Why is gold a treasure? What are the real (non-monetary) reasons is has value?

[Dennis Leahy]

Scarcity defines value. Well, sort of. Scarcity, along with an agreed-upon illusion/delusion of relative worth, defines economic value.

DeBeers tightly controls the knowledge of the quantity of diamonds and has possession of the vast majority of the world's diamonds, and so they get to (nearly privately and solely) assign a value. Oddly, laboratory-created diamonds can be made more clear, more pure, and thus more rare than a mined gem diamond, yet have a lower value than the "naturally" mined ones. So the final value is influenced primarily by (publicly perceived) scarcity, and not the actual attributes of the stone.

Thousands of years ago, nobility and the ruling class were obviously impressed with gold's color stability - it did not oxidize or develop a patina; it stayed shiny. Easy to be worked with hand tools was a great bonus and possessing the color of the sun gave it extra religious/mystical meaning. But the reason it still so highly prized, even now... ?

Was Sitchen the one that made up the story of an alien civilization sending space-barges to Earth to get gold? And, was he the one that originally made up the tale of Annunaki/gorilla date rape, with the result of making more intelligent bipeds that could be trained to mine and refine gold? Elsewhere on Avalon I had posted:

"I also think the concept of ETs coming to Earth for gold is hilarious. I am expected to believe that creatures have the technological skills to navigate a few light years to get here, only to succumb to the same stupid "gold fever" that humans do? With our teeny knowledge of ORMEs and transmutation of elements, I am supposed to believe that advanced beings can't figure that one out, and need to come across the galaxy to get gold?"

Just thought I'd mention that, because I do not believe we were externally infused with gold-fever by aliens.

But, somehow, we Earthlings did indeed get gold fever. And, thousands of years later, we still have the "richest" people on Earth with huge stockpiles of gold. It's really very strange when you examine the idea of something being so valuable that is generally not used for much of anything - except trading. An oasis in the desert is a bonafide treasure. Even a single glass of water - to a thirsty person - is a treasure. Vegetable and fruit seeds are treasures. Rich, loamy soil full of healthy soil microorganisms is a treasure. Why is gold considered to be a treasure in the 21st century?

I realize that the physical gold, in whatever standardized form, is able to be traded - and that attribute is a part of the overall picture of the value of gold. But, I can buy a house without handing over any gold, the bank moves no gold, nor does the mortgage holder or the "financial instrument" packager that adds this sale to others and trades a paper/cyber notation called a derivative... Quadrillions of dollars change hands without gold being touched. The US dollar is NOT backed by gold. Rumors are that there is not enough gold in the possession of the US government to have a gold-bscked dollar, even if they wanted to.

So, what is it about gold? Why is it still considered a treasure?

I'm thinking that possibly the best use for gold will be to draw it into wire, and wind motors that will be at the heart of zero-point energy electric generators - generators that might run continuously for millennia. Possibly also to be used in municipal water purification (monatomic/monoatomic/colloidal gold)?

Is there something really obvious that I'm missing? Why isn't gold used for its "best purpose", and what is its best purpose - the purpose that justifies gold being considered a treasure, even in the 21st century?

Dennis

{edit} Please jump to post #10, the topic has changed to "Why is gold a treasure? What is the monetary reason it has value? " : http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?37255-Why-is-gold-a-treasure-What-are-the-real--non-monetary--reasons-is-has-value&p=481994&viewfull=1#post481994

[bearcow]

So, what is it about gold? Why is it still considered a treasure?


it is a physical representation of the divine mind and a transmitter/receiver for the corresponding astral energy.


The Auric Egg, on account of its nature and manifold functions, has to be well studied. As Hiranyagarbha, the Golden Womb or Egg, contains Brahmâ, the collective symbol of the Seven Universal Forces, so the Auric Egg contains, and is directly related to, both the divine and the physical man.

quote from blavatasky

[TargeT]

Gold + alchemy... there in lies the answer; IMO.

[Colla]

I have seen a interview with an Alchemist who was researching the true power of gold.
He would desolve gold untill only a white powder was left. Which he then fed to a person to enhance that person's IQ.

I'm not really sure exactly how the experiment went, it's been a long time ago. But I think it had something to do with the Philosophers Stone or something.


Edit: I've found the video I was talking about.
R7i-SJlGh3M

[bearcow]

Gold + alchemy... there in lies the answer; IMO.

the philosophers stone (which is the Akasha made into physical substance) refines and eventually transforms the base metals into the perfected state in form, gold.

[Dennis Leahy]

Can we revisit this?

I do think gold is valuable, but its real, objective value is probably in its atomic stability and electrical conductance properties. The rich people on the planet don't stockpile antimony, or bismuth, yet they are 3 times more rare and 15 times more rare than gold, respectively. Even silver is 3 times more rare than gold (and conducts electricity better), but oddly takes a back-seat to gold in terms of "value", having a monetary value 1/100th of gold. Rarity is evidently not the reason.

Can't eat it, can't drink it, can't grow food in it... why in the hell is gold still considered so valuable in 2011?

Dennis

[shadowstalker]

here is a site that tells the metaphysical properties of gold
http://shimmerlings.com/gemstones/gold.htm
there are other sites u just need the time to research.

[Kano]

I do believe that the intrinsic value of gold has to do with its metaphysical properties. As Dennis has shown, it's not valuable due to its scarcity because some metals are far more scarce and not as valuable. The alchemists and gnostics of old, before they were sent into hiding and their knowledge became occult, used gold for many different purposes. As mentioned before in this thread, I believe one of those reasons was to create manna, or the philosopher's stone. At it's truest deepest essence, IMHO, gold interacts with DNA either to repair, amplify it's sensitivity, or some other metaphysical advantage. Doesn't it seem to always, in some shape or form, come back to DNA whatever the subject is? Seems so to me anyway...

[BestLion]

Was Sitchen the one that made up the story of an alien civilization sending space-barges to Earth to get gold? And, was he the one that originally made up the tale of Annunaki/gorilla date rape, with the result of making more intelligent bipeds that could be trained to mine and refine gold? Elsewhere on Avalon I had posted:
Sorry but the mining gold to transport on spaceships is just ridiculous! Sitchen was no expert in Sumerian language also! Gold was used for the body and mind and DNA..and possible for inner dimensional usage..Just think of how absurb it would be to use gold for some huge non living planets atmosphere!..It would take more gold then earth has thats for sure..and then transport this gold..OMG the logistics and energy used is beyond belief. Also planet X is a myth used by Sitchen from one source...could be misinterpreted. Also planet X if it is way out there beyond Pluto would be inhabitable to any life forms due to its lack of light, coldness and harshness of conditions. With or without gold.

[Dennis Leahy]

Allow me to flip the conversation, rather than create a new thread:

Why is gold a treasure? What is the monetary reason it has value?

This is 2012, not 1215, 1492, not 1620, not 1776, not 1945... why in the hell would we consciously base "money" (paper/digital) on gold reserves? Bear in mind that the filthy rich HAVE most of the gold, and can play with the price of gold to alter the value of "money." This is NOT theoretical; they have already done it (with silver, on at least 2 occasions in modern history.) Also bear in mind that an empire like the Rothchilds which supposedly has $500,000,000,000,000.00 (yes, I wanted to make a point with all those zeroes) could easily lose 90% of the value of their empire and would still be among the richest on the planet. In fact, if they played with the value of gold (and dropped the value), they would drop everyone's gold value/holdings in the world, so likely, the Rothchilds empire would still be the richest. In chess terms, they could easily sacrifice their queen to win the chess match.

Money is an abstract concept, an agreement. If I trade a kilo of my carrots for a kilo of your potatoes no money is involved. If I trade my carrots for a piece of paper "worth" one gram of gold, I am assuming that I'll be able to find a kilo of potatoes that I can trade the piece of paper for. I don't want gold; I want to make potato soup. Actually, if you take it one more step, the value of gold is also simply agreed upon. The "value" is not real, or a better way to say it is that gold's intrinsic value in not "money backing." It conducts electricity well and it doesn't corrode. It makes awful potato soup.

I do understand why it is insane to allow a government to print money as they need more money: the more dollars "printed", the less each dollar is worth. Having to have a kilo of gold to "print" $5000 dollars does serve the purpose of limiting a government from just printing wildly. But what about all the nations that have very little or no gold? They don't get to play the global trade game? Or at least they could not print their own money (because they have none of the globally agreed-upon "backing" metal.

Is this making sense? Using gold as money backing is ridiculous.

Again, money is an abstract concept, an agreement. Why not make a smarter agreement? Why not make an agreement that makes gold relatively worthless (except in electronics and shiny jewelry), and which automatically takes a great deal of the wealth away from the ultra rich? Each nation should be able to "mint"/print/create money, not just a few power nations. For the sake of argument, let's say that Costa Rica has zero gold. So, does that mean they not only cannot print money that the rest of the world would trade, but they instantly become interdependent/codependent on whoever's currency they agree to use. Isn't that insane?

The US does not have trillions of dollars worth of gold, yet there are trillions of dollars of "money" traded in the US. So, what would happen if the US decided to switch to gold-backed currency? Maybe the least important question (compared to why we would make such a poor decision for our money agreement) is: Where would we even get the gold?

Whatever commodity we agree upon instantly makes some nations (and individuals) rich, and some poor. It seems insane to me to use ANY commodity to back money.

Your thoughts?

Dennis

[wynderer]

the Reptilians need gold to function properly, the way we need Vit C, for instance

as they have given you their minds, you all also accept that gold is special -- yes, i know it has interesting properties, but so does just about everything in this Universe if you pay attention

[Dennis Leahy]

the Reptilians need gold to function properly, the way we need Vit C, for instance

as they have given you their minds, you all also accept that gold is special -- yes, i know it has interesting properties, but so does just about everything in this Universe if you pay attention
I respect your opinion, but regardless even if all humans have some percentage of reptilian DNA, we don't need gold. If all the gold was taken off-world, we would all still be just fine. Maybe I should have started a new thread, because the questions I'm asking are not the same as the OP.

Dennis

[wynderer]

i think i didn't express myself well --

the questions: Why is gold a treasure? What is the monetary reason it has value?

the only value gold has monetarily is the value all Humans collectively agree it has -- if you all stopped believing in the 'gold standard' , gold would lose its revered status

there was a West African country that used to use cowry shells the way the world uses gold

it's all in the mind, what is valuable or what is not



the Reptilians need gold to function properly, the way we need Vit C, for instance

as they have given you their minds, you all also accept that gold is special -- yes, i know it has interesting properties, but so does just about everything in this Universe if you pay attention
I respect your opinion, but regardless even if all humans have some percentage of reptilian DNA, we don't need gold. If all the gold was taken off-world, we would all still be just fine. Maybe I should have started a new thread, because the questions I'm asking are not the same as the OP.

Dennis

[Dennis Leahy]

i think i didn't express myself well --

the questions: Why is gold a treasure? What is the monetary reason it has value?

the only value gold has monetarily is the value all Humans collectively agree it has -- if you all stopped believing in the 'gold standard' , gold would lose its revered status

there was a West African country that used to use cowry shells the way the world uses gold

it's all in the mind, what is valuable or what is not



the Reptilians need gold to function properly, the way we need Vit C, for instance

as they have given you their minds, you all also accept that gold is special -- yes, i know it has interesting properties, but so does just about everything in this Universe if you pay attention
I respect your opinion, but regardless even if all humans have some percentage of reptilian DNA, we don't need gold. If all the gold was taken off-world, we would all still be just fine. Maybe I should have started a new thread, because the questions I'm asking are not the same as the OP.

Dennis
OK, we agree. Why isn't this obvious? Why are MANY of the people who want to kill the Federal Reserve bound and determined to kill the Federal Reserve and also go to a gold standard?

The Federal Reserve's main money maker and main problem to the world is "fractional reserve lending", not the fact that the money isn't gold-backed. This seems difficult for many people to grasp.

Dennis

[GoodETxSG]

It is a wonderful conductor of Electricity, maybe it has esoteric energy conducting properties we do not know about... so back to alchemy.
And lets not forget about Monotomic Gold applications...

[GoodETxSG]

i think i didn't express myself well --

the questions: Why is gold a treasure? What is the monetary reason it has value?

the only value gold has monetarily is the value all Humans collectively agree it has -- if you all stopped believing in the 'gold standard' , gold would lose its revered status

there was a West African country that used to use cowry shells the way the world uses gold

it's all in the mind, what is valuable or what is not



the Reptilians need gold to function properly, the way we need Vit C, for instance

as they have given you their minds, you all also accept that gold is special -- yes, i know it has interesting properties, but so does just about everything in this Universe if you pay attention
I respect your opinion, but regardless even if all humans have some percentage of reptilian DNA, we don't need gold. If all the gold was taken off-world, we would all still be just fine. Maybe I should have started a new thread, because the questions I'm asking are not the same as the OP.

Dennis
OK, we agree. Why isn't this obvious? Why are MANY of the people who want to kill the Federal Reserve bound and determined to kill the Federal Reserve and also go to a gold standard?

The Federal Reserve's main money maker and main problem to the world is "fractional reserve lending", not the fact that the money isn't gold-backed. This seems difficult for many people to grasp.

Dennis

So the reptilians drink the blood of our children, leech our emotional fear energy and pop gold nuggets like we do vitamins? Not to mention all of the other theories and stories out there. This is all speculation as usual… Why does everything have to go back to the Lizy's? They are not the only group visiting here and not the only ones interested in Gold, though there is plenty of Gold to be mined from asteroids and other uninhabited heavenly bodies. Gold of different molecular arrangements, just like we have other elements on the moon and meteors that is arranged differently (Helium 3 etc..). Looking for demons under doily’s much?

[sdv]

Gold does not tarnish or rust; is malleable and almost indestructable; is a good conductor of electricity ... So, it is a very useful metal.

If there were to be a catastrophe, some gold bars would be useful as with your hands and some rough tools you could make thin gold sheets to cover a roof of a dwelling to make it waterproof!!

But I agree Dennis ... gold is mainly used for jewellery and we don't put as much value on jewellery as we did on our primitive past.

[GoodETxSG]

Gold does not tarnish or rust; is malleable and almost indestructable; is a good conductor of electricity ... So, it is a very useful metal.

If there were to be a catastrophe, some gold bars would be useful as with your hands and some rough tools you could make thin gold sheets to cover a roof of a dwelling to make it waterproof!!

But I agree Dennis ... gold is mainly used for jewellery and we don't put as much value on jewellery as we did on our primitive past.

It is also used on spacecraft to sheild against XRays, Solar winds and other charged particles, very thin sheets give a lot of protection. Very good point, thanks.

[sdv]

If gold protects against cosmic rays and so forth then it would be a very useful metal to have on hand if there is a catastrophe in the near future.

I suppose we have always assumed that temples covered in gold are a sign of wealth and implrtance, but maybe we carry in our collective memory the knowledge that it is a metal that has very good practical uses!

A good excuse to start collecting gold jewellery!

[GoodETxSG]

If gold protects against cosmic rays and so forth then it would be a very useful metal to have on hand if there is a catastrophe in the near future.

I suppose we have always assumed that temples covered in gold are a sign of wealth and implrtance, but maybe we carry in our collective memory the knowledge that it is a metal that has very good practical uses!

A good excuse to start collecting gold jewellery!

Hmmm, never thought of that. Interesting point.

[wynderer]

from an article by David Icke --
Mono-Atomic Gold -- A Secret of Shapeshifting & the Reptilian Control

This substance gave - gives - the reptilians amazing abilities to process information and shapeshift because of the staggering amounts of energy they can hold and process. I am sure the ancient Egyptians, Sumerians, Babylonians, and Phoenicians etc. used this, or more accurately, their ruling elite did, thus giving them a mental potential denied the general population.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/esp_ciencia_oro14.htm

i have not met anyone to date -- any Human -- who has told me of taking mono-atomic gold & the great results

but knowing that Human & Reptilian physiology are not the same , i kind of think you're all being conned w/your fascination w/gold -- going by some of the posts here

Humans don't need to go chasing after alchemical transmutations & secret knowledge -- you all still have the Divine Spark, the ability to connect w/source, the Creator, & receive all you need there

the Reptilians are not in your enviable position

[gripreaper]

Well, with all this "drake" talk lately, the claim is that there is somewhere around 160,000 metric tons of gold reserves on this planet, but the "good guys" are claiming that there is somewhere in the vicinity of 2 to 2.5 million metric tons, based on the bonds which they supposedly hold. That's over ten times the gold known to be around, and quite frankly, I think it has been taken off planet, just like it always has, and that is why the Federal Reserve cannot come up with it to pay back the bonds.

This also segue's back to the origins of mankind and the old original writings, which claim that an off world alien species came here and hybridized us as a slave race to mine gold for them to take off planet. Why would they need gold so bad on their planet that they would traverse the universe till they found this planet with primitive indigenous humans on it, mess with out DNA by adding some of theirs, turn us into a slave race and force us to mine gold for them?

My take, is that gold has alchemical properties of longevity and immortality as well. Legend has it that it's a catalyst in the Philosophers Stone, has atmospheric cleansing and enhancing properties, and can change consciousness and manipulate the energy in the matrix. Heck, why else would it be revered so much by so many for so long?

[RunningDeer]

AMAZING HEALING PROPERTIES:

FFT: Could is be something like hidden in plain sight? TPTW has the answers to health, but not for the 99%? Healing benefits as one of the many reasons to hoard gold?

http://www.crucible.org/gold_colloids.htm

- Some researchers are placing gold on DNA to study the hybrid genetic material in cells, while others are using it to determine how cells respond to toxins, heat and physical stress. Because it is biologically benign and easy to trace, biochemists use gold to form compounds with proteins to create new lifesaving drugs.
- In 1890, the distinguished German bacteriologist Robert Koch won the Nobel Prize for his discovery that compounds made with gold inhibited growth of bacteria.
- Alchemists mixed powdered gold into drinks to "comfort sore limbs," and today, it is widely used in the treatment of rheumatoid arthritis.
- In the 1900s, surgeons actually implanted a $5 gold piece under the skin near an inflamed joint, such as a knee or elbow.
- In China, peasants still cook their rice with a gold coin in order to help replenish gold in their bodies, and fancy Chinese restaurants put 24-karat gold-leaf in their food preparations.
- Gold netting is used in surgery to patch damaged blood vessels, nerves, bones, and membranes.
- Modern physicians inject microscopic gold to help retard prostate cancer in men and women with ovarian cancer are treated with gold solutions.
- Gold vapor lasers seek out and destroy cancerous cells without harming their healthy neighbors or give new life to patients with once inoperable heart conditions and tumors.
- One experimental new gold compound blocks virus replication in infected cells and is being tested for the treatment of AIDS.
- By attaching a molecular marker to a microscopic piece of gold, scientists can follow its movement through the body.

[wynderer]

good find -- but there are many many other suppressed ways of healing ourselves that are just as valuable, if not more so, than gold

also gold is highly symbolic in many Human myths -- & , as i have pointed out elsewhere, the Reptilians control Human minds thru symbols


AMAZING HEALING PROPERTIES:

FFT: Could is be something like hidden in plain sight? TPTW has the answers to health, but not for the 99%?

http://www.crucible.org/gold_colloids.htm

- Some researchers are placing gold on DNA to study the hybrid genetic material in cells, while others are using it to determine how cells respond to toxins, heat and physical stress. Because it is biologically benign and easy to trace, biochemists use gold to form compounds with proteins to create new lifesaving drugs.
- In 1890, the distinguished German bacteriologist Robert Koch won the Nobel Prize for his discovery that compounds made with gold inhibited growth of bacteria.
- Alchemists mixed powdered gold into drinks to "comfort sore limbs," and today, it is widely used in the treatment of rheumatoid arthritis.
- In the 1900s, surgeons actually implanted a $5 gold piece under the skin near an inflamed joint, such as a knee or elbow.
- In China, peasants still cook their rice with a gold coin in order to help replenish gold in their bodies, and fancy Chinese restaurants put 24-karat gold-leaf in their food preparations.
- Gold netting is used in surgery to patch damaged blood vessels, nerves, bones, and membranes.
- Modern physicians inject microscopic gold to help retard prostate cancer in men and women with ovarian cancer are treated with gold solutions.
- Gold vapor lasers seek out and destroy cancerous cells without harming their healthy neighbors or give new life to patients with once inoperable heart conditions and tumors.
- One experimental new gold compound blocks virus replication in infected cells and is being tested for the treatment of AIDS.
- By attaching a molecular marker to a microscopic piece of gold, scientists can follow its movement through the body.

[GlassSteagallfan]

OK, we agree. Why isn't this obvious? Why are MANY of the people who want to kill the Federal Reserve bound and determined to kill the Federal Reserve and also go to a gold standard?

The Federal Reserve's main money maker and main problem to the world is "fractional reserve lending", not the fact that the money isn't gold-backed. This seems difficult for many people to grasp.

Dennis

My opinion is because gold, initially used as a curreny, has since been used as a store of value, and it worked fine until the money changers found ways to swindle people out of the credits they earned. If the economy of the world was truly operating for the development and advancement of mankind, gold would vanish as a store of value and be limited to elementry use.

Since you said MANY in your quote, it means we do not have to discuss the few who believe that value lies in the creative potential of the human mind and money is only a means of exchange (or credit) in a society that uses a science driver approach for the development of the human species.

[gripreaper]

OK, sorry Dennis.

Getting back to topic, yes, the problem with the banksters is that there is no index to currency and fractional reserve leveraging has ballooned the money supply to such an extent, that it has lost it's "intrinsic" value as a measure of assets (or things we need to survive, like potato soup).

So, the idea of going to a gold standard to stop the massive leveraging of the money supply is quite ludicrous, since the elite own all the gold too. Yet, we need to get away from a debt based currency based on having to pay interest, and then have some way to index the currency to the actual true asset base of the planet.

In other words, it is estimated that there is about 75 trillion worth of actual stuff on the planet. So, let's say we have a global debt jubilee, tell the fiat banksters to stick it where the sun don't shine, index the currency to the actual 75 trillion worth of asset value on the planet, and then allow the money supply to grow each year ONLY by the GDP of the planet.

Or, release free energy, move to a new level of consciousness, and eliminate the need for cutting up the planet into little chunks for ownership, and eliminate the need for a "weights and measures" system all together.

[Mozart]

Nice thread, Dennis.


Gold is not scarce. The long-held presumption is that the total amount of gold mined in the history of man (the last 6,000 years, that is) is presumed to be 165,000 metric tons.


But the Asians alone have well over 2,000,000+ metric tons of gold squirreled away, plus all that gold that is still in the ground in massive gold veins that would pop the blood veins of any gold miner, should he realize the sheer amount of gold in those veins running through the Asian countries.


So the dark bastard elites do not have the corner on the market with regards gold; the Asians do.


In the past (and currently) the gold is the basis for the issuance of fiat money. In the very near future, gold will only be a part of the basis of issuance of fiat currency; the primary basis of the issuance of fiat currency will be the productive potential of any society or nation, so the issuance of currency -- interest/usury-free -- would be based on a basket of precious metals, on commodities and the productive potential of any nation.


Enough currency will need to be issued that would neither cause inflation, nor deflation. If we were to use nature as a guide, we can safely issue 2.4 percent more currency every year to fully meet the needs of a productive society, given that nature produces about 2.4 more biomass on average, world-wide.


With the Internet and our current brain power, we can arrive at the correct figures of how much currency that should be issued to support any particular nation. I can go on and on and on, but this is not the subject of the OP, but it adresses the question of why we use gold as the basis of currency.


~Mozart

[Mozart]

Or, release free energy, move to a new level of consciousness, and eliminate the need for cutting up the planet into little chunks for ownership, and eliminate the need for a "weights and measures" system all together.




Yes, Grip, that's the next step in our evolution of wealth, for sure.


Like property ownership, for example. The indigenous Native Americans thought that white man's idea of dividing up land into little pieces of property was absurd; the white man thought that the Native American's wholistic approach to land/Earth was also absurd.


But look at the results:

1) The Native Americans have preserved the sheer beauty of the land in America for thousands of years, leaving it unspoiled and wild. The sheer beauty of the American land boggles anyone's mind when one comprehends what once existed.

It was the holistic approach of the Native Americans that created that.


2) White man has utterly destroyed the beauty of the land of America, to the point of virtual non-recognition of what it is now, compared to what it was then. The environmental destruction is mind-boggling.


So which approach is absurd?


So once we re-claim the secret to power (the monopoly of the issuance of currency and the oligopolies of the management of energy) we can then shift from our current orientation of a monetary-oriented society that cuts up land into properties to being stewards of our Earth with the understanding that each of us are temporary stewards of any resources that we hold/use in our lives.


So it's time to become true stewards of Earth ... a lot like how the Native Americans were in the first place, but with far more people on Earth, which is challenging to do.


~Mozart

[Straker]

In my personal opinion, monatomic gold (ormus) was created and used by the ancients to expand their consciousness and perhaps prolong life.

There are accounts by Petrie of finding large amounts of white powder, at Mount Horeb I believe, where it was possible they had taken the Ark there (or one of the Arks - see my research on the duality of the great pyramid here: http://www.egyptmysteries.org/) and used it to generate this white powder gold.

I read somewhere that it was formed into cakes which only the Pharaohs were allowed to eat. Laurence Gardner's book "Lost Secrets of the Sacred Ark" is a great read.

Straker

[Straker]

Maybe also because there is no lawful money in circulation backed by anything (it's all fiat paper with no intrinsic value), then gold and silver represent the analogue physical dimension, while fiat currency and credit represents the binary digital system/machine world.

Straker

[Dennis Leahy]

Since you said MANY in your quote, it means we do not have to discuss the few who believe that value lies in the creative potential of the human mind and money is only a means of exchange (or credit) in a society that uses a science driver approach for the development of the human species.
Yes, I want the Federal Reserve ended. I want fractional reserve lending ended. I want an extremely low ceiling/maximum percentage for any lending, screw "free market capitalists." I had proposed (in the Reset Button) that the Department of the treasury would loan money at 1%, and that by law, that no one (banks, credit card companies, etc.) could raise the total to over 3%, that is, a 2% maximum profit for lending money - and only an act of Congress (not the banks' mercenaries that are in there now, but "ordinary citizens, not tied to corporations", elected to positions of governance) could change that percentage.

I'm getting off topic on my own off-topic topic, but I could even go for the elimination of private banking, and just have State banks - screw the private banking industry. But I digress, mightily.

So yes, I'm one of the few that wants the Fed and their nasty scam ended, but think the gold standard is a big mistake. I became convinced by Bill Still whose follow up book ("No More National Debt"), after the "Secret of Oz" movie, hit those specific points that makes a gold standard a bad idea. In fact, unless there is something like a monetary retribution or reclaiming "legally" stolen gold from someone, somewhere, Bill Still is among the researchers that says the US does not have even a tiny fraction of the gold or silver it would need to back currency (the US dollar.) Bill instructs that the money should indeed be based on the "faith and trust" of the nation, and that the second critical aspect (after eliminating fractional reserve lending) is the quantity of money in the system, and the strict control over its fluctuation (which is primarily what causes inflation and deflation.) That quantity would be very transparently regulated, and not by the private sector (who would "game" the system using it.)

So I strayed from the topic a bit, but off into the realm of "if not the gold standard, then what?")

I apologize for this messy, blended thread, where I completely changed the topic midstream, and we now have a wide variety of (interesting) conversations going on. I could be glib and say, "It's all gold!"

Dennis

[Space_Ace]

We should just do away with money and move to a resource based economy known as "Venus project". Mass arrests the elites and release the suppressed technology which would be able to provide for the needs of 7 billion and end poverty/hunger.

[learninglight]

i think i didn't express myself well --

the questions: Why is gold a treasure? What is the monetary reason it has value?

the only value gold has monetarily is the value all Humans collectively agree it has -- if you all stopped believing in the 'gold standard' , gold would lose its revered status

there was a West African country that used to use cowry shells the way the world uses gold

it's all in the mind, what is valuable or what is not



the Reptilians need gold to function properly, the way we need Vit C, for instance

as they have given you their minds, you all also accept that gold is special -- yes, i know it has interesting properties, but so does just about everything in this Universe if you pay attention
I respect your opinion, but regardless even if all humans have some percentage of reptilian DNA, we don't need gold. If all the gold was taken off-world, we would all still be just fine. Maybe I should have started a new thread, because the questions I'm asking are not the same as the OP.

Dennis
OK, we agree. Why isn't this obvious? Why are MANY of the people who want to kill the Federal Reserve bound and determined to kill the Federal Reserve and also go to a gold standard?

The Federal Reserve's main money maker and main problem to the world is "fractional reserve lending", not the fact that the money isn't gold-backed. This seems difficult for many people to grasp.

Dennis

Hi Dennis

When i read this ' OK, we agree. Why isn't this obvious? Why are MANY of the people who want to kill the Federal Reserve bound and determined to kill the Federal Reserve and also go to a gold standard?' the first thing that popped in my mind was 'controll' Go to a gold standard they still have control.
Wipe out the fractional reserve lending they lose nothing as it doesn't exist anyway, go to gold stanard which they have by the bucket loads ( and if they dont have any how would we know) dahh dahhh win win for them again ( thats if i've got my head round this properly)

sharon

[Rantaak]

Well, I heard that the Nephilim originally came to Earth to mine its gold - they needed to powder it and pump it into the atmosphere of their home planet in order to sustain their lives, as they had brought upon their planet similar catastrophes to what we have done to our mother earth. Something about artificial sunlight being reflected back onto the planet from the atmosphere. They eventually grew tired of mining so they created (with the help of the Sirians and the blessings of the Whales and Dolphins who were the previous progenitors of our planet) humans as a slave race to do the mining for them. And look how far we've come since that fateful day when we partook of the fruit of the tree which made us like the Nephilim.

Charles mentioned this in his interview, I believe. Humanity has taken many unexpected and magnificent turns and no one knows exactly what will happen in the near future. We shall see!

This may play a role in what's going on with the gold today. Many believe they are still orchestrating aspects of the genetic experiment of humanity, behind the veil so to speak.

[Dennis Leahy]

Sharon, that's exactly my thinking. Gold-backed money is the "back door" for the elites to remain in control of all money.

Our Programming?


Money backed by gold is valuable
Money not backed by gold is worthless (even though the US has been doing this for 48 years)

I'm not sure if the programming runs deep in people's brains because it was deliberately implanted there by the "elite", or if it just has a long history that we have not really thoroughly examined, to dismiss the notion of gold as "money" yet.

Reality:


Money backed by gold (or any precious metal, or bushels of wheat, or head of cattle) is subject to the manipulation of that commodity
Money is an agreement. It has value as an agreement - and whether we agree that a piece of paper, or some shells, or a stick, or a piece of metal represents our agreement, it is still an agreement.
The US government has almost no gold. Many nations have no gold.
If money is backed by gold, then if the US government got a large amount of gold, or spent a large amount of gold (sending it to another nation), the US money supply would fluctuate, so we would experience inflation or deflation.
What if China screams "eureka" and unveils a few million metric tons of gold, either previously hidden or in a giant vein? Now what is your dollar or ruble or yen or dinar worth?

(Substitute your own country for "US" and see what it means for your nation. But at the moment - precariously - the US dollar is the world's "reserve" currency.

Want to flip-out many of the "free market" folks? (The ones that don't really want a free market, they just don't care who gets exploited to get them the cheap goods they want.) Tie the value of money to a human work-hour. That is, (for example) 1 work hour equals $10 US dollars, and however that translates/converts in each nations currency, $10 US dollars worth would be the equivalent of one local hour's work.

Your Chinese-made iPod just went from $200 to $500. You OK with that? I am. I am a member of the human race, and I want to stop exploiting "cheap labor" anywhere and everywhere in the world. Screw the corporate profit margins and dividends - they really equate to human suffering. If the world's currency/currency exchange rate was really going to be "reset" wouldn't it finally be time to stop the exploitation of humans that happened to be in what are currently seen as "third-world" countries? The capitalists are the only ones to "lose", and all of humanity would stop and revalue the work of a person anywhere to have some high degree of equivalency. (Actually capitalists would just raise prices - they really would not lose by making sure humanity wins.)

Oh, there I go again. Maybe I should change the title of the thread again. :~)

If there really are health properties to the (ormus?) white powder variant of gold, great. It will also make superb wiring that will never corrode in zero-point energy generators. Dangle a bit from your ears, if you want. But don't back "money" with gold.

For those Libertarians here on Avalon, who resonate with the idea of money backed by gold (as Ron Paul is preaching, and as Drake - who sounds libertarian to me - is saying "they" intend to implement), well, you may want to check with the major modern researcher of the pros and cons of money backed by gold: Bill Still. Oh yeah, he also happens to be running for US president as a Libertarian, so don't think that gold-backed money is a Libertarian platform.

Dennis

[Mozart]

I had proposed (in the Reset Button) that the Department of the treasury would loan money at 1%, and that by law, that no one (banks, credit card companies, etc.) could raise the total to over 3%, that is, a 2% maximum profit for lending money




Dennis ~


You CANNOT leave the door open to any sort of interest/usury being charged for money, EVER! The laws can always be changed, then higher and higher interest can be charged. No, no interest can be charged, EVER.


Money can have flat fees attached to it, so that the issuing entity can make a small bit of money -- seigniorage -- on the currency created. In a free society a free market is a must for currencies, as a monopoly on currencies cannot be allowed.


The term "Negotiable Instruments" is a key one to understand. Google it and learn all that you can about it.


What I have long dreamed to do was to propose that every Republic state in the Union to have its own issuing power of creating money to support the people. The issuing state can have at least one bank in every single county, with more banks in higher-populated counties, of course, and it would be through that bank that the common currency can be obtained.


Each state would issue currency that can have on one side of it to have the exact-same currency of all other Republic Union states, then on the flip side of it to have artwork that's unique for that issuing state. Flat fees can be charged.


But NO INTEREST. Ever.


Take a look at the history of the IRS income tax:

http://ntu.org/tax-basics/history-of-federal-individual-1.html


I rest my case.


~Mozart

[Carmody]

I cannot recommend highly enough, the book," Bablyon's Banksters: The Alchemy of Deep Physics, High Finance and Ancient Religion" By Joseph P. Farrell.

http://ecimages.kobobooks.com/Image.ashx?imageID=HOtU4nom4kmgL55wz4p3og&Type=Full

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNgFTWxUwlo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuSpgY2JzHE


This is not an illiterate recommendation, far from it. This is a very well informed recommendation.

all of the questions, regarding the depth of them, that is in the given mind that is perusing this thread..all those aspects will be given a very clear and well documented frameworks upon which to hang and thus ruminate as to the realities in front of us.

Meaning, the backdrop of a decision, action or musing comes from the depth of understanding of the history of the given situation.

And in that, this book delivers, clearly, without bias.

One must understand that this given single book has a backdrop of a good what, 5-6 other books, before it came into being? Each researched and documented on a quality and structure level that the entire alternative news and awareness crowd has a great lack of familiarity with.

[Dennis Leahy]

I had proposed (in the Reset Button) that the Department of the treasury would loan money at 1%, and that by law, that no one (banks, credit card companies, etc.) could raise the total to over 3%, that is, a 2% maximum profit for lending money


Dennis ~


You CANNOT leave the door open to any sort of interest/usury being charged for money, EVER! The laws can always be changed, then higher and higher interest can be charged. No, no interest can be charged, EVER.


Money can have flat fees attached to it, so that the issuing entity can make a small bit of money -- seigniorage -- on the currency created. In a free society a free market is a must for currencies, as a monopoly on currencies cannot be allowed....

~Mozart
If there is no interest at all, (but a fee is permitted ) - kinda sounds like the Islamic banking system, which seems to me to be semantics, not money loaned without "interest."

The Reset Button (which is moot anyway) has essays in Phase II (Part 2) that would be required for discussion by candidates, not mandates. The discussion of monetary reform was intended as a talking point to see where candidates stand on the issue. The essay recommended the very low percentage cap as a major step towards removal all of the power of international banks. Quite frankly, that alone is a monumental change. Can you imagine how pissed off the credit card companies who now charge 25%, 29% would be if they were only allowed to charge 3% and had to pay the federal government 1% of it!

Again, if semantics is employed to say there is no interest, but there is a fee which just happens to work out to a set percentage of the total, then I would want that percentage that the "fee" is based upon to be VERY low.

Dennis
p.s. I will do research on negotiable instruments, but I can tell you that far beyond The Reset Button or anything likely to be implemented is where I would place my ideals. I have not spent the time visualizing what Wade Frazier sees as no need for money at all, with the implementation of global free-energy, so where I am at so far in my idealism (they I don't usually even bother to think about, much less write about) would not include any banking or any trading or any other way to financially manipulate a pile of money into a bigger pile of money. The words "let my money work for me" makes my skin crawl, and I want to hand that person a hoe or a pipe wrench or a paintbrush and tell him to grow his money by doing some work.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


I cannot recommend highly enough, the book," Bablyon's Banksters: The Alchemy of Deep Physics, High Finance and Ancient Religion" By Joseph P. Farrell.
...

And in that, this book delivers, clearly, without bias. ...

.
Can you summarize your understanding of the best monetary reform for right now, and whether it does or does not include gold (or other commodity) backing "money?"

Thanks!

Dennis

[gripreaper]

Want to flip-out many of the "free market" folks? (The ones that don't really want a free market, they just don't care who gets exploited to get them the cheap goods they want.) Tie the value of money to a human work-hour. That is, (for example) 1 work hour equals $10 US dollars, and however that translates/converts in each nations currency, $10 US dollars worth would be the equivalent of one local hour's work.

This is the true measure of value actually, and is truly what is being exploited and transferred into the hands of the few. It's our energy, as on the quantum level, that is the basic unit.



The term "Negotiable Instruments" is a key one to understand. Google it and learn all that you can about it.

Yes, negotiable instruments “ARE” money. Once you put your signature on something, it is negotiated into a security or a bond, or fractionalized, leveraged, monetized by taking it to the Federal Reserve discount window and bringing new debt instruments into commerce. This expansion, at interest, WITHOUT the interest being created, exacerbates the problem of competition based on scarcity and the cannibalization of the planet to survive, all the while those at the top get to vampire the energy of all of the slave race on the planet who are chasing a fiat debt monetary system which leaves them with nothing, and the guys at the top with everything.



You CANNOT leave the door open to any sort of interest/usury being charged for money, EVER! The laws can always be changed, and then higher and higher interest can be charged. No, no interest can be charged, EVER.

Absolutely correct. If we are still too unconscious to move out of monetary “weights and measures” systems, then at least fix the one we have and eliminate usury.

[mexrph]

Gold and silver have evolved over the ages as the best medium of exchange and backing currency with gold and silver are the best ways of keeping governments from inflating their currency to worthlessness. Prior to 1965 we could take a silver certificate to a bank and get a silver dollar. That silver dollar today is worth $30. Prior to 1933 we could take a gold certificate to a bank and get a $20 gold piece. That $20 gold piece is currently worth $2000. Before you criticise gold and silver, please study the history of money.

[Dennis Leahy]

Gold and silver have evolved over the ages as the best medium of exchange and backing currency with gold and silver are the best ways of keeping governments from inflating their currency to worthlessness. Prior to 1965 we could take a silver certificate to a bank and get a silver dollar. That silver dollar today is worth $30. Prior to 1933 we could take a gold certificate to a bank and get a $20 gold piece. That $20 gold piece is currently worth $2000. Before you criticise gold and silver, please study the history of money.
Hi mexrph,

I just finished reading "No More National Debt" which is not specifically the history of money, but does go into that a bit. The movie "The Secret of Oz" has quite a bit about the history of money as well. In No More National Debt, Bill Still makes a good, logical case for NOT backing money with gold - and that was a change from his previous stance, due to his research. Seems valid to me. He makes a compelling case in that book, and if you still don't like the idea, the question remains: where in the hell is the US going to get say, 50 trillion dollars worth of gold to back our money? Where is Costa Rica going to get any gold at all? (Think of how truly rich the nation of Costa Rica is. It's a paradise. But if they have no gold, they cannot print money that could be traded with other nations?)

I'm not criticizing gold and silver. I love gold and silver. They are very awesome metals (I took 5 semesters of metalsmithing!) If I remember correctly, silver conducts electricity the best of all metals (but it oxidizes), so gold-plated silver wire sounds like the perfect answer to permanent motors/generators to me.

Yes, gold and silver are more valuable now than 40 years ago. That is by inflation, mostly. And the fact that they have any value at all is by agreement, right? Think of the value of a ton of organic black dirt full of soil microorganisms.

A good loaf of bread that was $0.50 in 1970 is now $4.65 - that's up 930%
An ounce of silver was $5, now it is $30 - that's up 600%
Oil was $15/barrel; now $85 - 567%
Acre of farm land, 1970 to now: $420 to $6800 - up 1620%
US minimum wage 1970 and 2012: $1.60 and now $7.25 - that's up 453%

All of these numbers are abstract. The dollars are worth less and less (buying power) so it appears that the commodities value is rising.

Pretty much anything you go back and get in your time machine is more "valuable" now, but is that really the devaluation of the buying power of a dollar, or the commodity value rising - or both?

These are agreements that we have made. Or maybe a better way to say it is that the Financial Elite have eroded the value of money causing inflation, ad infinitum. Inflattion happened even during times we had gold-backed money, so the backing did not cause or prevent inflation. Inflation is caused by "printing" more and more and more - making every dollar worth-less.

Dennis