Peace begins when expectation ends.

[Tony]

Peace begins when expectation – and anticipation – ends

These are merely projections into the future, about something one hopes will or will not happen.
One can have an aspiration, but with no attachment.

However, I'll tell you a little secret!
If one's motivation is right
If one's conduct is right
If one's discipline is right
If one's concentration is right
If one's patience is right
If one's meditation is right...everything will turn out all right.
But maybe not as you expected!

If you hold on to a 'you', you will be holding on to a fixed outcome.
If you can lose the 'you' for a moment, a new possibility may arise.
What you thought was a direction may be merely a stepping stone - part of the journey!
As your understanding refines, so does the journey.

Don't fixate too much.
Enemies can become friends and friends can become enemies.
Gradually, all will become one taste. No difference.

Do your best...and let go.
In that spontaneous moment, something magical can arise.

This is perfect.
That is perfect.
Perfect comes from perfect.
Take perfect from perfect: the remainder is perfect.
May peace and peace and peace be everywhere.

Then wish for a hundred years of benefitting others.

[MorningSong]

Hope you don't mind me posting this, Pie'n'eal...but I thought it fit in:

bBRPh5qjg00

[Davidallany]

Tony,
I think that anticipation from a confused state of mind is the cause of so many problems in people's lives. If people's perception is aberrated, then rationality becomes overwhelmed by emotions, rendering the person ineffective, more confused and unaware.
The ego has hijacked the entire person for the duration of the situation, and upon loosing its grip, left a deposit of disempowerment, after taste of bitter emotions and discontentment.

My current solution to this problem is treating events as though I were dreaming or stepping out of a situation and just becoming an observant, most situations are not actual life threatening

[jjjones]

expectation is rising to fall. first of all one needs to know who they are and who they are not. when this has been attained, acceptance of self and others begins and leads one into greater awareness, understanding, forgiveness, unity, perception etc.... namaste, love and peace universally :)

[mekiac]

(...) My current solution to this problem is treating events as though I were dreaming or stepping out of a situation and just becoming an observant, most situations are not actual life threatening

I do that too.
Whenever I feel disconnected or uneasy I like to say to myself : It is a dream, it is an illusion. Not in a convincing way, but rather as a reminder.
This usually brings me back to the now and to a state of mindfulness.

One can be at peace with a situation or the circumstances.
As long as there is hope or fear left, one is not really at peace with the present.
Ones mind is in the future and no peace can be found there.

[TraineeHuman]

It’s interesting to look at the original meaning of the word “expect”. “Ex” is Latin for “out of”, while “pect..” means “the heart”. So, the original meaning of “expect” was something like:

going out of touch with where your heart is truly at (and out of touch with where it is happy)

[Tony]

Keeping up a happy, precise, high vibration will take all the energy we can muster, this coming year.

We are now ready!!! Love is in the air!!!!!!!

[Davidallany]

Keeping up a happy, precise, high vibration will take all the energy we can muster, this coming year.

We are now ready!!! Love is in the air!!!!!!!
Tony,
In monastic life they push the boundaries of energy depletion to the max, in an attempt to break the barriers and expand it to new and larger areas. The secret to doing this is to adhere to daily strict routines and rituals. Throwing in an hour of meditation every early morning and night, visualization techniques for raising Feelings of compassion will help too. The best techniques in visualizing compassion are those described by the Dalai Lama in some of his books.
I strongly suggest to all those interested in expanding their personal energy to get initiated by a Tibetan Lama in the following areas:
1- Medicine Buddha 2- White Tara 3- Vajrasattva and the three wrathfuls.
These will take the person to a new heights of emotional stability, increased energy and clarity.

[Ineffable Hitchhiker]

How serendipitous!
I was talking to friends about this over the "festive" season...our conclusion was the same...

The less expectations you have, the less you will feel let down.


"Do your best...and let go."
Yes! That's it.




Thank you David for bumping this thread. :)

[Tony]

Keeping up a happy, precise, high vibration will take all the energy we can muster, this coming year.

We are now ready!!! Love is in the air!!!!!!!
Tony,
In monastic life they push the boundaries of energy depletion to the max, in an attempt to break the barriers and expand it to new and larger areas. The secret to doing this is to adhere to daily strict routines and rituals. Throwing in an hour of meditation every early morning and night, visualization techniques for raising Feelings of compassion will help too. The best techniques in visualizing compassion are those described by the Dalai Lama in some of his books.
I strongly suggest to all those interested in expanding their personal energy to get initiated by a Tibetan Lama in the following areas:
1- Medicine Buddha 2- White Tara 3- Vajrasattva and the three wrathfuls.
These will take the person to a new heights of emotional stability, increased energy and clarity.

Dear David

Here, we are entering into the arena of Vajrayana practice, which is basically Guru Yoga – the path of devotion. Devotion - in this context – means a deep appreciation and longing. This, as you say, increases the energy field to receive blessings. It is a more direct path.

Practising Guru Yoga is, as you know, a matter of finding a deity which one feels in tune with, and which reflects a quality of one's own temperament. This is not an easy path for westerners as it's not part of our culture, but it gradually enhances one's practice. It has to go together with renunciation, and can be undertaken by monastics or lay people.

In a way, the title of this thread - “Peace beings when expectation ends” - could be said to describe renunciation.

Would you agree that some groundwork is needed before people think of entering into the commitments entailed in taking such empowerments?

Tony

[crested-duck]

Thanks Tony, Happy 2012- I always find your posts very thought provoking in a good way. What really jumped out at me was:" Everything will turn out all right,but maybe not as you expected." also"As your understanding refines,so does the journey."-- I think it's a good thing to look at the definition of (refined):1 free from impurities and waste matter 2-improve or perfect 3-free or become free of what is course or uncouth-- I also keep thinking about the phrase" he who learns must suffer the pain of knowing". Also I feel there is definately something in the air, but can not quite figure it out yet.

[Davidallany]

Would you agree that some groundwork is needed before people think of entering into the commitments entailed in taking such empowerments?

Hi Tony,
What do you mean by ground work ?
I can't assume knowing the western mind, however, I think it's not about being western or eastern, but rather having enough karmic (used due to linguistic limitation) connection, having gone through practices and having seeked those who are wise in different life times, to get transmissions. Which is what really matters.

In my current comprehension of our human reality, it's not even possible to meet a Lama or any other teacher, without great and very strong intentions, denoting having enough karmic power and less aberrations.
In other words, we could talk for an entire week to a person A about the very real benefits of wakefulness and the other numerous things, but if person A has no right karmic connections, then it's like using complicated mathematical equations to communicate with a none mathematician.
I think that anyone interested or even slightly curious should take the plunge, there is no harm in doing so, at least one can plant a seed for something.

[minkton]

I also believe that our karmic condition = everything.

We can clear negative karma, we can burn through it, with loving kindness and givingness.

Talking to someone for a week about wakefulness etc may do nothing, indeed. But generating loving kindness toward them for the same amount of time might well have a decisive impact.

[Tony]

Would you agree that some groundwork is needed before people think of entering into the commitments entailed in taking such empowerments?

Hi Tony,
What do you mean by ground work ?
I can't assume knowing the western mind, however, I think it's not about being western or eastern, but rather having enough karmic (used due to linguistic limitation) connection, having gone through practices and having seeked those who are wise in different life times, to get transmissions. Which is what really matters.

In my current comprehension of our human reality, it's not even possible to meet a Lama or any other teacher, without great and very strong intentions, denoting having enough karmic power and less aberrations.
In other words, we could talk for an entire week to a person A about the very real benefits of wakefulness and the other numerous things, but if person A has no right karmic connections, then it's like using complicated mathematical equations to communicate with a none mathematician.
I think that anyone interested or even slightly curious should take the plunge, there is no harm in doing so, at least one can plant a seed for something.

Dear David

The ground work is the preparation. There are 3 'vehicles' in Tibetan Buddhism that one goes through - Hinayana, Mahayana and Vajrayana (people can look these up if they want to know more). Any one of these could suit a person's temperament/attitude.

Traditionally, in the Tibetan system, to engage in Vajrayana practice, one has to first go through what is called the Ngondro - the Prelimary Practices.
These are 4 x 100,000 practices of preparation and purification before you embark on certain deity practices (although there are certain deity practices
that anyone can do without completing the Ngondro or having empowerments - Chenrezi and Green Tara are a couple of these).
Before engaging on a deity practice a lama may ask, which deity attracts you - it could just be as simple as being attracted to the sound of the deity's name.

There are empowerments being given all over the world and one can get a flavour of what it's all about, and receive blessings.
I agree - these empowerments can sow seeds. You're right that people should follow their karmic connections…but this can lead into imaginary fantasies
rather than grounded practice that require much dedication and perseverance. That is why we first go throughout the Ngondro.

There are currently 1000 westerners coming to the end of a 3 year retreat (during which all the yanas are practised) in France: some will go on to do 12 year or lifetime retreats.

Yidam/diety practice - as well as seeing thoughts and emotions in a different light - enhances one's experience after death.
This is done in order to recognise the appearances of lights and images as one's own projections, and so eliminate fear and confusion.
This is also why repetition in practice is so important, so that in the confused state after death, one may more easily remember one's true essence.

Vajrayana practice could be seen as a backup system. Ultimately it is all about recognising the true nature of mind.
This is why we study Mahamudra/Dzogchen: for the moment of death and just afterwards.
If that fails, we rely on the Yidam practices.
If that fails…we rely on calling on the Lord of Compassion to guide us through to the next incarnation.
If that fails........we have to rely on our own good karma and altruistic intent.

Tony

¤=[Post Update]=¤


I also believe that our karmic condition = everything.

We can clear negative karma, we can burn through it, with loving kindness and givingness.

Talking to someone for a week about wakefulness etc may do nothing, indeed. But generating loving kindness toward them for the same amount of time might well have a decisive impact.

Absolutely right!! Thank you.

Tony

[modwiz]

Tony, this piece of freedom is so important. I feel the two most important spiritual teachings come from Jesus and Buddha. Forgiveness cleans out your past which pollutes your present and non expectation, which deals with the future that always ends up affecting your present. Mastering these two simple wisdoms, through mindfulness and application of them will change your relationship to the Universe and put you in control of your life.

[Mulder]

Peace begins when expectation – and anticipation – ends

These are merely projections into the future, about something one hopes will or will not happen.
One can have an aspiration, but with no attachment.

However, I'll tell you a little secret!
If one's motivation is right
If one's conduct is right
If one's discipline is right
If one's concentration is right
If one's patience is right
If one's meditation is right...everything will turn out all right.
But maybe not as you expected!

If you hold on to a 'you', you will be holding on to a fixed outcome.
If you can lose the 'you' for a moment, a new possibility may arise.
What you thought was a direction may be merely a stepping stone - part of the journey!
As your understanding refines, so does the journey.

I disagree that peace begins when expectations and anticipations end as they can never end, but can be modified/changed towards more peace. I also don't think that one's motivation, concentration, patience, etc. are important because Hitler still killed millions of people with intense patience, motivation, etc. So I'm saying if other powerful people want war, then they will trample other people's values no matter how good they are. There is no possibility of peace while the world is as it is now no matter how much I change myself. I see your point, it's just not something that all people will adopt.

[Tony]

Peace begins when expectation – and anticipation – ends

These are merely projections into the future, about something one hopes will or will not happen.
One can have an aspiration, but with no attachment.

However, I'll tell you a little secret!
If one's motivation is right
If one's conduct is right
If one's discipline is right
If one's concentration is right
If one's patience is right
If one's meditation is right...everything will turn out all right.
But maybe not as you expected!

If you hold on to a 'you', you will be holding on to a fixed outcome.
If you can lose the 'you' for a moment, a new possibility may arise.
What you thought was a direction may be merely a stepping stone - part of the journey!
As your understanding refines, so does the journey.

I disagree that peace begins when expectations and anticipations end as they can never end, but can be modified/changed towards more peace. I also don't think that one's motivation, concentration, patience, etc. are important because Hitler still killed millions of people with intense patience, motivation, etc. So I'm saying if other powerful people want war, then they will trample other people's values no matter how good they are. There is no possibility of peace while the world is as it is now no matter how much I change myself. I see your point, it's just not something that all people will adopt.

Hello Mulder.

Point taken.
But this is about changing the view of yourself.
Knowledge can be used for good or evil.

Tony

[Ineffable Hitchhiker]

Hi Mulder,
I would respectfully like to disagree with you. :)
Hitler did not kill millions of people. People killed people.
I think wars will not end until people stop following idols and ideals.
I have no expectation of this ever happening though, it's been like this for centuries. I guess the best one can do is...end the war where you are.

[Providence]

So poetic, wonderful post Tony!

And I so agree, speaking from my own experience, expectation and anticipation (which is loosely based upon expectation) had been my downfall for many years. Peace and happiness eluded me. However I began down a road of discovery concerning the philosophy of Buddhism a few years ago and over time I have begun to not only absorb the concepts of attachment and expectations, but to actualize them in my life on a very consistent basis. Now when I fall into the same pitfalls of the past, and yes I still do sometimes, I not only know why, but I also know how to overcome and return to my peaceful and happy state.

Very timely post Tony, thank you!

Peace

[jorr lundstrom]

Well, it seems to me that expectations are the mother of disappointments.

Expectations seems like a way to try controlling the future, which we of

course are not capable of. In this moment we all have wot we call our

lives behind us. No, guarantee for another moment. Avoiding expecations

probably wount bring peace to the world at large, but it makes peace

possible in this moment. LOL



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4w6GWRyeIU


ROFLOL

[Davidallany]

This is also why repetition in practice is so important, so that in the confused state after death, one may more easily remember one's true essence.

Tony, how do you know, if I may inquire, that repetitive practice can help the practitioner in the Bardo? Without a frame of reference.
Do you have a previous Bardo recollection from past lives or is it something you read or heard from someone?

[RedeZra]

i wish someone told me the secret to spiritual life when i was young but it is never too late to learn it

the secret is this : a Name of Lord God on the tounge ; )


"Worship Govinda, worship Govinda, worship Govinda, Oh fool! Other than chanting the Lord's names, there is no other way to cross the life's ocean" - Adi Shankara (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adi_Shankara) in Bhaja Govindam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhaja_Govindam)

"pray without ceasing," - Paul in 1 Thessalonians 5:17

"Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner." - the Jesus Prayer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Prayer) esteemed and advocated within the Eastern Orthodox church

"Repeat Lord Krishna's Name and save men by making them also repeat Krishna's Name." - Chaitanya Mahaprabhu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaitanya_Mahaprabhu)

"Have faith! Reciting the Name of the Lord is not the first, but the last stage of spiritual practice!" - Haidakhan Babaji (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haidakhan_Babaji)


some spiritual children might say this Name is valid and that Name is not valid

but God has come several times to several cultures with several Names and several Forms


see the unity in the teachings from God and forget the minute differences

[Tony]

Tony, this piece of freedom is so important. I feel the two most important spiritual teachings come from Jesus and Buddha. Forgiveness cleans out your past which pollutes your present and non expectation, which deals with the future that always ends up affecting your present. Mastering these two simple wisdoms, through mindfulness and application of them will change your relationship to the Universe and put you in control of your life.

Hello Modwiz

It's interesting that you should mention Jesus and Buddha and forgiveness. I was pondering on what you said...and how these two teachers might connect.
The words “forgiveness”, for me, is letting go.
It doesn't negate the wrong that was done, and that person will have to face the consequences.
It doesn't mean that one accepts the wrong that was done – but one doesn't compound it by holding on to it.
Therefore, it may give the perceived wrong-doer some time and space in which to reflect on what they did.

Generally, we tend to think of the big misdemeanours that we encounter, but in everyday interactions, there are always little 'discrepancies' between viewpoints, and just letting go in that moment brings some space and peace to the situation.
One notices the ego clinging in someone else, and forgives by just letting go – and thereby one lets go of one's own ego clinging to that judgement!

I know that, in giving someone space, enriching seeds have been sown and I hope there will be a fruitful outcome in the future...is that expectation??! LOL
But I have to forgive myself and let go!

Tony

[Mulder]

Hi Mulder,
I would respectfully like to disagree with you. :)
Hitler did not kill millions of people. People killed people.
I think wars will not end until people stop following idols and ideals.
I have no expectation of this ever happening though, it's been like this for centuries. I guess the best one can do is...end the war where you are.

Hi, I'm fine with you disagreeing as I don't want the world to be filled with clones of me! It's true that people killed people, but in the Nuremberg trials all the Nazi's said they were "following orders" so since Hitler was giving the orders, then I can say Hitler killed millions of people. Also, Germans turned a blind eye to the deaths of Jews. Every German knew the Jews were treated terribly when Nazi's stood outside their shops, then smashed their shops, then confiscated their shops & property. The farmers who lived next to Auschwitz or Dachau all said they "didn't know" about the halocaust - strangely trains came in full of people, but left empty so where did they think all the Jews went to?
So I'm saying that I can become the most spiritual person in the world, but if most other people choose to be evil, or choose to turn a blind eye then there won't be Justice or Peace no matter what I do. But at the same time I have to start somewhere so starting with myself is the best place.

[Tony]

This is also why repetition in practice is so important, so that in the confused state after death, one may more easily remember one's true essence.

Tony, how do you know, if I may inquire, that repetitive practice can help the practitioner in the Bardo? Without a frame of reference.
Do you have a previous Bardo recollection from past lives or is it something you read or heard from someone?

Hello David

I know, in moments of confusion, that the words of teachings or the experience of practice some to my rescue, to clarify a situation.
Quite often when I suddenly awaken from sleep, I find my mind repeating mantras – generally Om mani padme hung.
Repetition means something has been practised and is there at the fingertips - second nature – to remind one of one's first nature!

I have been to many Bardo teachings where the whole practice is a rehearsal for death, so that one can recognise whatever appears as a projection of mind.
It is actually the same as the living state in that sense. There is dream practice, where the dream is recognised as a dream.
The more one practices, the more benefit there is in daily life, in the interaction with others.
In fact, in the symbolic teacher, everything is a trigger, because every thing is a reminder of the non-reality in reality.
The frame of reference is the recognition that everything is an illusion, and not to fixate on them.

No, I don't remember my past lives or experiences in the Bardo (but I did have very strange dreams when I was young...), but there are indications of one's intentions and motivations within this life to give an indication that one has done certain things before.

Tony

[RedeZra]

The words “forgiveness”, for me, is letting go.
It doesn't negate the wrong that was done, and that person will have to face the consequences.


hi pie'n'eal

the beauty in giving and reciving forgiveness is that the particular hurt and karma connected with it is erased

and so there is no ill will and therefore no consequences will erupt to revenge

[Tony]

The words “forgiveness”, for me, is letting go.
It doesn't negate the wrong that was done, and that person will have to face the consequences.


hi pie'n'eal

the beauty in giving and reciving forgiveness is that the particular hurt and karma connected with it is erased

and so there is no ill will and therefore no consequences will erupt to revenge

Dear ReZra

To be honest, even with forgiving ourselves there is bound to be a little residue left in the back of our mind...when our button is pushed, the habitual patterning will stick its head out and we get the feeling of “Here we go again!”. But maybe it won't be quite so strong, if we are aware of it.

Gradually, this hurt will heal – we have been carrying these wounds around with us for some time - and we may even recognise that this hurt, or wound, never actually existed in the first place.
It was all in our mind.

All the best to you
Tony

[RedeZra]

hi pie'n'eal

the beauty in giving and reciving forgiveness is that the particular hurt and karma connected with it is erased

and so there is no ill will and therefore no consequences will erupt to revenge

Dear ReZra

To be honest, even with forgiving ourselves there is bound to be a little residue left in the back of our mind...when our button is pushed, the habitual patterning will stick its head out and we get the feeling of “Here we go again!”. But maybe it won't be quite so strong, if we are aware of it.



yes dear pie'n'eal we might have to forgive ten times or more as we more or less unconsciously act as you say from habitual patterning

that is why a person or ourselves might hurt us ten times and each time come to seek our forgiveness

if the person who has done us wrong does not seek our forgiveness or from God then there will be consequences for that person whether we forgive or not

there is no forgiveness without the act of seeking forgiveness and furthermore there is no mercy without repentance


Regards

ReZra ; )

[greybeard]

"I am the totality all of it" so say the enlightened.
Jesus said "The Father and I are one"

In my state of ignorance there is a dilemma

I believe there is only One (God)

So who is there to forgive?

A Course in Miracles--- states we never left God, our separation is but a thought.
Expectation is of the future--- there is never a problem or lack in the Eternal moment.
Thought drags us backwards and forwards in time but only if we identify with the thought that there is a separate self looking for peace or forgiveness or anything else.
So peace does begin (in fact it is always present) when we stop expecting it to pop up in the future.

As always Tony you promote good discussion.

On more "thought" and I know it has been addressed countless times.
Freewill is unlikely to exist when there is only One without a second???? Thats a question.

It seems to me there are ascending levels of understanding so one must be true to the relative class one finds oneself in.
No class better than another just different. (lessons)

So in essence, at one level it is good to forgive, at another level it is seen that there is no separate individual who did anything that needs forgiveness.
Eckhart Tolle said "There never was anyone there to do anything to you"

"Acts happen, deeds are done but there is no individual doer there of."
I think thats a miss quote of the Buddha--- Tony will know the correct version-- so please correct.

Regards Chris

[RedeZra]

So in essence, at one level it is good to forgive, at another level it is seen that there is no separate individual who did anything that needs forgiveness.
Eckhart Tolle said "There never was anyone there to do anything to you"


surly someone slaughters steals decieves and so sins or misses the mark because of ignorance pride vanity greed jealousy

if everybody were enlightened then there would be no pains sins or sorrows


it does not help us one bit to intellectually know that only God Is and still continue sinning with an excuse of we don't exist


life is the lila of God and only God Is but life is a gift of God and so is free will


if we secretly nurture a deathwish for our soul then sinning will spot and tear the soul

til the soul is beyond repair and God must deconstruct it


then it will be as we never existed

[greybeard]

So in essence, at one level it is good to forgive, at another level it is seen that there is no separate individual who did anything that needs forgiveness.
Eckhart Tolle said "There never was anyone there to do anything to you"


surly someone slaughters steals decieves and so sins or misses the mark because of ignorance pride vanity greed jealousy

if everybody were enlightened then there would be no pains sins or sorrows


it does not help us one bit to intellectually know that only God Is and still continue sinning with an excuse of we don't exist


life is the lila of God and only God Is but life is a gift of God and so is free will


if we secretly nurture a deathwish for our soul then sinning will spot and tear the soul

til the soul is beyond repair and God must deconstruct it


then it will be as we never existed

I cant say that I know anything for sure Redezra.
I think that if everyone became enlightened then the play would come to an end--- this chapter anyway.

It is possible that creation and evolution of consciousness are actually the same thing.

The ego could have started of as a survival mechanism.
Lets face it we and many animals would not have survived this far with out living on the death of other life.
Then along came the herbivore --- cows for example.
They munch grass then fertilize it.
Seems a good deal-- smiling.

I/we dont exist as a separate entity but there is no denying we exist.
You are right though that hearing "only God is" does not help--- knowing may well be different.
One does not hurt oneself.
The individual needs time to exist.
So we are really back to Peace begins when time (expectation) ends.
May it be soon smiling.
Till then "Love all Serve All."

Regards Chris

[minkton]

Actually it just occurred to me .. anyone who wants to do work on untethering their expectations in human relationships would benefit from getting hold of the work of Byron Katie. You can see her on youtube and she has several books available. Her work is entirely based on dropping expectations, seeing through them.

On a very personal level I find it intensely challenging : I do have expectations of not being lied to... being repeatedly lied to is something that disturbs my peace, definitely. This thread, and recalling Byron Katie, prompted me to realise I need to do some work on that at the moment.

:gaah:

[Tony]

If a thing is true, it can never not be true.
If our pure essence is constant, it can never not be constant.
If our true nature exist, it can never not exist.

.....we do not notice our true nature because we are a little occupied at the moment!

[RedeZra]

I/we dont exist as a separate entity but there is no denying we exist.


the Kingdom of God or the Realm of Self is within and inhabited with souls filled with the Spirit of Self or God

souls who live in unity with Self or God and in harmony with the Will of Self or God

certain requirements must be met to achieve this high estate above and beyond mind and those who overcome are like God and rightfully so because they are filled with the spirit of Self

[BestLion]

the Kingdom of God or the Realm of Self is within and inhabited with souls filled with the Spirit of Self or God

souls who live in unity with Self or God and in harmony with the Will of Self or God

certain requirements must be met to achieve this high estate above and beyond mind and those who overcome are like God and rightfully so because they are filled with the spirit of Self
Why are you here? EVERY post you have to include your fake jesus god and redemption through him. Do you really take us here as fools? As uneducated middle ages lack of reading idiots? Most here have dabbled in this faith and found it completely useless! God is not righteous! Look at the chart below. Shut up and quit destroying threads with your false religion!

[RedeZra]

Why are you here? EVERY post you have to include your fake jesus god and redemption through him.

have i got a stalker in you lol come on you wouldn't know truth if it bit you in the butt

[Tony]

We may expect the world – and others – to be a certain way.


And now for something uplifting:


A burglar broke into a house in the middle of the night. The room was dark, and out of the darkness a voice said, “Jesus is watching you!”.
The burglar took a step forward.
The voice repeated, “Jesus is watching you!”
The burglar flicked on his torch to see where the voice was coming from. The beam shone on a parrot in a cage.
“Jesus is watching you!” it called.
The burglar went up to the cage, and said, “What's your name?”
“Montague” replied the parrot.
“Montague's a funny name for a parrot!” said the burglar.
“Jesus is a funny name for a Rottweiler!” replied the parrot.


All the best
Tony

PS Remember - you are being watched...!

[Bollinger]

Why are you here? EVERY post you have to include your fake jesus god and redemption through him.

have i got a stalker in you lol come on you wouldn't know truth if it bit you in the butt

The above posts are extremely funny. It produced this picture in my head where BestLion is a busy commuter trying to get somewhere or finish doing some shopping in a busy place and Redezra is also there in the mix shouting frantically through a megaphone, undeterred by everyone pretending he doesn't exist and can't be heard.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

the Kingdom of God or the Realm of Self is within and inhabited with souls filled with the Spirit of Self or God

souls who live in unity with Self or God and in harmony with the Will of Self or God

certain requirements must be met to achieve this high estate above and beyond mind and those who overcome are like God and rightfully so because they are filled with the spirit of Self
Why are you here? EVERY post you have to include your fake jesus god and redemption through him. Do you really take us here as fools? As uneducated middle ages lack of reading idiots? Most here have dabbled in this faith and found it completely useless! God is not righteous! Look at the chart below. Shut up and quit destroying threads with your false religion!

BestLion,

This is not ok. It's perfectly fine to have different beliefs and opinions than others. I strongly suggest that you show more respect for your fellow Avalonians and their beliefs even when you find them irritating. If you feel someone is abusing the forum or spamming, write to them privately or notify a moderator rather than attack them and call their beliefs and traditions stupid. That's not how we do things here. Thank you.

[RedeZra]

...and Redezra is also there in the mix shouting frantically through a megaphone, undeterred by everyone pretending he doesn't exist and can't be heard.

oh so you can actually hear me ; )

[BestLion]

It's perfectly fine to have different beliefs and opinions than others. I strongly suggest that you show more respect for your fellow Avalonians and their beliefs even when you find them irritating.
I have no problem with that, but EVERY post is something about Jesus, sinners, redemption..the Bible fable..and Im feed up! I will state how I think...this man is on a mission to convert Avolinians to his faith 'of which i want no part of" I respect the beliefs of others, but if they have an agenda to convert..then i have a problem..we must be open minded...Also dont forget that faith is based on lies and this poster knows well if real UFOs or Aliens were to be exposed his faith would be crumbled.
I don't apologizes for anything I posted about this poster. He has added nothing to this forum but his post about Jesus and tried to convince others to accept this ridiculous god.

[Bollinger]

...and Redezra is also there in the mix shouting frantically through a megaphone, undeterred by everyone pretending he doesn't exist and can't be heard.

oh so you can actually hear me ; )

Yes we all can but you must know and appreciate that the record you are playing isn't to everyone's taste and once in a while someone will snap at you. In passing, may I ask if your main intention is to actually convert anyone or simply pass on the message in the hope that someone takes it on board?

[minkton]

I dont know if there is an 'ignore' function at this forum, it can be useful.


Equally it is useful to notice when one's buttons are being pushed.

[crested-duck]

Redezra-I'm really sick of the Jesus crap myself, so I'm throwing this history lesson out there, as this is what I learned studying history.--Jesus was born to wealthy parents(not in a manger). His father made a great living making furniture for the Elite ones. Because of his family connections he was allowed to sit in with the elite and learn the mysteries and magik. When he was a teen he spent time with his dad's brother Joseph of Arimithius( otherwise known as Joseph of the tin mines) and traveled with Joseph for a while. Then his family funded him traveling to India and Turkey ,where he studied different religions and learned how to use the powers that we all have, but do'nt know how to use. He came home and the establishment hated him for trying to educate the masses with what he'd learned. He was arrested and nailed to a cross. BUT- Joseph was a good friend of Pontious Pilot who did'nt want to kill Jesus but had to or he'd be killed too. So they devised a plan- Once on the cross he was given gaull in a sponge to quence his thirst-but the sponge had narcotics to make him appear dead, and the order was given to cut his side and not peirce through for the crowds sake. He was put on a cross just before a high holiday and had to be taken down at sunset. They took him to Joseph of Arimitheus's family tomb where people were waiting to tend to him when he woke up. His uncle smuggled him out and brought him to France, where he and Mary started the church of Magdeline, had children and lived to be old. So now nobody has to buy into the ressurection bull###t.. Resurection after three days -it just happened again with the winter solstice and three days later the sun rises again to eventually reach it's highest place in the sky once again. And the cycle continues onward. Enough about christianity alreaddy! Give us all a break. You're preaching to the wrong audience here today! The biblical book of lies was put together and agreed upon at the council on Nicea 300 years after he supposedly died. Prove me wrong- bring it on pal!!!

[RedeZra]

...and Redezra is also there in the mix shouting frantically through a megaphone, undeterred by everyone pretending he doesn't exist and can't be heard.

oh so you can actually hear me ; )

Yes we all can but you must know and appreciate that the record you are playing isn't to everyone's taste and once in a while someone will snap at you. In passing, may I ask if your main intention is to actually convert anyone or simply pass on the message in the hope that someone takes it on board?

so snap at me and don't be surprised if i snap back as i revel in reality and delight in honest emotions


no it's not about converting someone to the Christian faith but presenting musings and evidence for the truth of the Bible

which our education has taught us to ridicule as fiction or mythology

when suppressed and censored artifacts archeology and articles confirm the historical account of this Book which is a matter of concern since the Bible is also prophetic

and so i tend to throw my two cents in here and there about the veracity of the Bible and perhaps someone can prove me wrong

i could hold my peace and just let time play out and reveal things to come but i speak

because God will kick me if i think i know truths and still i don't share ; )

[Whiskey_Mystic]

...and Redezra is also there in the mix shouting frantically through a megaphone, undeterred by everyone pretending he doesn't exist and can't be heard.

oh so you can actually hear me ; )

Yes we all can but you must know and appreciate that the record you are playing isn't to everyone's taste and once in a while someone will snap at you. In passing, may I ask if your main intention is to actually convert anyone or simply pass on the message in the hope that someone takes it on board?

so snap at me and don't be surprised if i snap back as i revel in reality and delight in honest emotions


no it's not about converting someone to the Christian faith but presenting musings and evidence for the truth of the Bible

which our education has taught us to ridicule as fiction or mythology

when suppressed and censored artifacts archeology and articles confirm the historical account of this Book which is a matter of concern since the Bible is also prophetic

and so i tend to throw my two cents in here and there about the veracity of the Bible and perhaps someone can prove me wrong

i could hold my peace and just let time play out and reveal things to come but i speak

because God will kick me if i think i know truths and still i don't share ; )

Just be sure to stay on topic for whatever thread you are on, if you don't mind me suggesting.

[Ernie Nemeth]

The mystery of life is the miracle experienced.

The one thing I know for certain is that "I exist".
All else is speculation.

The difference between me and God is that my sense of "I am" seems to be fallible, fickle, and fleeting. That is the mystery.
This flux of changing definitions I call my life. The miracle is the sense of continuance.
That is experience.

With these I combine faith or "the equivalent of certainty" to create a reality.
But that reality is only my experience of the miracle of life. And it can change anytime.
That is the mystery.

[Mark]

so snap at me and don't be surprised if i snap back as i revel in reality and delight in honest emotions

I really like the way you put that right there. The expression of honest emotions ... I used to like to fight too. LOL Now I just say what I gotta say and get out. But I ain't hatin' ... do you, soul-bredren. ~1

[Bollinger]

...and Redezra is also there in the mix shouting frantically through a megaphone, undeterred by everyone pretending he doesn't exist and can't be heard.

oh so you can actually hear me ; )

Yes we all can but you must know and appreciate that the record you are playing isn't to everyone's taste and once in a while someone will snap at you. In passing, may I ask if your main intention is to actually convert anyone or simply pass on the message in the hope that someone takes it on board?

so snap at me and don't be surprised if i snap back as i revel in reality and delight in honest emotions


no it's not about converting someone to the Christian faith but presenting musings and evidence for the truth of the Bible

which our education has taught us to ridicule as fiction or mythology

when suppressed and censored artifacts archeology and articles confirm the historical account of this Book which is a matter of concern since the Bible is also prophetic

and so i tend to throw my two cents in here and there about the veracity of the Bible and perhaps someone can prove me wrong

i could hold my peace and just let time play out and reveal things to come but i speak

because God will kick me if i think i know truths and still i don't share ; )

Well if you put it like that, I don't have any problem with it. If this world only had people who never disagreed on ideas and ideals, it would not be in the state it is. However, and I think the owner of this thread will also agree, that perhaps our collective mission is to find that illusive balance of tolerance that nurtures coexistence in which full expression is still possible but without the unpleasant emotions that fester in our hearts and lead us astray.

In the end, we all hope that human solidarity will prevail and salvation will mean the same thing to us all.

[Tony]

There is nothing wrong with a bit of passion, but we need the inner Rottveiler tamed and focused!

[Jenci]

Someone was talking about forgiveness.......

Someone said to me once "Don't be so hard on yourself, Jeanette". They noticed that I struggled hard to get it right and was critical of myself when I got it wrong. This gave me the permission to relax and get it wrong occassionally.

I was able to forgive myself and I enjoyed this freedom that I had.

Then someone said to me, "If you want your freedom you must give it to others in the world". So then I was able to forgive others and let them have the same freedom.

And then came the realisation there was no getting it right or getting it wrong, there was nothing to forgive because nothing had been done that needed forgiving. It was all free.

Jeanette

[RedeZra]

Redezra-I'm really sick of the Jesus crap myself, so I'm throwing this history lesson out there, as this is what I learned studying history.

The biblical book of lies was put together and agreed upon at the council on Nicea 300 years after he supposedly died. Prove me wrong- bring it on pal!!!

i can assure you that Jesus is the number one enemy of the state which is ruled by the Devil

the Devil who is thousands of years old is in charge of the elite who is in charge of the establishment and so our modern media military education etc etc

it's not possible to outwit the Devil and see through his schemes by our own understanding no we need the Spirit of Truth or God guiding guarding and telling us about the antics of the Devil

this is not the thread to prove you wrong and besides i can only present evidences in a world ruled by the Devil but best bet is for you to seek and find God yourselves

[Tony]

As I was saying...



Don't fixate too much.
Enemies can become friends and friends can become enemies.
Gradually, all will become one taste. No difference.

Do your best...and let go.
In that spontaneous moment, something magical can arise.

I truly appreciate the quality of responses.
Thanks.

Tony

[BestLion]

the Devil who is thousands of years old is in charge of the elite c
Seriously? i think I may have picked the wrong forum here to be on. And here so many people believe this rubbish! I am not here to have war flames, but everything this guy writes is ridiculous! Time to search again to find more like minded people "means people who are not Christians " Been there seen that done that stuff got the free 10% of my income Tshirt.

[crested-duck]

Some days my feathers get ruffled up more than I would like--sorry for getting off-topic there.

[RedeZra]

the Devil who is thousands of years old is in charge of the elite c
Seriously? i think I may have picked the wrong forum here to be on. And here so many people believe this rubbish! I am not here to have war flames, but everything this guy writes is ridiculous! Time to search again to find more like minded people "means people who are not Christians and believe in UFOs etc.."

seriously where have you been since you have not heard about the secret covens and groves of the elite

where they summon and sacrifice to spirits

seriously

[Tarka the Duck]

the Devil who is thousands of years old is in charge of the elite c
Seriously? i think I may have picked the wrong forum here to be on. And here so many people believe this rubbish! I am not here to have war flames, but everything this guy writes is ridiculous! Time to search again to find more like minded people "means people who are not Christians " Been there seen that done that stuff got the free 10% of my income Tshirt.

Hello Best Lion and RedeZra

May I suggest that you consider staring a thread about your thoughts, as you obviously both have strong feelings on the matter. It would certainly make interesting reading!
This thread wasn't started for this purpose, and, with respect, I think maybe we should listen to the hint from the OP on post #53.

Thanks!
Kathie

[modwiz]

the Devil who is thousands of years old is in charge of the elite c
Seriously? i think I may have picked the wrong forum here to be on. And here so many people believe this rubbish! I am not here to have war flames, but everything this guy writes is ridiculous! Time to search again to find more like minded people "means people who are not Christians " Been there seen that done that stuff got the free 10% of my income Tshirt.

Our very diverse community has a handful of Christians here. These members have good hearts and are respectful. They speak their truth. Their inclusion here speaks well of us and out tolerance. Nobody is selling anything or asking for tithes.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

the Devil who is thousands of years old is in charge of the elite c
Seriously? i think I may have picked the wrong forum here to be on. And here so many people believe this rubbish! I am not here to have war flames, but everything this guy writes is ridiculous! Time to search again to find more like minded people "means people who are not Christians " Been there seen that done that stuff got the free 10% of my income Tshirt.

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all." -Noam Chomksy

[BestLion]

Our very diverse community has a handful of Christians here. These members have good hearts and are respectful members. They speak their truth. Their inclusion here speaks well of us. Nobody is selling anything or asking for tithes.
Their is no truth is that stuff! Its well documented plagiarized and hoaxed. It is only accepted as , because 25% of westerners are of this faith. Also read via his post..near 100% of All his post are about jesus.religion, faith, find jesus, convert, come my way... " Know I already did that search" he should also respect us and quit adding 'be born again on every single thread he post on!
I want good talk, and I am respectful to Christians but when they have an agenda..I have problems. I want just as everyone here the answers to life's riddles .

[modwiz]

the Devil who is thousands of years old is in charge of the elite c
Seriously? i think I may have picked the wrong forum here to be on. And here so many people believe this rubbish! I am not here to have war flames, but everything this guy writes is ridiculous! Time to search again to find more like minded people "means people who are not Christians " Been there seen that done that stuff got the free 10% of my income Tshirt.

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all." -Noam Chomksy

I thanked this post because I agree with it. A proviso however: I do not depise anyone here and I am actually fond of our Christians even though they make me groan from time to time. :thumb:

I actually groan quite a bit here, and not from our Bible friends only.

[RedeZra]

Someone was talking about forgiveness.......

And then came the realisation there was no getting it right or getting it wrong, there was nothing to forgive because nothing had been done that needed forgiving. It was all free.



if someone kills someone's family then forgiveness would no longer be a fancy word but a real option

[Tarka the Duck]

OK, I'm leaving you to it. Enjoy!

'Bye....

[BestLion]

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all." -Noam Chomksy
Noam..LOL i quit listing to a word he said around 2001 time. Ive dismissed anything he says a long time ago. I no longer waste 1 second reading anything that guy writes...and most people in th UFo- ED community agree with me on him!

[WhiteFeather]

Excuse me for a minute peeps, the Jehovah witnesses are knocking on my door again, because i disconnected my doorbell finally. I just told them Satan does not exist within my vortex. So they picked up and left without saying a word.

[RedeZra]

OK, I'm leaving you to it. Enjoy!

'Bye....

no i will respect your wish and retreat into my shell lol

[Whiskey_Mystic]

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all." -Noam Chomksy
Noam..LOL i quit listing to a word he said around 2001 time. Ive dismissed anything he says a long time ago. I no longer waste 1 second reading anything that guy writes...and most people in th UFo- ED community agree with me on him!


BestLion,

What part of that statement do you disagree with?

[modwiz]

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all." -Noam Chomksy
Noam..LOL i quit listing to a word he said around 2001 time. Ive dismissed anything he says a long time ago. I no longer waste 1 second reading anything that guy writes...and most people in th UFo- ED community agree with me on him!

I think Noam is a zionist POS shill. I agree with that quote of his however. It's a baby and bathwater kind of thing.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Excuse me for a minute peeps, the Jehovah witnesses are knocking on my door again, because i disconnected my doorbell finally. I just told them Satan does not exist within my vortex. So they picked up and left without saying a word.

I tell them I am naked. They leave.

[greybeard]

the Devil who is thousands of years old is in charge of the elite c
Seriously? i think I may have picked the wrong forum here to be on. And here so many people believe this rubbish! I am not here to have war flames, but everything this guy writes is ridiculous! Time to search again to find more like minded people "means people who are not Christians " Been there seen that done that stuff got the free 10% of my income Tshirt.

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all." -Noam Chomksy

I thanked this post because I agree with it. A proviso however: I do not depise anyone here and I am actually fond of our Christians even though they make me groan from time to time. :thumb:

I actually groan quite a bit here, and not from our Bible friends only.

Hi Modwiz
Creaking (groaning) doors last the longest.
We have a good future.
I bite my tongue regularly.

"If I knew a little of the little I know I would know a little"----- Spike Milligan--- the goons.

Regards Chris

[Alekahn]

It has also been said that expectation is an enemy of the spirit.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Hmmm...sometimes life's answers are right in front of our noses.

[Davidallany]

Hi Tony,
I remember a story about a man who was attacked and bitten by a snake.
One evening, while walking he mistakengly perceived an old rope as a snake and became extremely frightend, emotions rushed up in him, his heart raced and his muscles tensed.
It seems that experiences in life are built on many confusions, by perceiving things, occurrences and situations in aberrated ways.

[tgops]

Peace begins when expectation ends...yes indeed...:)

[Tony]

The point about inner peace is recognising when we move away from it.
That which distracts us, which we thought of as an enemy,
Actually becomes our teacher!

...the enemy has just become our best friend!