Horus-Ra as the Archontic Alien Parasite: A follow-up interview with Maarit

[Chester]

Hello All, this was posted this on another thread. It's hard to figure out the pulse and main theme on this thread partly because I don't check in often enough.

Though, I'd wager a guess that it's not a "Mooji kind of place". He does raise some points that were covered on this thread. For what it's worth, it may hit a helpful cord for some. :wave:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yk0ANlMmgI

source:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yk0ANlMmgI

WoW - what a great video! I did not hear one thing with which I did not fully agree. I love how this guy delivered his thoughts... Thanks WhiteCrowBlackDeer

[9eagle9]

Knowing others is wisdom;
Knowing the self is enlightenment.
Mastering others requires force;
Mastering the self requires strength;
He who knows he has enough is rich.
Perseverance is a sign of will power.
He who stays where he is endures.
To die but not to perish is to be eternally present.




Some people are busy doing something about as opposed to those who actually do something about.



True words aren’t eloquent;
eloquent words aren’t true.
Wise men don’t need to prove their point;
men who need to prove their point aren’t wise.

The Master has no possessions.
The more he does for others,
the happier he is.
The more he gives to others,
the wealthier he is.

The Tao nourishes by not forcing.
By not dominating, the Master leads.

Tao Te Ching, verse 81

[wynderer]

the below is from ufochick, aka Dana , from a link on Duncan O'Finiaon's blog

http://www.ufochick.com/

Hello and Welcome Off Planet Radio Listeners!
Thanks for stopping by! As I began doing some basic prep work for my interview with Randy I discovered something. I have missing blog posts!! Important posts, just GONE!
Now where they went I do not know. I know I wrote them, I know I posted them. Did they just disapear into cyber land? Did I erase them and not remember it? (possible but not probable), were they erased on purpose? I honestly don't know. What I do know is the removal of them has left holes in my story.

I have not decided if I will be working to fill them in, in the meanwhile I decided a time line might be helpful to those who will be hearing part of the story this week (two hours won't handle even a fraction of what has happened to me).

My first remembered experience with other life forms was in the 90s. It is the oldest post on the blog. It was an egg removal procedure. I woke on the table. It left me frightened, confused and with an attitude of complete avoidance of anything to do with ETs/UFOs. I think one of two things happen after such an experience, either the person dives into the topic head first guns blazing or they do the opposite, complete avoidance. Avoidance was my choice until 2009. Then the current saga began.

I do believe in hindsight I was being "used" during the years inbetween. False pregnancies, becoming horribly ill for no reason then the malady simply disapearing and other indicators were there. I just did not have the frame of reference to see what those experiences really were.

In 2009 the nightmare began, well I wish it had been a nightmare I guess I should say the "Hell" began. I was led (Isn't it amazing how things happen when they are supposed to?) to a local mufon group. Met a wonderful lady who is still a good friend and discovered I was being marked. The floursescent markings were appearing overnight.

I began to keep records. As I look back I think it was the record keeping that led to the violent reaction I received from my .... hmmmm... my what? abusers? No. Um.... captors? no....... ok, from those with a vested interest in me. That works.

The more I recorded, the more I took photos the more I documented the more aggressive the actions against me were. What I didn't know at the time was that my being able to record all this, examine myself every morning, take physical samples and remember things was very rare. I assumed everyone could do these things. I later learned most people cannot.

I went through months of physical agony. Things touching me when no one was there, I could feel needles, operations, bones being broken and then I began waking up so raped I could not physically walk upright in the morning. As I look back I believe "they" (I did not know at that point who "they" were) were trying to basically make me so unstable I would stop my recording and searching for answers. Now it might have worked except for a few things. One, I had the markings, two they left scars, and three myself and others could actually see my flesh move beneith unseen fingers and instruments when the torture was going on. My friends and family could actually see the flesh and muscles be manipulated as the worked. The one thing I had going for me was they could not hold me frozen. I did everything in my power to fight back, I used astral energy against them, I tried physical barriers, I tried mental barriers, energy force fields I created around myself nothing helped.

I spent 3-5 months basically flat on my back with unreal torture going on and as it went on, I got angrier and angrier.

Then one morning I woke and I had had enough, something in me snapped. I woke and got up and screamed at the top of my lungs I had had enough, that they could NOT Beat me down and informed the cosmos that any Being who harmed me from that point onward was going to feel the full fury of my wrath.

That night I awoke in my energy body laying beside a reptilian Being on a bed with 2 greys mentally holding me down. I broke lose and attacked, I tried to kill the bastard with my bare hands, then I was back in my physcial body feeling the reptilian slam my energy body's head into a wall, I laughed and taunted him. Suddenly my energy body came back, I was whole, elated and triumphant. I had recognized the whole setup, this was where I had been raped over and over.. I was never raped again.

The other torture continued however and even stepped up in pain and abuse. I finally determined that my ethic/energy body was being removed for hours at a time each day leaving me very ill and weak for the duration. I learned to recognize the feeling when it happened. It was like a vacuum, an energy vacumm was placed over the top of me and my energy was simply removed. I fought, I fought like a crazed animal but no matter how hard I tried the technolgy was too much for me. I could not hold against it.

As this was going on I experienced direct contact with another reptilian entity. Again my consciousness woke in my energy body. I was strapped in chair and undergoing electrical shocks. Suffice to say I now know what a silent scream is.

After weeks/months of this, I don't know how long, I was drained, exhausted and thinking perhaps it was time for me to leave this matrix. Each day 24/7 was full of nothing but terrible pain. I had NO answers. I had contacted every expert I could find, most responded and knew nothing. How long could I continue to fight? I didn't know.

Then one night it began for the 3rd time that day, the upward pull which meant more throwing up, complete weakness, not even being able to keep water down and the headache that felt like your head was exploding. I began to fight and fight hard and something in me gave.

Now all through this I had asked for help, help from any Service to Others Being. If I had gottten an answer or any help I mised it. I just sat in my chair and said outloud that I had done everything I could, that I didn't have the technology or strength to stop this so I was giving it over to the cosmos and if any service to others being could help me I would appreciate it.

That's when the "good guys" showed up, or perhaps made themselves known. They stopped the extraction of my energy body that day and from then on. At first I was too injured in many ways to accept that the Beings who showed up to help me were the "good guys" but over the last couple of years I have decided they are truly that, the "good guys". It has been a long hard road to get to that trust. They have put up with an amazing amount as I have tested them in every way I could imagine.

The reptilian harrassment continued in different ways for awhile. But it was stuff I could deal with. When it was obvious they had failed to break my will they made a last effort and tried to bribe me to "join" them (aka give over my will). Obviously I refused.

I have had contact with the good guys for a couple, well going on 3 years now. It's limitedto my asking yes or no questions and getting a yes, no or neutral but it is very consistant. I would not have believed it was real but other people have physically experienced them also. Their touch is electrical and they will show themselves by touch if I ask them to to other people. It's amazing to watch when they touch others, the person just lights up and is amazed, it always make me smile. They have also corrected health issues for me and actually erased large scars, again something confirmed by other people.

So there is my story in a nutshell. I have spent the last years trying to help other people through different types of contact and the reality changes that go with it all and trying to adjust my matrix programming as I go along. It's been good and bad but at least I made it through.

[RunningDeer]

Hello All, this was posted this on another thread. It's hard to figure out the pulse and main theme on this thread partly because I don't check in often enough.

Though, I'd wager a guess that it's not a "Mooji kind of place". He does raise some points that were covered on this thread. For what it's worth, it may hit a helpful cord for some. :wave:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yk0ANlMmgI

source:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yk0ANlMmgI

WoW - what a great video! I did not hear one thing with which I did not fully agree. I love how this guy delivered his thoughts... Thanks WhiteCrowBlackDeer

http://www.pic4ever.com/images/computer3.gif Psych! You are welcome and thank you, JustOneMan...

[Daughter of Time]

Wyn,

Thank you for your story.

Do you know who the good guys are?

Did they tell you where they come from?

Did they inform you as to why you were targeted in the first place?

Did they give you any clues as to why they waited so long to show up to help you?

We know a lot about the bad guys, so if you have any information to share about the good guys, it would be welcome.

[Bill Ryan]

-------

[Mod hat on]

A quick note, not intending to interrupt the conversation. I've deleted a few posts which I saw as not contributing to the quality and value of this near-unique and very important thread. (Paul has also deleted a couple of others.)

I reserve the right to make unilateral decisions about which contributions don't properly belong here, and I will delete other posts if I consider that they're counter to the overall intention, direction and quality of the thread.

:focus:

[7eagle14]

You cannot empower yourself consciously, it is the psyche , the conscious compromise that is the problem.
The next problem is that people think their consciousness is spirit.
So in attempting to empower one's self spiritually they are unwittingly using the consciousness to do so, as they do not know the difference.

If you don't mind could you take a moment and define those terms? I fear my own assumptions are warping what you're trying to convey and I'd like to understand further.
If I assume that there are basically 3 things that make up my "self-awareness" ...

1) me before I shrank myself into a physical body - my high self - the thing is is truly me
2) my bodies ego - the thing in my bodies brain that thinks "I am." - the part of my body that wants power over others
3) my bodies consciousness - the self aware thing that is experiencing/learning about being a physical thing - the consciousness that is driving the bodies needs/desires

... then which of your terms apply to that model?

Or, if I'm not being to imposing, do you have a different model of the things/consciousness that make up our "self-awareness" that your more comfortable with? One with your own terms and explanations? Is mine too simplistic?

[heyokah]

Knowing others is wisdom;
Knowing the self is enlightenment.
Mastering others requires force;
Mastering the self requires strength;
He who knows he has enough is rich.
Perseverance is a sign of will power.
He who stays where he is endures.
To die but not to perish is to be eternally present.




Some people are busy doing something about as opposed to those who actually do something about.



True words aren’t eloquent;
eloquent words aren’t true.
Wise men don’t need to prove their point;
men who need to prove their point aren’t wise.

The Master has no possessions.
The more he does for others,
the happier he is.
The more he gives to others,
the wealthier he is.

The Tao nourishes by not forcing.
By not dominating, the Master leads.

Tao Te Ching, verse 81

Thanks, 9 times 9 (makes 81).

You QUOTED here verse 33 of the Tao Te Ching. Just for the record.

Mine was the last verse, nr 81, the final one.....


I was just offering you some heyokah medicine LOL


**** Hope this reply will NOT be deleted this time....

NOTE

Out of respect for Bill and the forum I will not let myself be provoked nor tricked into any further discussion.

[wynderer]

--------------------------------------

[9eagle9]

Yours is a pretty adept telling of it but there is a caveat to keep in mind....peoples understanding of higher self and consciousness is often on just a thought level. Not an expression or demonstration of higher self. Like when I run out of gas and I'm hiking to the gas station that's an expression of my mind. My minder, the artificial installation that is open to influence has led me to believe that is the only solution based on memories and past experience.

We see this in our relationships. People often convey themselves as 'open minded, happy, easy going' and then you get exposed through time to them and you know what they are saying about themselves is just a 'thought', how they think of themselves rather than how they actually are.

The people who claim to be most open minded usually aren't because its just a thought, an adjective they've plastered on themselves, because it sounds better than narrow or rigid minded or robotic.

The spirit allows one to drive on to the gas station because it transcends what we PERCEIVE to be physical limitations.

It is sometimes difficult to convey in words and thoughts because those are contrivances of the consciousness, and these different states of existence that we are talking about. Our true circumstances and the false one.

If you are in state of awareness rather than consciousness its hard to have a conversation . Awareness finds most anything consciousness conveys as not the truth, and the consciousness and the ego resists anything the spirit has to say.


If I run out of gas, and then am able to drive to the gas station that's an expression of spirit. It transcends our perceived physical limitations. "Thinking" I can do something is one thing. Thinking something should happen regardless if it does or not are functions of consciousness. Having it expressed and demonstrated is another.


The higher self shows itself in expression and demonstration. It doesn't have to rely on memories, ideas, thoughts, beliefs stored in any aspect of the consciousness because it knows, in the moment, in the present. It shows rather than tells.

If you put something to spirit it doesn't talk back and convey a bunch of instructions, whatever is put to it just happens.

Consciousness is necessary to navigate this 3d physical world. It has been compromised though, one to separate us. We have a collective consciousness , yet we are seemingly separate from each other. Divide and conquer.

Consciousness is surface awareness composed of ego, information from our five material senses are conveyed theree--and often re-translated. Its attic is the subconscious, that which is not known to us, in immediate awareness. It's more or less an artificial energy or has at least been made that way through external contamination. Better understood as the ego with its operating drivers-emotional and mental bodies. Cognitive or conscious of. What you call numbers 2 and 3.

There's other drivers in this aspect of ourselves. In hypnosis there's an called the critical barrier that disallows certain information externally .It doesn't distinguish from lies or truth and will accept anything as long as it has heard something similar before. An aspect of the subconscious.

It shuts down internally given information that may be our higher self or intuition speaking.

Throw the soul in there and you have psyche.

The spirit is what gives us animation, that uncontaminated awareness. One may experience its brand of awareness in altered states of consciousness, like when they not conscious--. Like when is asleep and out of body. There is a distinct difference during this time. We may have conscious recall after we have an out of body experience, but consciousness is not present during these times. AWARENESS is, there is no thought, just choices, there's no "I" present. There are no memories during these episodes because one is in the present and not being tempted into the past.

These are seemingly all one component until one makes a crack or division in consciousness. We have the ability to drive the ego nuts till it goes beserk because it not being attended to, its not driving or navigating us. When that happens a division happens and one can be be CONSCIOUS of spirit or awareness. We typically are not conscious of it because consciousness and the ego are so up front and loud overwhelming everything.

If one removes programs, beliefs and stops paying attention to their thoughts, their memories (what holds us in the past) then the spirit can begin to permeate consciousness. This causes all sorts of changes in a person including physical appearance, level of intelligence, expression.

It also causes conflict because the spirit doesn't agree (doesn't make agreements) to what is going on in the consciousness and its components. It won't acknowledge the ego -- that is when you begin express other facets of yourself, you have different dimensions you are composed of, and you can move back and forth through them to move through different dimensions of yourself to a higher space.

A very obvious example of this is writing on a forum. We are relating in a one dimensional way, that the consciousness grasps on to and re-translates based on its comfort level, memories, past experiences and wounds. Things are prejudiced or contaminated in that way. I am always amazed at the reactions people have with each other based on nothing more than events that occurred before the parties involved ever encountered each other.

People who have done a lot of clearing of consciousness and allow their spiritual expression to come through can have non conflicting exchanges in this way. That does not mean they are agreeing with each other. It means there's no conflict present in spite of the disagreement.

This is easily demonstrated, if you leave the post hypnotics and scripting out of hypnosis you can just put a person back behind all this conscious clutter and put them in a place of spirit. I have publicly, with an audience, and the change in the person is very apparent. The first thing the audience wants to do is re-translate what is happening. It doesn't suffice that the person is in a state of spirit, they want to correct the circumstances based on their consciousness. "Oh they are channeling an angel," or some other belief is being imposed on what is a very pure and uncontaminated circumstance.

You go out of the state of hypnosis and into where you belong. Then you have a common frame of reference to work with.

When I sat in this state, with an audience, I started laughing. I laughed for 20 minutes and the audience got uneasy. Why is she laughing at me? It was not what they expected, not what their minds told them it should be, but just what it was.

I wasn't it had nothing to do with them other than consciousness is threatened by spirit.

And you can't correct people and say, the person is not channeling anything they are NOW out of hypnosis and in a state closer to their natural existence.

The ego does not like to be corrected. The spirit has no need of corrections. There's our conflict.








You cannot empower yourself consciously, it is the psyche , the conscious compromise that is the problem.
The next problem is that people think their consciousness is spirit.
So in attempting to empower one's self spiritually they are unwittingly using the consciousness to do so, as they do not know the difference.

If you don't mind could you take a moment and define those terms? I fear my own assumptions are warping what you're trying to convey and I'd like to understand further.
If I assume that there are basically 3 things that make up my "self-awareness" ...

1) me before I shrank myself into a physical body - my high self - the thing is is truly me
2) my bodies ego - the thing in my bodies brain that thinks "I am." - the part of my body that wants power over others
3) my bodies consciousness - the self aware thing that is experiencing/learning about being a physical thing - the consciousness that is driving the bodies needs/desires

... then which of your terms apply to that model?

Or, if I'm not being to imposing, do you have a different model of the things/consciousness that make up our "self-awareness" that your more comfortable with? One with your own terms and explanations? Is mine too simplistic?

[wynderer]

-------------------------------------

[heyokah]

8 plus 1 equals 9.

I offer you my last heyokah medicine:

Verse 9 of the Tao Te Ching.....

http://mydescentintomadness.wordpress.com/2010/06/16/tao-te-ching-verse-9/


To keep on filling

is not as good as stopping.

Overfilled, the cupped hands drip.

Better stop short than fill to the brim.

Over sharpen the blade,

and the edge will soon blunt.

Amass a store of gold and jade,

and no one can protect it.

Claim wealth, titles, honor and pride,

and disaster will follow.

Retire when the work is done.

This is the way of heaven.

[Chester]

Wyn,

Thank you for your story.

Do you know who the good guys are?

Did they tell you where they come from?

Did they inform you as to why you were targeted in the first place?

Did they give you any clues as to why they waited so long to show up to help you?

We know a lot about the bad guys, so if you have any information to share about the good guys, it would be welcome.

Thank You DoT, and this is (in my opinion) the very most important question to get answers about. I highly respect Truman Cash and his experience (as far as he has reported upon) is sans of any "good guys" though he recently established what he characterized as a "good relationship" with a Gray (I have seen some folks use "Grey" and have no clue which one is more correct).

Anyways, based on my experience which has been almost and only what seems to be "non-physical interventions" and though one particular "personality" I came to know always came across as quite wise and never lied to me nor ever caused me harm from my best perception and perspective, I am of the opinion as of now that there are likely no benevolent non physical, non human nor non earth born human beings that are interacting with us earth born human beings.

I want to believe there are! And in fact, I want to so, so badly that I won't believe there are unless I have a direct experience with one that is.

Even this one, isolated voice I have been able to communicate with, I am highly skeptical about because a.) it is just a voice and b.) how do I know this voice is not also one of the other voices which did lead me to harm myself?

So I am extremely skeptical there are any "good guys" at this point in time.

Having said all that, there are folks I highly respect who have recanted experiences that I interpret to suggest there are indeed good guys. In some cases, these folks I highly respect stated they believed whole heartedly these were good guys.

I hope one day to know for certain myself and I hope that what I know would be that there are. justoneman

[Chester]

Knowing others is wisdom;
Knowing the self is enlightenment.
Mastering others requires force;
Mastering the self requires strength;
He who knows he has enough is rich.
Perseverance is a sign of will power.
He who stays where he is endures.
To die but not to perish is to be eternally present.




Some people are busy doing something about as opposed to those who actually do something about.



True words aren’t eloquent;
eloquent words aren’t true.
Wise men don’t need to prove their point;
men who need to prove their point aren’t wise.

The Master has no possessions.
The more he does for others,
the happier he is.
The more he gives to others,
the wealthier he is.

The Tao nourishes by not forcing.
By not dominating, the Master leads.

Tao Te Ching, verse 81

Thanks, 9 times 9 (makes 81).

You QUOTED here verse 33 of the Tao Te Ching. Just for the record.

Mine was the last verse, nr 81, the final one.....


I was just offering you some heyokah medicine LOL


**** Hope this reply will NOT be deleted this time....

NOTE

Out of respect for Bill and the forum I will not let myself be provoked nor tricked into any further discussion.

I appreciated your Post heyokah. I also have and continue to learn lots from the Tao Te Ching. :cool:

[9eagle9]

Nice, well I had a notion my work wasn't yet completed.



8 plus 1 equals 9.

Last heyokah medicine:

Verse 9 of the Tao Te Ching.....

http://mydescentintomadness.wordpress.com/2010/06/16/tao-te-ching-verse-9/

[Bill Ryan]

-------

:focus:

[9eagle9]

I want to believe there are! And in fact, I want to so, so badly that I won't believe there are unless I have a direct experience with one that is.

We all want to believe there are. We all like to believe that something is looking out for us . It' s a nice feeling. But WHY do we have that yearning to have something looking out for us, watching our back, looking out for our best interests. There's a lot of reasons why we so 'badly' want to have this experience.


For a person who is spiritually healthy and expressive that is a nice feeling.....SOMETIMES. It means someone is being in empathy with you. If it's constant, the entity doing the managing becomes annoying (or depressing depending on what sort of temperment you have). It then becomes a form of judgement. People who are always trying to care take me and wipe my butt are judging me. Or fix things for me, or arrange things. It becomes this cloying dense energy. One learns the difference between honesty and contrivance. One knows when they are given an honest compliment and when someone is sucking up to them to get brownie points. One is a nice thing, the other is just gross dense energy as they impose their gross dense consciousness on you....in my arrogant opinion.

Why this need to have something watch over us. Because ...None of us were parented appropriately, none of us. Some were parented more appropriately than others, yes. Some were parented more inappropriately than others. Some of us were parented in completely inappropriate ways, and some were not parented at all.

But basically none of us were parented to be fully functional spiritually inhabited beings. Because our parents weren't.This is not to say we all had bad parents. But most of our parents raised us to be beings of only a 3d, physical world.

But it doesn't stop there...Going a step back most us were not even conceived optimally. If some among us were, it was by accident and not intent. The Original bloodlines or races knew that conception was not something was supposed to be random or accidental, it was an circumstance that was conducted under optimal conditions, mental, physically, alchemically, spiritually. I've posted on this before so I won't go into graphic detail about it but , there are optimal conditions for conception that result in a being infused from the get go to be inclined to be more spiritually expressive than physically and consciously repetitive.

The Vatican by the way sullied that knowledge and made it evil. I very much doubt that was accidental.

Now I was discussing this one day with a woman I was talking too and she said RIGHT AFTER I brought this concept (that was previously unbeknownst to her), she told me she thought she was conceived in optimal conditions. Okay one, the reason she was seeing me in the first place is both of her parents had really bad sexual issues, so I'm thinking based only on that she wasn't conceived optimally.... but it sounded good to her so she latched on to it and that becomes her reality. Now she has no reason to clear out what her parent's peculiar sexual ideology had compromised her with. She has this comforting 'thought' ,not an actual clear reality. It doesn't matter what she thinks about herself, she was not optimally conceived or parented. If she was....she wouldn't be seeing me in the first place, I'd be seeking counsel from her.

Anyone care to notice how astrology plays into that. Optimal conception? Astrology came along after we stopped optimal conception practices. Or rather the consciousness began dicking around with the way we conceived. Astrology can be used as a means to correct this but instead its turned into a labeling device to reinforce that we were not conceived (and thus born) under optimal circumstances. Astrology btw is loaded with conditions.

I don't know of another spiritual person who can care take me that way that we expect non physical benevolent entities. They may be do it some of the time, part of the time, pop up now and again and do it sometimes. We tend to have a lot of expectations of non physical entities that we put in our relationships. Watch out for me. And to a certain extent we do look out for the best interests of those we associate with but we can't be 24 hour care takers, fixers, problem solvers., guides, dispensers of wisdom, truth, and clarity.

We want something from them that we feel that we lack, but we don't lack it, our conditions have made us unable to know we are experiencing them.

There is always this expectation out there that something should keep you safe, keep you comfortable, to provide to you what you feel you lack--wisdom, direction, guidance--we are not lacking those things, consciousness is preventing us from experiencing them EVEN AS THEY ARE HAPPENING, demonstrating, and expressing.

This 'keep me safe' paradigm is very destructive. It doesn't allow people to experience. It's not YOU the spirit that needs to be kept safe, its the consciousness, the ego.

When I teach riding lessons I see the ego at work. The person, the spirit, wants to have the experience of a spirited animal but the ego is like "Oh my just look at this animal, I can't control it, I can't manipulate it, it could kill the vessel I dominate and then where would I be?! " The ego is very afraid.

Horses don't have the same sort of consciousness we have. You can sit on a horse and cry and have a fit of anger, and call it names, and insult it and it simply passes right through, the horse does not care one minute that you are angry and crying. It doesn't feed the ego. It doesn't even notice it. Whatever. Horses are very good with the 'whatever'.

I don't see that so much in kids unless the parents have really compromised them. They just have the experience.

But I see that A LOT in working with horses. People want to choose a horse that keeps them safe and they don't exist. Just because the horse was responsive and didn't do anything to spook them they think they horse is safe, a baby sitter, and consistently want to ride that horse...until eventually the horse does something to spook them and thats it for the horse. Horses only respond and or react to what we put out there for them to follow instructions on. If you pull back on your reins, keep your hands low, bringing elbows behind the waist, and keep pulling ..the horse stops. If you get mad or scared and scream for it to stop it won't stop. It doesn't care, its expecting an appropriate response to what it is doing.

If you pull once and the horse doesn't respond, keep pulling. If you stop pulling before you get the desired response you won't get the desired response.

If you fling your hands up to your chest, and yank once the horse ignores you, it has no idea what you are saying to it. It may stop because its confused. Or it may run away because its confused. Now you've given your power away. All your choices gone because....you were depending on something else to make them for you instead of doing what you KNOW to do. How many people have watched tv for a fifty years, and KNOW that you stop a horse by saying whoa, and pulling on the reins.

You wouldn't believe how much of that simple knowingness flies out the window under compromised conditions.

Now...this is where the external guidance part fails. It doesn't' matter that I am a completely benevolent well intentioned entity in the riding arena, and I tell a student to pull on the left rein, pull on the left rein, pull on the left rein. I can repeat it five thousand times but they are in compromised mode and won't listen to a word of wisdom that will correct what is going wrong. In actuality the only going wrong is that they won't pull on the left rein. So it does no good for me to be a benevolent well intentioned physical being. I doubt being non physical would fix that much.

Spirit often places that the consciousness percieves is unsafe. So we don't go there, that place we need to go, where true wisdom, true guidance, true anything exists. I can only say that I wasted a lot of time ignoring facets of myself seeking out the wisdom, and guidance of other beings perceiving they were some how greater than my own.

[wynderer]

----------------------------------

[Chester]

Apologies up front for the monster post... I hope the readers will hang with it.

Some who may have followed my story... which is my style of posting - to share my experiences, my outer world journey and to share my inner reflections based on these experiences... and you may recall the troubles my son, Reid, found himself caught up in and which is ongoing.

Now that I have had some time between since these troubles came to my attention (Friday morning, July 20th) I would like to share some more about this.

Amzer Zo, sometime in late June or early July, began to post about the conspiratorial (and thus some may reject) possibility that a few decades or so back some of those who have been guiding the western world’s popular music industry may have met with some of the owners of the emerging private prison industry and made a deal such that the music industry would intentionally steer the general public into a direction which would result in an increase in crimes which then would allow the criminal justice system the ability to incarcerate a significantly larger percentage of the western world population and thus create additional, vast profits for the owners of these private prisons.

My son, Reid, is a perfect example of someone who, for whatever reasons within himself, got caught up in that fly trap and is dealing with his new reality inside the Dallas County jail at this very moment.

When he was three years old I would ask him this question. “Where is God?” He would answer, “Everywhere...” stretching his arms out so wide and with the most beautiful, innocent and optimistic delivery. I would then ask him, “What does God listen to?” And he would answer, “He listens to your heart” as he would point to his physical heart.

Not part of this story, but when my sons were still young, Reid being only 7, 8 and 9 years old, I went through a true “War of the Roses” style episode with my first wife. I was very, very ill. And yet I was awarded full custody of my sons at the end of that segment of the ordeal. That can only happen for a man in this current world when the woman has sunk so much further as happened in our case. My lawyer told me that for the court system in Curacao to make such a decision is less than one in a million, and I was truly, very ill when the process of review began – being totally honest.

Why I mention those facts is that my son, Reid, loved (and that love has never changed) his mother deeply and was very attached to her. He has carried this wound ever since. When I met him at jail a few weeks ago I asked him, “Reid... what is it within you that has you so tormented?” He replied, “Dad, I really believe I have never gotten over that Mom chose drugs and the streets over us (meaning him and his two brothers).”

I had always expressed my opinion that she was sick and that one day she would chose to come back to our world and so please, understand she really had no choice and see how through understanding you might not feel judgment and thus not even have to deal with the “forgiveness game” as I saw it.

But we all have the right to our feelings and thoughts and I honored what he told me and I once again expressed my view that she was consumed by something more powerful than herself and added my newest understandings about these non physical entities that were likely involved. But one thing I have come to know about Reid is that he only trusts himself, his own opinions and he will hopefully find his way to move through his issue there and emerge out the other side and be the better for it.

Anyways, after the divorce I was given David Icke’s, the Biggest Secret, and my world immediately went upside down. Within one year I had a library of over 300 books, all of which I had ordered from the same online bookstore David Icke sold his works through – this was back in 2002 and 2003. I read everything you can imagine. I ordered books I didn’t read until several years later. One was Eve Lorgen’s Love Bite. I tried to read it, but I was so much into the pain of having lost my true love, my son’s mother, that it was too hard to read much of her book in those early days. I just couldn’t handle it.

Why I mentioned my library, which began to include books on all the spiritual traditions, books by Ken Wilber. At least a dozen or so books by Krishnamurti just to name a few, was because at age 11 or so, Reid began to read from books in my library. We began to explore Buddhism and The Tao. he read some of Peter Moon’s works (I had them all, beginning with his first, The Montauk Project, Experiments in Time). All my sons read all of David Icke’s books along the way. But Reid would be the most proactive in discussing his views and I was so, so happy that my sons had such open minds and such high levels of interest.

I gave each of them their own laptop and free and full access to the internet and they did all their own research. I consciously made myself stay as much out of their way as I could.

Then my oldest, Stephen, and soon after, Reid, discovered marijuana and alcohol. Stephen was 15 and Reid 13. Based on the reality that their mother and father (me) both had clear, serious issues with drugs and alcohol and that it was in all sides of our families from our parents to our grandparents, etc. I knew their future journey would encounter some rough spots and I knew I had to let them go “through” their experiences. And they still are, Stephen dealing with a DUI charge he received just before his 21st birthday and Reid’s situation which alcohol, marijuana and illegally obtained prescription drugs - xanax and hydrocodone were what he was on that July 11th night when he went on his gun toting spree (again, thankfully he never fired a shot).

Here is the last piece I need to introduce. My ex wife had chosen to become a street person on the island of Curacao in late 2002 (while the custody issue was still pending). She had been placed (by her mother through the Curacao court system) in a psychiatric facility in Curacao in early 2003 and escaped and the authorities threw up their hands. She was on crack and without saying the words, you can assume some of the things she would do to obtain the crack. She even lived under a tree for almost a year.

As fate would have it in the summer of 2005, a young girl named Natalee Holloway disappeared while vacationing on the next island over, Aruba. A few days later, policeman in Curacao saw my ex and thought it might have been Ms. Holloway. He picked her up and brought her in. My ex was able to convince them she was not Ms Holloway and they released her back onto the streets. A day later, someone with a brain higher up in the police department realized my ex could develop into the same monster Aruba was suddenly facing (a PR nightmare and terrible for their tourist industry) and so they went out and grabbed her and deported her back to the states where she had criminal charges waiting on her in Texas. Somehow she was able to obtain probation, stay out of jail for the next three years, pull herself out of that deep dark hole enough that she got a hair cutting license and turned her all but hopeless life around.

By this time we were living in Panama, she was in Texas and the boys were able to establish a chat and skype relationship with her.

In the summer of 2008 she came to panama and was able to visit with our sons for a week (I took care of her hotel and gave them spending money and they stayed with her at her hotel for the whole week). Sadly though, she still had serious resentments concerning me and still does to this day. Regardless, I stayed away from the temptation of placing our sons in the middle.

The next summer, the summer of 2009, my sons came to me and asked if they could move to Texas with their Mom. They loved me dearly but they had no life in Panama and they never got connected into the culture. I was remarried by then but was in a marriage dynamic where Cristina would spend a month with me in Panama and then return for a month to be with her daughter in Medellin, Colombia.

I was faced with being alone and it was very hard to let my sons go to Texas. I still had concerns about their Mom but because I was a product of a divorce and because I had the experience of wanting to be with my dad but was not allowed (until I created the solution by getting kicked out of school!) I honored their request, saved up the money and bought their tickets to Dallas (August of 2009).

Why all the background? Because I am hoping the reader can understand that it was my perspective that my sons would perhaps escape the traps of life in America. Especially Reid, the way beyond his years regarding what we call spirituality son. In fact, the oldest, Stephen, was also quite tuned in. Yet I also knew the risks based on their genetic inheritance in relation to drugs and alcohol.
Since my two oldest son’s real world troubles, I have gone through the second guessing about allowing them to go to Dallas. Their Mom hooked up with a new boyfriend just after they arrived and they all moved to a home to live together. the new boyfriend is a “gun guy” and owns guns and taught my sons all about guns. I don’t blame him for what Reid did in any way. The world is the world. I just deal with some regret as I am a “no gun in my life” person and my sons were never exposed to guns (even play guns as children).

But what started well before my sons left Panama was their love for the rapper style music and specifically the gangster style lyrics. I never restricted what they wanted to listen to. In addition and because the two oldest had been kicked out of their last two schools (marijuana) I had no options but to home school them in Panama. We lived in a 33 story building in the center of town on the 33rd floor. An incredible view but a prison for my sons. They joined the World of Warcraft site and spent half their time consumed in computer games. they made no effort to make any friends and so you can imagine my sadness at their situation, so their desire to move to Dallas, live in a home that had a yard and neighbors, go to the local school where they could meet folks and make friends, I just could not deny their request even though I also knew what they would be up against in going to the big, bad city.

OK, the background has been laid for the points I wanted to make... the reason for this post. Again, apologies for the long, long story but I believe it is important the reader of this post have this background so as to understand the rest of what I am about to post.

It could be viewed that Reid is a victim of several things. One of them is to blame the possibility that what Amzer Zo suggested (I believe to recall that Zo obtained his information from Henry Makow’s site) is responsible for Reid’s current issue. I could blame the genetic inheritance which places the odds on his having issues with drugs and alcohol much higher than for others (and this is clearly statistically supported). I could blame my parenting approach as I treated my sons almost like we were simply 4 brothers, me just being the oldest and that I allowed my sons all but total free reign to do as they please, pursue what they please, etc. I only had one rule, we all always be truthful and honest with each other. There were times my sons were afraid to be but they always ended up telling me everything, most importantly their views and their why’s behind their views and thus were able to explain their actions with little to no fear other than what their own egos caused them.

I sense I just tried to justify how I chose to parent my sons and that clearly reveals I am still dealing with some regrets there.

I never supported the view that Reid is a victim of his mother’s choices and proactively always spoke to him from the view she was simply up against some serious issues and as I learned more I began to introduce the possibility she has been dealing with powerful, non-physical entities.

Still, to keep from straying too far from my point, I have stayed away from the temptation to view my son’s situation from the perspective that he is in any way a victim. I also equally never participated in conversations with Reid such that the victim possibility held any merit. Did we explore the possibilities that outside influences could have played some role? Absolutely. But I never left the conversation without stating my opinion (understand... only my opinion) that Reid is ultimately responsible for his life’s circumstances when it is clear his thoughts and deeds played a role in the creation of his circumstances. He has remained open to that sort of view and based on the two visits I had with him at his jail on July 26th and August 2nd, I could see not only was he sobering up physically, but he was facing his issues head on and was accepting his role in the creation of his current dilemma.

I will admit that what happened with Reid was in the top three most difficult experiences in my life. Those have been the zero choice decision I had to make and enact when I divorced my sons’ mother, the suicide (or suiciding) of my father when I was 21 and Reid’s gun toting terror spree. Note, these three are above my own suicide attempts 8 moths back and the three month total despair depression I only came out of on April 26th (the day I found this thread).

I had not yet been able to write Reid a letter until two days ago. Because I am in Costa Rica, I decided it was best to write it and e-mail it to my sister so she could mail it to Reid as that is the only way he can receive a physical letter and I wanted this to be something he could keep and read again if he wanted whenever he wanted.

Here is what I wrote to Reid (only editing out names of a few folks assisting with his situation).


Dear Reid,

I love you so much. I believe I understand what you have gone through. I don’t judge you as bad at all in any way whatsoever. In fact, I already see the day where we laugh about that crazy night of July 11th.

One thing is for sure, you got balls bro! Amazing balls and far bigger than I ever had, especially at your age.

Anyways, you are always in the center of my heart. Again, I love you so, so much.

Please, make sure that when you find out you have been indicted, that you call xxxxx’s office (collect... I spoke with yyyyy and she knows you will call) as soon as possible so that he can begin the conversation process with the prosecuting attorney and the judge.

Through that process, xxxxx will obtain solution.

In addition, please immediately write to Marli [my sister] just in case you cannot reach xxxxx so she can contact me and I will contact xxxxx asap. As a last resort, you can tell your Mom the next time she visits so she would hopefully tell Stephen [Reid’s older brother, my oldest son] and I am in touch with Stephen all the time... he chats me on Skype when at Mom’s house.

Anyway, once you are out, you will have the world once again in the palm of your hand. In fact and in truth, you already do.

I am and always will be, your loving Dad.

I am also very proud of you. Why? Because you took on some of the most powerful demons and did NOT pull the trigger. And then you handled it all completely and responsibly. Few would have done so. I am so, so proud of you.

And I am always here for you.

Love, Dad

This post is finally about to end, but I have to add what my sister, Marli, wrote back to me.

Dear Ches,
Letter is printed and ready to mail. Great letter you are a wonderful dad.
Love ya

and to the readers of this post, if you have hung in there to here, thank you.

justonefather

[9eagle9]

Sure, I can accept that as reasonable....but there are plain old non ET people who are not hell bent on domination and conquest. Not sure what you are saying in context to what I wrote.

If we were all hell bent on blood, murder, sacrifice, and parasitical intrusion we'd be happy campers right now and not in need or desire of external influence. That is the conditions of the joint right now---SEEMINGLY. You can accept those seeming conditions, or...you can transcend them.

I can completely see how a race of ET's would avoid a planet that they perceived to be of such density. I , personally, cannot depend on them for my personal development. I try to avoid people like that but I work with the public and in the sheer volume of compromised people is hard to avoid. They are more the rule than the exception.

I am not sure where we got the idea that they, off planet, benevolent ETs were obligated to help us. I am not saying they don't exist, I'm asking where did we get the idea that they are under some obligation to us. Maybe they are, and they are not fulfilling their obligation. There's a deep exploration there. In what way would they be obligated to us?

But the same with anything else....If you want to invite something in that is in alignment with you, one creates a space for it.

It's just energy, it works both ways.

Unfortunately we unconsciously create spaces for things that aren't exactly looking out for our best interests , nor are in alignment with us.

[wynderer]

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[Chester]

I want to believe there are! And in fact, I want to so, so badly that I won't believe there are unless I have a direct experience with one that is.

We all want to believe there are. We all like to believe that something is looking out for us . It' s a nice feeling. But WHY do we have that yearning to have something looking out for us, watching our back, looking out for our best interests. There's a lot of reasons why we so 'badly' want to have this experience.


For a person who is spiritually healthy and expressive that is a nice feeling.....SOMETIMES. It means someone is being in empathy with you. If it's constant, the entity doing the managing becomes annoying (or depressing depending on what sort of temperment you have). It then becomes a form of judgement. People who are always trying to care take me and wipe my butt are judging me. Or fix things for me, or arrange things. It becomes this cloying dense energy. One learns the difference between honesty and contrivance. One knows when they are given an honest compliment and when someone is sucking up to them to get brownie points. One is a nice thing, the other is just gross dense energy as they impose their gross dense consciousness on you....in my arrogant opinion.

Why this need to have something watch over us. Because ...None of us were parented appropriately, none of us. Some were parented more appropriately than others, yes. Some were parented more inappropriately than others. Some of us were parented in completely inappropriate ways, and some were not parented at all.

But basically none of us were parented to be fully functional spiritually inhabited beings. Because our parents weren't.This is not to say we all had bad parents. But most of our parents raised us to be beings of only a 3d, physical world.

But it doesn't stop there...Going a step back most us were not even conceived optimally. If some among us were, it was by accident and not intent. The Original bloodlines or races knew that conception was not something was supposed to be random or accidental, it was an circumstance that was conducted under optimal conditions, mental, physically, alchemically, spiritually. I've posted on this before so I won't go into graphic detail about it but , there are optimal conditions for conception that result in a being infused from the get go to be inclined to be more spiritually expressive than physically and consciously repetitive.

The Vatican by the way sullied that knowledge and made it evil. I very much doubt that was accidental.

Now I was discussing this one day with a woman I was talking too and she said RIGHT AFTER I brought this concept (that was previously unbeknownst to her), she told me she thought she was conceived in optimal conditions. Okay one, the reason she was seeing me in the first place is both of her parents had really bad sexual issues, so I'm thinking based only on that she wasn't conceived optimally.... but it sounded good to her so she latched on to it and that becomes her reality. Now she has no reason to clear out what her parent's peculiar sexual ideology had compromised her with. She has this comforting 'thought' ,not an actual clear reality. It doesn't matter what she thinks about herself, she was not optimally conceived or parented. If she was....she wouldn't be seeing me in the first place, I'd be seeking counsel from her.

Anyone care to notice how astrology plays into that. Optimal conception? Astrology came along after we stopped optimal conception practices. Or rather the consciousness began dicking around with the way we conceived. Astrology can be used as a means to correct this but instead its turned into a labeling device to reinforce that we were not conceived (and thus born) under optimal circumstances. Astrology btw is loaded with conditions.

I don't know of another spiritual person who can care take me that way that we expect non physical benevolent entities. They may be do it some of the time, part of the time, pop up now and again and do it sometimes. We tend to have a lot of expectations of non physical entities that we put in our relationships. Watch out for me. And to a certain extent we do look out for the best interests of those we associate with but we can't be 24 hour care takers, fixers, problem solvers., guides, dispensers of wisdom, truth, and clarity.

We want something from them that we feel that we lack, but we don't lack it, our conditions have made us unable to know we are experiencing them.

There is always this expectation out there that something should keep you safe, keep you comfortable, to provide to you what you feel you lack--wisdom, direction, guidance--we are not lacking those things, consciousness is preventing us from experiencing them EVEN AS THEY ARE HAPPENING, demonstrating, and expressing.

This 'keep me safe' paradigm is very destructive. It doesn't allow people to experience. It's not YOU the spirit that needs to be kept safe, its the consciousness, the ego.

When I teach riding lessons I see the ego at work. The person, the spirit, wants to have the experience of a spirited animal but the ego is like "Oh my just look at this animal, I can't control it, I can't manipulate it, it could kill the vessel I dominate and then where would I be?! " The ego is very afraid.

Horses don't have the same sort of consciousness we have. You can sit on a horse and cry and have a fit of anger, and call it names, and insult it and it simply passes right through, the horse does not care one minute that you are angry and crying. It doesn't feed the ego. It doesn't even notice it. Whatever. Horses are very good with the 'whatever'.

I don't see that so much in kids unless the parents have really compromised them. They just have the experience.

But I see that A LOT in working with horses. People want to choose a horse that keeps them safe and they don't exist. Just because the horse was responsive and didn't do anything to spook them they think they horse is safe, a baby sitter, and consistently want to ride that horse...until eventually the horse does something to spook them and thats it for the horse. Horses only respond and or react to what we put out there for them to follow instructions on. If you pull back on your reins, keep your hands low, bringing elbows behind the waist, and keep pulling ..the horse stops. If you get mad or scared and scream for it to stop it won't stop. It doesn't care, its expecting an appropriate response to what it is doing.

If you pull once and the horse doesn't respond, keep pulling. If you stop pulling before you get the desired response you won't get the desired response.

If you fling your hands up to your chest, and yank once the horse ignores you, it has no idea what you are saying to it. It may stop because its confused. Or it may run away because its confused. Now you've given your power away. All your choices gone because....you were depending on something else to make them for you instead of doing what you KNOW to do. How many people have watched tv for a fifty years, and KNOW that you stop a horse by saying whoa, and pulling on the reins.

You wouldn't believe how much of that simple knowingness flies out the window under compromised conditions.

Now...this is where the external guidance part fails. It doesn't' matter that I am a completely benevolent well intentioned entity in the riding arena, and I tell a student to pull on the left rein, pull on the left rein, pull on the left rein. I can repeat it five thousand times but they are in compromised mode and won't listen to a word of wisdom that will correct what is going wrong. In actuality the only going wrong is that they won't pull on the left rein. So it does no good for me to be a benevolent well intentioned physical being. I doubt being non physical would fix that much.

Spirit often places that the consciousness percieves is unsafe. So we don't go there, that place we need to go, where true wisdom, true guidance, true anything exists. I can only say that I wasted a lot of time ignoring facets of myself seeking out the wisdom, and guidance of other beings perceiving they were some how greater than my own.

Ahhh 9eagle9, I somehow conveyed something that I thought was no longer true, yet because this is what struck you as part of my current position in relation to the possibility there be “good ETS” may suggest a part of me is still hoping for a savior.

Yet, in truth, I am not hoping for benevolent ETs to exist for any other reason than to have the opportunity to interact with them! I also would love that there be benevolent ETs because if there truly are and we, humanity, became aware of this humanity wide, we would likely come to grips with the fact that there may be creatures in creation that have surpassed our current technology which I believe would be good for our ego to know and that they aren't all bad.

So if there was any hint in my post that I hope there are good ETs out there such that they might “save us” or “save me” I am a bit WoW about that. If your comeback was instead stimulated by your perception that some amongst this community may be hoping for ETs to come save us, then I understand why you posted as you did.

But I hope I have clarified why I would like to know by direct experience positive ETs, whether they are in physical form or not.

In fact, I have a friend who has direct contacts with “alphabet agencies” and I have told him many times I would volunteer to go anywhere the “secret government” would ever want to send me with regards to ETs, space travel, inter-dimensional travel, time travel, etc.

Sadly my application has yet to be accepted and I assume it may have to do with the dozen or so times I landed in a psychiatric facility (the most recent being the 8 days I spent in St. Josephs in the Ciudad de Panama, Panama last January). hahahaha, guess I will have to get into space all on my own (some think I am already there)!

justonedreamer

[9eagle9]

No...... we are moving into the source causes of how archons, abductions, and rituals now. There's only so long you can talk about the problem (which can manifest in seemingly endless ways) , without going to the causes and then the solutions. Archonic activity, abduction, and ritual are all similar in the source cause of how they begin occurring. They are all violation and compromise and there's a root cause to it.




i'm not seeing much about archons & abductions & the rituals in recent posts -- just saying...

my bad, too, as i entered the discussion re yes or no/benevolent ETs

[Chester]

all psychological & biological considerations aside: as the poet said, 'It's a hell of a big universe out there,' & it would seem the odds are pretty good that there are ETs who are not bent on domination & conquest --

tho they don't tend to be drawn to planets/star systems where ritual blood sacrifices & such go on, as here on planet Earth



actually your point is just about identical to Richard Dolan's consideration and I doubt there's anyone out there better qualified to make that point. Thanks wynderer!

[Chester]

Sure, I can accept that as reasonable....but there are plain old non ET people who are not hell bent on domination and conquest. Not sure what you are saying in context to what I wrote.

If we were all hell bent on blood, murder, sacrifice, and parasitical intrusion we'd be happy campers right now and not in need or desire of external influence. That is the conditions of the joint right now---SEEMINGLY. You can accept those seeming conditions, or...you can transcend them.

I can completely see how a race of ET's would avoid a planet that they perceived to be of such density. I , personally, cannot depend on them for my personal development. I try to avoid people like that but I work with the public and in the sheer volume of compromised people is hard to avoid. They are more the rule than the exception.

I am not sure where we got the idea that they, off planet, benevolent ETs were obligated to help us. I am not saying they don't exist, I'm asking where did we get the idea that they are under some obligation to us. Maybe they are, and they are not fulfilling their obligation. There's a deep exploration there. In what way would they be obligated to us?

But the same with anything else....If you want to invite something in that is in alignment with you, one creates a space for it.

It's just energy, it works both ways.

Unfortunately we unconsciously create spaces for things that aren't exactly looking out for our best interests , nor are in alignment with us.

If I were a non earth born human and I knew my son, Reid (as I do), I would probably want to help him if I could. That might mean leaving him completely alone to help himself. That goes for my other sons, my step daughter, my wife, my sister and then the list goes to the next level of loved ones, close friends and then to the next level, anyone else that might reach out for some sort of help. That's just me. In fact, if I died today and were able to retain the memory of what I think I know now, I would probably (if I could) gladly come back... but again, that's just me.

And remember (thus my self imposed warning to the reader), I have been dealing with a messiah complex which may very well be something implanted by nefarious ETs including but not limited to a Horus-Ra entity.

justone

[Chester]

i'm not seeing much about archons & abductions & the rituals in recent posts -- just saying...

my bad, too, as i entered the discussion re yes or no/benevolent ETs

I have not read a thing save for one short comment that does not directly related to this topic in the last few pages. If we are limited to the area from which we can explore ourselves (and thus perhaps stumble upon solution) then what is the point of the thread in the first place?

If Houman says this thread is meant only as a dumping ground for all the horrors we are experiencing then I will accept that and move on. But if he did that, he would also have to delete all the posts he made that gave recommendations of videos (which explored solution), of physical therapeutic approaches to removing parasites from the body (Dr. Schulze cleanse programs), all the posts of beautiful photos and posts of inspirational videos.

I don't understand why we must only share about the horror.

justoneconfused

[wynderer]

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[Chester]

if i understand you correctly, you are saying that the root causes are found in the mind /aka psychology of Humans -- the Humanist p.o.v., extended to interactions w/ETs/archons --i.e., Humans & their minds as the source & center of creation -- indeed, the very pinnacle

here's a quote from my post at the top of this page about which i'd hoped you'd comment:

'there is another experience i had that i'd thought i'd never share w/anyone other than w/the few friends i have already -- it ties in w/Dana writing about the technology used against her, & how all the psychic self-defense tools do not work against that technology [a point i have made before on this thread]'





No...... we are moving into the source causes of how archons, abductions, and rituals now. There's only so long you can talk about the problem (which can manifest in seemingly endless ways) , without going to the causes and then the solutions. Archonic activity, abduction, and ritual are all similar in the source cause of how they begin occurring. They are all violation and compromise and there's a root cause to it.




i'm not seeing much about archons & abductions & the rituals in recent posts -- just saying...

my bad, too, as i entered the discussion re yes or no/benevolent ETs

I think you may start to be able to see how you are creating your own blockage. The points 9eagle9 shared in her great post 1760 was not presented in any way to be some universal, all encompassing examination of our problem. She only explored one aspect of that and from her point of view.

I mean this from my heart, wynderer... try opening up and not seeing each of our posts as attacks on your current paradigm. Why not consider the information as complimentary to what you currently believe and consider exploring the new possibilities of a new paradigm by experimenting with incorporating the new information into your world view.

Well, anyways, that has been what has been effectively working for me. I keep exploring viewpoints and it has been tremendously freeing, empowering and produces actual, tangible, measurable improvements in every part of my experience.

Written from true, heartfelt love

justoneman

EDIT - Just to mention, John Lamb, who is considered an expert by many concerning The Archons states very clearly the issue of the Archons is an attack upon the human mind. If his assertion has any truth to it, an individual human can only assist themselves in dealing with Archontic influences by better knowing how the mind works, so from that perspective, discussions involving this component of the entire human complex is likely essential if we are ever to find a collective solution.

I doubt my above statement could be disagreed with by anyone who truly seeks solution. I am so, so, so motivated to explore solution but can only speak for myself in this regard.

Additional EDIT: In fact, I discovered (thanks to Amzer Zo's recommendation I revisit the Steve Richard's interview) that "consciousness" as Steve Richards represents it is quite precisely the same thing that 9eagle9 described in her post #1760. I respect Amzer Zo and so I respect his recommendation and despite my initial egositic response I came back with (when I read his re-recommendation), I quickly reconsidered and am I sure glad I did!

Let's obtain solution!! For those who come after us if not for ourselves now. Bill thinks it will take generations... I make my bet on "sooner."

[wynderer]

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[9eagle9]

BANG. You hit it right on the head. And this is the part that lights me up; there are many facets to this to be explored, but we have to keep our emotions out of it. Or emotional attachment to certain ideas.

The thing is ...people are reaching out to YOU for help, you aren't imposing it on them. You get to that point you have to make a determination. Does this person really want help or do they just want an audience to play in their mud pies.

Like I said earlier when we create a space where we are reflecting that we really want help perhaps something will happen. If we stay in reactive victim mode we are not creating that space. If we keep creating a space to be reactive victimsare we going to be shocked that only abusers show up?

Earth may very well be a big universal melting pot; like America was supposed to be a big melting pot. We seen the conflicts that arose (and still rise) here in America because we were the convergence point of many races and many cultures. What if the same applies to many ET races some good, some bad, some....INDIFFERENT.

You would help your child because he is your creation, you brought him to life. There is a biological connection there, an emotional connection. HOW we help them is due to the nature of their problem. Sometimes doing nothing for a person means you are not enabling them. AA and NA drug addiction programs are very expressive of this. Often times people's help is enabling. Sometimes not saying anything is enabling. That's when you learn to pick your battles.

This ties right into the "ET's are responsible for our existence for our creation." That could be true. I don't think they are responsible for every person's genetic background. If ET's are responsible and there's a lot of different species out there that means we'd all be different in inclination and that means a lot of conflict will arise from that.

Some people claim to be starseed or of ET origins, okay they perceive their forebears, their creators are obligated to them....for something. I'm not going to argue it but.....I've never gotten an authentic discussion from people making such claims. Or an authentic expression of this. Because I don't have an emotional attachment to those sorts of ideas I explore all sorts of questions that people get angry about. Maybe some species of ET were like Johnny Appleseed, just planting roots and then wandering off never to return to see how the trees were growing. Why? They figured their purpose was done there or maybe they didn't care.

Some human men are like that...lol. Some forms of animals drop their kids and run--mostly those of REPTILIAN genesis (he he) . Lay some eggs and take off. Cold blooded animals. Warm blooded animals don't do this as much, but I think there are a few --they aren't coming to mind if they are.


Are the scientists that splice animal genetics in their lab emotionally caring toward their creations or do those creations get dumped or forgotten about without any thought as to their well being at all. We have certain breeds of animals that we have compromised introducing respiratory problems and hip dysplasia. Do we stop breeding bulldogs and german shepherds? No.....do we go back and correct what we did. No. Do we help those animals that have these symptoms or do we put them down....eventually. It depends, just because we created something doesn't necessarily mean we can fix it if some of my cooking is any meter of any of this.


I have not yet had an honest answer exactly what these genetic off planet ancestors should be offering to people. Maybe they figured they added their genetics and that sufices. For the people who make these claims I'm not believing or dismissing them, I simply don't see any expression of having those origins. "I come from a highly advance race of ET's that developed the means of multi dimensional travels; they have translucent skin, light shines out of their ears and they have prehensile lips. ."

Okay if this is genetic how come you don't look like that or are able to travel multi dimensionally. Why don't you at least have prehensile lips?

This is genetics, afterall, whatever they provided to you should be expressing in you genetically speaking there should be SOME evidence of what one is saying. I come from a specific race or bloodline on both sides of my family. That is expressed through me mentally, physically etc. I know what they know, I do what they did, and I look like historical accounts of my forebears and it sure explains a lot about what I was already expressing. OTHER people noticed these expressions before I even knew what it all meant or even knew this bloodline existed. Their racial pecularities are expressed through me on a level that has nothing to do with what I think. I actually resisted the notion for a long time because...it just sounded unrealistic until....I realized its the reality of the expression not what my conscious mind is thinking about it.

Messiah complex does mean you want to save everyone. Messiah complex can also mean that you are looking for someone to save you . Forwards and backwards.




Sure, I can accept that as reasonable....but there are plain old non ET people who are not hell bent on domination and conquest. Not sure what you are saying in context to what I wrote.

If we were all hell bent on blood, murder, sacrifice, and parasitical intrusion we'd be happy campers right now and not in need or desire of external influence. That is the conditions of the joint right now---SEEMINGLY. You can accept those seeming conditions, or...you can transcend them.

I can completely see how a race of ET's would avoid a planet that they perceived to be of such density. I , personally, cannot depend on them for my personal development. I try to avoid people like that but I work with the public and in the sheer volume of compromised people is hard to avoid. They are more the rule than the exception.

I am not sure where we got the idea that they, off planet, benevolent ETs were obligated to help us. I am not saying they don't exist, I'm asking where did we get the idea that they are under some obligation to us. Maybe they are, and they are not fulfilling their obligation. There's a deep exploration there. In what way would they be obligated to us?

But the same with anything else....If you want to invite something in that is in alignment with you, one creates a space for it.

It's just energy, it works both ways.

Unfortunately we unconsciously create spaces for things that aren't exactly looking out for our best interests , nor are in alignment with us.

If I were a non earth born human and I knew my son, Reid (as I do), I would probably want to help him if I could. That might mean leaving him completely alone to help himself. That goes for my other sons, my step daughter, my wife, my sister and then the list goes to the next level of loved ones, close friends and then to the next level, anyone else that might reach out for some sort of help. That's just me. In fact, if I died today and were able to retain the memory of what I think I know now, I would probably (if I could) gladly come back... but again, that's just me.

And remember, I have been dealing with a messiah complex which may very well be something implanted by nefarious ETs including but not limited to a Horus-Ra entity.

justone

[9eagle9]

If they were so amazing I can't figure out why they can't figure out how to heal psychic intrusion. Maybe they weren't as good as you'd like to remember them to be, and there are actually some people out there better at it than they are .

What technology? Once one understands the nature of the technology one can understand how to thwart it. Once I understood the TV was rotting my processes I turned it off.

That sounds flippant and facetious but I'm serious. You said these were people of mind, body and spirit experts not that they were technologically savvy. Maybe that's where they failed at.


Justoneman , it may be new paradigms to you, but to me, not so new -- in the '80s, when practicing massage, i was fortunate to be a part of an amazing group of women involved in healing arts, of the body & of the mind, in the Annapolis/DC area -- i learned, experienced, & used in my practice most of the psychological/astral healing modalities posted about [often at great length] on this thread -- Steve Richard's method is not so new...

thses techniques do not work on the new technology they use in abductions -- time to look for new solutions, i'd say



if i understand you correctly, you are saying that the root causes are found in the mind /aka psychology of Humans -- the Humanist p.o.v., extended to interactions w/ETs/archons --i.e., Humans & their minds as the source & center of creation -- indeed, the very pinnacle

here's a quote from my post at the top of this page about which i'd hoped you'd comment:

'there is another experience i had that i'd thought i'd never share w/anyone other than w/the few friends i have already -- it ties in w/Dana writing about the technology used against her, & how all the psychic self-defense tools do not work against that technology [a point i have made before on this thread]'





No...... we are moving into the source causes of how archons, abductions, and rituals now. There's only so long you can talk about the problem (which can manifest in seemingly endless ways) , without going to the causes and then the solutions. Archonic activity, abduction, and ritual are all similar in the source cause of how they begin occurring. They are all violation and compromise and there's a root cause to it.




i'm not seeing much about archons & abductions & the rituals in recent posts -- just saying...

my bad, too, as i entered the discussion re yes or no/benevolent ETs

I think you may start to be able to see how you are creating your own blockage. The points 9eagle9 shared in her great post 1760 was not presented in any way to be some universal, all encompassing examination of our problem. She only explored one aspect of that and from her point of view.

I mean this from my heart, wynderer... try opening up and not seeing each of our posts as attacks on your current paradigm. Why not consider the information as complimentary to what you currently believe and consider exploring the new possibilities of a new paradigm by experimenting with incorporating the new information into your world view.

Well, anyways, that has been what has been effectively working for me. I keep exploring viewpoints and it has been tremendously freeing, empowering and produces actual, tangible, measurable improvements in every part of my experience.

Written from true, heartfelt love

justoneman

EDIT - Just to mention, John Lamb, who is considered an expert by many concerning The Archons states very clearly the issue of the Archons is an attack upon the human mind. If his assertion has any truth to it, an individual human can only assist themselves in dealing with Archontic influences by better knowing how the mind works, so from that perspective, discussions involving this component of the entire human complex is likely essential if we are ever to find a collective solution.

I doubt my above statement could be disagreed with by anyone who truly seeks solution. I am so, so, so motivated to explore solution but can only speak for myself in this regard.

Additional EDIT: In fact, I discovered (thanks to Amzer Zo's recommendation I revisit the Steve Richard's interview) that "consciousness" as Steve Richards represents it is quite precisely the same thing that 9eagle9 described in her post #1760. I respect Amzer Zo and so I respect his recommendation and despite my initial egositic response I made, I quickly reconsidered and am I sure glad I did!

Let's obtain solution!! For those who come after us if not for ourselves now. Bill thinks it will take generations... I make my bet on "sooner."

[Chester]

Justoneman , it may be new paradigms to you, but to me, not so new -- in the '80s, when practicing massage, i was fortunate to be a part of an amazing group of women involved in healing arts, of the body & of the mind, in the Annapolis/DC area -- i learned, experienced, & used in my practice most of the psychological/astral healing modalities posted about [often at great length] on this thread -- Steve Richard's method is not so new...

thses techniques do not work on the new technology they use in abductions -- time to look for new solutions, i'd say



And here is the rub - your statement is stated as universally true as if you are the only authority on the matter. Anyone who might be seeking help for their own abduction problem that reads your statement could very well sink into despair. Look at what DoT experienced from a similar post a few days ago? I cannot understand why you would want to put these types of statements out there. It is truly mind blowing and frankly, in my view, unacceptable.

Perhaps Bill is right... generations.

So, to be direct, I do not believe you nor anyone else comes from the proper place to make such a statement.

Apologize in being direct, but your statement left me no choice.

justoneman

[Chester]

BANG. You hit it right on the head. And this is the part that lights me up; there are many facets to this to be explored, but we have to keep our emotions out of it. Or emotional attachment to certain ideas.

The thing is ...people are reaching out to YOU for help, you aren't imposing it on them. You get to that point you have to make a determination. Does this person really want help or do they just want an audience to play in their mud pies.

Like I said earlier when we create a space where we are reflecting that we really want help perhaps something will happen. If we stay in reactive victim mode we are not creating that space. If we keep creating a space to be reactive victimsare we going to be shocked that only abusers show up?

Earth may very well be a big universal melting pot; like America was supposed to be a big melting pot. We seen the conflicts that arose (and still rise) here in America because we were the convergence point of many races and many cultures. What if the same applies to many ET races some good, some bad, some....INDIFFERENT.

You would help your child because he is your creation, you brought him to life. There is a biological connection there, an emotional connection. HOW we help them is due to the nature of their problem. Sometimes doing nothing for a person means you are not enabling them. AA and NA drug addiction programs are very expressive of this. Often times people's help is enabling. Sometimes not saying anything is enabling. That's when you learn to pick your battles.

This ties right into the "ET's are responsible for our existence for our creation." That could be true. I don't think they are responsible for every person's genetic background. If ET's are responsible and there's a lot of different species out there that means we'd all be different in inclination and that means a lot of conflict will arise from that.

Some people claim to be starseed or of ET origins, okay they perceive their forebears, their creators are obligated to them....for something. I'm not going to argue it but.....I've never gotten an authentic discussion from people making such claims. Or an authentic expression of this. Because I don't have an emotional attachment to those sorts of ideas I explore all sorts of questions that people get angry about. Maybe some species of ET were like Johnny Appleseed, just planting roots and then wandering off never to return to see how the trees were growing. Why? They figured their purpose was done there or maybe they didn't care.

Some human men are like that...lol. Some forms of animals drop their kids and run--mostly those of REPTILIAN genesis (he he) . Lay some eggs and take off. Cold blooded animals. Warm blooded animals don't do this as much, but I think there are a few --they aren't coming to mind if they are.


Are the scientists that splice animal genetics in their lab emotionally caring toward their creations or do those creations get dumped or forgotten about without any thought as to their well being at all. We have certain breeds of animals that we have compromised introducing respiratory problems and hip dysplasia. Do we stop breeding bulldogs and german shepherds? No.....do we go back and correct what we did. No. Do we help those animals that have these symptoms or do we put them down....eventually. It depends, just because we created something doesn't necessarily mean we can fix it if some of my cooking is any meter of any of this.


I have not yet had an honest answer exactly what these genetic off planet ancestors should be offering to people. Maybe they figured they added their genetics and that sufices. For the people who make these claims I'm not believing or dismissing them, I simply don't see any expression of having those origins. "I come from a highly advance race of ET's that developed the means of multi dimensional travels; they have translucent skin, light shines out of their ears and they have prehensile lips. ."

Okay if this is genetic how come you don't look like that or are able to travel multi dimensionally. Why don't you at least have prehensile lips?

This is genetics, afterall, whatever they provided to you should be expressing in you genetically speaking there should be SOME evidence of what one is saying. I come from a specific race or bloodline on both sides of my family. That is expressed through me mentally, physically etc. I know what they know, I do what they did, and I look like historical accounts of my forebears and it sure explains a lot about what I was already expressing. OTHER people noticed these expressions before I even knew what it all meant or even knew this bloodline existed. Their racial pecularities are expressed through me on a level that has nothing to do with what I think. I actually resisted the notion for a long time because...it just sounded unrealistic until....I realized its the reality of the expression not what my conscious mind is thinking about it.

Messiah complex does mean you want to save everyone. Messiah complex can also mean that you are looking for someone to save you . Forwards and backwards.



Just for the record, I chose to mention the "messiah complex" as that was a component more so of my past and has been in resolution process ever since I discovered that one of the Horus-Ra entities (and perhaps others) attempt to implant that type of programming within me (I believe this occurred when i was 6 years old).

I described what i experienced in this thread -

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?44353-My-possible-abduction-experience

and note that a fellow poster in post #7 suggested this was indeed an abduction experience which for some folks gives me some greater degree of qualification to post on the matter.



I was able to discover this during my Drake era and then finding this thread last April 26th and believe I have gone "through" that component and all but dropped it such that it is essentially relegated to my past. We shall see.

In fact, the only reason I am responding to some of the other recent posts is not at all intended to "save" the one who stimulated my response post, but to give an alternative the view to someone who might read "there are no solutions to "their" current technology"... someone that may be seeking solutions for themselves some examples that solutions have been found, at least by me, justoneexample.

[9eagle9]

What people are saying Wyn, is that those things do not work for YOU.

For whatever reason.

You are not every body.


if i understand you correctly, you are saying that the root causes are found in the mind /aka psychology of Humans -- the Humanist p.o.v., extended to interactions w/ETs/archons --i.e., Humans & their minds as the source & center of creation -- indeed, the very pinnacle

here's a quote from my post at the top of this page about which i'd hoped you'd comment:

'there is another experience i had that i'd thought i'd never share w/anyone other than w/the few friends i have already -- it ties in w/Dana writing about the technology used against her, & how all the psychic self-defense tools do not work against that technology [a point i have made before on this thread]'





No...... we are moving into the source causes of how archons, abductions, and rituals now. There's only so long you can talk about the problem (which can manifest in seemingly endless ways) , without going to the causes and then the solutions. Archonic activity, abduction, and ritual are all similar in the source cause of how they begin occurring. They are all violation and compromise and there's a root cause to it.




i'm not seeing much about archons & abductions & the rituals in recent posts -- just saying...

my bad, too, as i entered the discussion re yes or no/benevolent ETs

[Daughter of Time]

Wyn,

Thank you for your story.

Do you know who the good guys are?

Did they tell you where they come from?

Did they inform you as to why you were targeted in the first place?

Did they give you any clues as to why they waited so long to show up to help you?

We know a lot about the bad guys, so if you have any information to share about the good guys, it would be welcome.

Thank You DoT, and this is (in my opinion) the very most important question to get answers about. I highly respect Truman Cash and his experience (as far as he has reported upon) is sans of any "good guys" though he recently established what he characterized as a "good relationship" with a Gray (I have seen some folks use "Grey" and have no clue which one is more correct).

Anyways, based on my experience which has been almost and only what seems to be "non-physical interventions" and though one particular "personality" I came to know always came across as quite wise and never lied to me nor ever caused me harm from my best perception and perspective, I am of the opinion as of now that there are likely no benevolent non physical, non human nor non earth born human beings that are interacting with us earth born human beings.

I want to believe there are! And in fact, I want to so, so badly that I won't believe there are unless I have a direct experience with one that is.

Even this one, isolated voice I have been able to communicate with, I am highly skeptical about because a.) it is just a voice and b.) how do I know this voice is not also one of the other voices which did lead me to harm myself?

So I am extremely skeptical there are any "good guys" at this point in time.

Having said all that, there are folks I highly respect who have recanted experiences that I interpret to suggest there are indeed good guys. In some cases, these folks I highly respect stated they believed whole heartedly these were good guys.

I hope one day to know for certain myself and I hope that what I know would be that there are. justoneman

As always, it is very difficult and nearly impossible for some to believe things which are outside their frame of reference.

I know I've posted this before: When Columbus first reached the new land with 3 ships and white men, the aboriginals could not see either the ships nor the white men, and these were physical! They could not see them because ships and white men were outside their frame of reference. The shaman saw them first because the shaman was operating from a higher level of consciousness and he taught the others to "see". I hope this is not seen as going off topic because I'm trying to make a point.

There are many who have never had encounters with dark forces, so they believe that dark forces do not exist but that they are merely a construct of a troubled mind. This is what psychiatrists, more or less, make their patients believe, and this is why psychiatrists never cure anyone. Again, not trying to go off topic...

If you have had experiences with only malevolent beings, then that's what you will believe. This much is logical.

Although my experiences with malevolent, non physical beings, far surpass the experiences with benevolent, non physical beings, I have had experiences with benevolent non physical beings too. The list of these benevolent non physical beings visiting me is short, but it does exist. On top of my list is Yeshua. And this is what he has said to me:

"THERE IS NO FORCE OUTSIDE YOU WHICH IS GREATER THAN YOU. NO MATTER HOW FRAGMENTED YOU FEEL, YOU ARE STILL WHOLE AT YOUR CORE. YOUR WEAKNESS IS AN ILLUSION CAUSED BY THOSE WHOSE AIM IS TO DESTROY YOU. AND IF YOU GIVE INTO THAT BELIEF, THEN YOU WILL BE VIRTUALLY, DESTROYED. THE ANSWERS ARE WITHIN YOU. YOU MUST FIND YOUR OWN SOLUTIONS AND REGAIN STRENGTH TO BECOME IMPENETRABLE TO THE PERPETRATORS. NOT ONLY MUST YOU BECOME IMPENETRABLE, BUT YOU MUST REGAIN YOUR FULL BELIEF IN YOURSELF SO THAT THE PERPETRATORS WILL NOT EVEN ATTEMPT TO HARM YOU. UNLESS YOU LEARN TO DO THIS, YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO RISE TO A HIGHER DENSITY. THEIR AGENDA IS TO PREVENT YOU FROM RISING TO A HIGHER DENSITY BECAUSE ONCE YOU ARE THERE, THEY WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO TOUCH YOU AGAIN. THIS CAN BE DONE, AND DO IT, YOU WILL."

For those of us who have always been targets and have sunk to the low vibrations of worry and fear, a word from these beings who operate from a higher density is very helpful and encouraging. I will have to remember those words whenever I feel lost or read discouraging thoughts. This is easier said than done, but done, it must be.

My wish for you Justone, is that some day soon you will experience the presence of a benevolent non-physical being. I'm not even remotely suggesting that you rely on them or ask them for help. I just wish this for you because it's such an elating experience and once you've had that experience, you will never forget it. You will still have to do your own work in freeing yourself, as we all do. But it is comforting to know that we are not alone when it comes to benevolent beings.

[Chester]

Thanks DoT for post # 1785. I am an optimist and I do believe I will one day have this experience. justoneman

[wynderer]

----------------------------------------------------

[wynderer]

--------------------------------------------------

[Daughter of Time]

an afterthought : Elaine Douglass suggested to me that abductees are being used as prototypes -- that they [archons/the controllers] are developing & refining techniques on/thru us that they will then use on all of you -- genetically -specific, of course

makes me kind of nervous -- that whole 'transhumanism' thing, turning Humans into bio-robots [the Earth Human form of the growing army of Greys] -- & that abductees are starting to report the use of technology

Well, they sure haven't turned me into a robot.

Though I have to admit, my creative and psychic abilities have been decimated, but my sensitivity hasn't.

[Chester]

sigh ,,,,, i am not talking about psychic intrusion -- i am talking about technological intrusion -- psyches of various kinds creating & using the technology, true, but still technological intrusion


Exactly, you are talking about the physical reality component of the entire archontic experience as if this is all that matters.

Nowhere did 9eagle9 suggest that her comment was aimed universally at all forms of archontic attack.

She clearly stated that her opinion is that if there are advanced beings of a benevolent nature that are inclined to intervene in some helpful way they have apparently not done so in any noticeable way with regards to the psychic attacks, one of the entry points for some entities within the entire archontic structure that may (and likely) includes physical entities that use technology of a physical nature in their process of abductions.

Why do you imply her statement to be universal?

In addition, you seem to imply that technology is limited to the physical world but surely you do not mean to do so, do you?

It almost smacks of materialism in that only the physical world exists and which happens to be the very goal of the archontic forces for humanity to sink into believing. And this has been reported by just about every authority of the subject of archons and has been the pointed out by David Icke over and over as a potential point of no return.

I would hate a reader of this thread to only consider one's physical world experience with regards to what may in fact be the very most significant issue humanity on earth is dealing with at this time. justoneman

[wynderer]

--------------------------------------------

[Chester]

pls read my post -- my long post -- about my RVing & the techno payback attack -- this thread & my posts on it are not a philosophical discussion for me -- i am fighting for my life -- & not against wimpy astral attacks


Maybe "wimpy" for you but manifested very real for me in that I acted upon a pounding voice in my head and experienced two serious suicide attempts. Get a grip, though your experience is unique, does not mean that the only experiences of attack that duplicate the ones you have had are the only ones of any authenticity. I am amazed you can't see this and I am having difficulty in letting this go because this is a public forum and there are many who may be seeking some knowledge of this matter so they can obtain resolution for their own experiences of attack.

[wynderer]

-------------------------------------

[Hervé]

[...]

-- Steve Richard's method is not so new...

[...]

Steve Richards's method itself is new. The tradition he drew it from is at least 60,000 years old... that's Atlantis to Roman "civilizations" SIX TIME OVER.

As for benevolent ETs and their dilemna, Alex Collier friends kept repeating to him: "baby-sitting," in all attempts at it have always failed. It has never worked and it never will."

So... we are left with these boots... and they have straps... so that we boot-strap ourselves out of this imposed hypnotic trance.

Speaking of hypnotic trances...


thses techniques do not work on the new technology they use in abductions -- time to look for new solutions, i'd say

Says who? The ETs you can trust? All they need to do is convince one under hypnosis that they are using secret, new, unbeatable technologies and their job is nicely done through one being utterly convinced it can't be done.

[wynderer]

-----------------------------------------

[Chester]

Justoneman, i think your issues are more of the psychological nature -- & thus of course you find the psychological posts of help -- also you wrote, i believe, of some association w/ some 'Dragon' society -- not trying to be rude or critical, but, to me, you thus opened the door to some of your problems

i always test as psychologically healthy [like many abductees -- see John Mack] -- i don't hear or listen to voices in my head -- my issues are not in my head -- i do not feel special because of my experiences --

still waiting for you &/or 9Eagle9 to read & comment upon my post

Again you post as an authoritarian - my "associations" with Dragon societies have been in the form of someone who has studied their concepts but never chose to join. This assumes all Dragon societies are evil and/or under archontic control which I do not share in that view.


And again you forget it was you, wynderer, who stated that what I experienced was an abduction experience (of a physical nature).

"Hi justoneman -- that sounds like an abduction experience to me --"

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?44353-My-possible-abduction-experience&p=477022&viewfull=1#post477022

Why the selective memory? Why restrict everything to physicality? Is that because you are not willing to consider solution for you (and others) could occur through the entire being of the human being which most of us do not limit to just the physical body? Yes, I focus more on the entire being, Why? Because those who have achieved resolution have done so by not denying their non-physical components such as their emotions, their mind, their ego, their soul and their core, the Spirit as I have discovered I am... perhaps I am deluded or perhaps I am the only one to have these components of my being.

I saw my issues as related to each and every component of my being. I am of the opinion that unless one works with their entire being, they will not likely ever experience resolution. And you have stated several times you continue to be abducted.

Seems logical that you might consider what everyone here has suggested, save maybe observer, the last several pages.

I think I have been able to make my final points. Likely you will have a reply, but I believe I have reached the end as to this part of the discussion.

I wish you well, justoneman

[Hervé]

[...]

the torture & killing of [true] indigenous Shamans all over the world

[...]

One is entitled to wonder why they bother if indeed "they don't work so well."

[wynderer]

--------------------------------------

[9eagle9]

If you are not technologically savvy how would you know that certain sorts of technology is futile to resist?

I read all sorts of horror stories about what sort of doomsday technology 'they' have, and I read just as many accounts from technologically savvy people how to counter that sort of thing. Dr. Pete Peterson seems pretty savvy to me , technologically speaking, and while seemingly a bit reserved on certain matters, he didn't seem to carry the doomsday flag. Maybe his knowledge makes him secure.

As long as people are controlled by psychological compromise there's no point in them having to employ high technology. The ptb after all has a great of money, and there's no point wasting a 10 million dollar bullet when they can compromise someone's psyche. Especially against one person.


the technology is not just physical -- that is one point i am trying to make -- i am not of a techno mind, so the only way i can express it is that it spans both 3D & 4D



Again you post as an authoritarian - my "associations" with Dragon societies have been in the form of someone who has studied their concepts but never chose to join. This assumes all Dragon societies are evil and/or under archontic control which I do not share in that view.


And again you forget it was you, wynderer, who stated that what I experienced was an abduction experience (of a physical nature).

"Hi justoneman -- that sounds like an abduction experience to me --"

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?44353-My-possible-abduction-experience&p=477022&viewfull=1#post477022

Why the selective memory? Why restrict everything to physicality? Is that because you are not willing to consider solution for you (and others) could occur through the entire being of the human being which most of us do not limit to just the physical body? Yes, I focus more on the entire being, Why? Because those who have achieved resolution have done so by not denying their non-physical components such as their emotions, their mind, their ego, their soul and their core, the Spirit as I have discovered I am... perhaps I am deluded or perhaps I am the only one to have these components of my being.

I saw my issues as related to each and every component of my being. I am of the opinion that unless one works with their entire being, they will not likely ever experience resolution. And you have stated several times you continue to be abducted.

Seems logical that you might consider what everyone here has suggested, save maybe observer, the last several pages.

I think I have been able to make my final points. Likely you will have a reply, but I believe I have reached the end as to this part of the discussion.

I wish you well, justoneman

[9eagle9]

Lol. ALL of our issues are psyche related, not spiritually related. Psychologically healthy does not mean spiritually expressive. By whose standards did you test, the ptb standards?

Wyn Seriously. By your own self admission (and not by any opinion I've formed about you) you've claimed to be a warrior but adopt these doom day attitudes, by your own self admission you've admitted to being emotionally immature and over reactive towards certain topics relative to this one, you claim to be not techno savvy but seem convinced that no one can compromise their technology. While I appreciate these admissions as honest admission, it does lend a certain factor in what what I accept as a 'credible' source and one not so credible.

Putting all that together why do you think you can convince us that we should accept your opinions as the truth?




Justoneman, i think your issues are more of the psychological nature -- & thus of course you find the psychological posts of help -- also you wrote, i believe, of some association w/ some 'Dragon' society -- not trying to be rude or critical, but, to me, you thus opened the door to some of your problems

i always test as psychologically healthy [like many abductees -- see John Mack] -- i don't hear or listen to voices in my head -- my issues are not in my head -- i do not feel special because of my experiences --

still waiting for you &/or 9Eagle9 to read & comment upon my post

[9eagle9]

Technology can intrude on the psyche

You see there is this thing called a TV.....


sigh ,,,,, i am not talking about psychic intrusion -- i am talking about technological intrusion -- psyches of various kinds creating & using the technology, true, but still technological intrusion


If they were so amazing I can't figure out why they can't figure out how to heal psychic intrusion. Maybe they weren't as good as you'd like to remember them to be, and there are actually some people out there better at it than they are .

What technology? Once one understands the nature of the technology one can understand how to thwart it. Once I understood the TV was rotting my processes I turned it off.

That sounds flippant and facetious but I'm serious. You said these were people of mind, body and spirit experts not that they were technologically savvy. Maybe that's where they failed at.

[Bill Ryan]

why do you think you can convince us that we should accept your opinions as the truth?

I'd gently suggest that none of us know the truth, or even pretend to know it all. I doubt if anyone here is trying to convince anyone else of anything.

All of us, including many anonymous guests who frequently read this thread (and the researchers and writers referenced on this thread in many places) are looking for answers to good questions.

In exchanging opinions -- and experiences -- the opportunity is for us all to work together, not against one another, to see if we can collectively take a few steps nearer to whatever the truth may be.

[9eagle9]

A perfect example of consciousness imposing influence on perception and re-translating it.




Wyn,

Thank you for your story.

Do you know who the good guys are?

Did they tell you where they come from?

Did they inform you as to why you were targeted in the first place?

Did they give you any clues as to why they waited so long to show up to help you?

We know a lot about the bad guys, so if you have any information to share about the good guys, it would be welcome.

Thank You DoT, and this is (in my opinion) the very most important question to get answers about. I highly respect Truman Cash and his experience (as far as he has reported upon) is sans of any "good guys" though he recently established what he characterized as a "good relationship" with a Gray (I have seen some folks use "Grey" and have no clue which one is more correct).

Anyways, based on my experience which has been almost and only what seems to be "non-physical interventions" and though one particular "personality" I came to know always came across as quite wise and never lied to me nor ever caused me harm from my best perception and perspective, I am of the opinion as of now that there are likely no benevolent non physical, non human nor non earth born human beings that are interacting with us earth born human beings.

I want to believe there are! And in fact, I want to so, so badly that I won't believe there are unless I have a direct experience with one that is.

Even this one, isolated voice I have been able to communicate with, I am highly skeptical about because a.) it is just a voice and b.) how do I know this voice is not also one of the other voices which did lead me to harm myself?

So I am extremely skeptical there are any "good guys" at this point in time.

Having said all that, there are folks I highly respect who have recanted experiences that I interpret to suggest there are indeed good guys. In some cases, these folks I highly respect stated they believed whole heartedly these were good guys.

I hope one day to know for certain myself and I hope that what I know would be that there are. justoneman

As always, it is very difficult and nearly impossible for some to believe things which are outside their frame of reference.

I know I've posted this before: When Columbus first reached the new land with 3 ships and white men, the aboriginals could not see either the ships nor the white men, and these were physical! They could not see them because ships and white men were outside their frame of reference. The shaman saw them first because the shaman was operating from a higher level of consciousness and he taught the others to "see". I hope this is not seen as going off topic because I'm trying to make a point.

There are many who have never had encounters with dark forces, so they believe that dark forces do not exist but that they are merely a construct of a troubled mind. This is what psychiatrists, more or less, make their patients believe, and this is why psychiatrists never cure anyone. Again, not trying to go off topic...

If you have had experiences with only malevolent beings, then that's what you will believe. This much is logical.

Although my experiences with malevolent, non physical beings, far surpass the experiences with benevolent, non physical beings, I have had experiences with benevolent non physical beings too. The list of these benevolent non physical beings visiting me is short, but it does exist. On top of my list is Yeshua. And this is what he has said to me:

"THERE IS NO FORCE OUTSIDE YOU WHICH IS GREATER THAN YOU. NO MATTER HOW FRAGMENTED YOU FEEL, YOU ARE STILL WHOLE AT YOUR CORE. YOUR WEAKNESS IS AN ILLUSION CAUSED BY THOSE WHOSE AIM IS TO DESTROY YOU. AND IF YOU GIVE INTO THAT BELIEF, THEN YOU WILL BE VIRTUALLY, DESTROYED. THE ANSWERS ARE WITHIN YOU. YOU MUST FIND YOUR OWN SOLUTIONS AND REGAIN STRENGTH TO BECOME IMPENETRABLE TO THE PERPETRATORS. NOT ONLY MUST YOU BECOME IMPENETRABLE, BUT YOU MUST REGAIN YOUR FULL BELIEF IN YOURSELF SO THAT THE PERPETRATORS WILL NOT EVEN ATTEMPT TO HARM YOU. UNLESS YOU LEARN TO DO THIS, YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO RISE TO A HIGHER DENSITY. THEIR AGENDA IS TO PREVENT YOU FROM RISING TO A HIGHER DENSITY BECAUSE ONCE YOU ARE THERE, THEY WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO TOUCH YOU AGAIN. THIS CAN BE DONE, AND DO IT, YOU WILL."

For those of us who have always been targets and have sunk to the low vibrations of worry and fear, a word from these beings who operate from a higher density is very helpful and encouraging. I will have to remember those words whenever I feel lost or read discouraging thoughts. This is easier said than done, but done, it must be.

My wish for you Justone, is that some day soon you will experience the presence of a benevolent non-physical being. I'm not even remotely suggesting that you rely on them or ask them for help. I just wish this for you because it's such an elating experience and once you've had that experience, you will never forget it. You will still have to do your own work in freeing yourself, as we all do. But it is comforting to know that we are not alone when it comes to benevolent beings.

[wynderer]

-------------------------------------------------

[9eagle9]

Well what do you think Bill. Is a defeatist attitude and deflecting all suggestions of self preservation as 'useless' when there is evidence to the contrary, going to help us out of the collective ditch? How does one move on collectively when there's those in the collective who claim we can't move on so can't make the attempt. That's not a collective effort.

Sure they can be swept along into an original future circumstance but how well are they going to fare there? When all the systems fail, those who depend on systems are going be in tough place if they are dependent on systems.

There really is no need to convince anyone to think that water is dry when someone knows water is wet. I'm coming from the stand point of why are some people so adamant that their opinions take precedence over evidence? Thats what the powers that be did to us. Some things are demonstrable and provide their own evidence, why we let people kill that under something that is a personal prejudice. I mean this is just small scale episode of something that has been repeating for years, centuries, eons maybe on a greater collective level.

Or should people just forget the collective part of it and go it alone? Oviously Wyn's remarks are not going to thwart the self determined, but that is because people are saying "You've made it obvious that you are not experienced enough on certain subject to make a determination. You admitted to it."
I am not at all convinced by what I am seeing these days that collective steps are possible. Collective means organized co-operation. Politic and governance used to simply be a means of organizing people for the greater good of all until it took just a few to turn into a means of control meant to benefit those who didn't want the majority to progress.

It took a handful of creepy backwards people to rule the world, I don't see why it its against all odds that in spite of the resistance towards progress, that it shouldn't take but a few (relatively speaking) to take it back. Or at least level the playing field.

Doing the same thing over and over again doesn't seem like we are going to create different circumstances.



why do you think you can convince us that we should accept your opinions as the truth?

I'd gently suggest that none of us know the truth, or even pretend to know it all. I doubt if anyone here is trying to convince anyone else of anything.

All of us, including many anonymous guests who frequently read this thread (and the researchers and writers referenced on this thread in many places) are looking for answers to good questions.

In exchanging opinions -- and experiences -- the opportunity is for us all to work together, not against one another, to see if we can collectively take a few steps nearer to whatever the truth may be.

[wynderer]

---------------------------------------------

[Brizil]

why do you think you can convince us that we should accept your opinions as the truth?

I'd gently suggest that none of us know the truth, or even pretend to know it all. I doubt if anyone here is trying to convince anyone else of anything.

All of us, including many anonymous guests who frequently read this thread (and the researchers and writers referenced on this thread in many places) are looking for answers to good questions.

In exchanging opinions -- and experiences -- the opportunity is for us all to work together, not against one another, to see if we can collectively take a few steps nearer to whatever the truth may be.

I can't agree with Bill more here. I am glad you posted this Bill. IMO, in fighting throughout the "alternative media" has spread like the plague and has really disrupted/slowed down what we all want to accomplish. To be a TRULY free globally connected society of human beings.

[9eagle9]

I have no idea about what post you are talking about Wyn after flipping back a few pages, could you please link me to it? You expressing something about RV and techno payback attack is not ringing a bell.



pls read my post -- my long post -- about my RVing & the techno payback attack -- this thread & my posts on it are not a philosophical discussion for me -- i am fighting for my life -- & not against wimpy astral attacks



sigh ,,,,, i am not talking about psychic intrusion -- i am talking about technological intrusion -- psyches of various kinds creating & using the technology, true, but still technological intrusion


Nowhere did 9eagle9 suggest that her comment was aimed universally at all forms of archontic attack.

She clearly stated that her opinion is that if there are advanced beings of a benevolent nature that are inclined to intervene in some helpful way they have apparently not done so in any noticeable way with regards to the psychic attacks, one of the entry points for some entities within the entire archontic structure that may (and likely) includes physical entities that use technology of a physical nature in their process of abductions.

Why do you imply her statement to be universal?

You seem to imply that technology is limited to the physical world but surely you do not mean to do so, do you?

It almost smacks of materialism in that only the physical world exists and which happens to be the very goal of the archontic forces for humanity to sink into believing. And this has been reported by just about every authority of the subject of archons and has been the pointed out by David Icke over and over as a potential point of no return.

I would hate a reader of this thread to only consider one's physical world experience with regards to what may in fact be the very most significant issue humanity is dealing with at this time. justoneman

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Support for what?


still no support -- many members & guests reading this thread -- hope you are all being entertained

[wynderer]

-----------------------------------------------

[RunningDeer]

Thanks DoT for post # 1785. I am an optimist and I do believe I will one day have this experience. justoneman




My wish for you Justone, is that some day soon you will experience the presence of a benevolent non-physical being. I'm not even remotely suggesting that you rely on them or ask them for help. I just wish this for you because it's such an elating experience and once you've had that experience, you will never forget it. You will still have to do your own work in freeing yourself, as we all do. But it is comforting to know that we are not alone when it comes to benevolent beings.

If I had any credibility, I’m about to lose it in this post.

This doesn’t come from an airy-fairy opinion, JustOneMan, I see you as a large, benevolent being. You are huge. I’m only bringing it up for no other reason but to say it IS what I ‘see’. It’s so obvious. No one could convince me otherwise. Drats, I have no concrete proof or links for anyone to look up or orbs with your face in them to prove otherwise.

Even as I write this and make promises to myself not to push the “reply button”, I see a mostly blue aura that surrounds your head and heart area about about 6"-8" out. It intermittently mixes with a white-golden, outer part of your whole body. Seeings how I just put it out there and now, I may come across a post saying that I am the resident “airy-fairy, love and light crack-pot”, I’d ask for you please to consider the possibility. Ask your gut-knowing. I believe you'll hear a faint "yes" for now.


......................Going, going, gone ...............................http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/smiley_faces/biker-smiley-face.gif (http://emoticoner.com)

[Chester]

still no support -- many members & guests reading this thread -- hope you are all being entertained

I support you wynderer, few are brave enough to post of their experiences - especially the experiences you have had to endure. I get too carried away about solution and lost patience. justoneman

[9eagle9]

Maybe that is telling you something. I don't know of a lot of people who will support someone they perceive is on a self destructive path, that would be sick.

Wyn honestly I don't get a whole lot of support either.I am grateful for the support I get, but its not going to validate me or invalidate me through sheer numbers....or lack of. There comes a time where we have to stand on principal no matter what other people think...as long as we aren't doing it for the wrong reasons. Its the nature of the support I get that is important. PersonallyI will choose the support of a few well informed in tune people over the mass support of a bunch of people that can't find their butt with both hands.

Support doesn't always mean agreement. I see Justoneman trying to support you and DOT. It may not be the sort of support that you want but...its support.

I am fortunate that I had a couple people who were willing to take my hand, and kick me in the arse at the same time. But something was wrong in my life, and I begged the universe to send me someone who would tell me what it was instead of cooing that I was fine, all love and light, an angel in disguise. Obviously I was not, otherwise that paradigm truly is suckintudionously miserable. Or there's no intrinsic meaningful value in 'being' such things. I wanted something to change and I was willing to accept what they were showing (not telling) me. I may not have accepted it immediately and I fixed over night but it pushed me into a journey of self exploration where I had the means to confront my own demons.

Those are brave people, to risk my wrath, to break the peace, to possibly end a friendship or risk a conflict when they showed me things I might either didn't want to believe or didn't want to hear or see. I asked for that though, I asked for people to come into my life and help me figure out what was wrong with me. I couldn't see my own crap. When they showed up I couldn't stick my nose up in the air because it wasn't what I wanted to hear, because I was responsible for them showing up in the first place! I can very easily see where I could have resisted them, and sometimes I did.

This works forwards and backwards.

They did it anyway and I thank god everyday that they did. It doesn't make me popular, but that's okay one has something far more enduring than external support.

The most intrepid creators don't wait for the consensus of others.



Bill, i am not trying to work against anyone -- i am going thru a time of memories of being both an abductee & a milab beginning to break thru -- i'd thought Avalon was a safe place to talk about this

i'm getting precious little support on this thread

do you think this is easy?

it's not, trust me

[wynderer]

-------------------------------------------------

[Chester]

From the Steve Richards interview...

Annalie: The abduction question, you know, we might turn it over to Steve because when he and I were talking, he said, he said abductions were something more of problem years ago, maybe ten years ago, I think he said, but not so much now because aliens have their clones and hybrids. I mean maybe we can segue into asking Steve about this abduction phenomena and how it’s playing out, what his information is about that.

Randy: Yea, I’d like to hear that as well.

Miranda: Yea.

Steve: Yea look, I go back, when I first started putting this together and, you know five years prior to putting this course together – I’ve been twelve years teaching – that goes back really about fifteen years now. And, back in those days, you know, I was one of the only people in the world that could deal with abductions. And, there was quite a lot of abductions taking place. And what I would do, I’d enfold space‐time, back to the cause, the effect of the original agreement in time, no matter how far back in time it was. You see, one thing I realized is there’s lore. L‐o‐r‐e. And, for a planet to be suspended in space, there has to be laws of lore. And one of the laws I found covers all dimensions.

They’re all governed by these laws. And one of those laws is nothing can invade the space of another without permission. So they had to get permission way back in time. Once they got permission from you, that was an agreement. That agreement is valid through time and space for eternity. The same people that’ve being abducted today are the people who made the agreements thousands of years ago. So by enfolding space‐time of the dimension and going back to the cause and effect of the agreement, and breaking the agreement way back in time, would actually stop those abductions from taking place into the future. It ceased to be.

Comment: It could not hurt any abductee to consider and explore this possibility which then might lead to solution.

justone

[9eagle9]

Wynder, excuse my confusion but I was expecting to see a story about yourself. I do recall reading this and I thought you said "my story". This is someone elses story ,correct?

My opinion. Since you asked for it: Like so many other people before her concerning RV she ended up getting into something she didn't know all the ends and outs of. It is a learned mental ability not a spiritual one, so that means those who RV are just as susceptible to compromise as anyone else with a mind. Well educated RVers perhaps not so much so. If I had an opportunity to speak to this woman I'd probably question her the same way I'm questioning you. Maybe different questions. Probably, like what the hell were you thinking of? Do you not know the PTB developed this, and so this is their domain that you went blundering into without thinking of the consequences. The same way we all went blundering into lines of credit and social security cards--we didn't have full disclosure. This is not the same as telling them not to RV its telling them to know what they are leaping into before they leap into it. FULL disclosure. We the people do not get a whole lot that.

The same thing I'd ask anyone who trip trapped into a clinic and accepted a vaccine" I don't know what it is really, or how it works, or whats in it, but it promises to keep me from getting the flu." Well we see we get a lot more than just flu protection when we get a vaccine...sometimes we get the actual flu. Among other nasty things.

Unfortunately people who go trip trapping into RV without exploring the full implications of it end up in this sort of compromising position. I'm sorry that it happens. Certain safety factors are not taken into consideration, like if you want to RV don't look at what you are viewing.If one does not understand that seemingly paradoxical statement they perhaps may wish to think twice before RVing.

RV is NOT a recreational vehicle.

RV is big part of our remote containment, our population containment programs. Do we not realize this in advance? Many 'abilities' dangled out there are. If not maybe we need exercise some discernment before we poke our eyeballs at something that far more adept and educated in it then we are. They now have the means to record what they are RVing and they have technologically advanced viewing modules. This on it's own is something that could be overcome but not if people aren't aware of it BEFORE they start to view. I'm sorry that was a grievous way to pay for one's own ignorance but it happens because of reasons I've already mentioned.

Conversely.....Someone who is being viewed also has the ability to reverse, and put lot of feedback, back to the viewer essentially backlashing the intrusive mind with a lot of high frequency noise. That's called psychic defense. If they had not opened a door to another, the other wouldn't have had opportunity to slam it in their face.

One nice thing about technology, particularly if it is EM based, is that it can be blown out.

RV like anything else could be a learning experience, and we can learn from other's mistakes instead of incorporating the mistakes of others into our destiny. It COULD be a valuable tool in freeing ourselves but not if we are going to turn into a means of imprisonment....mainly because of our own ignorance.

[wynderer]

-------------------------------------------------

[Daughter of Time]

Wyn,

No one here is against you. I feel for what you've been through. i understand. And if some of the contributors here seem a little impatient it's because I think they'd like you to switch to a different way of thinking. If people here didn't care about what you've been through, they wouldn't even bother to reply to your posts. if someone is not worthy of a response, their posts are simply ignored. Your posts are not being ignored because people want to help you. You may not see the replies as being "supportive" but that is merely because they do not agree with what you say. And who has ever learned anything by being only around people who agree with everything they say?

Everyone wants you to be free of your burdens. This community "is" supportive even when there are disagreements. If you were to tell me, one of these days, that you've managed to free yourself from abductions and your health is now perfect, I'd break out the champagne! Justone doesn't drink so he'd have to open a bottle of sparkling water. I don't know what everyone else would do, but you can bet they would all congratulate you and they'd happier for you than you can ever imagine.

You think you'll be going "home" soon. I'm afraid, dear Wyn, that's another programming because when one has been a target all of one's life, they don't allow you to go "home". They just keep re-programming you to come back for more. I'm sorry if this sounds horrible, but this is what i've learned, and as Bill said, no one knows the absolute truth, but I don't think they'll let you off the hook that easily. We don't get to go "home" when we die unless we manage to clear our clutter down here first. You may be here for a long time yet. I hope you are, and that you'll use your time to set yourself free at whatever level is possible at this point in time.

With love,

DoT

[9eagle9]

The first exposure to the Law of Lore was back in o2/ or 03. When I had no idea what it was, but I journaled it anyway. And the journal basically describes how people self create their own reality and then agree to it. During that same time I was given the knowledge of "People can't be told, they have to be shown".


I thought that was cool. Neato! Then I realized the implications of it. Sometimes we have to through experience (be shown) and repeated patterns keep experiencing the same crap over and over again, not listening to a word other people say like "You are walking in circles" into we get so sick of our own condition we do something to correct it. If we are getting something from our own condition, we may not be tempted to change it.

I didn't even know the Law of Lore which is pretty prevalent in druidic mysticism was a knowledge that someone else had, because no one talks about it. Therefore no one gets any exposure to the concept. There are cultures that have adapted that law and made it into a god. And worship it , regardless of what sort of name they give it.




From the Steve Richards interview...

Annalie: The abduction question, you know, we might turn it over to Steve because when he and I were talking, he said, he said abductions were something more of problem years ago, maybe ten years ago, I think he said, but not so much now because aliens have their clones and hybrids. I mean maybe we can segue into asking Steve about this abduction phenomena and how it’s playing out, what his information is about that.

Randy: Yea, I’d like to hear that as well.

Miranda: Yea.

Steve: Yea look, I go back, when I first started putting this together and, you know five years prior to putting this course together – I’ve been twelve years teaching – that goes back really about fifteen years now. And, back in those days, you know, I was one of the only people in the world that could deal with abductions. And, there was quite a lot of abductions taking place. And what I would do, I’d enfold space‐time, back to the cause, the effect of the original agreement in time, no matter how far back in time it was. You see, one thing I realized is there’s lore. L‐o‐r‐e. And, for a planet to be suspended in space, there has to be laws of lore. And one of the laws I found covers all dimensions.

They’re all governed by these laws. And one of those laws is nothing can invade the space of another without permission. So they had to get permission way back in time. Once they got permission from you, that was an agreement. That agreement is valid through time and space for eternity. The same people that’ve being abducted today are the people who made the agreements thousands of years ago. So by enfolding space‐time of the dimension and going back to the cause and effect of the agreement, and breaking the agreement way back in time, would actually stop those abductions from taking place into the future. It ceased to be.

Comment: It could not hurt any abductee to consider and explore this possibility which then might lead to solution.

justone

[Chester]

wynderer, you have a Grey walk-in friend? Since you used the word friend, I assume you are ok with this Grey walking-in. Someone once told me a walk-in replaces the individual spirit in the body walked into and I told them I believed a walk-in could come in and the individual's spirit didn't have to leave and thus two spirit beings could occupy the one body. I told that to my hypnotherapist under hypnosis last early June. Actually, it was the voice that came out of me during that session that said it was a walk-in and that I refused to leave and thus we became two.

It was this specific entity that I believe "came in" in that experience I shared with you about when I was 6 years old. But recall it was against my will (or so I thought because I fought and tried to let go of the object they placed in my left hand and that is when a force within my hand took over and grasped the object tighter and then I blacked out).

In my session the entity said that "it" was being placed in "me" (my body) and I didn't leave as "it" said was the agreement. And so there's been me and "it" until recently (I think "it" is gone now).

What do you think about that? Any thoughts? Thanks... justone

[wynderer]

-------------------------------------------------

[Chester]

i know you mean well, dot -- but actually i really don't care if y'all 'care' about what i am saying

i'm not looking for 'the absolute truth' -- i'm dealing w/my life as it is

i'm not going to 'be here for a long time yet' -- i very stupidly volunteered to come to this God-forsaken planet to try to help those who i am beginning to call to myself 'the idiot Humans'

missed your chance, lady -- you could have asked me about the 'good guys' , ET/ED -- w/just a little kindness & hearing/attention from ANYONE -- i had a lot to tell

i think the Gnostics were right -- 3D in this Universe is a cold, uncaring place



I asked to hear about the good ETs... I wish you would share about them. I want to meet one (or more) and am still anticipating I will one day.

[wynderer]

----------------------------------------------

[RunningDeer]

still no support -- many members & guests reading this thread -- hope you are all being entertained

Hang in there, Wynderer. http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/smileys/wet-kiss-smiley.gif?1292867699

I'm only seeing the love and determination everyone has for everyone in these recent posts.

[Daughter of Time]

Wyn,

I'm sorry you feel the way you do. I didn't think I was being unkind when I asked about the "good guys". I was interested in what you had to say.

May your life get better.

Best wishes to you.

DoT

[wynderer]

-------------------------------------------------------------

[9eagle9]

You aren't supposed to state that to the mortal humans directly Wyn, they tend not to trust anything you say when you do. You're hitting on a collective wound that you share with them, and it doesn't promote acceptance but division. If you are that much better than they, why do you seek their support? What can they do for you, if you are the all knowing supreme being.

The pearls do not seek advice from the swine.

[wynderer]

-----------------------------------------------------

[Chester]

huh??? no way am i 'the supreme being' -- that's more of the newagey thing

i do not share 'the collective wound' -- perhaps by that you mean the ongoing collective satanic blood ritual, largely accomplished thru the massive, collectively/socially accepted slaughter of your non-Human Animal brothers & sisters

i do not think i am 'better' than Earth Humans -- do you think i would have come here if i thought they were not worth it?

i am only looking for support as my last-ditch effort to find some Humans who can hear what i have to say


You aren't supposed to state that to the mortal humans directly Wyn, they tend not to trust anything you say when you do. You're hitting on a shared collective wound that you share with them, and it doesn't promote acceptance but division. If you are that much better than they, why do you seek their support? What can they do for you, if you the supreme being.

The pearls do not seek advice from the swine.

I think those humans left the building with Elvis

[Reaver]

y'all ain't earned that privilege yet
That's suspicious. That's the kind of thing I hear people who are the gatekeepers of the system tell others. If someone is having dreams of of meeting someone who is considered "the big noise" and it's not deemed worthy enough then that person would be told that he/she hasn't earned the privilege of meeting someone who is deemed to be above everyone else.

I certainly won't woship another being, I don't care how much more evolved it is than me. I could respect that being because of its understanding, intelligence, patiente, etc. But to worship it? heck I already went through that phase with the christian god and I'm not planning in doing it again with some extra-terrestrial.

[RunningDeer]

i see nothing -- as Sun Bear used to say, 'If your philosophy doesn't grow corn, i don't wanna hear about it'

one would think that a forum touted as 'the best on the internet' would produce the corn of intelligent comments from the many members & lurkers on this thread [have learned not to request compassion from Earth Humans]



still no support -- many members & guests reading this thread -- hope you are all being entertained

Hang in there, Wynderer. http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/smileys/wet-kiss-smiley.gif?1292867699

I'm only seeing the love and determination everyone has for everyone in these recent posts.


"have learned not to request compassion from Earth Humans"

Hello Wynderer,

Requesting compassion from Earth Humans is not always needed. The compassionate ones automatically give it. Awareness to receive it is the gift back to the compassionate ones. But even that is not expected. Gifting is the joy. The rest is bonus bucks for zappos.com

With heart,
Paula
http://www.white-light-books.com/heart.gif

"What the heck does that even mean?" she asked.
"Damn, if I know. And what's this zappos.com?" she answered.
"Heck, if I know," she shrugged and burped.

[wynderer]

-----------------------------------------------

[Reaver]

i do not think i am 'better' than Earth Humans -- do you think i would have come here if i thought they were not worth it?


y'all ain't earned that privilege yet
that was your response to another member regarding his/her desire to meet a benevolent alien.


one would think that a forum touted as 'the best on the internet' would produce the corn of intelligent comments from the many members & lurkers on this thread [have learned not to request compassion from Earth Humans]


Not that I'm a saint, in all probability I am the biggest SOB in all its derogatory sense on this forum, but those comments certainly seem to be full of contempt for those people who are not willing to accept the supremacy of some alien beings. Now I understand that someone has harsh, no BS style (that's a style I use) and would kick people in the ass when needed, but the constant hammering regarding people's unworthiness because they don't want to accept X or Y argument regardless of its authenticity.... well as I said, that's suspicious in my eyes.

[RunningDeer]

huh??? no way am i 'the supreme being' -- that's more of the newagey thing

i do not share 'the collective wound' -- perhaps by that you mean the ongoing collective satanic blood ritual, largely accomplished thru the massive, collectively/socially accepted slaughter of your non-Human Animal brothers & sisters

i do not think i am 'better' than Earth Humans -- do you think i would have come here if i thought they were not worth it?

i am only looking for support as my last-ditch effort to find some Humans who can hear what i have to say


You aren't supposed to state that to the mortal humans directly Wyn, they tend not to trust anything you say when you do. You're hitting on a shared collective wound that you share with them, and it doesn't promote acceptance but division. If you are that much better than they, why do you seek their support? What can they do for you, if you the supreme being.

The pearls do not seek advice from the swine.

I think those humans left the building with Elvis

One still stayed, for now anyway.... PS I know it was a joke. http://serve.mysmiley.net/fighting/fighting0040.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net)

[wynderer]

-------------------------------------------------

[Chester]

edit to add : i know there are many out there beyond the confines of this matrix -- having a hard time finding any of you on Earth at this time

aHN6AViJAvI

When one finally finds themselves... they suddenly see the rest of us.

and how uncanny I happened to listen to Animals and Wish You Were Here just this morning!

Y como estas Reaver? Gracias para ser un parte de nuestra comunidad!

[wynderer]

--------------------------------------------------

[9eagle9]

Oh come on if its off planet its gotta be better than us!

The grass is always greener on the other side of the solar system.

Seriously.... this is a issue that people share about self value.

It's not really any different than people who constantly pursue others who are emotionally unavailable to them and put them on a pedestal simply because the other people don't acknowledge them. The perception is about waiting for the emotionally unavailableti finally acknowledge one---it gives over some form of support or validation.Directly related to religious programming when Gods decided how worthy you are. When I was a teen ager we called it Bad Boy syndrome. Well okay I still call it that. Completely immune to that sort of thing now.

So you're a sob eh, will you marry me?






i do not think i am 'better' than Earth Humans -- do you think i would have come here if i thought they were not worth it?


y'all ain't earned that privilege yet
that was your response to another member regarding his/her desire to meet a benevolent alien.


one would think that a forum touted as 'the best on the internet' would produce the corn of intelligent comments from the many members & lurkers on this thread [have learned not to request compassion from Earth Humans]


Not that I'm a saint, in all probability I am the biggest SOB in all its derogatory sense on this forum, but those comments certainly seem to be full of contempt for those people who are not willing to accept the supremacy of some alien beings. Now I understand that someone has harsh, no BS style (that's a style I use) and would kick people in the ass when needed, but the constant hammering regarding people's unworthiness because they don't want to accept X or Y argument regardless of its authenticity.... well as I said, that's suspicious in my eyes.

[wynderer]

-----------------------------------------------

[9eagle9]

No ...My mother was a walk in.

If I were a walk in I'd walk back out again...



i think i remember you saying once that you are a walk-in

i know some walk-ins -- they tend to focus on things quite different from the gist/heart of your posts

[modwiz]

Hey Wyn and 9eagle. Houman has a thread here that is getting away from the theme a bit. How about you two starting a thread with mud wrestling in the title.

Also, I don't like escargot. :bolt:

[Reaver]

Oh come on if its off planet its gotta be better than us!

The grass is always greener on the other side of the solar system.

Seriously.... this is a issue that people share about self value.

It's not really any different than people who constantly pursue others who are emotionally unavailable to them and put them on a pedestal simply because the other people don't acknowledge them. The perception is about waiting for the emotionally unavailableti finally acknowledge one---it gives over some form of support or validation.Directly related to religious programming when Gods decided how worthy you are. When I was a teen ager we called it Bad Boy syndrome. Well okay I still call it that. Completely immune to that sort of thing now.

Fascinating stuff, isn't it? the core dynamics are pretty much the same, but the new age system will call it being awake. I had to deal with an emotional vampire once, the tragic thing is that this woman was intelligent, but her own emotional garbage would get in the way of making any progress. Any criticism towards her behaviour was seen as an attack and was she fast to rally allies for her cause. Always had to get validation from her friends, she needed to hear how sweet and compassionate she was. Ironically she went through abusive romantic relationships and was still on that loop when I had interactions with her. Talk about ignoring the messages of your own psyche.


So you're a sob eh, will you marry me?
My lack of human decency and morality doesn't allow me to marry. I'd be decandence personified with no ability to remain committed to a monogamous relationship with a wonderful social life. I'm a poor choice and my multiple personality disorder makes it worse. Spanking could fix me though :whip:

[9eagle9]

On further consideration, I don't concur.

Pretty much an overt expression or perhaps piece of evidence that fits right in with the of the theme of the thread. Attachments to certain ideas, no matter how contradictory or non-life affirming or de-valuing and no amount of mud wrestling will fix that.

[Adi]

Peace is constructed, not fought for.

Adi

[Reaver]

I wasn't concurring with Modwiz, but since I have both my hands out now I could share spanking equally.
As a I said, it was a Freudian Slip. In fact I'll just blame Modwiz and rationalize my desperation and confusion.


I was actually sobbing over your rejection of me, and thinking of ways i could steal your cat and contact your family.
I have no cat, but you can steal my whole family :evil:

[Houman]

the ongoing collective satanic blood ritual, largely accomplished thru the massive, collectively/socially accepted slaughter of your non-Human Animal brothers & sisters
According to the research of Dr Turner some abductees report "a human" counterpart to this...
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m61rjwdZjT1rouaano1_500.jpg

[Houman]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3i941vMEm1qi02hlo1_400.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6aOYIjbfC8


¤=[Post Update]=¤

http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serpentis666/Goat.html

The Goat of Mendes
Ptah the Egyptian God of Magick, knowledge and wisdom (an alias of Satan) *became* the goat, and sometimes a ram in the city of Mendes where he was worshipped as such. The Goat/Ram of Mendes represented the "Ba" which was the Egyptian word for the "soul." Ptah was considered to be a great magician and "Lord of the Serpents."¹
...
The Horned Goat is also directly of Enki (Satan). The constellation of the Horned Goat (Capricorn) is the time of the winter solstice, known as "The Southern Gate of the Sun." ²
...
“The Goat was known in early Babylonian times as the God ‘Ea’ (Enki/Satan). Ea was known as ‘He of vast intellect and Lord of the Sacred Eye’ protector of his people and the bringer and giver of knowledge and civilization to humanity. Represented as a snake, he ended up in the ‘Garden of Eden as the Snake in the tree of life, encouraging learning and knowledge rather than blissful ignorance.’ Whenever Ea roamed the Earth, he took the form of a goat. Ea was considered the Father of Light" and his celebrations dating back to 15,000 B.C.E., were carried out wearing goat skins.³

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lwzj9aZvTj1qf4hg2o1_400.jpg

[Houman]

http://www.ritualabusefree.org/emsc%20CHAP%207%20W%20INTRO.pdf

“[26] THE GOAT OF MENDES
The Satanic practice of using a goat for sexual purposes during a ritual also comes from
Egypt. The goat of Medes or Baphomet is the most famous of all Satanic symbols. The
Satanic goat takes its name from a city in Egypt where the goat was used publicly in a public
ritual. This information is from a book called A History of Phallic Worship. The Egyptians
showed this incarnation of the Deity by a less permanent, though equally expressive symbol.
At Mendes a living goat was kept as the image of the generative power, to whom the women
presented themselves naked, and had the honour of being publicly enjoyed by him.
Herodotus saw the act openly performed, and calls it a prodigy. But the Egyptians had no
such horror of it; for it was to them a representation of the incarnation of the Deity, and the
communication of his creative spirit to man.”

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lwxiolRXQp1qdkc7oo1_500.jpg

[Houman]

It took a handful of creepy backwards people to rule the world

...and a few things behind/in them...

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l3fzicZkum1qc1lnwo1_500.jpg

http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs50/i/2011/272/d/7/skull_____by_slatkatajna-d29n5kg.jpg

[Houman]

tho they don't tend to be drawn to planets/star systems where ritual blood sacrifices & such go on, as here on planet Earth


Sadly... the worst is not the ritual blood sacrifices...

[observer]

Sadly... the worst is not the ritual blood sacrifices...

Even sadder still; abject evil has prevailed once again.

The vultures have picked the bones clean of the one among the few, commenting in here, who actually understood the theme of this thread.

Thank you Houman for, once again, getting this thread back on track.

[9eagle9]

You know if you found out the nature of those blood sacrifices, a corruption of a clearer magick called blood rites, you would understand that nature of how the energetic output of these rituals could be reversed.

Vultures aside, people seem to revel in this "We have no power, they are satanic beasts, feeding on on us all".

If you really know the nature of this sort of thing and it's origins , it's not powerful. It's petty and stupid, like immature little children playing god on the playground. These images they get jollies off on, and for some people feel the need to morbidly titillate themselves with it the same way they do.

We are not helpless in the face of this, we choose remain ignorant and uneducated about it.

[heyokah]

This text was deleted by heyokah as 9eagle9's post, to which this reply was directed has been moved.

[SilentFeathers]

The age of Aries, ruler of the cerebrum or top of the skull, the "super-conscious" and or the self knowing God or the Gods. (the true self).

Just like the creeps of today, back then they used manipulation and fear to condition people and separate them from being close to their own power and knowledge of the universal law and nature.....it's all about manipulation of others for power and control over them...(some things never change).

[9eagle9]

Because We give power to them. These are not educational images, this is not knowledege, its fear mongering.

. A skull represents how people walk with death everyday, its represents transcendence of death. To remind us of the foundations of life. Bone is where our genesis occurs at. Throwing of bones in a divining nature. The powers that be corrupted this representation so the masses can titillate themselves with the required fear like we all attending a spooky movie.

Splaying images to disturb people and chastise them without understanding and studying the nature of what has been corrupted, means you are initiating in their practices. If we spread their fear, they are afraid, and we jump on the bandwagon with them creating powers that are not only stupid, and unnecessary they are imprisoning. They use images like that to frighten when they were once used to enlighten. This is how they get you to spread their disease. So you will give them power.

People will laugh at the spooks trying to muster their feeble magick in the dark, just like they laugh at children pretending to be adults. Laughing at the dark is far better than venerating it.

Fear needs to be taken seriously in order to fulfill it's purpose. I notice people like to be taken seriously when they revel in the same thing the ptb does, but its something one learns about, the origins of these images, and how they have been corrupted into a means of psychological control. They are symbols, masks to frighten the children with because psychological leverage is what it all about.

As noted before I find your gods as petty and lacking in anything resembling power as the ones who perpetrate their images. They need people to be scared, they need people to adore their graven images, and generate a lot of emotion around them, because that is what they feed on.

[SilentFeathers]

I think the awakening is more about people regaining the use of their own intuition and common sense more than anything else......something that is surely lacking in the world today.

[9eagle9]

When people unmindfully indulge in this they are playing the same god games as the ptb does.

Regarding a skull tells one everything they need to do to get out from under this control matrix. There's nothing in the natural world that is not constantly informing us to get out from under these structures. It's played out daily in the natural world and SHOWS (doesn't tell) what people are giving power to. Images that the ptb have corrupted, remaking them in their own image. They have to remake us in their image because we are inherently powerful. We are and so they have to play mind games with themselves to convince themselves that we are not. The same thing we do in reverse. Convince ourselves they are all powerful when their weak spots can be read like a book. Their weakness is US! But prefer to remain weak. Old old representations and archtypical energies buried in the psyche, instead of pulling them out and finding the wisdom in them, we allow them to be triggered and used as a means of leverage.

A goat isn't inherently evil, there is nothing in nature that inherently evil. We create evil. We embrace it through remaining ignorant.

>Oh that's disturbing, oh that that's not taking me seriously, it must be evil.<<

The devil made it!

Goats are the perfect representation for juvenile satanic energies, they are foolish animals. They are greedy, they pop up anywhere, you'll find them in a closet, curled up in your car if you turn them loose, they invade every nook and cranny, and they will feed on everything. They will climb all over you to be fed. They aren't evil, its simply in their nature, to climb on everything and feed constantly. The ptb have assumed this qualities for themselves. What they are most expressive of, greed, invasion. No wonder they chose a goat, a simple naturally occurring creature to pervert. It best represents them. Even the ptb has to see that a goat in spite of its instrusive nature is not all that threatening so we add some bells and whistles to it to make it all powerful.

The greatest evil is ignorance. Evil isn't imposed we allow it in by choice, we accept it, we venerate it. We like to be ignorant because it keeps the emotional body titillated we have lost touch with true excitement so must create interior fear dramas to replace it even as we stumble around clamoring that someone give us peace.

It's fundamentalist in nature, its like listening to the TV evangelist showing pictures of teletubbies and saying they are gay and evil. So they have taken something that was simply mildly creepy and rather dumb (an animated vaccum?) and portrayed it as having evil powers far greater than the images merit. And those are not even real images, they were self created.

When one reflects on a goat in it's natural state why the ptb chose it as their poster child becomes obvious. It was the original herd animal, people kept goats in greater numbers than they did sheep or cattle.

Frighten the herd with images of how we want them to view us. They'll never figure out we are really them in disguise.

Why was a Ram ( a male sheep) superimposed over what is supposed to represent our clear mental processes. That's what they are doing, and we allow it. They only need our agreement to do it. How hard is it to say I'm not buying into this energy and feeding you.

The patriarchal sheep ruling our mental processes. Who made the sheep , the ram, patriarchal? They did. Superimposing a sheep over our clear mental processes.






The age of Aries, ruler of the cerebrum or top of the skull, the "super-conscious" and or the self knowing God or the Gods. (the true self).

Just like the creeps of today, back then they used manipulation and fear to condition people and separate them from being close to their own power and knowledge of the universal law and nature.....it's all about manipulation of others for power and control over them...(some things never change).

[wynderer]

Hi Houman --

as you may have seen, i deleted my most recent posts -- Observer is right on target, re few Humans being able or willing to see the trap they are in -- their self-created & self-perpetuated reality , their collective reality -- & their future --

i won't be posting on this thread again -- as Bill says, this is a near-unique & very important thread -- this world of the archons is one that abductees & milabs are forced to live in -- for us,
it's not a subject for juvenile 'humor' & self-aggrandizement & to show how witty & learned we are

had a thought for 9Eagle9 -- as i understood your posts, you are saying that you have the ability to stop abductions -- it suddenly hit me -- PLEASE let me put you in personal touch w/either Elaine Douglass or David Jacobs -- there are so many abductees they could connect you with who badly need your help -- also -- i'm sure Duncan O'Finiaon & his good lady would welcome you to their seminars to do your impressive work of stopping the milab abductions -- i'll email him for you if you want

above paragraph can be condensed into a rude USA saying: 'Put your money where your mouth is, or else shut up'

w/great respect for the work you are attempting to do on this thread, Houman --
wyn

[SilentFeathers]

9eagle9, you reminded me of a friend of mine back in 1982 that bought a brand new car and 3 days after he bought it he left the windows down and his goat Oscar climbed in it and spent the whole afternoon in this new car eating all the leather seats, dash board, material off the steering wheel, etc!!!!! He drove that car for 3 years with the interior ripped to shreads!!!!! It was quite hillarious!!!!! (not to my friend though, he thought the goat was evil) :)

ADDED: Also Eagle, some are not willing to empower themselves (protect themselves) from the sometimes malicious behavior/nature of the goat for example; thus leaving their windows down or their doors open for these critters to freely enter and do mischief.

[9eagle9]

If people were willing to do the work, I'd do it with them. It is effortless on my part when people want to make meaningful changes in their life. I don't have to do the actual spading work, they do. What you know is effortless, what you have to think about is draining.

I don't have the ability to stop abductions. I have the ability to stop my own hi-jacking. We all own are own avenues of intrusion. The nature of self ownership, if we own something we can do as we will with those avenues.

Ask JustOneMan, he will tell you I didn't wave a wand over him, I pushed something back so his essential nature could be brought forward. I walked him through it. That's all. The rest was up to him. If he didn't want to do it, there's nothing I can do, to do otherwise makes me parasitical. Taking away what people don't want to give up even as it is feeding on them. That didn't fix him, it took a brick out of the wall, but it caused something else to start happening, he will be the first to admit that.

People who are in tune with their authentic self and expressions of wherewithall prevent abductions.


I can facilitate a means to bring that forward, but if I try to bring it forward in unwilling people, they percieve me as an abuser. You note how angry people have gotten just because I've dropped matter of facts concerning how we allow ourselves to be victimized. We make agreement to it. I don't make agreements to it. Right there is a perfect example, everything I do provides its own evidence. There's your evidence of what occurs when people are not willing to help themselves. They don't see as facilitating power within them, but taking their false power away.

I can bring forward and create a space for a more authentic expression to come forward, but there are not many people who want to do the work. They did the work, not me. If they are scared of the feeble power of the ptb can you imagine how unnerved they are when they are exposed to authentic power.

Out of the hundreds of people I've encountered over the last five years, there are not many who want to do this work. It's only self empowerment not a magickal means of keeping the bad guy out.

Based on my own experience I will use great discernment where I invest myself at, based on what people are willing to achieve. Then that association becomes reciprocal. That is the entire point so we can share energy and reciprocate, synergy, creating a collective power base. I do that with two, me and another, and energy is created that is greater than what I could produce on my own. That's free energy, its not costing anyone anything. Now we can get dozens, and hundreds to align with that power base, what could we achieve. That is the ultimate goal, not personal victory, once we arrive there perhaps we'll find another goal to achieve.

If they would like me to facilitate something they are more than welcome to contact me.If they want me to facilitate something they can take the initiative and demonstrate to me they actually want help by contacting me. I'm not an ambulance chaser. This is my work, and I don't dishonor it by being an ambulance chaser.

I will by the virtue of series of progressive events , clearer pathways, be meeting Duncan eventually, I will let that take its course as spirit sees fit. Duncan is someone who I would work with, not because he needs my help, but because he is clearly demonstrating to me by initiating into avenues of abating his own trauma that he is willing to work on himself. He has a back up, Miranda. Maybe he doesn't need my help.

They are both initiating themselves in their SELVES. That would be more equitable work, not me being the facilitator, but an exchange of knowledge. Having a shared genetic history plays a greater role in what would be occurring there--then something of that nature would become reciprocal.

[NancyV]

Sadly... the worst is not the ritual blood sacrifices...

Even sadder still; abject evil has prevailed once again.

The vultures have picked the bones clean of the one among the few, commenting in here, who actually understood the theme of this thread.

Thank you Houman for, once again, getting this thread back on track.
The theme of this thread, and I've read every post, may be a lot more all encompassing than you seem to grasp or acknowledge. Many of us are quite capable of understanding that the stories of personal challenges posted by various posters ARE or MIGHT BE related to archontic influences or control. Allowing them to tell their stories in THEIR way is very important. Allowing those who have experience in resisting or banishing these influences to tell their stories in THEIR way is very important. Attempting to control others to post the way we want them to post is a losing proposition.

I'm probably not alone in reacting to attempts to shame, blame or control me and others with a thought that consists of two words, when boiled down to its essence. These two words have stood me in good stead my entire life starting as a child when I refused to allow anyone to lay guilt on me, to shame me or to attempt to blame me for something that I considered to be in their imagination and reality...NOT mine.

In fact I continued to use these 2 words when faced with negative entities in my years of out of body travels (for which I would never even desire or care to give "proof"...LOL) The two words represent a REFUSAL to accept control from those who WANT to control, no matter how powerful or puny their attempts might be. No matter how subtle they think they are being. No matter how they disguise themselves as beings of light or knowledge, or display themselves outright as demons. These 2 words are insignificant in themselves but are a representation of the power and energy of the force of my will embodied in the words.

I say these words to anyone or any god or any demon or any PTB, ET, other dimensional or any energy suck who, like a vampire, attempts to suck my energy, my life force by disempowering me either through fear, shame, blame or guilt. The words I use and mean when I say them are F U. Behind that FU is an absolute refusal to let myself be used.

[9eagle9]

That is one of the most empowering posts in a thread. You understand why I don't worship their gods, because the only thing they are worth is a FU.

There' aren't enough thanks in the forum for this one.






Sadly... the worst is not the ritual blood sacrifices...

Even sadder still; abject evil has prevailed once again.

The vultures have picked the bones clean of the one among the few, commenting in here, who actually understood the theme of this thread.

Thank you Houman for, once again, getting this thread back on track.
The theme of this thread, and I've read every post, may be a lot more all encompassing than you seem to grasp or acknowledge. Many of us are quite capable of understanding that the stories of personal challenges posted by various posters ARE or MIGHT BE related to archontic influences or control. Allowing them to tell their stories in THEIR way is very important. Allowing those who have experience in resisting or banishing these influences to tell their stories in THEIR way is very important. Attempting to control others to post the way we want them to post is a losing proposition.

I'm probably not alone in reacting to attempts to shame, blame or control me and others with a thought that consists of two words, when boiled down to its essence. These two words have stood me in good stead my entire life starting as a child when I refused to allow anyone to lay guilt on me, to shame me or to attempt to blame me for something that I considered to be in their imagination and reality...NOT mine.

In fact I continued to use these 2 words when faced with negative entities in my years of out of body travels (for which I would never even desire or care to give "proof"...LOL) The two words represent a REFUSAL to accept control from those who WANT to control, no matter how powerful or puny their attempts might be. No matter how subtle they think they are being. No matter how they disguise themselves as beings of light or knowledge, or display themselves outright as demons. These 2 words are insignificant in themselves but are a representation of the power and energy of the force of my will embodied in the words.

I say these words to anyone or any god or any demon or any PTB, ET, other dimensional or any energy suck who, like a vampire, attempts to suck my energy, my life force by disempowering me either through fear, shame, blame or guilt. The words I use and mean when I say them are F U. Behind that FU is an absolute refusal to let myself be used.

[Bill Ryan]

Hi Houman --

as you may have seen, i deleted my most recent posts -- Observer is right on target, re few Humans being able or willing to see the trap they are in -- their self-created & self-perpetuated reality , their collective reality -- & their future --

i won't be posting on this thread again -- as Bill says, this is a near-unique & very important thread -- this world of the archons is one that abductees & milabs are forced to live in -- for us,
it's not a subject for juvenile 'humor' & self-aggrandizement & to show how witty & learned we are

had a thought for 9Eagle9 -- as i understood your posts, you are saying that you have the ability to stop abductions -- it suddenly hit me -- PLEASE let me put you in personal touch w/either Elaine Douglass or David Jacobs -- there are so many abductees they could connect you with who badly need your help -- also -- i'm sure Duncan O'Finiaon & his good lady would welcome you to their seminars to do your impressive work of stopping the milab abductions -- i'll email him for you if you want

above paragraph can be condensed into a rude USA saying: 'Put your money where your mouth is, or else shut up'

w/great respect for the work you are attempting to do on this thread, Houman --
wyn

Dear 9eagle9:

Thanks for your last PM reply, three days ago.

I'm taking the unusual step of posting this message publicly. I think it's important that I do that.

It did not seem to register that after your recent spat with viking, you'd been given a reprieve after quite a lot of time-consuming moderator discussion behind the scenes. I wrote you a long and considered message which took me the best part of an hour to get right. As I said in that PM, I have better things to do, but I thought that considering your intelligence and experience, it was important to state clearly my concerns, and invite your understanding.

You've continued from that by derailing Houman's important (and sensitive) Horus-Ra thread with your personal energy, which to many is not pleasant or helpful. You did NOT seem to make the attempt to which you refer to moderate your contributions. You did not appear to understand what I was working quite hard to convey.

Most people would have engaged in a modicum of reflection after this and other recent dialogs. Either you're not able to do that, or you didn't think it necessary (instead laying the responsibility on others, as is often your weakness).

You have no idea of the effect of your invective on other people. Your words are almost permanently angry or barbed, and you spray those sharp edges around on others. You HURT people.

These people whom you hurt are the wrong target. You are angry with others in the world, but rather than dealing with that, you dump your personal stuff on those who are conveniently round you.

That is not your intention (I assume), but that's what happens. Wynderer deleted all her posts on a sensitive topic because of your words. She is responsible for her actions (and her personal growth) -- but so are you. You are neither her coach nor her teacher, and if you were, you would not be a very effective one. When members signed up for this forum, they did not contract to engage you in a dialog that would be the equivalent of being hit around the head by a Zen Master's stick. And there is no evidence that you are an effective Zen Master. People just grow to dislike you. It's that simple.

This is absolutely your last warning. It comes from me personally. I do respect you, but I have a senior duty to protect the forum and its members and its topics. You will not derail or influence the energy of Houman's very important thread any more. You have two weeks to think about what I have written above. When you return, if you dump on other people's personal experiences one more time, you will be asked to leave this forum.

***





For those reading this who've not been following the thread closely, I've just now deleted another seven posts on recent pages from 9eagle9 and others. Back to topic, please. Houman, I and many others reading this thread will appreciate this.

My regards to all -- Bill

===

[Mod-edit: Please continue discussion of the above matter on the separate thread split from Horus-Ra thread: discussion of conduct on that thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?48823-split-from-Horus-Ra-thread-discussion-of-conduct-on-that-thread) thread. -Paul.]

[truth4me]

why do you think you can convince us that we should accept your opinions as the truth?

I'd gently suggest that none of us know the truth, or even pretend to know it all. I doubt if anyone here is trying to convince anyone else of anything.

All of us, including many anonymous guests who frequently read this thread (and the researchers and writers referenced on this thread in many places) are looking for answers to good questions.

In exchanging opinions -- and experiences -- the opportunity is for us all to work together, not against one another, to see if we can collectively take a few steps nearer to whatever the truth may be. Bill,What I'm about to say is not to pump you with sunshine but your reply here on this topic is one of the best I've ever read from you on any topic IMHO. It's simplicity carries a lot of weight in our ongoing search for truth......

[SilentFeathers]

The team.....are you'all really just trying to conserve on some bandwidth?

Anyways, this is a good little description too.

Eliphas Levi's Baphomet - The Goat of Mendes
Deciphering A Ninetheenth Century Occult Symbol
http://altreligion.about.com/od/symbols/a/baphomet.htm

http://0.tqn.com/d/altreligion/1/G/4/-/-/-/Baphomet.jpg

Also, Goatshead Headpiece In 1619 KJV

http://www.cuttingedge.org/Headpiece_DevilsHead_1619KJ.jpg

[Kimberley]

******************

I have only been reading this thread from time to time and have never posted in it...

I think you all will find this interview of interest...when or if you have an hour and a half to listen to it...

5T6WyCCGcls

Lisa M Harrison interviews Kelly La Sha is the Author of Liquid Mirror. In this conversation she shares her introduction to the Dark Side as a child of 4, her rescue and spiritual training throughout childhood by a very special being and much more.

http://liquidmirror.org/wp1/

http://www.lisamharrison.com/

Much love to us all! :grouphug:

[ThePythonicCow]

[Mod-edit: Please continue discussion of the above matter on the separate thread split from Horus-Ra thread: discussion of conduct on that thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?48823-split-from-Horus-Ra-thread-discussion-of-conduct-on-that-thread) thread. -Paul.]

This thread is now reopen. I have split off the discussion of conduct on this thread to a separate thread.

[RunningDeer]

******************

I have only been reading this thread from time to time and have never posted in it...

I think you all will find this interview of interest...when or if you have an hour and a half to listen to it...

5T6WyCCGcls

Lisa M Harrison interviews Kelly La Sha is the Author of Liquid Mirror. In this conversation she shares her introduction to the Dark Side as a child of 4, her rescue and spiritual training throughout childhood by a very special being and much more.

http://liquidmirror.org/wp1/

http://www.lisamharrison.com/

Much love to us all! :grouphug:

Hi Kimberley,

I posted this vid on another thread this morning. In part this is what I said:

"I’ve listened to the vid twice now since yesterday, probably will another time. Lots covered. Lisa Harrison has just as much to offer as her guest Kelly La Sha. Kelly offers an ebook called, “Liquid Mirror,” at IPad for $1.99. Much of what is covered is review, but sometimes with a bit of a twist. So, it’s worth a listen. I had to work hard at getting past the few minutes in the beginning about abduction when she was young..." "I’m glad I didn’t click off."

"One helpful example was a shift in perspective about the Druvalo, the MerkaBa and ascension. I’ve read three of his books and then it all faded to unimportant status. Another example is how on the forum some people are drawn to threads and express ideas and teachings, i.e, I AM vs. ET's. Don't let these two example dissuade you from having a listen. There's lots more."

The other day, I posted Lisa's sun gazing interview. I explained that I always look forward to her next vid.
:wave:

[Sierra]

Allowing them to tell their stories in THEIR way is very important. Allowing those who have experience in resisting or banishing these influences to tell their stories in THEIR way is very important. Attempting to control others to post the way we want them to post is a losing proposition.

Right on. Respect is essential to communication. Respectful communication is what allows dialog to flow without getting sidetracked on personality issues.


I'm probably not alone in reacting to attempts to shame, blame or control me and others with a thought that consists of two words, when boiled down to its essence. These two words have stood me in good stead my entire life starting as a child when I refused to allow anyone to lay guilt on me, to shame me or to attempt to blame me for something that I considered to be in their imagination and reality...NOT mine.

In fact I continued to use these 2 words when faced with negative entities in my years of out of body travels (for which I would never even desire or care to give "proof"...LOL) The two words represent a REFUSAL to accept control from those who WANT to control, no matter how powerful or puny their attempts might be. No matter how subtle they think they are being. No matter how they disguise themselves as beings of light or knowledge, or display themselves outright as demons. These 2 words are insignificant in themselves but are a representation of the power and energy of the force of my will embodied in the words.

I say these words to anyone or any god or any demon or any PTB, ET, other dimensional or any energy suck who, like a vampire, attempts to suck my energy, my life force by disempowering me either through fear, shame, blame or guilt. The words I use and mean when I say them are F U. Behind that FU is an absolute refusal to let myself be used.

Again, right on. When it comes to astral travel. But I don't think (and I speak with knowledge of torture, sacrifice and death at a certain institution on the coast of California, whose name you'd instantly recognize), it is quite the same when one is physically trapped, physically weakened over a period of time, gang raped, tortured, gutted, and killed after watching multiple "victims" get theirs beforehand. With the PTB, laughing at the pain and anguish. It is hard to say FU under those conditions. And being able to scream FU under those conditions, while personally satisfying no doubt, does not change the conditions. Not one iota.

Sierra

[ThePythonicCow]

With the PTB, laughing at the pain and anguish. It is hard to say FU under those conditions. And being able to scream FU under those conditions, while personally satisfying no doubt, does not change the conditions. Not one iota.
Exactly.

Telling someone they can always stand down the torturers by saying FU loud enough essentially blames the victim for not saying it loud enough.

There is a difference between (1) helping to empower someone to say FU in more situations, succeeding more often, and (2) saying that any failure is their fault for not saying FU loud enough. The latter blames, and dis empowers.

[Cristian]

Hi guys .

I’m new to this forum.
I admit it was this kind of threads that pushed me into trying to register for the third time.

Ok , now I’ve seen some goat pictures lately in this thread. With horns and stuff. Long story short I’ve seen something similar in my living room some years ago. So I’m not laughing . I would like to know , some day, who are this dudes.
I know what they want, I know all the crap, but for once I would like to know their story. How did they end up like that…
Because you know, I do see a scared child in every demon. Nevermind all the evil, black magic, sacrifice…I do see myself in them doing all those things.

I do think being a demonic creature is part of spiritual growth.

I do think ALL of us that are on a kind of enlightenment path…we all did those nasty things , sometime in the past. We all grew out of that place. We’ve been there and at some point said : oh that’s enough.

That’s why I don’t hate them, I don’t judge them, I just acknowledge them for what they are .

The never ending cycle of life and learning.

===

[Mod-edit:

The above post was once the part of a longer post. I have split the longer post into two parts, leaving part of the post as you see above, and moving the other part to another thread, here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?48823-split-from-Horus-Ra-thread-discussion-of-conduct-on-that-thread&p=541709&viewfull=1#post541709). The original had responses to what are now two separate discussions, on two separate threads, which is why I did the split.

Welcome to the forum, Chris82 .

- Paul.]

[NancyV]

Allowing them to tell their stories in THEIR way is very important. Allowing those who have experience in resisting or banishing these influences to tell their stories in THEIR way is very important. Attempting to control others to post the way we want them to post is a losing proposition.

Right on. Respect is essential to communication. Respectful communication is what allows dialog to flow without getting sidetracked on personality issues.


I'm probably not alone in reacting to attempts to shame, blame or control me and others with a thought that consists of two words, when boiled down to its essence. These two words have stood me in good stead my entire life starting as a child when I refused to allow anyone to lay guilt on me, to shame me or to attempt to blame me for something that I considered to be in their imagination and reality...NOT mine.

In fact I continued to use these 2 words when faced with negative entities in my years of out of body travels (for which I would never even desire or care to give "proof"...LOL) The two words represent a REFUSAL to accept control from those who WANT to control, no matter how powerful or puny their attempts might be. No matter how subtle they think they are being. No matter how they disguise themselves as beings of light or knowledge, or display themselves outright as demons. These 2 words are insignificant in themselves but are a representation of the power and energy of the force of my will embodied in the words.

I say these words to anyone or any god or any demon or any PTB, ET, other dimensional or any energy suck who, like a vampire, attempts to suck my energy, my life force by disempowering me either through fear, shame, blame or guilt. The words I use and mean when I say them are F U. Behind that FU is an absolute refusal to let myself be used.

Again, right on. When it comes to astral travel. But I don't think (and I speak with knowledge of torture, sacrifice and death at a certain institution on the coast of California, whose name you'd instantly recognize), it is quite the same when one is physically trapped, physically weakened over a period of time, gang raped, tortured, gutted, and killed after watching multiple "victims" get theirs beforehand. With the PTB, laughing at the pain and anguish. It is hard to say FU under those conditions. And being able to scream FU under those conditions, while personally satisfying no doubt, does not change the conditions. Not one iota.

Sierra
You're right, here in the physical FU is not always effective other than giving one a sense of knowing that no matter what they do to you, you still always have a free choice. Of course when we deal with being physically tortured, raped or restrained we might want to consider ALL options that would not lead to our death or further torture FIRST. Then the final option might be to say FU and surrender to death.

I don't have experience with being physically restrained and tortured by the PTB here on earth. I have had several incidents (5-6) of being kidnapped, raped, drugged, beaten (with broken bones and deep cuts) and held against my will. In each of these situations I thought of all possible ways to deal with it, which often involved seeming to go along with it, or being passive until I could escape. Of course when I was drugged and gang raped I had no power to do anything since I was helpless at the time. All I had to deal with that time was deciding to not SUFFER afterwards and allow the pain to pass.

We all can feel pain but we all have the CHOICE whether we will suffer or not. I choose to not suffer, no matter what happens to me. I do not allow situations where I am more physically helpless to undermine my self worth or my spirit of resistance. Many people would like to have others support or empathize with their pain and suffering. I learned long ago that no one else can truly feel my pain and I can't feel anyone else's pain (unless I merge with them). I can imagine their pain, I can feel compassion for their pain, but I don't know how THEY feel their pain.

Often they prolong their pain by a need to suffer and continue to use that suffering as a hammer to project shame, blame and guilt on others who do not respond with the compassion they seem to crave. They actually feel that others SHOULD feel and/or understand their pain. If others do not comply with their needs they then project further guilt and shame as a victim who is misunderstood and not appreciated for their unique sufferings. This is a similar game to some of the Archon's modus operandi. It sucks energy, it attempts to make one weaker by not feeling the appropriate guilt or acknowledging that someone's victimization is "special".

I choose to not be a victim. Considering yourself to be a victim is disempowering. No matter what the circumstances, no matter the game being played out and the powers arrayed against me, I am ultimately the creator of my game here on earth. I am responsible for what I have drawn into my life. I am not an innocent victim. My husband likes to say that when the odds are completely against you, you're surrounded by enemy forces and you know that you are likely to die....what do you do? You CHARGE! Sometimes, against all odds, you will survive.

It is similar on the astral and other dimensions as it is here on earth, although here we have the added condition of being in a fragile body, easily killed, hurt or disabled. But it's still all about our human WILL. We can use that tremendously powerful force to empower ourselves or to disempower ourselves and attempt to disempower others. If we ever want to break free of Archontic influences our WILL is our most potent weapon. We cannot be victims and have a truly powerful will coexisting in the same space. They are mutually exclusive. Some negative beings seem to have a powerful and destructive will, but personally I have discovered that the negative will and power is NOT as powerful as the positive will. It may SEEM or FEEL more powerful, but that is because we let fear, shame, blame and guilt disempower our positive will.

As far as someone not being able to have that strong will, and if they choose to feel lesser than someone else or switch those feelings to ones of blaming the one who tells them that their will is powerful and think they are a failure if they can't access their will, they are again choosing to be a victim. We've all been both victims and victimizers. One is not better than the other. It's all about what lessons we wish to learn and what game we are playing in this life. I don't make a value judgment when stating my preferences and I will not accept responsibility for anyone who wants to be a victim. It's perfectly fine to be a victim and it is a very fun game of manipulation, I'm sure. It has it's own unique rewards.

So those who like to be the victim and continue their suffering are more than welcome to do so. But when some of us do not buy into their continued victim stance and get blamed for not being compassionate, it's not at all unexpected. It's normal for a victim to blame others and I accept that and don't care whether someone attempts to blame me or not. At the most I find it slightly annoying, but totally predictable. I don't expect tried and true human patterns of behavior to change. In fact I don't expect anything of anyone but I'm prepared for anything.

[Artworks]

I also enjoyed the previous interview Lisa had about Australia's role in our hidden planetary history. The people from Ireland travelled to Eypgt, then visited Australia? Along with the rest of the world and the Hopi still visit through portals.
Were people from another worlds (I am starting to dislike the use of alien or ets) stranded on this country, and then goes on the intrigue of D&A etc......

[Sierra]

We all can feel pain but we all have the CHOICE whether we will suffer or not. I choose to not suffer, no matter what happens to me. I do not allow situations where I am more physically helpless to undermine my self worth or my spirit of resistance. Many people would like to have others support or empathize with their pain and suffering. I learned long ago that no one else can truly feel my pain and I can't feel anyone else's pain (unless I merge with them). I can imagine their pain, I can feel compassion for their pain, but I don't know how THEY feel their pain.

Often they prolong their pain by a need to suffer and continue to use that suffering as a hammer to project shame, blame and guilt on others who do not respond with the compassion they seem to crave. They actually feel that others SHOULD feel and/or understand their pain. If others do not comply with their needs they then project further guilt and shame as a victim who is misunderstood and not appreciated for their unique sufferings. This is a similar game to some of the Archon's modus operandi. It sucks energy, it attempts to make one weaker by not feeling the appropriate guilt or acknowledging that someone's victimization is "special".

I choose to not be a victim. Considering yourself to be a victim is disempowering. No matter what the circumstances, no matter the game being played out and the powers arrayed against me, I am ultimately the creator of my game here on earth. I am responsible for what I have drawn into my life. I am not an innocent victim. My husband likes to say that when the odds are completely against you, you're surrounded by enemy forces and you know that you are likely to die....what do you do? You CHARGE! Sometimes, against all odds, you will survive.

It is similar on the astral and other dimensions as it is here on earth, although here we have the added condition of being in a fragile body, easily killed, hurt or disabled. But it's still all about our human WILL. We can use that tremendously powerful force to empower ourselves or to disempower ourselves and attempt to disempower others. If we ever want to break free of Archontic influences our WILL is our most potent weapon. We cannot be victims and have a truly powerful will coexisting in the same space. They are mutually exclusive. Some negative beings seem to have a powerful and destructive will, but personally I have discovered that the negative will and power is NOT as powerful as the positive will. It may SEEM or FEEL more powerful, but that is because we let fear, shame, blame and guilt disempower our positive will.

As far as someone not being able to have that strong will, and if they choose to feel lesser than someone else or switch those feelings to ones of blaming the one who tells them that their will is powerful and think they are a failure if they can't access their will, they are again choosing to be a victim. We've all been both victims and victimizers. One is not better than the other. It's all about what lessons we wish to learn and what game we are playing in this life. I don't make a value judgment when stating my preferences and I will not accept responsibility for anyone who wants to be a victim. It's perfectly fine to be a victim and it is a very fun game of manipulation, I'm sure. It has it's own unique rewards.

So those who like to be the victim and continue their suffering are more than welcome to do so. But when some of us do not buy into their continued victim stance and get blamed for not being compassionate, it's not at all unexpected. It's normal for a victim to blame others and I accept that and don't care whether someone attempts to blame me or not. At the most I find it slightly annoying, but totally predictable. I don't expect tried and true human patterns of behavior to change. In fact I don't expect anything of anyone but I'm prepared for anything.

I don't disagree with anything you say. At all. It is the best attitude to have going in to possibly fatal situations. With eyes wide open. And hopefully be able to project what one wish's to project. FU.

But ... (Yes, I am going to play Eric Berne's YesBut game lol) processing traumatic events takes time, especially if one was a tabula rasa child living in complete ignorance of evil, suddenly confronted with evil of the most horrific kind, even if one's mind did not *split* under duress. I ... I think, repeat think, that one doesn't even necessarily perceive one's self as a victim, just someone in a complete state of wtf confusion. I also wonder if the "victim" aspect comes into play, when confronted with the MSM attitudes and ignorance.

So ... This thread was created as an environment where the MSM_desired_attitudes_and_ignorance can be shown for what they are, deliberate lies to cover up horrific acts committed by the PTB. To educate people as to what actually goes down. In 1985, years before I awoke, I read a book called "The Gods of Eden" by William Bramley (Premise: all suffering is caused by reptilian "gods"). It terrified the bejasus out of me. I put it back on the shelf, and never talked about it, never loaned it out. I could not face it, at that time, as possibly being real.

This thread was created as an environment for survivors of Satanic or Illuminati violence. To begin to understand, yes, it really happened, yes, it is known about, yes, you are not alone, and yes, we believe you. I think being heard is one of the best ways to move out of survivor mode to that of a sovereign being. I think it is a critical component.

Speaking directly to the history of this thread, not you, but it is related, and please please please realize I do not intend attack, I intend clarity of this thread's purpose: To criticize someone for not being where "they are supposed to be" in one's own personal opinion, to run Werner Erhard EST or psychodrama marathon tactics or insult therapy on someone who does not know this is being done, never gave permission for it to be done, WHEN they are for the first time thinking they are in a safe place to share details of events that seriously screwed with their heads for a very long time ... ... ... is very bad timing and emotionally un-intelligent.

Regardless... Seeing someone as a victim or as a fabulous and brilliant survivor, sometimes depends on at what stage of processing_the_crap you see someone.

Let's be patient. :)

Just my .02. Well, rather my .02 and my mod hat's .02.

Sierra

[observer]

For any member interested in my reply to NancyV's comment #1860, click-on forwarding arrow.


observer's reply in another thread

[Daughter of Time]

When I first decided to post about my ET abduction experiences back in May, I did so with great trepidation. A programming kept telling me that if i disclosed my story, I would suffer a far worse fate. I'm quite certain all abductees are programmed with one program or another. My programmings have varied. I imagine this probably means that I've been abducted by different ET species. Ultimately, I don't know. I do remember being completely elated after my abudction when I was 25, feeling that something miraculous had happened to me since they told me that only the special ones are chosen! And the programming worked back then. The more recent programmings have had to do with fear.

So, in spite of the consternation I felt, i decided to post my first story back on page 37 of this thread. After that post, i received much encouragement, love, understanding, compassion and validation in the thread itself and in PMs. These reactions gave me the courage to post more and more stories, and finally, I feel that a healing can be perceived. I have moved from my state of paralysis. I do not feel helpless anymore.

If, on the other hand, the reactions to my initial story had been to tell me to "get over it and f'n' move on", I would have become further petrified; I would never have posted again; I would have felt lost in a lost world where no one cares.

While enabling a victim mentality is absolutely not helpful, compassion is a necessity when dealing with someone who doesn't have the strength to move on by their own volition. Eventually, if compassion, understanding, validation, encouragement and love don't work, then it might be time for the proverbial kick in the derriere, but the kick should not be delivered unless the other options have proven to be powerless.

[wynderer]

from Sierra's post above:

'This thread was created as an environment for survivors of Satanic or Illuminati violence. To begin to understand, yes, it really happened, yes, it is known about, yes, you are not alone, and yes, we believe you. I think being heard is one of the best ways to move out of survivor mode to that of a sovereign being. I think it is a critical component.'

from Daughter of Time's post below:

'If, on the other hand, the reactions to my initial story had been to tell me to "get over it and f'n' move on", I would have become further petrified; I would never have posted again; I would have felt lost in a lost world where no one cares.'

re Sierra's wise remark about how important being heard is to the healing process -- a bit of synchronicity for me, as the night before i'd been visiting w/a friend, & we'd been discussing healing from childhood sexual abuse -- i told her about a Rape Crisis Line in Ithaca which i called when a memory came back during that time in my life many years ago -- all the young women who responded were well-trained in the art of compassionate listening/compassionate hearing

that part of my psyche, re the sexual abuse, is well healed at this point -- the sexual abuse is a part of my past, but the abductions are not -- they are still going on -- in fact, quite a few researchers see that abductions are actually increasing at this time

re abductees & milabs being heard as part of our healing -- check out any forum that deals w/ETs & UFOs, & you'll see that few abductees share their stories, precisely because of the kind of comments -- the 'you're a spineless wimp inviting these experiences' comments -- so freely offered by those who have not walked in our shoes -- these such comments are the major form of responding to us

actually, i think it is more important that YOU hear US , the abductees & milabs -- as i said before, Elaine Douglass, who has helped many an abductee, myself included, suggests that abductees are being used as prototypes/lab animals to see what will work best on the rest of you, genetically-specific -- our stories may very well be your future , as things are going


When I first decided to post about my ET abduction experiences back in May, I did so with great trepidation. A programming kept telling me that if i disclosed my story, I would suffer a far worse fate. I'm quite certain all abductees are programmed with one program or another. My programmings have varied. I imagine this probably means that I've been abducted by different ET species. Ultimately, I don't know. I do remember being completely elated after my abudction when I was 25, feeling that something miraculous had happened to me since they told me that only the special ones are chosen! And the programming worked back then. The more recent programmings have had to do with fear.

So, in spite of the consternation I felt, i decided to post my first story back on page 37 of this thread. After that post, i received much encouragement, love, understanding, compassion and validation in the thread itself and in PMs. These reactions gave me the courage to post more and more stories, and finally, I feel that a healing can be perceived. I have moved from my state of paralysis. I do not feel helpless anymore.

If, on the other hand, the reactions to my initial story had been to tell me to "get over it and f'n' move on", I would have become further petrified; I would never have posted again; I would have felt lost in a lost world where no one cares.

While enabling a victim mentality is absolutely not helpful, compassion is a necessity when dealing with someone who doesn't have the strength to move on by their own volition. Eventually, if compassion, understanding, validation, encouragement and love don't work, then it might be time for the proverbial kick in the derriere, but the kick should not be delivered unless the other options have proven to be powerless.

[Chester]

I posted a lot the last several days prior to Sunday evening. Way more than I should have. I was stuck at my PC for other reasons and immersed myself into the Horus-Ra thread.

Through this forum I have created some personal relationships via PMs and even some chat and Skype conferences. Through perhaps my most cherished relationship I learned via e-mail yesterday about what happened in the Horus-Ra thread.

And I realized I had played a direct role in blowing up wynderer and 9eagle9. It was in part my fault. And in fact, at one point I consciously knew I was participating in something that would have to come to a head as they say. So, of course, I feel like I am “the bad guy.” At least one of “the bad guy’s.” I just happened to control myself a bit better and carefully posted such that I could appear as a “good guy.”

Perhaps I am the lowest of all the participants.

I recall when I first learned that the practice of human sacrifice was very real – back in 2002 when I read David Icke’s The Biggest Secret. I knew that I was an exception to the rule based on three things. The first was because of all the psychotic experiences I had had up to that point which gave me massive experience. The second was because of the “real world” experiences I had had up to that point – experiences with real Illuminati players - and the third was because I had something within me that was capable of taking incredibly stupid chances and for what usually seemed to most others were for the most incredibly stupid reasons.

Based on my latest experience of how this works (wynderer/9eagle9) and based on several ongoing experiences in my personal life (strangely these seem under control though could become dramas at any moment) and after contemplating all this last night and then sleeping on it for a night, I have concluded that I somehow am still very much a significant target for these demonic forces. Yet, because I have some strange fearlessness, I apparently have decided to raise my level of war against these forces (contrary to most of my posts about leaving the us/them dynamic) and found a way to create the ground from which wynderer and 9eagle9 became casualties. This just feeds the very monster I pretend to have transcended (totally BSing myself).

Referring back to this post - http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?40941-Horus-Ra-as-the-Archontic-Alien-Parasite-A-follow-up-interview-with-Maarit&p=539366&viewfull=1#post539366


Posted by wynderer (here)
edit to add : those they can't wear down, they try to break down -- those they can't break down , they try to kill
And if they can't wear you down, break you down or kill you, they will go after your siblings, your parents, your gf/bf/wife/husband, your children, and yes, even your pets... but you are not powerless to protect them...

I not only did not protect either one of them, I insidiously blew them both up... pretending I was protecting the readers who might move into despair based on comments of wynderer (pretending I am "protecting innocents who might want help), justifying it with solidly sounding arguments that those who post hopelessness and state there's nothing they can do have become minions of the actual problem BUT secretly knowing I was dangerously inciting 9eagle9 to go further - we were clearly double teaming on wynderer.

Understand the key here – I knew where this was headed.

When did I actually, consciously realize that this was in fact part of what I was doing... that this was coming from something deep within my current core being? I would say Post #1828 – ok... one very vague comment. But what I am unable at this time to accept is what I wrote in my next post #1835 –

“When one finally finds themselves... they suddenly see the rest of us.”

I had a feeling that one would send wynderer over the edge just after I posted it and I left it there. Unforgivable.

And so then I went to bed and did not return to Avalon until last night, after receiving the e-mail about the blow up. And I saw all the damage done.

So I have no doubt that I am still quite possessed if you will. In fact, it’s my opinion that not only what has been evil and feeding off me all these years is still very firmly attached. And that I have joined ever closer to this energy. Clearly, I have found some way of partnering with this entity or group of entities or “energetic collective” and become one of its most valiant soldiers.

So let’s look at this –

We have observer’s point mentioned many times – “abject evil” is what we are dealing with. He has pushed this point out there more than once.

“abject evil” I had to look up abject to get the precise meaning. The best I found was – “having sunk to the lowest”

So let me use my own words – the lowest form of evil.

And so, if observer’s observation is on target, what we have is that not only are we immersed in hell on earth, but we are immersed in the deepest, darkest crevices of hell and it happens to be here and now and in complete (and perhaps final stages of) consumption of every bit of good that is possibly left here, if there is any at all.

And I am probably one of hell’s most celebrated mercenaries. And perhaps of the very worst kind because I have deluded myself that I have become “good.” Pretending that I left the us/them. What BS. Look at the facts.

I come from bloodline family stock (the bloodlines these “controllers” have targeted to be their favorite food source such that they turn the vessels into soldiers in their army OR destroy them in the process).

And I kid myself I can be “good”?

I am a “charles” type but even worse. I am so evil that even the freaking illuminati won’t allow me in. How bad is that?

I know what I am. I know what is in me. I know what I have married within me and no matter how much I pretend being drug and alcohol free and then cleansing my body as I have been and clearing my total being through calling the name of Jesus and/or through getting into the deepest parts of my psychology and/or having shamans take away the evil entities and/or going to sessions with hypnotists or finding this forum, pouring everything out, being 100% honest even as my views shift and/or immersing myself in solutions such as holographic kinetics the fact remains, I am still completely under the thumb of true, abject evil and I am only dangerous to others.

So I am imposing a self ban upon justoneman.

I am unsure if after this honest post I would be wanted back by the creators of the Avalon forum and the good folks who run it and most importantly, the folks who could benefit from it like perhaps wynderer who may be a permanent casualty in part from my own actions.

I now become an observer but without comment though I will continue with private relationships via PMs and e-mails and private chats, etc.

Until I can control myself this is as it should be. justone

[Sierra]

So I am imposing a self ban upon justoneman.

I am unsure if after this honest post I would be wanted back by the creators of the Avalon forum and the good folks who run it and most importantly, the folks who could benefit from it like perhaps wynderer who may be a permanent casualty in part from my own actions.

I now become an observer but without comment though I will continue with private relationships via PMs and e-mails and private chats, etc.

Until I can control myself this is as it should be. justone

Justone, it is a learning curve. Lighten up on yourself. I don't know how much experience you have with forums, but it is easy to get sucked into energies. It is part of the learning process to hear one's self, as well as to hear another. It is very clear you are learning, you are moving (fast), and the din_and_heat_of_the_moment has suckered in far more posters than you could shake a stick at.

I'd really hate it if you quit posting. I love your posts. I learn something every time you post. I want to hear what you have to share. You've acknowledged your actions as you perceive them to be, there is no need to put yourself in Coventry. We have all been there and done that.

It is a big step to *see* where self control is needed. Huge step. The observer within is alive and well. :)

<easing the big stick out of JustOne's hands ... >

Sierra

[wynderer]

hi Justoneman -- just my opinion, but i do not pick up evil coming from/thru you -- as i posted before, it has been my misfortune to be targeted at times by satanic covens & individuals -- i know evil when i am near it -- & i know it when i meet it on the astral planes also

also -- that time i spent on this thread the Sunday nite of which you speak -- it was quite unpleasant -- but compared to dealing w/a Draco, what Humans were doing that night was really rather lightweight

i applaud your being willing to honestly look at & admit your part in what did feel like jackals & hyenas & vultures coming in for the kill -- but may i suggest that you are assuming far too much responsibility for your part in this? kind of the flip side of a messiah complex? --

also it reminded me of Fritz Perl's 'catastrophic expectations,' by which i understand him to mean our fears that if we truly express our emotions/feelings, we will wipe out those we direct them to -- Humans are not that powerful w/their minds [give them guns & drones, & they can do a lot of damage, tho]

glad you're back

wyn

[CdnSirian]

JOM, bear in mind too that when you're cleansing and detoxing, emotions and understandings flip all over the place. You flush poisons into the blood and through your organs and until they are eliminated, it can get dramatic. It takes practise to be the quiet observer of that particular phenomena. Detoxing is quite a task.

[wynderer]

one could say that the physical detoxing of the body is the 3D eqivalent of the 4D mind-control programming breaking down -- Duncan O'Finiaon [i think i'm spelling that wrong] told me that this programming seems to breaking down for abductees & milabs in our 50s & 60s

[Daughter of Time]

Justone,

Don't be so hard on yourself. You are not evil. And if there is something evil operating through you, then at least you're aware of it and are willing to make changes to flush it out, and flush it out, you will!

I hope you don't ban yourself for too long. I don't think anyone blames you for what happened. You were merely communicating what you felt and perhaps you were triggered. Recognizing triggers before we act on them is very difficult, but it seems you're becoming aware of those too.

Much love to you,

Daughter of Time

P. S. - perhaps whatever evil (your words) is in you is trying to convince you that this is all your fault. Perceived guilt is another one of their programmings and manipulations to keep us from freeing ourselves.

[wynderer]

hi Daughter of Time -- this is the post that i'd pm'd you i wanted to respond to in our exchange -- your message of support was greatly appreciated

i know that you are a fellow abductee -- my radar is getting pretty good for picking us out these days -- & somehow by trying to see/understand you more clearly, i see myself & my experiences more clearly

what kind of hit me -- & i'll run by this by other Avalonians also to see what they think [go ahead! dish it out! i can take it! --rude/tough act '50s Philly area saying ] -- it seems to me that you always come from/speak from the heart, the heart chakra -- & i come more from the mind -- ???

& this is why they -- the archons/controllers -- target you thru your emotions -- somehow you have managed to hold onto your love & compassion -- a tender heart -- -- an open Heart Chakra -- you have my admiration for this

they haved tried to do this w/me -- including induced 'panic attacks ' -- i did some research on this little experience from hell & learned that 1 out of 10 USA citizens experience this -- i stopped that [pls pm if you wish to know how] -- & i must confess that the word 'f***ers' came to mind when i learned this fact

also i have had the Kundalini power at the base of my spine, the Root Chakra, manipulated into activation 2 times that i can remember -- long stories both -- i got thru /got grounded thru the first w/thru the help of a good woman friend , & the second thru our Earth, Mother Earth

i have pretty much had to wall off my heart chakra in order to survive -- they have learned, therefore, that it's pretty difficult to get at me thru my emotions -- as i tell my few friends, 'I don't do personal...'

they have learned that it is pretty difficult to get at me thru my mind, also , despite sleep deprivation stuff -- i think i'm doing OK on the astral planes when out of my body at night -- i am blocked from remembering, but sometimes i meet people who remember me from their astral travels, & i seem to be able to help others

so now they are having fun playing around w/my 3D Human body -- a body designed by the Creator to enjoy this planet, meant to be a paradise, thru many senses -- it's kind of like torture at times -

i think i'd posted this on one of Exomatrix' threads -- Elaine Douglass said she thinks all the broke/sick/alone stuff is to wear us down to the point where we lose resistance/believe that they are here to help us & begin promoting their agenda --'All ETs are benevolent'/ 'The Greys are here to help us'/etc

i added -- those they can't wear down, they try to break -- those they can't break, they try to kill

carry on the Good Fight, sis

wyn









When I first decided to post about my ET abduction experiences back in May, I did so with great trepidation. A programming kept telling me that if i disclosed my story, I would suffer a far worse fate. I'm quite certain all abductees are programmed with one program or another. My programmings have varied. I imagine this probably means that I've been abducted by different ET species. Ultimately, I don't know. I do remember being completely elated after my abudction when I was 25, feeling that something miraculous had happened to me since they told me that only the special ones are chosen! And the programming worked back then. The more recent programmings have had to do with fear.

So, in spite of the consternation I felt, i decided to post my first story back on page 37 of this thread. After that post, i received much encouragement, love, understanding, compassion and validation in the thread itself and in PMs. These reactions gave me the courage to post more and more stories, and finally, I feel that a healing can be perceived. I have moved from my state of paralysis. I do not feel helpless anymore.

If, on the other hand, the reactions to my initial story had been to tell me to "get over it and f'n' move on", I would have become further petrified; I would never have posted again; I would have felt lost in a lost world where no one cares.

While enabling a victim mentality is absolutely not helpful, compassion is a necessity when dealing with someone who doesn't have the strength to move on by their own volition. Eventually, if compassion, understanding, validation, encouragement and love don't work, then it might be time for the proverbial kick in the derriere, but the kick should not be delivered unless the other options have proven to be powerless.

[Beren]

Here we witness again how these subtle ,yet powerful forces work.
Energies that we call Archontic are twisting their weaves in one aim; to take energy out of innocent unaware soul.

I wasn`t participating in this thread since long time ago (Houman knows why :) ) but I notice the divisive spirits.
Let them stop now.
Let us stop their game.

I am dead serious if you will.
This is a repeating pattern even from old Avalon with energy battle and sucking threads such were Abraxasinas ones about Dragon lore and their own perspective.

It`s the same spirit behind all this, spirit of fear and darkness.
But fear not dear souls, a tiny candle lightens and banishes the thickest darkness!

And we have here not a candle but a blazing fire!
It`s in our decision to do good ,to love ,to be Love.
Again:
1.To do good
2.To love
3.To BE Love

There is a reason why I punctuated big or small letters here.

Time to finally say out loud: YOU ARE BUSTED!
We see you.
We know who you are.

And we will give you the highest dose of what you`ve been leeching for. You wanted to leech soul`s energy to sustain yourselves in darkness still?
Yes?
Well why didn`t you say so right out loud???

Here`s the full blown light of Creator and Christ and you know what that means right? Or should I remind you of the fact that you cannot hide anymore in the darkness?


I call all souls here to join in harmony and reveal the inner light they all have , their inner spark of God.
We may save some souls now.

Shine!

[Jeffrey]

Alex Grey and the Mind Parasites

http://ia700700.us.archive.org/7/items/AlexGreyAndTheMindParasites_321/alexgreyandmindparasites.mp3

Listen to the MP3, its pretty interesting (a tad vulgar in some descriptions, apologies in advance).

Here's an excerpt:




I had a vision of the group soul of humanity as a perfectly circular pool of intense living light. All around the rim of the milky pool were a complex variety of sexual rites, a metaphor for all social interaction. Translucent Hindu deities swooped over the group taking the excessive energy of the shimmering pool and passing through the group as ecstasy and pain. I saw that the reason we were all brought together was to provide a psychic energy feast for the Gods and Goddesses. I saw my heart as the axis of karmic, earthly, and universal energies, transected by and uniting the polarities of male/female, birth/death, good/evil, and love/hate. To maintain a balance of forces we all fed both Deities and Demons.

I think that these energy complexes can be animated and seem conscious (intention/agenticity/freewill) by interacting with electromagnetic fields as well, which ties into thought (it doesn't completely account for it but it owns a variable).

This experience that is shared of deities drinking from a pool of energetic milk reflects the energetic transactions that occur between two systems that have a differential when it comes to energy. They are just systems though, with a program.

I think these transactions follow the same laws as the thermodynamic principles, but by our subjective mind these creatures are seen - snakes projected on ropes.

Predators manifest, but this was intended to be a survival mechanism, I think it got out of hand when it's potential for control was exploited and the knowledge of what it truly is was replaced by what they wanted you to believe it was. Their function was exploited by power hungry individuals and used to manipulate the masses.

What say you?

[wynderer]

i say that the translucent Hindu deities [aka archons?] have no right to be feeding on the Humans, & that their sexual rites are likely a part of the blood/sex rituals described/depicted in this thread

[observer]

Alex Grey and the Mind Parasites

http://ia700700.us.archive.org/7/items/AlexGreyAndTheMindParasites_321/alexgreyandmindparasites.mp3

Listen to the MP3, its pretty interesting (a tad vulgar in some descriptions, apologies in advance).

[....snip]



Thank you Vivek for posting this interview.

At about 10 min. into this interview, there is a reading of The (First) Apocalypse of James (http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/1ja.html) from the Nag Hammadi Library. In an earlier comment, in this thread, I linked the text to this document in support of the comments I've been making, herein.

One may go to the link and read the entire document, if one is so inclined.

An overview of the above linked interview discussing the work of Alex Grey (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9P-rrVZDKA)is very revealing in understanding how these archonic energies are co-existing, just outside of our perceptions, attaching themselves to our auras (visible spiritual beings [souls]), and feeding on all sorts of energies.

What Alex Grey is describing in his work is a very good example of why the Astral is NOT a playground. Indigenous Cultures required a lifetime of preparation for the 'chosen' individuals whose jobs were to go into the Astral on behalf of the tribe.

[heyokah]

Alex Grey and the Mind Parasites


Listen to the MP3, its pretty interesting (a tad vulgar in some descriptions, apologies in advance).

Here's an excerpt:




I had a vision of the group soul of humanity as a perfectly circular pool of intense living light. All around the rim of the milky pool were a complex variety of sexual rites, a metaphor for all social interaction. Translucent Hindu deities swooped over the group taking the excessive energy of the shimmering pool and passing through the group as ecstasy and pain. I saw that the reason we were all brought together was to provide a psychic energy feast for the Gods and Goddesses. I saw my heart as the axis of karmic, earthly, and universal energies, transected by and uniting the polarities of male/female, birth/death, good/evil, and love/hate. To maintain a balance of forces we all fed both Deities and Demons.

I think that these energy complexes can be animated and seem conscious (intention/agenticity/freewill) by interacting with electromagnetic fields as well, which ties into thought (it doesn't completely account for it but it owns a variable).

This experience that is shared of deities drinking from a pool of energetic milk reflects the energetic transactions that occur between two systems that have a differential when it comes to energy. They are just systems though, with a program.

I think these transactions follow the same laws as the thermodynamic principles, but by our subjective mind these creatures are seen - snakes projected on ropes.

Predators manifest, but this was intended to be a survival mechanism, I think it got out of hand when it's potential for control was exploited and the knowledge of what it truly is was replaced by what they wanted you to believe it was. Their function was exploited by power hungry individuals and used to manipulate the masses.

What say you?

Thank you for this MP3 Vivek.

For members working from an iPad or iPod, here is a link that works and the painting that was talked about.



http://i48.tinypic.com/302q61f.jpg



http://www.zaporacle.com/alex-grey-and-mind-parasites/





Thank you Vivek for posting this interview.

At about 10 min. into this interview, there is a reading of The (First) Apocalypse of James (http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/1ja.html) from the Nag Hammadi Library. In an earlier comment, in this thread, I linked the text to this document in support of the comments I've been making, herein.

One may go to the link and read the entire document, if one is so inclined.

An overview of the above linked interview discussing the work of Alex Grey (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9P-rrVZDKA)is very revealing in understanding how these archonic energies are co-existing, just outside of our perceptions, attaching themselves to our auras (visible spiritual beings [souls]), and feeding on all sorts of energies.

What Alex Grey is describing in his work is a very good example of why the Astral is NOT a playground. Indigenous Cultures required a lifetime of preparation for the 'chosen' individuals whose jobs were to go into the Astral on behalf of the tribe.

Thank you observer for pointing at the Gnostic text.

Here's an other excerpt:

An Ancient Gnostic Text on Parasitic Abduction

The power of this image is that it shows those who harvest our energy, and yet at the center of the image is the human empowerment that occurs as we awaken to the food chain. The ancient Gnostics had similar visions and called the harvesting deities the “Archons” (see: A Gnostic View of Mind Parasites). Also, notice how closely the scenario described below parallels a modern alien abduction experience.

(The following ancient Gnostic text is excerpted from the superb metahistory.org website. Here’s the link to the full article http://www.metahistory.org/GnosticCatechism.php)


From The First Apocalypse of James (NHC V, 3), a revelation dialogue in which an unnamed teacher (the “Lord” or “Master”) confers secret knowledge upon a Gnostic named James:

The Master said: James, behold, I shall reveal to you the path of your redemption. Whenever you are seized and you undergo death-pangs (mortal fear), a multitude of Archons may turn on you, thinking they can capture you. And in particular, three of them will seize you, those who pose as toll collectors. Not only do they demand toll, but they take away souls by theft.

Now, when you come under their power, one of them who is the overseer will say to you: “Who are you, and where are you from?”

You are then to say to him, “I am a child of humanity and I am from the Source.”

He will then say to you, “What sort of child are you, and to what Source do you belong?”

You are to say to him, “I am from the pre-existent Source, and I am the offspring of the Source.”

Then he will say to you, “Why were you sent out from the Source?”

Then you are to say to him, “I came from the Pre-existent One so that I might behold those of my kind and those who are alien.”

And he will say to you, “What are these alien beings?”

You are to say to him: “They are not entirely alien, for they are from the Fallen Sophia (Achamoth), the female divinity who produced them when she brought the human race down from the Source, the realm of the Pre-Existent One. So they are not entirely alien, but they are our kin. They are indeed so because she who is their matrix, Sophia Achamoth, is from the Source. At the same time they are alien because Sophia did not combine with her like in the Source (her divine male counterpart), when she produced them.”

When he also says to you, “Where will you go now?”

You are to say to him, “To the place when I came, the Source, there shall I return.” And if you respond in this manner, you will escape their attacks.

(NHC V, 3. 33 – 34: 1- 25. Translation from NHLE 1990, pp. 265-6 and Kurt Rudolf, Gnosis, p. 174-5.)

What I find amazing is that Alex, in creating this painting, has followed the instructions of the unnamed Gnostic teacher to perfection. The image shows that which is human and alien. It also shows that man is from the source and at the center. This is the secret of our transcendence of the food chain according to the Gnostics. The Archons are masters of deception who manipulate by encouraging us to give away our power to external saviors and authorities. We become like the living dead when they succeed, like Tolkien’s Ring Wraiths—-withered, obsessed beings forever craving but unable to reach “The Precious,” which could take the form of an object or person of desire, or a fanatic ideology/fundamentalist religion that enslaves us to its version of salvation. When the deceivers succeed we get, for example, possessed suicide bombers hungry for death and their seventy-two virgins in paradise. The way out of this deceptive matrix is the recognition that we are of the source, of the source of nourishment. An incompleteness is revealed in the Archons because they must depend on us for their derivative nourishment. Clearly Alex was brought out from the source to behold such things and share with us his revelations.

[wynderer]

thanks for this, Heyokah, tho i'm not so sure of blaming it all on Sophia -- sometimes it seems to me that both the Gnostics & the Church -- esp the Catholic Church for many centuries -- have something in common, which is a great suspicion & distrust of the physical body & thus 'matter/the material'

[Bill Ryan]

Don't take this the wrong way, I appreciate the sharing, but I kind of have a problem with people walking around thinking they are superior to the rest of us for any reason, reptilian or otherwise, and I think many people probably think the same thing. I don't like it. I don't think it is appropriate for this forum.

ED209, thanks for your thoughts and feelings, which I respect. It's an important topic that you raise.

I've studied these subjects for quite a long time. There are tens of thousands of people on the planet -- and a lot of them gravitate to forums like this! -- who in one way or another perceive themselves as "different".

There are many ways in which this feeling of "difference" manifests. In my experience, none of the people I have met and talked with (and there are many!) consider themselves "superior".

Rather, they're trying to put a puzzle together, and this often involves retrieving suppressed memories which are often disturbing or even traumatic. The issue becomes even harder to deal with when they feel that there is a danger of rejection or ridicule if they share their thoughts and feelings with others.

For this reason, I am committed to creating a safe space on Avalon for people to share their experiences. Sometimes, someone may have a piece of another person's puzzle. This is one of the great values of open, non-judgmental dialog.

The issues of hybrids and clones is just one of many. If you've not read it, here's Dr David Jacobs' book THE THREAT.

http://projectavalon.net/David_Jacobs_The_Threat.pdf

For anyone concerned with these and similar issues, this is mandatory reading.

Here are some more related issues -- which I've personally experienced in conversation with others:


Those who have worked in black projects.
Those who were Illuminati children.
Those who have suffered sexual or emotional abuse at their hands of their family.
Those who have been abducted by ETs or the military for unknown purposes.
Those who have vivid past-life memories of things that they do not understand.
Those who have had very real close encounters with entities or beings that were terrifying and bewildering.

There are quite a few more out there, also. Some of these categories are multiply inter-related.

Having experienced these things is no fun. It makes a mess of one's life. It makes relationships difficult (and sometimes this is an understatement). It makes one feel one is an outcast, or that there is something wrong with oneself -- far from feeling superior! One can harbor deep feelings of guilt or shame which are really hard to dispel as all the circumstances involved are simply not known.

This is an important statement. I'm going to copy this to the Horus-Ra thread as well. ED209, sincere thanks to you again for your post and for your contribution to the discussion. It gives me the opportunity to explain this more clearly, and for the benefit of all.

This is something I feel strongly about, and I will provide a safe space for these things to be discussed here.





[This post is copied from wynderer's The Hybrids & Clones Amongst Us (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?44415-The-Hybrids-Clones-Amongst-Us), which is a similarly important thread, containing material which may be related to that explored here. Many reading this will understand why I made the decision to re-post it.]

[heyokah]

thanks for this, Heyokah, tho i'm not so sure of blaming it all on Sophia -- sometimes it seems to me that both the Gnostics & the Church -- esp the Catholic Church for many centuries -- have something in common, which is a great suspicion & distrust of the physical body & thus 'matter/the material'

I agree with you in case of the Catholic Church

However I like John Lamb Lash's Gnostic take on the Sophia Myth.



nSBcEkIwpSk


Cbd53dbCXQE

Never mind the coughing ;-)



http://www.metahistory.org/siteauthor.php

[RunningDeer]

Here are some more related issues -- which I've personally experienced in conversation with others:


Those who have worked in black projects.
Those who were Illuminati children.
Those who have suffered sexual or emotional abuse at their hands of their family.
Those who have been abducted by ETs or the military for unknown purposes.
Those who have vivid past-life memories of things that they do not understand.
Those who have had very real close encounters with entities or beings that were terrifying and bewildering.

There are quite a few more out there, also. Some of these categories are multiply inter-related.

Having experienced these things is no fun. It makes a mess of one's life. It makes relationships difficult (and sometimes this is an understatement). It makes one feel one is an outcast, or that there is something wrong with oneself -- far from feeling superior! One can harbor deep feelings of guilt or shame which are really hard to dispel as all the circumstances involved are simply not known.

This is something I feel strongly about, and I will provide a safe space for these things to be discussed here.

Over the last couple of weeks of personal research and some post on this thread, some memories surfaced. It's putting to rest my young gut said one thing while being told another. One thing is for sure, I was raised with archon energies that worked through my father. It’s clear why I spent much time in nature.

A safe place is critical for those that are ready. (She's aware that this last sentence is in a 3rd person voice and in stealth mode. :wave:)

[Daughter of Time]

Wyn,

Your perception is absolutely correct in as much as they get me through the heart. Since I cannot and will not build a wall around my heart because I feel that would be denying who I am, I have been trying to create a psychic filter to discern which emotions are manipulated by them. I have been successful only to small degree, but as you say, I will keep fighting the good fight.

You mentioned you'd like to share some information with me on how you managed to stop panic attacks. Although I do not suffer from panic attacks (my mother does and I'd like to help her since she's also been a target all her life) I suffer from other things that your methods might be helpful in correcting. If this information is not too personal, then perhaps you might want to share it here, publicly, so that others may learn from it as well. If it is highly personal, then please PM me. Thank you.

DoT

[Finefeather]

removed to avoid controversy

[wynderer]

it's when the lower astral beings get technology w/which they can intrude into 3D when things get hairy -- a whole new ball game going on down here now

edit to add: like, they don't have to use ships for abductions anymore [the light coming down from above that i desperately tried to hide from/run from as a child] -- now they can just open a portal in your bedroom & take you that way




What Alex Grey is describing in his work is a very good example of why the Astral is NOT a playground. Indigenous Cultures required a lifetime of preparation for the 'chosen' individuals whose jobs were to go into the Astral on behalf of the tribe.
Hi observer
It is necessary for us NOT to believe that the 'Astral' is all dark and filled with harmful entities. The astral plane is actually a bridge between the true self and the human consciousness and has layers, or densities. The lower 3 layers are where the dark entities operate as it it there where we generate our negative emotional energy which they feed off. From this lower astral they are able to shift in and out of physical reality. I have worked in the astral for around 40 years doing rescue work and have never come across any dark entities in the higher astral planes. In fact there are many beautiful beings that inhabit these higher astral levels as they do their work. The higher astral is also the area where most human souls live in between incarnations. There are large groups of souls who live together in these realms and there are beautiful buildings and places to learn there as well.
Everyone, during the sleep state, passes through these lower astral realms without even knowing it, on our journey to the higher astral.
But the message is clear, if you are not protected and have issues in your life you should avoid these lower astral realms, they can be very frightening at best.

[Finefeather]

Hi wynderer
Yes that is true, but we need to attempt to bring some balance into the equation of our demise. In bringing light to the table, so to speak, we can obtain the knowledge of what else is out there, which we can strive for. All of life is not 'dirty and bad' and in fact I see many out there giving love and compassion to each other.
Where we focus our life is where our reality is and more than often it is enough just to take a good long hard look at ourself, if we allow ourself in.


it's when the lower astral beings get technology w/which they can intrude into 3D when things get hairy -- a whole new ball game going on down here now




What Alex Grey is describing in his work is a very good example of why the Astral is NOT a playground. Indigenous Cultures required a lifetime of preparation for the 'chosen' individuals whose jobs were to go into the Astral on behalf of the tribe.
Hi observer
It is necessary for us NOT to believe that the 'Astral' is all dark and filled with harmful entities. The astral plane is actually a bridge between the true self and the human consciousness and has layers, or densities. The lower 3 layers are where the dark entities operate as it it there where we generate our negative emotional energy which they feed off. From this lower astral they are able to shift in and out of physical reality. I have worked in the astral for around 40 years doing rescue work and have never come across any dark entities in the higher astral planes. In fact there are many beautiful beings that inhabit these higher astral levels as they do their work. The higher astral is also the area where most human souls live in between incarnations. There are large groups of souls who live together in these realms and there are beautiful buildings and places to learn there as well.
Everyone, during the sleep state, passes through these lower astral realms without even knowing it, on our journey to the higher astral.
But the message is clear, if you are not protected and have issues in your life you should avoid these lower astral realms, they can be very frightening at best.

[wynderer]

Finefeather, have you read thru this thread yet?


Hi wynderer
Yes that is true, but we need to attempt to bring some balance into the equation of our demise. In bringing light to the table, so to speak, we can obtain the knowledge of what else is out there, which we can strive for. All of life is not 'dirty and bad' and in fact I see many out there giving love and compassion to each other.
Where we focus our life is where our reality is and more than often it is enough just to take a good long hard look at ourself, if we allow ourself in.


it's when the lower astral beings get technology w/which they can intrude into 3D when things get hairy -- a whole new ball game going on down here now




What Alex Grey is describing in his work is a very good example of why the Astral is NOT a playground. Indigenous Cultures required a lifetime of preparation for the 'chosen' individuals whose jobs were to go into the Astral on behalf of the tribe.
Hi observer
It is necessary for us NOT to believe that the 'Astral' is all dark and filled with harmful entities. The astral plane is actually a bridge between the true self and the human consciousness and has layers, or densities. The lower 3 layers are where the dark entities operate as it it there where we generate our negative emotional energy which they feed off. From this lower astral they are able to shift in and out of physical reality. I have worked in the astral for around 40 years doing rescue work and have never come across any dark entities in the higher astral planes. In fact there are many beautiful beings that inhabit these higher astral levels as they do their work. The higher astral is also the area where most human souls live in between incarnations. There are large groups of souls who live together in these realms and there are beautiful buildings and places to learn there as well.
Everyone, during the sleep state, passes through these lower astral realms without even knowing it, on our journey to the higher astral.
But the message is clear, if you are not protected and have issues in your life you should avoid these lower astral realms, they can be very frightening at best.

[Finefeather]

Finefeather, have you read thru this thread yet?
Yes, I have read most of it, stopped posting for about 10 days as I went away, ... Why?...have I done something wrong? :)

[donk]

Ok, I'm kinda caught up now...(again...and again...) many thanks to everyone who contributed, like I think DoT said of just1's posts, I learned something from nearly every one.

Also, when I say caught up, I mean from somewhere around 50 to here, and am around page 3 trying to get all the missed stuff in. I'm assuming from wyn's comments, that it either hasn't been addressed or no one has pointed recently to where it has been:

What of the non-internal factors being acknowledged in many posts?

It was nice to see so many people mentioning how hard it is for people with no frame of reference and limited knowledge to even know that they are a victim, that was what was so frustrating about the recent drama, it seemed that unless you fixed yourself you are effed, and it is all your fault.

I have someone in my life trying to learn/grow/transcend victimhood after 30+ years of living as a victim. She has a good heart, and learned to sweep everything under the rug, repress unpleasantness, feel shame about everything that shes been taught by "authority"--fam/friends supposed to love her--that they think is wrong.

She found me, and for a year & half we have worked so hard and she has gotten so far in growing, loving herself, recognizing truth = love, and so So much more. In fact, I believe she got to a point where whatever beside her trauma & herself that has a hold of her, that feeds off her unique and intense energy, has physically attacked her.

She has been dizzy for almost two weeks now, ever since she started blacking out when we started talking about possible explanations to supernatural experiences she has been having.

I don't know about technology (though she recently mentioned vision/dreams/experience of little machines floating around our bed like I've heard abductees--Karla turner & indigo star come to mind), the offset of what she has been initially diagnosed as labyrnthitis came on after 4 fainting spells, each brought on by conversations of "truth", each leaving her out of breath and erasing any memories up til about 15 mins before the first one.

And it could be technology, but it appeared to me as a possession. The third time she opened her eyes, I looked in her face, it was not her. The fourth time she convulsed in a way that looked like something jumped in, and the open eyes (she did not look like demon or anything, just like she was not in there) looked at me longer, and I stopped talking about anything at that point and she's had extreme vertigo ever since.

So to my point (finally!), this seems to be the nature of archons, correct? They take & use bodies and/or energies without current (if she agreed to anything in past life, she's ready to opt out at this point) permission, and attempt to hide it. The archontic forces are probably using the ET/EDs (if they exist) or at least her mind...am I making sense?

So trying to get to topic: there is so much discussion on clearing yourself, removing the baggage, etc. work that you have to do to yourself--my question is how dangerous is it for someone external (me) trying (gently) different methods of getting the information to her that are clearly without a doubt being externally blocked?

I recognize she has to get her own blocks down, but how can she do without help? Where does the line of helping and imposing your get crossed? How much damage can you do, when you don't even know what you're dealing with?

[wynderer]

LOL -- sorry if i come across that way --



Finefeather, have you read thru this thread yet?
Yes, I have read most of it, stopped posting for about 10 days as I went away, ... Why?...have I done something wrong? :)

[wynderer]

i'm just thinking about the abductee who Elaine Douglass told me about -- by the Greys -- who woke up one morning w/over 300 [photographed] tiny razor-like cuts all over her body -- the poor woman has to work 2 jobs to make ends meet already


Ok, I'm kinda caught up now...(again...and again...) many thanks to everyone who contributed, like I think DoT said of just1's posts, I learned something from nearly every one.

Also, when I say caught up, I mean from somewhere around 50 to here, and am around page 3 trying to get all the missed stuff in. I'm assuming from wyn's comments, that it either hasn't been addressed or no one has pointed recently to where it has been:

What of the non-internal factors being acknowledged in many posts?

It was nice to see so many people mentioning how hard it is for people with no frame of reference and limited knowledge to even know that they are a victim, that was what was so frustrating about the recent drama, it seemed that unless you fixed yourself you are effed, and it is all your fault.

I have someone in my life trying to learn/grow/transcend victimhood after 30+ years of living as a victim. She has a good heart, and learned to sweep everything under the rug, repress unpleasantness, feel shame about everything that shes been taught by "authority"--fam/friends supposed to love her--that they think is wrong.

She found me, and for a year & half we have worked so hard and she has gotten so far in growing, loving herself, recognizing truth = love, and so So much more. In fact, I believe she got to a point where whatever beside her trauma & herself that has a hold of her, that feeds off her unique and intense energy, has physically attacked her.

She has been dizzy for almost two weeks now, ever since she started blacking out when we started talking about possible explanations to supernatural experiences she has been having.

I don't know about technology (though she recently mentioned vision/dreams/experience of little machines floating around our bed like I've heard abductees--Karla turner & indigo star come to mind), the offset of what she has been initially diagnosed as labyrnthitis came on after 4 fainting spells, each brought on by conversations of "truth", each leaving her out of breath and erasing any memories up til about 15 mins before the first one.

And it could be technology, but it appeared to me as a possession. The third time she opened her eyes, I looked in her face, it was not her. The fourth time she convulsed in a way that looked like something jumped in, and the open eyes (she did not look like demon or anything, just like she was not in there) looked at me longer, and I stopped talking about anything at that point and she's had extreme vertigo ever since.

So to my point (finally!), this seems to be the nature of archons, correct? They take & use bodies and/or energies without current (if she agreed to anything in past life, she's ready to opt out at this point) permission, and attempt to hide it. The archontic forces are probably using the ET/EDs (if they exist) or at least her mind...am I making sense?

So trying to get to topic: there is so much discussion on clearing yourself, removing the baggage, etc. work that you have to do to yourself--my question is how dangerous is it for someone external (me) trying (gently) different methods of getting the information to her that are clearly without a doubt being externally blocked?

I recognize she has to get her own blocks down, but how can she do without help? Where does the line of helping and imposing your get crossed? How much damage can you do, when you don't even know what you're dealing with?

[Hervé]

[...]

So trying to get to topic: there is so much discussion on clearing yourself, removing the baggage, etc. work that you have to do to yourself--my question is how dangerous is it for someone external (me) trying (gently) different methods of getting the information to her that are clearly without a doubt being externally blocked?

I recognize she has to get her own blocks down, but how can she do without help? Where does the line of helping and imposing your get crossed? How much damage can you do, when you don't even know what you're dealing with?

Hi donk,

I would refer you to post # 1675 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?40941-Horus-Ra-as-the-Archontic-Alien-Parasite-A-follow-up-interview-with-Maarit&p=539552&viewfull=1#post539552).

[observer]

Click-on forwarding arrow to see Finefeather's comment #1895

I'm going to take a break from a policy I try to strictly adhere regarding telepathically implanted thoughts, Finefeather, to give the members who are insisting this Astral is a wonderful place to play, a look into why I have formulated this point of view, and how this interpretation relates to the topic of this thread.

In the very early 60s I became a subscriber to Edgar Cayce's work. Up into the early nineties, through those many years, I was a subscriber to a multitude of channelers, mystics, seers, remote viewers, and whatever other names you wish to apply to this phenomenon. After I became disillusioned with the channeled message, I began looking for objective evidence.

Among all the channelers I've ever studied, there were only three that I ever thought their message was unaffected by the reptilian/archonic influence. I based this interpretation on the nature of what these three were revealing regarding the reptilian/archonic influence on Humanity. I first learned about the reptilian influence in the mid seventies from one of these 'channelers'. Had there been an archonic influence involved with these three, the message they were revealing would never have come through.

Over nearly thirty years of reading every sort of telepathically implanted thought, presented by, well into a hundred different seers, I observed a reoccurring theme. This theme was not new to the clairvoyant phenomenon.

I am also somewhat a student of history. I noticed this same reoccurring theme goes all the way back to the Dawn of Man. This theme can be found in the words of the prophets of antiquity. It can be found in the religious dogma of the past two thousand years. It is ever present in the New Age message with its roots in the Astral.

This theme, to which I refer, is the concept that "there will be a bright new day" if only one stays focused on the 'god' of whatever dogma is being promoted. This reoccurring theme, throughout history, is what I characterize as "objective evidence".

Please note: when I use the term 'god', I am also referring to the contemporary concept that, "we are all creator-beings of our own reality", found within the dogma of the contemporary edition of this "everything is going to be O.K." telepathically implanted rhetoric.

There is absolutely no objective evidence, that can be presented by those supporting these concepts, to prove their subjective interpretations of the very personal experiences they are having are NOT being influenced by archonic entities.

Where are your thousands of years of prophetic documents.... documents that have all turned-out to be lies? How many thousands of predictions and messages of hope coming from these seers have never occurred, all the way back into antiquity?

Please refer to what I said in comment #1887:


"Indigenous Cultures required a lifetime of preparation for the 'chosen' individuals whose jobs were to go into the Astral on behalf of the tribe."

I'm aware of the word games that are played by supporters of these concepts, so don't bother with your "objective v. subjective" wordplay. It won't work.

I've already described the sort of objective evidence I'm referring to. Supporters of the types of telepathically implanted messages I've already described can offer no documents, photographs, or witnesses to their very personal experiences. This is the sort of objective evidence one needs to produce for their experiences to move from subjective imagination to objective reality.

So, Finefeather, as I stated in the beginning of this comment, I'm going to take a break from a policy, and offer you something I ran across back in the early 90s, just as my faith in the many seers I had been subscribing to was crumbling. This work came from one of those three 'channelers' I referred to earlier. I was fortunate to find a copy of this book on the internet:

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vida_alien/warinheaven/warheaven-III.htm

It's a relatively easy read, and one can get through it in a week of evenings.

As I've stated many times on this forum, I do not subscribe to telepathically implanted thoughts. The content of the above linked book is derived from telepathically implanted thoughts. One will find the content of this book much different from the material coming from most clairvoyants from throughout history.

Could there be something to the observation that the astral is being patrolled by archonic entities whose purpose is to confuse and trap the Mass of Humanity?

You be the judge.

It is not my intention, Finefeather, of starting a debate with you, in this thread, over the issue of good v. evil with regard to telepathic thoughts and your personal experiences in the astral. This thread is about archonic energies and the Abject Evil they represent. The comments I make are presentations of an evidential trail related to that particular influence.

There are other threads where you can debate the merits of your telepathically implanted interpretation.

[wynderer]

from Observer's post below:

'Could there be something to the observation that the astral is being patrolled by archonic entities whose purpose is to confuse and trap the Mass of Humanity?'

this is the conclusion i've come to -- many threads on the forum address the actions of the NWO in this 3D world , but it's the control of the astral planes & thus Human minds & emotions that is the heart of their power, imo -- & the controllers are not stupid -- they know that Humans like to feel good, & comfy, & warm & safe, & they provide the telepathic input to stimulate such thoughts & feelings

& this has been going on for thousands of years

i've always thought that one of their better tools is what most of us parents say to our child when he or she wakes screaming from an encounter w/some nasty astral being when out of body -- the stock soothing response is almost always, 'It was just a dream' -- when it was not a dream, but a good look at one of the puppet masters pulling the strings, or one of their minions

thanks for the link to the book, Observer -- i read references to it thru the yrs but never came across it before



Click-on forwarding arrow to see Finefeather's comment #1895

I'm going to take a break from a policy I try to strictly adhere regarding telepathically implanted thoughts, Finefeather, to give the members who are insisting this Astral is a wonderful place to play, a look into why I have formulated this point of view, and how this interpretation relates to the topic of this thread.

In the very early 60s I became a subscriber to Edgar Cayce's work. Up into the early nineties, through those many years, I was a subscriber to a multitude of channelers, mystics, seers, remote viewers, and whatever other names you wish to apply to this phenomenon. After I became disillusioned with the channeled message, I began looking for objective evidence.

Among all the channelers I've ever studied, there were only three that I ever thought their message was unaffected by the reptilian/archonic influence. I based this interpretation on the nature of what these three were revealing regarding the reptilian/archonic influence on Humanity. I first learned about the reptilian influence in the mid seventies from one of these 'channelers'. Had there been an archonic influence involved with these three, the message they were revealing would never have come through.

Over nearly thirty years of reading every sort of telepathically implanted thought, presented by, well into a hundred different seers, I observed a reoccurring theme. This theme was not new to the clairvoyant phenomenon.

I am also somewhat a student of history. I noticed this same reoccurring theme goes all the way back to the Dawn of Man. This theme can be found in the words of the prophets of antiquity. It can be found in the religious dogma of the past two thousand years. It is ever present in the New Age message with its roots in the Astral.

This theme, to which I refer, is the concept that "there will be a bright new day" if only one stays focused on the 'god' of whatever dogma is being promoted. This reoccurring theme, throughout history, is what I characterize as "objective evidence".

Please note: when I use the term 'god', I am also referring to the contemporary concept that, "we are all creator-beings of our own reality", found within the dogma of the contemporary edition of this "everything is going to be O.K." telepathically implanted rhetoric.

There is absolutely no objective evidence, that can be presented by those supporting these concepts, to prove their subjective interpretations of the very personal experiences they are having are NOT being influenced by archonic entities.

Where are your thousands of years of prophetic documents.... documents that have all turned-out to be lies? How many thousands of predictions and messages of hope coming from these seers have never occurred, all the way back into antiquity?

Please refer to what I said in comment #1887:


"Indigenous Cultures required a lifetime of preparation for the 'chosen' individuals whose jobs were to go into the Astral on behalf of the tribe."

I'm aware of the word games that are played by supporters of these concepts, so don't bother with your "objective v. subjective" wordplay. It won't work.

I've already described the sort of objective evidence I'm referring to. Supporters of the types of telepathically implanted messages I've already described can offer no documents, photographs, or witnesses to their very personal experiences. This is the sort of objective evidence one needs to produce for their experiences to move from subjective imagination to objective reality.

So, Finefeather, as I stated in the beginning of this comment, I'm going to take a break from a policy, and offer you something I ran across back in the early 90s, just as my faith in the many seers I had been subscribing to was crumbling. This work came from one of those three 'channelers' I referred to earlier. I was fortunate to find a copy of this book on the internet:

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vida_alien/warinheaven/warheaven-III.htm

It's a relatively easy read, and one can get through it in a week of evenings.

As I've stated many times on this forum, I do not subscribe to telepathically implanted thoughts. The content of the above linked book is derived from telepathically implanted thoughts. One will find the content of this book much different from the material coming from most clairvoyants from throughout history.

Could there be something to the observation that the astral is being patrolled by archonic entities whose purpose is to confuse and trap the Mass of Humanity?

You be the judge.

It is not my intention, Finefeather, of starting a debate with you, in this thread, over the issue of good v. evil with regard to telepathic thoughts and your personal experiences in the astral. This thread is about archonic energies and the Abject Evil they represent. The comments I make are presentations of an evidential trail related to that particular influence.

There are other threads where you can debate the merits of your telepathically implanted interpretation.

[donk]

I would refer you to post # 1675.

Ah...the oft mentioned "dreamtime healing" vids, knew I wasn't getting away from that one--but I had that filed away for when I found some new earbuds, been w/o video for a week or so (I got the shakes!!)...motivation to get on that.

Thank you very much amer zo!!

Any reading I can do while waiting for her to finish MRI?

....speaking of which, anybody ever catch anything (implants?) in a regular brain MRI?

They are trying to rule out MS, which I know nothing about...so doing "contrast", though not sure what that means. All I know is that whatever is physically wrong, whether dormant or placed at that instant, it triggered directly from receiving information, some external force trying to stop it. How do you tell a doctor that??

[Hervé]

I would refer you to post # 1675.

[...]

Any reading I can do while waiting for her to finish MRI?

....speaking of which, anybody ever catch anything (implants?) in a regular brain MRI?

[...]

Welcome!

You can always read the interview transcripts (from post # 1716 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?40941-Horus-Ra-as-the-Archontic-Alien-Parasite-A-follow-up-interview-with-Maarit&p=540172&viewfull=1#post540172)):

Download MP3s:
Part 1 (http://www.divshare.com/direct/18152999-ed7.mp3) (right click and ‘Save As’ to download)
Part 2 (http://www.divshare.com/direct/18153032-794.mp3) (right click and ‘Save As’ to download)

Full Transcript -Dreamtime Healing-Hour 1-PDF (http://www.divshare.com/direct/18378351-441.pdf) (right click + "Save as")
Full Transcript -Dreamtime Healing-Hour 2-PDF (http://www.divshare.com/direct/18378353-77a.pdf) (right click + "Save as")

That's for the first interview, I do not know if there are transcripts for the second interview.

You can also read everything on Steve Richards' website: http://www.holographickinetics.net/default.html (http://www.holographickinetics.net/default.html)


As for MRI and implants, the one I know of is Duncan O' Finioan: http://duncanofinioan.wordpress.com/ (http://duncanofinioan.wordpress.com/)

[Finefeather]

removed to avoid controversy

[wynderer]

hi Finefeather --

when you leave your body, aka die, this time around, are you planning to stay in the astral planes?

before my 3rd Eye chakra was heavily implanted [ & i put up quite a fight!] , i was able to both leave my body, & remember where i went -- sometimes it was way outside/above Earth, 3D Earth, & the astral planes surrounding her

from this viewpoint, the astral planes near Earth sure look like a pen for your minds, the way 3D Earth is a pen/cage/matrix for your bodies

i've always felt/thought that truth was more important than maintaining happy feelings -- your controllers know how to create happy feelings in you when you are in the astral planes --






Click-on forwarding arrow to see Finefeather's comment #1895

I'm going to take a break from a policy I try to strictly adhere regarding telepathically implanted thoughts, Finefeather, to give the members who are insisting this Astral is a wonderful place to play, a look into why I have formulated this point of view, and how this interpretation relates to the topic of this thread.

In the very early 60s I became a subscriber to Edgar Cayce's work. Up into the early nineties, through those many years, I was a subscriber to a multitude of channelers, mystics, seers, remote viewers, and whatever other names you wish to apply to this phenomenon. After I became disillusioned with the channeled message, I began looking for objective evidence.

Among all the channelers I've ever studied, there were only three that I ever thought their message was unaffected by the reptilian/archonic influence. I based this interpretation on the nature of what these three were revealing regarding the reptilian/archonic influence on Humanity. I first learned about the reptilian influence in the mid seventies from one of these 'channelers'. Had there been an archonic influence involved with these three, the message they were revealing would never have come through.

Over nearly thirty years of reading every sort of telepathically implanted thought, presented by, well into a hundred different seers, I observed a reoccurring theme. This theme was not new to the clairvoyant phenomenon.

I am also somewhat a student of history. I noticed this same reoccurring theme goes all the way back to the Dawn of Man. This theme can be found in the words of the prophets of antiquity. It can be found in the religious dogma of the past two thousand years. It is ever present in the New Age message with its roots in the Astral.

This theme, to which I refer, is the concept that "there will be a bright new day" if only one stays focused on the 'god' of whatever dogma is being promoted. This reoccurring theme, throughout history, is what I characterize as "objective evidence".

Please note: when I use the term 'god', I am also referring to the contemporary concept that, "we are all creator-beings of our own reality", found within the dogma of the contemporary edition of this "everything is going to be O.K." telepathically implanted rhetoric.

There is absolutely no objective evidence, that can be presented by those supporting these concepts, to prove their subjective interpretations of the very personal experiences they are having are NOT being influenced by archonic entities.

Where are your thousands of years of prophetic documents.... documents that have all turned-out to be lies? How many thousands of predictions and messages of hope coming from these seers have never occurred, all the way back into antiquity?

Please refer to what I said in comment #1887:


"Indigenous Cultures required a lifetime of preparation for the 'chosen' individuals whose jobs were to go into the Astral on behalf of the tribe."

I'm aware of the word games that are played by supporters of these concepts, so don't bother with your "objective v. subjective" wordplay. It won't work.

I've already described the sort of objective evidence I'm referring to. Supporters of the types of telepathically implanted messages I've already described can offer no documents, photographs, or witnesses to their very personal experiences. This is the sort of objective evidence one needs to produce for their experiences to move from subjective imagination to objective reality.

So, Finefeather, as I stated in the beginning of this comment, I'm going to take a break from a policy, and offer you something I ran across back in the early 90s, just as my faith in the many seers I had been subscribing to was crumbling. This work came from one of those three 'channelers' I referred to earlier. I was fortunate to find a copy of this book on the internet:

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vida_alien/warinheaven/warheaven-III.htm

It's a relatively easy read, and one can get through it in a week of evenings.

As I've stated many times on this forum, I do not subscribe to telepathically implanted thoughts. The content of the above linked book is derived from telepathically implanted thoughts. One will find the content of this book much different from the material coming from most clairvoyants from throughout history.

Could there be something to the observation that the astral is being patrolled by archonic entities whose purpose is to confuse and trap the Mass of Humanity?

You be the judge.

It is not my intention, Finefeather, of starting a debate with you, in this thread, over the issue of good v. evil with regard to telepathic thoughts and your personal experiences in the astral. This thread is about archonic energies and the Abject Evil they represent. The comments I make are presentations of an evidential trail related to that particular influence.

There are other threads where you can debate the merits of your telepathically implanted interpretation.

Hi observer
Ignorance is bliss when you think you have 'got it' all wrapped up in neat little piles of books, when you have heard all the stories from all those who have come to conclusions based on reading their books.

If you could only but see, for yourself, in the astral, the reality of what the imagination can create when your mind is stuck in concepts and stories based on ignorance and preconceived mental creations, you will know the truth of the matter.

Knowing the astral plane and it's inhabitants is clearly not your strong point. I have no real interest in any of the many books and journeys you have taken in history, or any other literature, there are many who have spent decades studying fields of science and other disciplines who are still far away from the slightest understanding of what reality, in fact, is. Your long drawn out post of trying to convince me of your proficiency in this field does not make me stand back in awe.

There is only one way to gain wisdom and that is by personal experience, on the job training, to coin a phrase, and yours is lacking in this field.

To suggest that I have been telepathically implanted with some glorious pictures of the astral is pure nonsense. If you are unable to realize who is doing the controlling in your head then so be it, because I know exactly who is doing the talking in my head. I can recognise immediately when I have foreign thoughts in my mind because I know exactly who I am.

No amount of books can really accurately describe to anyone what really goes on in the astral because you have to experience it personally to 'get it'. The state of the mind of the person entering the astral is a direct correlation to the experience you will have. The manifestations of astral attack is so diverse and yet specific to the person that only he/she can know the reality thereof. Unfortunately most who experience these attacks are reluctant to give out the real truth and the inner secrets they play out in their lives. At best, or should I say, at worst, we end up with stories of such horror that we are struck down by fear, all because of ignorance and self created mental nightmares.

To suggest that my statement had nothing to do with the Horus-Ra thread is clear that you have not enough experience to come to that conclusion in this regard. You should also know that age in terms of earth years has very little to do with wisdom.

I also never realised you had taken over as OP of this thread to suggest I should move to another thread. Let the OP speak up, not the 'observer'...
And to all those who are in awe of observers post I say only one thing: Don't believe everything you read in books or on forums, they come from someone else's mind not your own, and that goes for my post as well, you are here to gain your own experience.

[NancyV]

Great post, Finefeather, thanks! I was hoping someone else besides me would tackle the remarks by observer. Excellent job. It's obvious to me that you've traveled in other dimensions and gotten a great perspective from that. It's pretty easy to tell when someone knows what they're talking about. Of course we can't be sure that others will have the same experiences we do in other dimensions, but there is an energy that emanates from someone who has traveled extensively out of body.

I have experienced many negative entities/beings in the lower astral dimensions, but I don't label them as Archontic (or Archonic). They could certainly be Archons but in the astral I didn't care about labels or names. The way I always looked at it in the couple of months I was stuck in the lower astral realms was that there were nasty beings and not so nasty beings. They all had an agenda or they wouldn't have been hanging out there. I engaged in a lot of battles until I finally found the way out (with help). The tactics beings use there range from outright attacks by demonic type beings to seduction by beings who attempt to portray themselves as powerful gods. All these tactics are control games so they can trap us.

Once I went on to higher dimensions I could bypass the lower astral and if I did happen to go through it I never had another challenge that was a problem. Probably many beings get stuck there or want to stay there, especially if they are enjoying the negative games or because they can't release their fear and merge with love. Once I was filled with the love no negative beings could touch me again in all the subsequent years I continued to travel to higher dimensions.

As far as the proof that observer seems to desire: I would suggest to you, observer, that you ask wynderer for proof of her statements of ET abductions, torture, astral travel, being a hybrid, milab, superior to humans, etc, etc. I would never ask for proof, since it's ludicrous and rude and impossible to give, but YOU have said that those of us who have OBE's should show proof. Why have you not asked wynderer for proof when it's obvious that you support and back up her posts and claims? You have no proof of anything. You have only your preferences, your ideas and your opinions from your research. Period. I have my ideas, preferences and opinions from my years of research and from years of experience in traveling out of body in every dimension up to the Source. If you have had OBE's please tell us of your experiences.

[wynderer]

i see your Alpha Mike Foxtrot up above, suggesting a military connection -- are you connected highly enough that you can gain access to the documents re abductions, including the names of abductees? -- i don't know if those who are abducted en masse by the Greys are listed, but i'm sure milabs & Reptilian playthings [Humans] are

& drat -- wish i'd taken photos of some of the marks on my body i've awakened with -- i thought the chafe marks on my wrists [as in fighting against restraints] were rather impressive

i do NOT consider myself superior to Humans, & esp not to your Animal brothers & sisters --i've lived a Human life in a Human body for 63 yrs [Earth time] -- i have fallen in love w/this planet, & am a champion for Earth Humans' repossession of a planet that is rightfully theirs


Great post, Finefeather, thanks! I was hoping someone else besides me would tackle the remarks by observer. Excellent job. It's obvious to me that you've traveled in other dimensions and gotten a great perspective from that. It's pretty easy to tell when someone knows what they're talking about. Of course we can't be sure that others will have the same experiences we do in other dimensions, but there is an energy that emanates from someone who has traveled extensively out of body.

I have experienced many negative entities/beings in the lower astral dimensions, but I don't label them as Archontic (or Archonic). They could certainly be Archons but in the astral I didn't care about labels or names. The way I always looked at it in the couple of months I was stuck in the lower astral realms was that there were nasty beings and not so nasty beings. They all had an agenda or they wouldn't have been hanging out there. I engaged in a lot of battles until I finally found the way out (with help). The tactics beings use there range from outright attacks by demonic type beings to seduction by beings who attempt to portray themselves as powerful gods. All these tactics are control games so they can trap us.

Once I went on to higher dimensions I could bypass the lower astral and if I did happen to go through it I never had another challenge that was a problem. Probably many beings get stuck there or want to stay there, especially if they are enjoying the negative games or because they can't release their fear and merge with love. Once I was filled with the love no negative beings could touch me again in all the subsequent years I continued to travel to higher dimensions.

As far as the proof that observer seems to desire: I would suggest to you, observer, that you ask wynderer for proof of her statements of ET abductions, torture, astral travel, being a hybrid, milab, superior to humans, etc, etc. I would never ask for proof, since it's ludicrous and rude and impossible to give, but YOU have said that those of us who have OBE's should show proof. Why have you not asked wynderer for proof when it's obvious that you support and back up her posts and claims? You have no proof of anything. You have only your preferences, your ideas and your opinions from your research. Period. I have my ideas, preferences and opinions from my years of research and from years of experience in traveling out of body in every dimension up to the Source. If you have had OBE's please tell us of your experiences.

[NancyV]

i see your Alpha Mike Foxtrot up above, suggesting a military connection -- are you connected highly enough that you can gain access to the documents re abductions, including the names of abductees? -- i don't know if those who are abducted en masse by the Greys are listed, but i'm sure milabs & Reptilian playthings [Humans] are

& drat -- wish i'd taken photos of some of the marks on my body i've awakened with -- i thought the chafe marks on my wrists [as in fighting against restraints] were rather impressive

i do NOT consider myself superior to Humans, & esp not to your Animal brothers & sisters --i've lived a Human life in a Human body for 63 yrs [Earth time] -- i have fallen in love w/this planet, & am a champion for Earth Humans' repossession of a planet that is rightfully theirs
If you recognize my signature as military then I guess you know what alpha, mike, foxtrot means? LOL... No I don't have any special connection to the military other than 3 husbands and a son who were military....my present husband was special forces, black ops, etc.

Please don't think I want proof from you. I wouldn't believe much so called proof anyway, unless it were like some of the implants that have been removed and video taped. Those are pretty great proof of something weird going on! But I neither believe nor disbelieve your story, I just listen with interest without forming a judgment about the truth of it since there is no proof.

My husband actually went through sort of torture at the hands of our government when he returned from Vietnam. He was sent to a secret facility in Colorado where they gave him drugs, hallucinogenics in a sensory deprivation tank, and shock treatments by a vindictive type "doctor" who was called Dr. Shock! Oddly enough Dr. Shock had an unfortunate accident and was killed by his own equipment, shocked to death! I can't think of a more fitting death.... and neither could my husband. They learned at that facility that they couldn't control special forces type dudes and my husband convinced them that it would be a lot healthier for them to release him. But he DID like the hallucinogenics and sensory deprivation tank. After 18 months in Vietnam that was pretty fantastic.

He has also seen grays, the tall and short grays, and one reptilian being at area 51. But of course he has no proof and would never give proof anyway. So if he is telling the truth then our government has worked with the grays and also been in contact with some kind of reptilian race. He does say the grays are very easy to kill since he was called in once when there was a conflict at area 51 with the grays. He felt their attempts at mind control but he is able to resist mind control so was able to kill them. He said they are pretty easy to kill as their main advantage is their ability to control the average human mind. Several humans were killed that day. This was in the 80's if I remember correctly.

As far as you not considering yourself superior to humans, I can say that many of your posts I have read do have a rather condescending tone, such as the following ones:

split from Horus-Ra thread: discussion of conduct on that thread
such a species-centric species Humans are -- all this focus on one Human being as your planet is being nuked & trashed & being taken over by a hostile ET junta --score one for the archons

Why am I not enlightened?
you are not enlightened because anyone who is in a 3D Human body is living w/a brain & mind totally messed w/by your controllers, in a matrix in which both your 3D & your 4D bodies are restricted & controlled. Then they like to make you feel like it's your fault that you are so disconnected from what is rightfully yours

The Hybrids & Clones Amongst Us
it's just a fact, a reality, that Reptilians consider Humans to be quite stupid -- as they have been controlling Human minds for millennia [see Houman's archon thread, esp Observer's posts], they may have a point

the intent of this thread was not to discuss the Reptilian superiority complex & whether or not we like it -- the intent was to alert you all to the fact that Reptilian/Human hybrids are being 'seeded' thruout this world, & that Grey clones are illegally taking over Human bodies

Since you say you are a partial reptilian hybrid I would guess that you got part of their superiority complex, if it's true. I'm not going to go look for all your posts (at least the ones you haven't deleted) which sound like you think you know more than the average stupid human, but whether you intend to or not, you do give out a know it all type of energy. Who knows, maybe I do too.....takes one to know one type of thing. But I see what you are doing and it constantly annoys me, sort of on the level of a gnat buzzing in my face. In this case I could remove the face but I choose to put up with the gnat. Not that you should care and I certainly don't care what others think about me. So please continue on being yourself and don't let my opinion affect you. Yours does not affect me.

[wynderer]

thank you for expressing your honest take on how i come off -- i mean that sincerely -- i always prefer honesty over little snipes & digs

if i come off as sounding arrogant, that's not my intention --

i think you could read my 3 posts you quoted as trying to tell you what i have learned thru personal interaction w/the Reptilians -- i did not create the Universe & all the beings in it -- to me, it's just a fact that they are here, they despise most Humans, & they are working hard in these times to take as many of your souls w/them as they can during the mass deaths coming up

also, pls note my 2nd personal signature







i see your Alpha Mike Foxtrot up above, suggesting a military connection -- are you connected highly enough that you can gain access to the documents re abductions, including the names of abductees? -- i don't know if those who are abducted en masse by the Greys are listed, but i'm sure milabs & Reptilian playthings [Humans] are

& drat -- wish i'd taken photos of some of the marks on my body i've awakened with -- i thought the chafe marks on my wrists [as in fighting against restraints] were rather impressive

i do NOT consider myself superior to Humans, & esp not to your Animal brothers & sisters --i've lived a Human life in a Human body for 63 yrs [Earth time] -- i have fallen in love w/this planet, & am a champion for Earth Humans' repossession of a planet that is rightfully theirs
If you recognize my signature as military then I guess you know what alpha, mike, foxtrot means? LOL... No I don't have any special connection to the military other than 3 husbands and a son who were military....my present husband was special forces, black ops, etc.

Please don't think I want proof from you. I wouldn't believe much so called proof anyway, unless it were like some of the implants that have been removed and video taped. Those are pretty great proof of something weird going on! But I neither believe nor disbelieve your story, I just listen with interest without forming a judgment about the truth of it since there is no proof.

My husband actually went through sort of torture at the hands of our government when he returned from Vietnam. He was sent to a secret facility in Colorado where they gave him drugs, hallucinogenics in a sensory deprivation tank, and shock treatments by a vindictive type "doctor" who was called Dr. Shock! Oddly enough Dr. Shock had an unfortunate accident and was killed by his own equipment, shocked to death! I can't think of a more fitting death.... and neither could my husband. They learned at that facility that they couldn't control special forces type dudes and my husband convinced them that it would be a lot healthier for them to release him. But he DID like the hallucinogenics and sensory deprivation tank. After 18 months in Vietnam that was pretty fantastic.

He has also seen grays, the tall and short grays, and one reptilian being at area 51. But of course he has no proof and would never give proof anyway. So if he is telling the truth then our government has worked with the grays and also been in contact with some kind of reptilian race. He does say the grays are very easy to kill since he was called in once when there was a conflict at area 51 with the grays. He felt their attempts at mind control but he is able to resist mind control so was able to kill them. He said they are pretty easy to kill as their main advantage is their ability to control the average human mind. Several humans were killed that day. This was in the 80's if I remember correctly.

As far as you not considering yourself superior to humans, I can say that many of your posts I have read do have a rather condescending tone, such as the following ones:

split from Horus-Ra thread: discussion of conduct on that thread
such a species-centric species Humans are -- all this focus on one Human being as your planet is being nuked & trashed & being taken over by a hostile ET junta --score one for the archons

Why am I not enlightened?
you are not enlightened because anyone who is in a 3D Human body is living w/a brain & mind totally messed w/by your controllers, in a matrix in which both your 3D & your 4D bodies are restricted & controlled. Then they like to make you feel like it's your fault that you are so disconnected from what is rightfully yours

The Hybrids & Clones Amongst Us
it's just a fact, a reality, that Reptilians consider Humans to be quite stupid -- as they have been controlling Human minds for millennia [see Houman's archon thread, esp Observer's posts], they may have a point

the intent of this thread was not to discuss the Reptilian superiority complex & whether or not we like it -- the intent was to alert you all to the fact that Reptilian/Human hybrids are being 'seeded' thruout this world, & that Grey clones are illegally taking over Human bodies

Since you say you are a partial reptilian hybrid I would guess that you got part of their superiority complex, if it's true. I'm not going to go look for all your posts (at least the ones you haven't deleted) which sound like you think you know more than the average stupid human, but whether you intend to or not, you do give out a know it all type of energy. Who knows, maybe I do too.....takes one to know one type of thing. But I see what you are doing and it constantly annoys me, sort of on the level of a gnat buzzing in my face. In this case I could remove the face but I choose to put up with the gnat. Not that you should care and I certainly don't care what others think about me. So please continue on being yourself and don't let my opinion affect you. Yours does not affect me.

[wynderer]

i was logged off & comfortably in bed, reading, when i realized that i had not responded to the more important part of your post [in my apparently often arrogant opinion] , which is what you shared about your husband -- he sounds like a hero to me



i see your Alpha Mike Foxtrot up above, suggesting a military connection -- are you connected highly enough that you can gain access to the documents re abductions, including the names of abductees? -- i don't know if those who are abducted en masse by the Greys are listed, but i'm sure milabs & Reptilian playthings [Humans] are

& drat -- wish i'd taken photos of some of the marks on my body i've awakened with -- i thought the chafe marks on my wrists [as in fighting against restraints] were rather impressive

i do NOT consider myself superior to Humans, & esp not to your Animal brothers & sisters --i've lived a Human life in a Human body for 63 yrs [Earth time] -- i have fallen in love w/this planet, & am a champion for Earth Humans' repossession of a planet that is rightfully theirs
If you recognize my signature as military then I guess you know what alpha, mike, foxtrot means? LOL... No I don't have any special connection to the military other than 3 husbands and a son who were military....my present husband was special forces, black ops, etc.

Please don't think I want proof from you. I wouldn't believe much so called proof anyway, unless it were like some of the implants that have been removed and video taped. Those are pretty great proof of something weird going on! But I neither believe nor disbelieve your story, I just listen with interest without forming a judgment about the truth of it since there is no proof.

My husband actually went through sort of torture at the hands of our government when he returned from Vietnam. He was sent to a secret facility in Colorado where they gave him drugs, hallucinogenics in a sensory deprivation tank, and shock treatments by a vindictive type "doctor" who was called Dr. Shock! Oddly enough Dr. Shock had an unfortunate accident and was killed by his own equipment, shocked to death! I can't think of a more fitting death.... and neither could my husband. They learned at that facility that they couldn't control special forces type dudes and my husband convinced them that it would be a lot healthier for them to release him. But he DID like the hallucinogenics and sensory deprivation tank. After 18 months in Vietnam that was pretty fantastic.

He has also seen grays, the tall and short grays, and one reptilian being at area 51. But of course he has no proof and would never give proof anyway. So if he is telling the truth then our government has worked with the grays and also been in contact with some kind of reptilian race. He does say the grays are very easy to kill since he was called in once when there was a conflict at area 51 with the grays. He felt their attempts at mind control but he is able to resist mind control so was able to kill them. He said they are pretty easy to kill as their main advantage is their ability to control the average human mind. Several humans were killed that day. This was in the 80's if I remember correctly.

As far as you not considering yourself superior to humans, I can say that many of your posts I have read do have a rather condescending tone, such as the following ones:

split from Horus-Ra thread: discussion of conduct on that thread
such a species-centric species Humans are -- all this focus on one Human being as your planet is being nuked & trashed & being taken over by a hostile ET junta --score one for the archons

Why am I not enlightened?
you are not enlightened because anyone who is in a 3D Human body is living w/a brain & mind totally messed w/by your controllers, in a matrix in which both your 3D & your 4D bodies are restricted & controlled. Then they like to make you feel like it's your fault that you are so disconnected from what is rightfully yours

The Hybrids & Clones Amongst Us
it's just a fact, a reality, that Reptilians consider Humans to be quite stupid -- as they have been controlling Human minds for millennia [see Houman's archon thread, esp Observer's posts], they may have a point

the intent of this thread was not to discuss the Reptilian superiority complex & whether or not we like it -- the intent was to alert you all to the fact that Reptilian/Human hybrids are being 'seeded' thruout this world, & that Grey clones are illegally taking over Human bodies

Since you say you are a partial reptilian hybrid I would guess that you got part of their superiority complex, if it's true. I'm not going to go look for all your posts (at least the ones you haven't deleted) which sound like you think you know more than the average stupid human, but whether you intend to or not, you do give out a know it all type of energy. Who knows, maybe I do too.....takes one to know one type of thing. But I see what you are doing and it constantly annoys me, sort of on the level of a gnat buzzing in my face. In this case I could remove the face but I choose to put up with the gnat. Not that you should care and I certainly don't care what others think about me. So please continue on being yourself and don't let my opinion affect you. Yours does not affect me.

[Daughter of Time]

Wyn,

Since I haven't read all your posts then I apologize if what I'm about to ask has already been answered by you.

Since you think you might be a reptilian/human hybrid, then I wonder what your knowledge is on the origins of reptilians.

Some theorize that reptilians are ETs while others theorize that reptilians are earthly creatures who were here long before humans.

What is your opinion on this?

[Sierra]

I would refer you to post # 1675.

Ah...the oft mentioned "dreamtime healing" vids, knew I wasn't getting away from that one--but I had that filed away for when I found some new earbuds, been w/o video for a week or so (I got the shakes!!)...motivation to get on that.

Thank you very much amer zo!!

Any reading I can do while waiting for her to finish MRI?

....speaking of which, anybody ever catch anything (implants?) in a regular brain MRI?

They are trying to rule out MS, which I know nothing about...so doing "contrast", though not sure what that means. All I know is that whatever is physically wrong, whether dormant or placed at that instant, it triggered directly from receiving information, some external force trying to stop it. How do you tell a doctor that??

I believe Duncan O'Finioan went through an MRI, and it trashed his implant, giving him some freedom and awareness, where there was none before.

Sierra

EDIT: Never mind! I see Amzer Zo already gave you a link!

[wynderer]

Hi Daughter of Time --

i've hesitated to reply because i recalled that the last time i was posting on Avalon, Bill referred to my obsession w/Reptilians --

it's not fun for me to post about them -- as i wrote before, they don't like being talked/written about, & there is always payback -- i sometimes do wonder how well others here would stand up to what i've endured since i woke up in that abduction -- & then try to tell others about it & get the kinds of responses i get, from Humans

that said -- in my arrogant, know-it-all opinion, i think the Reptilians are 3D who came to Earth from elsewhere , & that their ability to inhabit 4D as well as 3D is something Humans should also be able to do, were you not in dumbed-down brains/minds in a matrix -- so that would make them ETs

edit to add: in fairness to the Reptilians, it's possible that some of the assaults i've endured may have come from our own military, using refinements on the technology they got from the gov't deals w/the ETs -- like the nights when i got awakened every hour on the hour by what sounded like a big boat horn, going BLAAAAT! in my ear

i sometimes think that continuing w/the hypnotherapy [basically giving myself permission to remember, w/the help of someone i trust, in a safe place] -- this is a choice to remember who did what to me, the what being especially unpleasant


Wyn,

Since I haven't read all your posts then I apologize if what I'm about to ask has already been answered by you.

Since you think you might be a reptilian/human hybrid, then I wonder what your knowledge is on the origins of reptilians.

Some theorize that reptilians are ETs while others theorize that reptilians are earthly creatures who were here long before humans.

What is your opinion on this?

[Finefeather]

removed to avoid controversy

[wynderer]

but the astral planes as a whole, as an entirety, are a 'lower dimension' --vibrating at a frequency that is easy to manipulate [presented to Humans as 'the ability to create one's reality']

my ex & i used to have this discussion -- i told him to wake up the next day as a woman in South Africa, & give me a call from there , & then i'd listen to him




Hi wynderer, hope you are well and happy :)

hi Finefeather --
when you leave your body, aka die, this time around, are you planning to stay in the astral planes?
I am not part of the current earth human chain, but part of a group of beings who have agreed to assist in the energy 'upgrade'. We are from a slightly higher level than the average human soul and have no karmic attachment to the current earth chain. We have to live our lives on earth in relative isolation to prevent attachment. When my body has served it's purpose I will return to my home which is not in what is termed the astral plane. The astral plane is a confusing term as many have created, in their minds, their own interpretation. The higher 'astral' planes are extremely beautiful and the decision to stay there is only based on the work we have decided to do on denser planes. It is the bridge or halfway house and it is there that separation from your source takes place.


before my 3rd Eye chakra was heavily implanted [ & i put up quite a fight!] , i was able to both leave my body, & remember where i went -- sometimes it was way outside/above Earth, 3D Earth, & the astral planes surrounding her
My understanding and experience based on the type of work I do is that, what you call the 3rd eye, has no effect on your ability to leave your body. You still leave your body every night. The fact that you say you do not remember anymore, is due to the fact that you are out of tune with your higher mind. I do not understand what you mean by 'heavily implanted' because no one but you is able to affect that tuning between your higher consciousness and your waking consciousness. Blockages are often caused by the higher self for some purpose in your life, which only it will be privy to. You need to change your emotional energy patterns to get back the ability to remember. People with high imagination levels and who have not yet mastered their emotions can end up with a traumatic astral life and not remembering is often a blessing in disguise. This thread is all about this phenomena.
Just to set the record straight: the astral planes are not located around the earth as in some sort of onion idea, all the quantum planes are everywhere, you are living right next to your dead aunt or mother or child and you just don't realize it.


from this viewpoint, the astral planes near Earth sure look like a pen for your minds, the way 3D Earth is a pen/cage/matrix for your bodies
Once again I note that you are confused about the astral planes. There is no 'viewpoint' from which the astral plane can be viewed, like we see the earth from a porthole inside an airline.
The lower 'astral' planes have their purpose in the same way as the physical density and the many entities who inhabit it are as comfortable there as a fish is in water. Once you understand the density levels of the cosmos you will know that life is everywhere. You create your own reality in every density that you find yourself in, so it would be a good idea to understand this better and you will slowly realize that the 'pen/cage/matrix' is just your own illusion and creation.


i've always felt/thought that truth was more important than maintaining happy feelings -- your controllers know how to create happy feelings in you when you are in the astral planes --

Truth begets happy feelings and if you are not the controller then you should start being the controller. The happy feeling you say are created by your controllers, is the same as the feeling some of us get when we receive our paycheck each month. There is motive behind it to get the most out of you with the least amount of exchange. If you decide to be controlled by others you have a few choices:
1. Stay locked into that controlled helpless situation, where you believe you can have no life without it, and have a false sense of happiness or:
2. Begin to realize that you are an equal opportunity soul who has the right to be treated accordingly. I know many who have equal opportunity relationships with others, it's called unconditional love. If you do not find it in your life, first look inside yourself to make sure your house is in order, else move away from the situation.

Regards

[observer]

I don't know how many times I have to repeat a simple fact.

Personal testimony works well among those who desire to be hypnotized by the dogma.

And now, Finefether, you are making a bizarre claim to being some sort of emissary from a higher dimension:



"I am not part of the current earth human chain, but part of a group of beings who have agreed to assist in the energy 'upgrade'. We are from a slightly higher level than the average human soul and have no karmic attachment to the current earth chain."

This sort of 'witnessing' would be well suited to a discussion in something similar to the Bible Thread. It is NOT the sort of evidence being presented in this thread.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdB-tbzJSrk&list=PL0B83B0D0497E84C6&index=1&feature=plpp_video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdB-tbzJSrk&list=PL0B83B0D0497E84C6&index=1&feature=plpp_video

Take a listen at about 11 min. in.


They are very clever at what they do....

[Finefeather]

removed to avoid controversy

[SilentFeathers]

thank you for expressing your honest take on how i come off -- i mean that sincerely -- i always prefer honesty over little snipes & digs

if i come off as sounding arrogant, that's not my intention --

i think you could read my 3 posts you quoted as trying to tell you what i have learned thru personal interaction w/the Reptilians -- i did not create the Universe & all the beings in it -- to me, it's just a fact that they are here, they despise most Humans, & they are working hard in these times to take as many of your souls w/them as they can during the mass deaths coming up

also, pls note my 2nd personal signature

Since honesty is being addressed here, I'll voice how I honestly feel in this one post only.

First: (your signature quote)
Never underestimate the intelligence of the common man.
D W Griffith

I consider my "self" a common man.....

Second: I feel you have derailed this thread by making it all about you you you, yet "you" are a great example of what "was" the nature and topic of this thread, which is "parasites". Perhaps this is "your" nature due to you being a reptilian/ET alien creature trapped in a human body. I feel you are feeding off the energy of others here.

Third: There is a part of me that actually believes you may of truly had an alien encounter, hence; been abducted. But reading through most of your posts I strongly sense deception on some level or perhaps it's just you making certain things up through your own imagination to how you perceive ALL of these creatures/parasites to be based on one or two of your own personal experiences. Thus, most of what you are saying I personally do not accept as truth of your experience(s) and regard it as nothing but hearsay.

Fourth: That is all I will say about this and will look forward to this thread returning back to what it once was.

[donk]

If I've learned one thing in life about conflict/struggle/negativity/aggression, it's that it seems to stem from one of the most powerful items in the "toolkit" we are ascribing to archontic forces, and that is attachment to one's beliefs.

How easily does ANY thread get "derailed" when someone starts speaking as the be-all, end-all authority on something--that they just KNOW something....then someone takes exception, and either takes the passive-aggressive route:

you seem to talk with such authority, you seem to know everything, oh it must be nice up there on those higher planes, you lower vibrational non-experienced slaves don't even understand, and on and on....

or the directly aggressive route:

You are wrong, I know this, you are delusional, this expert said this, oh your expert is a liar, and on and on....

Point is, this SEEMS to be the easiest element of this whole issue to "get over" or transcend or beat some archon ass or whatever, but as evidenced by recent events in the thread, it seems a lot of times that people that "get it" can easily slip back into this intense emotional attachment to their beliefs (even if that belief is "you shouldn't have attachments to your beliefs" ;) ).

No one seems to be immune--I will never claim I am not guilty of same thing, and hope that when I am someone can point it out to me in a way I can hear. It takes vigilance and constantly questioning who you are, allowing yourself to be wrong, to be able to accept everything, while not truly accepting anyhing, if that makes any sense.

I feel I "know myself", and I don't KNOW a friggin' thing. I like to share what I found to be the "truth", and have others do the same in return. When someone shoves their "truth" in everyone's face along with all their baggage and attachments, it makes it harder to discern the information being transmitted. I accept that this is the programming, this is "normal", at least in the society I was raised in...and learning how to open people's eyes to this is one of my passions (emotional attachment??).

So, what I am really getting at, is that every post that I read seems to me directly related to the OP--but depending on the emotional attachment thrown in with it, it falls into a scale from objective evidential source of information to an intense example of the forces at work (which still is informative, but gets to be a drag after a dozen pages). Ironically, many of the posts asking that the thread be "kept on topic" falls in the middle...people want that, and usually ask for it with some baggage on the side.

Maybe if people started thinking about why they are throwing in their personal stuff (which I tend to enjoy), make sure you think about WHY and WHAT you are saying, and asking yourself--is my audience going to understand the information that I am trying to share?

[Finefeather]

removed to avoid controversy

[Sierra]

If I've learned one thing in life about conflict/struggle/negativity/aggression, it's that it seems to stem from one of the most powerful items in the "toolkit" we are ascribing to archontic forces, and that is attachment to one's beliefs.

No one seems to be immune--I will never claim I am not guilty of same thing, and hope that when I am someone can point it out to me in a way I can hear. It takes vigilance and constantly questioning who you are, allowing yourself to be wrong, to be able to accept everything, while not truly accepting anyhing, if that makes any sense.

I feel I "know myself", and I don't KNOW a friggin' thing. I like to share what I found to be the "truth", and have others do the same in return. When someone shoves their "truth" in everyone's face along with all their baggage and attachments, it makes it harder to discern the information being transmitted. I accept that this is the programming, this is "normal", at least in the society I was raised in...and learning how to open people's eyes to this is one of my passions (emotional attachment??).


Makes perfect sense to this Libran over here...

Sierra :wave:

[Houman]

from 4:20 onward

qKE9FOlto1g

[NancyV]

I don't know how many times I have to repeat a simple fact.

Personal testimony works well among those who desire to be hypnotized by the dogma.

And now, Finefether, you are making a bizarre claim to being some sort of emissary from a higher dimension:
You seem to be picking and choosing who you are accusing of giving "personal testimony" Have you asked Wynderer for proof, which you seem to value so much, of being an abductee or of any of her other statements about the astral plane or being tortured? Her statements are also "personal testimony".

Finefeather's statements are no more provable or unprovable than Wynderer's statements and claims. He has his perspective, she has hers. Your perspective seems to include an agenda to control how others post and to judge who is believable and who is not....entirely without proof and only through "personal testimony". How about you lighten up on your attempts to control others and stop attempting to deliberately demean a chosen few. At the least you could be an equal opportunity demeaner, but your prejudices and biases are blatantly obvious and grindingly boring.

[wynderer]

thought this might be of interest, particularly this quote:


My research suggests that a covert military/intelligence pursuit of developing extraterrestrial technologies, in combination with the military, economic, and political gains that would be derived from such a pursuit, has resulted in making ET abductions a matter of national security. And I feel strongly that it also provides immense insight into why an official disclosure of the UFO reality has not been forthcoming.

http://www.alienjigsaw.com/Milabs/ReABS.htm

RE-ABS: Not MILABS

How the Covert-Ops' Reverse Engineering of Extraterrestrial Abductees Shifts the Abduction Paradigm

By Melinda Leslie


Twenty years ago I came to learn of my own experiences with extraterrestrial (ET) abduction. After only two years into my discovery process, I suddenly had a new form of encounter – one that included the involvement of military personnel in my experiences. This new discovery led me to research the military or covert-ops involvement in other cases besides my own, and learning that I was not alone. In fact, many abductees share a covert human involvement in their lives. I have now conducted over fifty formal interviews with abductees who have these covert-ops experiences and I'm familiar with at least another fifty more. Over the years, these experiences became the focus of my research, but my definition of them changed as the research grew and changed. I have since come to call these experiences, "the reverse engineering of ET abductees."

While attending UFO conferences and lectures, I find myself in conversations attempting to explain my research to people, during which they often ask, "What do you mean when you say they are reverse engineering abductees?!" as they listen to me describe why there is a military and/or intelligence community (military/intelligence) interest in abductees. In my attempt to briefly summarize for them, I soon realize a more detailed explanation is required to really grasp the greater implications of reverse engineering as it relates to the abduction subject, especially since what I am actually referring to is the bigger picture of where ET abduction meets technology meets UFO cover-up. But, before I begin, some background information is needed.

MILABS: An Acronym is Born

In the UFO abduction and ufology community, the acronym "MILABS" (or MILAB) which is short for military (MIL) abductions (ABS) has become synonymous with a military presence, or government agency involvement in ET abduction experiences. This abbreviation was originally coined by Dr. Helmut_Lammer in a paper he wrote titled Preliminary Findings of Project MILAB: Evidence for Military Kidnappings of Alleged UFO Abductees, 1996, and later became the title of his and wife Marion Lammer's book MILABS: Military Mind Control and ET Abduction, 1999.

While credit is due to Dr. Lammer for coining the acronym, he was not the first to introduce the notion of a possible military/intelligence involvement in the abduction phenomenon. For many years, the subject was widely spoken and written about by abductees such as Kay Wilson (1993), Leah Haley (1993), Karla Turner (1994), Debbie Jordan (1994), Kim Carlsberg (1994), Mia Adams (1995) and even Whitley Strieber (1995) to name but a few. There was also research mentioning a military involvement in ET abductions in works such as the MUFON Transcription Project in 1995 and The Andreasson Affair Phase Two by Ray Fowler as far back as 1980, where he writes about Betty Andreasson's and Bob Luca's accounts of black helicopter involvement, all of this long before the use of the acronym that has come to define it.

In the time since its inception, "MILABS" has become a catch-all phrase used by researchers and abductees to reference many different types of possible experiences. From the presence of military uniformed personnel in an otherwise ET abduction scenario, to a litany of government mind control related activities, to an officially sanctioned government involvement in monitoring the lives of ET abductees, to an outright military cause for abductions in-lieu-of or excluding extraterrestrials altogether. Needless to say, the acronym, while generally accepted in the greater ufology community, gets loosely tossed about causing confusion. This problem has resulted in the person saying it means one thing, while the person hearing it often thinking something else altogether.

Due to the confusion, I started to redefine my research, not with an acronym, but with a statement boiled down to a sentence, that of: "Covert intelligence and paramilitary re-abduction, harassment, and surveillance in extraterrestrial abduction experiences," adding to it further from time to time with extra statements like, "as evidence for the reality of UFO abduction." My creation of this sentence was to attempt to describe my overall research in an encapsulated form so I didn't always have to go on and on at length. That being said, I do feel it necessary to briefly explain to the reader who may not be familiar with my research, more precisely what it is about.

Melinda Leslie's Research

My research suggests that a covert military/intelligence pursuit of developing extraterrestrial technologies, in combination with the military, economic, and political gains that would be derived from such a pursuit, has resulted in making ET abductions a matter of national security. And I feel strongly that it also provides immense insight into why an official disclosure of the UFO reality has not been forthcoming.

I contend it would be a complete "dereliction of duty" if the national security apparatus were not monitoring the abduction phenomenon, given the sheer number of people claiming to have experiences worldwide; the totality of evidence for ET abductions, the technology to be gained and learned, and the implications of the covert nature of abduction experiences. And I suggest this targeting, monitoring, and re-abduction of abductees by covert military/intelligence agencies may provide the strongest evidence for the reality of UFO abduction experiences. There is an abundance of evidence for covert involvement, such as extensive corroborating experience testimony, multiple forms of physical evidence, eyewitness testimony, accounts of military and intelligence insiders, and many forms of documented surveillance.

[clip]

[wynderer]

http://www.womeninufology.com/melinda-leslie.php

Melinda Leslie has been public with her own abduction experiences for over 20 years, researched covert-ops and military involvement in abductions (also known as MILABs) for 18 years, and interviewed over 80 abductees with this involvement. Melinda's research is featured in the book; Camouflage Through Limited Disclosure: Deconstructing a Cover-up of the Extraterrestrial Presence by Randy Koppang. Melinda has lectured for numerous organizations including MUFON, the X-Conference, the Bay Area UFO Expo, UFO Expo West, the International UFO Congress, The Whole Life Expo, and more. She has been a guest on numerous popular radio shows including Coast-to-Coast AM, and appeared on several television shows. For 9 years Melinda was the Producer and Director of a UFO lecture series hosting the most prominent names in ufology. In addition to her abduction work, Melinda has been a paranormal researcher for over 25 years and a founding member of the Orange County Paranormal Researchers, a group which has conducted formal investigations for 9 years.

[Houman]

The speaker is "Raun Kaufman"

9bCurFXG5do

"At 18 months, Raun was diagnosed as severely and incurably autistic. Although advised to institutionalize Raun, his parents, authors/teachers Samahria and Barry Neil Kaufman, instead created an innovative home-based, child-centered program in an effort to reach their son. Their work, which developed into a unique methodology now known as The Son-Rise Program, enabled Raun to recover completely from his Autism, transforming him from a mute, withdrawn child with a tested I.Q. of less than 30 into an outgoing, social boy with a near-genius I.Q. Raun’s story was recounted by his father, Barry Neil Kaufman..."

http://www.barryneilkaufman.com/pics/78raunboyfa.jpg

[wynderer]

Accounting for Stories of Alien Abduction Psychiatrist John Mack shares his convictons [sic] that these reports are 'authentic and disturbing mysteries'

By Deane W. Lord
Gazette Staff

[clip]
Estimates vary as to how many individuals have had abduction
experiences. According to a Roper Organization poll, one out of every
50 American adults-- some 3.7 million people indicate that they have
had an encounter with an unidentified flying object or an alien being.

"It is possible that hundreds of thousands, or even millions, of
people in this country alone have undergone abduction experiences,"
said Mack.

Because of the stigma attached to revealing such experiences, he
believes many people remain underground, too ashamed or alarmed to
admit the experience.

"The more prominent the person, the more likely he or she will be
reluctant to come forward as they have more to lose," he said. "Often,
once they seek help, abductees prefer to be diagnosed as crazy."

A well-known psychiatrist and psychoanalyst, Mack reports that of the
60 cases he has worked on he has found, -to his surprise, that after a
battery of psychological tests, "no psychiatric or psychosocial
explanation for these reports is evident. These people are not mentally
ill." He has spent countless therapeutic hours with these individuals
only to find that what struck him was the "ordinariness" of the
population, including a restaurant owner, several secretaries, a prison
guard, college students, a university administrator, and several
homemakers.

"The majority of abductees do not appear to be deluded,
confabulating, lying, self-dramatizing, or suffering from a clear
mental illness," he maintained. He has encountered only one person who
showed psychotic features.
[clip]
http://www.textfiles.com/ufo/UFOBBS/2000/2726.ufo

and this:
Why the Abduction Phenomenon Cannot Be Explained Psychiatrically
John Mack, M.D.
...Even psychosocial or cultural explanations, if they were to include all of the major dimensions of the syndrome, would force us to stretch our notions of the collective unconscious to such a degree that the distinctions between psyche and world, internal and external reality, would be obliterated…
[clip]
http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/JohnMack.htm

[wynderer]

John Edward Mack, M.D. (October 4, 1929–September 27, 2004) was an American psychiatrist, writer, and professor at Harvard Medical School. He was a Pulitzer Prize-winning biographer, and a leading authority on the spiritual or transformational effects of alleged alien abduction experiences.[1]

[edit] Biography[edit] Early careerBorn in New York City, Mack received his medical degree from Harvard Medical School (Cum Laude, 1955) after undergraduate study at Oberlin (Phi Beta Kappa, 1951). He was a graduate of the Boston Psychoanalytic Society and Institute and was certified in child and adult psychoanalysis.

The dominant theme of his life's work has been the exploration of how one's perceptions of the world affect one's relationships. He addressed this issue of "world view" on the individual level in his early clinical explorations of dreams, nightmares and teen suicide, and in A Prince of Our Disorder, his biographical study of the life of British officer T. E. Lawrence, for which he received the Pulitzer Prize for Biography in 1977.[2]

[edit] Cold War and anti-nuclear activismIn the 1980s, Mack interviewed many international political figures as part of his research into the root causes of the Cold War, including former President Jimmy Carter and the "father of the hydrogen bomb", Edward Teller. Together with luminaries such as Carl Sagan, Mack and other Physicians for Social Responsibility (the US affiliate of International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War) promoted the elimination of nuclear weapons and an end to the simmering conflict between the United States and the USSR. Emboldened by the organization's receipt of the Nobel Peace Prize in 1985, Mack, Sagan, and 700 other academics walked upon the grounds of the Nevada Test Site in the summer of 1986, setting a civil disobedience record for that nuclear weapons testing facility.

[clip]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Edward_Mack

[observer]

Click-on forwarding arrow to see Finefeather's comment#1920


Click-on forwarding arrow to see NancyV's comment #1926

For those members interested in my reply to Finefeather, and NancyV please see the comment I made in another thread. I'm moving this debate to the Split-Off thread out of respect for Houman's work, and because this debate has no place in this thread.


Click-on forwarding arrow to see observer's comment #172 in the Split-Off Thread

[wynderer]

Houman, hope you agree this fits in this thread -- i posted it on Freebooter's thread 1st

Alien-Demon Breeding Facility
Posted on February 26, 2011 by admin

Denver Airport – Google Earth Coordinates 104 44 30 - 40 36 10
About to Be Unleashed
Way Too Close of an Encounter

Where to begin? So much information and so little time … right?

By now many people are aware that there have been numerous reports of “alien breeding” occurring in the Deep Underground Military Bases. As far back as 1991, the reports indicated that 1 in 40 “so called” humans walking among us are hybrids of some type. You have endless streams of information from people who have witnessed these abominations (alien breeding underground), and “not so surprisingly” they all seem to eventually “disappear”, “commit suicide”, or are found dead for “whatever” reason is presented.

The original “Dulce Papers” are still floating around the Internet in various locations. They show what is evidently a hand sketched drawing of alien-human hybrid creatures in various stages of development in an eerie laboratory setting complete with security cameras and strange glowing broths of chemicals. It’s pretty creepy to say the least.

Where is Branton?

Then you have the “Branton” works. Reportedly “Branton” is a “pen-name”. Understandably so. If you search on “Branton Alien Nazi Reptilian NWO Warning” you will likely find his most alarming account of this unbelievable information. Branton is supposedly a Christian. Branton was supposedly inside of these Deep Underground Bases and saw this stuff with his own eyes. Evidently this fellow Branton, has disappeared and no one knows where he is today.

Here is an excerpt from the Branton paper mentioned above. This is an excellent work and will “short circuit” your earthly sensibilities.

The Reptiloids in Alpha Draconis and Rigel Orion claim that they originated on earth in prehistoric times and were part of a bipedal reptilian or saurian race [like the cunning velociraptors?]. Now they are here to take back ‘their planet’ from the human race. In order to accomplish this, they are using multi-leveled deception and propaganda — mostly through ‘channeled’ information and through information conveyed to ‘abductees’ — to convince humans to capitulate themselves over to aliens ‘guides’ and thus allow the aliens access to their minds and in turn to our society in general.


- Branton Alien Nazi Reptilian NWO Warning

Sherry Shriner Works and Warnings

You also have the works of Sherry Shriner. Now I admit I have studied her work and indeed listened to her radio shows. She has some surprisingly accurate data presented in a number of transcripts and writings. She is a Book of Enoch fan, and is WAY ahead of most Christian researchers in her knowledge of the “intergalactic” nature of the forthcoming “alien invasion”. And her write-ups of these creatures and their “human looking” versions is nothing less that “jaw dropping”.


[edit to add: Christians are having trouble reconciling the entire Bible as 'the Word of God' -- [the only word -- not one of my personal beliefs, nor that the whole book is the 'Word'] w/this new info]

However I warn you. Ms. Shriner denigrates Paul the apostle (thus discredits 2/3rds of the New Testament) and she blasphemes the Holy Spirit and claims that anyone who “speaks in tongues” is of the Devil and demonic. So there you go! There is proof positive that all these sources must be kept at arms length. Do your homework and learn if you are so led, but be careful out there. Behind every learned mouthpiece is a potential deception that will “jettison” you directly into the Great Tribulation. Sadly she is (maybe unwittingly) one of those sources.

Breeding Obsession and Resources

It is no secret for any mediocre student of “alien-demon” abductions, “they” have been obsessed with the reproductive system of the human being for a very very long time. There are abduction records that go back into the 50′s when Eisenhower signed the alien 1954 Greada Treaty. And before then you can dig up records that indicate even Roosevelt had dealings with similar issues. You can even find the mysterious and cryptic speech of General MacArthur where he mentions to an academy of military students that the real threat is one not of this earth.

[clip]

http://www.tribulation-now.org/2011/02/26/alien-demon-breeding-facility/

[Daughter of Time]

Hi Daughter of Time --

i've hesitated to reply because i recalled that the last time i was posting on Avalon, Bill referred to my obsession w/Reptilians --

it's not fun for me to post about them -- as i wrote before, they don't like being talked/written about, & there is always payback -- i sometimes do wonder how well others here would stand up to what i've endured since i woke up in that abduction -- & then try to tell others about it & get the kinds of responses i get, from Humans

that said -- in my arrogant, know-it-all opinion, i think the Reptilians are 3D who came to Earth from elsewhere , & that their ability to inhabit 4D as well as 3D is something Humans should also be able to do, were you not in dumbed-down brains/minds in a matrix -- so that would make them ETs

edit to add: in fairness to the Reptilians, it's possible that some of the assaults i've endured may have come from our own military, using refinements on the technology they got from the gov't deals w/the ETs -- like the nights when i got awakened every hour on the hour by what sounded like a big boat horn, going BLAAAAT! in my ear

i sometimes think that continuing w/the hypnotherapy [basically giving myself permission to remember, w/the help of someone i trust, in a safe place] -- this is a choice to remember who did what to me, the what being especially unpleasant


Wyn,

Since I haven't read all your posts then I apologize if what I'm about to ask has already been answered by you.

Since you think you might be a reptilian/human hybrid, then I wonder what your knowledge is on the origins of reptilians.

Some theorize that reptilians are ETs while others theorize that reptilians are earthly creatures who were here long before humans.

What is your opinion on this?

Thank you for answering my question. You didn't have to do it.

I didn't realize i was asking you to cross a boundary, otherwise I would not have asked.

If it should happen in the future that I ask something which would be detrimental to you, simply decline to answer. I will understand.

[wynderer]

from ICAR --Int'l Center for Abduction Research

Abductees Speak
Journey of Discovery by Becky

Part 2: Discovery


Because of the early ridicule I endured, I had no support system. There was no one with whom I could talk and no one I would trust to listen. I felt very alone, but learned to go on with my life. I did occasionally wonder about things and I think on some level I always knew something was going on. I would catch myself thinking about an odd mark or unexplainable bruise, and deciding, “Oh, they must have been here last night.” It took me years to wonder who “they” were. I accepted my odd fears and worked to overcome them. I didn’t question where they came from. There were times I would awaken with my nightclothes on backwards, inside out, or both. I became obsessed with checking them to make sure they were on correctly at bedtime, which they nearly always were. In the morning, I would be at a loss to explain how they had turned or flipped. Every once in a while, I would wake up with nothing on and find my night clothes in another room. This was extremely hard to explain, but I managed to simply shrug it off and not think too deeply about it. Occasionally, I would see some cartoon character or drawing of something with large eyes. They made me uncomfortable, but I would just avoid them. I didn’t like to spend the night at anyone else’s house because I felt a vague sense of guilt that I would somehow endanger them. I kept to myself for many years.

Everything changed in my 20’s when I accidentally picked up a book on alien abductions. The book was Communion by Whitley Strieber. I have been an avid science fiction reader my entire life, but always stayed well clear of UFO and abduction topics. I had never read any other books by this author, and didn’t have any idea what this particular book was about. I bought the book as part of a package for joining a book club and without thinking picked Communion. When it arrived, I put it aside and ignored it for months. The cover bothered me, so I turned it over and put it under a stack of other books. Even though I hadn’t read a word in it yet, I didn’t like the book. It disturbed me. Ultimately, I ran out of other reading material and picked it up again. As I began to read, I realized that I was recognizing more and more of the material. I read it from cover to cover in a few hours, never putting it down once I began. No other book has ever affected me as that one did, before or since. Quite literally, my world fell apart that day.

http://www.ufoabduction.com/becky2.htm

[Flash]

Most people on this forum must have read that book "War in Heavens" but I had not. Just finished reading it.

I found it quite interesting, even disturbing to say the least. What the author says sometimes corresponds to some of my readings etc, and some other parts are really new to me.

A war amongst forces, having enligntened ones not intervening in anything because nothing exist, organised religions and para religions of all kinds being traps for human beings and for mind control and even for souls food, having new ages as white or black and having music groups used for mind entrainment, this is easy to see.

However, one thing amongst others is to say that after the physical there is only the astral and it does not go further (what about the causal levels thaught in hiduis and occultism) , or yet, that souls do die (there is no eternity...), is more difficult for me to digest. It is quite clear that some archonic theocracy may damage the soul, but no eternal soul or soul transference to other state of being, and nothing past astral realms, I find it difficult to accept.

A few more points seems intagible to me. I wonder if others have read this book and what they think/lived.

Overall an interesting read nonetheless.

Thank you Observer.




Click-on forwarding arrow to see Finefeather's comment #1895

I'm going to take a break from a policy I try to strictly adhere regarding telepathically implanted thoughts, Finefeather, to give the members who are insisting this Astral is a wonderful place to play, a look into why I have formulated this point of view, and how this interpretation relates to the topic of this thread.

In the very early 60s I became a subscriber to Edgar Cayce's work. Up into the early nineties, through those many years, I was a subscriber to a multitude of channelers, mystics, seers, remote viewers, and whatever other names you wish to apply to this phenomenon. After I became disillusioned with the channeled message, I began looking for objective evidence.

Among all the channelers I've ever studied, there were only three that I ever thought their message was unaffected by the reptilian/archonic influence. I based this interpretation on the nature of what these three were revealing regarding the reptilian/archonic influence on Humanity. I first learned about the reptilian influence in the mid seventies from one of these 'channelers'. Had there been an archonic influence involved with these three, the message they were revealing would never have come through.

Over nearly thirty years of reading every sort of telepathically implanted thought, presented by, well into a hundred different seers, I observed a reoccurring theme. This theme was not new to the clairvoyant phenomenon.

I am also somewhat a student of history. I noticed this same reoccurring theme goes all the way back to the Dawn of Man. This theme can be found in the words of the prophets of antiquity. It can be found in the religious dogma of the past two thousand years. It is ever present in the New Age message with its roots in the Astral.

This theme, to which I refer, is the concept that "there will be a bright new day" if only one stays focused on the 'god' of whatever dogma is being promoted. This reoccurring theme, throughout history, is what I characterize as "objective evidence".

Please note: when I use the term 'god', I am also referring to the contemporary concept that, "we are all creator-beings of our own reality", found within the dogma of the contemporary edition of this "everything is going to be O.K." telepathically implanted rhetoric.

There is absolutely no objective evidence, that can be presented by those supporting these concepts, to prove their subjective interpretations of the very personal experiences they are having are NOT being influenced by archonic entities.

Where are your thousands of years of prophetic documents.... documents that have all turned-out to be lies? How many thousands of predictions and messages of hope coming from these seers have never occurred, all the way back into antiquity?

Please refer to what I said in comment #1887:


"Indigenous Cultures required a lifetime of preparation for the 'chosen' individuals whose jobs were to go into the Astral on behalf of the tribe."

I'm aware of the word games that are played by supporters of these concepts, so don't bother with your "objective v. subjective" wordplay. It won't work.

I've already described the sort of objective evidence I'm referring to. Supporters of the types of telepathically implanted messages I've already described can offer no documents, photographs, or witnesses to their very personal experiences. This is the sort of objective evidence one needs to produce for their experiences to move from subjective imagination to objective reality.

So, Finefeather, as I stated in the beginning of this comment, I'm going to take a break from a policy, and offer you something I ran across back in the early 90s, just as my faith in the many seers I had been subscribing to was crumbling. This work came from one of those three 'channelers' I referred to earlier. I was fortunate to find a copy of this book on the internet:

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vida_alien/warinheaven/warheaven-III.htm

It's a relatively easy read, and one can get through it in a week of evenings.

As I've stated many times on this forum, I do not subscribe to telepathically implanted thoughts. The content of the above linked book is derived from telepathically implanted thoughts. One will find the content of this book much different from the material coming from most clairvoyants from throughout history.

Could there be something to the observation that the astral is being patrolled by archonic entities whose purpose is to confuse and trap the Mass of Humanity?

You be the judge.

It is not my intention, Finefeather, of starting a debate with you, in this thread, over the issue of good v. evil with regard to telepathic thoughts and your personal experiences in the astral. This thread is about archonic energies and the Abject Evil they represent. The comments I make are presentations of an evidential trail related to that particular influence.

There are other threads where you can debate the merits of your telepathically implanted interpretation.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


from 4:20 onward

qKE9FOlto1g

Thank you Houman, I love this guy. NOn judgment, love and persistence do make miracles. My family is a direct proof of it.

I would love to work with this approach with children. It would be hyper different from what i do now and probably more useful.

[Jeffrey]

From Plasma Crystals and Helical Structures Towards Inorganic Living Matter

Tsytovich, V. N.; Morfill, G. E.; Fortov, V. E.; Gusein-Zade, N. G.; Klumov, B. A.; Vladimirov, S. V.





New Journal of Physics, Volume 9, Issue 8, pp. 263 (2007).
Complex plasmas may naturally self-organize themselves into stable interacting helical structures that exhibit features normally attributed to organic living matter. The self-organization is based on non-trivial physical mechanisms of plasma interactions involving over-screening of plasma polarization. As a result, each helical string composed of solid microparticles is topologically and dynamically controlled by plasma fluxes leading to particle charging and over-screening, the latter providing attraction even among helical strings of the same charge sign. These interacting complex structures exhibit thermodynamic and evolutionary features thought to be peculiar only to living matter such as bifurcations that serve as 'memory marks', self-duplication, metabolic rates in a thermodynamically open system, and non-Hamiltonian dynamics. We examine the salient features of this new complex 'state of soft matter' in light of the autonomy, evolution, progenity and autopoiesis principles used to define life. It is concluded that complex self-organized plasma structures exhibit all the necessary properties to qualify them as candidates for inorganic living matter that may exist in space provided certain conditions allow them to evolve naturally.


Source: http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2007NJPh....9..263T

The Earth's Plasmasphere: http://plasmasphere.nasa.gov/

COLD PLASMA LAYER DETECTED HIGH ABOVE EARTH: http://news.discovery.com/earth/earth-cold-plasma-layer-found-120127.html

http://web.mit.edu/space/www/helio.review/axford.suess.html

Local Bubble


The Local Bubble is a cavity in the interstellar medium (ISM) in the Orion Arm of the Milky Way which contains the Local Interstellar Cloud and G-cloud (as well as others). It is at least 300 light years across and has a neutral hydrogen density of about 0.05 atoms per cubic centimetre, or approximately one tenth of the average for the ISM in the Milky Way (0.5 atoms/cc), and one sixth of the "Local Fluff", or Local Interstellar Cloud (0.3 atoms/cc). The hot diffuse gas in the Local Bubble emits X-rays.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Bubble


http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2009/23dec_voyager/

http://www.arpast.org/newsevents/articles/darkplasma.pdf

Holographic Archetypes: http://ionamiller.weebly.com/holographic-archetypes.html

DNA is a Fractal Antenna: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21457072

Hungry Ghosts and Energy Systems: http://www.spi.com.sg/spi_files/hungry_ghost_2003/main07.htm

The True Nature of the Dark Force: http://www.clarity-of-being.org/dark...rue-nature.htm

[Timreh]

I have a friend who (happens to be a Christian) has been asking me questions...

Edit: To save me time..
What is a good book, audio or video presentation that outlines the whole agenda here?
Something not too heavy if that is possible?

[wynderer]

Houman will likely have some good suggestions -- i think that Jim Marrs 'Alien Agenda' & David Jacobs 'The Threat' are 2 pretty accurate accounts of what's going on, on the ET side of the archons -- there's a video on this thread that i think Vivek posted many posts back that is a good overview also, something about 'The Truth ..' [hoping someone else will remember & post it for you]


I have a friend who (happens to be a Christian) has been asking me questions...

Edit: To save me time..
What is a good book, audio or video presentation that outlines the whole agenda here?
Something not too heavy if that is possible?

[Finefeather]

removed to avoid controversy

[observer]

However, one thing amongst others is to say that after the physical there is only the astral and it does not go further (what about the causal levels thaught in hiduis and occultism) , or yet, that souls do die (there is no eternity...), is more difficult for me to digest. It is quite clear that some archonic theocracy may damage the soul, but no eternal soul or soul transference to other state of being, and nothing past astral realms, I find it difficult to accept.


The available objective evidence on what you are questioning, Flash, is that this particular density (universe) is an electromagnetic structure, i.e., an Electric Universe (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4zixnWeE8A).

That which has been called the 'Astral', i.e., the Fourth Dimension can be likened to a 'sideband frequency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sideband)' of the main carrier (transmitting) band, as is observed in radio frequency transmissions.

The records from antiquity will show there are many dimensions above this third, and subsequently (what we call) the fourth dimension.

The records form that same antiquity will also show that this particular third density (dimension) has been locked-down by some sort of electromagnetic matrix.... most likely a matrix that is manipulated (controlled) from this Astral (side-band) dimension.

These are all clear interpretations gleaned from the book, "War in Heaven"

This understanding is the basis for which I have made the caution: "be careful of where you go play".

I would further advise anyone who is 'playing' in the Astral, to seek-out The Great Spirit that exists above (outside) that matrix, if one can figure-out the traps that have been placed to prevent this.

The evidence will indicate, from antiquity, that the color of Unconditional Love is GOLDEN - not pure white.

Pure White Light is part of the trap. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuEBjfbG0-w)
(move timer over to 2 min.: 20 sec.)
....and continue, here.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEGNGxEe1kk&feature=relmfu)
[I would further recommend listening to the entire Robert Morning Sky lecture.]

[wynderer]

thank you for your post, Observer -- another warning from a wise person, for those who have ears to hear

a question -- i've brought this up before, re the Gnostic belief/knowledge [?] that this entire 3D universe is controlled by the same archons who control Earth -- am i understanding this correctly? -- & that this is supported by a true scientific understanding of the electromagnetic nature of this universe/dimension? the entire universe, the one we see thru Hubble, etc?

if so, i am SO out of 3D when i leave this body






However, one thing amongst others is to say that after the physical there is only the astral and it does not go further (what about the causal levels thaught in hiduis and occultism) , or yet, that souls do die (there is no eternity...), is more difficult for me to digest. It is quite clear that some archonic theocracy may damage the soul, but no eternal soul or soul transference to other state of being, and nothing past astral realms, I find it difficult to accept.


The available objective evidence on what you are questioning, Flash, is that this particular density (universe) is an electromagnetic structure, i.e., an Electric Universe (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4zixnWeE8A).

That which has been called the 'Astral', i.e., the Fourth Dimension can be likened to a 'sideband frequency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sideband)' of the main carrier (transmitting) band, as is observed in radio frequency transmissions.

The records from antiquity will show there are many dimensions above this third, and subsequently (what we call) the fourth dimension.

The records form that same antiquity will also show that this particular third density (dimension) has been locked-down by some sort of electromagnetic matrix.... most likely a matrix that is manipulated (controlled) from this Astral (side-band) dimension.

These are all clear interpretations gleaned from the book, "War in Heaven"

This understanding is the basis for which I have made the caution: "be careful of where you go play".

I would further advise anyone who is 'playing' in the Astral, to seek-out The Great Spirit that exists above (outside) that matrix, if one can figure-out the traps that have been placed to prevent this.

The evidence will indicate, from antiquity, that the color of Unconditional Love is GOLDEN - not pure white.

Pure White Light is part of the trap. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuEBjfbG0-w)
(move timer over to 2 min.: 20 sec.)
....and continue, here.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEGNGxEe1kk&feature=relmfu)
[I would further recommend listening to the entire Robert Morning Sky lecture.]

[Beren]

It`s impossible to neglect the fact of the sheer power the soul has. A soul is a direct offspring of the Source -God-Creator.
While core is intact and is God ,rest of it is continually creating new kids(souls) and sends them into quantum field of experience in existence with Love.
Free will is granted right away so souls choose what they will experience.
With each choice come the effect of the chosen experience.

While experiencing various things some souls do get trapped (as kids do) in fixations of sorts. Fixation of fear that something bad will happen to them or that the promise of God is not going to be fulfilled.
God`s promise is always the highest- you are my children -my heirs and Gods aswell. Everything is yours and you are allpowerfull and are Love - because you are of me.

Some just can`t believe this because of various reasons connected with fear.
Hence they build mind pattern of spiritual fortress and spiritual weapons to protect them from their own fixation and fear. In reality that`s non existent but nevertheless they BELIEVE it.
By believing it they enforce it with inherited all powerfulness and then we got evil.

Rooted in fear it was birthed as a force afterwards.

Some other souls are in between field of trusting them and trusting in God`s promise and Love. And there are others who fully trust God.
All of those three groups are generating unimaginable energy quantum field upon where they weave their stories of life and experience.

God is above this since God is.
God is everything .
God is Love.

But through those soul experiences God experience all those emotions of his children.
God knows that all is well and that all children will return home- in this form or another.
BUT!!!
But all that was caused will have its effect. So every choice ever done will bear fruit.

Wisdom is to see this connection and trust God`s highest promise.
To give up fear as basis energy for it`s very destructive as we saw through this thread .

All souls and spirits that became demons and monsters in this or that reality were one time God`s pure souls.
But since they chose this way , they will eat their fruits until the end.

We will honor their choice by delivering the effect upon them.
And only God will save all souls.

I tell you brothers and sisters here: by standing for the light and trusting God`s promise -will have an eternal impact for all.
Even on those fallen ones so they can finally feel that God was not lying when promise was being made.

Traps on our path are set by other souls who embraced fear.
Fear not!

And Love will lead you through any field of experience you desire for, unattached to it and living energy of life and Love will be your own imprint.

[wynderer]

from RumorMillNews -- i don't agree w/all of it, but i think he may be right about this: -- i'd say the warning applies even more strongly to playing around in the astral

'Stay away from even reading these "messages" full of subconscious energy cordings, implants, and invisible energy vortex traps that will have you believing they are perfectly safe and harmless fun.'



When Channelers Repeat "Creator Decrees" You Know The Slavers Are The Creators Referred To, Right?

Posted By: mroxygen Date: Monday, 27-Aug-2012 01:19:37

I have written many articles on how channelers and their messages can never be trusted, for the voices in their heads are never "Divinely" protected, because SOURCE never judges, and machines and black arts practitioners with agendas transmit the voices.

So, anyone telling you to "worship" something or somebody or an alien "lord" must have a selfish agenda because SOURCE requires NO worship. And remember,the only requirement for being illuminati is that you worship some sort of diety. So, they must own the whole worship something OUTSIDE you game, call it by any name is ok with them.

Long ago I realized "leaders" or "politicians" are those who jump in front of the popular tides and take credit for whatever is organically emerging in spite of them, just to scam us and co-opt and pervert our strong implanted programming to worship authority outside ourselves.

You are SPIRIT in your heart, not your mind. It takes practice to have the right conversation. Always speak it out loud, pretend your heart has ears, and then listen from the physical direction of your heart for the reply. This is what "go within" means. The aliens killed Jesus for trying to tell you this.

So simple, so revolutionary. Go within.

So when a voice in the head person claims to be announcing a "Creator's Decree" you know right away it must be an alien slaver scam.

Since True SOURCE AND ITS LIGHTBEINGS NEVER CHANNEL, the "creator" referred to (you are supposed to bow before) is always part of one of the created-this-realm-in-the-first-place aliens that used techno-magic to stretch the NOW into time, and then trap your SPIRIT in time, and then glue it to a body and then lower and lower IT further into the artificial only-existing-to-imprison-us time, dimension, and duality worlds.

Stay away from even reading these "messages" full of subconscious energy cordings, implants, and invisible energy vortex traps that will have you believing they are perfectly safe and harmless fun.

Do not fall for it unless you never want to return to your true home, the Timeless Now Universe Of True Light - for no other reason than to be devoid of any further suffering and control.


http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=250589

[heyokah]

-snip-

I would further advise anyone who is 'playing' in the Astral, to seek-out The Great Spirit that exists above (outside) that matrix, if one can figure-out the traps that have been placed to prevent this.

The evidence will indicate, from antiquity, that the color of Unconditional Love is GOLDEN - not pure white.

Pure White Light is part of the trap. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuEBjfbG0-w)
(move timer over to 2 min.: 20 sec.)
....and continue, here.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEGNGxEe1kk&feature=relmfu)
[I would further recommend listening to the entire Robert Morning Sky lecture.]

observer, thank you for pointing at Robert Morningsky's presentation of The Terra Papers.

These new video copies are much better than they used to be. The constant background noise has deminished, so listening is much more agreeable now.

I'm sure you won't mind me posting this one, as it's Well Worth Watching .


mTUuQtwAomM

[observer]

Click-on forwarding arrow to see content of heyokah's comment #1945

Thank you heyokah for finding and posting the entire Part 2 of this lecture.

We will all know, by the amount of thanks your comment receives, if anyone is paying attention to what Morningsky is suggesting.

- update -

One of the best ways of avoiding the 'confrontational imps' who tend to roam the pages of forums and are personal hit artists, is to engage them with documentation. If they are unwilling to view what you have to offer, unwilling to be responsive to your message and resorts to the illogical, or the confrontational at length while avoiding substance, why should they be indulged?

Obviously they shouldn't be.

[wynderer]

below is one of my posts from the hybrids & clones thread -- i'm reposting it here because i think that ET/alien abductions are directly related to playing in the astral planes --

especially related to the practice of astral sex -- i couldn't read much in the 'Having sex w/other side' thread -- it's quite horrifying to me, seeing what sort of future awaits those who are using their energies this way, & having strong suspicions re who/what some of your astral sex partners really are

so here's my post re abductee memory retrieval:

the problem w/memory retrieval [as i see it] is that the memory suppression techniques are quite sophisticated -- as Observer says, they are very clever at what they do -- apparently they install implants, backed up w/suggestions/commands, given to our minds when they are in a highly suggestible state, to not remember -- there is some evidence that suicide programming is installed in some if they should begin to remember

then there are the screen memories -- a brutal abduction scene [like the common one of being immobilized on a table w/Greys doing painful, scary things to your body ]-- these experiences/memories are sometimes overlaid w/an implanted memory of the table scene being a nice friendly 'contact'

to show how easy it is for them to manipulate images in the human mind -- there are accounts of men abductees having sex w/what appears to be some hot chick, who suddenly turns into their mother or their grandmother -- i guess the men's reactions to this are a source of energy/info for the controllers

all of which makes retrieving actual memories rather difficult -- some folks apparently are finding the methods of Steve Richards & Dr Malaanga [sp] helpful [both talked about on this thread] -- i personally looked for a hypnotherapist who is aware of the screen memories

[Chester]

For any member interested in my reply to NancyV's comment #1860, click-on forwarding arrow.


observer's reply in another thread

Yo - Observer... I often see you say, "Click on the forwarding arrow," but I can't figure out what that is or where it is... please, help me out. Thanks justoneman

[observer]

For any member interested in my reply to NancyV's comment #1860, click-on forwarding arrow.


observer's reply in another thread

Yo - Observer... I often see you say, "Click on the forwarding arrow," but I can't figure out what that is or where it is... please, help me out. Thanks justoneman

Look at the first line in the "quote box" (in above case) it reads "Posted by observer". Just after my nic there is a 'blue icon' that looks something like >>.

That is the 'forwarding arrow'. It looks very much like the 'fast forward' symbol on a recording device.

Perhaps for clarity, I should change the term to 'forwarding icon'.

- update -

I was just advised that all members don't see the blue arrows ( >>), that some members only see the word (here). I wasn't aware that every member didn't see the icon the way I do. Now I understand why this can be confusing.

[wynderer]

from this link in Wade Frazier's most recent post:

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/brianmem.htm#attack

'Brian’s early days of exploring free energy and other fringe science topics, one of them was the UFO phenomenon. During his public work on UFOs, Brian was approached by a high-ranking military official to perform UFO-related research for the USA’s military. It was a cloak-and-dagger operation, and Brian wanted nothing to do with it. The USA’s military is deeply into the UFO issue, and its public denials are official lies. The day that Brian returned home after refusing that offer he nearly died in an incident that Brian believed was the military’s response to his refusal. Brian believed that they used exotic weaponry to try to kill him, and they nearly succeeded. Brian’s health never recovered from the incident, and I believe that it shortened his life. When Brian told me the story, he told it in a light-hearted fashion, finishing his story with “Thanks, guys. I was their guinea pig.” The closest thing that I saw to Brian publicly telling what happened was in the prologue to his last book. Brian’s encounters were similar to Ted’s.

In the circles that I have run around in, surviving a murder attempt is how people “join the club” of high-level activists. Nearly everybody whom I respect in the free energy field knows or believes that the situation is conjoined with the extraterrestrial issue. The motivation to keep the lid on the ET situation is not to prevent a War of the Worlds panic amongst the public, but to keep the public ignorant of the technologies that come with ETs, such as free energy and anti-gravity. '

posting this because i have been trying to explain in this thread that shamanic & metaphysical methods do not work against such personalized hi-weaponry attacks -- at least one of the attacks at me came from 4D into physical 3D -- & that black helicopter tried to drown me

one way this ties into Houman's thread is that some of the hi-level hooded figures in the photos posted of the satanic blood rituals -- some of them are hi-ranking guys & gals in our military

an abductee who is waking up & remembering -- depending on what one 'remembers' -- well, some of us have seen stuff during all those 'missing time' episodes -- maybe someone doesn't want us talking

[observer]

[....snip]

....posting this because i have been trying to explain in this thread that shamanic & metaphysical methods do not work against such personalized hi-weaponry attacks [....snip]

I would agree with you completely, wynderer.

Just recall how the 'Ghost Dance' had no real effect on the bullets during the 'Wave of Western Civilization'.

Playing in the Astral is not the solution.

Draw a line in the sand, make a stand and fight. Hence, my earlier 'arm yourself' comment.

If one discovers that today "is a good day to die", than have a full understanding of how to get past the traps....

So one doesn't have to return and do it all again.

[nomadguy]

Just recall how the 'Ghost Dance' had no real effect on the bullets during the 'Wave of Western Civilization'.

Playing in the Astral is not the solution.

Very true, however do not give up on it completely.
I am not speaking solely about astral techniques.
~My meaning is that we do not know ourselves, we do not know our real abilities and this also may be something that is being suppressed.

edit/adding
Heart is our true intelligence, only it is very subtle and our loud brains don't seem to pay attention to it very much.

[wynderer]

i found this in a James Bartley article:

'Occult Ritual activity is practiced in areas where electromagnetic anomalies exist because it is easier to create portals to allow beings from other dimensions into our space-time continuum. '

http://www.whale.to/b/bartley1.html#THE_X_FACTOR_–_Resilience_to_manipulation_and_mind_control__

from some personal experiences, i think that the darkside pretty much has control over almost all of the natural energy portals on Earth -- likely our National Parks were selected on this basis

[angel-sylph]

an abductee who is waking up & remembering -- depending on what one 'remembers' -- well, some of us have seen stuff during all those 'missing time' episodes -- maybe someone doesn't want us talking

Very True!!!

I have little bits and pieces of information about what I have been through (satanic, mk ultra, milab, etc) and I am trying to piece it all together. Sometimes all I have is very strong feelings and a knowing about something that happened - and I have learned to trust those feelings.

When I do talk about it - at least sometimes - i get hit with severe headaches that wipe me out for days. But most of the time my brain just feels scrambled and I have a hard time getting the thoughts and feelings out - which is why I don't post much...

[wynderer]

an abductee who is waking up & remembering -- depending on what one 'remembers' -- well, some of us have seen stuff during all those 'missing time' episodes -- maybe someone doesn't want us talking

Very True!!!

I have little bits and pieces of information about what I have been through (satanic, mk ultra, milab, etc) and I am trying to piece it all together. Sometimes all I have is very strong feelings and a knowing about something that happened - and I have learned to trust those feelings.

When I do talk about it - at least sometimes - i get hit with severe headaches that wipe me out for days. But most of the time my brain just feels scrambled and I have a hard time getting the thoughts and feelings out - which is why I don't post much...

http://www.whale.to/b/bartley1.html#BLATANT_SPIRITUAL_WARFARE__

BLATANT SPIRITUAL WARFARE

Reptilians have a profoundly disturbing ability to manipulate the health of abductees especially those who are striving to obtain hard core information about them and their nefarious activities. They will even inflict physical pain upon abductees who "don't go along with the program." Once again Barbara Bartholic has done pioneering work in this regard having known first hand of a number of deaths, which stemmed from research related activities. These "reprisals" have caused people to give up their investigations. Moreover, the health of certain members of the abductee's family is often targeted for reprisals.

Many abductees who have had consciously remembered reptilian encounters are victims of extreme back pain which was instigated by the reptilians. This form of back pain results in extreme emotional and physical anguish, which is harvested by the reptilians as an energy source. I know personally a woman who is in her sixties and who refused to cooperate in a love-bonding scenario( a love bite set up by the aliens) with a twenty two year old male and was subsequently punished for her transgressions. She was immobilized on her back for several days with excruciating back pain.
MEDICAL AND HEALTH ISSUES OF ABDUCTEES

If these types of physical manipulations were not so common I would not suggest they are part of the modus operandi of the reptilians, but they are in fact very common. They represent a patterned data correlation, which cannot be ignored by "researchers." It is not surprising when you consider that some of these abductees have extra vertebrae, extra ribs, major organs shifted around to off the wall places etc.

The reptilians manipulate specific parts of the abductees body such as the liver, kidneys, cardiovascular system, sexual organs and so forth for the express purpose of depriving them of good health, which is one of the most insidious forms of control and manipulation that I can conceive of. Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, allergies, Candidiasis, Yeast Infections, Fibromyalgia and numerous other illnesses and the whole gamut of gynecological problems are common amongst female abductees. Regarding the gynecological problems, Barbara Bartholic says "sooner or later it will sink in why that part of the female anatomy keeps breaking down."

Unfortunately, when women seek relief for illnesses from male physicians ignorant of the unique problems women have, these abduction related illnesses are not understood by many researchers to be related to the abduction syndrome.

Often times the abductees will undergo extensive physical examinations only to be told by their physicians that there is nothing wrong with them. If anything they find the by-products of the illnesses such as infections and the like but seldom find the root source of the problem let alone a cure. These types of imposed illnesses can plague abductees for years. These illnesses come up again and again within the life experience of countless abductees and yet for the most part they are not considered to be an aspect of the abduction syndrome.

When the reptilians have decided that an abductee has gone "too far" they will exact their preferred method of retribution which is Cancer. It is an excruciating way to die and the reptilians extract every last iota of physical and emotional anguish from their victim until their demise.'

edit to add -- the last paragraph, above, describes Dr Karla Turner's death

[wynderer]

i have been requested on another thread by one of the mods to restrict my quoting of others w/o comments, so i fixed the particular post referred to & will attempt to adhere to guidelines henceforth

however, sometimes a researcher sees patterns that i, as an individual abductee, cannot see

also, i thought it better to post an overview of the pattern of health & medical problems of abductees, rather than listing all my own, which did not begin till i woke up during an abduction






an abductee who is waking up & remembering -- depending on what one 'remembers' -- well, some of us have seen stuff during all those 'missing time' episodes -- maybe someone doesn't want us talking

Very True!!!

I have little bits and pieces of information about what I have been through (satanic, mk ultra, milab, etc) and I am trying to piece it all together. Sometimes all I have is very strong feelings and a knowing about something that happened - and I have learned to trust those feelings.

When I do talk about it - at least sometimes - i get hit with severe headaches that wipe me out for days. But most of the time my brain just feels scrambled and I have a hard time getting the thoughts and feelings out - which is why I don't post much...

http://www.whale.to/b/bartley1.html#BLATANT_SPIRITUAL_WARFARE__

BLATANT SPIRITUAL WARFARE

Reptilians have a profoundly disturbing ability to manipulate the health of abductees especially those who are striving to obtain hard core information about them and their nefarious activities. They will even inflict physical pain upon abductees who "don't go along with the program." Once again Barbara Bartholic has done pioneering work in this regard having known first hand of a number of deaths, which stemmed from research related activities. These "reprisals" have caused people to give up their investigations. Moreover, the health of certain members of the abductee's family is often targeted for reprisals.

Many abductees who have had consciously remembered reptilian encounters are victims of extreme back pain which was instigated by the reptilians. This form of back pain results in extreme emotional and physical anguish, which is harvested by the reptilians as an energy source. I know personally a woman who is in her sixties and who refused to cooperate in a love-bonding scenario( a love bite set up by the aliens) with a twenty two year old male and was subsequently punished for her transgressions. She was immobilized on her back for several days with excruciating back pain.
MEDICAL AND HEALTH ISSUES OF ABDUCTEES

If these types of physical manipulations were not so common I would not suggest they are part of the modus operandi of the reptilians, but they are in fact very common. They represent a patterned data correlation, which cannot be ignored by "researchers." It is not surprising when you consider that some of these abductees have extra vertebrae, extra ribs, major organs shifted around to off the wall places etc.

The reptilians manipulate specific parts of the abductees body such as the liver, kidneys, cardiovascular system, sexual organs and so forth for the express purpose of depriving them of good health, which is one of the most insidious forms of control and manipulation that I can conceive of. Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, allergies, Candidiasis, Yeast Infections, Fibromyalgia and numerous other illnesses and the whole gamut of gynecological problems are common amongst female abductees. Regarding the gynecological problems, Barbara Bartholic says "sooner or later it will sink in why that part of the female anatomy keeps breaking down."

Unfortunately, when women seek relief for illnesses from male physicians ignorant of the unique problems women have, these abduction related illnesses are not understood by many researchers to be related to the abduction syndrome.

Often times the abductees will undergo extensive physical examinations only to be told by their physicians that there is nothing wrong with them. If anything they find the by-products of the illnesses such as infections and the like but seldom find the root source of the problem let alone a cure. These types of imposed illnesses can plague abductees for years. These illnesses come up again and again within the life experience of countless abductees and yet for the most part they are not considered to be an aspect of the abduction syndrome.

When the reptilians have decided that an abductee has gone "too far" they will exact their preferred method of retribution which is Cancer. It is an excruciating way to die and the reptilians extract every last iota of physical and emotional anguish from their victim until their demise.'

edit to add -- the last paragraph, above, describes Dr Karla Turner's death

[Houman]

from http://evelorgen.com/wp/news/the-triad-color-test-tct-designed-by-dr-corrado-malanga/
and http://flashmentalsimulation.wordpress.com/liberation-techniques/cct/

A nice article on Dr Malanga's Triad Color Test

watch this first (and try the test on yourself)

Pj-zpzd2o58

answer this question: “what is the opposite color of red?”


then read this http://flashmentalsimulation.wordpress.com/liberation-techniques/cct/

(in that order if you don't want to introduce a bias in the test)

Houman

[Jeffrey]

From Plasma Crystals and Helical Structures Towards Inorganic Living Matter

Tsytovich, V. N.; Morfill, G. E.; Fortov, V. E.; Gusein-Zade, N. G.; Klumov, B. A.; Vladimirov, S. V.





New Journal of Physics, Volume 9, Issue 8, pp. 263 (2007).
Complex plasmas may naturally self-organize themselves into stable interacting helical structures that exhibit features normally attributed to organic living matter. The self-organization is based on non-trivial physical mechanisms of plasma interactions involving over-screening of plasma polarization. As a result, each helical string composed of solid microparticles is topologically and dynamically controlled by plasma fluxes leading to particle charging and over-screening, the latter providing attraction even among helical strings of the same charge sign. These interacting complex structures exhibit thermodynamic and evolutionary features thought to be peculiar only to living matter such as bifurcations that serve as 'memory marks', self-duplication, metabolic rates in a thermodynamically open system, and non-Hamiltonian dynamics. We examine the salient features of this new complex 'state of soft matter' in light of the autonomy, evolution, progenity and autopoiesis principles used to define life. It is concluded that complex self-organized plasma structures exhibit all the necessary properties to qualify them as candidates for inorganic living matter that may exist in space provided certain conditions allow them to evolve naturally.


Source: http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2007NJPh....9..263T

The Earth's Plasmasphere: http://plasmasphere.nasa.gov/

COLD PLASMA LAYER DETECTED HIGH ABOVE EARTH: http://news.discovery.com/earth/earth-cold-plasma-layer-found-120127.html

http://web.mit.edu/space/www/helio.review/axford.suess.html

Local Bubble


The Local Bubble is a cavity in the interstellar medium (ISM) in the Orion Arm of the Milky Way which contains the Local Interstellar Cloud and G-cloud (as well as others). It is at least 300 light years across and has a neutral hydrogen density of about 0.05 atoms per cubic centimetre, or approximately one tenth of the average for the ISM in the Milky Way (0.5 atoms/cc), and one sixth of the "Local Fluff", or Local Interstellar Cloud (0.3 atoms/cc). The hot diffuse gas in the Local Bubble emits X-rays.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Bubble


http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2009/23dec_voyager/

http://www.arpast.org/newsevents/articles/darkplasma.pdf

Holographic Archetypes: http://ionamiller.weebly.com/holographic-archetypes.html

DNA is a Fractal Antenna: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21457072

Hungry Ghosts and Energy Systems: http://www.spi.com.sg/spi_files/hungry_ghost_2003/main07.htm

The True Nature of the Dark Force: http://www.clarity-of-being.org/dark...rue-nature.htm

Check out the articles in these links, very interesting stuff.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?48863-The-Mechanics-of-the-Matrix&p=545791&viewfull=1#post545791

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?48863-The-Mechanics-of-the-Matrix&p=545793&viewfull=1#post545793

Some excerpts (from the articles, not my words):




... The universe is filled with massive clouds of dust. From past studies, scientists have learned that this cosmic dust can, in the presence of plasma, creates formations known as plasma crystals. An international team of researchers published a study in the August 14, 2007, issue of the New Journal of Physics that indicates that these crystals may be more sophisticated than anyone realized. In simulations involving cosmic dust, the researchers witnessed the formation of plasma crystals displaying some of the elementary characteristics of life -- DNA-like structure, autonomous behavior, reproduction and evolution.

... When plasma comes into contact with a dust cloud, dust particles gather an electric charge by sucking up electrons from the surrounding plasma. This core of electrons in turn pulls in positively charged ions, forming plasma crystals. In the scientists' simulations, which were performed on the International Space Station and in a zero-gravity environment at a German research facility, the plasma crystals sometimes developed into corkscrew shapes or even the double-helix shape of DNA. These helix-shaped crystals retain an electric charge and show what the researchers called a self-organizing ability.

... Like DNA, the dust spirals can store information. They do so in the scaffolding of their bodies, as they have two stable states - one with a large diameter and the other with a small one - so a spiral could carry a series of wide and narrow sections. The specific order of these sections can be copied from one dust spiral to another, like a genetic code. The researchers aren't sure how it happens, but they think each narrow section of spiral creates a permanent vortex of moving dust outside it. So if another spiral drifts alongside it, that vortex pinches the same length into its narrow state.

... The spirals even feed, in a sense, as they need fresh plasma to survive and grow, suggesting they may compete with one another for food. Since they are also capable of passing on their genetic code, then perhaps they could evolve into more complex structures.

[Cristian]

If one thing comes to mind after almost 100 pages of this important thread, is the thought ...is this a losing battle , or do we have the means to fix this .

Users like observer, made a very good point , of why this is a lost battle for humanity, and the need to focus on the personal struggle .

My experiences , the little knowledge and wisdom i managed to came by point to a more optimistic scenario.

We may very well lose this battle, but it will be unforgivable to surrender , even if we only have a slim chance , one shot in the dark. After all , not all of us are born in France :yield: .

I remember , at some point i was backed into a corner, by entities described in this thread. When all that you have left is fighting...you fight. You stand up.
But what i came to realize, there are forces way more powerful then this demonic dudes, forces that made sure i was not overwhelmed , but instead I was fed to the wolves, for learning and understanding.

I dont like channelings , they are not a trademark of higher loving beings. When the Universe steps up and helps you, sometimes you dont even realize . You have to playback the movie several times to see that between you and the demons, there was somebody else there.
That is the esssence of true unconditional love. Help and move on, unnoticed.

So i do feel the Universe is the man with the plan. We dont understand the plan, there is a storm coming no doubt , but the end result is all that matters.

One last thing, there are people, and Bill is the best example , that feel and know they are here for the human race , and not for themselves . Their very presence here is proof the Universe decided to make some changes.

Is it possible that observer is wrong, regarding the fate of humanity?

[Sierra]

It is my firm belief, no matter what battle we lose, we always win the war. :) Good prevails. Always. Growth prevails. Always. As I get older, the long view becomes more and more real to me.

I also agree that the Universe is on a critical path to huge changes. We are a part and parcel of that change. We choose what we choose. There is enough information out there to realize we are in the time of choice, as described by a Hopi Prophecy. All of us can choose whatever direction we want to go, and it adamantly, vehemently, critically, absolutely does not have to be the direction we have gone our whole lives ... if that is our choice.

I'd really like to know, I'd really like it if Daughter of Time, JustOneMan, any milab, any abductee could describe what helped them process their experience. :) How long did it take? Is there still more stuff to process? Does the self ever really become clear what happened? Is one still under control at times? I apologize if this has already been discussed, but this sort of info can bear repeating, yes?

Thanks, Sierra :)

[Flash]

What was the helping hand Chris 82 and how did you noticed it?

[Cristian]

In my opinion we are most vulnerable when we first begin to awake. And I dont mean posting on forums, how we are gods and co-creators and how love and light is our motto.

No. I mean true awakening .
Like being drunk one night, and suddently experience the overwhelming feeling of being connected with everything, a feeling of profound love towards all Creation, animals, humans, everything...a feeling that makes you cry and smile at the same time.

If you start walking this path, you get noticed, and they will try to derail you. You are vulnerable because your vibrations are not high enough, you dont know how to deal with them and also you can experience traumatic events that can really set you off course.

Constantly feeling their presence by day, and having the most horrible nightmares EVERY time you go to sleep ... you need help and guidance.

But the Universe that decided to awake you in the first place, decided that IT wants to act and speak through you in the future , knows when to step in. You suddently meet ppl that can help, you feel a higher loving being holding your hand. No words, no channeling, just holding your hand.


What was the helping hand Chris 82 and how did you noticed it?

I got lost many times in the so called astral world. One time i was in a particularly bad place to be. If you dont know how they operate..well they like to get you in a paralized state and then do nasty things to you , like leaving you with 0 energy, programing , and you can even wake up with other entities in your body.
So like i said, even if you have some experience in dealing with them sometimes you get caught on the wrong foot. When this happens i noticed there is somebody watching over me, and manages to abruptly wake me up.

I dont think many ppl realize , what the astral world is, and why it's very important to our daily reality. How the two dimensions are closely linked.
I believe the astral dimension is the gateway they use to enter this dimension. I believe some of the most important answers can be found there.

[Elly]

In my opinion we are most vulnerable when we first begin to awake. And I dont mean posting on forums, how we are gods and co-creators and how love and light is our motto.

From my perspective, that makes sense. Almost all of my unusual experiences happened in my teens, a period where I was reflecting heavily on life, looking for answers and having epiphanies. I experienced many minor "incidents": OBE's, sleep paralysis, unusual dreams, terror attacks, and one traumatic nightmare involving a Reptilian.

POST EDIT

Althought I don't have the same knowledge as members in this thread, I thought I'd share more about my experiences from my perspective.

With OBE's, I never enjoyed it because it was at first unwilling minor experiences that I could not control. The farther I went was the ceiling of my room. I made it stop because I felt I was not informed enought to experience it. I willingly tried it again in my early 20's but did not pursue it because I think it led me to awaken in a dream state surrounded by greys around my bed. At that time, I read a book about abductee's experiences and I surely did not want to go there. So, I felt I had nothing positive to gain from OBE'S.

Sleep paralysis events were associated with the presence of a black shadow being (human in form). It wasn't too scary but it was very disturbing. I would wake up in my sleep, not being able to move or see, feeling a dark hand touching my hand and moving. It felt distinctively real, very very physical for a dream state. Each time it happened, it felt it was weird and uncomfortable. It developed. After a while, as I was not seeing any positive in this "interaction", I asked it to stop. I did not allow it or them to contact me again. That was it.

Terror attacks were the worst. I'd wake up at night in a state of full fear, around the same time (12 or 2AM). It was always the same thing, I was instantly in terror, my heart racing, my mind was totally convinced that a demon was about to materialize in front of me. I could feel it, sense it, almost perceived it. The layer between the immaterial and the material felt really thin. I would deal with this idea for hours, until physical exhaustion. Each time, I tried hard to control my fear, but that was useless. I tried to make the demon go away by confronting it, getting mad at it, asking to go away, without success. My fear grew only stronger and the idea more real. So the last time it happened, I changed my technic and saw my mind as a part of my body I had to regain control over. I forced my mind to refocus on a different idea, and my fear began to decrease, the grip lessened and the idea of a demon faded away. After this, I never experienced night terror attacks again.

[Chester]

In my opinion we are most vulnerable when we first begin to awake. And I dont mean posting on forums, how we are gods and co-creators and how love and light is our motto.

No. I mean true awakening .
Like being drunk one night, and suddently experience the overwhelming feeling of being connected with everything, a feeling of profound love towards all Creation, animals, humans, everything...a feeling that makes you cry and smile at the same time.

If you start walking this path, you get noticed, and they will try to derail you. You are vulnerable because your vibrations are not high enough, you dont know how to deal with them and also you can experience traumatic events that can really set you off course.

Constantly feeling their presence by day, and having the most horrible nightmares EVERY time you go to sleep ... you need help and guidance.

But the Universe that decided to awake you in the first place, decided that IT wants to act and speak through you in the future , knows when to step in. You suddently meet ppl that can help, you feel a higher loving being holding your hand. No words, no channeling, just holding your hand.


What was the helping hand Chris 82 and how did you noticed it?

I got lost many times in the so called astral world. One time i was in a particularly bad place to be. If you dont know how they operate..well they like to get you in a paralized state and then do nasty things to you , like leaving you with 0 energy, programing , and you can even wake up with other entities in your body.
So like i said, even if you have some experience in dealing with them sometimes you get caught on the wrong foot. When this happens i noticed there is somebody watching over me, and manages to abruptly wake me up.

I dont think many ppl realize , what the astral world is, and why it's very important to our daily reality. How the two dimensions are closely linked.
I believe the astral dimension is the gateway they use to enter this dimension. I believe some of the most important answers can be found there.

Each of us are different. But if my experience is of the norm, and considering I am now pretty well past the difficult stage, I can say that what you stated above is very, very true. When I was dead asleep, I didn't seem to have much troubles though I would classify that version of me as borderline psychopathic (I was extremely self centered... thought I was the beginning, middle and end of the entire universe... just ask my Mother) - but then at around age 19 I had my first awakening experience (though I also realize it was heavily archontically managed) and then not until recently have I been able to turn the tables on the whole thing, "take back my soul" so to speak, isolate the demon(s) inside (can be viewed as "the ego monster") and move that little bugger to the side such that my truest self can begin to run my own personal show.

Having said the above, I had a dip a few weeks back that I am still unhappy with (as to how I handled myself). The point of this statement is that the word - "vigilance" is the key. I suspect once one has "gotten on the radar" of these archontic energies, forces and even 3D humans who perhaps align with elements of the archontic structure, one is wise to maintain vigilance and well, in my case, I feel it is my personal responsibility to do so. Why I say that is because once one has an understanding (through direct experience) as to how most of this seems to work in our material/spiritual/empty dynamic, they have the ability to be of greater influence to others and thus one's responsibility with others (and oneself equally) is (to me) critical.

Anyways - just opinions... note: I say these things in part because I am a firm believer in one's personal integrity. By talking the talk, I am further held to walking the walk (which is material world manifestation of the talk).

justoneman

[Chester]

If one thing comes to mind after almost 100 pages of this important thread, is the thought ...is this a losing battle , or do we have the means to fix this .

Users like observer, made a very good point , of why this is a lost battle for humanity, and the need to focus on the personal struggle .

My experiences , the little knowledge and wisdom i managed to came by point to a more optimistic scenario.

We may very well lose this battle, but it will be unforgivable to surrender , even if we only have a slim chance , one shot in the dark. After all , not all of us are born in France :yield: .

I remember , at some point i was backed into a corner, by entities described in this thread. When all that you have left is fighting...you fight. You stand up.
But what i came to realize, there are forces way more powerful then this demonic dudes, forces that made sure i was not overwhelmed , but instead I was fed to the wolves, for learning and understanding.

I dont like channelings , they are not a trademark of higher loving beings. When the Universe steps up and helps you, sometimes you dont even realize . You have to playback the movie several times to see that between you and the demons, there was somebody else there.
That is the esssence of true unconditional love. Help and move on, unnoticed.

So i do feel the Universe is the man with the plan. We dont understand the plan, there is a storm coming no doubt , but the end result is all that matters.

One last thing, there are people, and Bill is the best example , that feel and know they are here for the human race , and not for themselves . Their very presence here is proof the Universe decided to make some changes.

Is it possible that observer is wrong, regarding the fate of humanity?

Wasn't Joan de Arc French?? Anyways, I agree 100%.

If there is one chance in one million bazzilion we could turn the tide such that the world we leave to our children has a clear shift from its apparent (to some) current direction then I am all and only about focusing on the how and manifesting that how in any way I can.

It is difficult indeed to be amongst those who "appear" to have given up or to have projected such a bleak picture that it seems we are hopelessly trapped, but I learned through some recent mistakes that there's only two choices as to how I can (at this point) properly handle those situations - the first choice is to lead with love as expressed through compassion (emphasized by the creator of this thread as well as many others) and if I see myself falling short, then know I simply must step aside until I can once again find it within me to allow compassion to lead my every thought and deed (which includes my postings in Avalon).

Anyways, I will never give up and in fact, I am certain I am one of those types that would always choose to return.

justone

[Chester]

It`s impossible to neglect the fact of the sheer power the soul has. A soul is a direct offspring of the Source -God-Creator.
While core is intact and is God ,rest of it is continually creating new kids(souls) and sends them into quantum field of experience in existence with Love.
Free will is granted right away so souls choose what they will experience.
With each choice come the effect of the chosen experience.

While experiencing various things some souls do get trapped (as kids do) in fixations of sorts. Fixation of fear that something bad will happen to them or that the promise of God is not going to be fulfilled.
God`s promise is always the highest- you are my children -my heirs and Gods aswell. Everything is yours and you are allpowerfull and are Love - because you are of me.

Some just can`t believe this because of various reasons connected with fear.
Hence they build mind pattern of spiritual fortress and spiritual weapons to protect them from their own fixation and fear. In reality that`s non existent but nevertheless they BELIEVE it.
By believing it they enforce it with inherited all powerfulness and then we got evil.

Rooted in fear it was birthed as a force afterwards.

Some other souls are in between field of trusting them and trusting in God`s promise and Love. And there are others who fully trust God.
All of those three groups are generating unimaginable energy quantum field upon where they weave their stories of life and experience.

God is above this since God is.
God is everything .
God is Love.

But through those soul experiences God experience all those emotions of his children.
God knows that all is well and that all children will return home- in this form or another.
BUT!!!
But all that was caused will have its effect. So every choice ever done will bear fruit.

Wisdom is to see this connection and trust God`s highest promise.
To give up fear as basis energy for it`s very destructive as we saw through this thread .

All souls and spirits that became demons and monsters in this or that reality were one time God`s pure souls.
But since they chose this way , they will eat their fruits until the end.

We will honor their choice by delivering the effect upon them.
And only God will save all souls.

I tell you brothers and sisters here: by standing for the light and trusting God`s promise -will have an eternal impact for all.
Even on those fallen ones so they can finally feel that God was not lying when promise was being made.

Traps on our path are set by other souls who embraced fear.
Fear not!

And Love will lead you through any field of experience you desire for, unattached to it and living energy of life and Love will be your own imprint.

Hi Beren, I hope you are able to answer the following.

I really enjoy your energy and for that reason, ever since I first discovered you as a member of Avalon (on Vivek's Drake thread under Conspiracy) I would always take my time in reading and absorbing your posts. The above post is of particular interest but I am a bit confused in some parts, so I hope you will help clear up my confusion. Note I left your entire post in tact but will now isolate where I am confused.

You start with -

"It`s impossible to neglect the fact of the sheer power the soul has. A soul is a direct offspring of the Source - God-Creator."

and then further down you state -

"All souls and spirits that became demons and monsters in this or that reality were one time God`s pure souls."

So my confusion is this - do you see "soul" the same as "spirit" and if not, please help me understand how you view each.

Thanks, Beren... Chester

[donk]

Often times the abductees will undergo extensive physical examinations only to be told by their physicians that there is nothing wrong with them. If anything they find the by-products of the illnesses such as infections and the like but seldom find the root source of the problem let alone a cure. These types of imposed illnesses can plague abductees for years. These illnesses come up again and again within the life experience of countless abductees and yet for the most part they are not considered to be an aspect of the abduction syndrome.

When the reptilians have decided that an abductee has gone "too far" they will exact their preferred method of retribution which is Cancer. It is an excruciating way to die and the reptilians extract every last iota of physical and emotional anguish from their victim until their demise.'

Well, either this, or a series of insanely coinceidental events is apparent in my life: my girlfriend has been going through soooo many of the "symptoms" of the abduction phenomenon, which has increasingly intensified as I learned (especially from this thread) and tried to share this info with her.

The other night I had a bizarre "battle" with "demons" jumping in (or surfacing) in her. The first episode (of about a dozen, ending with something using her to try to scratch then bite me, then herself) was one that may have been actually HER...looking wild-eyed at "someone" beyond me--she told me "they want to hurt you, you have to stop seeking them".

I found out last night, that a couple days before, on a day I somehow "forgot" her appt I had been so looking forward to where the ENT docs would analyze her MRI, that it revealed an inoperable brain tumor. She hasn't been able to give me any other details yet, though I am determined to not "forget" her next appt in a couple weeks.

Maybe it is coincidence and this physical thing caused her to act in a way that I would totally relate to this archon/abduction ****, maybe it's some sort of bias on my part--I expected an implant, who knows, maybe it is.

I just know that I experienced something directly retaliating to me giving her information (light), that when she's herself (& outa out house) she's totally receptive (if not a little scared), and whether it's demons or dementia, she has told me on several occasions "she's blocked", culminating into the warning the other night, which lead to attacks when whatever was trying to stop me did not believe I would stop (I tried telling "them" I would, they obviously knew I wasn't being honest).

[Beren]

Hi justoneman;

Glad to hear from you :).

Soul is the spiritual entity. It`s always a part of Creator despite that soul being aware of this or not.
Even the darkest demons and wannabe Satans are still a part of Creator despite their disbelief.

Simply you cannot be severed ,you can only imagine this. Your own conscience might lead you on various paths and you may do atrocities beyond count and spend an eon without communing with God but God actually never left you and you never ever lost the connection with it.
All what is needed is your own call from innermost depths of you.
And God is there---he never left...

But in his Love God allowed you to experiment and chose what you will do. With choices came repercussions. Key was to learn of "get" the meaning of action and reaction. Sowing and reaping.

Here comes a spirit as a term for us in bodies.
Spirit is an energy that moves.
How ?
It moves in all ways,dimensions.

Sheer energy and core energy.
God is a spirit. Formless and formed in countless variations in existence since all is God`s creation-energy-spirit.
Whatever one spirit chooses to do God will feel this and indirectly or directly without direct possible (or with -depending from the current awareness of particular spirit or soul) spirit or soul`s knowledge.

We are souls, God`s sparks with full potential to be God.
We are also called spirits in our natural state as pure intelligent energy.

So it may be one and the same but it may also mean that a spirit is sheer energy and a soul is an entity.

We as souls can experience everything.
We can be fires in Volcanoes around the universe or light emitted from stars or gasses in space or plasma in space.

But we can only do this in our original state of being- a spiritual energy called soul.
In body we live different experience and cannot play with elements like we can in spirit form.


I hope I cleared the thing for you.
:)

[Chester]

Anyone who has had any sort of negative interaction with any of what we call the "archontic forces" or had astral realm difficulties or negatively viewed abduction experiences owes it to themselves to review this link from one of our Avalon friends, Jenci -

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?47841-Adventures-Beyond-the-Body&p=545024&viewfull=1#post545024

The interview with William Buhlman begins (as Jenci states) at 40 minutes - fascinating and rings as very likely all true (at least for just this one experiencer, Chester).

It supports my own recent views that my "abduction experiences" may be in part, due to where I was at with regards to my core level of being... where I was at my "Spirit" level... at a vulnerable place due to the fact that at some point in my Spirit journey prior to these specific abduction experiences, I allowed my "soul" to be usurped (meaning I gave away or allowed to be captured my Spirit's sovereignty which was accomplished by losing control of my own "soul" - ala Steve Richards for example).

That the more I explore this avenue, the more I feel empowered in my quest at "freeing" my soul from the perceived external grip such that I can become, once again, the truly free and sovereign spirit being I believe I once (and originally) was.

Truly... anyone seeking any resolution really should at least give this interview a listen. By listening with an open mind one might just loosen up enough such that the dam springs a leak and this leak leads to an eventual bursting of the dam... like has happened with me over the last several weeks.

Best to ALL! justoneman

[Houman]

On the "solutions" thread...

How many of you want to go beyond discussions and take the archonic/demonic forces and their minions "head on"?

There is a way to do that... it would put your life (and possibly your sanity) in jeopardy but if a core of people is serious enough about taking that on I will post a way here (again it is not without risk).
It involves work, investigation, communication and going into areas where you would probably not want to go. You would also need to have a robust psyche and a functional "spiritual immune system".

Houman

[Cristian]

On the "solutions" thread...

How many of you want to go beyond discussions and take the archonic/demonic forces and their minions "head on"?

There is a way to do that... it would put your life (and possibly your sanity) in jeopardy but if a core of people is serious enough about taking that on I will post a way here (again it is not without risk).
It involves work, investigation, communication and going into areas where you would probably not want to go. You would also need to have a robust psyche and a functional "spiritual immune system".

Houman

I dont think it's a good idea ; think of how many bright souls will want to help, not really knowing
what are they getting into. How would you feel when things will start to go really bad for them?

Instead , maybe you can PM some users , that you feel have the strength and power for what you are planning.

Just a thought (and awaiting PM :) )

[Houman]

On the "solutions" thread...

How many of you want to go beyond discussions and take the archonic/demonic forces and their minions "head on"?

There is a way to do that... it would put your life (and possibly your sanity) in jeopardy but if a core of people is serious enough about taking that on I will post a way here (again it is not without risk).
It involves work, investigation, communication and going into areas where you would probably not want to go. You would also need to have a robust psyche and a functional "spiritual immune system".

Houman

I dont think it's a good idea ; think of how many bright souls will want to help, not really knowing
what are they getting into. How would you feel when things will start to go really bad for them?

Instead , maybe you can PM some users , that you feel have the strength and power for what you are planning.

Just a thought (and awaiting PM :) )

It has to be open and public to work.

[Eram]

On the "solutions" thread...

How many of you want to go beyond discussions and take the archontic/demonic forces and their minions "head on"?

There is a way to do that... it would put your life (and possibly your sanity) in jeopardy but if a core of people is serious enough about taking that on I will post a way here (again it is not without risk).
It involves work, investigation, communication and going into areas where you would probably not want to go. You would also need to have a robust psyche and a functional "spiritual immune system".

Houman

Hi Houman,

What do you envision when you say that (take the archontic/demonic forces and their minions "head on)?
What would be the objective?
To ban these forces from the face of the earth?

[spiritwind]

Hi, I am going to jump in here for the first time on this thread. I haven’t read it all (though a considerable amount) and by no means have found the time to watch all the video links but feel I have some experience in some of the areas spoken of here and have been following with interest what some feel may truly be a solution (being a solution oriented person). Part of the reason I haven’t made any comment prior to now is mainly because, although I have some time to read and make an occasional comment, I am mostly too busy to make the lengthy well thought out commentary of the many I read here. The other reason is because of the people in my life who seem to be a target for unwanted attention whenever I give this whole topic too much attention. I actually had to leave Southern California a year and a half ago as a result of trying to help my then 16 year old daughter’s boyfriend with what I can only call some type of possession. I was way out of my league but didn’t know this until I tried to “help”. I found out that he had consciously and with some level of intent given a part of himself away to what he himself recognized as dark forces (he's well on his way to success as a musician btw). Within 3 months I had to move away as a result of what he (and by that I mean him and whatever for he truly wasn’t himself anymore) was doing to my daughter’s mental health. They hadn’t even been together for many months before he asked me for help.

Quite the experience. Just before we left he told my daughter in great detail his plan to kill a mutual acquaintance of theirs and that he would kill her if she told anyone. Well, she told me, I told the police, and we moved shortly thereafter. It actually didn’t end there either. I also quit asking what other’s thought had really happened because of the truly bizarre responses I got. I even had one lady tell me he was possessed by a berserker and wanted me to contact some unknown person who knew how to kill it. My husband also seems to be a target on occasion although not really since we moved away. We would even smell sulfur in the air when we lived in our boat along the delta in Central Cal. And within a short period of time some major weirdness would break out with someone in the resort/marina where we lived and on occasion it would be my husband suddenly behaving not himself and whacking out on our daughter in a strange verbal fashion that seemed out of character. We would even talk about it afterwards and recognize what had happened. I would venture a guess that could be why many people don’t want to jump out there with their stories. I will never quit questing for the truth but can’t help worrying about some of the more vulnerable people around me. Just thought I would throw that in there as I think any solution would have to have a multi-faceted approach and take others around you into consideration.

[Eram]

Hi Spiritwind,

That is some story!

The music industry is a particular segment of society where dark forces seem to dwell.
I saw a video recently which attempts to expose this phenomenon.
It's one of the best efforts that I've seen so far.

-J-0MQQzmKY

It is a bit religious in some parts, but the insights in the industry seem real.

To me this video felt appropriate in this thread.
If not, let me know and I'll remove it.

[modwiz]

Hi Spiritwind,

That is some story!

The music industry is a particular segment of society where dark forces seem to dwell.
I saw a video recently which attempts to expose this phenomenon.
It's one of the best efforts that I've seen so far.

-J-0MQQzmKY

It is a bit religious in some parts, but the insights in the industry seem real.

To me this video felt appropriate in this thread.
If not, let me know and I'll remove it.

What you are revealing here is very appropriate to this thread. IMO

[Chester]

On the "solutions" thread...

How many of you want to go beyond discussions and take the archonic/demonic forces and their minions "head on"?

There is a way to do that... it would put your life (and possibly your sanity) in jeopardy but if a core of people is serious enough about taking that on I will post a way here (again it is not without risk).
It involves work, investigation, communication and going into areas where you would probably not want to go. You would also need to have a robust psyche and a functional "spiritual immune system".

Houman

YES!!! I have been (impatiently... one of my defects) waiting for your ideas along those lines and Houman... I truly believe I am ready to help.

I will calm down now.

Ok, Yes, Houman, please, let's explore this... and in this thread if you deem that the best place (any thread in fact - your own new thread if that is best). I was all but ready to suspend my thread anyway based on some new information.

What a great day this is! I apologize I am so enthusiastic. (yes, yes yes yes yes...)

Chester (justoneman)


It has to be open and public to work.

Yes!

[Cristian]

I have some experience in some of the areas spoken of here and have been following with interest what some feel may truly be a solution (being a solution oriented person). [...] The other reason is because of the people in my life who seem to be a target for unwanted attention whenever I give this whole topic too much attention.[...]

I think it's very possible some of us have "implants" or even hidden entities within our bodies that report back to their masters. Whenever large groups get together in search for REAL truth ,it's an instant red flag for them. Working together on this puzzle that was broken in thousands of pieces, is the only way we can ever solve it ; and they know it.

I too would like to see Houman's idea.

The only real confirmation that we are getting close to the truth, would be when they start attacking at all levels, targeting individuals, maybe going as far as trying to shut down PA website.
I'm not saying this to create fear. Fear is the first thing one has to leave behind when looking for the truth. But iI do think it's important to anticipate , much like in a chess game , what they are going to move next.

[Fred Steeves]

How many of you want to go beyond discussions and take the archonic/demonic forces and their minions "head on"?


Hi Houman, if what you're proposing is based upon anything besides love and compassion, I would be extremely leary.

I'm just sayin...

Cheers,
Fred

[Houman]

On the "solutions" thread...

How many of you want to go beyond discussions and take the archontic/demonic forces and their minions "head on"?

There is a way to do that... it would put your life (and possibly your sanity) in jeopardy but if a core of people is serious enough about taking that on I will post a way here (again it is not without risk).
It involves work, investigation, communication and going into areas where you would probably not want to go. You would also need to have a robust psyche and a functional "spiritual immune system".

Houman

Hi Houman,

What do you envision when you say that (take the archontic/demonic forces and their minions "head on)?
What would be the objective?
To ban these forces from the face of the earth?

It involves missing children/people and human trafficking...
[Mod-note: beware - the next four images are graphic and upsetting. -Paul.]
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m50pb1ekNK1ro9ll3o1_500.jpg
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lw861u7rP31qkdbf0o1_500.jpg
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3zrn93oZe1r8qz9po1_500.jpg
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lovelyvWXJ1qdxp2no1_500.jpg

this is the one "thing" that they don't want to see exposed because it is a Pandora's box, if you open it everything comes out, from satanic ritual, MK Ultra to human processing facilities...
it involves finding these missing people/children (those that are still alive, some are kept alive until specific ritual sacrifice dates) and blowing the whole thing out to the open...

as I said there is some risk involved, if you are not already familiar with it, watch these and you will understand (people in very places have been working very hard to keep that thing "shut" and you will getting in their ways... when that thing "opened" a bit in Belgium it lead to demonstrations with more than 1 million people in the streets... Marcel Vervloesem was framed and jailed for trying to open that box (he is still in jail))

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/242930-Zandvoort-File-Story-of-Marcel-Vervloesem-and-the-Elite-Peophile-Networks
in 5 parts (elite pedophile networks in 5 parts with English subtitles)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cB18plt2i6U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wydJ0xwe_K4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_2JmGjPffg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T18O0G5RCaQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpBkiPUku6A

Les reseaux de l'horreur (in french)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0IkA-6Q1L4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClRTuuVrLQY&feature=relmfu


Do you still want to go there?

[observer]

How many of you want to go beyond discussions and take the archonic/demonic forces and their minions "head on"?


Hi Houman, if what you're proposing is based upon anything besides love and compassion, I would be extremely leary.

I'm just sayin...

Cheers,
Fred

I hear what you are saying, Fred, but....

To Houman:

The problem here is, there are so many who are hypnotized into believing the Mass of Humanity can simply 'think' (or in this case, 'not think') this Abject Evil away. I have been pointing-out this telepathically implanted message goes all the way back to the Dawn of Man, and that there has never been - in all of recorded history - a 'Bright New Day' for the Mass of Humanity.

Many of the members are of the mindset that we create our own realities, and that by placing a focus on this type of horror, we allow it to grow.

This mindset is perfectly workable anywhere, except within this particular reality.

Thinking only of Love is a wonderful thing for one's personal reality creations.

Exposing this Abject Evil to the Masses is the only way to change the Mass Reality.

[Cristian]

it involves finding these missing people/children (those that are still alive, some are kept alive until specific ritual sacrifice dates) and blowing the whole thing out to the open...

How do you think we can find this missing people/children?

If we did find them how do you avoid another cover -up?

How do you link the persons involved in such activities with demonic entities in such way that even avreage Joe understands an awakes to the big picture?

[Sierra]

Houman,

If one million people, a CD of photographic evidence sent to multiple countries made no difference, except to put the whistle blower in jail as a "rapist" ... It is obvious the establishment (the cops, the courts, the psychiatrists, the doctors, the media, oh and the damned to hell church/New Age establishments/Amusement Parks ... ) is here to defend the pedophiles.

The only thing I can think of that might make a difference, is a mass exposure of the photographs, to teach the public this. is. real.

Can't do it on a website, you'd be arrested and put in jail as a pedophile.

I also wonder, if it is wise to talk about this on a public forum, telegraphing that some action might be taken in the near future.

Do you remember the McMartin case in California awhile ago? Some people went back to explore the grounds of the McMartin Day Care Center, and found the underground tunnels and rooms described by the children. Of course not. one. word. of this discovery hit the main stream media.

It is said, "The truth will set you free." Obviously the truth is so large, so entrenched, that people are perfectly comfortable being interviewed protesting their innocence, after they are exposed as pedophiles. They have literally, no shame.

I do think photographs, plastered in every church, school, hospital, court, news station, public park, amusement parks, department store bathroom, telephone pole in every shopping district, under every parked car's windshield wiper might be the only way to educate the public ... and don't. get. caught. telling. the. truth. because. this. will. stir. rage. and. indignation. on the part of the ignorant. It has to be done but the public will go through the stages of denial, rage, grief, acceptance.

I have no answers.

Sierra

[Eram]

I have often asked myself the question.... What does Houman want with this thread?
Where is this leading to?

So this is it isn't it?
You want to create a task force to go after the missing children and expose the networks.

Bring light to the darkest of darkness.

Living in Belgium, I did some research to the network of child abuse/abductions/sacrifice here and it is overwhelming how deep it goes in this country.
Roots go all the way up to the pacts that where forged in the middle ages with families of nobility and further.
Heavy weight powers are involved.

It's an honest judgement when I say I'm not cut from the right wood for this sort of job.

I wish for these networks to be exposed and that people find the courage to stand up to their fears, the endurance to see it through and enlightenment to see the truth to set them free.

[Daughter of Time]

It is my firm belief, no matter what battle we lose, we always win the war. :) Good prevails. Always. Growth prevails. Always. As I get older, the long view becomes more and more real to me.

I also agree that the Universe is on a critical path to huge changes. We are a part and parcel of that change. We choose what we choose. There is enough information out there to realize we are in the time of choice, as described by a Hopi Prophecy. All of us can choose whatever direction we want to go, and it adamantly, vehemently, critically, absolutely does not have to be the direction we have gone our whole lives ... if that is our choice.

I'd really like to know, I'd really like it if Daughter of Time, JustOneMan, any milab, any abductee could describe what helped them process their experience. :) How long did it take? Is there still more stuff to process? Does the self ever really become clear what happened? Is one still under control at times? I apologize if this has already been discussed, but this sort of info can bear repeating, yes?

Thanks, Sierra :)

Hello Sierra,

I've been away from this thread and rarely checked the forum in the past two weeks because I was on a work contract which took all my focus, attention, energy and creativity and I'm now totally exhausted and need to recover. So I'm catching up on reading the posts on this thread and I still have far to go and there's much I'd like to comment on as far as some of the posts I've read and plan to do so in the coming days. I've just read your post and wanted to reply and I hope that my reply is not too convoluted since I'm so tired.

Being away from this thread and working on a creative project has offered me a much needed change but has also brought further awareness of how painfully unaware most people are out there. And these are kind, good hearted, respectful, intelligent, highly creative people, yet, their reality is mostly the only reality they know. They are aware that the reality of much of the planet is far more painful than ours since we have decent food to eat, roofs over our heads, literacy, and willingness to learn. Unfortunately, I became disappointedly aware of the belief systems that these people are governed by which I have learned to let go of as I begin my awakening process. I thought I'd begun my awakening process a long time ago but it was all an illusion. Realizing that I am no longer affected by these belief systems that rule most poeple I come in contact with, helps me realize that I am continuously processing all that has happened in my life. But that is it, I am still in the process of processing, connecting the dots and realizing, much to my dismay, that the veil of deception clouded my view for so many years, and now that it's being lifted, I seem to go from a state of elation in knowing that I am potentially capable of changing my reality, to a state of despair in not knowing how to change the reality of others and of the planet in general.

I still have to recover many of my memories, that is, the subconscious ones, because the conscious ones are very clear. I've been trying to recover memories of the original cause of this chaos plaguing humanity, and specifically, myself and what in me caused me to become a target, but have not, as of yet, been successful at that. But I have glimpses, and that is promising.

What has helped me in this process is the knowledge that although they have taken so much from me, they cannot take my soul. My soul is mine. It belongs to me. No one can have it against my permission. There is nothing they can do to take it from me. They can implant my body. They can program my mind. But they cannot take my soul where my true essence resides. They cannot take my love nor my humanity. I am becoming very aware of all the traps. This gives me strength and some degree of clarity, but I still have much work to do.

There is more I'd like to say on this but I'll do so after I regain some energy which is now sorely lacking since I'm afraid I would just blabber on and confuse the issues.

With love,

Daughter of Time

[Daughter of Time]

I have often asked myself the question.... What does Houman want with this thread?
Where is this leading to?

So this is it isn't it?
You want to create a task force to go after the missing children and expose the networks.

Bring light to the darkest of darkness.

Living in Belgium, I did some research to the network of child abuse/abductions/sacrifice here and it is overwhelming how deep it goes in this country.
Roots go all the way up to the pacts that where forged in the middle ages with families of nobility and further.
Heavy weight powers are involved.

It's an honest judgement when I say I'm not cut from the right wood for this sort of job.

I wish for these networks to be exposed and that people find the courage to stand up to their fears, the endurance to see it through and enlightenment to see the truth to set them free.

I cannot speak for Houman as to why he started this thread and what he wishes to accomplish, but I am appreciative that he is exposing what he has found. Awareness is the first step in finding a solution. I do not have the psychic strength to fight the darkest of darkness at this particular point in my life, but I wish I did. If the knowledge is spread, warriors will come forth.

And as far as sacrifices taking place in Belgium goes, well, these sacrifices take place everywhere. I don't think there are any exceptions on this planet. A few weeks ago, in one of my astral travel experiences, I went from one sacrificial site to another in a matter of minutes. Everyone of the victims was a very attractive young woman and they all had their living, beating hearts torn out of their chests. I very clearly noticed that they were all of different racial backgrounds. First I witnessed a blonde, Nordic type, then it was an Asian young woman, then an African one, then a Mediterranean looking one. I couldn't take anymore and forced myself back into my body. Needless to say, it was a difficult night for me, but not as difficult as it would have been a year ago. This is not to say that I'm becoming immune to the atrocities, but that they have become a part of a reality which goes far beyond horror movies and literature. It is real!

[Beren]

What has helped me in this process is the knowledge that although they have taken so much from me, they cannot take my soul. My soul is mine. It belongs to me. No one can have it against my permission. There is nothing they can do to take it from me. They can implant my body. They can program my mind. But they cannot take my soul where my true essence resides. They cannot take my love nor my humanity. I am becoming very aware of all the traps. This gives me strength and some degree of clarity, but I still have much work to do.

There is more I'd like to say on this but I'll do so after I regain some energy which is now sorely lacking since I'm afraid I would just blabber on and confuse the issues.

With love,

Daughter of Time Here and now I want to share yesterday`s experience.
It may give you answers (you-I mean all).

I ventured out with my consciousness and all of a sudden I saw triple rainbow -the huge ones over the mountain range like Alps or Himalayas.
It was like a portal through I went.

Here and there I wandered and all of a sudden there was this little girl with strange eyes and crystallized dust or greenish gems on her face(right side of the face underneath the eye)...
I said :"Who are you?"
Reply was in child`s voice:"I want to go with you sir"(like a child would say to an adult...)
"Where?"
"I want to suck your soul!"

After this sentence from her she turned into a vampire with gross face and tried to assault me.
I stood unmoved and smoothly stated:" I cannot give you my soul BUT I will give you Christ`s light to suck!"
I stood there and called my innermost light to shine upon her and in the same time I called Christ to shine upon this vampire and to return her to her essence before she became a vampire- to burn this vampire illusion mask off from her soul.

She writhed in pain.

Her face screamed ,shape changed and fangs grew big until they were crushed into dust.
Few seconds more all the way I called the light upon her she writhed silently and disappeared into void or nothingness.

I felt energy and goosebumps all over my physical body but there I felt nothing close to fear.
I felt like I called the light of Christ to heal her even by burning the Vampire template that she became.

I felt that all I did was to connect with Christ and the light flowed instantaneously.
I thank Christ for aid for in this moment I felt how he and God feels when healing with light those poor tortured souls...
They writhe and scream but I feel that in their core they are relieved that help came and that this template that consumed them was and is now gone, burned by light.
The core remained and now pure -it returned to God-Creator-Love.


Bless you all folks!

Beren

[donk]

So what practical action is there to take? Are you trying to set up a task force--as suggested and I suspected all along was logical conclusion to all the sacrifice issues? Obviously we have remote viewers ready to do recon, and people wanting to help?

I would do so, though would need to be trained as I have no practical skills or knowledge in dealing with this type of thing. Also I am seriously invested in responsibilities I have taken on for others here in the 3d mundane world, which brings me to another practical issue I've been working toward achieving:

I have a girlfriend that exhibits all of the signs of being a slave to vampiric forces. I revisited the Steve Richards holo kinetic interview, which I loved enough before to look for someone the first time I came across it months ago, but ran into the same problem I did before: I can't myself or find someone able to "bend space-time to fix the past, present, and future", or move lei lines. I suspect if I practiced enough I could talk to "true spirits", but I don't have luxury of being able to take the course.

If I could clear the demons coming into my individual life, I'd gladly help in the grand battle for tortured souls. But until then, I'm busy winging it at trying to battle demons without damaging their victims, and am not able to do it quite yet. Any pointers or help would be appreciated. I'd definitely take any demon liberating skills into the depths of any hell, I feel I have lost all fear and don't have anything to lose but my loved ones souls, which are being violated anyway whether I participate or not.

She's trying right now to tell me I'm the demon, it's my fault, I can't beat them I just need to leave it alone, as if that would make them stop. I'll be battling tonight, apparently--at least trying to get her self to understand the pandora's box concept...if they let me talk to her at all. She's convinced this info is the cause, and under a spell thats convincing her that everything would have been (& was) fine until I started digging.

****, if I can't convince her otherwise, I got an easy out...me and the boys don't need this ****. But we love her and her soul is worth the fight, so anyone feel like sending love & light this way, I'd appreciate it...

[Cristian]

Hey guys,


I admit i was contemplating a different solution.

At the very core it has to do with what we are compared to what they are. We are children of the Universe, born from the ocean of nothingness . We understand our connection with each other and the ilusion of individuality.
So were they , until they made the choice to deny their true nature. Just like drops of water from waves smashing against piers , they refuse to fall back into the Ocean.

http://static.environmentalgraffiti.com/sites/default/files/images/8_teaser_0.jpg

They said...we are not the Ocean, we are drops of water. And the Ocean always allowed free will to his drops.

But in denying their connection and cutting the link with the Ocean, they slowly turned into what they are now. With no energy coming from the Ocean, they became lost and empty inside.
The solution they came up with was to prey and steal energy from other beings that were connected to the Ocean.
So they turned Earth and other Planets into their farms.

Now, the differences between us and them are the key, if we want to find a solution to our current situation.
It has to do with the energy we have, and they dont. With the strenght we have being connected to the Ocean.
I had many encounters with them, mostly in astral dimension but also in this reality.
I found that they basically lack the power to create, have no imagination, and rely heavily on black magic , fear , and a very good understanding of how this dimensions are built.

For us humans is easy to slaughter a bull, in a controled enviroment. But if we take on a bull in the open field , with our bare hands, well i dont think we stand a chance.
Same goes for them and us. Meet them in the astral, with a clear head of who you are, and what you can do there , and what they cannot do, and you will see them running for cover.
Of course is not that simple , and they do have a bag of evil, disgusting tricks. But the overall principle is valid.


What Houman is proposing is in my opinion playing in their controlled enviroment. They have the politicians, the judges, most if not all the press, and also have enslaved the minds of majority not to be interested in topics like this.

How about we formulate a strategy for an "astral cleanup" where we do have the upper hand, followed maybe by an astral blocade that will prevent them from accesing this reality.

[Fred Steeves]

until they made the choice to deny their true nature. Just like drops of water from waves smashing against piers , they refuse to fall back into the Ocean.

They said...we are not the Ocean, we are drops of water. And the Ocean always allowed free will to his drops.

But in denying their connection and cutting the link with the Ocean, they slowly turned into what they are now. With no energy coming from the Ocean, they became lost and empty inside.
The solution they came up with was to prey and steal energy from other beings that were connected to the Ocean.
So they turned Earth and other Planets into their farms.


What If: They despise themselves for what they have become.

What If: Deep down, they would rather be able to die, than to continue as they are.

What If: They hopelessly dream of a way out, but know of course that there isn't one. The ocean has moved on without them, and they are on their own.

What If: They were approached one day, and gently told: "You don't have to do this any longer if you don't want to, the ocean is still waiting. I see you're tired, why don't you take my hand, and come with me".

[modwiz]

until they made the choice to deny their true nature. Just like drops of water from waves smashing against piers , they refuse to fall back into the Ocean.

They said...we are not the Ocean, we are drops of water. And the Ocean always allowed free will to his drops.

But in denying their connection and cutting the link with the Ocean, they slowly turned into what they are now. With no energy coming from the Ocean, they became lost and empty inside.
The solution they came up with was to prey and steal energy from other beings that were connected to the Ocean.
So they turned Earth and other Planets into their farms.




What If: They were approached one day, and gently told: "You don't have to do this any longer if you don't want to, the ocean is still waiting. I see you're tired, why don't you take my hand, and come with me".

What if they replied, "Pull my finger." :P

[ulli]

until they made the choice to deny their true nature. Just like drops of water from waves smashing against piers , they refuse to fall back into the Ocean.

They said...we are not the Ocean, we are drops of water. And the Ocean always allowed free will to his drops.

But in denying their connection and cutting the link with the Ocean, they slowly turned into what they are now. With no energy coming from the Ocean, they became lost and empty inside.
The solution they came up with was to prey and steal energy from other beings that were connected to the Ocean.
So they turned Earth and other Planets into their farms.




What If: They were approached one day, and gently told: "You don't have to do this any longer if you don't want to, the ocean is still waiting. I see you're tired, why don't you take my hand, and come with me".

What if they replied, "Pull my finger." :P


Then you know them for what they really are....
no longer even separate drops of ocean water,
but scum on the ocean's shore.

[ulli]

So what practical action is there to take? Are you trying to set up a task force--as suggested and I suspected all along was logical conclusion to all the sacrifice issues? Obviously we have remote viewers ready to do recon, and people wanting to help?

I would do so, though would need to be trained as I have no practical skills or knowledge in dealing with this type of thing. Also I am seriously invested in responsibilities I have taken on for others here in the 3d mundane world, which brings me to another practical issue I've been working toward achieving:

I have a girlfriend that exhibits all of the signs of being a slave to vampiric forces. I revisited the Steve Richards holo kinetic interview, which I loved enough before to look for someone the first time I came across it months ago, but ran into the same problem I did before: I can't myself or find someone able to "bend space-time to fix the past, present, and future", or move lei lines. I suspect if I practiced enough I could talk to "true spirits", but I don't have luxury of being able to take the course.

If I could clear the demons coming into my individual life, I'd gladly help in the grand battle for tortured souls. But until then, I'm busy winging it at trying to battle demons without damaging their victims, and am not able to do it quite yet. Any pointers or help would be appreciated. I'd definitely take any demon liberating skills into the depths of any hell, I feel I have lost all fear and don't have anything to lose but my loved ones souls, which are being violated anyway whether I participate or not.

She's trying right now to tell me I'm the demon, it's my fault, I can't beat them I just need to leave it alone, as if that would make them stop. I'll be battling tonight, apparently--at least trying to get her self to understand the pandora's box concept...if they let me talk to her at all. She's convinced this info is the cause, and under a spell thats convincing her that everything would have been (& was) fine until I started digging.

****, if I can't convince her otherwise, I got an easy out...me and the boys don't need this ****. But we love her and her soul is worth the fight, so anyone feel like sending love & light this way, I'd appreciate it...

I recommend, at least as an experiment, to try and test the saying "where focus goes, energy flows"
And see if shifting the focus to the possibility that there might also exist equally powerful beings that represent the principle of goodness and nurturing.....
And turn in that direction...
What do you have to lose?

[Eram]

I recommend, at least as an experiment, to try and test the saying "where focus goes, energy flows"
And see if shifting the focus to the possibility that there might also exist equally powerful beings that represent the principle of goodness and nurturing.....
And turn in that direction...
What do you have to lose?


Sounds like the best advice that I've read here in a while :)

Thanks Ulli!

[donk]

I have been going in that direction, trying to get her to ask for help. Also, to understand her power--she is definitely preventing things from hurting me that have expressed that desire. Has mentioned on occasion that she is protecting me. I saw for myself when they manifested within her, that they could not keep it up long, and on some level she was holding them back.

And right after I posted, we had been avoiding each other so as not to fight--she was so angry, betrayed, hurt, and hating me for spending my time looking into the stuff, she could obviously feel that was what I was doing, and it aggravated the situation. So I stopped, for the most part (earlier in the day), only to peek in to see any responses to Houman's suggestion, and decided to bang out the above post. Then I went outside, and tried to "incarnate my higher self within me", whatever that may mean.

When I did so, I found myself looking for light--as in promising myself (my higher self) if he/it would incarnate I would live up to my end of what I said here...I would spend as much energy as possible and use any gifts or assistance provided to me to bring light to the darkness, that I wouldn't quit trying to find information (light) to stop the enslavement...just light light light, love love love.

When I went inside, I found her asleep, seemingly peaceful, waaaaay early than she would have...which was nice.

Anyway, I think there is fine a line of where you need to walk. I am definitely on board with the focus of energy, particularly my intent. I have become keenly aware of my own power in that sense.

But there is also the denial trap to avoid, and the fact that whatever the eff these things are, they are hiding themselves, and deceiving--often in directions seemingly "good". I have grown to embrace the idea that the more you know (light you have) on a situation, the more effectively you can deal with it. Learning about this sh!t was (seemingly) just an interest for me, something that happened to other people. Now that it is up in my face--I have to reconsider all the ideas and experiences I have consumed, and the ones that seem to relate to mine aren't pretty.

But thanks so much for the re-focus of my mindset, I needed it. Funny how I came to it myself last night, though may have not even remembered had you not posted--so many many thank yous!! It is apparent that I have "given" her enough info (ha--she's the one going through it), that she has a good enough idea of the basics, the rest of the negative sh!t can be filled in with her own experiences I guess--and I'll get to work on figuring the "incarnating the higher self" aspect, as well as maybe getting assistance from the light side that we can trust.

It's just kinda concerning when she starts them over me--saying I'm the demon, blaming me for them attacking her (more), making deals--she told them we would stay in the house, which if is not the primary source of the biggest of the problems, is at least the fuel for it--but she said we'd stay if they make it affordable--the landlord called from overseas night before last, asking us to call at 2:30am our time--which she had awoke and been alert at 2...not sure if she was compelled to call or not--she said to me that the idea of calling then is crazy--though I don't see it as any crazier than anything else. Anyway, she turns on me when they attack hard, which they do whenever I am researching, in particular reading this thread. It is ****ing crazy the power we give it.

[Christine]

How many of you want to go beyond discussions and take the archonic/demonic forces and their minions "head on"?


Hi Houman, if what you're proposing is based upon anything besides love and compassion, I would be extremely leary.

I'm just sayin...

Cheers,
Fred

All true work and revelation is an act of love and illumination. We must not be afraid to look into the darkest corners and shine the Light there. Takes courage and immense love. Thanks Fred, we must always maintain this consciousness - the forces of dark wish us to fall into their game and trap.

[Jean-Luc]

On the "solutions" thread...

How many of you want to go beyond discussions and take the archontic/demonic forces and their minions "head on"?

There is a way to do that... it would put your life (and possibly your sanity) in jeopardy but if a core of people is serious enough about taking that on I will post a way here (again it is not without risk).
It involves work, investigation, communication and going into areas where you would probably not want to go. You would also need to have a robust psyche and a functional "spiritual immune system".

Houman

Hi Houman,

What do you envision when you say that (take the archontic/demonic forces and their minions "head on)?
What would be the objective?
To ban these forces from the face of the earth?

It involves missing children/people and human trafficking...
[Mod-note: beware - the next four images are graphic and upsetting. -Paul.]
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m50pb1ekNK1ro9ll3o1_500.jpg
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lw861u7rP31qkdbf0o1_500.jpg
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3zrn93oZe1r8qz9po1_500.jpg
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lovelyvWXJ1qdxp2no1_500.jpg

this is the one "thing" that they don't want to see exposed because it is a Pandora's box, if you open it everything comes out, from satanic ritual, MK Ultra to human processing facilities...
it involves finding these missing people/children (those that are still alive, some are kept alive until specific ritual sacrifice dates) and blowing the whole thing out to the open...

as I said there is some risk involved, if you are not already familiar with it, watch these and you will understand (people in very places have been working very hard to keep that thing "shut" and you will getting in their ways... when that thing "opened" a bit in Belgium it lead to demonstrations with more than 1 million people in the streets... Marcel Vervloesem was framed and jailed for trying to open that box (he is still in jail))

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/242930-Zandvoort-File-Story-of-Marcel-Vervloesem-and-the-Elite-Peophile-Networks
in 5 parts (elite pedophile networks in 5 parts with English subtitles)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cB18plt2i6U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wydJ0xwe_K4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_2JmGjPffg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T18O0G5RCaQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpBkiPUku6A

Les reseaux de l'horreur (in french)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0IkA-6Q1L4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClRTuuVrLQY&feature=relmfu


Do you still want to go there?


The only question is... HOW?

HOW to communicate effectively on this most atrocious subject when indeed so few people are willing to seriously and professionally investigate on this, or simply look at the horrible truth?

Watch for instance this sequence (03:40) with notorious French reporter Karl Zero interviewing this other French well respected reporter Serge Garde
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wydJ0xwe_K4

After the publication by the French newspaper L'Humanité in 1999 of a special dossier on the Zandvoort file, "all the radio's and TV get excited... and then the media below deflated"

As Serge Garde explains:
"It's a subject one does not like to treat because we don't know where it will lead..."


HOW to move public opinion and circumvent all the barriers to truth set forth by status-quo manoeuvres (political, juridical, administrative, secret of instruction and the like...) built-in within the system that will often discourage the bravest "warriors"? Sometimes, as in the case of activist Marc Vervloesem leading to jail, or even death (Marc Vervloesem's collaborator, but also Belgian journalist Alain Stevens aka 'Karmaone', past-editor in chief on this very professionnal website http://karmapolis.be/intro/accueil.htm and who supposingly commited 'suicide').

Where to find the energy and resources, given the general public's basic lack of interest for the subject, when already so much has been done with so little success?

How to move public opinion when still so many people are refusing to even consider the evidence on 9/11 and are basically refusing to take the red pill preferring their Truman show type of existence?

___

BTW the figure of 1 millions demonstrators in the street of Brussels is somewhat exaggerated. The standard estimation was 350.000, which is still a uniquely high figure of people given the size of the country and the context.
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marche_Blanche .

Also bear in mind that given the tireless work of the parents of the two most emblematic children victims at the time (Julie and Melissa), many people in Belgium had been aware for a long time about the story. When finally the paedophile Dutroux was arrested, the march was both some sort of decompression and feeling of contempt/rage for the poor performances of the police and justice department in the country.

[Daughter of Time]

Donk,

It is my opinion that all abductees/contactees have programs that demand that they not disclose their experiences. I have become very aware of my programmings, yet they still affect me. I have not, as of yet, been able to disable them completely. So naturally, every time you dig to find solutions, she will vehemently protest. I do not speak from higher knowledge, but simply from my own experiences. Everything I post in this thread is about my personal experiences, which must undoubtedly be similar to other abductees'/contactees'/targets' experiences.

Now, this might not remove your problems, but it's worth a try. Buy your lady a gift - an EMF protector - a simple necklage that she can wear. If she has an implant, the EMF protector will, to some degree, prohibit or soften some of the manipulations affected through her electro-magnetic field. I find that when I wear mine, the programs lose some of their power. At night, I place my EMF protector on my bed board. I started doing this after my last Orionite contact which was particularly terrifying and draining. To my awareness, I have not had a contact since then. Of course, it is possible that they are still doing things to me when I'm unconscious. This, I do not know.

Another thing you can do is buy a miniature fountain which you would place in your bedroom, close to your bed. These are very easy to find in a number of stores. The running water from the fountain will not stop abductions or ET contacts, but they discourage discarnate entities from getting near one. So if her problems stem from discarnate entities' attacks, this would be helpful.

These are simple measures which may or may not work for her, but they are easy to implement, and I'd say they're worth a try.

[Daughter of Time]

Donk,

Houman recommended a book: THE PRACTICAL PSYCHIC SELF-DEFENSE HANDBOOK.

I've read the book and it has many practical, helpful hints about simple things one can do to prevent entity attacks. Of course, if she sees you reading the book, you might be in for another attack! But do consider reading it, perhaps in a place she will not see you, like when she's out of the house, or you could go to a park or library and spend some time with the book whenever time permits? Again, it's worth a try.

[Flash]

On the "solutions" thread...

How many of you want to go beyond discussions and take the archontic/demonic forces and their minions "head on"?

There is a way to do that... it would put your life (and possibly your sanity) in jeopardy but if a core of people is serious enough about taking that on I will post a way here (again it is not without risk).
It involves work, investigation, communication and going into areas where you would probably not want to go. You would also need to have a robust psyche and a functional "spiritual immune system".

Houman

Hi Houman,

What do you envision when you say that (take the archontic/demonic forces and their minions "head on)?
What would be the objective?
To ban these forces from the face of the earth?

It involves missing children/people and human trafficking...
[Mod-note: beware - the next four images are graphic and upsetting. -Paul.]
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m50pb1ekNK1ro9ll3o1_500.jpg
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lw861u7rP31qkdbf0o1_500.jpg
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3zrn93oZe1r8qz9po1_500.jpg
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lovelyvWXJ1qdxp2no1_500.jpg

this is the one "thing" that they don't want to see exposed because it is a Pandora's box, if you open it everything comes out, from satanic ritual, MK Ultra to human processing facilities...
it involves finding these missing people/children (those that are still alive, some are kept alive until specific ritual sacrifice dates) and blowing the whole thing out to the open...

as I said there is some risk involved, if you are not already familiar with it, watch these and you will understand (people in very places have been working very hard to keep that thing "shut" and you will getting in their ways... when that thing "opened" a bit in Belgium it lead to demonstrations with more than 1 million people in the streets... Marcel Vervloesem was framed and jailed for trying to open that box (he is still in jail))

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/242930-Zandvoort-File-Story-of-Marcel-Vervloesem-and-the-Elite-Peophile-Networks
in 5 parts (elite pedophile networks in 5 parts with English subtitles)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cB18plt2i6U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wydJ0xwe_K4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_2JmGjPffg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T18O0G5RCaQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpBkiPUku6A

Les reseaux de l'horreur (in french)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0IkA-6Q1L4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClRTuuVrLQY&feature=relmfu


Do you still want to go there?


The only question is... HOW?

HOW to communicate effectively on this most atrocious subject when indeed so few people are willing to seriously and professionally investigate on this, or simply look at the horrible truth?

Watch for instance this sequence (03:40) with notorious French reporter Karl Zero interviewing this other French well respected reporter Serge Garde
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wydJ0xwe_K4

After the publication by the French newspaper L'Humanité in 1999 of a special dossier on the Zandvoort file, "all the radio's and TV get excited... and then the media below deflated"

As Serge Garde explains:
"It's a subject one does not like to treat because we don't know where it will lead..."


HOW to move public opinion and circumvent all the barriers to truth set forth by status-quo manoeuvres (political, juridical, administrative, secret of instruction and the like...) built-in within the system that will often discourage the bravest "warriors"? Sometimes, as in the case of activist Marc Vervloesem leading to jail, or even death (Marc Vervloesem's collaborator, but also Belgian journalist Alain Stevens aka 'Karmaone', past-editor in chief on this very professionnal website http://karmapolis.be/intro/accueil.htm and who supposingly commited 'suicide').

Where to find the energy and resources, given the general public's basic lack of interest for the subject, when already so much has been done with so little success?

How to move public opinion when still so many people are refusing to even consider the evidence on 9/11 and are basically refusing to take the red pill preferring their Truman show type of existence?

___

BTW the figure of 1 millions demonstrators in the street of Brussels is somewhat exaggerated. The standard estimation was 350.000, which is still a uniquely high figure of people given the size of the country and the context.
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marche_Blanche .

Also bear in mind that given the tireless work of the parents of the two most emblematic children victims at the time (Julie and Melissa), many people in Belgium had been aware for a long time about the story. When finally the paedophile Dutroux was arrested, the march was both some sort of decompression and feeling of contempt/rage for the poor performances of the police and justice department in the country.

IT seems that this international pedophile network is linked to the same networks for arm trade, the same networks for international embezzlement of funds, the same power networks, in other names, the PTB networks. So, wherever the achille heel is should be the target. It may not necessarily be pedophilia but something else.

To tell the truth, apart from divine intervention, or us doing divine work, I have problem to see how this can be adressed directly.

It must be excruciating for the chlidren under this sadism and cruelty and for their parents who find the picture of their children on a newspaper wall and having the police tell them it is not their child and do nothing. It is barely conceivable that such deviousnes exist.

I truly do not know what to say Houman. Have you personnaly been submitted to these networks or lost a child to it?