Australian children to be sterilized without parental consent under new eugenics law

[Cjay]

This is a VERY disturbing proposed new law. We have less than 24 hours to send comments to the Western Australia government.


The Government of Western Australia's Mental Health Commission (WAMHC) has basically conjured up a proposal for new mental health legislation that bypasses parental involvement in the mental health treatment process, and instead tasks children under age 18, and of any age, with making the decision about whether or not to be sterilized, or whether or not to have their brain tissue destroyed with psychosurgery procedures.


Mental Health Commission is only accepting comments on the bill until March 9, 2012

That gives us less than 24 hours to respond.

Please read the full article here:
http://www.naturalnews.com/035185_Australia_sterilization_children.html
where you will find details of the official channel for comments.

[fox.mulder]

Actually i think the concept is a good idea and i think it should be extended to the majority of the all the ****wits that live in my country. It seems that only the less intelligent tend to breed more less intelligent people. This will solve alot of world problems.

[jcocks]

That's not a very enlightened position to take, fox... And that's putting it rather mildly....

[Anchor]

This draft Bill has been prepared for public comment but it does not necessarily represent the Government’s settled position.

What is the impact of only having 24hrs to respond to a draft?

Time limits are artificial.

You can respond as much as you like and if you don't like what you read, you should respond, respond in force !

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Fox, dont let the guidestones hit you on the way out of this thread, that was not a very nice thing of you to say.

Exactly which world problems will be solved?

Who decides who's intelligent, or better yet what intelligence IS?

Who decides who will be allowed to breed?

Why the anger, what have all these people you dont even know ever done to you besides breathing and existing?

[conk]

Actually i think the concept is a good idea and i think it should be extended to the majority of the all the ****wits that live in my country. It seems that only the less intelligent tend to breed more less intelligent people. This will solve alot of world problems.
And who decides? What criteria? When do they come for you and yours next?

Edit: Sorry 665, I see you already said it.

[truth will win out]

Actually i think the concept is a good idea and i think it should be extended to the majority of the all the ****wits that live in my country. It seems that only the less intelligent tend to breed more less intelligent people. This will solve alot of world problems.

Wow...
That is just real sad.

[Cilka]

People, have you noticed? The system, with whatever law they intend to pass, has done exactly that what it was intended to do. It created more division, hate and anger among you. Instead of fighting the system, you are fighting each other. That is the reason why it is almost impossible to win this game. The system (governements) will always win in every situation.

[fox.mulder]

People, have you noticed? The system, with whatever law they intend to pass, has done exactly that what it was intended to do. It created more division, hate and anger among you. Instead of fighting the system, you are fighting each other. That is the reason why it is almost impossible to win this game. The system (governements) will always win in every situation.

Yes yes yes you are right Cilka it is impossible to win this game. However..............maybe our little bald friend Gandhi had the answer.......non complience.....he is one little bald smart f***ker!

So people stop ****ing breeding........keep IT in ur pants................

Dont get me wrong my comment upstairs were not a troll....im serious... you are never gonna win this game with active action......if you think so then you are deluded.

You just cant stop obeying rules or not pay ur mortgage, you just practically cant do this. BUT....you can stop breeding..........dont play the game any more.

If any of you have visited the non physical realm....you will know that life on earth as a human pales into insignificance........The human brain is just a sponge for the next belief you can cling too to sooth the ego, fear and to nurture any hope. When you breed you just bring along the next human who is just gonna be the next ****wit that is going to get caught up in the illusion. STOP BREEDING.

[WhiteFeather]

I thought Americans had their hands tied behind their backs. This is sickening. Time for an Australian Revolution Perhaps.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTyAZTvLfAM

[truth will win out]

People, have you noticed? The system, with whatever law they intend to pass, has done exactly that what it was intended to do. It created more division, hate and anger among you. Instead of fighting the system, you are fighting each other. That is the reason why it is almost impossible to win this game. The system (governements) will always win in every situation.

Yes yes yes you are right Cilka it is impossible to win this game. However..............maybe our little bald friend Gandhi had the answer.......non complience.....he is one little bald smart f***ker!

So people stop ****ing breeding........keep IT in ur pants................

Dont get me wrong my comment upstairs were not a troll....im serious... you are never gonna win this game with active action......if you think so then you are deluded.

You just cant stop obeying rules or not pay ur mortgage, you just practically cant do this. BUT....you can stop breeding..........dont play the game any more.

If any of you have visited the non physical realm....you will know that life on earth as a human pales into insignificance........The human brain is just a sponge for the next belief you can cling too to sooth the ego, fear and to nurture any hope. When you breed you just bring along the next human who is just gonna be the next ****wit that is going to get caught up in the illusion. STOP BREEDING.

I have in my meditations reached many a splendid place for a lack of a better word. Seen the world(and the Dimensions that are alive and surround us) for what it truly is and I have never received or been communicated to that Eugenics is a positive thing for man-kind. Do we need to practice a little more restraint when it comes to breeding? Yes, but we don't need to start sterilizing people to achieve that goal.

I would rather stop paying my mortgage than sterilize people I find unfit.

[humanalien]

Actually i think the concept is a good idea and i think it should be extended to the majority of the all the ****wits that live in my country. It seems that only the less intelligent tend to breed more less intelligent people. This will solve alot of world problems.

I hope you choke on those words. What gives you the right to say who dies and who lives?

[fox.mulder]

Actually i think the concept is a good idea and i think it should be extended to the majority of the all the ****wits that live in my country. It seems that only the less intelligent tend to breed more less intelligent people. This will solve alot of world problems.

I hope you choke on those words. What gives you the right to say who dies and who lives?

Humanalien you are yet another example of the delusion that is prevalent. Where did i say anywhere about choosing people dying or living? Show me......

[fox.mulder]

People, have you noticed? The system, with whatever law they intend to pass, has done exactly that what it was intended to do. It created more division, hate and anger among you. Instead of fighting the system, you are fighting each other. That is the reason why it is almost impossible to win this game. The system (governements) will always win in every situation.

Yes yes yes you are right Cilka it is impossible to win this game. However..............maybe our little bald friend Gandhi had the answer.......non complience.....he is one little bald smart f***ker!

So people stop ****ing breeding........keep IT in ur pants................

Dont get me wrong my comment upstairs were not a troll....im serious... you are never gonna win this game with active action......if you think so then you are deluded.

You just cant stop obeying rules or not pay ur mortgage, you just practically cant do this. BUT....you can stop breeding..........dont play the game any more.

If any of you have visited the non physical realm....you will know that life on earth as a human pales into insignificance........The human brain is just a sponge for the next belief you can cling too to sooth the ego, fear and to nurture any hope. When you breed you just bring along the next human who is just gonna be the next ****wit that is going to get caught up in the illusion. STOP BREEDING.

I have in my meditations reached many a splendid place for a lack of a better word. Seen the world(and the Dimensions that are alive and surround us) for what it truly is and I have never received or been communicated to that Eugenics is a positive thing for man-kind. Do we need to practice a little more restraint when it comes to breeding? Yes, but we don't need to start sterilizing people to achieve that goal.

I would rather stop paying my mortgage than sterilize people I find unfit.

It's not about forced sterilization......its about choice......and seeing the illusion for what it is. If you want to beat them, then dont play.

[Cilka]

Oh brother, I think there is too much anger here. I don't want to participate here. Have a good chat.

[MacStar]

Hey guys and gals I've just been accepted here as you can see and Synchronicity has hit me in the face!!

I knew about this and have posted on other(unrelated) forums here is Australia.

You're not getting the full picture from Natural News as has been the case on a few occassions of late.The infamous Exploding "E-Cig"...actually a home-made "Mod" with no vents,dual unprotected batteries...Darwin Award nominee,not the pictures you saw.I Vape using a Genuine CE approved protected Joyetech eGo.Switched to these and away from the Analogues after 20 years smoking RYO's.
Big Pharma tactics and Media Hype.
A tad disappoited in the Health Ranger on this one...anyway :rolleyes:

Here is a summary that will point out the facts as I am a mental health advocate and consumer,I get the heads-up when it comes hot off the press.

I will split it into 4 parts,as I'm not familiar yet with how much text I can fit per post yet ;)
Please bear with me,we have until 5PM today,they tried a similar proposal for forcing Parents to Medicate kids with ADD/ADHD with the threat of having them removed if they refused to comply.This was late last year and who knew??

Thankfully for now the Bill was upheld due to Conflicts of interest,and only because WE pointed this out in our responses.In short they found at least one Board member not reporting being Paid Off by Big Pharma(Eli Lily,Cilag and some others) and not reporting spendings.
A small victory...we are still fighting.

The Issue at hand NOW:

Children able to consent to sterilisation and 12 year olds to consent to psychosurgery and electroshock without any parental consent in W.A.

Feedback closes on the 9th March 2012

CHILDREN OF ANY AGE TO CONSENT TO STERILISATION: If a psychiatrist decides that a child (under 18 years) has sufficient maturity, he or she will be able to consent to sterilisation. Parental consent will not be needed. Only after the sterilisation procedure has been performed does it have to be reported and then only to the Chief Psychiatrist. [Pages: 135 & 136 of the Draft Mental Health Bill 2011]

12 YEAR OLDS WILL BE ABLE TO CONSENT TO PSYCHOSURGERY: Psychosurgery is banned in N.S.W. and the N.T. for persons of any age because it destroys healthy brain tissue and is dangerous and potentially deadly. Psychosurgery can involve surgical cutting or burning of the brain, or electrodes can be permanently placed in the brain sending electrical current through the brain. It can cause memory loss, irreversible brain damage, delirium, bleeding in the brain, suicide and post-operative death. Despite this, the draft bill is proposing to allow a 12-year- old child, if considered to be sufficiently mature by a psychiatrist, to consent to psychosurgery. Parental consent will not be needed. Once the child has consented it goes before the State Mental Health Tribunal for approval. Again, parental consent is not needed for the Mental Health Tribunal to approve the psychosurgery. The Tribunal is only required to "consider" the parent's or guardian's views when they approve the psychosurgery. However, there is a section headed, "Parent or guardian may be excluded from hearing" covering how a psychiatrist can tell the Tribunal it is not in the child's best interest for the parents to be at the hearing. Therefore, parents may not even be able to express their views at the hearing. Psychosurgery should be banned, as it is in N.S.W. and N.T. [Pages: 108, 109, 110, 197, 198, 199, 213 of the Draft Mental Health Bill 2011]

12 YEAR OLDS WILL BE ABLE TO CONSENT TO ELECTROSHOCK (ECT): Electroshock is the application of hundreds of volts of electricity to the head. It can cause brain damage and permanent memory loss, as well as death. Any child aged 12 and over, whom a child and adolescent psychiatrist decides is mature enough, will be able to consent to electroshock without the need for parental consent. Also, once the child has consented, there is no requirement for anyone else, including the Mental Health Tribunal to approve the electroshock. If the child is involuntarily detained and aged over 12, a psychiatrist can give consent for the child and the Mental Health Tribunal gives final approval. Again, no parental consent is required for the Tribunal to approve the electroshock.

Involuntary patients over 18 years of age can also be given "Emergency ECT." No consent is needed from the patient or next of kin, just approval from the Chief Psychiatrist. It is not known if this approval will be given over the phone or in writing, as this is not stated in the draft bill. Some facts about ECT:

The 2001 Policies and Procedure Manual of W.A.'s Graylands psychiatric hospital warned staff that once the electroshock machine was turned on, "it was as lethal as a loaded gun and should be treated as such".
Medicare-funded-electroshock treatments in W.A. increased 50% between 2005 and 2011. Freedom of Information Requests revealed that in 2007/08 children aged 11 to 15 were given electroshock. In 2009/10 there were 16 children under the age of 18 who were given electroshock. If this Mental Health Draft Bill is implemented, the numbers of children receiving electroshock can only skyrocket, as all required safeguards to protect children are not in the bill.
Voluntary patients in W.A. who refuse to consent to electroshock are threatened with involuntary commitment. A voluntary patient was given electroshock in 2010/11 despite refusing to give consent. Threats to make a patient involuntary if they refuse any treatment are common.1 To be forced to receive damaging physical treatment with permanent debilitating consequences is a violation of fundamental human rights.

It is the role of Parliament to protect citizens from harmful psychiatric practices encased in law. If Parliament had not banned Deep Sleep Treatment (where patients were put into a drug induced coma and battered with electroshock) in N.S.W. it would still be legal. In N.S.W., 48 people died in the infamous Chelmsford Private Psychiatric Hospital after receiving Deep Sleep Treatment and it took a Royal Commission to expose the human rights abuses. For years the psychiatric profession had turned a blind eye and failed to effectively act against its members whose conduct was abusive and criminal. They must have external scrutiny and review.

While electroshock is set to be banned in the draft bill for any child under 12 only, in 2009 the previous W.A. Mental Health Minister Mr. Graham Jacobs, said he believed it should not be given to any child under 16 and he believed most people would want the age cut-off to be higher than 12 years. Electroshock should be completely banned, but its use on the elderly, pregnant women and children is especially destructive and should be prohibited. [Pages: 100, 101, 103, 104, 194, 105 of the Draft Mental Health Bill 2011]

AGE OF A CHILD: The age of a minor is determined by existing laws and this proposed draft of the Mental Health Bill also defines a child as "a person under 18". While society restricts 12 year olds from smoking cigarettes, drinking alcohol, skipping school, having sex and driving a vehicle, psychiatry wants them to "consent" to mind-altering drugs, electroshock, psychosurgery and sterilisation. How is it that a 12 year old, according to a psychiatrist's subjective opinion, could "have sufficient maturity and understanding to make reasonable decisions about matters relating to him or herself" when the information provided by psychiatry is biased and subjective? [Page 3 of the Draft Mental Health Bill 2011]

PARENTS RIGHT TO VISIT & COMMUNICATE WITH THEIR CHILD CAN BE REMOVED: At any time a psychiatrist can decide it is not in the child's best interest to see his or her parents. The psychiatrist can make an order which prohibits the right of a parent to visit or communicate with their child, and refuse the child access to the telephone or visits from friends. [Pages: 145, 146 of the Draft Mental Health Bill 2011]

KIDS PLACED IN PSYCHIATRIC WARDS WITH ADULTS: The draft bill does not rule out children being held in wards with adults if the mental health service considers it is appropriate for them to be there. Children should never be treated in a psychiatric ward with adults. To consider exposing children to such an environment shows pitiful respect for them and leaves them open to physical and sexual abuse in an environment where there is insufficient supervision. [Page 161 of the Draft Mental Health Bill 2011]

RESTRAINT AND SECLUSION OF CHILDREN: Children can be restrained in a psychiatric institution. Only the use of mechanical restraint (manacles, belts, straps etc.) and the use of bodily force by others are covered in the draft bill. Chemical restraint, the use of psychiatric drugs to subdue and control the person, is not covered in the draft bill, so there are no legal safeguards to prevent its application. In the 2009 National Mental Health Consumer and Carer Forum's (NMHCCF) report "Ending Seclusion and Restraint in Australian Mental Health Services", it states: "Chemical restraint is unacceptable as a form of involuntary restraint in any circumstance" and is an "exceptionally dangerous experience for people with a mental illness, as documented previously by the Mental Health Council of Australia".2

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Death can result from all forms of restraint. Only an oral order is needed for the restraint of a child. This order can be given not only by a psychiatrist, but also by a psychologist, nurse, social worker or occupational therapist. The National Mental Health Consumer & Carer Forum's position is that involuntary seclusion and restraint should be "eradicated from use in Australia's mental health services", "are commonly associated with human rights abuse", "are not evidence-based therapeutic interventions," and can "cause short term and long term emotional damage to consumers". It is terrifying for adults, much less children. No law should force such abuse on any individual.3

The draft bill allows for any child to be secluded at any time in a psychiatric facility. The Council of Official Visitors, set up to assist involuntary patients and inspect psychiatric facilities, reported in their 2011 annual report that they had received complaints regarding rough treatment towards secluded patients, clothing removed from patients when in seclusion, patients secluded too often and patients secluded with no toilet facilities, drinks or blankets provided.4 It is not known how many seclusions or restraints occur, as shockingly it is not a current reporting requirement under the existing Mental Health Act. However a 2005 report stated that there were 2,083 seclusions in W.A. for that year.5 [Pages:122, 121, 113, 246 of the Draft Mental Health Bill 2011]

CHILDREN CAN ADMIT THEMSELVES TO A PSYCHIATRIC FACILITY & CONSENT TO DRUGS WITHOUT PARENTAL CONSENT: Any child, regardless of age, who according to a psychiatrist "has sufficient maturity and understanding to make reasonable decisions about matters relating to him or herself" can admit themselves to a psychiatric hospital without parental approval and consent to potentially harmful recommended psychotropic drugs. [Page 160 of the Draft Mental Health Bill 2011]

INVOLUNTARY COMMITMENT OF CHILDREN: At any time or place, a medical practitioner or authorised mental health practitioner (the draft bill does not even define who this will be) who "suspects" a child of mental illness can make a legal order for them to be sent for psychiatric assessment. Even a child at a medical appointment or in a general hospital suspected of mental illness could be detained for up to 3 days while awaiting transport for assessment. Once the child is transported to the assessing psychiatrist (usually at a psychiatric hospital) the psychiatrist can involuntarily detain the child for up to 14 days. Parents will not be able to discharge their child and take them home; the psychiatrist has the power to prevent parents from seeing their child if they decide it is in the child's best interest. A psychiatrist can then make a "continuation order" to continue the involuntary commitment for up to 3 months once the 14 days has expired. He or she can continue to do this in up to 3 month blocks each time. During detainment the child could be drugged, restrained, secluded, given electroshock (if 12 or over) and could be put into a ward with adults. Parental consent is not required to continue the detainment or for any treatment.

APPEAL: The parents can appeal the child's involuntary detainment to the Mental Health Tribunal. If parents don't appeal, the Tribunal must review the child's involuntary detainment within 10 days of admission to the psychiatric hospital and then every 28 days. The Tribunal cannot order a psychiatrist to change the treatment the child is receiving. A psychiatrist can tell the Tribunal it is not in the child's best interest for the parents to be at the hearing and parents can be excluded.

There are no guarantees that an appeal or hearing at the Mental Health Review Tribunal will result in the child being allowed to go home. In 2010/11 there were 1,248 hearings for all ages of patients with the current W.A. Mental Health Review Board. Only 4.6% (58) people had their status changed from involuntary to voluntary.6

There should be no difference in parental rights with psychiatric treatment than there is with any other medical treatment. It is completely unacceptable to remove parental rights over children where those parents are not subject to legal orders preventing them access to their children.

As currently written in the Draft Mental Health Bill 2011, a psychiatrist can also prohibit any patient from receiving visits from his or her lawyer. The South Australian government provides funding for a lawyer of the person's choice for mental health tribunal hearings so that each person has the right to independent legal representation.7 The W.A. draft bill omits such a scheme. This must be added so that every involuntary patient in W.A. receives fair legal representation. Many involuntary patients cannot afford lawyers. The Mental Health Law Centre provides free legal advice to as many involuntary patients as it can, but are not able to help everyone who contacts them because they are grossly underfunded. Consequently, many involuntary patients are left vulnerable without someone to care for their interests and needs.

For adults, involuntary detainment is the same except the initial commitment time can be up to 21 days and waiting time for an initial review is up to 35 days and then every 3 months.

[MacStar]

In 2011, $244.7 million was spent on admitted patients.8 In 2010/11, there were 2,842 people involuntarily detained (of which, 930 were detained for the first time). This is a 12% increase over 2007/08.9 Parents and guardians should always be the decision maker regarding their child's health—including mental health—needs. This is especially so given the harmful side-effects and permanent disabilities that can result from psychiatric treatments.

Further, this Draft denies parents and adults the right to defend themselves or their child in a court of law prior to incarceration. A criminal defendant has more rights than someone presenting for committal to a psychiatric facility. Only a judge or magistrate should be able to order detainment of a person who is defended by a lawyer of their choice—and at the cost of the State seeking to deprive the person of liberty. [Pages: 21, 22, 35, 19, 107, 36, 53, 54, 183, 184, 185, 190, 191, 213, 214 of the Draft Mental Health Bill 2011]

CHILDREN AND COMMUNITY TREATMENT ORDER (CTO): A community treatment order is a legal order that enforces treatment, usually mind-altering drugs, in the community. A psychiatrist can issue a CTO which only needs to be confirmed by another medical practitioner or authorised mental health practitioner. If the child is in a psychiatric hospital, that confirmation by another practitioner is not required. The initial CTO can be for up to 3 months. A continuation order for the CTO can be made for subsequent 3 month blocks. If the child or adult non-complies with the CTO, he or she can be ordered to attend a place and given (forced to undergo) treatment. If the person does not attend, he or she can be picked up and involuntarily detained in a psychiatric hospital—and therein be subject to enforced treatment. Mental Health Tribunal hearings must occur within 10 days of a child being placed on a CTO and thereafter, every 28 days. There is no guarantee that the Tribunal will agree to the child being taken off the CTO. In 2010/11, only 26 people were taken off their CTO.10

CTO's in W.A. have increased approximately 20% since 2007/08.11 [Page: 18, 46, 47, 48, 65, 66, 70, 73, 75, 76, 77, 183, 184 of the Draft Mental Health Bill 2011]

WHO WILL BE ABLE TO DETAIN A CHILD IS NOT FULLY KNOWN: The Draft Bill states that a medical practitioner or an authorised mental health practitioner can write a legal order for compulsory psychiatric assessment or involuntarily detaining of a child or adult. However, an "authorised mental health practitioner" is not defined, leaving it open to wide-sweeping interpretation—not approved by the legislature. The bill alarmingly states that the Chief Psychiatrist can decide the qualifications of the "authorised practitioner" and publish this in the Gazette. This clause must be removed. Only a judge or magistrate should have the power to detain someone. [Pages: 246, 247, 21, 22 of the Draft Mental Health Bill 2011]

ENFORCED DRUGGING OF CHILDREN: If a child or adult is an involuntary patient, he or she can be forced to take drugs against their will, despite the serious—often life-threatening—side-effects. Parental consent is not needed for the child, violating the parental right to decide the child's healthcare needs. These drugs are not like medical drugs, which commonly treat, prevent or cure physical disease. These drugs are treating behavioural and emotional issues and have horrific side-effects, including hallucinations, psychosis, heart problems and suicidal behaviour. There have been 629 deaths linked to antipsychotics in Australia, 15 of those for children under 19 and another 286 deaths linked to antidepressants, 5 of which were aged between 10 and 19.

CONSENT LAWS: While the new consent laws are an improvement, they only apply to a voluntary patient. If a parent refuses to give consent for treatment for their child or a patient does not consent, a psychiatrist can arbitrarily assert "they unreasonably refused treatment" and force treatment anyway. [Pages: 160, 13, 14, 19, 20 of the Draft Mental Health Bill 2011]

ADVOCATES: There will be a Chief Mental Health Advocate that a child or adult can contact when a referral for assessment is made or when admitted. A youth advocate must visit the child within 24 hours of admission to a psychiatric hospital. Advocates can inquire into and report on: whether the patient's rights have been upheld, inquire into any complaints on behalf of the person and refer the issues to the appropriate person, assist the patient to file a complaint, assist him or her to access legal services and attend hearings with him or her. As the Draft Bill is currently written, advocates do not have any specific power to immediately intervene and halt an abuse. Their powers include: to ensure that documents and data are provided to them about the patient, and to report problems to the head of the mental health service and then the Chief Psychiatrist who will decide if further investigation is needed and assist the patient as mentioned above. [Pages: 4, 5, 23, 27, 170, 171, 168, 169 of the Draft Mental Health Bill 2011]

CARERS' RIGHTS: The addition of new carers and "nominated persons" rights (a person nominated by the patient to ensure their rights are observed and their best interests are taken into account) is also an addition that can be completely overruled by a psychiatrist. Carers and nominated persons play a significant role, yet at any time a psychiatrist can decide that it is not in the patient's best interest that they be involved and can exclude a carer or nominated person. [Pages: 147, 154, 206 of the Draft Mental Health Bill 2011]

NO INDEPENDENT INSPECTION OF PSYCHIATRIC INSTITUTIONS: Currently the Council of Official Visitors can inspect psychiatric hospitals, wards and hostels. As a result, many have exposed the horrific conditions that patients are subjected to and the appalling state of psychiatric wards. This has included: patients wearing communal underwear, basin taps not working; urine, faeces and vomit in wards, cockroaches in cupboards, filthy bathrooms and broken furniture. These conditions are not therapeutic for anyone. The Council of Official Visitors will be replaced by Advocates in the Draft Bill. However, no one is given the responsibility of inspections. This prevents an objective watchdog role that could uncover abusive conditions that patients suffer.

WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS DRAFT BILL?: The W.A. Mental Health Commission (MHC) was responsible for writing the Draft Mental Health Bill. The person overseeing this was the Mental Health Commissioner and clinical psychologist, Mr Eddie Bartnik. The MHC was allocated a budget of more than half a billion dollars in 2010/2011 for W.A.'s mental health system (this is up 37% from 2007/08)12 W.A. spends more per capita on mental health services than any other state in Australia.13

With a budget of this size, one would expect the MHC's performance indicators to include accountability for the money spent. In 2012, Sebastian Rosenberg, a senior lecturer at the University of Sydney's Brain and Mind Research Institute said that despite the billions poured into mental health by successive state and federal governments, and despite the $2.2 billion allocated in the most recent federal budget, there was "a dearth of information about outcomes for people with a mental illness".14

Instead key performance indicators largely involving "the number of people using mental health services" are used by the MHC to determine the mental health wellbeing of Western Australians.15 This grossly underestimates the monitoring system required.

SOLUTIONS: Some children who are troubled undoubtedly require special care. But they should get holistic, humane care that improves their condition. They should be treated with care and compassion. Institutions should be turned into safe havens where parents can seek help for their children, other family members or themselves, without the fear of indefinite incarceration or harmful and inhumane treatment. They need a safe, quiet environment, good nutrition, rest, exercise and help with life's problems. Extensive medical evidence proves that underlying and undiagnosed physical illness can manifest as "psychiatric" symptoms and, therefore, should be addressed with the correct medical treatment, not unworkable psychiatric techniques. Studies show that once the physical condition is corrected, the mental symptoms disappear. Anyone admitted to a psychiatric institution should have the right to a full physical examination and for referral to a specialist as needed. With proper medical care and help with life's problems, people can lead healthier and happier lives. Psychiatrists admit they do not know the cause of any mental disorder and have absolutely no cures. Yet this oppressive Bill expects taxpayers to fund a coercive system that not only does not work, it also harms.

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last bit

http://www.cchr.org.au/images/storie...l_One_Page.pdf
http://www.cchr.org.au/images/storie...ge_Summary.pdf

WHAT YOU CAN DO:

1. Write expressing your objections to the Draft Mental Health Bill 2011 and send it to the Mental Health Commission. Feedback closes 9th March 2012 at 5 pm.

Email: contactus@mentalhealth.wa.gov.au

Mail: GPO Box X2299 Perth Business Centre, W.A. 6847

Send a copy of your objections to the Mental Health Minister, Health Minister and your local Member of Parliament. Find their addresses at: http://www.parliament.wa.gov.au/parliament/memblist.nsf/WAllMembers

2. Tell others so they too can take action and write a "Letter to the Editor" to your local and state newspapers.

3. The draft bill can be viewed on the W.A. Mental Health Commission website http://www.mentalhealth. wa.gov.au under "Mental Health Changes" and then, "Mental Health Legislation."

4. For more information on this summary, contact the Citizens Committee on Human Rights (CCHR) Perth Office on (08) 9472 9181, email@cchr-wa.org

1 Council of Official Visitors Annual Report 2010-2011, page 8.
2 "Ending Seclusion and Restraint in Australian Mental Health Services" National Mental Health Consumer and Carer Forum 2009, pages 6.
3 "Ending Seclusion and Restraint in Australian Mental Health Services" National Mental Health Consumer and Carer Forum 2009, page 7.
4 Council of Official Visitors Annual Report 2010-2011, pages 79, 84, 86, 89.
5 Mental Health Review Board Western Australia Annual Report 2005, page 20.
6 Council of Official Visitors Annual Report 2010-2011, page 17.
7 Section 84, Representations on appeals to Board, South Australian Mental Health Act 2009, page 50.
8 Mental Health Commission Annual Report 2010-2011, page 32.
9 Council of Official Visitors Annual Report 2010-2011, pages 58 & 59.
10 Council of Official Visitors Annual Report 2010-2011, page 17.
11 Council of Official Visitors Annual Report 2010-2011, page 59.
11 Mental Health Commission Annual Report 2011-2012, page 3, Budget bulletin 2011/12 Government of Western Australia, Australian Government National Mental Health Report 2010, Department of Health and Ageing, 7 May 2011
12 Australian Government, National Mental Health Report 2010, page 28.
The Australian newspaper "Mental Health Policy 'fails to show results'" January 31st 2012
Mental Health Commission Annual Report 2010-2011, page 12.

[MacStar]

After looking at The Health Ranger's site I feel that it has been blown out into Nazi Eugenics straight off the bat(which may very well be the case) BUT the actual facts and details on how to prevent this should come before jumping into this territory IMHO.
It is this knee-jerk reaction we should avoid as for the moment we can only play on a level playing field.

So please take time to read all of this,check the sources and make your submission as the last attempt was faltered by people power.

12 Year olds are what they want no doubt,but please as I said stick with the game until we do gain the upper-hand...and we will if we stop the bickering.It's what the powers that be want us to do ;)

Thanks again

[MacStar]

People, have you noticed? The system, with whatever law they intend to pass, has done exactly that what it was intended to do. It created more division, hate and anger among you. Instead of fighting the system, you are fighting each other. That is the reason why it is almost impossible to win this game. The system (governements) will always win in every situation.

Yes yes yes you are right Cilka it is impossible to win this game. However..............maybe our little bald friend Gandhi had the answer.......non complience.....he is one little bald smart f***ker!

So people stop ****ing breeding........keep IT in ur pants................

Dont get me wrong my comment upstairs were not a troll....im serious... you are never gonna win this game with active action......if you think so then you are deluded.

You just cant stop obeying rules or not pay ur mortgage, you just practically cant do this. BUT....you can stop breeding..........dont play the game any more.

If any of you have visited the non physical realm....you will know that life on earth as a human pales into insignificance........The human brain is just a sponge for the next belief you can cling too to sooth the ego, fear and to nurture any hope. When you breed you just bring along the next human who is just gonna be the next ****wit that is going to get caught up in the illusion. STOP BREEDING.

And for those who have?

This is a wholistic battle and while we can inhabit many realms mate,this is the one we have the highest affinity for.
There is a reason for this and it will be revealed in time.
There is a difference between non-compliance and giving up.I have been to other realms that are fantastic and feel more like home than here but for the moment this is where we are at this crucial point,it is my belief that we must do our part.

My 2 year old Daughter knows no different and loves this place,for her I will defend against Evil in it's many guises for Her safe charter onto the next stage....remember "they" are nothing without our FEAR ;)

Cheers,no flaming intended.

[fox.mulder]

People, have you noticed? The system, with whatever law they intend to pass, has done exactly that what it was intended to do. It created more division, hate and anger among you. Instead of fighting the system, you are fighting each other. That is the reason why it is almost impossible to win this game. The system (governements) will always win in every situation.

Yes yes yes you are right Cilka it is impossible to win this game. However..............maybe our little bald friend Gandhi had the answer.......non complience.....he is one little bald smart f***ker!

So people stop ****ing breeding........keep IT in ur pants................

Dont get me wrong my comment upstairs were not a troll....im serious... you are never gonna win this game with active action......if you think so then you are deluded.

You just cant stop obeying rules or not pay ur mortgage, you just practically cant do this. BUT....you can stop breeding..........dont play the game any more.

If any of you have visited the non physical realm....you will know that life on earth as a human pales into insignificance........The human brain is just a sponge for the next belief you can cling too to sooth the ego, fear and to nurture any hope. When you breed you just bring along the next human who is just gonna be the next ****wit that is going to get caught up in the illusion. STOP BREEDING.

And for those who have?

This is a wholistic battle and while we can inhabit many realms mate,this is the one we have the highest affinity for.
There is a reason for this and it will be revealed in time.
There is a difference between non-compliance and giving up.I have been to other realms that are fantastic and feel more like home than here but for the moment this is where we are at this crucial point,it is my belief that we must do our part.

My 2 year old Daughter knows no different and loves this place,for her I will defend against Evil in it's many guises for Her safe charter onto the next stage....remember "they" are nothing without our FEAR ;)

Cheers,no flaming intended.

Unfortunately MACSTAR if you have 2 year old daughter then you are a breeder and part of the problem. I know this sounds offensive to you but i dont intend it to be. There are too many people on this planet already. When there are thousands of children already dying in the world each year then adding another is in my books very careless. If someone would like to raise children then maybe adopt some of those already alive and living poorly. That is if one really loves children and not just love the "idea" of having children.

[humanalien]

Actually i think the concept is a good idea and i think it should be extended to the majority of the all the ****wits that live in my country. It seems that only the less intelligent tend to breed more less intelligent people. This will solve alot of world problems.

I hope you choke on those words. What gives you the right to say who dies and who lives?

Humanalien you are yet another example of the delusion that is prevalent. Where did i say anywhere about choosing people dying or living? Show me......

I'll apologize for now because i took the meaning of your post the wrong way.

The meaning i got out of that post was that if you had your way, you would
get rid of the stupid people to make way for the smarter ones.

People aren't born to be stupid, unless they have a brain malfunction of some
sort. If you want to rid the world of unintelligent people then maybe a better
education system would be better.

[Tarka the Duck]

I find the idea abhorrent, but wanted to throw something in...

A close friend of mind works for a UK charity that supports young carers (children who find themselves in the position of caring for relatives, who through illness - mental or physical - and substance abuse, need their help). The location where she is based has a high incidence of crime and social need.

She doesn't have a support network of her own, so I have become her 'debriefing officer', as what she sees every day is heartbreaking.

Out of her open cases, she is currently offering support to 4 teenagers, each of whose mothers have moderate to severe learning difficulties.
I won't elaborate, but the lives of all these teenagers are very, very difficult.
They are the sole carers of their mothers. Two of them have recently attempted suicide.
There is insufficient help out there for both the adults and their children: family support networks are non-existent.

It's sobering.

[fox.mulder]

Actually i think the concept is a good idea and i think it should be extended to the majority of the all the ****wits that live in my country. It seems that only the less intelligent tend to breed more less intelligent people. This will solve alot of world problems.

I hope you choke on those words. What gives you the right to say who dies and who lives?

Humanalien you are yet another example of the delusion that is prevalent. Where did i say anywhere about choosing people dying or living? Show me......

I'll apologize for now because i took the meaning of your post the wrong way.

The meaning i got out of that post was that if you had your way, you would
get rid of the stupid people to make way for the smarter ones.

People aren't born to be stupid, unless they have a brain malfunction of some
sort. If you want to rid the world of unintelligent people then maybe a better
education system would be better.

Humanalien i do appreciate your apology as it shows you are not slave to ego. I know most (if not all) of my posts tend to be confrontational so it is easy to see me as some angry half glass person. i dont think better education is the answer to the problem as (1) "They" run all the education departments in the world (2) Educated people tend to more uneducated.

Really i dont see any practical option other than to volunatry stop breeding. This solves the human problem and deals with "them" as they will have no more fodder to farm off. Apparently our souls/spirits can live somewhere else so it really is not genocide.

[Explodey]

Hey Fox,

Your'e a hard bastard with no kids of your own?

I was of the same opinion until I had a couple...

We "breeders" are here for the same reason as you. L.O.V.E.

I now have a "labelled" child with amazing attributes of nonconformitism - sounds familiar...?

He has never been vaccinated - therefore is the perfect example of a child in dire need of sterilization?

F**k the un-breeders and there unloving philosophical bulls**t. Who said we are over populated - them?

They tell us to live in fear - you caught yourself a healthy dose...

Nam - f**king -aste

[humanalien]

The thing is fox.mulder, where would this stop in your perfect world.
After people stopped breeding, what would be next. Getting rid
of black people, mexicans or chinese, depending on what race you
are? This could go in any direction and be expanded on, in any
direction. It could start out as stopping people from breeding and
then maybe you don't like people of color. Maybe then, you don't
like people with missing limbs or wheel chair bound. Give anyone
just a little power and that power will be abused and misused.

I agree that the education system, especially in america, sucks
really bad. As i'm finding out right now, we let kids slide by with
barely any class time at all. The school still gives these kids passing
grades, just to get them out the door. What kids are being taught, aren't
exactly the truth either, so yes, the education system isn't the greatest
thing around but at least it's something. At least, with a basic education,
people wouldn't be blathering idiots.

I think it was a star trex show i once watched where people on a different
planet, executed anyone with a deformity of any kind. Their thinking was
that if people weren't born perfect, in every way and according to state
guidelines, they could never help make contributions to society. Later on,
in the show, the opposite was found to be true and the law to kill less than
perfect people was cancelled.

At any rate, life is a gift, in it's many forms and no one has a right to say
who can breed and who can't.

The question was already asked, so i'll ask to. Do you have any kids?

[Mulder]

Thanks for the interesting thread Cjay. It's a shame some people are making disruptive & eugenicist comments here though. I think moderators need to start banning people who disrupt the forum after giving them some warnings.

[MacStar]

Unfortunately MACSTAR if you have 2 year old daughter then you are a breeder and part of the problem. I know this sounds offensive to you but i dont intend it to be. There are too many people on this planet already. When there are thousands of children already dying in the world each year then adding another is in my books very careless. If someone would like to raise children then maybe adopt some of those already alive and living poorly. That is if one really loves children and not just love the "idea" of having children.

BOOM!! nice start for a new member :welcome:

fox.mulder,I didn't join to have arguements over belief systems as they are just that.
If you think that The Elite's plan for Global Control is O.K.,then "Eugenics" will assure their victory over your part in the Big Picture.Unfortunately I see you as part of the problem believing the hype that the world is over-populated and that this is causing misery and imbalance....balance is proportional my friend ;)
I also gather that you don't really grasp the mechanisms of Power attained from Pre-pubescent suffering as proposed in this Bill?
As close as you can get to open mass bloodbath for the Vampires and you will accept this?
WOW :shocked:
Anyone with half a brain can see that Governments,Schools,Police and all the way up the puppet-chain are being given their orders to weaken the resistance.
These orders come from the richest Groups and People on this Planet.
If the Rothschild's were to share their wealth LOL,there would be enough to house,feed and maintain every single person here and their off-spring...and more.
You do live in Aus,where we have vast land masses that are unpopulated and can be given the attention these places need and it's no stretch to think it can't be inhabitable.
Also consider that people die every day and in my case during my lifetime and within my direct Family,more have passed than have been replaced.Each with somewhat of a legacy of information(energy)to be passed on.
Without this Legacy,especially from my late Father, I would not be on this path, I can assure you.I would almost certainly be a Sheeple.

Some points FYI.
I am adopted.
My Child was born against all odds as my Partner has conditions that 5 "Specialists",some of the highest in Australia,said that she could NEVER EVER conceive because of.
We accepted this as part of our path together.I was also on Prescription medication that severely impaired my Libido to albeit ZILCH and my Partner was also prescribed "The Pill" to help with her medical issues,yet the stars aligned one night,we partook of a mixture of WPG and the Sacred Mushroom for spiritual and healing purposes.Love was amped to 11 as we melded together lying on the floor hugging each other.This was a feeling of closeness one does not feel within the Earthbound State.
This was the night of conception without doubt as my Libido went back to Zilch afterwards,so a no-brainer to work out when She was conceived.
My belief system is based around a mutiverse where the Physical,Non-Physical and all in between are interconnected as energy...finite energy sytems,not limitless.All of which are dependent upon each other.
Thus to reduce our race here to slaves or premature death as proposed will tip the scales in Favour of the Dark Cabal.
One must first face the Duality within before one can even get a grasp on the Duality that exists within our Race.
This is my opinion and the facts presented are true....maybe a little less confrontation might help you see that you yourself are not immune to your ego's beliefs.
By this statement "Humanalien i do appreciate your apology as it shows you are not slave to ego." To me anyway,it is apparrent that your ego is well intact and you are still somewhat "enslaved" as you put it.


Humanalien i do appreciate your apology as it shows you are not slave to ego. I know most (if not all) of my posts tend to be confrontational so it is easy to see me as some angry half glass person. i dont think better education is the answer to the problem as (1) "They" run all the education departments in the world (2) Educated people tend to more uneducated.

Really i dont see any practical option other than to volunatry stop breeding. This solves the human problem and deals with "them" as they will have no more fodder to farm off. Apparently our souls/spirits can live somewhere else so it really is not genocide.

We won't be sending our Daughter to be Institutionalised,in fact she is way ahead of any kid I know at her age.
She will learn how things work and learn how to learn,not be taught and to always question...well she does that now LOL

Oh they will have plenty to feed off as they hold our DNA Genomes ;)

Get rid of the Rat's and then build another race to run things their way is the plan.

F@ck that!

I trust we will get along fine fox.mulder ;)

[fox.mulder]

So far i have been told or implied

(1) "I hope you choke on those words" (although an apology was given)

(2) "F**k the un-breeders and there unloving philosophical bulls**t. Who said we are over populated - them?

They tell us to live in fear - you caught yourself a healthy dose...

Nam - f**king -aste "

(3)"It's a shame some people are making disruptive & eugenicist comments here though. I think moderators need to start banning people who disrupt the forum after giving them some warnings. "

(4) "If you think that The Elite's plan for Global Control is O.K.,then "Eugenics" will assure their victory over your part in the Big Picture.Unfortunately I see you as part of the problem believing the hype that the world is over-populated and that this is causing misery and imbalance....balance is proportional my friend
I also gather that you don't really grasp the mechanisms of Power attained from Pre-pubescent suffering as proposed in this Bill?
As close as you can get to open mass bloodbath for the Vampires and you will accept this?
WOW"


WOW indeed ... and i have been made out as the ogre here.

If any of you cannot handle anyone elses different opinions without getting personal then maybe you should go back and reassess yourself.

I have made no personal attacks on anyone here. I merely came up with a suggestion of how to solve the human problem. I didnt say it was ideal but it would work. Nowhere did i say that certain groups were to be culled or any eugenics to be undertaken. That was all made up by the reader.

The world is overpopulated and the evidence is the thousands if not millions of people particularly children that are dying/suffering each year. Despite all the theorys of how to deal with this there is no solution that is going to work in practice. The people who are in charge are too powerful. The only way to beat it is to reduce the population by reducing the breeding rate. Then there is no one to be used for fodder. This great "change" that is coming is just wishful thinking.

That is my opinion ... disagree if you will but dont get personal.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Cities are overpopulated, no more no less, plenty of living and breathing space outside of those.

Food, fuel and resources are just an issue of correct management and fair distribution.

Come to the light side, we have nookie.

[Leon]

I think you don't understand what is happening in Australia...

Australia like some other countries are at the forefront of NWO developments.

This is also a reason to fear when Aussies say Quote! "if you don't like it leave"

I have friends there within the system, politiking... you don't want to know all the plans and things going on down under....

Your Government is so huge that people are so blinded by what is really going on...
I know what you mean with F***wits though...
the country is huge and mostly void of people... I am sure you can figure this out.

Why is the single mum syndrome being encouraged so much in Aust???

[jackovesk]

People, have you noticed? The system, with whatever law they intend to pass, has done exactly that what it was intended to do. It created more division, hate and anger among you. Instead of fighting the system, you are fighting each other. That is the reason why it is almost impossible to win this game. The system (governements) will always win in every situation.

Yes yes yes you are right Cilka it is impossible to win this game. However..............maybe our little bald friend Gandhi had the answer.......non complience.....he is one little bald smart f***ker!

So people stop ****ing breeding........keep IT in ur pants................

Dont get me wrong my comment upstairs were not a troll....im serious... you are never gonna win this game with active action......if you think so then you are deluded.

You just cant stop obeying rules or not pay ur mortgage, you just practically cant do this. BUT....you can stop breeding..........dont play the game any more.

If any of you have visited the non physical realm....you will know that life on earth as a human pales into insignificance........The human brain is just a sponge for the next belief you can cling too to sooth the ego, fear and to nurture any hope. When you breed you just bring along the next human who is just gonna be the next ****wit that is going to get caught up in the illusion. STOP BREEDING.

And for those who have?

This is a wholistic battle and while we can inhabit many realms mate,this is the one we have the highest affinity for.
There is a reason for this and it will be revealed in time.
There is a difference between non-compliance and giving up.I have been to other realms that are fantastic and feel more like home than here but for the moment this is where we are at this crucial point,it is my belief that we must do our part.

My 2 year old Daughter knows no different and loves this place,for her I will defend against Evil in it's many guises for Her safe charter onto the next stage....remember "they" are nothing without our FEAR ;)

Cheers,no flaming intended.

Unfortunately MACSTAR if you have 2 year old daughter then you are a breeder and part of the problem. I know this sounds offensive to you but i dont intend it to be. There are too many people on this planet already. When there are thousands of children already dying in the world each year then adding another is in my books very careless. If someone would like to raise children then maybe adopt some of those already alive and living poorly. That is if one really loves children and not just love the "idea" of having children.

If I were you fox.mulder, I would leave new member MacStar alone...

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/avatars/actor027.jpg

Judging by his Avatar he has friends in places you need not mess with, remember PinHead never forgets...:nono:

In all seriousness, do you have children..? Or if you do or not, do you think the rest of society has a right to dictate whether or not YOU are allowed to procreate..?

Just wondering..?

Rgs,

Jack

[MacStar]

You opened The Box..... :wizard:

Thanks jackovest for asking the very same question I wanted to know.

I and others here would take it that you are not a Parent by your posts thus far.

So if you think the other-side has more to offer and the World needs some culling,then if this Bill were aimed at your race,religion or age bracket,would you be first in line?

If not then what is your Duty here on Earth?

There is a permanent way to leave this realm matey ;)

Not that I would like to see that happen nor am suggesting you do.Just that it's different when you are immune to proposals like this.

[BMJ]

Hi Macstar,
I'm glad you joined Avalon and at the right time, coincidence? LOL.

Boris

[MacStar]

Thanks Boris,nice to meet :)

What is coincidence?

;)

Very happy to be aboard after all these years of pondering.

Cheers

[jackovesk]

You opened The Box..... :wizard:

Thanks jackovest for asking the very same question I wanted to know.

I and others here would take it that you are not a Parent by your posts thus far.

So if you think the other-side has more to offer and the World needs some culling,then if this Bill were aimed at your race,religion or age bracket,would you be first in line?

If not then what is your Duty here on Earth?

There is a permanent way to leave this realm matey ;)

Not that I would like to see that happen nor am suggesting you do.Just that it's different when you are immune to proposals like this.

To be honest MacStar, I really don't understand your post :noidea:

You do know this question was put to fox.mulder not you, don't you...?


In all seriousness, do you have children..? Or if you do or not, do you think the rest of society has a right to dictate whether or not YOU are allowed to procreate..?

Just wondering..?

For the record (No-One) has the right to tell anyone whether or not they can have children...:nono:

The world is not over populated and never will be :nono: Mother Earth/God have kept this planet in balance and always will...!

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, as I'm trying my best to stay out of trouble...:yes4:

PS - I mean no malice to you either fox.mulder, I believe in everyone's right to (Freewill) without exemption...

PSS - Basically I'm growing tired of all this meaningless banter, it really has no bearing on anyone or anything.

[Magnus]

Are all children of today or even of tomorrow grateful to their parents for the 'nice gift' of being born into this world they in most cases involuntarily inherit?

Where does free will fit into this system of procreation? Free ego on the other hand fits just fine.

I for one are as sure as i can be that i didn't choose this incarnation by free will.

[fox.mulder]

OK in point form ,

(1) Hello MacStar welcome to the forum. I'm sure you are big enough to handle radical debates without getting upset and calling in your friends.

(2) @Jackovest and all others who feel i was suggesting eugenics. I am not. I was suggesting that ONE solution to the current human problem is to stop breeding. Therefore the elite eventually will have no one to control. Yes its not ideal but (1) It is achievable and cannot be manipulated with government controls. (2) It can do nothing but eventually work. It's not like i was saying to kill everone, humanity eventually dies out.


(3) I'm not convinced the people in control actually want to reduce population. For them a high population means more farming. So when somthing like the "georgia stones" or even this article that started this thread is put out there, well the first thing people think is "oh the PTB want to kill everyone so lets breed even more now to thwart their evil intentions". The PTB get their way they get more people to farm. The PROBLEM REACTION SOLUTION has worked again.

(4) If anyone has a working solution to rectify our human problem then put it on the table.

(5) Check out this site. http://www.vhemt.org/ I really relate to alot of this.

[Flash]

Fox.mulder and others who may think that sterilisation without knowledgeable consent is ok:

1. In the fifties, psychiatrists in mental hospitals in North America were the only one giving the ok for brain surgeries and experimentations. The horrors that went on in psychiatric hospitals is countless.

Tens of thousands of peoiple were lobotomized without their consent, including a very renown French Canadian singer who had her life destroyed when she went in depression and was hospitalised late to be lobotomised, you know why, because her married boyfriend would not quit his wife and she went in depression.

Depression, good reason to lobotomize, sterilise, etc, and including my uncle who was lobotomised without his consent or his familiy consent during a depression eppisode because he was in a seminary, with priest, and was rape. Do not trust psychiatrists to be sane ever (tell me what you do for a living, I will tell you what your problem is. Guess for psychiatrists..)

2. How are we going to determine who goes under the scalpel and how doesn't. It starts with "stupids unintelligent retards" then goes to political leftists, then goes to gays, then goes to schizophrenics, then goes.... the list is endless. It all depends on your biaises and those of your culture, generation or your own PTB. As far as I am concerned, the PTBs psychopaths of this world would be the first under the scalpel, much before the "retards"

3. I personnally know children (2) who were born from low IQ parents - enough to be considered retards - who are now in University. Retardation is not always genetic and/or transmittable.

4. I decided I would make my own sarcastic list of retard and of people we should have gotten rid of when in childhood, or that we should have sterilised, or whos parents should have been sterilised,

Here we go:

Great beings that would not have been here to serve our planet if we were to have eugenics working full spin, or euthanatize those that are « not perfect »

• Michael Gorbachev with his red patch on his forehead (ugly): the precursor without whom policies the communism regime would not have stopped and Berlin wall would not have fallen
• Winston Churchill, who could not learn at school (probably dyslexic and ADD) and whose father sent him in military school in the hope that the militaries would put something in his stupid (thinking of the father, not me) son’s head
• Van Goth, who became kind of schizophrenic – should have been killed then -and was missing an ear
• Einstein who was not speaking by age 5 and deemed retarded throughout his elementary school years
• Jesus Christ who was surely considered a weirdo for many of his time, surely from the established religious hierarchy of the time (he was killed too late, should have been at birth, Pilates was right)
• Nelson Mandela should have been killed, being a rotten terrorist of his time, contesting the established order, those genes, no...... (this is a sarcasm, I do not think this at all on the contrary)
• Beethoven should have been killed when he became deaf (even if he composed his greatest pieces afterward)
• This physicist in England in a wheelchair talking with a voice simulator, should never have lived, too crippled and a burden to society, even if he is a nobel price and has many discoveries in physics, no, his name: Stephen Hawking (This famous scientist is considered as the greatest scientist of the twentieth century after Einstein. Haw king’s big bang theory and black hole theory has turned the attention of the world. He is the professor of Mathematics of the University of Cambridge
• Tolouse Lautrec, who wants a dwarf to live, even if one of the best painters?
• Franklin D. Roosevelt should have been killed after becoming paralysed, no need for crippled walking around and demanding help
• Hellen Keller, my god, blind, deaf and mute, who needs that.
• Leonardo Da Vinci, more gay than this and you die, who needs gays around?
• Joan of Arc, hearing voices at a young age, should have been killed for sure.
• Theresa de Avila with her states of spiritual crisis, weird.
• I forgot Mother Teresa, she was getting too old, we should have euthanasised her right in her fifties, before she did all the fuss about worthless dying Indians in the streets of Calcutta.

[ThePythonicCow]

Thanks for the interesting thread Cjay. It's a shame some people are making disruptive & eugenicist comments here though. I think moderators need to start banning people who disrupt the forum after giving them some warnings.

A certain member who has been prominent on this thread has already received warnings, had posts deleted, and been sent on two "vacations", first for a one week, then for a one month. It is clear that member still doesn't get it.

Said member has "left the building."

By the way MacStar - welcome - glad to have you aboard.

[Cjay]

Thank you to all the positive, loving, caring humans who contributed to this thread. I had to restrain myself for a few days.

Grandmother's wisdom: If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything.

[Cilka]

Do you people realize that it is not just about the human body having a physical experience on planet Earth? Our experience here is all about our soul journey having a physical experience on this planet, and we all choose that journey on a different level, and we definitely do not make that choice in 3D to be born. No matter how much we want to bang our heads against the wall for hating the life here on Earth, like you Fox do, we still made that choice to come here. It is not a picnic here for most people, but we also have to respect our journey just like we have to respect the journey of all the souls, no matter who they are, who chose to exist here right now, or existed before and will exist in the future. Exterminating humans or making them sterile just because there is overpopulation makes you the same like those who used the direct free energy weapon to take down the WTC buildings; to be that selfish for power and control is of course the journey that some souls choose but I don't want to be part of it. And if you, Fox, choose not to bring to this 3D world any souls then that is your business, you don't have the right to tell other human souls to do the same. THat would be like starting a new religion that dictates to its followers that the only way you can stop suffering of souls on this planet is to stop giving life to these souls in the first place.

Every child has a soul and it is not stupid just because it is a baby being born into this world. It has a soul that has no age, and is wise and very well aware what choices it is making. It is the physical body that puts limitations on this soul, but deep down on a different level it is wiser than anyone can imagine.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

OK in point form ,

(1) Hello MacStar welcome to the forum. I'm sure you are big enough to handle radical debates without getting upset and calling in your friends.

(2) @Jackovest and all others who feel i was suggesting eugenics. I am not. I was suggesting that ONE solution to the current human problem is to stop breeding. Therefore the elite eventually will have no one to control. Yes its not ideal but (1) It is achievable and cannot be manipulated with government controls. (2) It can do nothing but eventually work. It's not like i was saying to kill everone, humanity eventually dies out.


(3) I'm not convinced the people in control actually want to reduce population. For them a high population means more farming. So when somthing like the "georgia stones" or even this article that started this thread is put out there, well the first thing people think is "oh the PTB want to kill everyone so lets breed even more now to thwart their evil intentions". The PTB get their way they get more people to farm. The PROBLEM REACTION SOLUTION has worked again.

(4) If anyone has a working solution to rectify our human problem then put it on the table.

(5) Check out this site. http://www.vhemt.org/ I really relate to alot of this.

I understood you were asked to escape the Elvis way, but just to make a point for other readers.

Your 1 to 3 statements are personal opinions and pure speculation.

1. I dont know MacStar, neither do you, everything you assume from that point on is again pure speculation and you were filling in the blanks in your mind about his mindset without checking out if youre ideas were true and factual.

2. Stopping with procreation, will NOT win us ANYTHING, its excactly what they want to achieve by artificail means, so to the "breeders" among us,
dont put more people onto this earth as you are personally able to take care off is a better variation on this imo and completely logical. Whether someone had this in mind allready is upto them theirselfes and NOBODY has the right to interfear with this.

( this is actually the hard part in this, i am a social worker and see things go grotueskly wrong every single day, but in no way shape or form it is easy or even desirable to make large life impacting choices for an other human being and if it were upto me, i am very happy i have a team of co workers, psychologists and psychiatrists to help us make descisions regarding this subject and even the above mentioned proffesionals are just human beings, just as smart or stupid, shortsighted or whatever you will call it like the rest of us, getting a degree is something a monkey could do if he could read type and have a decent memory, just repeat the main stream knowledge a dont step out of line, you will be a social succes story, just like training someone with autism one step at a time a new skill until it is worn in in his brain structure, repetition, its about behaviour, a million pro and cons can be named here but ultimately it is about behaviour).

3. I am not convinced the light will turn on when i flicp the switch because i dint understand electricity, nevertheless it works, i am sure there are plenty of other examples everyone can find in his/hers own lives for whis the same things are true.

No matter why the Georgia stones are put up, it is a statement nevertheless which can not be ignored, its carved out in rock because this way the message will last( for what and how long might be a good question) and no matter how you look at this it is a strong message, if you believe this or agree with whts on the stones is a whole other subject.

You are thinking for other people when you say they will just breed some more just for the hell of it, think about thuis one, would you if you were in your right mind make some kids if you know they will have a ****ty painfull manipulated future just to piss someone you have never even met off, i dont think so, if thats what you think, you have made the right choice and should not have kids, it would just be another f@cked up one which i would have to deal with on a daily basis and sometimes an easy day is really nice.

4. The solutions are allready all around us dude, check out how to farm properly, vertically, urban. The alternatives for energy are allready here, even the infrastructure is here, we just need to adapt it for a different source of energy. Space on earth, there is plenty of it.

My slightly expanded two cents, without my usual bull**** ****ty jokes.

I have a zillion more things to say about this but dont expect me to get technical, i am not that kind of person, what i do am is human with half a brain and it has been working just fine to me, i see bull**** for what it is. And dont be so goddamn serious about taking yourself serious, its a cheap dead end road.

Pardon.

PS i also do fun things, like cooking beefy and vegetarian in a squatters cultural centre for bum hippies, punkers, washed up rastas and teach elderly chinese folks to dance salsa wich is absolutely hysterical fun, just to balance things out. Picture that one with canes and stollers flying around the room on corny Barry Manilow tunes and a bit of Juan Luis Guerra.. try a pedir su mano and keep up)

So, if you want change shut up or put up and dont just be smart on forums.

HOWG

Done

[MacStar]

You opened The Box..... :wizard:

Thanks jackovest for asking the very same question I wanted to know.

I and others here would take it that you are not a Parent by your posts thus far.

So if you think the other-side has more to offer and the World needs some culling,then if this Bill were aimed at your race,religion or age bracket,would you be first in line?

If not then what is your Duty here on Earth?

There is a permanent way to leave this realm matey ;)

Not that I would like to see that happen nor am suggesting you do.Just that it's different when you are immune to proposals like this.

To be honest MacStar, I really don't understand your post :noidea:

You do know this question was put to fox.mulder not you, don't you...?


In all seriousness, do you have children..? Or if you do or not, do you think the rest of society has a right to dictate whether or not YOU are allowed to procreate..?

Just wondering..?

For the record (No-One) has the right to tell anyone whether or not they can have children...:nono:

The world is not over populated and never will be :nono: Mother Earth/God have kept this planet in balance and always will...!

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, as I'm trying my best to stay out of trouble...:yes4:

PS - I mean no malice to you either fox.mulder, I believe in everyone's right to (Freewill) without exemption...

PSS - Basically I'm growing tired of all this meaningless banter, it really has no bearing on anyone or anything.

Hi jackovest,sorry if I wasn't clear mate.

I was aware that the question wasn't aimed at myself and my wording may have led you to believe I was asking you if you have Kids??

If this is the case then no it was towards the late fox.mulder... I was writing out an objection at the same time and had my little girl wanting to play,feeling pretty unwell and the sky was full of trails.
It get's pretty bad here and we are very sensitive to it,don't even need to look now but I will post some pics at some point too....today was a shocker,noughts and crosses in the air.

Everything else under that was also toward fox.mulder. i.e.

"I and others here would take it that you are not a Parent by your posts thus far.

So if you think the other-side has more to offer and the World needs some culling,then if this Bill were aimed at your race,religion or age bracket,would you be first in line?

If not then what is your Duty here on Earth?

There is a permanent way to leave this realm matey

Not that I would like to see that happen nor am suggesting you do.Just that it's different when you are immune to proposals like this. "

Wow what an entrance hey!!

Time was ticking towards deadline,I had just received notification of acceptance here,was on another forum doing the same and found this thread straight up.

I'm battling the control of Big Pharma atm and have been for quite a few years now and was/am having symptoms of withdrawal as I fight for my life back dropping doses gradually.

Might as well get that one out in the open now ;)
Xanax prescribed by a Psychiatrist using nothing but the DSM back in 2003.
Rosicrucian to boot.

I'm nearing the end of this battle and it's getting harder as is the nature of the beast,but I'll get there.

So all in all a very hard day that day and without the Watchdog's heads up,I would never have known as they only dug this up 5 days before the closing for submissions.

I'm a transparent person when it comes to my situation and one who cares about Mankind and the Big Picture.

Hopefully I have landed in the right place after all these years as my openess has seen me ridiculed and my stance against Big Brother and Control in it's many faces left me ostricised on other unrelated Forums.

My lifelong close friend ozhare has been keeping me updated over the years from Here,Camelot,Montague Keen etc. and vice versa via my own research and experiences.

I take no pride in seeing fox.mulder leave, but then now I see he has been warned before and for obviously good reason.

Here's the link to the response:
http://www.health.wa.gov.au/mhareview/reports/report/government-response.pdf
I think pages 32 onward are the important bits from what I've been told.

Been another long day so I haven't looked at it properly yet and need to sleep now.

Thanks again for all the support on this important issue...it won't be the last attempt they make.

Cheers and Thanks for the Thanks everyone.

Can't wait to get to really know this place and finally hook up with like minded peeps,it's a far cry from what I'm used to :der:

Peace