What is really going on with this oil leak? [Archive] - The Project Avalon Community Forum

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irishspirit

23rd July 2010, 12:41

I am not an American, the name gives that away. However, I am very concerned about what is going on in the Gulf with this oil leak.

The sources that we would all trust and admire for their courage seem to be getting it badly wrong, or are they?

Are we tio believe that in which BP has told us, given the level of lies that we have heard from them in the past. Has this thing really been stopped? Or, is there a chance that something big could happen with regards to explosions?

I am concerned by the fact that there has been so much fear placed on this spill, including here on this forum, for it all to come to nothing. Should that be the case, I think that people who have been the doom sayers have lost a lot of respect, to which they will not be able to recover from.

Therefore, my big question is really what is the truth here?

Be safe

Irish spirit

Steven

23rd July 2010, 13:04

I share some of your concerns. But in search for the truth, some researchers often speak their mind, make assumptions, without specifying it is their opinion. It's natural, we all do it. The challenge comes when we take it for granted right away and let the emotion (stress and all other emotive charge) build up a certain confusion around the event. Secrety from the 'officials' only contribute to make it worse.

My opinion is that we will see more oil leak in the future. It is built to happen, considering the incredible numbers of oil platform in the oceans and considering the sudden increase of earthquake, volcano activities, etc...

There is an urgency to change our way of living, especially with transport energy.

At least, the oil spill in the golf brought the problem at our attention, worldwide. But, its not only in the golf of Mexico...

I see the oil spill as a symptom of a badly adapted way of living we are perpetrating with Nature. In the overall, the real confusion, or the source of many confusion, lies in our increasing distance with Nature. We are way too disconnected from Nature and it's ways. Until the day we realise it and change our ways to reduce this gap, we will only suffer more oil spills of any kind...

Namaste, Steven

Etherios

23rd July 2010, 13:39

how can you change your way if you have been raised to accept that this is the only way. :-P it isnt us who have to change. Its how the society things its the proper (not the only) way.

Fredkc

23rd July 2010, 14:15

Hey Irish!
Good to hear from you. I hope you and the kids are doing well.

I agree that the level of lies told by BP, and supported by both the US govt, and the media are incredible. It seems that everyone involved is still convinced they can ride out the standard "48 hour news cycle" and lie their way out of all this. Trouble is, if they do, the oil, like the truth will eventually "out".

One thing that seems to have dropped off the radar, and concerns me;
In the time the cap was removed, and the new BOP was placed over-top of the old, and larger one, I heard a CNN guy confirm that the entire structure had leaned over from its initial 5 degrees to 15 degrees from vertical.

What we've had is a 21 inch pipe, poorly supported in the ground, supporting 640 tons of equipment. Kind of like putting your house atop a flag pole. Now they have added a 2nd BOP which (forgive me, I'm going by memory here) weighs another 150 tons, on top of that. It was "falling over " to begin with, and it's now even heavier.

So yes, the oil is stopped. But given the beast that's down there, for how long? I certainly hope they're using this breather to do something "smart" that leads to a real solution.

Steven;
My opinion is that we will see more oil leaks in the future. It is built to happen, considering the incredible numbers of oil platform in the oceans and considering the sudden increase of earthquake, volcano activities, etc...
This simply defies logic!
From day one even the local govt officials doing most of the whining moaning and pleading over what's become of their precious coastline, have also been the most vocal in wanting the drilling of similar wells to continue in the name of "saving jobs"! Let's review. To begin with:
BP claimed they had the technology to handle this.
BP claimed they had the infrastructure to handle this.
BP claimed they had a plan to implement it.
Government claimed they had examined all of this and it was approved.
In each and every case, both BP and the government LIED through their teeth!

Not only that, every other oil company out there trying to do the same thing is using a "copy/paste" version of the same lies! AND govt appears to be "ok" with that, too.

I have scratched my brain, trying to come up with something equally as stupid, as allowing this madness to continue. All I can think of is ...
Imagine the reaction to a govt that claims they'd want to keep the ovens in Auschwitz open, because they're worried about "the poor oven worker's jobs". I mean, what they are doing could possibly kill hundreds of thousands, displace, or unemploy same, destroy a huge part of the local economy, and territory. They know it and yet, knowing they have no "viable means" of handling it, want to continue for the sake of a few hundred workers!

Excuse me but... Screw them!
This is the last place anyone should settle for parties involved to "go through the motions" and hope for the best. We've done that. That's how we got here!

This is KNUTZ! It's rampant insanity, with no upside for anyone. And the best rebuttal I have heard against the Fed's efforts to stop deep water drilling until this gets sorted runs along the lines of, "Who does the government think it is, to be telling a corporation what they can/can't do?"

Even in my most rabidly libertarian moments, I cannot come up with a defense for that.
(rant ends ;) )
Fred

sunnyrap

23rd July 2010, 15:23

Ba-ba-Ra

23rd July 2010, 16:20

I'm completely amazed why ALL of them (ranking gov't officials; corporate execs) have not been taken to court and forced to testify or be imprisoned--if change is what we truly want. The Constitution and so many laws have been broken, so many deaths 'allowed' and in all apparancy, intended; what more does America need--? They continue to do these things because there is no solidarity in the greater country to truly stop it.

Sunnyrap, this is all true. And they work very hard to make sure there is no solidarity. That's what the 2 parties are all about, but in truth, we Americans need to look behind the picture they are presenting us. For example, in our last election. Obama vs. McCain. Guess who was one of the biggest financial supporters of both. Goldman Sachs! ...if citizens realized this, they would have realized we really didn't have a choice, it just seemed that way. How long have we been fighting over abortion, prayer in school, etc? .. and while they keep us focused on these issues, they are draining and bankrupting our economy. It's like the old: follow the bouncing ball, however, most are focused on the ball they are bouncing. Most of the political bantering is just theater to keep our focus from the real issues. We can't look for truth from those who are creating the problems. And we need to realize that much of the alternative press has also been infiltrated by agents provocateur. Bill has realized this and is trying to stay balanced and look deeper and not always be swayed by "whistleblowers" who are really purposely planted to give us hype... after the hype (tsunamis, underground volcanoes, huge methane explosions,etc) somehow the mess in the Gulf doesn't seem so bad and everyone says, "whew, we missed that bullet". Totally ignoring the mess that we're left with. This is not meant to be a political discussion. Only one of a reality check. Ba-ba-Ra

Steven

23rd July 2010, 16:35

how can you change your way if you have been raised to accept that this is the only way. :-P it isnt us who have to change. Its how the society things its the proper (not the only) way.

If you accept the actual way of living because you have been convinced its the only way, then the oil spill is for you to wake up and change your mind about "our ways". Yes, it is us who have to change. Don't wait for the government, nor the multinationals to do it for you. You will eat oil in your soup before they make a move. Definite and concrete positive changes have always been created from the base in our human history, never from the top.

Namaste, Steven

Bill Ryan

23rd July 2010, 17:00

The sources that we would all trust and admire for their courage seem to be getting it badly wrong, or are they?

Yes, they seem to be... it's important to ask why.

One hypothesis MIGHT be that there has been a quiet intel campaign to get the alternative media becoming more and more hysterical about entirely the wrong issues - for one of these reasons:

To discredit them ('Wolf, Wolf') in preparation for something that might come later (i.e. make the alternative media weaker and less confident)
To divert attention from the real issues (which may be those of toxicity and health, or the environment: remember, the situation is bad enough as it is)
To get people so relieved that there HASN'T been a tsunami / volcano / total pollution of all the world's oceans / end of the world as we know it -- that they will be DELIGHTED that the situation is fixed and then look no further at anything at all.

Celine

23rd July 2010, 18:23

how can you change your way if you have been raised to accept that this is the only way. :-P it isnt us who have to change. Its how the society things its the proper (not the only) way.

I'm curious...who do you think "society" is?

kcw_one

23rd July 2010, 19:14

Too right Celine. When I read the railings and rantings of so many in the alternative media arena, so many are quick to identify what "they" have done to us and our planet to wreck things. I hear of all the blamery going on towards government and corporations, and then some kind of breathless anticipation for the day that "they" turn over a new leaf and start doing it right. Yeesh.

Whether or not any of the other 99% of us actually played a part in actively creating the problems we face, every human - man woman and child - bears the burden of responsibility for what happens on this planet. We are ONE race, ONE nation, ONE world. As long as we continue to say that it was BP that did this, or Russia or Israel or Iran that did those other things, we'll continue to be manipulated with the nationalistic rantings of the power hungry few who have guided events in this direction.

We ALL are stewards of this planet. We ALL are responsible for its protection. And we've been doing a crappy job. This is the missing ingredient in our social consciousness. The solution lies in a unified GLOBAL effort towards awaking to who we really are and what our role is. We must take responsibility for the fact that WE did these things. We cannot separate ourselves from the psychopathic 1% who committed action to creating these problems, as that way lies in declaring the rest of us as victims. That kind of thinking will get us nowhere.
Peace.

irishspirit

24th July 2010, 10:15

Hey Irish!
Good to hear from you. I hope you and the kids are doing well.

I agree that the level of lies told by BP, and supported by both the US govt, and the media are incredible. It seems that everyone involved is still convinced they can ride out the standard "48 hour news cycle" and lie their way out of all this. Trouble is, if they do, the oil, like the truth will eventually "out".

One thing that seems to have dropped off the radar, and concerns me;
In the time the cap was removed, and the new BOP was placed over-top of the old, and larger one, I heard a CNN guy confirm that the entire structure had leaned over from its initial 5 degrees to 15 degrees from vertical.

What we've had is a 21 inch pipe, poorly supported in the ground, supporting 640 tons of equipment. Kind of like putting your house atop a flag pole. Now they have added a 2nd BOP which (forgive me, I'm going by memory here) weighs another 150 tons, on top of that. It was "falling over " to begin with, and it's now even heavier.

So yes, the oil is stopped. But given the beast that's down there, for how long? I certainly hope they're using this breather to do something "smart" that leads to a real solution.

This simply defies logic!
From day one even the local govt officials doing most of the whining moaning and pleading over what's become of their precious coastline, have also been the most vocal in wanting the drilling of similar wells to continue in the name of "saving jobs"! Let's review. To begin with:
BP claimed they had the technology to handle this.
BP claimed they had the infrastructure to handle this.
BP claimed they had a plan to implement it.
Government claimed they had examined all of this and it was approved.
In each and every case, both BP and the government LIED through their teeth!

Not only that, every other oil company out there trying to do the same thing is using a "copy/paste" version of the same lies! AND govt appears to be "ok" with that, too.

I have scratched my brain, trying to come up with something equally as stupid, as allowing this madness to continue. All I can think of is ...
Imagine the reaction to a govt that claims they'd want to keep the ovens in Auschwitz open, because they're worried about "the poor oven worker's jobs". I mean, what they are doing could possibly kill hundreds of thousands, displace, or unemploy same, destroy a huge part of the local economy, and territory. They know it and yet, knowing they have no "viable means" of handling it, want to continue for the sake of a few hundred workers!

Excuse me but... Screw them!
This is the last place anyone should settle for parties involved to "go through the motions" and hope for the best. We've done that. That's how we got here!

This is KNUTZ! It's rampant insanity, with no upside for anyone. And the best rebuttal I have heard against the Fed's efforts to stop deep water drilling until this gets sorted runs along the lines of, "Who does the government think it is, to be telling a corporation what they can/can't do?"

Even in my most rabidly libertarian moments, I cannot come up with a defense for that.
(rant ends ;) )
Fred

Hi Fredkc..

Really nice to see that you are well my friend. The family is doing amazing just now. We just had the wedding and not long back from honeymoon. Fantastic time that was in our lives.

Fredkc, yet again, you talk sense. However, your point aboput for how long this will remin capped is very valid in my few. There are alot of gases down there ready to exploded given the change and if the pressure builds and builds, WOW!

Bill, I very much agree with you on this one, the alternative media have bought this hook line and sinker. However, I still think that there is alot to this issue that we are not being told! The fact is, this remains a very dangerous situation, that could go very wrong at any given time.

I would not trust BP, MSM or the Gov over this issue for love nor money.

Be safe

Irish spirit

Etherios

24th July 2010, 13:12

Snowbird

24th July 2010, 16:34

Bill, I very much agree with you on this one, the alternative media have bought this hook line and sinker. However, I still think that there is alot to this issue that we are not being told! The fact is, this remains a very dangerous situation, that could go very wrong at any given time.

I would not trust BP, MSM or the Gov over this issue for love nor money.

Be safe

Irish spirit

Exactly! False flag operations have abounded in history. And, here we are again, attempting to decipher between a natural occurrence made by mistake and a planned horror to keep us tuned in and tuned out to their next move.

Right after the heinous actions of 9/11, there was a small group of very brave young people (below) who took it upon themselves to investigate 9/11 in such a way that their findings and their opinions went absolutely counter to the U.S. government's original conspiracy theory.

When the people of the U.S. first viewed their extremely controversial video, Loose Change, the American people went ballistic...not at our government, but at these young people whose courage and fortitude and constant vigil, IMO, will go down in history as the turning point in world opinion. These bold young people began to set the record straight. Where would we be without them today? We would most likely, still be wondering if Saddam Hussein or Osama bin Laden were the real 9/11 perps.

:tsk::ballchain:

Loose Change (2005, 2006, 2007, 2009) is a series of films written and directed by Dylan Avery, and produced by Korey Rowe, Jason Bermas and Matthew Brown. The latest edition is narrated by Daniel Sunjata, and exclusively distributed by Microcinema International. The films argue that the September 11, 2001 attacks were planned and conducted by elements within the United States government, and base the claims on perceived anomalies in the historical record of the attacks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loose_Change_(film)

HORIZONS

24th July 2010, 16:43

Yes, they seem to be... it's important to ask why.

One hypothesis MIGHT be that there has been a quiet intel campaign to get the alternative media becoming more and more hysterical about entirely the wrong issues - for one of these reasons:

To discredit them ('Wolf, Wolf') in preparation for something that might come later (i.e. make the alternative media weaker and less confident)
To divert attention from the real issues (which may be those of toxicity and health, or the environment: remember, the situation is bad enough as it is)
To get people so relieved that there HASN'T been a tsunami / volcano / total pollution of all the world's oceans / end of the world as we know it -- that they will be DELIGHTED that the situation is fixed and then look no further at anything at all.

Or "D" - All of the above.

PINEAL-PILOT-IN MERKABAH

24th July 2010, 16:46

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1q7_lQANbo&videos=NTAAVhHJ42A

Here is some evidence on the attmept by bp to get local scientists into contracts to keep them under control and stop them from doing independant testing ect. We have to remember that bp is a key illuminati corporation and thus cannot be trusted anymore than goverments or any other power broker. There is still media cencorship and bp are still lying through their teeth and riding n roughshod over congress. Tony hayward is kook and charlatan. Even if the oil spill has stopped (highly doubtful) like bill says the situation is serious enough already.i dont think they will evacuate the gulf coast since theywant to depopulate , so why move everyone out of the kill zone of poisonus gas.

The oil spill is a side issue to divert us from the collapsing economy and war preparations with iran(ww3). The financial takeover bill passed in the usa so unless that can be repealed asap the usa is toast.

HORIZONS

24th July 2010, 17:01

Exactly! False flag operations have abounded in history. And, here we are again, attempting to decipher between a natural occurrence made by mistake and a planned horror to keep us tuned in and tuned out to their next move.

Right after the heinous actions of 9/11, there was a small group of very brave young people (below) who took it upon themselves to investigate 9/11 in such a way that their findings and their opinions went absolutely counter to the U.S. government's original conspiracy theory.

When the people of the U.S. first viewed their extremely controversial video, Loose Change, the American people went ballistic...not at our government, but at these young people whose courage and fortitude and constant vigil, IMO, will go down in history as the turning point in world opinion. These bold young people began to set the record straight. Where would we be without them today? We would most likely, still be wondering if Saddam Hussein or Osama bin Laden were the real 9/11 perps.

:tsk::ballchain:

Loose Change (2005, 2006, 2007, 2009) is a series of films written and directed by Dylan Avery, and produced by Korey Rowe, Jason Bermas and Matthew Brown. The latest edition is narrated by Daniel Sunjata, and exclusively distributed by Microcinema International. The films argue that the September 11, 2001 attacks were planned and conducted by elements within the United States government, and base the claims on perceived anomalies in the historical record of the attacks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loose_Change_(film)

A very good point of observation, that I find myself in agreement with. I think we must all remain open minded and "teachable" on this issue UNTIL all the facts unfold, and unadultrated information flows freely into the public domain about this issue. I have a hard time believing that between BP and the Coast Guard controlling all of the spill site, and everything surrounding it, that we have any firsthand information that is not filtered by PTB. I remember my old boss giving me a shirt that had "Remember 911" silkscreened on it with a picture of the towers. PTB's wanted us to remember "their" version of the story - but we need to remember what really happened as a precedence for what we are witnessing today.

Fredkc

24th July 2010, 17:52

I certainly hope they're using this breather to do something "smart" that leads to a real solution. (sorry, me quoting me was simply more than I could resist ;) )

I am convinced that our best hope of BP doing just that, is "built-in";
The very same monster that got us here may quite well be the thing what gets it fixed - Greed!

The original "accident", and approaches BP has taken to stopping the oil have been driven by two things;
1. Their greed, and
2. Their level of preparedness for what happened.

I put the word accident in quotes, not because I am trying to hint at some evil plot, but because it wasn't an accident. It was not deliberate, but the consequence of their actions were inevitable. They took the cheap route, over and above every normal safety procedure, and every normal indication their actions were buying them trouble.

A parallel;
If you start a cross-country road trip with bald tires, little water in the radiator, a worn out battery, and don't even bother to check under the hood (bonnet, sorry), and then ignore every gauge on the dash telling you something is wrong because "you're in a hurry!!", the pile of rubble you find yourself sitting in, a few hours later, is not an accident.

Yes, BP has repeatedly dodged, or blurred the release of hard figures on how much is leaking, and it has been deliberate. But the attached fines, and what not, are all "later issues" they can sic a room-full of lawyers on, later. It's a "later issue". What IS right now is the way in which the leak is stopped.

You'll notice that every effort by BP (with the exception of the other holes drilled) has had the notion of "control" built into it. Here we come back to greed, IMO. There are EPA regulations that go into effect once you simply "plug the damned hole!" as Obama put it. Once you simply plug the hole, EPA regs say that you can never re-open the well again. Done! Finito!

BP gets paid by the barrel, not by the hole. ;)

so yes, BP wants to stop the oil flow, yes they want to avoid fines, bad PR, and everything else that came with this, but the last thing they wanted to do is simply "plug the damned hole!" ("side issues" like people's lives and livelyhood, the environment be damned) What BP needs, in simple accounting terms, is a revenue stream to offset the future costs this well will mean. What better source for the revenue, than the very thing which brought it on?

Such is their pragmatism, I believe.

Fred

kcw_one

24th July 2010, 19:46

I will disagree with you kcw_one. From the moment you were born you were educated to think act and react in a specific way. If you think that the society (aka the humans in the same area , celine) isnt guided to a direction good or wrong ... then you are mistaken. The trends the new fashion the new tv shows... they follow specific guidelines. The ppl that create this are not the majority.

New things that appear in the societies are not produced by the majority. They are made solid from the majority but are being introduced by some ppl that are ... who ever you want.

So back to the Q. Humans become what they are train them to be. Ofc there are ppl that escape this but the majority will never even realize that they are controled.

Ill give you some examples.
Look around you and try to figure the followings.
1st Why are money needed ?
2nd Why everything we do has money as prime directive?
3rd Why we feel we are successful when we make lots of money?
4th Why ppl think they are better than others ? (just based on color, area of birth, type of religion)
5th Why ppl think they are not one race?

the Qs are countless ... ill reply to all ... we are raised/trained/brained washed by ---- (insert who you want here). this doesnt mean we are not at fault but will you blame someone that thinks he is doing what his god tells him as wrong? Does he know anything else?

When did you ppl wake up? From birth? From a friend? from your family? Dont think the majority as like you. If we spread the fault then the ppl giving the orders are never exposed.

As steve say we are responsible to wake up and see whats around us and react. But we should never blame the ppl next to you for creating this. We are just at fault for following those sick nonhumans .... not for getting us here. Anyway....

We must continue to disagree my friend, since as long as you think like a slave you will continue to be one. With each of your responses, it seems, you offer the vibrational suppression that you claim has been done to us all. When speaking of our global responsibility, I did not speak of blame. It is clear whose actions have brought about the things we see today. What good does knowing that do? Shall we find those who did these things and kill them? Would that make us feel better or be righter? Nope. It would make us become just like them.

We all asked for this. From the non-physical perspective things are turning out perfectly. We've got an excellent global example of how we do not want things done. Now we can sit around and complain about how us poor humans are brainwashed slaves, or we can start envisioning a better world and go towards that.

What's really going on with this oil spill? It is a CATALYST.of global awakening. So many of us are so comatose that it is taking this massive jolt to wake us up. Yeah maybe the corexit is deadly crap and theres lots of dead sea life and blahblahblah. We know the problem is serious. We all feel heartsick at the pAin this is causing. Why sit around paralysed by despair, speculating about all this stuff. If it matters that much to you to evoke such feeling, then find a way to do something to help. For all problems there are solutions. The only way to get to those solutions is to put your focus there. The answers, the means and the creativity will follow.

Ethereal Blue Being

24th July 2010, 20:51

Here in the major southwestern city of the US where I live people are almost traumatized by this event. It isn't just the ones with relatives, friends or business ties to the coast. It is everone. When I go to the store whether it's a Dept. store or a Whole Foods Market I overhear (ok eavesdrop is probably more accurate) the conversations concerning the Gulf spill. Everyone seems to agree, its highly toxic/deadly, there is probably more oil below the surface than above because of the Corexit dispersant and the bird estuaries (wetlands) of Louisiana and the edible food chain will not be clean/trustworthy for centuries. Some grocery stores are putting signs next to the seafood that tell area of origin or "not from the Gulf area". some have drastically dropped their prices others are significantly raising them. Today on CNN and the weather channel Tropical Depression Bonnie that is going thru the Gulf has weakened but the high tides will be up by 2-3 ft (about a meter) and they said it will push the oil somewhat further inland. Their word 'somewhat' sounds trivial but it probably isn't. I just stay calm, be prepared (my family decades ago were midwestern farmers so thats an easy one) and continue to live my life as environmentally and financially sustainable as possible. We all are examples to others now more than ever.

kcw_one

25th July 2010, 01:13

I just stay calm, be prepared (my family decades ago were midwestern farmers so thats an easy one) and continue to live my life as environmentally and financially sustainable as possible. We all are examples to others now more than ever.

Very glad to hear. If/when these socioeconomic collapses take place and panic abounds, there will be those of us that continue on calmly in the face of what may seem to others as chaos. It will be in those times where our example will be most effective and others will begin to seek answers as to why we do not fear what may appear to be the end of the world. Keep shining your light, the dawn is near.