What to believe

[humanalien]

In my younger years, before the internet existed, i was introduced
to the bible by going to church. I listened to what was said but as a
kid, i let a lot of it go in one ear and out the other. As a teenager, i
began reading some of the bible and the story itself is rather interesting,
so i read more and more until i actually read all of the O.T. After reading
it, i thought to myself that God is really a cruel God. He had men go
fight in wars, in his name, he made job think that he had to make a
sacrifice to God, using his son, he took everything job had away from
him and so on.

After reading the N.T, the message was a lot kinder and loving than
what God was saying and i began believing more in that message. With
God, humans had no way to redeem themselves but with jesus, we did.
Although i was never a full blown christian, i believed in the core values
that the N.T taught us and i kept those word with me throughout most
of my younger adult life. I was happy about myself and all was well with
the world.

After learning about God, Jesus and the bible, i started hearing about ufo's
and such and my interest was peaked. After i got my second computer and
an internet connection, i began my search into ufo's/aliens. Before this
forum, i used to go to a different one and it was there where i first started
hearing things about aliens being the ones that created humans on earth.

Not only humans but according to the annanuki, they created not only all
human life but all plants and animals as well. Then we had yet, other aliens
that came along and messed with our dna even more and created a better
human. The number of aliens that supposedly messed with our dna ranges
anywhere from 24 to 56 different alien races. The numbers seem to change
all the time.

We have people like Bob Dean, Clifford Stone and John Kettler and don't
forget our own Dreamsindigital, telling us that aliens are good and they are
here to help us but we also have aliens out there that don't like us very well
and are experimenting on us.

Then we have David Wilcock who tells us that we are all gods, we live in a
matrix and blah blah blah. That man makes no sense at all.

The point being though, what if everything that we are being told is all
crap. None of it is true. Of course, aliens exist. I think most of us know
this to be true and some of us on a more personal level know this to be
true also. The thing is though, what if all these aliens are really nothing
more than satans followers? We know from the bible that God cast satan
and his army out of heaven and down to earth. These entities, i'm sure,
were/are very intelligent and they created spacecraft to wiz them of to
different planets and what not and maybe some even stayed here on earth.

I can only assume that these entities, in their original form is of a spiritual
nature and maybe they can even change their form to look more human
or more reptilian or whatever.

In todays world, people are more easily fooled into believing almost anything
and i see that, just from watching the news every day. It practically takes
no effort at all to make a human believe something. The smarter a person is,
the more easily they are fooled.

So, along comes johnny alien and tells the world that they are good aliens
but in reality, they are really part of satans army. They are here to harden
mans heart against God. They want to win your souls. The bible says to be
on the lookout for false prophets and soothsayers but it doesn't say that they
would only come from earth.

Look at all the turmoil that comes from believing in aliens. They supposedly
contact a person and tell them to spread the message that they will land on
earth at a certain date and it never happens. They tell you, through a
messenger that they will do something that will prove they are here and
nothing happens. Some say they are here to help us, yet others say they
are not here to help us. Some say the greys are good and some say the
greys are bad.

If there were any truth in any of this stuff, would'nt the whole story be more
consistent? As it is now, we have messengers only giving us very small
pieces of the puzzle, yet none of the piece fit together. We have to read in
between the lines to make sense of the story.

As it stands right now, i'm leaning back toward the bible. The stories are
more consistent than what we are getting from alien messengers right now.
I know all religions are wrong and they all should be stopped right now.
At least though, the king james bible instills a lot of good core values that
all people should live by. Look at what is happening in the world because
we cast God off to the side and replaced him with aliens. The world is going
to hell, real fast and it can only end in our total destruction if we don't get
back to God like we should.

I know many of you have your own truths to live by and i'm not here to
change your minds. I just had to rant about this because at the moment,
this is what i believe. I think we all are being taken for a ride on a spaceship
in our minds but that ride won't last forever.

[songsfortheotherkind]

Look at what is happening in the world because
we cast God off to the side and replaced him with aliens. The world is going
to hell, real fast and it can only end in our total destruction if we don't get
back to God like we should.

I know many of you have your own truths to live by and i'm not here to
change your minds. I just had to rant about this because at the moment,
this is what i believe. I think we all are being taken for a ride on a spaceship
in our minds but that ride won't last forever.

I have highlighted the text that indicates where you contradict one statement with another. Get back to God like *we* 'should'? Are you actually talking about yourself here? By all means, if you feel that you 'should' be following this path, then follow it- but spreading your reality across everyone else? Mmm.

See, I *don't* think I 'should' be doing anything of the sort. I grew up with those who waved the KJ around while they were doing horrible, disgusting things, so I'm not a fan. I'm not a fan of what's written in it either- I have one child who identifies as gay and from memory, that doesn't go well in that book; women and children get a bum deal in it too, as do concubines, slaves and anything *not* the dominant religion in the book. Um. I have a different experience and memory of the history of the 'god' in that bible and it's not 'divine' in origin (if one is using 'divine' to mean 'from the higher vibrations of the Multiverse'). *But* that is my experience and I'm fully aware that we all have different paths.

Personally, I'm choosing a path where religion *isn't*. Spirituality, absolutely and yes, but not religion. Religion is not kind to anything that it decrees 'not us', and as a Being that has identified as 'not human' since I could first speak, that would mean me. And my partner/s. Oh, and my children. Mmm, and my friends- and well, pretty much *anyone* that I enjoy hanging out with. In any of the realms.

Find what calls to you, what speaks to your inner Self in its highest expression and do that, is what I practice for myself and strive to live; if what calls to you is the religion of the KJ bible then by all means follow it and I wish you well. However, please don't start another Crusade- the last ones sucked, any new ones aren't going to suck any less. This time though, I will arm myself and fight like a fury and I will kill with any means available at my disposal before I let another christian tie me or any member of my family to a stake and set us on fire again.

Just so we're clear.

[humanalien]

songsfortheotherkind:

Perhaps you should state whether or not you still believe in a
single creator God before i speak about your post much. Some how,
that slipped right past me.

No, I am not promoting God and religion to anyone here. I thought
i said that in my first post. People have their own truths or paths to
follow and at this stage in the game of life, it's to late to be trying to
get more recruits now.

I only wanted to share what i thought what was my truth and path to
follow because it's the only thing that makes sense.

Trying to keep up with all these different alien stories is getting to be
very difficult to follow because nothing matches up. Police use story
matching to find out if someone is telling the truth or not and when the
story doesn't match, the story is a lie. This is how i'm feeling about all
the different alien stories. Nothing matches up, so all of them are a lie.

I haven't got the strength nor the will to try to change anyones mind
about what i feel they should be believing in. If you want to believe in
the easter bunny and santa clause or what-ever, then that's up to each
individual to decide. Since i think the a lot of our bibles have a mix of
truths and lies, i can't believe in any religion and i wouldn't ask anyone
to believe in one either. So much of Gods word has been left out and
changed that it's no longer Gods truths.

As it stands right now, the only thing that i would encourage other to
be is an STO (Service To Others). It doesn't hurt anyone to be nice to
others and help them when they need help.....

[Tarka the Duck]

Hello HA

Funny, I think you are feeling a bit like me...or I am feeling a bit like you....;)
I was genuinely shocked this morning when I browsed briefly through the threads before heading off to work. I only dipped into a couple that caught my eye, and was amazed at the outrageous statements that a few people were making! They weren't specifically regarding UFOs, but I don't think the concerns you are raising in the OP exclude other kinds of info.

The only conclusions I could come to were that either

it is all pure fiction written as fact (could we call that lying?)
they are delusional
I am so limited in my experience of the world that everything I previously thought is wrong and what I am reading is true...scary but possible :eek:

[humanalien]

No. It doesn't just have to be about aliens/ufo's. I could even include
Ben Fulford, the White Hats/Dragons, Bill Woods and others in this to.

They all come out with lots to say about everything, yet nothing is
provable and this is a big problem for me. How do you know if something
is happening if it can't be verified.

Right now, the only person still talking on the internet, that i believe is
telling the truth is alex jones. At least with him, he has the actual government
documents and web sites to back up everything he says.

I don't exactly know why, but for some reason, i still believe that Duncan
O'finioian is telling the truth. I know it sounds crazy but i do. He offers no
proof of what he says but it's like i can tell for sure that he speaks the truth.
This is my truth and i don't expect anyone else to believe in what i do.

[CdnSirian]

I was going to post http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56K1NraOcZ4 then decided not to-- but O.K. I will.

How has anyone decided?

I am okay so far with Duncan O'finioan. No doubts. Sorry if this is cryptic in any way.

[jjjones]

discern and to each his own. Namaste, love and peace universally :)

[gypsybutterflykiss]

The more information I read, especially about aliens the closer my heart becomes to the "true God". I do believe that there is a single creator and sure, maybe we were spliced together in a Petri dish, but those "creators" did by no means create our souls. They did not give us our "God Spark". I know a lot of you out there don't believe there is actually a "God" and, well.. Good, whatever works for you is just fine and dandy to me.

Oh, yes that is what I was getting at. My first "love" used to answer questions from my heart with this,"Believe what you want to believe. .. Whatever makes you happy".

I tell you, then I thought it was a pretty bunk answer to my questions, but over time- like 15 years and plenty of life lessons, I've genuinely come to cherish these words, and now carry them closely in my heart.

And that, my friends is my two cents :).

Be happy, be merry and laugh.. Enjoy the ride and watch the plants grow.

[HORIZONS]

Out of the darkness
and into the light
This is the journey
we all must fight.
If our time here
is used in this wise,
we can be sure,
to find the Grand Prize.
-RM
Peace to you~

[nearing]

HA, my answer to your thread is my own thread:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?42265-Like-a-well-worn-glove-Disillusionment

I guess we are feeling similarly these days.

[Solstyse]

You have some good points, and you pose some good questions.
You might be onto something with the whole, alien/demon/angel/fourth density/future self. Whatever.
A lot of the problem with the alien, 4 density,thing is when you really start to trace the roots, back too the Sitchin's, Velikovsky, and Däniken's, it just doesn't hold water.
But there is something going on. The government really is evil,, and run by the banking system. Illuminati, The Cabal (use for dramatic effect) There really is **** going on that we don't know about. The world is a mess and at war with itself using American made weapons, as we just kind of point a finger and drop a bomb. So yeah, something is going on but....
If you hold up Bob Dean, Clifford Stone or John Kettler, to the same scrutiny as we do the older holy type text, it would be almost laughable.
Some of it's true, the rest, eh.

[crested-duck]

In the end it's all psy-ops in one form or another for the sole purpose of sts. Your current reality all depends on which end of the sh*t stick you're holding on to !

[humanalien]

HA, my answer to your thread is my own thread:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?42265-Like-a-well-worn-glove-Disillusionment

I guess we are feeling similarly these days.

Thanks nearing. I guess we do think the same way.

[foreverfan]

I have studied almost all of the Christian religions trying to find God and...
I would like to share with you a beautiful though from the Jehovah Witness. Don't hang up on me yet... To date the Jehovah Witness are the fastest growing religion in the world for a good reason.

Please be advised that I issues with organized religion and don't go to church.

They taught me one valuable lesson you may not have learned....
Imagine a baby dies during child birth. Most Religions say it's God's will. Wrong. Where does it say that God kills babies? This is a perversion by people who should know better (Clergy). What the Bible actually says is Satan is allowed to kill the baby. Satan (Satan means "The Opposer") was allowed to rule the Earth after the Fall of Mankind in Eden. Do you really question this? Satan rules now. Got that? While Satan is allowed to rule the world now, his days are numbered. Soon God’s people will inherit the Earth. The others will simply die.

This is why God allowed Satan to test Job.
Job never questioned God. Job knew God would never do bad things to him. This is the moral of the story. Job questioned why he was being tested. Didn't you learn that after reading it? In any case, when life throws you a curve ball which seems unfair, IT IS SATAN who is trying to destroy your love for God. All too often people of weak faith blame God for the problem. Most religions don't teach this. They simply say that God works in mysterious ways. There is no mystery here.

God doesn't work in mysterious ways. Satan does.
Many of the people who make money off religion make the people who exploit channeling pale in comparison. God isn't the kind that you have to wind up on Sunday. In any case, the Sabbath isn't Sunday, it's Saturday and Jesus’ birthday isn't December 25th either. As far as organized religion goes, there’s enough huey to go around.

To not believe in God cheapens life.
I believe in God, and I feel God lives in each one of us. I cannot escape that fact. I find God everywhere. I find it him mostly in Love. You may be surprised to know that his name was taken out the Bible and replaced with God or Lord so his name wouldn’t be taken in vain. I bet a lot of you are glad for that. His name is Jehovah and it is a powerful name to invoke. It works. Try is sometime.


The Project Avalon Prayer:

The Bible said that in the end times there would be many deceivers of the truth
and many would be led away from the Kingdom of God. In other words, this forum could land you straight in Hell or what the Bible really teaches permanent death.
I try not to think about that though.

Dear God,
Please forgive me for I have sinned. I’ve watched YouTube Project Camelot videos with Bill and Kerry and read their forum all in a search for truth. Please forgive me in Jesus name. Amen



Please be advised that the New Testament was written in around 70AD.
It was the inspired word of God or in other words... Channeled. :eek:

[thunder24]

its a soap opera....take it all with a grain of salt....many tons of ore, yield ounces of gold human aleen....don't wear urself out wishing and hopeing...id say if u quit looking, the next puzzle peace u need will fall in ur lap. just saying..

[WhiteFeather]

How do you know there aren't aliens whom look like us walking and breathing on this planet as we speak?

[gypsybutterflykiss]

How do you know there aren't aliens whom look like us walking and breathing on this planet as we speak?

I'm quite certain there is :)

[songsfortheotherkind]

How do you know there aren't aliens whom look like us walking and breathing on this planet as we speak?

I'm quite certain there is :)

*waves, grinning*

[songsfortheotherkind]

I have studied almost all of the Christian religions trying to find God and...
I would like to share with you a beautiful though from the Jehovah Witness.

As an ex-Witness, I'll pass on that. Ugly, genocidal blood gods don't appeal to me.


To not believe in God cheapens life. I believe in God, and I feel God lives in each one of us. I cannot escape that fact. I find God everywhere. I find it him mostly in Love. You may be surprised to know that his name was taken out the Bible and replaced with God or Lord so his name wouldn’t be taken in vain. I bet a lot of you are glad for that. His name is Jehovah and it is a powerful name to invoke. It works. Try is sometime.

"I cannot escape that fact". If you are referring to the 'fact' that you believe in a god and that you feel this god lives inside others, then this I understand, because for you this is indeed your reality and thus a fact *for you*; if, however, you are referring to this as being a 'fact' for everyone else, then I rebut your claim- no 'god', and especially not thatparticular group of Beings masquerading as a god, has anything at all to do with or in my life. Nope.

I rebut your assertion that my not believing in a god cheapens any life, mine or others; given how I have observed some religionists to be, I'd be in a position to assert that the *belief* in a god frequently appears to cheapen life, at least in regards to all those who don't believe in that religion. Such statements regarding belief when made in the 'this is how it is for *me*' language aren't offensive because they're Sui Generis and simply an expression of how the individual is doing things; if I am aware that an individual is a practitioner of a one god perspective I generally respect that and most often choose to not interact with that Being, unless they are the rare Being that can have their perspective without needing to point it anywhere else; if, however, an individual starts to point their one god/bible perspective at me I'm going to rebut it. If they persist, I'm going to let my fangs grow, my ears get very very pointy, let my nails turn into claws and, just to put a real emphasis on things, let leathery wings unfurl from my back, and I'm going to not be human about what I say or do next.

I fully support any Being's choice of path. I will never dispute your right to follow and believe whatever you wish to because I hold to Sui Generis for all Beings, so long as that path doesn't involve harming another Being in any way. However, as soon as a Being starts trying to cover *my* energetic signal with their belief system then I am going to rebut their assumption. Every time. Unsurprisingly, the bible is pretty big on the harming of other Beings, by using the justification 'it's god's law'.

You do not have my permission, ever, to call that god into my space, by your blanket assumption that it's not going to be profoundly offensive to do so. It's really, really rude/ignorant in its lowest forms and it is a massive energetic invasion in others. It's one of the tools that are currently being pointed at the population, assumption, along with construment, and it's doing really ugly things on the planet. This is 'my' space because it's an open thread in a forum in which all Kinds have been invited; if you wished to start a thread entitled 'singing the praises of the One God' you can be absolutely sure that I would have every respect for such a thread and would never, ever enter it or talk about it. Why? Because I do not experience that religion, that book, that god or its followers in a positive way. I experience no religion in a positive way. I'm an ex-Witness,and in earlier childhood, have had my share of born again as well: I know that book *really* well, it's still ugly and this isn't even getting into how ugly that book or its history is to me as an Otherkind. I'm not human. Things haven't gone well for me in the past previous to this life, at the hands of the writers, and later, followers of that book.

If you want to post things like this, please do it in a thread where the subject is clearly defined; I try to do this with topics that I think some mind find uncomfortable or not to their taste, because I understand many have no-go zones and I respect that. The bible, its gods, its teachings and all religion in general are no-go zones for me; I don't allow any individual to 'pray' for me because I find the energy signal dissonant and disturbing, it's just not my thing. I have a right to decline any energy I don't wish to have introduced into my space.

I am generally curious about something, however- what is a follower of the christian one god doing here anyway? Isn't that fraternising with witches, tellers of fortunes, harlots, dogs, false prophets who seduce followers away from the 'one true god'? I'm genuinely puzzled- aren't some of us here by our actions and words the children of this 'satan' you mentioned, those who reject the god of the bible and its teachings, according to the teachings in the book itself?

And finally- the JWs are one of the fastest growing religions on earth for a simple reason- in my 18 year association with the religion I observed that they are trained to be excellent spiritual predators.

[songsfortheotherkind]

songsfortheotherkind:

Perhaps you should state whether or not you still believe in a
single creator God before i speak about your post much. Some how,
that slipped right past me.

I am in loving relationship with a few Creators; so I do not experience or believe in a single creator, nor do I experience 'gods', as none of the Creators I am in communication/relationship with have any interest whatsoever in being seen or treated as a 'god'; they experience such aims and claims to be low level, vibrationally, and personally so do I.

[foreverfan]

I have studied almost all of the Christian religions trying to find God and...
I would like to share with you a beautiful though from the Jehovah Witness.

As an ex-Witness, I'll pass on that. Ugly, genocidal blood gods don't appeal to me.


To not believe in God cheapens life. I believe in God, and I feel God lives in each one of us. I cannot escape that fact. I find God everywhere. I find it him mostly in Love. You may be surprised to know that his name was taken out the Bible and replaced with God or Lord so his name wouldn’t be taken in vain. I bet a lot of you are glad for that. His name is Jehovah and it is a powerful name to invoke. It works. Try is sometime.

"I cannot escape that fact". If you are referring to the 'fact' that you believe in a god and that you feel this god lives inside others, then this I understand, because for you this is indeed your reality and thus a fact *for you*; if, however, you are referring to this as being a 'fact' for everyone else, then I rebut your claim- no 'god', and especially not thatparticular group of Beings masquerading as a god, has anything at all to do with or in my life. Nope.

I rebut your assertion that my not believing in a god cheapens any life, mine or others; given how I have observed some religionists to be, I'd be in a position to assert that the *belief* in a god frequently appears to cheapen life, at least in regards to all those who don't believe in that religion. Such statements regarding belief when made in the 'this is how it is for *me*' language aren't offensive because they're Sui Generis and simply an expression of how the individual is doing things; if I am aware that an individual is a practitioner of a one god perspective I generally respect that and most often choose to not interact with that Being, unless they are the rare Being that can have their perspective without needing to point it anywhere else; if, however, an individual starts to point their one god/bible perspective at me I'm going to rebut it. If they persist, I'm going to let my fangs grow, my ears get very very pointy, let my nails turn into claws and, just to put a real emphasis on things, let leathery wings unfurl from my back, and I'm going to not be human about what I say or do next.

I fully support any Being's choice of path. I will never dispute your right to follow and believe whatever you wish to because I hold to Sui Generis for all Beings, so long as that path doesn't involve harming another Being in any way. However, as soon as a Being starts trying to cover *my* energetic signal with their belief system then I am going to rebut their assumption. Every time. Unsurprisingly, the bible is pretty big on the harming of other Beings, by using the justification 'it's god's law'.

You do not have my permission, ever, to call that god into my space, by your blanket assumption that it's not going to be profoundly offensive to do so. It's really, really rude/ignorant in its lowest forms and it is a massive energetic invasion in others. It's one of the tools that are currently being pointed at the population, assumption, along with construment, and it's doing really ugly things on the planet. This is 'my' space because it's an open thread in a forum in which all Kinds have been invited; if you wished to start a thread entitled 'singing the praises of the One God' you can be absolutely sure that I would have every respect for such a thread and would never, ever enter it or talk about it. Why? Because I do not experience that religion, that book, that god or its followers in a positive way. I experience no religion in a positive way. I'm an ex-Witness,and in earlier childhood, have had my share of born again as well: I know that book *really* well, it's still ugly and this isn't even getting into how ugly that book or its history is to me as an Otherkind. I'm not human. Things haven't gone well for me in the past previous to this life, at the hands of the writers, and later, followers of that book.

If you want to post things like this, please do it in a thread where the subject is clearly defined; I try to do this with topics that I think some mind find uncomfortable or not to their taste, because I understand many have no-go zones and I respect that. The bible, its gods, its teachings and all religion in general are no-go zones for me; I don't allow any individual to 'pray' for me because I find the energy signal dissonant and disturbing, it's just not my thing. I have a right to decline any energy I don't wish to have introduced into my space.

I am generally curious about something, however- what is a follower of the christian one god doing here anyway? Isn't that fraternising with witches, tellers of fortunes, harlots, dogs, false prophets who seduce followers away from the 'one true god'? I'm genuinely puzzled- aren't some of us here by our actions and words the children of this 'satan' you mentioned, those who reject the god of the bible and its teachings, according to the teachings in the book itself?

And finally- the JWs are one of the fastest growing religions on earth for a simple reason- in my 18 year association with the religion I observed that they are trained to be excellent spiritual predators.

You completely misunderstood my point. First off, I'm not a Jehovah Witness. I don't go to church. I have been a studier of religion in the past during my younger days. I studied Religion hoping to find the truth. I'm not sure if I've found the truth on this board. There is no proof. Just more theories. Some of my post was a JOKE.

The reason I say that not believing in a God cheapens life... is that... many believe that after you die, that's it. They actually think they evolved here. They fail to realize how precious life is. They live in the moment. Love is the lesson to learn on Earth. They haven't learned it. Believe in a God gives them hope and some direction.

Didn't I say I despise organized religion and don't go to church? Organized religion can be perverted into a great evil but it can also be a great blessing to many. I just pointed out one story from the bible and referenced on religion of which I'm not a part of. If that offended you in any way, I can't help you.

[Rozzy]

Take it all with a granary of salt, truths, partial truths and out right lies are a part of it all. The gospel truth is not even in the gospel anymore, Bacon and King Jimmy were both Freemasons and give us their version of God's word in the KJV.
What a mess we have on our hands now, the church system is like Bush and Mr. O, the Catholics and the Protestants claiming to be different and oppose each other all the while they are both lying, cheating, and corrupt, operating through the doctrines of fear the politicians and the church have a lot in common.

[Debra]

Interesting thread and perfectly good questions you raise Humanalien. And I don´t believe that you should be quarantined for your position, your thoughts and or your understanding about god, creator or whatever. Nobody should. The value of engagement in this thread tumbles too quickly into debate. Maybe it is the word religion. But debate in my belief only serves to denigrate. It is lightyears away from spiritual engagement, it is exactly what religion and academia engage in - dogma and defense.

Some great voices on here. You too songsfortheotherkind, you have an amazing voice. However, torpedoing people because their perceived interpretation does not align with your own? This is a public forum, we are a delicious brew of creative outputs, who are generally not understood by a huge slice of the world population. And in our quest for clarity, we need to be who we are, warts and all, in asking the big questions. People are on here, putting it out there - because they want to know more. Some seem to want to teach, and some just feel the need to meet like minds and feel affirmation.

Perhaps we should be asking why someone starts a post on this forum, then we can be more helpful to each other.

[songsfortheotherkind]

Some great voices on here. You too songsfortheotherkind, you have an amazing voice. However, torpedoing people because their perceived interpretation does not align with your own?

To me there is a difference between torpedoing a person and torpedoing an assertion that, if left unrebutted, could be construed as including me. The way my mind works is this- all those in prewar Germany who stood by and said/did nothing to rebut the assertions of racial superiority that Hitler was making tacitly supported those assertions. All those who stand by and do/say nothing to rebut the presumptions of those in power are, in practice and in law, tacitly agreeing to those presumptions. It's partly why/how the majority are herded/ruled, because by their silence they *agree* to be: protesting once the hammer is falling is no good, one needed to be rebutting the assumptions well before hand. Silence in law is agreement. Silence is trust arrangements is agreement. Silence in spiritual situations is agreement. There is a difference between stating one's position (rebuttal) and arguing; they are vastly different and carry vastly different implications, both practically and energetically.

I was rebutting a presumption, strongly. There was no intention of rebutting the individual concerned, simply the presumption. I believe I made my position very clear- absolute respect for the individual to believe and embrace whatever they wish, and that I would rebut, vigorously if necessary, any presumption that these beliefs and parameters can be extended to include, even in the vaguest of ways, me. Some individuals may not care about those presumptions and that is their prerogative; this does not, as a practice, go well in certain elements of the dominant paradigm and again, that is their choice. For *my Self*, I have a different practice.

The main intention of my posting was to highlight the difference between writing from a *subjective* perspective (I feel, this is how it works for me, etc) and the subtle and inexorable drift into encompassing language (our, everyone, all) that then starts to bring 'out there' into 'in here'. It's insidious, it's frequently unconscious and it carries with it a mind virus signal even if the host is utterly unaware of it. I am *not* unaware of that signal and I rebut it every time; without conscious rebuttal the concepts neatly insert themselves into the consciousness (or more often unconsciousness) of the host and lay dormant until the next fertile opportunity comes for seeding.

In the Matrix, there is a lesson about agents and their ability to enter and use unconscious, unwitting and oblivious hosts; just because the individual does not realise they are hosting something does not make them any less infectious. I strive to be as gentle with the host as I can be while being as decisive with the virus as necessary. I have reread my post carefully and while it is true that to some it may appear that I am being overly harsh (and this often happens when individuals do not personally grokk how the mind virus spreads, or to individuals that, for one reason or another, don't see it or feel it is insignificant) *and* I repeatedly affirmed the right of the poster to believe and practice whatever it is that they believe and practice it's just not going to go well if said individual starts to *globalise* that position.

Upon rereading I see that I could have been more exact with this sentence- "If you want to post things like this, please do it in a thread where the subject is clearly defined; " and changed it to "If you want to post things like this where you are not going to have interchanges such as the one we are having now or experience responses like mine, perhaps posting in such and such a way- ". That would have been more clear, certainly. I was not attempting to dictate the right of the poster to do whatever they wished, including posting threads however they wished; what I was addressing was the globalisation and the implications, energetic and otherwise, of such an approach.

I get that to some this looks like torpedoing, or rudeness, or 'unloving', or harsh, or any host of other labels that individuals at different times have interpreted my behaviours/responses as. I'm ok with that, because the alternative (constantly contorting my Self in order to keep everyone 'happy' (which often means 'comfortable' within a toxic/programmed parameter of comfort) and assuring 'everyone' that I'm playing 'nice' by all the social patting and stroking that is required) does really harmful things to my energy and functioning and I refuse to bow to the mind virus at all these days.


This is a public forum, we are a delicious brew of creative outputs, who are generally not understood by a huge slice of the world population. And in our quest for clarity, we need to be who we are, warts and all, in asking the big questions. People are on here, putting it out there - because they want to know more. Some seem to want to teach, and some just feel the need to meet like minds and feel affirmation.

This is exactly why I'm unrelenting in my view of subjective versus global- cultivating a TRULY subjective language, the ability to express one's Self *without* engaging in or drifting into globalisation is one of the foundational skills in being able to engage and connect - with open heart and mind- with the infinitely rich and ever evolving pantheon of sentient Beings moving through the Multiverse. It is counterproductive to seek such connections and to be unwilling to tackle the *learned behaviour of globalisation* at the same time. Globalisation, blanket statements that are, be it consciously or unconsciously, subtle (or sometimes really glaringly obvious and in one's face) viral thought programs that lead inexorably towards conditions of thought and Being that support behaviours of domination, diminishment of others, control and authoritarian social regulation programs, superiority and their bastard children war, brutality, genocide, environmental destruction, slavery and many other so-called 'social ills'.

They are not 'social' ills, they are manifestations of a distorted world view within first an individual and then a collective of individuals. These things do not happen in a vacuum, they exist because the foundations of the belief systems are *deeply rooted within the psyche of the individual* who is usually unconscious of it.

You can't be a 'little bit' infected. It's like leaven, no matter how small an amount is there it's going to affect the whole lump. One of my raison d'être at this point in time/space is the shining of light upon the machinations and hidden functionings of the mind virus. I 'see' it, I have spent decades mapping it (both internally and externally), I've had to deal with physical manifestations of it, so now when I see it lurking I drag it into the light. Light (being seen) and high vibration (no host to latch onto) are two of the most powerful methods of diminishing, limiting and ultimately immunising one's Self to the virus- without a conscious focus on the part of the host, *or* a natural immunity (Asperger's is a form of natural immunity to the 'social programming' but has its own side effects, just as a raging fever can burn out a bug but can also kills or damage the host; elements need to be balanced) then an individual is either an infectious host or a silent carrier. This has been my repeated experience: there is no *absolutely* 'benign' manifestation of thinking/behaviour that is seeded with mind virus spores.


Perhaps we should be asking why someone starts a post on this forum, then we can be more helpful to each other.

If I may suggest replacing 'should' with 'could'- and this could be useful, yes, depending on context and writer. :)

[songsfortheotherkind]

You completely misunderstood my point.

In the context of my post, I do not experience that I misunderstood your post at all. I made a clear distinction of the matters that I was highlighting, quoted them specifically, bolded the relevant sections and expanded upon my perspective of these, explaining context and thinking.


First off, I'm not a Jehovah Witness.

I did not say you were. I expressed my experience in regards to both that religion and the specific use of the name. There is a distinction between these two things.


I don't go to church.

Again, did not say that you did, nor do I view religion and church attendance as mutually inclusive.


I have been a studier of religion in the past during my younger days. I studied Religion hoping to find the truth. I'm not sure if I've found the truth on this board. There is no proof. Just more theories.

You make some very definitive statements in your post that are not indicative of a *theory*, they are globalised statements, such as this: To not believe in God cheapens life. If your intent was to explore this in a subjective and non-global way then more care with language needs to be employed, so that your intent and purpose in posting is made clear. I've made my position regarding this more clear in my reply to Zebra's post, so I won't go into my perspectives here- suffice to say that what you say you intended to express in posting and what was actually expressed appear to be two very different things given the globalisation and language/concepts used.

Part of the thing about evolution is that *everything* gets to evolve, including the way we use language. :)


Some of my post was a JOKE.

Borden, in a thread somewhere else, had some interesting things to say about those who use socially accepted means to do things that, at the heart of them, are essentially dodgy. Have you ever experienced poor or even malevolent behaviour from another that, when you call them on it, is dismissed with 'what's wrong with you, can't you take a joke?'- there have been a lot of shoddy, low vibration, aggressive, passive-aggressive and downright brutal actions perpetrated against others with that justification in mind. In a forum such as this, joking can be awesome, fun and tension relieving when the communication is clear- done unthinkingly or with only one's subjective frame of mind in the space it can be a source of much confusion and even create wounds and chasms that can be difficult to repair. If I'm joking, I either make extremely sure that the context and intent are obvious *or* I'm doing it with individuals that I have learned or consider to be of similar sense of humour (generally after watching their writing and interactive style with others). I don't make jokes about potentially sensitive subjects (such as rape, child molestation, circumcision, genocide and a whole swathe of other things that personally I never find amusing) and I am careful with individuals that do. Having been on the receiving end of some behaviour that left permanent injuries and scars under the banner of 'what's wrong, it was just a joke', I'm careful with 'jokes'. Perhaps prefacing the 'joking' sections of a post is useful, as is considering one's actual intentions and purpose in making such 'jokes'.


The reason I say that not believing in a God cheapens life... is that... many believe that after you die, that's it. They actually think they evolved here. They fail to realize how precious life is. They live in the moment.

I fail to see how believing in no afterlife, believing in the scientific view of evolution, living in the moment AND having a deep- or even passionate- appreciation for life are mutually exclusive; in fact, such a belief frequently inspires awe and reverence for life itself and is experienced by the individual as a spiritual resonance, which at the core, it is. Absolutely there are individuals for whom nothing is important but a belief or disbelief in a god is not an absolute indicator as to which side of the scale- reverence or irreverence for life- an individual falls on. Historically many individuals who have professed profound belief in and adherence to the god of the bible have displayed a profound contempt for life because such life belonged to those 'not christian', and thus horrendous torture and crime against the living Being of another were perfectly permissable. I don't agree with your assertion here.


Love is the lesson to learn on Earth.

Subjective assumption made global. I don't experience this; certainly, love is A lesson that can be learned here- for a subjective definition of 'love'- but it's not THE lesson. Important distinction.


They haven't learned it.

Again, subjective assumption made global, and a pretty major one at that. Are you really claiming to be the authority on what another individual has or has not learned? I don't know if you're aware of it, this is judging another and in a pretty huge way, because there are boatloads of other assumptions and extrapolations that go along with such judgement.


Believe in a God gives them hope and some direction.

for *some* individuals this may be absolutely true. For others, professing such beliefs has been the vehicle by which they have been able to 'legitimately' persecute, subdue and eliminate other beliefs, individuals and points of view. Sometimes the directions such beliefs take an individual in are nothing that any other Being with a love for the Sui Generis of all Beings would want to have anything to do with.


Didn't I say I despise organized religion and don't go to church?

I didn't say you did. However, you *did* say that the name of the god of the bible was powerful and that individuals should try using it. Again, going to church or supporting an organised religion *and* supporting the agenda of such things are not mutually inclusive- you don't have to go to church or support an organised religion to be a proselyte of the thinking and energy that underpins both. Saying 'didn't I say I despise-' and then expounding on the expressing of beliefs contained within churches/organised religions is disingenuous, just as not being a formal member of the KKK, or attending their meetings, but being prepared to expound and support elements of their views and behaviours, is disingenuous.


Organized religion can be perverted into a great evil

History has repeatedly demonstrated the evidence that the foundations for it being so are fundamental to the belief systems that create it; any hierarchical system contains the spores of domination, control and subjection. There's no way to have a hierarchical system that does not contain these spores, even when the best efforts of the many go into intentionally preventing such things from arising- it only takes *one individual* to become infected and the whole brutal debacle begins all over again. For my Self, being the kind of Being that I am, I find this informative regarding both the 'god' and the message.


but it can also be a great blessing to many.

many found the Nazi regime and its activities, such as the youth groups and social events, to be a blessing after the psychological battering they collectively took from WW1. Such individuals gained real, measurable benefit from their associations with the groups and activities. Does this mean that the fundamental error of the philosophy must be overlooked because it was 'a great blessing to many'? Many more found it anything but a blessing, just as many hundreds of thousands of native and non-religious/non-christian individuals have found christianity to be anything but a blessing.

Again I will state- whatever an individual finds *personally* relevant and meaningful to them is part of their Sui Generis evolutionary path and is perfect and right for them, irrespective of how another Being might view that path. As soon as an individual begins to think that their path 'should' be taken up by *others*, or that their perspective is the 'right' one, damaging behaviours and belief systems are generally the result. It's the miasm of the mind virus. Plant virus, get toxins, no matter how many brightly colored bows you decorate it in.


I just pointed out one story from the bible and referenced on religion of which I'm not a part of.

As my replies have indicated, you did more than that. Unconsciously, perhaps, and yet my points still stand.


If that offended you in any way, I can't help you.

I did not ask for, nor do I need, your help- I'm not actually sure what that even means to you, the idea of 'helping' me, or even the idea that I even require help. I wasn't offended. If I was the kind of Being to indulge in being offended, I'd tell you 'I'm offended by blahblahblah'. To me there is a distinction between being offended and rebutting presumptions; I'm aware that many can't tell the difference *and* that doesn't stop me from doing it.

[jorr lundstrom]

humanalien, after reading your OP I wonder, do you have to
believe anything?


Jorr

[jagman]

I have always suspected, That the whole ufo and alien phenomenon is probably demonic or angelic. There are quite a few authors and researchers
who have wrote books on this theory. Nick Redfern has a lot good work published on this.

[humanalien]

humanalien, after reading your OP I wonder, do you have to
believe anything?


Jorr

I was just thinking that same question today. No, you don't have to believe in anything.
I was wondering maybe if people believe in something, just to make feel more comfortable
about their lifestyle or something. Maybe some people have the need to believe in something
because it is a human failing of some sort. I really don't have the answer, since their are a lot
of people that believe in nothing at all.

I think for me, i am terribly confused and don't know what to believe any more. We have all these
different ufo/alien stories, where they say they will do this or that and nothing ever happens. We
have a bible telling us God is perfect, yet he had to send his son to earth to fix his screw ups and
lay down different laws. Bible stories are so messed up and i know this is because of man purposely
messing with the bible, so now we don't have a true record about God or anything. It's just that
out of the two (Aliens/God), God or the bible makes more sense to me.

I'm just tired of the lies and i'd like to hear some truth now....

[Solstyse]

humanalien, after reading your OP I wonder, do you have to
believe anything?


Jorr




I was just thinking that same question today. No, you don't have to believe in anything.
I was wondering maybe if people believe in something, just to make feel more comfortable
about their lifestyle or something. Maybe some people have the need to believe in something
because it is a human failing of some sort. I really don't have the answer, since their are a lot
of people that believe in nothing at all.

I think for me, i am terribly confused and don't know what to believe any more. We have all these
different ufo/alien stories, where they say they will do this or that and nothing ever happens. We
have a bible telling us God is perfect, yet he had to send his son to earth to fix his screw ups and
lay down different laws. Bible stories are so messed up and i know this is because of man purposely
messing with the bible, so now we don't have a true record about God or anything. It's just that
out of the two (Aliens/God), God or the bible makes more sense to me.

I'm just tired of the lies and i'd like to hear some truth now....

Truth, if you run into a wall it is going to hurt.
Truth, fire burns.
Truth, wheel good.

Truth is something you have to find on your own.
And I'll be right there with you, maybe reading a different book, but we are in the same room.

[humanalien]

I have always suspected, That the whole ufo and alien phenomenon is probably demonic or angelic. There are quite a few authors and researchers
who have wrote books on this theory. Nick Redfern has a lot good work published on this.

This is another thing i've been thinking of. What are aliens? Are they truly different
lifeforms coming from other planets/dimensions or are they really satans demonic
angels. If scriptures are correct and there was a war in heaven and satan and his army
were cast down to earth, what would stop them from traveling through space to live
on other planets. All they would have to do is come to earth and say that they come
from another planet and people would believe that.

[Mike]

songsfortheotherkind:

Perhaps you should state whether or not you still believe in a
single creator God before i speak about your post much. Some how,
that slipped right past me.

I am in loving relationship with a few Creators; so I do not experience or believe in a single creator, nor do I experience 'gods', as none of the Creators I am in communication/relationship with have any interest whatsoever in being seen or treated as a 'god'; they experience such aims and claims to be low level, vibrationally, and personally so do I.


i like this post...

it's been scientifically proven that the atom can be chopped n chopped n chopped, but no matter how many times it's diminished you will never reach a singularity.

if there is no level to the smallness, then there is no level to the bigness either.

even God has a God. and that God has a God...and so on.

[Ellisa]

Why does an alien have to be god? or Satan? Aliens, if they make it here, will not be gods no matter how much we may want them to be.

An alien would be just that. An alien being. A being from somewhere else in the universe. Someone whose job is to contact peoples on other planets, someone who explores, like we humans intend to one day.

Aliens do not require us to validate their existence. If they turn up they will be as corporeal as I am. God and Satan are human constructs, which require our belief in order to exist. They are not real. Many think they are and that is their personal decision. Religions are the codified information of such beliefs, and they provide the rules of their particular faiths which nowadays many seem to reject. But these rules do not make their various divinities real.

[Debra]

Hello songsforanotherkind!
Firstly, thank you for a very considered reply. You think profoundly and have enormous passion for what you believe - and from what I can discern in your reply, and forgive me for condensing what I think is the essence of what you are communicating, I believe you are highlighting another way of languaging amongst and between different cultures that holds itself conscious, responsible and accountable in the exchange of words, the choice of words and how they are said (form having as much weight, if not more than the content it carries).
And, to avoid slipping into global speak and mindvirus, which potentially has the insidious capability of propping up and feeding a paradigm of shared cultural ideas that flourishes at the cost of the exclusion, invalidation and disempowerment of others and becomes a dominant hegemonic force.
Yup, could not agree more. Language is powerful.
Your language is powerful. So is mine. Be careful what you do with it. You bet.
But personally, oh man, I don´t feel empowered when I am censoring myself at every second, and I do like to be caring - most of the time - about what tumbles out of my mouth, or onto a page. I like to think I practice some decent levels of self awareness. It can be an overwhelming task to self-impose and structure according to a construction of language that I have not participated in creating. Strewth, I look around me every day and see how high levels of self correctness, imposed by a socialist system over 40 plus years, has put a lid on the spirit of folk in Sweden. Not everyone of course. There are a few who stand out and speak up - they are considered weird and generally shunned - while others are generally well .. rigid and some I would say, fearful. I think it is because they are not free to flow and this I think needs to be considered as well. In the context of what you write.
The practice, the theory and understanding of human communication has been an intrinsic part of my working activities for many years. Helping/facilitating people to become more effective and conscious communicators, that is a big job. Every case is unique, adding to this a complex field of multiple intelligences, all of which require careful attention. I am all for raising the benchmark on how we communicate, because therein lies I believe the real foundations for a more enlightened humanity.
I would like to know in what other ways you are exploring to assist this evolution songsofanotherkind. How it is done, is what I am interested in, to ensure that freedom is still honored.
Personally, I have come to planet earth at this time, because of the rich diversity of cultures that we all have such easy access to in this time period. Plus the proliferation of modern cultural hybrids. These never cease to amaze me with their evolution of language - and even devolution of language you could say as well. But what I enjoy and celebrate is character. And heart, when it feels empowered to emerge and sing out. Every character signature makes that such a beautiful thing to behold.
So yeah, I enjoy the mixed spice of humanity. For me, it would be a boring existence if we all spoke and wrote in the same way, is what I am really saying and I trust that you also hold this to be important as well but I am sure you have a different way of saying it :).

Thank you for the opportunity to think more deeply on this.
Zebra
p.s.

Perhaps we should be asking why someone starts a post on this forum, then we can be more helpful to each other.

If I may suggest replacing 'should' with 'could'- and this could be useful, yes, depending on context and writer. :)[/QUOTE][/I]

Could. Yes. Much better. Implies helpfulness. ;)




Some great voices on here. You too songsfortheotherkind, you have an amazing voice. However, torpedoing people because their perceived interpretation does not align with your own?

To me there is a difference between torpedoing a person and torpedoing an assertion that, if left unrebutted, could be construed as including me. The way my mind works is this- all those in prewar Germany who stood by and said/did nothing to rebut the assertions of racial superiority that Hitler was making tacitly supported those assertions. All those who stand by and do/say nothing to rebut the presumptions of those in power are, in practice and in law, tacitly agreeing to those presumptions. It's partly why/how the majority are herded/ruled, because by their silence they *agree* to be: protesting once the hammer is falling is no good, one needed to be rebutting the assumptions well before hand. Silence in law is agreement. Silence is trust arrangements is agreement. Silence in spiritual situations is agreement. There is a difference between stating one's position (rebuttal) and arguing; they are vastly different and carry vastly different implications, both practically and energetically.

I was rebutting a presumption, strongly. There was no intention of rebutting the individual concerned, simply the presumption. I believe I made my position very clear- absolute respect for the individual to believe and embrace whatever they wish, and that I would rebut, vigorously if necessary, any presumption that these beliefs and parameters can be extended to include, even in the vaguest of ways, me. Some individuals may not care about those presumptions and that is their prerogative; this does not, as a practice, go well in certain elements of the dominant paradigm and again, that is their choice. For *my Self*, I have a different practice.

The main intention of my posting was to highlight the difference between writing from a *subjective* perspective (I feel, this is how it works for me, etc) and the subtle and inexorable drift into encompassing language (our, everyone, all) that then starts to bring 'out there' into 'in here'. It's insidious, it's frequently unconscious and it carries with it a mind virus signal even if the host is utterly unaware of it. I am *not* unaware of that signal and I rebut it every time; without conscious rebuttal the concepts neatly insert themselves into the consciousness (or more often unconsciousness) of the host and lay dormant until the next fertile opportunity comes for seeding.

In the Matrix, there is a lesson about agents and their ability to enter and use unconscious, unwitting and oblivious hosts; just because the individual does not realise they are hosting something does not make them any less infectious. I strive to be as gentle with the host as I can be while being as decisive with the virus as necessary. I have reread my post carefully and while it is true that to some it may appear that I am being overly harsh (and this often happens when individuals do not personally grokk how the mind virus spreads, or to individuals that, for one reason or another, don't see it or feel it is insignificant) *and* I repeatedly affirmed the right of the poster to believe and practice whatever it is that they believe and practice it's just not going to go well if said individual starts to *globalise* that position.

Upon rereading I see that I could have been more exact with this sentence- "If you want to post things like this, please do it in a thread where the subject is clearly defined; " and changed it to "If you want to post things like this where you are not going to have interchanges such as the one we are having now or experience responses like mine, perhaps posting in such and such a way- ". That would have been more clear, certainly. I was not attempting to dictate the right of the poster to do whatever they wished, including posting threads however they wished; what I was addressing was the globalisation and the implications, energetic and otherwise, of such an approach.

I get that to some this looks like torpedoing, or rudeness, or 'unloving', or harsh, or any host of other labels that individuals at different times have interpreted my behaviours/responses as. I'm ok with that, because the alternative (constantly contorting my Self in order to keep everyone 'happy' (which often means 'comfortable' within a toxic/programmed parameter of comfort) and assuring 'everyone' that I'm playing 'nice' by all the social patting and stroking that is required) does really harmful things to my energy and functioning and I refuse to bow to the mind virus at all these days.


This is a public forum, we are a delicious brew of creative outputs, who are generally not understood by a huge slice of the world population. And in our quest for clarity, we need to be who we are, warts and all, in asking the big questions. People are on here, putting it out there - because they want to know more. Some seem to want to teach, and some just feel the need to meet like minds and feel affirmation.

This is exactly why I'm unrelenting in my view of subjective versus global- cultivating a TRULY subjective language, the ability to express one's Self *without* engaging in or drifting into globalisation is one of the foundational skills in being able to engage and connect - with open heart and mind- with the infinitely rich and ever evolving pantheon of sentient Beings moving through the Multiverse. It is counterproductive to seek such connections and to be unwilling to tackle the *learned behaviour of globalisation* at the same time. Globalisation, blanket statements that are, be it consciously or unconsciously, subtle (or sometimes really glaringly obvious and in one's face) viral thought programs that lead inexorably towards conditions of thought and Being that support behaviours of domination, diminishment of others, control and authoritarian social regulation programs, superiority and their bastard children war, brutality, genocide, environmental destruction, slavery and many other so-called 'social ills'.

They are not 'social' ills, they are manifestations of a distorted world view within first an individual and then a collective of individuals. These things do not happen in a vacuum, they exist because the foundations of the belief systems are *deeply rooted within the psyche of the individual* who is usually unconscious of it.

You can't be a 'little bit' infected. It's like leaven, no matter how small an amount is there it's going to affect the whole lump. One of my raison d'être at this point in time/space is the shining of light upon the machinations and hidden functionings of the mind virus. I 'see' it, I have spent decades mapping it (both internally and externally), I've had to deal with physical manifestations of it, so now when I see it lurking I drag it into the light. Light (being seen) and high vibration (no host to latch onto) are two of the most powerful methods of diminishing, limiting and ultimately immunising one's Self to the virus- without a conscious focus on the part of the host, *or* a natural immunity (Asperger's is a form of natural immunity to the 'social programming' but has its own side effects, just as a raging fever can burn out a bug but can also kills or damage the host; elements need to be balanced) then an individual is either an infectious host or a silent carrier. This has been my repeated experience: there is no *absolutely* 'benign' manifestation of thinking/behaviour that is seeded with mind virus spores.


Perhaps we should be asking why someone starts a post on this forum, then we can be more helpful to each other.

If I may suggest replacing 'should' with 'could'- and this could be useful, yes, depending on context and writer. :)

[conk]

We may never find truth, but we can discern lies and organized religion will always have a mouth full. Be true to your heart, be considerate of others and keep learning. In the end, as long as we are not harming each other, it simply does not matter. The whole game is an illusion.

[gypsybutterflykiss]

Out of the darkness
and into the light
This is the journey
we all must fight.
If our time here
is used in this wise,
we can be sure,
to find the Grand Prize.
-RM
Peace to you~


Thank you for this, it is truly beautiful.

[humanalien]

Why does an alien have to be god? or Satan? Aliens, if they make it here, will not be gods no matter how much we may want them to be.

An alien would be just that. An alien being. A being from somewhere else in the universe. Someone whose job is to contact peoples on other planets, someone who explores, like we humans intend to one day.

Aliens do not require us to validate their existence. If they turn up they will be as corporeal as I am. God and Satan are human constructs, which require our belief in order to exist. They are not real. Many think they are and that is their personal decision. Religions are the codified information of such beliefs, and they provide the rules of their particular faiths which nowadays many seem to reject. But these rules do not make their various divinities real.

Aliens don't have to be gods or demons but if you have been reading
anything alien related from this site and others, chances are you will
have come up on stories stating that they are our creators. Reading
further into these stories, you will also find out that humans used to worship
these aliens as gods. Maybe not all of them but some of them. The greek
gods come into mind. The greys and the reptilians among others have
also made this claim.

Maybe even the single creator God isn't who he claims to be. The bible says:
"Let us create man in our image; after our likeness". Who or what is us
and our referring to? If God has always been around, even before the beginning
then where did the others come from all of a sudden? Was he referring to his
angels? Does God and his angels look like humans or rather we look like them?
There are to many gaps in the bible to be able to draw any intelligent answers
from.

[Titan Orion]

[B]To not believe in God cheapens life.


Its declarations like this that make me understand why Biblebashers exist.

Sorry, but that really PISSED ME OFF

[HORIZONS]

Out of the darkness
and into the light
This is the journey
we all must fight.
If our time here
is used in this wise,
we can be sure,
to find the Grand Prize.
-RM
Peace to you~


Thank you for this, it is truly beautiful.

If you want to see the rest of the poem it is posted here on and old thread of mine http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?2110-Out-Of-The-Darkness
Although it has some humor to it there is a very deep meaning behind it, if one can see past the words. ;)

[songsfortheotherkind]

Truth, if you run into a wall it is going to hurt.
Truth, fire burns.
Truth, wheel good.

*looks over at you sideways eyed*

I was thinking about offering a different perspective on these and decided *shrugs, grinning* what difference does it make?


Truth is something you have to find on your own.

This, this I resonate with a lot. Our own truth. So many to choose from... :)



And I'll be right there with you, maybe reading a different book, but we are in the same room.

A very very LARGE room, with a lot of secluded booths, secret reading nooks and doorways leading to other remote sections of the room. The Universe, Hogwarts style. :D

[foreverfan]

:cool:songfortheotherkind... you're joking right?

I read your whole post out of respect since you took a lot of time and put a lot of thought into it. Some of it was well taken and I found your prospective both enlighting and amusing. You seem to take every line and then warp the simple meaning into interesting psyco-babble. WOW. For anybody that missed it... it is a piece of work.

I had an ex-wife I divorce for the exact same reason. LOL I still don't like her. In any case, that's no reflection on you. I do appreciate the time you took to enlighten me and give me a good laugh. It would have been easier to just call me lazy for not being clearer.

That would have been closer to the truth. :cool:

FF

[Ellisa]

If aliens created life on earth they still would not be gods. They would be aliens who seeded this planet, perhaps with everything that lives here, or most likely, as is often discussed on this site, just we humans. They would not have been supernatural divinities, just extremely clever aliens! Even if we worshipped them and built rich and varied religions, with intricate laws and rituals that will endure forever and give comfort to many, they would still not be gods.

There are, as I type this, scientists somewhere all over this planet researching and trying to duplicate the recreation of the origin of life. Personally I do not doubt that one day they will be able to do just that. Will they then be gods?

[humanalien]

Back when humans were first created, supposedly by aliens, humans
would have indeed looked upon aliens as gods. If they would have
stuck around here on earth and not let us make any tech advances,
more than likely, they would still be looked upon as gods. Not that
i support this idea but giving you a possibility of what could have happened.

[Ellisa]

I understand that this could happen-- indeed it did in the South pacific where many islanders set up shrines to worship the people who arrived in ships,and, most impressive of all, in planes- and unloaded unimaginable luxuries. These were strange people unlike anyone they had seen before. They established a belief system about these events, which were called Cargo Cults, and their followers were mocked. But as you say, this may have been what happened all those years ago with aliens and our forebears. But it still does not make our visitors into gods.

Of course if you agree with me on this, you then have to ask who, what or how did the aliens start off? I don't believe a Creator made them- I believe it is possible for life to evolve within its own environment if the conditions are right, and maybe one day those beings travelled to other worlds, as maybe one day we humans will.

[RedeZra]

I think for me, i am terribly confused and don't know what to believe any more.

Scripture is true

and aliens are demons in disguise


they will come en masse in UFOs lookin like humans

but they are not


they are manifestin spirits and hybrids


the Bible says because men did not love truth God will send them a great delusion


i used to say come to the Cross but now i must say run

Christ is the Livin God

[Tony]

We are sentient beings (having a mind), so we at this present moment are not omniscient. So have to rely on some proof, inference and trust. One can only trust, if there is some proof and one understands what is inferred. So 75% has to be provable, 20% inferred and so we have to trust the other 5%. That 5% is known in our actual practice of the subject.

Take learning music. We hear music, so we know it's possible. We are told that scales and cords are the basics. We then practice to put it all together. Then the dots join up!

To find someone to trust, we need to examine them closely. Poke it, smell it, chew it, digest it....know it!

[Tony]

integrity |inˈtegritē|
noun
1 the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness : he is known to be a man of integrity.
2 the state of being whole and undivided : upholding territorial integrity and national sovereignty.
• the condition of being unified, unimpaired, or sound in construction : the structural integrity of the novel.
• internal consistency or lack of corruption in electronic data : [as adj. ] integrity checking.
ORIGIN late Middle English (sense 2) : from French intégrité or Latin integritas, from integer ‘intact’ (see integer ). Compare with entirety , integral , and integrate .

[PHARAOH]

[QUOTE=foreverfan;446093]I have studied almost all of the Christian religions trying to find God and...
I would like to share with you a beautiful though from the Jehovah Witness. Don't hang up on me yet... To date the Jehovah Witness are the fastest growing religion in the world for a good reason.

Please be advised that I issues with organized religion and don't go to church.

They taught me one valuable lesson you may not have learned....
Imagine a baby dies during child birth. Most Religions say it's God's will. Wrong. Where does it say that God kills babies? This is a perversion by people who should know better (Clergy). What the Bible actually says is Satan is allowed to kill the baby. Satan (Satan means "The Opposer") was allowed to rule the Earth after the Fall of Mankind in Eden. Do you really question this? Satan rules now. Got that? While Satan is allowed to rule the world now, his days are numbered. Soon God’s people will inherit the Earth. The others will simply die.

Sorry bro but unfortunatley GOD, God or god is a murderer of children. Read: "Exodus 12:27" amongst so many other attrocities. Either way, I have been a member for some time and I'm still dumbfounded by the constant lack of responsability we take for our lives and creation. I see constant posts of disempowerment, saving alien spiecies, relegion, pornagrafear, just wait till the 2012-13 accension... WTF!!! When will we begin and continue the dialogue about how marvelous, great and powerful we ALL are and what we are "CREATING"!

Is this where we take two steps back??? "OUT"..............

[humanalien]

People need to quit believing in the delusion that they can create,
simply by thinking of it. Who started this? David Wilcock? When was the
last time you created a fridge full of food because you lack the money
to buy food or you created money with the power of your mind to buy
food? When was the last time you created a mountain range or turned
a barren land into a life supporting eco system?

People give themselves way to much credit for believing they can create
anything. The last time i checked, humans are not Gods nor are they even
little gods. Humans are only using around 10 percent of their brain power
and yet we a able to create things? Wake up and smell the truth, please...

You are just falling for the rubbish that david wilcock and others are telling
you. When was the last time DW created anything with his mind? If you
consider lies as something that can be created by the power of your mind
then yes, i can believe that....

[jorr lundstrom]

People need to quit believing in the delusion that they can create,
simply by thinking of it. Who started this? David Wilcock? When was the
last time you created a fridge full of food because you lack the money
to buy food or you created money with the power of your mind to buy
food? When was the last time you created a mountain range or turned
a barren land into a life supporting eco system?

People give themselves way to much credit for believing they can create
anything. The last time i checked, humans are not Gods nor are they even
little gods. Humans are only using around 10 percent of their brain power
and yet we a able to create things? Wake up and smell the truth, please...

You are just falling for the rubbish that david wilcock and others are telling
you. When was the last time DW created anything with his mind? If you
consider lies as something that can be created by the power of your mind
then yes, i can believe that....


humanalien, wot you are talking about is called magical thinking.
Its very common among 4 year old kids. One could hope that
adults had put that aside, but alas. LOL


Jorr

[778 neighbour of some guy]

songsfortheotherkind:

Perhaps you should state whether or not you still believe in a
single creator God before i speak about your post much. Some how,
that slipped right past me.

I am in loving relationship with a few Creators; so I do not experience or believe in a single creator, nor do I experience 'gods', as none of the Creators I am in communication/relationship with have any interest whatsoever in being seen or treated as a 'god'; they experience such aims and claims to be low level, vibrationally, and personally so do I.


i like this post...

it's been scientifically proven that the atom can be chopped n chopped n chopped, but no matter how many times it's diminished you will never reach a singularity.

if there is no level to the smallness, then there is no level to the bigness either.

even God has a God. and that God has a God...and so on.

Yesssss, this just has to be the case, i think of this in exactly the same way, makes me wonder on what forum God has his/hers endless pro/con discussion on God and with whom. This would be a great equalizer if he would be wrestling with the same filosofical hooha as we are.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

People need to quit believing in the delusion that they can create,
simply by thinking of it. Who started this? David Wilcock? When was the
last time you created a fridge full of food because you lack the money
to buy food or you created money with the power of your mind to buy
food? When was the last time you created a mountain range or turned
a barren land into a life supporting eco system?

People give themselves way to much credit for believing they can create
anything. The last time i checked, humans are not Gods nor are they even
little gods. Humans are only using around 10 percent of their brain power
and yet we a able to create things? Wake up and smell the truth, please...

You are just falling for the rubbish that david wilcock and others are telling
you. When was the last time DW created anything with his mind? If you
consider lies as something that can be created by the power of your mind
then yes, i can believe that....

I dont agree with this at all actually but i understand what your PO is steering at.

Your above quoted post. my 2 cents for what its worth that is.

1. I create paintings, meals, new jobs, finances, relationships and what not by first having an idea, and than ACT upon this thought, dont stop at just thinking. There will be additional work involved.

2. Mountains take a lot of work( its the stacking of large boulders and rock etc thing, the ACTION following up on the thought.

3. Ecosystems can be build, with spades, buckets, water and wurms to start with but you have to DO the Shoveling, watering, collecting the wurms, planting the trees which in turm will atract some more creatures and plant species just by the wind and birds pooping some seeds around at random.

Wont go into the Wilcock part, this is a personal opinion you stated above, but i will not judge him on this, its his life and if someone takes his word for thruth so be it.

He didnt hurt me one bit, so i have no stake in the outcome whatsoever as of yet.

[Solstyse]

People need to quit believing in the delusion that they can create,
simply by thinking of it. Who started this? David Wilcock? When was the
last time you created a fridge full of food because you lack the money
to buy food or you created money with the power of your mind to buy
food? When was the last time you created a mountain range or turned
a barren land into a life supporting eco system?

People give themselves way to much credit for believing they can create
anything. The last time i checked, humans are not Gods nor are they even
little gods. Humans are only using around 10 percent of their brain power
and yet we a able to create things? Wake up and smell the truth, please...

You are just falling for the rubbish that david wilcock and others are telling
you. When was the last time DW created anything with his mind? If you
consider lies as something that can be created by the power of your mind
then yes, i can believe that....

The idea of perception altering reality, has firm roots i n quantum physics.
I far from an expert, but this is an interesting little video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfPeprQ7oGc&feature=player_detailpage#t=2s

The 10% of our brain thing is a little truth laced with a lot of myth. We may only actively use 1 in every 10 nerve cells in our brain at any moment, but the ones we are not actively using are still receiving signals, and the other 9 nerve cells will be used in the very next micro second. We use our entire 3 pounds of brain everyday, what you do with it is up too you.

As far as DW ( Darkwing Duck anyone? ) he apparently created an entire financial empire out of his mind. :)



[

[jorr lundstrom]

Creating anything with thoughts alone. LOL I say, go for it.

Watch up for headaches. LOL

Adding physical effort is concidered cheatening.


Jorr

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Creating anything with thoughts alone. LOL I say, go for it.

Watch up for headaches. LOL

Adding physical effort is concidered cheatening.



Jorr

i'm busted then ?;)

[jorr lundstrom]

Creating anything with thoughts alone. LOL I say, go for it.

Watch up for headaches. LOL

Adding physical effort is concidered cheatening.



Jorr

i'm busted then ?;)


From your post I conclude youre a man of action. You sure
will get things done. But as you say it takes more than thoughts.


ROFLOL


Jorr

[foreverfan]

You know that's the big question there. Where does Religion fit into the "New Age" dogma? Knowing what you know now, read Revelation and see if it doesn't start to make sense. It's some pretty scary stuff.[COLOR="red"][COLOR="red"]


The above video shows that nothing exists unless there is a conscience to observe it. I've seen this before. Morpheus had all the answers. I took the red pill years ago.

[humanalien]

Using the power of your mind alone is what i'm talking about
and many people here and everywhere think they have the power
to do this, although they have never done it before.

I think 665 plumber of the beast explained the best form of creating
that a human can do. Everything starts with a thought but nothing
can get started or created until you use your hands. This is where
the real creating begins. Most people create every day by thinking
of what they want for supper then go to the kitchen and create it
but i know this isn't the type of creating some people are thinking
of when they speak of it. I think they are talking about the magical
kind, where they don't have to lift a finger. :wizard:

[RedeZra]

Using the power of your mind alone is what i'm talking about
and many people here and everywhere think they have the power
to do this, although they have never done it before.



many seem to have been misled to think that they are already capable of turnin water into wine

so much so they don't even bother to try


such feats are not the workins of mind but spirit

so no amount of intelligence can make them fly or walk waters on foot

[Titan Orion]

Using the power of your mind alone is what i'm talking about
and many people here and everywhere think they have the power
to do this, although they have never done it before.


And how would you know they have never done it before?

Nobody said anything about filling your fridge up by thinking about it.

I do not believe it to be creating matter, but creating situations. Its to do with all that talk of the collective, and the idea that your thought is not merely just inside your head.

[Delight]

People need to quit believing in the delusion that they can create,
simply by thinking of it. When was the
last time you created a fridge full of food because you lack the money
to buy food or you created money with the power of your mind to buy
food? When was the last time you created a mountain range or turned
a barren land into a life supporting eco system?

People give themselves way to much credit for believing they can create
anything. The last time i checked, humans are not Gods nor are they even
little gods. Humans are only using around 10 percent of their brain power
and yet we a able to create things? Wake up and smell the truth, please....


humanalien, wot you are talking about is called magical thinking.
Its very common among 4 year old kids. One could hope that
adults had put that aside, but alas. LOL
Jorr

I have never seen a mountain created but I have seen one destroyed. One of the things notice-able is that it sure seems easier in the Kali Yuga to destroy than to create.That is kind of a joke and yet true.

I used to work as a psychiatric nurse. It was in that context that I heard the term "magical thinking" (considered immature and bad). Basically it means the belief that ones thoughts make something happen. So in immaturity, for instance: to wish someone dead would cause that to happen.

With one diagnosed group called borderline personality disorder, relationships are really an issue. It seemed uncanny at times that with a person in the hospital, there was always manipulation observed from that "patient" to try to manage people (splitting people, projecting extreme "good" and "bad", volatile swings of closeness and rejection). Because of the dynamics, there was always some drama happening. And weirdly, an expectation of abuse, with SO much abuse seen.

I remember thinking, given that magical thinking was going on, could it be actually causing life to unfold as believed? The main problem was that the blief was not "OH, I absolutely love life and life loves me", but "I hate everything and always get abuse".

I cannot doubt that our thoughts create reality but there is a lot more to the equation. And I will side with mature magical thinking. And as far as I am concerned, I did manifest a refrigerator full of food. It's just that I didn't specify it would arrive by anythig other than my auto and my arms.