either. I don't like any of them. Well, ok, RP is ok in my book.

When the elites want to further a socialist cause in America they put a Democrat in the Whitehouse. When they want to make money from war they put in a Republican. It's really that simple. It's time for me to meditate, center, and see a peaceful and honorable leadership in America and around the world.

[eric charles]

¤=[Post Update]=¤

[/COLOR]

can we just get it over with already?

Have you fallen on your f*cking head . The 200 million man Army would wipe us out in 2 months , War with China and Russia will not bode well for North Americans at all !

Be careful there Eric, China might have a big army in numbers but the technology, the experience and the weapons are all in favour of the USA.

However WW3 is close around the corner; if what is happening in Iran continues like this we might see another alliance war with the occidental and the eastern World. It will be hard to predict a “winner”; I have a feeling that by the time the war is over no one will know who won….

Have a look for yourself, here’s a list of the world’s biggest military powers up to date.
http://www.globalfirepower.com/

Cheers,

Steve

How can we have the curve of Technology when it is China themselves who are doing most of the R+D , we have no idea what China Possess for military Tech , hell they even have a Space program ! They are a communist country , their secrets are well better hidden then ours ! Just to extrapolate here , We didnt know what the U.S.S.R had til they crashed and burned and boy were we suprised when they had 35,000 nuclear warheads !

Also their stealth submarines , which just popped up in the middle of a U.S carrier Task force exercise !

Do not underestimate the Chinese my friend , they are much much stronger then they lead us to believe , add that most of the world hates the U.S's guts for murdering their children , you guys are Royally F*CKED in my opinion ,

[Unified Serenity]

, you guys are Royally F*CKED in my opinion ,

You Northern neighbors are round eyes just like us. You better believe your nation won't fair so well either. The world has been happy to take American aid and military support when THEY need and want it, but it's the first to say F. U. Yankee because ultimately they have despised our leadership, blessings, and strength all along. This is a deep spiritual problem for all of us, not just America.

[Cidersomerset]

Hi all It all gets very complicated we have done several threads on this, It looks like its about oil and resources again and China is claiming the south China sea.
Now with Western money from their sweat shops they have , surprise, surprise built up and modernised their armed forces..I think thats how far they will go for
now....They have some of the most advanced computor tech in the world at the momment and could as been said disrupt comunications around the world already..

Then it all gets wierd and wonderfull, with the theory that the Chinese people already own large parts of the US, the national parks for example from the Nasara
debt....Also the TPTB already run Russia, China and the West so any war would be planned by them. Then we are off on speculation again...

NCnYlcWA3Ls


http://informationfarm.blogspot.com/2010/05/ion-china-owns-united-states.html

http://informationfarm.blogspot.com/2011/10/ion-clinton-group-responds-to-ions.html

http://informationfarm.blogspot.com/2010/07/ion-nesara-us-debt-owed-to-st-germain.html

[jcocks]

I don't see a full-blown world war... But I see us getting BLOODY close.

[Unified Serenity]

When the people cry for peace and safety the world governments will have just the solution. It will be a false peace, a false security, and then we will truly see the monster behind the "Peace" movement.

[Kristin]

No one wins in war, no one. Everyone is hurt including the man who pulls the trigger or presses the button. Talk about Karma running over your Dogma. I recall from the Koran, "IF a man saves one life he saves the entire world." Likewise from the Bible, "Thou shalt not kill." On a world wide level we need to combine our outright distain for the senseless murdering of children, women and men for any reason. Our only recourse is to protest peacefully for peace and raise our voices for noncompliance with regards to stopping the insanity that is pushing these ridiculous policies into action. Follow the money. At the end of this tale are a bunch of bankers run by a select few who stand to gain a great deal. They do not care about the planet, they do not care about you nor I. Why? Obviously they don't need to. They wouldn't kill their own planet if they didn't have a plan to leave it. Simple. I believe we need to convince the solders to not comply. I think the Veterans of all Nations are key in this. I would like to see more military stop and refuse to take orders to kill.

Yes Eric, we are all really F*CKED. ALL including everyone. The victims are, the policy makers are, the rest of us are for watching it happen, and the men and women who feel forced or compelled to enact the policies are. There is no grey area here. We are all in this together and only together can we stop it.

From the Heart,
Wormhole

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1784117

[jackovesk]

Be careful there Eric, China might have a big army in numbers but the technology, the experience and the weapons are all in favour of the USA.

However WW3 is close around the corner; if what is happening in Iran continues like this we might see another alliance war with the occidental and the eastern World. It will be hard to predict a “winner”; I have a feeling that by the time the war is over no one will know who won….

Have a look for yourself, here’s a list of the world’s biggest military powers up to date.
http://www.globalfirepower.com/

Cheers,

Steve

What a joke. We get all our circuit boards and computer stuff from china! What makes you think they have not put in some code to disable our stuff at the flip of a switch? China has openly despised America, they have stolen our technology, music, intellectual property, they have falsly jimmied their currency for years, they do not practice free trade by any stretch of the imagination, and they have proven how ruthless they can be to their enemies. Clinton gave them the capability to hit us with pin point accuracy with their missiles. Before Clinton did that, they would be lucky to hit within hundreds of miles of their given target.

Who the hell knows what they are importing into OUR ports which THEY control? They have their own economic zones here already! I am not trying to stir up fear, just ringing a wake up bell. China and Russia are working together. This is no trivial matter.

Not to mention this Unified Serenity...

Clinton's Foreign Policy

http://www.clintonmemoriallibrary.com/graphics/billhill2.jpg http://www.clintonmemoriallibrary.com/graphics/nuclear-bomb.jpg

China


There is a growing number of accusers saying President Clinton betrayed this country when he allowed massive transfers of American Secrets to the Chinese in exhange for illegal contributions to his re-election campaign.


It was through Bill Clinton's efforts that the Chinese launched American communications satellites and it was his efforts that made it possible for the Chinese to improve their guidance systems of its rockets and long-range nuclear missles. Until recently, China's space program was largely a failure ... that was until May 2, 1998 when they successfully launched a Chinese Long March 2C rocket carrying two U.S. satellites into space. Their success was made possible by technical assistance from the United States. It should be noted that Bernard Schwartz, the chairman of Loral Space and Communications, one of the firms that sold satellites to the Chinese, was the Democratic Party's largest contributor in 1996. (cited in "Who sold Red China our ICBM secrets?," Keith Wilkerson, Christian Crusade, June 1998).


Thanks to President Clinton the Communist Chinese are now able to hit major American cities with their nuclear missiles and has spurred on the deadly nuclear arms race in Asia. Witness the recent nuclear bomb tests by India, Pakistan, and North Korea. A CIA report says that 13 of China's 18 long-range strategic missiles have single nuclear warheads aimed at U.S. cities. In another 1996 Defense Intelligence Agency report it's stated that China was improving its CSS-4s and other long-range missiles with upgraded guidance systems and increased accuracy, propulsion and warheads, including the use of multiple warheads. (cited in "Who sold Red China our ICBM secrets?," Keith Wilkerson, Christian Crusade, June 1998).


http://www.clintonmemoriallibrary.com/clint_foreign.html

[Kristin]

I'm curious as to if China has been working with the money lenders of the world or if they are autonomous in their actions. I know that historically they have devalued the yen, if they took that action now they wouldn't need to have a war as we are all already beaten economically. I am interested in who they have financial alliances with, not in terms of lending or buying debt but in terms of working behind the curtain with any of the elite to enact a plan. They are too powerful to be ignored. We talk openly about those that are creating our economic situation (ie banks) but little is said as to where China is sitting at the round table of the global elite.

The way that China's workers are treated and protesters kept in fear in their military state, the strict slavery economy that they have... It is very much the same as the direction that the rest of the world is heading. Are they not the template? Have they not accomplished their goal? Is this not the very same goal that is being striven for by the western corporate world? Who are the global elite sitting behind the throne in China? Who is pulling their strings or is this simply a military dictatorship that has succeeded in it's goal? I'll be looking into this and would like to hear back from anyone who has already researched into the finer details of China's corporate elite.

From the Heart,
Wormhole

[WhiteFeather]

Let it be known Peeps, China is way far advanced in every area, this includes the military as well. Read below, this was in 2006.

http://voices.yahoo.com/chinese-submarine-beats-navys-best-sonar-operators-123168.html
Since the end of the Cold War, the United States Navy has considered itself to be the world's premier anti-submarine warfare force. But a recent, generally overlooked by the "mainstream" media, news item has cast doubt on the Navy's self-bestowed smugness.
In a story posted on the GlobalSecurity.org web site, a submerged Chinese Song-class submarine was able to follow the USS Kitty Hawk (CV-63) on 26 October 2006 without being detected by the carrier's crew. The presence of the Chinese sub was revealed only after it had surfaced approximately 5 miles from Kitty Hawk and was spotted by one of the carrier's aircraft on a routine patrol flight.

According to Jane's Fighting Ships, the Song class is the first diesel-electric powered submarine to be completely designed and built by 's Peoples Liberation Army and represents a significant step forward in design and construction. This class of submarine utilizes a German-built diesel power plant that is encased in insulation designed to minimize the sub's acoustic "signature" while submerged. Song-class boats utilize hull-mounted passive (listening) SONAR as well as a bow-mounted active/passive SONAR unit, both reportedly purchased from . Western military authorities also note that, in addition to being difficult to detect and follow, the Song diesel-electric submarine has the capability of launching both cruise and ballistic missiles while submerged. It is the cruise missile capability that has raised eyebrows in the west. As one commentator remarked, "I don't know the range of a Chinese antiship missile but I would think that it is more than 5 miles."

This incident should also call into question the validity of American estimates as to the capability and operational parameters of China's substantial sales of antiship warfare technology (such as Silkworm cruise missiles) to Iran and other states that the US sees as a potential threat in the Indian Ocean / Persian Gulf area.

China has publicly maintained the position that its naval forces are "of a defensive nature" (sometimes described as'green water navy') and not created or designed for offensive operations such as sea lane interdiction or quarantine of another nation's port facilities. However, the incident involving the Kitty Hawk and the Song diesel-electric submarine demonstrates that such assurances should not be considered inviolate.

The fact that a "primitive," non-nuclear powered, submarine was able to slip within 5 miles of one of the American Navy's most sophisticated offensive platforms should have sounded alarms at every naval facility from Pearl Harbor to the Washington Naval Yard. However, as noted above, there has been scant attention devoted to the issue. There are probably several reasons for this ranging from "indifference" on behalf of the Navy's "top brass" to "selective leaking" of the circumstances behind the Kitty Hawk incident with the latter possibility being used to "fool" the Chinese Navy into believing that its submarine forces are more capable than even in the most optimistic of warfare planning scenarios.

If the purpose of a military project or policy is deterrence, then the use of subterfuge regarding the offensive capabilities of a potential opponent is self-defeating from the outset because such a policy will only make an adversary more likely to resort to force. We can only hope that such is not the intention of American naval warfare planners.

[Kristin]

As I follow the money... I'll add my links. The Power Struggle Among China's Corporate Elite...
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/10/14/the_power_struggle_among_chinas_elite

From the Heart,
Wormhole

"No one knows what kind of battles might be taking place now in the central government compound in Beijing where the key leaders live and work. The politburos under Hu and Wen have been watertight. Nothing much gets out about who supports whom, and who is in favor, who in danger. Rumors have swirled around Wen for some time about his lack of support in the party and his occasionally falling foul of Hu. He appeared in the southern city of Shenzhen in late August talking up political reform, leading to speculation that he was trying to create at least some legacy on the more liberal side of the party. But before anyone could get too excited, Wen produced the strongest condemnation of the Japanese when they detained the captain of a stray Chinese ship near disputed sea territory in September. Was he opportunistically compensating for being accused of being too soft earlier in the year? We simply don't know. Wen's recent interview with Fareed Zakaria -- censored by state media -- only adds to the uncertainty. Unlike with Western rulers, however, the habit of producing lengthy autobiographies after politicians leave office has yet to catch on in China, so we will probably never find out for sure what exactly has been going on."

This is old... 2004, but may be telling...

"Sizing Up China's Corporate Elite
S&P ranks the top 100 listed companies of this rising economic powerhouse and examines their outlook for growth


China's economic ascendancy is increasingly the focus of corporations and business analysts around the world. While much has been written about the country's overall growth in recent years, much less is known about the companies helping to generate it. To help investors gain a better understanding of China's corporate sector, Standard & Poor's has conducted a statistical survey of the Top 100 listed corporations (view the full list). This is the third year Standard & Poor's has reviewed the leading corporations. The selection criteria are based on the latest available revenue size.



It's important to note that even though these companies are some of the largest in China, they still only account for a relatively small portion of the overall market. Generally, China's industries are highly fragmented. For example, the top five steel companies account for only one-third of the country's production. By contrast, the five biggest West European operators generate about 60% of total supply.

FAMILIAR FACES. For many of the smaller companies outside the Top 100 list, such as the unlisted state-owned enterprises (SOEs), market conditions are much more competitive and challenging. Historically, China's SOE sector has overwhelmingly emphasized job preservation over the efficient use of capital. According to the World Bank, in 2001 China had 89,000 money-losing SOEs -- roughly half of the group.

Of the companies in the Top 100 list, 87% were the same as last year. The companies entering the list for the first time were mostly the result of recent listings, such as China Netcom Group, Air China, and Semiconductor Manufacturing International. Some companies fell off the list because their revenue didn't grow as quickly as the rest of the top corporations -- or even declined, such as Brilliance China Automotive and Shenzhen Kaifa Technology. In all, 13 companies disappeared, reflecting a churn rate like that of previous years. (See BW Online's in-depth coverage of the yuan revaluation and its implications.)

Most companies on the list are in the heavy-industry sector, reflecting the frenzied development of the economy's infrastructure. The largest sectors include steel production, with 22 companies, followed by the petroleum and petrochemical industries, with 14 companies, most of which are related to the Sinopec Group.

BUBBLING CRUDE. From a revenue perspective, the picture looks a bit different. The petroleum and petrochemical sector accounting for 41% of total revenue of the companies surveyed, while telecom and steel production accounted for 17% and 13%, respectively. The top 10 companies accounted for 56% of the Top 100's revenue last year, the same as in 2003.

The largest outfits in this survey are the big SOEs. China Petroleum & Chemical, the biggest petrochemical and refining company in China, ranked first in sales, with its annual revenue reaching 591 billion yuan in 2004. PetroChina, the largest producer of crude oil and natural gas, generated the most profits, with a net income of 102.9 billion yuan in 2004. This was a significant 47.9% increase over the previous year attributable to higher oil prices.

Other large companies in the upper decile of the Top 100 list were China Mobile, the leading cell-phone operator; China Telecom, the largest fixed-line telecom company; CNOOC, in charge of offshore oil and gas exploration and production activities; and Baoshan Iron & Steel, the top steel manufacturer. Here's the list of the 10 largest (you can view the full list here).

Revenue (Mil. Yuan) Net Profit (Mil. Yuan)
2004 2003 2004 2003
China Petroleum & Chemical 590,632 417,191 36,019 19,011 Petroleum and Petrochemical
PetroChina 388,633 303,779 102,927 69,614 Petroleum and Petrochemical
China Mobile (Hong Kong) 192,381 158,604 42,004 35,556 Telecommunications
China Telecom 161,212 118,451 28,023 24,686 Telecommunications
China United Telecommunications 79,332 67,636 4,387 4,217 Telecommunications
China Netcom Group 64,922 59,898 9,248 (11,111) Telecommunications
Minmetals Development 64,593 52,123 598 307 Metal and Mining
Baoshan Iron & Steel 58,638 44,460 9,395 6,976 Steel Production
CNOOC 55,222 40,515 16,186 11,535 Petroleum and Petrochemical
China Resources Enterprises 50,044 36,932 1,704 1,551 Other



Although overall earnings for the Top 100 companies have been rising over recent years, there are many disparities. Some parts of the economy show extremely strong growth, such as the commodity-dependent corporations, which benefit from higher oil and mineral prices. But others are facing significant competitive pressures and cost inflation.

About 78% of the businesses in the survey saw their earnings rise in 2004. Earnings of the Top 100 corporations were up 41% in 2004, vs. a rise of 75% in 2003. However, if we exclude raw-materials-related companies, such as those in the steel, minerals, and petroleum sectors, earnings were up only 14%. The most profitable concerns continue to be the large state-controlled companies, which enjoy relatively protected market positions. The table below details median earnings trends for the Top 100:

Net Income (Mil. Yuan) % Increase
2004 742.1 40.5
2003 528.2 75.4
2002 301.1 12.2
2001 268.3 (7.0)
2000 288.6 25.4



A key takeaway from the survey -- the operating margin squeeze affecting Chinese companies that depend on raw materials for manufacturing inputs, known as downstream industries. The median operating margin for the Top 100 was 10.4% in 2004, down slightly on the previous year. However, when the numbers are broken down, it can be seen that the upstream companies -- the producers of manufacturing inputs -- have been enjoying strong growth in their operating margins while the downstream manufacturers have been suffering from margin compression. For many downstream producers, manufacturing input costs are rising while their output prices are constrained, or even falling, because of overcapacity and intense competition.

COAL CRUNCH. A chief culprit has been the higher-than-expected price of coal, which crimped the 2004 performance of high-energy-consuming companies, such as those producing cement, power, and aluminum. The power producers reported that their coal costs rose 14% to 33% last year, resulting in a significant margin squeeze. Industry leader Huaneng Power International posted a 1.3% drop in its bottom line. Apart from coal prices, operating costs have also been hit hard by higher oil and transportation costs.

Another key trend gleaned from the survey: Overall, the biggest Chinese manufacturers appear to be easing up on debt leverage. Total debt to capital for China's Top 100 declined steadily to 27.4% in 2004, from 28.6% in 2000. Most companies relied heavily on bank debt, although some larger ones have used offshore capital markets.

A characteristic of many of the large listed corporations in China is a high level of cash and liquid investments. Of the 100 companies on S&P's list, 41% ended 2004 in a net cash position. However, a lot of the hoard will be used to pursue asset acquisitions and other growth opportunities. Transportation, principally airlines, was among the most heavily leveraged sectors, at 55% total debt to capital at the end of 2004 (this ratio has not been adjusted for operating leases).

Reflecting continued growth in passenger and cargo volume, all the major airlines in China have been aggressively expanding and updating their fleets. Boeing predicts that China will become the second-largest commercial aviation market, after the U.S., within 20 years, with that growth spurring demand for roughly 2,300 new planes over the same period. The major airlines have also been spending money on industry consolidation.

POWER HUNGRY. The energy sector has shown the largest jump in debt leverage in recent years. Power companies have been aggressively building up their capacity to satisfy China's insatiable thirst for energy. Huaneng Power, the largest listed independent power concern, for example, has nearly doubled its generation capacity in the last five years.

What can investors expect for China's upper-tier companies? The rapid economic growth seen in 2004 will slow in 2005 but will still remain strong. Structural constraints, tighter bank-lending policies, and a downturn in business sentiment in some sectors will limit growth -- but not to a damaging degree. Accelerating industrialization and urbanization will lead to further expansion in private investment and domestic consumption over the long term.

Despite Standard & Poor's expectation that China will continue to sustain strong growth rates, there are still important credit issues to watch out for:

Shrinking margins: High input costs and increased price competition because of overcapacity will cause more margin compression for some sectors -- in particular, autos, power, building materials, petrochemicals, and electronics. For example, the domestic auto industry has posted a 59% year-over-year decline in total profit in the first quarter of this year. This was the third quarterly decline in a row.

Austerity measures: Aiming to keep growth in certain economic segments from overheating, Beijing will impose new controls on the property-related sectors. Standard & Poor's remains cautious about some of the smaller property developers, especially those concentrated in Shanghai, and producers of cement and structural steel products, because of increased uncertainty over their demand and price outlook on the back of mortgage-tightening measures.

Quickening consolidation: Given the emergence of overcapacity and input-cost inflation, a pickup in consolidation is expected. New licensing requirements by the government are also helping to squeeze out some of the smaller unlicensed manufacturers. Consolidation is most likely to happen within carmaking, property development, low-end steel manufacture, and mobile-phone production.

The process could be drawn out, however, and may at times be highly political. Unemployment in China's rust-belt towns is high, and closures of state-owned factories only exacerbate it.

Yuan revaluation: The big beneficiaries of a stronger Chinese currency would be the airlines, because of the significant translation gains from their foreign currency debt exposure, and refineries, which would benefit from lower import costs for raw materials. On the other hand, a stronger yuan would increase the margin pressure on export-oriented companies, especially those with weak competitiveness that lack the pricing power to pass on costs to customers, and downstream chemical companies, which have a high percentage of dollar-based revenue.

Uncertainties in foreign expansion: Capital-spending levels are expected to grow strongly for some of the larger companies as they seek to restructure and expand their businesses. This could entail overseas investments and merger and acquisition activity (see BW Online, 7/27/05, "China's Global Urge to Merge"), which would raise significant operating risks and compound financial risk brought about through higher debt leverage. Chinese companies are starting to make outward investments, such as Lenovo's acquisition of IBM's PC business and the state-owned oil companies' investment in offshore energy projects. Of particular note has been CNOOC's announcement that it made a competing bid to Chevron's $16.4 billion offer for Unocal.

Potential global slowdown: Another important risk factor to consider will be how global demand evolves over the next two to three years. China's economy is highly open to exports and imports. The large current-account deficit in the U.S., which can be blamed on budget deficits and a low savings rate, could slow the pace of economic growth. A U.S. slowdown would lead to a decline in consumer confidence, exacerbate competition, and further depress profit margins in China.

Overall, there are many reasons to be cautiously optimistic about China's long-term outlook. However, it remains a classic emerging market, with all the hidden dangers and opportunities.

In the coming years, some companies will not survive the race, but others will change their management mentality, upgrade their technology, and emerge as internationally competitive enterprises. It will be interesting over the next decade to see which outfits emerge out of the current Top 100 list as the big winners. You can be sure rest of the world will be watching closely. "


Bailey and Song are analysts for Standard & Poor's Greater China corporate ratings group, based in Hong Kong

[eric charles]

The peoples of the world are sick and tired of the White man's (Europe and the Anglo-American Empire)use of brute force , rape and arrogance , the hatred for us is deeply rooted !

nice find Whitefeather , exactly what i was saying in my previous posts !


Unified Serenity - Ohhh i know we wont be spared , But at least the World views Canada mostly as a Friend and not foe , weve never invaded a country per say , but we will go down with Uhmerica non the less !

Its time Canada cuts the String , the oil , the water ,the electricity and tells America to F*ck Off

[JoshERTW]

Do not underestimate the Chinese my friend , they are much much stronger then they lead us to believe , add that most of the world hates the U.S's guts for murdering their children , you guys are Royally F*CKED in my opinion ,

Agreed in principle, but its all of NATO that's in trouble. Appearing weaker than you actually are is just straight up art of war stuff. So is getting your enemy to destroy itself internally, which the US economic/corporate/congressional complex is doing quite well without any military intervention.

[Kristin]

Here is a recent and excellent article: http://www.knowledgeatwharton.com.cn/index.cfm?fa=viewArticle&Articleid=2405&languageid=1

The military seems to be in control of the Chinese corporations, in China there seems to be no separation between the government and the military... keep that in mind when reading this.
Form the Heart,
Wormhole

"Government-owned firms with party officials running the show continue to set the pace. According to Liu, officials, who often have offices inside these companies, appoint and remove the CEOs and other senior executives at will. For example, in 2003, Wei Liucheng, CEO of state-controlled CNOOC, one of China's largest oil companies, was suddenly named governor of Hainan province. "He knew nothing of the change until the party's announcement. It was a shock to him," Liu says."

[exchange student]

I believe that at some point in time there will be a war with China. The only reason we are not at war with China is because we need them for their products and they need us because we buy it. However this relation is principally built on debts which at some point will collapse. Being in China's position looking at the occidental economic situation (Massive American debt, the Euro zone crisis) it would be a good time for a war. (Not saying that i want this to happen, in fact I would love to hear otherwise). Many Occidentals are furious to what China is doing in regards to paten infringement’s like Unified Serenity said, but America being a nation driven by profit would never put their anger towards China and turn it into a war. Right now I can only see the "benefit" for China for a war of this proportion. “Benefit” as something that must be done because at some point the debt will overcome economic relations and one of them will want their money back…
All this to say that tensions in Iran would be a good public reason for this war.

Thx for all the criticism, keep it coming,

Steve

[Carolin]

Sounds like you've all forgotten that we are just puppets on a string. TPTB will just invent a reason or cause a disaster that will make the populace back their next war. We're dispensable after all. War is a wonderful way to divide and conquer. Humanity will never take it's power back as long as we are bickering or killing each other!!

[Kristin]

Eric,
I understand your emotional responses. I am an American now living under Canadian Law for the last five years. There are too many similarities to name under Harper that are occurring... Police used as militia to stop freedom of speech, big companies diminishing small business, corporate elite white washing then getting elected and ignoring policy. Public opinion being ignored, running blindly into and supporting any military operations that subject innocent people to pain and loss, ruining the environment, biased trade agreements with China, and increasing debt situation, failure to recognize the sovereign First Nations... etc. It appears to me that Canada has a big mess to clean up itself, including being under the umbrella of England and their banking policies. I agree that the US is a mess, hell every country is (save perhaps Iceland if the volcanoes would stop spouting off). Keep in mind that Canada is by no means innocent or clean. Better off without exporting resources to the US? Maybe, but even better to stop exporting resources to China for that matter. I concluded from seeing both sides of the issue that both countries need to clean up their act. Pointing the finger one way over the border is just an emotional reaction and I understand it. Americans are not happy with what is going on, China's citizens are also not happy with what is going on, and neither are Canadians. We are all being USED. Let's try to concentrate on solutions that are inclusive of humanities best interests regardless of where on the planet we happen to be. People need to feel empowered over their own lives and be able to freely make choices that lead them to being the best humans they can be and realize their best given potentials. That means not being a cog in a factory wheel when you could have been a musician, scientist, philosopher, etc. The emotions you have are valid, very valid. I hope that you can use this energy in a constructive way to help uplift humanity and the others around you being subverted by the few who wield power in such an unjust fashion.

From the Heart,
Wormhole

[eric charles]

I completely agree wormhole .

Im just trying to point out , that America has been the main problem a HUGE OBSTACLE for the world , for the devolution of manking ! and it must be taken out if we are to move forward as a species . Im not talking about the American people , im talking about the power structure that resides from within it . The E.U also needs to go down the poop shout !


The Chinese for me , are very intellictual people , very level headed and cool , with a population of 1.3 billion , im sure if they didnt like their system , if would have been overthrown a long time ago .
The Chinese are humanities' friends in my opinion . Yes it is communist , but thats only an economic system . Its not synonymous with dictatorship as most people would have you believe .

[Unified Serenity]

I completely agree wormhole .

Im just trying to point out , that America has been the main problem a HUGE OBSTACLE for the world , for the devolution of manking ! and it must be taken out if we are to move forward as a species . Im not talking about the American people , im talking about the power structure that resides from within it . The E.U also needs to go down the poop shout !


The Chinese for me , are very intellictual people , very level headed and cool , with a population of 1.3 billion , im sure if they didnt like their system , if would have been overthrown a long time ago .
The Chinese are humanities' friends in my opinion . Yes it is communist , but thats only an economic system . Its not synonymous with dictatorship as most people would have you believe .

I understand your sentiments. Please do not confuse the governments with the people of any country. I have travelled all over the world and it's one of the reasons I have the spiritual viewpoints that I do have. People are very similar worldwide, it is those in power who cause the problems. Be careful not to fall into one more paradigm of us vs. them.

" I will not comply" should be my new moniker.

[etm567]

Obama loves the commies, fascists, socialists, dictators around the world, and the last thing he wants is a strong America.

Just curious: How do you define socialism and communism? I for one do not belong to the crowd who calls Obama communist and socialist. But then I may have a very different definition of communism and socialism than you do. Of course, national socialism is a different kettle of fish.

Obama is a staunch capitalist. Clearly, I lie on the left side of the political spectrum, and I consider myself to be a progressive. Most progressives find Obama problematical because he seems to be carrying water for the DLC, the centrist, pro-corporate power part of the Democratic Party. Wall Street has supported Obama with a lot of money, and so has the rest of big business.

Personally, I think some socialism is a very good idea, and unfortunately Obama has not pushed that objective at all.

Many Americans who actively decry socialism and communism frequently take advantage of what would seem to many to be socialist programs, such as government subsidies to farmers, often very wealthy farmers, to name just one. There is one politician currently running for President of the USA whose family regularly takes hundreds of thousands of dollars in government subsidies. But this same politician thinks sick people and unemployed people do not deserve similar "government subsidies," because that smacks of socialism.

Money from the government is money from the government, and money from the government is provided by the rest of us paying our taxes. If it is socialism to give the unemployed money, then it is likewise socialism to give family farmers money.

And, by the way, our current system here in the USA can hardly be called a free market. It is far from free. Our healthcare industry, for example, controls that industry thoroughly. And corporate forces have taken over the regulatory controls of the government, so that the drug companies are running the FDA, and corporate ag is running the USDA, and on and on. Consumers are regularly denied the option to choose whether to eat genetically modified foods or not, as they clearly would choose not to eat them. That is not a free market. That is a market controlled by corporate forces.

There's plenty of corporate welfare, as well. More money from the government. More socialism for corporations.

Obama may be a socialist for the corporations, but he isn't a socialist for the people. And I don't really believe he's a socialist for the corporations, either. I think he's just doing his best to stay alive.

[eric charles]

I completely agree wormhole .

Im just trying to point out , that America has been the main problem a HUGE OBSTACLE for the world , for the devolution of manking ! and it must be taken out if we are to move forward as a species . Im not talking about the American people , im talking about the power structure that resides from within it . The E.U also needs to go down the poop shout !


The Chinese for me , are very intellictual people , very level headed and cool , with a population of 1.3 billion , im sure if they didnt like their system , if would have been overthrown a long time ago .
The Chinese are humanities' friends in my opinion . Yes it is communist , but thats only an economic system . Its not synonymous with dictatorship as most people would have you believe .

I understand your sentiments. Please do not confuse the governments with the people of any country. I have travelled all over the world and it's one of the reasons I have the spiritual viewpoints that I do have. People are very similar worldwide, it is those in power who cause the problems. Be careful not to fall into one more paradigm of us vs. them.

" I will not comply" should be my new moniker.

I understand , but make no mistake , ive never ever fell for either paradigm , Ive freed myself from those illusions 8-10 years ago .
Yes we can put a lil bit of the blame on certain individuals ,on all of us in fact , for letting this happen , we are still sitting on our pc's not doing much about it , getting informed yes , but taking action ........... not so much

[RMorgan]

Obama loves the commies, fascists, socialists, dictators around the world, and the last thing he wants is a strong America.

Just curious: How do you define socialism and communism? I for one do not belong to the crowd who calls Obama communist and socialist. But then I may have a very different definition of communism and socialism than you do. Of course, national socialism is a different kettle of fish.

Obama is a staunch capitalist. Clearly, I lie on the left side of the political spectrum, and I consider myself to be a progressive. Most progressives find Obama problematical because he seems to be carrying water for the DLC, the centrist, pro-corporate power part of the Democratic Party. Wall Street has supported Obama with a lot of money, and so has the rest of big business.

Personally, I think some socialism is a very good idea, and unfortunately Obama has not pushed that objective at all.

Many Americans who actively decry socialism and communism frequently take advantage of what would seem to many to be socialist programs, such as government subsidies to farmers, often very wealthy farmers, to name just one. There is one politician currently running for President of the USA whose family regularly takes hundreds of thousands of dollars in government subsidies. But this same politician thinks sick people and unemployed people do not deserve similar "government subsidies," because that smacks of socialism.

Money from the government is money from the government, and money from the government is provided by the rest of us paying our taxes. If it is socialism to give the unemployed money, then it is likewise socialism to give family farmers money.

And, by the way, our current system here in the USA can hardly be called a free market. It is far from free. Our healthcare industry, for example, controls that industry thoroughly. And corporate forces have taken over the regulatory controls of the government, so that the drug companies are running the FDA, and corporate ag is running the USDA, and on and on. Consumers are regularly denied the option to choose whether to eat genetically modified foods or not, as they clearly would choose not to eat them. That is not a free market. That is a market controlled by corporate forces.

There's plenty of corporate welfare, as well. More money from the government. More socialism for corporations.

Obama may be a socialist for the corporations, but he isn't a socialist for the people. And I don't really believe he's a socialist for the corporations, either. I think he's just doing his best to stay alive.

Agree 100%. I frequently see people mistakenly using the terms "socialism", specially North-Americans. I guess it´s a vestige of the brainwashing effects of the Cold War propaganda. ;)

Cheers,

Raf.

[eric charles]

Obama loves the commies, fascists, socialists, dictators around the world, and the last thing he wants is a strong America.

Just curious: How do you define socialism and communism? I for one do not belong to the crowd who calls Obama communist and socialist. But then I may have a very different definition of communism and socialism than you do. Of course, national socialism is a different kettle of fish.

Obama is a staunch capitalist. Clearly, I lie on the left side of the political spectrum, and I consider myself to be a progressive. Most progressives find Obama problematical because he seems to be carrying water for the DLC, the centrist, pro-corporate power part of the Democratic Party. Wall Street has supported Obama with a lot of money, and so has the rest of big business.

Personally, I think some socialism is a very good idea, and unfortunately Obama has not pushed that objective at all.

Many Americans who actively decry socialism and communism frequently take advantage of what would seem to many to be socialist programs, such as government subsidies to farmers, often very wealthy farmers, to name just one. There is one politician currently running for President of the USA whose family regularly takes hundreds of thousands of dollars in government subsidies. But this same politician thinks sick people and unemployed people do not deserve similar "government subsidies," because that smacks of socialism.

Money from the government is money from the government, and money from the government is provided by the rest of us paying our taxes. If it is socialism to give the unemployed money, then it is likewise socialism to give family farmers money.

And, by the way, our current system here in the USA can hardly be called a free market. It is far from free. Our healthcare industry, for example, controls that industry thoroughly. And corporate forces have taken over the regulatory controls of the government, so that the drug companies are running the FDA, and corporate ag is running the USDA, and on and on. Consumers are regularly denied the option to choose whether to eat genetically modified foods or not, as they clearly would choose not to eat them. That is not a free market. That is a market controlled by corporate forces.

There's plenty of corporate welfare, as well. More money from the government. More socialism for corporations.

Obama may be a socialist for the corporations, but he isn't a socialist for the people. And I don't really believe he's a socialist for the corporations, either. I think he's just doing his best to stay alive.


Obama is no socialist , he's a Fascist . It makes me laugh out loud when ppl call him a Marxist Communist , they have no idea what the f*ck they are talking about . Communism would have all those thugs on wall street hung in public for everyone to see first of all . 2nd Commuinsm is a system of true distribution of Wealth .

[modwiz]

I completely agree wormhole .

Im just trying to point out , that America has been the main problem a HUGE OBSTACLE for the world , for the devolution of manking ! and it must be taken out if we are to move forward as a species . Im not talking about the American people , im talking about the power structure that resides from within it . The E.U also needs to go down the poop shout !


The Chinese for me , are very intellictual people , very level headed and cool , with a population of 1.3 billion , im sure if they didnt like their system , if would have been overthrown a long time ago .
The Chinese are humanities' friends in my opinion . Yes it is communist , but thats only an economic system . Its not synonymous with dictatorship as most people would have you believe .

I understand your sentiments. Please do not confuse the governments with the people of any country. I have travelled all over the world and it's one of the reasons I have the spiritual viewpoints that I do have. People are very similar worldwide, it is those in power who cause the problems. Be careful not to fall into one more paradigm of us vs. them.

" I will not comply" should be my new moniker.

Thanks for that US. Your point is the elephant in the conversation.

[Unified Serenity]

Like this:

-W6NnAs-tlI

Dt7zWQMHLFY

IUfo-RxkXA8

[Darla Ken Pearce]

Any scenario that prompts US AGAINST THEM mentality is part of duality and is a 3D construct not worth our energy and thought. It's the old stick being used against yet another "ENEMY." We are moving out of duality ~ if you will allow it.

Posting these endless threads is redundant and keeps the dark alive in our own minds. It's time to be uplifted instead and seek cooperation and unity from the heart and not our mind. Please do not energize these dark aspects of ourselves any further. This is a choice and you have the ability by what you are choosing here to be uplifted or to continue the fall into further darkness.

Be aware! Threads like this filled with negativity prompt fear ~ as do many others on Avalon. In this manner, we allow and energize the old systems to continue in all ways including financial. We as Americans owe China a ton of money for goods provided. We can't pay it to them. They've propped us up but our financial system and corrupt political arena is in it's death throes. It can't be halted any further. So, it's not rocket science here. It's a new version of the cold war being promoted. Old saw, new coloring, and cooking.

Doesn't it get just so old about now? Yet we fall for it again and again and again. Well, it's not necessary.

This is your choice and you seem to have made it.

Oh, let us plot against these bad guys ~ and add another "endless" war to the landscape as if killing and maiming in Iraq, Afganistan, Libya, Pakistan, Iran, Serbia, Japan, Russia, and all over the world in dozens of places isn't enough for your taste and appetite. Okay ~ Let's add CHINA?

My goodness ~ Are we blinded still to what is happening around us? Does this dark aspect of ourselves still work in the light of day?

Can you smell MANIPULATION? War mongering? Sub-humans versus the Hero's? White hats versus Black hats? Yellow versus White? Since we've already covered red, brown, black, and orange.

Well, carry on ~ but another vista and perspective is available when you finally tire of this one in duality.

How about love, honor, cherish, and work in unity of purpose for the benefit of all? Ring a bell?

When you tire of these games, they will vanish like dew on a Summer morning.

[eric charles]

Any scenario that prompts US AGAINST THEM mentality is part of duality and is a 3D construct not worth our energy and thought. It's the old stick being used against yet another "ENEMY." We are moving out of duality ~ if you will allow it.

Posting these endless threads is redundant and keeps the dark alive in our own minds. It's time to be uplifted instead and seek cooperation and unity from the heart and not our mind. Please do not energize these dark aspects of ourselves any further. This is a choice and you have the ability by what you are choosing here to be uplifted or to continue the fall into further darkness.

Be aware! Threads like this filled with negativity prompt fear ~ as do many others on Avalon. In this manner, we allow and energize the old systems to continue in all ways including financial. We as Americans owe China a ton of money for goods provided. We can't pay it to them. They've propped us up but our financial system and corrupt political arena is in it's death throes. It can't be halted any further. So, it's not rocket science here. It's a new version of the cold war being promoted. Old saw, new coloring, and cooking.

Doesn't it get just so old about now? Yet we fall for it again and again and again. Well, it's not necessary.

This is your choice and you seem to have made it.

Oh, let us plot against these bad guys ~ and add another "endless" war to the landscape as if killing and maiming in Iraq, Afganistan, Libya, Pakistan, Iran, Serbia, Japan, Russia, and all over the world in dozens of places isn't enough for your taste and appetite. Okay ~ Let's add CHINA?

My goodness ~ Are we blinded still to what is happening around us? Does this dark aspect of ourselves still work in the light of day?

Can you smell MANIPULATION? War mongering? Sub-humans versus the Hero's? White hats versus Black hats? Yellow versus White? Since we've already covered red, brown, black, and orange.

Well, carry on ~ but another vista and perspective is available when you finally tire of this one in duality.

How about love, honor, cherish, and work in unity of purpose for the benefit of all? Ring a bell?

When you tire of these games, they will vanish like dew on a Summer morning.



We cant end this unfortunetly until the Empire is thrown on its ass . Sitting down with them and playing patty cakes and being nice is not going to end this

[Unified Serenity]

Oh, Darla let me ask you this. If I saw Freddie Krueger in a corner of your house would you want me to point him out? If I saw him sharpening his weapons would you want me to tell you? If I saw him attacking your family would you want me to help stop him?

Or would it be better to just sit back and think peaceful thoughts towards Freddy boy and not interfer in his chosen path?

Just curious, and I know from the spiritual place you speak. I identify with it, but I also know we are not there yet and are not expected to sit back like lambs to the slaughter. I am a spirit warrior, watchman, and been trained all my life for this mission. I do not expect everyone to be as I am for we all have our own missions.

Much love,

Serenity



Any scenario that prompts US AGAINST THEM mentality is part of duality and is a 3D construct not worth our energy and thought. It's the old stick being used against yet another "ENEMY." We are moving out of duality ~ if you will allow it.

Posting these endless threads is redundant and keeps the dark alive in our own minds. It's time to be uplifted instead and seek cooperation and unity from the heart and not our mind. Please do not energize these dark aspects of ourselves any further. This is a choice and you have the ability by what you are choosing here to be uplifted or to continue the fall into further darkness.

Be aware! Threads like this filled with negativity prompt fear ~ as do many others on Avalon. In this manner, we allow and energize the old systems to continue in all ways including financial. We as Americans owe China a ton of money for goods provided. We can't pay it to them. They've propped us up but our financial system and corrupt political arena is in it's death throes. It can't be halted any further. So, it's not rocket science here. It's a new version of the cold war being promoted. Old saw, new coloring, and cooking.

Doesn't it get just so old about now? Yet we fall for it again and again and again. Well, it's not necessary.

This is your choice and you seem to have made it.

Oh, let us plot against these bad guys ~ and add another "endless" war to the landscape as if killing and maiming in Iraq, Afganistan, Libya, Pakistan, Iran, Serbia, Japan, Russia, and all over the world in dozens of places isn't enough for your taste and appetite. Okay ~ Let's add CHINA?

My goodness ~ Are we blinded still to what is happening around us? Does this dark aspect of ourselves still work in the light of day?

Can you smell MANIPULATION? War mongering? Sub-humans versus the Hero's? White hats versus Black hats? Yellow versus White? Since we've already covered red, brown, black, and orange.

Well, carry on ~ but another vista and perspective is available when you finally tire of this one in duality.

How about love, honor, cherish, and work in unity of purpose for the benefit of all? Ring a bell?

When you tire of these games, they will vanish like dew on a Summer morning.

[RMorgan]

Oh, Darla let me ask you this. If I saw Freddie Krueger in a corner of your house would you want me to point him out? If I saw him sharpening his weapons would you want me to tell you? If I saw him attacking your family would you want me to help stop him?

Or would it be better to just sit back and think peaceful thoughts towards Freddy boy and not interfer in his chosen path?

Just curious, and I know from the spiritual place you speak. I identify with it, but I also know we are not there yet and are not expected to sit back like lambs to the slaughter. I am a spirit warrior, watchman, and been trained all my life for this mission. I do not expect everyone to be as I am for we all have our own missions.

Much love,

Serenity

Hey United Serenity,

I hate Freddie Krueger! I would fricking decapitate him, for sure!! I would send him lots of positive energies directly from my shotgun to his ugly head!

I didn´t know your badass side!! Nice to know you´re a warrior as well! :)

Cheers,

Raf.

[modwiz]

1.Doesn't it get just so old about now?

2.Can you smell MANIPULATION? War mongering?

3.How about love, honor, cherish, and work in unity of purpose for the benefit of all?



1.Older than dirt.

2. Like an uncapped cesspool.

3.How about it? Sounds like a plan and solution to me.

Can we get the crowd to agree?

[Unified Serenity]

I'm reminded in spirit that the singers went before the badass army as front line. I'm glad we know who the singers are. Just don't diss the army please :D

Not intended At anyone, just used modwiz' quote cause he sounds like a singer though I know he is an energetic badass like myself when he wants to be.





1.Doesn't it get just so old about now?

2.Can you smell MANIPULATION? War mongering?

3.How about love, honor, cherish, and work in unity of purpose for the benefit of all?



1.Older than dirt.

2. Like an uncapped cesspool.

3.How about it? Sounds like a plan and solution to me.

Can we get the crowd to agree?

[Darla Ken Pearce]

Until you can see the Light of a new day, you will be filled with darkness and duality constructs. United Serenity ~ I need no protection from Freddy Kruger. He's an illusion of your own manifestation and Hollywood's not mine. Those who walk in light draw light to themselves and are not in need of these old illusions.

Please know and realize that you energize the dark and allow it to continue working against each and every one of us. Freddy Kruger is just another aspect of fear mongering. Are you still locked in this vista?

This needs to end. Love, honor, compassion will out in the end. No contest. Please, carry on with your own version of the dark if you so desire. You can easily morph into Freddy yourself as long as your focus is on the illusion of his existence. It is the promotion of these ideas of danger, reaction, solution, that keeps us in the fear matrix. You energize it even now. Again and again you are doing it.

These are choices and constructs of our own minds. Turn towards your heart now as this other way hasn't worked very well so far. Thanks for caring about knives and Freddy tho. It shows you are still human.

I ask and call forth the Divine Aspect of yourself instead...and so it is...kind begets kind. Love begets love. Terror begets terror. Enemies beget enemies. All choices being made right now in this instant of time.

[modwiz]

As a former Boy Scout, be prepared was our motto. Given the uncontrolled bellicosity of the USA, it only seems wise and prudent to not show a bully your belly. I have avoided fights by just changing my stance, indicating, and signaling, that I was not a soft target. Psychology is everything. How else does a fraction of one percent control the world?

You do have to be able to deliver the 'goods' if called upon, but bullies hate a fair fight.

[eric charles]

We dont have to bring about violence to have change , but to get pissed off like a raging bull and make it known we wont take bull**** !

[Unified Serenity]

I love you Darla!


Until you can see the Light of a new day, you will be filled with darkness and duality constructs. United Serenity ~ I need no protection from Freddy Kruger. He's an illusion of your own manifestation and Hollywood's not mine. Those who walk in light draw light to themselves and are not in need of these old illusions.

Please know and realize that you energize the dark and allow it to continue working against each and every one of us. Freddy Kruger is just another aspect of fear mongering. Are you still locked in this vista?

This needs to end. Love, honor, compassion will out in the end. No contest. Please, carry on with your own version of the dark if you so desire. You can easily morph into Freddy yourself as long as your focus is on the illusion of his existence. It is the promotion of these ideas of danger, reaction, solution, that keeps us in the fear matrix. You energize it even now. Again and again you are doing it.

These are choices and constructs of our own minds. Turn towards your heart now as this other way hasn't worked very well so far. Thanks for caring about knives and Freddy tho. It shows you are still human.

I ask and call forth the Divine Aspect of yourself instead...and so it is...kind begets kind. Love begets love. Terror begets terror. Enemies beget enemies. All choices being made right now in this instant of time.

[Axman]

First thing we would do is turn on the HAARP and shut down all communication. World wide


The Axman

[modwiz]

Oh, Darla let me ask you this. If I saw Freddie Krueger in a corner of your house would you want me to point him out? If I saw him sharpening his weapons would you want me to tell you? If I saw him attacking your family would you want me to help stop him?

Or would it be better to just sit back and think peaceful thoughts towards Freddy boy and not interfer in his chosen path?

Just curious, and I know from the spiritual place you speak. I identify with it, but I also know we are not there yet and are not expected to sit back like lambs to the slaughter. I am a spirit warrior, watchman, and been trained all my life for this mission. I do not expect everyone to be as I am for we all have our own missions.

Much love,

Serenity

Hey United Serenity,

I hate Freddie Krueger! I would fricking decapitate him, for sure!! I would send him lots of positive energies directly from my shotgun to his ugly head!

I didn´t know your badass side!! Nice to know you´re a warrior as well! :)

Cheers,

Raf.

Not for nothing, Freddy Krueger is fake and therefore a fake threat. Just like international terrorism and the Muslim threat.

The same people and minds who bring you fake enemies in the world also control Hollywood. Coincidence?

[Jenci]

1.Doesn't it get just so old about now?

2.Can you smell MANIPULATION? War mongering?

3.How about love, honor, cherish, and work in unity of purpose for the benefit of all?



1.Older than dirt.

2. Like an uncapped cesspool.

3.How about it? Sounds like a plan and solution to me.

Can we get the crowd to agree?

It reminds me of the quote " You keep getting the same lessons until you learn them"

That has always applied in my life. Always.
Jeanette

[Unified Serenity]

Gee, ok I could have chosen any number of sickos who are real and alive. If you think we have no real enemies, then I was misreading you.

Shakes head and walks out.





Oh, Darla let me ask you this. If I saw Freddie Krueger in a corner of your house would you want me to point him out? If I saw him sharpening his weapons would you want me to tell you? If I saw him attacking your family would you want me to help stop him?

Or would it be better to just sit back and think peaceful thoughts towards Freddy boy and not interfer in his chosen path?

Just curious, and I know from the spiritual place you speak. I identify with it, but I also know we are not there yet and are not expected to sit back like lambs to the slaughter. I am a spirit warrior, watchman, and been trained all my life for this mission. I do not expect everyone to be as I am for we all have our own missions.

Much love,

Serenity

Hey United Serenity,

I hate Freddie Krueger! I would fricking decapitate him, for sure!! I would send him lots of positive energies directly from my shotgun to his ugly head!

I didn´t know your badass side!! Nice to know you´re a warrior as well! :)

Cheers,

Raf.

Not for nothing, Freddy Krueger is fake and therefore a fake threat. Just like international terrorism and the Muslim threat.

The same people and minds who bring you fake enemies in the world also control Hollywood. Coincidence?

[eric charles]

1.Doesn't it get just so old about now?

2.Can you smell MANIPULATION? War mongering?

3.How about love, honor, cherish, and work in unity of purpose for the benefit of all?



1.Older than dirt.

2. Like an uncapped cesspool.

3.How about it? Sounds like a plan and solution to me.

Can we get the crowd to agree?

It reminds me of the quote " You keep getting the same lessons until you learn them"

That has always applied in my life. Always.
Jeanette


Sort of Like , doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results

[Jenci]

1.Doesn't it get just so old about now?

2.Can you smell MANIPULATION? War mongering?

3.How about love, honor, cherish, and work in unity of purpose for the benefit of all?



1.Older than dirt.

2. Like an uncapped cesspool.

3.How about it? Sounds like a plan and solution to me.

Can we get the crowd to agree?

It reminds me of the quote " You keep getting the same lessons until you learn them"

That has always applied in my life. Always.
Jeanette


Sort of Like , doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results

Yes......and everytime I did the same thing, I got the same results.


The solutions are not yet apparant because collectively we are still in the mindset of the illusion.

......As you step back, more comes into view.

But we have to learn the lesson first.
Jeanette

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Another thing that has always applied to my personal life is that the lesson got more painful each time I failed to learn it.


Jeanette

[modwiz]

Gee, ok I could have chosen any number of sickos who are real and alive. If you think we have no real enemies, then I was misreading you.

Shakes head and walks out.





Oh, Darla let me ask you this. If I saw Freddie Krueger in a corner of your house would you want me to point him out? If I saw him sharpening his weapons would you want me to tell you? If I saw him attacking your family would you want me to help stop him?

Or would it be better to just sit back and think peaceful thoughts towards Freddy boy and not interfer in his chosen path?

Just curious, and I know from the spiritual place you speak. I identify with it, but I also know we are not there yet and are not expected to sit back like lambs to the slaughter. I am a spirit warrior, watchman, and been trained all my life for this mission. I do not expect everyone to be as I am for we all have our own missions.

Much love,

Serenity

Hey United Serenity,

I hate Freddie Krueger! I would fricking decapitate him, for sure!! I would send him lots of positive energies directly from my shotgun to his ugly head!

I didn´t know your badass side!! Nice to know you´re a warrior as well! :)

Cheers,

Raf.

Not for nothing, Freddy Krueger is fake and therefore a fake threat. Just like international terrorism and the Muslim threat.

The same people and minds who bring you fake enemies in the world also control Hollywood. Coincidence?

US. I acknowledge real threats when they are there. It is the fake ones. which predominate and feed the MIC that I am referring to. Both of the two wars we are fighting were for fake reasons. The track record is one of fraud. We fight the enemies of corporate plans. If you have not heard of Smedley Butler already, please google him and have a cursory read. Every war we have been in was a setup. WWll included.

With out a necessary war in modern history just what are we discussing here. What is the threat? I am aware of the USA as a threat to world peace. The Anglo-American-Zionist union is the common enemy of the planet. Is this who you are referring to? If so, I am in agreement about a clear and present danger.

I think consciousness is the remedy. The creators of wars do not fight them, only duped populaces do.

[eric charles]

I agree modwiz , on the other hand , it is up to the Duped populace to throw them on their asses ! Then and only then can we focus our energies and evolve from there .

[modwiz]

I agree modwiz , on the other hand , it is up to the Duped populace to throw them on their asses ! Then and only then can we focus our energies and evolve from there .

Yes. I like it in concept. Duped masses does not speak very well for the masses. To be honest, the average person is almost a moron, with intelligence being a rare commodity. I think there is a non compliant path to take. Violent overthrow by the masses has an ugly feel to it. I would prefer Americans use their guns to make a forceful no statement to a fascist police state. There is a different level of intelligence required for smooth operations than that required to know a bad idea when it stares you in the face. Even beasts have self preservation in their DNA.

[crested-duck]

The way it looks to me is everyone wants to end the maddness, but also to learn truth and become better humans and live peacefully amongst all. I'm all for that,but also a realist. Like said in another thread somewhere: (Time to put on your big girl panties and big boy undies and make a choice and take a stand. If you lose your life for the bettering of all it's ok. TPTB can take your life but not your soul.--) What's our mission? stand up for something better ? Or live and die for nothing? What do we say to a child that says "I dont like the way things are, Why will you not fix it" If and when my child creates a grandbaby for me I want to be able to say " I did everything I could think of within my power and I'm still trying now" I agree positive thought creates positive action. But without real visible action actually happening-nothing is going to change. The pilgrims wanted better so they sailed away and started a beautiful community in Plymouth, on Cape Cod in Mass. that worked wonderfully! Then the British Monarchy showed up and infiltraited Virginia 700 miles away and created The Corporation of the USA and turned America to **** and destroyed what the pilgrims "The Massachussettes Bay Colony "had created. The Pilgrims did'nt bring slaves to America, The British Slum Lords did, and they killed the indians too. Pilgrims and indians lived peacefully together. That's why Thanksgiving exists-pilgrims & indians giving thanks to each other. I grew up in NE so I do know what really happened .

[Mark]

wow. couple of oppositional viewpoints of reality here. i see a fellow ex-boy scout up there (sup Modwiz). i spent 5 years in the American army, ending with Desert Storm in '91. Didn't go to the Gulf, but was ready to do so if required. Also grew up as a military brat, on bases around the world. So I know combat, I know its mentality, I know how to be combative, how to fight physically and intellectually, I know conflict in all of its manifestations. I know the Art of War (http://classics.mit.edu/Tzu/artwar.html), understand how the Prince (http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1232) manipulates the control system. I dream of hell dimensions and fighting legions of demons with other warriors, of quests, and beautiful souls, beings of light watching above while evil lurks below. I walk in both the under and over-worlds and see both sides.

i have read the baghavad gita and heard krishna's remonstrations to arjuna to go out and fight, kill his relatives, find his honor by fulfilling his purpose. The warrior's life is as locked into karma as is any others, if you live by the sword, you die by it. there is a purity to walking a path between good and evil, since life is neverending is the taking of life in thsi world, inherently, a bad thing? What is bad, in the end? Do we, as krishna implied, have our destinies, some to die on the battlefield and others to be the killers and to receive a reward for that? are the Jihadi's of the CIA right, do they get their reward of 50 virgins when they die? Are the holy warriors of the former Blackwater, Xe Services, doing their holy duty to their god and country by engaging in mercenary tactics for Western interests?

these questions accompany all considerations of the near future and the potential wars lurking on the horizon. china being the biggest and baddest kid on the block next to the block of Western countries is obviously the main candidate. but is that really where we stand today? is china really the enemy? all of the billion + of them? is this really the way to end the madness, the only solution?

there is spirituality inherent in the purity of conflict if it lies beyond the realm of duality, apparently. some even say that duality exists all the way back to source, and we know that there are wars in the heavens. wars between beings of a different nature, some lower, others higher. why should it be different here? perhaps this thread is fully material, but in support of darla and those who seek the higher path, i think it is necessary to remember that all of this stuff works together, is interrelated. any conflict that occurs has a spiritual dimension. any war that happens in any near future will not only be fought in the material world, with finger nails, feet, guns and bombs. if you've never had to seriously consider what it means to be in a conflict, to have to fight for your life, you might want to do so before spoiling for one. If you've never held a weapon in your hand or were moments away from being ordered to fire it at another human, you might want to think about whether you can or not and what your own personal motivations might be for doing so. or not.

just sayin'. ;)

[Unified Serenity]

Hey Modwiz,

I am well aware of all the false flag situations that have basically caused all the wars of the past century and this century. We are manipulated by the best propaganda experts who ever existed. Their Hegalean dialectic works very well. It does not negate that those of other countries are being played just as much as we in America are being played. I simply won't just lie down and say, ok come on in and do your thing.

First and foremost this is a spiritual battle that has raged for eons. I have done my own fair share of spiritual warfare for years, and I guess it's just who I am. I react most strongly to the spiritual energy surrounding us and manifesting in 3d. The ptb want a nasty nasty war to break out. They want us desperate for peace otherwise called their solution. Only it's not peace. It is giving up the last vestiges of our liberty and freedom for false peace and safety.

[modwiz]

wow. couple of oppositional viewpoints of reality here. i see a fellow ex-boy scout up there (sup Modwiz). i spent 5 years in the American army, ending with Desert Storm in '91. Didn't go to the Gulf, but was ready to do so if required. Also grew up as a military brat, on bases around the world. So I know combat, I know its mentality, I know how to be combative, how to fight physically and intellectually, I know conflict in all of its manifestations. I know the Art of War (http://classics.mit.edu/Tzu/artwar.html), understand how the Prince (http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1232) manipulates the control system. I dream of hell dimensions and fighting legions of demons with other warriors, of quests, and beautiful souls, beings of light watching above while evil lurks below. I walk in both the under and over-worlds and see both sides.

i have read the baghavad gita and heard krishna's remonstrations to arjuna to go out and fight, kill his relatives, find his honor by fulfilling his purpose. The warrior's life is as locked into karma as is any others, if you live by the sword, you die by it. there is a purity to walking a path between good and evil, since life is neverending is the taking of life in thsi world, inherently, a bad thing? What is bad, in the end? Do we, as krishna implied, have our destinies, some to die on the battlefield and others to be the killers and to receive a reward for that? are the Jihadi's of the CIA right, do they get their reward of 50 virgins when they die? Are the holy warriors of the former Blackwater, Xe Services, doing their holy duty to their god and country by engaging in mercenary tactics for Western interests?

these questions accompany all considerations of the near future and the potential wars lurking on the horizon. china being the biggest and baddest kid on the block next to the block of Western countries is obviously the main candidate. but is that really where we stand today? is china really the enemy? all of the billion + of them? is this really the way to end the madness, the only solution?

there is spirituality inherent in the purity of conflict if it lies beyond the realm of duality, apparently. some even say that duality exists all the way back to source, and we know that there are wars in the heavens. wars between beings of a different nature, some lower, others higher. why should it be different here? perhaps this thread is fully material, but in support of darla and those who seek the higher path, i think it is necessary to remember that all of this stuff works together, is interrelated. any conflict that occurs has a spiritual dimension. any war that happens in any near future will not only be fought in the material world, with finger nails, feet, guns and bombs. if you've never had to seriously consider what it means to be in a conflict, to have to fight for your life, you might want to do so before spoiling for one. If you've never held a weapon in your hand or were moments away from being ordered to fire it at another human, you might want to think about whether you can or not and what your own personal motivations might be for doing so. or not.

just sayin'. ;)

Beautifully and eloquently stated, Rahkyt. I admit some laziness to typing. This keeps my replies well South of the justice this subject deserves. You have done some justice to it.

I might opine that the Chinese are mercantile by nature and will not fight a war for no reason and desire no land they do not consider Greater China.(History bears this out.) Unfortunately Tibet is a part of that worldview. A look at a map makes it understandable. The brutal suppression of religion and culture is heavy handed, immature and completely unnecessary . A vestige of the of anti-intellectualism of Maoism. A garrison on the perimeter is all that is really needed. The native Tibetans are busy fighting demons and possession and are no threat to the Red Army.

[crested-duck]

Rahkyt- I agree with you very much and ask myself a lot of the same questions. I was born in a off-base hospital , was a brat, and served thinking I was doing a noble thing. Young and nieve is what we were. Everyone will have a different role to act-out and fulfill in this rotten game we are being forced to participate in. Some will stand,some will just watch the show and accept the outcome. Some truely fear dying and the unknown. I've had to work hard, and fight to survive at times. I've grown tired from going against proclaimed authority and what was seen as evil and unjust, my whole life.If sacrificeing this life is what's required to end this maddness so be it. We here did'nt start this assault on humanity, but we will be the ones required to pay the price to end it. The sheeple will go with the flow. We are the educated opposition, and we are targets under fire. I'm not looking to start a riot anywhere, but if and when they show up on my property things will be very ugly and will not end well. I will not be dragged away to a FEMA prison.

[Sidney]

War with China, Damn whos gonna do all our dirty labor work now? The Corporate Pig's in america who send out all our work from america dont want any war with China.

OMG- ROTFLMAO Thanks Whitefeather, I needed the chuckle.




BTW sounds like fear porn to me.

[Jenci]

there is spirituality inherent in the purity of conflict if it lies beyond the realm of duality, apparently. some even say that duality exists all the way back to source,

(Not particularly directed at you Rahkyt in this post but you mentioned the point about duality.)

Yes this is true. Duality comes from the Source. The Source being the non-dual unmanifested which manifests in the duality.

Always two opposing values. Good/bad. War/peace. Light/dark. Happy/Sad. Fear/Comfort.

This is the rule of duality. You cannot have one without the other because if you didn't have good, you wouldn't know bad and if you didn't have war, how would you know peace. The opposing values of duality are an endless cycle.

This is the lesson humanity has not learned yet - that there can be no end to war / peace cycle.

Words are inadequate here but I will try to illustrate.

It's like a coin with two sides - heads and tails (war and peace)
Heads believes it's the coin and tries to rid the tails.
Tails believes it's the coin and tries to rid the heads.
Whichever way the coin flip decides how the coin manifests at any given time.
Keep flipping the coin and you will have equal amounts of heads and tails and it will be endless.
But what happens if the coin learns this game cannot be won and steps back from heads or tails and realises that it is actually a coin?
Then heads and tails no longer have any relevance.
A coin is the whole made up of both heads and tails but neither is the coin.

Modwiz asked the question (I think it was this thread) how does the 1% control the rest of us? Very important question.

Because we continue to play the game, not learning that it cannot be won. The 1% at the top of the pyramid are pushing for war and the rest of us are pushing for peace - an endless cycle of flipping between the two. History illustrates this.

What happens when we realise that the game itself is just an illusion because it can never be won ?

This is where we become non-compliant in the game. We step out of the pyramid and say no to war but also no to peace. We are not buying any of it. Period.

What percentage of people will it take to step out of the pyramid for it to come crashing down?

The more people who wake up to the Source/Consciousness and discard the duality of opposing values, the closer we get to tipping point for the structure of the pyramid.

At a personal level we can ask ourselves this question. If I don't want war, what will happen if I don't want peace either?
What happens if I discard both the idea of war and peace?
What am I left with?

(hint - this question is not to be answered, but to be experienced. It will lead you back to Source)

Jeanette

[Words of Joy]

More info:

http://www.eutimes.net/2011/12/china-joins-russia-orders-military-to-prepare-for-world-war-iii/

[K626]

China is set to be the manufacturing base for the next phase so even though there might be some tiny conflict over Taiwan...I don't see any kind of full blown war with the US.

Peace

K2

[Words of Joy]

China is set to be the manufacturing base for the next phase so even though there might be some tiny conflict over Taiwan...I don't see any kind of full blown war with the US.

Peace

K2

I too doubt that there will be a full scale war. Nonetheless, I find it interesting to see how the pawns are being moved, hence the message. Peace indeed. :)

[DeDukshyn]

¤=[Post Update]=¤

[/COLOR]

can we just get it over with already?

Have you fallen on your f*cking head . The 200 million man Army would wipe us out in 2 months , War with China and Russia will not bode well for North Americans at all !

Be careful there Eric, China might have a big army in numbers but the technology, the experience and the weapons are all in favour of the USA.

However WW3 is close around the corner; if what is happening in Iran continues like this we might see another alliance war with the occidental and the eastern World. It will be hard to predict a “winner”; I have a feeling that by the time the war is over no one will know who won….

Have a look for yourself, here’s a list of the world’s biggest military powers up to date.
http://www.globalfirepower.com/

Cheers,

Steve


How can Canada be #25? They must be really weighing in technological advantages as well -- our military is rather puny (but effective). I thought it would be way lower.

Edit: Looking at that site again - our oil reserves obviously account for a lot. Also it said Canada has 1.3 QUADRILLION DOLLARS in purchasing power ... WTH? Per capita that is an extreme figure ... hard to believe ..

[WhiteFeather]

I will say this again very firmly. China has The USA beat in every way possible, military, manpower, technology, funding. The USA Is Clueless Compared To China, I Repeat Clueless.

This is just one example.
http://voices.yahoo.com/chinese-submarine-beats-navys-best-sonar-operators-123168.html
Since the end of the Cold War, the United States Navy has considered itself to be the world's premier anti-submarine warfare force. But a recent, generally overlooked by the "mainstream" media, news item has cast doubt on the Navy's self-bestowed smugness.
In a story posted on the GlobalSecurity.org web site, a submerged Chinese Song-class submarine was able to follow the USS Kitty Hawk (CV-63) on 26 October 2006 without being detected by the carrier's crew. The presence of the Chinese sub was revealed only after it had surfaced approximately 5 miles from Kitty Hawk and was spotted by one of the carrier's aircraft on a routine patrol flight.

[AuCo]

wow. couple of oppositional viewpoints of reality here. i see a fellow ex-boy scout up there (sup Modwiz). i spent 5 years in the American army, ending with Desert Storm in '91. Didn't go to the Gulf, but was ready to do so if required. Also grew up as a military brat, on bases around the world. So I know combat, I know its mentality, I know how to be combative, how to fight physically and intellectually, I know conflict in all of its manifestations. I know the Art of War (http://classics.mit.edu/Tzu/artwar.html), understand how the Prince (http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1232) manipulates the control system. I dream of hell dimensions and fighting legions of demons with other warriors, of quests, and beautiful souls, beings of light watching above while evil lurks below. I walk in both the under and over-worlds and see both sides.

i have read the baghavad gita and heard krishna's remonstrations to arjuna to go out and fight, kill his relatives, find his honor by fulfilling his purpose. The warrior's life is as locked into karma as is any others, if you live by the sword, you die by it. there is a purity to walking a path between good and evil, since life is neverending is the taking of life in thsi world, inherently, a bad thing? What is bad, in the end? Do we, as krishna implied, have our destinies, some to die on the battlefield and others to be the killers and to receive a reward for that? are the Jihadi's of the CIA right, do they get their reward of 50 virgins when they die? Are the holy warriors of the former Blackwater, Xe Services, doing their holy duty to their god and country by engaging in mercenary tactics for Western interests?

these questions accompany all considerations of the near future and the potential wars lurking on the horizon. china being the biggest and baddest kid on the block next to the block of Western countries is obviously the main candidate. but is that really where we stand today? is china really the enemy? all of the billion + of them? is this really the way to end the madness, the only solution?

there is spirituality inherent in the purity of conflict if it lies beyond the realm of duality, apparently. some even say that duality exists all the way back to source, and we know that there are wars in the heavens. wars between beings of a different nature, some lower, others higher. why should it be different here? perhaps this thread is fully material, but in support of darla and those who seek the higher path, i think it is necessary to remember that all of this stuff works together, is interrelated. any conflict that occurs has a spiritual dimension. any war that happens in any near future will not only be fought in the material world, with finger nails, feet, guns and bombs. if you've never had to seriously consider what it means to be in a conflict, to have to fight for your life, you might want to do so before spoiling for one. If you've never held a weapon in your hand or were moments away from being ordered to fire it at another human, you might want to think about whether you can or not and what your own personal motivations might be for doing so. or not.

just sayin'. ;)

Beautifully and eloquently stated, Rahkyt. I admit some laziness to typing. This keeps my replies well South of the justice this subject deserves. You have done some justice to it.

I might opine that the Chinese are mercantile by nature and will not fight a war for no reason and desire no land they do not consider Greater China.(History bears this out.) Unfortunately Tibet is a part of that worldview. A look at a map makes it understandable. The brutal suppression of religion and culture is heavy handed, immature and completely unnecessary . A vestige of the of anti-intellectualism of Maoism. A garrison on the perimeter is all that is really needed. The native Tibetans are busy fighting demons and possession and are no threat to the Red Army.

They claim to have discovered the Americas first http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4609074.stm

and they will not be too shy at shooting at any of us. When asked “Will you shoot at women, children and prisoners of war,” more than 80 percent of the respondents answered in the affirmative. http://discoveringislam.org/china_aspirations.htm

In short, I'd keep an eye on China. At all time.

[RMorgan]

They claim to have discovered the Americas first http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4609074.stm

and they will not be too shy at shooting at any of us. When asked “Will you shoot at women, children and prisoners of war,” more than 80 percent of the respondents answered in the affirmative. http://discoveringislam.org/china_aspirations.htm

In short, I'd keep an eye on China. At all time.

Yes. It´s no news for me the the Chinese were the first to colonize the whole American continent.

New historical discoveries claim that the whole human race is originated from China, instead of Africa, which was believed first.

Also, here in Brazil, there are some pretty ancient indigenous tribes who carry Chinese DNA.

Cheers,

Raf.

[modwiz]

wow. couple of oppositional viewpoints of reality here. i see a fellow ex-boy scout up there (sup Modwiz). i spent 5 years in the American army, ending with Desert Storm in '91. Didn't go to the Gulf, but was ready to do so if required. Also grew up as a military brat, on bases around the world. So I know combat, I know its mentality, I know how to be combative, how to fight physically and intellectually, I know conflict in all of its manifestations. I know the Art of War (http://classics.mit.edu/Tzu/artwar.html), understand how the Prince (http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1232) manipulates the control system. I dream of hell dimensions and fighting legions of demons with other warriors, of quests, and beautiful souls, beings of light watching above while evil lurks below. I walk in both the under and over-worlds and see both sides.

i have read the baghavad gita and heard krishna's remonstrations to arjuna to go out and fight, kill his relatives, find his honor by fulfilling his purpose. The warrior's life is as locked into karma as is any others, if you live by the sword, you die by it. there is a purity to walking a path between good and evil, since life is neverending is the taking of life in thsi world, inherently, a bad thing? What is bad, in the end? Do we, as krishna implied, have our destinies, some to die on the battlefield and others to be the killers and to receive a reward for that? are the Jihadi's of the CIA right, do they get their reward of 50 virgins when they die? Are the holy warriors of the former Blackwater, Xe Services, doing their holy duty to their god and country by engaging in mercenary tactics for Western interests?

these questions accompany all considerations of the near future and the potential wars lurking on the horizon. china being the biggest and baddest kid on the block next to the block of Western countries is obviously the main candidate. but is that really where we stand today? is china really the enemy? all of the billion + of them? is this really the way to end the madness, the only solution?

there is spirituality inherent in the purity of conflict if it lies beyond the realm of duality, apparently. some even say that duality exists all the way back to source, and we know that there are wars in the heavens. wars between beings of a different nature, some lower, others higher. why should it be different here? perhaps this thread is fully material, but in support of darla and those who seek the higher path, i think it is necessary to remember that all of this stuff works together, is interrelated. any conflict that occurs has a spiritual dimension. any war that happens in any near future will not only be fought in the material world, with finger nails, feet, guns and bombs. if you've never had to seriously consider what it means to be in a conflict, to have to fight for your life, you might want to do so before spoiling for one. If you've never held a weapon in your hand or were moments away from being ordered to fire it at another human, you might want to think about whether you can or not and what your own personal motivations might be for doing so. or not.

just sayin'. ;)

Beautifully and eloquently stated, Rahkyt. I admit some laziness to typing. This keeps my replies well South of the justice this subject deserves. You have done some justice to it.

I might opine that the Chinese are mercantile by nature and will not fight a war for no reason and desire no land they do not consider Greater China.(History bears this out.) Unfortunately Tibet is a part of that worldview. A look at a map makes it understandable. The brutal suppression of religion and culture is heavy handed, immature and completely unnecessary . A vestige of the of anti-intellectualism of Maoism. A garrison on the perimeter is all that is really needed. The native Tibetans are busy fighting demons and possession and are no threat to the Red Army.

They claim to have discovered the Americas first http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4609074.stm

and they will not be too shy at shooting at any of us. When asked “Will you shoot at women, children and prisoners of war,” more than 80 percent of the respondents answered in the affirmative. http://discoveringislam.org/china_aspirations.htm

In short, I'd keep an eye on China. At all time.

I would like to suggest you are too influenced by the poison that passes for information 'out there'. Those toxins then find their way into here where, hopefully, they can be neutralized with thought processes instead of emotional reactions. Claims of discovery are stretching ideas to make a point.

China will make no claims to America. It is no more a part of Greater China than Korea or Japan is. Taiwan was always a Chinese island. That is why Chiang-Kai shek took his troops there. The BBC is just another orifice for the ooze to fall from the NWO's decaying body.

[Corncrake]

Interesting article but as it states there is no real proof - even if the map is authenticated.

[RedeZra]

i'm an old oak and so i'm not a nut


i see it in black and white

like the colors on a chessboard

there are only two teams


God or not


i don't think the leadership of communist China consults with God and i don't think that the US Congress counsel with God either

no i think they both take their orders from archons or fallen spirits


is it possible that an international elite is behind the governing power of most nations ? and that this elite has an agenda that is not acceptable to God ?


if a war breaks out between China and the US - which is not out of the question - then it will escalate and include the whole world

and while the international elite shake hands across the borders we the people will still have to fight once again for a lost cause

the empowering of the evil force


i'm not saying that we the people are on team God or good

but we could be if we turn to God