Some Millionaires Made A Video And This Is What They Said

[baddbob]

Here is some rich people coming clean from the The Agenda Project http://agendaproject.org/

http://front.moveon.org/some-millionaires-made-a-video-and-this-is-what-they-said/#.Tt_4cYfzlbl.facebook

[olddragon]

Good on them!

They have a right to wealth because they have the nouns to make it but they should also pay more because they can afford it.

[christian]

When I type in "moveon.org" into google, it suggests that I could also type in "Soros" with it...

[Unified Serenity]

This is a shell game. First of all, who said those millionaires can't get out their check books and write a check to the government for another 20% of their income? Secondly, when did you ever get a job from a poor person? It's not the ultra rich who are being taxed to death, it's the barely rich.

My sister and her husband make pretty good money. She would hire a full time housekeeper / nanny if she wasn't paying so much to the government, but as it is, the government is getting the money and she won't hire the person who would probably love to work in her home.

This class warfare game is dangerous. They are robbing us blind in Washington, the banks, and elite thieves where ever they nest. They took the bail out money over these bad home loans, and they keep the property, and evict the people who were conned into signing the loans. We need a total redo in regards to money world wide. We need to end the IMF, end Fed. Reserve systems in all countries, and restructure how we pay for services we want.

Government drives up the costs of business. We educated our children for much less years ago, and they got a superior education. We had health care we could afford, but when government is paying for all this subsidized care they just drive the costs up, and complain about dead beats without insurance not paying their bills. I will give you an example back in 1994 or so my husband did not have health insurance. He cut his wrist badly and needed stiches. Now, I knew for fact that insurance would pay $80.00 for the service and the hospital would take it. Guess what our freaking bill was for the same service? $400.00! I was pissed. I asked her why it was so high and she said, 'because you don't have insurance" at which point she also volunteered that our costs were higher because people without insurance don't usually pay up. I retorted, "Well give me an $80.00 bill and I will pay you right now!"

Of course she didn't and we paid it off over a couple of months. My point is government is causing the problems. We don't have a tax problem, we have a bloated government problem, a FED RES. problem, and a regulatory problem. Let the people work together, let's get rid of fraud and abuse by those who steal from government via medicare, insurance claims, and other areas. Raising taxes will not help. I highly recommend you watch "The only game in town" where we can see it's a shell game. Most of you don't even have a clue that we own it all already, and there is a way to stop the madness.

bn3hUcmNDdA

[alienHunter]

Here is some rich people coming clean from the The Agenda Project http://agendaproject.org/

http://front.moveon.org/some-millionaires-made-a-video-and-this-is-what-they-said/#.Tt_4cYfzlbl.facebook

I like it...

[alienHunter]

banks = elite thieves = Repubtilians.

This administration tried to reach the public with the message that insurance is not very ensuring. It's a moneymaking scheme for banks = elite thieves = Repubtilians. The not very erudite rank-and-file of the Repubtilian Corps was not very receptive to that message.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


When I type in "moveon.org" into google, it suggests that I could also type in "Soros" with it...

So I guess the implication is that those millionaires have fallen under the 'Soros' spell?

[ngogly]

Primitive propaganda to fool people, to raise taxes on small/family businesses and destroy them. Real agenda is to introduce new taxes and destroy middle class. After that there is no more options as working for big corporations for nothing like in China.

This story is really stupid. They tell that people are poor and they rich because they are not taxed properly. Then why did they keep all this money, why didn't they pay it to employees? It had solved all problems :)

This is communist jews crap who want to profit from the fall of capitalist jews. Looks like Russian propaganda, just like RT.com.

[baddbob]

"I knew for fact that insurance would pay $80.00 for the service and the hospital would take it. Guess what our freaking bill was for the same service? $400.00" I got charged once for $25 for 4 baby asprin when I had one of my heart attacks.During a vascular operation they hit my spleen and they charged $4.000 to remove it even though it was there fault

[alienHunter]

Primitive propaganda to fool people, to raise taxes on small/family businesses and destroy them. Real agenda is to introduce new taxes and destroy middle class. After that there is no more options as working for big corporations for nothing like in China.

This story is really stupid. They tell that people are poor and they rich because they are not taxed properly. Then why did they keep all this money, why didn't they pay it to employees? It had solved all problems :)

This is communist jews crap who want to profit from the fall of capitalist jews. Looks like Russian propaganda, just like RT.com.


It's called a 'joint/organized' and traditional method of making society work. Obama has repeatedly attempted to lighten the load on small business and the middle class. The Repubtilians won't let it happen!

[Unified Serenity]

banks = elite thieves = Repubtilians.

This administration tried to reach the public with the message that insurance is not very ensuring. It's a moneymaking scheme for banks = elite thieves = Repubtilians. The not very erudite rank-and-file of the Repubtilian Corps was not very receptive to that message.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


When I type in "moveon.org" into google, it suggests that I could also type in "Soros" with it...

So I guess the implication is that those millionaires have fallen under the 'Soros' spell?

Please stop the left / right paradigm. Obama got the most support form the banksters and other industry. Why do you think he has timmy geitner working for him? Why is Goldman Sachs always running our treasury? Watch the video and learn something. The government owns it all, and made 14 trillion in 2007 collectively from their investment funds. We don't need to pay taxes at all. Don't believe me, watch the video I posted above.

[alienHunter]

It is a left/right paradigm...it seems you lean to the right. Am I wrong?

[AlternativeInfoJunkie]

Thank you unified serenity. IMHO this is an elitist scam. The super rich are already exempt from paying taxes at all so if you just "raise taxes" without some kind of legislation that makes the tax hikes apply to the super rich as well, it will only make the super rich richer by knocking out their less well off competition. IMHO it will not have the desired effect that most of you seem to want it to have. IMHO the elites have been taking advantage of the "left" leaning politics of most intelligent individuals to forward their own agenda for centuries which has more to do with crony capitalism (communism for the rich / capitalism for the poor). The elites have noticed that most intelligent people are more caring and lean more to the left of the false left/right paradigm so they have decided to use that to their advantage.

[alienHunter]

Here's the truth...as I see it.

The Repubtilians are owners of the American economy. They obviously wield an imbalance of economic power...period. The left is relatively helpless in the face of all that economic power: elite thieves, bankers, corporations (the so-called job creators that won't create jobs until they have one of their own in leadership)...bankers won't loan money until one of their own is in leadership, the elite thieves will continue thieving but will encounter more counter measures until one of their own is in leadership. It is a losing game for those that actually want a balanced just society. Timothy Geithner is one of the remaining efforts of bi-partisanship. Something a naive Barack Obama promised.

[alienHunter]

I suppose a semantic argument could be posed that the Government owns everything...they own public land...BUT, homeowners comprise the bulk of American/personal wealth. Most of that was eroded by the Repubtilians in the last 30 years by allowing the corporatist elite thieves have their way with the middle class.

[AlternativeInfoJunkie]

I suppose a semantic argument could be posed that the Government owns everything...they own public land...BUT, homeowners comprise the bulk of American/personal wealth. Most of that was eroded by the Repubtilians in the last 30 years by allowing the corporatist elite thieves have their way with the middle class.

It kinda sounds like you're saying the democrats are not in bed with the republicans and therefore only the republicans are in bed with bed with the corporations. That would be a a very bizzarre thing to say if that is what you are saying.

[ceetee9]

Wow! Here we go again with the left/right, "Repubtilians"/ Democrats bull crap. It makes no difference what party you belong to or vote for, they are all in it together and the American people are the losers. I would have thought by now most, if not all, Avalonians would have gotten that simple truth.

[G.A]

Wow! Here we go again with the left/right, "Repubtilians"/ Democrats bull crap. It makes no difference what party you belong to or vote for, they are all in it together and the American people are the losers. I would have thought by now most, if not all, Avalonians would have gotten that simple truth.

Hear, hear. But we know the illusion of choice to keep the sheeple bickering has an iron grasp and is highly effective.

As unique and individual people seem to be... how can only two opposing parties and sets of ideology define the majority? Sad.

[alienHunter]

Ok

This gentleman is suggesting a Tax Retirement Fund to replace Taxes...What is the conceptual difference? It seems there is only a semantic difference. jeesuz! I don't know what his agenda is...he certainly seems sincere, but what he is saying is complete b.s. Sorry.

I did notice that he put a plug in for his organization. Beware of this dude!

¤=[Post Update]=¤



I suppose a semantic argument could be posed that the Government owns everything...they own public land...BUT, homeowners comprise the bulk of American/personal wealth. Most of that was eroded by the Repubtilians in the last 30 years by allowing the corporatist elite thieves have their way with the middle class.

It kinda sounds like you're saying the democrats are not in bed with the republicans and therefore only the republicans are in bed with bed with the corporations. That would be a a very bizzarre thing to say if that is what you are saying.

No, that would be unfair to make such a claim...but it has been my observation that many conservatives are not what I would call 'good' humans (to take a note from WhiteFeather).

[AlternativeInfoJunkie]

Ok

This gentleman is suggesting a Tax Retirement Fund to replace Taxes...What is the conceptual difference? It seems there is only a semantic difference. jeesuz! I don't know what his agenda is...he certainly seems sincere, but what he is saying is complete b.s. Sorry.

I did notice that he put a plug in for his organization. Beware of this dude!

¤=[Post Update]=¤



I suppose a semantic argument could be posed that the Government owns everything...they own public land...BUT, homeowners comprise the bulk of American/personal wealth. Most of that was eroded by the Repubtilians in the last 30 years by allowing the corporatist elite thieves have their way with the middle class.

It kinda sounds like you're saying the democrats are not in bed with the republicans and therefore only the republicans are in bed with bed with the corporations. That would be a a very bizzarre thing to say if that is what you are saying.

No, that would be unfair to make such a claim...but it has been my observation that many conservatives are not what I would call 'good' humans (to take a note from WhiteFeather).

Ok. But as far as politicians go, democrats and republicans both serve the same masters. They are two tentacles on the same octopus. They may accomplish different goals for the power elite SOMETIMES. But for the most part the only difference is the rhetoric. It should also be pointed out that most, if not all, neo-conservative republicans are not conservative at ALL. It is not conservative to start expensive wars. It is not conservative to bail out corporations. It is not conservative to take away civil liberties. And the democrats (demo cons) are doing all of the exact same things. Sometimes you'll get an honest politician who somehow slips in on either side of the false left/right paradigm (Ron Paul, Ralph Nader, Dennis kucinich) but for the most part it is an exclusive club and you have to serve the corporate (or secret society) masters if you want to join. Hey I could recommend some books for you if you want.

[alienHunter]

Ok

This gentleman is suggesting a Tax Retirement Fund to replace Taxes...What is the conceptual difference? It seems there is only a semantic difference. jeesuz! I don't know what his agenda is...he certainly seems sincere, but what he is saying is complete b.s. Sorry.

I did notice that he put a plug in for his organization. Beware of this dude!


¤=[Post Update]=¤



I suppose a semantic argument could be posed that the Government owns everything...they own public land...BUT, homeowners comprise the bulk of American/personal wealth. Most of that was eroded by the Repubtilians in the last 30 years by allowing the corporatist elite thieves have their way with the middle class.

It kinda sounds like you're saying the democrats are not in bed with the republicans and therefore only the republicans are in bed with bed with the corporations. That would be a a very bizzarre thing to say if that is what you are saying.

No, that would be unfair to make such a claim...but it has been my observation that many conservatives are not what I would call 'good' humans (to take a note from WhiteFeather).

Ok. But as far as politicians go, democrats and republicans both serve the same masters. They are two tentacles on the same octopus. They may accomplish different goals for the power elite SOMETIMES. But for the most part the only difference is the rhetoric. It should also be pointed out that most, if not all, neo-conservative republicans are not conservative at ALL. It is not conservative to start expensive wars. It is not conservative to bail out corporations. It is not conservative to take away civil liberties. And the democrats (demo cons) are doing all of the exact same things. Sometimes you'll get an honest politician who somehow slips in on either side of the false left/right paradigm (Ron Paul, Ralph Nader, Dennis kucinich) but for the most part it is an exclusive club and you have to serve the corporate (or secret society) masters if you want to join. Hey I could recommend some books for you if you want.


I'm with your 'balanced' approach and I would say that I agree...the details of the 'truth' in my opinion are still to be worked out...ok, I'm open to books...thanks

[christian]

When I type in "moveon.org" into google, it suggests that I could also type in "Soros" with it...

So I guess the implication is that those millionaires have fallen under the 'Soros' spell?

Well, follow the white rabbit :biggrin1:

Soros gave $5M to this group in 2003. Moveon seems to be another "philantropic" NWO front organization, although there may be some genuine people in there wanting to make a positive change...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2003/11/11/1945/-Soros-gives-$5-million-to-MoveOnorg

[Unified Serenity]

What's the difference? Did you really watch the video? There is enough money via the investment accounts held by government owned by we the people taking in trillions of dollars in revenue which easily pays for what is needed. The general budget only accounts for a third of the money in the system. People think when they cry poor (government) that taxes need to go up to pay for everything. We need a new carbon tax, we need more money for this project or that project. It's all bull****. They have the money in spades!

If you think this was all done by one party you are really stuck in a paradigm. Both parties have had access to the books. Tell me, how many of you even knew about the CAFR "Comprehensive Annual Financial Reports"? Most people have no clue there is a general budget and then a total CAFR that shows all the money invested and held. We have been played people. How else do you think they have been robbing us blind, paying off their supporters and black projects? Where are they hiding the money? It's off budget meaning off "General Budget".

We need an audit of all accounting, offshore investment banks, Fed Res and the IMF. This world is in economic turmoil, millions are suffering for NO reason, and All the political leaders are aware of what is happening over the last 70 years. It's the biggest secret, and it's happening on local level too. You can download your states CAFR, State Univ. CAFR etc for free. I have them all for Florida. Think they lost money in the stock market? Bull****, they made money in spades playing derivatives.

I am a conservative constitutionalist. I am a registered independent, and I cannot stand either party. Oh, and one can think Dems are more caring, but I personally would rather have someone teach me how to fish than put me in some soup line getting a fish head once a day for the rest of my life. Generational welfare is nothing more than slavery. The people have not been able to get off the plantation and those who benefit the most via their votes never want them off the plantation, projects, or soup lines.

It makes me sick. We are so much greater than that, and I cannot imagine how much we have lost in potential because some poor girl or boy felt they could never be anything more than a poor welfare recipient. How many lives could they have affected with their gifts if they were only encouraged to develop them rather than become drug dealers, poor working stiffs, drug addicts, prostitutes, uneducated and entitled to their welfare checks. It will take time to turn things around, but dammit, we have to start somewhere.

[ghostrider]

millionaires and billionaires don't create jobs, its those makin 100k to 500k a year. they create jobs take risk and such. the mill and bill folks just have investments, and look for things they can use a tax deductions. the mega rich just want to keep their money in trust funds while they dress and act poor. I worked for the rockefeller family at their private ranch. met some of the wealthiest people in the world. you wouldn't know it by looking at them. two of the eight shareholders were the richest, one has a diamond mine in africa, the other the largest cattle farmer in the united states, they are brother and sister. the mega rich don't want the headache of running a business, too much bird watching to do, horsrback riding, and wine parties to discuss art. just make the tax rate 10 percent for everybody with no exemptions.. one rate , fair for all... what's wrong with one rate for all, no one gets the upper hand . politicans should pay 10 percent on their income just as well....Bill Gates 10 percent, walmart same, no exemptions, billionaires 10 percent , the poor 10 percent, middleclass, 10 percent, no one gets a better deal than the next person, we all pay 10 percent. as it is now tax on one million is 380,000 so your a millionaire till you pay the tax on the mill, now you barely have 600,000 next the state gets you . 10 percent would leave you 900,000 , now you can start a business and it won't wipe you out.

[Unified Serenity]

I'm all for the flat tax, but you know as well as I do there will be "special" exemptions for this fund or that fund and how to hide income. The video I showed clearly spells out how we can do away with taxes with what is already set up in all the gov't funds using OUR money for those investments.

[alienHunter]

propaganda...it ain't real...

Teach a person to fish and treat them as not worthy of dignity and they will say, "I don't like fish, but if I can get some caviar from the plantation owner I will be one happy little boy or girl"

[AlternativeInfoJunkie]

EXACTLY SERENITY! The exemptions are the real key to understanding why just "raising taxes" on the "rich" won't work. Not to mention the fact that government can't be trusted to manage that money with the people's best interests in mind anyway. Give em more money and they'll either start more wars or put more money into their secret budget projects or bail out foreign banks or mega corporations. I put "raising taxes" in quotes because the taxes never apply to the people you want them to apply to the most. So it's not really "raising taxes" unless you're talking about raising them on just the middle class. The exemptions are KEY!

[Unified Serenity]

propaganda...it ain't real...

Teach a person to fish and treat them as not worthy of dignity and they will say, "I don't like fish, but if I can get some caviar from the plantation owner I will be one happy little boy or girl"

My analogy is a very old one, and basically what you are saying is I don't want to work so just give me X and I will be happy. One thing I like about outward bound despite some bad situations that have happened there is that they do teach "reality therapy". Here is an example. They take a bunch of arrogant, snot nozed juvenile deliquents out into the wilderness for a two week stay. Each lovely little misunderstood soul has all they need for the trip. They have their own tent, clothes, and survival stuff. They hike 10 miles out to their camping site and everyone is tired. It's cloudy and might rain, and the leader says, "Ok everyone set up your tents so you can rest and in case it rains you won't get wet". One of the little darlings says, "**** that, I'm tired and will just sit here" while watching everyone else put up their little tent. Low and behold it starts to rain!

The little jackass who did not want to work and make a warm place for himself suddenly is getting drenched and runs to jump in someone's tent, but is not allowed. He screams and hollers, kicks over stuff, throws a tantrum and says all kinds of things saying how selfish everyone is, while he is getting drenched. It's called reality, and while it might suck, it doesn't change the fact that at some point people if they are smart begin to realize there is a difference between being unwilling to do you part and being unable to do your part and thus the community helps those unable. The really funny thing is that I have found that those truly unable or challenged mentally or physically often want to carry more of the load than they really should. They want to do their part, and they do more than those who have been trained by being coddled and given in to because of their threats and tantrums, and bs pop psychology.

Learn to fish, work, contribute and you will find your life not only has more meaning, but our world works better and everyone has something to share.

[alienHunter]

Serious study done on those that fall into either category reveal that those 'unable' comprise 80-90 percent of those that 'don't'. Economically, the experiments have been done in several countries and determined that society is looking at an impact under 5% of current debt. It just doesn't wash with me to indict any subgroup based on 'attitudes' rather than hard economic reality.

[Unified Serenity]

Serious study done on those that fall into either category reveal that those 'unable' comprise 80-90 percent of those that 'don't'. Economically, the experiments have been done in several countries and determined that society is looking at an impact under 5% of current debt. It just doesn't wash with me to indict any subgroup based on 'attitudes' rather than hard economic reality.

You want to talk about hard economic reality? You wanna know why so many are hurting today who have lived in a welfare mentality their whole lives? They've bought into a lie that

A. It's owed to them
B. They cannot buck their peer group
C. It's all the know
D. They honestly don't think they can do anything

I'm sure there are other aspects. There is little incentive to work if you can have the same thing sitting on your butt doing nothing. It's one reason socialism / communism has failed so many times. When you work your butt off and get no more than those who don't do anything why do it? If you feel trapped and see any who try to change get sent to prison or killed, fear keeps you in place. Some are always more equal than others. I have also come to a conclusion that worldwide socialism and welfare has been tried before and it yielded a soul group that did nothing. It's part of what I believe happened in the age before this age. God, creator, Goddess whatever name you want to give the Divine knew we were capable of growing so much more, but with everything provided we had no incentive. So, a new plan was hatched and here we are in this 3d world learning lessons and proving what our soul's truly want.

Nuff thinking.... enjoy our day all.

[modwiz]

It is my understanding that the checks we write to the government to pay our taxes are all cashed by the Fed. Income taxes started to feed the Fed. Get rid of the Fed and the usurious money system and a lot of 'money' is no longer needed. There is no debt to service. The money that was generated by tariffs and other fees of doing business was how our government did things before the creation of the Fed. Income tax and the Fed are a hand in glove arrangement. Once again we can argue welfare and it merits and debits but the real problem is the interest charging scumbags who run our banking/money systems. Getting rid of them may look a lot like getting rid of fleas or cockroaches. There is just no talking reasonably to these critters. They are genetically insane and pass it on to their progeny. Confusing this group with humanity is a mistake we continue to make and they can't stop laughing about it. While they take all of our money, mainly in taxes, bank fees and mortgage points. I'm sure I have left out a few more of their buggery techniques.

Welfare losers (abusers?) are a distraction from the real, structural problem.

[Kindred]

Here's the truth...as I see it.

The Repubtilians are owners of the American economy. They obviously wield an imbalance of economic power...period. The left is relatively helpless in the face of all that economic power: elite thieves, bankers, corporations (the so-called job creators that won't create jobs until they have one of their own in leadership)...bankers won't loan money until one of their own is in leadership, the elite thieves will continue thieving but will encounter more counter measures until one of their own is in leadership. It is a losing game for those that actually want a balanced just society. Timothy Geithner is one of the remaining efforts of bi-partisanship. Something a naive Barack Obama promised.

alienHunter... I too feel you need to realize the complicity of Both Parties to the current problems. To recognize this, I direct you to the following YouTube piece by G.Edward Griffin - Collectivist Conspiracy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAdu0N1-tvU

He has many other good, in-depth video pieces that document the current state of affairs, particularly as they relate to the banking and political power centers, but also on other pertinent subjects.

Recognize that the color of their tie, or the banner under which they stand, is Not indicative of their desire to help the citizens, nor our republic.

It is only in recognizing that the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, and adherence to the ideals written within, holds the Only hope for our World. These documents are the closest thing we have to the concept of Universal Law that Stipulates the Dominance of Free Will in All Matters.

In this sense, and relating strictly to the political arena, Ron Paul is the Only candidate that adheres to these Ideals. Is he perfect? No - no human can achieve this, but he's Way Ahead of Everyone Else in Thought and Deed.

In Unity and Peace

[alienHunter]

Kindred,

let me say, it has quickly become obvious to me that I have to dig deeper for the truth if i'm to be taken seriously. To be taken seriously in the sense to be known as one who searches for the truth and doesn't follow blindly. I do trust my instincts, though...I'm not infallible but my instincts have always been good...I am now clicking on your link...

I should add that when I joined here I didn't expect to become embroiled in this kind of tit-for-tat you're wrong I'm right discussion that is so prevalent everywhere else. I came here to try to get closer to a 'positive' truth. The human species is awash in negativity and i really always intend to reduce it where I can...that is my motivation.

[risveglio]

It is my understanding that the checks we write to the government to pay our taxes are all cashed by the Fed. Income taxes started to feed the Fed. Get rid of the Fed and the usurious money system and a lot of 'money' is no longer needed. There is no debt to service. The money that was generated by tariffs and other fees of doing business was how our government did things before the creation of the Fed. Income tax and the Fed are a hand in glove arrangement. Once again we can argue welfare and it merits and debits but the real problem is the interest charging scumbags who run our banking/money systems. Getting rid of them may look a lot like getting rid of fleas or cockroaches. There is just no talking reasonably to these critters. They are genetically insane and pass it on to their progeny. Confusing this group with humanity is a mistake we continue to make and they can't stop laughing about it. While they take all of our money, mainly in taxes, bank fees and mortgage points. I'm sure I have left out a few more of their buggery techniques.

Welfare losers are a distraction from the real, structural problem.

Perfect modwiz. I wish I could write with such elegance.


millionaires and billionaires don't create jobs, its those makin 100k to 500k a year. they create jobs take risk and such. the mill and bill folks just have investments, and look for things they can use a tax deductions. the mega rich just want to keep their money in trust funds while they dress and act poor. I worked for the rockefeller family at their private ranch. met some of the wealthiest people in the world. you wouldn't know it by looking at them. two of the eight shareholders were the richest, one has a diamond mine in africa, the other the largest cattle farmer in the united states, they are brother and sister. the mega rich don't want the headache of running a business, too much bird watching to do, horsrback riding, and wine parties to discuss art. just make the tax rate 10 percent for everybody with no exemptions.. one rate , fair for all... what's wrong with one rate for all, no one gets the upper hand . politicans should pay 10 percent on their income just as well....Bill Gates 10 percent, walmart same, no exemptions, billionaires 10 percent , the poor 10 percent, middleclass, 10 percent, no one gets a better deal than the next person, we all pay 10 percent. as it is now tax on one million is 380,000 so your a millionaire till you pay the tax on the mill, now you barely have 600,000 next the state gets you . 10 percent would leave you 900,000 , now you can start a business and it won't wipe you out.

The business owners that were making 100K to 500K when they were barely successful that now run a successful business are now millionaires and billionaires that do create jobs. I think for a large amount of these, your proposed tax plan would cut their taxes so they would not need to have to look for as many loopholes as before to get down to 0%.

We really need to watch out for this class warfare.

[baddbob]

Here's the truth...as I see it.

The Repubtilians are owners of the American economy. They obviously wield an imbalance of economic power...period. The left is relatively helpless in the face of all that economic power: elite thieves, bankers, corporations (the so-called job creators that won't create jobs until they have one of their own in leadership)...bankers won't loan money until one of their own is in leadership, the elite thieves will continue thieving but will encounter more counter measures until one of their own is in leadership. It is a losing game for those that actually want a balanced just society. Timothy Geithner is one of the remaining efforts of bi-partisanship. Something a naive Barack Obama promised.

alienHunter... I too feel you need to realize the complicity of Both Parties to the current problems. To recognize this, I direct you to the following YouTube piece by G.Edward Griffin - Collectivist Conspiracy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAdu0N1-tvU

He has many other good, in-depth video pieces that document the current state of affairs, particularly as they relate to the banking and political power centers, but also on other pertinent subjects.

Recognize that the color of their tie, or the banner under which they stand, is Not indicative of their desire to help the citizens, nor our republic.

It is only in recognizing that the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, and adherence to the ideals written within, holds the Only hope for our World. These documents are the closest thing we have to the concept of Universal Law that Stipulates the Dominance of Free Will in All Matters.

In this sense, and relating strictly to the political arena, Ron Paul is the Only candidate that adheres to these Ideals. Is he perfect? No - no human can achieve this, but he's Way Ahead of Everyone Else in Thought and Deed.

In Unity and Peace

Very nice video Edward Griffin really hit the nail on this I also watched that "what in the world are they spraying up there" documentary.Very well put together

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf0khstYDLA

[panopticon]

G'day All,

In regards to the 'Agenda Project'...

On their strategy page they state (http://agendaproject.org/stratmove.html):

Think of Nike. Nike buys raw materials like canvas and rubber, designs and manufactures shoes, develops “swoosh” and “Just Do It,” and then hires Michael Jordan as its spokesman.
Then skip a sentence and it says:


A philosophy about fairness and the dignity of work combined with an economic theory about labor markets may be turned into a specific policy to raise the minimum wage. Marketing experts translate the policy into a “Living Wage” campaign which is “sold” to voters either through the candidates (wholesale) or through ballot initiatives (retail). Voters then “buy” the product (elect the candidate or pass the ballot initiative).

Really, come on.
This is a a joke isn't it?

This group of people base their strategy on Nike and its 'fairness and the dignity of work'?

Nike, who uses child slave labour...
Nike, who has "unsafe" working conditions (I'd rather say "deadly")...
Nike, who pays a pitence to their child slave work force...

9a_D-azUogg
They are still doing this even though it has been exposed.

Here's John Pilger's documentary, 'The New Rulers Of The World', on "corporate globalisation" which makes mention of Nike's use of child labour.


http://vimeo.com/16366422
http://vimeo.com/16366422
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

For more information on Nike child labor exploitation:
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/1020-01.htm
http://www1.american.edu/ted/nike.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/panorama/970385.stm

In general:
http://www.ilo.org/global/topics/child-labour/lang--it/index.htm
http://johnpilger.com/videos/the-new-rulers-of-the-world
http://ihscslnews.org/view_article.php?id=57
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~eedmonds/clxc.pdf
http://ftp.iza.org/dp2736.pdf

[ghostrider]

the destruction of the middle class is the focus, the rest is smoke and mirrors.

[sygh]

banks = elite thieves = Repubtilians.

This administration tried to reach the public with the message that insurance is not very ensuring. It's a moneymaking scheme for banks = elite thieves = Repubtilians. The not very erudite rank-and-file of the Repubtilian Corps was not very receptive to that message.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


When I type in "moveon.org" into google, it suggests that I could also type in "Soros" with it...

So I guess the implication is that those millionaires have fallen under the 'Soros' spell?

On July 26th, 2011, George Soros joined the Republican party. Prior to that, George was a Democrat. The billionaire was a Democratic financier. He was a huge fundraiser for Democratic candidates running for President, United States Senate, and the United States House of Representatives.

"David Mamet, who recently wrote about his conversion from a liberal to a conservative in his book “The Secret Knowledge” was the catalyst. "'David met with Soros on the weekend and convinced George that his liberal ideas were ‘insane,’” said Soros insider Vladka Junga."

http://www.educationnews.org/blogs/156726.html

"Junga also said that Soros no longer believes in Climate Change and is divesting himself from all funding of liberal causes including Media Matters.

“George wants to dedicate his Open Society now to promoting the Tea Party agenda.”

Soros is expected at a major Tea Party rally in St. Louis this weekend. He will be the guest of conservative superstar, Dana Loesch.

The billionaire best known for breaking the Bank of England, is returning money to outside investors in his $25.5 billion firm is ending a career as hedge-fund manager that spanned more than four decades and joining the GOP – full-time.
“He wants to dedicate himself to getting the Republicans back into the White House and to make sure that the Supreme Court retains its conservative advantage” said Soros associate, Marco Ludmilla."

[Kindred]

the destruction of the middle class is the focus, the rest is smoke and mirrors.

That's only part of the story... the complete version is that they wish to turn the middle class into the same category as the third-world wage slave a.l.a. the Nike model. What creates such disparity and depravity?

Money, and the greed that it drives in some individuals.

We, as a species, need to drive that concept into the dust bins of history for a true transition to a 'galaxy class' Civilization.

In Unity and Peace

[sygh]

Here's another blip about George Soros and the "Open Society Foundation".

http://www.soros.org/about

In all honesty, I don't know much about George Soros -which is openly admitting a shallowness on my part... but I plan to find out. What I do know is that he is a political/financial force to be reconned with -from any point on the 360. Angel or Demon? I couldn't tell ya.

As to the IMF, the Federal Reserve, and the State Banking System, the Stock Exchange, the investment/banker houses, and the Insurance companies... along with our government here, in the U.S. -I see corruption. Big time corruption. Lots of middle men. Lots of government to support. National, internationals, cosmopolitan national internationalists. And what's that doing? NADA. Circle jerks.

Serenity, I agree with you. We've all spoken about this before. And we really need to speak about it again. But I'm going to beg off on getting into it right now; I want to do some more studying on the subject. And what a deep subject it is; we are still discovering just how corrupt our system has become (insider trading, S-1867, etc...). And the propaganda, whew!!!

http://library.thinkquest.org/C0111500/proptech.htm

This is not to say that we shouldn't seize the moment we have.

[percival tyro]

They say they received tax cut's that they didn't want and didn't need. Ever heard of philanthropy?.

[sygh]

It is a left/right paradigm...it seems you lean to the right. Am I wrong?

alienHunter, no it isn't a left - right paradigm; the U.S. democratic republic is a singular entity with many arms but it is the same system. Propaganda conotes him against her, he against this, us against that, those for this, she's for them... etc...

What is a Republican? What is a Democrat? Hummm... both of these groups pretty much evade definition, even if one can look the definition up and quote it verbatum. To define oneself as a Dem or Repub is very subjective and a little too "all incompassing" for me.

What you, or I, personally believe to be the best way to go forward isn't necessarily shared by everyone; however, it's entirely possible to toss you, or/and me into a bin with a part number on it, based on other attributes we share. We are all involved in a system. And that system doesn't stop at the U.S. boarder. Best to think of an onion.

[sygh]

G'day All,

In regards to the 'Agenda Project'...

On their strategy page they state (http://agendaproject.org/stratmove.html):

Think of Nike. Nike buys raw materials like canvas and rubber, designs and manufactures shoes, develops “swoosh” and “Just Do It,” and then hires Michael Jordan as its spokesman.
Then skip a sentence and it says:


A philosophy about fairness and the dignity of work combined with an economic theory about labor markets may be turned into a specific policy to raise the minimum wage. Marketing experts translate the policy into a “Living Wage” campaign which is “sold” to voters either through the candidates (wholesale) or through ballot initiatives (retail). Voters then “buy” the product (elect the candidate or pass the ballot initiative).

Really, come on.
This is a a joke isn't it?

This group of people base their strategy on Nike and its 'fairness and the dignity of work'?

Nike, who uses child slave labour...
Nike, who has "unsafe" working conditions (I'd rather say "deadly")...
Nike, who pays a pitence to their child slave work force...

9a_D-azUogg
They are still doing this even though it has been exposed.

Here's John Pilger's documentary, 'The New Rulers Of The World', on "corporate globalisation" which makes mention of Nike's use of child labour.


http://vimeo.com/16366422
http://vimeo.com/16366422
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

For more information on Nike child labor exploitation:
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/1020-01.htm
http://www1.american.edu/ted/nike.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/panorama/970385.stm

In general:
http://www.ilo.org/global/topics/child-labour/lang--it/index.htm
http://johnpilger.com/videos/the-new-rulers-of-the-world
http://ihscslnews.org/view_article.php?id=57
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~eedmonds/clxc.pdf
http://ftp.iza.org/dp2736.pdf

Some would argue that the above mentioned are "faultless crimes". Crimes of the system where everyone is guilty, and no one is responsible.

[Ba-ba-Ra]

Great Thread! ~ hardly no where to begin.

Lots of talk about individual welfare, which is only a drop in the bucket compared CORPORATE WELFARE! Not that I'm promoting individual welfare, at least not the way it's set up, which others have already pointed out, is to keep people down and at poverty level.

Some years back here in California they did a pilot project in Riverside County, I believe. Where welfare recipients were paid, but only if they went to school in designated programs, which within 2 years would qualify them to get a responsible job - or if they took free job training classes to become electricians, plumbers, mechanics, etc. It proved to be very successful. Guess what? The Feds stepped in and said it was unlawful to "force" them to work or go to school. Then the Federal Gov't threatened to cut off all funding to the county unless they disbanned the program.

So, it's clear that our Fed Gov't's goal is not to get folks off welfare and join the work force.

As for Republican vs Democrats for those of you who are not convinced that they are the same take a look at where their campaign monies came from. In the election Obama vs McCain, Goldman Sachs was the biggest contributor to both sides. (This after Obama made a big promise that he wouldn't take any corporate money) For those of you who still think Obama is naive, ask yourself, how is it he broke 2 campaign promises before he even got into office. If someone breaks promises before they get into office, what do you think they're going to do after they get into office?

It's time to let go of our emotional attachment to one party or the other or a specific candidate and look at what's going on behind the curtain.

[alienHunter]

It was not successful...what was discovered was that it enabled people to actually lower their quality of life, further most of the people forced into that situation were not fully functioning human beings (marginal, at best). A by-product of society are individuals that CANNOT be productive at a level beyond subsistence. This is not living a full existence, it is bondage at its most fundamental level. If the concern truly is the freeloader then treat the freeloader with God given dignity and they and their progeny will feel a 'collectivist' imperative to be productive if they are able.

[Arrowwind]

Seriously, we were a family that earned 110,000 a year in the last ten years of our work experience. Leading up to that we stretched the gamut in income starting a 40,000 a year when we started while raising children back in the mid eighties.

We have raised two sons, saved for retirement, paid all our debts, have no mortage, have traveled in foreign countries, collected some art work and now do survival prep and pursue other endeavors of interest.

After living in this stretch of income brackets for 25 years and enjoying the fruits of our labor and intelligence, it is quite clear to me tha people who make over 250,000 a year can clearly pay more in taxes.. surely they can afford 3 to 5 thousand more and live a very good lifestyle

[rgray222]

I think many people miss the much larger point here. Why would we want to send more money to Washington DC when they are using it for "all the wrong reasons". When they are wasting billions upon billions of dollars. It really is not a matter of "whose" money it is, it is a matter of how the money they already get is being spent.

By sending more money to Washington DC it just prolongs the problem, it changes absolutely nothing. It is time for the American people to say, OK we will pay our taxes but you must use the money wisely. You must attempt and succeed in removing fraud, theft and waste. You must remove, eliminate or drastically reduce entitlement programs. You must handcuff and muzzle the lobbyist, not put them on your staff.

Videos such give the impression that our money is being, has been and will be spent wisely, efficiently with no waste, theft and fraud, nothing could be further from the truth. Right now they are not even attempting to solve many of the problems they (politicians) have created and perpetuate. Lets not go after anyone segment of the population, lets go after the people and the system that created our crisis.

We should find a way to force politicians to spend within the budget, if they overspend (for any reason) by 10 percent we should cut their pay by 10 percent. Politicians should be forced to participate in the social security program that they have created. Right now they have a programs that is far superior to our social security program. They should participate in our health care program, right now they have their own free and superior health care program. They have a retirement program they pays them substantially more than what a normal program pays (if you can find a company that still has a retirement program).

They should be subject to the same laws that are applicable to the American people, when someone steals $1000 it is a felony and they would most likely lose their job and go to jail. Our politicians have an ethics committee investigate criminal activity for both houses. When one of their own is found guilty it is considered an "ethics violation", they generally keep their job and jail time is not even an option.

It is time to fix Washington DC, if it takes massive protest so be it, but lets protest for the right reasons and direct our anger at the right people. Lets not turn in on one another like our politicians (and the media) want us to do. When we are focusing on the rich we are not focusing on them (politicians). The politicians are saying take your anger out at the rich, that way your are not focused on us!

Lets wise up and really understand the genesis of our problems, lets not direct our anger and frustration at the wrong group or for that matter any group other than our politicians.

[Lochinvar]

What's the difference? Did you really watch the video? There is enough money via the investment accounts held by government owned by we the people taking in trillions of dollars in revenue which easily pays for what is needed. The general budget only accounts for a third of the money in the system. People think when they cry poor (government) that taxes need to go up to pay for everything. We need a new carbon tax, we need more money for this project or that project. It's all bull****. They have the money in spades!

If you think this was all done by one party you are really stuck in a paradigm. Both parties have had access to the books. Tell me, how many of you even knew about the CAFR "Comprehensive Annual Financial Reports"? Most people have no clue there is a general budget and then a total CAFR that shows all the money invested and held. We have been played people. How else do you think they have been robbing us blind, paying off their supporters and black projects? Where are they hiding the money? It's off budget meaning off "General Budget".

We need an audit of all accounting, offshore investment banks, Fed Res and the IMF. This world is in economic turmoil, millions are suffering for NO reason, and All the political leaders are aware of what is happening over the last 70 years. It's the biggest secret, and it's happening on local level too. You can download your states CAFR, State Univ. CAFR etc for free. I have them all for Florida. Think they lost money in the stock market? Bull****, they made money in spades playing derivatives.

I am a conservative constitutionalist. I am a registered independent, and I cannot stand either party. Oh, and one can think Dems are more caring, but I personally would rather have someone teach me how to fish than put me in some soup line getting a fish head once a day for the rest of my life. Generational welfare is nothing more than slavery. The people have not been able to get off the plantation and those who benefit the most via their votes never want them off the plantation, projects, or soup lines.

It makes me sick. We are so much greater than that, and I cannot imagine how much we have lost in potential because some poor girl or boy felt they could never be anything more than a poor welfare recipient. How many lives could they have affected with their gifts if they were only encouraged to develop them rather than become drug dealers, poor working stiffs, drug addicts, prostitutes, uneducated and entitled to their welfare checks. It will take time to turn things around, but dammit, we have to start somewhere.
Does the US GAO not do this?

[modwiz]

I reiterate that the taxes we pay go to the federal reserve to service debt. Our tax problem is a federal reserve problem. The people who ask for our money are sociopaths on a good day. The major corporations and many politicians are unquestionably psychopaths. The very wealthy among us have been hosts to parasitic beings for generations now. They have a genetic predisposition for these being to just enter in and use the bodies. DNA has been altered. Snakes in suits are our biggest problem. There are others, but as in any battle situation, triage is called for.

[Arrowwind]

I think many people miss the much larger point here. Why would we want to send more money to Washington DC when they are using it for "all the wrong reasons". When they are wasting billions upon billions of dollars. It really is not a matter of "whose" money it is, it is a matter of how the money they already get is being spent.

By sending more money to Washington DC it just prolongs the problem, it changes absolutely nothing. It is time for the American people to say, OK we will pay our taxes but you must use the money wisely. You must attempt and succeed in removing fraud, theft and waste. You must remove, eliminate or drastically reduce entitlement programs. You must handcuff and muzzle the lobbyist, not put them on your staff.

Videos such give the impression that our money is being, has been and will be spent wisely, efficiently with no waste, theft and fraud, nothing could be further from the truth. Right now they are not even attempting to solve many of the problems they (politicians) have created and perpetuate. Lets not go after anyone segment of the population, lets go after the people and the system that created our crisis.

We should find a way to force politicians to spend within the budget, if they overspend (for any reason) by 10 percent we should cut their pay by 10 percent. Politicians should be forced to participate in the social security program that they have created. .

Granted this is true, but by cutting taxes they have cut the ability for many to rise in income and education as well as infrastructure repair. The government needs to be diciplined of course but so far we have not found a way to force them to dicipline ... perhaps occupy wall street is the start... I have always said we need a revolution and it may be coming now..

but in cutting taxes they are choking the little guy and literally forcing him onto the street, for the government will not cut their big ticket items... mostly military and black box operations... so we just let the little guy keep croaking? not get an education? not get a small business loan?

I remember when a college education in California was FREE!

Perhaps if we let enough people croak the revolution will get bigger? I dont know about that... perhaps yes, but when you are hungry on the street toting a couple of kids around you have your minds on other things perhaps. .. when you are laying in bed at home dying from a disease you have not money to treat... you are not to likely to hit the streets either. ... perhaps we will get enough angry youth to do the job.. for they have the stamina for a revolution.

[Arrowwind]

[QUOTE=Ba-ba-Ra;377508]Some years back here in California they did a pilot project in Riverside County, I believe. Where welfare recipients were paid, but only if they went to school in designated programs, which within 2 years would qualify them to get a responsible job - or if they took free job training classes to become electricians, plumbers, mechanics, etc. It proved to be very successful. Guess what? The Feds stepped in and said it was unlawful to "force" them to work or go to school. Then the Federal Gov't threatened to cut off all funding to the county unless they disbanned the program.

QUOTE]

Well some years ago there was a federal government program called CETA. It provided grants for those who needed them to take certain tech couses that lead to a degree or diploma. You didnt need to be on welfare to get it. You were not forced. You just had to show a need. I used it to get my nursing education and likely, while living in rural New Mexico at the time, I would not have made it without it. Ronald Regan stopped the program. The problem with the program is that hardly anyone knew about it. Such programs dont need to be forced, they need to be publicized and those who can meet the call will.

They clearly have no interest in educating people any more and I consider the pell grant program highly injust in how money is allocated. If your a white male from a middle class family you might as well forget it. Everyone knows a middle class family cannot afford to colledge educate all their kids and still save for retirement.

[Lochinvar]

I think many people miss the much larger point here. Why would we want to send more money to Washington DC when they are using it for "all the wrong reasons". When they are wasting billions upon billions of dollars. It really is not a matter of "whose" money it is, it is a matter of how the money they already get is being spent.

By sending more money to Washington DC it just prolongs the problem, it changes absolutely nothing. It is time for the American people to say, OK we will pay our taxes but you must use the money wisely. You must attempt and succeed in removing fraud, theft and waste. You must remove, eliminate or drastically reduce entitlement programs. You must handcuff and muzzle the lobbyist, not put them on your staff.

Videos such give the impression that our money is being, has been and will be spent wisely, efficiently with no waste, theft and fraud, nothing could be further from the truth. Right now they are not even attempting to solve many of the problems they (politicians) have created and perpetuate. Lets not go after anyone segment of the population, lets go after the people and the system that created our crisis.

We should find a way to force politicians to spend within the budget, if they overspend (for any reason) by 10 percent we should cut their pay by 10 percent. Politicians should be forced to participate in the social security program that they have created. Right now they have a programs that is far superior to our social security program. They should participate in our health care program, right now they have their own free and superior health care program. They have a retirement program they pays them substantially more than what a normal program pays (if you can find a company that still has a retirement program).

They should be subject to the same laws that are applicable to the American people, when someone steals $1000 it is a felony and they would most likely lose their job and go to jail. Our politicians have an ethics committee investigate criminal activity for both houses. When one of their own is found guilty it is considered an "ethics violation", they generally keep their job and jail time is not even an option.

It is time to fix Washington DC, if it takes massive protest so be it, but lets protest for the right reasons and direct our anger at the right people. Lets not turn in on one another like our politicians (and the media) want us to do. When we are focusing on the rich we are not focusing on them (politicians). The politicians are saying take your anger out at the rich, that way your are not focused on us!

Lets wise up and really understand the genesis of our problems, lets not direct our anger and frustration at the wrong group or for that matter any group other than our politicians.
These jobs are meant to be carried out by the GAO in the US I believe. Similar to the UK (both in what is meant to happen and what actually does). You may find that this is one area where democracy breaks down.

[Unified Serenity]

No, it does not audit the Fed or off shore accounts. There is no investigation there.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


[QUOTE=rgray222;377530]I think many people miss the much larger point here. Why would we want to send more money to Washington DC when they are using it for "all the wrong reasons". When they are wasting billions upon billions of dollars. It really is not a matter of "whose" money it is, it is a matter of how the money they already get is being spent.

By sending more money to Washington DC it just prolongs the problem, it changes absolutely nothing. It is time for the American people to say, OK we will pay our taxes but you must use the money wisely. You must attempt and succeed in removing fraud, theft and waste. You must remove, eliminate or drastically reduce entitlement programs. You must handcuff and muzzle the lobbyist, not put them on your staff.

Videos such give the impression that our money is being, has been and will be spent wisely, efficiently with no waste, theft and fraud, nothing could be further from the truth. Right now they are not even attempting to solve many of the problems they (politicians) have created and perpetuate. Lets not go after anyone segment of the population, lets go after the people and the system that created our crisis.

We should find a way to force politicians to spend within the budget, if they overspend (for any reason) by 10 percent we should cut their pay by 10 percent. Politicians should be forced to participate in the social security program that they have created. .

Granted this is true, but by cutting taxes they have cut the ability for many to rise in income and education as well as infrastructure repair. The government needs to be diciplined of course but so far we have not found a way to force them to dicipline ... perhaps occupy wall street is the start... I have always said we need a revolution and it may be coming now..

but in cutting taxes they are choking the little guy and literally forcing him onto the street, for the government will not cut their big ticket items... mostly military and black box operations... so we just let the little guy keep croaking? not get an education? not get a small business loan?

I remember when a college education in California was FREE!

Perhaps if we let enough people croak the revolution will get bigger? I dont know about that... perhaps yes, but when you are hungry on the street toting a couple of kids around you have your minds on other things perhaps. .. when you are laying in bed at home dying from a disease you have not money to treat... you are not to likely to hit the streets either. ... perhaps we will get enough angry youth to do the job.. for they have the stamina for a revolution.


If we doubled the tax rate, the little guy would get nothing for it. ALL of our taxes do to service the debt created by borrowing money from the Federal Reserve. Money which we can and should print at no interest to our government. It's the biggest racket going, and most people have no idea what fractional banking is, must less who controls the Fed. Reserve or the IMF.

[Lochinvar]

=¤



I think many people miss the much larger point here. Why would we want to send more money to Washington DC when they are using it for "all the wrong reasons". When they are wasting billions upon billions of dollars. It really is not a matter of "whose" money it is, it is a matter of how the money they already get is being spent.

By sending more money to Washington DC it just prolongs the problem, it changes absolutely nothing. It is time for the American people to say, OK we will pay our taxes but you must use the money wisely. You must attempt and succeed in removing fraud, theft and waste. You must remove, eliminate or drastically reduce entitlement programs. You must handcuff and muzzle the lobbyist, not put them on your staff.

Videos such give the impression that our money is being, has been and will be spent wisely, efficiently with no waste, theft and fraud, nothing could be further from the truth. Right now they are not even attempting to solve many of the problems they (politicians) have created and perpetuate. Lets not go after anyone segment of the population, lets go after the people and the system that created our crisis.

We should find a way to force politicians to spend within the budget, if they overspend (for any reason) by 10 percent we should cut their pay by 10 percent. Politicians should be forced to participate in the social security program that they have created. .

Granted this is true, but by cutting taxes they have cut the ability for many to rise in income and education as well as infrastructure repair. The government needs to be diciplined of course but so far we have not found a way to force them to dicipline ... perhaps occupy wall street is the start... I have always said we need a revolution and it may be coming now..

but in cutting taxes they are choking the little guy and literally forcing him onto the street, for the government will not cut their big ticket items... mostly military and black box operations... so we just let the little guy keep croaking? not get an education? not get a small business loan?

I remember when a college education in California was FREE!

Perhaps if we let enough people croak the revolution will get bigger? I dont know about that... perhaps yes, but when you are hungry on the street toting a couple of kids around you have your minds on other things perhaps. .. when you are laying in bed at home dying from a disease you have not money to treat... you are not to likely to hit the streets either. ... perhaps we will get enough angry youth to do the job.. for they have the stamina for a revolution.


If we doubled the tax rate, the little guy would get nothing for it. ALL of our taxes do to service the debt created by borrowing money from the Federal Reserve. Money which we can and should print at no interest to our government. It's the biggest racket going, and most people have no idea what fractional banking is, must less who controls the Fed. Reserve or the IMF.
I know they don't audit the fed. I didn't highlight that bit. There is an investigation here I would bet. I am currently on chat if you would like to join. They don't seem to do what they are meant to either. Just like in the UK. If you dig around you will probably find that they undermine the democratic process deliberately (although it will be one of the most closely guarded secrets (like it is here in the UK)). Most people won't believe it......which is why it has gone on so long. Even less will do anything about it.......

[Lochinvar]

Having worked in the UK equivalent of the US GAO I know that voting makes absolutely to difference whatsoever which is why an investigation here is very important.

[alienHunter]

[QUOTE=Ba-ba-Ra;377508]Some years back here in California they did a pilot project in Riverside County, I believe. Where welfare recipients were paid, but only if they went to school in designated programs, which within 2 years would qualify them to get a responsible job - or if they took free job training classes to become electricians, plumbers, mechanics, etc. It proved to be very successful. Guess what? The Feds stepped in and said it was unlawful to "force" them to work or go to school. Then the Federal Gov't threatened to cut off all funding to the county unless they disbanned the program.

QUOTE]

Well some years ago there was a federal government program called CETA. It provided grants for those who needed them to take certain tech couses that lead to a degree or diploma. You didnt need to be on welfare to get it. You were not forced. You just had to show a need. I used it to get my nursing education and likely, while living in rural New Mexico at the time, I would not have made it without it. Ronald Regan stopped the program. The problem with the program is that hardly anyone knew about it. Such programs dont need to be forced, they need to be publicized and those who can meet the call will.

They clearly have no interest in educating people any more and I consider the pell grant program highly injust in how money is allocated. If your a white male from a middle class family you might as well forget it. Everyone knows a middle class family cannot afford to colledge educate all their kids and still save for retirement.

What part of new mexico...I love new mexico

[risveglio]

banks = elite thieves = Repubtilians.

This administration tried to reach the public with the message that insurance is not very ensuring. It's a moneymaking scheme for banks = elite thieves = Repubtilians. The not very erudite rank-and-file of the Repubtilian Corps was not very receptive to that message.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


When I type in "moveon.org" into google, it suggests that I could also type in "Soros" with it...

So I guess the implication is that those millionaires have fallen under the 'Soros' spell?

On July 26th, 2011, George Soros joined the Republican party. Prior to that, George was a Democrat. The billionaire was a Democratic financier. He was a huge fundraiser for Democratic candidates running for President, United States Senate, and the United States House of Representatives.

"David Mamet, who recently wrote about his conversion from a liberal to a conservative in his book “The Secret Knowledge” was the catalyst. "'David met with Soros on the weekend and convinced George that his liberal ideas were ‘insane,’” said Soros insider Vladka Junga."

http://www.educationnews.org/blogs/156726.html

"Junga also said that Soros no longer believes in Climate Change and is divesting himself from all funding of liberal causes including Media Matters.

“George wants to dedicate his Open Society now to promoting the Tea Party agenda.”

Soros is expected at a major Tea Party rally in St. Louis this weekend. He will be the guest of conservative superstar, Dana Loesch.

The billionaire best known for breaking the Bank of England, is returning money to outside investors in his $25.5 billion firm is ending a career as hedge-fund manager that spanned more than four decades and joining the GOP – full-time.
“He wants to dedicate himself to getting the Republicans back into the White House and to make sure that the Supreme Court retains its conservative advantage” said Soros associate, Marco Ludmilla."

Do we have a source of Soros joining the Republican party? The only one I can find it the Weekly World News. If there is any truth to it, it is just more proof that the Democrats and Republicans are the same party.

[alienHunter]

without looking I'm going to offer a guess..No, there is absolutely no truth to this!

The only tabloid worth its salt was the National Enquirer

[Arrowwind]

What part of new mexico...I love new mexico

I lived in Espanola when I went to nursing school. I had also lived in Taos area and Santa Fe

[alienHunter]

What part of new mexico...I love new mexico

I lived in Espanola when I went to nursing school. I had also lived in Taos area and Santa Fe



major cool...I lived in the ugly part...

I went on a tour of the art galleries in Santa Fe...I was blown away.

[sygh]

G'day All,

In regards to the 'Agenda Project'...

On their strategy page they state (http://agendaproject.org/stratmove.html):

Think of Nike. Nike buys raw materials like canvas and rubber, designs and manufactures shoes, develops “swoosh” and “Just Do It,” and then hires Michael Jordan as its spokesman.
Then skip a sentence and it says:


A philosophy about fairness and the dignity of work combined with an economic theory about labor markets may be turned into a specific policy to raise the minimum wage. Marketing experts translate the policy into a “Living Wage” campaign which is “sold” to voters either through the candidates (wholesale) or through ballot initiatives (retail). Voters then “buy” the product (elect the candidate or pass the ballot initiative).

Really, come on.
This is a a joke isn't it?

This group of people base their strategy on Nike and its 'fairness and the dignity of work'?

Nike, who uses child slave labour...
Nike, who has "unsafe" working conditions (I'd rather say "deadly")...
Nike, who pays a pitence to their child slave work force...

9a_D-azUogg
They are still doing this even though it has been exposed.

Here's John Pilger's documentary, 'The New Rulers Of The World', on "corporate globalisation" which makes mention of Nike's use of child labour.


http://vimeo.com/16366422
http://vimeo.com/16366422
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

For more information on Nike child labor exploitation:
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/1020-01.htm
http://www1.american.edu/ted/nike.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/panorama/970385.stm

In general:
http://www.ilo.org/global/topics/child-labour/lang--it/index.htm
http://johnpilger.com/videos/the-new-rulers-of-the-world
http://ihscslnews.org/view_article.php?id=57
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~eedmonds/clxc.pdf
http://ftp.iza.org/dp2736.pdf

Some would argue that the above mentioned are "faultless crimes". Crimes of the system where everyone is guilty, and no one is responsible.

I was hoping someone would jump on what I said, as to faultless crimes.

These are not faultless crimes; Serenity is really hitting the problem on the head with a hammer; these are crimes of the system. In this case, it is a crime of the corporate system, and the government system that supports it. Of course, when we purchase these items, we too are guilty of taking advantage of the system. You could call that -guilty by association. The arguement that ensues then becomes, you buy them. You have no right to point a finger. Of course, this is a false arguement. Most don't know, or realize this is happening. But the focus becomes the comsumer, instead of the synergy between the corporation and government.

Yup, Serenity is right, and well written I will add, in pinpointing the problem... it's a scam; the system needs to be fixed. We don't need "Free Trade" as much as we need "Fair Trade". We don't need a privately owned Federal Reserve, we need a Treasury. Isn't that what the treasury is supposed to be? We don't need a Corporate Government, we need a Government based on the Constitution!

If nothing else happens there are a couple of things we can do to assist the change we want.
One :Credit verses savings. We need to save our own money, instead of living on credit. There is absolutely nothing wrong with older children living with their parents, adding on to the house and helping to support it a bit, while saving for a home/place of their own. The gypsies do this, here, in America. They also don't move into the new home for another year after completion.

Two: No brainer, we become educated consumers. But we go a step further, by educating the public, and demanding our government start acting like a government, instead of acting like a black-ops corporate umbrella. Further, we demand Corporations be responsible and that means end to end, as a system. Not hard, not even more expensive, it's the way business needs to be run.

Put Government Insider-trading on the ballot. If the House and Senate won't stop themselves, we will make it illegal by ballot. This can go for many things. We can also put S-1867 on the ballot and vote it down. We can even put the "Never Ending War on Terror" on the ballot and vote yea, or nay.

It's also time we head to court. No corporation should have the right to give as much as they want to a politician. That legalizes lobbying. Corporations are not, and never will be citizens. Corporations should be socially, economically and environmentally responsible, as a "system" but never as a citizen!! ( We also might have to end the war in court.)

The cameras on every street corner need to come down. Treat people like a crimminals, and you will have criminals.