Jesus Christ May Not Have Died on Cross

[Jonathon]

Endless implications here. Anyone want to give it a shot?

"No Evidence in Ancient Sources Backs Up Defining Symbol of Christianity, Scholar Says

For 2,000 years the crucifix has been a potent symbol of both Jesus Christ's death and Christianity. Now one Swedish theologian says that despite the crucifix's proliferation in art and literature, there is scant evidence in the Bible or other ancient sources to indicate that Christ was killed on a cross.

"There is no distinct punishment called 'crucifixion,' no distinct punishment device called a 'crucifix' anywhere mentioned in any of the ancient texts including the Gospels," he told ABCNews.com.

Samuelsson devoutly believes the story of Jesus' death and resurrection, but says for generations people have misinterpreted and mistranslated the Greek word "stauros" to mean crucifix, when really the term just means a suspension device, which might have been anything such as a "pole or a tree trunk." The earliest versions of the New Testament were written in Greek.

"If you chose to just read the text and ignore the art and theology, there is quite a small amount of information about the crucifixion. Jesus, the Bible says, carried something called a stauros out to Calvary. Everyone thought it meant cross, but it does not only mean cross. We cannot say every instance of this noun, stauros refers to a cross," Samuelsson said.

Suspension devices, basically tall polls or pikes, were routinely used in the ancient world, by the Romans and their contemporaries, both as execution devices and for displaying the bodies of executed criminals and enemies as a public warning.

Part of what tipped Samuelson off to the apparent mistranslation, were routine references to things like fruits and dead animals being "crucified" in ancient texts, when translating the word as "suspended" makes more sense. "

CONTINUED HERE (http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/jesus-christ-died-cross-scholar/story?id=11066130)

[shiva777]

http://www.magickriver.net/3-Christs.htm

[Jonathon]

............
:twitch:

I recall ADs material said that (one of them) WAS crucified. Her material doesn't cover this.

[truthseekerdan]

Jonathon, may I suggest that you read the book Jesus and the Essenes (http://books.google.com/books?id=ouQG_K9UOHkC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Keepers+of+the+Garden&source=gbs_similarbooks_s&cad=1#v=onepage&q=Keepers%20of%20the%20Garden&f=false) by Dolores Cannon (http://www.ozarkmt.com/!authorBios.php?ag=40) to find out some truths about the life of Jesus (Yeshua).

Below is a summary of what you'll find in the book:

This extraordinary document represents a new form of historical research, and straightens out many open questions and misinterpretations.
It takes the form of direct dialogues between a modern researcher and a member of the Qumran Essene community.
Alive around the time of Christ, this community has become the focus of ideas about the connection of Jesus' teachings to earlier traditions.

This book gives a full description of the nature and purpose of the community, and the birth and upbringing of Jesus and John the Baptist.
Also, it gives Essene renderings of Key Old Testament stories, concerning Moses, Ezekiel, Daniel and others, plus startling insights into ancient history.
This information is candid and for real, even about the Dead Sea Scrolls, and many Biblical images and statements are corrected and added to.

Love to you,

Dan

[tone3jaguar]

The cross is a modified zodiac. Jesus is a symbolic reference to astrological references. The bible was written by people that never met "Jesus" and where not alive until after people had seen the last of "him". So for thousands of years people have studied a book that was written on hearsay and essentially channeled material from god. That is what a saint is. A Christian channeler of god. It is all mythology folks, get over it already.

[Jonathon]

Thanks Dan for the book suggestion - I will check it out. Unfortunately my reading list is growing much faster than my ability to read!

Tone - thanks for checking in and participating. Yes the zodiac and of course given birth date are definite 'additions'. However, Jesus (choose the name you wish) did walk this earth and despite the obvious distortions, there are still some real gems in the bible. In parts, a symbolic, multicontextual masterpiece.

[truthseekerdan]

Jesus is a symbolic reference to astrological references.

I beg to differ Tone3jaguar, but this is just your wishful thinking. Please check out the book recommended.

Love and peace,

Dan

[RedeZra]

So for thousands of years people have studied a book that was written on hearsay and essentially channeled material from god. That is what a saint is. A Christian channeler of god. It is all mythology folks, get over it already.


how many ET again around the earth

lol try to dowse the Book before you dis it

[truthseekerdan]

We were all created at the same moment and are all children of
God in this sense. When we came to earth to experience life, we
became entrapped in the physical. We forgot from whence we
came. At least we forgot on the conscious level. Deep inside a
spark still remembered and longed to return 'home', to the loving
Father who had made us. He was waiting patiently, because he
knows no such thing as time; waiting for his children to uncover
once again their true potential and destiny.

But humanity enjoyed life and became absorbed in the ways of
the world, making mistake after mistake, further entrenching itself
through the law of karma. Was there any way out? The more lives
humans lived the more karma they created for themselves.
We could not return to God until we are once again perfect, having
atoned for all the wrongs we have done our fellow man.

It seems hopeless. For each mistake we repaid we made two
more. We are on a wheel going round and round and getting
nowhere, because we do not understand what we have to do to get
off. How could humanity climb upward if it is constantly going
round in circles? This was what Jesus came to 'save' humanity
from. Humanity needed an example, someone to show him the
'Way'. Humankind had gotten itself into the mess it was in
through the use of free will. God did not punish, he loved his
children too much for that. He allowed them to make their own
mistakes and hopefully they would eventually learn from them and
see 'the light' and find the pathway to take them 'home'.
Since God will not interfere, (he can only help and guide) he decided
to send someone to be an example.

I believe Jesus or Yeshua was a master of the tenth level. This
means that after countless numbers of lives filled with human
frailties, he had at last attained perfection and had returned to the
side of God from whence he had come. Only this type of entity
could possibly resist being sucked down into the murk and mire of
human existence. Even for a master it was dangerous, for the lure
of the flesh is very tempting, and he might forget his purpose in
coming.

It was important that he come, as we all must come into a
human, physical body and be exposed to all the trials man must
face. He had to show that he could rise above it. If he could do it,
humankind could also. He had to be taught all the knowledge of
the world, so he could understand the time he lived in. He had to
be trained in the complete use of the mind, in order to show its
marvellous capabilities. To show that a human was not merely an
animal body, but a supreme spiritual creation.

He never claimed to perform miracles, but told people they
could also do these things, and things even more wonderful. He
had to learn meditation so he could remain close to the source from
which he came. In this way he could keep his goal ever in sight and
not be swayed from it. His goal was to show humanity through his
example how they should live. That the greatest lesson to be
learned was to love their fellow creatures on earth.

If love was present, no further negative karma could be created.
If love was present, there would be no more wars and suffering.
Humanity could get off the wheel of karma and begin to progress
up the ladder again. Jesus was the perfect example of what each
person had within them and what they were capable of attaining.
But still they didn't understand. His perfection frightened and confused
them. They feared him because he was different, and their only
solution was to kill him.


Excerpt from the book Jesus and the Essenes (http://books.google.com/books?id=ouQG_K9UOHkC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Keepers+of+the+Garden&source=gbs_similarbooks_s&cad=1#v=onepage&q=Keepers%20of%20the%20Garden&f=false) by Dolores Cannon. (http://www.ozarkmt.com/!authorBios.php?ag=40)

[shiva777]

JESUS - Exposing the Lie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD40xi9KdqE

The "romance" Jesus Christ - ZEITGEIST (part 4 of 4)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwqwOfzxzG0


Christian Myth Jesus pagan solar deity god's sun Zeitgeist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqP5KdYKFB0

[shiva777]

yes,the Jesus story and MESSAGE was heavily twisted,manipulated and distorted for political and spiritual control

get some clues
\
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1FdtpH8lSI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5H6kGPHIDYg&feature=related

watch the other videos on those pages and see for yourself how OBVIOUSLY twisted his story has been

[Snowbird]

Between my recent readings of Ashayana Deane, Ralph Ellis and Dolores Cannon's interpretations and studies of Jesus and more importantly, St. Paul, I now have a completely different understanding of who and what Jesus the Christ was then and is now.

I do believe that he lived, but in what form and for what purpose, is a whole other study. But as Ralph Ellis brings out repeatedly in his works, it was actually St. Paul who formed Jesus into the persona known by tens of millions today. This is a more than fascinating study.

[Operator]

There is an interesting documentary/film on this subject: Jesus In India (http://www.jesus-in-india-the-movie.com/)

You can either try to find the DVD or locate a torrent ... I think this guy sincerely wants to find the truth which makes his hunt for it authentic.

[Celine]

Jesus was a being who knew EXCACTLY who he was...and wanted all of us to know exactly who we are..

People listened...people are still listening..

but are they hearing?

[greybeard]

Jesus was a being who knew EXCACTLY who he was...and wanted all of us to know exactly who we are..

People listened...people are still listening..

but are they hearing?

Celine I take my hat off to you.
In just a few words you have said all that needs to be said.

Love Chris

[RedeZra]

Jesus, the Bible says, carried something called a stauros out to Calvary. Everyone thought it meant cross, but it does not only mean cross. We cannot say every instance of this noun, stauros refers to a cross," Samuelsson said.

Suspension devices, basically tall polls or pikes, were routinely used in the ancient world, by the Romans and their contemporaries, both as execution devices and for displaying the bodies of executed criminals and enemies as a public warning.



crucifixion was an established excruciating Roman method of execution

abolished by Emperor Constantine I in 337 out of veneration for Jesus Christ


the Greek word stauros refers to a wooden stake and not nessecarily a cross

but then again crucifixion was the standard Roman method of execution


most likely the Greek word stauros like the Latin word crucifixio

corresponds to several forms of execution that was in practise around and about the ancient world

from impaling on a stake to affixing to a tree to an upright pole

to a combination of an upright stake and a crossbeam

shaped like a T as the St Anthony cross or the old familiar Latin cross


Jesus most likely carried just the crossbeam which would be assembled to the waiting wooden plank at Calvary which might have been suspended on a standard

[tone3jaguar]

I beg to differ Tone3jaguar, but this is just your wishful thinking. Please check out the book recommended.

Love and peace,

Dan

Dogma is Dogma regardless of the efficacy of the original source of it. All that matters is right now, not 2000 years ago.

[RedeZra]

Dogma is Dogma regardless of the efficacy of the original source of it. All that matters is right now, not 2000 years ago.



you say that millions of ET are around the earth and that Jesus is a symbol

I say you got it both wrong

[Celine]

i said, she said, we said they said....


does this really get you somewhere??

Jesus WAS LOVE

you ARE love.

create love everywhere, in everything that you do.

This is our mandate

[RedeZra]

i said, she said, we said they said....


does this really get you somewhere??

Jesus WAS LOVE

you ARE love.

create love everywhere, in everything that you do.

This is our mandate



you make it sound so cozy cotton celine

don't you feel a duty to speak up when you see wrong

[Celine]

Who says it is wrong?

[kriya]

Dogma is Dogma regardless of the efficacy of the original source of it. All that matters is right now, not 2000 years ago.

The original teachings of Jesus are not Dogma, and are more relevant today then ever before. We do not live in peace on this planet, love our neighbour or know God.

Love,

Kriya

[RedeZra]

Who says it is wrong?

I

can I prove it to you - no

so does that make it not wrong - no


whether or not Jesus was a historical figure is either right or wrong


pick and choose - but if you choose wrong it doesn't make it right

[Celine]

Truisms often are mistaken as fact

Jesus does not want anyone to choose..

He just wants you to know who you truly are.

you are LOVE

[tone3jaguar]

you say that millions of ET are around the earth and that Jesus is a symbol

I say you got it both wrong

Whatever, prove that the past is more relevant than right now and I will consider focusing on it.

[Celine]

Past repeats itself...lessons to be learned for the futur sometimes lay in the past

[Sarahmay]

I

can I prove it to you - no

so does that make it not wrong - no


whether or not Jesus was a historical figure is either right or wrong


pick and choose - but if you choose wrong it doesn't make it right

Ah, you're a Christian. That certainly puts your posts, on this and other threads, into perspective...

[RedeZra]

Ah, you're a Christian. That certainly puts your posts, on this and other threads, into perspective...

yes I confess to Christ - if that makes me a Christian so be it

do I agree with whatever the Church preach and propose - no not at all

[blue777]

Truisms often are mistaken as fact

Jesus does not want anyone to choose..

He just wants you to know who you truly are.

you are LOVE

I totally agree, if you put the word Love for the name Jesus it all works out well. We also all have our personal crosses to bare, our own sufferings
love blue

[RedeZra]

Whatever, prove that the past is more relevant than right now and I will consider focusing on it.

present is a result of the past

so history sheds a light on why and where we are at the present moment


" He who cannot draw on 3000 years is living hand-to-mouth " - Goethe


one cannot understand oneself nor the world by ignoring the past

[RedeZra]

Truisms often are mistaken as fact

Jesus does not want anyone to choose..

He just wants you to know who you truly are.

you are LOVE


you are not only love but light truth and righteousness

you can't have one without the others

[greybeard]

you are not only love but light truth and righteousness

you can't have one without the others

My two best friends --- Love prevails then right action just happens. Why worry?
God has no human qualities, attributes and just radiates pure unconditional love just as the sun shines equally on all.
The difficulty with forum communication is we forget that as much as 80% of communication is non-verbal.
I think you are both correct in the essence of what you say only minor difference of expression.
love and respect to the two of you and between the pair of you ---- or else I come and knock your heads together --- Laughing uproariously.
Chris

[RedeZra]

My two best friends --- Love prevails then right action just happens.

I think you are both correct in the essence of what you say only minor difference of expression.
love and respect to the two of you and between the pair of you ---- or else I come and knock your heads together --- Laughing uproariously.
Chris


hehe that's pretty funny Chris

knocking our heads together

that sure would put an end to any discussions hehe


psssst Im just upping my post count lol

[HORIZONS]

Simply put - the story of the cross is "out of death emerges life" - for in Adam (lower nature) all die, but in Christ (spiritual consciousness) all shall be made alive. The death of Jesus is the death of the lower human nature, the resurrection of Christ is the raising of the Spiritual nature we have in Infinite Consciousness. :)

[Lost Soul]

Unfortunately there are a lot of things that the Church has hidden about Jesus.

[Teakai]

I was reading Jordan Maxwell's website yesterday. He says that with crucifixion death usually occurred about the 4th day. No one was allowed to be on the crosses on a Saturday as it was a holy day. Jesus was crucified on a Friday and so was brought down at sunset that night.

He says that Jesus then went to India and Mary went to a convent somewhere. And that the holy grail isn't a cup that held the blood of Jesus, but a person - it's in reference to a bloodline.

Can't remember where I heard this bit, but apparently Lady Di was of Jesus' bloodline (this may have been from William Coopers talks) - this is really only crazy unbelievable if you happen to believe the church version of Jesus, rather than the historical version.

[lightseeker]

This is an intersting thread I posted today addressed to Bill Ryan regarding the history/dealth of Jesus. My earlier post on this thread suggested that Bill might want to read a very good book written by Dr. Barbara Thiering one of the most pre- eminent scollars of the dead sea scrolls. Her book was published under the tile of "jesus & the riddle of the dead see scrolls", released in 1992 through Doubleday Canada Limited, 105 Bond Street, Toronto, Ontario M5B 1Y3. According to the translations of the scrolls, Jesus did marry Mary Magdeline. They had a daughter and two sons. Jesus was crucified on the cross in the Essene community of Qumran which was considered the new jerusalem. Jesus was a member of this community. Although crucified according to the texts, he did not die; was removed from the cross/purged of the poison given him to hasten his death and recoverded. He continued to teach his message and was last recorded as being in Greece at the age of 70 years old. This book was made into a documentary movie by Dr.Thiering and released in Australia in 1992. Needless to say, it was considered very provacative. The Truth often is!! For those who are in search of the truth of who Jesus really was, this book is well worth reading, It is a scholarly work, well researched. It depicts the time of Jesus in great detail.

[Snowbird]

I have read several of Dr. Thiering's books and yes they are provocative to those whose system of believe is traditional.

But even when considering what Jesus did or did not do or had done to him or did not have done to him, there is and was an aspect of Jesus the Christ that people have a tendency to overlook. He is and was a highly advanced being of light. He came to Earth 2000 years ago to perform a mission. The people of that time period had no understanding of who he is/was and therefore did not have a method of comprehending his message. They also would never have the ability to comprehend then, what some people believe to be the truth about Jesus in current times.

Based upon controversial channellings of Sananda/Jesus, it has been stated that Jesus then, as now, possessed supernatural abilities such as bilocation...which we know today to be a real ability. However, we also know of people today to have bilocated to the fourth location and beyond. In other words, one person can be in 4, 5, or 6 locations at the same time. It has been said that Jesus had this ability 2000 years ago. It is also said that he could regulate his energy in each body simultaneously and had the ability to remove his physical body by disappearing it by thought alone.
This is the reason that Ashianna Deane (sp?) states that there were three Jesuses. There may have been more...of the same person...Christ Jesus.

[TargeT]

This is an intersting thread I posted today addressed to Bill Ryan regarding the history/dealth of Jesus. My earlier post on this thread suggested that Bill might want to read a very good book written by Dr. Barbara Thiering one of the most pre- eminent scollars of the dead sea scrolls. Her book was published under the tile of "jesus & the riddle of the dead see scrolls", released in 1992 through Doubleday Canada Limited, 105 Bond Street, Toronto, Ontario M5B 1Y3. According to the translations of the scrolls, Jesus did marry Mary Magdeline. They had a daughter and two sons. Jesus was crucified on the cross in the Essene community of Qumran which was considered the new jerusalem. Jesus was a member of this community. Although crucified according to the texts, he did not die; was removed from the cross/purged of the poison given him to hasten his death and recoverded. He continued to teach his message and was last recorded as being in Greece at the age of 70 years old. This book was made into a documentary movie by Dr.Thiering and released in Australia in 1992. Needless to say, it was considered very provacative. The Truth often is!! For those who are in search of the truth of who Jesus really was, this book is well worth reading, It is a scholarly work, well researched. It depicts the time of Jesus in great detail.

what if jesus was really a hallucinogenic mushroom?

http://www.gnosticmedia.com/the-pharmacratic-inquisition/

I loved this documentary!!!! I'm not saying its "the" answer, but anythign that shifts your perspective and lets you view a situatoin from a different angle is highly worthy :)

I really enjoyed this & so have a few other people (so i know I'm not just crazy).


Grammar: Logic : Rhetoric..

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Christ

sure sounds like a title to me.. one that any of us can hold... I'll be TargeT Christ eventually :)

[freebird111777]

I agree 100 %! Thanks for the post!

[freebird111777]

Sorry about the last post! I do NOT 100 % agree with this post lol...I was typing on the wrong thread, my bad! Anyways, I do believe Jesus lived and died for humanity...

[Warlock]

Funny.
You could have just asked one of Jehovah's Witnesses.
That Christ did not die on a cross has been in their teaching for about 100 years.

Warlock

[RunningDeer]

Jonathon, may I suggest that you read the book Jesus and the Essenes (http://books.google.com/books?id=ouQG_K9UOHkC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Keepers+of+the+Garden&source=gbs_similarbooks_s&cad=1#v=onepage&q=Keepers%20of%20the%20Garden&f=false) by Dolores Cannon (http://www.ozarkmt.com/!authorBios.php?ag=40) to find out some truths about the life of Jesus (Yeshua).

Below is a summary of what you'll find in the book:

This extraordinary document represents a new form of historical research, and straightens out many open questions and misinterpretations.
It takes the form of direct dialogues between a modern researcher and a member of the Qumran Essene community.
Alive around the time of Christ, this community has become the focus of ideas about the connection of Jesus' teachings to earlier traditions.

This book gives a full description of the nature and purpose of the community, and the birth and upbringing of Jesus and John the Baptist.
Also, it gives Essene renderings of Key Old Testament stories, concerning Moses, Ezekiel, Daniel and others, plus startling insights into ancient history.
This information is candid and for real, even about the Dead Sea Scrolls, and many Biblical images and statements are corrected and added to.

Love to you,

Dan

Thanks, truthseekerdan. I just discovered this author about a month ago and have already downloaded this and several of her other ebooks. Makes me want move it up my list of reading material. Peace, WhiteCrowBlackDeer

[FutureHumanDestiny]

if it weren't for catholic priests hiding the popal vu, there might not be evidence that south americans had a written language.

much of our collective human history has been obliterated, including evidence of significant religious leaders. Quetzalcoatl, Deganawidah, Jesus and other spiritual and religious leaders have had their stories suppressed for untold centuries or longer.

there is no reason to rely only on obvious evidence; many of the most important books were burned long ago.

just my 2c.

[eileenrose]

I've been looking at the 'jesus' issue pretty much my entire existence....or at least from the earliest recollections of my life, I've been told about him. As I attended church and was forced to 'accept' him...I naturally rebelled when I turned old enough to get away (from having to visit a 'church' to hear his 'words' of wisdom).

I don't know if he even was real. No one does (the evidence is missing...either way....it has been thoroughly buried.....and hard to say who is right....any longer).

So what is important?

Take no thought of tomorrow, let tomorrow take thought of itself (paraphrasing).

Important words. So 18 years of religious training....a waste.
Five minutes with Paul Lowe (who uses this phrase in his teachings...and lives by it) and I got it.

Can't go back in time and wouldn't want to (to prove or disprove his existence).

Still always comes back to, 'am I present with what is'....and leave it at that.

[TargeT]

Sorry about the last post! I do NOT 100 % agree with this post lol...I was typing on the wrong thread, my bad! Anyways, I do believe Jesus lived and died for humanity...

This is the best shield to hide behind.. if you already believe or "know" you will never question and explore the topic..

I implore you to consider this concept alone, it doesn't have to be about your chosen religion.. it apples to E V E R Y thing

[gripreaper]

The story has always been written by the victors, and rewritten to support their agendas. For millennium, the gnostics have been hunted down and killed, their teachings destroyed, and their prophets murdered.

But the truth cannot be snuffed out. The supernatural powers known as the "Siddhis" such as claireaudience, clairesentience, clairevoyance, plus bilocation, remote viewing and instant manifestation are inherent in all of us.

Yeshua demonstrated these abilities and seeded the energies into the planetary grid, and yes, he was the masculine counterpart of the divine union with Mary the Magdalene. Both were raised in the Essene communities of Qumran and Mount Carmel, one of the few communities which still retained the gnostic teachings from Atlantis.

A very beautiful, encoded and transformative read on the true story as told by Anna, Yeshua's grandmother I found absolutely riveting and it resonated to my core as one of the top books I've ever read. the book is entitled "Anna, Grandmother of Jesus" by Claire Heartsong.

[modwiz]

The Shroud of Turin wrapped a man who had been crucified, the wounds of the wrists and ankles identify that. Another thing very clear about the Shroud is that it wrapped a man not dead. It has quite a bit of blood on it that seeped out of wounds still bleeding. A person dead for even a short time will have had the blood congealed and no cardiac action. So, whoever was wrapped in the Shroud had been crucified, but removed and wrapped alive. When The Magdalene went to hug Jesus, according to John, he told her no. Whipped and bruised, pierced and probably sunburned, (she thought he was the gardener at first) any pressure on his body would have been 'uncomfortable'. Along with other extra biblical sources identifying his going East after his crucifixion, I am comfortable with a crucified but not executed, Jesus.

[modwiz]

Duplicate post removed.

[Mu2143]

I see people have missed a interview where Bob Dean talks about it, but it got removed from youtube. Yes he died on the cross

[Mu2143]

It was a interview from 2011
http://www.cmn.tv/

[Lettherebelight]

I have heard Jesus travelled widely during his teens and twenties, to the west as far as England and to the east as far as India. There is some evidence to support this from both directions.

When one thinks about it, it certainly seems probable that this is what happened. One's teens and twenties are some of our most active years in life.

[markpierre]

I'm trying to decide if any of the possibilities suggested regarding what actually happened, or even if he existed as a personality at all, means anything to me.

Ummmmm....hmmmm.....ummmmm....hmmmm....nope.

What I do know, is the idea that a God would demand a sacrifice from himself and hold it as an albatross over the heads of an already psychologically very damaged world, makes no sense whatever.
I need things to make sense.

It's interesting, this debate can publicly go on and on and on and never reach a conclusion, because it can't. I guess one can satisfy oneself, which will never be certain.

But what you'll never hear discussed (especially in Christian forums) is what he (or his ghost-Avatar) taught, which was an instruction on how to wake up. Is that relevant?

[Lettherebelight]

If he did travel and study in India, it is very possible he learned the yoga technique of slowing the breathing and heart rate down to practically nothing, giving the impression that one has left the body, but is in reality still present,

[Adaiahsshadow]

As I have researched many topics in many lost text and documents some pertaining to this topic, the insight I have on this topic is one story I found on it stating that Jesus was forced to carry his cross to the top of the mountain, however near the top he stumbled and fell and the cross broke. As a replacement the Romans chose to crucify him to a nearby tree. Ironic considering he is sometimes refered to as the tree of life. Just something to think upon.

Namaste.

[greybeard]

Jesus in India--- beyond belief documentary.

This has been posted before but well worth viewing.

Chris




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNRLKDLJnX0

[TargeT]

I have heard Jesus travelled widely during his teens and twenties, to the west as far as England and to the east as far as India. There is some evidence to support this from both directions.

When one thinks about it, it certainly seems probable that this is what happened. One's teens and twenties are some of our most active years in life.

Jesus bounced at age 13, Why? he was most liekly the son of Julius Cesar & Cleopatra, but when Cesar was killed he was no longer in line for the thrown as another son was chosen above him.. he vowed to come back and conquer the roman empire through "means other than military might". he left for 17 years, came back with a plan, got cruisified, taken live to a cave and emerged later (some people were tipped off to witnes this of course) the story came out.. a few "miracles" performed (he was Pharo blood after all... & held knowledge that was occulted from the rest of the world at the time...)

and look at his success! the Vatican... the power it wields...

Got that stuff from a well presented documentary (that was 5 hours long...) don't recall the title however... interesting stuff.. lots of good corroborating evidence

[kreagle]

What YOU do with your FAITH is UP TO YOU!!!

The Scriptures tell us that God is no respecter of persons,....meaning that He treats us all as "equals" and we are all given the opportunity to either serve Him or we can certainly choose to not believe Him and go our own separate ways. As our Creator, whether one chooses to believe this or not, He has imparted to "everyone" the measure of faith.


Romans 12:3
King James Version (KJV)

3For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

One might ponder upon this by asking,...."How much is a measure?" Once again, as our Creator, He has given us "enough to take us to the next level", if you want to go there! I've heard "many" say or think out loud,...."Well it, (my measure), is sure a "small amount",.....and they just might be right!

A little bit of faith goes a long way--so we learn here, where Jesus explains that even a tiny scrap of true faith in God makes the impossible possible.

Luke 17:6
And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.

As stated earlier,....What YOU do with your FAITH is UP TO YOU!!!

You can either activate it in your life, and enjoy the "fruits that it yields",.......or.......you can choose to allow it to lay "dormant" in your life and totally missing out on the beautiful truth of God's Word intended for our lives.

Yes,.....Jesus Christ DID DIE on the Cross,.......

AND MORE IMPORTANTLY,.....HE ROSE AGAIN!!!

[TargeT]

AND MORE IMPORTANTLY,.....HE ROSE AGAIN!!!

I find the story I alluded to to be MUCH MUCH more plausible and corroborative of the blood line inbreeding we can PROVE is going on in certain family lines to this date...

[panopticon]

G'day All,

First, there may have been an historical 'Jesus' but there is no evidence outside of the Christian 'New Testament' that this was the case (excluding an oft quoted, yet highly dubious mention in Josephus that many scholars view was added some three hundred years later, and the Gnostic texts from the Nag Hammadi Library (http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl.html) that date from various later periods though may be copies of works [the "Gospel of Thomas (http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl_thomas.htm)" in particular] that predate the gospels).

I have posted about this in numerous threads but will focus on just a few points here.


There is no evidence that Nazareth was populated at the time associated with the historical Jesus' birth. There is no archaeological evidence that it was populated from 0 CE to 70 CE (the earliest date most of the gospels are generally thought to have been written). There are no historical records that it was populated at this time either. Josephus was meticulous in his records of the period and Nazareth is not mentioned by him (though many towns in that proximity are) nor by any of his contemporaries.
The similarities between "Jesus" and other mytho-historical figures (such as Osiris, Horus, Romulus, Hercules, Mithra) is hard to ignore. These similarities create a problem in that the people of the period in question were used to "bigger than life" heroes and anything other than that would have been largely ignored. This is particularly true of the "Gentile" converts who expected the Messiah to appear at any second (much as many fundamentalists do now).

By looking at the similarities of numerous 'mythic heroes (http://homepage.mac.com/lpetrich/www/writings/Mythic_Hero.html)' it is, at the very least, possible to say that "Jesus" may have been a mythic construct designed to provide a focal point for a post circa-70 CE apocalyptic/messianic movement (following the sacking of Jerusalem and destruction of the temple (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jerusalem_(70)) by the Romans in response to the failed Jewish revolt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Jewish-Roman_War)). This "movement" was later adapted into a powerful tool to control and organise people using a very successful decentralised "grass-root" organisation approach via so-called "town meetings" (usually small gatherings in members houses). This control was later extended when Constantine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_the_Great) transformed the Roman Empire (in the early Fourth Century CE) from a polytheist society into a monotheist one. This had the effect of centralising power and control, in the hands of the few. This, as everyone here would know, is the origin of the Roman Catholic Church. One of the most powerful organisations of the last 1600 years!

Here's a couple of short videos for those interested in the similarities mentioned between Jesus, Horus, Mithras and Osiris:

8U1Grl4HSRU
xH66MsrmE50
My personal feeling is that there may have been a bloke called Jesus (mostly due to the Nag Hammadi texts) but the myths that were created by the church (as a means of gaining power and control) have so distorted anything that was said or done that it's impossible to know for sure.
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

Further Reading (for those who give a damn):
http://www.truthbeknown.com/josephus.htm
http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/1stC_Hist.htm
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa.htm
http://www.thenazareneway.com/nazarene_or_nazareth.htm
http://www.nazarethmyth.info/
http://www.nazoreans.com/nazareth.html
http://www.livius.org/ja-jn/jewish_wars/jwar04.html
http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/price_20_1.htm
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/robert_price/fiction.html

[Peace of Mind]

It’s hard to believe in the bible because it’s been revise/tamper with many times. Plus the interpretations can be very vague and translated to have more than one meaning. I was told Jesus lived pass 100 and when he died his body was placed on top of the pyramid in Egypt. It a pretty deep story…unlike what’s mentioned in the mainstream scripture. He also had a few kids.
With that said, I do think the bible has a bevy of positive info for those seeking a life filled with positivity…I just can’t go along with the disempowering pretense as far as man is concern.

Some say he's real, some say he's a myth. Will we ever know? Many religions believe he existed and displayed extraordinary powers. Powers we all have but can only be used when acting in a positive, caring and responsible manner. They do say Jesus is in all of us.... but, how many of us walk the walk like he did? Unless we do there will be no empowerment or a display of individual might. They also say there's a second coming....well the second coming is here now... and it is US.

Peace

[Playdo of Ataraxas]

According to what resonates best with me personally, using my own discernment, the Aquarian Gospel and the Law Of One are the best sources of information regarding the truth of Jehoshua.

The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ. http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/agjc/#contents

It does give detailed accounts on his travels from Egypt to Orissa and across much of the Orient.

Also, the Law Of One is very informative regarding matters of Christ, to be found at www.lawofone.info

Here is the link to the Law Of One search results when you enter the "Jesus"
http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?search_string=Jesus+&search_type=any&ss=1

I will paste two of the most poignant excerpts, in my opinion:

"17.19 Questioner: How did Jesus learn this during his incarnation?
Ra: I am Ra. This entity learned the ability by a natural kind of remembering at a very young age. Unfortunately, this entity first discovered his ability to penetrate intelligent infinity by becoming the distortion you call “angry” at a playmate. This entity was touched by the entity known as Jesus and was fatally wounded.

Thus the one known as Jesus became aware that there dwelt in him a terrible potential. This entity determined to discover how to use this energy for the good, not for the negative. This entity was extremely positively polarized and remembered more than most Wanderers do."

"17.20 Questioner: How did this aggressive action against a playmate affect Jesus in his spiritual growth? Where did he go after his physical death?
Ra: I am Ra. The entity you call Jesus was galvanized by this experience and began a lifetime of seeking and searching. This entity studied first day and night in its own religious constructs which you call Judaism and was learned enough to be a rabbi, as you call teach/learners of this particular rhythm or distortion of understanding, at a very young age.

At the age of approximately thirteen and one-half of your years, this entity left the dwelling place of its earthly family, as you would call it, and walked into many other places seeking further information. This went on sporadically until the entity was approximately twenty-five, at which time it returned to its family dwelling, and learned and practiced the art of its earthly father.

When the entity had become able to integrate or synthesize all experiences, the entity began to speak to other-selves and teach/learn what it had felt during the preceding years to be of a worthwhile nature. The entity was absolved karmically of the destruction of an other-self when it was in the last portion of lifetime and spoke upon what you would call a cross saying, “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.” In forgiveness lies the stoppage of the wheel of action, or what you call karma."

[eileenrose]

Yes, I tend to go along the lines of this discussion that if you accept that Jesus existed, then you can't ignore how similar his story is to previous stories. Like any myth, it has a basis for truth. But as I mentioned, I have let go of figuring out if he existed. It doesn't make sense to keep trying (unless you are still confused by the amount of 'press' he is given....but notice it is by people who get something 'from advertising about him').

I like reading neutral discussion about him. But that is it these days. Afraid I can't stomach more delusions based on his supposed resurrection, but happy to discuss any actual facts (or as close to facts as we have).

[eileenrose]

PS: In one way, (just one), we are able to talk about him without having to check with him (about what we think about him). Not so with the current masters available. I just got konked on the head (for the upteenth time) by one (indirectly). Sometimes (I am trying to say this humbly), it is nice when they arn't around to 'check on what your saying about them'.

you gotta have a sense of humor

[RedeZra]

there are thousands of testimonies about Jesus on youtube alone


it's not that Jesus doesn't exist

it's just you

who has not seen Him yet

[kreagle]

I have heard Jesus travelled widely during his teens and twenties, to the west as far as England and to the east as far as India. There is some evidence to support this from both directions.

When one thinks about it, it certainly seems probable that this is what happened. One's teens and twenties are some of our most active years in life.

Jesus bounced at age 13, Why? he was most liekly the son of Julius Cesar & Cleopatra, but when Cesar was killed he was no longer in line for the thrown as another son was chosen above him.. he vowed to come back and conquer the roman empire through "means other than military might". he left for 17 years, came back with a plan, got cruisified, taken live to a cave and emerged later (some people were tipped off to witnes this of course) the story came out.. a few "miracles" performed (he was Pharo blood after all... & held knowledge that was occulted from the rest of the world at the time...)

and look at his success! the Vatican... the power it wields...

Got that stuff from a well presented documentary (that was 5 hours long...) don't recall the title however... interesting stuff.. lots of good corroborating evidence

Proverbs 14:12
King James Version (KJV)

12There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Sir,....when things begin to fall all around us in the very near future,.......you will find that the "real son of Julius Caesar and Cleopatra", ("if" indeed they had one) won't be able to do anything for you! He has long since returned to the "dust from which he came". Jesus Christ was the Son of God, while He was in flesh upon this earth, and now He is fully our Lord God. His imminent return is our only hope.

Your "faith" is currently lying dormant in your life,....but you still have time to "activate" it,....."if" you will only recognize your need.

Peace and Love,......kreagle

[eileenrose]

Hi RedeZra,
I get people want to contain Jesus fans to a tight little circumference.
So we all agree with who ever is talking about him.
I tend to form my own opinions of whomever I am referring to.
Yes, it is alright to form opinions about Jesus.
Jesus, or our idea of him, won't mind.

I am feeling he is often misunderstood because we tend to devalue his advice constantly.

"Take no thought of tomorrow, let tomorrow take thought of itself" (paraphrase)

This is soo true.
By living in the past, or projecting our ideas into the future, we constantly are missing the moment we are actually in.

[panopticon]

G'day kreagle,

While your statement was not directed at me I will respond as it may as well have been:

Your "faith" is currently lying dormant in your life,....but you still have time to "activate" it,....."if" you will only recognize your need.

My faith is not lying dormant within me. I do not hold to the same faith as you, that is all. I don't need to activate any thing. You're just being condescending by saying that. By repeatedly quoting near on meaningless statements from the Iron Age as "evidence", or "proof", you do nothing for your position.

Indeed your reference to a chicken-little-esque 'the sky is falling' ignores the fact that christians have been saying (for near on 2000 years) "we are living in the final days". Seems to me that maybe someone should re-evaluate the possibility that maybe we ain't! If you like I can supply a list of dates to do with this (or you can simply search it yourself). I have often said in this forum that one day someone who says 'The end is Nigh!' will be right. That isn't divine inspiration, just the law of averages. Plus, with enough people in "power" believing this rubbish it is probable that it could end up being a self fulfilling prophecy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-fulfilling_prophecy).

G'day RedeZra,


there are thousands of testimonies about Jesus on youtube alone

I agree that there are way too many video's on Youtube by Christians, the only thing I disagree with you on is that there are probably millions, not thousands. I just use discernment to try and wade around it.
There should be some place where they congregate together. You know, like minds all getting together to re-enforce their dogma... Oh wait... There is!


it's not that Jesus doesn't exist
it's just you
who has not seen Him yet
You've said nothing here.
Nor have I seen Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy and I'm not holding my breath on either of those accounts.

As I have said a number of times... I reckon anyone is free to believe whatever they like about whoever, or whatever, they like.
Why don't you comment on my position regards the possible mytho-historicity of Jesus?
I'm a bit sick of the empty rhetoric.
Regards, :yo:
Panopticon.

[kreagle]

Goodday to you, panopticon

Re: Jesus Christ May Not Have Died on Cross

While your statement was not directed at me I will respond as it may as well have been:

G'day kreagle,

Posted by kreagle (here)
Your "faith" is currently lying dormant in your life,....but you still have time to "activate" it,....."if" you will only recognize your need.

My faith is not lying dormant within me. I do not hold to the same faith as you, that is all. I don't need to activate any thing. You're just being condescending by saying that. By repeatedly quoting near on meaningless statements from the Iron Age as "evidence", or "proof", you do nothing for your position.

Indeed your reference to a chicken-little-esque 'the sky is falling' ignores the fact that christians have been saying (for near on 2000 years) "we are living in the final days". Seems to me that maybe someone should re-evaluate the possibility that maybe we ain't! If you like I can supply a list of dates to do with this (or you can simply search it yourself). I have often said in this forum that one day someone who says 'The end is Nigh!' will be right. That isn't divine inspiration, just the law of averages. Plus, with enough people in "power" believing this rubbish it is probable that it could end up being a self fulfilling prophecy.

The repetitive "meaningless statements", (your words), you are hearing quoted here are "His Words",......not mine. This is certainly not the "first time" that God's Word has offended,.....nor will it be the "last". You see, God's Word, has that innate Divine ability to "cut to the chase" and to get down to the core components of "truth",....whether we like it or not. The wise man listens and "adjusts his position" to be in harmony with these wonderful teachings. Others reject it and embark on their own self-enlightened pathways.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

quote:
christians have been saying (for near on 2000 years) "we are living in the final days".

Just because there has been,...to this point....the "absence of Judgement",....does not invariably mean that there is "Judgement that will remain absent". Noah, and his three sons Ham, Shem, and Japheth, including their wives, were relentlessly ridiculed for 100 years as He obeyed God and followed the "blueprint" given to him to build an Ark of Gopher wood. It took the final act of securing themselves in that selfsame Ark and "God shutting the door" for the "tongue waggers" and doubters to come to the horrifying realization that the "Judgement of God" was finally here. This period of time, whether it's 2000 years or 100 years is referred to "The Grace Period" of God. There have always been those, (the "few"), who are wise during this time of "Grace", and there has always been those, (the "many") who "drown themselves" out to the flood of God's final Judgement.

It took "faith" to get on the Ark and to go to all the back breaking work to build it,...but I bet the family of Noah was grateful when that great vessel "rose above" the waters of Judgement and carried them to safety,....to start a new life, as God dictated. It still takes "faith" to get in the "Church" that Peter and the rest of the Apostles builded, on the Day of Pentecost, in Acts chapter 1 and 2, .....but it "still carries, and will carry the occupants to safety,...to start an "eternal life" with their God. The very sad thing is,.....there are sill very "few" that actually do it.

Matthew 7:13-14
King James Version (KJV)

13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

[RedeZra]

there are thousands of testimonies about Jesus on youtube alone

I agree that there are way too many video's on Youtube by Christians, the only thing I disagree with you on is that there are probably millions, not thousands. I just use discernment to try and wade around it.

Why don't you comment on my position regards the possible mytho-historicity of Jesus?


hi Pan

you're right


there are not thousands but millions of testimonies from folks all over the world who have had an experience with the Living God

atheists muslims buddhists christians

whatever box you want to put us in

it doesn't matter to Jesus



the possible mytho-historicity of Jesus is just a lame lie of Satan who rules this world

to trick you into error

[eileenrose]

I did have a thought about this the other day. Just what are people experiencing and why do they feel it is related to a god like figure?

I would say that perhaps a person, who doesn't know better, wakes up or has an experience outside of 'normal' and then attributes it to whatever religion that they feel aligned with.

And that is as far as it goes.

I feel that this is really a blindness that affects people. A lazy way to be. But it isn't up to me to expose it. Just notice it.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

One person went all the way with Christianity (and became Jesus like......which is what I aspired to as a young person....didn't lots of us?) was Anthony De Mello.
I enjoy his work (he has since passed on/died).

Here is a something from him. Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vmTSdxxnTw

Anthony De Mello "Wake up" part 1 of 4

[RedeZra]

I did have a thought about this the other day. Just what are people experiencing and why do they feel it is related to a god like figure?

I would say that perhaps a person, who doesn't know better, wakes up or has an experience outside of 'normal' and then attributes it to whatever religion that they feel aligned with.



please these testimonies tell of actual interaction with Jesus in such a way that it is not possible to confuse or doubt who He is




testimony from a Muslim man

sno1c3n0xxc


testimony from a Muslim woman

Rrt0cAqJURk


testimony from a Christian man

tQe8m85IAsI



remember these are just three out of three millions testimonies about Jesus

[eileenrose]

Hi Redez.
You mention:
"please these testimonies tell of actual interaction with Jesus in such a way that it is not possible to confuse or doubt who He is"

I realize that this is part of the belief system that is currently in play.
A thousand years ago this might have gotten you the cross yourself (saying you saw Jesus....wasn't that kind of thing reserved for the elite in the church?).

Not everyone subscribes to it.
How are you with that?

As far as I can ascertain, we are allowed, in this forum, to have opposing views.
I'd love to chat more. But up to you.

[RedeZra]

A thousand years ago this might have gotten you the cross yourself (saying you saw Jesus....wasn't that kind of thing reserved for the elite in the church?).



not at all

the Church reveres her saints

[Nathalie]

i said, she said, we said they said....


does this really get you somewhere??

Jesus WAS LOVE

you ARE love.

create love everywhere, in everything that you do.

This is our mandate



you make it sound so cozy cotton celine

don't you feel a duty to speak up when you see wrong

What makes you think she sees wrong? How can any of us here state that we know the truth about Jesus??

[RedeZra]

What makes you think she sees wrong? How can any of us here state that we know the truth about Jesus??

love is never wrong


i have my opinions and you all have your opinions

and when our opinions diverge

then one of us or both is wrong


that is not so important

still we speak up for what we think is true

[panopticon]

the possible mytho-historicity of Jesus is just a lame lie of Satan who rules this world to trick you into error

G'day Red,

I am not surprised that you say that it is the work of Satan.
I, however, do find it an interesting hypothesis (that Jesus was constructed to function as a rallying point for a defeated peoples following the fall of the 2nd temple in 70 CE) and one I have been looking into.
Thank you, as usual, for being respectful of my position ("conversation not conversion") and I shall continue to endeavour to be respectful of yours.
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

Addendum:
I think the "millions not thousands of Youtube video's" statement might be the first time we actually agree on anything! :cool:

[Nathalie]

What makes you think she sees wrong? How can any of us here state that we know the truth about Jesus??

love is never wrong


i have my opinions and you all have your opinions

and when our opinions diverge

then one of us or both is wrong


that is not so important

still we speak up for what we think is true

You do have a point! But "what I think is true", might not be. So I don't hold on to that as truth per se, but rather as a possibility. And what is right and wrong and truth? Nothing but perception, really... But I digress...
And I do like you picture!!

[Lettherebelight]

Thanks for sharing those testimonies, RedeZra.

They were really far out....wonderful!

[Lettherebelight]

I also appreciate Pan's unflappable logic and reason!

[panopticon]

G'day kreagle,

Thanks for the response.

Before anything else I thought I should let you know that I am not offended by the various texts of the Bible. I regard the OT as the writings of a heroic people creating a history for themselves in a dangerous and desolate region. I say this so you know I am not "anti-bible", as this seemed to be the underlying sentiment of your post and rhetoric in response to me.

From my perspective the New Testament is not "His words". Anyone is free to believe that if they choose and I would never dream of telling anyone to believe anything else as their faith is their faith and absolutely nothing to do with me (or anyone else for that matter). To me the NT was written roughly between 70 CE and 100 CE (maybe add a decade or two on the top side for some NT texts) and many of the texts chosen for inclusion are of unknown authorship (even though some are attributed to various "apostles") and are of dubious accuracy. The validity of the OT as a source reference is equally problematic. I am not attacking the various texts here, merely stating the facts as I see them. To use these texts to verify and give validity to your position is circular reasoning that does not assist your position, in my view, and only reinforces dogma. I try to look at the surrounding events, in the region and time discussed, while I form a position from a number of different sources (if possible). This is why I said that '[b]y repeatedly quoting near on meaningless statements from the Iron Age as "evidence", or "proof", you do nothing for your position.'

Your use of the Babylonian/Sumerian deluge story (the origin of the Noah flood story) is a case in point. It has not proven your argument, from my position it only weakens it. There is evidence of a regionally isolated flood, in all likelihood caused by an outburst flooding event, but of the world wide deluge story there is no evidence. Please refer to the Bible thread for information regards my position on this if interested.

It is reasonable, for me anyway, to assume that the early Jews did much the same thing as the Romans (in a later period) by adopting various pre-existing stories in their creation of an epic historical account of their origins. This is not "fringe" thinking but quite an acceptable position on the Tanakh's origins. When they created their history they adapted the stories that they understood to create an homogeneous group while reinforcing their cultural and social distinctiveness from those around them.

There is some contention, however, generally it is thought that the 'Epic of Gilgamesh' was either taken from, or influenced by, the Akkadian 'Epic of Atra-Hasis'.
So in creating their own history the ancient Israelites (ie those from the 'Southern Kingdom of Juda' and the 'Northern Kingdom of Israel') made use of these traditional stories, as they had learnt them, while only changing them from a polytheist context to a monotheist one. To me this also explains why there are periodic inconsistencies in the use of the plural form in reference to YHWH. Of course this is far from conclusive evidence, regards to the use of the plural form, as the consonant based Hebrew causes difficulty and the Greek is possibly adjusted to reflect Hellenistic understandings, speech and thought patterns of the 3rd and 2nd Centuries BCE.



Just because there has been,...to this point....the "absence of Judgement",....does not invariably mean that there is "Judgement that will remain absent".

So are you saying here that just because every previous prediction was wrong that it is just a matter of time?
If that is your position then I agree. Eventually the Earth will be destroyed in a cataclysm. That is something you can count on.
Whether an asteroid hits (like the one that killed the dinosaurs), a mega-volcano erupts (similar to that which caused the mass deaths on the Indian peninsular around 74,000 BP), the Sun expands and destroys the Earth (billions of years from now) or any other number of possible cataclysmic events the earth will not be suitable for human life at some time in the future.

The reason I introduced the possibility of Jesus being a mytho-historical character was to draw attention to the position that if there was no Jesus, there was no crucifixion for him to die from.

I look forward to your response.
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

[RedeZra]

To me the NT was written roughly between 70 CE and 100 CE (maybe add a decade or two on the top side for some NT texts) and many of the texts chosen for inclusion are of unknown authorship (even though some are attributed to various "apostles") and are of dubious accuracy.


let us not forget that it is only in these last 200 years

that the historicity of Jesus has been put into doubt


nobody questioned if Jesus walked the earth for 1800 years

until a french philosopher started to philosophise or mind masturbate

about maybe Jesus did not actually exist


there is no mention in the NT about the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 AD

so the NT was probably written before 70 AD by the Apostles themselves


if the NT is right then Satan is the brain and backbone behind the governments

and we all know that he doesn't exactly fancy Jesus

[jorr lundstrom]

To me the NT was written roughly between 70 CE and 100 CE (maybe add a decade or two on the top side for some NT texts) and many of the texts chosen for inclusion are of unknown authorship (even though some are attributed to various "apostles") and are of dubious accuracy.


let us not forget that it is only in these last 200 years

that the historicity of Jesus has been put into doubt


nobody questioned if Jesus walked the earth for 1800 years

until a french philosopher started to philosophise or mind masturbate

about maybe Jesus did not actually exist


there is no mention in the NT about the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 AD

so the NT was probably written before 70 AD by the Apostles themselves


if the NT is right then Satan is the brain and backbone behind the governments

and we all know that he doesn't exactly fancy Jesus


So you do mean that a lot of ppl being executed for that reason wasnt even guilty
of questioning the existence of a Jesus?

I do think it still was dangerous 200 years ago to question the existence of a Jesus,
but today I hope the inquisition has come to an end, or?

If this guy you claim you talk about need ppl to fancy him, may I suggest Facebook.
Ive heard one can get a lot of friends over there.


Jorr

[RedeZra]

If this guy you claim you talk about need ppl to fancy him, may I suggest Facebook.
Ive heard one can get a lot of friends over there.



Satan would not want His profile on facebook

so Jesus would have to sign up in another Name with another AV


if the Inquisition had been competent then Satan would not be so strong today

as it is Satan is the power behind the governments

educating us into his image


the upside-down version of truths

which will make us miss the mark

and perhaps perish ?!


the Inquisition of old was soft

not like our soldiers of today

[araucaria]

[

if the Inquisition had been competent then Satan would not be so strong today

as it is Satan is the power behind the governments

educating us into his image

(snip)

the Inquisition of old was soft

not like our soldiers of today


yeah, and God bless the military who are doing such a wonderful job...

There's got to be a forum rule about this sort of nonsense

[panopticon]

To me the NT was written roughly between 70 CE and 100 CE (maybe add a decade or two on the top side for some NT texts) and many of the texts chosen for inclusion are of unknown authorship (even though some are attributed to various "apostles") and are of dubious accuracy.
let us not forget that it is only in these last 200 years
that the historicity of Jesus has been put into doubt
nobody questioned if Jesus walked the earth for 1800 years
until a french philosopher started to philosophise or mind masturbate
about maybe Jesus did not actually exist
there is no mention in the NT about the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 AD
so the NT was probably written before 70 AD by the Apostles themselves
if the NT is right then Satan is the brain and backbone behind the governments
and we all know that he doesn't exactly fancy Jesus

G'day RedeZra,

Jorr beat me to responding regards the power and control exerted by the Roman Catholic Church for the past 1700 years of its existence. With the centralisation of control under Constantine in the 4th Century, and associated persecution of "heretics" from that period until the Enlightenment, there was little chance for anyone to question the central tenets of the oppressors. In 1633 Galileo was forced to say the earth didn't move around the sun under threat of imprisonment at the hands of the inquisition. We all know how understanding those guys were! This would have been the equivalent of a death sentence if he hadn't recanted.

In regards to the authorship dates of the New Testament's texts, I am of the opinion that they were written roughly between 70 CE and 100 CE. The lack of a reference to the destruction of the 2nd temple in 70 CE is often used as a reason to date the texts earlier but I am not convinced by this. Yes, it is a good argument but one that relies on the texts not being written in a retrospective fashion looking back to a heroic time before the destruction of the temple. I am not alone and there are many biblical scholars that date the texts to the later period, just as there are many who date some of them to a decade earlier (ie 60 CE - 100 CE) which fits somewhere near what seems to be your dating.

Unfortunately it is impossible to know for certain regards a ten year difference from 2000 years ago so I reckon that once again we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

My point is that, for me at least, there is the possibility that Jesus (as we know him today) never existed, but was constructed so as to create a rallying point after the defeat of the messianic Jewish Sects that were the instigators of the Zealot led rebellion (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/revolt.html) (66-70 CE). That is one reason why I lean more to the later dates (in particular to do with the 4 Gospels which many scholars date to a post 70 CE time frame).
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

[kreagle]

G'day kreagle,

Thanks for the response.

Before anything else I thought I should let you know that I am not offended by the various texts of the Bible. I regard the OT as the writings of a heroic people creating a history for themselves in a dangerous and desolate region. I say this so you know I am not "anti-bible", as this seemed to be the underlying sentiment of your post and rhetoric in response to me.

From my perspective the New Testament is not "His words". Anyone is free to believe that if they choose and I would never dream of telling anyone to believe anything else as their faith is their faith and absolutely nothing to do with me (or anyone else for that matter). To me the NT was written roughly between 70 CE and 100 CE (maybe add a decade or two on the top side for some NT texts) and many of the texts chosen for inclusion are of unknown authorship (even though some are attributed to various "apostles") and are of dubious accuracy. The validity of the OT as a source reference is equally problematic. I am not attacking the various texts here, merely stating the facts as I see them. To use these texts to verify and give validity to your position is circular reasoning that does not assist your position, in my view, and only reinforces dogma. I try to look at the surrounding events, in the region and time discussed, while I form a position from a number of different sources (if possible). This is why I said that 'y repeatedly quoting near on meaningless statements from the Iron Age as "evidence", or "proof", you do nothing for your position.'

Your use of the Babylonian/Sumerian deluge story (the origin of the Noah flood story) is a case in point. It has not proven your argument, from my position it only weakens it. There is evidence of a regionally isolated flood, in all likelihood caused by an outburst flooding event, but of the world wide deluge story there is no evidence. Please refer to the Bible thread for information regards my position on this if interested.

It is reasonable, for me anyway, to assume that the early Jews did much the same thing as the Romans (in a later period) by adopting various pre-existing stories in their creation of an epic historical account of their origins. This is not "fringe" thinking but quite an acceptable position on the Tanakh's origins. When they created their history they adapted the stories that they understood to create an homogeneous group while reinforcing their cultural and social distinctiveness from those around them.

There is some contention, however, generally it is thought that the 'Epic of Gilgamesh' was either taken from, or influenced by, the Akkadian 'Epic of Atra-Hasis'.
So in creating their own history the ancient Israelites (ie those from the 'Southern Kingdom of Juda' and the 'Northern Kingdom of Israel') made use of these traditional stories, as they had learnt them, while only changing them from a polytheist context to a monotheist one. To me this also explains why there are periodic inconsistencies in the use of the plural form in reference to YHWH. Of course this is far from conclusive evidence, regards to the use of the plural form, as the consonant based Hebrew causes difficulty and the Greek is possibly adjusted to reflect Hellenistic understandings, speech and thought patterns of the [B]3rd and 2nd Centuries BCE.



Just because there has been,...to this point....the "absence of Judgement",....does not invariably mean that there is "Judgement that will remain absent".

So are you saying here that just because every previous prediction was wrong that it is just a matter of time?
If that is your position then I agree. Eventually the Earth will be destroyed in a cataclysm. That is something you can count on.
Whether an asteroid hits (like the one that killed the dinosaurs), a mega-volcano erupts (similar to that which caused the mass deaths on the Indian peninsular around 74,000 BP), the Sun expands and destroys the Earth (billions of years from now) or any other number of possible cataclysmic events the earth will not be suitable for human life at some time in the future.

The reason I introduced the possibility of Jesus being a mytho-historical character was to draw attention to the position that if there was no Jesus, there was no crucifixion for him to die from.

I look forward to your response.
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon


Panopticon, Even though there is quite a start difference between our own personal "chosen belief systems", I want to personally thank you for your civil tone and response. I, too, am not "offended",....but rather that I am "greatly concerned" because of the various opinions rendered here. Eternity matters!,....and the decisions we all make now affect our individual eternal destinies!!!

You may have noticed that I "highlighted" your quoted dates above with the usage of CE, (the Common Era), and BCE, (before the Common Era). This, of course, is commonly used by those who wish to "remove the reference to Christianity" in our dating system, where B.C., (before Christ) and A.D., (Latin for anno Domini or "the year of our Lord", are more readily recognized and used.) My greatest fear, in this, is that when one "removes" certain aspects of any given equation,.....the answer and the "outcome" also are radically changed, causing great sorrow and anguish, at a later date, for "that which has been removed!"

You see,....Peter's "manner of speech" was a clear indicator that he was "with Jesus",....just as your "manner of speech" is equally a clear indicator that you are currently not. You have questions and doubts concerning the validity of God's Word, and that is certainly your right to do so, if that's the direction you choose.

Matthew 26:73
King James Version (KJV)

73And after a while came unto him they that stood by, and said to Peter, Surely thou also art one of them; for thy speech bewrayeth thee.

You question, among many other things, the validity of a "global flood" and state that there's no proof. If you simply "Google"........."scientific proof of Noah's flood",.....you will find plenty of references in support of this global flooding event,....and yes,.....you will also find support that it was not a global flooding event. It's just according to what "expert" you want to side with and believe.

As for me,....you might have guessed it already,.....

Genesis 7:20
King James Version (KJV)

20Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

And

Psalm 104:6
King James Version (KJV)

6Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.

Panopticon, I feel it is necessary to say, at this point, that I will be more than happy to address "every point" or "question" that you have brought up in your post,...if you would like for me to.

I would like to provide a link to an earlier "Avalon" post I made in reference to the "original Church" that some of you may have not seen or read in the past. It will surely disclose my "personal" revelation to the Gospel Message that our Lord is trying to divulge to all of us.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?35256-another-church-ceases-to-be-the-CHURCH&p=361228#post361228

Peace and Love to all,.....kreagle

[panopticon]

G'day kreagle,

Thank you for the response.

I am somewhat confused as to what your point is in your above post.
You have added no extra evidence or information.
Please be aware that I rarely read repeated bible quotations so there is little point in highlighting them or using them as part of your argument in a discussion with me.
Also, to be clear, colouring text for emphasis does not improve your argument.

I would ask that you don't be concerned for my well being as I am fine and very happy. I would hate you to lose sleep over me so don't be worried.
I am also fine to discuss anything with you that relates to the thread we are presently contributing to, however I would point out that I will participate in conversation and not in conversion.

In relation to the various flood myths I would again suggest you visit the Bible thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?35019-the-Bible/page11) and read my position at your leisure as it is not "on topic" with this thread.
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

[RedeZra]

[

if the Inquisition had been competent then Satan would not be so strong today

as it is Satan is the power behind the governments

educating us into his image

(snip)

the Inquisition of old was soft

not like our soldiers of today


yeah, and God bless the military who are doing such a wonderful job...

There's got to be a forum rule about this sort of nonsense


modern man has been molded in the image of Satan so much so it is almost impossible to break free from his ideologies

we think we are educated but we are indoctrinated

it is high time to see the diabolical force behind our governments

the great State or Sate

[RedeZra]

Jorr beat me to responding regards the power and control exerted by the Roman Catholic Church for the past 1700 years of its existence.

there has been a struggle between the Church and European nation states since the Investiture Controversy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investiture_Controversy) before the Crusades

Holy Roman Emperors went to war against the Pope and Henry VIII of England even broke with Rome dissolved the monasteries and confiscated properties of the Church

so the power and influence of the Catholic Church has been steadily declining for a thousand years

and today the Church is infested by masons with the agenda to undermine and subvert it

so the struggle between Church and State has seen the rise of Satan and the fall of Christ in the minds of men

Satan is at his pinnacle of power playing the world like a game of chess





My point is that, for me at least, there is the possibility that Jesus (as we know him today) never existed, but was constructed so as to create a rallying point after the defeat of the messianic Jewish Sects that were the instigators of the Zealot led rebellion (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/revolt.html) (66-70 CE).

if we rely soly on our own intellect and investigative abilities to come to a conclusion

then there is the danger that the intellect is not that sharp and the research is not that good

and so we arrive at a wrong conclusion and stubbornly defend it


again there are millions of testimonies about the living reality of Jesus and we simply cannot ignore that

[panopticon]

G'day RedeZra,



there has been a struggle between the Church and European nation states since the Investiture Controversy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investiture_Controversy) before the Crusades
Holy Roman Emperors went to war against the Pope and Henry VIII of England even broke with Rome dissolved the monasteries and confiscated properties of the Church
so the power and influence of the Catholic Church has been steadily declining for a thousand years
Excellent point! May it continue to decline and allow humanity to grow beyond bronze age and iron age dogma so there is never a repeat of the Galileo situation. Where I am concerned is in the rise of conservative Christianity and fundamentalism of all flavours in challenge to reason and rationality. While the discourses revolve around an "end time" there is always the risk of someone trying to make it happen.



if we rely soly on our own intellect and investigative abilities to come to a conclusion
then there is the danger that the intellect is not that sharp and the research is not that good
and so we arrive at a wrong conclusion and stubbornly defend it


I have noticed that you do stubbornly defend your position.
If we don't question dogma than we may end back in the dark ages.
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

[kreagle]

G'day kreagle,

Thank you for the response.

I am somewhat confused as to what your point is in your above post.
You have added no extra evidence or information.
Please be aware that I rarely read repeated bible quotations so there is little point in highlighting them or using them as part of your argument in a discussion with me.
Also, to be clear, colouring text for emphasis does not improve your argument.

I would ask that you don't be concerned for my well being as I am fine and very happy. I would hate you to lose sleep over me so don't be worried.
I am also fine to discuss anything with you that relates to the thread we are presently contributing to, however I would point out that I will participate in conversation and not in conversion.

In relation to the various flood myths I would again suggest you visit the Bible thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?35019-the-Bible/page11) and read my position at your leisure as it is not "on topic" with this thread.
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

Panopticon, You say you are confused as to what my point is,....but I can assure you that I am not confused at all, for I know "exactly" what is going on in this thread,....and so do "you".

The problem or "confusion" comes in to play when it has become clear that I am not playing by the "same set of rules" that the "game" began with.

The "game" began with the following blatant statement:Re: Jesus Christ May Not Have Died on Cross Consequently it appears that you only want to "play this game" with non-Christians who would not dare challenge you on this topic.

You continue to challenge me to "prove my point",....but you don't care for the "evidence" that I provide with my faith in God or the usage of the Scriptures that you "rarely read",..(your quote).

The "real reason" for posts of this nature invariably begin in an "attempt to tear down and disprove" what God has already established and set in motion,....and that, my friend,....is His Word

No doubt, this has been attempted by many intellectuals down through the ages of time,....but when the dust settles,.....His Word is "still there, just as strong as it has ever been!

Psalm 119:89
King James Version (KJV)

89For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.

You see, to those who don't try to ridicule and tear down His Word, it eventually becomes a priority to "deal with it" and to reach out and accept this Wonderful Savior and the abundant life He promises.

John 10:10
King James Version (KJV)

10The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

I know you don't care for my "highlights",...."colors",......and certainly not the "quoting of Scriptures",.....but in that "vein of thought",......have you stopped and noticed just how may "events around us" are being "highlighted" everyday?

World economies collapsing?,......Constant Wars, (on the verge of WWIII),......Increased Volcanic activity,.......Increased Earthquake activity,....Weather Patterns worsening,......Health problems, (cancer,etc.), escalating?,.....

Who do you think is "highlighting" these events for us all to see? Yes, it's all in His Word,....and I won't quote it here,....because you already know it's there,....don't you!

In conclusion, you might find it comforting to know that I haven't lost a wink of sleep over you,....however I do find it hard to sleep sometimes, in that I worry over the "lost sheep" who are "looking for their Shepherd!"

With the Best of Regards and Intentions,.... kreagle

[panopticon]

G'day kreagle,

Wow.

I didn't start this thread and only contributed to it so as to point out that there is a possibility that the messianic christ figure (Jesus) may have been a construct of the defeated messianic/apocalyptic Jews in 70 CE following the destruction of the 2nd Temple by the Roman forces in response to the failed Jewish/Zealot rebellion (66 CE - 70 CE). I admit that this is a contentious issue and can understand why you view this as a personal attack and/or an attack on your personal faith. I can do nothing about that other than apologise as that was not my intent. I am uncertain as to why you think I am not interested in talking to Christians as I regularly have very civil chats with Christian friends of mine (pastors, reverends and priests have been among them over the years) in regards to this very issue. BTW, the OP is not saying that Jesus wasn't killed and rose again, merely that the choice of implement may have not been a cross. My post may well have been out of context with the thread and I only posted so as to put across an alternate dialogue. There was no offence intended to "believers".

The reason I don't usually read bible quotes is that they are often used as a form of sermonisation that I have absolutely no interest in. That having been said if it upsets you so much use them to your hearts content and I shall read them all so as to be able to give a reasoned and informed reply. Same goes for "highlighting" text with colour and bold text. I was only trying to ask you to be thoughtful as the colour etc makes it difficult for me to read and I have to copy it to a note pad and it does nothing to improve your position, in relation to a discussion with me, as when I copy it to a notepad for reading all the formatting, that takes time for you to do, is removed. I should have been clearer about this in my previous post. Whatever is your preference in this matter.

Also, just to be absolutely clear. I don't play games with people. If I say I don't understand your point, I mean I don't understand your point and/or would like further clarification so as to be able to continue the discourse without misunderstanding. Your diatribe has done neither and only confused me further. It appears you are trying to draw me into a debate on scripture. While this may be wonderful for you, it would be a pain in the backside for me as I am quite busy and would need to take time out to research something that is not high on my to-do list. If you are not able to participate in a discourse without repeated reference to scripture, I would have to research the related documentation and my concordance and then respond as time permits. As this is not a forum on Bible studies I see no reason why I should do so.

I also am not trying to 'ridicule and tear down His word'. I have a different understanding of the origins of the texts in question and while yours is based on an inerrant faith in it as 'His word' (please clarify if this is not the case), mine is based on a variety of ancient documents and cultural practices/references used to research and deconstruction the texts in question. This is not implying that you have not done research or deconstruction of the various texts, rather that you pre-suppose that the Bible is without error, while I do not. I think you have faith that the Bible, in its entirety, is the true word of YHWH (again, please clarify if this is not the case) while I view that the OT is a collection of quasi-historical texts written by a heroic people in the construction of a culture and a distinct social identity and that the NT was possibly largely written during the period following the destruction of the 2nd Temple so as to rally the defeated Jewish people and Gentile converts.

I look forward with trepidation to your response...
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

[The One]

This video is a pre­sen­ta­tion of the evi­dence for the exis­tence of Jesus. It uses only non -​ bi­blical sources and goes th­rough the skep­tical ar­gu­ments for each claim. It will be sur­pri­sing for some to see how much evi­dence for the his­to­ri­city of Jesus there ac­tu­ally is, in fact there is more evi­dence for Jesus' exis­tence, as you will see, than there is for most of the pro­mi­nent fi­gures in an­cient his­tory. Note: Wat­ching this video will take away your abi­lity to claim ho­nestly that Jesus was a myth

vklf2u31FRE

[panopticon]

This video is a pre­sen­ta­tion of the evi­dence for the exis­tence of Jesus. It uses only non -​ bi­blical sources and goes th­rough the skep­tical ar­gu­ments for each claim. It will be sur­pri­sing for some to see how much evi­dence for the his­to­ri­city of Jesus there ac­tu­ally is, in fact there is more evi­dence for Jesus' exis­tence, as you will see, than there is for most of the pro­mi­nent fi­gures in an­cient his­tory. Note: Wat­ching this video will take away your abi­lity to claim ho­nestly that Jesus was a myt

vklf2u31FRE

G'day The One,

I am familiar with this documentary and presented it in the Bible thread.
I will re-watch it but don't recall there being any incontrovertible proof in it...
I have said a number of times in this forum that the only reason I think that there may have been an historical Jesus (possibly a wandering preacher) is because of the gnostic texts found at Nag Hammadi (commonly referred to as the 'Nag Hammadi Library' or 'The Lost Gospels').
A link to the texts is here:
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl.html

In particular the 'Gospel of Thomas (http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl_thomas.htm)' appears to be a copy of an earlier document, or oral tradition, that may pre-date the 70 CE time frame I referenced.
This is not me saying this, about the 'Gospel of Thomas', but quite main stream thinking on the subject. Of course there are also those who date it as late as the 2nd Century. There in lies the problem.
The 'Gospel of Mary' is dated, I think at earliest, to 120 CE and contains some of the miracle stories (the resurrection from memory is mentioned).

It should also be remembered that the 'Gospel of Thomas' does not have any of the miracle stories. This also matches with the creation of the mytho-historic christ figure hypothesis.

Any further information/evidence is welcomed as I am more than happy to be proven wrong. I've looked at translations of much of the source material from the period and have found no conclusive evidence.

It makes not an iota of difference to me, one way or the other, and would save me time researching something that is incorrect.
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

Addendum:
I've always liked this verse from the GOT:

(113) His disciples said to him, "When will the kingdom come?"
<Jesus said,> "It will not come by waiting for it. It will not be a matter of saying 'here it is' or 'there it is.' Rather, the kingdom of the father is spread out upon the earth, and men do not see it."

[Kindred]

A news item I just received from Message to Eagle news...
Unknown Energy Source Created Image on Turin Shroud:

http://www.messagetoeagle.com/shroudofturin.php?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Messagetoeaglecom+%28Message+To+Eagle+-+News%29&utm_content=Yahoo!+Mail

Now... for further 'evidence', I'll provide this Bible verse:

Quote John 8:23:
“And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.”

I will suggest that if you wish to Know the reason for both of these items, simply read Thiaoouba Prophecy. It WILL challenge Much of what you believe about our world, and both it's past history and our current 'status'.

Moreover, you will learn the Truth about the life of Jesus... and Much more.

free pdf file of the book: http://www.lanuovaumanita.net/files/tp-typeset.pdf

In Unity, Peace and LOVE

[RedeZra]

I will suggest that if you wish to Know the reason for both of these items, simply read Thiaoouba Prophecy. It WILL challenge Much of what you believe about our world, and both it's past history and our current 'status'.

Moreover, you will learn the Truth about the life of Jesus... and Much more.



the truth about Jesus is in the Book about Jesus my one eyed friend

Jesus who is God has protected the Bible

so everybody could learn the truth and seek Him

[Kindred]

the truth about Jesus is in the Book about Jesus my one eyed friend

Jesus who is God has protected the Bible

so everybody could learn the truth and seek Him

How interesting. I offer another source of knowledge about a significant religious figure, and you choose to use an obtuse denigration of an avatar to suggest a negative inference to this information...

Just the same, I feel I must point out that the Bible has been manipulated by those who seek domination over humanity. It is no coincidence that All of these religions are run by old men in expensive and fancy robes whose sole purpose is to seek Lots of Money, along with power and control of the masses. Note that the Only time Jesus got angry was when he threw the money changers from the temple. He Knew the Horrors of such Addictions. Yet, All religions, without fail, covet and hoard Money, along with the power and influence that comes with it.
(a side note... the Vatican Owns most of the satellites that monitor the Sun... there is a Reason for this... these people Know something, and they aren't telling us)

Jesus certainly did exist... just not in the fashion that is told to us. He was capable of Extraordinarily Miraculous Accomplishments - True Miracles - at least to Our eyes. He was capable of these things For A Reason; He was a Master In Nature, and Understood the Truth, the Methods and the Means of Spirituality along with the connection to Source/God that All Life Has. He Strove to show humanity that We Too are Immortal - as long as we Dedicated our lives to the Development of our Spirit and sought to live in Peace and Harmony, both with each other, and Nature. His Purpose was as a Messenger.

I repeat: Quote John 8:23:
“And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.”

But the Bible, as it was written, re-written, interpreted and edited though the ages, has been distorted in so many ways. Some parts are missing completely. In an attempt to rectify these manipulations, and 'set the record straight', Thiaoouba Prophecy was 'commissioned' by those who sent Jesus, who were his brethren.

You, and everyone else, has Free Will, and may choose to Accept or Ignore the Knowledge that this book provides. But, to suggest it is Not worthy of consideration is Denying said Free Will of any who seek such knowledge.

I am as dedicated to Free Will, as is Source/God. Are you?

In Unity, Peace and LOVE

[RedeZra]

the truth about Jesus is in the Book about Jesus my one eyed friend

Jesus who is God has protected the Bible

so everybody could learn the truth and seek Him


But the Bible, as it was written, re-written, interpreted and edited though the ages, has been distorted in so many ways. Some parts are missing completely. In an attempt to rectify these manipulations, and 'set the record straight', Thiaoouba Prophecy was 'commissioned' by those who sent Jesus, who were his brethren.




if Jesus is God

in a world governed by devils

then it takes God to protect anything


the question is if God is able to preserve His words to us

[Kindred]

the question is if God is able to preserve His words to us

'He' (Source/God) is able to protect / Project Life... not words. Words are what We use to communicate, and thus We control them - if we so choose. We have Free Will to do what we wish with the words. 'He' does Not need words to truly communicate to us, and one need only meditate to Connect with the "Word" that 'He' 'speaks to us'.

"The Word" is All Creation.

The Greatest Temple of Man, is Within Himself... NOT Without. Look Inward to Find Source and it's Truth in The Word. Be At One with All Creation, and seek not it's domination, but embrace it in Love and Respect.

We are not 'devils'... nor are those that seek to repress humanity. Some Act like 'devils', but that is simply the duality of this density, and is a result of the Free Will that is given to All.

The ego accounts for the terrible actions we see taking place, and this adoration of the ego is what is responsible for the atrocities we witness. The ego knows only that which is without, and Not what is Within. This is why we need to look inward, and See the Love that has been given to All, by Source.

In Unity, Peace and LOVE

[RedeZra]

the question is if God is able to preserve His words to us


The Greatest Temple of Man, is Within Himself... NOT Without. Look Inward to Find Source and it's Truth in The Word. Be At One with All Creation, and seek not it's domination, but embrace it in Love and Respect.




it seems to me when we look within

humanity comes up with ten thousand theories

and then we fight over them


instead of just uniting under Jesus and His way and words