This is why I don't give you a job

[Violet]

I found this very straightforward post from Andor Jakab and thought I'd share it with you:

I could hire 12 people with €760 net salary, but I don't. I'll tell you why. You could work for my service provider company in a nice office. It's not telemarketing, it's not a scam. You would do serious work that requires high skills, 8 hours a day, weekdays only. I would employ you legally, I would pay your taxes and social security. I could give such a job to a dozen people, but I will not, and here I'll explain why.

I wouldn't hire a woman.

The reason is very simple: women give birth to children. I don't have the right to ask if she wanted to. If I had the right, and she answered, she could deliberately deceive me or she could change her mind.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have any problem with women giving birth to children. That's how I was born and that's how my child was born. I wouldn't hire a woman because when she gets pregnant, she goes for 3 years maternity leave, during which I can't fire her. If she wants two children, the vacation is 6 years long.

Of course, work has to be done, so I would have to hire somebody who works instead of her while she is whiling away her long holiday years. But not only couldn't I fire her while she's away, I couldn't fire her when she comes back either. So I would have to fire the one who's been working instead of her the whole time. When a woman comes back from maternity leave, I would be legally forced to increase her salary to the present level in her position. Also, I would be required to give out her normal vacation days, that she accumulated during her maternity leave. When she finally comes back to work, she would start with 2-4 months of fully paid vacation.

I wouldn't hire people over 50 either.

Not that I have any problem with the most experienced professionals. I wouldn't hire them, because they are soon in the protected age. And then I would be trapped with them, similar to the trap with employing women. You can't fire people in the protected age, so I would have to pay the salary and its total cost even if he or she doesn't work well, or at least up to acceptable standards. I couldn't fire the protected employee, but someone would have to do the job right; so I would have to hire another person. It's all right with me if they're protected, but then I won't hire them.

I would only hire 25-50 years old men.

They're also risky to hire. Since I don't have the right to fire them, if for any reason (I don't have enough income, or I don't like how they work) I want to. There's a high risk that they will go to court, and there's a high chance they will win. But this risk I would be prepared to handle.

You would cost me €1572.

(Read further on: http://andorjakab.blog.hu/2012/01/06/this_is_why_i_don_t_give_you_a_job?token=395048aeafc1fcdc1cfefd863749cb46)

[eaglespirit]

fend off the rigged system and just do the work you are prompted to...
your needs will be provided and all else will come into being now more than ever!

ALL the bs has had its day!!!

[DreamsInDigital]

In California, if you're OVER 25 no one will hire you. And, if you're over 30 and not already established in Acting, forget about it. Even A good majority that are will loose work after they turn 30. And, if you're over qualified, even at 18 they wont hire you.

[Flash]

i tought the vacation time and pregnancy/motherhood times off were good in Canada compared with US for workers, but there, it is dream country for workers. The only problem is that their buying power in Hungary is really bad. Little revenues for high prices.

What this is describing is the old communist system reconverted into a seemingly capitalist system but still with more corruption than before it seems. Power has just changed hand, from politburo to criminals and crooks.

There is all kind of studies demonstrating that when taxation is over 60% of revenues, including salary taxes, sales taxes, etc, the system will start to have generalised corruption and black market workers that do not pay taxes. Therefore, infrastructure will start declining, living conditions too, unemployment will increase and lots of workers will have no protection whatsoever.

Canada has reach this point in most provinces (except the oil rich Alberta).

US is next, but they will remain with their meager 2 months maternity lieave and 2 weeks yearly vacation (this must be dream land for Hungarian entrepreneurs).

[Ernie Nemeth]

Stuck in the old world dogma, are we?.

[TelosianEmbrace]

If you are meant to get the job, you will get the job, no matter your age, or sex, or nationality, or level of ability. There is a Divine purpose behind all human relations that goes deeper than any superficial understanding of any and all employers.

This particular employer, though he sees his world in black and white, simply expresses, to me, a plaintive cry to connect with this deeper purpose. As soon as you think you've nailed something, it's then that the parameters shift. For example, a woman could come into this man's life, and he falls in love with her, hires her, she has children to him, and he never again complains about having to pay maternity leave.;)

[Mulder]

I found this very straightforward post from Andor Jakab and thought I'd share it with you:

I wouldn't hire a woman.[/B]

The reason is very simple: women give birth to children. I don't have the right to ask if she wanted to. If I had the right, and she answered, she could deliberately deceive me or she could change her mind.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have any problem with women giving birth to children. That's how I was born and that's how my child was born. I wouldn't hire a woman because when she gets pregnant, she goes for 3 years maternity leave, during which I can't fire her. If she wants two children, the vacation is 6 years long.

Of course, work has to be done, so I would have to hire somebody who works instead of her while she is whiling away her long holiday years. But not only couldn't I fire her while she's away, I couldn't fire her when she comes back either. So I would have to fire the one who's been working instead of her the whole time. When a woman comes back from maternity leave, I would be legally forced to increase her salary to the present level in her position. Also, I would be required to give out her normal vacation days, that she accumulated during her maternity leave. When she finally comes back to work, she would start with 2-4 months of fully paid vacation.

I wouldn't hire people over 50 either.

Not that I have any problem with the most experienced professionals. I wouldn't hire them, because they are soon in the protected age. And then I would be trapped with them, similar to the trap with employing women. You can't fire people in the protected age, so I would have to pay the salary and its total cost even if he or she doesn't work well, or at least up to acceptable standards. I couldn't fire the protected employee, but someone would have to do the job right; so I would have to hire another person. It's all right with me if they're protected, but then I won't hire them.

I would only hire 25-50 years old men.

They're also risky to hire. Since I don't have the right to fire them, if for any reason (I don't have enough income, or I don't like how they work) I want to. There's a high risk that they will go to court, and there's a high chance they will win. But this risk I would be prepared to handle.

I'm totally disgusted with this attitude. Why doesn't he GO TO HELL! It's all lies intended to get the sheeple to become beggars. The fact is, if he had a good business & needed workers he'd hire them. Clearly he's not doing well & just wants to cut costs. here's proof from his blog: "Andor Jakab
In Hungary, it's not funny anymore. Here I blog, giving you insight. No comment, but here I am andorjakab@gmail.com, I also Facebook."

[eva08]

Time to change thought and consideration to higher frequencies and come up with better solutions. Many years ago when I was hiring people for our business we hired part-time employees or individual contractors in order to limit the liabilities.

[Maia Gabrial]

It doesn't sound like your company is worth it. Judging from my own experience with a cold company like yours is that YOU wouldn't be loyal to your employees,no matter how qualified they are. There would be no job security. Eventually, ppl age. Or circumstances in their lives would change. You'd fire them anyway, right?Your company's policies are from the dark ages where women and young ppl are less than nothing. Can we assume that it'll only be white males between 25 and 50,too?
You have a right set up your rules as you see fit, but how long do you think it would be before protests/lawsuits against your unfair practices begin? If you're hoping to see your company grow, you might want to reconsider your policies... Some of the ppl you've excluded turn out to be the most qualified and loyal employees ever. You'll stunt your company's growth, for sure...

[Sidney]

6 years? you have got to be kidding me. in the us its 3 months.

[Jay]

In South Africa - you are lucky to be employed if your skin is a certain colour - even if you are a citizen. The regime in South Africa is probably the only one in the world which uses affirmative action to protect the majority against the minority. It is written into the law and is called "Employment Equity".
I guess being 50 and not the correct colour means - potential employers simply hit the "delete" button.........

[MMA_Fan]

I agree with the maternity issue. It's not fair that all companies should pay for it - particularly small business owners.
Maybe some sort of insurance or bond paid by the woman would be better to cover costs? However, if a person has given a lengthy service to their employer then they should be helped by them.

[blufire]

All I have to say is it is incredibly hard to be an employer and self employed. I recently (past year) closed down two businesses of which together I employed 10 to 15 people. Closed them because the taxes ate me alive . . . . if you did everything legally, credit became ridiculous and rules and regulations are impossible to understand and follow as an employer and owning your own business.

Quite frankly and I’ll get hammered on this one . . . . It was becoming harder and harder to find individuals that would actually work and had the skills to do their work effectively. Some of my best employees were older but couldn’t physically do the work in one of my businesses. I just shut everything down and now setting up a life and business that I can largely handle on my own and hire when I need to.

[moontime]

I get really annoyed by employers like this.They think behind the curb instead of ahead. Since he had a bad experience with a stereo type then he totally writes a whole pool of prospects off. As this continues, he pretty soon will find that he has limited himself because he can't see people for who they really are.

[butcherman]

any one worth their salt will take a hi commission only based on efforts approach in this market PMA positive mental attitude always willing to shake the money tree.

Butcherman

[Unified Serenity]

You cannot have a successful small business that needs capital to grow when you have people who will eat all your profits by getting pregnant and getting paid on maternity leave for years, so basically when you needed an employee and could afford to pay them 40,000 a year (a liveable wage for many in the U.S.) if you had to now hire another person at another 40,000 a year, now you are 40,000 in the tank and only getting the work from one. So, let's say he is making a profit and wants to grow. Do you risk hiring a woman who could get pregnant next week or a man who won't? Do you risk hiring an older person who might be great, but who also might be lazy as hell? No you dont because you did not start a business to create jobs, you started a business to make a profit and provide a product or service. If you cannot even make ends meet after hiring one or two people who don't work out and you can't fire them, you're dead in the water!

And we wonder why Greece and other socialist systems are falling apart when they have lavish vacation time, retirement ages and benefits. Social Security started out with the idea that people would not get it for very long. They'd retire at 65 and be dead on average by 70. There were 10 workers for every 1 in retirement. There was plenty of money in the system to afford it. Now, people retire at 65 and live to 85 or 80. That's 15 to 20 years on social security! There are last I saw 3 workers for every one receiving social security. It's broken and no one wants to do what's necessary to fix it, but those of us under a 50 who still pay our percentage into and can't invest it another way will never see the benefit. We can't invest it and we won't get it.

I understand where this guy is coming from. It's easy to say he has a bad business or he would have a better business and loyal employees if he changed his mind, but do you know anyone who calls in sick when they are not? Do you know anyone who is on disability and you think is capable of working? Do you know anyone who wouldn't mind slipping in a store so they can sue them and get a quick 10,000 dollars to make the suit go away? It all adds up. We pay for it in higher prices for goods / benefits and less opportunity for work.

[modwiz]

Greece and other socialist governments fall apart for the same reason we are falling apart. Corruption and theft at the administrative government levels. The old rightist concept of welfare state kills the system is a lie. Theft and incompetence at the top is always the problem whatever the system, right or left.

The right gets a finger pointed at it because it has had its way many a time in the US and the more the money went to the top the more it disappeared from the system and into offshore accounts. It is time to clear out the old and false programming. Things come out of our mouths that we don't really mean. They got put there by someone lying to us and us agreeing with them.

[Unified Serenity]

While I agree about there being corruption at the top Modwiz, are you saying that a person who is trying to start a business under the circumstances I described is the problem? That there are not people at the bottom who abuse the system as well and therefore the small business owner is the problem because they are at the top? It's not the government getting the money per say in regards to the small business trying to hire people under the circumstances the guy said he was dealing with, but people not working whom he cannot fire and he cannot afford to hire others to fill that spot or he has no profits to grow the business or take care of himself and his family.

I think there are problems at the top and bottom.

[VaughnB]

I'm leaving California next week, goin to the NW, greater opportunity and higher literacy. I'm not looking forward to the rain, although I'm kinda used to it, having lived there most my life.

I'm over 50, way over qualified for most jobs, have been unemployed here in California over 2 years. It's tough, but I'm very optimistic, can't be anything else. We've gotten very frugal, spend only on essentials and let the rest go.

We still share what little we have with our neighbors who have children and are worse off even than we are. Today I'm plastering our neighbors house for free, it's alot of work but I like to keep busy and they do so appreciate it. I really try to keep in good spirits, a light and loving heart. I've had to ask for help and am thankful it has been given.

We're all in this together and we will prevail by keeping our humanity, grace and compassion for one another. Nothing ever good comes from fear or worry. So give someone a smile, a kind word or a pat on the back, it costs you nothing and could truly make someone's day a little brighter.

[Jenci]

And we wonder why Greece and other socialist systems are falling apart when they have lavish vacation time, retirement ages and benefits.

Are you sure about this, Serenity. That it has nothing to do with Greece being given a currency that was designed to fail in the first place?
Jeanette

[modwiz]

While I agree about there being corruption at the top Modwiz, are you saying that a person who is trying to start a business under the circumstances I described is the problem? That there are not people at the bottom who abuse the system as well and therefore the small business owner is the problem because they are at the top? It's not the government getting the money per say in regards to the small business trying to hire people under the circumstances the guy said he was dealing with, but people not working whom he cannot fire and he cannot afford to hire others to fill that spot or he has no profits to grow the business or take care of himself and his family.

I think there are problems at the top and bottom.

No, your small business example is understandable. Again, even that example is in the very predatory system we have here. Its a fact, but an ugly one. It was the Greece example and governments taking care of their citizens in a caring fashion being reasons for failure that set me off on my rant. I think if you look inside you will see that statements like that come from programming and the memes like left,right, conservative, liberal and so on from the old days that are vestiges of a paradigm we are abandoning. If I'm wrong, I'll cope.

My big statement is the whole lack and tight budget concepts we were all raised on are bogus. Bonuses did not shrink during the poorest bank performance in memory. There is no lack, there are just suckers and the BS they imprison themselves with. We have to admit it. We have all been chumped by almost every part of a system that was supposedly there to look out and after us.

We live and learn and hopefully won't get fooled again. (Cue, Pete Townsend and a power chord)

[blufire]

If we all continue to play the game according to ‘their’ rules then whether you’re an employer or employee . . . we both are submitting to a continual insidious type of slavery. Neither wins and it keeps us solidly divided in an additional way.

I flat out refuse to play the game any more. . . . . period. I won’t play by their rules nor try to change the rules to my benefit, both are hopeless.

Instead I am trying to look carefully in how I can change my own paradigm and stealthily use the system to my advantage when I can. By doing this I hope to encourage others to do the same . . . lead by example . . . but I have to figure it out first.

But you know, a problem I’m running into is finding others who want to do the same. Even in PA . . . . it is as if everyone is paralyzed and unwilling to take that first step to freedom. I see and read about many here that want a different life and hate the world system (which is going to ratchet down tighter), but mostly only complain.

I wish I knew what it would take to get just a few to take that first step . . . . . Anyone want to share what is holding you back??

[seko]

I stopped working for companies, starting my business now. Couldn't stand it anymore been told what to do....be here at certain time etc, etc...where is the freedom???

My girlfriend and myself will be running our business providing a service...massage therapists. We will pay taxes for small business, flat rate. No matter how much we make. We are talking about 15usd every two months. That's not bad is it??

We will not hire anybody only us. No accountant, no auditory, no cash register. Just our taxes every two months.

[CdnSirian]

Please let me know when you have figured it out! Not being sarcastic!

[blufire]

Please let me know when you have figured it out! Not being sarcastic!

Wanna help?? Not being sarcastic either . . . . .

[Kindred]

I don't want your job, or your money...

[Maia Gabrial]

So, what happens to women, ppl over 50 and under 25? Freeze them out of a job and a way to provide for themselves? Ladies, why not go back to the days of being barefoot and pregnant as the only career option left to you? BTW mo tYst women over 50 don't want to go through that anymore.
The point I'm making is that this is prejudice and unfairness to the max.... Smart business leaders will find a way to plan for things like pregnancies and lazy employees (which costs a company more money in the long run).

[GlassSteagallfan]

Using subcontractors and part-time employees solves some problems. Most retail businesses in my area only hire part time.


To blufire: sounds like you want to go off the grid!?

[Virgo]

i run a small business with two full time employees. i've received quotes for health insurance of more than $400/mn for individuals and $800/mn for employee and family. I think this is so high. In my state we are locked in and can only shop insurance locally. It would be nice if we could look for insurance in other markets or if like businesses could pool together to hopefully get more competitive pricing?
there are lots of rules and regulations for corporations but i think they are fair for the most part. I believe historically corporations pay income or profit tax. it’s the individual that really gets socked for paying taxes on their income. Folks should not have to pay taxes on their labor.

[eaglespirit]

Each and Every One of Us has the innate abilities to be a self-employed-sovereign individual energy even in an 'employee' situation...
We can change the whole mixed up mess by simply engaging that workaday world with a spiritual upbeat even in an 8 hour shift...
Your aptitude and attitude and awareness shifts the day by day work shift...no kidding!

...and if You do not find it 'working' for You even after giving it Your best shot...it may be time to shift to something You know how to do very, very well and like to do very, very much and make a living living that...now is the time like no other!

[Flash]

All I have to say is it is incredibly hard to be an employer and self employed. I recently (past year) closed down two businesses of which together I employed 10 to 15 people. Closed them because the taxes ate me alive . . . . if you did everything legally, credit became ridiculous and rules and regulations are impossible to understand and follow as an employer and owning your own business.

Quite frankly and I’ll get hammered on this one . . . . It was becoming harder and harder to find individuals that would actually work and had the skills to do their work effectively. Some of my best employees were older but couldn’t physically do the work in one of my businesses. I just shut everything down and now setting up a life and business that I can largely handle on my own and hire when I need to.

I agree with you 100%. Most employees do not realise that in a small firm the owner works easily 60-70 hours a week, has not much vacations, and is submerged by regulations that are almost impossible to fill. After taxes, his revenue is often below his employee's revenue if you count in the hours, and the stress is not accounted for yet. Furthermore, yes, due to the actual education system, the social values and the moral of the mass (economic crisis speaking), employees have lost either the ability to work without surpevision or the motivation to do so. See the thread on the education system actually going on on Avalon http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?38763-Why-the-US-is-destroying-their-education-system

And we will be both blasted for this.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Using subcontractors and part-time employees solves some problems. Most retail businesses in my area only hire part time.


To blufire: sounds like you want to go off the grid!?

And then you get the millions of working poors, with no protection whatsoever. This is not a humane and evolutive solution imho.

[9eagle9]

I didn't understand that....Protection from what? Independent contractors? Not Protected from what?

[MMA_Fan]

Co-ops may be the best solution: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative

In the uk they are now trying to get companies to have much better share schemes for the employees. Great idea - and it works.

[Amaterasu]

When I read stuff like this I both empathize with the writer and then consider how life might be if We eliminated the need for money.

Now, I am sure many will say that is impossible, but I assure You that, though there are high obstacles - such as calling forth from black ops (here in the US where I am) the free energy tech They keep hidden - We CAN do it. In fact, it is for that reason that the tech, electrogravitics, is kept hidden.

The reason free energy would eliminate the need for money is because all money represents is meaningful energy expended in an energy-scarce society. (One can grasp this most easily by considering the first hunter, gatherer, farmer, miner. The stuff They gained/used was free: critters, fruits, vegetables, nuts, seed, sun, soil, rain, ores. It was the meaningful energy expended that gave "value" to the stuff: the killing, picking, tilling, weeding, harvesting, mining, transporting.)

So... Adding abundantly what money represents would reduce the need for money...but what about the necessary jobs no One wants to do? Just now in Our history We are at a stage in developing robots which can do that work, making Human energy for such work unneeded. What adding these two thing would do is:

Eliminate poverty (whatever One wants is free)
Eliminate hunger (with food distributed by need and not profit, VAST waste will be avoided - supermarkets alone throw out hundreds of thousands of TONS of food a MONTH)
Eliminate war (with no profit motive, the war suppliers will not be motivated to instigate wars to Their gain)
Eliminate the control the power elite have over Us
Free Us to follow Our bliss - within the three Laws

1. Do not willfully harm or kill another Being
2. Do not willfully take or damage another Being’s property
3. Do not willfully defraud another Being

(Beings (cap the "B") are sapient, animals are beings.)

Once money is removed, and with the Interweb for global communication, We can chaotically govern Ourselves through a website with local, regional, hyper-regional (continental?), and global levels where problems can be reported, discussed, and actions taken on solutions that are the BEST and not the cheapest or most profitable.

We can eliminate other waste: products will be made to last as there will be no motive for "planned obsolescence" to create additional sales, no need for "theft-deterring" packaging, and so on.

For more on a "platform" to seed the chaos into fractalizing into a positive society, please see: http://www.openlounge.org/forum/freedom-forum/the-ethical-planetarian-party-platform/#p629

Yes, We surely wouldn't have to worry about who We hire. We will all work stigmergistically (see http://wlcentral.org/node/2419 for a definition), with leaders of the moment emerging to solve problems as they arise.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

fend off the rigged system and just do the work you are prompted to...
your needs will be provided and all else will come into being now more than ever!

ALL the bs has had its day!!!

YEAH I AGREE, but it would be nice if i would see some signs of this coming in real time and real life, not to poop on the party , but hey ive got things to pay for.

[blufire]

Okay, this sounds pretty good and has some solid ideas and thoughts . . . .can we flesh some of this out a bit?

Let’s start with #2 of the laws you have stated “Do not willfully take or damage another Being’s property”

Property denotes ownership and ownership establishes ‘this is mine and you can’t have it’ attitude. Property and ownership causes division, jealousy and greed and requires money or some form of monetary value.

And so if we abolish ownership or property then we would be in a state of everyone should get equal shares of everything which then causes division and anger because of the “Well I worked harder than this guy did so I should get more” . . . thing

See what I mean? I’m not being facetious or sarcastic these are things I think about when trying to apply some of the concepts in trying to get us out of this mess.

I would love to really working on some of this and see if we can start carving out a new path.




When I read stuff like this I both empathize with the writer and then consider how life might be if We eliminated the need for money.

Now, I am sure many will say that is impossible, but I assure You that, though there are high obstacles - such as calling forth from black ops (here in the US where I am) the free energy tech They keep hidden - We CAN do it. In fact, it is for that reason that the tech, electrogravitics, is kept hidden.

The reason free energy would eliminate the need for money is because all money represents is meaningful energy expended in an energy-scarce society. (One can grasp this most easily by considering the first hunter, gatherer, farmer, miner. The stuff They gained/used was free: critters, fruits, vegetables, nuts, seed, sun, soil, rain, ores. It was the meaningful energy expended that gave "value" to the stuff: the killing, picking, tilling, weeding, harvesting, mining, transporting.)

So... Adding abundantly what money represents would reduce the need for money...but what about the necessary jobs no One wants to do? Just now in Our history We are at a stage in developing robots which can do that work, making Human energy for such work unneeded. What adding these two thing would do is:

Eliminate poverty (whatever One wants is free)
Eliminate hunger (with food distributed by need and not profit, VAST waste will be avoided - supermarkets alone throw out hundreds of thousands of TONS of food a MONTH)
Eliminate war (with no profit motive, the war suppliers will not be motivated to instigate wars to Their gain)
Eliminate the control the power elite have over Us
Free Us to follow Our bliss - within the three Laws

1. Do not willfully harm or kill another Being
2. Do not willfully take or damage another Being’s property
3. Do not willfully defraud another Being

(Beings (cap the "B") are sapient, animals are beings.)

Once money is removed, and with the Interweb for global communication, We can chaotically govern Ourselves through a website with local, regional, hyper-regional (continental?), and global levels where problems can be reported, discussed, and actions taken on solutions that are the BEST and not the cheapest or most profitable.

We can eliminate other waste: products will be made to last as there will be no motive for "planned obsolescence" to create additional sales, no need for "theft-deterring" packaging, and so on.

For more on a "platform" to seed the chaos into fractalizing into a positive society, please see: http://www.openlounge.org/forum/freedom-forum/the-ethical-planetarian-party-platform/#p629

Yes, We surely wouldn't have to worry about who We hire. We will all work stigmergistically (see http://wlcentral.org/node/2419 for a definition), with leaders of the moment emerging to solve problems as they arise.

[Lazlo]

In California, if you're OVER 25 no one will hire you. And, if you're over 30 and not already established in Acting, forget about it. Even A good majority that are will loose work after they turn 30. And, if you're over qualified, even at 18 they wont hire you.

I trust that your first statement applies only to the acting world as well. This and the overqualified statment are otherwise patently wrong.

Besides, it is very hard to argue that any 18 year old is overqualified for anything. That is merely an excuse for someone who doesn't want to take an unglamorous, low paying, entry level job. That's how I started my career.

Until three years ago, I was in a position where I hired 30 to 40 workers seasonally. Every other year or so, I would run across a stellar employee to whom I would offer FT, year-round employment, with benefits. It was actually very hard to find good people.

In my current position, I work for a California based company that created over 40 high paying jobs in 2011. We hired men, women, Americans, and immigrants. We chose the best talent that we could find.

And NO, it isn't actually that hard to get rid of an underperforming employee, at least in the US and Canada. You just have to document that they are underperforming and that you offered training and development to get their performance to improve. Then you need to document the specific instances of failure to follow company guidelines. If they don't get better, you show them the door. The reason that there is so many employment lawsuits is that a large number of companies don't follow the law and leave themselves exposed. I once had to fire an employee that I just KNEW was going to put up a stink, and sure enough, they did. We got a nasty letter from an attorney outlining a long list of ridiculous of grievances and demanding equally ridiculous compensation. It was a simple manner of sending said attorney a packet with all of the appropriate documentation in it (this took about 15 minutes) and we never heard about it again, not even a letter telling us that they weren't going to pursue the suit.


Bottom line, if a company wants to be successful, and it requires employees to do so, then they will hire. Yes, there are a large number of small employers who have had to close their doors...but the reality is that only one in five businesses that make a go at it are still around five years later. That's right, 80% of new ventures fail and job losses go with it. In fact, there are so many restaurant failures and new restaurants that open every year in New York City alone, that you could eat in a new businees every day...perpetually...and never eat in the same place twice.

[Amaterasu]

Okay, this sounds pretty good and has some solid ideas and thoughts . . . .can we flesh some of this out a bit?

Let’s start with #2 of the laws you have stated “Do not willfully take or damage another Being’s property”

Property denotes ownership and ownership establishes ‘this is mine and you can’t have it’ attitude. Property and ownership causes division, jealousy and greed and requires money or some form of monetary value.

Here's the thing... I think You are seeing things from a scarcity point of view. In abundance, ownership will be a matter of the things You have ordered (for free) which can include homes, vehicles, tools, food, clothing... And things gifted to You. And also any "heirlooms," things that You owned from before the abundance came about, or that You inherited.

EveryOne will have access to what They need, and most (if not all) They want.

Property will not be an issue, since a great deal of People will take to the sky with Their homes, being freed from the grid. And given that statistically speaking Humans don't exist on this planet, I think adding a 3rd dimension of space will give Us plenty to go around.


And so if we abolish ownership or property then we would be in a state of everyone should get equal shares of everything which then causes division and anger because of the “Well I worked harder than this guy did so I should get more” . . . thing

That is communism. One pie divided equally. Abundance is more like a huge warehouse of pies and One may choose as little or as much as One wants from any or all pies...

No One will "work." EveryOne will follow Their bliss. Whether that is solving problems, building robots, researching, camping, fishing, creating movies... And groups with coinciding goals will coalesce stigmergistically (think Linux) with leaders emerging.


See what I mean? I’m not being facetious or sarcastic these are things I think about when trying to apply some of the concepts in trying to get us out of this mess.

Yes, I do. But like I said, I believe You are approaching this from a scarcity paradigm. It takes a shift into the abundance paradigm to fully grasp how it will function.


I would love to really working on some of this and see if we can start carving out a new path.

Awesome! Me too. But We need free energy to make it work, and I figure that getting the awareness to the tipping point that We DO have that capability is the first step to demanding it from Our "government."

For a free book (really more a novella) I wrote in a science "fiction" style which illustrates the functioning of the abundance paradigm, there is a PDF here: http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/aad67f70b7b43ddc.pdf

[Turcurulin]

Funny... those are the same reasons that I DIDN'T apply for that job! Your loss...

Most of these points revolve around the acceptance of a monetary, and a competitive-economic, system. The monetary system is unacceptable. Remove the debt and the competition - what's left?.. All of us and the work we were doing anyway.

Imagine a small, tight-knit community of which you are a part. Now, one of the farmers needs a new house on his orchard. Do you help him build his house because of all of the delicious apples that he has given you in the past? No - there is no debt. You help him build his house to ensure his productivity and to secure your own future-delicious-apple consumption. Just as the farmer didn't give the apples with thoughts of, "He'll be helping me build my house one day because of these apples." But rather, "He'll need strength when and if called upon by myself or others." Everyone helps everyone because it is the only option for personal progress. This is the type of community that you need, blufire... and can I come?

So, why do we work?.. To get paid. Why do we want to get paid?.. So we can go buy food, water, shelter and all of the other things that we can have for 'free.' The quality of life is the issue. Would you rather spend your day securing these essentials within your own paradigm? Or would you rather work for 8 hours a day, in the current system, in order to 'purchase' these items according to the circumstance of the current system (competing with everyone for everything)? I resonate with Benjamin Fulford's ideas of a "resource-based economy."

After mortgage/rent bills, electricity/fuel bills, and food/water bills, what is there to pay for, really? Guess where all of these products comes from? The Earth! We can all have these things for free, the biggest barrier is education. I don't think anyone would have an issue with electric-bills if they could reproduce Tesla's Power Tower. I guess there's no profit in teaching self-sustainability... eh?

Also - Ups to you, Amaterasu. Great stuff!

[Flash]

I didn't understand that....Protection from what? Independent contractors? Not Protected from what?

Basic health insurance in case you brake your neck (say that you do not take big pharma medication but to need a cast or as me, have an ear infection in the US of A - no coverage, my ear infection was realllllly expensive)

or, a basic pension fund - working independant means having to do quite a lot to have a pension fund (lot of work and money I mean)

or, like me, having to pay for the treatments of your child, am I not happy that I pay only for the altenrative stuff, being covered by the social medical insurance for the other treatments, or by the public funds for special schools. I am a Canadian, part of those costs are covered, they are not in US, and yet, in 10 years, my child easily cost from my pocket 100K. It would have been three time this amount not being covered. She would have remain almost speechless.

That the protection is private or public does not matter so much imho. what matters is the protection for dire circumstances. This is what I meant by protection.

An ideal society would supply these without the use of money imho.

[Flash]

Okay, this sounds pretty good and has some solid ideas and thoughts . . . .can we flesh some of this out a bit?

Let’s start with #2 of the laws you have stated “Do not willfully take or damage another Being’s property”

Property denotes ownership and ownership establishes ‘this is mine and you can’t have it’ attitude. Property and ownership causes division, jealousy and greed and requires money or some form of monetary value.

And so if we abolish ownership or property then we would be in a state of everyone should get equal shares of everything which then causes division and anger because of the “Well I worked harder than this guy did so I should get more” . . . thing

See what I mean? I’m not being facetious or sarcastic these are things I think about when trying to apply some of the concepts in trying to get us out of this mess.

I would love to really working on some of this and see if we can start carving out a new path.




This sounds like something that have been tried, specifically in countries named Russia, USSR and China. It is called communism. Leads to complete overtake by some governmental organisation and complete demotivation of working class. No challenge = no motivation.

There is surely a better solution somewhere.

[blufire]

Okay everybody stick their fingers in their ears . . . . I AM SICK TO DEATH OF THE FREE ENERGY THING!!! . . . .breathe in breathe out . . . .okay I feel better

I agree free energy is a huge hurdle. But if we have the idea that we can’t do anything or very little until the entire world has free energy we literally will never get there. It ain’t gonna happen or at least in several generations. So far, all I hear is we need free energy, ‘they’ won’t let us have it and every writes books and gives workshops about it. Create it now within small communities. Build it and they will come sort of thing. Be the leader, be the model . . . . .

Amaterasu you speak of an abundance paradigm and I agree. BUT what are some practical and pragmatic steps we can take right now to get the ball rolling. And please don’t say we all need to meditate it into existence (okay I was being sarcastic with that one)

The area I live now (SW Virginia) is poised for tremendous growth and has everything needed to grow food, provide shelter and even huge potential for economic growth.

Even the biggie of free energy . . . right now . . . within 5 to 10 years. It would just take individuals coming together with new ideas, willing to adapt when problems arise to create an abundance paradigm within my generation. Then help the next generations take off with it.

Any one out there willing to start brainstorming??? I have brought this up before several times on the forum and all I hear are

. . . . . .crickets . . . . . .

[Amaterasu]

Okay everybody stick their fingers in their ears . . . . I AM SICK TO DEATH OF THE FREE ENERGY THING!!! . . . .breathe in breathe out . . . .okay I feel better

I agree free energy is a huge hurdle. But if we have the idea that we can’t do anything or very little until the entire world has free energy we literally will never get there. It ain’t gonna happen or at least in several generations. So far, all I hear is we need free energy, ‘they’ won’t let us have it and every writes books and gives workshops about it. Create it now within small communities. Build it and they will come sort of thing. Be the leader, be the model . . . . .

Amaterasu you speak of an abundance paradigm and I agree. BUT what are some practical and pragmatic steps we can take right now to get the ball rolling. And please don’t say we all need to meditate it into existence (okay I was being sarcastic with that one)

With the attitude of "It ain’t gonna happen or at least in several generations," it may not.

What *I* propose is to NOT say, "I AM SICK TO DEATH OF THE FREE ENERGY THING!!!" and spread the word. If We can get the word out that We have had the science on this planet for 50 years and more (electrogravitics went into black ops in the late 1950's specifically for its overunity capabilities, though They claimed "weaponization" as Their rationale), We can reach a tipping point where We can demand the science from black ops.

And with that science comes over 50 years of development.


Any one out there willing to start brainstorming??? I have brought this up before several times on the forum and all I hear are

. . . . . .crickets . . . . . .

No crickets here. Just a LOT of work on My (and Others') part to spread the word. I am here to offer My knowledge of the existence of electrogravitics and what it can do. Spread the word.

[Amaterasu]

This sounds like something that have been tried, specifically in countries named Russia, USSR and China. It is called communism. Leads to complete overtake by some governmental organisation and complete demotivation of working class. No challenge = no motivation.

There is surely a better solution somewhere.

What I am proposing is NOT communism. Communism is a scarcity paradigm. One pie split into equal parts. Abundance is more like a huge warehouse of pies from which One may take as little or as much of any pie(s) One wants.

There is still ownership, but the products are free for the ordering. Meanwhile, Humans are freed from "work" to follow Their bliss with a Betterment Ethic, and direct input to a chaos-driven society. (No "leaders" except leaders of the moment that emerge to solve problems as they arise.)

So... I think I have a better solution. Add free energy and robots to do all the necessary work no One wants to do, and Humanity is freed.

[Turcurulin]

It's soooo easy to get off the grid and live in your own paradigm if one is truly determined to do so. It's even easier with a community of like-minded individuals...

Maybe a brainstorming rendezvous is in order? I can't help but notice that you're in the Appalachians, blufire. Amaterasu?

[Amaterasu]

It's soooo easy to get off the grid and live in your own paradigm if one is truly determined to do so. It's even easier with a community of like-minded individuals...

Maybe a brainstorming rendezvous is in order? I can't help but notice that you're in the Appalachians, blufire. Amaterasu?

Brainstorming is always good. [smile] Let Me know how I join said storming.

[Turcurulin]

We can have it at my house. =)

Seriously, I'm "SICK" of life in our society-at-large. I'm ready to start that community that I was envisioning in my previous post to this thread. I'm considering an appeal to the Shawnee Nation (my bloodline) in order to allow my wife and I to live there and start/participate in said community. I can only hope that the old-ways are still in practice by any elders that maintain the teachings.

Forum members from other countries have started 'ground-crew' contacts. There should be one for the USA (apologies if I've missed the post for the USA ground-crew.) I suggest we meet at Natural Bridge, VA on May 20th, 2012. What say you?

[Amaterasu]

I am legally able to claim Native American heritage - Powhattan and Cherokee.

I would love to join a group ready to find better ways of running this planet. But I would like to see an integration of the spiritual, the physical and the technological. Any Who would deny the good aspects of tech, I feel, are denying the product of Human mind.