Attention! Alert! New welfare reform anybody with changing benefits in the uk!!! [Archive]

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nf857

27th February 2012, 22:02

Hi,

Just wanted to make a post today, due to the fact ive not been on here much past few weeks, as ive been fighting the astrocities of the new welfare benefit system for DLA & ESA. I would like to add some useful information here, for anybody who has had trouble, who is appealing decisions, or has just got the first forms to fill in.

1. Get somebody like the citazens advice team/welfore reform to help you fill out these forms, they are aware of how this new system works & can help you better achieve your claim straight off without having to appeal the decision.

2. Whilst you maybe waiting for help with these forms although the ATOS Letter is a disgrae threating you with stopping off benefits, if you dont fill them in & get then sent by a set date, let them know, you are gaining help with filling in your forms so are not allowed to stop your benefits until this happens, by law, & by their contractual agreement with the DWP.

3. Make sure where possible they give a home visit, if you are housebound/bedbound a lot of the time, remember going to them, classes you as being able to travel fine, no matter how you get there. You may need to ask your letter for a fax to proove it would be more beneficial to have a home visit. That way you are not put through the nightmare of the new LIMA computer system.

4. Make sure when it reaches the DWP that they send you a copy of the medical report & that you agree with the decison, from the offset, if they say they have obtained further information from your GP, please please please, make sure that this extra information is for the ESA & not for the DLA.

Ive since caught them out on a major discrepancy with my further information they supposdley obtained from my GP, as they futher information was not for them it was for the DLA & as these two benefits are for different style of descripters, be very careful they are not using this against you for ESA- they are not allowed too.

5. By the same token if you are having your DLA renewed in and around the same time, make sure they are not using the ATOS medical report, this is for ESA only, you should demand they give you their own independent medical as again, this is for ESA points based system to measure your abilites, not disablities.

6. If you have a mental health problem such that if would place you or others in danger to go & work, make sure you obtain a letter of support, before you first send your ESA form out, if you have a fluctuating/ not functional illness/disease, please also make sure they are very aware of these on your forms.

Remeber ATOS is a point based LIMA Computer System, that does not pertain to your particular illness & is a very general way of assesing somebody's ability to work or ablity for work-related activity.

7. If you are going to take your chances with going to the ATOS MEDICAL - please can i stress, only go if your absolutly must go, if you have anyway of providing evidence that a home visit would be far better for you from a GP or your Specialist, make sure you do, i can't tell you the amount of lies these medical healthcare proffesional put on their reports to make you look fit and able.

8. Be aware they may state the information from the Health Care Professional is impartial advice and diagnoses or treatments or your previous medical history is not to be taken into consideration- BY LAW THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DO THIS, if there is evidence that the HCP has no experience or expertise in your particular illness/disablility, they should not get away with putting on your forms that your are or will be ok to work in a year, without strong evidence from your GP for ATOS/ELA Team only to use to back up their claim. Also they have to take the severness of your condition into account, so if you have good days/bad days, make sure you put this on your forms i.e can you walk??? Only use your worst day, so if you can't go outside, make sure you just answer plaining NO & that a GP will back this up for you!!!

9. You are entitled to CHALLENGE ANY OR ALL OF THE REPORT you FEEL WAS MADE UP, or does NOT PERTAIN TO YOU!!! I.E If it states you can easily pass a message from yourself to somebody else, challenge this, as this is a technicality!!! You only need 1 more point if you have scored 16 points, ask for the descripters or go online to see the descripters & how the LIMA COMPUTER BASED DRIVEL that the computer speils out is challenged, if you can make any of the SUPPORT GROUP descripters, you are ELIGIBLE FOR THE SUPPORT GROUP.

10.If you have been UNABLE TO WORK FOR MANY YEARS & are being migrated over from an OLD BENEFIT, make sure under THE FREEDOM OF INFORMATION YOUR REQUEST your old REPORTS/DECISIONS before you start THIS WHOLE NEW SYSTEM, evidence that you were ELIGIBLE BEFORE CAN BE USED AS I CAN ASSURE YOU IT WILL CHALLENGE WHAT THESE CROOKS ATOS HEALTHCARE WILL SAY

11. BE AWARE IN MOST CASES YOU GO INTO THEIR MEDICALS A DISABLED PERSON, YOU COME OUT OF THEIR MEDICAL A FIT AND WELL PERSON ABLE TO WORK, BY THEIR FRAUDELENT/FAULTY/INCONSISTENT/IRRELVANT, & TOTALLY UNPROFESSIONAL REPORT.

12 Be aware a HCP's stands for Health Care Professional they have a DUTY OF CARE TO YOU THE CLAIMANT, & DWP THE CUSTOMER TO ACCURALITY REPRESENT YOU, if there is evidene that they have LIED OR MISREPRESENTED YOU, MAKE THEM AWARE OF THIS- RECORD ANY MEDICAL YOU MAY HAVE ON YOUR PHONE, MAKE A DIARY OF DATES AND TIMES, DEPARTMENTS THAT YOU SPEAK TOO!!!

13. ALWAYS ASK FOR A COPY OF ANY NOTES THAT HAVE BEEN MADE THAT DAY & ANY NEW INFORMATION OR DECISIONS THEY HAVE MADE THIS WAY YOU GET TO KEEP THE NAME OF THE PERSON!!!

I hope this helps somebody, im finally got through this awful system, i have found lots of inconsiscent information, attitudes of the staff is awful, dont let them speak to you like your guilty of something or let the treat you like your a criminal. If they ask you a question that sounds like its presuming or assuming of them, ask them for evidence of why they are making that assumption.

NEW BENEFIT SYSTEM IS DESIGNED SO AT LEAST ONE SIDE OF YOUR BENEFIT FAILS THE OTHER!!! THEY USE A CROSS-USE OF INFORMATION WITHOUT TELLING YOU. THIS IS CALLED INSIDER TRADING & IS AGAINST THE LAW!!!

Also see THE HARRINGTON REPORT!!! x

onawah

27th February 2012, 22:27

Post deleted by OP. Whoops!

ScubaMonkey

27th February 2012, 23:19

7. If you are going to take your chances with going to the ATOS MEDICAL - please can i stress, only go if your absolutly must go, if you have anyway of providing evidence that a home visit would be far better for you from a GP or your Specialist, make sure you do, i can't tell you the amount of lies these medical healthcare proffesional put on their reports to make you look fit and able.

Worth reminding people that if they do not manage to arrange a home vist and you simply do not turn up at the medical without good evidence as to why they will stop your ESA.

10.If you have been UNABLE TO WORK FOR MANY YEARS & are being migrated over from an OLD BENEFIT, make sure under THE FREEDOM OF INFORMATION YOUR REQUEST your old REPORTS/DECISIONS before you start THIS WHOLE NEW SYSTEM, evidence that you were ELIGIBLE BEFORE CAN BE USED AS I CAN ASSURE YOU IT WILL CHALLENGE WHAT THESE CROOKS ATOS HEALTHCARE WILL SAY

And if you're wanting to do this its not actually a Freedom of Information Request you make, but a Subject Access Request pursuant to section 7.1 of the Data Protection Act 1998.

If you find yourself in this situation, like the OP says, seek advice from Citizens Advice or Welfare Rights. Another good one is Community Legal Advice.

nf857

3rd March 2012, 01:39

Hi ScubaMonkey,

Yes subject access request ive since found out just today lol, after getting all the info ATOS held on me, its funny that they had DLA information on me, im querying as to why they were using DLA Data& Evidence, which is nothing to do with ATOS, even the guy handling my case said that ''ATOS' should not be using the GP Report you sent us, but it states on my electronic file they have used this....sent a further later today, they shall receive Monday now, ive picked apart the information they have given me bit by bit, 32 questions i had in total tee hee!!!!

Will update as and when new information comes to light, curious to know how ATOS could have had acess to my medical info before this new reform, ive never signed anything to say a 3rd party could have my information. Also whats so blindingly obvious to me these are 'assessment's for work capability' yet it asks you to a 'medical' & states 'medical report' on it- is this purposely mis-leading & therefore LIBEL!!! X

Daft Ada

4th March 2012, 14:03

CD7

4th March 2012, 16:02

Having to be subjected to crap like this..bureaucratic RED TAPE is a main cause for hanging out in the streets...Fl is proposing to reduce minimum wage to the amount it was 25 years ago..whilst EVERYTHING (cost to live) has gone up and in several cases continues to rise.

I dont know about anyone else...but this type of behavior is no doubt the WORK of those who wish to continue PECKING humanity around this globe. It certainly does not take a rocket scientist to SEE these intentional hits to stir the hornets nest.

SO PLZ!!! DO NOT LET THE FEAR OF SURVIVAL BREAK U DOWN...exist in each moment...dealing with what occurs in THAT moment. What comes around GOES around and its been WINDING ITSELF into a spin of mass proportions surely to land right where its supposed to

ScubaMonkey

5th March 2012, 22:51

im querying as to why they were using DLA Data& Evidence, which is nothing to do with ATOS, even the guy handling my case said that ''ATOS' should not be using the GP Report you sent us, but it states on my electronic file they have used this.

Curious to know how ATOS could have had access to my medical info before this new reform, ive never signed anything to say a 3rd party could have my information.

They'll try to use anything that they think reinforces their view. If you ever tried this, such as using points from an DLA medical, that they carried out, in a claim for ESA (or vice versa) they'll come back and say you can't do it as its a totally different benefit and as such not relevant. Luckily the Tribunal Service appear quite fair so if you ever take it that far and make these type of points they will give them due consideration. When you claim the benefit you give permission for the DWP's medical service to review the information that they hold on you. The medical service used to all be in house - but now they contract work out to ATOS - and there's their work around for them having your info. The other thing is I feel they should always use a GP report of they do have it. One of the biggest problems people face with this is that ATOS and the DWP don't want to use info from people's health carer's and feel it should be disregarded and replaced by their meagre assessment.

ScubaMonkey

5th March 2012, 23:01

This thread scares the hell out of me, My DLA is up for review in October this year and having only had half my guts ripped out for bowel cancer I feel sure they will say I am perfectly fit for work.
My wife has Fibromyalgia and they refused her DLA over a year ago, she has asked for an appeal and it has taken over a year, it's finally going to be held on the 27th She asked her GP for a medical report and was told she would have to pay £40 for it. we said ok and then we got a letter from the Doctor saying he was far too busy to do it and that there was no point as the last three he had done which he considered as being absolutely deserving of DLA, didn't get it, so there is no point.
So all we can do is turn up at the appeal with that.

Its common now for GP's to charge that amount. Unfortunately health carer's have little understanding on how the medial assessment for benefits works and as such their letters are often no help. The health carer thinks (understandably) that their medical opinion is enough. It is not. What the health carer says in their report and how they say it will make a massive difference to whether it positively affects the case. They often need at least a little guidance of what info is really needed in their letter / report.

I'd still try and get the letter from your GP so that you can give the Tribunal Service new evidence to consider that has not been seen yet. I'd also get hold of the DLA criteria and jot down why you feel you meet it so you've at least got your argument in place for the Tribunal. You may want to have a look on http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/ for people in similar situations and how they are getting on. For the criteria, regulations and law that relate to DLA you could have a look on the CPAG online site - but I think you'll have to pay to get access.

I know you've not got long till you're hearing but consider contacting your local citizens advice. If you're eligible for legal aid give Community Legal Advice and call and ask to speak to a Welfare Benefits Specialist. Good luck with it!

pugwash84

5th March 2012, 23:11

I have just sent off another DLA form for my son to update his claim. The new form also contains the mobility part of it and the mobility is not on a separate form like it used to be. My son is severely disabled and I have started claiming the care component for him too, which I never knew I could claim. A lot of the questions on the form seemed like trick questions and asking the same question a lot of times but in different wording trying to trick me. I have a Barnardo's key worker who helped me with mine. She is assigned to me to link the many hospitals together that he attends and make sure they are communicating with each other and she helps me fill in forms and she helped me get a cinema pass for him. Oh another piece of information I got was that the new forms we are filling in are not being assessed by human people. They are being assessed by computer's in France. They are paying French a computer company to go through the forms for the new sick benefits.

nf857

5th March 2012, 23:27

Hi Christinedream,

Here hoping so, ive already candidly told them what goes around comes around, also told them i hope they comes back as flies next time and get swatted lol! Well they dont mind putting the fear of death into people, or causing people's death, so im gladfully given them back their own medicine, as its not my medicine, & i dont want any part of it lol!

Aww daft ada, my thread was not meant to put you in a state of fear, i hoped to make people aware of anybody going through this how they could get help, & follow my steps of getting a sucessful outcome, so you dont have to go through the nightmare of an appeal. If you have not had to fill our your new forms yet, dont worry, just make sure you get help with the forms, & provide as much evidence as you can, any medical reports, any letters of support from your GP, anything at all, all add weights to it, they will doubt youve had stomach cancer until you provide evidence of such, its disgusting, unfortunatly thats the way the new reform is. When you list your history & explain everything, it should be enough, however with the age of the internet, its easy to people to make this stuff up, as evident as to how many people get away with benefit fraud, the real corruption is the new ATOS computer system.

They'll try to use anything that they think reinforces their view. If you ever tried this, such as using points from an DLA medical, that they carried out, in a claim for ESA (or vice versa) they'll come back and say you can't do it as its a totally different benefit and as such not relevant. Luckily the Tribunal Service appear quite fair so if you ever take it that far and make these type of points they will give them due consideration. When you claim the benefit you give permission for the DWP's medical service to review the information that they hold on you. The medical service used to all be in house - but now they contract work out to ATOS - and there's their work around for them having your info. The other thing is I feel they should always use a GP report of they do have it. One of the biggest problems people face with this is that ATOS and the DWP don't want to use info from people's health carer's and feel it should be disregarded and replaced by their meagre assessment

If this were true, & if you tried this only confirms my view that they are in fact breech of contract, as they use the cross-use of this information to proove you dont deserve the benefits, by using a medical report for ESA in DLA, & a GP letter of support for DLA for ESA!!! Ive not had to take it as far as the tribunal, as ive been ahead of their games every step of they way, its the appeals decision maker who has to chance her job on you not getting it overturned at appeal, she has to be fairly confident she can proove her theories (assumptions) lol!!! I was able to proof to my appeals decision maker who writes 'The Secrety of state report' that she did not have all the relevant information & futher three pieces of evidence had been sent, & even proved she had made up a whole paragraph of lies, i warned her that her lies were obvious as the decision maker had wrote a report in direct opposition to her new use of twisting it, in the contracts paragraphs!!!

The key is now how to proove DWP & ATOS were fraudelent, negligent, were basing their opnions on assumptions not FACT, put you through Hell, made your health worse etc, i have my proof, ive had such a bad relapse im more or less bedbound, my GPS have made note of this, my medications have had to be changed & upped dosages twice, ive had to ring emergency out of hours service twice for emergency medication, ive rung NHS helpline for feeling suicidal, dont worry every part of how its effected you since, they will have to answer for!!!

I have evidence that ATOS has been assesing me since 2006, not the recent forms i signed, & likely everybody else, ATOS were also trading as another company before the new reform also- they were called medical services in house, & to the outside world something else. ATOS & DWP have to use info from people's health carer's, otherwise there would go bankrupt from the amout of lawsuits, they just don't want you to think they CAN, so that you FAIL the Support Group, due to the Government's Proposed Figures, theres LIBEL in itself PROPOSED FIGURES, how do they KNOW how many PEOPLE are TOO ILL too work or not, they dont, they just put us through this hell, to put their THEORIES TO THE TEST, this is where we have to take it further, yet people DONT, as they are just happy they WON in the end, & the Government know this, nevermind your health has SUFFERED, so that they can put THEIR THORETICAL APPROACH to the TEST!!!

Everybody needs to make complaints, it starts by making as many complaints and letters as possible, Im currently making a complaint about the flaws of the LIMA system, i.e its more important that you are familiar with a place, that whether you can mobilse yourself to get there, how backwards is that, so nevermind it would put your health at risk to get to said place of work, just that you can MENTALLY IMAGINE PLACE OF WORK lol!!!

Half the reports are so ridiculous I CANT BELIEVE PEOPLE ARE LETTING THEM GET AWAY WITH IT, mine said something to the effect of I CAN EASILY PASS A SIMPLE MESSAGE TO ONE PERSON, so can a four-year old child, i can ask my four year old nephew to pass a simple message like tell your dad such and such a thing, & he will tell him, just not mean he has a capacity to work. Another one, You can chew Food, so nevermind you need a carer to COOK FOR YOU, & BRING YOU FOOD, just that you can EAT means you have a capacity to work lol so stupid!!! A dog can chew food, does not mean he has a capacity to work, just put the owness back on ATOS they will have to answer there own stupid COMPUTER SYSTEM lol!!!

By not complaing we are basily saying its ok for this computer system to carry on affecting people's lives the way it does, this has to stop, im doing the best for the sake of others, i got my decisions changed, so i dont do it for my own benefit!!! We can't let them get away with using us as GENUIE PIGS!!! xxx

ScubaMonkey

6th March 2012, 08:13

I wholeheartedly agree with you nf857. People should complain. They should appeal & do everything they can to make sure they win. It's a numbers game and while the DWP carry on winning more appeals that they lose they feel everything is ok. At present the DWP still wins 60% of cases heard at tribunal. I'm convinced that the only reason this is so high is that countless people don't get help with their appeal & go into the whole thing blindly unprepared. Peoples health is frequently damaged. People do attempt suicide because of it! I've seen people with substance abuse / alcohol problems, they get clean, a couple weeks later their benefits are reviewed, the fail their medical and all of their income stops. The problems this causes & the stress / pressure of an appeal has them relapsing in no time at all.

My other little gripe with the DWP at the minute is their hardlined approach on the recovery of social fund loans. Too many people having huge amounts deducted from their benefits out of the blue. Takes months to sort and by that time they are so financially messed up they have a whole world of other problems.

What is annoying is that it is all deliberate. The decision makers & staff on the front lines don't see the bigger picture - but this is all part of a plan to hurt those who can't fend for themselves!

The One

6th March 2012, 08:36