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Tony
9th March 2012, 12:04
On reflection.

There are many levels of understanding of the same subject.
One asks questions, and an answer comes up.
That in turn produces another question, and so the process refines.
This is how we discover our true nature. Merely reading about it doesn't work.
If one thinks one has the answer and holds onto it, then there is no further progress.
It becomes a fixed concept, and we can get quite touchy about it...and that's a good indication...!

That begs the question, where on earth do these answers come from?
Good question! Great question!

Here's an example of the refining process: yesterday, I mentioned in writing that there are opposites in the universe.
This morning I reflected on this: hmm, are there opposites? Why and how does that work?
Hmm, there is light and there is dark. OH!
The dark exists by virtue of the light, and the light is known by virtue of the dark.
Does that work? Hmm...yes!

Everything is a unity!!!
This is how everything is so right, when everything seems so wrong!
This seems to the answer to the dissatisfaction being felt...until the next set of questions arises.

Remember...everything has to be tested and tested...

This always brings us back to understanding the unity of the two truths.
The real and the seemingly real. Essence and consciousness. Absolute truth and relative truth. Within the relative is the absolute, and within the absolute is the relative.

This is where we often talk at cross purposes, and talk in extremes.
Things are not wonderful, and things are not terrible: that takes place in our relative mistaken minds.

We need to understand the many sides of the coin.
If we take meditation and non meditation: meditation is merely the mind at rest, and this can be done sitting, walking, eating ,typing...everything.
But in actuality there is no doing.

As usual, let's take this apart (and this is not easy to convey to a virtual group).
To start off everyone is right, from their point of view. Then they ask questions, and something in the universe answers, and they proceed.
If we are talking about resting in our natural state, which is meditation, people will be at different stages. Some will be there immediately while others - like myself - are a bit slow.

So we need a system, before we can drop the system. A method is just a tool, a toy.
Generally, when we learn to meditate we are actually resting in consciousness = relative truth. It is where we start. We are doing something, resting in now.
Gradually or with help we look into this resting and find no meditation.. and no meditator.
One has gone, gone gone beyond.

But don't go beyond too soon! We have to learn to recognise the difference between relative resting and absolute resting. In this way, we learn to recognise distractions.
Negative emotions are merely the absolute essence being distracted and becoming consciousness...relative.

To be honest, as ordinary house holder we will oscillate like this until we die. The texts all say to achieve any real stability one should be in isolation.
However, much progress can be made in merely recognising the essence of the emotions. And simply looking into the one who experiences these emotions and thoughts. That is the path of non meditation.

There is even a path of sensual pleasure, but on that path, it's the non-clinging that is difficult!

Back to the unity: don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
Everything has its absolute reality, which is empty essence.
If things did not have this empty essence they would not disintegrate and the universe would get pretty clogged up!

All things come to pass, but not our absolute nature.

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Saying a thing is good or bad limits our understanding.
Saying a thing is neither good or bad limits our understanding.
These are too easy.

Making a judgement of any sort is merely to reside in mind-consciousness.
Making an effort not to judge is merely to reside in mind-consciousness.
These are too easy.

From an absolute level, there is mere noticing.
And that is our personal, unique just-being.

But we are in human bodies, and we have to relate to the world around us, and to other people.
Therefore, we pop down into consciousness – relative truth – to play our part.
The trick is not to forget our unique just-being, empty essence.
Therefore, the unity of consciousness and pure essence is of paramount importance.
With that union, loving compassion arises automatically and unconditionally.

In Sanskrit, these three – pure essence, lucidity compassionate energy - are called the three kayas. When these kayas get distracted, they turn into the three poisons - attraction, repulsion and ignorance - and that is where everything is created.

It is very easy to say that we create our own world.
Undoing our own world takes true realisation.

It is so important to take things step by step.
Feel the ground beneath you at each step.
With each step, confidence grows.

Lettherebelight
9th March 2012, 16:50
This is a great insight, Tony. Thanks for sharing.

Many ways to perceive a point, and we are all playing our own special part. If we could remember this all the time, it would be easy to always treat one another with respect and patience and tolerance.

Food for thought!

Tony
9th March 2012, 19:51
vV-CEQVBxvA

Tony
10th March 2012, 12:32
This is a great insight, Tony. Thanks for sharing.

Many ways to perceive a point, and we are all playing our own special part. If we could remember this all the time, it would be easy to always treat one another with respect and patience and tolerance.

Food for thought!

Hello Lettherebelight,
Your phrase "Playing our own special part" I find extremely interesting.

It sometimes feel like we have to follow a very fine thread golden in life. Even though one sort of joins a group, one's thread seem to be slightly different from others.
It can be in tune with others, but it is unique, or have its own unique obstacles, which we have to solve. Understanding this, helps one to appreciate that other have 'their' obstacles also.

So we indeed can have respect and patience and tolerance for others. It's sad we we argue..."it's like this"..."no no it's like that!" It is the way 'we' see it.
Perhaps we came from under a stone, or deep in another universe, but 99.999% of us have a good intention, and that is pretty special.

Wow!...that sort of says, most of the universe is in love! Wow!

All we can do is share experience, it may or may not help other.

Tony
10th March 2012, 14:43
Of course on reflection, 99.999% of us have a good intention, but...it is still only an intention!
Which means that 99.999% of us are still selfish!

On reflection, that's good enough, at least we aren't the .001% that are downright evil....

eaglespirit
10th March 2012, 15:03
Staring for a few moments at an early Sunrise or late Sunset in quiet contemplation regularly nurtures selflessness and immortality in a rhythm
with earth and cosmic changes beyond imaginings...and we are now stepping into changes above and beyond the most glorious of imaginings.

Pieces of inner peace turning it all into outer peace and blossoming of a sunlit nurturing of wonder in a theater in front of you

The night, the day...the dark, the light...the ebb, the flow...You create the balance and growth of the new

You are the reflection that vibrates the higher here into being

Tony
10th March 2012, 15:50
Meditation of the third kind.


GYi9MNbb7ik

Tony
10th March 2012, 17:29
My goodness loving kindness is hard work!

Every moment is an opportunity.

Ineffable Hitchhiker
10th March 2012, 17:46
Meditation of the third kind.


GYi9MNbb7ik


http://i54.tinypic.com/2l87xiu.gif AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Love ya Tony! :luv:
Thanks for being here!

Solstyse
10th March 2012, 17:48
My goodness loving kindness is hard work!

Every moment is an opportunity.

I don't think it's supposed to be hard work :(
Love should flow out like water.
Reflecting on that is like patting yourself on the back.
We need to concentrate,on the not so loving things we do.
There is your reflection.

I could of wrote.

When we reach a higher understanding with the relative truth, our actions in the absolute truth, should be as second nature as our hearts beating.
If we focus our energies on that we fall in danger of the ever increasing ego.
In order to truly shift our vibration, into calibration, with the divination, and finally form unification, we need to understand the negative aspects of what we resonate.
When we put the thoughts and spirit, caused by reflections, into action that is true meditation.

but eh. :)

Tony
10th March 2012, 18:01
My goodness loving kindness is hard work!

Every moment is an opportunity.

I don't think it's supposed to be hard work :(
Love should flow out like water.
Reflecting on that is like patting yourself on the back.
We need to concentrate,on the not so loving things we do.
There is your reflection.

I could of wrote.

When we reach a higher understanding with the relative truth, our actions in the absolute truth, should be as second nature as our hearts beating.
If we focus our energies on that we fall in danger of the ever increasing ego.
In order to truly shift our vibration, into calibration, with the divination, and finally form unification, we need to understand the negative aspects of what we resonate.
When we put the thoughts and spirit, caused by reflections, into action that is true meditation.

but eh. :)




Loving kindness that flows like water,
is enlightened love.
We can hope to drip a little.

music
10th March 2012, 22:17
The light and the dark. For too long we have been manipulated to see the light as “good”, and the dark as “bad”. This is a key to keeping us from our power, because the re-unification of the poles within us is the key to regaining our power. The corruption of the “new age” movement by disinformation is insidious and clever, because within the new age pantheon lie the keys we need to become all we can be. Disinformation is the killer of the soul. To become whole, we must confront those aspects of ourselves we have demonised and repressed, shower them with Love, and welcome them back to our beautiful and perfect being. This requires much hard work, and the corrupt “new age” movement neglects this work and replaces it with “just be in the light and it will sort itself out”.

It is worth noting that “Saying a thing is good or bad limits our understanding. Saying a thing is neither good or bad limits our understanding” is true, and I would relate a story that takes this further. I recently underwent extensive dental work without any needles. When the pain became too much, I went into the place “outside” bodily awareness to avoid it. In this space “pain” and “not pain” do not become the same thing – they merely cease to have relevance. So while the pain impulses are still being transmitted to the brain, because I am free of the brain they are no longer relevant. The Love of higher consciousness does not render good or bad into similarity or nothingness, it is that these terms are functions of the human ego, so they cease to be relevant. When we are in the place of unified consciousness, we are whole, and polarity ceases to exist.

Tony
11th March 2012, 12:38
This is such an important subject.

Non-duality is a very subtle business.

There is the real and the seemingly real.
The very nature of the seemingly real is the real.

The dark is the seemingly real.
The light is the real.

The seemingly real is the conceptual world in which we live.
The real is our absolute pure nature.

As everything is impermanent, including our ideas, they have no absolute reality.
They are a relative truth.

When we believe that the relative world is real, we have duality: me observing the real, solid world.

When we recognise that the nature of everything is emptiness, and that things never truly existed in the first place, and all there is is empty essence, we arrive at non-duality.

Light shines on a surface and there are no shadows. No darks.
A temporary event occurs, rising from that surface, creating a shadow.

That event, being temporary, will dissolve back in to the surface, and therefore the shadow disappears, revealing that that light is there all the time.
That light is our own, luminous, clear empty essence. Pure...

This is seen in meditation, when thoughts occur. They are temporary events.
That which is aware of these temporary events is the light of non-duality.

It is a very subtle business...

greybeard
11th March 2012, 14:08
Nasargadatta I am That
Quote from pages 315/6

I self-realization so important?

Answer
Without it you will be consumed by desires and fears, repeating themselves meaninglessly in endless suffering. Most people dont know that there can be an end to pain. But once they have heard the good news, obviously going beyond all strife and struggling is the most urgent task that can be.
You know that you can be free and now its up to you. Either you remain forever hungry and thirsty, longing searching grabbing ever holding ever losing and sorrowing or go out wholeheartedly in search of the state of timeless perfection to which nothing can be added, from which nothing--- taken away.
It it all desires and fears are absent, not because they were given up but because they have lost their meaning.


So far I have been following you. Now what am I expected to do?

Answer
There is nothing you can do. Just be. Do nothing. Be. No climbing mountains and sitting in caves.
I do not even say. “be yourself” since you do not know yourself. Just be.
Having seen that you are neither the “outer” world of percievables, nor the “inner” world of thinkables,
that you are neither mind or body, just be.



Answer
There are no steps to self-realization. There is nothing gradual about it. It happens suddenly and is
irreversible. You rotate into a new dimension, seen from which the previous ones are mere abstractions.
Just like on sunrise you see things as they are, so on self-realization you see everything as it is. The world of illusions is left behind.

Nevertheless there is progress?

Answer
There can only be progress in the preparation (sadhana) Realization is sudden. The fruit ripens slowly but falls suddenly and without return



The teacher meets you where you stand.
Some he will tell Be as in this extract from I am That.
Others he will give further instruction to.
Depends on how much work has already been done.
Considering Nasargadatta had little education his responses are very "learned"---- smiling.

Chris