Struggling with Christmas

[Providence]

I have been struggling with the concept of Christmas for many weeks now, and I sat down this morning and started to write, which is how I process things, clarify my thoughts.

I decided that I it might be a good thing to share my thoughts with my PA family...



What is Christmas

The most accepted definition of Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ, at least in our culture. I’m not sure anymore about this annual celebration, about the real purpose, or what has become the accepted norm for this holiday.
Becoming aware of what is really going on in the world has changed my perspective so drastically that it is no longer within the realm of my reality, my being, to participate, perpetuate, the generally accepted view of this event as a holiday.
It is difficult because our kids, grandchildren, all have a certain expectation at Christmas. I don’t think it is necessarily a bad thing for them to believe as they do, they have their own lives to live, lessons to learn, at their level of enlightenment. But I feel uneasy about perpetuating what has become the focus of this celebration.
If Jesus Christ was a real person, walked on this earth, healed the sick, raised the dead, all in an effort to bring humanity to a higher understanding of what it means to be a ‘child of God’, I think he would be appalled to see how his teachings have been so misconstrued and misinterpreted.
The first responses I get from others when I mention that Christmas is just not the same is, oh yeah, it has become so crass and commercialized, but you just have to look past that and make it what you want it to be. Easier said than done.
Christmas has lost all it’s magic, because it is no longer an acceptable premise. Christmas, what is Christmas? What should Christmas be? Should there even be a Christmas celebration? If your reality exists in a Christian based religious world, then the answer is clear. If you have gravitated away from the confines of a Christian-based religion, the answers become increasingly muddled and much more difficult to define. If the story of Jesus Christ were totally true, factual, does it really support the ideal of this Christmas celebration as we know it today?
I even question myself as to why I capitalize the word Christmas, or even use the word in the same way as I have in the past, should I even be accepting it as a real event, holiday? Do I soften my perspective in order to keep the peace with family, to walk with them in this point in their journey?
I guess the most obvious solution to my dilemma is to simply be myself, act upon my present understanding, but in reality this is very difficult, especially with family. I have lost a lot of family contact due to adherence to my personal principles and beliefs. Guilt used to keep my in line with the norms for society, but I no longer have much tolerance for any form of guilt in my life.
I would feel much better about the whole Christmas thing if my perspective were to be understood and respected as a part of my reality. I wish I could express my feelings in the most eloquent words, poetry that reveals my innermost heart, and have the understanding and support of those who feel differently, but from past experience, that is not how it plays out.
It’s a very difficult time right now. I look at the world around me and I have such hope and joy over what could be, and right now anyway, the ideas surrounding this annual Christmas celebration seem to warp that reality into something that is somewhat unacceptable to me at this point in my life.
The struggle continues...



Peace,
Providence

[Eagle]

I think we all feel in some way the same as you my friend, how can I enjoy something that takes so much, money, time, and effort to enjoy something that should come naturally. indeed the only time like it seems i get to enjoy it is when the dust has settled and i spend time with the kids. Like church, to me I only get out of it so much before I start looking elsewhere for truth.

[Mark]

Great write, you encapsulate a lot with this. The search for Greater Truth, the inner conflict between living according to the Truth you find and the truth of those around you, the conflict between self and society, self and family and self and Self.

I understand all of the problems with Christmas. But I accept things as they are. I accept people as they are. If someone asks, I'll share what I think I know about the holiday, about Jesus. But I'll sing the songs, because I know them all, I'll go to the parties, I'll say "Merry Christmas" to everyone because I accept the world as it is. I really believe that the change we need to make in the world is the change we need to make in ourselves, first. Doing so does not necessarily mean going out and haranguing family and friends about the holiday. Finding peace within self automatically results in an emanation of that peace without, into your surroundings and those you interact with.

It's the winter solistice, at least. A powerful time of the year. A time that has been celebrated in all cultures, regardless of any kind of particular form of god or divinity. In that sense alone, it is a time worthy of celebration. Because we are within this culture, this is one of the forms of celebration, alongside Hanukkah, Kwanza and others, that is acceptable. I think as long as family respects who you are and what you believe then the same can be done with and for them.

I'm just going to relax and enjoy the Now with those I love and who love me. The weather outside is frightful, but the fire is so, delightful ... y'all know the rest. :angel:

[chancy]

Hello Providence: Thanks for the eloquent take on the new christmas! For many years I have hated the commercialism so much about christmas that I would leave north america and travel since all that was left to the magic time of christmas was the presents. To have people actually say to me " this is not what I wanted! I wanted........I don't even want this"
How we as a people have lost our sense of value. All that seems to be left is how much the gift cost and showing it off.
Providence you are not alone in you thinking! As you continue on your quest for truth you will find that most of our history has been skewed. We were lied to for whatever reason and I do know that it's hard to find the truth due to the propaganda. It takes a life time of searching down the roads to get the truth. Usually the truth is not what we have been told. Best we can do is enjoy giving toys to the kids and smiling about seeing them have fun with them for a few minutes before they want something else....
We know what's right and can only hope others will find out too.
Merry Christmas!! May you have a Christmas that meets your expectations!
chancy

[Providence]

Great write, you encapsulate a lot with this. The search for Greater Truth, the inner conflict between living according to the Truth you find and the truth of those around you, the conflict between self and society, self and family and self and Self.

I understand all of the problems with Christmas. But I accept things as they are. I accept people as they are. If someone asks, I'll share what I think I know about the holiday, about Jesus. But I'll sing the songs, because I know them all, I'll go to the parties, I'll say "Merry Christmas" to everyone because I accept the world as it is. I really believe that the change we need to make in the world is the change we need to make in ourselves, first. Doing so does not necessarily mean going out and haranguing family and friends about the holiday. Finding peace within self automatically results in an emanation of that peace without, into your surroundings and those you interact with.

It's the winter solistice, at least. A powerful time of the year. A time that has been celebrated in all cultures, regardless of any kind of particular form of god or divinity. In that sense alone, it is a time worthy of celebration. Because we are within this culture, this is one of the forms of celebration, alongside Hanukkah, Kwanza and others, that is acceptable. I think as long as family respects who you are and what you believe then the same can be done with and for them.

I'm just going to relax and enjoy the Now with those I love and who love me. The weather outside is frightful, but the fire is so, delightful ... y'all know the rest. :angel:

Excellent perspective Rahkyt, much appreciated.

[777]

What an excedingly eloquent elocution Providence!

I feel similarly disgruntled with the deviation that christmas has taken from its' inception as a concept (whether founded in truth or not.......)

As a spiritualist with a celtic/pagan leaning, I still pine after our pillaged festivals, not least of which is Yule. It is indeed a predicament to harbour absolutely no belief in a religious practice, smile and pollute your own childrens' brain with a capitalist fiction frenzy. It makes me feel hypocritical. My older son (12) knows the drill, but I haven't got the heart to ruin the illusion for my 6 year old. Life will beat that out of him organicly in time.

[Providence]

What an excedingly eloquent elocution Providence!

I feel similarly disgruntled with the deviation that christmas has taken from its' inception as a concept (whether founded in truth or not.......)

As a spiritualist with a celtic/pagan leaning, I still pine after our pillaged festivals, not least of which is Yule. It is indeed a predicament to harbour absolutely no belief in a religious practice, smile and pollute your own childrens' brain with a capitalist fiction frenzy. It makes me feel hypocritical. My older son (12) knows the drill, but I haven't got the heart to ruin the illusion for my 6 year old. Life will beat that put of him organicly in time.

Thank you 777,
Hopefully, our children and grandchildren will form a very different perspective in the years to come as consciousness continues to grow.

[NancyV]

I have ignored Christmas for many years now and only had a Christmas tree with lots of gifts when my children were young....because it was fun for them. My husband and I both rarely remember most holidays, birthdays or anniversaries simply because we don't place importance on them. A few days ago it was our 16th anniversary and we forgot until late in the day and then we laughed, had a few extra mushy kisses and marveled at how lucky we were to finally find someone who could tolerate us by our 4th marriage (both of us had 3 previous marriages) and how we were able to be happily together for so long without killing each other.

If people are truly inspired by the life story of Christ, whether real or embellished, and want to celebrate his birth in any way they choose to...that's good. Many people enjoy the holidays and more power to them. We don't care at all about them so we now do the minimum which is sending gifts to children and grandchildren because we love them and THEY like Christmas. To each his own. I don't need anyone else to agree with me and never let anyone pressure me into enjoying holidays I don't care about. I also like the idea of resisting the incredible media brain washing and societal/peer pressure that expects one to conform to the norm.

[777]

What an excedingly eloquent elocution Providence!

I feel similarly disgruntled with the deviation that christmas has taken from its' inception as a concept (whether founded in truth or not.......)

As a spiritualist with a celtic/pagan leaning, I still pine after our pillaged festivals, not least of which is Yule. It is indeed a predicament to harbour absolutely no belief in a religious practice, smile and pollute your own childrens' brain with a capitalist fiction frenzy. It makes me feel hypocritical. My older son (12) knows the drill, but I haven't got the heart to ruin the illusion for my 6 year old. Life will beat that put of him organicly in time.

Thank you 777,
Hopefully, our children and grandchildren will form a very different perspective in the years to come as consciousness continues to grow.

I have absolute faith in that statement sir.

[aranuk]

I think if Jesus saw what was happening to celebrate his birthday he would be shocked. I can hear Him say "Why only one day a year. why not every day?"

Stan

[Earth Angel]

Thanks to all who have written and especially the OP , it is exactly how my husband and I are feeling. We had friends over last night and we have the tree up and the Nativity scene set up under the tree.....my 21 year old who usually loves the job of doing that this year said ' NO thanks, down with that sort of thing" As we sat with friends who are also awakening and were also raised with the traditional catholic christmas we were questioning why we are even doing it at all.....I feel the same as the OP that this is a story we have been sold as part of the religious control system but then again I love the lights and the music and all the christmas shows........but as I stated in another post somewhere I am really finding it hard to get into it this year.......I will do the presents for my kids who are now in their 20's and totally awake as well so I think the coming years will see things start to slide that we once felt were so ultra important.......all that stress was really counter to what the season was meant to be. As my daughters favourite mini pops christmas album sings "why can't we love each other all year round" ......that is the goal, to keep the spirit alive all year ........Merry Merry to all

[eaglespirit]

Thank You for sharing openly, Providence...I feel many of Us here have much the same misgivings...the holiday was created as a distortion and deception.

The Winter Solstice is a beautiful energy and time of the year...that We can enjoy each in Our Own Ways!

I simply look at christmas get-togethers as a time to re-kindle love with my family in the now...that is my own personal rhythm by choice.

Thanks again...and All Others that have shared here.

[Providence]

Thank You for sharing openly, Providence...I feel many of Us here have much the same misgivings...the holiday was created as a distortion and deception.

The Winter Solstice is a beautiful energy and time of the year...that We can enjoy each in Our Own Ways!

I simply look at christmas get-togethers as a time to re-kindle love with my family in the now...that is my own personal rhythm by choice.

Thanks again...and All Others that have shared here.

Thank you eaglespirit! It would be much easier for me if all I had to do was to attend the family celebration, but since the loss of my parents a few years back, the torch has been passed to me to carry on the traditions of the past so I struggle...

[jagman]

The Romans celebrated Mithras' birthday and the Feast of Saturnalia during the winter solstice. They were pagans. In the year 350 the pope, in an attempt to convert pagans to what would become the Catholic brand of Christianity, declared it to be Jesus' birthday.

The perpetuated lie of Christmas, Is one of the most sicking lies that has ever been told. Even if you buy the premise that Jesus was born on
December 25 ( Which he was most certainly not! ) Lets look at the Christmas holiday. Parents all over the world lie to their children telling
them about the fictitious character Santa Clause!( We start out lying to them!) And yet we want honesty from them.

Millions of families rack up thousands of dollars of debt each year (which they cant afford!) celebrating Christmas.( Which causes a host of many other problems.)
A fight broke out at my local Walmart this year during the Black Friday sale.(One of the combatants was stabbed!)
And that was only one incident during these sales, this year. I could go on and on. IMO God Plays no part in the celebration we call Christmas!
No disrespect to the op, I have had this rant on my mind for a while.

[Providence]

The Romans celebrated Mithras' birthday and the Feast of Saturnalia during the winter solstice. They were pagans. In the year 350 the pope, in an attempt to convert pagans to what would become the Catholic brand of Christianity, declared it to be Jesus' birthday.

The perpetuated lie of Christmas, Is one of the most sicking lies that has ever been told. Even if you buy the premise that Jesus was born on
December 25 ( Which he was most certainly not! ) Lets look at the Christmas holiday. Parents all over the world lie to their children telling
them about the fictitious character Santa Clause!( We start out lying to them!) And yet we want honesty from them.

Millions of families rack up thousands of dollars of debt each year (which they cant afford!) celebrating Christmas.( Which causes a host of many other problems.)
A fight broke out at my local Walmart this year during the Black Friday sale.(One of the combatants was stabbed!)
And that was only one incident during these sales, this year. I could go on and on. IMO God Plays no part in the celebration we call Christmas!
No disrespect to the op, I have had this rant on my mind for a while.

None taken jagman, I totally understand your viewpoint and I share your thoughts as well, thanks for sharing!

[Sidney]

I have felt for a while now that Christmas (among other holidays), has been over-commercialized by design, so people spend money (that they don't have), that they could be saving. If you have children, it is very difficult to not go along with the traditions. That said, we almost have our kids agreeing to maybe travel, instead of presents in the coming years. If it's Jesus Birthday, we could be gifting him by taking care of our precious planet, and feeding the hungry.

[Dawn]

I don't have a problem with everyone deciding to have a celebration. What people decide to believe is their choice IMO.

I don't see this celebration in the darkest time of the year (well, for the Northern hemisphere anyway) to be a problem. I decided long ago to call it the 'festival of lights' because so much that goes on involves decorating with tiny sparkly lights or candles.

I know the history of the celebration. But history is not here now. The festival of lights is here.

I like this festival because it allows me to give presents to my neighbors that they feel OK accepting. So, I can 'love on them a little bit' without making them uncomfortable. In my own home I don't decorate ... except to display any Holiday cards I get on my wall for a while, but I love looking at the decorations others do.

Last night I made some spicy hot chocolate and went on a drive for about 2 hours (I only drive my car about 2-3 times monthly so this is a fun extravagance). I was looking at all the decorations people had set up to celebrate the dark time of the year with lights. It was wonderful seeing how people had spent time being creative... for no real reason... just to create beauty.

lf you Lighten up a bit about the beliefs of others, you can enjoy the beauty of the human spirit! It is all good.

[conk]

I've read that we have Mark Twain to thank for all the Christmas hooey. In his time Easter was much bigger than Christmas. After soaring sales of his Christmas Carol story, the celebrations took off like mad. Add the religious fervor, marketing/advertising, and the materialism, and we have what we have today.

Edit: Dickens, not Twain. Doh!

[Jay]

Thank you for sharing Providence - it's good to not feel alone in this struggle. BTW I have it every year & wish I could hibernate like a bear :o (October until after the dreaded event would be preferred in any weather )
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTFgSct3hBa4wGLsVKvhu97qCwKbsYhO0KPx7zedChiJwoV7cfaYw
Phrygian cap ..

[HORIZONS]

Just a thought: The bottom line for many retailers is that without the Christmas sales they would not make it another year. Many P & L's depend on Christmas sales to keep them in the black - this is one reason why the commercialism is so "in your face" like it is - without these $$$ many businesses would just not make it and go under, and we would all feel that.

I understand yours and the other posters feelings on this subject as I have dealt with this issue many times before - but I have learned to let it all go - I do what I can to bless others without going into debt - and hope for a better future for us all. Although I fully agree that Jesus was not born on 12/25 the important thing at the birth of the Christ is what the Angels said: Glory to God in the highest - Peace on earth - Goodwill towards all mankind. That is the Christmas spirit to me.

[selinam]

I have been struggling with the concept of Christmas for many weeks now, and I sat down this morning and started to write, which is how I process things, clarify my thoughts.

I decided that I it might be a good thing to share my thoughts with my PA family...



What is Christmas

The most accepted definition of Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ, at least in our culture. I’m not sure anymore about this annual celebration, about the real purpose, or what has become the accepted norm for this holiday.
Becoming aware of what is really going on in the world has changed my perspective so drastically that it is no longer within the realm of my reality, my being, to participate, perpetuate, the generally accepted view of this event as a holiday.
It is difficult because our kids, grandchildren, all have a certain expectation at Christmas. I don’t think it is necessarily a bad thing for them to believe as they do, they have their own lives to live, lessons to learn, at their level of enlightenment. But I feel uneasy about perpetuating what has become the focus of this celebration.
If Jesus Christ was a real person, walked on this earth, healed the sick, raised the dead, all in an effort to bring humanity to a higher understanding of what it means to be a ‘child of God’, I think he would be appalled to see how his teachings have been so misconstrued and misinterpreted.
The first responses I get from others when I mention that Christmas is just not the same is, oh yeah, it has become so crass and commercialized, but you just have to look past that and make it what you want it to be. Easier said than done.
Christmas has lost all it’s magic, because it is no longer an acceptable premise. Christmas, what is Christmas? What should Christmas be? Should there even be a Christmas celebration? If your reality exists in a Christian based religious world, then the answer is clear. If you have gravitated away from the confines of a Christian-based religion, the answers become increasingly muddled and much more difficult to define. If the story of Jesus Christ were totally true, factual, does it really support the ideal of this Christmas celebration as we know it today?
I even question myself as to why I capitalize the word Christmas, or even use the word in the same way as I have in the past, should I even be accepting it as a real event, holiday? Do I soften my perspective in order to keep the peace with family, to walk with them in this point in their journey?
I guess the most obvious solution to my dilemma is to simply be myself, act upon my present understanding, but in reality this is very difficult, especially with family. I have lost a lot of family contact due to adherence to my personal principles and beliefs. Guilt used to keep my in line with the norms for society, but I no longer have much tolerance for any form of guilt in my life.
I would feel much better about the whole Christmas thing if my perspective were to be understood and respected as a part of my reality. I wish I could express my feelings in the most eloquent words, poetry that reveals my innermost heart, and have the understanding and support of those who feel differently, but from past experience, that is not how it plays out.
It’s a very difficult time right now. I look at the world around me and I have such hope and joy over what could be, and right now anyway, the ideas surrounding this annual Christmas celebration seem to warp that reality into something that is somewhat unacceptable to me at this point in my life.
The struggle continues...



Peace,
Providence

Hi Providence

I too have really struggled this year with Christmas. Even as early as last Christmas, I still felt somewhat 'excited' by it, even though it is mostly commercialised right now. I was raised Catholic, with all that that entails, but do not believe in ANY religion at all now - I see them all as a means of control on the population. I'm not sure if I'll be decorating the house this time next year.... and that's kind of difficult, as you know, when you have a family. It's really hard to 'celebrate' something you no longer believe in. This past year has really changed a lot of my thinking.

Selina

[Providence]

I don't have a problem with everyone deciding to have a celebration. What people decide to believe is their choice IMO.

I don't see this celebration in the darkest time of the year (well, for the Northern hemisphere anyway) to be a problem. I decided long ago to call it the 'festival of lights' because so much that goes on involves decorating with tiny sparkly lights or candles.

I know the history of the celebration. But history is not here now. The festival of lights is here.

I like this festival because it allows me to give presents to my neighbors that they feel OK accepting. So, I can 'love on them a little bit' without making them uncomfortable. In my own home I don't decorate ... except to display any Holiday cards I get on my wall for a while, but I love looking at the decorations others do.

Last night I made some spicy hot chocolate and went on a drive for about 2 hours (I only drive my car about 2-3 times monthly so this is a fun extravagance). I was looking at all the decorations people had set up to celebrate the dark time of the year with lights. It was wonderful seeing how people had spent time being creative... for no real reason... just to create beauty.

lf you Lighten up a bit about the beliefs of others, you can enjoy the beauty of the human spirit! It is all good.

I like your take on things Dawn, and I certainly have felt that way in the past, to lighten up and just enjoy the beauty of the human spirit. I feel differently this year, I don't know exactly why, why now, but for the first time in years I am seeing with different eyes and there is a certain amount of urgency also. I really appreciate your thoughts, and wish you a wonderful festival of lights this year.

[eaglespirit]

I like your take on things Dawn, and I certainly have felt that way in the past, to lighten up and just enjoy the beauty of the human spirit. I feel differently this year, I don't know exactly why, why now, but for the first time in years I am seeing with different eyes and there is a certain amount of urgency also. I really appreciate your thoughts, and wish you a wonderful festival of lights this year.

Hi again, Providence...following Your thread here for some good reason!

I personally feel we are right smack dab in the middle of some phenomenal changes which are going to go to 'light speed', so to speak, especially this coming year, now just ahead of us. This energy is in place and taking a stronger hold, daily now, imho.
Sooo...this may be adding to Your sense of urgency.
As with me...I truly wish all the deception would just fizzle in one fell swoop and everyone with a kind heart would get on the same page(or closer anyhow)...but this is not what is taking place and I have to accept the pace of the waking of others.
The best I can do is love them...and share in their own kind of happiness quietly without judgement...tough at times...but fulfilling nonetheless.

[Providence]

I have been struggling with the concept of Christmas for many weeks now, and I sat down this morning and started to write, which is how I process things, clarify my thoughts.

I decided that I it might be a good thing to share my thoughts with my PA family...



What is Christmas

The most accepted definition of Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ, at least in our culture. I’m not sure anymore about this annual celebration, about the real purpose, or what has become the accepted norm for this holiday.
Becoming aware of what is really going on in the world has changed my perspective so drastically that it is no longer within the realm of my reality, my being, to participate, perpetuate, the generally accepted view of this event as a holiday.
It is difficult because our kids, grandchildren, all have a certain expectation at Christmas. I don’t think it is necessarily a bad thing for them to believe as they do, they have their own lives to live, lessons to learn, at their level of enlightenment. But I feel uneasy about perpetuating what has become the focus of this celebration.
If Jesus Christ was a real person, walked on this earth, healed the sick, raised the dead, all in an effort to bring humanity to a higher understanding of what it means to be a ‘child of God’, I think he would be appalled to see how his teachings have been so misconstrued and misinterpreted.
The first responses I get from others when I mention that Christmas is just not the same is, oh yeah, it has become so crass and commercialized, but you just have to look past that and make it what you want it to be. Easier said than done.
Christmas has lost all it’s magic, because it is no longer an acceptable premise. Christmas, what is Christmas? What should Christmas be? Should there even be a Christmas celebration? If your reality exists in a Christian based religious world, then the answer is clear. If you have gravitated away from the confines of a Christian-based religion, the answers become increasingly muddled and much more difficult to define. If the story of Jesus Christ were totally true, factual, does it really support the ideal of this Christmas celebration as we know it today?
I even question myself as to why I capitalize the word Christmas, or even use the word in the same way as I have in the past, should I even be accepting it as a real event, holiday? Do I soften my perspective in order to keep the peace with family, to walk with them in this point in their journey?
I guess the most obvious solution to my dilemma is to simply be myself, act upon my present understanding, but in reality this is very difficult, especially with family. I have lost a lot of family contact due to adherence to my personal principles and beliefs. Guilt used to keep my in line with the norms for society, but I no longer have much tolerance for any form of guilt in my life.
I would feel much better about the whole Christmas thing if my perspective were to be understood and respected as a part of my reality. I wish I could express my feelings in the most eloquent words, poetry that reveals my innermost heart, and have the understanding and support of those who feel differently, but from past experience, that is not how it plays out.
It’s a very difficult time right now. I look at the world around me and I have such hope and joy over what could be, and right now anyway, the ideas surrounding this annual Christmas celebration seem to warp that reality into something that is somewhat unacceptable to me at this point in my life.
The struggle continues...



Peace,
Providence

Hi Providence

I too have really struggled this year with Christmas. Even as early as last Christmas, I still felt somewhat 'excited' by it, even though it is mostly commercialised right now. I was raised Catholic, with all that that entails, but do not believe in ANY religion at all now - I see them all as a means of control on the population. I'm not sure if I'll be decorating the house this time next year.... and that's kind of difficult, as you know, when you have a family. It's really hard to 'celebrate' something you no longer believe in. This past year has really changed a lot of my thinking.

Selina

Thank you Selinam!
I am thinking of having a family get-together around the last of the month. Not a Christmas celebration, just a family gathering where we can spend some good quality time with our kids and grandchildren. Maybe that's a way to free myself from the required restraints and social structures of corporate Christmas and bring it back towards a real celebration of family, love, and life. Just thinking out loud.

[Providence]

I like your take on things Dawn, and I certainly have felt that way in the past, to lighten up and just enjoy the beauty of the human spirit. I feel differently this year, I don't know exactly why, why now, but for the first time in years I am seeing with different eyes and there is a certain amount of urgency also. I really appreciate your thoughts, and wish you a wonderful festival of lights this year.

Hi again, Providence...following Your thread here for some good reason!

I personally feel we are right smack dab in the middle of some phenomenal changes which are going to go to 'light speed', so to speak, especially this coming year, now just ahead of us. This energy is in place and taking a stronger hold, daily now, imho.
Sooo...this may be adding to Your sense of urgency.
As with me...I truly wish all the deception would just fizzle in one fell swoop and everyone with a kind heart would get on the same page(or closer anyhow)...but this is not what is taking place and I have to accept the pace of the waking of others.
The best I can do is love them...and share in their own kind of happiness quietly without judgement...tough at times...but fulfilling nonetheless.

Once again eaglespirit, I am very thankful for your post!

I so agree that we are on the precipice of some very significant changes within us and our world. I hope I didn't come off as judgmental towards others with different beliefs, that is truly not my intent. This is just something that has been impressed upon me, and I am going to do my best to stay true to my heart, and yet remain in love and respect for others in their direction of life as well, and do it peacefully, respectfully, and without judgement.

[eaglespirit]

Once again eaglespirit, I am very thankful for your post!

I so agree that we are on the precipice of some very significant changes within us and our world. I hope I didn't come off as judgmental towards others with different beliefs, that is truly not my intent. This is just something that has been impressed upon me, and I am going to do my best to stay true to my heart, and yet remain in love and respect for others in their direction of life as well, and do it peacefully, respectfully, and without judgement.

Not at all with me, Providence...it is all good.
We are getting to a more balanced place, together!

[grapevine]

I have been struggling with the concept of Christmas for many weeks now, and I sat down this morning and started to write, which is how I process things, clarify my thoughts.

I decided that I it might be a good thing to share my thoughts with my PA family...



What is Christmas

The most accepted definition of Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ, at least in our culture. I’m not sure anymore about this annual celebration, about the real purpose, or what has become the accepted norm for this holiday.
Becoming aware of what is really going on in the world has changed my perspective so drastically that it is no longer within the realm of my reality, my being, to participate, perpetuate, the generally accepted view of this event as a holiday.
It is difficult because our kids, grandchildren, all have a certain expectation at Christmas. I don’t think it is necessarily a bad thing for them to believe as they do, they have their own lives to live, lessons to learn, at their level of enlightenment. But I feel uneasy about perpetuating what has become the focus of this celebration.
If Jesus Christ was a real person, walked on this earth, healed the sick, raised the dead, all in an effort to bring humanity to a higher understanding of what it means to be a ‘child of God’, I think he would be appalled to see how his teachings have been so misconstrued and misinterpreted.
The first responses I get from others when I mention that Christmas is just not the same is, oh yeah, it has become so crass and commercialized, but you just have to look past that and make it what you want it to be. Easier said than done.
Christmas has lost all it’s magic, because it is no longer an acceptable premise. Christmas, what is Christmas? What should Christmas be? Should there even be a Christmas celebration? If your reality exists in a Christian based religious world, then the answer is clear. If you have gravitated away from the confines of a Christian-based religion, the answers become increasingly muddled and much more difficult to define. If the story of Jesus Christ were totally true, factual, does it really support the ideal of this Christmas celebration as we know it today?
I even question myself as to why I capitalize the word Christmas, or even use the word in the same way as I have in the past, should I even be accepting it as a real event, holiday? Do I soften my perspective in order to keep the peace with family, to walk with them in this point in their journey?
I guess the most obvious solution to my dilemma is to simply be myself, act upon my present understanding, but in reality this is very difficult, especially with family. I have lost a lot of family contact due to adherence to my personal principles and beliefs. Guilt used to keep my in line with the norms for society, but I no longer have much tolerance for any form of guilt in my life.
I would feel much better about the whole Christmas thing if my perspective were to be understood and respected as a part of my reality. I wish I could express my feelings in the most eloquent words, poetry that reveals my innermost heart, and have the understanding and support of those who feel differently, but from past experience, that is not how it plays out.
It’s a very difficult time right now. I look at the world around me and I have such hope and joy over what could be, and right now anyway, the ideas surrounding this annual Christmas celebration seem to warp that reality into something that is somewhat unacceptable to me at this point in my life.
The struggle continues...



Peace,
Providence

Hi Providence

You know what? On a spiritual level I agree with you 100% but there's a sort of magic in the air at Christmas that almost everyone buys into, especially the kids. And we are all kids at heart. Do you remember a couple of weeks before Christmas your parents telling you that "Santa is watching ....." at any misdemeanour and then hanging up your Christmas stocking on Christmas Eve ...? well that is all part of the magic that we buy into at this time. Let's all just think of Christmas and what it means to us ........ And we COULD make it Christmas all year round for everyone if we wanted to ......IF WE WANTED TO....... just saying. But asking .... why don't we? :(

[Gone002]

Today christmas has no meaning to the mass of western people. They have no idea about Jesus christ or God the father. They have no idea about religion point blank. Christmas means Money and presents to the masses. I even find people of other faiths taking part in christmas. In the end, to each his own.

On a more personal level as a christian, i am lossing faith in mand kind.

[Providence]

Hi Providence

You know what? On a spiritual level I agree with you 100% but there's a sort of magic in the air at Christmas that almost everyone buys into, especially the kids. And we are all kids at heart. Do you remember a couple of weeks before Christmas your parents telling you that "Santa is watching ....." at any misdemeanour and then hanging up your Christmas stocking on Christmas Eve ...? well that is all part of the magic that we buy into at this time. Let's all just think of Christmas and what it means to us ........ And we COULD make it Christmas all year round for everyone if we wanted to ......IF WE WANTED TO....... just saying. But asking .... why don't we? :(

Thank you windmill! And yes, I do remember those times, and that is definitely one of many factors that is responsible for my struggle with the Christmas holiday this year. I also remember judging the gifts I got against those of my siblings and cousins, why did my sister get more than me? I remember judging people by the gifts that they gave me, and my judgment of those individuals sadly carried on through my childhood. I also remember some bitter disappointments when 'Santa' failed to supply me with my specific requests. Maybe those are just my experiences, and I am the only one that applied these judgements to the kind acts of others, but none the less that was my experience. So yes, I have some great experiences from my childhood and those memories will always be special to me, but some of those experiences produced negative factors that I have had to deal with more objectively when I became an adult. Still deep down I feel that we can't emotionally attach ourselves to elements of our past, not in such a way as to deny the present reality.

[Providence]

Today christmas has no meaning to the mass of western people. They have no idea about Jesus christ or God the father. They have no idea about religion point blank. Christmas means Money and presents to the masses. I even find people of other faiths taking part in christmas. In the end, to each his own.

On a more personal level as a christian, i am lossing faith in mand kind.

Much in agreement celt, thank you. I have to admit that I was curious when I posted this thread (as a Westerner) to see how others around the world interpreted my dilemma. Again, your post points out one of the crux elements of this issue for me. Commercialization, which has become corporate indoctrination, of false premises, traditions, and beliefs (all based on greed it seems) which are now almost inexorably molded into our perception of Christmas. I want to find a way to have a rich family get together that stands successfully, gracefully, and yet with defiance, up side by side against the falseness of many of our Christmas holiday traditions.

(Still struggling, but feeling much better about a possible solution...)

[gandra99]

http://www.sl-webs.com/custimages/dd395-Lawn%20(site).jpg

[grapevine]

Hi Providence

You know what? On a spiritual level I agree with you 100% but there's a sort of magic in the air at Christmas that almost everyone buys into, especially the kids. And we are all kids at heart. Do you remember a couple of weeks before Christmas your parents telling you that "Santa is watching ....." at any misdemeanour and then hanging up your Christmas stocking on Christmas Eve ...? well that is all part of the magic that we buy into at this time. Let's all just think of Christmas and what it means to us ........ And we COULD make it Christmas all year round for everyone if we wanted to ......IF WE WANTED TO....... just saying. But asking .... why don't we? :(

Thank you windmill! And yes, I do remember those times, and that is definitely one of many factors that is responsible for my struggle with the Christmas holiday this year. I also remember judging the gifts I got against those of my siblings and cousins, why did my sister get more than me? I remember judging people by the gifts that they gave me, and my judgment of those individuals sadly carried on through my childhood. I also remember some bitter disappointments when 'Santa' failed to supply me with my specific requests. Maybe those are just my experiences, and I am the only one that applied these judgements to the kind acts of others, but none the less that was my experience. So yes, I have some great experiences from my childhood and those memories will always be special to me, but some of those experiences produced negative factors that I have had to deal with more objectively when I became an adult. Still deep down I feel that we can't emotionally attach ourselves to elements of our past, not in such a way as to deny the present reality.

Those feelings of disappointment are what we feel - briefly - as kids, not to be dragged up with us into adulthood Providence. That is all part of growing up and not just at Christmastime. I remember when the thought that Father Christmas was watching was the only time I tidied my toys away without argument. When we are grownups we should have a different perspective, which is why we keep it alive - for our children. If we did away with Christmas and the negative aspects of the retail orgy, etc. that comes with it, it would be the same as any other time. And then what? At Christmas time we have an opportunity to reflect upon the season of goodwill to all men. A crock of **** maybe but there are still enough positives, imo, for us to keep it going.

[Kindling]

Hi Providence, Enjoying your thread. Celebrating Christmas has confused me the past few years, too. I am excited by the season - the lights, decorating, celebrations, the loving spirit, the cooking. This year I have tried to put aside the confusion and just enjoy it even tho I don't believe in the religious origins of the Holiday or the horrible commercialism that has become associated with it. Good to know others have the same struggle with balancing the desire to celebrate a happy time and being true to our beliefs. I'm not doing as many purchased gifts for the past few years. Instead I'm sharing homemade things that my daughter and I work on together and finding ways to make each gift personal and thoughtful. Thanks for this timely discussion Providence! Happy Holidays to all :-)

[Providence]

Hi Providence

You know what? On a spiritual level I agree with you 100% but there's a sort of magic in the air at Christmas that almost everyone buys into, especially the kids. And we are all kids at heart. Do you remember a couple of weeks before Christmas your parents telling you that "Santa is watching ....." at any misdemeanour and then hanging up your Christmas stocking on Christmas Eve ...? well that is all part of the magic that we buy into at this time. Let's all just think of Christmas and what it means to us ........ And we COULD make it Christmas all year round for everyone if we wanted to ......IF WE WANTED TO....... just saying. But asking .... why don't we? :(

Thank you windmill! And yes, I do remember those times, and that is definitely one of many factors that is responsible for my struggle with the Christmas holiday this year. I also remember judging the gifts I got against those of my siblings and cousins, why did my sister get more than me? I remember judging people by the gifts that they gave me, and my judgment of those individuals sadly carried on through my childhood. I also remember some bitter disappointments when 'Santa' failed to supply me with my specific requests. Maybe those are just my experiences, and I am the only one that applied these judgements to the kind acts of others, but none the less that was my experience. So yes, I have some great experiences from my childhood and those memories will always be special to me, but some of those experiences produced negative factors that I have had to deal with more objectively when I became an adult. Still deep down I feel that we can't emotionally attach ourselves to elements of our past, not in such a way as to deny the present reality.

Those feelings of disappointment are what we feel - briefly - as kids, not to be dragged up with us into adulthood Providence. That is all part of growing up and not just at Christmastime. I remember when the thought that Father Christmas was watching was the only time I tidied my toys away without argument. When we are grownups we should have a different perspective, which is why we keep it alive - for our children. If we did away with Christmas and the negative aspects of the retail orgy, etc. that comes with it, it would be the same as any other time. And then what? At Christmas time we have an opportunity to reflect upon the season of goodwill to all men. A crock of **** maybe but there are still enough positives, imo, for us to keep it going.

Agreed windmill, my purpose for bringing out the negative Christmas experiences was only to emphasize that the Christmas holiday in our memories includes a balance of magic as well as disappointment. I was trying to bring a more balanced viewpoint than concentrating only on the magic things we tend to remember.

And my point in this discussion was to open the door for conversation, as a PA family member I respect and listen to the opinions expressed and I thought it might help me to resolve my self inflicted dilemma. I'm not trying to do away with Christmas, simply trying to find the real spirit of the season, and to bring that out in a concrete form that I can respectfully share with my loved ones.

[Providence]

Hi Providence, Enjoying your thread. Celebrating Christmas has confused me the past few years, too. I am excited by the season - the lights, decorating, celebrations, the loving spirit, the cooking. This year I have tried to put aside the confusion and just enjoy it even tho I don't believe in the religious origins of the Holiday or the horrible commercialism that has become associated with it. Good to know others have the same struggle with balancing the desire to celebrate a happy time and being true to our beliefs. I'm not doing as many purchased gifts for the past few years. Instead I'm sharing homemade things that my daughter and I work on together and finding ways to make each gift personal and thoughtful. Thanks for this timely discussion Providence! Happy Holidays to all :-)

Kindling, thank you! I really identified with your statement: "Good to know others have the same struggle with balancing the desire to celebrate a happy time and being true to our beliefs." That is so true of how I feel, and it helps to know that there are others who have had to deal with this as well. Happy holidays to you and as always, peace!

[Carmody]

My lyrics:

Jingle Bells, Santa smells

Like he's drinking all his pay,

He's running down to the reindeer pound, naked as a Jay, oh!

[Cottage Rose]

I think we all feel in some way the same as you my friend, how can I enjoy something that takes so much, money, time, and effort to enjoy something that should come naturally. indeed the only time like it seems i get to enjoy it is when the dust has settled and i spend time with the kids. Like church, to me I only get out of it so much before I start looking elsewhere for truth.

Right Providence & Dig. I enjoy giving gifts spontaneously when I intuitively know something someone I know would need or want it. This commercialized compulsory gift giving extravaganza, filled with guilt, anxiety, and overspending is an American nightmare perpetrated on the population to a large degree by Freud's nephew Bernays who was a founder of the CFR in cahoots with large retailers. There is no soul left in it. It is a mind control scheme to get the population out to the mall in a sentimental mood listening to Christmas music so they can get rid of a lot of useless, overpriced goods. I have never enjoyed doing the wave at a football game, or joining a herd, and such a large percent of the population feeling obligated to follow this prescribed script at the same time every year really grates on my nerves. And, it always seems, I feel right on the verge of some eureka moment when I am invaded by this Holiday Mania Monster.

[Providence]

I think we all feel in some way the same as you my friend, how can I enjoy something that takes so much, money, time, and effort to enjoy something that should come naturally. indeed the only time like it seems i get to enjoy it is when the dust has settled and i spend time with the kids. Like church, to me I only get out of it so much before I start looking elsewhere for truth.

Right Providence & Dig. I enjoy giving gifts spontaneously when I intuitively know something someone I know would need or want it. This commercialized compulsory gift giving extravaganza, filled with guilt, anxiety, and overspending is an American nightmare perpetrated on the population to a large degree by Freud's nephew Bernays who was a founder of the CFR in cahoots with larger retailers. There is no soul left in it. It is a mind control scheme to get the population out to the mall in a sentimental mood listening to Christmas music so they can get rid of a lot of useless, overpriced goods. I have never enjoyed doing the wave at a football game, or joining a herd, and such a large percent of the population feeling obligated to follow this prescribed script at the same time every year really grates on my nerves. And, it always seems, I feel right on the verge of some eureka moment when I am invaded by this Holiday Mania Monster that stops me in mid stream.

Ah... yes, I do agree, but now what can we do about it?

I sense that most of those that have responded feel that they do understand what I'm going through, but they feel it is best and appropriate to maybe keep my feelings to myself, to do my best to find the silver lining in the cloud, and to just let go and enjoy the good that I find in the season. Fair, and appropriate responses, and much respect to those who have given their perspectives.

Personally, I am just at a point in my life, at this moment in time, where I feel that I need to step out of the fray and go a different direction. Maybe for my kids or grandkids sake, maybe it's just for me, maybe it's the wrong choice, I don't know but I am searching for direction and this discussion has been a godsend in many ways. It is helping me to find the 'mean', the balance, that works for me and for my situation and given me the opportunity to honestly explore my own thoughts and feelings on the subject by gazing into the mirror.

Thanks you Cottage Rose!

[Cottage Rose]

Ah... yes, I do agree, but now what can we do about it?

I sense that most of those that have responded feel that they do understand what I'm going through, but they feel it is best and appropriate to maybe keep my feelings to myself, to do my best to find the silver lining in the cloud, and to just let go and enjoy the good that I find in the season. Fair, and appropriate responses, and much respect to those who have given their perspectives.

Personally, I am just at a point in my life, at this moment in time, where I feel that I need to step out of the fray and go a different direction. Maybe for my kids or grandkids sake, maybe it's just for me, maybe it's the wrong choice, I don't know but I am searching for direction and this discussion has been a godsend in many ways. It is helping me to find the 'mean', the balance, that works for me and for my situation and given me the opportunity to honestly explore my own thoughts and feelings on the subject by gazing into the mirror.

Thanks you Cottage Rose!

I understand your dilemma. My position is completely different in that there are no children involved.
I am only feeling a bit guilty in potentially saying no to an uncomfortable get together with a brother and his inlaws.
If there were children involved, I would be feeling as you do, responsible for setting an appropriate standard.

[bearcow]

hopefully this modern Christmas hymn will put you a more festive mood. enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqfZUX5svCg

[gdiggs]

I haven't 'celebrated' Christmas for about 18 years. About the only thing it means to me is that it's just another day when the library is closed. Admittedly it has been easier for me to avoid that it seems for most folks. I am an only child with no children of my own, my parents aren't that concerned with the whole deal and are kind of the black sheep of my extended family. I went to a couple of family dinners with my previous girlfriend which were nice, but for the sake of argument lets not count them.

The crass commercialization is one aspect I think we can all agree on. I find the societal pressure to rabidly consume and the indoctrination of children into this process utterly disgusting. The other huge aspect of Christmas I find highly problematic is the hypocrisy of the goodwill. People say that it is a time for families to come together, that giving is more important than receiving, peace on earth and goodwill to mankind, and so on. These are all fine and wonderful things to be sure, but what about on the other 364 days of the year?

If you want to give somebody a gift, then just give them a gift. Don't wait for this one day of the year when it feels like a moral obligation. We shouldn't have to be told when we should come together with those we love. As it is, there seems to be so many people who come together at Christmas who don't really want to be together leading to the arguments, the righteously abandoned dinners, the slammed doors, tears and recriminations.

I appreciate that we all are busy people and sometimes live far apart from those we care about and it can be difficult getting to each other but I see this more as a problem in how we organize our society. Trying to fix it with Christmas obligations is like putting a Band-aid on a broken arm.

If folks want to celebrate I have no problem with that at all, I don't feel a Grinch about the whole thing. It just means very little to me and all I ask is that my opting out be respected. In general, though, I would like to see less of Christmas and more of trying to be more decent human beings throughout the rest of the year.

Falalala lala la la

[1inMany]

Providence, that was absolutely and positively beautiful. I cannot imagine you wishing to pour your heart out more poetically, as it was poetry to me. Since I'm new around here, maybe that sounds weird, but I can't help it.

Just for the sake of different perspectives, maybe you'll appreciate this one ;) I was raised believing Christmas was a terrible, horrible atrocity. We NEVER celebrated it. Not once. Until my parents divorced, that is. My mom married someone who had the "normal" western Christmas background, and Santa came for the first time when I was probably 12. Duh, of course I did not believe there actually was a Santa that just all-of-a-sudden decided to visit my house after 12 years. But, that year my mom took us shopping in downtown Cleveland Ohio, and I saw twinkly lights everywhere, and spits of snow turned into feet. And there was music playing everywhere, the melodies were simple and catchy and I could at least hum along after hearing them once. By the second or third time I heard them, I was happy to sing in public and not even care what anyone else thought. People were bustling, but no one was swearing and shaking fists at each other (apparently there were no good sales). And the best part - the absolute best part - was that we were picking out gifts for everyone we cared about. We were thinking about what we loved about each person, and what they would love to be surprised with. And at every chance, we threw change into the buckets.

Truly, I am certain someone could tear that story and that experience into a hundred separate examples of commercialism. But I don't care :) It felt wonderful to watch people smile at each other and say please and thank you...and wish each other the best holiday...and it felt wonderful to me to watch people give to each other...and care for each other in a way I had never seen before.

That's the magic of Christmas for me. And when everyone else grumbles and groans and complains and even gets angry that Christmas decorations come out at Halloween these days, I always get excited that it's time! It's time for people to be like they are supposed to be.

My children have been taught to live like this always. Oh, they are human and have (many, many) moments. But Christmas is a time that we are reminded (at my house) that ... if you haven't been humming, you'd better start. If you have forgotten how to make homemade cookies, you'd better pull out an actual recipe and remember. And, if you have gotten too busy to smile at someone...better slow it down a notch :) And, if you have not felt the joy of giving from your heart, you better remember what it means to be a part of humankind. :)

[Dawn]

I was raised in a family that was long on creativity and short on money. We were not Christians but we were very spiritual and believed in the sacredness of life in all its forms. We hand-made all our Christmas presents for each other. We started making them early, about February each year, so there would be time to complete them. Part of the fun was intently observing everyone on my Christmas list to see or hear about what they might want that I could somehow create. We made sweaters, scarves, building blocks that could be put together into walk-in club houses, tea from wild herbs, special jam from secret summer harvests, gift certificates good for one house cleaning or some other chore that would free up our giftee from something they would like to get out of, oil paintings, table mats and on and on.

We also had a special fire a couple of times just before Christmas where special wax was added to the flames to make them turn colors while we strung popcorn or cranberries for the tree and sang carols.

We hand made all of our own wrapping paper from plain paper bags, or rolls of butcher wrap. When I was little we used potatoes cut into shapes, and dipped in poster paint, to make patterns on the paper. After age 11 I hand painted snow scenes on all the presents I gave out and attached hard to guess poems that contained hints to each package. Once, when I went to the home of a friend I found his parents had my Christmas wrapping paper picture framed and hung in their living room.

We also sang carols around the neighborhood, a tradition that I kept up each year until about 7 years ago when I moved and my daughter left home.

We did all of these things ... and we were never Christian.

It is OK with me that others choose commercialism, avoid learning the truth about political power, and avoid facing how truly awful things are. It is apparently not their path in this life at this moment to do that, otherwise they would. I do not expect others to do what I do these days ( I would be so very deeply unhappy if I did ). I just pay attention to how much joy and love I can create within myself. And I just shower everyone I meet with as much love and joy as possible , 365 days of the year.

I am not sure a big change is coming, despite what I've read and heard. I am sure, however that the way I am going to get to the future I want is by enjoying what is here for me right now.

[Kindling]

But Christmas is a time that we are reminded (at my house) that ... if you haven't been humming, you'd better start. If you have forgotten how to make homemade cookies, you'd better pull out an actual recipe and remember. And, if you have gotten too busy to smile at someone...better slow it down a notch And, if you have not felt the joy of giving from your heart, you better remember what it means to be a part of humankind


I am not sure a big change is coming, despite what I've read and heard. I am sure, however that the way I am going to get to the future I want is by enjoying what is here for me right now.

1inMany and Dawn, thanks, love your posts :-)

Oops, messed up those quotes, but loved what you both said and wanted to let you know.

Mod edit: that's OK.. I fixed the quote boxes for you.... Dawn, mod in training

[Providence]

I haven't 'celebrated' Christmas for about 18 years. About the only thing it means to me is that it's just another day when the library is closed. Admittedly it has been easier for me to avoid that it seems for most folks. I am an only child with no children of my own, my parents aren't that concerned with the whole deal and are kind of the black sheep of my extended family. I went to a couple of family dinners with my previous girlfriend which were nice, but for the sake of argument lets not count them.

The crass commercialization is one aspect I think we can all agree on. I find the societal pressure to rabidly consume and the indoctrination of children into this process utterly disgusting. The other huge aspect of Christmas I find highly problematic is the hypocrisy of the goodwill. People say that it is a time for families to come together, that giving is more important than receiving, peace on earth and goodwill to mankind, and so on. These are all fine and wonderful things to be sure, but what about on the other 364 days of the year?

If you want to give somebody a gift, then just give them a gift. Don't wait for this one day of the year when it feels like a moral obligation. We shouldn't have to be told when we should come together with those we love. As it is, there seems to be so many people who come together at Christmas who don't really want to be together leading to the arguments, the righteously abandoned dinners, the slammed doors, tears and recriminations.

I appreciate that we all are busy people and sometimes live far apart from those we care about and it can be difficult getting to each other but I see this more as a problem in how we organize our society. Trying to fix it with Christmas obligations is like putting a Band-aid on a broken arm.

If folks want to celebrate I have no problem with that at all, I don't feel a Grinch about the whole thing. It just means very little to me and all I ask is that my opting out be respected. In general, though, I would like to see less of Christmas and more of trying to be more decent human beings throughout the rest of the year.

Falalala lala la la

Thank you gdiggs!

I too get disgusted with the
...societal pressure to rabidly consume and the indoctrination of children..., I think that is one of the main "straws that broke the camel's back' for me. Very interesting perspective my friend, thank you for sharing!

[Providence]

Providence, that was absolutely and positively beautiful. I cannot imagine you wishing to pour your heart out more poetically, as it was poetry to me. Since I'm new around here, maybe that sounds weird, but I can't help it.

Just for the sake of different perspectives, maybe you'll appreciate this one ;) I was raised believing Christmas was a terrible, horrible atrocity. We NEVER celebrated it. Not once. Until my parents divorced, that is. My mom married someone who had the "normal" western Christmas background, and Santa came for the first time when I was probably 12. Duh, of course I did not believe there actually was a Santa that just all-of-a-sudden decided to visit my house after 12 years. But, that year my mom took us shopping in downtown Cleveland Ohio, and I saw twinkly lights everywhere, and spits of snow turned into feet. And there was music playing everywhere, the melodies were simple and catchy and I could at least hum along after hearing them once. By the second or third time I heard them, I was happy to sing in public and not even care what anyone else thought. People were bustling, but no one was swearing and shaking fists at each other (apparently there were no good sales). And the best part - the absolute best part - was that we were picking out gifts for everyone we cared about. We were thinking about what we loved about each person, and what they would love to be surprised with. And at every chance, we threw change into the buckets.

Truly, I am certain someone could tear that story and that experience into a hundred separate examples of commercialism. But I don't care :) It felt wonderful to watch people smile at each other and say please and thank you...and wish each other the best holiday...and it felt wonderful to me to watch people give to each other...and care for each other in a way I had never seen before.

That's the magic of Christmas for me. And when everyone else grumbles and groans and complains and even gets angry that Christmas decorations come out at Halloween these days, I always get excited that it's time! It's time for people to be like they are supposed to be.

My children have been taught to live like this always. Oh, they are human and have (many, many) moments. But Christmas is a time that we are reminded (at my house) that ... if you haven't been humming, you'd better start. If you have forgotten how to make homemade cookies, you'd better pull out an actual recipe and remember. And, if you have gotten too busy to smile at someone...better slow it down a notch :) And, if you have not felt the joy of giving from your heart, you better remember what it means to be a part of humankind. :)

Thank you 1inMany!

A wonderful story, I truly enjoyed the stroll through the memories of this time with you, thank you for sharing. I really can identify with your past, as I have always been someone that loved holidays and celebrations. I would decorate the house every year with more and more lights, hang a huge handmade wreath on the side of the house, lighted of course, and expand my lighted artistic expressions of Christmas every year with fanciful new additions in an effort to create my own winter wonderland of sorts.

I hope everyone understands that I am not necessarily trying to eliminate Christmas, but trying to find a way to bring it back to center. I know the commercialism of Christmas has been going on for many years, but I think in the recent past that it has become excessive and has finally overwhelmed the beautiful things that made Christmastime a time of year that everyone enjoyed from the humanity aspect. Yes, there are a lot of people, shoppers especially, who still express their good will during this season, but I see less and less of this as time goes on. And that is my point. You and I have great memories of the past, when Christmas brought out the humanity in us all, but that humanity is quickly being stripped away and the energy redirected into a profit based approach to selling more products. We are better than this, and if we don't take a stand and pull it back to center, we will lose another small piece of our exercise in humanity.

[Providence]

I was raised in a family that was long on creativity and short on money. We were not Christians but we were very spiritual and believed in the sacredness of life in all its forms. We hand-made all our Christmas presents for each other. We started making them early, about February each year, so there would be time to complete them. Part of the fun was intently observing everyone on my Christmas list to see or hear about what they might want that I could somehow create. We made sweaters, scarves, building blocks that could be put together into walk-in club houses, tea from wild herbs, special jam from secret summer harvests, gift certificates good for one house cleaning or some other chore that would free up our giftee from something they would like to get out of, oil paintings, table mats and on and on.

We also had a special fire a couple of times just before Christmas where special wax was added to the flames to make them turn colors while we strung popcorn or cranberries for the tree and sang carols.

We hand made all of our own wrapping paper from plain paper bags, or rolls of butcher wrap. When I was little we used potatoes cut into shapes, and dipped in poster paint, to make patterns on the paper. After age 11 I hand painted snow scenes on all the presents I gave out and attached hard to guess poems that contained hints to each package. Once, when I went to the home of a friend I found his parents had my Christmas wrapping paper picture framed and hung in their living room.

We also sang carols around the neighborhood, a tradition that I kept up each year until about 7 years ago when I moved and my daughter left home.

We did all of these things ... and we were never Christian.

It is OK with me that others choose commercialism, avoid learning the truth about political power, and avoid facing how truly awful things are. It is apparently not their path in this life at this moment to do that, otherwise they would. I do not expect others to do what I do these days ( I would be so very deeply unhappy if I did ). I just pay attention to how much joy and love I can create within myself. And I just shower everyone I meet with as much love and joy as possible , 365 days of the year.

I am not sure a big change is coming, despite what I've read and heard. I am sure, however that the way I am going to get to the future I want is by enjoying what is here for me right now.

Thank you Dawn! Such a wonderful expression of what Christmas was intended to be. I do hope that a change is on the horizon, one that brings humanity back to a base level of love and understanding and away from the infectious elements that now degrade the human potential of the season. Thanks again for sharing your memories!

[1inMany]

Just wanted to leave a note of reassurance, lol, that I did not pick anything up from your post(s) that would indicate you wish Christmas was eliminated. What I personally understood is that you are standing back looking at it from where you are at this moment. I'm glad you enjoyed my little stroll down memory lane. But I know that just because I feel this way doesn't mean anyone else does ;) Just wanted to share my perspective. The way I see it is that when I quit enjoying holidays in general, I'll quit celebrating them or giving them any type of rememberance. There's nothing wrong with walking away from something you quit enjoying. In fact, I suppose that is sort of the point, isn't it? Part of personal growth is discerning and discarding old ways of thinking that no longer fit with who you are. :)

[NeverMind]

People who moan that it's become commercialised are themselves implicitly telling you that they are the ones who see - or appreciate - mostly the outward appearance of Christmas festivities. To each their own, but that is not what Christmas is, or ever was, about. If you carry it inside, no amount of blaring Jingle Bells will put you off, because it simply does not matter.

Accept it for what it is: a time, a date, that reminds us of the role of unconditional love and openness - of their triumph over fear and despair.
That is a truth that abides forever.

People might be a lot happier if instead of watching "Christmas" films for the umpteenth time they's simply open the New Testament and read this:

Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.

Blessed are the gentle, for they shall inherit the earth.

Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.

Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.

Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me.

Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets.




So, regardless of your faith or lack thereof - "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus" - MERRY CHRISTMAS to one and all.

[Providence]

People who moan that it's become commercialised are themselves implicitly telling you that they are the ones who see - or appreciate - mostly the outward appearance of Christmas festivities. To each their own, but that is not what Christmas is, or ever was, about. If you carry it inside, no amount of blaring Jingle Bells will put you off, because it simply does not matter.

Accept it for what it is: a time, a date, that reminds us of the role of unconditional love and openness - of their triumph over fear and despair.
That is a truth that abides forever.

People might be a lot happier if instead of watching "Christmas" films for the umpteenth time they's simply open the New Testament and read this:

Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.

Blessed are the gentle, for they shall inherit the earth.

Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.

Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.

Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me.

Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets.

http://www.lifeofchrist.com/teachings/sermons/mount/default.asp


So, regardless of your faith or lack thereof - "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus" - MERRY CHRISTMAS to one and all.

Thank you NeverMind for your perspective, and you are correct when you say "to each their own".

Christmas is a Christian holiday, a celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ. The giving of gifts symbolizes the gifts of the three wise men and a celebration of Jesus' birth. All of the symbolism we see this time of year, baby Jesus, the manger, Mary and Joseph, the star of Bethlehem, the three wise men, etc. are the bulwarks of the Christian's acceptance and faith in the biblical account of Christ's life. That is undeniable, and yet it is only explicitly accepted as truth by those who hold a truly Christian perspective.

It is much easier to find solutions to the basis and intent of the Christmas holiday when hold exclusive beliefs in the Christian faith. It is much easier to find the silver lining in the cloud. But for those individual like myself, who no longer adheres to the strict biblical perspective, it is not such a simple task.

Peace
Providence

[NeverMind]

Hello, Providence -

clearly I have not expressed myself well. :-)

What I meant to say was precisely that you do not even have to adhere to the Christian faith, or to any faith, as long as you "adhere" to the principles that it expresses, to celebrate today as the reaffirmation of those principles.

I have found that many people, even (or especially) some "atheists", do believe in the value of the principles expressed by Christ.
I am such a person myself. :-)

(And even just historically, the civilisational value of those principles is immense, literally incalculable - witness the words I quoted by Paul - generally not one of my favourite people. But 'll give credit where credit is due. :-)).

There is a mystery in Christ's words - but only as long as one reads them with a rational, world-weary mind.
It is not a mystery for its own sake - it is to be deciphered.
As the Sufis say - among many others - the heart will, infallibly, tell you the solution.
Reading those words is not the worst way to spend one's time.

That's why I'll say, once again: a happy and blessed Christmas to you and to all. :)

[Providence]

Hello, Providence -

clearly I have not expressed myself well. :-)

What I meant to say was precisely that you do not even have to adhere to the Christian faith, or to any faith, as long as you "adhere" to the principles that it expresses, to celebrate today as the reaffirmation of those principles.

I have found that many people, even (or especially) some "atheists", do believe in the value of the principles expressed by Christ.
I am such a person myself. :-)

(And even just historically, the civilisational value of those principles is immense, literally incalculable - witness the words I quoted by Paul - generally not one of my favourite people. But 'll give credit where credit is due. :-)).

There is a mystery in Christ's words - but only as long as one reads them with a rational, world-weary mind.
It is not a mystery for its own sake - it is to be deciphered.
As the Sufis say - among many others - the heart will, infallibly, tell you the solution.
Reading those words is not the worst way to spend one's time.

That's why I'll say, once again: a happy and blessed Christmas to you and to all. :)

A happy and blessed Christmas to you as well! And, I understood what you intended, I really did. B-)

I do believe in the values/principles expressed by Christ, as I do from the Buddha philosophy, and others, as we all know, truth is truth.

It is the 'container' that we create with our religiosity that challenges me personally. A container that boxes in a set of values/truths, and by definition, boxes out other sets of values/truths, which effectively limits and confines the human potential for unfettered love and enlightenment.

Yes, I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one...

[NeverMind]

I do believe in the values/principles expressed by Christ, as I do from the Buddha philosophy, and others, as we all know, truth is truth.

Well, then, that's all matters.
Never mind the "containers". :) People always find a way of tainting everything with their fear.
Pity them.
(And I mean this in the most charitable sense.)

[Bollinger]

For most people, especially the minority cultures who reside in countries foreign to their native roots, Christmas is simply a brief time to forget one's troubles, come together, exchange gifts, bring good cheer, laugh, cry and enjoy the period away from the toils of the year. From that point of view, it far outweighs and transcends all religious and commercial ramifications.

Even for people who choose to label themselves Christians, it is above all, a time to reflect on the year gone, celebrate and give thanks for the year to come. It is a time to revise, revisit and reflect on the highs and lows of the past 12 months. That, strangely enough, helps to refill one's reservoir of hope for the future, perhaps arming us in some small way to face the challenges that are sure to come knocking on our door and maybe even prepare us for the inevitable; should it happen.

All things considered, individually and collectively, the positives that arise from it are far more valuable than any intellectual principle or dogma we may harbour against it purely on the grounds of religion.

So, as a gesture of good will and a Christmas gift from me, I’d like to post a video that surely inspires in all of us, hope for ourselves and humanity as whole.

Promise not to cry.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZ46Ot4_lLo&feature=related

[Providence]

I do believe in the values/principles expressed by Christ, as I do from the Buddha philosophy, and others, as we all know, truth is truth.

Well, then, that's all matters.
Never mind the "containers". :) People always find a way of tainting everything with their fear.
Pity them.
(And I mean this in the most charitable sense.)

I respect your viewpoint, but I will just end this conversation with this one short comment, that we can't just ignore the containers. IMHO

[Providence]

For most people, especially the minority cultures who reside in countries foreign to their native roots, Christmas is simply a brief time to forget one's troubles, come together, exchange gifts, bring good cheer, laugh, cry and enjoy the period away from the toils of the year. From that point of view, it far outweighs and transcends all religious and commercial ramifications.

Even for people who choose to label themselves Christians, it is above all, a time to reflect on the year gone, celebrate and give thanks for the year to come. It is a time to revise, revisit and reflect on the highs and lows of the past 12 months. That, strangely enough, helps to refill one's reservoir of hope for the future, perhaps arming us in some small way to face the challenges that are sure to come knocking on our door and maybe even prepare us for the inevitable; should it happen.

All things considered, individually and collectively, the positives that arise from it are far more valuable than any intellectual principle or dogma we may harbour against it purely on the grounds of religion.

So, as a gesture of good will and a Christmas gift from me, I’d like to post a video that surely inspires in all of us, hope for ourselves and humanity as whole.

Promise not to cry.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZ46Ot4_lLo&feature=related

Thank you Bollinger, counting my blessings as I watch.

I do want to say something though, this time of year is a very stressful and negative time for many. An increase in suicides, depression, a feeling of discontentment, financial and family pressures, etc, and I'm not trying to put a damper on the season, just trying to bring more of a balance to the sometimes idealistic perception of the Christmas season of 'peace and joy'.

As powerful as the positive aspects are, there are just as equally powerful negative aspects of the Christmas season that I don't think we address, unless we are one of those so affected. For many it is not a time of forgetting your troubles, good cheer, and laughter, it is a time of sorry, increased troubles, and reflections of the past that brings heartache, remorse, regret.

Just trying to bring more of a truly balanced viewpoint. The perceived peace and joy of this time of year has a very real reciprocal element. We embrace the positives in wonderful platitudes of love, but fail to recognize and address the negatives surrounding the structure of our sacred Christmas season. Maybe if all the structural elements of Christmas were to fall to the ground, we could exercise peace and love to all equally. And that would be a better world.

[Bollinger]

Thank you Bollinger, counting my blessings as I watch.

I do want to say something though, this time of year is a very stressful and negative time for many. An increase in suicides, depression, a feeling of discontentment, financial and family pressures, etc, and I'm not trying to put a damper on the season, just trying to bring more of a balance to the sometimes idealistic perception of the Christmas season of 'peace and joy'.

As powerful as the positive aspects are, there are just as equally powerful negative aspects of the Christmas season that I don't think we address, unless we are one of those so affected. For many it is not a time of forgetting your troubles, good cheer, and laughter, it is a time of sorry, increased troubles, and reflections of the past that brings heartache, remorse, regret.

Just trying to bring more of a truly balanced viewpoint. The perceived peace and joy of this time of year has a very real reciprocal element. We embrace the positives in wonderful platitudes of love, but fail to recognize and address the negatives surrounding the structure of our sacred Christmas season. Maybe if all the structural elements of Christmas were to fall to the ground, we could exercise peace and love to all equally. And that would be a better world.

Providence,

That people do unusual things on unusual days is not in dispute. There are those who lead very hard lives: those who are alone, who are lost, destitute, sick or going through a rough patch. Suicide to them is a permanent pain killer which no doubt is probably entertained daily but I take your point. While everyone else is enjoying their gifts and get-togethers, there are those that peer through the window, hearing the muffled sound of joy, and think this is the time to end it all.

Our hearts will always feel heavy when we consider those less fortunate than ourselves, of course it will, it is the hallmark of being human. I have argued with myself on this many times and there is no real solution. There is a choice, of sorts. We can be very dogmatic and refuse all enjoyment and fun while there is even one person who suffers more than we do OR we can embrace the world as it is, look upon it with a heavy heart and help it in any way we can, if we can. But we know, with absolute certainty, that come tomorrow we will still have two billion men, women and children living beneath the poverty line. This will remain whichever choice we make. Is it not therefore, better to snatch a fleeting moment of collective joy for those who can (such as at Christmas and other holidays) than to abstain totally from what little enjoyment there is on offer in this wretched world of ours?

[Providence]

Peace Bollinger,
Alas, we must agree, and yet disagree, but just for the record, no offense intended, and none taken from my perspective. Thank you for sharing your thoughts!

Respectfully!
Providence