blake
3rd January 2012, 23:04
Posted by blake (here)
Hello Unified Serenity
I agree with you. Human nature is very complicated, and often is very controlled to keep us divided on what in the larger lens could be called petty issues. I think many people have a good heart. But I also have noticed how easily humans can offend others with their words, as well as how easily they are offended by other’s viewpoints. There seems to be many innocent factors that often appear to set people off in responding rudely. But I also think that a human’s greed, their angled, or limited perspective, and other factors often override their basic goodness from always shining through. The connection to goodness, I believe, is often disconnected when emotions are allowed to rule; often causing faltering logic which is necessary for good communication, as well as the progress to understanding another’s viewpoint. I believe that without clearer objectivity, and respect in communication style, the goodness of the heart is automatically turned off, often causing damage to themselves, relationships, and important events; which in turn can add to the downfall of the active support of caring about the foundational supports for all of us: liberty, freedom and honest money. So the TPTB don’t want average people to learn to communicate effectively and with respect. They want people to be loose cannons in their speaking habits, when not only is it not necessity, but it hurts us all, and helps keeps us divided and alienated; and therefore easier to control. Any time one loses their temper, they lose in life, as the old saying goes. Can you see how that might be true in many circumstances?
I have noticed that in the last few decades there has been a bigger push, perhaps in a manipulated way, for people to be less formal with each other. People seem to want to immediately have an overt atmosphere of friendliness and compassion for each other, without first building up that relationship to actually have a bona fide relationship in which one would actually care about another’s well being in a personal way. How many times might you hear people say “ relax, we are all friends here”, when in reality they are far from any standard of friendship that you and I have. In other words, they want the appearance of familiarly, and closeness before they have actually earned it. This superficial closeness, I believe, often bring down people's defenses, opening the door for abrupt disappointments, hurts, and misunderstanding; not to mention artful manipulation and various levels of theft by those of the more greedy and artful nature. I believe that a more formal approach to people casually acquainted assists in keeping one defenses up for all concerned, while keeping one’s energy where it belongs, until a true and mutual beneficial relationship has been earned by all involved. When someone truly knows you, they often will not get put off by some differing viewpoint of yours, and will be more understanding and forgiving of your human moods and expressions. Plus, when you allow people to become close to you, you are convinced by some personal standard that they are not going to take advantage or try to undermine you, allowing you to feel more relaxed in letting your guard down a bit while thinking out loud. Where as someone who is “superficially friendly” can become quite suddenly very unfriendly, totally closed to any effort of understanding, when hearing of some view of yours, or something that you may, or may not believe. People like labels. Understanding another who has a different viewpoint takes energy few people want to give someone who they are not emotionally invested in. So people love to label other people, wrongly or rightly, on what they interpret another to say. And with labels come assumptions, and often prejudices that at the very least will narrow the lines of communications, if not totally close them. And when that happens it often opens the gates of rudeness or worse, closing down the heart light, which can immediately make an enemy in two seconds flat. How sad, but how often I have seen it play out that way.
I believe humans need to develop more discernment about the reality of personal motivations and interactions between people of casual acquaintances, and learn the benefits of formal and, courteous communications to all .
Someone recently said in a post that in debate class they teach you to attack the idea, not the person if you wish to have a meaningful debate. I think a person who attacks the person, instead of questioning their ideas; don’t have a solid grasp of their own ideas. They therefore react emotionally instead of using their intellect and logic to think the ideas through. I do believe that personally when one loses their temper, they lose in life. Emotion may set you on fire, but your head must rule the action you take, and the words that you choose if you want to improve conditions, and not deteriorate them.
But to address the other issue that you seem to be responding too, as far as what I think Americans need to be doing to level the playing field between the PTB and the rest of us is pretty simple, don’t patronize the services that they use to control us with.
I understand most people do not like this answer because it makes them responsible for their own behavior in contributing to the mess we are living in, in my opinion. And many rationalize that just because they know what is wrong, and they consider themselves awake, and because they might support Ron Paul, and go to protest marches and write Congress, they rationalize they are making a difference; when in reality, in my opinion, they appear to be doing exactly the same thing as those who are not awake are doing. They feed the systems that are enslaving them.
Spending ones limited resources and time on protesting marches and writing congress to me is busy work that those in power love to see us waste our time and resources on in the big picture . I believe in local control and local power. I believe in not patronizing that which is not in the best interest of liberty and honest money. I try to only buy American. It is very challenging. And I know for every time I buy American, there are millions of others not buying American because it’s cheaper and more convenient not to do so. But because the majority of people are going to rationalize their actions, that is not going to change how I live my life. I don’t follow the sheep mentality who rationalizes why they don’t mostly by local, and don’t buy American. In my opinion, those people who have used their money that way are economic terrorist to the local economy in which the live. They are cutting their own throats for convenience and with a very skewed viewpoint that in the end they are actually saving money. To me, those people who do not buy mostly local and American fall under the saying, penny wise and pound foolish, while sustaining the beast who controls the systems that they force us to support. America has become the company store. So I like to ask people, who are complaining about the economy, over the last decade or two, where they have been spending their money.
If one complains about Monsanto, and still doing the majority of their shopping in supermarkets, are they not are cutting their own throats and that of their families?
If people truly understand how banking works in the creation of money out of “thin air”, then why do they still write personal checks, make deposits, use credit cards, do electronic banking, etc etc? Obviously, if you have daily and weekly interaction with the bank, on any level, you are helping destroy your wealth and that of your neighbors, let alone the entire country. Yet, out of convenience, people, will complain, but will not stop feeding the monster who is choking them to death. Why is that?
If people didn’t stop using cash, the banks would have had a more difficult time boiling you all in that frog pot into a cashless society that we essentially have today, that soon will be more in your face.
If people don’t like the TSA, why do they continue to fly as often as they did before? How many have spent any time brainstorming other ways of travelling or other alternatives?
Private jets are nice for the rich to charter, and it is not likely that the rich will offer too many lifts in their private jets for the average person to get to their son’s wedding across the country, or to an important medical conference one may be speaking at. But if many people just stopped flying for a while, I do believe the airlines would demand a big change there. Not for freedom, or for the people, or for what is right, but for their own pocketbook. Yet the average person will not cut down on their travel, or using banks, or shopping at supermarkets, or buying food grown thousand of miles from where they live. Too many, even awake, people will not brainstorm how to make alternatives work for them. It is just too convenient to keep the status quo, to go along to get along, and to shop the company store. The average person will not support the local farmer or the local economy. The average person will complain about TSA but will continue to be where TSA is.
I’ll ask again, and I know it is hard; and I know it is inconvenient. But look in the mirror, how are you, in your daily life supporting the economy in such a way that you are cutting your own throat by not actively supporting honest money? It really doesn’t take much to take back control, if everyone who was awake actually walked their talk. It’s just that, in my opinion humans are very good at rationalizing, and want the convenience that those in power are enslaving us with. It is my opinion that every time an awake person buys a ticket to fly, every time an awake person forsakes cash for personal checks and electronic conveniences , everytime an awake person shops in a grocery store buying food from California if they live in Vermont, every time an awake person is willing to give out personal information, every time an awake person says “ I have nothing to hide”, every time an awake person loses their temper, they are not just digging their own grave but the graves of their children and every other American family.
Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
Very good comments with plenty of food for thought Mr. Davis, but please allows me to play devil’s advocate with a few of your statements/observations.
I’m interested in why you chose “honest money” as one of the “foundational supports” that we all care about as opposed to, say, peace? And what exactly do you mean by “honest money?” Is money derived from a job that enables a worker to feel no culpability or responsibility for building the weapons that are used to murder thousands of people “honest money” versus, say, taxpayer’s money given to the heads of giant banks or corporations by our “leaders” because the companies they ran into the ground are simply “too big to fail?” I’m trying to get a handle on what you would consider the corollary (i.e., “dishonest money”) and how you see them as different—and, perhaps more importantly, why you consider money so important.
I’m also interested in why you seem to feel that people wanting to immediately have an overt atmosphere of friendliness and compassion for each other is a bad thing or, at least, something that must be earned? In a world of seven billion people it is quite impossible for everyone to develop a deep and intimate relationship with one another and if that is the criteria that must be met before we can have a peaceful, meaningful and lasting friendship or relationship with one another then I think we are all doomed. We are a very aggressive and destructive species. We are taught to believe that the only way to resolve our differences is through incarceration or fighting and killing. We fight the war on crime, war on drugs, and war on terror. Even in our institutions for learning they teach us to “attack” the idea and not the person; as if this somehow softens the concept. Far be it that we should simply discuss and debate the merits of an idea. Maybe if we tried to be overtly friendly and compassionate first, the other party would reciprocate. Developing/earning a good relationship over a long period of time is no guarantee that the people with whom we put our confidence and trust in will not turn on us at some point in the future. Perhaps if we learned to be more loving, compassionate and caring up front it just might rub off on the majority and maybe then we could all truly live in peace and harmony. I think it’s pretty evident that distrusting everyone and requiring them to earn our trust and respect first before we are willing to cooperate and become friendly and caring people hasn’t worked out too well for humanity over the last few thousand years.
As for protesting and writing Congress being a waste of time, you could well be right. Although I think those things have raised awareness and gotten more people at least interested in what’s going on in this country and the world. And I’m all for starting at the grassroots/local level to help push for substantive change, but unless we start addressing the fundamental problem of people’s negative behaviors and ideologue beliefs, I doubt we’ll ever see any serious improvement in society.
And this brings us to why, on the surface, it seems so simple to solve so many of our problems like those you—and many others—have put forward about not playing their game any longer. All we need to do is stop putting our money in banks, use cash, buy locally, don’t buy gas or fly, don’t vote, don’t support any corporation that doesn’t put the people’s and the planet’s welfare first, etc. So if it’s so simple, why don’t we do it? We don’t do it precisely because of what I said in the previous paragraph. People must change their detrimental and intractable behaviors and belief systems. We all must open our minds and hearts and learn new ways of thinking and how to get along. We must question everything, yet respect other’s ideas and beliefs. We must learn how to resolve our differences not through condemnation, fighting and killing, but through dialog, understanding and cooperation--particularly where our mutual interests lie.
We have one planet with limited resources and it is in every man, woman, and child’s interest to treat the planet, its resources and all life with intelligence, respect and dignity. It is all our responsibility to do so and to ensure that those who do not are dealt with swiftly and effectively. And by that I don’t mean we must lock up or kill those who do not comply, but they do need to be removed from whatever position of power, control, or authority that enables them to continue to abuse the people, planet and/or its resources. Until we can get the majority of the population thinking in those terms, I believe we will continue to have more of the same until there are no resources, people or planet left to use and abuse.
Hello ceetee9
Thanks for your post. You have asked many questions. I will answer what I can for now. You asked:
‘I’m interested in why you chose “honest money” as one of the “foundational supports” that we all care about as opposed to, say, peace? And what exactly do you mean by “honest money?” Is money derived from a job that enables a worker to feel no culpability or responsibility for building the weapons that are used to murder thousands of people “honest money” versus, say, taxpayer’s money given to the heads of giant banks or corporations by our “leaders” because the companies they ran into the ground are simply “too big to fail?” I’m trying to get a handle on what you would consider the corollary (i.e., “dishonest money”) and how you see them as different—and, perhaps more importantly, why you consider money so important.”
ceetee9, In my opinion, anything a human needs living in the society that they choose or find themselves living in, is a foundational need. There is no one foundational need more important than another except when timing is involved. We all need air within three minutes, while we can live without water for three days, and food perhaps for three weeks. And although, I understand there are some who believe once can exist without food and get all they need with breath, I will make sure that my family, especially my children, have clean air, clean water and clean food as a foundation for a healthy body to live in this 3d world. And since I am not a person who likes to run out of the basic necessities and comforts of life, especially when a winter storm rages with high winds and three feet of snow, I am like the old farmers living on a homestead who stock their pantry well so weekly, or even monthly trips to the store is not necessary.
In the scale of truth and priorities, is peace more important than honest money? Well than depends again on timing. Are we talking about peace defined as not having a war with people, who will get tortured on every level with death encircling so many innocent humans, so that the irrational, greedy power players can make more money than they already have, whether it is honest, or dishonest money, then of course peace takes priority.
Peace is a fundamental need of humans. It makes us feel good and safe. It helps keeps our lives and everything that is important to us in tact. It frees us to take more chances in life because there are more safety nets in a peaceful world, a peaceful nation, a peaceful town, a peaceful neighborhood, a peaceful community, and most importantly a peaceful home, and a peaceful family. What peace surrounds you?
I am a realist. We do not live in a peaceful world. And from what I understand about history, the world has never been a peaceful place, at least for not very long. Peace? Do we even have peace on Avalon? I can not tell you how many battles I have witness on Avalon in the twelve months that I have been participating here. Are humans peaceful by nature? I think some are; I think most aren’t. If most people were peaceful by nature, why have so many humans been killed because of war? I understand that is a multilevel answer, with complicated perspectives. Still in generalities, it doesn’t speak highly of any evidence that humans are choosing to peacefully co exist in this 3d world. So being a practical human, looking at the world as it is, and choosing for me to try and provide a peaceful existence for my family, I can’t accomplish that goal realistically without money, and preferably honest money. Money allows me to live in a beautiful, safe, comfortable house, stocked with the necessities and comforts of life, in a beautiful, safe part of the world. Money assists me, along with my basic common sense, and good choices, to surround myself with peace. Unlike water, air and food, peace doesn’t come from Mother Nature; it comes from humans. Mother Nature may freely give of her treasures, but humans are not so generous. Just look around at the interactions here on Avalon, over the past year, I believe I need not go any further to make my point about peace. But yes, peace is a foundational need in order to lead the good life.
My definition of “honest money”, is money that can’t be manipulated, and maintains it value, instead of having its value manipulated to drop year from year, or even month to month thereby losing its purchasing power. When money that I have worked for looses it purchasing power, it negates the value of my work and time that I invested in procuring my dollars.
Dishonest money is thievery because it doesn’t maintain its purchasing power. So when I agree to work for dishonest money, I am knowingly being robbed weekly since my wages seldom will be raised to keep up with the lost of purchasing power week to week, while I still invest the same amount of hours in trade for the fiat dollars. The theft of one’s invested wealth is even more in one’s face with the lost of the purchasing power of one’s savings
If we make a deal that you are going to pay me a barrel of corn each week for ten hours a week of my labor, and that barrel of corn remains the same size, with the same amount of corn in it from generation to generation, that is honest money. That has a value that I can count on and pass down to the next generation with the same purchasing power that I worked for. My family can make sound choices based on the knowledge of how long that barrel of corn will feed us. If however, I agree to work for a barrel of corn for ten hours of work every week, and that barrel of corn keeps getting smaller and smaller, like our fiat dollars, to the point that it only feeds my family for one day instead of seven days, that is dishonest money and is robbing me blind by continuing to take my ten hours of real work, while giving me less and less purchasing power for that same work.
When we had honest money in America, the dollar was not fiat money, and it maintained its purchasing power over the generations. Real money, honest money was based on exact weight measurements of gold or silver. The dollar, at the time of the Constitution, had a specific definition that everyone took for granted. The dollar was defined as a coin containing 371.25 grains (troy) of fine pure silver. How does the American now define a dollar in 2012? And how long does that fiat federal reserve note keeps it value or purchasing power? All fiat money is dishonest money.
If I took one hundred dollars with the true definition of a dollar as known by the common American back in 1800, and put it in a chest to save. And then in 1870 my grandchildren found that chest, that honest money would have the same purchasing power for my grandchildren in 1870 that it had for me in 1800. That is what I call honest money. We don’t have what I call honest money today because it was replaced by the fiat system that is presently crashing. If anyone is unfamiliar with constitutional money, and the history of money in America, the leading expert is Dr Edwin Vieira. Just look him up on the internet if you are interested.
You brought up some fine examples of what could be defined as honest money, but I probably would define those other examples that you brought up as clean or dirty money. Honest or dishonest money, by my definition, can be clean or dirty according to how you use your money morally. I certainly wouldn’t direct my silver or gold coins to finance a war, or to deliberately support any organization that was hurting humans especially for profit.
How one directs their money is important, because in this 3d world money is power. If one buys at Walmart, they are using the power of their money to hurt Americans. If one doesn’t buy local, one is using their purchasing power to help someone else’s economy prosper rather than the economy of their own community. I want my community to be strong, that is good for me and good for my family; so I buy local!
Money needs to be respected, and used wisely; and it must be kept honest so the average person will not lose their purchasing power, or the investment that they made in putting real time and real work in getting those dollars.
You ask me why money is so important. I will keep this short because this is already a very long post. Money shouldn’t be so important but it is. Money is the controlling factor in many areas of our lives. Money, in many powerful ways, does make the world go around. Money can help make or break Ron Paul being elected or not elected. I won’t list all that money can do, because it is so obvious in how money controls all of us one way or another in this real 3d world.
A philosophical discussion of the importance of money and just using money as it was meant to be used, would be a fun discussion. But in today’s world, I will acknowledge the importance of money and calculate its power with other factors when I make life decisions. I like to eat well. I like to have heat in my home, and a lot of other things that money buys for me and my family. Chopping wood and carrying water can be fun at one age, but not so fun at another age.
I will stop here and will try to answer some more of your questions a tomorrow.
Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
Hello Unified Serenity
I agree with you. Human nature is very complicated, and often is very controlled to keep us divided on what in the larger lens could be called petty issues. I think many people have a good heart. But I also have noticed how easily humans can offend others with their words, as well as how easily they are offended by other’s viewpoints. There seems to be many innocent factors that often appear to set people off in responding rudely. But I also think that a human’s greed, their angled, or limited perspective, and other factors often override their basic goodness from always shining through. The connection to goodness, I believe, is often disconnected when emotions are allowed to rule; often causing faltering logic which is necessary for good communication, as well as the progress to understanding another’s viewpoint. I believe that without clearer objectivity, and respect in communication style, the goodness of the heart is automatically turned off, often causing damage to themselves, relationships, and important events; which in turn can add to the downfall of the active support of caring about the foundational supports for all of us: liberty, freedom and honest money. So the TPTB don’t want average people to learn to communicate effectively and with respect. They want people to be loose cannons in their speaking habits, when not only is it not necessity, but it hurts us all, and helps keeps us divided and alienated; and therefore easier to control. Any time one loses their temper, they lose in life, as the old saying goes. Can you see how that might be true in many circumstances?
I have noticed that in the last few decades there has been a bigger push, perhaps in a manipulated way, for people to be less formal with each other. People seem to want to immediately have an overt atmosphere of friendliness and compassion for each other, without first building up that relationship to actually have a bona fide relationship in which one would actually care about another’s well being in a personal way. How many times might you hear people say “ relax, we are all friends here”, when in reality they are far from any standard of friendship that you and I have. In other words, they want the appearance of familiarly, and closeness before they have actually earned it. This superficial closeness, I believe, often bring down people's defenses, opening the door for abrupt disappointments, hurts, and misunderstanding; not to mention artful manipulation and various levels of theft by those of the more greedy and artful nature. I believe that a more formal approach to people casually acquainted assists in keeping one defenses up for all concerned, while keeping one’s energy where it belongs, until a true and mutual beneficial relationship has been earned by all involved. When someone truly knows you, they often will not get put off by some differing viewpoint of yours, and will be more understanding and forgiving of your human moods and expressions. Plus, when you allow people to become close to you, you are convinced by some personal standard that they are not going to take advantage or try to undermine you, allowing you to feel more relaxed in letting your guard down a bit while thinking out loud. Where as someone who is “superficially friendly” can become quite suddenly very unfriendly, totally closed to any effort of understanding, when hearing of some view of yours, or something that you may, or may not believe. People like labels. Understanding another who has a different viewpoint takes energy few people want to give someone who they are not emotionally invested in. So people love to label other people, wrongly or rightly, on what they interpret another to say. And with labels come assumptions, and often prejudices that at the very least will narrow the lines of communications, if not totally close them. And when that happens it often opens the gates of rudeness or worse, closing down the heart light, which can immediately make an enemy in two seconds flat. How sad, but how often I have seen it play out that way.
I believe humans need to develop more discernment about the reality of personal motivations and interactions between people of casual acquaintances, and learn the benefits of formal and, courteous communications to all .
Someone recently said in a post that in debate class they teach you to attack the idea, not the person if you wish to have a meaningful debate. I think a person who attacks the person, instead of questioning their ideas; don’t have a solid grasp of their own ideas. They therefore react emotionally instead of using their intellect and logic to think the ideas through. I do believe that personally when one loses their temper, they lose in life. Emotion may set you on fire, but your head must rule the action you take, and the words that you choose if you want to improve conditions, and not deteriorate them.
But to address the other issue that you seem to be responding too, as far as what I think Americans need to be doing to level the playing field between the PTB and the rest of us is pretty simple, don’t patronize the services that they use to control us with.
I understand most people do not like this answer because it makes them responsible for their own behavior in contributing to the mess we are living in, in my opinion. And many rationalize that just because they know what is wrong, and they consider themselves awake, and because they might support Ron Paul, and go to protest marches and write Congress, they rationalize they are making a difference; when in reality, in my opinion, they appear to be doing exactly the same thing as those who are not awake are doing. They feed the systems that are enslaving them.
Spending ones limited resources and time on protesting marches and writing congress to me is busy work that those in power love to see us waste our time and resources on in the big picture . I believe in local control and local power. I believe in not patronizing that which is not in the best interest of liberty and honest money. I try to only buy American. It is very challenging. And I know for every time I buy American, there are millions of others not buying American because it’s cheaper and more convenient not to do so. But because the majority of people are going to rationalize their actions, that is not going to change how I live my life. I don’t follow the sheep mentality who rationalizes why they don’t mostly by local, and don’t buy American. In my opinion, those people who have used their money that way are economic terrorist to the local economy in which the live. They are cutting their own throats for convenience and with a very skewed viewpoint that in the end they are actually saving money. To me, those people who do not buy mostly local and American fall under the saying, penny wise and pound foolish, while sustaining the beast who controls the systems that they force us to support. America has become the company store. So I like to ask people, who are complaining about the economy, over the last decade or two, where they have been spending their money.
If one complains about Monsanto, and still doing the majority of their shopping in supermarkets, are they not are cutting their own throats and that of their families?
If people truly understand how banking works in the creation of money out of “thin air”, then why do they still write personal checks, make deposits, use credit cards, do electronic banking, etc etc? Obviously, if you have daily and weekly interaction with the bank, on any level, you are helping destroy your wealth and that of your neighbors, let alone the entire country. Yet, out of convenience, people, will complain, but will not stop feeding the monster who is choking them to death. Why is that?
If people didn’t stop using cash, the banks would have had a more difficult time boiling you all in that frog pot into a cashless society that we essentially have today, that soon will be more in your face.
If people don’t like the TSA, why do they continue to fly as often as they did before? How many have spent any time brainstorming other ways of travelling or other alternatives?
Private jets are nice for the rich to charter, and it is not likely that the rich will offer too many lifts in their private jets for the average person to get to their son’s wedding across the country, or to an important medical conference one may be speaking at. But if many people just stopped flying for a while, I do believe the airlines would demand a big change there. Not for freedom, or for the people, or for what is right, but for their own pocketbook. Yet the average person will not cut down on their travel, or using banks, or shopping at supermarkets, or buying food grown thousand of miles from where they live. Too many, even awake, people will not brainstorm how to make alternatives work for them. It is just too convenient to keep the status quo, to go along to get along, and to shop the company store. The average person will not support the local farmer or the local economy. The average person will complain about TSA but will continue to be where TSA is.
I’ll ask again, and I know it is hard; and I know it is inconvenient. But look in the mirror, how are you, in your daily life supporting the economy in such a way that you are cutting your own throat by not actively supporting honest money? It really doesn’t take much to take back control, if everyone who was awake actually walked their talk. It’s just that, in my opinion humans are very good at rationalizing, and want the convenience that those in power are enslaving us with. It is my opinion that every time an awake person buys a ticket to fly, every time an awake person forsakes cash for personal checks and electronic conveniences , everytime an awake person shops in a grocery store buying food from California if they live in Vermont, every time an awake person is willing to give out personal information, every time an awake person says “ I have nothing to hide”, every time an awake person loses their temper, they are not just digging their own grave but the graves of their children and every other American family.
Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
Very good comments with plenty of food for thought Mr. Davis, but please allows me to play devil’s advocate with a few of your statements/observations.
I’m interested in why you chose “honest money” as one of the “foundational supports” that we all care about as opposed to, say, peace? And what exactly do you mean by “honest money?” Is money derived from a job that enables a worker to feel no culpability or responsibility for building the weapons that are used to murder thousands of people “honest money” versus, say, taxpayer’s money given to the heads of giant banks or corporations by our “leaders” because the companies they ran into the ground are simply “too big to fail?” I’m trying to get a handle on what you would consider the corollary (i.e., “dishonest money”) and how you see them as different—and, perhaps more importantly, why you consider money so important.
I’m also interested in why you seem to feel that people wanting to immediately have an overt atmosphere of friendliness and compassion for each other is a bad thing or, at least, something that must be earned? In a world of seven billion people it is quite impossible for everyone to develop a deep and intimate relationship with one another and if that is the criteria that must be met before we can have a peaceful, meaningful and lasting friendship or relationship with one another then I think we are all doomed. We are a very aggressive and destructive species. We are taught to believe that the only way to resolve our differences is through incarceration or fighting and killing. We fight the war on crime, war on drugs, and war on terror. Even in our institutions for learning they teach us to “attack” the idea and not the person; as if this somehow softens the concept. Far be it that we should simply discuss and debate the merits of an idea. Maybe if we tried to be overtly friendly and compassionate first, the other party would reciprocate. Developing/earning a good relationship over a long period of time is no guarantee that the people with whom we put our confidence and trust in will not turn on us at some point in the future. Perhaps if we learned to be more loving, compassionate and caring up front it just might rub off on the majority and maybe then we could all truly live in peace and harmony. I think it’s pretty evident that distrusting everyone and requiring them to earn our trust and respect first before we are willing to cooperate and become friendly and caring people hasn’t worked out too well for humanity over the last few thousand years.
As for protesting and writing Congress being a waste of time, you could well be right. Although I think those things have raised awareness and gotten more people at least interested in what’s going on in this country and the world. And I’m all for starting at the grassroots/local level to help push for substantive change, but unless we start addressing the fundamental problem of people’s negative behaviors and ideologue beliefs, I doubt we’ll ever see any serious improvement in society.
And this brings us to why, on the surface, it seems so simple to solve so many of our problems like those you—and many others—have put forward about not playing their game any longer. All we need to do is stop putting our money in banks, use cash, buy locally, don’t buy gas or fly, don’t vote, don’t support any corporation that doesn’t put the people’s and the planet’s welfare first, etc. So if it’s so simple, why don’t we do it? We don’t do it precisely because of what I said in the previous paragraph. People must change their detrimental and intractable behaviors and belief systems. We all must open our minds and hearts and learn new ways of thinking and how to get along. We must question everything, yet respect other’s ideas and beliefs. We must learn how to resolve our differences not through condemnation, fighting and killing, but through dialog, understanding and cooperation--particularly where our mutual interests lie.
We have one planet with limited resources and it is in every man, woman, and child’s interest to treat the planet, its resources and all life with intelligence, respect and dignity. It is all our responsibility to do so and to ensure that those who do not are dealt with swiftly and effectively. And by that I don’t mean we must lock up or kill those who do not comply, but they do need to be removed from whatever position of power, control, or authority that enables them to continue to abuse the people, planet and/or its resources. Until we can get the majority of the population thinking in those terms, I believe we will continue to have more of the same until there are no resources, people or planet left to use and abuse.
Hello ceetee9
Thanks for your post. You have asked many questions. I will answer what I can for now. You asked:
‘I’m interested in why you chose “honest money” as one of the “foundational supports” that we all care about as opposed to, say, peace? And what exactly do you mean by “honest money?” Is money derived from a job that enables a worker to feel no culpability or responsibility for building the weapons that are used to murder thousands of people “honest money” versus, say, taxpayer’s money given to the heads of giant banks or corporations by our “leaders” because the companies they ran into the ground are simply “too big to fail?” I’m trying to get a handle on what you would consider the corollary (i.e., “dishonest money”) and how you see them as different—and, perhaps more importantly, why you consider money so important.”
ceetee9, In my opinion, anything a human needs living in the society that they choose or find themselves living in, is a foundational need. There is no one foundational need more important than another except when timing is involved. We all need air within three minutes, while we can live without water for three days, and food perhaps for three weeks. And although, I understand there are some who believe once can exist without food and get all they need with breath, I will make sure that my family, especially my children, have clean air, clean water and clean food as a foundation for a healthy body to live in this 3d world. And since I am not a person who likes to run out of the basic necessities and comforts of life, especially when a winter storm rages with high winds and three feet of snow, I am like the old farmers living on a homestead who stock their pantry well so weekly, or even monthly trips to the store is not necessary.
In the scale of truth and priorities, is peace more important than honest money? Well than depends again on timing. Are we talking about peace defined as not having a war with people, who will get tortured on every level with death encircling so many innocent humans, so that the irrational, greedy power players can make more money than they already have, whether it is honest, or dishonest money, then of course peace takes priority.
Peace is a fundamental need of humans. It makes us feel good and safe. It helps keeps our lives and everything that is important to us in tact. It frees us to take more chances in life because there are more safety nets in a peaceful world, a peaceful nation, a peaceful town, a peaceful neighborhood, a peaceful community, and most importantly a peaceful home, and a peaceful family. What peace surrounds you?
I am a realist. We do not live in a peaceful world. And from what I understand about history, the world has never been a peaceful place, at least for not very long. Peace? Do we even have peace on Avalon? I can not tell you how many battles I have witness on Avalon in the twelve months that I have been participating here. Are humans peaceful by nature? I think some are; I think most aren’t. If most people were peaceful by nature, why have so many humans been killed because of war? I understand that is a multilevel answer, with complicated perspectives. Still in generalities, it doesn’t speak highly of any evidence that humans are choosing to peacefully co exist in this 3d world. So being a practical human, looking at the world as it is, and choosing for me to try and provide a peaceful existence for my family, I can’t accomplish that goal realistically without money, and preferably honest money. Money allows me to live in a beautiful, safe, comfortable house, stocked with the necessities and comforts of life, in a beautiful, safe part of the world. Money assists me, along with my basic common sense, and good choices, to surround myself with peace. Unlike water, air and food, peace doesn’t come from Mother Nature; it comes from humans. Mother Nature may freely give of her treasures, but humans are not so generous. Just look around at the interactions here on Avalon, over the past year, I believe I need not go any further to make my point about peace. But yes, peace is a foundational need in order to lead the good life.
My definition of “honest money”, is money that can’t be manipulated, and maintains it value, instead of having its value manipulated to drop year from year, or even month to month thereby losing its purchasing power. When money that I have worked for looses it purchasing power, it negates the value of my work and time that I invested in procuring my dollars.
Dishonest money is thievery because it doesn’t maintain its purchasing power. So when I agree to work for dishonest money, I am knowingly being robbed weekly since my wages seldom will be raised to keep up with the lost of purchasing power week to week, while I still invest the same amount of hours in trade for the fiat dollars. The theft of one’s invested wealth is even more in one’s face with the lost of the purchasing power of one’s savings
If we make a deal that you are going to pay me a barrel of corn each week for ten hours a week of my labor, and that barrel of corn remains the same size, with the same amount of corn in it from generation to generation, that is honest money. That has a value that I can count on and pass down to the next generation with the same purchasing power that I worked for. My family can make sound choices based on the knowledge of how long that barrel of corn will feed us. If however, I agree to work for a barrel of corn for ten hours of work every week, and that barrel of corn keeps getting smaller and smaller, like our fiat dollars, to the point that it only feeds my family for one day instead of seven days, that is dishonest money and is robbing me blind by continuing to take my ten hours of real work, while giving me less and less purchasing power for that same work.
When we had honest money in America, the dollar was not fiat money, and it maintained its purchasing power over the generations. Real money, honest money was based on exact weight measurements of gold or silver. The dollar, at the time of the Constitution, had a specific definition that everyone took for granted. The dollar was defined as a coin containing 371.25 grains (troy) of fine pure silver. How does the American now define a dollar in 2012? And how long does that fiat federal reserve note keeps it value or purchasing power? All fiat money is dishonest money.
If I took one hundred dollars with the true definition of a dollar as known by the common American back in 1800, and put it in a chest to save. And then in 1870 my grandchildren found that chest, that honest money would have the same purchasing power for my grandchildren in 1870 that it had for me in 1800. That is what I call honest money. We don’t have what I call honest money today because it was replaced by the fiat system that is presently crashing. If anyone is unfamiliar with constitutional money, and the history of money in America, the leading expert is Dr Edwin Vieira. Just look him up on the internet if you are interested.
You brought up some fine examples of what could be defined as honest money, but I probably would define those other examples that you brought up as clean or dirty money. Honest or dishonest money, by my definition, can be clean or dirty according to how you use your money morally. I certainly wouldn’t direct my silver or gold coins to finance a war, or to deliberately support any organization that was hurting humans especially for profit.
How one directs their money is important, because in this 3d world money is power. If one buys at Walmart, they are using the power of their money to hurt Americans. If one doesn’t buy local, one is using their purchasing power to help someone else’s economy prosper rather than the economy of their own community. I want my community to be strong, that is good for me and good for my family; so I buy local!
Money needs to be respected, and used wisely; and it must be kept honest so the average person will not lose their purchasing power, or the investment that they made in putting real time and real work in getting those dollars.
You ask me why money is so important. I will keep this short because this is already a very long post. Money shouldn’t be so important but it is. Money is the controlling factor in many areas of our lives. Money, in many powerful ways, does make the world go around. Money can help make or break Ron Paul being elected or not elected. I won’t list all that money can do, because it is so obvious in how money controls all of us one way or another in this real 3d world.
A philosophical discussion of the importance of money and just using money as it was meant to be used, would be a fun discussion. But in today’s world, I will acknowledge the importance of money and calculate its power with other factors when I make life decisions. I like to eat well. I like to have heat in my home, and a lot of other things that money buys for me and my family. Chopping wood and carrying water can be fun at one age, but not so fun at another age.
I will stop here and will try to answer some more of your questions a tomorrow.
Sincerely,
Mr. Davis