Schroedinger's Cat and how reality really works [Archive]

Bill Ryan

17th July 2010, 10:34

can you explain how the timeline works?

Schrödinger's Cat on a macro level.

Off-topic (sort of), but great fun:

---------

The story of Schroedinger's cat (an epic poem) (http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/113/the-story-of-schroedingers-cat-an-epic-poem)

May 7, 1982

Dear Cecil:

Cecil, you're my final hope

Of finding out the true Straight Dope

For I have been reading of Schroedinger's cat

But none of my cats are at all like that.

This unusual animal (so it is said)

Is simultaneously live and dead!

What I don't understand is just why he

Can't be one or other, unquestionably.

My future now hangs in between eigenstates.

In one I'm enlightened, the other I ain't.

If you understand, Cecil, then show me the way

And rescue my psyche from quantum decay.

But if this queer thing has perplexed even you,

Then I will and won't see you in Schroedinger's zoo.

— Randy F, Chicago

Cecil Adams replies:

Schroedinger, Erwin! Professor of physics!

Wrote daring equations! Confounded his critics!

(Not bad, eh? Don't worry. This part of the verse

Starts off pretty good, but it gets a lot worse.)

Win saw that the theory that Newton'd invented

By Einstein's discov'ries had been badly dented.

What now? wailed his colleagues. Said Erwin, "Don't panic,

No grease monkey I, but a quantum mechanic.

Consider electrons. Now, these teeny articles

Are sometimes like waves, and then sometimes like particles.

If that's not confusing, the nuclear dance

Of electrons and suchlike is governed by chance!

No sweat, though--my theory permits us to judge

Where some of 'em is and the rest of 'em was."

Not everyone bought this. It threatened to wreck

The comforting linkage of cause and effect.

E'en Einstein had doubts, and so Schroedinger tried

To tell him what quantum mechanics implied.

Said Win to Al, "Brother, suppose we've a cat,

And inside a tube we have put that cat at--

Along with a solitaire deck and some Fritos,

A bottle of Night Train, a couple mosquitoes

(Or something else rhyming) and, oh, if you got 'em,

One vial prussic acid, one decaying ottom

Or atom--whatever--but when it emits,

A trigger device blasts the vial into bits

Which snuffs our poor kitty. The odds of this crime

Are 50 to 50 per hour each time.

The cylinder's sealed. The hour's passed away. Is

Our pussy still purring--or pushing up daisies?

Now, you'd say the cat either lives or it don't

But quantum mechanics is stubborn and won't.

Statistically speaking, the cat (goes the joke),

Is half a cat breathing and half a cat croaked.

To some this may seem a ridiculous split,

But quantum mechanics must answer, "Tough ****.

We may not know much, but one thing's fo' sho':

There's things in the cosmos that we cannot know.

Shine light on electrons--you'll cause them to swerve.

The act of observing disturbs the observed--

Which ruins your test. But then if there's no testing

To see if a particle's moving or resting

Why try to conjecture? Pure useless endeavor!

We know probability--certainty, never.'

The effect of this notion? I very much fear

'Twill make doubtful all things that were formerly clear.

Till soon the cat doctors will say in reports,

"We've just flipped a coin and we've learned he's a corpse."'

So saith Herr Erwin. Quoth Albert, "You're nuts.

God doesn't play dice with the universe, putz.

I'll prove it!" he said, and the Lord knows he tried--

In vain--until fin'ly he more or less died.

Win spoke at the funeral: "Listen, dear friends,

Sweet Al was my buddy. I must make amends.

Though he doubted my theory, I'll say of this saint:

Ten-to-one he's in heaven--but five bucks says he ain't."

— Cecil Adams

frank samuel

17th July 2010, 10:59

Off topic Bill yet I dare say that's an incredible good poem to brighten our day.

Thank you Bill I enjoy the poem. :thumb:

Teakai

18th July 2010, 10:43

Great poem – especially the way he got the words to rhyme.

I’ve decided that I disagree with Schrodinger’s cat theory. I mean – whether we know the cat is dead or alive – the cat ‘is’ either dead or alive. Our ‘knowing’ it doesn’t change anything.

Off topic - but the well's been capped.(apparently)

.......Just found out that Schrodinger's cat theory was put forth by Schrodinger to give an example of the absurdity of quantum mechanics.

I don't disagree with quantum science, just Schrodinger's cat theory.

Bill Ryan

18th July 2010, 11:45

the cat ‘is’ either dead or alive.

No - this is the whole point. Reality is NOT the way we think it is. As Fred says in his signature: Life IS mystical - it's just that we're used to it.

When you go to your mailbox to pick up a letter, it is not known whether there's a letter in there or not. As soon as you look and see, that establishes the reality. After that it's fixed (barring very unusual events, which sometimes do occur).

But before you opened the box, it's NOT fixed. It depends on what you already know. For example, if someone had already looked in the box and told you, or if the person who wrote to you had phoned you to say the letter was on its way, then that also pretty much fixes it.

A quantum physicist would call that collapsing the wave function. Schrödinger WAS trying to show the absurdity of it all, but in fact the example he generated was a perfect one to illustrate how the world really works. Fred Wolf explained this very well in WHAT THE BLEEP DO WE KNOW.

To go back to your mailbox: BECAUSE the above is the way that it is, YOU'RE CAPABLE OF INFLUENCING IT. That means you have the ability to MANIFEST a letter from an old friend.

If you do that, then the YOU'VE AUTOMATICALLY CREATED A WHOLE PAST TO THE EVENT - because the letter you manifested today must have been posted yesterday or the day before.

After the reality is fixed, you call your friend and they tell you how they were thinking of you yesterday. BUT IF YOU HAD NOT MANIFESTED THE LETTER, you'd just have called your friend (e.g.) and they would just have been delighted to hear from you.

You create the unobserved past (which is still wide open) to generate events that you manifest right now.

Your friend, who (did, or didn't, write the letter) is also in their own cat box. You see? And you are in theirs. Reality is a combination of the collapse of the wave-functions (when probability becomes fixed through observation and agreement), overlapped between zillions of conscious observers.

This is how parallel timelines work ... the whole nine yards. The above is very, very brief, and it's a long rabbithole to go down, but this really is the way things are.

:)

(now go take a stiff drink!!)

blue777

18th July 2010, 12:26

But that’s not a done deal. It’s only a possibility that relies on, perhaps, the catalyst of mass awakening to change the pattern.

Perhaps there are steps which assist awakening, (by awakening I mean spiritually - to the reality of who we are, rather than awakening to the crap that’s going on with the ‘ptb’) - for instance if a majority of people don’t wake up from the oil spill – if they remain in a negative mindstate, continuing to practise egoic actions, step 2 will happen, if people still don’t wake up, step 3 – each step giving greater impetus for spiritual awakening (which usually comes due to some sort of suffering or dissatisfaction with the material world)

Call me jaded, but I can’t see that being easily or quickly done.

I agree,
quote

(by awakening I mean spiritually - to the reality of who we are,

Threfore the reality is knowing that all souls come from the same source,and are on the Earth to try to integrate, as we all come from different constellations and we are trying to live in harmony , As above so below , therefore there will be harmony in the universe..The Earth is used to ascend the souls to a higher consciousness. the Earth is a place of learning....The more negative souls on the earth have to be shown love and compassion, EVENTUALLY they will learn and INTEGRATE WITH THE REST OF MANKIND
Its Best to leave the teachers on this forum take it forward..I keep on telling you Bill there is more to it than science alone....
lol
blue

Caren

18th July 2010, 12:46

Hi Bill,
Delightful poem, and the well is capped- thank goodness. I'm grateful for that! May I suggest we all have
a stiff drink? It's a good day. I will be having a nice cold, frosty Keith's:)
love and thanks to all,
caren

Luke

18th July 2010, 13:10

I agree,
quote

(by awakening I mean spiritually - to the reality of who we are,

Threfore the reality is knowing that all souls come from the same source,and are on the Earth to try to integrate, as we all come from different constellations and we are trying to live in harmony , As above so below , therefore there will be harmony in the universe..The Earth is used to ascend the souls to a higher consciousness. the Earth is a place of learning....The more negative souls on the earth have to be shown love and compassion, EVENTUALLY they will learn and INTEGRATE WITH THE REST OF MANKIND
Its Best to leave the teachers on this forum take it forward..I keep on telling you Bill there is more to it than science alone....
lol
blue
Following is personal opinion:
Maybe it's hard to believe, but harmony is already here. It's one of the principles of universe, if something is "off" in one direction "here" then there is "off" in another direction "there". A zero sum game, that locally is "negative" and "positive", but on a large scale those are vortices in a flow, that is inherently harmonic.
Trick is that to experience total harmony, your perception need to encompass all that is a "reality",that is "became all and not at all", which is a place where we all come from. I'm talking encompassing whole multiverse(s)
Again that is "large scale" goal. Think going beyond time and space. Not something "to do tomorrow"

Now, I'm pretty wary about "compassion" and other emotions .. it's quite a minefield right now, even on semantic level. I rather call it "understanding things as they are", without attaching value.
Science is understanding things and how to apply this knowledge. Showing things as they are, not as they ought to be. And as such, is now quite twisted, bastardized and given bad name, as many other terms that has similar meaning.
What now passes as science is too often just some crazy cargo cult .... but i cant rant about that for ages :)
All in all, it's a game. there are no deaths, just respawns. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Respawn) :) :)

Deega

18th July 2010, 13:27

Hi Tone3Jaguar,

Thank for the Tread, how interesting,

Here is the comments of a member « Old Pilot » in a Yahoo Forum at http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100620050235AAvLzgj on Shrõdinger’s cat theory.

“What happens to the cat is widely debated. Since the issue cannot be resolved without violating Indeterminacy, we will probably never know. There are 3 positions on what happens.

1.The cat is a macro entity. As such QM does not apply. = The cat is either alive OR dead. (Schrodinger’s position) We find out when we look.

2.The Copenhagen Interpretation of QM applies. = The cat is both alive and dead at the same time. The cat’s Psi function collapses to alive or dead when we look.

3.Many Universe Interpretation of QM applies. = There are 2 universes. In one universe the cat is alive. In the other universe the cat is dead. We find out which universe we live in when we look.

We take the quantum event of the decay of a radioactive source. If it decays, it kills the cat. There is a 50 - 50 chance of that is one hour. Before we look, is the cat alive or dead?

'I think it is safe to say that no one understands quantum mechanics'. Richard Feynman

We need to deal with the “Principle of Indeterminacy.” One reason why no one understands QM is that quanta behave differently depending on whether or not they are observed. An example of this is the “2 Slit Experiment. If we let a stream of quanta pass through a barrier with 2 slits then hit a screen they form an interference pattern of light and dark bands (Absolute proof that what we are looking at are waves.) BUT, when we use the photoelectric effect to detect the quanta hitting the screen, we get discrete packets of energy (Absolute proof that what we are looking at are particles). Then it gets really strange. If we put a detector next to either slit so that we know which slit a given quantum went through, but leave both slits open, the pattern disappears. If we know which slit the quantum went through, we get one behavior (no pattern). If we do not know, we get a different behavior (pattern). We must somehow explain how a particle orders of magnitude smaller than the distance between the slits somehow passes through both slits and interferes with itself.

Quantum Mechanics gets out of this mess by introducing the Uncertainty Principle, Indeterminacy, and the Copenhagen Interpretation of QM. If we do NOT know which slit the particle went through, then the particle is "smeared out in equal parts" and goes through both slits. It turns into a fog. As long as it is a fog, it can pass through both slits. That is: The particle occupies a volume of space with some probability. QM says that so long as the position is not known, the particle occupies the entire volume. If we learn its position, the fog condenses into that location and the particle goes through one slit. What indeterminacy says is: The quantum can be in 2 places at once (both slits).

This whole concept extends to radioactive nuclei. If we get a detector, we can say exactly when decay occurs. There is no doubt. The nuclei are always either decayed or not decayed. But, suppose we do not observe, then indeterminacy says the nuclei are both decayed and not decayed until we look. If the nuclei are both decayed and not decayed, then the cat must be both alive and dead. Schrodinger disagreed this view. »

And here is this interesting quote - [I]“QM says that so long as the position is not known, the particle occupies the entire volume. If we learn its position, the fog condenses into that location and the particle goes through one slit. What indeterminacy says is: The quantum can be in 2 places at once (both slits)”/I]. Then it would mean that if we concentrate enough on a particular results on a problem in our life, and we give ourselves the feeling that this particular results will happen, IT WILL HAPPEN.

I feel that I have so much to learn particularly in this exciting world of QM.

All my blessings.

Deega

Wood

18th July 2010, 13:32

If you are reading this version of the future where the well is being capped, congradulations. You have chosen the correct timeline. The other timelines where it does not get capped are still on going. That is the level of strangeness that is going on on Earth right now. Hard to see it though the veils I know, but it is the truth as far as I know it.

I read the original post and was thinking of starting a 'timelines' thread to discuss it :) I am glad you have done it.
So there are at least two timelines regarding the gulf oil spill, and we happen to be in the positive one (so far). The problem I have with that is I am not aware of people having 'disappeared' from this reality because they have moved to the other timeline. From what I understand of Bill's post, we share a common past that can't be changed thus we should have memories of those missing persons that are now in the other timeline.

My best theory so far about timelines is that we all live in our own private version of the reality, on our own timeline. There are many parts that are unobserved and not really in our personal reality yet. When we interact with other people the realities overlap and influence each other. I understand that as if we add to our reality a version of the realities of people we meet. In the gulf oil example we can still talk to people in the negative timeline, and we can see a reflection of their reality in our own. For example, if they are suffering in a poisoned world we might see them as having bad mood, getting some bad disease, etc, because that would be a reasonable 'agreed' reality that would fit both our feeling of what are the rules of our reality and their realities. I think we are the main creators of our own realities and other people are just guests, so their realities are not perceived verbatim, but through the filter of our own.
What do you think?

blue777

18th July 2010, 14:27

I read the original post and was thinking of starting a 'timelines' thread to discuss it :) I am glad you have done it.
So there are at least two timelines regarding the gulf oil spill, and we happen to be in the positive one (so far). The problem I have with that is I am not aware of people having 'disappeared' from this reality because they have moved to the other timeline. From what I understand of Bill's post, we share a common past that can't be changed thus we should have memories of those missing persons that are now in the other timeline.

My best theory so far about timelines is that we all live in our own private version of the reality, on our own timeline. There are many parts that are unobserved and not really in our personal reality yet. When we interact with other people the realities overlap and influence each other. I understand that as if we add to our reality a version of the realities of people we meet. In the gulf oil example we can still talk to people in the negative timeline, and we can see a reflection of their reality in our own. For example, if they are suffering in a poisoned world we might see them as having bad mood, getting some bad disease, etc, because that would be a reasonable 'agreed' reality that would fit both our feeling of what are the rules of our reality and their realities. I think we are the main creators of our own realities and other people are just guests, so their realities are not perceived verbatim, but through the filter of our own.
What do you think?

Yes, I agree with what you say
quote:

The problem I have with that is I am not aware of people having 'disappeared' from this reality because they have moved to the other timeline

Therefore it is not a REALITY it is a pseudo reality....if it is a pseudo reality it is a falsehood

Agape

18th July 2010, 14:33

There are different time-space dimensions and real interactions happening between them.

And then there's number of people who theoretize about how their own singularity is splitting into infinite possibilities .
It's a good method on how to train ones abstract thinking and imaginations and source of plenty of good jokes.
It's not real though.

Even if in life terms, time-lines are hypothetical, mostly. Unless living interaction between two or more living dimensions occurs , time is linear in each of them and ever after the 'interaction hole' was closed.

It's like the old Zen Masters koan that would ask in this case: ''And where's the poor kitty now'' ?

Does it walk through our minds since the paradox was invented :sarcastic: Did the cat visit Mr Schroedinger from the other plane of existence, just to be returned soon after.

Beware the equation is not closed and goes to infinite because the moment you don't know what are the rules and count more than 3D dimensions to it, reality starts replicating.

It's a good fun of course .

Ba-ba-Ra

18th July 2010, 16:13

All in all, it's a game. there are no deaths, just respawns.

All interesting perspectives. Have you seen the movie (not new) 'Sliding Doors' with Gwyneth Paltrow? I've actually had a somewhat similar experience in life, where I came to a major crossroad and made my choice, however, in dreamtime the other choice continued to play out. So my dreams of that alternate experience had history. It was interesting that when one of the main players in wake time died, he also stopped showing up in the dream time experience. I wonder how many alternate realities are playing out for us at one time and have experimented with tapping into them, however, never successfully. The one that happened spontaneously, just happened and only comes (by no conscious effort on my part) when it wants to.

Has anyone else had a similar experience? Ba-ba-Ra

unplugged

18th July 2010, 17:05

Some of the best material I ever read positing multiple timelines and layered reality is the Seth material (Jane Roberts).

If this entire 3D experience is a holographically projected illusion none of it is real to begin with. The outcomes will -- of necessity -- be based on the input. The input will -- of necessary -- be based on the level of awareness/consciousness selecting the input. The timelines will converge or separate based on new input. Some timelines will become more "present" as they are supported by combined, synergistic threads of new awareness. Some timelines (and relationships within the timeline) will depart because they are no longer supported by new energy constructs (beliefs about "reality" formed by new awareness).

And so it goes (for the most part). :rapture:

tone3jaguar

18th July 2010, 18:52

Hi Tone3Jaguar,

Thank for the Tread, how interesting,

Deega

Wish I could take the credit for it. Bill created it as a result of a tangent that the BP oil thread went off on due to a post of mine. Thanks Bill:)

There are many people the world over that have reported glitches in their personal perception of the time stream they have been or are on. I have personally had some very drastic examples of this including dates for special events suddenly being different and me being the only one who remembers it being any different.

One time for 2 weeks I had some chips in the paint on the front left fender of my car that I had no idea how they got there. Then as suddenly as they where there they where gone. Similarly, the gear shift knob in my car had been stripped out by some jack ass mechanic and was loose for a few months. Then suddenly one day the threads where perfect inside it and have been ever since.

The entire inside of a grocery store was seemingly completely remodeled over night that I use to go to while in College and the people there where perplexed when I asked about how they did it so fast. Perplexed because they did not remember it having ever been any different.

I am not just going crazy when I experience this stuff, check out this coast to coast interview with another intuitive researcher on the topic.

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Bill Ryan

18th July 2010, 19:07

---------------

Fascinating article by Ted Twietmeyer about "time jump events":

Three Time Jump Events With Three Witnesses

http://rense.com/general81/timejump3.htm

One aspect of this is the retrospective 'reality-shifting' of photographs... which no longer show certain features once the past has been changed.

Read and enjoy... Schrödinger's Cat at its best. :)

Fredkc

18th July 2010, 20:45

If this entire 3D experience is a holographically projected illusion none of it is real to begin with.
Projected illusion it may be. And then along comes some shart-ass who says, "Ok, then if that be true, then why not cross a busy street, willing yourself to pass 'through' all the cars?"

"The outcomes will -- of necessity -- be based on the input."
Aye, theres the rub.
See, it isn't just your illusion. As stated above while this may be an illusion, it is also an agreement. It's also fed by the owner of the Chevy you've stepped in front of, everyone else who knows (agrees) it's there, his wife back at home who knows he took the car to the store, and probably the salesman who sold the car (although I still postulate that their input might be minimal, as car salesmen may be a genuine lower life form).

Still within the realm of possible, I'd say, depending on the relative strength of your own Chevy manifestation "out there". Where it goes from there, is more than I'm up for on a Sunday afternoon. Still, if you make it, and the Chevy wasn't there when you walked through, would his wife still expect him home? And how soon until she's dating again? Hmmm... ;)
______________________________________________

Re. "Time Jump Events";
I seem to remember an interesting article about there having been several "manufactured time shifts" in the recent past. These involved causing physical movement of the local solar system, in order to avoid other forces in space (vague I know, I'm pulling from ancient history 'web-wise' here). I'll go see if Google can help me re-find the article.
______________________________________________
Love the poems, Bill. have a physicist friend coming over later, cant wait to show him those. He is what he calls an "old-time physicist" in that he still maintains that "Quantum Physics" is simple a way for upstarts to avoid saying, "Gee, I don't know." ;)
______________________________________________
Note to blue.... try and make sense when you type, ok?

Fred

Fredkc

18th July 2010, 21:00

PS: Yes, it has been a fairly nice weekend knowing the well is finally capped.

Bill Ryan

18th July 2010, 21:18

Note to blue.... try and make sense when you type, ok?

Seconded! (Wearing my mod hat here. Some of your posts are nearly incomprehensible.)

MargueriteBee

18th July 2010, 21:53

I say there are two cats, one dead and one alive. What you get is what you expect when you open the box.

Teakai

19th July 2010, 00:52

No - this is the whole point. Reality is NOT the way we think it is. As Fred says in his signature: Life IS mystical - it's just that we're used to it.

When you go to your mailbox to pick up a letter, it is not known whether there's a letter in there or not. As soon as you look and see, that establishes the reality. After that it's fixed (barring very unusual events, which sometimes do occur).

But before you opened the box, it's NOT fixed. It depends on what you already know. For example, if someone had already looked in the box and told you, or if the person who wrote to you had phoned you to say the letter was on its way, then that also pretty much fixes it.

A quantum physicist would call that collapsing the wave function. Schrödinger WAS trying to show the absurdity of it all, but in fact the example he generated was a perfect one to illustrate how the world really works. Fred Wolf explained this very well in WHAT THE BLEEP DO WE KNOW.

To go back to your mailbox: BECAUSE the above is the way that it is, YOU'RE CAPABLE OF INFLUENCING IT. That means you have the ability to MANIFEST a letter from an old friend.

If you do that, then the YOU'VE AUTOMATICALLY CREATED A WHOLE PAST TO THE EVENT - because the letter you manifested today must have been posted yesterday or the day before.

After the reality is fixed, you call your friend and they tell you how they were thinking of you yesterday. BUT IF YOU HAD NOT MANIFESTED THE LETTER, you'd just have called your friend (e.g.) and they would just have been delighted to hear from you.

You create the unobserved past (which is still wide open) to generate events that you manifest right now.

Your friend, who (did, or didn't, write the letter) is also in their own cat box. You see? And you are in theirs. Reality is a combination of the collapse of the wave-functions (when probability becomes fixed through observation and agreement), overlapped between zillions of conscious observers.

This is how parallel timelines work ... the whole nine yards. The above is very, very brief, and it's a long rabbithole to go down, but this really is the way things are.

:)

Hi Bill :-)

OK, that all works.

I was considering it from a far too literal viewpoint.

So pretty much the cat is metaphor for consequence
and the release of the poison (or not) is metaphor for the action/thought that brings about the consequence.
And we are the experiencer/observer of the result.
And the whole things works on a multiple interconnecting scale which effects the releasing or not releasing of the poison?

(LOL – no wonder Shrodinger said he wished he’d never met the cat – it’d be a lot like scoring a point for the other team)

(now go take a stiff drink!!)

LOL – imagine trying to discuss this subject under the influence – it’d be enough to do yer ‘ead in (more-so)

You create the unobserved past (which is still wide open) to generate events that you manifest right now.

This is an interesting comment. Isn’t your past created by your actions and thoughts now.
Unless you shifted into an alternate reality?
And if you do – are you aware that you did?

lightpotential

19th July 2010, 01:16

I read of some new studies which gave evidence that radioactive decay is not random. If this is the case, then Schrodinger's Cat has a 'classical' explanation. It truly is alive or dead, and this will be so regardless of if or when a person chooses to open the box it has been placed in.

I think that the real heart of the issue about timelines and shifting between them is all about the concept of Randomness per se, and strongly tied into this, the notion that the universe is continually engaging in new acts/manifestations of creation - and this through the agency of intelligent beings such as humans.

Keith

Teakai

19th July 2010, 01:22

So there are at least two timelines regarding the gulf oil spill, and we happen to be in the positive one (so far). The problem I have with that is I am not aware of people having 'disappeared' from this reality because they have moved to the other timeline. From what I understand of Bill's post, we share a common past that can't be changed thus we should have memories of those missing persons that are now in the other timeline.

Hi Wood.

Maybe it’s something one is just not aware of - maybe it just erases from your memory (like in the movie 'eternal sunshine of the spotless mind’) and you get a new memory version of the past.

Maybe it's to do with:
You create the unobserved past (which is still wide open) to generate events that you manifest right now.

About possibilities and realities:
With the oil rig we were told it was a disaster that they were trying really hard, but not succeeding stopping. – but was it?
Or did it go completely to the plan of the ‘ptb’ – in which case, why is the timeline changed if we are still on the intended timeline?

If the disaster timeline exists, - is that something that was brought into existence simply by people thinking it into existence?

So, this is a good example – I think the oil rig disaster was a complete success from the viewpoint of the ‘ptb’, I think maybe you think it was an accident that got out of hand,but was stopped in the face of all odds – do we share the same timeline, or will we diverge? If my point of view is wrong, does it alter my course, or is my course dependent upon something deeper than merely my point of view?

If we diverge, then it would add yet another timeline to the 2 that already exist.
Or would it?
Would whatever was going to happen - happen - and the observers would all look and see that the cat was alive after all and they were simply mistaken in their guess that it was dead?

I think I've started babbling - sorry.

My best theory so far about timelines is that we all live in our own private version of the reality, on our own timeline. There are many parts that are unobserved and not really in our personal reality yet. When we interact with other people the realities overlap and influence each other. I understand that as if we add to our reality a version of the realities of people we meet. In the gulf oil example we can still talk to people in the negative timeline, and we can see a reflection of their reality in our own. For example, if they are suffering in a poisoned world we might see them as having bad mood, getting some bad disease, etc, because that would be a reasonable 'agreed' reality that would fit both our feeling of what are the rules of our reality and their realities. I think we are the main creators of our own realities and other people are just guests, so their realities are not perceived verbatim, but through the filter of our own.
What do you think?

Good theory.
With this one we can all have our own personal timeline :-)

Beth

19th July 2010, 01:53

I think it's definitely possible I experienced a time jump. I'm going to copy and paste a post I had put in another thread.

I had an experience that defied all logic (and physics, lol). About 14 years ago I was driving in the mountains of Washington and I had a semi truck to my right and one was speeding up to the left of me and merging into me. I saw a women in a car ahead of me looking at me in her rear view mirror that could see I was in quite a pickle. I was trying to speed up, but it was a small car and I was accelerating up the mountain. I just thought to myself "oh boy, this is it for me." Next thing you know, in the blink of an eye, I'm ahead of both semi trucks and that women in the car ahead of me gave me the thumbs up and next thing you know she and her car vanished. I got off at the next exit and stopped at a gas station just shaking. Crazy stuff!

Teakai

19th July 2010, 02:31

I say there are two cats, one dead and one alive. What you get is what you expect when you open the box.

Hi MargueriteBee.

I think maybe that works on levels. For instance ego may expect one thing, but may not get what it expects simply because one is expecting from an ill informed or false position.

For instance – taking today’s events as example – there are millions of people who are expecting that life is going to continue on as they have known it and not upset their existence. Millions who expect that the government has their best interests at heart, millions who have no idea that a subversive element has manipulated their society, millions who expect that big business is basically honest and law abiding.
But, will they get that?
Or will they get a dead stinky cat and a rude awakening?

Teakai

19th July 2010, 02:38

I think it's definitely possible I experienced a time jump. I'm going to copy and paste a post I had put in another thread.

That's really cool, Yaya. I wonder how it looked from the perspective of the woman who was watching. What did she see?

Ooh - unless the woman was in the right place at the right time and even had something to do with it.

000

19th July 2010, 02:46

Just want to add in a little extra something to meditate on. Let us say the universe is fractal, holographic and infinite. There we have an infinite number of cats, lack-of-cats, everything in between and everything beyond

"Imagination governs the world." - Napoleon Bonaparte

&

"My own suspicion is that the universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we [I]can suppose." - J. B. S. Haldane

tone3jaguar

19th July 2010, 02:46

Then there is also this. You have probably heard of double blind remote viewing. How about triple blind?

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Maybe it’s something one is just not aware of - maybe it just erases from your memory (like in the movie 'eternal sunshine of the spotless mind’) and you get a new memory version of the past.

My understanding is that you have parallel selves on almost all of these parallel time streams. There are never just a couple of them like crazy old Dan Burisch used to lie about. There are millions of them. So when you slide time streams you actually slide into a version of yourself that already has the memories from that time stream in place. However, sometimes if the slide is to a time stream that is significantly different vibrationaly, like from a sudden paradigm shift, some of the memories from the old time stream are carried over. Then as your frequency of consciousness gets higher and higher you begin to notice more and more because the veils between the time streams are not so thick any more.

I had quite the shocking experience a while back. I was toying with a new alchemical meditation technique involving a Lemurian Seed Crystal and some Hyper Dimensional ET technology. I had noticed that there seemed to be a latent holographic green cube in the corner of my room that I could barely see at night in the pitch black dark when I used soft eyes. Eventually I decided to find out what would happen if I put my Lemurian Seed Crystal inside of this subtle energy box.

I left it that way for quite some time and it seemed like it was helping me heal and increase in frequency during sleep cycles. Then one day I was thinking about the concept that David Wilcock discusses where the vibrational wave form of things can be transferred through space with the help of a torsian field. So I asked for my higher self to put the vibrational signature of DMT in front of the crystal and to project that energy into my while I meditated.

I got about 5 min into the meditation and suddenly found myself sitting in a car I have never owned outside of a house my parents had moved away from years ago. I pulled it into the garage, knocked a bunch of stuff over in the process, got out of the car, and said to my parents "who the hells car is that". I then jumped into 5 more distinctly different time streams and spent about 5 min or so in each of them. In each one I saw them from the perspective of my parallel self.

In the last one I was in I figured out what was happening and decided to try to figure out when and where I was because it was a house that I had never been in before. I got the feeling that it was my house, but I have never owned one. I looked for the computer and found it over on a table by the wall. It was the exact same model that I am typing on right now. However, I went to look for the time in the lower right just like it is in the Windows Vista in this time stream and it was not there. I clicked there and it brought up the file directory.

I do not remember everything that I saw in the file directory, but I remember seeing pictures of me with people I have never met. I was not able to find the date on the computer. So I said screw it and decided to figure out where I was. I got up and raced over to the door of the house to try to go outside and wham, right back into my body. How is that for a brain f--ker?

Beth

19th July 2010, 02:49

That's really cool, Yaya. I wonder how it looked from the perspective of the woman who was watching. What did she see?

Ooh - unless the woman was in the right place at the right time and even had something to do with it.

I really think she did because she disappeared after giving me the thumbs up, it's really one of the oddest things I've ever experienced. Like I said, it defied physics, I should be dead right now. Though that makes me think of another story my dad always likes to tell (pretty sure he's a 1st waver). When I was a baby and in a walker, the basement door was open. Apparently in this walker I went end over end down the basement steps. There wasn't a scratch on me and I was fine.

unplugged

19th July 2010, 03:49

Projected illusion it may be. And then along comes some shart-ass who says, "Ok, then if that be true, then why not cross a busy street, willing yourself to pass 'through' all the cars?"

The answer lies in energy dynamics. You see, we agree to the rules of engagement prior to entering the illusion. But, like's been said by another "shart-ass" "rules exist to be broken." The caveat is whenever one decides to break the rules it's best to err on the side of prudence rather than stupidity.

Given the strength of most 3D participants' belief in the solidity of external reality it would be extremely imprudent to simply "will the self" to pass thru a Chevy barreling down the road. Quite obviously one would fail if belief in the Chevy's solidity were greater than belief it were only an illusion. It's also fair to say that belief in the solidity of the illusion is very strong indeed, given that it is sustained, maintained and presented as fact by MOST (but by no means all) systems of enculturation and socialization.

So we're back to awareness being the only solution likely to succeed. The aware player recognizes that it's smarter to learn how to violate the fundamental rules of 3D energy dynamics before testing the solidity of the Chevy head-on. One must first master alteration of frequency/vibration -- that is, master the ability to accelerate the body's vibratory rate beyond its threshold of vulnerability to objects governed by 3D laws. (A fairly common demonstration of this is levitation in which the laws of gravity are temporarily suspended. Another is spoon bending where the molecules are altered simply by the power of thought.)

Next, one should probably practice energy acceleration until one can successfully pass thru a stationary object like a wall or chair before testing one's skills on the highway. Third, one should ensure that one is more or less intact subsequent to the experiment by going for a walk and making sure all houses are the same shape and color, the right number of windows appear where they should, and the cat or dog isn't talking to the neighbor on the phone. Finally, one should probably do a test run with a (small) motorized lawn mower, a bicycle ridden by a sympathetic, open-minded friend, and possibly a car in neutral with the hand-break off moving VERY SLOWLY down a mild incline before venturing on the road to test one's skills on the Chevy. Certainly, it is to be hoped that one has continued to practice harmlessness to all and would therefore not want to test a hypothesis that might land the Chevy's driver in the hospital, the car in the garage, the wife in shock, and the car salesman with a new sales pitch that sells Chevys as "the car that's safe to dematerialize with you in it."

So, from my perspective it's all about awareness and belief. Use the first to master the second and you'll be walking right alongside Jesus on that Sea in Galilee.

Teakai

19th July 2010, 04:23

I really think she did because she disappeared after giving me the thumbs up, it's really one of the oddest things I've ever experienced. Like I said, it defied physics, I should be dead right now. Though that makes me think of another story my dad always likes to tell (pretty sure he's a 1st waver). When I was a baby and in a walker, the basement door was open. Apparently in this walker I went end over end down the basement steps. There wasn't a scratch on me and I was fine.

That makes me think of the baby not too long ago whose pram rolled off the platform and into the path of a train - the train ran over the top of him before pulling up.
The child was fine - I don't even think he had a scratch - absolutely NOT the outcome anyone was expecting.
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Train-Hits-Babys-Pram-Boy-In-Ashburton-Melbourne-Australia-Survives-Rail-Collision/Article/200910315406924

And then the same thing happened again quite recently with another child - and that child suffered a few scratches, and that's it.
http://media.smh.com.au/national/national-news/pram-rolls-on-to-train-tracks-again-1510601.html

They both happened in Melbourne.

Beth

19th July 2010, 04:34

That makes me think of the baby not too long ago whose pram rolled off the platform and into the path of a train - the train ran over the top of him before pulling up.
The child was fine - I don't even think he had a scratch - absolutely NOT the outcome anyone was expecting.
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Train-Hits-Babys-Pram-Boy-In-Ashburton-Melbourne-Australia-Survives-Rail-Collision/Article/200910315406924

And then the same thing happened again quite recently with another child - and that child suffered a few scratches, and that's it.
http://media.smh.com.au/national/national-news/pram-rolls-on-to-train-tracks-again-1510601.html

They both happened in Melbourne.

Wow, that is some crazy footage!!!!!!!! And not to go off topic, but I've noticed a lot of earthquakes in that region. Makes you wonder if something mystical is going on in the region.

Luke

19th July 2010, 06:31

(...)

Given the strength of most 3D participants' belief in the solidity of external reality it would be extremely imprudent to simply "will the self" to pass thru a Chevy barreling down the road. Quite obviously one would fail if belief in the Chevy's solidity were greater than belief it were only an illusion. It's also fair to say that belief in the solidity of the illusion is very strong indeed, given that it is sustained, maintained and presented as fact by MOST (but by no means all) systems of enculturation and socialization.

So we're back to awareness being the only solution likely to succeed. The aware player recognizes that it's smarter to learn how to violate the fundamental rules of 3D energy dynamics before testing the solidity of the Chevy head-on. One must first master alteration of frequency/vibration -- that is, master the ability to accelerate the body's vibratory rate beyond its threshold of vulnerability to objects governed by 3D laws. (A fairly common demonstration of this is levitation in which the laws of gravity are temporarily suspended. Another is spoon bending where the molecules are altered simply by the power of thought.)

(...)

So, from my perspective it's all about awareness and belief. Use the first to master the second and you'll be walking right alongside Jesus on that Sea in Galilee.

I can agree with that, with a twist that what we perceive as "rules" on this "level" are just perceptions and "constructs" of beings that are "more energetic/aware" ... so the more awareness you build the less "solid" rules will be. Belief in the rule on the other hand strengthens it. (it's like believing in the rule gives energy to being/beings imposing the rule) ... or so I see those things

blue777

19th July 2010, 08:19

Wood

19th July 2010, 08:21

Hi Teakai

Maybe it’s something one is just not aware of - maybe it just erases from your memory (like in the movie 'eternal sunshine of the spotless mind’) and you get a new memory version of the past.

If the past can change as well it means the cat keeps being both dead and not dead at the same time, and that we are just watching an aspect of it at any given point in time (i.e. only the NOW/present is set, but not the future nor the past). It might be true.

I think it is not that difficult to reason when just one observer is creating the reality (opening the box and checking the cat), but it gets more complex with several observers interacting.

About possibilities and realities:
With the oil rig we were told it was a disaster that they were trying really hard, but not succeeding stopping. – but was it?
Or did it go completely to the plan of the ‘ptb’ – in which case, why is the timeline changed if we are still on the intended timeline?

That is another definition of timeline, I think. I was having trouble with diverging timelines and how people in each timeline would experience the divergence. These 'timelines' you are talking about now seem to imply a set of future events awaiting us. That is different from creating the events ourselves in that it seems to imply there are no divergences, just changes of whatever is going to happen.

do we share the same timeline, or will we diverge?
[..]
If we diverge, then it would add yet another timeline to the 2 that already exist.

That is a key part IMO. I think if timelines may diverge there must be many of them by now... If they do not, I do not see what is the real meaning of timeline then. It is just a way to say that major future events have changed since the other possible timelines would not have anyone in them to open the box and watch the cat.

blue777

19th July 2010, 08:24

Hi Teakai

If the past can change as well it means the cat keeps being both dead and not dead at the same time, and that we are just watching an aspect of it at any given point in time (i.e. only the NOW/present is set, but not the future nor the past).

I think it is not that difficult to reason when just one observer is creating the reality (opening the box and checking the cat), but it gets more complex with several observers interacting.

That is another definition of timeline, I think. I was having trouble with diverging timelines and how people in each timeline would experience the divergence. These 'timelines' you are talking about now seem to imply a set of future events awaiting us. That is different from creating the events ourselves in that it seems to imply there are no divergences, just changes of whatever is going to happen.

That is a key part IMO. I think if timelines may diverge there must be many of them by now... If they do not, I do not see what is the real meaning of timeline then. It is just a way to say that major future events have changed since the other possible timelines would not have anyone in them to open the box and watch the cat.

I think the CATALYST here has 9 lives and we only see one of them
lol
blue

Wood

19th July 2010, 08:28

iagree with this notion,I can agree with that, with a twist that what we perceive as "rules" on this "level" are just perceptions and "constructs" of beings that are "more energetic/aware" ... so the more awareness you build the less "solid" rules will be. Belief in the rule on the other hand strengthens it. (it's like believing in the rule gives energy to being/beings imposing the rule) ... or so I see those thing..however I do not believe there are 2 timelines, as the negative people would not be here, but we can still see them.

Yesterday, while doing meditation, I had the insight that maybe the 'veil' that separates us from our full consciousnesses is just that set of rules that we agreed upon before incarnating here and that the remaining part of our consciousness is enforcing, as in a game. I am still thinking about that though since maybe the rules, as you say, are being enforced by other beings even if it is through indoctrination of our minds.

EDIT: I see unplugged has been talking about this. I agree with his/her post.

tone3jaguar

19th July 2010, 13:29

The consciousness of the Galaxy is responsible for the "laws" or nature and physics in this 3d reality and other realities in this Galaxy. We are all emanations of the consciousness of this Galaxy. There are no other beings, just the illusion of separation between us and higher levels of consciousness. We are the "other" beings. Our higher selves which exist in the highest dimension of this universe (8th) learn from the collective experiences of all of our parallel selves. That is the main reason for this multi faceted parallel time stream existence. So that our over souls can learn faster.

cloud9

20th July 2010, 02:02

unplugged

20th July 2010, 05:03

Not exactly Schroedinger's Cat but illustrative nonetheless of the pivotal role perception plays in reality formation.

(... Forwarded to me by a good friend. -unplugged)

We were dressed and ready to go out for the New Years Eve Party. We turned on a night light, turned the answering machine on, covered our pet parakeet and put the cat in the backyard.

We phoned the local cab company and requested a taxi. The taxi arrived and we opened the front door to leave the house.

The cat we put out in the yard scoots back into the house. We didn't want the cat shut in the house because she always tries to eat the bird.

My wife goes out to the taxi while I went inside to get the cat. The cat runs upstairs, with me in hot pursuit. Waiting in the cab, my wife doesn't want the driver to know that the house will be empty for the night. So, she explains to the taxi driver that I will be out soon. "He's just going upstairs to say good-bye to my mother."

A few minutes later, I get into the cab. "Sorry I took so long," I said, as we drove away. "That stupid b*tch was hiding under the bed. I had to poke her with a coat hanger to get her to come out! She tried to take off, so I grabbed her by the neck. Then, I had to wrap her in a blanket to keep her from scratching me. But it worked! I hauled her fat ass downstairs and threw her out into the back yard!"

The cab driver hit a parked car.

Beth

20th July 2010, 05:09

LOL, that is too funny!!!!!!!!! Love it!

MargueriteBee

20th July 2010, 06:21

Grrrrreat story Unpluffed! :thumb:

tone3jaguar

20th July 2010, 14:07

This is the best thread ever... I think about this stuff all the time.
I had 2 weird experiences where I think I was living in other reality, almost the same place but I saw small differences in the place, people were different. My question is how can we do it at will? How can we participate or visit our other selves?

Emotional detachment from time is the goal if one wants to move to higher frequency time streams. In other words, when you start to recognize that the things in the past present and future that caused you negative emotional issues where all actually beneficial blessings of learning. Then you begin to forgive each of these things as they emerge from your subconscious in the daily train of thought. I have been moving to higher frequency time streams lately on purpose by using the Hawaiian Shamanism method of healing and forgiveness called HoOpoNoPoNo.

In other words, when ever I see something in my environment that causes me to feel negative or low frequency emotions, like the oil spill, I welcome those emotions instead of pushing against them. Then as I welcome those emotions into my consciousness I simply state the following with my inner voice. The intention is to communicate this with the creator of all that is, or the universe, or god, or what ever you want to call it.

I Love You
Please Forgive Me
I am sorry
Thank You

The results are not instant. However, you will find that if you stay with it and do it consistently that the things that you where seeing as problems spontaneously resolve themselves. They spontaneously resolve themselves because by healing how you felt about those things, you have shifted yourself into time streams where they where already healed.

unplugged

20th July 2010, 19:42

... HoOpoNoPoNo

I Love You
Please Forgive Me
I am sorry
Thank You

The results are not instant. However, you will find that if you stay with it and do it consistently that the things that you where seeing as problems spontaneously resolve themselves. They spontaneously resolve themselves because by healing how you felt about those things, you have shifted yourself into time streams where they where already healed.

Yes. This works precisely as you describe. It works because it allows one to take complete ownership of all that appears within the personal reality stream and provides a solution that materializes quickly or more slowly based on the size of the number quotient sharing awareness of the issue/condition being forgiven. The more personal (fewer involved) the faster the clearing. The more universally perceived the greater the lag time and requirement for stick-to-it-iveness.

This observation does not negate your perspective that one shifts into time streams where the condition is healed. Such a shift does occur. From my experience, however, it has proven more difficult to shift when there are multiple streams of consciousness providing evidence that the shift has not yet occurred. Hence the diligent effort required to stick with it until one emerges from the time stream where the negative event is still dominant into one where it no longer appears.

lightpotential

21st July 2010, 00:43

On the issue of probabilties, I would question the 2-slit experiment and the idea of a collapsing wave-form to establish the reality or 'true path' of, say an electron or photon. To my mind, it is impossible the perceive an inherently probabilistic state. And thus, when you perceive the interference pattern in totality, you are not perceiving all possibilities 'in some abstraction'. For me it is a real configuration. By interacting with this to collapse it, for me does not 'establish a defined reality' as such. This experiment, is one that I do not consider - from my understanding of it as revealed - to be one that decisively confirms alternate realities. Even though I do hold to the physical reality of alternate realities and time lines, if for other reasons.

Keith

Teakai

21st July 2010, 01:38

My understanding is that you have parallel selves on almost all of these parallel time streams.

I've thought so too, Tone, about the many different versions of self, I mean.
Then it did my head in thinking about what consciousness was inhabiting self, if the self that I was conscious of being was inhabiting 'this particular' self.

Am thinking that maybe it has something to do with the idea of the universe being holographic.

I had quite the shocking experience a while back. I was toying with a new alchemical meditation technique involving a Lemurian Seed Crystal and some Hyper Dimensional ET technology. I had noticed that there seemed to be a latent holographic green cube in the corner of my room that I could barely see at night in the pitch black dark when I used soft eyes. Eventually I decided to find out what would happen if I put my Lemurian Seed Crystal inside of this subtle energy box.

I left it that way for quite some time and it seemed like it was helping me heal and increase in frequency during sleep cycles. Then one day I was thinking about the concept that David Wilcock discusses where the vibrational wave form of things can be transferred through space with the help of a torsian field. So I asked for my higher self to put the vibrational signature of DMT in front of the crystal and to project that energy into my while I meditated.

I got about 5 min into the meditation and suddenly found myself sitting in a car I have never owned outside of a house my parents had moved away from years ago. I pulled it into the garage, knocked a bunch of stuff over in the process, got out of the car, and said to my parents "who the hells car is that". I then jumped into 5 more distinctly different time streams and spent about 5 min or so in each of them. In each one I saw them from the perspective of my parallel self.

In the last one I was in I figured out what was happening and decided to try to figure out when and where I was because it was a house that I had never been in before. I got the feeling that it was my house, but I have never owned one. I looked for the computer and found it over on a table by the wall. It was the exact same model that I am typing on right now. However, I went to look for the time in the lower right just like it is in the Windows Vista in this time stream and it was not there. I clicked there and it brought up the file directory.

I do not remember everything that I saw in the file directory, but I remember seeing pictures of me with people I have never met. I was not able to find the date on the computer. So I said screw it and decided to figure out where I was. I got up and raced over to the door of the house to try to go outside and wham, right back into my body. How is that for a brain f--ker?

Wow.
When it was happening, were you aware that something strange was happening, or was it something like a dream where you think it's real until it ends?

This sounds interesting:I was toying with a new alchemical meditation technique involving a Lemurian Seed Crystal and some Hyper Dimensional ET technology.

Can you explain it - in simple terms?

Teakai

21st July 2010, 01:52

Yesterday, while doing meditation, I had the insight that maybe the 'veil' that separates us from our full consciousnesses is just that set of rules that we agreed upon before incarnating here and that the remaining part of our consciousness is enforcing, as in a game. I am still thinking about that though since maybe the rules, as you say, are being enforced by other beings even if it is through indoctrination of our minds.

EDIT: I see unplugged has been talking about this. I agree with his/her post.

I agree.
From what I've read that rings true to me - we come here with a form of amnesia.

So, at a soul level we may have plotted our course, but from the level of not knowing the whole truth and thinking we are what we are not, we just ride the tide, some fight it, some go with it, some think they're victims of it - maybe it's all about surrender to soul.
Maybe the entire point is to work out who we really are and trust our own intuition and judgement and trust that this is what we, at soul level, orchestrated.

In which case - the cat should be either dead or alive - as it's already been decided from a grass roots level :-)

¤=[Post Update]=¤

I've noticed a lot of earthquakes in that region. Makes you wonder if something mystical is going on in the region.

Has there? I had no idea.

unplugged

21st July 2010, 03:19

...So, at a soul level we may have plotted our course, but from the level of not knowing the whole truth and thinking we are what we are not, we just ride the tide, some fight it, some go with it, some think they're victims of it - maybe it's all about surrender to soul

In which case - the cat should be either dead or alive - as it's already been decided from a grass roots level :-)

Your perspective is interesting and caused me to think of yet another possibility -- that of Free Will. If we accept the idea of FREE WILL there may be timelines/parallel lives where the choice of cat ownership, when offered, is refused and other timelines/parallel lives in which the choice, when offered, is accepted.

Now the choice of cat ownership may have been pre-programmed as a random "pet event" potential. So, in fact the cat will either exist as a cat in the timeline/parallel life where the choice is "yes," and never come into being in the timeline where the choice is "no." In this scenario there is no "dead" cat at all. There is only a choice between "living cat" and "no cat".