What is this Crest

[ROMANWKT]

I would like to ask you my learned friends if anyone can understand the symbolism of this crest, it was given to me when I was 13 years old by a most wonderful lady, right after her husband died. She had given birth to 3 children, all over 11 pounds each and had an extremely rare blood, which was always a big burden to her at giving birth and
further calamities of life. None of her children inherited the rare blood group, which was a blessing to her wonderful heart.

That Lady was my mother, and this is all we have left of her families crest. She died 2 years ago today on her 90th year.

I have been waiting for somebody to ask me what my avatar was, and nobody did.

So anyways, it looks like I am an illuminati bastard, and the bastards forgot about me, hehe

SO I would really be interested what the hell it means, this was a hand copy from the British museum 50 years ago, the guy who was doing this for my parents died, and thats as far as it went.

Fathers connection is all top brass military and law, Mothers connection to the Czechoslovakian throne.

Now any comments on me being a Illuninati bastard will not end up as a smack on the face, but the traditional removal of a face, hehehe.

Regards to all, what do you thing???

roman

[NeverMind]

I can only repeat what I said a few days ago, in the thread about ancestry:
Verbatim:



Well, that's the English (Tudor) rose -- quite prominent, in two places -- and those "horns" may be cornucopia.
but that's all I know.

It should be easy enough to find out, however, with the help of a good heraldry book.


The mystery, should there be one (and there often is one, certainly in genealogy), is probably hidden in the difference between the "horns" or cornucopia, and in the pendant hanging from the neck.

By "Czechoslovakian", I am assuming you mean the Bohemian throne (which is a complicated affair - thrones usually are :)). But I am no expert on this particular subject, so I'll leave it to others.

[king anthony]

...That Lady was my mother, and this is all we have left of her families crest...

Do you have a larger version to post and leave up for a while?

[ROMANWKT]

I can only repeat what I said a few days ago, in the thread about ancestry:
Verbatim:



Well, that's the English (Tudor) rose -- quite prominent, in two places -- and those "horns" may be cornucopia.
but that's all I know.

It should be easy enough to find out, however, with the help of a good heraldry book.


The mystery, should there be one (and there often is one, certainly in genealogy), is probably hidden in the difference between the "horns" or cornucopia.

By "Czechoslovakian", I am assuming you mean the Bohemian throne (which is a complicated affair - thrones usually are :)).

But I am no expert on this particular subject, so I'll leave it to others.

Hi NeverMind

Thank you very much for that, I missed your ancestry thread, have not been here for a while, anyways thank you, all very interesting.

regards to you
roman

[Ellisa]

There was a connection through the English throne to Bohemia (that used to be part of what became Chechoslovakia). Prince Rupert of Bohemia fought in the Civil War on the side of Charles 1. He was the son of Elizabeth of Bohemia, the sister of Charles,who had married the ruler of Bohemia. ( i can't remember if the husband was a King or Duke!) Charles 1 was a Stuart, but since he was descended from Mary Queen of Scots, there would have been some Tudor in there somewhere I think. They are definitely Tudor Roses.

Try searching on a genealogy site. They are very helpful.

[ROMANWKT]

...That Lady was my mother, and this is all we have left of her families crest...

Do you have a larger version to post and leave up for a while?

Well Hallo Anthony, long time no see and hear, hope all is well with you, and thing are coming around for you.

I have tried to put the picture in and it will not go, the pics is on my computer, and it asking me for Urals, I gave up.

If you are logged in just press my name above the avatar and go to my profile, there is a bigger version there.

Very nice to hear from you again Anthony, be well and regards
roman

[NeverMind]

Thank you very much for that, I missed your ancestry thread,

Oh, it's not mine! I strayed into it, I don't even know how, a few days ago, and saw your question there, along with a few others.
That's all. :)

[ROMANWKT]

There was a connection through the English throne to Bohemia (that used to be part of what became Chechoslovakia). Prince Rupert of Bohemia fought in the Civil War on the side of Charles 1. He was the son of Elizabeth of Bohemia, the sister of Charles,who had married the ruler of Bohemia. ( i can't remember if the husband was a King or Duke!) Charles 1 was a Stuart, but since he was descended from Mary Queen of Scots, there would have been some Tudor in there somewhere I think. They are definitely Tudor Roses.

Try searching on a genealogy site. They are very helpful.

Hi Ellisa

Thank you for that as well, yes I Always thought it was funny having a Tudor rose, especially all my connection is deep in Europe, My mother was always tight lipped when it came to this, she had such great fear that something would happen to her children, I know a lot of things that did happen, but that was always of limit, surrounded by great danger. it will be interesting if somebody comes up with the crest house name.

Thank you again and regards
roman

¤=[Post Update]=¤



Thank you very much for that, I missed your ancestry thread,

Oh, it's not mine! I strayed into it, I don't even know how, a few days ago, and saw your question there, along with a few others.
That's all. :)

No problem thank very much anyway
regards to you again NeverMind
roman

[mosquito]

Hi Roman, I'm no expert on genealogy, but it was a bit of a hobby for me when I was younger. Although yes, it looks like a Tudor rose, the overall feel of it is most certainly not English, but you know that already ! It's certainly intriguing, and I would echo Elisa's suggestion of finding a decent heraldry site, or a book. Better still, you may be able to find a real person (heaven forbid in this day and age !!) who can help you.

Good luck, and please let us know if you find the answers !!

PS - Iluminati bastard ?? Naaaah.

[ROMANWKT]

Hi Roman, I'm no expert on genealogy, but it was a bit of a hobby for me when I was younger. Although yes, it looks like a Tudor rose, the overall feel of it is most certainly not English, but you know that already ! It's certainly intriguing, and I would echo Elisa's suggestion of finding a decent heraldry site, or a book. Better still, you may be able to find a real person (heaven forbid in this day and age !!) who can help you.

Good luck, and please let us know if you find the answers !!

PS - Iluminati bastard ?? Naaaah.

Hi mariposafe

I have always kept this under wraps, as my mother made me apprehensive to explore this further, yes I know the crest house name its my mothers, but do not wish to dig outside this forum, unless other wish to do it, there is still second generation left, as for myself i have no problem. I will check out deeper but not face to face. will see how it get on and will put it in the thread.

Thank you anyways mariposafe and regards to you
roman

PS Can you hear a knocking on you door, you free face lift has arrived, Naaaah.

[bearcow]

the tudor rose represents the 5 elements (earth, fire, water, air, ether)

the inner petals represent the magnetic energy (yin)

the outer petals are electric (yang)

the two horns or whatever they are coming out of the head also represent the yin yang polarity in the brain. the left side is unbroken (yin), the right side has vertical lines running through it. it is yang and also envelops the body of the figure, meaning the person is left brain dominant. the vertical lines represent spiritual aspiration, the individual right hand dominance in the body symbolizes the individual is on the "right hand path"

i cant really see what is going on on the crown

while we are focused on decoding symbols, anyone care to take a stab at whats going on in my
avatar?

[Darla Ken Pearce]

Hi, Roman,

Love to take a crack at it but need to know what was this rare blood type? Also did you get her type or not? If not, does yours match your Dad's instead?

My take is by doing this through a very different route but to me, blood tells all. There are no bastards just part of the 3D illusion and not real!

Cheers!

[ROMANWKT]

the tudor rose represents the 5 elements (earth, fire, water, air, ether)

the inner petals represent the magnetic energy (yin)

the outer petals are electric (yang)

the two horns or whatever they are coming out of the head also represent the yin yang polarity in the brain. the left side is unbroken (yin), the right side has vertical lines running through it. it is yang and also envelops the body of the figure. the vertical lines represent spiritual aspiration, the right hand dominance in the body symbolizes the individual is on the "right hand path"

i cant really see what is going on on the crown

Wow bearcow

That's good, it sound like you're really into this, that also very interesting, that a fairly deep aspect in a symbolic form, would the Chinese aspect still be valid for Europe in them days??

Press my name on the avatar and go to my profile, there is a bigger pics.

Really thank you very much bearcow its most interesting to me, it has depth.

regards and thank you
roman

[ROMANWKT]

Hi, Roman,

Love to take a crack at it but need to know what was this rare blood type? Also did you get her type or not? If not, does yours match your Dad's instead?

My take is by doing this through a very different route but to me, blood tells all. There are no bastards just part of the 3D illusion and not real!

Cheers!


Hi Darla nice to hear from you

I haven't the exact blood type here, its at my sisters, Its an A group I believe, the doctors always said that she had to be careful as there are not many people in this group and no help in emergencies and no we all got our fathers blood type, and yes I understand where you're coming from about being a bastard, but my wife thinks otherwise. hehe

Nice to hear from you Darla
warm regards as always
roman

[ROMANWKT]

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/customprofilepics/profilepic3150_17.gif

[Herbert]

That is definitely not the Tudor rose. It is the Luther rose which was common in German coats of arms. You will find pictures here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luther_rose

It sounds like your mother had Rh negative blood which would be a problem in childbirth if the father was Rh positive. Just a guess on my part.

[ROMANWKT]

That is definitely not the Tudor rose. It is the Luther rose which was common in German coats of arms. You will find pictures here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luther_rose

It sounds like your mother had Rh negative blood which would be a problem in childbirth if the father was Rh positive. Just a guess on my part.

Dear Herbert

Are you insinuating that my family apart from being Illuminati bastards, that they are also Nazi bastards as well???? hehe

Well you could be right we have a strong connection to Germany, yes, very good, as I had said in the first post the Guy that was working on the copy from the Museum died suddenly (Gulp) and its incomplete.

Yes there is an Arian connection as well. and I just got your added comment on the blood, no that's not about the blood incompatibility, it was about blood lost at birth, I was an 11 1/2 pound baby, she had to be cut for normal birth.

Thank you for that Herbert its seems to be leading the right direction, thank you

regards to you
roman

[EnergyGardener]

Roman,

I am enjoying the developing information on your crest and life beginning.

It definitely has very interesting and strong symbolism, focused on the rose/flower. Wondering what that five star symbol above the crown/knight's helmet between the horns represents.

EnergyGardener

[nomadguy]

This video presentation by David Talbott brings and interesting idea into the mindstream. The idea that nearly all the symbols we know of are from one story, our primordial history. A crest to me, always seemed to show a sort of eclipse pattern...
xSB93dGMGeg

[Sidney]

Here is an interesting thread discussing blood-types (particularly rh neg.) from Davidn Ike.com forum. I think its a connection between rh negative and the reptilian races.

http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=51245

[Darla Ken Pearce]

[SIZE="3"]
Here is an interesting thread discussing blood-types (particularly rh neg.) from Davidn Ike.com forum. I think its a connection between rh negative and the reptilian races.

http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=51245

No, this is not correct.

"If two Rh-Negs try to have a baby it will usually die or be born a "BLUE Baby", because it is Not processing oxygen properly. Thus "Blue-Bloods", if they survive. 5% of the Earth's population are currently Rh-Negatives. But, they are 15% of the population of the England and the USA."

If an Rh-Neg and an Rh-Pos have a child it can be a Blue Baby. Nothing happens when two RH-negatives or two RH-positives have a child, the RH factor doesn't kick in at all. If this element is wrong in such a statement, it is possible other aspects are mistaken as well. It's a pretty serious error.

[Dorjezigzag]

I would say what looks like horns coming out of the head is actually a lyre. One of the original stringed instruments gifted by Apollo to Orpheus. The symbolism of this instrument is extremely profound but looking at the general symbolism of the crest as others have noticed the symbolism suggests Lutheran reformation rather than occult significance. The rose and the lyre are symbols associated with the Lutheran church. Please look carefully at these stain glass windows from a Lutheran church where you will see both the lyre and the rose.
http://www.capitoldrivelutheran.org/Portals/CapitolDriveLutheran/Images/Stained%20Glass/West%20Portal%20South.jpg
http://www.capitoldrivelutheran.org/Portals/CapitolDriveLutheran/Images/Stained%20Glass/West%20Portal%20North.jpg

[learninglight]

Hi Roman

The 1st thing that came to mind when i looked at the crest was 'ISIS', i have no idea why this notion popped into my head but i shall be having a good nose around to see what i come up with

much love

[modwiz]

Roses are symbolic of both purity, love and high spiritual attainment. As flower essences they are the royalty, but as any properly structured system would be lost with out the balance of the other influences. Pyramids and caste systems have a correctness to them when regarded in their proper supportive and interactive structures. That is another tangent though.

Getting back to balance we have the two "horns" in a reverse yin/yang type of presentation. Horns are very representative of divinity through higher receptivity as antennae. Hathors had horns as well as stagmen and the Celtic god Cernunnos. Viking helmets are another manifestation of this energetic symbolism. The unicorn is chastity as it stands alone. Male chastity specifically. What looks like a face-plate hints at warrior, or dukedom.
The bottom rose is where a heart chakra would be and the top one is at the crown. All in all, a very noble sacred warrior in service to the highest good is indicated. It is a very uplifting and exalting crest. I get a very ancient feel from it when the masculine stood in service to Sovereignty and kept Her safe from being profaned.

My two cents worth on the matter.

[Dorjezigzag]

The lyre in crests on top of the facial armour is a common theme.
http://www.st-isidore.org/college/arms-roll/GutierrezVidal.jpg

[passiglight]

Hi Roman,,,,,,,,,,,,,



http://projectavalon.net/forum4/customprofilepics/profilepic3150_17.gif


Looks like a chivalric order,,,,looks masonic to me and feminine in appearance.........

Hope you are well friend

[cellardoor]

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/customprofilepics/profilepic3150_17.gif

The most interesting thing I see about this crest are the two horns sticking out of the portcullis crowned head. Baphomet instantly sprang to mind.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baphomet
While modern scholars and the Oxford English Dictionary[27] state that the origin of the name Baphomet was a probable Old French version of "Mahomet",[12][22] alternative etymologies have also been proposed:
In the 18th century, speculative theories arose that sought to tie the Knights Templar with the origins of Freemasonry.[28] Bookseller, Freemason and Illuminist[29] Friedrich Nicolai (1733–1811), in Versuch über die Beschuldigungen welche dem Tempelherrenorden gemacht worden, und über dessen Geheimniß (1782), was the first to claim that the Templars were Gnostics, and that "Baphomet" was formed from the Greek words βαφη μητȢς, baphe metous, to mean Taufe der Weisheit, "Baptism of Wisdom".[30] Nicolai "attached to it the idea of the image of the supreme God, in the state of quietude attributed to him by the Manichean Gnostics", says François Juste Marie Raynouard, and "supposed that the Templars had a secret doctrine and initiations of several grades" which "the Saracens had communicated ... to them."[31] He further connected the figura Baffometi with the pentagram of Pythagoras:
What properly was the sign of the Baffomet, 'figura Baffometi,' which was depicted on the breast of the bust representing the Creator, cannot be exactly determined.... I believe it to have been the Pythagorean pentagon (Fünfeck) of health and prosperity: ... It is well known how holy this figure was considered, and that the Gnostics had much in common with the Pythagoreans. From the prayers which the soul shall recite, according to the diagram of the Ophite-worshippers, when they on their return to God are stopped by the Archons, and their purity has to be examined, it appears that these serpent-worshippers believed they must produce a token that they had been clean on earth. I believe that this token was also the holy pentagon, the sign of their initiation (τελειας βαφης μετεος).[32]

[ROMANWKT]

Hi Dorjezigzag

Very interesting glass work, yes there is a common theme around most crests, the truth is there is very little uncommon to go by, but thank you very much for your effort, well see how it goes.

Thank you and my regards to you Dorjezigzag

roman

[DeDukshyn]

The flowers ... to me look like the bottom view of a PINE CONE -- quite accurately in fact (dogwood or poppy were my other two thoughts). The pine cone is often a symbol used to indicate the pineal gland ...

[DeDukshyn]

14413

Here I fixed it up ... ;)

[ROMANWKT]

Hi Roman

The 1st thing that came to mind when i looked at the crest was 'ISIS', i have no idea why this notion popped into my head but i shall be having a good nose around to see what i come up with

much love

Thank you learninglight you never know it could be isis, they did hide her under different orders, it its feminine, so we will see as we hopefully get more info.

Nice to see you here and my warmest regards to you and P

roman

[Seikou-Kishi]

I can say a few things about the coat of arms.

The first is that the rose is not a Tudor rose, at least not as it is presented in the picture, the blazon may say differently but I have no way of knowing that beyond a reasonable doubt.

Second: while it is the improper order to derive a blazon from a depiction (the correct order being to derive the depiction from the blazon; since individual artists may draw the same blazon differently, finding a blazon from a depiction is problematic), the tentative blazon would be 'gules a rose argent'. An internet search with these terms doesn't return much, however. A more particular description would have it "... a rose seeded and barbed argent", but a blazon of that description returns no results at all.

Third: the crest (the part sitting on the helm, not the whole thing) is very Germanic; the twin horns are a particular feature common in a lot of German heraldry, and also often lower-Scandinavian heraldry. The division of the horns into two colours (the dexter argent like the rose and the sinister gules like the field) suggest (though this is by no means certain) that the crest belongs to a cadet branch, with the undifferentiated crest belonging to the capital line. In addition, the crown from which the crest issues is an adelskrone (noble coronet) of a member of the untitled nobility.

[ROMANWKT]

Roses are symbolic of both purity, love and high spiritual attainment. As flower essences they are the royalty, but as any properly structured system would be lost with out the balance of the other influences. Pyramids and caste systems have a correctness to them when regarded in their proper supportive and interactive structures. That is another tangent though.

Getting back to balance we have the two "horns" in a reverse yin/yang type of presentation. Horns are very representative of divinity through higher receptivity as antennae. Hathors had horns as well as stagmen and the Celtic god Cernunnos. Viking helmets are another manifestation of this energetic symbolism. The unicorn is chastity as it stands alone. Male chastity specifically. What looks like a face-plate hints at warrior, or dukedom.
The bottom rose is where a heart chakra would be and the top one is at the crown. All in all, a very noble sacred warrior in service to the highest good is indicated. It is a very uplifting and exalting crest. I get a very ancient feel from it when the masculine stood in service to Sovereignty and kept Her safe from being profaned.

My two cents worth on the matter.

Well modwiz

Really nice to talk to you at last, you made me feel warm and great with your explanation, I wish to hell it was true, you really presented a beautiful picture, only time will tell if we are close to the real basic common features that are so elusive. I am only grateful that the unicorn was not there, as I would of failed my ancestry with my degenerate past hehe.

Thank you very much modwiz for a lovely expression, warm regards to you

roman

[ROMANWKT]

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/customprofilepics/profilepic3150_17.gif

The most interesting thing I see about this crest are the two horns sticking out of the portcullis crowned head. Baphomet instantly sprang to mind.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baphomet
While modern scholars and the Oxford English Dictionary[27] state that the origin of the name Baphomet was a probable Old French version of "Mahomet",[12][22] alternative etymologies have also been proposed:
In the 18th century, speculative theories arose that sought to tie the Knights Templar with the origins of Freemasonry.[28] Bookseller, Freemason and Illuminist[29] Friedrich Nicolai (1733–1811), in Versuch über die Beschuldigungen welche dem Tempelherrenorden gemacht worden, und über dessen Geheimniß (1782), was the first to claim that the Templars were Gnostics, and that "Baphomet" was formed from the Greek words βαφη μητȢς, baphe metous, to mean Taufe der Weisheit, "Baptism of Wisdom".[30] Nicolai "attached to it the idea of the image of the supreme God, in the state of quietude attributed to him by the Manichean Gnostics", says François Juste Marie Raynouard, and "supposed that the Templars had a secret doctrine and initiations of several grades" which "the Saracens had communicated ... to them."[31] He further connected the figura Baffometi with the pentagram of Pythagoras:
What properly was the sign of the Baffomet, 'figura Baffometi,' which was depicted on the breast of the bust representing the Creator, cannot be exactly determined.... I believe it to have been the Pythagorean pentagon (Fünfeck) of health and prosperity: ... It is well known how holy this figure was considered, and that the Gnostics had much in common with the Pythagoreans. From the prayers which the soul shall recite, according to the diagram of the Ophite-worshippers, when they on their return to God are stopped by the Archons, and their purity has to be examined, it appears that these serpent-worshippers believed they must produce a token that they had been clean on earth. I believe that this token was also the holy pentagon, the sign of their initiation (τελειας βαφης μετεος).[32]

Yes you could be right cellardoor, They were all at it worshiping some thing or other, but all eventually they fell to the Roman Catholic cult, thank you very nice try and interesting.

regards to you cellardoor, and thank you

roman

[ROMANWKT]

The flowers ... to me look like the bottom view of a PINE CONE -- quite accurately in fact (dogwood or poppy were my other two thoughts). The pine cone is often a symbol used to indicate the pineal gland ...

Yes again DeDukshyn this is an interesting view, I understand what you are saying as others have done above you in this thread, but the honest truth may be that they do not get to such positions for being nice people, if we are going to be honest, as history does show, possibly less spiritual and more of the aggro.

thank you for that, see how we go,regards to you
roman

[ROMANWKT]

14413

Here I fixed it up ... ;)

Yes thank you DeDukshyn, yes that look better, more detail, look bland as hell, we will see if it help, thank you

regards to you again DeDukshyn
roman

[Ellisa]

This has been such an interesting topic Roman! I find history and the past very interesting, and it is a shame we often ignore the things that make us who we are. I hope you are enjoying all the ideas you have started off!

I was sure that was a Tudor Rose! I was WRONG. Thanks to the information here, I have been searching the Luther Rose etc. It's fascinating, and actually quite important information for us still.

I agree about the Rh neg. blood posters. It is a not uncommon condition, but now, with modern medical care, it is managed well. The first child is often fine, but the blood supply of the mother can be deadly to subsequent children (depending on blood-type)..

[ROMANWKT]

I can say a few things about the coat of arms.

The first is that the rose is not a Tudor rose, at least not as it is presented in the picture, the blazon may say differently but I have no way of knowing that beyond a reasonable doubt.

Second: while it is the improper order to derive a blazon from a depiction (the correct order being to derive the depiction from the blazon; since individual artists may draw the same blazon differently, finding a blazon from a depiction is problematic), the tentative blazon would be 'gules a rose argent'. An internet search with these terms doesn't return much, however. A more particular description would have it "... a rose seeded and barbed argent", but a blazon of that description returns no results at all.

Third: the crest (the part sitting on the helm, not the whole thing) is very Germanic; the twin horns are a particular feature common in a lot of German heraldry, and also often lower-Scandinavian heraldry. The division of the horns into two colours (the dexter argent like the rose and the sinister gules like the field) suggest (though this is by no means certain) that the crest belongs to a cadet branch, with the undifferentiated crest belonging to the capital line. In addition, the crown from which the crest issues is an adelskrone (noble coronet) of a member of the untitled nobility.

Thank you for that Seikou-Kishi

I am going to have to check what some of these word you used, yes I believe your on the right track concerning the Germanic, my mothers life was spared because of the German connection even though they were not in Germany at the time of German aggression, but this connection is Saxon.

Thank you for your search Seikou-Kishi sounds good, we will hopefully see

thank you again, and regards to you
roman

[DeDukshyn]

The flowers ... to me look like the bottom view of a PINE CONE -- quite accurately in fact (dogwood or poppy were my other two thoughts). The pine cone is often a symbol used to indicate the pineal gland ...

Yes again DeDukshyn this is an interesting view, I understand what you are saying as others have done above you in this thread, but the honest truth may be that they do not get to such positions for being nice people, if we are going to be honest, as history does show, possibly less spiritual and more of the aggro.

thank you for that, see how we go,regards to you
roman

I think there is not a direct relationship between "nice people" and "knowledge of advanced things" -- like pineal gland. My 2 cents. ;)

[ROMANWKT]

This has been such an interesting topic Roman! I find history and the past very interesting, and it is a shame we often ignore the things that make us who we are. I hope you are enjoying all the ideas you have started off!

I was sure that was a Tudor Rose! I was WRONG. Thanks to the information here, I have been searching the Luther Rose etc. It's fascinating, and actually quite important information for us still.

I agree about the Rh neg. blood posters. It is a not uncommon condition, but now, with modern medical care, it is managed well. The first child is often fine, but the blood supply of the mother can be deadly to subsequent children (depending on blood-type)..

Hi Ellisa

Yes it is interesting, but I cant see any use of our dreadful history, other than a lesson which we still have difficulty with, hence the state we the stupid people allow this nonsense to repeat over and over.
And yes your right about the blood and I will see my sister soon to get the correct group for my mother.

Thank you for your interest Ellisa, and my regards to you
roman

¤=[Post Update]=¤




The flowers ... to me look like the bottom view of a PINE CONE -- quite accurately in fact (dogwood or poppy were my other two thoughts). The pine cone is often a symbol used to indicate the pineal gland ...

Yes again DeDukshyn this is an interesting view, I understand what you are saying as others have done above you in this thread, but the honest truth may be that they do not get to such positions for being nice people, if we are going to be honest, as history does show, possibly less spiritual and more of the aggro.

thank you for that, see how we go,regards to you
roman

I think there is not a direct relationship between "nice people" and "knowledge of advanced things" -- like pineal gland. My 2 cents. ;)

OK DeDukshyn

Agreed.

regards to you whatever DeDukshyn

roman

[DeDukshyn]

...
regards to you whatever DeDukshyn
...

I'm not sure what this means .. .If it means "screw off" .. then don't present it like that. just say it. ;) I don't have feelings to be hurt by. ;)

[ROMANWKT]

Hi Roman,,,,,,,,,,,,,



http://projectavalon.net/forum4/customprofilepics/profilepic3150_17.gif


Looks like a chivalric order,,,,looks masonic to me and feminine in appearance.........

Hope you are well friend

Hi passiglight

Nice to hear from you, yes I thought that it was Masonic and feminine which I think would be rare, unless high ranking female, don't as yet know, but we are getting somewhere, will see.

Thank you passiglight and my regards to you and L as always
roman

[ROMANWKT]

...
regards to you whatever DeDukshyn
...

I'm not sure what this means .. .If it means "screw off" .. then don't present it like that. just say it. ;) I don't have feelings to be hurt by. ;)

Wow there DeDukshyn, where on earth did you get that from, by my expression it meant that you could be right, which I agreed with, meaning whatever, could be right, could be wrong, sorry by my bad expression, never meant to upset you there DeDukshyn, I am grateful for your help and interest that you have shown here, I apologies for the misunderstanding.

my sincerest regards to you DeDukshyn

roman

[DeDukshyn]

...
regards to you whatever DeDukshyn
...

I'm not sure what this means .. .If it means "screw off" .. then don't present it like that. just say it. ;) I don't have feelings to be hurt by. ;)

Wow there DeDukshyn, where on earth did you get that from, by my expression it meant that you could be right, which I agreed with, meaning whatever, could be right, could be wrong, sorry by my bad expression, never meant to upset you there DeDukshyn, I am grateful for your help and interest that you have shown here, I apologies for the misunderstanding.

my sincerest regards to you DeDukshyn

roman

I'm not upset at all! I really appreciate you, but I AM all for very clear clear communications -- I was just very confused with the way you worded it. no apologies needed! I wasn't introducing emotion .. but the type of bluntness I presented was likely very unexpected as it is not politically correct (with no apologies). No offense taken (nor intended) and thank you for clarifying!

D

[Ellisa]

Roman- There is a saying- "Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it". We need to be aware of what exactly we humans are capable of . We should not forget that we are all capable of some horrific atrocities as well as petty cruelties, but we can also be glad when we are witness to the good that we see around us every day. History needs to tell both sides of our human behaviour, and we should acknowledge it. Hiding facts does not help.

Your search through the symbolic meanings behind the design of this crest, which is of significance to your heritage, is showing how much history is involved and how it extends even into our modern lives. How do you feel about the suggestions so far so far?

[ROMANWKT]

...
regards to you whatever DeDukshyn
...

I'm not sure what this means .. .If it means "screw off" .. then don't present it like that. just say it. ;) I don't have feelings to be hurt by. ;)

Wow there DeDukshyn, where on earth did you get that from, by my expression it meant that you could be right, which I agreed with, meaning whatever, could be right, could be wrong, sorry by my bad expression, never meant to upset you there DeDukshyn, I am grateful for your help and interest that you have shown here, I apologies for the misunderstanding.

my sincerest regards to you DeDukshyn

roman

I'm not upset at all! I really appreciate you, but I AM all for very clear clear communications -- I was just very confused with the way you worded it. no apologies needed! I wasn't introducing emotion .. but the type of bluntness I presented was likely very unexpected as it is not politically correct (with no apologies). No offense taken (nor intended) and thank you for clarifying!

D

Please don't disappear on me DeDukshyn, if you find this thread interesting, which I see that you do, please continue, I am grateful for your contribution.

regards to you again DeDukshyn

roman

[ROMANWKT]

Roman- There is a saying- "Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it". We need to be aware of what exactly we humans are capable of . We should not forget that we are all capable of some horrific atrocities as well as petty cruelties, but we can also be glad when we are witness to the good that we see around us every day. History needs to tell both sides of our human behaviour, and we should acknowledge it. Hiding facts does not help.

Your search through the symbolic meanings behind the design of this crest, which is of significance to your heritage, is showing how much history is involved and how it extends even into our modern lives. How do you feel about the suggestions so far so far?

HI Ellisa

Firstly I totally agree with you, it seems that I have again in this case also not expressed my self properly, I expressed how futile the history lesson were that we have had already, and that no change has occurred by the event of this world right now, which means exactly ( I hope) what you are saying, that for all the history lessons, were are still repeating the nonsense, making the same mistakes.

Most grateful and my regards to you again Ellisa

roman

[DeDukshyn]

I've tried to search for the image with some image search sites but with no avail.

Ok, so I will try to break it down here from my POV in case there may be a clue in it ..

There's left dark and a right light elements. The flower appears pine cone or maybe dogwood? (I retract poppy as a four petaled flower). The upper extended elements appear to be horns to me - things that "speak", "dictate" or "draw forth". They extend from a crown? The shield is fully dark ... hmm dark shield that is an interesting concept for me. shield obviously represents defense, or contentedness, or security. Yet the "flower" is white, and the collar supporting the crown is white. I get mixed messages from this. But have nothing to offer in practical terms.

[Carmody]

I would like to ask you my learned friends if anyone can understand the symbolism of this crest, it was given to me when I was 13 years old by a most wonderful lady, right after her husband died. She had given birth to 3 children, all over 11 pounds each and had an extremely rare blood, which was always a big burden to her at giving birth and
further calamities of life. None of her children inherited the rare blood group, which was a blessing to her wonderful heart.

That Lady was my mother, and this is all we have left of her families crest. She died 2 years ago today on her 90th year.

I have been waiting for somebody to ask me what my avatar was, and nobody did.

So anyways, it looks like I am an illuminati bastard, and the bastards forgot about me, hehe

SO I would really be interested what the hell it means, this was a hand copy from the British museum 50 years ago, the guy who was doing this for my parents died, and thats as far as it went.

Fathers connection is all top brass military and law, Mothers connection to the Czechoslovakian throne.

Now any comments on me being a Illuninati bastard will not end up as a smack on the face, but the traditional removal of a face, hehehe.

Regards to all, what do you thing???

roman

My first hint was that the five pointed star was inverted, in both cases.

understanding the older context of the striping in heraldry is critical, I think. This also plays from the century and the country from which the crest comes from, regarding the meanings.

[Dorjezigzag]

Horns are an interesting one, many people question why much medievel art seems to depict moses and the angels with horns, they are in fact rays of light.Laterly Chagall played on this in his art.

Within heraldry and art in general there is often that which the unitiated will 'see' and that which the initiated will percieve. A secret language of symbols. This is a tradition often seen in the works of leonardo and Dali.

Yes they can be seen as horns but look they are also trumpets and they follow the curve of the lyre. Here are some further examples which illustrate my point.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Coatofarms-Bielke.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/ff/Coatofarms-Brahe.jpg

By the way this is not some made up theory of mine, this is accepted by scholars.

I conclude with a quote

Praise him with the sounding of the trumpet, praise him with the harp and lyre, Psalm 150:3

[Ellisa]

That is so interesting Dorjezigzag. In view of your quote-- would the origin of these crests lie in service in Holy Wars (maybe the medieval crusades) perhaps?

This topic is exploring a really interesting area I think. I do hope Roman is enjoying the variety of the individual suggestions. Plenty of room for research!

[ROMANWKT]

Thank you all for your help and interest, but will call it a day on this. I found enough information to tell me its POLISH, and those that assumed that the horns were a German connection are correct.

Now you can see what is basically a finished crest.

Thank you all for your help

roman




http://projectavalon.net/forum4/asset.php?fid=11070&uid=3150&d=1331284967





THE END



PS I apologize that some people cant see anything unless logged in, but after 4 attempts to bring out the images, no response, therefore will ask the mods if they can help.

[Earth Angel]

ok so if I have Rh negative and a rather longer than usual tail bone, does this make me a reptile ?? ( I am going on the fact that when I had kids I had to have as shot of something or my blood was at risk of fighting the babies ??) I was young and didn't ask questions then......maybe I got it all wrong.....sorry if I am taking this OT



[SIZE="3"]
Here is an interesting thread discussing blood-types (particularly rh neg.) from Davidn Ike.com forum. I think its a connection between rh negative and the reptilian races.

http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=51245

No, this is not correct.

"If two Rh-Negs try to have a baby it will usually die or be born a "BLUE Baby", because it is Not processing oxygen properly. Thus "Blue-Bloods", if they survive. 5% of the Earth's population are currently Rh-Negatives. But, they are 15% of the population of the England and the USA."

If an Rh-Neg and an Rh-Pos have a child it can be a Blue Baby. Nothing happens when two RH-negatives or two RH-positives have a child, the RH factor doesn't kick in at all. If this element is wrong in such a statement, it is possible other aspects are mistaken as well. It's a pretty serious error.

[ThePythonicCow]

ok so if I have Rh negative and a rather longer than usual tail bone, does this make me a reptile ?? ( I am going on the fact that when I had kids I had to have as shot of something or my blood was at risk of fighting the babies ??) I was young and didn't ask questions then......maybe I got it all wrong.....sorry if I am taking this OT
The shot (two Rh immune-globulin shots ) and the situation (Rh negative mother, Rh positive father, subsequent births after having an Rh positive child) are explained here: http://kidshealth.org/parent/pregnancy_center/your_pregnancy/rh.html