Why am I right and you are wrong...

[Tony]

Why am I right and you are wrong … Why are you right and I am wrong ...why do we argue?

We are all on a journey of self discovery, to realise our ultimate nature.
We each have an individual uncovering to undertake.
It is individual because we have slightly different (or very different) mindsets, due to OUR past experiences - very long experiences.

Each path is different, more or less. So why do we disagree?

I realise that I shouldn't attempt to answer this question, ….but I'm going to anyway! ...well, in part.

We all have different: capacities, data, experiences, intentions and understandings.
Each of us will also have different talents in certain areas. So we are all of value to one another!

Being here together is a very rare opportunity to mix and mingle.
But it is beneficial to remember that we all have different points of view.
Some of us will need 'words' to get to this uncovering, whereas others will have some experience and will need 'words' to help mix and mingle for other's benefit.

Someone may say 1+1=2.
Someone else may say there are just two ones.
Someone else may see them as a harmony.
Someone else may see them as a unity.
Someone else will say they do not exist.

Who is right?

They all are - from their point of view.

We are each turning over our soil, seeing how the earth is, what its quality is.
The more we find joy in our own field, the more abundant our crop, the more it will glow.
It naturally shines because of our devotion and care.
For the field to feed everyone, the quality of the field is more important than the owner. The mind is like that.

When another sees your crop, it will inspire them. That is all that is needed. That will increase their understanding. Sharing what you found to be useful may help, but we are then treading on their path, so we have to take care where we put our feet.

Others stubbornness maybe part of their path: it could refine into tenacity/perseverance.
What we see as a fault in others may be their hidden strength.
Seeing a fault in others may be the moment to check one's own field.

Tolerance, compassion, patience, discipline and concentration are all practical tools to make the path easier to travel along. This produces confidence, and a smart stride..no wobbling!

One's view must be expansive, but one's conduct should be careful, or it will attract demons (a metaphor for self-centredness: if one is unaware of this weakness, one could unwittingly become a brick in the pyramid...)!
Sometimes our bravado may be covering a weak inner child – a child who is slightly out of control.
Once we get a sense that we can handle anything that comes up, we can express our compassion in a complex world.

When we transform our egocentricity into compassion, we are going in the right direction.
Once we get a true glimpse of our inner essence, it will glow in expression ...effulgently!!!

Show you care.



And Happy New Year!!

[Jenci]

Once we get a sense that we can handle anything that comes up, we can express our compassion in a complex world.



And this is our true nature - the sense that anything that is arising is just OK.

Even being wrong is OK. In fact being wrong can actually help because we can realise that what we are is not affected by being "wrong" in an argument.

Eventually we see that being right or being wrong doesn't matter. Then being right or being wrong become irrelevant.
Then we are open to experience life just as it is.


Happy New Year to you too, Tony.
Jeanette

[Providence]

We are each turning over our soil, seeing how the earth is, what its quality is.
The more we find joy in our own field, the more abundant our crop, the more it will glow.
It naturally shines because of our devotion and care.
For the field to feed everyone, the quality of the field is more important than the owner. The mind is like that.



Thank you Tony, very well said, the quality of the soil should be our utmost concern.
Peace!

[jorr lundstrom]

Yes, my dear. comparision seems to be the base for competition.

If we dont compare, everything and everyone is an end to itself.


http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt81/sakasvattaja/Iceland7.jpg

[spiritguide]

Pie, Thank you for sharing and Happy New Year to you also. As the Universe unfolds, ride the wave!

:peace:

[Swanette]

So beautifully said! This is a great message to start us all off in the right direction for 2012.

Here's to a new and compasionate NEW YEAR! :peace:

[sygh]

We are each turning over our soil, seeing how the earth is, what its quality is.
The more we find joy in our own field, the more abundant our crop, the more it will glow.
It naturally shines because of our devotion and care.
For the field to feed everyone, the quality of the field is more important than the owner. The mind is like that.



Thank you Tony, very well said, the quality of the soil should be our utmost concern.
Peace!

Oooh, I like this!!! That is a keeper.

[Ultima Thule]

I don´t know if this fits this thread, perhaps, in regards to right and wrong.
We humans have difficulty in living in the now. Mostly we are either in the past or the future.
Wanting to be right is ironically one thing that could be seen as forcing us to be present in the now - in the form of:"I don´t need to be right every time, but it is of utmost importance that I am right right now, just this once! YOU can be right tomorrow.."

UT

[another bob]

We are each turning over our soil, seeing how the earth is, what its quality is.
The more we find joy in our own field, the more abundant our crop, the more it will glow.
It naturally shines because of our devotion and care.
For the field to feed everyone, the quality of the field is more important than the owner.

TYeVQzTVyLk

(Sorry, couldn't resist . . . Happy New Year, Friends!)

:yo:

[Dorjezigzag]

Indeed why do we argue with our self when we are all one. Lets try to enjoy rather than annoy each other in 2012
FJNAyxOWUwU

[baddbob]

Happy new year and thanks for the post.So really one's enlighten path maybe someone elses dark corner.

[markpierre]

One's view must be expansive, but one's conduct should be careful, or it will attract demons (a metaphor for self-centredness: if one is unaware of this weakness, one could unwittingly become a brick in the pyramid...)!
Sometimes our bravado may be covering a weak inner child – a child who is slightly out of control.
Once we get a sense that we can handle anything that comes up, we can express our compassion in a complex world.

When we transform our egocentricity into compassion, we are going in the right direction.
Once we get a true glimpse of our inner essence, it will glow in expression ...effulgently!!!

Show you care.


And Happy New Year!!

Beautifully said mate. The whole post is really remarkable. Thank you. We do things differently, but I think I understand you, I certainly feel you.

The bit I isolated is profound, but retrospective. You do your work and there's a reward. You can't know when that moment of 'turnaround' occurs, but it's the shift from mind acting and expressing in 'self protection' mode, to pro-active and creative.
You can't go out and create from an egocentric mind. You can make things. You can organize things. You can assert things. You'll only 'create' more protection for yourself.
You'll be creating in truth long before you realize it's you doing it.
I'm not so sure we accomplish this in ourselves, because we invest in our individual disciplines from a purely egocentric position.
So do we do the work, or does the work 'do us'.

Well I have an opinion, but the answer doesn't matter.

That sense that 'we can handle anything that comes up' is bound to be tested, and it's possible to fail. Not in the end, but in the way we imagine it should succeed.
The past few years have been extreme for me, but then arrived a moment when the ground stopped shaking and everything was still . And I was still me.
One morning in fact, that I realized that something old and no longer applicable had given up and departed me. I couldn't even guess at when that had occurred, or how.

I think those dark nights of the soul are profound but not inevitable. I don't know. It may have just been inevitable for me.

After 30 years of searching and training and discipline and teaching and integrating, reaping the fruits of my intentions, traveling the universe, doing brilliant work,
and collapsing into a condition where none of it ever mattered. Nothing meant anything. I made up all of the meaning to suit me. The teachings were true. It isn't humility, it's the humility of a crushed bug.

But still there is only one direction. Up. You're lying in the mud on your back in the middle of a battlefield and it dawns on you....the war is over. And you're still you.
We all discover that 'truth', one way or another. Happy New Year to you too.

So "show you care" everyone. It's not enough to 'care'. You can't find out what's different about this new 'you', until you go out and actively change the effects of the world you made from sorrow to joy.

It works...you can do it. Happy New Year to everyone!

[Tarka the Duck]

The ideas in the OP brought to mind a story someone once told me: it reminded me how different people view the same thing from different perspectives - each has validity, as they reflect the experiences, intention and interests of the individual.

Assessing the value of a diamond:

Geologists - would be interested in where it was found
Scientists - would be interested in how it was formed
Industrialists - would be interested in its qualities of durability
Cutters - would see the potential within its raw state
Jewellers - would assess its retail possibilities
Investors - would look at its worth as the form of security
And there are those would be interested in the beauty of its appearance as an adornment.

It all works perfectly together!

And happy new year to everyone too!
Kathie

[Tony]

MarkPierre

Wow. You put that so beautifully. Perfect comes from perfect. Wow again!

Tony

[markpierre]

Tony,

So if I need a job, can I use you as a reference?

[Ineffable Hitchhiker]

We are each turning over our soil, seeing how the earth is, what its quality is.
The more we find joy in our own field, the more abundant our crop, the more it will glow.
It naturally shines because of our devotion and care.
For the field to feed everyone, the quality of the field is more important than the owner. The mind is like that.



Thank you Tony, very well said, the quality of the soil should be our utmost concern.
Peace!


Wonderful!

I would like to add...


Be mindful of the tiny seedlings being planted in the various "beds".
The quality of the soil does not improve by trampling on it daily. :)

[truth4me]

So beautifully said! This is a great message to start us all off in the right direction for 2012.

Here's to a new and compasionate NEW YEAR! :peace: That's right. Let's all start fresh and in the right direction for 2012.....

[Bollinger]

Reading the comments in response to Tony's post so far, it does feel remarkably like a campfire with the cosy embers gently simmering away while the proverbial joint is being passed around and everyone agrees how good this "stuff" is. Then comes my turn, and I'm already coughing and splattering all over the place, and as I choke to death on the unaccustomed fumes, the rest gaze in bewilderment; as though to say, who the hell is this guy?

Here’s wishing you all a happy new year as well.

[percival tyro]

Another lucid sunbeam for our light box. Happy new year.

[Tony]

Reading the comments in response to Tony's post so far, it does feel remarkably like a campfire with the cosy embers gently simmering away while the proverbial joint is being passed around and everyone agrees how good this "stuff" is. Then comes my turn, and I'm already coughing and splattering all over the place, and as I choke to death on the unaccustomed fumes, the rest gaze in bewilderment; as though to say, who the hell is this guy?

Here’s wishing you all a happy new year as well.


iaI3wkZ3lIk
We all take turns in being the Little Prince, the Fox and the Rose - but what unites us is that which is unsaid.

Tony

[Davidallany]

Each path is different, more or less. So why do we disagree?
Human life span is relatively too short, and events in general, live even shorter. We should allow people to disagree, especially on forums, even as fine a forum as Avalon forum. After all, even monastics disagree, sometimes in a very nasty way, not that monastics are the highest in consciousness in anyway, but the structure and rigid practical training of monastics in the ways of tolerance, forgiveness, humility and compassion makes them in abetter position to deal with human frailties, even though in a superficial way.

So, I think that disagreeing is not an issue, it's rather how one takes it and reflects upon it or internalize it.
In life it is expected to meet people that disagree with us and we, with them.
If disagreement is a problem, then it's perhaps related to limitations in our active or supressed DNA.

We, as current humans in all our levels of advancements need to process emotions, feel the connection. When the time comes and meet your the people who are the next piece of the puzzle, all the unprocessed emotions will come rushing up, and request release, it's time to start believing, and take an active rule in creating and shaping reality.

My recommendation is to seek the pioneers, and their company. Hopefully, we can emulate them, if we are up to the challenge.

[Tarka the Duck]

Reading the comments in response to Tony's post so far, it does feel remarkably like a campfire with the cosy embers gently simmering away while the proverbial joint is being passed around and everyone agrees how good this "stuff" is. Then comes my turn, and I'm already coughing and splattering all over the place, and as I choke to death on the unaccustomed fumes, the rest gaze in bewilderment; as though to say, who the hell is this guy?

Here’s wishing you all a happy new year as well.

Bollinger, Bollinger, Bollinger.
I love you, Bollinger.
This piece of writing made me laugh til I cried - tears of empathy more than anything, I think.
I know EXACTLY what you are feeling, and I am so glad that I'm not the only one.
What you said describes me in so many situations...:o

Kathie

PS While I'm here...I finally got what you were saying on the other thread, is Enlightenment the only way...and I'm one with a many of the points you raised. Sorry for being a bit dense... :kiss:

[Bollinger]

Reading the comments in response to Tony's post so far, it does feel remarkably like a campfire with the cosy embers gently simmering away while the proverbial joint is being passed around and everyone agrees how good this "stuff" is. Then comes my turn, and I'm already coughing and splattering all over the place, and as I choke to death on the unaccustomed fumes, the rest gaze in bewilderment; as though to say, who the hell is this guy?

Here’s wishing you all a happy new year as well.

Bollinger, Bollinger, Bollinger.
I love you, Bollinger.
This piece of writing made me laugh til I cried - tears of empathy more than anything, I think.
I know EXACTLY what you are feeling, and I am so glad that I'm not the only one.
What you said describes me in so many situations...:o

Kathie

PS While I'm here...I finally got what you were saying on the other thread, is Enlightenment the only way...and I'm one with a many of the points you raised. Sorry for being a bit dense... :kiss:

Kathie, thank you for the kind words. It pleases me that I was able to bring laughter to your day and it was intended to be funny. I love you too.

Bollinger

[Mark]

I used to loooooove to debate.

Spent the 90s and most of the 00s doing it in classrooms, chatrooms, BBs, groups. Got reeeaaaal good at it. Got so good that I couldn't read a sentence without dissecting it, creating an argument, presenting it and then burying my 'opponent' all before even replying. Got so good at it that I achieved high heights in Academia, debated scholars, professors, got invitations and opportunities, come join our system, present your arguments on the topics we choose and your dreams will be realized; come, debate with us, for us, for the rest of your life.

But while learning those lessons in public I was learning other lessons in private. Lessons pertaining to the dispensation of the soul, to emotional vampirism, to love, to hate, to ego. The combination of the two brought me, suddenly, to the realization that all knowledge is One path, as you state here, and we are all at different stages, some of us closer to each other, others of us further away from each other. Sometimes we branch off on side roads and paths that take us other places, but there is always a way back and time and experience brings us each along.

Right and wrong ... you can't really know they are illusions until you truly internalize the idea of the infinite and the eternal. And that right and wrong are part of a closed system. And that Truth is more important than right and wrong and, often when we debate, right and wrong have little to do with Truth. Since that realization I take myself much less seriously and am much less invested in "little t" truths of the "little s" self (http://rahkyt.wordpress.com/2011/12/26/the-rules-of-capitalization-the-spiritual-lies-we-live/). But I respect the reality that we each must come to this realization for Self and honor the process and emotional honesty of those who continue to follow that path.