Middle East Back Stories and Intelligence

[modwiz]

This is my first thread and it is intended to offer information that is not from the MSM. Most of the links posted here will be from Veterans Today because of the high quality value of intelligence and editorial staff. It is not garbage off of a news wire or neocon drool.

Just a day or two ago I read an article about the Chinese bringing down that drone in Iran last month. The following two articles I will post here will lend a lot of depth and understanding to this otherwise small news piece you can read here:http://warsclerotic.wordpress.com/2012/02/03/iran-didnt-bring-down-the-rq-170-a-chinese-cyber-whiz-team-did/

After reading that read these two articles written weeks ago.
Here:http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/12/08/our-american-defense-dept-where-is-it-when-you-really-need-it/
and here:http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/12/10/the-great-chinese-iranian-stealth-reconnaissance-drone-theft-caper/

I hope to keep this thread about world information/intelligence unavailable from the usual propaganda and twisted truth sources. I hope for a high level discussion. I will answer all questions to the best of my ability. This thread will also contain some of my op-ed. Op is short for opinion and we are all entitled to have one.

[cellardoor]

It was during that period of time 1994-2000, that certain free trade agreements were being passed and ratified, specifically NAFTA, GATT, and membership for China within the WTO


Does he provide the specific trade agreements mentioned? I know that NAFTA, GATT was a massively dumb thing for America to do, but is there any thing to show that they would compromise their weapons suppliers?

Thanks Modwiz

[bbj3n546pt]

Perhaps as a corollary to "back door" hardware, faulty electronic technology and the like, this month's CFO (Chief Financial Officer) magazine has a short piece addressing innovation. Pertinent here is a study that ranks countries and the innovation that they produce. In the two year period from 2009 to 2011 the USA dropped from 1 to 7; the UK dropped from 4 to 10; and Switzerland rose from 7 to 1. The obvious question is why?

Source: http://www.cfo.com/article.cfm/14616034/c_14616106?f=magazine_alsoinside

[cellardoor]

Sorry I found the answer to my question Modwiz

[modwiz]

It was during that period of time 1994-2000, that certain free trade agreements were being passed and ratified, specifically NAFTA, GATT, and membership for China within the WTO


Does he provide the specific trade agreements mentioned? I know that NAFTA, GATT was a massively dumb thing for America to do, but is there any thing to show that they would compromise their weapons suppliers?

Thanks Modwiz

The specific trade agreement are in the quote you posted,
It was during that period of time 1994-2000, that certain free trade agreements were being passed and ratified, specifically NAFTA, GATT, and membership for China within the WTO I would not want you to go away unsatisfied, so here is a little more from the article:
"Mr. Gore implemented a set of policies which relaxed the stringent manufacturing and testing procedures required to pass the tight Mil-Spec 883-C2 standards for all military electronic hardware and systems.
The net result was the Pentagon could continue to buy all the weapons systems they desired but with cheaper off the shelf components.
After all, they were in many instances the same part, just made to civilian standards, not manufactured to Mil-Spec, which we were assured were just as good and please consider the cost savings."

And this:
"They could now sell off the shelf components to the military customers for use in sophisticated advanced systems, profitability goes up, and people get laid off, cost and overhead is reduced, good business, right?
So how does this ancient political history relate to the Iranian capture of a 5th generation US Spy Drone? The simple answer is: the outsourcing and off shoring of critical US technology industries.
At the time of the passage of the disastrous trade bill I cite above, the USA was #1 in the world for semiconductor production and technology, since then the USA has willingly ceded that position to China and today is not even in the top 10 semiconductor producers.
China is now the country of origin for the majority of semiconductor devices used within US Military systems. There are very few companies left who even manufacture in the USA."

I hope this is more helpful. :thumb:

[Mark]

Interesting. This in addition to reports of China possessing stealth technology (http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/3540) that the US could not detect for some years now. Other historical instances where their client state, North Korea, has been implied to possess technology that can fire missiles (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/5187269/Japan-should-develop-nuclear-weapons-to-counter-North-Korea-threat.html) "without prior notice", also implying their possession of stealth technology beyond the capacity of Japan, as a Western ally, to counter.

The posts that you've started the thread with plus these indications of potential technological superiority possessed by the Chinese and N. Koreans explains their aggressive stance in the past decade, as they have good reason to believe that if push comes to shove in any military engagement with the West, they will come out on top.

[DreamsInDigital]

That's no big surprise, just this week Chavez had (key word here) Missiles from North Korea that were bought and funded by Iran, tipped with Bio-Warfare and Nuclear warheads. Some of the war heads were supplied from Pakistan. Confirmed by Spy Satellites and U2 Spy Planes, but....he doesn't have them anymore.

[Cartomancer]

All somewhat reminiscent of the disabled cruise ship off of S. Cal last year. Several very large Cummins diesel generators and the main plant from the engine all burning out at once? The same day the strange unidentified "missle" was sighted off of Socal? People like Wayne Madsen were saying a Chinese submarine launched an EMP weapon. If you watch the passengers videos of the incident you see that an aircraft carrier and several other ships were sent to aid the damaged cruise ship.

lbvd1t-4neU

[Intranuclear]

Thank you modwiz for posting common sense articles.

I would not be surprised at all if Chinese brought down the drone. That would be consistent with all sides testing their hardware in clandestine and realistic ways without actually firing at each other. Nothing new in this, as it was standard practice during the cold war. It is a game of economics in the end. Who can afford to play the one up game longer. US lost a play partner when USSR went bankrupt, and now it is hoping China can pick up the game.

As for China, it is a country that is truly trying to solve problems that dwarf anything in the US. Of the 1.2 billion people, over 700 million of them are willing to get a job at any pay to feed their families. That's over twice the population of US. The rivers in China are so phenomenally polluted, that a large number of them have sludge running through them. Any visitor can see this (I did). China is struggling to modernize, and while cities like Beijing, Xian and Shanghai, etc are world class cities, the vast majority of China is still highly undeveloped, thanks to Mao and his policies.

So the game continues, but I know I am too tired of the stupid spy games. Its time for 007 to retire and the world to unite and go forward. Of course "unite" suggest a 1 world government of sorts and most people would rather kill and die than to be under a single world government that pushes a single language.
Can't have it both ways!

[modwiz]

That's no big surprise, just this week Chavez had (key word here) Missiles from North Korea that were bought and funded by Iran, tipped with Bio-Warfare and Nuclear warheads. Some of the war heads were supplied from Pakistan. Confirmed by Spy Satellites and U2 Spy Planes, but....he doesn't have them anymore.

Ok, where did they go and what is the rest of the story? Give us the goods or a link, no teasing in this thread.

I will withhold the 'thanks' until you deliver. :p

[modwiz]

Thank you modwiz for posting common sense articles.

I would not be surprised at all if Chinese brought down the drone. That would be consistent with all sides testing their hardware in clandestine and realistic ways without actually firing at each other. Nothing new in this, as it was standard practice during the cold war. It is a game of economics in the end. Who can afford to play the one up game longer. US lost a play partner when USSR went bankrupt, and now it is hoping China can pick up the game.

As for China, it is a country that is truly trying to solve problems that dwarf anything in the US. Of the 1.2 billion people, over 700 million of them are willing to get a job at any pay to feed their families. That's over twice the population of US. The rivers in China are so phenomenally polluted, that a large number of them have sludge running through them. Any visitor can see this (I did). China is struggling to modernize, and while cities like Beijing, Xian and Shanghai, etc are world class cities, the vast majority of China is still highly undeveloped, thanks to Mao and his policies.

So the game continues, but I know I am too tired of the stupid spy games. Its time for 007 to retire and the world to unite and go forward. Of course "unite" suggest a 1 world government of sorts and most people would rather kill and die than to be under a single world government that pushes a single language.
Can't have it both ways!

I think you a quite right about 'the game'. The Chinese launched a missile last year to prove that they can sail in our waters undetected and fire missiles. Now they have shown us they have the way to take over control of our most sophisticated weapons, if they made the parts for them.

They have shown us how short-sighted, and treasonous, our greedy corporations are when it comes to profits over national security. I do not believe China wants a war or plans do do anything other than to enjoy the advantage. War is messy business and commerce is the better way to go if you are willing to play fair and wage a battle of merchant wits and not a muscular oriented economic model.

[DreamsInDigital]

I'm still waiting on final confirmation, but from what I understand they were removed by allied forces connected to the US Intelligence. I'm not entirely sure what other information you want to know regarding this? How it's all connected or what? From what I understand they were pretty much an insurance policy to allow Iran to indirectly strike back in the case that they were invaded by either US or Israeli forces. The launchers were destroyed, so were the missiles themselves. The thing about Venezuela is it's within about 10 minutes striking distance of the central and eastern portions of the United States. Which with the general incompetence of US Forces, we wouldn't have any chance of stopping a strike that close in origins.

[Cidersomerset]

Good thread Modwiz.....You probably have seen this before, but since we are talking about drones it looks like
everyone will have them soon and the days of Kamakazi bomb attacks will be back in the next major
world war ....with 'pilots' on control consuls thousands of miles away..

guuUDQv_ERc

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/7885818/Long-range-Taranis-drone-unveiled.html

Solar powered surveillance planes that can fly for weeks.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/7894868/British-spy-drone-sets-new-flying-record.html

I'm sure Russia and China have their versions in development....

So after Reagans Star Wars project....Which is orbiting up there...

The sequal has now started....'Attack of the Drones'.....

[WhiteFeather]

Congrads on your first ever Thread, Welcome to Avalon.

Everything today in The USA is made in China, even our own military equipment is as well, i guess all those ass clowns in Congress voted yes on it without actually reading the bill first. Welcome to America.

The Chinese military have far surpassed our military technology. Stealth is just one item in their bag of tricks.


The uninvited guest: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced

By MATTHEW HICKLEY Last updated at 00:13 10 November 2007

American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft supercarrier with 4,500 personnel on board. By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack submarine is understood to have sailed within viable range for launching torpedoes or missiles at the carrier. According to senior Nato officials the incident caused consternation in the U.S. Navy. The Americans had no idea China's fast-growing submarine fleet had reached such a level of sophistication, or that it posed such a threat. One Nato figure said the effect was "as big a shock as the Russians launching Sputnik" - a reference to the Soviet Union's first orbiting satellite in 1957 which marked the start of the space age. The incident, which took place in the ocean between southern Japan and Taiwa is a major embaressment for the Pentagon.

More:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-492804/The-uninvited-guest-Chinese-sub-pops-middle-U-S-Navy-exercise-leaving-military-chiefs-red-faced.html

[Mark]

Hey WF, thanks for reiterating the point. I posted that same article in my earlier statement:


This in addition to reports of China possessing stealth technology that the US could not detect for some years now.

I also posted another article that shows that N. Korea may also have access to this technology as well. It is becoming quite apparent that the West no longer holds the technological edge. Whether this is through design or not remains to be seen.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Snippet from VT ( Below)You allready put it in yourself but it IS the important part, the US is bought sold and payed for in my view as a result of this action, it feels like treason.

In conjunction with that disastrous misguided US economic policy, the military under the direction of then Vice President Al Gore was “streamlining” US Military procurement protocols.

Mr. Gore implemented a set of policies which relaxed the stringent manufacturing and testing procedures required to pass the tight Mil-Spec 883-C2 standards for all military electronic hardware and systems.

The net result was the Pentagon could continue to buy all the weapons systems they desired but with cheaper off the shelf components.

After all, they were in many instances the same part, just made to civilian standards, not manufactured to Mil-Spec, which we were assured were just as good and please consider the cost savings.

The net result was the company that I was associated with had an excuse to shut down their dedicated military use product divisions.

They could now sell off the shelf components to the military customers for use in sophisticated advanced systems, profitability goes up, and people get laid off, cost and overhead is reduced, good business, right?

End snippet.


If all these electronics were bought in China and "on the cheap", it looks very clear to me (i have been in bussines myself a bit, and when you want to buy cheap, you WILL get screwed as soon as your attention span for quality drops, they just wait for it, it will happen) inferior or contaminated stuff WILL come in, these sort of things on this scale are almost too large to comprehend, but one thing is for sure, the Chinese are a economical power to look out for. Nixon knew it and everybody else since then does too.

China already has a foothold in a few ports within the USA with practically unlimited unrestricted acces.

The conspiracy is a global thing in my view, everybody knows exactly who is doing what with who and why its done, its all just a wargame for recources.

Its a big show thats playing out right now, its televised on the net and god knows what more, were supposed to know we are sold out and we do.

My fear is "we are seriously f#cked" as a global village by this, but i can only hope this will end well.

No predictions from me.

And another thing on the side of this by the way, i have the strange feeling we are all being put to sleep by Fulford and Wilcock with the stories of the (whitehats and dragon societies) and we are filled with a sense of false hope that the wise easteners are going to bring everlasting peace and world changes) To me this feels as a part of the game as well.

I dont hope they are going to whoop our respective white asses for the sh@t the powers that be have inflicted on the good peoples of this earth, but it would come as no surprise to me if this is going to be payback time in a bad way.

Hope i didnt poop the party here. If i did im not quite sure if i'm sorry for it.

regards from

just some random dumb@ss.

[modwiz]

I'm still waiting on final confirmation, but from what I understand they were removed by allied forces connected to the US Intelligence. I'm not entirely sure what other information you want to know regarding this? How it's all connected or what? From what I understand they were pretty much an insurance policy to allow Iran to indirectly strike back in the case that they were invaded by either US or Israeli forces. The launchers were destroyed, so were the missiles themselves. The thing about Venezuela is it's within about 10 minutes striking distance of the central and eastern portions of the United States. Which with the general incompetence of US Forces, we wouldn't have any chance of stopping a strike that close in origins.

Do you honestly believe that Venezuela poses a threat? That is a serious question. The only serious threat in this hemisphere is the USA. All other nations arming themselves do so to hope they can make the USA think twice before trashing another country.

The information I wanted was a credible source of intelligence for a story that sounds like more neocon drool and fear mongering for a portion of the USA population that cowers like children from a bogie man.

[another bob]

It is becoming quite apparent that the West no longer holds the technological edge. Whether this is through design or not remains to be seen.

It's my understanding that there are two competing factions involved in doling out technology up-grades -- one that would like to see us progress out into space, for example, and the other that would like to see us remain stone age-bound. They'll use human nations and events as chess pieces. It's an old story, variously conceived as some kind of war in heaven, or battle for our souls, hearts, and minds. Both sides, moreover, are constantly recruiting. Every choice we make is a reaction to the test, the test to determine which side we'll align with. Our behavior signals our allegiance, and will also determine which direction we go when the test is done and the scores are evaluated during the life review.

:yo:

[DreamsInDigital]

Do I think Chavez would be crazy enough to do it? Yes, I think Chavez is crazy enough to pose a threat to United States when he is given Missiles from Iran and via North Korea. I'm expecting other sources of confirmation in next few days for this. But other than say that these are highly placed Intelligence sources I'm getting my information from, I can't reveal who they are. But, any details you want I'm more than happy to provide what I can. But, that's how it works when it comes to information, sometimes you have to protect your sources. Tell The Truth and Never Compromise. Something it seems a lot of people are failing to understand, and specially when peoples lives are at stakes, but this is just how it works.

[modwiz]

Do I think Chavez would be crazy enough to do it? Yes, I think Chavez is crazy enough to pose a threat to United States when he is given Missiles from Iran and via North Korea. I'm expecting photos or other sources of confirmation in next few days for this. But other than say that these are highly placed Intelligence sources I'm getting my information from, I can't reveal who they are. But, any details you want I'm more than happy to provide what I can. But, that's how it works when it comes to information, sometimes you have to protect your sources. Tell The Truth and Never Compromise.

OK. Let me state that I do not and cannot believe that Chavez poses any offensive threat to the USA. I further believe that such talk is nothing more than ziodrool dripped into the mouths of Americans. Thank you for your story, but I find the premise of it hollow and fear based. Even if the story is true, it still has no ominous implications for the USA as long as they don't keep on thinking it is their right to impose their will on the world. Chavez as a credible threat does not work.

I understand about protecting sources. I also understand a warriors paranoia.

[WhiteFeather]

One of these days the big bad bully USA, is gonna get his ass handed to him. Karma is a bitch.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Hey WF, thanks for reiterating the point. I posted that same article in my earlier statement:


This in addition to reports of China possessing stealth technology that the US could not detect for some years now.

I also posted another article that shows that N. Korea may also have access to this technology as well. It is becoming quite apparent that the West no longer holds the technological edge. Whether this is through design or not remains to be seen.

Probably by design Rakhyt, part of the global architecture project, its feels like that from every angle i put my feelers out, i think its not an illogical feeling at all.

But okay, its just my sense, if it holds any water also has to be seen.

[modwiz]

One of these days the big bad bully USA, is gonna get his ass handed to him. Karma is a bitch.

Yes it is, but can be mitigated by learning 'the lesson' and changing course. Unfortunately our policy is guided by a historically myopic faction, who have never learned from history. This influence has now metastasized into a world wide organized crime syndicate that needs a serious Elliott Ness and the Untouchables group to clean it out and I don't mean ET's either.

[another bob]

One of these days the big bad bully USA, is gonna get his ass handed to him.

I know what you mean, and sympathize with that sentiment, but wouldn't be so quick to make that call, Brother. Things aren't usually what they seem. One thing's for sure -- everybody's being played.

:yo:

[Billy]

just setting a reminder to look at this thread tomorrow.

by the way, congrats on your first thread modwiz.

peace

[modwiz]

Iran War: What Is AIPAC Planning?

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/02/11/iran-war-what-is-aipac-planning/

An excerpt from this article:
"So here’s a theory. Netanyahu and his camp followers here do not really want a war now. They just want it understood that they can dictate whether there is one or not. And when. In other words, they want to show who is boss (it’s not like we don’t know).
As for Obama, he may just be playing along with Netanyahu and AIPAC because he understands their strategy. Perhaps he knows that it isn’t war they want but the illusion of control.
Only, it’s not an illusion. And it certainly won’t be if Netanyahu gets the president he wants in November, a Republican who will fight the war Netanyahu wants but isn’t eager to fight himself. Surely Mitt or Rick or Newt will do it for him."

What is unfolding is a complex three dimensional chess game, with oil prices and futures just one level of the game. It is hard to keep oil prices high in a world currently floating in oil. Despite gas prices rising, the price of oil has hovered at the 100 dollar mark for weeks with many days going below that as it did all of last week. We have no representation to speak for us in Wash D.C. because they're all one of the pigs at the trough.

[Lettherebelight]

Thanks for putting us onto Veterans Today, Modwiz. Looks like a great source for understanding what's going down in the military and current theatres (interesting term) of war...or possible war.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

One of these days the big bad bully USA, is gonna get his ass handed to him. Karma is a bitch.

Yes it is, but can be mitigated by learning 'the lesson' and changing course. Unfortunately our policy is guided by a historically myopic faction, who have never learned from history. This influence has now metastasized into a world wide organized crime syndicate that needs a serious Elliott Ness and the Untouchables group to clean it out and I don't mean ET's either.

They are very naughty boys and girls and need a firm spanking and a shovel to clean up the sh!t they created, when they are done we shoot them into deep space.

[Mark]

The reality often reminds me, uncomfortably enough, of Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged" and the slow and inevitable "drip drip" dissolution of industrial prowess at the hands of some ultimate enemy. I must admit that I read hundreds of pages of that novel and then, when it came to the final couple dozen, I put it down in disgust and never picked it up again so I don't know who exactly that ultimate enemy might have been. Doesn't matter. The planned obsolescence of the American Republic and all other "representative democracies" seems to be well under way through exactly the kinds of wasting and low-quality controlled mechanisms that Rand described. I'd have to say you have a very palpable point, AB, from a higher, more accumulative and holistic perspective, although that might fall outside of the purview of the original purpose of this thread to follow.

[modwiz]

Another great one from Gordon Duff. Get you some here:
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/02/11/no-news-nothing-to-write-about-thank-you/


"Too often, I have caught officials in Iran telling the truth when others have lied. That is a dangerous game.
I can’t go there are talk to them, they only take advice from incompetents, from Israeli shills and total idiots. For my many friends in Iran, take this in the best way possible. It isn’t about “truth” or religious purity. Iran has its faults like every other country.
Then again,
Nobody can attack any nation with an American base as that is considered a declaration of war against the United States. That’s why Iraq is making serious errors if it every throws America out. That’s why Turkey is so brilliant, with two large American air bases.
This is why Israel is so stupid, playing victim, begging money, and now broke and hated."

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Now what the hell are they afraid of eh?

Every posible potential nuke will be shot out of the sky long before it leaves Iranian airspace anyway if you look at the black dots surrounding Iran.

13622

Are they trying to keep the Russians and the Chinese out or keep the Iranians in?

[another bob]

The reality often reminds me, uncomfortably enough, of Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged" and the slow and inevitable "drip drip" dissolution of industrial prowess at the hands of some ultimate enemy. I must admit that I read hundreds of pages of that novel and then, when it came to the final couple dozen, I put it down in disgust and never picked it up again so I don't know who exactly that ultimate enemy might have been. Doesn't matter. The planned obsolescence of the American Republic and all other "representative democracies" seems to be well under way through exactly the kinds of wasting and low-quality controlled mechanisms that Rand described. I'd have to say you have a very palpable point, AB, from a higher, more accumulative and holistic perspective, although that might fall outside of the purview of the original purpose of this thread to follow.

Synchronistically enough, I was just reviewing a discussion on Ayn Rand at another site I visit. In terms of the factions at play, the comment was that the renegade faction pushing the "austerity model" currently has the upper hand, but things change. In a certain sense, Ayn was relatively prescient, although hers was a relatively short-term view. The entity called America has apparently been in the planning stages for thousands of years, although now there are some big adjustments in the works.

:yo:

[Intranuclear]

It is becoming quite apparent that the West no longer holds the technological edge. Whether this is through design or not remains to be seen.

It's my understanding that there are two competing factions involved in doling out technology up-grades -- one that would like to see us progress out into space, for example, and the other that would like to see us remain stone age-bound. They'll use human nations and events as chess pieces. It's an old story, variously conceived as some kind of war in heaven, or battle for our souls, hearts, and minds. Both sides, moreover, are constantly recruiting. Every choice we make is a reaction to the test, the test to determine which side we'll align with. Our behavior signals our allegiance, and will also determine which direction we go when the test is done and the scores are evaluated during the life review.

:yo:

Unfortunately I have to agree with you. In all of my life, I have seen nothing that is contradictory to that point of view. In fact, as my years continue to sum up, I see that as a constant attractor and the rest of humanity continuing to shape up nicely to that tune. I will continue to push for light, but I know many who like the comfort of darkness.

[another bob]

It is becoming quite apparent that the West no longer holds the technological edge. Whether this is through design or not remains to be seen.

It's my understanding that there are two competing factions involved in doling out technology up-grades -- one that would like to see us progress out into space, for example, and the other that would like to see us remain stone age-bound. They'll use human nations and events as chess pieces. It's an old story, variously conceived as some kind of war in heaven, or battle for our souls, hearts, and minds. Both sides, moreover, are constantly recruiting. Every choice we make is a reaction to the test, the test to determine which side we'll align with. Our behavior signals our allegiance, and will also determine which direction we go when the test is done and the scores are evaluated during the life review.

:yo:

Unfortunately I have to agree with you. In all of my life, I have seen nothing that is contradictory to that point of view. In fact, as my years continue to sum up, I see that as a constant attractor and the rest of humanity continuing to shape up nicely to that tune. I will continue to push for light, but I know many who like the comfort of darkness.

Hiya Friend!

We can also step up another level and see it as good cop/bad cop, or left hand/right hand. In any case, it comes down to what will be our own personal response. This is the critical element that lifts the discussion out of geo-politics and puts the responsibility squarely on our own shoulders. We have immense power to manifest the change we want, but we have to wake up a bit to tap into it and use it wisely. What's in our hearts is utterly transparent to the "players". To "push for the light" is to abandon something very precious to us -- our greed, our envy, and our hatred. We say we want that, but what do our actions represent. There's the rub!

:yo:

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Here is a reasonable piece of info from Foster Gamble( not sure what to make of this man, but thrive was ok)its from his blog.

O36Zof9U9UY

Funny thing is, he says the US suplied the Iranians with at least two reactors during the rule of the Shah(some time ago now) and the atomic energy commission says they are defenitly NOT building nuclear weapons. So whats going on then.

Maybe they are freaked out by the Iranians, because they themselves already know for a long time these oilwells WILL dry up and they are building something completely different in their underground facilities and is the US trying to prevent this from ever entering the free market.

How about compact free energy devices ( we all know here it can be done and why not by Iran? The middle East is the birthplace of mathematics, our alfabet, a lot of filosofy, astronomy, so they are not stupid)

And Iran is surrounded by all these bases, it does appear they are trying to keep something in.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

#3304 - Former Member of Russian Joint Chiefs of Staff Col.-Gen. Leonid Ivashov: Russia Is Ready to Use Military Power to Defend Iran and Syria; Attack on Syria or Iran Is Indirect Attack on Russia; US in Libya Like Hitler in Poland
Russia Today TV (Russia) - February 1, 2012 - 02:28

http://www.memritv.org/#

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Not up to date but interesting nevertheless.

Something to discuss

Check out the resources page on the missile threat site


http://www.missilethreat.com/thethreat/pageID.247/default.asp


http://thelastcolumnist.com/world/iran-the-strait-of-hormuz-..


http://midnightwatcher.wordpress.com/2011/12/16/china-is-hel...


http://www.spacewar.com/

[Cidersomerset]

Hi all a couple of items put up by KT light are worth adding here..

Kxy-afPdM-E

Israel supporting Iranian seperatists that are commiting
attacks on Iran....

[Cidersomerset]

Kerrys Live stream friday 10th feb...

SKYNET _ ANTHONY SANCHEZ & JAY WEIDNER

http://www.livestream.com/projectcamelotlive/video?clipId=pla_ef4326ca-f730-4f0c-99d8-ff16b8bfab5f&utm_source=lslibrary&utm_medium=ui-thumb


This is a excellellent discussion between two highly credible researchers with Kerry
and they discuss a wide range of current threats from China, Ets, project Leanid
Dulce, Grays , and how the US is being deliberally set to fail so the elite bloodlines
will be able to use China to ultimately reduce world population,,moon activity and
more...

[778 neighbour of some guy]

post removed by me 665, long not relevant missile list

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Post deleted by 665, not relevant to discussion by OP.

[mountain_jim]

Most of the links posted here will be from Veterans Today because of the high quality value of intelligence and editorial staff. It is not garbage off of a news wire or neocon drool.

<snip>

Just a day or two ago I read an article about the Chinese bringing down that drone in Iran last month. I hope to keep this thread about world information/intelligence unavailable from the usual propaganda and twisted truth sources. I hope for a high level discussion..

Thanks, Modwiz.

I do read Veteran's Today, value their reporting in all areas.

Based on your desired focus for this thread, I will not post the link that was I so tempted to :)

concerning :


Mehran Tavakoli Keshe, an Iranian scientist and engineer, claims that an Iranian flying saucer technology he developed was used to capture the Sentinel drone about which the mainstream media has been reporting

but that story, well-spread around, as well as Wilcock's ET-cause attribution, does further illustrate how how almost every significant military, weapons, or related news story these days get's corrupted or spun with these alternative flights of fancy/disinfo/shocking-truth-who-knows aspects to muddy the waters or deepen the rabbit hole.

I think having China hacking-help makes the most sense myself.

But here at Avalon the tension between the rationalists and the ETs-or-their-tech-are-behind-everything-happening-these-days point-of-views is undeniable. (Heck, even within myself and my views, this tension exists. )

(backs out of thread slowly after demonstrated inability to avoid a digression....)

[modwiz]

Most of the links posted here will be from Veterans Today because of the high quality value of intelligence and editorial staff. It is not garbage off of a news wire or neocon drool.

<snip>

Just a day or two ago I read an article about the Chinese bringing down that drone in Iran last month. I hope to keep this thread about world information/intelligence unavailable from the usual propaganda and twisted truth sources. I hope for a high level discussion..

Thanks, Modwiz.

I do read Veteran's Today, value their reporting in all areas.

Based on your desired focus for this thread, I will not post the link that was I so tempted to :)

concerning :


Mehran Tavakoli Keshe, an Iranian scientist and engineer, claims that an Iranian flying saucer technology he developed was used to capture the Sentinel drone about which the mainstream media has been reporting

but that story, well-spread around, does further illustrate how how almost every significant military, weapons, or related news story these days get's corrupted or spun with these alternative flights of fancy/disinfo/shocking-truth-who-knows aspects to muddy the waters or deepen the rabbit hole.

I think having China hacking-help makes the most sense myself.

But here at Avalon the tension between the rationalists and the ETs-or-their-tech-are-behind-everything-happening-these-days point-of-views is undeniable. (Heck, even within myself and my views, this tension exists. )

(backs out of thread slowly after demonstrated inability to avoid a digression....)

Thank you your input and discipline. I am have read the story you speak of here. I am glad to be aware of it but find the Chinese story far more plausible. It was when two dots, weeks apart, came together for me that I thought a report with ample back story and history was available. Just as Ben Fulfords story finds a resonance with the parallel story of the trillions accrued by Lee Wanta for use here in the USA for the benefit of the people and the illegal theft and appropriation of it by the very same rogue's gallery you find in the Fulford/Wilcock story.

I live a very magical and mystical existence, but my idea of being grounded is head in the clouds and feet on the Earth. I call that "being larger than life" and it lends a very broad perspective on things. I look forward to having a good crew in this thread bringing good intelligence into the picture. Well considered opinions are very welcome, after all, that is part of what Gordon Duff does. He gives us his very well informed opinion, but it is still an opinion and open to discretion.

Back into the thread when it moves you to do so.

[modwiz]

Not up to date but interesting nevertheless.

Something to discuss

Check out the resources page on the missile threat site


http://www.missilethreat.com/thethreat/pageID.247/default.asp


http://thelastcolumnist.com/world/iran-the-strait-of-hormuz-..


http://midnightwatcher.wordpress.com/2011/12/16/china-is-hel...


http://www.spacewar.com/

I went to all 3 links and looked at what was being offered in those reports. My opinion is they are paranoid garbage and/or ziodrool. I find such discussions unproductive and are a part of the fear porn of white people. China and Iran are countries that have had dynasties with longer histoies than the USA has been in existence for. China has never invaded a country it did not consider a part of itself. I feel the handling of Tibet is thuggish to be sure. A simple armed perimeter of the area, leaving the people to autonomous rule would have been highly sufficient. The zionist origins of all communism however, always sees to the destruction or corruption of cultures and especially the most gifted and natural leaders.

The Mongol invasions were Mongol and not Chinese as some misinformed people believe.

Iran is not a threat and will never be, to the West or Israel, except as a strong regional influence that will resist the zionist influences of USA and Europe which have become soulless golems of the zionist entity.

To end my opinion piece, Israel has to define what its' borders are to be a legitimate country. All countries have borders, the zionist entity does not and that is why I used the name the Persians currently use. I do not recognize a country without borders, because such a thing does not exist.

I will end this with stating that if I do not thank a post it is because I do not think it adds to a reasonable discussion. Paranoid, light bending reports of hysteria are not helpful.

[Hughe]

Everything has been carefully planned and engineered IMHO. Without real peace on planet Earth, humanity won't move forward.



I went to all 3 links and looked at what was being offered in those reports. My opinion is they are paranoid garbage and/or ziodrool. I find such discussions unproductive and are a part of the fear porn of white people. China and Iran are countries that have had dynasties with longer histoies than the USA has been in existence for. China has never invaded a country it did not consider a part of itself. I feel the handling of Tibet is thuggish to be sure. A simple armed perimeter of the area, leaving the people to autonomous rule would have been highly sufficient. The zionist origins of all communism however, always sees to the destruction or corruption of cultures and especially the most gifted and natural leaders.

The history of China is bloody wars and conflicts. In mainland China which is the size of U.S houses 150 to 200 human races who have unique culture. The Han people established ideology a thousand years ago that China is center of the world. Technically the Han people ruled unified China for few hundred years. Because history is written by the winner, China fabricated, destroyed real history.

Since World War II, the brutality of China became exponential. The Chinese communist party has been slaughtered 100 million plus Chinese. Chinese and former Russian governments converted Asian nations for war zone. China slaughtered 10% of population. North Korea followed China. During Korean war in 1950s, South Korean government slaughtered one million citizens tagging them as communists. How about Vietnam, Cambodia? The number is huge.
War mongers, the military industrial complex just loved the cold war era. Were the collapsing of Soviet Union was planned?

What does it say? It's funny people think China is better nation than U.S. Looking at the number of mass kills.

I'm an Asian. Sometimes I'm so F**ing angry why Asians are so docile, easily manipulated by few individuals. Anyone who actually lived in Asia knows in Asian culture beyond nations, individuality is almost null. Each nation has one collective hive. This is great for manipulation.

The fact is U.S has been supporting China become powerful nation. U.S knowingly shipped out all factories to China, educated Chinese youth by Americans tax money since 1970s. Chinese aren't stupid working machines especially the power addicted elites. China has all cutting edge technologies and brains who educated, trained in U.S and other developed countries. These highly capable work forces will do whatever Chinese government order without questions.

What's difference between civilian and military technologies. To me it's exactly same. I'm not a electronic wizard. But, I can build a powerful laser gun easily. Anyone buy a industrial grade laser diode. Adding few components to increase density of laser beam turns into a weapon. EMP gun is easy to build too.

What kind of weapon system China has it? Simple logic will leads to the edge. China has all the manufacturers of machines from a tooth pick to cutting edge chips, components. In addition there is Russia too. Russia is another power hungry nation.

Bottom line is Chinese government dose not care about 1.3 billions. U.S government does same. Different faces but same war machines. If North Korea shut down a U.S drone, it will prove which is master mind of whole affairs definitely.

I don't believe in 1.3 billions Chinese people wake up one day and demolish Chinese military forces for better world. China is one or two levels ahead of U.S in totalitarian movement. It will come down to Americans. If they let U.S government keep doing wars, unless external forces intervenes or unexpected event occurs, major conflict is inevitable for war mongers.

I want to see real peace than illusive love and light. All my senses point to one question.
"What if somebody walks in and kill me or other human being whatever reason they have?"

Real security of citizens, I tell this "Give guns to all citizens so that they can defend themselves." not the police forces or military which turns against citizens. They are the modern day vampires that eat humans.

[modwiz]

Everything has been carefully planned and engineered IMHO. Without real peace on planet Earth, humanity won't move forward.



I went to all 3 links and looked at what was being offered in those reports. My opinion is they are paranoid garbage and/or ziodrool. I find such discussions unproductive and are a part of the fear porn of white people. China and Iran are countries that have had dynasties with longer histoies than the USA has been in existence for. China has never invaded a country it did not consider a part of itself. I feel the handling of Tibet is thuggish to be sure. A simple armed perimeter of the area, leaving the people to autonomous rule would have been highly sufficient. The zionist origins of all communism however, always sees to the destruction or corruption of cultures and especially the most gifted and natural leaders.

The history of China is bloody wars and conflicts. In mainland China which is the size of U.S houses 150 to 200 human races who have unique culture. The Han people established ideology a thousand years ago that China is center of the world. Technically the Han people ruled unified China for few hundred years. Because history is written by the winner, China fabricated, destroyed real history.

Since World War II, the brutality of China became exponential. The Chinese communist party has been slaughtered 100 million plus Chinese. What does it say? It's funny people think China is better nation than U.S. Looking at the number of mass kills.

I'm an Asian. Sometimes I'm so F**ing angry why Asians are so docile, easily manipulated by few individuals. Anyone who actually lived in Asia knows in Asian culture beyond nations, individuality is almost null. Each nation has one collective hive. This is great for manipulation.

The fact is U.S has been supporting China become powerful nation. U.S knowingly shipped out all factories to China, educated Chinese youth by Americans tax money since 1970s. Chinese aren't stupid working machines especially the power addicted elites. China has all cutting edge technologies and brains who educated, trained in U.S and other developed countries. These highly capable work forces will do whatever Chinese government order without questions.

What's difference between civilian and military technologies. To me it's exactly same. I'm not a electronic wizard. But, I can build a powerful laser gun easily. Anyone buy a industrial grade laser diode. Adding few components to increase density of laser beam turns into a weapon. EMP gun is easy to build too.

What kind of weapon system China has it? Simple logic will leads to the edge. China has all the manufacturers of machines from a tooth pick to cutting edge chips, components. In addition there is Russia too. Russia is another power hungry nation.

Bottom line is Chinese government dose not care about 1.3 billions. U.S government does same. Different faces but same war machines. If North Korea shut down a U.S drone, it will prove which is master mind of whole affairs definitely.

I don't believe in 1.3 billions Chinese people wake up one day and demolish Chinese military forces for better world. China is one or two levels ahead of U.S in totalitarian movement. It will come down to Americans. If they let U.S government keep doing wars, unless external forces intervenes or unexpected event occurs, major conflict is inevitable for war mongers.

I want to see real peace than illusive love and light. All my senses point to one question.
"What if somebody walks in and kill me or other human being whatever reason they have?"

Real security of citizens, I tell this "Give guns to all citizens so that they can defend themselves." not the police forces or military which turns against citizens. They are the modern day vampires that eat humans.

Thank you your post and unique perspective, it is valued.

Communism is a cancer that started with the Bolshevik Revolution and was completely zionist at its' heart. That revolution was the beginning of a Eurasian holocaust that really did not exhaust itself until the Killing Fields of Cambodia. As you stated the millions of Chinese slaughtered is staggering in their numbers and as Communism always does it kills the best and the brightest because they pose the real threat to the architects of this attempt to dominate the planet. Simply put, they ( the (intellectuals) see the method and the plan and can expose it. There are "re-education'' camps in some attempt to have some intellectual capacity.

America, because of its zionist control is becoming more totalitarian by the day. The real hope for America is the sense of individualism that lies latent in the spirit here. I live in the USA. The fact that we are a well armed populace is another plus and I'm sure this is a problem the controllers are trying to overcome, but will probably fail to do. That is a very good thing, as Gandalf would say. I agree with you Hughe, that giving the Chinese population guns would be a good thing. The internet has been a very positive invention for the people of this world and will be prove to be what allowed a new consciousness to arise and finally throw off the controllers. That is happening as we speak. Like all birth processes, there is always some danger. I believe this baby will make it.

[modwiz]

Another hot one from Gordon Duff:
"Every institution, schools, courts, police, even healthcare and especially government, vampiric in nature.
When did it become dishonorable to work with your hands, to labor, to create? Is it a crime, somehow, to live in a world free of dividend checks and mysterious foreign bank accounts. For a while, war, war sold as religious crusade, was honorable until the maimed and the beflagged coffins began returning home.
Then it came down to rebranding, heroes and “crusaders” became “sponges” and “undesirables,” filling our jails, our divorce courts and now shot down like animals at slaughter
I think we have a basic question to ask ourselves: “Can we any longer afford our wealthy, our elite, our government, our public bureaucracy?”.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/02/14/america-the-cannibal-culture/

[Flash]

I cannot resist Modwiz. Don't feel bad for not thanking me, I understand already.

First, truly like your thread, very informative and quite just in my mind. Hughes comments were quite just as well in my idea.

But I cannot resist: Chinese military have found a way to teleport a whole army and make sure they have invisibility shield to the Quebec/US border, did you know? Isn't is great technology, all invented by Chinese. LOL

For the Avalon members, my last comment was a purely fictitious story, related to another thread that was also from a pure fictitious story. This last comment is a sarcasm and a joke, not the truth, in case anyone doubts.

[mab777]

great ideia ... thank you a lot !!

[jackovesk]

After 3,287 posts its about time you started a Thread Modwiz...:yes4:

What better way to 'Kick Off' your Thread Career with some VT...:clap2:

I hope this is the 1st of many, to bring back some 'Discernment' to Avalon.

Rgs,

Jack

[Maia Gabrial]

The Pentagon will be forced to buy electronic parts from Korea and Japan. Wow....
Why not have them made in the USA instead....?

[jorr lundstrom]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LOJIwiSrq3M#

[modwiz]

The Pentagon will be forced to buy electronic parts from Korea and Japan. Wow....
Why not have them made in the USA instead....?

In a word, profits. Our country is run by Ferengi so lacking in loyalty, they were banished from Ferenginar. Now that is a lowly life form.
http://images.wikia.com/memoryalpha/en/images/f/f3/Ferenginar.jpg
Ferenginar

[modwiz]

Tarpley - False Flag Alert -
Blaming Assad For NATO Murders
The Kids Are Already Dead, Slain
By NATO Death Squads
By Webster Tarpley
2-24-12


A reliable Russian source in Syria warns that al Jazeera is about to launch within hours a major false flag provocation. Al Jazeera will allege that 17 children have been killed by Assad's forces. These children are already dead, and have been killed by NATO death squads. The goal is to create an atmosphere of hysteria at the Tunis "Friends of Syria" conference today Friday, which otherwise threatens to be a fiasco due to the boycott by Russia, China, and Lebanon, and due to the fragmented nature of the Syria opposition. Please spread this story as fast as you can as a highest priority False Flag Alert. --Webster Tarpley

Same thing here, this post is the entire link. Doing what I can to get the story out.
http://www.rense.com/general95/tarpp.html

[Mark]

You're really giving Ferengi a bad name here. You might be forced to pay for this slander.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd30/rahkyt/ferengi-ethics.jpg

That last post of yours really is the dregs. We must be vigilant. Al Jazeera engaging in overt CIA disinfo to cover for their wetwork? The game is so deep that most don't even know they've been played.

[Calz]

Fresh out of gold plated latinum myself.

Nice thread there modwiz.

I echo Jacko's call for more.

:wizard: