The consequences of peak oil

[baddbob]

Right now, I'm a peak oil agnostic.

One the one hand, I know the oil companies and the news media morons who report on them are full of s*** 99% of the time and completely unreliable.

On the other hand, could an entire global industry be faking its production output? Could there really be vast reserves of oil still undiscovered or even more surprisingly discovered and being deliberately hidden?

I don't know.

But I do know that if the peak oil hypothesis is correct "business as usual" is over.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wcd9kn26Sek&feature=player_embedded

[BestLion]

Well I was on a peak oil forum back in 01. I know much of this theory also since I worked for 11 years in the US Army in the petrol aspect. i can say peak oil-peak energy is very real and will hit around 2014 time with energy shortages.The USA imports 50% of its oil..they once were a oil exporter..but use near 20 mbd oil..produce about 9 mbd. A nation that has come to be totally dependent on oil, a car- cargo caulture.
Next decade the piper will pay a visit to the USA. I expect civil war and mass die off.
my advise live it up now...come around 2021 will be no money, no cash, no pension, and no food.

[BestLion]

I was a petrol expert and a SFC in the US Army in 2003 Iraq crisis. I was called up "I was in the reserves..and worked as a civilian for the army. We went to Iraq in the summer on 2003..my unit went to the 'triangle of the Iraq Iran oil fields" and repaired oil instillation..after 4 months they sent us home..I then was discharged from my contract in 2004.
Peak oil is very real..what happens after..i hope im not alive!

[modwiz]

The world is awash in petroleum products, the biggest problem for oil companies is suppressing new sources while trying to keep inflated prices. The Iranian 'threat' has as much to do with oil as....make something up. Nigeria has the alphabet creeps stirring up a civil war to keep their considerable resources out of the marketplace. They have enough natural gas to supply Europe for 300 years at a quarter of the price Russia is charging them. Russia doesn't like that very much.
Here is an article that mentions this as well as so other juicy alternative intelligence. Great site for real news of the world:http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/01/03/europe-the-liars-club-who-really-owes-the-money/

[WhiteFeather]

So lets utilize the hydrogen powered technology HHO cell. I'm ordering an HHO cell soon from ebay. Gonna give it a whirl. See what happens.

[childs hood end]

Like an engine without oil,,,,,,, will the world (or` is the world about to) SEIZE

Plenty of gas off our shores too`` enough to sort our financial crisis,

To bad our goverment sold it true backhanders,

Peace

[TargeT]

Well I was on a peak oil forum back in 01. I know much of this theory also since I worked for 11 years in the US Army in the petrol aspect. i can say peak oil-peak energy is very real and will hit around 2014 time with energy shortages.The USA imports 50% of its oil..they once were a oil exporter..but use near 20 mbd oil..produce about 9 mbd. A nation that has come to be totally dependent on oil, a car- cargo caulture.
Next decade the piper will pay a visit to the USA. I expect civil war and mass die off.
my advise live it up now...come around 2021 will be no money, no cash, no pension, and no food.

I completely disagree. we stopped exporting oil because we learned that the "easy stuff" (light sweet crude) was going to run out, so we just stopped PRODUCING.. there's still an estimated trillion+ barrel feild under the rockymountain range.. Oil wells have been shown to refill themselfs.

we may run out of the easy to produce oil, might have to actually pump it out of the ground instead of just drill a hole and catch what comes spraying out.... Oil will never run out & I'm more than convinced of that.

Oil is under the false scarcity paradiegm that everything else is forced under & its just as false...

(of course there is MUCh more to this, the history of how we set up OPEC & tied oil to the dollar, there by setting up the taxation system for our empire.... but thats a long one)


So lets utilize the hydrogen powered technology HHO cell. I'm ordering an HHO cell soon from ebay. Gonna give it a whirl. See what happens.


HHO (Browns gas) generators work to more efficently burn your gasoline, you should see some sort of improvement

[WhiteFeather]

Aka Petrol Dollars. This is what runs the ponzi machine.

[WhiteFeather]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Py8QYt54EpE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Py8QYt54EpE

[TargeT]

Great site for real news of the world:http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/01/03/europe-the-liars-club-who-really-owes-the-money/

That site shows the UK at 400% debt to GDP???

HOLY ****!

the rest of the artical had a lot of logical fallacy & unsubstanciated info..

wikipidea ( i know...) lists GDP of the UK at 75% debt to GDP ratio (which I do NOT believe!)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_public_debt

[chancy]

PEAK OIL IS MADE UP!!
IF you buy into this fantasy then you deserve to pay $10 dollars per litre for gas and $15 dollars per litre for a bi product called diesel fuel.

Hello Everyone: I always find it amazing that people buy into this peak oil bolonie.
I used to work in the oil patch and we hit gas or oil 8 out of 10 wells. One day I asked one of the engineers what the oil companies were going to do with the vast amount of reserves we were capping? (Remember I am only on one oil rig and there's thousands and thousands and thousands of oil rigs capping oil wells around the world for later use.)
He told me that it's not needed now and when the price gets upto $5 per gallon or more then they might let alittle bit out slowly. Making sure the price is always high and everyone believes we're running out of the black gold.
Remember Paul Harvey? One of his stories was about how we were going to run out of gas very soon. We'd have to stop running our cars. Quit making cars and engines. Start riding our bikes and walking everywhere....the rest of the story was this was being told in 1928 to everyone.
Case in point please refer to this video "The origin of Oil" by Leroy Fletcher
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stnMHgEUrnc

By the way the Alberta tar sands has enough oil for 300 years of usage for Canada and the US plus exporting all over the world. What people don't know is that Saskatchewan has the biggest amount of the tar sands and it hasn't been touched. Welcome to the scam of peak oil.
chancy

[BestLion]

I completely disagree. we stopped exporting oil
I said IMPORTS..They import over 50% of light sweet crude
here is the chart of the 52% of oil they import and where as of 2007
I also said once exported oil..that stopped in the 70s.please read better. Once means pre-1970..ie WW2 they exported oil..mainly in high grade aviation fuel to Russian..and in the 50s exported to nations. Now the USA is in oil decline and has to import 52+% of all its oil

[BestLion]

Oil wells have been shown to refill themselfs.
Really? What are you talking about show me 1 case..please! I can show you 1,000s of closed oil field in many US states that are completely exhumed, and the towns are now ghost-towns!.

[STATIC]

The only concequence I can really see as a result of "peak oil", are peak oil prices.
Even if we had all the oil that we could ever use they would still figure out a way to make maximum profit.
Exxon posted a 10.7 billion$ earning for the first quarter of 2011 wich was 69% higher than 2010. Doesn't seem as though they are having any trouble with peak oil...

[BestLion]

PEAK OIL IS MADE UP!!
Thats why gas is now at 5 USD a gallon in the USA and was at 20c a gallon'90c modern day money in 1966" That why the USA went from 11 mbd to 9 mbd day from 1990s to 2012..Saudia Arabia dropped in oil 1 mdb exports..and is now no longer the worlds leader in oil production Russia is....If peak oil is made up then why are all these nations that have been pumping for years in decline? think they would be producing more..more=more money...
Believe what you want..but the piper will never the less come for his payment.

[BestLion]

The only concequence I can really see as a result of "peak oil", are peak oil prices.
Thats optimistic. i see the end result as a massive die off of humanity back to 1 billion people. i worked with oil in Iraq..it was my job in the US Army. I can tell you something if the world don't get a new energy replacement SOON..then next decade will be pure hell, and around 2025++ will be mass die off of humanity due to oil and natural gas decline. I dont like to talk of this subject cause its so damn depressing..im just living my life to the fullest now..I only hope my daughter will survive..its part of the reason I relocated to Ukraine. I'm 36 i hope to live to be 50 but i doubt I will..even in the breadbasket of Europe where I produce 50% of my own food..I dont think I'll survive the coming peak oil crisis. So i am trying to live life now..explore.vacation, spend time with my girls, and enjoy life.. 2012 wont get us but peak oil surely will!

[chancy]

Hello Everyone:
Please refer back to post #11. There is NO peak oil.
Doesn't matter if the opec countries are pumping less. We do NOT need middle eastern oil in north america period.
chancy

[Seikou-Kishi]

I wonder how much oil the war machine consumes.

[jackovesk]

No such thing as 'Peak Oil' never was..!

But there is such a thing as 'Abiotic Oil' which in itself and is the equivalent of Mother Earth's own blood replenishing the mantle...

http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/Theory/SustainableOil/

The 'Abiotic Oil' Controversy

http://www.rense.com/general58/biot.htm

PS - If you believe the 'Fossil Fuel' Story that has been spoonfed to you over the years by the PTW, I've got a bridge in Sydney up for sale..!

[Second Son]

Two key things, both already mentioned here... with simple hydrogen technology peak oil is a non-issue, and there is a distinct possibility that we have abiotic oil, which means it might take years, and not millennia to form.

I am fast becoming a proponent of a very fast geophysical changes... the grand canyon formed in months, mountains thrusting upwards in years, valleys sinking in days as a result in the earths axis moving, and all of the intense geothermal activity resulting in an increasingly agitated sun creating oil VERY quickly. Old, dried up wells are producing again, and according to many experts (and Modwiz ;) ) there are more untapped reserves than we will ever know.

[Second Son]

Best Lion... I really enjoy your posts... even this one. I would however like to warn you that just regurgitating "facts" taught to you by the PTB, without doing your own research is not going to topple this paradigm we all so desperately need to shed before we can move on to a better way.

Do a google search for "abiotic oil". They are hitting oil at depths which make the creation of petroleum from decomposed carboniferous matter rather improbable.

We have been taught the wrong history, the wrong astrophysics, the wrong meteorology, the wrong climatology, the wrong electronics... ad infinitum. We also know that the hydrogen car could be in world wide production, hell, tinkering do-it-yourselfers are building them all over. SO WE KNOW BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT THAT THE PTB WILL DO AND SAY ANYTHING TO MAINTAIN THEIR STRANGLEHOLD ON THE WORLD'S OIL. To portray something as fact without proof, and without researching other alternative (and just as viable) theories, seems to be defeating the purpose of this forum.

It would seem to me that the "massive die off" which your military handlers described is Prince Philip's and Bill Gate's wildest eugenics wet-dream, and well laid out in the Georgia Guidestones. "As it is written, so it shall be" Not as long I am drawing breath, thank you very much.

IMHO, of course.

[sandy]

If or when Iran blocks the Strait and oil tankers can't get through the public at large will panic because of the propaganda around oil scarcityand dastardly fallout of no oil.

WWIII (although started already) will be publicly approved and on display for all to experience, then the real fallout!! will happen and North America will become radiated throughout>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>IMHO :)

[STATIC]

If or when Iran blocks the Strait and oil tankers can't get through the public at large will panic because of the propaganda around oil scarcity

That is a probable scenario, which is why it is important to show people that the oil economy is not the only option.

[applecrusher1992]

Peak oil is a myth. There is so much oil out there that they hide from you that if we wanted to continue the process for hundreds of years longer we could. They hide the technologies that are easier, cheaper, and safer than oil for their own purpose. Oil as a means of power is a way to keep the masses under control. Once we free ourselves of it and turn to new resources there is nothing to fear. There are some promising things happening right now.

[BestLion]

All kinds of denials and fantasy solutions have been issued from various quarters, but none of them will stave off the Wolf. In the United States, the U.S. Energy Information Administration predicts that American oil consumption, 19.5 million barrels/day in 2000, will rise to 23 million/day by 2015, 66% imported.

increasingly agitated sun creating oil VERY quickly. Old, dried up wells are producing again,
please produce 1 example of this? Most revived oil fields have opened again due to water injection..More less they close old fields in days of old cause they didnt have water injection in order to bring oil to the top. Old fields are not producing new oil.Abiotic Oil, Claims that oil is infinite are either a psychological blockage that makes it difficult to accept a round (ie. finite) planet or disinformation to distract people from demanding that the rest of the oil should be used in a humane and sane manner (solar panels, not tanks).The fact remains that the abiotic theory of petroleum genesis has zero credibility for economically interesting accumulations. 99.9999% of the world's liquid hydrocarbons are produced by maturation of organic matter derived from organisms.

Peak oil is a myth
Believe what you want. Unless a new energy source is found and put online for the mass quickly. Forget about Nibiru, Nostradamus, or the Maya(n) calendar ending on Dec 21 2012. None of those things is really worth worrying about. Peak oil on the other hand should have you tossing and turning in your sheets with nightmarish visions of what might befall you, your children, your grandchildren, even the human race as a whole.
A constantly dwindling supply of oil will have far more impact than just rising prices at the gas station though, Since oil became a viable fuel source in the early 20th century more and more of it was used to create our current way of life. The massive population explosion around the entire planet in the last century was literally fueled by oil. Oil is used in everything from rubber, to plastic, to pesticides. We use oil powered vehicles to harvest and transport crops to grocery stores. Oil is used to create sterile medical supplies like gloves and tool coverings. In short, the energy that supports six, almost seven billion people on this planet almost all comes from oil.In short, if our society cannot break its addiction to oil we as a species are going to be facing some very very hard times. Mass famine, black outs, riots, wars, disease, it will be as if Pandora’s box was opened.
I no longer read on peak oil. Its too darn depressing, and nothing i can really do about it. I deleted all my forum accounts on peak oil boards, and no long read the sites..just doesn't add to my life. I prefer to stick my head in the sand, and just live life now. if abotic oil gives people peace of mind then believe it (I for one dont buy into that theory) anyway live life now..I find it best to stick my head in the sand on this topic. I don't like talking about it..too depressing, but it is very real.

[joedjemal]

I spent tens of thousands of hours reading up on this, I'm afraid it's very real. Peak discovery was in the 70's. It's the reason the financial system started failing in 2008 because as we entered the plateau it put an end to growth. The best place to read about it is http://www.theoildrum.com/

The oil sands and shales won't help because of EROEI (energy returned on energy invested) and production rates. The first wells produced 100 to 1 energy returns, oil sands about 3 to 1 and the amount of water used and pollution produced in the process is incredible. Production rates are feeble regardless of the size of the reserve. The shales may take more energy to extract than they produce. Once it takes one barrel of oil to produce one barrel of oil you might as well not bother. You should have seen the faces of the politicos in Brussels when I brought the subject up at a sustainability forum. This is the main secret they're keeping from the general public. Go and do some serious reading on it. All the information is there. All you have to do is read.

Most won't though. The denial you face when trying to discuss this is palpable. This is the reason everything will be changing this year, not because of aliens, ascension, nwo, nibiru, returning gods or whatever, the simple fact that the systems that maintain us are unsustainable is enough. You try explaining such a simple thing as the exponential function to someone and they come back with alien saviours.

Grow food or die. It's as simple as that.

[modwiz]

I have already stated my thoughts about this subject but, pursuant to a further discussion, oil is just nasty and dirty. I do not believe in anthropogenic climate change but I firmly believe in breathable air and drinkable water. Pollution is a disgrace and an abomination to us and our Mother. So, I ce age or desert planet, dirty, polluting petroleum usage has come to and end. The other ways of producing energy are suppressed and we know this. Oil and its products are all about money now. Very dirty money.

I agree with growing food. For a lot of really good reasons.

[BestLion]

This is the reason everything will be changing this year, not because of aliens, ascension, nwo, nibiru, returning gods or whatever, the simple fact that the systems that maintain us are unsustainable is enough.
The Mayan's calendar happens to end because of an astronomical event that has not ever happened.The solar system is like clockwork and our movement and relation to the background Milky Way is also clockwork except, if I am understanding it correctly, that the winter solstice of 2012 will be never before witnessed. Likewise, oil is running out yet our world economy is entirely petroleum based. That means almost everything made and operation and functioning is doing so because of oil. Do not believe there is an alternative to the energy supplied by oil. As of this moment, there are no alternatives online to take the place of oil. Nothing! We have many possible energy alternatives but none are online and tested. Given this understanding and that the world financial system is petroleum based as well, we have a serious situation. I advise anyone reading this to: do your homework! Find out more about this issue. Do not believe we have 50 to 70 years of oil reserves remaining. We have reach Peak Oil! At the increasing rate of consumption, 2012 is the demarcation of a very steep decline.I find it very coincidental that the Mayan calendar ends at 2012 the same year it is excepted by experts that we face a steep decline in oil supply.

Grow food or die. It's as simple as that.
Well I can tell you s a food grower myself. it takes about 2 acres of land to feed 1 person per year. Then you need to store the food, heat food for jaring, till the land 3 times a year "need a tractor for this a rototiller will take 1 week1 to till 1 acre 'and that also takes fuel'. I have 2 acres of land, i pay local farmers 2 plow it 3 times a year..of the 3 times one time is tilling the land. Then lots of work involved from planting-harvesting to hoing the land. its back breaking work, and i now only plant for myself about a 1/4th of an acre mainly tomatoes-potatoes and beets. I also have fruit trees and grapes I conserve. most westerners have lawns not gardens..I will say here in the former USSR it has a better infrastructure for local food production then the USA has.
We face interesting times.

[Mad Hatter]

Hmmm... hate to spoil a good doom fest but really folks...

Its as easy as

1) http://www.watertorch.com/

2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algae_fuel

3) http://www.cheniere.org/misc/wankel.htm

really...

[Second Son]

BECAUS OIL IS A REGIONAL COMMODITY, AND CAN BE CONTROLLED... UNLIKE SO-CALLED "FREE" ENERGY, AND BECAUSE IT IS A GEO-POLITICAL TOOL TO JUSTIFY CONQUEST, IT WILL BE AROUND FOR A LONG TIME, EVEN THOUGH IT HAS BEEN OBSOLETE FOR MANY DECADES.

The term "Peak Oil" is designed to get the masses rallied, AND NOT JUST about the environment either. Never has there been a mechanism in place which creates such fabulous wealth and incredible control, and then channels them into the hands of the few.

Do you really think that while the cabinet members were lying to the American people to justify war in Iraq, those lies were ALSO told to the pentagons top brass? NO... we were told about B.S. about yellow cake uranium and WMD's. The CIA and ALL the other intelligence agencies in the world new this was a fabrication, as did the Pentagon. So what were they being told? The same B.S. being tossed around in this thread, maybe. The world will shut down, millions will die, riots in the streets, blah, blah, blah.

You can bet the term "Peak Oil" is a very powerful tool for the PTW, and will be dragged out of the same dustbin where they used to keep other scary words like "Red Menace" and "Nuclear Holocaust". They will drag it out when it is needed to further the globalist agenda.

It's easy really, when it comes to the government, to find out if they are lying, look to see if their mouths are moving. Works every time ;)

[chancy]

Likewise, oil is running out yet our world economy is entirely petroleum based. That means almost everything made and operation and functioning is doing so because of oil. Do not believe there is an alternative to the energy supplied by oil. As of this moment, there are no alternatives online to take the place of oil. Nothing! We have many possible energy alternatives but none are online and tested. Given this understanding and that the world financial system is petroleum based as well, we have a serious situation. I advise anyone reading this to: do your homework! Find out more about this issue. Do not believe we have 50 to 70 years of oil reserves remaining. We have reach Peak Oil! At the increasing rate of consumption, 2012 is the demarcation of a very steep decline.I find it very coincidental that the Mayan calendar ends at 2012 the same year it is excepted by experts that we face a steep decline in oil supply.

Grow food or die. It's as simple as that.
Well I can tell you s a food grower myself. it takes about 2 acres of land to feed 1 person per year. Then you need to store the food, heat food for jaring, till the land 3 times a year "need a tractor for this a rototiller will take 1 week1 to till 1 acre 'and that also takes fuel'. I have 2 acres of land, i pay local farmers 2 plow it 3 times a year..of the 3 times one time is tilling the land. Then lots of work involved from planting-harvesting to hoing the land. its back breaking work, and i now only plant for myself about a 1/4th of an acre mainly tomatoes-potatoes and beets. I also have fruit trees and grapes I conserve. most westerners have lawns not gardens..I will say here in the former USSR it has a better infrastructure for local food production then the USA has.
We face interesting times.


Hello Everyone and Bestlion:
You seem to want to scare everyone with peak oil which is a total man made farce. I have stated a little in regards to No Peak Oil Crisis but what intrigued me was your going off the topic to grow food or die!
You grow say 2 acres of food. Most of my farming friends grow 2,000 to 10,000 acres of food. I know you believe what you say but as you are telling everyone that peak oil is real thnn also listen when we tell you it's total garbage. Not even the garbage that can make a car run. (bio fuel)
For the past decades we have been punching 25,000 to 35,000 new wells each and every year.
Here is some trivia for you...I know you don't know this due to your posts. Please take it from wikianswers.com
Here is the link:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_crude_oil_does_Canada_supply_to_the_US_each_year

You see North America is self sufficient in oil. As posted before in this thread there is enough oil for 100's of years plus at present rate. That's known reserves in north america.
To think that the usa has to be in the middle east is ludicrous.
We all can smile and believe what we want but when you quit using your tractor and car I will still be driving mine. Unfortunately it will cost alot more when that happens......
By the way as far as food is concerned I agree totally since you can't eat oil.
One of my farmer friends is trying to marry a gal from the Ukraine and when he tells these girls that he's a farmer and he never hears from them again. His farm is small at 2,000 acres. My point is that everything is what you believe. The gals in the Ukraine believe a farmer uses a hoe. The also believe a farmer has to work 18 hours a day. The unfortunate thing is this is NOT TRUE. My friend has the easiest life of anyone I know. Works 4 - 5 months a year and the rest of the year he does what he wants. ( holidays)
It's all relative to what you've been taught.
You don't agree with me saying peak oil is a bunch of balonie and I don't agree with you saying we are on the sinking ship.
You must live where there isn't much oil ( import oil to Ukraine )
I live where there is an abundance of the black crude oil (Export oil to usa etc.). So much I get tired of hearing how much oil is worth.
Everything is according to what you have been taught. I came to project avalon to learn more than I know. Unfortunately I can't sit back and let people fear monger with the peak oil balonie.
I'll do some gardening and you do some gardening and we will all enjoy a wonderful crop.
The only reason I am posting is to let you know that there is more knowledge out there on this subject. I know you will never be converted to NO PEAK OIL but now you know both sides of the fence. I also know that Ukrainian gals don't like farms but as I pointed out that's another story for another time
Have a great day and enjoy the gardening
Someday I hope to break bread and eat a bowl of borscht
together with you and discuss gardening.
chancy
PS You can also make oil from coal but that's another story

[TargeT]

Oil wells have been shown to refill themselfs.
Really? What are you talking about show me 1 case..please! I can show you 1,000s of closed oil field in many US states that are completely exhumed, and the towns are now ghost-towns!.

http://www.rense.com/general63/refil.htm

why do they cap the oil wells, ever wonrdered at that? why do old oil wells ooze oil (the ones in texas that are REALLY old) we have oil wells here in alaska that have to be re capped because the pressure is buildiing as the wells replenish.

OIL is amazing, we need it for our current living style, but we do NOT need it for energy; the current oil price issues are because production was cut, on purpose, for a reason.

[joedjemal]

I really don't understand how people imagine we can just keep on growing without limits. It isn't possible. It's really simple to understand. Have a look at this.

VOMWzjrRiBg

[Cjay]

As of this moment, there are no alternatives online to take the place of oil. Nothing! We have many possible energy alternatives but none are online and tested.

Nonsense! Biofuels were "online and proven" before petroleum took over due to massive corruption and more than a century of brainwashing with lies. Absolutely everything useful that comes from petroleum can also be made from plants. Biofuels are sustainable and much cleaner burning than any petroleum products. Petroleum is extremely dirty and toxic. Dozens, if not hundreds of alternatives have been supressed by many underhanded or illegal means, including murder.

Examples of alternative RENEWABLE energy sources (excluding combustible fuels) that have been online for decades include:

Hydroelectricity
Geothermal
Wind
Solar
Tidal
Waves



About 16% of global final energy consumption comes from renewables, with 10% coming from traditional biomass, which is mainly used for heating, and 3.4% from hydroelectricity. New renewables (small hydro, modern biomass, wind, solar, geothermal, and biofuels) accounted for another 3% and are growing very rapidly. The share of renewables in electricity generation is around 19%, with 16% of global electricity coming from hydroelectricity and 3% from new renewables.

Wind power is growing at the rate of 30% annually, with a worldwide installed capacity of 238,000 megawatts (MW) at the end of 2011, and is widely used in Europe, Asia, and the United States. At the end of 2011 the photovoltaic (PV) capacity worldwide was 67,000 MW, and PV power stations are popular in Germany and Italy. Solar thermal power stations operate in the USA and Spain, and the largest of these is the 354 megawatt (MW) SEGS power plant in the Mojave Desert. The world's largest geothermal power installation is the Geysers in California, with a rated capacity of 750 MW. Brazil has one of the largest renewable energy programs in the world, involving production of ethanol fuel from sugarcane, and ethanol now provides 18% of the country's automotive fuel. Ethanol fuel is also widely available in the USA.
Read much more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy


v3CBOdgBlk8



Well I can tell you s a food grower myself. it takes about 2 acres of land to feed 1 person per year.

I believe that is your experience, BestLion, but I don't believe that you are maximising the potential of your land. I think the amount of land required to feed one person depends on the types of food you grow and a wide range of other factors. I suggest that you study permaculture.

I grow food rather inefficiently on about 1/20th of an acre and I am forever giving away or composting the excess food that my family can't eat. I said inefficiently because I am a lazy gardener - I don't water or fertilize or tend the garden nearly as much as I could or should. I plant the seeds and let it "thrive" on neglect. I have much more space than 1/20th of an acre but most of my garden is ornamental, not food crops. With a little more effort, I could grow a lot more food without removing one ornamental plant. We don't do any preserving because we always have an excess of fresh food. Granted, we do buy some foods that we don't produce at home.

The following video is an example of growing 1 million pounds of food on 3 acres.

jV9CCxdkOng

[Cjay]

I really don't understand how people imagine we can just keep on growing without limits. It isn't possible. It's really simple to understand.

Agreed. Endless growth is NOT sustainable. The current economic and social models based on growth (and greed) are broken. Let's develop new models.

[Debra]

For what it is worth, I worked for the oil industry once .. and in the position of someone who represented the industry in writing about all the initiatives it was undergoing - and this was in the old days when they were peddling research that said that lead in petrol was safe. My job was to support that research, and later the researcher was exposed for fudging the data. consequently, the industry had to amp up and spend money it was hoping to avoid paying into new infrastructure to produce unleaded petrol.

So, b***t rules in the fossil fuel industry, do not delude yourself.

I no longer write on behalf of the industry - because I don´t trust it. Peak oil theory is a miserable scenario, however, even if it were true, surely cleaner energy technology is better to bring on stream, even if there is going to be a lag time in getting it rolled out globally.

I think the big companies can do this already - I don´t have any evidence of this. But, they turned over pretty bloody quickly when they had to remove lead from petrol.

[joedjemal]

As of this moment, there are no alternatives online to take the place of oil. Nothing! We have many possible energy alternatives but none are online and tested.

Nonsense! Biofuels were "online and proven" before petroleum took over due to massive corruption and more than a century of brainwashing with lies. Absolutely everything useful that comes from petroleum can also be made from plants. Biofuels are sustainable and much cleaner burning than any petroleum products. Petroleum is extremely dirty and toxic. Dozens, if not hundreds of alternatives have been supressed by many underhanded or illegal means, including murder.

Examples of alternative RENEWABLE energy sources (excluding combustible fuels) that have been online for decades include:

Hydroelectricity
Geothermal
Wind
Solar
Tidal
Waves



About 16% of global final energy consumption comes from renewables, with 10% coming from traditional biomass, which is mainly used for heating, and 3.4% from hydroelectricity. New renewables (small hydro, modern biomass, wind, solar, geothermal, and biofuels) accounted for another 3% and are growing very rapidly. The share of renewables in electricity generation is around 19%, with 16% of global electricity coming from hydroelectricity and 3% from new renewables.

Wind power is growing at the rate of 30% annually, with a worldwide installed capacity of 238,000 megawatts (MW) at the end of 2011, and is widely used in Europe, Asia, and the United States. At the end of 2011 the photovoltaic (PV) capacity worldwide was 67,000 MW, and PV power stations are popular in Germany and Italy. Solar thermal power stations operate in the USA and Spain, and the largest of these is the 354 megawatt (MW) SEGS power plant in the Mojave Desert. The world's largest geothermal power installation is the Geysers in California, with a rated capacity of 750 MW. Brazil has one of the largest renewable energy programs in the world, involving production of ethanol fuel from sugarcane, and ethanol now provides 18% of the country's automotive fuel. Ethanol fuel is also widely available in the USA.
Read much more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy


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Well I can tell you s a food grower myself. it takes about 2 acres of land to feed 1 person per year.

I believe that is your experience, BestLion, but I don't believe that you are maximising the potential of your land. I think the amount of land required to feed one person depends on the types of food you grow and a wide range of other factors. I suggest that you study permaculture.

I grow food rather inefficiently on about 1/20th of an acre and I am forever giving away or composting the excess food that my family can't eat. I said inefficiently because I am a lazy gardener - I don't water or fertilize or tend the garden nearly as much as I could or should. I plant the seeds and let it "thrive" on neglect. I have much more space than 1/20th of an acre but most of my garden is ornamental, not food crops. With a little more effort, I could grow a lot more food without removing one ornamental plant. We don't do any preserving because we always have an excess of fresh food. Granted, we do buy some foods that we don't produce at home.

The following video is an example of growing 1 million pounds of food on 3 acres.

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Have you seen the amount of organic matter those guys ship in to grow all that food let alone how much power they use? They have heated greenhouses to do their aquaculture. I grow food on a permaculture farm and we produce quite a bit with little use of fossil fuels but it took us 20 years to get it where it is. You don't just magic it into existence. What are 7 billion people going to do between the failure of the old and the creation of the new? That's why I keep hammering about people getting on with it instead of expecting "them" whoever "they" are to do it because "they" aren't doing it and industrial civilisation is collapsing right now.

[TargeT]

I really don't understand how people imagine we can just keep on growing without limits. It isn't possible. It's really simple to understand.

Agreed. Endless growth is NOT sustainable. The current economic and social models based on growth (and greed) are broken. Let's develop new models.

Who says we are in a period of endless growth?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_dZJ6SFB1ecE/S7uXleXJAbI/AAAAAAAADBM/OFiCsIwapuI/s400/Oil+Consumption

http://casafoodshed.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Gasoline-usage.jpg

Where does OIL come from? answer that and you'll know where you stand on this topic..

There's enough oil to supply the globe at .25c a gallon for fuel ( what Kuwait's citizens pay currently)


Pump price for gasoline (US dollar per liter) in Kuwait
The Pump price for gasoline (US dollar per liter) in Kuwait was last reported at 0.23 in 2010, according to a World Bank report released in 2011. The Pump price for gasoline (US dollar per liter) in Kuwait was reported at 0.24 in 2008, according to the World Bank. Fuel prices refer to the pump prices of the most widely sold grade of gasoline. Prices have been converted from the local currency to U.S. dollars.This page includes a historical data chart, news and forecats for Pump price for gasoline (US dollar per liter) in Kuwait. Kuwait has a small, wealthy and relatively open economy. The country has about 10% of world crude oil reserves. Petroleum accounts for nearly half of GDP, 95% of export revenues, and 95% of the government income.


http://www.tradingeconomics.com/kuwait/pump-price-for-gasoline-us-dollar-per-liter-wb-data.html

if you FEEL right, your wrong,, you need to KNOW your right.. if you FEEL anything your working from emotion and that has nothing to do with a rational discussion.

[Cjay]

Have you seen the amount of organic matter those guys ship in to grow all that food let alone how much power they use? They have heated greenhouses to do their aquaculture. I grow food on a permaculture farm and we produce quite a bit with little use of fossil fuels but it took us 20 years to get it where it is. You don't just magic it into existence. What are 7 billion people going to do between the failure of the old and the creation of the new? That's why I keep hammering about people getting on with it instead of expecting "them" whoever "they" are to do it because "they" aren't doing it and industrial civilisation is collapsing right now.

The world is not ending. That bullsh*t would probably make excellent fertilizer.

The video title says 1 MILLION pounds of Food on 3 acres. 10,000 fish 500 yards compost (I am guessing cubic yards). There is much more information in the description of the video. All of their heat comes from the compost and the sun. Bacteria take nitrogen from the atmosphere. Other soil micro-organisms do other "magical" things. Photosynthesis takes carbon from the atmosphere. Yes, the other elements have to come from somewhere - from the soil or from imported fertilizers and compost. Ah, but plants and soil micro-organisms are alchemists - they can literally convert one element into another. It's not magic, it is nature. Nature is the old way and it has worked for billions of years. Petroleum is the new way and it destroys nature.

The problem is not that we might run out of petroleum. The problem is that our thinking has been manipulated by clever marketing - I mean brainwashing by lies. I wish we would run out of petroleum so we had no option but to go back to nature. The air, water and soil would be better off. Society would be better off. The plants and animals would be better off. The entire planet would be better off.

One of my best friends manages more than 350,000 hectares (865,000 acres) of farms. Organic farms. Without exception, the organic farms produce more food of much higher quality than neighboring chemical farms. Chemical fertilizers kill most of the bacteria in the soil. In chemical farming, the soil gets worse year after year, crop yields decline while pests and diseases increase dramatically. With organic farming, the soil gets better year after year, crop yields increase while pests and diseases decline.

The transition from organic farming to chemical farming is made in one day - the first day chemicals are used. The transition back to organic farming can be made in one day - the first day chemicals are not used. The key to boosting soil fertility and increasing food production is soil micro-organisms - they do most of the work.