The "Psychopaths"; Othering; Power Dynamics

[Deviant]

Hello, this is my first topic post. I have browsed the forums for a while previously before becoming a member.

One of the issues discussed here to draw my attention has been the concept of the "1%" -- the elite, ruling classes, and how they have been categorized as "psychopaths" by various members here and elsewhere. Make no mistake, I recognize the fact that the motives of many of these people are questionable and generally hurt society as a whole. However, I completely object to them being labelled as psychopaths.

I think that as a whole, the application of labels to people and groups can be counter-productive. We need to understand that humans are generally the same, and the only major thing that separates us is our lived circumstances. Culture, values, morals, are all socially constructed. These "1%" live and think as they do because of the circumstances they were born into.

By labeling these people as psychopaths, we are "othering" them. Othering is a process in which one group is seen as "us" and another group as "them", when really...isn't a major point to transcendency-level thinking the concept of all of us being one?

The main thing holding the global elites back from decency is their desire to hold onto power. Power, as a whole, is the most destructive force that human-kind knows of. Power is the dividing factor in societies, and is the primary reason for social conflict worldwide. Once humans have power, they are reluctant to relinquish it. I cannot understand why humans are placed into positions of power in the first place, because it is human nature to abuse that power. We assign certain people power over others every day, and nobody thinks twice about it. I do not have an answer for how to solve this problem, but I hope that everyone realizes that the "1%" are not psychopaths -- they are merely you or I, if we were given far too much power.

[araucaria]

Hello Deviant
I didn’t realize that new members could start threads straightaway. I am wondering why you are bringing up this notion of “labelling” psychopaths. I think diagnosis would be a better word. Your own post recognizes that there is a very small minority of people who abuse power, and therefore that there is a real problem.

One definition of abuse of power would be the rejection of oneness, imposing a separation of haves and have nots. Another definition would be simulating human empathy that one doesn’t feel. So to dispute this diagnosis on the basis of what you call “othering” strikes me as being a rather perverse argument – verging on the psychopathic as just defined.

A psychopath may be “you”, Deviant, “given too much power”, but it is definitely not “I”. I have always striven to avoid as far as possible exercising power of any kind, even in situations of authority, such as parenthood. That is my recommendation to you also if you truly wish to help solve this problem. This way you can receive as many people who are willing into the oneness, but you cannot force any adept of separation to join you: that is precisely what we mean by wielding power :)

[modwiz]

Good luck with this 'deviant' thought. We are getting all kinds lately. Dreams of knotted ropes have begun to fill the dreams/nightmares of the psychopathic 1% (Of course, this number figure is 'figurative') and they are sending all kinds of emissaries to plead their humanity because they believe that we would all behave just like them if we were in their position. Those of us who are not psychopaths know this for the big fat lie it is. There are non-psychopaths who are easily put into a serpents trance by such hissing statements and they do present a form of inertia that makes cleaning house a little more difficult.

My view offers a time line that is running short for them. They see it as well and their behavior and legistations are an obvious indication that they see the noose tightening. The criminal elite are some form of parasitic viral life form that finds infection of the human species as a mode of expression for their plans. Like a body snatchers type movie it only works for as long as the masquerade is maintained. Many of us have the 'glasses' now and see them for the predators that they are. They have a date with karma in their future, as well as the destiny any mosquito, leech, tick or flea is entitled to.

BTW. Interesting entrance here at PA.

[jorr lundstrom]

Deviant, You may of course call them wotsoever you like and have any

thoughts about them you prefer. These psychopaths have placed themselves

outside "we" and just use the 99% of humanity as legitime preys. They seem

to realize that its declared "Open season on predators" and are now trying to

save their skins. I say, good luck with that, its just not gonna work. :smash:

[TraineeHuman]

I'd like to make a comment as someone with professional qualifications and experience in the field of psychology and psychotherapy. In my experience, professional psychologists and counsellors and social workers, etc have access to possibly using all sorts of labels. However, in practice most of us are very, very reluctant to use such labels at all. Why? Because it is stereotyping of a very rigid and uncaring kind.

Also, what others don't realise is that most of the professionals are people who naturally have a gigantic amount of (detached) caring and NO judgmentalism. The trouble is, anybody who isn't a professional tends to fall straight into the trap of putting on some verbal lynching.

Certainly, I agree that the ruling elite have done monstrous and evil things, and they need to be stopped. But as Deviant says, they are very much like you and me but put into a situation of having unchecked power.

I know this partly from observation of some of my relatives. Up until the start of the second world war, most of my mother’s relatives had been involved in the Illuminati at an international or national level. My mother’s connections to all that stopped when she emigrated penniless to Australia. However, I have no doubt my only brother is a reincarnation of her uncle, who had been the richest man in the country she left.

[araucaria]

they are very much like you and me but put into a situation of having unchecked power.

Then they need to take responsibility for what they are doing. If they don't like the situation they have been "put into", they need to get out. This is not about judging people or verbal lynching, it is about recognizing that the perpetrators are not the victims and that the victims are not the perpetrators.

[pickle]

Thanks for the thread Deviant, and an interesting one (if not a wee bit contentious to some!).

I do wonder what's worse though, calling, or labelling the 1% as psychopaths, or labelling almost everyone (the 90%?) outside their 'community' as 'Sheeple'. Who'd of thought that those who believe there's more to life than hurt and oppression could be part of such self righteous snobbery and demeaning descriptions of our children, parents, brother 'n sisters, partners, workmates, and all those that greet you with a genuine smile and good heart....


Peace,

Pickle



Always wanted to get that off my chest, thanks for the opportunity! ;)

[Deviant]

Hello Deviant
Your own post recognizes that there is a very small minority of people who abuse power, and therefore that there is a real problem.


My post states that the real problem is the distribution of power. Of course I am aware that more compassionate and aware humans would be better-suited to wield power than those currently "at the top".

Power dynamics can be demonstrated in every facet of life - in every single relationship that we have. Thinking small-scale, look at the way that you interact with your boss as opposed to a co-worker. It affects us in everything we do.


The criminal elite are some form of parasitic viral life form that finds infection of the human species as a mode of expression for their plans.


I agree with your post that the plans of the global elite are frightening. One reason that the global elite have been able to approach their agenda is because of the capitalist system that has allowed them to build their wealth and power over many generations. All I am saying is that many of these elite are in positions that we have not lived, so we have no room to declare them psychopaths.

Also, I should note that I am hesitant towards your mindset when you use words such as "criminal" so freely. Please be aware that such labels have been successfully applied for centuries as a way of oppressing the people and maintaining the status quo. The use of such words is also a key instrument in "othering" and comes along with the same negative consequences.


I'd like to make a comment as someone with professional qualifications and experience in the field of psychology and psychotherapy.

The trouble is, anybody who isn't a professional tends to fall straight into the trap of putting on some verbal lynching.

The ruling elite . . . are very much like you and me but put into a situation of having unchecked power.


Summarizes my thoughts very well.

[araucaria]

Deviant
I am going, if I may, to respond to your entire post, not just your response to my own.


Power dynamics can be demonstrated in every facet of life - in every single relationship that we have. Thinking small-scale, look at the way that you interact with your boss as opposed to a co-worker. It affects us in everything we do. I’m sorry, I have no boss. Maybe I am lucky; maybe it was a life choice :)


All I am saying is that many of these elite are in positions that we have not lived, so we have no room to declare them psychopaths. We do: doctors do practically nothing else than diagnose things they have never suffered from (except in certain cases of psychosis, where they mistakenly give the benefit of the doubt). I hope you heart surgeon doesn’t have a heart attack before operating!


I am hesitant towards your mindset when you use words such as "criminal" so freely. Please be aware that such labels have been successfully applied for centuries as a way of oppressing the people and maintaining the status quo. Yes, and they have been successfully applied for centuries by prosecution lawyers as a way of convicting criminals; indeed they have no other way of achieving same!



[quote] Summarizes my thoughts very well. That makes sense since Traineehuman in the (snip) expresses agreement with you!

Since this is an appeal to the authority of the caring professions (for which I have the greatest esteem), it just happens that psychopathy is just not responding to the caring treatment, and so this authority doesn’t really count for much.

[modwiz]

Hello Deviant
Your own post recognizes that there is a very small minority of people who abuse power, and therefore that there is a real problem.


My post states that the real problem is the distribution of power. Of course I am aware that more compassionate and aware humans would be better-suited to wield power than those currently "at the top".

Power dynamics can be demonstrated in every facet of life - in every single relationship that we have. Thinking small-scale, look at the way that you interact with your boss as opposed to a co-worker. It affects us in everything we do.


The criminal elite are some form of parasitic viral life form that finds infection of the human species as a mode of expression for their plans.


I agree with your post that the plans of the global elite are frightening. One reason that the global elite have been able to approach their agenda is because of the capitalist system that has allowed them to build their wealth and power over many generations. All I am saying is that many of these elite are in positions that we have not lived, so we have no room to declare them psychopaths.

Also, I should note that I am hesitant towards your mindset when you use words such as "criminal" so freely. Please be aware that such labels have been successfully applied for centuries as a way of oppressing the people and maintaining the status quo. The use of such words is also a key instrument in "othering" and comes along with the same negative consequences.


I'd like to make a comment as someone with professional qualifications and experience in the field of psychology and psychotherapy.

The trouble is, anybody who isn't a professional tends to fall straight into the trap of putting on some verbal lynching.

The ruling elite . . . are very much like you and me but put into a situation of having unchecked power.


Summarizes my thoughts very well.

I am othering. You maintain they are us and I do not accept that premise as I do not accept that we would all behave the same as them. You blame the money for their corruption while ignoring the means they utilize to obtain such money and power. You either do not understand the way things really are are you are shilling for the psychopaths. I will assume the former. Those in power are criminals and politicians work like a crime family and in one way or another all work for a planetary organized crime network. This is not conspiracy theory. Those with the wit to discern can plainly see what is before them. You are trying to tell me vampire bats are just fruit bats who would be vampire bats if they just had the teeth. You speak only to fools and the deluded. Many in the psychoanalytical field suffer from being adherents of the 'science' of that trickster, Freud and the apologetics of a system designed to enable and cover for the criminal elite. The fruit of such mendacious meddling is on full display in our confused society. The mass hypnotic state of this planet is deep and dysfunctional.

Now, I will other myself and go to some other thread.

[gripreaper]

I would agree with you modwiz. The psychopaths at the top know how to disintegrate their children in the formative first year, when the core visceral instincts are the only form of experience, and the emotional and cognitive abilities are not yet developed. This sets the tone for all future somatic response, and forever forces the entity to respond within the framework of the "fight or flight" adrenaline survival. At that point, only two things matter, either the avoidance of pain and the aquisition of pleasure, without any recognition of others, or boundaries. Many empathics do this inadvertently to one degree or another as well, yet I go back to a time when I was in a Primal Therapy group session with Vivian Janov, and the question was posited to her: Can all neurotics and psychotics be cured? And she responded, that after 35 years of clinical work and thousands upon thousands of patients, one of which was John Lennon himself, she said: IF someone, somewhere in the first few years of life showed love to them, then there is hope. Some cannot be helped, and she was referring to those whose early visceral brainstem was irrevocably damaged.

[AlternativeInfoJunkie]

Well i think you're right that we shouldn't see this as an "us and them" struggle but i think it is fair to say that the problematic ones in the global elite power structure are psychopaths. It is fair because being a psychopath and generational satanism go hand in hand. It is not to say that we are better than them, just that their environment has made them psychopaths literally. The same thing could easily happen to any of us were we born into such a family. All of this is IMHO.

[jorr lundstrom]

I said this before: It doesnt start with power. Power doesnt corrupt, but corrupted

people seek positions that gives them the opportunity to get their sinister plans in play.

And psychopaths are born psychypaths, with a totally different arrangement of their

brains. The situation doesnt produce a psychopath. But there are people with

behaviors that resembles psychopathy, that are products of circumstances. These

are cureable or at least possible to stop with modest methods.

Between 2005 and 2007 I worked as a nurse on a warden with 12 psychpaths who

where convicted for severe crimes. They were all taken on different crime scenes

with overwhekming evidences against them. But they all claimed to be totally innocent.

Thats stupid psychopaths, even ordinary criminals are not that stupid. But the

psychopaths we discuss here are extremely clever when it comes to fool their fellow

men. They are in total lack of empathy and handle their fellow men as dolls made

of straw, ie without any respect wotsoever for the others life and belongings.

I know its popular to imagine that we are all one and ultimately work for the

best of all humanity. Those who had psychopaths ruin their lifes dont share

that childish view.


http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt81/sakasvattaja/wolf-sheep.jpg

[Flash]

Hello, this is my first topic post. I have browsed the forums for a while previously before becoming a member.

One of the issues discussed here to draw my attention has been the concept of the "1%" -- the elite, ruling classes, and how they have been categorized as "psychopaths" by various members here and elsewhere. Make no mistake, I recognize the fact that the motives of many of these people are questionable and generally hurt society as a whole. However, I completely object to them being labelled as psychopaths.

I think that as a whole, the application of labels to people and groups can be counter-productive. We need to understand that humans are generally the same, and the only major thing that separates us is our lived circumstances. Culture, values, morals, are all socially constructed. These "1%" live and think as they do because of the circumstances they were born into.

By labeling these people as psychopaths, we are "othering" them. Othering is a process in which one group is seen as "us" and another group as "them", when really...isn't a major point to transcendency-level thinking the concept of all of us being one?

The main thing holding the global elites back from decency is their desire to hold onto power. Power, as a whole, is the most destructive force that human-kind knows of. Power is the dividing factor in societies, and is the primary reason for social conflict worldwide. Once humans have power, they are reluctant to relinquish it. I cannot understand why humans are placed into positions of power in the first place, because it is human nature to abuse that power. We assign certain people power over others every day, and nobody thinks twice about it. I do not have an answer for how to solve this problem, but I hope that everyone realizes that the "1%" are not psychopaths -- they are merely you or I, if we were given far too much power.

I won't even ague with this. I know for a fact that there is about 4% of the population with no guilt whatsoever nor moral compass. From this, 1% cannot be stop. Those have no fear usually. They will do whatever they want to gain power. Period.

THEY DO EXIST and it is not dependent on the circumtances of their birth.

We need LS back here, this forum is becoming to "mushy softy" even for the bullies and destroyers of this world.

[Satkirn]

Like many who have already postes before I believe that not everyone would act like this 1% given the chance.
The thing with these people is that they are choosing to experience power specifically the abuse of power and how much they can manipulate.
That is their choice, and on a certian level we are agreeing with their reality, we are agreeing to let it happen in out dimension.
It is throught this "agreement" of thousands of people who do not realize they have a choice that it is happening.
Capitalism did not make it happen, capitalism is a product of the intent. I choose to other myself from this 1% because I dont agree with what they are choosing to experience. These people can go on experiencing their power games after all its the way of creation and free will, which also gives me the free will to say that I dont want that in my reality. The more people realize we have a choice the less power we give them.

[aranuk]

Good luck with this 'deviant' thought. We are getting all kinds lately. Dreams of knotted ropes have begun to fill the dreams/nightmares of the psychopathic 1% (Of course, this number figure is 'figurative') and they are sending all kinds of emissaries to plead their humanity because they believe that we would all behave just like them if we were in their position. Those of us who are not psychopaths know this for the big fat lie it is. There are non-psychopaths who are easily put into a serpents trance by such hissing statements and they do present a form of inertia that makes cleaning house a little more difficult.

My view offers a time line that is running short for them. They see it as well and their behavior and legistations are an obvious indication that they see the noose tightening. The criminal elite are some form of parasitic viral life form that finds infection of the human species as a mode of expression for their plans. Like a body snatchers type movie it only works for as long as the masquerade is maintained. Many of us have the 'glasses' now and see them for the predators that they are. They have a date with karma in their future, as well as the destiny any mosquito, leech, tick or flea is entitled to.

BTW. Interesting entrance here at PA.

Modwiz I couldn't agree more!
And so eloquent too.

Stan

[aranuk]

I'd like to make a comment as someone with professional qualifications and experience in the field of psychology and psychotherapy. In my experience, professional psychologists and counsellors and social workers, etc have access to possibly using all sorts of labels. However, in practice most of us are very, very reluctant to use such labels at all. Why? Because it is stereotyping of a very rigid and uncaring kind.

Also, what others don't realise is that most of the professionals are people who naturally have a gigantic amount of (detached) caring and NO judgmentalism. The trouble is, anybody who isn't a professional tends to fall straight into the trap of putting on some verbal lynching.

Certainly, I agree that the ruling elite have done monstrous and evil things, and they need to be stopped. But as Deviant says, they are very much like you and me but put into a situation of having unchecked power.

I know this partly from observation of some of my relatives. Up until the start of the second world war, most of my mother’s relatives had been involved in the Illuminati at an international or national level. My mother’s connections to all that stopped when she emigrated penniless to Australia. However, I have no doubt my only brother is a reincarnation of her uncle, who had been the richest man in the country she left.

You may be "qualified" and a professional. You could read a few books you were given by your professor and answer questions which he posed and after say 4 years you are a "qualified professional." You say someone who is NOT a professional tends to fall into the trap on puting on some verbal lynching. What elitist thinking. A new graduate say of 22 will know more about psychology then than a 65 yr old father and grandfather I think NOT my friend. Don't suppose because you have a degree you know more about the human mind than most people. Don't give your mind a treat. There ARE friggin psychopaths running the world whether in your professional opinion they are not.

Stan

[sandy]

Welcome Deviant,

Your post is thought provoking with what you call "othering" and it does have some merit with us or them.

When it comes to psychopaths I do believe they are part of the whole or oneness and thus a darkness that "we" are now shining the light upon and taking on the responsibility to cleanse this darkness.

Therefore I do not see separation or "othering" going on but just the opposite>>>>>>>>"inclusion" :)

[aranuk]

Deviant why choose a label of human disposition when you obviously argue against such things? Why not just call yourself Psychopath instead. We all choose our avatars here. I could label you a deviant but if you labelled me an Aranuk it wouldn't mean much. I am just wondering about this.

Stan

[jjjones]

we should be more concerned about "actions" instead of "words". as far as " other" goes- get used to the word. there is an "other" side to life and an "other" side to death. by the way deviant, you can object all you want, your choice, you own it. no problem, you seem to be so ill at ease with "other words". relax, quit expecting, accepting is the most important and productive ingredient to awareness and unification. whether it is the 1% or the 99%, rich or the poor, etc., it is One's Choice of how they choose to live their lives and decisions they make, no matter what circumstances one was born into. people are born with a conscience and an innate knowing of right from wrong. call it a 6th sense or gut feeling. blame is a weakness and a cowards way out whenever one cannot face their self and truth. power is weakness turned inside out, or shall i say that power is the "other" side of weakness. the elite/others have controlled basically all of the misery of all the people in this world and to the destruction of mother earth. their actions have been deliberate and imposed due to the monopoly game with fiat money called GREED. i have no names to call them, but i prefer to be in the 99% than the 1% and not to have caused the misery and destruction that they are still imposing. another insightful amusing thread and great replies from all. Thank You. i constantly learn from avalon ! namaste, love and peace universally :)

[alienHunter]

For whatever its worth: I think people practicing in the field of psychology love labels...they just don't like to address people by such. Fact is, a good psychopath will fool a good psychotherapist every time...Many of the 1% ARE psychopaths, not all of them, of course...actually, I like the sociopath label. I know them better.

[Flash]

I'd like to make a comment as someone with professional qualifications and experience in the field of psychology and psychotherapy. In my experience, professional psychologists and counsellors and social workers, etc have access to possibly using all sorts of labels. However, in practice most of us are very, very reluctant to use such labels at all. Why? Because it is stereotyping of a very rigid and uncaring kind. I have seen and heard and read quite a lot of labeling in these fields, i have no idea where you got these ideas of yours from, but i doubt that you are in the field if you have not seen this. The labeling is not crude, but there it is. And sometimes there should be when looking for solutions.

Also, what others don't realise is that most of the professionals are people who naturally have a gigantic amount of (detached) caring and NO judgmentalism. I have seen a gigantic amnount of caring yes, but what most psychotherapy/ogists do not realise is that they do this work primarily for themselves and they very often project their own views/biaised on others, quite unknowingly. I rarely met very good psy...ists ones who do restpect the other's entirely, who know themselves enough to respect the others entirely. They are often as well in the "rescuer" archetype, caught in it, this is not always healthy. They also do subconsciously enjoy the power situtation they are in when with someone in trouble that they think they can help. Not all of them, but lots of them. Few have genuine love.The trouble is, anybody who isn't a professional tends to fall straight into the trap of putting on some verbal lynching. Those in the field as well could lynch if honest, my experience: 20% are really good, 40% average and 40% damaging in their aproach.

Certainly, I agree that the ruling elite have done monstrous and evil things, and they need to be stopped. But as Deviant says, they are very much like you and me but put into a situation of having unchecked power. Some are uncheckable, therefore they get the unchecked power

I know this partly from observation of some of my relatives. Up until the start of the second world war, most of my mother’s relatives had been involved in the Illuminati at an international or national level. My mother’s connections to all that stopped when she emigrated penniless to Australia. However, I have no doubt my only brother is a reincarnation of her uncle, who had been the richest man in the country she left.

Some of my experience with psy ... ists.

[TraineeHuman]

The ruling elite differ from other people in that they use systematic and strong abuse in rearing their children.

In a somewhat similar way, the military creates rather robotlike “yes-men/women” by using systematic and strong abuse as the psychological basis of its “training”.

Abuse, abuse, abuse.

One point I want to make clear is that it’s been proved that abuse doesn’t work as effectively as certain other things. Like reward, for instance.

This was proved in the early 70s in psychology. Reward was proved to be more than twice as effective a motivator as punishment/abuse was.

But there was more. The Soviet countries were ruled by a system of strong abuse. And eventually it just didn’t work. All over the Soviet Union, ordinary people started to not care less about the abuse. They all just started to not cooperate, to find ways to follow the abusive rules so literally everywhere in every sphere that nothing much got produced any more.

Not only that, but the common people in the Soviet Union all ended up feeling enormously entitled. Over the decades, the abuse had created.rather strong self-esteem, as a kind of natural backlash.

Similarly, the people in Communist China have been going through probably earlier stages of an analogous revival.

Also, throughout the Western world fifty years ago parents and teachers used to inflict physical abuse – physical punishment – on their children. Today it is illegal in most Western countries. (The USA has special problems because their national Matrix includes being very violent as well as dumbed-down. E.g., the crime rate in the USA is at least 12 times greater in any area than that in any West European country.) This has occurred because researchers all over the world have proved and discovered that abuse is always psychologically harmful, as well as unnecessary.

Going back to the world of applied psychology, something called behaviorism used to be dominant until about a decade ago. At that time it was superceded by person-centered psychology – which is essentially the psychology of (genuine) self-esteem (certainly not selfishness, by the way).

Behaviorism was the psychology which claimed the only way to motivate people was with a carrot or with a stick -- through reward or through abuse. But no, now it has become clear in the world of applied psychology that not only is reward much greater than abuse, but even more so is self-esteem.

I appreciate that war is one of the worst forms of abuse, on all its victims. I don’t know if I’ve said enough to make it clear why, but I consider there are many reasons why a policy of perpetual war can’t triumph in the end. And it will have various eventual consequences its proponents had never remotely expected.