Salvia - a Hallucinogen For the Multitudes?

[Arrowwind]

of course I am putting this under alternative medicine for alternative approaches to mental and spiritual health.

I have been seeking a hallucinogen plant medicine recently and am seeking information really, on any plant medicine experiences that you may have. Mushrooms are ruled out for me and of course the most profound ayahuasca is just too diffiult to get. I am looking at Saliva due to its ease of growing in the States as well as the short duration of the hallucinogenic experience. I have not done it.

I am seeking information on how to use it, how it is best prepared and what what varieties can be used. I have a number of plants in my garden that were labled Salvia and they have had different color flowers from white to pale yellow to a very deep blue... so I suspect that they are different species. One blue one that I had came back as white after three years.. so what was with that?

Is it necessary to have the species divinorum or do other species work as well?
Any practical experience folks my have with this herb is appreciated.

I am considering it a hallucigin for the multitudes due its nontoxic nature and short duration of effect.


http://www.google.com/search?q=salvia+hallucinogen&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1&rlz=1I7SKPT_en
A new study provides some data: The hallucinogen kicks off an unusually intense and short-lasting high, with no obvious ill effects, researchers report in an upcoming Drug and Alcohol Dependence paper.
"This is a landmark paper because it’s the first paper in which authentic salvinorin A was administered to human volunteers under controlled conditions, and it was shown to be hallucinogenic," says psychiatrist and pharmacologist Bryan Roth of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, who was not involved in the research. "All we had before were anecdotal reports, where people had bought salvia extract from their local smoke shop."

[Laurel]

i have used salvia a few times. It used to be legal in my state and you could buy it at a local store. The first time you use it you should have someone with you, and not smoked it at the same time. Until you know how it will effect you, best to be safe and smart. The effects last about 20 minutes.

In my experience, it is a very positive herb. I completely agree that it is mentally and spiritually beneficial. It helps with depression, too. It is not addictive. Why the government has made it illegal, I'll never understand. Maybe because it is helpful?

I don't know much about the different colors, and have purchased the Purple Sticky brand in the past. I recommend the following website which I read cover to cover before buying salvia the first time.
http://www.salvia.net/

I hope this helps :cool:

[blufire]

Hi Arrowwind,

I’m not sure why you would want a hallucinogen for the general population especially in relation to mental or spiritual health. Maybe a bit more info on what results you are thinking of or hoping for?

As far as salvia as a hallucinogen then Salvia divinorum is your best choice. It is most commonly referred to as diviner’s sage. True divinorum is one of the most potent natural occurring psychedelics or entheogens that has been discovered.

Few people are aware that divinorum can only be grown from cuttings from a “mother plant”. A mature plant will produce seeds but they are generally not viable or may not produce a true divinorum plant. It is native only to the high mountains of Oaxaca Mexico and has been highly protected by the native people. Most divinorum plants or “preparations” purchased from dealers or through the internet are false or mimic divinorum like most etheogens you will find on the market

Your sage that you are growing in the garden are probably the more general and culinary sages. All most all sages though have valuable medicinal uses. Each variety will do slightly different things according to the medicinal constituent each contains.

Your blue flowering sage has mostly likely cross-pollinated with the more common white flowering sages. Another thought is many blue flowering plants are slightly to highly acid loving plants and require acid type fertilizers . . . coffee grounds work great! If they don’t have acid in the soil the flowers will not turn blue or purple. Most garden type sages are annuals but reseed each year.

[shamanseeker]

Are you saying that you can't even eat sage in the U.S. now? In Italy we eat a lot of sage (Italian "salvia"). Is this what you're talking about? It is very good for you and delicious. Especially good fried in butter :)

[seko]

I have taken Salvia Divinorum(ska maria pastora) from Oaxaca, Mexico and it's an amazing experience although a little scary the first time.

It lasts only 3 min. but those 3 min. are something to remember and the plant to be respected and not take it for fun.

A very interesting fact about Salvia Divinorum is that is NOT a hallucinogenic plant, it doesn't contain Nitrogen like the rest of the hallucinogenic plants. That is why is hasn't been banned in many countries fortunately.


Potency

By mass, salvinorin A "is the most potent naturally occurring hallucinogen."[57] It is active at doses as low as 200 µg.[24][53][57] Synthetic chemicals, such as LSD (active at 20–30 µg doses), can be more potent.[58] Research has shown that salvinorin A is a potent and selective κ-Opioid (kappa-Opioid) receptor agonist.[53][59] It has been reported that the effects of salvinorin A in mice are blocked by κ-Opioid receptor antagonists.[11] However, it is an even more potent D2 receptor partial agonist, and it is likely this action plays a significant role in its effects as well.[12] Salvinorin A has no actions at the 5-HT2A serotonin receptor, the principal molecular target responsible for the actions of 'classic' hallucinogens, such as mescaline and LSD, nor is it known to have affinity for any other sites to date.[11]

Salvinorin's potency should not be confused with toxicity. Rodents chronically exposed to dosages, many times greater than those to which humans are exposed, did not show signs of organ damage.[13]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvia_divinorum

[minkton]

Seko, that's interesting. I thought a Salvia 'trip' lasted a long while, generally. I would be interested in using Salvia for shamanic reasons, and if it was def 'only' going to take 3 minutes, that would be amazing. Are you able to share where you got the dose from precisely?!

[GlassSteagallfan]

It is available on ebay as well as smoke shops in NYS.

Laurel is correct - read up on how to use it first, otherwise it could have disastrous effects. Check your state laws too.

[minkton]

It is yes. I have seen it and also read up about it on Erowid and watched film about it on youtube.

But I never heard before of salvia which gave such a short duration strong effect, which was is why I asked speciifically for the details of whatever particular treatment Seko had experienced.

[seko]

Seko, that's interesting. I thought a Salvia 'trip' lasted a long while, generally. I would be interested in using Salvia for shamanic reasons, and if it was def 'only' going to take 3 minutes, that would be amazing. Are you able to share where you got the dose from precisely?!

I don't know where you can find it in the U.S.

Here in Mexico I got it in Oaxaca which is the south of the country with friends, don't know the exact place where they got it from.

[DarMar]

If you gonna try it, deffinetly get someone by you to watch a bit :)

auZx20vhhrU

[seko]

It is yes. I have seen it and also read up about it on Erowid and watched film about it on youtube.

But I never heard before of salvia which gave such a short duration strong effect, which was is why I asked speciifically for the details of whatever particular treatment Seko had experienced.

I smoked it. What I saw was very interesting but what you see will depend on personal feelings or emotional state and it may not be same for anybody else.

It isn't addictive or harmful.

[astrid]

List of countries ( and states) where it is banned and about to be banned.
Note that in the USA lots of states have already banned it.
http://www.salvia.net/en/legality.htm

Note that this is ONLY Salvia divinorum culinary sage,
Salvia officinalis being still available and legal anywhere.

There are tons and tons of different Salvias

Looks like this is one of the main places to purchase if you are in the US.
But if its banned in your country, like it is in mine, forget it,
it will get stopped via customs.

http://www.arenaethnobotanicals.com/organic-salvia-divinorum-c-1.html?ref=17

For Europe try here..
http://azarius.net/smartshop/psychedelics/salvia_divinorum/?a=344

[minkton]

Thanks Seko. and Thanks Astrid.

DarMar, exactly! That's why I was intrigued by the short duration dose!

[9eagle9]

I treat depressions and anxiety, and release of emotional issues with Salvia. I have it periodically in ritual and have had workshops with others who wanted to experience out of body.

I'd find someone who is fairly well versed in it so they can sit with you. I don't have to tell you to be careful or follow instructions but I've had some people snorf down the smoke like they were smoking pot and go right off into another realm, spooking themselves and even the entities inhabiting that realms with their abrupt arrival there.

Low lighting, not dark but indirect. No loud noises, radio, music anything of that nature. No TV. It is a spiritual event and the vibration of those sorts of things can bang you right back to one's usual consciouness state.

Get comfortable and get your intentions in order. Spend time handling the herb and regarding it. Knd of communing with it and letting it know what you want to achieve. Then arrange the use of it around any sort of personal ritual , just creating a sacred space and intention. Try a low extraction at first like 5x or 10x. then one puff wait a minute, see how you feel then try another puff. "Stepping' into the experince.

That way you can just have a mild meditative state, a deeper one, a sorta of loopy in between worlds space, or just going out of body. I find using too much as to go completely unconscious to be sort of like missing the whole point but some people do that too.

Just step up your puffing until you reach the level you wish to work at. Some people try a few hits and then the next time around take the plunge. You'll know what is right for you.

Stage up in puffs of two. Unlike being drunk or high or on LSD there is a sober part of you that remains in a lot of clarity and then a part that is having the experience. So you have a sort of division where one part of you is grounded and the other going off. Then eventually you will go out all together.

Remain seated. Your sitter is there to make sure you remain seated because as the illusions drop away , the floor might too....lol.. Most people who have a bad experience with havent' done any work in clearing out any crap at all. Profuse sweating is sign of emotional release so not to be troubled by it. The good thing is peak experience is only about 10 minutes so even if you are not happy with whats going on you come out of it farily quickly. Plus your sitter can bring you out by turning on the TV and turning up the lights and then tapping hard on your chest. Because this isn't an organic effect one doesn't have to wait to 'sober up' or be metabolized to come back to one's usual conscious state.

Making sure you dignity is not held in high regard (he he) beause people start to respond to 'things' that aren't there . A good sitter will help you pull some stuff out during this time, like someone who knows how to counsel but failing all else find someone who has done it before, won't let you start walking (risking further loss of dignity and probably a fall) crazily around, and can tap you if you start not liking what is occuring.

From what I know about you, you're clear-er than most and will 'process ' the event properly.

I think you'd do well with the expeirience just go into it as makes you feel comfortable and respectfully and you will be fine.

[ScubaMonkey]

I'd advise caution. Where as the trip may only last for but a few mins, it can feel like a lifetime when you're treking on through it. Ensure someone sober is on hand to keep an eye on you and make sure you don't do anything too daft. Most importantly, be entirely sure that you do actually want to do it. Remove any doubts or worries about it from your mind, otherwise you could be in for the longest few mins of your life!

[Arrowwind]

Thank you all for your great responses... so far it seems to still remain legal in my state and is not even up for discussion.

astrid.. thanks for the links.

9eagle9 - thats for the prep notes.

I haven't had time to go through all the posts yet but I think you all have brought forth the information that I am seeking.

Ive done some hallucinagen in the distant past but am feeling like it may be appropriate in the not to distant future for our women's circle. I so love the actual plant and have had it around for quite a long time now but I dont think its the correct variety. I go to Oaxaca fairly often, and likly next winter on our drive to Palenque so I may investigate further there if possible.

Seems that through the right websites I can purchase living plants so that is of considerable interest.
Thank you all for your insights.

[Arrowwind]

Oh, someone asked about the idea of a hallucigen for the mulitudes...

Well. its like this. I have always really appreciated and respected the power of plant medicine. I also appreciate the power that such medicine has to help people to move forward in awakening.. Salvia is not real well known and I have seen quite disasterous results with other types of trips. Of course I absolutely agree that a guide is requried or some sort of sealed ceremonial space. We have been talking about the possibility in a group I belong to, discussing what could be a good option and not too dangerous for the variety of particpants that we encompass. So I am looking at Salvia.... I would say that as a group we very much represent the multitudes in our vibratory status, experience, understanding and energetic needs as well as desires for exploration, being in a wide spectrum of ages, employ and spiritual diciplines.

[Kumonitori]

Hi Blufire,
I did a quick search for the type of Salvia you mentioned, "Salvia Divinorum".
I found two strains, Blosser Strain and Wasson & Hoffman Strain.
Would you or anyone on this thread know what the difference of these two are, in terms of medicinal potency or the ease of growing them?

[minkton]

I'd advise caution. Where as the trip may only last for but a few mins, it can feel like a lifetime when you're treking on through it. Ensure someone sober is on hand to keep an eye on you and make sure you don't do anything too daft. Most importantly, be entirely sure that you do actually want to do it. Remove any doubts or worries about it from your mind, otherwise you could be in for the longest few mins of your life!


Hi ScubaMonkey, have you also done salvia and found it lasted for only a few minutes? (BTW, I get you about the time distortion potential.)

¤=[Post Update]=¤

for anyone that doesnt think a few mins can be a long time, just imagine being at peak orgasm for three minutes.

( yeh! imagine it!)

[grapevine]

for anyone that doesnt think a few mins can be a long time, just imagine being at peak orgasm for three minutes.

( yeh! imagine it!)

Yes, yes, yes - OMG my eyeballs just rolled out . . . :)

[TargeT]

As with any hallucinogens I'd say the key is a person who is able to be calm & not give into fear.

Now, you can effect a person & promote this type of behavior, 9eagle9 had very good advice, the presence of a calm person, indirect organic light, as little electrical interference as possible, no flourecent lighting etc.

I stumbled into these from a recreation point of view but discovered the usefulness, clarity & perspective of my experiences... I've never been guided, I feel I don't need to be, I ask the questions I feel need asking while in the experience and try to understand what returns; I bet having a guide would be highly benificial.

I only recently learned about shamanism & what it really was & am very intrigued.

[blufire]

Okay, I always hesitate to enter these types of discussions but because shamanism and the use of entheogens are highly popular and especially on PA at the time. I will try to clearly give my opinion and knowledge in these areas.

I hesitate because my views vary quite differently than the general views and usually met with a fair amount of anger and I tend to upset members . . .so I apologize to anyone who reads my post and may feel this way. I am not judging or invalidating anyone’s views or experiences.

I have worked with medicinal herbs for close to 40 years. I am a foundational herbalist, which means I start with the oldest, most reliable information on healing or medicinal abilities and research forward to the newest information. I also am an organic grower and so also grow or wildcraft many of the herbs I use. I spend volumes of time researching the origin and family of all medicinal herbs before I grow and/or use them. I also have spent extended time in the rainforests of Belize and Guatemala and shared my story in Rahkyt’s thread “Shamanism – Getting to Know the Unknown. I would like to suggest you read it (my experience)

This is what I know about Salvia divinorum. It is native or originally only found in the remote Sierra Mazateca (mountains) of Oaxaca, Mexico where it is deliberately planted and cultivated by the Mazatec Indian People. In ancient times it was most likely grown and used by Aztec shaman only.

Salvia divinorum can only be cultivated from cuttings of a mother plant. The seed the mother plant produces will not produce a “true” divinorum sage which means it is a hybrid. A hybrid is a plant that is cultivated by cross pollinating two parent plants of different species. It has never been discovered what two parent plants the Mazatec Indian shaman use to cultivate this sage. Etheogens are highly protected by the indigenous peoples and even within those tribes very very few know the true information and wisdom of these magical plants.

For many years the active etheogen ingredient was unknown, but finally researchers feel the primary constituent is salvinorin A C23H2808 and is the most potent naturally occurring psychedelic known. Recommended doses are only slightly less potent than that of LSD-25.

Kumonitori, you asked my opinion of two currently common “strains” of Salvia divinorum. After the active ingredient was isolated the adulteration of this medicinal herb began. The salvia available through the internet and “head shops” today bears little resemblance to the herb cultivated by the Mazatec Indians. I have ordered and grown several plants from different online sites and they have ALL been illegitimate strains . . . .all of them. They are not true Salvia divinorum . . . . they are in the sage family and bear a close resemblance, but I am 100% positive they are not Diviner’s Sage.

Shamanism, I feel strongly has equally been adulterated. Today it is a common belief that if one purchases etheogens and take a few trips, adopt the new latest and greatest new age religion or pagan beliefs, set up a website, charge a fee for their counseling and healing and shazaam they are a shaman. So called shaman or shaman “wanna be’s” are arrogant, selfish and generally are thinking of themselves. True shaman practice their gift for the good of their people. It is a long patient process becoming this powerful healer and they are chosen . . . . they do not selfishly choose or desire it.

The past popular fads have been wicca, witchcraft, goddess or divine feminine to the extreme, druids and warlocks, alchemists and other mystical ancient pagan beliefs and practices . . . all misused and malpracticed.

Shaman intimately know the spirit and energy of the plants they use and part of that understanding and respect comes from growing, nurturing, harvesting and preparing the very medicine and magic they ingest or use for the good of the people in their care. It is a melding and mutual deep wisdom shared by two different sentient Beings.

A shaman I believe can be identified first by one thing. . . . are they living the life of a healer and deeply spiritual person or is the professed shamans life only vaguely different than that of all humans. I have only been in the presence of one person I believe was a true shaman . . . . and that person left a profound impression on me and I have never felt it again to this day.

.

[Carmody]

I have worked with medicinal herbs for close to 40 years. I am a foundational herbalist, which means I start with the oldest, most reliable information on healing or medicinal abilities and research forward to the newest information. I also am an organic grower and so also grow or wildcraft many of the herbs I use. I spend volumes of time researching the origin and family of all medicinal herbs before I grow and/or use them. I also have spent extended time in the rainforests of Belize and Guatemala and shared my story in Rahkyt’s thread “Shamanism – Getting to Know the Unknown. I would like to suggest you read it (my experience).



I think you'll like this one, then. It, in context..may also explain the behavior of real saliva vs the 'non' real versions.


http://blog.hasslberger.com/docs/CIBA_PATENTED_TECHNOLOGY.pdf

[WhiteFeather]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IINFQ4wFyCI


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgpvWaiGLns&feature=related

For a spiritual upliftment check out Ormus as well.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?37690-Egyptians-Spiritual-Elixir-White-Gold-White-Ormus-and-Shrewbread

[WhiteFeather]

Ormus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF1h4Zy69J8&feature=related

[Vitalux]

Not that I want to rain on your determination to seek a way to blast your brain into an alternate dimension, however.....the brain is a terrible thing to waste.

My thoughts after venturing over to the side you are seeking is that.
We spend most of our lives living in an altered state of reality thanks to our government, media and those that put the fluoride in our toothpaste.
We might want to rescue what little we have left of our brain and use to to understand this reality before we send it down the rabbit hole.

[TargeT]

Not that I want to rain on your determination to seek a way to blast your brain into an alternate dimension, however.....the brain is a terrible thing to waste.

My thoughts after venturing over to the side you are seeking is that.
We spend most of our lives living in an altered state of reality thanks to our government, media and those that put the fluoride in our toothpaste.
We might want to rescue what little we have left of our brain and use to to understand this reality before we send it down the rabbit hole.

I think I feel completely oppisite.

With out a hard hit to your "foundation" beliefs & imposed indoctrination; few humans willl ever be open to challanging strongly held belief...

Hallucinogens can provide that kick, near death experiences can also; beyond that apparently they can be very benifical in other ways; it also fits with the easy rule of "what ever government veheminately wants you NOT to do is probably something you should be doing" that I heard, or made up.. haha

[TargeT]

Ormus


Interesting....

“What is Ormus from Blue Water Alchemy?”

Ormus is created from pure Organic Sea Salts. We start with the rich base of Dead Sea and Pacific Sonoma salts that buffer and carry the Celtic and Bolivian salts that together produce a smooth taste and a well-balanced combination of m-state elements providing that necessary connective element to the Light Body.

As Ormus is created through an ancient alchemical process, elements, in their high-spin, quantum or M-state, are manifest.

These m-state elements in Ormus are “trans-dimensional” in nature and behavior.

They subtly, yet directly, connect a person to the Quantum Field.

Cell by cell, chromosome by chromosome the Ormus plugs us back in, to ourselves. Some people can feel the connection, others cannot… Regardless of whether or not its effects are felt consciously, it is happening. As that connection develops an information channel is opened and healing begins as the 300-billion cells in our body that need to be ‘cloned’ today are replicated with the proper cellular template and with that, whole body healing can begin.

These Ormus m-state elements are stem cells from the Mineral Kingdom designed to ground and connect biological physiology (plant and animal) to the Earth and to Spirit establishing the conditions for balance, harmony and well being.

Ormus is the Event Horizon opening the Quantum Connection to your Light Body via trillions of microtubules.

Ormus is Ancient Alchemy and yet it’s new, every time.

We start with a base of Dead Sea Salt rich in mono-atomic gold and magnesium, then we add salts from New Zealand the C-11 elements (Rhodium, Iridium, etc.) from the clean deep southern Pacific Ocean that buffer and carry the Celtic Salts from Normandy (rich in platinum group metals). Finally, a tasty pink salt recovered from an ancient spring high in the Andes finishes the recipe. These salts together produce a smooth taste and a well-balanced combination of m-state elements providing that necessary and sought after connective group of mono-atomic elements allowing for an enhanced connection to your subtle energy body.

Ormus becomes your Trans-Dimensional Connection to Wellness. An 8-ounce bottle should last approximately 1 month.

Ingredients: Dead Sea, Pacific, Celtic, Bolivian Salts, Structured Alkaline Water Directions: Take 1 Teaspoon to 1 Tablespoon daily with or without water. Keep and store ormus in provided EMF bag.

* These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.



so its just a mixture of salts...

well, the popular "spice" is just a salt also... that reacts with a certain receptor

[WhiteFeather]

I did alot of acid when i was a teenager, i believe it has helped me with my spiritual path today, if you will.

[Rantaak]

Salvia (Salvinorin A crystal) is sold in many head shops in a reconstituted form. The general process is to extract the pure chemical and then reapply it to the plant material. It is far more efficient to stick with the pure crystalline extraction, as this can be placed into tiny slivers of rolling paper which can be smoked. If you're stuck with the plant material then you'll need leather lungs and a water pipe if you really want to get anywhere special. You'll need to hold the smoke in for about 45 seconds.

I have taken Salvia on about 200 different occasions. No longer something in my realm of interest, though some interesting observations have come of it. The most prominent of which is that when in that state one is reconciled with the fact that time doesn't actually exist, but is something that our consciousness creates through a filter.

Though the apparent physical duration of the journey can last between four and ten minutes, each slice of time perceived by the mind in this state can seem as an eternity.

My belief about Salvia is that it is legal because it serves as a very effective way of terrifying people from psychedelics in general. The comfort zone states that it is legal, so it must be gentler and more bearable than the non-legal entheogens. This is certainly not the case. Salvia is the most terrifying compound I am aware of, and I would not recommend taking it without an experienced guide. One of my occultist friends compares the Salvia experience to "bleeding spiritually".

It is interesting that you say mushrooms are ruled out for you. I have found them to be gentle in comparison to Salvia, though at higher doses they are extremely different in character.

Salvia is a very difficult teacher. It will say to you, "HA HA! I'M GOING TO SHOW YOU SOMETHING THAT YOU CANNOT POSSIBLY UNDERSTAND UNTIL YOU HAVE GRADUATED FROM THE THIRD DENSITY OF VIBRATION BUT IT'S GOING TO BLOW YOUR MIND ALL THE SAME AND YOU WILL BE LEFT CONFOUNDED BY HOW DISSONANT IT IS WITH YOUR CONVENTIONAL MODE OF COGNITION! SMEET SMEARN!"

It works a bit like a gag reflex though, if you become comfortable with the Salvia state, it becomes much less treacherous to experience other entheogenic substances because it doesn't hurt quite as much.

I hope that these observations I have shared can be helpful. Good luck! Don't panic!

[Vitalux]

Not that I want to rain on your determination to seek a way to blast your brain into an alternate dimension, however.....the brain is a terrible thing to waste.

My thoughts after venturing over to the side you are seeking is that.
We spend most of our lives living in an altered state of reality thanks to our government, media and those that put the fluoride in our toothpaste.
We might want to rescue what little we have left of our brain and use to to understand this reality before we send it down the rabbit hole.

I think I feel completely oppisite.

With out a hard hit to your "foundation" beliefs & imposed indoctrination; few humans willl ever be open to challanging strongly held belief...

Hallucinogens can provide that kick, near death experiences can also; beyond that apparently they can be very benifical in other ways; it also fits with the easy rule of "what ever government veheminately wants you NOT to do is probably something you should be doing" that I heard, or made up.. haha


I hope I don't come off completely as a prude.
I've done acid, I've done magic mushrooms as well as mainstream drugs over my life.
Presently I do not drink, or consume drugs and I also am a vegetarian.

Doing psychedelic drugs I agree opens and channels our mind to other insights and can be beneficial.
However, understand at the same time, we are dealing with things that should not be taken lightly.

All reality is completely distorted, and unless properly respected and understood could do more harm than good.

For example, you would not feed a 40 ounce bottle of whiskey to a friend and then set him/her behind the wheel of a car, or take him our in a public place and expect him to function.
You would not drop 8 hits of acid in a guys pop and send him home on a bus.

There is fine line between sanity and insanity.
When someone does psychedelic drugs, that line is difficult to stand on
It is just hoped that when one goes out on a trip, that we are able to journey back to that side of the line again, before we do something stupid.

I once witnessed a young girl jump in front of a transport truck ( commit suicide) because she thought demons were inside her head while stoned on a psychedelic drug.
It was not a pleasurable experience to witness .

Now you might relate to where my understanding is based from.

:ohwell:

[TargeT]

I guess the rule of how you pick your friends here applys perhaps?

I hung out with stoners, but none of them were ever retarded.. mushrooms was a planned event, you blocked off 16 hours, went some where isolated, sunny, calm, and enjoyed the experience... this is all I've ever seen from any drug use but alcohol.. but I'm white, from the west coast & middle class; my perspective is probably representive of a large size group howver.

yes, it shouldnt be taken lightly, but honestly I cannot see how that is not inffered, tread lightly, go slow, and talk with someone or research to get an idea of what to expect, that was always our aproach, though only plant based was another rule ;) haha

[conk]

I'd advise caution. Where as the trip may only last for but a few mins, it can feel like a lifetime when you're treking on through it. Ensure someone sober is on hand to keep an eye on you and make sure you don't do anything too daft. Most importantly, be entirely sure that you do actually want to do it. Remove any doubts or worries about it from your mind, otherwise you could be in for the longest few mins of your life!


Hi ScubaMonkey, have you also done salvia and found it lasted for only a few minutes? (BTW, I get you about the time distortion potential.)

¤=[Post Update]=¤ for anyone that doesnt think a few mins can be a long time, just imagine being at peak orgasm for three minutes.

( yeh! imagine it!)Eh, ah, you mean everyone doesn't have that experience?. .................(sheepishly avoids eye contact)................

[BestLion]

I see now on youtube idiotic people doing this 'scared weed' and joking about it etc..This stuff is no joke, and it needs to be taken very serious for the tip to open up fully. If anyone takes this it is best to have a spotter with you who WILL NOT laugh at you or joke about you, but will just guide..
I bought for the 1st time last year 30x -2 grams of Salvia. I had a freind who has taken DMT many times guide me as a shaman...we both take any DMT -hallucinogen trip serious..and never laugh or joke about the person on the trip.
I smoked 3 strong hits of 30x in a bong..And it hit me like a train..the first hit I didnt feel anything thus about 15 seconds after I exhaled the 1st hit..I hit again..holding it for about 20 seconds...this hit I felt something, but decided to do 1 more hit.."all 3 hits in a 2 minute space of time" Well I got hit like a train..at first if was a sort of bad trip..my body was twisting, turning, spinning, then I seen dark colors..a violet black colors. For the first 2 minutes I had a bit of a bad trip..I then laid down and let go. Let go of myself and surrendered instead of fighting to get out...
i then entered a hall..like with mirrors all around, and many stairways. The colors became a dark indigo and yellows. I seen shapes..of a hexagon nature.The entire trip was just odd. just seen shapes and colors..and moving things. and my body felt numb and twisted.
it was a trip of no other I have been on.
I think this stuff if anyone takes..it will want you to fight it! Don't fight! Just surrender..feel calm, relax, and open up..even if you fight it you cant run..and fighting is what induces bad trips. Also when i did this I had some music playing, a relaxing melody I found on youtube that is good for tripping. I think music can enhance the trip.
I've done this stuff 3 times now, and still have about 1 gram of it. I personally prefer magic shrooms over this stuff. it just is a different type of trip..I am a bit cautious of it. And next time I plan to do it.i plan to do it with Mozart playing the magic flute, and spend some time in mediation before entering the world of the Salvia!
BTW- DO NOT HIT THIS STUFF HARD! It will make you cough like crazy!
Also on the youtube vids of teens and idiots taking this stuff..they are talking and laughing..All my trips last thing i wanted to do was talk, and laugh! I tend to think most of them really never hit this stuff, but took a minor dose. Let em take 3 strong hits..they will cough..and they wont after that be laughing and talking! every-time I tripped on this stuff..what was running through my head was "where..what..who am i"

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

I found salvia just too plain weird to ever be able to get anything constructive from it. It maybe the most powerful but its not the most helpful. Nothing beats ayahausca with regards to solving your inner problems. You can learn to make ayahuasca. Thats what I did. The herbs are available from all over the web. Obviously only make it in a country where its legal to do so and make sure you have someone who knows what they are doing with you!

[blufire]

I found salvia just too plain weird to ever be able to get anything constructive from it. It maybe the most powerful but its not the most helpful. Nothing beats ayahausca with regards to solving your inner problems. You can learn to make ayahuasca. Thats what I did. The herbs are available from all over the web. Obviously only make it in a country where its legal to do so and make sure you have someone who knows what they are doing with you!

I have posted this story below before on PA . . . I hope I’m not stepping over the forum rules and guidelines by posting it again on this thread. But, I feel it is important since EYES WIDE OPEN spoke of ayahuasca and purchasing the ingredients easily through the internet that I provide a bit of firsthand knowledge about these ingredients and entheogens in general.
_____________________________________________________________________________

Because of discussion on this thread about entheogens and Ayahuasca (dmt) I feel compelled to relate a very personal experience I had while on an extended stay in Belize and Guatemala. I traveled there specifically to study rainforest medicinal plants but also to visit and study the Mayan ruins of Tikal.

I realize what I’m about to say is going to make several people upset and angry with me, but this is *Truth*. I do apologize for this.

During my experience in the Guatemalan jungle I struck up a friendship with an American woman who had lived in this remote village for almost twenty years. She was a “buffer” between all us curiosity seekers and travelers and the indigenous people and even though she had lived there a long time and had obviously earned the respect and love of the village people she was still deemed an outsider. (first clue)

Through my conversations with her and my personal experience this is what I learned . . .

The Elders or who many would consider “shaman” who use Ayahuasca (dmt) and other entheogens are very few. There is a very long process of being chosen for this honor, it involves bloodlines and a long involved rite in being chosen. Most importantly the Elders or Shaman have absolutely no desire for personal gain or selfish desires. When they perform the rituals which sometimes includes entheogens or dmt (ayahuasca) it is for the good of all people . . . alive and dead. The American woman told me that the people who desire or covet to hold the position or to become an elder or shaman are never even considered.

When I asked her about the people that traveled to the rainforests to have an authentic Ayahuasca experience and I might add pay rather large sums of money . . . . she smiled a very sad smile. She told me that the herbs and roots used for these people are close and mimic a dmt experience but mostly it is a very wild drug induced trip that generally involves a great deal of violent vomiting or a very bad “trip”. The individuals experience is varied according to their (the villagers) interpretation of how they view that person . . . . if they like you your “experience” is not quite so bad . . . . but if they find you distasteful and arrogant then you are in for a very bad trip. The indigenous people find this amusing and have the opinion that we are very stupid and arrogant.

And they are right . . . . how arrogant are we that we think just because we feel we have the right or desire to these very sacred rituals and magical plants that the knowledge will simply be handed over to us? Just the simple act of “purchasing” the plants, roots and vines to brew Ayahuasca and extract DMT utterly destroys ANY positive, spiritual or magical energy they may have contained . . . .talk about vibrating at a low frequency and THIS is the energy you are consuming.

I also learned that the actual ingredients and brewing process and rituals are very involved and are only known to a VERY select few and are handed down very carefully and selectively.

Most of the vines, plants and roots imported into the US and other countries are these “mimic” ingredients. I learned that the plants that are grow outside of the sacred areas of the rainforests are also considered impotent. Again, if these plants are impotent then how much more powerless are the plants that are grown in greenhouses and specifically for sale and mindless distribution? Even the simple medicinal herbs are highly protected by the indigenous peoples, so how much more do you think are the true entheogens and DMT inducing plants are protected?

The American woman told me that she did know that one of the herbs needed to finalize the activation of the pineal gland absolutely had to be used very very fresh. As in harvested and used within a few hours and also harvested during a certain cycle of growth. The chemical within the leaves breaks down very quickly and has to be extracted and consumed immediately.

I see all the “recipes” and brewing information online and it is ALL for very selfish reasons and desires. These very powerful and magical herbs and they are being used with little to no respect and obviously not for the GOOD of all people as the Elders do but only for personal gain or experience.

I emphatically ask that everyone think many times before using these chemicals and explore carefully your reasoning. I am not devaluing your personal experience but I would like for you to question yourself on the true meaning of why you desire this experience. Most of all please be very responsible with sharing what you feel to be truth with others . . . .if you do feel you have knowledge or wisdom then it becomes your responsibility to discern very carefully who you share that wisdom or knowledge with. That person you share with becomes your responsibility and you will carry within your own soul’s energy their soul’s energy when they act upon the information you give them. A very crude way to explain what I am trying to say is in Star Trek when Spock performs a mind meld with another individual . . . they become a part of each other or melded together.

On a final note I have to say that in my conversations with my friend and the indigenous village women that I very quickly understood that just as the people who come for the ayahuasca experience that my desire to gain personal and selfish knowledge about the rainforest medicinal plants was also an illusion. How arrogant and stupid was I that I felt this ancient wisdom and knowledge should be imparted to me because I wanted it and had paid quite a hefty sum.

I will never forget the hearty toothless good natured laughter of one particular older woman as I voiced the acknowledgment of my dismay and stupidity.

The wisdom I did gain though during my time in Belize and Guatemala and with the people who live in these jungles is much more valuable to me than the knowledge of the medicinal herbs . . . .and I will cherish and honor it always. .

[markenty13]

Hi all... i started becoming interested in salvia around 6 months ago....

the first few times i tried it, nothing much happened (5x and 40x Salvia extract).

I then purchased some 20x extract from a different company and well read below for my little journey...

I was waiting for my girlfriend to finish work, i had around 2 hours to spare so thought i would try the salvia, thinking it wouldnt do much...

i loaded up my little pipe and took a big inhale, held it for about 20 secs and released...

i then took another big inhale, as soon as it hit my lungs, everything went black, i dont even remember putting the pipe down.

i woke up on a random street, half cartoon half real life style. there was 2 people at the end of the street looking at me, but too far to see any features..

i became paranoid they were talking about me, so i turned around and started walking back... it felt like an eternity walking, but then i saw a black floating object (about chest height) in the air.

i thought this was my mobile phone so i went to grab it and it just dropped to the floor creating a massive spash as if i had spilt oil..

i could then see a golden type chair/bed which i lay down on and shut my eyes, saying over and over in my head that i want to go back...

i woke up again and found i was in my mums old bedroom at our old house.. everything was identical, even the street when i looked outside..
The next thing that happened was as if shutters started to come down from the roof around the boarder of the bedroom and the street started to appear again..

I found myself back on the same street, the same people there looking at me.. i kept thinking to myself that my girlfriend is going to come soon so i better try and get it out of this.

Then a faint womans voice said "go back to where you came from" so i turned around and saw the golden chair/bed thingy...

i lay back on it and prayed to come back...

sure enough i woke up in my bed with the covers over me absolutley sweating lol..

i was happy and scared at the same time about the experience...

i still have some of the same stuff left so may give it a whirl when i get chance..

:)

[blufire]

So what was the big mind blowing revelation or metaphysical wisdom revealed to you??? Or did you just want to take a powerful plant medicine??



Hi all... i started becoming interested in salvia around 6 months ago....

the first few times i tried it, nothing much happened (5x and 40x Salvia extract).

I then purchased some 20x extract from a different company and well read below for my little journey...

I was waiting for my girlfriend to finish work, i had around 2 hours to spare so thought i would try the salvia, thinking it wouldnt do much...

i loaded up my little pipe and took a big inhale, held it for about 20 secs and released...

i then took another big inhale, as soon as it hit my lungs, everything went black, i dont even remember putting the pipe down.

i woke up on a random street, half cartoon half real life style. there was 2 people at the end of the street looking at me, but too far to see any features..

i became paranoid they were talking about me, so i turned around and started walking back... it felt like an eternity walking, but then i saw a black floating object (about chest height) in the air.

i thought this was my mobile phone so i went to grab it and it just dropped to the floor creating a massive spash as if i had spilt oil..

i could then see a golden type chair/bed which i lay down on and shut my eyes, saying over and over in my head that i want to go back...

i woke up again and found i was in my mums old bedroom at our old house.. everything was identical, even the street when i looked outside..
The next thing that happened was as if shutters started to come down from the roof around the boarder of the bedroom and the street started to appear again..

I found myself back on the same street, the same people there looking at me.. i kept thinking to myself that my girlfriend is going to come soon so i better try and get it out of this.

Then a faint womans voice said "go back to where you came from" so i turned around and saw the golden chair/bed thingy...

i lay back on it and prayed to come back...

sure enough i woke up in my bed with the covers over me absolutley sweating lol..

i was happy and scared at the same time about the experience...

i still have some of the same stuff left so may give it a whirl when i get chance..

:)

[markenty13]

i just became interested in salvia whilst watching youtube videos about the subject.

there didnt appear to be any great revelations, just a rather weird experience.

i did purchase some ayahuasca ingredients, but these arent being touched until i am ready and certainly know what i am doing :)

[TargeT]

So what was the big mind blowing revelation or metaphysical wisdom revealed to you??? Or did you just want to take a powerful plant medicine??



immediate concious understanding is not neccisary, I have benifited from actions taken years ago & only recently aknowledged.

You may have taken some specially prepaired ayahuasca in a jungle, but that doesn't mean its the ONLY way, in fact I highly doubt it functions the same for every individual; don't judge her/him :)


Remember people, Salvia seems to be a REVERSE TOLERANCE substance.. (it works better the more you do, so start out with the highest potency & work backwards)

[Radi]

with salvia I had the most mystical expirience from all psychedelics I'v taken in my life! It was complete dejavu but complete shock also! my recomend is to have a lot of meditation before u try, a lot ego transformation. and u have to be ready to die. leave all fears behind, before u try it. and go to comfortable place without any people, only one to be next to u, the one u trust most. and try to smoke extract and smoke and hold until u went away from your body, because with small doses u may see some things but u may stay here in this dimention, and not make the breakthrough...
I recomend extract from x10 or x20 minimum, for full effects and smoke until u completely leave your body. if u are still able to smoke, then u are not there yet :)
U have to be ready to leave all behind before going there, because during the trip u may feel your are dying, and your ego panic and want to go back to the usual state and its fighting the trip and some pain and fears may come, but try to let go yourself whatever happens, and to be free from fear and just to let your ego die during the trip, and u will get much more far...
P.S that 5 minutes are 5 mins here in this time. in there it can be much more. because there time stops, and u enter totaly in different dimentions!
i think this plant have a lot to give us and to show us, but not everyone are ready to take it .

[blufire]

TargeT, you did not read my story very well. I did not take the ayahuasca . . . . I was there to study medicinal rainforest plants. But the conclusion to the story was I was just as arrogant and stupid to think that just because I wanted the wisdom and knowledge of these powerful plants that it should have just be handed to me. . . .

Read again please . . . .the herbs to make ayahuasca from the internet are most likely the “mimic” plants and roots . . . . not the true ayahuasca ingredients . . . same with salvia

I am not judging . . .I’m asking people to look a little deeper on their own personal motivation . . . that will inherently guide their outcome and personal path

Also if I were you I would be very careful in what information you very freely and causally give out . . . .there are very young and many naïve people that read what you say and suggest

If the energy (information) you radiate out is taken and is acted on and in the end is harmful to that soul then your own soul will carry a portion of the burden. . . . some call this karma . . . I believe it goes deeper than karma. This is why the very wise ones, true shaman and teachers do not freely give the wisdom they carry.






So what was the big mind blowing revelation or metaphysical wisdom revealed to you??? Or did you just want to take a powerful plant medicine??



immediate concious understanding is not neccisary, I have benifited from actions taken years ago & only recently aknowledged.

You may have taken some specially prepaired ayahuasca in a jungle, but that doesn't mean its the ONLY way, in fact I highly doubt it functions the same for every individual; don't judge her/him :)


Remember people, Salvia seems to be a REVERSE TOLERANCE substance.. (it works better the more you do, so start out with the highest potency & work backwards)

[TargeT]

TargeT, you did not read my story very well. I did not take the ayahuasca . . . . I was there to study medicinal rainforest plants. But the conclusion to the story was I was just as arrogant and stupid to think that just because I wanted the wisdom and knowledge of these powerful plants that it should have just be handed to me. . . .

Read again please . . . .the herbs to make ayahuasca from the internet are most likely the “mimic” plants and roots . . . . not the true ayahuasca ingredients . . . same with salvia

I am not judging . . .I’m asking people to look a little deeper on their own personal motivation . . . that will inherently guide their outcome and personal path
Also if I were you I would be very careful in what information you very freely and causally give out . . . .there are very young and many naïve people that read what you say and suggest

If the energy (information) you radiate out is taken and is acted on and in the end is harmful to that soul then your own soul will carry a portion of the burden. . . . some call this karma . . . I believe it goes deeper than karma. This is why the very wise ones, true shaman and teachers do not freely give the wisdom they carry.



Yeah, I mostly skimmed your story, but I got the attitude behind it pretty accurately.

Your saying "dont do this **** just for fun, its potentially dangerous & not the same as the stuff in the jungles".

I'm saying " take personal responsability, here's some information do with it as you will".

I'm in agreance with Alester Crowley in this sense:

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Love is the law, love under will.

Part of taking your personal power back is doing what you want and dealing with the consiquences on your own, personal responsability / reliablity...


Want to take a hallucinogen for "fun" or to "experinece" it? well GODAMN why else are humans alive but to experience reality? GO FOR IT! this is how I originaly did it and with out wanting it to it shifted my conciousness and made me understand how tenuous reality is.

I'm not going to tell someone to be careful, if you haven't realized that YOU are the protector of YOU & no one else is then you need to learn that lesson some way...

[leavesoftrees]

I think you'll like this one, then. It, in context..may also explain the behavior of real saliva vs the 'non' real versions.


http://blog.hasslberger.com/docs/CIBA_PATENTED_TECHNOLOGY.pdf

This is an amazing article. I wondered what would emerge if they did this with humans? There is a reference that they were under instructions not to experiment with the animal germ line. Who was giving the instructions?

[blufire]

I agree leavesoftrees this article is utterly fascinating . . .

And what a profound thought you put forth . . . .






I think you'll like this one, then. It, in context..may also explain the behavior of real saliva vs the 'non' real versions.


http://blog.hasslberger.com/docs/CIBA_PATENTED_TECHNOLOGY.pdf

This is an amazing article. I wondered what would emerge if they did this with humans? There is a reference that they were under instructions not to experiment with the animal germ line. Who was giving the instructions?

[Arrowwind]

Hi Blufire,
I did a quick search for the type of Salvia you mentioned, "Salvia Divinorum".
I found two strains, Blosser Strain and Wasson & Hoffman Strain.
Would you or anyone on this thread know what the difference of these two are, in terms of medicinal potency or the ease of growing them?


I bring forth the above question again. I have found several sites that appear to be reputable places to purchase living plants... thought I would try to get an overview on the above question here before I went to the storefronts to ask