Welcome to The Pub At the End of the Universe.

[Borden]

I do wonder, could not a thought of the mind virus not be seen as the virus, itself?

Would one of it's primary modes of operation not consist in the corruption of the very things that could be most helpful it the exposure and removal of the virus, itself?

I've often had that thought, PL. My take on it is that the problem lies with the nature of recognition, not the recognition itself.

I've spent years identifying and battling what I've only recently, in Songsy's terms, come to describe as the mind-virus ... and in recent years I've taken a new approach. Of course, in the face of pain the new approach can be completely forgotten and I revert to the most blitheringly reactionary responses ... but what I feel I now at least have is the ability to look at some of my more bone-headed responses and say "oh, well done, moron," to myself. "What brainiac put me in charge of me?!" Never underestimate the ability to see what an idiot you are.

A couple of years ago I was in a period of deep unhappiness and fear, and I really had no way out. There was no resolve or stance that could alchemize what was making me suffer, so I had to do something else. In my thoughts at the time was the notion that the 'mind-virus' (not what I called it then) was a parasitic entity feeding from my fear and pain, and using my mind as a vehicle to do so. I'd read Castaneda and various other people, and had begun - several years prior - to identify this thing as something that uses the ego but is not the ego. Since some long, excellent discussions with Songsy about this subject my attitude towards the virus has shifted and refined a little, but I suppose not fundamentally changed.

Anyway, for me I'd had to reach the point of no longer minding whether I lived or died. I mean this genuinely and with no bravado or implied courage on my part. I'd spent a very long time skirting the idea of what the virus actually is, and taking many wrong turns, but essentially I always knew. It was just a case of letting go of my 'not knowing'. It's the same feeling of knowing that I experienced when I first astral projected, when I first experienced the immensity (like being in the grip of an industrial magnet) of what chakras actually are ... it's not a discovery, it's a rediscovery. It's always a feeling of ... "Oooooh ... it's this!"

So I remember one night lying in bed trying to sleep and being completely unable. The fear and misery were so consuming that I couldn't fight them. The personal details are irrelevant, because this can translate to anything that tortures you. Anything that you feel is your special agony that gets its claws into you and you alone. That's where to find the virus at its least slippery and guarded. Why? Because it knows that's where you live, and it knows exactly how to feed on you there, and its camouflage is your own mind doing all that projecting and shadow dancing. That's where it can hide in plain sight and feast while you do all the catering.

I'd begun to establish the habit of letting it see that I could see it. I did all sorts of things, like mocking it - mocking my own pain and fear. "Go on then, do your little routine ... dance your little dance." When I found that this worked I then tried to wait until it was blinking at me like a deflated idiot, and I tried to burn it where it stood. Then, of course, I was speaking its language again. Just doesn't work. I'd watch it lay low, strike when I least expected it, and dance its dance.

It was only when I finally hit upon the idea that I couldn't kill it that I learned about the 'watching' thing, and dropped my 'not knowing' about how to do that. I simply watched it with piercing scrutiny but absolutely no emotional agenda or attachment. Let me tell you something ... the mind-virus really doesn't have an answer for that. If you can do that you'll know exactly what I mean.

Before anyone thinks I am imagining myself terribly clever or wise, let me assure you that I am also depressingly capable of walking right up to the virus while wearing a suit made of meat, handing it a knife and fork, and yodelling, "Come on 'ave a go if ya think yer 'ard enough!" This approach tends not to go well for me, but I still sometimes find myself doing it.

I suppose my point is that we can never win a battle against something that's using our own fists to hit us.

There's another subject on my mind at the moment too, and it's to do with how the virus can manifest in a consensus way. Evil archetypes sort of thing. I feel it's very important to see those things (if they exist, and I've had several profound astral/lucid dream and even 3D experiences suggesting they do) in exactly the same way as the virus within. Given substance only by us. Perhaps not only us, but other minds that dwell in this world too, but the principle's the same. Wonder if anyone has any thoughts on this idea.

[Carmody]

Anyway, for me I'd had to reach the point of no longer minding whether I lived or died. I mean this genuinely and with no bravado or implied courage on my part.

And that is when the ability to move into silence begins.. when the body and it's voice flails about no more....and freedom finally takes shape. Or the construct looses shape and value, if you will.

First you must be MacBeth, and see the dagger before you. Then comes the understanding of the non-existence of the dagger.

we stand at the precipice of coming to know and to be, we seek comforts in talk, and humorous conversation. To slow the coming of the moment... where we know we are going. We are going to jump off that cliff, into the waters of deep stillness.

There is no preparing, there is only the getting it done. The act of stilling the self.

As Yoda said, 'There is no Try'.


To get more to the core of the matter.

When we 'still' the conscious internal speaking/talking voice, we are not stemming the source of the voice. The source is deeper. First, deepest..is the quelling of the emotions.

when you silence the internal voice, after a while... you will feel the thrust of the subconscious pre-vocal forming of the conscious thought, like a thing coming up from the deep.

THAT is the source of the voice and the place you have to go to quell that voice. to still the mind.

Part of that is this thing I quoted. You must want it or it must affect you at the deepest levels of life/drive/force.

That is the layer it must be at. It will never be conscious in level.

Right now, listening to:

dYTIkRSfgXU

[Borden]

Except, as I've said here before, we didn't come on holiday by mistake.

Talk and humurous conversation are not necessarily lesser things. It all depends on their flavour and their motivation. In fact, having seen the illusory nature, it only becomes more clear that the deep stillness is the ultimate expression of the mind-virus. The universe isn't still, it's a dance. We are not here ... to disappear.

[Carmody]

Except, as I've said here before, we didn't come on holiday by mistake.

Talk and humurous conversation are not necessarily lesser things. It all depends on their flavour and their motivation. In fact, having seen the illusory nature, it only becomes more clear that the deep stillness is the ultimate expression of the mind-virus. The universe isn't still, it's a dance. We are not here ... to disappear.


You drive a potent car, Borden. I see that it is still trying to remain the driver. :)

It is a wily bastard, isn't it? Always trying to find a way out.....

[Borden]

No, it isn't, and that's such a pompous assumption, by the way. I know the more insidious, gold-plated mind-virus traps ... and I would rather flounder and create than insult my own intelligence by falling for them.

[Carmody]

No, it isn't, and that's such a pompous assumption, by the way. I know the more insidious, gold-plated mind-virus traps ... and I would rather flounder and create than insult my own intelligence by falling for them.

And your emotions arose to block the knowing.

We've been down this road before, haven't we?

:)

[Borden]

My emotions did not rise to block any knowing. If I were you I'd try not projecting your own predispositions onto others. You are not in any position to judge what my emotions are doing right now or how they respond to you. I know exactly what you think you're seeing, because it's all in the tourist guidebook. You go ahead and live in someone else's universe if it suits you. Just because I happily admit to my own failures and confusions does not mean I don't, as I just said, recognize insidious, gold-plated mind-virus traps when I see them.

I stated an opinion that differs from yours and you replied "You drive a potent car, Borden. I see that it is still trying to remain the driver."

Does pomposity hold some special 'get out of ego free card' I didn't know about? Honestly.

[Calz]

You drive a potent car ... :)



Carmody in dah house ... err ... umm ... Pub.

This thread just keeps getting better ...


Orv_F2HV4gk

[another bob]

deep stillness is the ultimate expression of the mind-virus

Exactly what the virus would have you believe, since what it fears most is a lack of distraction. It's like a thief suddenly having a spotlight focused directly at them on a pitch black stage.

[Carmody]

My emotions did not rise to block any knowing. If I were you I'd try not projecting your own predispositions onto others. You are not in any position to judge what my emotions are doing right now or how they respond to you. I know exactly what you think you're seeing, because it's all in the tourist guidebook. You go ahead and live in someone else's universe if it suits you. Just because I happily admit to my own failures and confusions does not mean I don't, as I just said, recognize insidious, gold-plated mind-virus traps when I see them.

I stated an opinion that differs from yours and you replied "You drive a potent car, Borden. I see that it is still trying to remain the driver."

Does pomposity hold some special 'get out of ego free card' I didn't know about? Honestly.

When i said, 'It's a wily bastard', I meant All our ego bodies are wily bastards.

All. Inclusive.

No projecting from the me/i state, like a spear.... at another ego/mind state.

From the inclusive, the all state, no ego state.

Perception is also projection.

Therein lies part of the issue.

Perception itself, as a baseline factor, is also part of the change. I cannot wrestle with you, only you can wrestle with you.

I would have let it stand, excepting that others are in this thread.

[PurpleLama]

Stillness brings clarity, not annihilation. Speaking from my own experience.


What Carmody is saying doesn't strike me as pompous in the least. Funny, that. Self assured, certainly, and self possessed, but pompous? No.

The virus is not external to us. We see it everywhere when we paint it everywhere. It endeavors to distract us from the one path that leads us to it's undoing, the path that leads straight back into the heart of us.

When trained to stillness, to quiet, the ego voice operates extremely well to inform us of our internal status, what's good to go in, what's not. The voice of the physical body is what is was ever made to be, not so much the mouthpiece of the mind. That's where the virus comes from, and it's potential to color our every perception.

Other folks use different vocabularies to interface with this subject matter, which makes it all incredible fun, to me, at least. The discussion, debate, and eventually the finding where "my" ideas end and "your" ideas begin, and where they all overlap. The best ever.

¤=[Post Update]=¤



deep stillness is the ultimate expression of the mind-virus

Exactly what the virus would have you believe, since what it fears most is a lack of distraction. It's like a thief suddenly having a spotlight focused directly at them on a pitch black stage.

The importance of this statement cannot be overemphasized. IMHO.

[Borden]

deep stillness is the ultimate expression of the mind-virus

Exactly what the virus would have you believe, since what it fears most is a lack of distraction. It's like a thief suddenly having a spotlight focused directly at them on a pitch black stage.

I do understand what you're saying, Bob, and it's not even that I fully disagree. The thing I mentioned a few posts ago about 'watching' is exactly that spotlight you mention. But my life has been about learning the dreadful error in conflating one species of deep stillness with an entirely other.

There are two types of movement that disturb the deep stillness. One is distraction and - in my opinion - virus ... and the other is magnificent creation. The idea that because the virus, ego - whatever you want to call it - is not stillness ... stillness must be the goal, is not an intelligent one. To me, that's like saying that because mass murderers breathe oxygen, oxygen is the problem.

By the way, I'm not suggesting this is your belief, and you know I respect your mind.

[Carmody]

Borden, it is my hope that I have been of service to you, and that together, we have been of service to this thread.

All the world's a stage, And all the men and women merely players....

[another bob]

Borden, it is my hope that I have been of service to you, and that together, we have been of service to this thread.

All the world's a stage, And all the men and women merely players....


We will be seen on this stage of life again and again, until we become such good actors that we can play our parts perfectly, according to the Divine Will. Then the Stage Manager will say: "You need 'go no more out.' (Rev. 3:12). You have done My Will. You have played your part, and acted well. You did not lose courage. Now you have come back to Me, to be a pillar of immortality in the temple of My Eternal Existence."

--Paramahansa Yogananda, Spiritual Diary

[Borden]

My emotions did not rise to block any knowing. If I were you I'd try not projecting your own predispositions onto others. You are not in any position to judge what my emotions are doing right now or how they respond to you. I know exactly what you think you're seeing, because it's all in the tourist guidebook. You go ahead and live in someone else's universe if it suits you. Just because I happily admit to my own failures and confusions does not mean I don't, as I just said, recognize insidious, gold-plated mind-virus traps when I see them.

I stated an opinion that differs from yours and you replied "You drive a potent car, Borden. I see that it is still trying to remain the driver."

Does pomposity hold some special 'get out of ego free card' I didn't know about? Honestly.

When i said, 'It's a wily bastard', I meant All our ego bodies are wily bastards.

All. Inclusive.

No projecting from the me/i state, like a spear.... at another ego/mind state.

From the inclusive, the all state, no ego state.

Perception is also projection.

Therein lies part of the issue.

Perception itself, as a baseline factor, is also part of the change. I cannot wrestle with you, only you can wrestle with you.

I would have let it stand, excepting that others are in this thread.

I would have let your earlier post stand too, but didn't for the same reason.

Yes, I understood that you were referring to 'the' ego rather than my ego.

"You drive a potent car, Borden. I see that it is still trying to remain the driver."

You really don't see the presumption in that statement?

You don't know my mind, and you don't know my ego. You're not me. You may think you see shadows of your own ego in me, and who knows - perhaps you do. But you can't presume to understand who I am or make comparative judgments on the hold my ego has on who I am. To say, "I see that it is still trying to remain the driver" remains pompous even if you then try to ameliorate it with the post I've quoted. You don't know what car I'm driving, or what level of control I have over it. If you think you can judge that from what I write here, then you're doubtless prepared for whatever judgments I could make about your ego from the way you write, yes?

I'm not wrestling with you. Or myself. I know you can't see that, but it's all right.

[another bob]

deep stillness is the ultimate expression of the mind-virus

Exactly what the virus would have you believe, since what it fears most is a lack of distraction. It's like a thief suddenly having a spotlight focused directly at them on a pitch black stage.

I do understand what you're saying, Bob, and it's not even that I fully disagree. The thing I mentioned a few posts ago about 'watching' is exactly that spotlight you mention. But my life has been about learning the dreadful error in conflating one species of deep stillness with an entirely other.

There are two types of movement that disturb the deep stillness. One is distraction and - in my opinion - virus ... and the other is magnificent creation. The idea that because the virus, ego - whatever you want to call it - is not stillness ... stillness must be the goal, is not an intelligent one. To me, that's like saying that because mass murderers breathe oxygen, oxygen is the problem.

By the way, I'm not suggesting this is your belief, and you know I respect your mind.

Brother,

The stillness to which I refer is our actual nature, which is aware space. This spaciousness is the ground for the dance. Most of the traditional “spiritual” teachings infer that this human life is some kind of error or unfortunate occurrence - something to transcend, some sin or even something of the nature of a stain - tainted. But if we really inquire into this, we can see that consciousness has taken form for a kind of purpose. It expresses itself as form so that it can be conscious as form. That's the beauty of this amazing human birth. Consciousness can become self-aware through this human form. It can not only become self-aware, but can finally manifest liberation through form, through human-ness, in the way that we act in the field of space and time.

To be "liberated" from being a human being is not enough. The consciousness itself has an impulse to manifest itself in the world of space and time. This where some confusion enters in. To be able to have this realization function in the world seems to be the true call of evolution. Ultimately, the manifestation is a creation. It's a birthing from an act of indescribable Love. It's certainly not some terrible mistake that we need to escape from into some “higher dimension”. That's the goof of dualism. So many teachers confuse people here, but if it's all One, it is truly ALL ONE! There is no reason why that Oneness can't express Itself in the world of space and time just as much as in the Infinite. Such distinctions can be seen as mere notional indulgence, when all this “messiness” of our humanity is allowed to be liberated from such judgments of belief and conceptual filtration by the Power of Awakening.

In the "place" where consciousness is really unified, where it sees the true nature of both formlessness and form, such phrases as "I am That" are actually true. It becomes perceivable. One's sense of self expands to include everything. Here nothing is really outside of oneself. One needs to go beyond mind into one's own direct experience to really hear this, or else it just becomes more stale spices added to the conceptual stew of philosophy.

It would initially appear that this experience of unity consciousness is complete, once there is the realization that "I am That", "I am everything". It may seem that there is nothing more to see.

And yet if inquiry proceeds further, there is something very simple to recognize. Even in this unity consciousness there is an awareness of this unity consciousness. There is a very simple wakefulness of it, in which this unity consciousness is arising. This awake-ness has no qualities whatsoever. No bliss, no peace, no presence - not even consciousness. Sometimes this "Original Face" is called Emptiness. Yet it is even empty of any qualities of emptiness. It is not a state of consciousness, and yet it does not cancel what it transcends. It is not an interpretation on perception. Not a word or achievement.

Separate (egoic) self-consciousness, Formless consciousness, Unity consciousness are all arising within this, are all birthed within It. They all can actually be illuminated, or seen through, and thus become Liberated from any identification within this, from any fixation at any level of consciousness. Since everything arises from this wakefulness, this aware spaciousness, there is nothing that needs to be eliminated. The only "problem" that ever arose was the fixation on any level, and the following misidentification that inevitably ensues.

Awakeness does not need to hide in egoic consciousness, in formless consciousness, in unity consciousness, in peace or bliss - it loves them all. It functions through them all. They all can dance!

This dancing of all states of consciousness together is really the end, and the beginning, of incarnation, or conscious embodiment. To take in the whole of experience in one embrace - to swallow the Ocean in one gulp -- This is the Mystery!

What becomes realized is this simple awake Awareness that every being has, at every moment of their lives. One may have many mystical, transcendental experiences, and perhaps, through Grace, come eventually to the mystical experience of being truly ordinary, natural. Could this actually be the "ultimate ground", the full flowering of the transcendent Mystery - that the most liberating turns out to be the most ordinary? And yet, how could it be otherwise? It's only natural!



Ala Carmody, listening to this while I write:

oHO6pbjQ9ec

[Calz]

Great post Bob.

Lookin' for the PayPal button to balance the energies but I don't see one :noidea:

Much more than Bob. Some great stuff here from others as well.

Rather than what feels like "time is speeding up" it is clear "events are condensing" now.

Great song but not so good vid ... only one I could find.

[drove over 1000 miles in 1973 my freshman college year to see this band as a *back up band*]


IUubuhfCAJA

[another bob]

Rather than what feels like "time is speeding up" it is clear "events are condensing" now.



http://i49.tinypic.com/flwl15.jpg

[jorr lundstrom]

Well Bob. Jiddu Krishnamurti once told a story about when out

on the road in a car, Schainberg and Boom was discussing the

importance of being aware. They smashed a goat and the guys

didnt notice. The picture of the man reading a newspaper and

the woman having her coffee while maybe something else was

happening made me think of that story. LOL Thank you.


All is well


Jorr

[Calz]

http://www.adore-sport.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/081107_bumper_cars.jpg

http://carhumor.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/car-joke-funny-humor-bumper-car.jpg

http://chztotsandgiggles.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/funny-kids-pictures-bumper-cars.jpg

[PurpleLama]

Thank gawd for rubber baby buggy bumpers.

[Borden]

jZicrp_p4BE

[Calz]

jZicrp_p4BE

Now *that* is some bad ass bumper car sh!t goin' on!!!

[songsfortheotherkind]

I do wonder, could not a thought of the mind virus not be seen as the virus, itself?

Would one of it's primary modes of operation not consist in the corruption of the very things that could be most helpful it the exposure and removal of the virus, itself?

I started to answer this and it turned into something bigger so, not wanting to appear as if bombing your question with a heap of words, I moved it to a post.

[songsfortheotherkind]

My early morning response.

I have personally found that, in mapping the distortions of the virus, triangulation is good and isolation is not. It's why so many hackers get tricked into being trapped in their own heads, such as in schizophrenia or mental illness: no triangulation and mirror response possible. It's why I don't go into the 'no mind' space at all, because I've lived that and it nearly successfully destroyed me by eating my mind from the inside out, but I was so 'no mind' that I almost didn't notice until I could hear the screaming in my head from afar- WAKE UP! It was triangulation of a different kind, and I am grateful to my guides for caring enough to not allow me to be consumed.

Of course, that can be construed in an entirely different way: in the no mind state I was well on the way to achieving the emptiness, nothingness and disconnection that is the ultimate aim of the process, being a constant blank sky upon which the clouds move, being part of and connected to nothing at all, and that the urgent presences I heard and felt were nothing more than the virus desperately trying to prevent me from achieving that ultimate state and that they did not save me from oblivion and void but that void and nothing are where I was supposed to be going, so they're the virus. And all internal dialogue is the virus and that all thought is the virus.

I did think about that quite a few years ago:when I was trapped in a vicious mindtrap of 'can't trust my own thinking, can't trust anything at all' I used my core essence, kinesiology and other bodymind therapies to test it out. Of course, kinesiology could be just as much a trap, and all bodymind therapies, and anything else that appears to be of assistance in any way, because they too speak from the virus, so it's all a recursive trap and the only way 'out' is in no-mind, blankness, dissociation. I don't resonate to that though, and while I'm aware that this puts me in a certain unfavorable position within the presence of those that hold such views, I'm learning to disregard those no-mind views and the judgements, as subtle as they are, that goes along with them. I have a visceral reaction to it at present, which I'm working on releasing by simply turning towards what it is I want and letting go the other; I know I grow fangs in the presence of nihilism and I experience those philosophies as the ultimate in nihilism traps. I am working on turning away as peacefully and unattachedly from those as I now do with much of the rest of the noise I experience around me: it's one of the reasons I didn't have my female Manhattan picture in isolation, because I have no interest in that degree of dissociation, although Manhattan actually didn't stop thinking, exploring and experiencing, he just did those on a very diferent level.

I've met those those who like to think of themselves as 'godlike'. We passed each other by, not looking much at one another. I've met Creators and they definitely have creative and wondrous minds, even though these minds are very different to one another. I've never seen Creators creating in isolation though, they always do it in threes. It's also a pattern, that trinity, in many other places: when I first saw that pattern I thought I was being tricked by old religious stuff (not that I was ever catholic, I just knew about it) but it turns out it was the other way around, the trinity arrangement was being distorted. Of course, that also could be virus distortion and blah blah blah; so I triangulate things.

I find no assistance whatsoever in the no-mind philosophy- to me, it feels like death of the worse kind, like silently submitting to the gas chambers of the spirit. Which to me feels exactly like virus and what virus would want- just like the Matrix, endless miles of blank, empty minds inhabiting energy bodies, although in the matrix it was portrayed that those minds needed to be fed an illusion in order to be useful, but if you're going for numbers to make up for quality that's not so at all, which is what seems to be the current pattern.

It's curious, isn't it, that the no-mind advocates the ultimate sleepwalking? That even consciousness of Self is undesirable, a trap, a trick. Huh. Here's my response to that.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_OuWM7kOWQM8/TPxEFum2asI/AAAAAAAACtw/4M4L0QNl4GU/s400/29056.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m37gs7kXYB1r4lufio1_500.jpg

http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b429/iGod12345/schwabepic01.jpg

http://www.americanneopaganism.com/lantz-archeon-tarot-priestess.jpg

http://thedougjonesexperience.com/panbehind~3.jpg

It reminds me of the Buffy episode where in one reality she's in the Buffyverse, and in another she's in a psychiatric ward with her concerned family around her and a bunch of doctor's trying to break her out of her 'illusion'- at the end of the episode she chooses the Buffyverse and the image of her griefstricken family as the doctor informed them that there was nothing they could do, she was 'gone' was really interesting. That's what I see happening here- and it reminds me further of what the Creators recently told me about the power of Choice and that *all* of Creation flows from this power, in making choices. I saw universes revealed and dissolved by this power; in a way, I'm watching it happening now, because there is also much power in the choice to make no choice- and those who refuse to make any choice at all, get their choices made for them by those who are willing to choose.

I'm a Creator, that's what I'm choosing to be. Others get to choose exactly what they wish to choose, including no-mind, *and* that's another choice, so in choosing they can't get to that space. Endless chasing of tails, leaving the creative energy there for someone else to use- and sometimes, those who would use it aren't the friendliest of beings either.

So in the end, I'm choosing my 'Verse, consciously, and gathering those around me who want to travel that path and are willing to triangulate together, with a view to

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-r4FErbpcPyA/T6mSdc5ZpKI/AAAAAAAABKA/DCSmgaWcX0s/s1600/jack-sparrow.jpg

seeing what folderol we can get up to.

Even though Boromir's idea was stupid, it had its high points. Perhaps not for Frodo, this is true.

[another bob]

Sorry, Songs, but what you have described above as "no-mind" is actually one of the pit-fall states warned about in the classic Zen literature. Had you been involved in proper training with a qualified guide at the time, they would have likely been able to help wake you up from one of the delusional conditions often confused with "no-mind" by those who wander into such stagnant states unprepared. I've personally seen a lot of that over the years, especially in newbies at meditation who are trying to storm the gates of heaven by plunging into their fantasy of the path, and so have come to recognize the symptoms when it is described, as you have above. True no-mind is simply non-dwelling mind, which clings to neither polarity, and so is free to act spontaneously, without being burdened by fantasies or bound by pre-conceived notions, and is nothing like the empty blankness you have confused it with.

:yo:

[PurpleLama]

Detachment only comes when a greater attachment comes along (to whats eternal, real), and it arises out of what for lack of a better term I will refer to as transcendental compassion. What I see in all this doesn't intersect with with anything like nihilism at all. What is being referred to as no mind in zen has nothing to do with the catatonic state of a damaged psyche, it has to do with the removal of all that hampers us from being what we really are, seeing what is without all the filters of the ego mind. Nothing in this takes the Creative Forces away from us, rather it points to intersecting with it far more directly. I understand that you've made some pretty powerful negative associations with some eastern and western mainstream religions, and so have I, but I didn't just throw the baby out with the bathwater, either. Without walking through the places of pure awareness, all this would just be words. Having the experience, however, I have no use for philosophy, either. I do, very much I do, love having these conversations with other individuals of all sorts of paths, unending amusement, for me, and it almost always leads to the same place, except for those who just really don't want it to, and that's cool, too.

[Fred Steeves]

True no-mind is simply non-dwelling mind, which clings to neither polarity, and so is free to act spontaneously, without being burdened by fantasies or bound by pre-conceived notions, and is nothing like the empty blankness you have confused it with.


I was treated to an official, all silent Buddhist weekend retreat here locally just under a year ago. It was rented at a Catholic Monastary in a beautiful location by a longstanding group of the regular Buddhist practitioners. Flowing river out back laden with fish, huge ancient oaks dripping with moss all over, and even one of those labyrinths under an ancient oak or two that you can aimlessly meander through. I especially enjoyed that one!!!

The first 24 hours I thoroughly enjoyed. The silence, the wisdoms shared from the group 'guru', the shared energy from a room full of deep meditators, and even the added mental luxury of the sound of distant rumbling thunder late the first night.(That was awesome) It wasn't until some time after the of course silent and vegetarian breakfast the next morning, that a rather disturbing thought began creeping it's way into my fragile eggshell mind. "There's something very wrong with what this supposedly wise group leader is telling his people".

It was basically a constant drumbeat of "no mind", but meaning literally scrub your mind of ALL thought but "inbreath, outbreath". Any psychic type inklings? "Forget it, inbreath, outbreath". By the time we went home Sunday evening I was enduring mental claustrophobia. I even pulled an older woman aside just before we all left, to tell her I thought this man's advice to ignore her personal innermost promptings, in lieu of thinking "breath in, breath out", was ludicrous.

You know what the strangest part of the whole deal was though? Over dinner out that Sunday evening, the person, who is a regular in the group and paid for my weekend, insisted to no end I give my honest opinion about the 'guru'. When pressed against the wall, and no politically savvy comment was going to suffice, I finally had to be brutally honest and answer: "I'm sorry, but this man strikes me as arrogant, and he has nothing to teach me".

Maybe that sounds arrogant in itself, but it was the truth.

[PurpleLama]

Fifty nine guests.

*waves*

[another bob]

True no-mind is simply non-dwelling mind, which clings to neither polarity, and so is free to act spontaneously, without being burdened by fantasies or bound by pre-conceived notions, and is nothing like the empty blankness you have confused it with.


I was treated to an official, all silent Buddhist weekend retreat here locally just under a year ago. It was rented at a Catholic Monastary in a beautiful location by a longstanding group of the regular Buddhist practitioners. Flowing river out back laden with fish, huge ancient oaks dripping with moss all over, and even one of those labyrinths under an ancient oak or two that you can aimlessly meander through. I especially enjoyed that one!!!

The first 24 hours I thoroughly enjoyed. The silence, the wisdoms shared from the group 'guru', the shared energy from a room full of deep meditators, and even the added mental luxury of the sound of distant rumbling thunder late the first night.(That was awesome) It wasn't until some time after the of course silent and vegetarian breakfast the next morning, that a rather disturbing thought began creeping it's way into my fragile eggshell mind. "There's something very wrong with what this supposedly wise group leader is telling his people".

It was basically a constant drumbeat of "no mind", but meaning literally scrub your mind of ALL thought but "inbreath, outbreath". Any psychic type inklings? "Forget it, inbreath, outbreath". By the time we went home Sunday evening I was enduring mental claustrobia. I even pulled an older woman aside just before we all left, to tell her I thought this man's advice to ignore her personal innermost promptings, in lieu of thinking "breath in, breath out", was ludicrous.

You know what the strangest part of the whole deal was though? Over dinner out that Sunday evening, the person who is a regular in the group and paid for my weekend, insisted to no end I give my honest opinion about the 'guru'. When pressed against the wall, and no politically savvy comment was going to suffice, I finally had to be brutally honest and answer: "I'm sorry, but this man strikes me as arrogant, and he has nothing to teach me".

Maybe that sounds arrogant in itself, but it was the truth.

Hiya Fred!

Many so-called Buddhist teachers I've encountered over more than 4 decades of Buddhist practice were not qualified to be teaching, imo. In any generation, there are very few who are truly mature in their own practice, and of those, there are even less who can communicate coherently. I feel lucky to have met a couple of good ones, so I developed a certain standard by which to measure, in that regard.
I also spent my early years with Catholics, and never met one priest out of hundreds who was a psychologically well-developed human being. Moreover, I've met plenty of Hindus and Neo-Hindus, New Agers, atheists, shamans, and assorted philosophers, preachers, and salespeople for this or that bit of fantasy being pawned off as truth, and have rarely found any among them that were not simply full of sh*t. I have stayed away from the whole bunch for the last decade, and that has suited me quite nicely.
Frankly, I get more out of sitting in my garden these days than I ever did in most of the venues in which I once participated. Fortunately, the few authentic guides I was graced to encounter served my own practice well enough that I've been able to take what they shared with me and work with it. They never really did anything but point me back to myself, for which I am truly grateful. Of course, my best teacher has been my Beloved, for had my heart not been opened, none of the rest would have been worth a damn anyway.

:yo:

[Playdo of Ataraxas]

I'm a little late on the draw for Jesus pics, but I didn't see this one, so what the hell.......

[Carmody]

Sorry, Songs, but what you have described above as "no-mind" is actually one of the pit-fall states warned about in the classic Zen literature. Had you been involved in proper training with a qualified guide at the time, they would have likely been able to help wake you up from one of the delusional conditions often confused with "no-mind" by those who wander into such stagnant states unprepared. I've personally seen a lot of that over the years, especially in newbies at meditation who are trying to storm the gates of heaven by plunging into their fantasy of the path, and so have come to recognize the symptoms when it is described, as you have above. True no-mind is simply non-dwelling mind, which clings to neither polarity, and so is free to act spontaneously, without being burdened by fantasies or bound by pre-conceived notions, and is nothing like the empty blankness you have confused it with.

:yo:

Ditto!

Ignore all the inner bitching, until the darned thing stills itself. slowly ease into it....

I wandered into it by myself, and simply spent the time letting the inner paisley wallpaper insanity work itself out. It too shall pass, I reasoned.

Before I began, I understood that this was not just dimensional, not just spiritual, it was physical.....and the physical mind takes time to re-wire.

therefore..I waited it out and spent the time ingraining the new channels... the new ways which were merely old..lost ones. Ones that were atrophied, from disuse.

[songsfortheotherkind]

Detachment only comes when a greater attachment comes along (to whats eternal, real), and it arises out of what for lack of a better term I will refer to as transcendental compassion. What I see in all this doesn't intersect with with anything like nihilism at all. What is being referred to as no mind in zen has nothing to do with the catatonic state of a damaged psyche, it has to do with the removal of all that hampers us from being what we really are, seeing what is without all the filters of the ego mind. Nothing in this takes the Creative Forces away from us, rather it points to intersecting with it far more directly. I understand that you've made some pretty powerful negative associations with some eastern and western mainstream religions, and so have I, but I didn't just throw the baby out with the bathwater, either. Without walking through the places of pure awareness, all this would just be words. Having the experience, however, I have no use for philosophy, either. I do, very much I do, love having these conversations with other individuals of all sorts of paths, unending amusement, for me, and it almost always leads to the same place, except for those who just really don't want it to, and that's cool, too.

I'm blipping in and out today, thanks so much for your perspective and I'm looking forward to sitting down and replying.

I do get the expansive state, I go there a lot, I meditate a lot, and I have different experiences in the meditative states. I don't have the experience of throwing any baby out at all. :) I just know what I don't like and there are elements of that thinking that, if one takes it to its conclusion, there is the state and experiences Fred talks about. Different strokes for different folks, and different realms if that's how it works out.

I don't consider that my utter disinterest in the states mentioned means I'm somehow deluded, distorted or deficient. *dances*

[another bob]

I'm a little late on the draw for Jesus pics, but I didn't see this one, so what the hell.......




http://i45.tinypic.com/r9pgew.jpg

[Playdo of Ataraxas]

What I saw when I read *dances*

[another bob]

Ignore all the inner bitching, until the darned things still itself. slowly ease into it....

I wandered into it by myself, and simply spent the time letting the inner paisley wallpaper insanity work itself out. It too shall pass, I reasoned.

Before I began, I understood that this was not just dimensional, not just spiritual, it was physical.....and the physical mind takes time to re-wire.

therefore..I waited it out and spent the time ingraining the new channels... the new ways which were merely old..lost ones. Ones that were atrophied, from disuse.

Brother, you have uncommonly sharp intuiton -- most are not so blessed, and end up at the mercy of fools. That in itself can also be a blessing, since it shows one where not to go, but unfortunately, such lessons usually come with a hefty price tag in terms of damage to the psyche.

:yo:

[Playdo of Ataraxas]

In my earliest, nascent attempts at meditation, I sought what Fred eloquently described as a mind-scrub of all thoughts. I found that quite unachievable. Maybe my natural ADD brain. What became natural to me, was to direct my meditation towards a useful, selfless end, a contemplative prayer of sorts. Meaning, I realized I was here to use my meditative ability as a form of prayer and action. As a builder, carpenter, tinkerer, and Capricorn, I prefer to be active even in stillness. I find that I am wired to extend an innate ability, which was only discovered through trial and error, to serve others and the world at large. By concentrating on affecting positive change on a small scale at first (my immediate environment), I realized that I could affect conscious change on a large scale (reference to the dance of Shiva, pictured in the post above). It was then that I became who I am and who I am continuing to evolve to be: my higher self that is ONE with all and that has always been. I found myself, so to say.

Bob, I read an earlier post of yours that I agree with regarding the non-necessity of performing an ascetic asana position to meditate. This was also one of my earlier, neophyte attempts at meditation and self-discovery. It hurt my knees, and created soreness. I like to sit much as you are in your avatar picture. This naturally evolved to maintaining that state while walking or working, constantly. Though, to be honest, it is difficult and seemingly impossible for me to remain there always, given the rigors of family and career, though that is what I strive for. The stillness Carmody mentions, I believe, can be maintained while in motion.

I reckon what I'm trying to say is that meditation, to me, isn't about Self, but about others.

The best way to equate what my earliest attempts at achieving the mind-scrub meditative state would be the picture below. This relates, less or more, the type of images that would cloud and distract my mind.

P.S. This thread is new to me, and a lot fun, and very rewarding! Thanks Songs.

[another bob]

In my earliest, nascent attempts at meditation, I sought what Fred eloquently described as a mind-scrub of all thoughts. I found that quite unachievable. Maybe my natural ADD brain.

Hiya Play!

There is nothing wrong with your brain, and unfortunately there has been a great misdirection circulating around that meditation is about some sort of mind scrub. True meditation is not anything of the sort. If it were, dead logs would be awakened beings, eh. Properly understood, thoughts are not the problem. The problem is fixation, or identifying with certain thoughts to the point that consciousness forgets its true nature and takes itself to be the transient thought, idea, or interpretation on perception. It is this identification or fixation where suffering is born, based on a simple case of mistaken identity.
In true meditation, thoughts are allowed to arise and dissolve without clinging or avoidance. We are not the thoughts, but their witness. Actually, we are not even the witness, but this takes some depth of insight to directly cognize. Attempts to manipulate thouhts (ie scrub them) are just more thoughts. As the process continues, without identifying with thoughts, they will eventually subside to some extent, and a kind of clarity emerges. By using this clarity to go to the source of thought, and abide there, with sincerity and persistence, a revelation is possible, which consists of a dawning recognition of who and what we actually are prior to all mental fabrication and presumed identity.
Even that is not the real purpose, however. It's actually just the preliminaries, because having directly glimpsed our true nature, we are now faced with the challenge of embodying that insight in the way we behave in the world, and in our relations. Even though we may have had a profound glimpse, we are likely still carrying around a lot of neurotic baggage, which has to be seen through and released, and that's not going to happen on a meditation cushion, but in the marketplace, in the midst of relationship. The value of the meditiative insight is that, if properly supported, it acts like a steering mechanism, allowing us to act authentically, without the superimposition of fantasies and false self-images. In other words, it aids us in being who and what we really are.

[songsfortheotherkind]

Sorry, Songs, but what you have described above as "no-mind" is actually one of the pit-fall states warned about in the classic Zen literature. Had you been involved in proper training with a qualified guide at the time, they would have likely been able to help wake you up from one of the delusional conditions often confused with "no-mind" by those who wander into such stagnant states unprepared. I've personally seen a lot of that over the years, especially in newbies at meditation who are trying to storm the gates of heaven by plunging into their fantasy of the path, and so have come to recognize the symptoms when it is described, as you have above. True no-mind is simply non-dwelling mind, which clings to neither polarity, and so is free to act spontaneously, without being burdened by fantasies or bound by pre-conceived notions, and is nothing like the empty blankness you have confused it with.

:yo:

I sat with this reply and wondered, is there any way that I am going to be able to say what I want to say without it being viewed in some negative way? And I thought, probably not, given what I want to say, no matter how carefully I craft the language. So I went with honesty.

And with that you very politely and nicely suggest, yet again, that there's something delusional about my perspective. Which in itself echoes the issues that I have with those who follow the particular philosophies that you mention: somehow, those of us who don't agree with them, or experience them vastly differently, or aren't interested in them, are somehow defective, or lower vibration, or whatever.

I see what's happen', thar. Um, no thanks. The language itself sticks out a mile, but the subtle-and not so subtle- insinuations are the real kicker. You've done that before, a couple of times now, and I'm bowing politely and withdrawing. I didn't ask for lessons in the no-mind, I certainly wasn't asking for some kind of negative diagnosis, I am not interested in the space of no-mind and I'm not interested in the philosophy that those like me are somehow deficient because we don't agree. I told you awhile ago that I was keeping my distance from you and now I'm restating it, politely and with full sui generis: I am following a different path, one that is not in any way at all inferior to yours. It's different, utterly, and in no way inferior. I'm not interested in gurus, heteronomy of any kind, or homogeny. I don't need agreement. I don't agree with you. I'll pass on the superior tone put downs, thanks, no matter in what flowery terms they're couched or what gurus are quoted to support the position.

I'm more than delighted that you are here sharing this space. I'm not thrilled with the judgements, but that happens. We'll see, in this micro experiment, if it's indeed possible for Beings of vastly different perspectives to co-habit the same 'Verse, or if they really do need separate spaces to play in, which is what my recent musings have been about. Otherwise, it's a continual repeat of the old, old, boring stories of this group is superior to that group, this skin superior to that skin, this religion/philosophy superior, blibble wibble, and hasn't that been done to death? I would have thought that those following a philosophy that supports attachment to nothing would have had little interest in creating hierarchies, but there it is- oddly, also reflected in every religious expression, both eastern, western and inbetween: the hierarchies of heaven and earth- I think the only one I've ever heard about that isn't a hierarchy on this plane are the Quakers, but then their heaven is.

Go figure. Hierarchy, domination and control, on even the most subtle of planes. Now why *is* that, I wonder? What kind of Beings are interested in that, really?

[songsfortheotherkind]

P.S. This thread is new to me, and a lot fun, and very rewarding! Thanks Songs.

Thanks for the post, and you're welcome. :)

Also, the first time I saw that Lionel Ritchie poster I cracked up laughing. Truly awesome. :D

[Debra]

Hello my Pub,

I see I have some catching up to do.

Just wanted to SHOUT YOU ALL A DRINK while you wait for me to go powder my brain.

*I'll be floating around *
http://allfinearts.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/beautiful-2ddrawings-2d39.jpg

[Curt]

Sorry, Songs, but what you have described above as "no-mind" is actually one of the pit-fall states warned about in the classic Zen literature. Had you been involved in proper training with a qualified guide at the time, they would have likely been able to help wake you up from one of the delusional conditions often confused with "no-mind" by those who wander into such stagnant states unprepared. I've personally seen a lot of that over the years, especially in newbies at meditation who are trying to storm the gates of heaven by plunging into their fantasy of the path, and so have come to recognize the symptoms when it is described, as you have above. True no-mind is simply non-dwelling mind, which clings to neither polarity, and so is free to act spontaneously, without being burdened by fantasies or bound by pre-conceived notions, and is nothing like the empty blankness you have confused it with.

:yo:

I sat with this reply and wondered, is there any way that I am going to be able to say what I want to say without it being viewed in some negative way? And I thought, probably not, given what I want to say, no matter how carefully I craft the language. So I went with honesty.

And with that you very politely and nicely suggest, yet again, that there's something delusional about my perspective. Which in itself echoes the issues that I have with those who follow the particular philosophies that you mention: somehow, those of us who don't agree with them, or experience them vastly differently, or aren't interested in them, are somehow defective, or lower vibration, or whatever.

I see what's happen', thar. Um, no thanks. The language itself sticks out a mile, but the subtle-and not so subtle- insinuations are the real kicker. You've done that before, a couple of times now, and I'm bowing politely and withdrawing. I didn't ask for lessons in the no-mind, I certainly wasn't asking for some kind of negative diagnosis, I am not interested in the space of no-mind and I'm not interested in the philosophy that those like me are somehow deficient because we don't agree. I told you awhile ago that I was keeping my distance from you and now I'm restating it, politely and with full sui generis: I am following a different path, one that is not in any way at all inferior to yours. It's different, utterly, and in no way inferior. I'm not interested in gurus, heteronomy of any kind, or homogeny. I don't need agreement. I don't agree with you. I'll pass on the superior tone put downs, thanks, no matter in what flowery terms they're couched or what gurus are quoted to support the position.

I'm more than delighted that you are here sharing this space. I'm not thrilled with the judgements, but that happens. We'll see, in this micro experiment, if it's indeed possible for Beings of vastly different perspectives to co-habit the same 'Verse, or if they really do need separate spaces to play in, which is what my recent musings have been about. Otherwise, it's a continual repeat of the old, old, boring stories of this group is superior to that group, this skin superior to that skin, this religion/philosophy superior, blibble wibble, and hasn't that been done to death? I would have thought that those following a philosophy that supports attachment to nothing would have had little interest in creating hierarchies, but there it is- oddly, also reflected in every religious expression, both eastern, western and inbetween: the hierarchies of heaven and earth- I think the only one I've ever heard about that isn't a hierarchy on this plane are the Quakers, but then their heaven is.

Go figure. Hierarchy, domination and control, on even the most subtle of planes. Now why *is* that, I wonder? What kind of Beings are interested in that, really?



Yep.

Songsy,

Now that deserves a slow clap.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhTiJEYqqY8

[Calz]

Hello my Pub,

I see I have some catching up to do.

Just wanted to SHOUT YOU ALL A DRINK while you wait for me to go powder my brain.

*I'll be floating around *


http://allfinearts.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/beautiful-2ddrawings-2d39.jpg


16452

http://www.integrativepsychiatry.net/_uploaded_files/tn-vital_brain_powder_brain_supplementproducts1820promo_pic.jpg

http://cuteoverload.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/tumblr_kzghx9jiwh1qz72j6o1_500.gif?w=500&h=348&h=348

[Fred Steeves]

It's actually just the preliminaries, because having directly glimpsed our true nature, we are now faced with the challenge of embodying that insight in the way we behave in the world, and in our relations. Even though we may have had a profound glimpse, we are likely still carrying around a lot of neurotic baggage, which has to be seen through and released, and that's not going to happen on a meditation cushion, but in the marketplace, in the midst of relationship. The value of the meditiative insight is that, if properly supported, it acts like a steering mechanism, allowing us to act authentically, without the superimposition of fantasies and false self-images. In other words, it aids us in being who and what we really are.

Hi Bob, I can almost hear Don Juan describing the art of stalking. I seldom formally meditate any more, although I certainly have nothing against the practice. There seemed to be a certain point where subconsciously anyway, I realized that I could morph the practice into everyday life you also described. It's more like constant contemplation, or constant as can be like Playdo relayed.(LOL)

And yes, once the authentic self is even glimpsed out of the corner of the eye, no other way of being will do. IMHO stalking is the supreme definition for this state of mind. Not in an obsessive way by any means, but more like the subtle corrections we make with the steering wheel while driving. Although sticking with the driving analogy, there are also the occassions where we have allowed ourselves to become totally distracted, and we're at risk of mowing down a pedestrian if we don't get back on the road very quickly.

These moments are very humbling, and I've recently discovered that this is where compassion plays a key role in things. Compassion and forgiveness for ourselves, and our moments of failure...Deep compassion...And the funny thing about that is, the more compassion and forgiveness we can muster for our own inevitable failures, the easier it becomes to practice it with others as well.

Interesting how that works. Coincidence? I think not.:)

Cheers,
Fred

[songsfortheotherkind]

There seemed to be a certain point where subconsciously anyway, I realized that I could morph the practice into everyday life you also described. It's more like constant contemplation, or constant as can be like Playdo relayed.(LOL)

And yes, once the authentic self is even glimpsed out of the corner of the eye, no other way of being will do. IMHO stalking is the supreme definition for this state of mind. Not in an obsessive way by any means, but more like the subtle corrections we make with the steering wheel while driving. Although sticking with the driving analogy, there are also the occassions where we have allowed ourselves to become totally distracted, and we're at risk of mowing down a pedestrian if we don't get back on the road very quickly.


This is really cool, Fred, it reminds me of what I have been exploring with my compass experience, that constant correction back towards the signal. That's how I'm experiencing it, anyway. :)

Thanks for sharing your perspective. :)

[PurpleLama]

1Ksb1z3sPNI

[another bob]

And with that you very politely and nicely suggest, yet again, that there's something delusional about my perspective. Which in itself echoes the issues that I have with those who follow the particular philosophies that you mention: somehow, those of us who don't agree with them, or experience them vastly differently, or aren't interested in them, are somehow defective, or lower vibration, or whatever.

I'm sorry you have taken it that way, and chosen a defensive posture again. To be succinct, when I see repeated misconceptions about such an important subject being posted here, I feel moved to speak up and clarify the matter. Regardless of notions about "sui generis", we do need to discriminate in the objective world, and your take on "no-mind" is simply incorrect. If someone insisted on driving on the wrong side of the road, and called it "sui generis", I would, out of compassion, feel moved to point out the error. What I have done here is of the same nature, since true "no-mind" is nothing like you described. There are those reading here who may take your word about the matter, and that would be unfortunate.


I would have thought that those following a philosophy that supports attachment to nothing would have had little interest in creating hierarchies, but there it is- oddly, also reflected in every religious expression, both eastern, western and inbetween: the hierarchies of heaven and earth- I think the only one I've ever heard about that isn't a hierarchy on this plane are the Quakers, but then their heaven is.

This is all purely your projection and continued conflation, Songs. No hierachies were mentioned or discussed in my comments -- simply setting the record straight on a misdirection regarding meditative states.



Go figure. Hierarchy, domination and control, on even the most subtle of planes. Now why *is* that, I wonder? What kind of Beings are interested in that, really?

It seems you have quite an assortment of steaming strawmen to drag out, which nevertheless still amount to blowing smoke around the issue, rather than clarifying it. When I first encountered your writing, I found it refreshing, but more and more, what I'm seeing is mostly a wordy adventure in narcissism being passed off as some kind of evolutionary artistic endeavor.
Eyeball to eyeball and heart to heart, I'd say, "Get over yourself!", but I'm afraid that would merely be dismissed as some kind of impingement on your "sui generis signal" at this point, so placing palms together and bowing to all, Bob walks out the Pub door and exits this thread.

:yo:

[Fred Steeves]

Um, Bob...You left the door open...

Anyway, drinks are on me tomorrow. In the meantime
74Kh20Jwi1w

[Curt]

For Songsy....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VppuD1St8Ec

[Fred Steeves]

I can just hear Master Yoda saying, as his eyes narrow: "Beware, strong grow the forces of division". Anybody else been feeling that pull lately?

[Borden]

Unfortunately for Yoda, he'd failed to see his own errors. His errors had essentially forced that division. His blind adherence to the Force rather than the acceptance that the darkness must be integrated and not simply rejected ... played right into the hands of the duality. I reckon by the time the story ended and he'd been alone to dwell on his mistake in that swamp for a while he'd figured that out though. It took Luke, dressed as a Sith, to sort that one out and restore the balance. He didn't do it by navel gazing on Dagobah either.

But I know what you mean, Fred. And Calz ... I meant the other Yoda ... I wasn't having a go at you!

[Mike]

i just read Bob's post (3047) not too long ago, and it's left me a little disturbed, both because he n Songs have fallen out, and also, much to my chagrin, because i agree with a large portion of it.

this has left me in the awkward position of feeling like i'm teaming with an older brother to gang up on my sister, and it's a very unpleasant feeling; i don't like it, but my sui generis is asking me to speak.

Songs, out of everything you've said here on this thread (all 10 trillion words;)) the thing i identify with most is your *vulnerability*, and *the spirit in which you communicate your message*. though you often leave me confused and scratching my head, i felt an immediate kinship with you and a grand affection because i could sense *the space in which you were coming from*. for me this was always more important than any of the things you were writing about. in you, i see a highly traumatized individual, a kindred spirit who is peeling back the layers of the onion one bit at a time. i can identify with this, greatly admire your courage, and frequently find myself wishing i could give you a hug. :kiss3:

and yet, like Bob, there have been times when i've wanted to grab you by the shoulders and shake you, screaming "Get over yourself woman!!!" :) you are a textbook overanalyzer, (it takes one to know one) and i sometimes fear you will mind-virus yourself to an early death. and knowing you, you've probably written your own eulogy, a 30 pound tome of a thing that only 3 people on the entire earth will understand;)

now, i've just went back and read your initial post to Bob, and sort of found myself nodding along, saying 'hmmm, ok, i see where she's coming from there...' and i think what we have here is, using the nomenclature of the thread, a head-butting contest between a sith woman and a jedi knight. as Borden said, the dark is essential, matters just as much as the light, and simply presents a *different* approach to a similar problem.

i just hope you 2 can wrap your light sabres around each other and make nice, cuz the pub just won't be the same without the whole crew participating.

[red_rose]

1Ksb1z3sPNI

omg! I can't believe someone, all the way over in america, has heard of Mclusky!!!

I saw them at a small gig in a pub in Brighton, where i lived at the time. It was stomping! It kicked off massively. I ended up with my arms and legs wrapped around a massive speaker whilst the whole crowd, which was no more than 100 people, writhed and moshed. It was awesome. I overheard the guitarist afterwards, at the bar, say is was the best gig he'd played. The crowd was hungry for Mclusky. It was hilarious. I was standing there, front row, pint in hand, the first riff kicked in, the crowd surged, i was literally levitating with no more pint in my hand. I almost head-butted the guitarist's guitar but swerved and ended up against the speaker!

They've broken up now. They were more successful on the underground scene but couldn't afford to keep going. I think they are now called 'future of the left'.

Awesome tune, you made me day!!

red_rose

Did they play in america? Did you see them?

[Kali Lemorte]

Hello everyone is this an OK place for a newbie to say hi and introduce myself? If not can someone please direct me to the appropriate link? There r so many postings and I tried to search for an introduction post but couldn't find one. Anyway hi everyone I just filled out my profile just in case I look forward to getting to know everyone.

[songsfortheotherkind]

i just read Bob's post (3047) not too long ago, and it's left me a little disturbed, both because he n Songs have fallen out, and also, much to my chagrin, because i agree with a large portion of it.

this has left me in the awkward position of feeling like i'm teaming with an older brother to gang up on my sister, and it's a very unpleasant feeling; i don't like it, but my sui generis is asking me to speak.

Songs, out of everything you've said here on this thread (all 10 trillion words;)) the thing i identify with most is your *vulnerability*, and *the spirit in which you communicate your message*. though you often leave me confused and scratching my head, i felt an immediate kinship with you and a grand affection because i could sense *the space in which you were coming from*. for me this was always more important than any of the things you were writing about. in you, i see a highly traumatized individual, a kindred spirit who is peeling back the layers of the onion one bit at a time. i can identify with this, greatly admire your courage, and frequently find myself wishing i could give you a hug. :kiss3:

and yet, like Bob, there have been times when i've wanted to grab you by the shoulders and shake you, screaming "Get over yourself woman!!!" :) you are a textbook overanalyzer, (it takes one to know one) and i sometimes fear you will mind-virus yourself to an early death. and knowing you, you've probably written your own eulogy, a 30 pound tome of a thing that only 3 people on the entire earth will understand;)

now, i've just went back and read your initial post to Bob, and sort of found myself nodding along, saying 'hmmm, ok, i see where she's coming from there...' and i think what we have here is, using the nomenclature of the thread, a head-butting contest between a sith woman and a jedi knight. as Borden said, the dark is essential, matters just as much as the light, and simply presents a *different* approach to a similar problem.

i just hope you 2 can wrap your light sabres around each other and make nice, cuz the pub just won't be the same without the whole crew participating.

In my response to bob I specifically said I was glad that he was here and I meant it. You were gone for awhile and missed the colossal fallout that Borden and I had, both on the board and privately; a few here knew about the grief and pain I was going through, that he was going through about other things and for awhile it got very messy and incredibly painful.

Just before that time Borden wrote this post http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?42360-Welcome-to-The-Pub-At-the-End-of-the-Universe.&p=479635&viewfull=1#post479635 , the end line of which he says


It doesn't matter what we are, or what we think we are. Or what we angrily think we are not because some chick with horns has come along and said things we don't like. This is Pub Club. Bruises and missing teeth are not a problem. Failure to engage is the only real hurt.

and because of the fundamental elements of our sui generis, we refused to shut the door on each other, although he did slam it vigorously a few times and flung it back open again, to finally rip it off its hinges and then place it carefully and neatly on the wall beside the doorway. I'm actually not a Sith; even though I can look like one at times, it's actually not Sith at all because I'm going for something much, much more co-creative than that- and power in the Creator, not external sense. I am always primarily interested in the co-creation and exploring the sui generis, which makes me too bridge for Sith. We're two beings that love lightsabers but when push comes to shove would never actually use them on one of our own unless utterly necessary- we just battle back and forth and make really cool sound effects noises: well, he makes the noises, I don't- he's so much better at it that I wouldn't bother to embarrass my Self by attempting it. The point of this is, we discovered in each other a Being that was prepared to stand in our sui generis with each other, no matter how opposed that looked, and find the source of the connection signal between us. I have that with a few on this thread- it's a rare signal indeed AND it's what I'm interested in. Borden and I know each other in far more powerful and expansive ways now and we know that in each other, we've discovered a Being that can truly evolve as the connection does its thing. To me, this is the precious thing, not agreement.

I said in my response to bob that I was truly interested to see if Beings with such diametrically opposed views as he and I have could actually get the sui generis happening to the degree that co-habitation was possible. I am truly interested, because of my micro to macro view of things and seeing those patterns played out continuously up and down the frequency. I really do want to see what is possible. So what's possible in this instance is he that he writes something and leaves. Then, in a different aspect of the hologram, Borden doesn't, despite his sometimes epic rages and spontaneous combustions; he seethes, fumes and evolves. I writhe while burning to a crisp and rise again in the next evolution. I'm learning through this to get to the evolution bit without the crispy toasted bit.

To me, there's a difference between saying 'ah, we see things in a profoundly different manner, this is an interesting opportunity' and 'you don't see things my way, this means you are delusional in some way'. I am interested in what is going to truly work to transform the monumental levels of crap and here's how I see it: I'm just some chick with a bunch of perspectives and a connection to a bunch of different realities. I haven't studied for years with gurus. I'm not an expert meditator, I'm not well versed in the philosophical 'wisdoms' of multitudes of individuals, yet me in all my weirdness and loquacity can sit with the differences and weather the process of living into the deep level sui generis that I observe being the only answer to the clusterf*uck that is running the planet. I don't leave the process, even when it feels like I'm committing seppeku, because the process is more important than my resistance. I'm just some chick, so what is it exactly that I'm doing that can p!ss someone so long zen trained off that they leave?


in you, i see a highly traumatized individual

heh, you wouldn't have wanted to meet me in my early 20s then. The idea that anyone would find me traumatised is really strange; to me, there's always going to be evolution, so I wonder do all Beings look traumatised to those that are functioning on different levels? I wouldn't know how to triangulate that, given the level of OMFG! MY EYE! that I experience out in the world. Can you show me what a non-traumatised individual looks like here? That's how I map things, I find different signals and absorb the frequency, going back and forth to 'see' what it is they're doing, and I'd be really interested in meeting someone who has that clear a signal. I'm in connection with others who to me have very non-dissonant signals *and* I know that others experience them as hugely dissonant, so heh, horses for courses.


nd yet, like Bob, there have been times when i've wanted to grab you by the shoulders and shake you, screaming "Get over yourself woman!!!"

then do it, ffs, and SHOW me what you think I'm not seeing! And then, when I am working through it, don't assume it's because I'm defective in some way, or because I'm being adversarial, or because I need to be right about everything or any of the other easy judgements- it's none of those things (although it might be momentarily, and I get my Self out of that pretty quickly because none of them are what I'm truly interested in), it's that I genuinely don't see what you're saying and if I can't SEE the pattern and signal, I'm not going to automatically agree. I'll map it. I don't need agreement! It's the *process* that matters, because in all the billions of different universes that are stumbling around the planet atm, there's precious all agreement and plenty of uproar at the lack of said agreement when what really seems to be the fundamental problem is the erroneous idea that agreement is the thing that's missing. NO, no it's not!! The ability to hold the idea of infinite possibility in one's internal space and not freak out about that is what's missing! Being ok with the infinitely different expression of the choices of others is what's missing! And until we embrace with joy the notion that in a constantly evolving multiverse of infinite possibility there's ALWAYS going to be someone whose view is nothing like ours and hurrah, that's *awesome* and let's celebrate it!! rather than rush in with a diagnosis of some deficiency on their part based on my world view. Which always seems to go down *so* well, as the constant wars here demonstrate.

I'm interested in what works. Sliding virus laden programs around disguised as 'wisdom' doesn't work, no matter who is doing it. I'm just some chick that will say 'hey, the emperor is wearing no clothes', and wondering if others can tell the difference between a clothed and nude emperor. And who will then point out that there is, in fact, no emperor because we're all equal Beings and if he wants to insist that he's emperor, he's utterly free to find Beings that will agree with that, and I'll be over here doing something else.

I know you think I write a lot. This is me constantly slicing off huge chunks of my thought streams. I haven't actually written my own eulogy because why do that when I'm still spooling up? This things I write are nothing compared to what happens when I'm thought streaming: I'm curious as to what will happen when I really let things rip. :D

[Borden]

The tone of this post is not how I usually feel inclined to talk to people, but I wanted to try on this hat for a couple of reasons. If you make it through to the end (I know it's long), hopefully you'll understand why you're not obliged to feel offended. You still can be though if you like. I don't know how your ego works.

To suggest that you have to distill your consciousness into some entity that relinquishes the extraordinary equipment you already have is as primitive as the idea of the Fall. It's a passive-aggressive response to a complex existence and a complex mind that experience this existence. It's an act of cutting one's nose off to spite one's face. It is the emotional answer of a child utterly in the grip of ... wait for it ... the corrupted ego.

You can let the universe happen to you and be a passenger who sophisticates the art of powerlessness ... and you will indeed enjoy the sights of the trip in a new and profound way. This is because you are learning acceptance by stepping back from pointless inner battles. Therefore the senses (both physical and otherwise) are more free to do their thing. Congratulations. But now you are conflating acceptance with passivity. Oops.

When you have done this to its ultimate extent what will you see? Well, I'll tell you. You won't see anything. You will have gone down the cul de sac of yourself while imagining you've done the opposite. Were you expecting to see God? Well, I'm not saying you won't along the way, in a way, even in reflections that you won't associate with what's possible for those who don't go deep as you are doing ... I'm well aware of this. However, if you were able to go deep enough, and if God were actually like that, you would eventually see God shouting at you, "What the f*ck are you doing, you idiot?! Get back out there! I didn't create this universe out of myself just for you to come crawling back to square one! I am not in charge ... you are ... that was the whole bloody point of CREATION!"

No, no ... not Creation as in the religious sense. Creation in which YOU are a creator. Ongoing creation. If you think that existence, the universe - is some established ride, some dance of death with rules and contracts in its experience that you cannot rewrite, then you are betraying the very consciousness of which you are an eternal part and you may as well have not bothered incarnating in the first place. Maybe you should just melt back into the source of all after all, but that's your business, not mine.

Actually, there's more to it than that, which I may as well mention now that I've started. You can be someone who achieves stillness, and who offers the universe their appreciative passivity ... and the universe will still happily eat your experience while you watch it do so with 'enlightened' vision. No story is wasted on the universe. If you don't want to embrace what you came here for ... then the universe is perfectly happy to digest you as information, as process material. What the universe wants is for us to create. But hens lay a lot of eggs. Most don't hatch. It's all good.

The mind-virus is NOT the ego. The ego is a vehicle it uses, a doorway - but there are other doorways. The mind-virus would have you believe that the very equipment it infiltrates and uses against you is inherently corrupt, but it is not. That is a trick.

Make no mistake - I am not saying that the ego is not heavily corrupted by the virus. Quite the opposite. But the ego is a vital part of the array with which we find ourselves blessed as physical, thinking, feeling beings. If your body has a disease is the solution to leave your body?

There is a vast, vast difference between recognizing that consciousness and our consensus reality have problems ... and how you choose to respond to that recognition. You have NOT come on holiday by mistake.

I don't care what the most revered practitioners of disappearing into infinity say, and no amount of quotes by them intimidate me. In fact the more sophisticated and profound their adherence to the law of cosmic passivity, and the more famous they are for it, the more mobbed by acolytes who can do nothing but follow - the more ridiculous they are to me.

I would say exactly the same things to any of them fearlessly. I would also listen to what they said back. If you think that this is because I have some out of control ego and am arrogant and hubristic then you underestimate my intelligence. I know when I'm being arrogant and hubristic, and this is not that. That side of me is something I'm not foolish enough to try to kill or silence, because I know it has things to explore. But this is not that. This is my passion, my truth, and it has been examined closely from every conceivable angle over many years, and this process continues.

I'm not prepared to explain it here, but I have had the rare privilege of knowing the virus in a highly unusual and terrifying way for nearly eighteen years. Had I not evolved in my understanding pretty damned rapidly from one bout to the next I would not be alive today. I'm not exaggerating here. If I explained it to you, you would fully understand, and like everyone else who I've told, you'd probably do that aghast, mystified expression that I've seen on a number of occasions now. The one that silently says, "why are you still alive? How did you not commit suicide?" But that's my business. I just want you to know that when I talk about the mind-virus, the ego, the self, and the whole business of creation I didn't just pull it out of my arse this afternoon.

And do not make the mistake of thinking that I was forced into some blind adherence to a line of thinking by my trauma, as is so often the case with religious types for instance. It's quite the opposite actually. I never found a convenient cubby hole and that's half the point. It's a complicated and harrowing story, and not one I'm going to tell here, but I've had to spend extended periods - weeks, months - prepared moment by waking moment not just for death, but for something far worse to happen at any instant.

There was NOWHERE to go other than utter acceptance, and the abandonment of my ego. In fact I had no choice in the matter. So I went down that road, and it was a life or death crash course. Going down that road was an insight, not a destination. It was a part of my evolution. When I hear people wax smug about meditation and perceiving the stillness of their essential selves beyond the mind I often feel like the veteran of a bloody war watching children play with toy guns. No, I am not belittling anyone else's pain, not at all. Neither am I belittling anyone who has posted in this thread. I'll get to that in a minute. What I'm saying is that the direct conflict I got into with the virus was brilliantly inescapable, and I'll repeat - if I explained it to you, you would fully understand.

I also want to let anyone know who cares ... if someone posts here who seems to be a self-appointed authority, you are under no obligation to take them at their word on that authority. This includes me and this post. My ego has had some input into this post, as has yours in reading it. Whoever you are. I've written in this style to make a point.

I am very tired of being talked down to by people who mistake my respectful openness to their experience as a lack of insight into my own. If I were insecure about my intelligence, my philosophies or my evolving observations I wouldn't have posted half the stuff I have, I'd never be silly, and I would probably be guarded and engaged in a game of concealing my weaknesses. I'd probably adopt the tone of a teacher in my posts, God help me.

One last thing. Followers of this thread will probably assume that I am attacking a couple of specific posters. This is absolutely not the case. Recent events here triggered something in me, sure, but the people you're thinking of don't deserve an assault like this, of course. Besides, there are people in my life outside the forum who've recently helped inspire this too. No, this is my assault on a species of thinking, not an attack on people. And I credit the people you might assume I'm attacking with more complexity and depth than the broad strokes of this post might suggest. I just want to make that clear.

[Mike]

do you *really* think it's so strange that one would view you as traumitized, Songs, given what you've written here in these last few months?;) you can dress this up verbally any way you like, but come on. anyhoo, it wasn't intended as an insult in any way, shape or form -- just an observation. hell, *i'm* traumitized! if you don't like that description, can we at least agree that you've endured a set of unfortunate circumstances that have left you emotionally wounded? anyway, who cares? that's not really important.

i should point out that i don't think you are *defective* in any way shape or form. also, i've almost *never* seen you adversarial; quite the contrary, you are almost always kind and patient and lovely. nor do you always need to be right; you are very open to other's opinions. where are you getting these ideas anyway, you goof?;) i've never come close to implying this -- will we have to be changing your name to Strawmanofanother kind?:p

as far as the 'mind virus' goes, i think you've dropped some real gems regarding it, but i also think that finally it can be a bit much. in my mind, the constant harping on the virus may be worse that the virus itself! ever had a bad acid trip? second guessing yourself constantly? paranoid? if you keep this up pretty soon it'll be like that -- one day you'll wake up and you won't be clear if you really have to take a dump or if it's just the 'virus' playing parlor tricks on your colon. know what i mean, Songsy?

hey, have we just had our first argument? is the honeymoon over? ;) it doesn't matter, i still think you're tops. wanna be friends again?

thing is, if i can't be honest in this thread it's over for 'ol Chinaski. i'll have to quit the forum, do the "i'm leaving" thread and all that,..."sorry Avalonians, it's been great knowing you all, and it's with great regret that i announce my departure...";)

[songsfortheotherkind]

[I]The tone of this post is not how I usually feel inclined to talk to people, but I wanted to try on this hat for a couple of reasons. If you make it through to the end (I know it's long)-

I did make it, and it's awesome, and I want so much to respond, and I have madness going on here in terms of house inspections, and trying to keep a million things together. I'll write in the peace time.

*hugs*

[Calz]

But I know what you mean, Fred. And Calz ... I meant the other Yoda ... I wasn't having a go at you!


*Other* Yoda???

Imposter there is???

Hungry I am ... deal with him after dinner I will ...


http://www.planet-zhadum.com/convs/cotg/images/01JMC010_Yoda.jpg

[another bob]

Apparently, there needs to be some clarification. I am not leaving the Avalon Forum, merely dropping out of this thread. It is certainly not out of anger. Why get pissed off over an internet thread? No, I am withdrawing from this particular thread because life is precious, and I am determined not to waste a minute of it.

Simply put, it's only the virus itself that will go on endlessly about the virus, because it is endlessly fascinated with itself and all its dreamy permutations. Moreover, it will make every effort to misdirect attention by any means at its disposal, even to the point of making up stories and attributing positions that have no basis in actual reality. The virus loves to create strawman arguements with which to joust, but I'm not buying. As Mr. Scott once noted: " Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

Well, it's all fine, but I am simply not interested in reading long tracts of self-enamored personal fantasies masqeurading as virus-hacking, nor do I wish to put another ounce of energy into that whole scene. There are other venues at Avalon where I will continue participating, such as the Here and Now Village thread, where many of you visit too. Best wishes to all!


In pursuit of knowledge, every day something is added.
In the practice of the Tao, every day something is dropped.

~Tao Te Ching


:yo:

[Mike]

god damn you Borden, i have a life to live, mate! you guys are killing me with these monster posts!;)

i'm out the door at the moment, but will check it out when i return. i've thanked it ahead of time cuz i'm sure it's brilliant.

[Calz]

this has left me in the awkward position of feeling like i'm teaming with an older brother to gang up on my sister, and it's a very unpleasant feeling; i don't like it, but my sui generis is asking me to speak.





Simple answer (from my simple mind) is that we *all* have certain issues to work on ... or else why would we have incarnated here of all places???

Universe is certainly not a static entity ... always changing ... ever morphing.

Circular perhaps rather than linear ... but even so ...

Always good to remain open minded enough for self examination.

If in a blinding flash of brilliance someone suddenly knew *everything* ... in the next instant something will have changed and the process would begin anew.

As always IMHO

http://cdn.comicartfans.com/Images/Category_13911/subcat_27615/yoda-Sanda.jpg

[PurpleLama]

in finishing your monster post, borden, I could hear carly simon just a singin away

"your so vain, you probably think this post is about you, don't you, don't you"

[Borden]

Not sure how to take that, PL ... so I'll take it well.

Monster post? Give me a break ... haven't you seen some of Songsy's?!

[songsfortheotherkind]

do you *really* think it's so strange that one would view you as traumitized, Songs, given what you've written here in these last few months?;) you can dress this up verbally any way you like, but come on. anyhoo, it wasn't intended as an insult in any way, shape or form -- just an observation. hell, *i'm* traumitized! if you don't like that description, can we at least agree that you've endured a set of unfortunate circumstances that have left you emotionally wounded? anyway, who cares? that's not really important.

i should point out that i don't think you are *defective* in any way shape or form. also, i've almost *never* seen you adversarial; quite the contrary, you are almost always kind and patient and lovely. nor do you always need to be right; you are very open to other's opinions. where are you getting these ideas anyway, you goof?;) i've never come close to implying this -- will we have to be changing your name to Strawmanofanother kind?:p

as far as the 'mind virus' goes, i think you've dropped some real gems regarding it, but i also think that finally it can be a bit much. in my mind, the constant harping on the virus may be worse that the virus itself! ever had a bad acid trip? second guessing yourself constantly? paranoid? if you keep this up pretty soon it'll be like that -- one day you'll wake up and you won't be clear if you really have to take a dump or if it's just the 'virus' playing parlor tricks on your colon. know what i mean, Songsy?

hey, have we just had our first argument? is the honeymoon over? ;) it doesn't matter, i still think you're tops. wanna be friends again?

thing is, if i can't be honest in this thread it's over for 'ol Chinaski. i'll have to quit the forum, do the "i'm leaving" thread and all that,..."sorry Avalonians, it's been great knowing you all, and it's with great regret that i announce my departure...";)

argument? lol. not at all. I didn't think you were saying I was defective at all, it's the broadspeak I do when I'm holding more than one thing in the space. I keep iterating that my personal and broadspeak parameters have different language, and I really do focus things differently if I'm being personal. So not personal.

You are totally free to tell me that my perspective is a bit much! I told you in the previous message to you, I don't need agreement. Why not try that out? See if I'm talking sh!t, then feel free to do with that whatever you want. I won't always like what you write either *and* so what? That has nothing to do with us as individuals. Which is my whole point. About non-agreement *and* being able to share a planet with each other without the urge to throw bombs, or create Great Walls, or hierarchies. That's my thing. You may or may not be interested in that.

I'm actually having an increasingly awesome time with the mapping. My life is actually getting shinier, in ways that *I* consider Shiny. I like you. I don't mind if you're bluntly honest. Borden has stripped my skin off with his honesty at times. I'm still here.

As for my comments regarding the trauma: I'm willing to be publicly vulnerable, raw, not have the answer in the moment, show the development of my process and evolution as it's happening, flail, evolve, grow and demonstrate with my own Self the principles I'm espousing, including when I derail off those and when/how I find my way back to the signal. This can make me look like a complete basket case. Ok. I'm not, as other moments will attest to. I too wish to be honest in this thread, which means not sanitising things to make them more comfortable for others or to make me look better. I utterly love your honesty, it's one of the things I truly appreciate about you. I have no interest in inhibiting it at all *and* I don't wish to inhibit mine either. <---- insert lots of piratey style cheesy grins here.

I wish to play with you here, definitely. I would be utterly happy to explore with bob too, but he has a different experience of me and that's how it is. I never wasn't friends with you, you're yumsticks. So now you know. :D

[songsfortheotherkind]

Not sure how to take that, PL ... so I'll take it well.

Monster post? Give me a break ... haven't you seen some of Songsy's?!

I have thanked this post, although I am not sure that I'm thanking that sentence. I'm undecided! *the universe blips out of existence*

[songsfortheotherkind]

in finishing your monster post, borden, I could hear carly simon just a singin away

"your so vain, you probably think this post is about you, don't you, don't you"

Of course!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyNyHark4xk

Heh heh, we're all about the assimiliation here, secretly....

[PurpleLama]

It was the part at the end where you said some may think this is directed at certain posters, and it's not. I trained my mind virus at a young age to rewrite song lyrics to be funny and appropriate to the situation, so reading that last paragraph the music started playing. Fortunately, or unfortunately, depending on how one sees it, I don't really know the lyrics to the song, so that's all we are to be subjected to, at the moment.

[Cerridwen]

Hello everyone is this an OK place for a newbie to say hi and introduce myself? If not can someone please direct me to the appropriate link? There r so many postings and I tried to search for an introduction post but couldn't find one. Anyway hi everyone I just filled out my profile just in case I look forward to getting to know everyone.

Hi Kali! *waves* This is a great place for a newbie to say hi in. Grab your favorite drink, they're all free here in the Pub and have a seat.

[Dennis Leahy]

{whew} OK, now that Bob is gone, I am going to explain Buddhism. Don't anyone tell Bob!

Buddhism is like the feces clinging to the hair on a yak's ass.

That's it.

Now you know.

I was afraid that Bob would fling yak poo at me if I gave away the secret hidden knowledge of Buddhism in a forum thread. Normally, you need to reincarnate, as a Buddhist monk, at least 143 times before the Master will impart this wisdom to you.

Unfortunately, wisdom is not free, and you will be cursed with bleeding hemorrhoids and a five gallon bucket of bad karma unless you donate, and when I say donate, I'm not talking about a measly $20.
http://www.7thsensemultimedia.com/Imagez/donatebutton.jpg (http://www.msf.org/msf/donations/donations_home.cfm)

-Dennis

[songsfortheotherkind]

Simple answer (from my simple mind) is that we *all* have certain issues to work on ... or else why would we have incarnated here of all places???

Universe is certainly not a static entity ... always changing ... ever morphing.

Circular perhaps rather than linear ... but even so ...

Always good to remain open minded enough for self examination.

If in a blinding flash of brilliance someone suddenly knew *everything* ... in the next instant something will have changed and the process would begin anew.

As always IMHO



yes, that's it absolutely, because if there's nothing more to learn then there's no further evolution possible and that's a reset point. I'm always for the evolution, even when it makes the previous version of me look like a complete blonk. :D

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XwjpyK70ZWo/T4iLWUgSAMI/AAAAAAAACB8/s7MRhpnWE_s/s1600/twit3.gif

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111109203904/theyoungones/images/5/54/Rik1.jpg

which evolution does with monotonous regularity. :becky:

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39541000/jpg/_39541543_youngones_neil203.jpg

[songsfortheotherkind]

Unfortunately, wisdom is not free, and you will be cursed with bleeding hemorrhoids and a five gallon bucket of bad karma unless you donate, and when I say donate, I'm not talking about a measly $20.
http://www.7thsensemultimedia.com/Imagez/donatebutton.jpg (http://www.msf.org/msf/donations/donations_home.cfm)

-Dennis

I love you Dennis! :D

*bounce*

[songsfortheotherkind]

Hi Kali! *waves* This is a great place for a newbie to say hi in. Grab your favorite drink, they're all free here in the Pub and have a seat.


Hi Kali! *waves* This is a great place for a newbie to say hi in. Grab your favorite drink, they're all free here in the Pub and have a seat.

You are such a lovely welcome wagon, dearest. :)

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m02me5RPU31qivx8no1_400.jpg

¤=[Post Update]=¤


I trained my mind virus at a young age to rewrite song lyrics to be funny and appropriate to the situation, so reading that last paragraph the music started playing. Fortunately, or unfortunately, depending on how one sees it, I don't really know the lyrics to the song, so that's all we are to be subjected to, at the moment.

I love that thing of twisted lyrics. :D

Your moustaches are fabulous enough to send any virus on its way. *delight*

[Calz]

Christian Fundamentalists–Raise the Plord!

Posted on May 23, 2012 by Stuart Wilde


http://media.wtfunny.com/content/pictures/4c1e7af8939937bd2d7d62805f37afde.jpg


Christian fundamentalist think they know it all and that they are right. When people are dogmatic and they think they are right, say to them “You are right.” It’s nice to make people happy.

One day I was looking out of my window and the sun came up and I said “Praise the Lord”, the Teddies threw their arms in the air and said “Raise the Plord,”

I said “No no, it’s Praise the Lord”.

“Yes, that’s what we said” they answered “Raise the Plord”. So now we all go round saying, “Raise the Plord”.

The Fundamentalists believe the Bible word-for-word. I have a copy of the Nigerian highway code, it talks of the dangers of over-thinking while driving, I believe it word-for-word. The Nigerian highway code doesn’t mention the return of Jesus. The Fundamental ones believe JC is coming back.

JC ain’t daft. He is back but he’s hiding from those doing the fundamental-funky-chicken-dance. JC is more hip-hop than polyester suits, so you can see why. Plus JC is a vegetarian so fried chicken makes him pass out.


http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/small/0908/disco-jesus-jesus-too-funky-demotivational-poster-1250262386.jpg


It’s all good in the Shire.

Keep people happy, pretend to believe everything. Did you know that one day all the religions disappear? If I tell you how you probably will not believe me.

Here goes for a bit of fun. The ground starts to dematerialize because of the Morph, and it goes to the consistency of wet cement, like a thick soup, and all the buildings sink without trace in minutes.

Many of the animals sink as well, that made me sad. Gaia has to reduce the global methane levels. At the point the slurry forms there aren’t many humans here anymore, 40,000 maybe in total.

Some of the stuff one sees in the Aluna Mirror-Worlds defies description really. Stuart Wilde.


http://www.stuartwilde.com/2012/05/christian-fundamentalists/

[onawah]

Conversation at the Pub has gotten very interesting of late.
I am not nearly so erudite as most of the regulars here, but going on 64 years of age now, I've been around the block a few times, and perhaps I can contribute something here, coming from the perspective of yet another INFP, (a category which many of the regulars on this thread may also easily fit, although INFPs actually comprise less than 1% of the population ) .
Defining an INFP might be a good place to start. It's one of the main categories arrived at by Carl Jung when he devised the Myers Briggs personality test.
http://www.net2.com/mb/infp.htm

Portrait of an INFP - Introverted Intuitive Feeling Perceiving
(Introverted Feeling with Extraverted Intuition)
The Idealist

As an INFP, your primary mode of living is focused internally, where you deal with things according to how you feel about them, or how they fit into your personal value system. Your secondary mode is external, where you take things in primarily via your intuition.

INFPs, more than other iNtuitive Feeling types, are focused on making the world a better place for people. Their primary goal is to find out their meaning in life. What is their purpose? How can they best serve humanity in their lives? They are idealists and perfectionists, who drive themselves hard in their quest for achieving the goals they have identified for themselves

INFPs are highly intuitive about people. They rely heavily on their intuitions to guide them, and use their discoveries to constantly search for value in life. They are on a continuous mission to find the truth and meaning underlying things. Every encounter and every piece of knowledge gained gets sifted through the INFP's value system, and is evaluated to see if it has any potential to help the INFP define or refine their own path in life. The goal at the end of the path is always the same - the INFP is driven to help people and make the world a better place.

Generally thoughtful and considerate, INFPs are good listeners and put people at ease. Although they may be reserved in expressing emotion, they have a very deep well of caring and are genuinely interested in understanding people. This sincerity is sensed by others, making the INFP a valued friend and confidante. An INFP can be quite warm with people he or she knows well.

INFPs do not like conflict, and go to great lengths to avoid it. If they must face it, they will always approach it from the perspective of their feelings. In conflict situations, INFPs place little importance on who is right and who is wrong. They focus on the way that the conflict makes them feel, and indeed don't really care whether or not they're right. They don't want to feel badly. This trait sometimes makes them appear irrational and illogical in conflict situations. On the other hand, INFPs make very good mediators, and are typically good at solving other people's conflicts, because they intuitively understand people's perspectives and feelings, and genuinely want to help them.

INFPs are flexible and laid-back, until one of their values is violated. In the face of their value system being threatened, INFPs can become aggressive defenders, fighting passionately for their cause. When an INFP has adopted a project or job which they're interested in, it usually becomes a "cause" for them. Although they are not detail-oriented individuals, they will cover every possible detail with determination and vigor when working for their "cause".

When it comes to the mundane details of life maintenance, INFPs are typically completely unaware of such things. They might go for long periods without noticing a stain on the carpet, but carefully and meticulously brush a speck of dust off of their project booklet.

INFPs do not like to deal with hard facts and logic. Their focus on their feelings and the Human Condition makes it difficult for them to deal with impersonal judgment. They don't understand or believe in the validity of impersonal judgment, which makes them naturally rather ineffective at using it. Most INFPs will avoid impersonal analysis, although some have developed this ability and are able to be quite logical. Under stress, it's not uncommon for INFPs to mis-use hard logic in the heat of anger, throwing out fact after (often inaccurate) fact in an emotional outburst.

INFPs have very high standards and are perfectionists. Consequently, they are usually hard on themselves, and don't give themselves enough credit. INFPs may have problems working on a project in a group, because their standards are likely to be higher than other members' of the group. In group situations, they may have a "control" problem. The INFP needs to work on balancing their high ideals with the requirements of every day living. Without resolving this conflict, they will never be happy with themselves, and they may become confused and paralyzed about what to do with their lives.

INFPs are usually talented writers. They may be awkard and uncomfortable with expressing themselves verbally, but have a wonderful ability to define and express what they're feeling on paper. INFPs also appear frequently in social service professions, such as counselling or teaching. They are at their best in situations where they're working towards the public good, and in which they don't need to use hard logic.

INFPs who function in their well-developed sides can accomplish great and wonderful things, which they will rarely give themselves credit for. Some of the great, humanistic catalysts in the world have been INFPs.


That said, what follows will be coming from the perspective of this particular INFP, who started out on the spiritual path when in my early 20s by studying with two male teachers, one basically a Vedantist, the other a Korean Zen Master.
I lived next door to the Zen Master for a couple of years and lived for one year at a Zen Buddhist Center in the mountains of Virginia which he helped establish.
I spent a lot of personal time with the Vedantist, his family and the group of students who gathered around him over the course of several years.
I had some very profound experiences during these years which definitely shaped me, but did not really reach a part of my being which was desperately in need of nurturing.
The experiences included a lot of fruitful introspection, satoris and glimpses of the Tao which were very healing and energizing.

But I eventually essentially abandoned the path of Buddhism because I found the structures in place to be so inherently masculine and patriarchal.
It was difficult to avoid being affected by those structures unless one simply practiced on one's own, and I was not quite ready for that at the time, though later on I was able to incorporate the essence of what I had uncovered into my daily life.
I found more of what I was looking for eventually in women's groups that were focused on the Goddess and on ancient Wiccan practices, which seemed to me to be much more balanced in appreciating the values of Creation vs. Creator energies.
However, that didn't come about until after a Near Death Experience that left me with some severe disabilities and changed my lifestyle completely to a much more limiting one.
I can't help but feel that I might have avoided that painful experience if I had been able to connect with the feminine Goddess energies much sooner.

But it seems clear that at the ground level, what is going now on the planet is the balancing of these energies, which have long been dominated by toxic masculine structures-- even spiritual ones, perhaps one could even say--especially spiritual ones.

I saw this quote from Jimmy Carter on Facebook recently and it certainly resonated with me, though the kind of discrimination he is referring to here is far more obvious:

The truth is that male religious leaders have had - and still have - an option to interpret holy teachings either to exalt or subjugate women. They have, for their own selfish ends, overwhelmingly chosen the latter.
Their continuing choice provides the foundation or justification for much of the pervasive persecution and abuse of women throughout the world. This is in clear violation not just of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights but also the teachings of Jesus Christ, the Apostle Paul, Moses and the prophets, Muhammad, and founders of other great religions - all of whom have called for proper and equitable treatment of all the children of God. It is time we had the courage to challenge these views.

It resonated so much that I was moved to go here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jul/12/jimmy-carter-womens-rights-equality
to read the rest of what he said, more of which follows:

...my decision to sever my ties with the Southern Baptist Convention, after six decades, was painful and difficult. It was, however, an unavoidable decision when the convention's leaders, quoting a few carefully selected Bible verses and claiming that Eve was created second to Adam and was responsible for original sin, ordained that women must be "subservient" to their husbands and prohibited from serving as deacons, pastors or chaplains in the military service. This was in conflict with my belief - confirmed in the holy scriptures - that we are all equal in the eyes of God.
This view that women are somehow inferior to men is not restricted to one religion or belief. It is widespread. Women are prevented from playing a full and equal role in many faiths.
Nor, tragically, does its influence stop at the walls of the church, mosque, synagogue or temple. This discrimination, unjustifiably attributed to a Higher Authority, has provided a reason or excuse for the deprivation of women's equal rights across the world for centuries. The male interpretations of religious texts and the way they interact with, and reinforce, traditional practices justify some of the most pervasive, persistent, flagrant and damaging examples of human rights abuses.
At their most repugnant, the belief that women must be subjugated to the wishes of men excuses slavery, violence, forced prostitution, genital mutilation and national laws that omit rape as a crime. But it also costs many millions of girls and women control over their own bodies and lives, and continues to deny them fair access to education, health, employment and influence within their own communities.
The impact of these religious beliefs touches every aspect of our lives.
(My emphasis in bold letters)

Of course, the guises in which discrimination against women in general and the Divine Feminine in particular vary from culture to culture, but it can certainly be found in every culture, without exception, and it is insidious and deeply rooted.

How does this apply to the conversation on the Pub?
From my perspective, there is probably not a single person in a male body currently alive who fully understands what it is to be a woman today, and though there are areas in which men and woman have great commonality, there are areas of the feminine experience which are still for the most part unknown and unexplored by men, largely because the predominantly male cultures have disallowed the feminine experience to have a voice.
This has been true for many centuries, and is only beginning now to be rectified.
Basically men are for the most part incapable of knowing the full extent of how and what women experience both in the world and in the spirit, and it is a big mistake for them to assume that they do.
They can have insights, but their insights are limited, and as such, the value of their insights is limited (though certainly not without value).
Thankfully, we all must experience both male and female incarnations, and so the gap of understanding is not complete, but things are changing so rapidly on the planet now, I think it is becoming even more difficult for men to understand fully what women are experiencing, particularly in their inner lives, however well we women may be at expressing that in words.
The re-emergence of the Divine Feminine will bridge that gap eventually, but we are barely at the beginning of that process.
I think it would be very sad if the dialogue at the Pub were to be thwarted by missing that point, and I think it will be if this perspective is not at least acknowledged, because the conversation has really barely touched the surface of what women are coming to experience in their spiritual paths, and in what what the Divine Feminine has yet to teach us.
I hope this will be helpful in finding some further ground to explore together.

[Debra]

I have lots to say, but nothing of great importance, it has been so vastly covered here the past few pages. If I was to say anything, it would become my process of engaging with every thing that has been said. Too long, and I actually do not feel confident at the moment to lay my thinking out on the bar. If I was live with the action, I might have joined in because here and there I was inspired, times curious and in some moments, I would have been compelled to call out: Warning, warning, I is seeing shades of the creeping virus at 3òclock, step aside not safe to come out yet. Breathe, breathe ..

All fiction but this is how I imagine being there, if I was there, all the time asking myself every ten seconds, this is happening, or is it? is this you, or is this me?

That is the question.

I try to see the layers but can only essence from what I read but, holy moses, there is some energetic threads that I am picking up on. It is happening in real time and I can taste the invisible of different signatures and their interplay with each other, and can even do this when I am viewing it a day after the real time event. So powerful is the essence left behind, it lives on through all dimensions, the physical is just one.

So, engagement is still a precarious business. And how you read, or take, or allow the ideas and expressions of others, depends (I agree Songs) which way you look at it.

I so want to reach the place where I stand up for myself, my ideas and with them, the feelings that I plant with them. And say with absolute self esteem: This is me, this is where I am. However, I am a little jerky still.

Too often, old feelings of mummy and daddy fighting rise up in me, the friction is like acid working on my ego. I feel naked and *think* everyone is seeing the f#ck up I am, what I am feeling inside, bursting up into a huge boil and falling apart at the same time. I just want to step to the side of the road and hope no one will see me. Because the thing I seem to oddly value the most is not being understood, and therefore being rejected for what I think.

Now, I am yet to clarify to the point of certainty what the virus is at times - its expanded meaning, its evidence of existence, its profile, its glossary of terms - still eludes me. Where does the ego meet the virus? When does it come for dinner and what does it like for dessert? I think I get it sometimes, and see it´s programming too - which lends itself around a multitude of platforms with great artfulness. However, when I am *me* and I mean here in the sense of the *no mind, me* (as distinct from the *no mind to operate with* space where my body is so shocked that I have left the building *me*) my experience is of *mind dropping away*

In this *mind drop* state, I feel abundantly simple and in total, unconditional acceptance of all that is. Which happens at the most unexpected moments and .. rarely happens. The most memorable moments for instance have been when I have connected as a mother to my children, joining with them for the first time after giving birth to feed them. And when I just sit back and listen and view others in their awesome selves focused on giving to each other. That puts me in a place of *all is well*

I just used Jorr´s signature .. LOL .. now I understand it.

But that is not gained by just waiting around for it to lock in and stay that way for eternity, is it? You have to earn that dimension :p

The messiness of the house - somehow I think it is always going to get messy. No matter how high, or far out you go.

I just want to honour those who have placed themselves on the line in the last 24 hours, to wrestle with the ideas of their own and of others. This is a pub where people bring themselves, their lives, their troubles, their joys, their beefs. And they mix drinks with looks and stares, tilted heads and angled horns. I am not the most prolific poster here, that is for sure. I am truly humbled by the beautiful explanations that everyone gives to the meaning of life. It blows me into the next universe. But what makes it really swing is the meaning that is extracted through the significant relating between this diversity of souls.

Of course, I would love Bob to return and keep adding to the topics that flow through here. What I have seen this recent conversation deliver, however, is a new depth that others - apart from Songs and Bob - have now risen to articulate boldly and beautifully. OMFG Calz, Borden, Chinaski, Curtis, Purple Lama.. I am just *words fail me* Together, this commitment to dialogue deeply (although it has reached a surprising outcome) is still, in my estimation one of the most worthwhile reads here on Avalon - it is a brilliant education, in content and what I consider highly functional relationship conduct. From Cerridwen welcoming newcomers to the bar to roaming members adding to the menu - there is a presence building here. Co-presencing is where I expect this to flower into.

Moving through emotional zones is part of this - we cannot separate our ideas from them. Every thought has an emotional attachment and that is the place where meaning is made and understanding in many different ways rendered. Until the next time, and the frontiers are pushed out again. :eek:

We are in service to each other - even when it is not *so comfortable* - And so it is here at the Pub too. Bob wrote somewhere in this conversation in the early stages, words to the effect that went, no problem, let´s talk about that, that´s why I am here, and why we are here, together.

WxhSW29nSwk

[songsfortheotherkind]

Conversation at the Pub has gotten very interesting of late.

Thankfully, we all must experience both male and female incarnations, and so the gap of understanding is not complete, but things are changing so rapidly on the planet now, I think it is becoming even more difficult for men to understand fully what women are experiencing, particularly in their inner lives, however well we women may be at expressing that in words.
The re-emergence of the Divine Feminine will bridge that gap eventually, but we are barely at the beginning of that process.
I think it would be very sad if the dialogue at the Pub were to be thwarted by missing that point, and I think it will be if this perspective is not at least acknowledged, because the conversation has really barely touched the surface of what women are coming to experience in their spiritual paths, and in what what the Divine Feminine has yet to teach us.
I hope this will be helpful in finding some further ground to explore together.

As both an INFP and a female, I am deeply grateful that you took the time to make this post. You have expressed things that I didn't even know I needed expressed. I wanted to say 'thanks' before I actually got into replying in any depth. Great post.

[Calz]

We are in service to each other - even when it is not *so comfortable* - And so it is here at the Pub too. Bob wrote somewhere in this conversation in the early stages, words to the effect that went, no problem, let´s talk about that, that´s why I am here, and why we are here, together.



http://armandofitnessexpert.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Beer-in-SouthBay-Party-1024x673.jpg

[Borden]

Zebra, I just wanted to say how much I loved your post, and that I find it almost ironic that you could spend a fair bit of it talking about the contributions of others here ... while writing like that. Here's to co-presencing, and to your presence.

[RunningDeer]

I so want to reach the place where I stand up for myself, my ideas and with them, the feelings that I plant with them. And say with absolute self esteem: This is me, this is where I am. However, I am a little jerky still.

Love your post, Zebra. Especially the above. I've added it to my "Top 20 All Time Favorites From Sensitive Beings". :hug:

I send peace and blessings to All at the Pub. And a round of root beer in frosty mugs! :wave:

UPDATE: Root beer cuz there's a lotta cutie pie kid avatar pics @ this fine establishment.
:cantina:

[Calz]

Hmmmmm.

Looks like a captive audience ... good.

http://www.paderkino.de/scenes/05/per_anhalter_durch_die_galaxis4.jpg


Let us take a deep breath ... close our eyes ... and remember exactly where we are at.


http://www.cartoonaday.com/images/cartoons/2010/07/Joes-Spaceport-Bar-Cartoon-c-598x432.jpg

http://www.barryejackson.com/img/services/chardev/other/alien-bar_lg.jpg

http://damiblog.fr/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/aliens_vs_predator_chess2.jpg

http://damiblog.fr/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/aliens_vs_predator_pool2.jpg

http://api.ning.com/files/DxDxDaFUIyH28HBZWJZYLCLp3jZrlEcgLUvVUbBMPyn81z5sSWAZL7iHJqCz5HiSLkXzZDBTeZLfCfy1s6qQKHR4on822Hiu/alienpoolbluemassive31000.jpg

[Calz]

Alien Brain Hemorrhage: Drink at Your Own Risk :haha:

http://headblitz.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/alien_shot.jpg

[songsfortheotherkind]

I have lots to say, but nothing of great importance, it has been so vastly covered here the past few pages. If I was to say anything, it would become my process of engaging with every thing that has been said.

OMFG Calz, Borden, Chinaski, Curtis, Purple Lama.. I am just *words fail me* Together, this commitment to dialogue deeply (although it has reached a surprising outcome) is still, in my estimation one of the most worthwhile reads here on Avalon - it is a brilliant education, in content and what I consider highly functional relationship conduct. From Cerridwen welcoming newcomers to the bar to roaming members adding to the menu - there is a presence building here. Co-presencing is where I expect this to flower into.


I love this post so much, as well as the perspective on what is happening here. I fully resonate with this. It's what I love.

Thank you so much for writing. :) Your voice here is such a beautiful frequency of the Song.

[songsfortheotherkind]

I send peace and blessings to All at the Pub. And a round of root beer in frosty mugs! :wave:

UPDATE: Root beer cuz there's a lotta cutie pie kid avatar pics @ this fine establishment.
:cantina:

I will have a Pan Galactic, because I am not a cutie pie at all. :D

Actually, I'll have the Alien Brain haemorrhage that Calz was introducing, because that's the kind of gal I is!

*distant sounds of OMFG! and my head exploding*

[Cerridwen]

Wow. Thank you Onawah. I had never heard of an INFP, but that is the exact definition of me and how I deal with life.

Well, except for the talented writing part. That makes me feel self conscious as well. I know I’m a horrific speller and I worry about grammar and punctuation all of the time. (Just right now I misspelled both conscious and grammar!) :p With all of these wonderful writers in the pub, I often feel stupid, so I don't write as much. Yeah, I know, stupid virus, get over it.

I also feel more at home with other women who focus on the Goddess and celebrate the Divine Feminine. I don’t actually consider myself Wiccan, but take bits and pieces from every religion. If it truly feels right, I’ll nod my head, say Yes, and adopt it. If not, I’ll simply shrug my shoulders, say ok, and move on. * Giggles cause that’s such an INFP thing to do*

Zebra, I love the way you write. So often, you put into words exactly what I’m feeling too.:nod:

[Katyani]

Borden, your recent 'monster' post is excellent. It's complete and I think the tone is fine, too.
The recent discussion regarding no-mind / yes-mind (for lack of a better term) reminds me of the two age-old schools of thought (philosophies/religions) in India.
They have lived side by side for thousands of years, so they have become quite good at it. There is cordiality, absolutely. Co-existence, naturally. Co-habitation, not so much. Co-creation, of course not.
In short, except for some rare, theoretical debates, they mostly keep a respectful distance. Both 'sides' realize that they are engaging reality/Reality from vastly different perspectives.

Personally, I am a full on, dedicated yes-minder. I was going to say 'always have been, always will be', but I don't think that's wholly accurate. In the distant past I think I've been in no-mind land (perhaps most of us have) and I've found it not a place/state I wish to remain in, or return to. Yes-mind is not anything I need saving from. It's who I am at the core, close to the source.
I have struggled through various underground places and strongholds of Hades. It's been very difficult. I think I know a little of what you are alluding to in your post, Borden. There is something much more terrifying than 'passing away'. These days, though, I'm having so much fun, it's a good thing it's not illegal. It's a deep, dark, sweet, light co-creation.

[RunningDeer]

Young dimensional Paula is here to join in another round of root beer. She's whiny and cranky because she missed the first round. Cheers! to the Pubbers, Pubettes, Pubalonians, Pubsters...



I send peace and blessings to All at the Pub. And a round of root beer in frosty mugs! :wave:

UPDATE: Root beer cuz there's a lotta cutie pie kid avatar pics @ this fine establishment.
:cantina:

[Calz]

Young dimensional Paula is here to join in another round of root beer. She's whiny and cranky because she missed the first round. Cheers! to the Pubbers, Pubettes, Pubalonians, Pubsters...



I send peace and blessings to All at the Pub. And a round of root beer in frosty mugs! :wave:

UPDATE: Root beer cuz there's a lotta cutie pie kid avatar pics @ this fine establishment.
:cantina:

Never forget that "time" is only for those silly humans on Gaia ... doesn't exist here at the End of the Universe ...

http://chzhistoriclols.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/funny-pictures-history-whoa-slow-down-there-senorita-you-havent-even-finished-your-root-beer-yet.jpg

http://www.beseenforlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/yoda-Cranky.jpg#yoda

[another bob]

We are in service to each other - even when it is not *so comfortable* - And so it is here at the Pub too. Bob wrote somewhere in this conversation in the early stages, words to the effect that went, no problem, let´s talk about that, that´s why I am here, and why we are here, together.

Well, it's a new day, and being a Gemini, I have special dispensation to change my mind. Zebra Darlin', you said it right! Nevertheless, this time, I'm coming with a Sage smudge stick, and intend to employ it as the case requires! Stinky posters, beware!

:yo:

[another bob]

In the distant past I think I've been in no-mind land (perhaps most of us have) and I've found it not a place/state I wish to remain in, or return to.

Wherever you were, Sister, it wasn't "no-mind". No-mind is non-dwelling mind, which means it transcends yes/no, good/bad, light/dark. Apparently, a lot of folks are still confused about the subject, so I'll continue attempting to clarify.

[Calz]

We are in service to each other - even when it is not *so comfortable* - And so it is here at the Pub too. Bob wrote somewhere in this conversation in the early stages, words to the effect that went, no problem, let´s talk about that, that´s why I am here, and why we are here, together.

Well, it's a new day, and being a Gemini, I have special dispensation to change my mind. Zebra Darlin', you said it right! Nevertheless, this time, I'm coming with a Sage smudge stick, and intend to employ it as the case requires! Stinky posters, beware!

:yo:


With the sunrise comes a breath of fresh air.

Salute to you Sir.

:yo:


http://skinnymom.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/salute-girl.jpg


Gemini eh???

Well ... that should certainly add a bit of insight into any duality discussions in the Pub :nod:


http://f.imagehost.org/0573/GeminiTwinsJPEG.jpg


PS - btw ... with 5 planets in Libra I seldom have the luxury of *making up my mind* to begin with!!!


http://www.pic4ever.com/images/121.gif

[modwiz]

Root beer is very tasty and my usual quaff. While in magic land there is only one beverage, (beside the blessed untreated well water here) and that is Flying Cauldron Butterscotch Beer.
16464

[another bob]

Gemini eh???

Well ... that should certainly add a bit of insight into any duality discussions in the Pub :nod:


http://f.imagehost.org/0573/GeminiTwinsJPEG.jpg

Yes, I've got two Guardians, one on each side, slightly above my head, facing each other. Their voices are synchronized in a perpetual hum, as in "Huuuuuu". It's really quite lovely, and when I tune in, we all get very happy and are swept away. Whether I'm foolish or not, they just keep pace with the mantra, reminding me of the deeper reality, prior to the dream. When I let it permeate the physical, everything sings in joy! I should do that more often, they whisper.

[songsfortheotherkind]

There is cordiality, absolutely. Co-existence, naturally. Co-habitation, not so much. Co-creation, of course not. In short, except for some rare, theoretical debates, they mostly keep a respectful distance. Both 'sides' realize that they are engaging reality/Reality from vastly different perspectives.

Yup. That's it. The respectful distance would be fantastic and great; it will be interesting to see if that sort of keeping the respectful distance is possible.


Personally, I am a full on, dedicated yes-minder. I was going to say 'always have been, always will be', but I don't think that's wholly accurate. In the distant past I think I've been in no-mind land (perhaps most of us have) and I've found it not a place/state I wish to remain in, or return to. Yes-mind is not anything I need saving from. It's who I am at the core, close to the source.

:) This is how I feel also, with the physical and with the yes-mind. I rejoice at this space. :)


I have struggled through various underground places and strongholds of Hades. It's been very difficult. I think I know a little of what you are alluding to in your post, Borden. There is something much more terrifying than 'passing away'. These days, though, I'm having so much fun, it's a good thing it's not illegal. It's a deep, dark, sweet, light co-creation.

Yes! The lessons of the darkness are ones that make the lightness even more beautiful. I long wrestled my own balrog and am happy with what I came out of it with. It's a different kind of light.

[Curt]

Root beer is very tasty and my usual quaff. While in magic land there is only one beverage, (beside the blessed untreated well water here) and that is Flying Cauldron Butterscotch Beer.
16464

Butterscotch beer sounds pretty damn good, Modwiz, I have to say. I've never had it.

I've always been a fan of butterscotch sauce, but have never seen it as a beverage.

In fact, not to get too far afield here, but back when I lived in Massachusetts I couldn't seem to get butterscotch even at ice cream places. It was becoming somewhat of an endangered species in the sauce-world, which I noticed since it's a flavor I like.

People would often suggest caramel instead. As though that's some kind of substitute. Nope.

Don't get me wrong caramel is great in its own right, but it's hardly a stand-in for butterscotch.

[Done in the style of Lou Gerhig's Farewell speech] ....And that is why... Ladies and gentlemen...I would like to announce my candidacy.... for President... of the Butterscotch Preservation Society of America...

:usa2:

[songsfortheotherkind]

Butterscotch beer sounds pretty damn good, Modwiz, I have to say. I've never had it.

I love that new pic. Jack is the master of The Look, of that there is no doubt. :D

[Fred Steeves]

Well, it's a new day, and being a Gemini, I have special dispensation to change my mind.

Ah, another Gemini!!! So that's how I knew you'd be back.:p I am however of no mind to jump into the middle of the great no mind debate.:tape2:

[Curt]

Butterscotch beer sounds pretty damn good, Modwiz, I have to say. I've never had it.

I love that new pic. Jack is the master of The Look, of that there is no doubt. :D

Glad you like it, Songsy.

:cool:

[Calz]

Well, it's a new day, and being a Gemini, I have special dispensation to change my mind.

Ah, another Gemini!!! So that's how I knew you'd be back.:p I am however of no mind to jump into the middle of the great no mind debate.:tape2:

For the benefit of non-astro versed Pub Patrons ... Gemini is a "mutable" sign ...


Mutable sign: A sign that can be adjustable, understanding, analyser, extrovert. The sign that comes under the mutable section can be associated with the positive qualities as it can act on any sides of Cardinal as well as the Fixed signs. The mutable signs are:

Gemini (II) : - between the spring and summer seasons.

Virgo
Sagittarius
Pisces




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutable_sign

[another bob]

I am however of no mind to jump into the middle of the great no mind debate.:tape2:[/SIZE]



Nondwelling (no-mind)

Q: Whereon should the mind settle and dwell?

A: It should settle upon nondwelling and there dwell.

Q: What is this nondwelling?

A: It means not allowing the mind to dwell upon anything whatsoever.

Q: And what is the meaning of that?

A: Dwelling upon nothing means that the mind is not fixed upon good or evil,
being or nonbeing, inside or outside, or somewhere between the two,
void or nonvoid, concentration or distraction.

This dwelling upon nothing is the state in which it should dwell;
those who attain to it are said to have nondwelling minds -
in other words, they have Buddha-minds!


~Hui Hai,
THE ESSENTIAL GATEWAY TO TRUTH
BY MEANS OF INSTANTANEOUS AWAKENING

So, what does this mean? Simply that no-mind is mind that is free of fixation. It is free and so it flows. It does get stuck attaching to any transient identity, but can dance through all states, recognizing all as its own play. It's the innocence of the child mind, that does not cling or avoid, but just experiences all and responds to all in the moment, freely and unbiased by concepts and borrowed notions.

[songsfortheotherkind]

[QUOTE].If you do follow your bliss you put yourself on a kind of track that has been there all the while, waiting for you, and the life that you ought to be living is the one you are living. Follow your bliss and don't be afraid, and doors will open where you didn't know they were going to be.” ― Joseph Campbell

Is this also an answer to the question I asked you in my last pm?

[Curt]

:cool: Look at your PM :thumb:

[songsfortheotherkind]

:cool: Look at your PM :thumb:

well I did. I accept.

huzzah!

[Calz]

:cool: Look at your PM :thumb:

well I did. I accept.

huzzah!


http://movie-shop.us/pictures/I_Now_Pronounce_You_Chuck_and_Larry.jpg

[songsfortheotherkind]

:cool: Look at your PM :thumb:

well I did. I accept.

huzzah!


I'm not reposting that stupid pic, Calz. :P

Twit. *laughing*

[Calz]

:cool: Look at your PM :thumb:

well I did. I accept.

huzzah!


I'm not reposting that stupid pic, Calz. :P

Twit. *laughing*

What?

You mean PM doean't mean "Proposed Marriage"???


http://www.mgcpuzzles.com/mgcpuzzles/images/all_new_core_images/Wedding_puzzle_art/1_marriage_proposals/toy_car_wedding_proposal_A.jpg

[Calz]

So, what does this mean? Simply that no-mind is mind that is free of fixation. It is free and so it flows.



Okay.

Makes sense.

Since you mentioned (mutable) Gemini ... does it not stand to reason that someone with a lot of mutable energies would be more prone to enter that space than say a *fixed* sign???

Dramatically oversimplified as someone's "sun sign" while perhaps the most indicative of energy or traits is only one source with all the other planets adding to the "dance".

[another bob]

So, what does this mean? Simply that no-mind is mind that is free of fixation. It is free and so it flows.



Okay.

Makes sense.

Since you mentioned (mutable) Gemini ... does it not stand to reason that someone with a lot of mutable energies would be more prone to enter that space than say a *fixed* sign???

We're not our sun signs, but there all sorts of conditioning factors that come into play in our human behavior. Obviously, a more flexible type would have less resistance and more adaptability to the non-dwelling mode than a stubborn personality sort who might tend to fixate identity, such as a fundamentalist of any persuasion.

[RunningDeer]

Hello songsfortheotherkind,


I combed through at least fifty pages of the thread this morning trying to find the one with the list of critical dates you had coming up for May. I couldn’t find it so, I’m working from memory. (Your Child’s 2nd anniversary?) You’ve been in my thoughts. And if I’m wrong, gulp! I am sorry in advance.

She scampers out holding her breath, hoping the voice inside was correct when it said, “Go ahead. Post!”
..........................................http://www.pic4ever.com/images/computer3.gif

Peace and hearts,
WhiteCrowBlackDeer

UPDATE: If this is incorrect, I'll delete ASAP.

[Calz]

Oh by the way ... since we have been sharing family stories and secrets I have one more ...


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_FqQEHPUq6Zc/R6m3g8da7eI/AAAAAAAAAFY/0iozGSREogI/s320/yoda-funny-hillary-clinton.jpg


Yes ... yes ... who knew???


Running for office I am ...

Contributions can be submitted starting with Fred's Donate link and taking "options" thereafter ...


http://www.destinationcreation.com/informatives/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/dc500-yodacolbert00aa.jpg

[Fred Steeves]

i honestly don't know if it was the naval gazing session last night or the fact that it's my birthday today

Huh, now there's two others at Avalon I share a birthday with. That could spell real trouble. Oh well, in the mean time happy birthday to us!!! http://www.bigtenfever.com/forums/images/smilies/cheers.gif

[Calz]

I combed through at least fifty pages of the thread this morning




http://moviecarpet.com/iwave/images/7/o-geek-art-yoda-ooooooooaargh.jpg

[RunningDeer]

I combed through at least fifty pages of the thread this morning



http://moviecarpet.com/iwave/images/7/o-geek-art-yoda-ooooooooaargh.jpg

I woke up my Wolfie when I belted out a laugh! It's my next screen saver. I've got a fine collection going because of you. Here's $500 in Avalonian buckoos.

[Dennis Leahy]

Oh shyyte! Bob's back, and he mentioned "stinky posts", right after my yak feces inverted-koan.

I had hoped it would smash through the thick air (I'm a middle child who has always battled with the codependent urge to fix every situation, especially between "siblings" that I know love one another.)

This thread (as well as the one Ulli started, "...happening now"), are absolutely overwhelming to me. This one is an eclectic stew containing everything from the silliest and funniest images and prose to some of the most profound, insightful, introspective thoughts that have been shared at Avalon, and then blended with the full spectrum of raw, honest, human emotion. I decided early on to be a watcher, an occasional patron who saunters in quietly from time to time to try to sample a sample, take the pulse, and wave hello.

Dennis
p.s. I know a lot more about yak feces than Buddhism.

[another bob]

Oh shyyte! Bob's back, and he mentioned "stinky posts", right after my yak feces inverted-koan.

I had hoped it would smash through the thick air (I'm a middle child who has always battled with the codependent urge to fix every situation, especially between "siblings" that I know love one another.)

This thread (as well as the one Ulli started, "...happening now"), are absolutely overwhelming to me. This one is an eclectic stew containing everything from the silliest and funniest images and prose to some of the most profound, insightful, introspective thoughts that have been shared at Avalon, and then blended with the full spectrum of raw, honest, human emotion. I decided early on to be a watcher, an occasional patron who saunters in quietly from time to time to try to sample a sample, take the pulse, and wave hello.

Dennis
p.s. I know a lot more about yak feces than Buddhism.

A monk once asked Ummon, one of my favorite Zen Masters, "What is the Buddha?"

Ummon answered: "A dried ****-stick!"

(Note: A 'dry **** stick' was the medieval equivalent of toilet paper. Hence Yunmen's reply is sometimes translated as "Something to wipe your arse on!"

Now, some may take that as disresectful, and certainly from the mouth of a fool, it would be. Why would a great realizer like Ummon give such an answer? Well, that's what they call a "koan" in Zen. If you try to provide an explanation using your discursive, conceptual mind, you'll neve get it. However, from the point of view of no-mind, the answer is immediately plain. Zen monks in monasteries may labor years over such koans, becoming the inquiry itself, until all their mental preferences and conceptual fabrications are exhausted. At that point, a breakthrough in consciousness is possible.

Dennis, you're safe for now!

[Fred Steeves]

Well, that's what they call a "koan" in Zen. If you try to provide an explanation using your discursive, conceptual mind, you'll neve get it. However, from the point of view of no-mind, the answer is immediately plain.

Bob, that reminds me of a funny little story the late great Alan Watts relayed, went something like this: "I left a book of Zen koans with a friend who needed a stay in the hospital. When I came back to visit him a week later, I asked him how he liked the book. He said he didn't understand a bit of it, but found the book tremendously enjoyable".

By the way, I don't really get them either, but I also enjoy them tremendously...:nod:

[another bob]

By the way, I don't really get them either, but I also enjoy them tremendously...:nod:

The great Poet Ikkyu once said, "The only koan is you!"

Ramana suggested that the best method was simply to inquire, "Who am I?"

The point was not to come up with some intellectual response, but to let the question act like a diamond drill, burrowing through layers of superimposed beliefs and notions, all temporary self-images, until finally reaching the live core at the heart, beyond mind's smoke screen. Only then could you recognize your true nature, stripped of all interpretation and conceptual encrustation.

[Fred Steeves]

By the way, I don't really get them either, but I also enjoy them tremendously...:nod:

The great Poet Ikkyu once said, "The only koan is you!"

Ramana suggested that the best method was simply to inquire, "Who am I?"

The point was not to come up with some intellectual response, but to let the question act like a diamond drill, burrowing through layers of superimposed beliefs and notions, all temporary self-images, until finally reaching the live core at the heart, beyond mind's smoke screen. Only then could you recognize your true nature, stripped of all interpretation and conceptual encrustation.

Oh yeah, I know their purpose, they're just not my cup of tea on the path of the ongoing awakening process. Now when you get into the realms of "The only koan is you", and the method of simply inquiring "who am I?", well now we're talking.

[jorr lundstrom]

I found the " Where am I ?"even worse. LOL


All is well at the pub, I see. LOL


Jorr

[PurpleLama]

"When am I?" is the one that gives me the most trouble.

[another bob]

By the way, I don't really get them either, but I also enjoy them tremendously...:nod:

The great Poet Ikkyu once said, "The only koan is you!"

Ramana suggested that the best method was simply to inquire, "Who am I?"

The point was not to come up with some intellectual response, but to let the question act like a diamond drill, burrowing through layers of superimposed beliefs and notions, all temporary self-images, until finally reaching the live core at the heart, beyond mind's smoke screen. Only then could you recognize your true nature, stripped of all interpretation and conceptual encrustation.

Oh yeah, I know their purpose, they're just not my cup of tea on the path of the ongoing awakening process. Now when you get into the realms of "The only koan is you", and the method of simply inquiring "who am I?", well now we're talking.



In the Sanzen Room, where Zen Masters conduct such formal interviews with students, they require the student to answer with their whole being. Mere verbal play is rewarded with a quick dismissal, if lucky, or even a blow. At Mt. Baldy Zen Monastery, my first few months' answers to the initial koan he gave me were gently laughed off, and often I was dismissed before I could even open my mouth.

After exhausting every conceivable approach, I was left with an interior devastation that I could not have imagined. Somehow, the inquiry proceeded regardless, on a level I had never known, nor can even now describe. More months followed, and I became very quiet, absorbed in an internal process deeper than thought.

The thinking mind was breached early one morning during Kinhin (15 minute walking meditation interspersed between hour-long sitting sessions). It was during a sesshin (a week-long intense meditation interrupted by 4 visits a day with the Master) . As I walked in the slow procession, shivering in the predawn icy mountain chill, my heart suddenly welled up into my throat, and then something exploded there, and I was overtaken with convulsive sobs, so much so that I had to be led to the side to recover.

All that I had cherished about any sense of self was obliterated in an instant -- as if it had never existed in the first place -- and I stood alone in the universe, which was nothing but my own immense body, within which an unspeakable silent perfection manifested as the immaculate nature of being itself. These are only words for something that words cannot touch.

Tears come even now, in the recollection.

For the next several hours, all I could do was weep with a relief that, again, cannot be described. When it was my turn to go before Roshi, I was still weeping. He took one look at me, skipped the usual demand for an answer to my koan, and smilingly broke into English with, "Ahhh, crying buddha!"

I don't have much memory of the weeks that followed (it felt as if I was in a serene floating world, not even in a body), but about a month later, in Sanzen, when he finally asked for an answer to my koan, I spontaneously shot my arm up and shouted a monosyllabic reply that surprised both of us.

He grinned and said, "So, the flower has finally begun to open!"

Now I was ready to begin in earnest . . . .

About a year later, I had reached a point in my practice in which even the overlay of “zen” on whatever this IS had simply become so excruciating that I walked out of my cabin in the middle of the night, dressed in my thin cotton robe in freezing weather, and not even giving a damn where I was off to.

About an hour later I found myself way up the side of the mountain, well above the small monastery nestled below, but now vaguely heard the faint but growing sound of the monks and students beginning the morning sutra chants, and this infuriated me! I rolled around on the ground, threw rocks in the air, smashed logs into trees, and finally just sat down, numb.

The chanting continued. I began to weep, not because of what the sutras were proclaiming, and not even because of the dearness of the fools down there going on in that strange fusion of one syllable Sanskrit and Japanese that constitutes the traditional zen chants, but just because …. Just because of what? Who the hell knows? I just wept. In those tears, it suddenly struck me how sweet the mountain air was, how fresh the morning breeze, how dazzling the vast blue sky! All my cares fell away like tattered old robes. I felt utterly clear, reborn, in love, but I didn’t know with whom, nor did it matter.

Hours passed. I had stopped weeping and just sat there on a rock, with a huge grin on my face. I missed the morning Sanzen (interview with the master). Roshi sent someone out to look for me. Somehow, I knew this, I “experienced” Roshi beckoning me, so what the hell, who cares, I walked back down the mountain and eventually found myself kneeling in front of him in his room. He sat facing me, studying my face, it seemed, and assessing my state. For the first time, I had no interest in his remarks. Who cares? He’s a bald-headed little man with poor English. I said nothing. He looked at me, I looked at him. There was nothing happening. There had never been anything happening, except this ridiculous game of persona, and frankly, I couldn’t raise an idiot’s thought about any of it.

Contrary to the pop-psych cliché, this was not a form of disassociation, although there were certainly aspects of it that would seem so. I had no “affect”, no sense of any movement in mind, just the immediacy of the moment, of bare attention. All my previous frustration had vanished, and I felt no relation to the person who had stormed up the side of the hill in the middle of the night. There was simply this, without any superimposition. It wasn’t zen, it wasn’t me, it wasn’t any of a thousand names we use to attempt the impossible – describing “this”. Nevertheless, it is no different than what is right now, these fingers typing away, your eyes glancing over the little dots and dashes, earth spinning around the sun, the galaxies turning in vastness, the same vastness that moves these fingers, your eye muscles, our heart.

Roshi finally made a kind of grunt, nodded to me, and I got up and walked out of his room and into myself, and what that is I still can’t say with any words of men or gods, but it's certainly not a problem to be solved nor a riddle to be figured out, and that's fine with me.


:yo:

[Playdo of Ataraxas]

You are what you is.

JB8aERkYKiE

[Fred Steeves]

There was simply this, without any superimposition. It wasn’t zen, it wasn’t me, it wasn’t any of a thousand names we use to attempt the impossible – describing “this”. Nevertheless, it is no different than what is right now, these fingers typing away, your eyes glancing over the little dots and dashes, earth spinning around the sun, the galaxies turning in vastness, the same vastness that moves these fingers, your eye muscles, our heart.


Beautiful story Bob, thank you for sharing that. This part above struck me as the true heart of the matter, which ever route one takes to get to that point. Just today while working, two thoughts were playing in my mind at the same time. One was how Zen masters just love to ask "Who Are You?" The other was how as of late I've become more and more loathe to label. Things, people, ideas, etc. Of course it still happens anyway, but much less than it used to now that the night watchman is on duty.

The other corresponding thought was that once something is labeled, it becomes the equivalent of an eagle tied to the ground. Correct me if I'm wrong now, as I have zero formal Zen training, but I can just see the master smiling inwardly as grasshopper begins grasping for the right answer: "I am John Doe. No? Hmmmmm... I am a locksmith. Hmmmm...I am a human being. Hmmmm."

[another bob]

...I can just see the master smiling inwardly as grasshopper begins grasping for the right answer: "I am John Doe. No? Hmmmmm... I am a locksmith. Hmmmm...I am a human being. Hmmmm."

Hehe, Brother -- you're heading in the right direction with that line of inquiry!

"Discard all you are not and go ever deeper. Just as a man digging a
well discards what is not water, until he reaches the water-bearing
strata, so must you discard what is not your own, till nothing is
left which you can disown. You will find that what is left is nothing
which the mind can hook on to. You are not even a human being. You
just are - a point of awareness, co-extensive with time and space and
beyond both, the ultimate cause, itself uncaused." ~Sri Nisargadatta

[Fred Steeves]

...I can just see the master smiling inwardly as grasshopper begins grasping for the right answer: "I am John Doe. No? Hmmmmm... I am a locksmith. Hmmmm...I am a human being. Hmmmm."

Hehe, Brother -- you're heading in the right direction with that line of inquiry!


O.K. then, channeling the old and wily riverboat gambler part of "Fred", I'll see your call, and raise you one more Koan my friend. The teachings, even at their very highest and most pure, are nothing but springboards are they?

[another bob]

...I can just see the master smiling inwardly as grasshopper begins grasping for the right answer: "I am John Doe. No? Hmmmmm... I am a locksmith. Hmmmm...I am a human being. Hmmmm."

Hehe, Brother -- you're heading in the right direction with that line of inquiry!


O.K. then, channeling the old and wily riverboat gambler part of "Fred", I'll see your call, and raise you one more Koan my friend. The teachings, even at their very highest and most pure, are nothing but springboards are they?

Sure, they are certainly not ends in themselves, but rather like rafts. Once you cross over the water, you have no further use or need for the raft. One might also see them as a thorn used to remove a thorn. Once its done its job, it too can be discarded as obsolete. My koan now is simply, what serves the best outcome for all, in the midst of any given situation? If I have to think about it, that simply means there is still baggage I'm toting around. It gets very subtle as we go along.

[Fred Steeves]

My koan now is simply, what serves the best outcome for all, in the midst of any given situation? If I have to think about it, that simply means there is still baggage I'm toting around. It gets very subtle as we go along.

Out f*****g standing!!! Down to just one koan. I'm seeing the Ouroboros eat it's way up towards the head, until there's nothing left. When the baggage is finally devoured (released), the head disappears.

What then? I think that's referred to as stepping boldly off the proverbial cliff. Or is it just the next cliff?

[another bob]

My koan now is simply, what serves the best outcome for all, in the midst of any given situation? If I have to think about it, that simply means there is still baggage I'm toting around. It gets very subtle as we go along.

Out f*****g standing!!! Down to just one koan. I'm seeing the Ouroboros eat it's way up towards the head, until there's nothing left. When the baggage is finally devoured (released), the head disappears.

What then? I think that's referred to as stepping boldly off the proverbial cliff. Or is it just the next cliff?

Close -- it's called "stepping off the 100 ft. pole". What fun -- nothing below to break your fall, nothing above your shoulders but sky. Weeeee!

[songsfortheotherkind]

"When am I?" is the one that gives me the most trouble.

*laughing*

I have that *all* the time, heh heh heh, with various effects. It's annoying when one misses one's own eldest son's birthday because one can't remember what month it is, let alone what day, which is what happened last year.

I'm getting better with knowing what year it is, after 47 years of being here. :P

[Dennis Leahy]

... I had no “affect”, no sense of any movement in mind, just the immediacy of the moment, of bare attention. All my previous frustration had vanished, and I felt no relation to the person who had stormed up the side of the hill in the middle of the night. There was simply this, without any superimposition. It wasn’t zen, it wasn’t me, it wasn’t any of a thousand names we use to attempt the impossible – describing “this”. Nevertheless, it is no different than what is right now, these fingers typing away, your eyes glancing over the little dots and dashes, earth spinning around the sun, the galaxies turning in vastness, the same vastness that moves these fingers, your eye muscles, our heart.
...
Decades ago, I swallowed a lot of black beans (http://books.google.com/books?id=3R9TQbwhBh0C&pg=PA24&lpg=PA24&dq=%22black+bean%22+zen+monk+master&source=bl&ots=b9O1mMPMu0&sig=nJommU9HL5kqjaJnvgeP20NxNx4&hl=en&sa=X&ei=RLW-T93nGev9sQKdyeHrCQ&ved=0CEgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22black%20bean%22%20zen%20monk%20master&f=false), (Zen 'fascicles', Blue Cliff Record, Original Teachings of Ch'an Buddhism,...), tried to find stillness in meditation (never got to a deep state while deliberately sitting zazen indoors, only when out in semi-wilderness - and always melting non-deliberately), and eventually gave up trying to 'force' some flavor of Buddhist "enlightenment." I think I was too lazy. Too interested in women, mind-altering substances, and music (sex and drugs and ...folk music?) to actually put forth the effort to deliberately achieve any state of consciousness that was similar to what I imagined by reading tales of monks making breakthroughs into samadhi or advanced jhana (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhy%C4%81na_in_Buddhism) states (like yours.)

Most of what I read was about monks and masters from a thousand years ago, and kinda wondered how applicable it was to modern critters like us. Apparently, quite applicable. Your story brought a grin to my face, Bob.

:~)

Dennis

[another bob]

Dennis, it's like Krishna told Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita --

Out of millions, only a few will make the effort. Out of those, only a few will succeed.

When I look at my Mate, sometimes I'm ashamed at how selfish and backward I am. Then I see that's all just more baggage too. At least I can catch it pretty quick, before falling into identification with bozo the clown states.

Basically, Liberation can happen here and now, except for our interest in other things, as you've humbly pointed out.

Moreover, we can't fight with our interests, but rather need to go with them, and see what they're really all about, until they reveal themselves as mere errors of judgment and appreciation (to paraphase one of my Teachers).


:yo:

[songsfortheotherkind]

Hello songsfortheotherkind,


I combed through at least fifty pages of the thread this morning trying to find the one with the list of critical dates you had coming up for May. I couldn’t find it so, I’m working from memory. (Your Child’s 2nd anniversary?) You’ve been in my thoughts. And if I’m wrong, gulp! I am sorry in advance.

She scampers out holding her breath, hoping the voice inside was correct when it said, “Go ahead. Post!”
..........................................http://www.pic4ever.com/images/computer3.gif

Peace and hearts,
WhiteCrowBlackDeer

UPDATE: If this is incorrect, I'll delete ASAP.

*settles on a nearby rock, folding wings around me tightly*

Yes, your instincts were right about the dates and it's lovely of you to remember. It has been a rollercoaster six weeks: death dates on the 13th (nanna), 26th (brother) and 30th April (mum), birthdays on the 9th April (3rd son), 11th (second daughter), 27th (grandson) and 31st (Krystal), then her death date on the 9th of June. Mothers day smack in the middle, which isn't a great day for me because she was the one who made a big deal of it. Lydia's death date on the 9th of September.

Thanks so much for the thoughts. While I know that all is cool with the ones that aren't here anymore, they're not here anymore and I miss hugging my daughters. In the end, it's ok, and it's the time of year when I remember those that aren't in my arms anymore. I am going to take some time out for Krystal's birth and death days. She would have been 29 this year.

No doubt she would have still been the wildest horse in my little herd. :)

[RunningDeer]

To songsfortheotherkind:



*settles on a nearby rock, folding wings around me tightly* big arm hug.
........................http://www.pic4ever.com/images/bighug.gif......................:llama:



No doubt she would have still been the wildest horse in my little herd.
:victory: Rock on Krystal! I send an early Happy Rebirth Day, to you!

And Lydia, since there's only illusionary tick-tock, I say early, early Happy Rebirth Day to you, too! :drum:

Ya, Mom's doing a bang up Sui Generis job! (Shhhh! :secret: Please don't ask me what sui generis means, cuz I still haven't purchased that bigger dictionary.)


Big family hugs. Ready? 1, 2, 3... http://www.pic4ever.com/images/z5.gif
And one more time..................................................http://www.pic4ever.com/images/z5.gif



Hello songsfortheotherkind,
I combed through at least fifty pages of the thread this morning trying to find the one with the list of critical dates you had coming up for May. I couldn’t find it so, I’m working from memory.
.............................http://www.pic4ever.com/images/computer3.gif
Peace and hearts,
WhiteCrowBlackDeer


*settles on a nearby rock, folding wings around me tightly*
Yes, your instincts were right about the dates and it's lovely of you to remember. It has been a rollercoaster six weeks: death dates on the 13th (nanna), 26th (brother) and 30th April (mum), birthdays on the 9th April (3rd son), 11th (second daughter), 27th (grandson) and 31st (Krystal), then her death date on the 9th of June. Mothers day smack in the middle, which isn't a great day for me because she was the one who made a big deal of it. Lydia's death date on the 9th of September.

Thanks so much for the thoughts. While I know that all is cool with the ones that aren't here anymore, they're not here anymore and I miss hugging my daughters. In the end, it's ok, and it's the time of year when I remember those that aren't in my arms anymore. I am going to take some time out for Krystal's birth and death days. She would have been 29 this year.

No doubt she would have still been the wildest horse in my little herd. :)

[PurpleLama]

Dennis, it's like Krishna told Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita --




:yo:

In all actuality, you had to be there, on the grasslands where the battle occurred. The real point of the statement, lost over these eons of time, is that every being makes it, every being really belongs to him, every one from the beginning, until the end. I've a feeling when you get around to it, you will see him face to face. When you do, tell him I said "hi" and we will all have a good laugh.

[Cerridwen]

So I found and took three different free Myers Briggs personality tests, and on all three I came up an INFP. *Laughing* I knew what Onawah posted sounded an awful lot like me. We're called 'The Idealist'.

Here's a link to one of the tests http://net2.com/mb/profile.php I like the detailed info about the 'types' given after.

Here's another http://similarminds.com/jung.html This one was a bit easier for me to take. I liked the way the questions were asked better, but the explanations weren't as good.

I'd be curious what other 'types' are here at the Pub. ;)

[Calz]

I'd be curious what other 'types' are here at the Pub. ;)



Me???

GorBWVBG type ...

[Green or Blue With Very Bad Grammar]


http://www.starwars.com/media/downloads/wallpaper/pw_yoda-a/pw_yoda-a_ipad.png

[Dennis Leahy]

... Myers Briggs personality tests... I came up an INFP. . We're called 'The Idealist'.

...

I'd be curious what other 'types' are here at the Pub. ;)
ENFP ("Idealist, Champion") [maybe they meant "delusions of grandeur"?] hahahahahaha

Dennis

[another bob]

I've a feeling when you get around to it, you will see him face to face. When you do, tell him I said "hi" and we will all have a good laugh.

You Are He! He Are You! You Am Me! I Am We! We Already Happy! We Already Free! Hey Ho, Ain't It So!

[songsfortheotherkind]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_SqhhJb_P3Kk/TQ_4gZ9SLpI/AAAAAAAANJg/11W6M2RXhp4/s1600/Oracle+of+Delphi.jpg

Back in the days when the christian religious crusaders were smearing their religious heteronomy over the faces of the nature worshippers, they would smash the sacred groves, hammer crosses into the ground, splash holy water in the sacred pools while the priests chanted to cast out the energies; they would invade the homes of practitioners and haul them out to denunciation and condemnation by the 'keepers of the faith', those purveyors and servants of the heteronomy, with their stories of moral, racial and spiritual superiority. That energy fueled the crusades, and now fuels the jihads and terrorisms, both muslim, christian, buddhist and secular; they invade each other's sacred spaces, paint their symbols, chant their prayers, bomb the infidels and dissenters. Sui generis and autonomy has its throat cut again and again on a daily basis, all over the planet: it is nothing new, it's been going on since the first homo sapiens were created.

http://blog.aurorahistoryboutique.com/images/oracle-delphi.png

The secular arm has developed other potent weapons: psychiatry and intellectualism, rationalisation and superiority based on argument and 'rightness'. In none of these do sui generis live: look how the life spark is processed out of children through the schooling system, with derision, suppression, put downs, hierarchies of superiority, domination through physical and intellectual control and punishment (in whatever flavour is favoured in the moment), the institutionalised and rationalised superiority that replaces the inner knowing of the individual Being with the smoothly virus laden and denaturing mind blibble of rationalised heteronomy.

http://www.blogcdn.com/blog.moviefone.com/media/2010/11/another-brick-in-the-wall.jpg

Psychiatry, the medical profession and all the other similarly control inspired institutions work the same way.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-SgVeE-ZWHnc/Tjs5d4k1P7I/AAAAAAAACoY/M4Dp2t1q8nE/s1600/cuckoo%2Bnest.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTsBoWcvSouHdm9y-gg7un-0edoN2zc9sALJiOBFAhWI_DHk8o3XA

http://bestuff.com/images/images_of_stuff/210x600/one-flew-over-the-cuckoos-nest-ending-10836.jpg?1173810768

All the engineered methods of control and mutation, against the inner knowing and expression, against the experience of the singular individual, the weight of the absolute truth of the flat earth because everyone knew it was so- Galileo's great heresy regarding the sun, the murder of thinkers and visionaries revolving from one end of the spectrum to the other, first the scientists, then the mystics. Now we have the fusions that are designed to take out multiple targets with one arm- the secular and rationalist nature of the 'new' spirituality; the spiritual psychologists that seek to define the mystical into sound bite sized tv dinner servings, packaged for convenience and with clear instructions so that one doesn't make the mistake of coloring outside the lines, or daring to have purple trees, cerulian skies and rainbow eyed dragons.

Abysmally uninspired, without spirit or intelligence, designed to rob anything living of its signal of life: that is the foundation of those ways of being. There are reasons for that, I'm going to go into those later, but for now suffice to say that I have no interest in the systems that seek to drain and divert the autonomy into another cleverly crafted heteronomy, external authority systems on every level.

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/40280_497324254656_272366049656_6696552_3842506_n.jpg

I Am. That is the beginning of every Creator. That's what I'm interested in. I'm interested in the sui generis of the Being, in singularity, in expression, in experience. I'm not interested in neatly castrated minds that conform with slack jawed obedience to the programming, no matter where it's come from and how impressive the apparent authority.

I'm not interested in that path. I'm here to sing Songs for the Otherkind, the co-creators and bearers of the cosmic signal of creation and life. Let the dead bury their own dead.

Now I'm going to go explore and write about that some more. :D

[Katyani]

I'd be curious what other 'types' are here at the Pub. ;)

That's a good question! : )
A while back, I was wondering about various blood types, but, considering the type of forum we're on, inquiring about that could easily be misunderstood : )
Seriously though, I wonder if there could be any validity to the supposed link between the type of diet that's especially beneficial to a person, and their blood type. In my case, I have type AB negative and thrive on a lacto vegetarian/vegan diet, which, according to some quick googling, seemed to fit into the diet-blood type theory. I'm also slightly hemophobic, just writing blood makes me a bit uneasy. Thought I'd mention that, just in case..

WhiteCrowBlackDeer, thank you so much for the root beer, that was very considerate of you. And delicious. Next time, it's my treat.
Sapphire smoothies for everyone!

Songs, I'm so glad you're here to sing your songs.
I had a special dream a few nights ago. We were in 'Amsterdam', although I think that was just shorthand dream symbolism for a place already below sea level. It looked nothing like 3D Amsterdam. We were in a cafe' - not a coffeehouse : ) I rolled my eyes and sighed a couple of times, waiting for you. You were busy ordering this and that from the menu, talking on the phone etc. We were on our way to this place at the bottom of the sea. I knew some people who had already been there, and was full of expectations. This place was it. Finally, we faced each other, holding hands, and began the journey. The water was lovely, warm and with shimmering shades of green. I had taken a deep breath to last me until the sea floor, but midway, I realized it wouldn't hold all the way. At that point, I began to breathe, a different kind of oxygen. It was easy, very fresh and invigorating.
I don't know if we reached that place, it may take a couple of more dreams.

http://www.vattenkikaren.gu.se/fakta/arter/cnidaria/overcnid/dykaau.jpeg

[Calz]

Next time, it's my treat. Sapphire smoothies for everyone!




Ummmm ... Sapphire Smoothies ... :hungry:

My kids will follow you anywhere ... especially my 10 year old ... :nod:


http://www.alligatorice.com/img/full_cups/blue.jpg

[songsfortheotherkind]

Songs, I'm so glad you're here to sing your songs.
I had a special dream a few nights ago. We were in 'Amsterdam', although I think that was just shorthand dream symbolism for a place already below sea level. It looked nothing like 3D Amsterdam. We were in a cafe' - not a coffeehouse : ) I rolled my eyes and sighed a couple of times, waiting for you. You were busy ordering this and that from the menu, talking on the phone etc. We were on our way to this place at the bottom of the sea. I knew some people who had already been there, and was full of expectations. This place was it. Finally, we faced each other, holding hands, and began the journey. The water was lovely, warm and with shimmering shades of green. I had taken a deep breath to last me until the sea floor, but midway, I realized it wouldn't hold all the way. At that point, I began to breathe, a different kind of oxygen. It was easy, very fresh and invigorating.
I don't know if we reached that place, it may take a couple of more dreams.

http://www.vattenkikaren.gu.se/fakta/arter/cnidaria/overcnid/dykaau.jpeg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-RQIIzEW7W2Q/T6WXpZ64KAI/AAAAAAAAAYU/yN1yEgvKowE/s320/mystery.jpg

http://i52.tinypic.com/2801bp2.jpg%5B/url%5D

http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/133/3/e/3efbc925357982e6656539b9743dcf81-d4tbhgv.png

[PurpleLama]

... Myers Briggs personality tests... I came up an INFP. . We're called 'The Idealist'.

...

I'd be curious what other 'types' are here at the Pub. ;)
ENFP ("Idealist, Champion") [maybe they meant "delusions of grandeur"?] hahahahahaha

Dennis

That is me, too!




I've a feeling when you get around to it, you will see him face to face. When you do, tell him I said "hi" and we will all have a good laugh.

You Are He! He Are You! You Am Me! I Am We! We Already Happy! We Already Free! Hey Ho, Ain't It So!


Exactly!

[Curt]

No surprises here.

I'm another INFP.

We're not a common bunch, and yet we seem disproportionately well-represented here in the Pub.

Maybe Songsy is some sort of INFP-whisperer.

;)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_1dKoCQlxY

[Alekahn]

Fellow INFP wandering through the Pub! :cool:

16489
Dancing on the ruins...
1649016491

eKnN8ODcVgo

[songsfortheotherkind]

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs40/f/2009/020/a/9/terrarium_by_Wespenfresser.jpg

The Otherkind :surprising the beejums out of underestimators since the Original Invasion.

[Carmody]

By the way, I don't really get them either, but I also enjoy them tremendously...:nod:

The great Poet Ikkyu once said, "The only koan is you!"

Ramana suggested that the best method was simply to inquire, "Who am I?"

The point was not to come up with some intellectual response, but to let the question act like a diamond drill, burrowing through layers of superimposed beliefs and notions, all temporary self-images, until finally reaching the live core at the heart, beyond mind's smoke screen. Only then could you recognize your true nature, stripped of all interpretation and conceptual encrustation.

Oh yeah, I know their purpose, they're just not my cup of tea on the path of the ongoing awakening process. Now when you get into the realms of "The only koan is you", and the method of simply inquiring "who am I?", well now we're talking.



In the Sanzen Room, where Zen Masters conduct such formal interviews with students, they require the student to answer with their whole being. Mere verbal play is rewarded with a quick dismissal, if lucky, or even a blow. At Mt. Baldy Zen Monastery, my first few months' answers to the initial koan he gave me were gently laughed off, and often I was dismissed before I could even open my mouth.

After exhausting every conceivable approach, I was left with an interior devastation that I could not have imagined. Somehow, the inquiry proceeded regardless, on a level I had never known, nor can even now describe. More months followed, and I became very quiet, absorbed in an internal process deeper than thought.

The thinking mind was breached early one morning during Kinhin (15 minute walking meditation interspersed between hour-long sitting sessions). It was during a sesshin (a week-long intense meditation interrupted by 4 visits a day with the Master) . As I walked in the slow procession, shivering in the predawn icy mountain chill, my heart suddenly welled up into my throat, and then something exploded there, and I was overtaken with convulsive sobs, so much so that I had to be led to the side to recover.

All that I had cherished about any sense of self was obliterated in an instant -- as if it had never existed in the first place -- and I stood alone in the universe, which was nothing but my own immense body, within which an unspeakable silent perfection manifested as the immaculate nature of being itself. These are only words for something that words cannot touch.

Tears come even now, in the recollection.

For the next several hours, all I could do was weep with a relief that, again, cannot be described. When it was my turn to go before Roshi, I was still weeping. He took one look at me, skipped the usual demand for an answer to my koan, and smilingly broke into English with, "Ahhh, crying buddha!"

I don't have much memory of the weeks that followed (it felt as if I was in a serene floating world, not even in a body), but about a month later, in Sanzen, when he finally asked for an answer to my koan, I spontaneously shot my arm up and shouted a monosyllabic reply that surprised both of us.

He grinned and said, "So, the flower has finally begun to open!"

Now I was ready to begin in earnest . . . .

About a year later, I had reached a point in my practice in which even the overlay of “zen” on whatever this IS had simply become so excruciating that I walked out of my cabin in the middle of the night, dressed in my thin cotton robe in freezing weather, and not even giving a damn where I was off to.

About an hour later I found myself way up the side of the mountain, well above the small monastery nestled below, but now vaguely heard the faint but growing sound of the monks and students beginning the morning sutra chants, and this infuriated me! I rolled around on the ground, threw rocks in the air, smashed logs into trees, and finally just sat down, numb.

The chanting continued. I began to weep, not because of what the sutras were proclaiming, and not even because of the dearness of the fools down there going on in that strange fusion of one syllable Sanskrit and Japanese that constitutes the traditional zen chants, but just because …. Just because of what? Who the hell knows? I just wept. In those tears, it suddenly struck me how sweet the mountain air was, how fresh the morning breeze, how dazzling the vast blue sky! All my cares fell away like tattered old robes. I felt utterly clear, reborn, in love, but I didn’t know with whom, nor did it matter.

Hours passed. I had stopped weeping and just sat there on a rock, with a huge grin on my face. I missed the morning Sanzen (interview with the master). Roshi sent someone out to look for me. Somehow, I knew this, I “experienced” Roshi beckoning me, so what the hell, who cares, I walked back down the mountain and eventually found myself kneeling in front of him in his room. He sat facing me, studying my face, it seemed, and assessing my state. For the first time, I had no interest in his remarks. Who cares? He’s a bald-headed little man with poor English. I said nothing. He looked at me, I looked at him. There was nothing happening. There had never been anything happening, except this ridiculous game of persona, and frankly, I couldn’t raise an idiot’s thought about any of it.

Contrary to the pop-psych cliché, this was not a form of disassociation, although there were certainly aspects of it that would seem so. I had no “affect”, no sense of any movement in mind, just the immediacy of the moment, of bare attention. All my previous frustration had vanished, and I felt no relation to the person who had stormed up the side of the hill in the middle of the night. There was simply this, without any superimposition. It wasn’t zen, it wasn’t me, it wasn’t any of a thousand names we use to attempt the impossible – describing “this”. Nevertheless, it is no different than what is right now, these fingers typing away, your eyes glancing over the little dots and dashes, earth spinning around the sun, the galaxies turning in vastness, the same vastness that moves these fingers, your eye muscles, our heart.

Roshi finally made a kind of grunt, nodded to me, and I got up and walked out of his room and into myself, and what that is I still can’t say with any words of men or gods, but it's certainly not a problem to be solved nor a riddle to be figured out, and that's fine with me.


:yo:

Micheal Newton talks about how the individual, after death, goes through the intense life review. But, this is done in a space and place....where there is no body to cloud the issue and 'hold the line'- ...with wiring, and instincts as a tied grouping of driven life/avatar force. No life force and avatar system of 'body and associated wiring design and paths' that will attempt to stop those lessons learned in the life review..from being what they really are. Clarity, without the 3d life originated and, for the reader, actual interference, coloration, offset drive... that is so much the backdrop of their integrated existence....that they cannot know it or see it.

Thus, in the Zen and Buddhist, etc way, the lesson can be one of finding the opening but the original pressures that create the disassociation from center (as the given life path has unfolded) are still there, unless addressed.

What I did, is I went into self hypnosis and worked backward through my life and addressed each difficult moment and situation with my 'up to date' eyes and thinking. I went back and re-lived them all, until all emotional turmoil and undesirable 'shift' from each was dissolved. Once it was done with one, I would go one step further back in the personal timeline, to the next shift inducing knot or time/moment.

I went all the way back to earliest childhood, right to the point of birth..and then into the womb..and back through the doorway by which this one came in. This took about 18 months or more, with daily meditative practice tied to kundalini exercises. Just the mix I came up with, is all.

When I was done with that, I was as fresh as the morning dew, in that state you speak of.

Open, clear, no preconceptions, no conceptions, just being.

No bodily interference in the window of life. But.. with kundalini levels..very very high.

I had no idea what to do with the energies and capacities that were available to me, for I was on my own. No direction, no other influence.

So I reasoned.... that due to lack of information, the best I could do, is 'do no harm'.

So I ended up doing what I knew, what I had done. Which is to help those in difficult passing. The compassion I had shown myself was useful. I could then use the same to help others leave this place. People who had such difficulties that if I did not help them, they would not make the passage cleanly. (I was dealing with the ones who would otherwise, not make it, at all)

Simply due to this one having, within them, the note, the vibration, the shifting state required, in order to slip free of the madness into the moment of self compassion and clarity to 'get free' of the bardo, and shall we say..go home.

But what I had, could only be done from inside of them, with them, enjoined with their situation, in the full. An overlay within them and in those horrific moments. The ones that will destroy the balance and cause a loss of a given life lived. energies and lessons that might never have returned to be understood and integrated. And so it was done.

So that is what I did, for nearly a few years. I was in the sleepless state for nearly two years, subject to the whims of the astrological conditions (for the doorway is scalar, dimensional and dimensionless), the electromagnetic/electrostatic ebb and flow of the world.

It was and I was... as I told my mother, when I was 13: "Go anywhere, Be anywhere. Do anything, Be anything. No Limits."

I could only hold that space for so long, while integrating with the general world at large... and after a few years, it broke. I started to slip back into the mundane, the mind was coming back again. But newer, different, repaired from that of the old.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

To conclude, I agree. And, clarification, that is borne of my experience.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

To think that one can come to some understanding of the backdrop of life and then launch into a creationist mode is very very likely nothing more than an ego/body/doorway/ avatar trying to reinstate itself as being in control.

Something running totally rampant.

Thus the warning that the elitists get. They have the same issue:

To do this sort of thing from a more evolved state of knowing... and then..... the costs will be and are, much higher.

An extremely costly mix of knowledge and ignorance.

Listening to:

cgxYOOLLLFE

[PurpleLama]

I have heard you speak to this, before, Carmody, but never so succinctly. Thank you. Someone should cross post that, quote and all, to ulli's thread, IMO.

[Curt]

A little light afternoon entertainment from the genius of Loony Tunes

"Chester and Spike"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqaeYAIMZj0&feature=related

[Carmody]

I have heard you speak to this, before, Carmody, but never so succinctly. Thank you. Someone should cross post that, quote and all, to ulli's thread, IMO.

Of course, that was on my mind, right from the start......

[Borden]

IBH97ma9YiI

[another bob]

I've a feeling when you get around to it, you will see him face to face. When you do, tell him I said "hi" and we will all have a good laugh.

You Are He! He Are You! You Am Me! I Am We! We Already Happy! We Already Free! Hey Ho, Ain't It So!


Exactly!


Yep -- folks aspire to be some kind of cosmic signal of creation and life, without accepting that they are also that which appears to be abysmally uninspired, without spirit or intelligence, designed to rob anything living of its signal of life.

We are ALL OF IT, and yet we also transcend both polarities. It is a grand paradox, only resolved in clear recognition. Such recognition is not gained by wishing for it either. It's only realized in the purifying fires of the utmost humility.

[another bob]

Micheal Newton talks about how the individual, after death, goes through the intense life review. But, this is done in a space and place....where there is no body to cloud the issue and 'hold the line'- ...with wiring, and instincts as a tied grouping of driven life/avatar force. No life force and avatar system of 'body and associated wiring design and paths' that will attempt to stop those lessons learned in the life review..from being what they really are. Clarity, without the 3d life originated and, for the reader, actual interference, coloration, offset drive... that is so much the backdrop of their integrated existence....that they cannot know it or see it.

Thus, in the Zen and Buddhist, etc way, the lesson can be one of finding the opening but the original pressures that create the disassociation from center (as the given life path has unfolded) are still there, unless addressed.

What I did, is I went into self hypnosis and worked backward through my life and addressed each difficult moment and situation with my 'up to date' eyes and thinking. I went back and re-lived them all, until all emotional turmoil and undesirable 'shift' from each was dissolved. Once it was done with one, I would go one step further back in the personal timeline, to the next shift inducing knot or time/moment.

I went all the way back to earliest childhood, right to the point of birth..and then into the womb..and back through the doorway by which this one came in. This took about 18 months or more, with daily meditative practice tied to kundalini exercises. Just the mix I came up with, is all.

When I was done with that, I was as fresh as the morning dew, in that state you speak of.

Open, clear, no preconceptions, no conceptions, just being.

No bodily interference in the window of life. But.. with kundalini levels..very very high.

I had no idea what to do with the energies and capacities that were available to me, for I was on my own. No direction, no other influence.

So I reasoned.... that due to lack of information, the best I could do, is 'do no harm'.

So I ended up doing what I knew, what I had done. Which is to help those in difficult passing. The compassion I had shown myself was useful. I could then use the same to help others leave this place. People who had such difficulties that if I did not help them, they would not make the passage cleanly. (I was dealing with the ones who would otherwise, not make it, at all)

Simply due to this one having, within them, the note, the vibration, the shifting state required, in order to slip free of the madness into the moment of self compassion and clarity to 'get free' of the bardo, and shall we say..go home.

But what I had, could only be done from inside of them, with them, enjoined with their situation, in the full. An overlay within them and in those horrific moments. The ones that will destroy the balance and cause a loss of a given life lived. energies and lessons that might never have returned to be understood and integrated. And so it was done.

So that is what I did, for nearly a few years. I was in the sleepless state for nearly two years, subject to the whims of the astrological conditions (for the doorway is scalar, dimensional and dimensionless), the electromagnetic/electrostatic ebb and flow of the world.

It was and I was... as I told my mother, when I was 13: "Go anywhere, Be anywhere. Do anything, Be anything. No Limits."

I could only hold that space for so long, while integrating with the general world at large... and after a few years, it broke. I started to slip back into the mundane, the mind was coming back again. But newer, different, repaired from that of the old.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

To conclude, I agree. And, clarification, that is borne of my experience.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

To think that one can come to some understanding of the backdrop of life and then launch into a creationist mode is very very likely nothing more than an ego/body/doorway/ avatar trying to reinstate itself as being in control.

Something running totally rampant.

Thus the warning that the elitists get. They have the same issue:

To do this sort of thing from a more evolved state of knowing... and then..... the costs will be and are, much higher.

An extremely costly mix of knowledge and ignorance.


Wonderful insights -- you've done some profound work, that's clear to see, and also raise some very good points for consideration!

For example: "What I did, is I went into self hypnosis and worked backward through my life and addressed each difficult moment and situation with my 'up to date' eyes and thinking. I went back and re-lived them all, until all emotional turmoil and undesirable 'shift' from each was dissolved. Once it was done with one, I would go one step further back in the personal timeline, to the next shift inducing knot or time/moment.

I went all the way back to earliest childhood, right to the point of birth..and then into the womb..and back through the doorway by which this one came in. This took about 18 months or more, with daily meditative practice tied to kundalini exercises. Just the mix I came up with, is all."

That's what I call getting to the root of the "core story" of identity, and you have described the process so well! Usually, from what I have seen, there is the revelatory insight first, which then allows for the review, but you seem to have reversed the process, which is pretty rare, to my knowledge.

Great work!


Then you write: I had no idea what to do with the energies and capacities that were available to me, for I was on my own. No direction, no other influence.

So I reasoned.... that due to lack of information, the best I could do, is 'do no harm'.

So I ended up doing what I knew, what I had done. Which is to help those in difficult passing. The compassion I had shown myself was useful. I could then use the same to help others leave this place. People who had such difficulties that if I did not help them, they would not make the passage cleanly. (I was dealing with the ones who would otherwise, not make it, at all)

In Buddhism, this is called the birth of Bodhicitta, the aspiration to serve all beings in their passage, and only awakens truly (as opposed to "idiot compassion") when one has cleared their own books to a large extent. Wonderful!


Then you note: I could only hold that space for so long, while integrating with the general world at large... and after a few years, it broke. I started to slip back into the mundane, the mind was coming back again. But newer, different, repaired from that of the old.

Yes, it is very rare that even the more profound awakenings are not eventually accompanied by such slipping back, and there will be some "flip flop" until the root of the story is severed. Mind can co-opt even the most brilliant insights, and so relaxed but alert vigilance is always needed.


You finish by stating: To think that one can come to some understanding of the backdrop of life and then launch into a creationist mode is very very likely nothing more than an ego/body/doorway/ avatar trying to reinstate itself as being in control.

Something running totally rampant.


Bingo!!!


Thanks so much, Brother -- inspiring contribution!

[PurpleLama]

_yHrEykOGpo

[Borden]

Why is it that people like Bob and Carmody feel they can insult others here with no comeback?

Oh, it's because they apparently can.

They've been doing it subtly and not so subtly.

If you two want to talk about your own experiences, explorations and even passionate beliefs that's fine with me, no matter how they may fly in the face of anyone else's, and no matter how interesting or otherwise I may personally find them. We can all do that here. But that's not quite all you've been doing, is it, lads?

As for the teaching part? Well if either of you guys knows how to fix the starter on a lawn-mower you might be of some use to me. Otherwise? Not so much.

[another bob]

Why is it that people like Bob and Carmody feel they can insult others here with no comeback?

Oh, it's because they apparently can.

They've been doing it subtly and not so subtly.

If you two want to talk about your own experiences, explorations and even passionate beliefs that's fine with me, no matter how they may fly in the face of anyone else's, and no matter how interesting or otherwise I may personally find them. We can all do that here. But that's not quite all you've been doing, is it, lads?

As for the teaching part? Well if either of you guys knows how to fix the starter on a lawn-mower you might be of some use to me. Otherwise? Not so much.


72h_LtHg4ow

[Borden]

Thanks Bob,

That's some nice Buddhism there, my friend. If you don't like it, or if it draws attention to something limply unpleasant that you've done ... it's wrong. It must be an ego thing, eh? I can't be enlightened in any way, obviously.

I also love how you've been saving that clip up.

You're a star, Bob. Somehow I knew you wouldn't let me down.

[Carmody]

Why is it that people like Bob and Carmody feel they can insult others here with no comeback?

Oh, it's because they apparently can.

They've been doing it subtly and not so subtly.

If you two want to talk about your own experiences, explorations and even passionate beliefs that's fine with me, no matter how they may fly in the face of anyone else's, and no matter how interesting or otherwise I may personally find them. We can all do that here. But that's not quite all you've been doing, is it, lads?

As for the teaching part? Well if either of you guys knows how to fix the starter on a lawn-mower you might be of some use to me. Otherwise? Not so much.

I cannot antagonize you. Only you can antagonize you. :)

[another bob]

Thanks Bob... Somehow I knew you wouldn't let me down.

Think nothing of it, my Friend -- always glad to be of service, even if it's just clearing the space with a bit of sage to banish the nasties!

:yo:

[meeradas]

... I had stopped weeping...

Man... i have not, yet.

Thank you.

[Alekahn]

16493

16494

16495

[Curt]

A truly great teacher.....

If more Gurus were like this, I would have one

:cool:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eexkcbjPuEY

[Borden]

Why is it that people like Bob and Carmody feel they can insult others here with no comeback?

Oh, it's because they apparently can.

They've been doing it subtly and not so subtly.

If you two want to talk about your own experiences, explorations and even passionate beliefs that's fine with me, no matter how they may fly in the face of anyone else's, and no matter how interesting or otherwise I may personally find them. We can all do that here. But that's not quite all you've been doing, is it, lads?

As for the teaching part? Well if either of you guys knows how to fix the starter on a lawn-mower you might be of some use to me. Otherwise? Not so much.

I cannot antagonize you. Only you can antagonize you. :)

I cannot cause you to believe that you've antagonized me. Only you can cause yourself to believe that you've antagonized me.

[another bob]

16495[/ATTACH]




http://i48.tinypic.com/ouxy7r.jpg

[Marie]

I am humbly stepping into my courage and posting in this awesome thread. I have been admiring the great conversation/experience going on here and I realize that my contribution might seem simplistic but I'm going to go ahead. I was personally drawn to something that Zebra said a while back which is…

“In this *mind drop* state, I feel abundantly simple and in total, unconditional acceptance of all that is. Which happens at the most unexpected moments and .. rarely happens. The most memorable moments for instance have been when I have connected as a mother to my children, joining with them for the first time after giving birth to feed them. And when I just sit back and listen and view others in their awesome selves focused on giving to each other. That puts me in a place of *all is well*”

For me, this is a beautiful expression and one I relate to. There is a simple place where I listen and gain perspective and I can see that there is so much going on, on different ‘levels’ and wow! I notice that even when I don’t relate to something that someone has said, it prompts an inner exploration to find what does feel right for me. So I see the catalysts everywhere and the perfection in that. There have been many times when others have tried to ‘assist’ me and though I am beyond what they are conveying, at times I can be somewhat quiet because I'm simply reading and appreciating their genuine intention to assist. I, mySelf, drive my 'vehicle'.

I have often felt ‘handicapped’ at not being knowledgeable or experienced with various ‘religious’ practices in terms of contributing to some discussions. In reality, I don’t believe it is a handicap at all - it has been my choice - but really a gift because it allows me to feel my way through the myriad of ‘information’ I run across, picking and choosing what feels right for me. I have personally been drawn to staying tethered to the orientation of ‘the child’ which is how we came into this world – open, few to no-thoughts, feeling-oriented, spontaneous. This space, to me, is where my intuition lives and breathes and a sense of joyous 'wonder'. Do I stay here? No but I’d like to :). Life pulls me in and I struggle often with mental gymnastics that get me caught in loops. I am not advocating no-mind really, but more of a base of non-attachment so that openness and fluidity of thought and intuition is present. We are here to create experiences and we create as we go. Just a few thoughts I'm having at the moment...

I like to believe ‘anything is possible’ and the idea of focusing more on what I want to experience.

This is really a big thank you pub patrons for stimulating my ongoing explorations and learning and inspiring the well-spring within… I am also an INFP :)


8rWY3xt5N6c

[Swan]

I am one of the shy, silent lurkers.

I found Avalon shortly before the Pub opened. I have been a regular ever since: Feeling so much at home.

Borden, Songs, Another Bob, Purple Lama, Chinaski, White Crow Black Deer - you have touched my heart.
Calz Avaretard - you have made me laugh - so often!

This place is - heart opening.

My personal experience of No Mind is Bliss. Connection. As if I finally experience life.

But I am thrilled to hear of others experiences. Actually, I am in awe. I don´t have the words. I hope I can infuse what I feel in the spaces in between.

slips out the back door

[Debra]

I am one of the shy, silent lurkers.

I found Avalon shortly before the Pub opened. I have been a regular ever since: Feeling so much at home.

Borden, Songs, Another Bob, Purple Lama, Chinaski, White Crow Black Deer - you have touched my heart.
Calz Avaretard - you have made me laugh - so often!

This place is - heart opening.

My personal experience of No Mind is Bliss. Connection. As if I finally experience life.

But I am thrilled to hear of others experiences. Actually, I am in awe. I don´t have the words. I hope I can infuse what I feel in the spaces in between.

slips out the back door




Come back soon, Swan. You have a beautiful way with words, what an introduction to your good self.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/11/Mute_Swan_at_Fleet_Pond.jpg

[Debra]

I am humbly stepping into my courage and posting in this awesome thread. I have been admiring the great conversation/experience going on here and I realize that my contribution might seem simplistic but I'm going to go ahead. ...

I like to believe ‘anything is possible’ and the idea of focusing more on what I want to experience.

This is really a big thank you pub patrons for stimulating my ongoing explorations and learning and inspiring the well-spring within… I am also an INFP :)


Marie, express, express - please. All is possible. Inspiration leads to many interesting manifestations. Hope you share more here!
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-P53BDhelp9s/Tjqa_mxW5sI/AAAAAAAADqY/mRKTR9qDa-I/s400/quote.creativitiy+takes+courage.jpg

[Calz]

I am one of the shy, silent lurkers.

I found Avalon shortly before the Pub opened. I have been a regular ever since: Feeling so much at home.

Borden, Songs, Another Bob, Purple Lama, Chinaski, White Crow Black Deer - you have touched my heart.
Calz Avaretard - you have made me laugh - so often!

This place is - heart opening.

My personal experience of No Mind is Bliss. Connection. As if I finally experience life.

But I am thrilled to hear of others experiences. Actually, I am in awe. I don´t have the words. I hope I can infuse what I feel in the spaces in between.

slips out the back door


Thank you so much for sharing that Swan :wub:

I lurked for a long time before actually joining Avalon. You might consider posting more often. If you didn't already have an open heart you would not recognize how special this little gathering is.

You would fit right in :grouphug:


http://www.weselezklasa.pl/images/gallery/2/2503_8.jpg

[songsfortheotherkind]

One of the thing that my law studies put me onto was the fascinatingly hideous way that language is contorted in the legal realm: nothing is what it appears to be, a word that in ordinary speech is innocent and clear becomes the carrier of a contortion that can send an individual to prison for a very long time. Lawyers are fully aware of this, and they are aware that ordinary individuals are utterly *unaware* of this language; they know that an individual is contracting into something that they really don't understand, and lawyers are sworn to both uphold the secrecy about these 'tortious conversions' (which means, essentially, twisted contracts) *and* are sworn to uphold the interests of the court, not their client- so when the courts are run by corruption, the court's agents become the duly sworn and obedient carriers of intentional corruption and deception.

The entire system we are surrounded by functions on the same deception and double speak: hidden languages that are used to manipulate and construe others into corners, prisons (real and internal), subjection, submission. It's the language construct that grooms the individual to BE dominated, subjected, manipulated, helpless, cut off from their essence like the child victims of the adult agenda in the Golden Compass and unable to navigate their own autonomy.

The Golden Compass is a brilliant book for getting clear on just what the true intention is of those who promote heteronomy (the subjection to an external authority of any kind) and why that is: interestingly, it isn't until right at the very end of those books that the virus rears its ugly little head and delivers the nasty sting. Until then, it's a brilliant mirror and even in the stinging is also a brilliant mirror, just of a different kind.

There is a subtle manipulation of the use of language that goes on with those who are coming from a hidden agenda. I learned this from my long and intimate associations with psychological/emotional/physical abusers of various colors. I began to observe an interesting pattern with abusers and the use of language to achieve their aims and agendas, which have nothing whatsoever to do with connection, a genuine and sincere interest in the other, a willingness to own their own crap, an honesty about their own crap: no, the agenda of an abuser is much different than this. It's about domination and maintaining a position of power over the one their efforts are being targeted at.

There's a brilliant book by Patricia Evans, “The Verbally Abusive Relationship – How to recognise it and how to respond” that I discovered some years after I'd begun to map the vicious, devious and manipulative way abusers use language. This book helped me to understand language patterns that I had picked up from the abusers in my life and also how this language was being pointed at me by my then partner. It helped me understand the many ways that seemingly straightforward verbal communications were being turned into painful quagmires and bewildering full artillery assaults. The elements that are pertinent to what I'm crafting in this post are the ones I'm going to quote, but if you're interested go here http://married2mrmean.wordpress.com/2011/02/19/the-15-characteristics-of-verbal-abuse/ to discover more.

There is a world of difference between the blunt instrument abuse of the not very intelligent and the subtle, many tentacled abuse of the highly intelligent and aware: think the difference between the common street thug and Hannibal Lector.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-voCTby6P_xQ/TdYpXm0XCTI/AAAAAAAAAJo/YTm63_DXZ04/s1600/hannibal-lecter.jpg

The psychological Hannibals aren't interested in the easy targets; they might engage them in passing but it's only on the way to their real focus- there's no victory in kicking a puppy. The real attraction lies in the signal that is strong, and intelligent in itself; that's where particular types of abusers are going to be attracted to. The Hannibals know masterfully how to insert themselves into the environments they stalk; they are the charming and attentive man at the beginning of the relationship, a listener, witty, kind, helpful.

In the realm of abuse psychology, this is called grooming. All abusers do it, it's one of the ways that they identify themselves over time, to the observant eye. They go into their chosen realm, be it a relationship with an individual, a group, an organisation or an entire country, and they're playing the part. They all know how to do it because it's part of their skillset that supports their agenda. It's the mild mannered exterior of the serial killer living quietly in an unsuspecting suburban setting, nodding to the neighbours with a slightly shy and awkward smile, the boy next door patting the dog and calling everyone 'ma'am'; it's the cultured and urbane exterior of an internally hissing and slitherin' monstrous nature that seeks to consume others for the sake of nothing more than self pleasure.

Of the fifteen markers mentioned in the link I've posted, there are some specifics I'd like to have a closer look at. I'm going to change the words so that the idea of 'relationship' is broader and I don't use the word 'victim'.

2. COUNTERING -
As a category of verbal abuse, countering is one of the most destructive in a relationship because it prevents all possibility of discussion, it consistently denies the [other]’s reality and it prevents the one from knowing what the other thinks about anything.

An abuser who constantly counters seems only to think the opposite of [the other]. If she (or he) says anything directly or expresses thoughts on something, the abuser will say it is the opposite. What he is really saying is “No, that’s not the way it is” even about [the other's] most personal experience of something.

This shows up in interesting ways that are connected to the next one, discounting.

3. DISCOUNTING-
Discounting denies the reality and experience of the [other] and is extremely destructive. The verbal abuser discounts the other's experience and feelings as if they were worth nothing. He will say something that gives the message “Your feeling and experiences are wrong, they are worth nothing.” Such as – “You’re making a big deal out of nothing, you always jump to conclusions, you can’t take a joke, you don’t know what you’re talking about, you take everything the wrong way.”

In combination, these two are potent. When the abuser is using intellectualisation as a further platform for discounting and countering, they can cloud the situation in a storm of noise that is intended to confuse and silence the other. The idea is never true co-creation, connection, genuine heartspace and communication- it's about the agenda of the abuser.

In a forum such as this, abusers are going to reveal themselves through discounting words that either blatantly or more insidiously discount the reality of the other as being in some way less than the position of the abuser; they point out the 'reality' of the other's experience, they demonstrate how it's *really* this inferior thing here, that the abuser has the 'true' knowledge and understanding while the other is just someone in need of some kind of enlightenment that, funnily enough, the abuser can provide and is going to do so, whether such 'enlightenment' is requested or not.

7. JUDGING AND CRITICISING -
The verbal abuser may judge the other and then express his judgement in a critical way. If the other objects, the abuser may tell her that he is just pointing out something to be helpful, when in reality he may be expressing his lack of acceptance of her.

Most verbal abuse carries a judgmental tone.

Statements which begin with “The trouble with you is…” are judgmental, critical and abusive.
Statements which begin with “Your problem is….” are judgmental, critical and abusive.
Critical “stories” about your mistakes or actual lies about you which embarrass you in front of others are abusive.

'Helpful' comments designed to 'correct' thinking, particularly when such advice has not been requested, are abusive. Continuing to blanket a perspective at any individual who has specifically requested that such perspective be left out of the equation is abusive behaviour. These behaviours come from a mind of molasses designed to crabpot others back into the line the abuser thinks others should be in- subjected to the abuser's world view. Every time a superior position is taken, the individual is revealing their true nature and intention, which in turn reveals them to be nothing more than an obedient servant of the viral program of hierarchy, heteronomy and domination.

It's everywhere around us. It's one of the reasons language transformation tools such as Non-Violent Communication (NVC), compassionate communication and others have been created; there is the growing understanding that within the mechanisms of language as its currently used, the seeds of domination, control, subjugation and other abusive patterns are carried. These new ways of communication are a response designed to explore the possibility of a language that is empowering and honoring of the sui generis of all Beings, giving each individual the tools necessary for the psychological aikido one needs to send aside the distortions of abusers and the virus.

As a lover of the sui generis, I am also a lover of truly powerful and clear language that allows no space for language to be used to deny or distort the Being and expression of another. When an individual brings that sort of interaction into a space, they are flagging their true intention, agenda and purpose. Sui generis language seeks to honor the experience of *all* Beings, to create bridges wherever possible, to create the space where seven billion different perspectives are not a cause for conflict- actually, the space of infinite possibility manifesting itself constantly without there being any conflict necessary- that's what I'm interested in and what the majority here at the Pub are interested in.

Any use of language that, covertly or overtly, reveals a negative intention and purpose towards another, or that demonstrates the hallmarks of abusive patterns, is a way that the speaker reveals what truly moves inside.

Sometimes it's impossible, when you know the abuser style and aren't vulnerable to it, to not have a sense of mischief...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9oeG_rN8eY

and that only goes so far.

The Pub was established as a haven from dogma. Those who insist on bringing dogma, despite being politely asked not to, reveal themselves to be agents of a different kind. There's only so long that the grooming can go on- eventually, the itch will need to be scratched- the thing that abusers don't quite get is that they are their own fleas, so they go questing for those to consume because they know they'll usually find them.

Sometimes, though, they wander into the wrong pub. They confuse a willingness to build bridges with a willingness to tolerate abuse. They confuse openness with gullibility. They confuse an obviously motley looking crew with a stupid motley looking crew. Even Hannibal eventually is undone by his own hunger. All abusers are because they serve their purpose and become redundant.

Sui generis level awareness. The best flea bomb in town.

[Playdo of Ataraxas]

Why is it that people like Bob and Carmody feel they can insult others here with no comeback?

Oh, it's because they apparently can.

They've been doing it subtly and not so subtly.

If you two want to talk about your own experiences, explorations and even passionate beliefs that's fine with me, no matter how they may fly in the face of anyone else's, and no matter how interesting or otherwise I may personally find them. We can all do that here. But that's not quite all you've been doing, is it, lads?

As for the teaching part? Well if either of you guys knows how to fix the starter on a lawn-mower you might be of some use to me. Otherwise? Not so much.

Replace the spark plug and clean the air filter. Usually works for me.

[Playdo of Ataraxas]

_yHrEykOGpo

Monkey gone to heaven, eh?

[Calz]

Well if either of you guys knows how to fix the starter on a lawn-mower you might be of some use to me. Otherwise? Not so much.

Replace the spark plug and clean the air filter. Usually works for me.


Need to think outside dah box there peeps ...


http://www.lifewithlevi.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Thinking-Outside-The-Box-1024x768.jpg

http://www.stevestenzel.com/photos2/ff_lawn_mowing_1.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-crygftr8wKw/Te6MFeFrG_I/AAAAAAAADMU/8YA84ZBEPsA/s1600/lawnmower_funny.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-KPbKL06SqEE/TfuX4QLUzfI/AAAAAAAAFVk/6LYtfDUL8jk/s400/hahahatak128626271882112782.jpg

[modwiz]

One of the thing that my law studies put me onto was the fascinatingly hideous way that language is contorted in the legal realm: nothing is what it appears to be, a word that in ordinary speech is innocent and clear becomes the carrier of a contortion that can send an individual to prison for a very long time. Lawyers are fully aware of this, and they are aware that ordinary individuals are utterly *unaware* of this language; they know that an individual is contracting into something that they really don't understand, and lawyers are sworn to both uphold the secrecy about these 'tortious conversions' (which means, essentially, twisted contracts) *and* are sworn to uphold the interests of the court, not their client- so when the courts are run by corruption, the court's agents become the duly sworn and obedient carriers of intentional corruption and deception.

The entire system we are surrounded by functions on the same deception and double speak: hidden languages that are used to manipulate and construe others into corners, prisons (real and internal), subjection, submission. It's the language construct that grooms the individual to BE dominated, subjected, manipulated, helpless, cut off from their essence..........



All law other than common law is built on this weasel worded bedrock. The bars of our prison are built with these words and the real wardens are not so much the lawyers and judges, but the masses who take it seriously instead of laughing them out of existence. The Second Amendment allows for such humor.

You have offered a huge contribution in these few words, Songs. The importance of understanding this cannot be overestimated. Grokking this concept causes the walls of the prison to crack and the virus to tremble.

[Debra]

Borden, Cerridwen, Songs, Whitecrowblackdeer, Another Bob, Calz

My timing sucks but I wish to thank you for the acknowledgement of my recent post. All of you. Your responses were so unexpected.

Honestly, I feel very clunky when I write, as I do mostly in life. I don´t think I am the only one with this special condition. A result of this for me, tells me something. When the urge to say something comes from a place of quiet surrender within, then know for yourself that it must be coming from the heart. Without connection to this place, it´s a mind job trying to save itself. In that state, I am not waving, I´m drowning.

My reminder for the day: stay true to yourself, tell it like it is. This is what I see, what I hear, what I think, what I feel. Speak for yourself only, and let others do the same. Any more, is not necessary.

Oh, except one thing: keep looking for that smile - the lighter side, is fruitfully beautiful :p

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/s320x320/542892_10150702206751299_69132076298_9668481_1326262511_n.jpg

As the occasional *weekend* buddhist, I love this one.

[songsfortheotherkind]

All law other than common law is built on this weasel worded bedrock. The bars of our prison are built with these words and the real wardens are not so much the lawyers and judges, but the masses who take it seriously instead of laughing them out of existence. The Second Amendment allows for such humor.

You have offered a huge contribution in these few words, Songs. The importance of understanding this cannot be overestimated. Grokking this concept causes the walls of the prison to crack and the virus to tremble.

Thank you for that. :)

As further sharing of my perspective, I do not even support the common law, which is based on the ancient concept of 'an eye for an eye'. Recently I was researching something on the internet and came across an image that horrified me so much I was stopped in my tracks. At first I thought I was seeing a medical procedure that was being undertaken for the sake of the individual it was being done to. I was utterly wrong.

What I was actually looking at was a picture of a man who was awake and aware, but numbed, while one of his eyes was being removed by a doctor carrying out a court order. The court is Islamic. The punishment was under the common (or 'god's law) law that Islam- and most fundamentalist religions- operate under. In this case the man was losing only one eye. In many other cases both eyes are removed.

The photo was taken last year.

I have no illusions that anything other embracing the principles of sui generis of ALL Beings *and* DO NO HARM will result in the peace that many say they seek. Until we clean up our language, let our 'yes mean yes, no mean no' and speak our truth with one another, the virus will spread. It is my deepest and sincerest intention to be a vehicle for virus antidote, however that manifests. My law studies have made it abundantly clear to me that *any* system of external authority, be it religious, educational, government, philosophy, parental, law or in one individual thinking they are superior to another for *any* reason, is nothing but a carrier of the virus and its dead nature. All courts, lawyers, solicitors and law systems speak a corrupt and self serving language. So does religion.

All Beings are born with their own unique signal. As individuals we're gifted the unique opportunity of Shining towards one another in recognition and celebration of that unique signal, to dance co-creatively with one another, to evolve the Life.

Or, the individual can choose something far less interesting. It's certainly a time of choosing, these days- weasel words with no life in them, or the language of Life and Essence that springs from the very core of every sui generis Being...

http://in5d.yolasite.com/resources/cc.jpg

:)

[Calz]

Honestly, I feel very clunky when I write ...




Zebra biscuits ... :gaah:

You write beautifully not only here but when you bravely venture out into the wilderness ...


http://www.writingdesksonline.com/prodimages-cdls/btl/btl-603070-L.jpg

http://www.wilkinsonplus.com/content/ebiz/wilkinsonplus/invt/0303156/0303156_l.jpg

[songsfortheotherkind]

Honestly, I feel very clunky when I write, as I do mostly in life. I don´t think I am the only one with this special condition.

I think pretty much everything I write, in terms of its technical skill, is rubbish. I've destroyed more near completed novels and film scripts, poetry, prose and essays than I care to think about. It is a lot. I try not to do that these days, knowing my harsh internal critic is full of sh!t. I love your thoughtful, gentle writing- I look at it and feel like my own is gauche and gangly teenager by comparison, with some stalking and sword bearing sweaty little wild haired gnomish woman thrown in for good measure. *grins* It's why I'm into life Art- so many amazing works to choose from.


My reminder for the day: stay true to yourself, tell it like it is. This is what I see, what I hear, what I think, what I feel. Speak for yourself only, and let others do the same. Any more, is not necessary.

stay true to Self- it's a gorgeous way of Being. :)


Oh, except one thing: keep looking for that smile - the lighter side, is fruitfully beautiful :p

They truly are- it's one of the reasons I love so many Beings here at the Pub, the amount of times I've sat at the computer screen and laughed until my sides are sore. Borden in conversation has on many occasions made me laugh until I've literally fallen off my chair, CurtisW has made me spit my tea all over the computer screen and spend the next few minutes choking and laughing simultaneously. Calz is a blue gem all of his own. Lama is the purple gem. What good is a band of superbeings if none of them has any sense of humour about it? Come on- they wear their undies on the *outside*, ffs...

If I could, I'd send you avocadoes still warm from the sun, and pawpaws picked fresh that morning, the sweetest mandarins ever from the 30 year old tree in my backyard and the smell of the sea when the whales are just coming in.

[Debra]

If I could, I'd send you avocadoes still warm from the sun, and pawpaws picked fresh that morning, the sweetest mandarins ever from the 30 year old tree in my backyard and the smell of the sea when the whales are just coming in.


Thank you Songs .. it´s gift time .. synchronizing my vision board

http://www.seenobjects.org/images/mediumlarge/2004-06-17-mandarin-tree-2.jpg

http://images.travelpod.com/users/hifi1609/1.1245450165.paw-paw-tree.jpg

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1311/1426765011_3273c4a332_z.jpg

http://i-cdn.apartmenttherapy.com/uimages/kitchen/2010_08_02-AvocadoToast2.jpg

[songsfortheotherkind]

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/178/3/1/You__re_by_Mr__Jack.jpg

Hmm, now what shall I do next...


or do I really mean who...

[Curt]

;)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmin5WkOuPw

[Fred Steeves]

The Pub was established as a haven from dogma. Those who insist on bringing dogma, despite being politely asked not to, reveal themselves to be agents of a different kind. There's only so long that the grooming can go on- eventually, the itch will need to be scratched- the thing that abusers don't quite get is that they are their own fleas, so they go questing for those to consume because they know they'll usually find them.

Sometimes, though, they wander into the wrong pub. They confuse a willingness to build bridges with a willingness to tolerate abuse. They confuse openness with gullibility. They confuse an obviously motley looking crew with a stupid motley looking crew. Even Hannibal eventually is undone by his own hunger. All abusers are because they serve their purpose and become redundant.


Hi Songs, very well written post, and there is much truth in the content that we would all ignore at our own peril. If I might though, let me just add my own little simple man's sprinkling of flavor to your thoughts, and see what you think.

Two things really. 1) I'm convinced that there is some kind of energetic engaging these days, call it what you will, that has a lot of us feeling like we are living in a pressure cooker. I touched on it briefly in a previous post.

2) People under pressure, especially constant pressure, may from time to time find themselves acting in ways that, upon further reflection, were well below the normally high standards they set for themselves. This happened with yours truly on a different forum a few days ago, and was quite the humbling experience to see just how quickly we can fall. Formal apologies came in short order. What else can you do?

Which actually leads me to a 3rd point. I often get this little vision that we're all on The Long Walk together. The closer we get to our destination, the more exhausted we are, and the more difficult the terrain. We're a team, and that's the only way to make it all the way. Even the strongest amongst us stumbles and falls occassionally, and needs a helping hand back up. Maybe even from the one whose toes they had just stepped on.

Anyway, I just thought this should be considered as well, in light of recent events. Maybe someone is manipulating, or maybe someone is just having them a bit of a stumble.

[songsfortheotherkind]

;)

http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/028/9/b/firestarter_by_alicelitwin-d389aiv.jpg

http://th06.deviantart.net/fs10/PRE/i/2006/160/3/2/Firestarter_by_sumeco.jpg

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs25/i/2008/079/1/b/Firestarter_by_Roger_Jordison.jpg

fiery little dragon woman...

[Katyani]

Well, one can't swim through liquid emerald every day. Some days are for taking to the skies and engaging fire.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF8cdfL5m1c

[PurpleLama]

I am one of the shy, silent lurkers.

I found Avalon shortly before the Pub opened. I have been a regular ever since: Feeling so much at home.

Borden, Songs, Another Bob, Purple Lama, Chinaski, White Crow Black Deer - you have touched my heart.
Calz Avaretard - you have made me laugh - so often!

This place is - heart opening.

My personal experience of No Mind is Bliss. Connection. As if I finally experience life.

But I am thrilled to hear of others experiences. Actually, I am in awe. I don´t have the words. I hope I can infuse what I feel in the spaces in between.

slips out the back door

For you, and those silent who see value where yet others see none, the "no mind" conversation was taken up Here and Now....

where some have seen subtle abuse, others have seen heart felt sharing

sui generis allows for that, I suppose....

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?30405-Here-and-Now...What-s-Happening&p=495162&viewfull=1#post495162

[songsfortheotherkind]

Hi Songs, very well written post, and there is much truth in the content that we would all ignore at our own peril. If I might though, let me just add my own little simple man's sprinkling of flavor to your thoughts, and see what you think.

Two things really. 1) I'm convinced that there is some kind of energetic engaging these days, call it what you will, that has a lot of us feeling like we are living in a pressure cooker. I touched on it briefly in a previous post.

2) People under pressure, especially constant pressure, may from time to time find themselves acting in ways that, upon further reflection, were well below the normally high standards they set for themselves. This happened with yours truly on a different forum a few days ago, and was quite the humbling experience to see just how quickly we can fall. Formal apologies came in short order. What else can you do?

I have done the same, and owned it, as have many here both publicly and privately- one of the things that I love about the Clan here is that we're willing to be raw and bloody with each other, some more so than others. The key here is the short order. I have experienced nuclear holocaust fallout here from some, and the wondrous experience of working through said fallout, because there is a commitment to both the process, the sui generis and each other.

This is different. This has been made very very personal, repeatedly. That indicates something different going on; granted, it may not be quite as visceral as what I wrote about *and* there's enough elements to warrant the observations. I am not a haven for crap, virus or agenda. The pointedness has been in my direction on more than one occasion, and with increasing negative energy. I've now called it out. I'm not what they describe me as, not by a long shot- just because I *look* wobbly at times doesn't mean that's my baseline Self, it's me being willing to be messy and open as my way of creating intimacy.

I was never kidding about the horns.


Which actually leads me to a 3rd point. I often get this little vision that we're all on The Long Walk together. The closer we get to our destination, the more exhausted we are, and the more difficult the terrain. We're a team, and that's the only way to make it all the way. Even the strongest amongst us stumbles and falls occassionally, and needs a helping hand back up. Maybe even from the one whose toes they had just stepped on.

Fred, I love that you have described this, because at the heart of things this is what I was looking for when I created the Pub: I wanted kin, and fellowship, and exactly what you are describing. It's precisely because of this exhaustion and intimacy that we cannot be misled by old paradigm manipulations into tolerating the presence of *any* wormtongues, either in us or in others: I have had individuals I love here call me on stuff and sometimes they've seen true and sometimes I've been a mirror for the virus within them but what has been important is that we've never let each other go in the face of the balrogs. I do not want to be holding my hand out to a Being that will suddenly gollum on me and eat my arm: if that happens, stupid me, because I've been ignoring the warning signs all along.


Anyway, I just thought this should be considered as well, in light of recent events. Maybe someone is manipulating, or maybe someone is just having them a bit of a stumble.

Beautiful thoughts and expression, Fred, and I deeply appreciate your expressing them because they speak of a vision of Publians that will have each others backs, fronts and sides in the most beautiful way. Integrity, intention and coherence are powerful elements of a Being, without question, and I really like the quiet strength of yours.

Salut, friend.

[songsfortheotherkind]

Well, one can't swim through liquid emerald every day. Some days are for taking to the skies and engaging fire.


You know it, woman.

http://th01.deviantart.net/fs46/PRE/i/2009/180/3/d/Pyrokinesis_by_Eivind31.jpg

[songsfortheotherkind]

For you, and those silent who see value where yet others see none, the "no mind" conversation was taken up Here and Now....

where some have seen subtle abuse, others have seen heart felt sharing

sui generis allows for that, I suppose....

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?30405-Here-and-Now...What-s-Happening&p=495162&viewfull=1#post495162

thank you for posting that link, PL, I hope it serves well. :)

I want to clarify something if I may- I have absolutely, utterly no issue with discussion of *any* way of Being that does no harm and originally there was much acceptance and tolerance of the no-mind view; it was simply another way of Being and sui generis is the space that holds the infinite possibility in ALL its no harm forms. This changed when the personal judgements came in.

Borden put it beautifully here-


If you two want to talk about your own experiences, explorations and even passionate beliefs that's fine with me, no matter how they may fly in the face of anyone else's, and no matter how interesting or otherwise I may personally find them. We can all do that here.

When these philosophies and perspectives are used as a platform for judging and maligning another Publian, that's a bit different. Subjective is subjective, not heteronomy. I'm not the kind of woman to put up with it for long and I *did* ask nicely.

Yes, always yes to the infinite perspectives and expressions that are embedded in do no harm- unless it's absolutely necessary.

[songsfortheotherkind]

http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/062/3/7/dark_dryad_by_brookegillette-d4rkms9.jpg

[Alekahn]

Skin songs. Soulful maps written on the body.
Skillful markings, a testament of our circuitous journey unfolding.
Always in creative, lively process.
Indelible designs of the heart.

16505
16506
16507
Buenas companeros...You all are amazing! Do you know?
So often utterly speechless you leave me, with this intimate searching...
this unprecedented mapping which is diligently, fearlessly,
intricately being woven. Much respect to all of you.
16508

For the Publians listening pleasure...
_ljVDCdNZmE

[Borden]

I'll tell you what, Alekahn, a clip of a girl playing the didgeridoo is not something I would have gone out of my way to look for ... but I found it strangely affecting. Thank you for posting this. I'm sure I heard somewhere that the didgeridoo is supposed to be for communicating with spirits. Did I really read that or have I gone completely berserk? Either way, the sound is unusual and made my ears prick up.

[onawah]

I am just dropping in here to add my little contribution, and then away again, which seems to be the best method of engagement I have found so far for me to employ on the forum.
Though I may be "on the wing", still I feel grounded and sure of what I am seeing and feeling here.
I am grateful to Songs for her post #3171.
It feels to me that this thread finally really arrived at the heart of the matter that Songs has been trailblazing so many (seemingly) circuitious paths to.
Brava! Your work has proved so very fruitful for me, and I feel sure, for everyone here.
Songs spoke from the heart, and her words are true.
To Zebra: the heart sees clearly, and many words may not be necessary when one has truly seen and felt what the heart sees and feels.
To Borden: many thanks for saying what so needed to be said, and doing so both courageously and humorously.
To Purple Lama, who wrote on another thread:
It is ever and always a matter of great amusement to me that people persist in the notion that what is divine must be gender specific. It seems to me to be just another round of my god is better than your god.
If that was in reference to my post http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?42360-Welcome-to-The-Pub-At-the-End-of-the-Universe.&p=494270#post494270
May I respectfully suggest that you have perhaps missed my point?
To Fred: thanks for being a bridge over troubled waters. You also have been speaking and seeing from the heart.

On reflection, I came up with this image regarding my experience with Zen and how that relates to what has been up for discussion here lately.
Zen is like an express flight to a wonderful destination.
You get there very quickly, but unlike a first class scenic railroad trip, you can miss an awful lot along the way.
Perhaps it might be a good idea to drop all judgement, go back, and see a bit of what those on another path to that wonderful destination might have experienced along their way.
You may be surprised how enriching that can be.

[Carmody]

I'll tell you what, Alekahn, a clip of a girl playing the didgeridoo is not something I would have gone out of my way to look for ... but I found it strangely affecting. Thank you for posting this. I'm sure I heard somewhere that the didgeridoo is supposed to be for communicating with spirits. Did I really read that or have I gone completely berserk? Either way, the sound is unusual and made my ears prick up.

Complex harmonic note structures that start low and carry into higher frequency harmonics are an essential part of dimensional energetic transfer.

Due to the long note structure, in time, and the direct coupling of such to the chest cavity, this translates to the area of prana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prana).

So yes, it is a workable thing, IMO and IME.

This suggests, that with effort in the right direction, that this may enable one to become a Breatharian by such technique. But only suggests, as Breatharian technique is different and the two exchange systems may not overlap in effect or complex considerations.

[Marie]

Thanks Alekahn. Last weekend, at a hotel with my daughter and her friends for her birthday, I was admiring the proliferation of body art at the pool, and sitting next to us was a man who had one kind of like this... it was magnificent.



http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa348/Rooben323/5.jpg

[Alekahn]

16511

Magnificent indeed, the art of the body.

16512


"I am a seed that was sown from the past...
and I shall never be lost...I will never be lost."

He toa taumata rau
(Bravery has many resting places)

3BoNmpvkavo

[Debra]

You have me going now Alekahn. Decisions to have a tattoo .. that has always impressed upon me the question: WHY?

http://hurricanevanessa.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/tumblr_m4j3c2KM2N1ruqpyqo1_1280.jpg

Almost went there myself once .. but pulled out - last minute - because I felt I was only really doing it to fit in, rather than to stand out.

I love the stories though - and will still ask even complete strangers how they came to get their tattoo or tattoos.

http://hurricanevanessa.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/tumblr_m3byceAu2B1ruqpyqo1_r3_1280.jpg

* These illustrations by the way, are from LS: "Pen & Ink is a Tumblr blog by Rumpus managing editor Isaac Fitzgerald and artist Wendy MacNaughton*

[Calz]

I'll tell you what, Alekahn, a clip of a girl playing the didgeridoo is not something I would have gone out of my way to look for ... but I found it strangely affecting. Thank you for posting this. I'm sure I heard somewhere that the didgeridoo is supposed to be for communicating with spirits. Did I really read that or have I gone completely berserk? Either way, the sound is unusual and made my ears prick up.


If you had time to wander through the many pages in the "Up At The Ranch" thread you will find some cool photos of this kind of healing being used by James Gilliland's group at ECETI. In several of the shots you will find "happy" orbs hanging around. Fairly certain that is where this image comes from as well (but not 100% sure).

________________


The main aspects of Didgeridoo Healing:

■ The effects on the Didgeridoo player

■ Moving the Didge over the body of the recipient while playing; Didgeridoo Therapy

■ Didgeridoo Therapy is the use of Didgeridoo sound to enhance the healing capabilities of the body (including animals). The Didgeridoo is an instrument that produces low frequency sound and vibrations we can feel, especially if the end of the instrument is placed close to the body. The “Didge” also seems to produce near infra-sound as is indicated on this chart by the small spikes near 0 Hertz.


The Didgeridoo helps people achieve healing results through the principles of ultrasound therapy, entrainment and meditation through the production of tones that range from the ultra low inaudible of 0 hertz to the 1000hertz (2-20hertz is the same frequency of human brain waves ). The broad range of vibration produced by the Didge resonate an ancient and universal tone. These harmonic waveforms are a similar frequency to that of the Sanskirt Om, and our healing didgeridoos are tuned to this sound.

The effects on people listening to a Didgeridoo Anyone in the same space as a didgeridoo being played usually has a healing experience, even though many people would not even be aware of it. People report that they feel relaxed and yet energized when listening to the didgeridoo being played. They describe it as deeply touching, in tune with the world, takes away from thinking, awe inspiring, magical, feels like a voice from the earth, ancient, haunting, powerful, primal, other worldly, mesmerizing, calming, enchanting, soothing, mystical, hypnotic, relaxing, earthly feeling, primordial.


16518


http://healthpeacephilosophy.com/didgeridoo-therapy/


*** adding ***


Found one of them ... (and verifies the other image is from the "Ranch").

16520

[songsfortheotherkind]

http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs49/f/2009/193/1/f/FireStarter_by_thomsontm.jpg

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs34/f/2008/289/2/0/Firestarter_by_Plingeh.jpg

http://th02.deviantart.net/fs42/PRE/i/2009/071/e/1/Firestarter_by_xxdigipxx.jpg

I had a really, really strange and wonderful night, full of avatars of Beings, some whose energetic signatures I'm familiar with and others I was turning my head towards and asking "who are you?. There are some mighty and interesting energies roaming around the Pub at the moment and I for one am loving it.

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs40/f/2009/040/1/3/Titania_by_MattDixon.jpg

We are not human, here...

[Alekahn]

16517


You have me going now Alekahn. Decisions to have a tattoo .. that has always impressed upon me the question: WHY?


A worthy question it is Zebra. The historical answers to that and the myriad stories behind each tat vary widely from culture to culture
(obvious understatement:o).

Personally, for 28 years I had no thought of or desire for the marking of this physical body. Then, my blood brother died tragically and something deep within was catalyzed, which directly led to the beginning of my relationship with the art and ritual/symbology of tattoo (tatu). A classical rite of passage it was at that time. Currently, the reasons and intent have deepened and shifted greatly. "Fitting in" and (drunken?) impulsivity as reasons have never been on the radar for me, yet I have sadly witnessed this as I have been being 'worked on' over the years.

Perhaps you are close once again sister? You seem to be drawn to 'stripes'. :thumb:

[songsfortheotherkind]

The main aspects of Didgeridoo Healing:

■ Didgeridoo Therapy is the use of Didgeridoo sound to enhance the healing capabilities of the body (including animals). The Didgeridoo is an instrument that produces low frequency sound and vibrations we can feel, especially if the end of the instrument is placed close to the body. The “Didge” also seems to produce near infra-sound as is indicated on this chart by the small spikes near 0 Hertz. http://healthpeacephilosophy.com/didgeridoo-therapy/

Thanks for that Calz. I was going to say some of this and also that you will note the woman's didge in the video clip is undecorated compared to the man's didge in the photo. This is the same thing as women not being permitted to do the haka in public- of course, Maori women do the haka in each other's company but only with those they know won't blab. :P I'm not bound by those rules *and* I respect that they matter to others, so I don't play decorated didges or do the haka- in public.

Didge healing is quite stunning to experience. There's a lot of it here in the area I live. For those who would like to learn the circular breathing done for didge playing, many use the 'straw' method: glass of water, straw, see if you can get an unbroken stream of bubbles going by blowing through the straw. I have not mastered circular breathing. I sometimes find ordinary breathing difficult enough. :D

For those who don't have a didge to practice on, Rolf Harris was quite fond of playing a length of pvc pipe with some beeswax around the rim to pad the mouth. I can play the straight pvc part of the vacuum cleaner head but it sounds tinny compared to a decent length piece. As far as I know, there are no prohibitions on women playing a decorated length of pvc pipe. :P

[Calz]

Very interesting Songs.

Not much didgeridoo healing going on in my area although I have several cds with that type of music interlaced with hemi-sync binaural beats (couple pictured). Hard to imagine anywhere close to the same healing levels but is certainly is relaxing.

Our resident Purple Wizard recently suggested that wearing headphones isn't the best way to attempt trance due to them messing with the magnetic field (which makes sense).

http://wacko.strefa.pl/hemi/061.hemi_dreaming_gate.jpg

http://www.sens-original.com/boutique/images_produits/hemi-sync-shamansheart-z.jpg

[Carmody]

DidgeriStu:

BhWkonuoY_U


Oka Gets ya High:

DBBxkWTGZRE

[songsfortheotherkind]

Thank you Songs .. it´s gift time .. synchronizing my vision board

http://images.ljhooker.com/agents/agents_au_live/byronbay_nsw_easterlypoint.jpg

I sit on the headland here, the most easterly point of Australia, and watch the whales come in. I have sat on the beach along from this headland and danced on the windswept sands while the whales breached 50 metres out from shore right in front of me. Around further to the right, not pictured, is Byron Bay itself: you can sit on the beach in the early morning and in the late afternoon and watch the local dolphin pod do its swim by.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_y7t7mh97U3U/TS_T_N89lgI/AAAAAAAAAD8/bfTxx5DOCC8/s1600/chinny.jpg

This is the road I drive along to get to the little town at the base of this Mount, where we are moving to. I live 20 minutes drive just up the coast from here. Here's someone else's impressions of Mullum. This is where I live.

http://impressionsfromdownunder.wordpress.com/2010/02/13/mullumbimby-the-biggest-little-town-in-australia/

http://www.byronbay.com.au/images/com_sobi2/gallery/44/44_image_1.jpg

This is called Protester's Falls, in the Nightcap National Park. I have thrown off my clothes and stood laughing beneath the falling water here, with two equally naked and grinning European backpackers who couldn't speak much English. We understood the language of naked and laughing beneath a waterfall. I've woken up on cold winter mornings to stand out on my verandah and look at this, while listening to the calls of kookaburras and kurrajongs songduelling each other across the valley:

http://www.fkeizer.nl/phpGedview/media/misty%20rain%2011may05.JPG

Perhaps it's time to call everyone home...

*looks over at Cerridwen* I especially think you'd love it here. I would love to beam you all over here! Utterly altruistic reasons, of course. *innocent expression*

[songsfortheotherkind]

Very interesting Songs.

Not much didgeridoo healing going on in my area although I have several cds with that type of music interlaced with hemi-sync binaural beats (couple pictured). Hard to imagine anywhere close to the same healing levels but is certainly is relaxing.

Our resident Purple Wizard recently suggested that wearing headphones isn't the best way to attempt trance due to them messing with the magnetic field (which makes sense).

http://wacko.strefa.pl/hemi/061.hemi_dreaming_gate.jpg

http://www.sens-original.com/boutique/images_produits/hemi-sync-shamansheart-z.jpg

Those look really, really interesting, Calz- I'm really into this sort of brainwave cocking about. :D

I ameliorate the magnetic field distortions with some devices designed to wipe things clean. I use the headphones atm because I don't have speakers good enough to get the effects going well. My cellphone no longer buzzes and does anything strange since I wiped it clean. I don't have fits around the massive powerlines like I used to, although they still annoy the beejums out of me for other reasons.

I'll have to see if I can find this CD. I have heaps of things saved from youtoob, and I'm always on the lookout for more. :D

[Carmody]

The main aspects of Didgeridoo Healing:

■ Didgeridoo Therapy is the use of Didgeridoo sound to enhance the healing capabilities of the body (including animals). The Didgeridoo is an instrument that produces low frequency sound and vibrations we can feel, especially if the end of the instrument is placed close to the body. The “Didge” also seems to produce near infra-sound as is indicated on this chart by the small spikes near 0 Hertz. http://healthpeacephilosophy.com/didgeridoo-therapy/

Thanks for that Calz. I was going to say some of this and also that you will note the woman's didge in the video clip is undecorated compared to the man's didge in the photo. This is the same thing as women not being permitted to do the haka in public- of course, Maori women do the haka in each other's company but only with those they know won't blab. :P I'm not bound by those rules *and* I respect that they matter to others, so I don't play decorated didges or do the haka- in public.

Didge healing is quite stunning to experience. There's a lot of it here in the area I live. For those who would like to learn the circular breathing done for didge playing, many use the 'straw' method: glass of water, straw, see if you can get an unbroken stream of bubbles going by blowing through the straw. I have not mastered circular breathing. I sometimes find ordinary breathing difficult enough. :D

For those who don't have a didge to practice on, Rolf Harris was quite fond of playing a length of pvc pipe with some beeswax around the rim to pad the mouth. I can play the straight pvc part of the vacuum cleaner head but it sounds tinny compared to a decent length piece. As far as I know, there are no prohibitions on women playing a decorated length of pvc pipe. :P

It's the same problem of singing a note with no change in volume or pitch. It's a cross between a loose diaphragm and the diaphragm being the part that modulates the heartbeat chest cavity pressure change...and the lungs expelling, without any heart modulation. Thus, listening to yourself doing the monotonic note, will be a quicker form of feedback aiding the 'getting there', possibly. What you are doing is you are creating a suspension system that is held to be just pliant enough....to absorb the heartbeat pressure modulations, and not the expelling of the air.

It is actually more difficult than vibrato or tremolo, which are 'covers' designed to bypass this issue that happens when humans try to sing perfect notes.

[songsfortheotherkind]

DidgeriStu:

BhWkonuoY_U

this was awesome and made me feel hungry for the forest and midnight dancing around fires.

[Carmody]

That's what those boys are about. that's where they started and that's where they try to stay. they tour the northern hemisphere when home (Australia) is in winter and tour the south when the north is in winter. They try to stay in summer, as much as they can. Perhaps they've slowed down now....

http://oka-band.com/fr_home.cfm

Byron Bay?

Good timing:

Date Time Event Location
Sun Jun 10 4:30 pm – 7:30 pm BRUNSWICK HEADS HOTEL, Sunday Session
Brunswick Heads Hotel, Brunswick Heads, NSW, Australia

[songsfortheotherkind]

http://th02.deviantart.net/fs43/PRE/f/2009/084/f/8/Sebbal_Masquerade_ball_back_by_Sebbal.jpg

[Carmody]

It's a combination of a warning and non-interference kind of thing. You've been informed. The end. Now you can never say that you did not know. :)

[songsfortheotherkind]

Skin songs. Soulful maps written on the body.
Skillful markings, a testament of our circuitous journey unfolding.
Always in creative, lively process.
Indelible designs of the heart.

Buenas companeros...You all are amazing! Do you know?
So often utterly speechless you leave me, with this intimate searching...
this unprecedented mapping which is diligently, fearlessly,
intricately being woven. Much respect to all of you.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=16508&d=1338041979



http://th00.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/i/2010/226/9/7/Spirit_of_the_Rainforest_by_oddballoffun.jpg

There is something very synchronistic about when and how you write here. This morning I got up and you had written things that were so close to words I'd written to someone else in a pm that for a moment I wondered if I'd mistakenly posted the writings on the Pub.

http://www.tattooblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/holly-brewer-facetattoobmp-300x271.jpg

sometimes I turn towards you and wonder 'who are you?', with this way you have of echoing my states of mind and places within that I'm thinking and not sharing publicly in that moment: last night I was writing of patterns beneath the skin, rising to the surface to unlock sacred names and spaces.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=16494&d=1337966215

I love this aspect of Himself.

There is something wondrous that is moving beneath the surface of the Pub. I love the unfolding that is happening, this signal that is becoming stronger.

[songsfortheotherkind]

A little light afternoon entertainment from the genius of Loony Tunes

"Chester and Spike"

You, fire eyes, are an evil genius.

http://songsfortheotherkind.com/Gomez-Addams-raul-julia-18322084-852-480.jpg

elegant co-creation is clearly the most delightful answer.

[songsfortheotherkind]

I am just dropping in here to add my little contribution, and then away again, which seems to be the best method of engagement I have found so far for me to employ on the forum.
Though I may be "on the wing", still I feel grounded and sure of what I am seeing and feeling here.

As Borden said to me once, birds can only fly well when they have a solid relationship with the ground.


I am grateful to Songs for her post #3171.
It feels to me that this thread finally really arrived at the heart of the matter that Songs has been trailblazing so many (seemingly) circuitious paths to.
Brava! Your work has proved so very fruitful for me, and I feel sure, for everyone here.
Songs spoke from the heart, and her words are true.

Thank you. For awhile I got lost in the maze of bridge building, before I remembered that some bridges are actually best left unbuilt. Mordor is, after all, best left isolated. I have found my ground, my voice and my power again, thanks in part to the inspiration of the other gorgeous energies inhabiting the Pub.


Perhaps it might be a good idea to drop all judgement, go back, and see a bit of what those on another path to that wonderful destination might have experienced along their way.
You may be surprised how enriching that can be.

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2009/344/8/3/Holographic_Universe_by_DarkSky666.jpg

The holographic universe inside every Being- what could be more wonderful to explore? When others try to impose their ways on the individual, all the richness of the universe that is singular to that Being is lost. Why would we want to do that to each other?

The infinite Art of infinitely possible minds: the greatest Gallery in existence. :)

[Dennis Leahy]

DidgeriStu: Thanks, Carmody, that hit the spot.


{4 expansive, beautiful, images}

Perhaps it's time to call everyone home...
Thanks, Songsfortheotherkind, I needed that. I really needed that.

Dennis

[Dennis Leahy]

I wonder if Didgeridoo Healing would heal this guy?

Caution: This guy says the "F word" a few times. hehehehehe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vms_6_TSQuc&hd=1
I should not be entertained by this. I should not be entertained by this. I should not be entertained by this.

Dennis

[Carmody]

That's what those boys are about. that's where they started and that's where they try to stay. they tour the northern hemisphere when home (Australia) is in winter and tour the south when the north is in winter. They try to stay in summer, as much as they can. Perhaps they've slowed down now....

http://oka-band.com/fr_home.cfm

Byron Bay?

Good timing:

Date Time Event Location
Sun Jun 10 4:30 pm – 7:30 pm BRUNSWICK HEADS HOTEL, Sunday Session
Brunswick Heads Hotel, Brunswick Heads, NSW, Australia

If you love the music, forget the rest, never mind the rest. Don't miss this show, if you are nearby. I've seen them live and I would not trade their music for any big name band of any kind, at any price.

[songsfortheotherkind]

http://songsfortheotherkind.com/strange%20dragon%20woman%201.jpg


sometimes, the dragon woman lies beneath...

[songsfortheotherkind]

I wonder if Didgeridoo Healing would heal this guy?

It depends where one inserts the didge.


I should not be entertained by this. I should not be entertained by this. I should not be entertained by this.


I'm really glad you are! I love how the tune is all mellowwww, mellowwwwww, plink plink plink and his rage is so heavy metal. He's singing the wrong music.

Is it just me, or does swearing sound particularly awesome when it's in an Irish accent?

[songsfortheotherkind]

{4 expansive, beautiful, images}

Perhaps it's time to call everyone home...
Thanks, Songsfortheotherkind, I needed that. I really needed that.

Dennis

You are very welcome. We're getting our new house together here and all the Pub Clubbers are permanently invited. :) Rambling and abundant organic gardens, workshop (including metal and wood working tools and full electronics/programming studio with 3D printers), art studio, sleeping tipis, outdoor solar heated showers and baths, swimming hole in the creek, writer's retreat spaces and forest huts on acres; local amenities include every form of physical and alternative healing/medicine imaginable, every form of yoga, dance and creative adventure, artisan markets, wholefoods and organic supermarkets, local organic growers market, every form of culture and counter culture bar white supremists, neo nazis and the like.

It's pretty good, I'm realising. :)

[songsfortheotherkind]

It's a combination of a warning and non-interference kind of thing. You've been informed. The end. Now you can never say that you did not know. :)

I have no idea what this post is in reference to- could you clarify? I have this thing where I can come up with at least 5000 options for any given thing so I need communication to be clear. :P

[songsfortheotherkind]

I should not be entertained by this. I should not be entertained by this. I should not be entertained by this.

Just in case this wasn't clear before, I love you for this. :D

[Cerridwen]

Perhaps it's time to call everyone home...

*looks over at Cerridwen* I especially think you'd love it here. I would love to beam you all over here! Utterly altruistic reasons, of course. *innocent expression*

Those pictures look like heaven. *sighs* I would absolutely adore it there. Our foothills and mountains are usually so dry and brown. I guess they match all of the smog in the sky as well... :( We've planted a nice little forest in our backyard and I love listening to the birds too, but ours aren't quite so exotic. :p

[songsfortheotherkind]

http://www.textnovel.com/cover_images/7456/Prince_Nuada_again_by_LeafOfSteel.jpg

I hated Hellboy 2 for a very, very simple reason. The wrong species won.

When Nuada appeared on the screen I began to cry. The reason is very simple- my beloved Otherkind partner is a gender neutral version of this Being and has been ghosting beside me for much of my adult life. I miss zhur indescribably. Nuada has a form that many, many Otherkind are familiar with.

His story was also familiar. I was fascinated by how close they skirted to the history that I was born with and the way Nuada was expressing his reality and experience. He wasn't interested in the throne- he was interested in protecting his home from a species that he could see was incapable of anything but destruction.

I saw this film with my older Otherkind children and we knew before the ending that it wasn't going to go well for the Otherkind in the film. My eldest son was infuriated with the Hellboy character, how stupid he was to think that in helping the humans they were going to appreciate the significance. We knew Hellboy was fighting for the wrong crew. We also knew that a virus fueled film would never have anything the other way. We knew regardless of his nobility and purpose, Nuada was doomed.

We also knew that this was precisely the point, the bespelling message. That's always the point- the constant directive that no matter what, the Otherkind will fail, are doomed, have no place on this planet any more, have become the bad guys and demons; we are the native population being starved, poisoned, legislated out of existence, assimilated. That's the message, anyway, and for young Otherkind it is a suffocating coating that one fights with just to survive. Many Otherkind don't survive.

The planet is rife with it now. It's clear that sometime soon there will be a mass uproar about non-human life in some form or another, because the forces of control are increasingly aware that the Beings they are recorded as fearing are coming home to sort things out once and for all. It fascinates me to watch the manipulations on the forum regarding this topic- the 'F*uck off, ETs' threads that warble on with the *almost* story, this constant black ops regarding the starkinds (the irony being that in other threads there are those graciously assigning the 'correct' planet and species to any who ask)- the subtle heteronomy snares tightening around the necks of everyone who allows it.

This is part of what is happening now: the heteronomy is gripping on as tightly as it can, because that's what it's got.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwhI7qdrsaA

Humans always think these dialogues are about *them* and 'aliens'- but they're not. What humans don't get is that the Anunnaki have never, ever considered homo sapiens as a species, they are THINGS. Ever seen the movie A.I.? I, Robot? The films that explore the relationship between humans and their creations? "Man was made in the image of his maker": look at who the Anunnaki are for the answer to how the Anunnaki see homo sapiens- look at how *homo sapiens* see anything other than themselves and what they do with that. Look at the laws that are in place- if you dig below the surface of the laws that govern the planet you will discover that 'humans' are classified as either animals or THINGS. They are *not* considered ensouled, autonomous Beings. And humans agreed to BEING classified as animals by embracing Darwinism! They gave their spirits away *willingly* because they didn't want the yoke of the blood gods- talk about babies with bathwater. The irony about that is that they gave away something that it took the efforts of countless Others to give them- it's all the story of Esau giving his birthright away for a bowl of lentils.

The Anunnaki completely destroyed the first two iterations of homo sapiens, with the exception of saving some of the genetic material. The first two iterations were like the creatures from 28 Days Later. You KNOW this- it's everywhere in the collective unconscious, the images of humans as cannibalistic and unsouled horrors. They were sterile, vicious creatures that were just as likely to kill each other as their makers. They couldn't be tortured into subjection, they were beyond it. Twice they had to be destroyed. Even the Matrix talks about 'entire batches lost' because of the flaws in the system: the flaws in the humans case were that the first two iterations were created using the DNA of various species found on Gaia and a large chunk of Anunnaki genetics.

It took a LOT of failures and horrors before the geneticists got the message that Anunnaki genes weren't actually that compatible with the physical reality here, so they started looking further afield. And this gets to the whole foundation of what's going on here in terms of the Anunnaki, the Anun, and Otherkind. What homo sapiens don't get is that they are nothing more then peripheral players and if it wasn't for the Anun and Otherkind interventions they wouldn't be here at all.

Ugh. There's so much to cover I'm going to be typing here all day- this is why I'd rather be making films about it. I've just woken up, I'm going to go make my Self a cup of tea and some food.

[Calz]

Ugh. There's so much to cover I'm going to be typing here all day - this is why I'd rather be making films about it. I've just woken up, I'm going to go make my Self a cup of tea and some food.



:pop2:

Cool ... just starting 2nd (of 3) consecutive 13 hour shifts with little to do (holiday weekend for usa).

http://www.animalimagery.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Funny-Bored-Monkey-448x336.jpg

[Alekahn]

16572

16576

16579

From heteronomy to autonomy we are all moving...
native indigenous, Other kind, and homo sapiens.
Perhaps from another perspective, we all
are 'peripheral players' here on Gaia...co-creators all.
The battle rages on.

Music for Calz (and all Other kind).

hm9Gd0k7aqE

aJ1OXMph7Hc

[Calz]

Music for Calz (and all Other kind).



Thanks so much for the thought, tunes and images Alekahn. :music:

As someone who spends a *lot* of time searching for interesting images ... I have to take my hat off to you and Songsie :yo:

No idea how you two keep coming up with some of the amazing things you do. :nod:


http://media.onsugar.com/files/2011/02/07/2/1412/14120278/6f/tattoo-body-art-designs.jpg

http://www.boingboing.net/assets_mt/2009/12/18/BlackTattooArt_dotwork.jpg

http://www.photofunblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Dangerous-Wolf-Tattoo-Art-for-Teenage-Boys-2011.jpg

http://www.eviltattoo.com/images/japanese0124.jpg

[Borden]

Morning all.

Hang in there, Calz.

ixLm9eSYldE

[Debra]

I presume that Calz A is half way through his shift at the moment.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/306211_422866891066772_1000414976_n.jpg

This one is for you Calzy -- to help lighten the load :popcorn:

f7Z5k1_LgkE

Dennis Leahy, your video of the angry guitar man. Oh my, I am still changing my underwear. That is the find of the month. ;)

http://mycolormusic.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Far-Side-cartoon-of-monotone-caveman-orchestra.png

http://hurricanevanessa.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/tumblr_m42o4xEdxt1qiavcao1_500.gif

[Calz]

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/lolcats-funny-pictures-angermanagement.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4YLOUWZFzM4/TxW07UCh6BI/AAAAAAAAHlc/LIWB9BzJdnQ/s1600/319169_114265612016936_100152733428224_96203_937671659_n.jpg

http://streamclan123.webs.com/lol-cats1-lrg.png

http://www.lolpix.com/_pics/Funny_Pictures_1006/Funny_Pictures_100612.jpg

http://lolpie.com/images/archive/content/1/1/i-has-a-force-field-Qnbbc.jpg

http://qcart.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/pokemans.jpg

[Debra]

http://www.forkparty.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/working-animals-12.png

What´s that Cat? Calz is breaking up .. copy that ..

http://www.forkparty.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/working-animals-1.png

Got that, Beaver .. looks to me we better call home

http://www.forkparty.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/working-animals-8.png

Oh dear, thank you for telling me ..

http://android.appstorm.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/I-Want-to-Go-Home.jpg

You just rest that head ..

[Calz]

http://www.forkparty.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/working-animals-12.png

What´s that Cat? Calz is breaking up .. copy that ..

http://www.forkparty.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/working-animals-1.png

Got that, Beaver .. looks to me we better call home

http://www.forkparty.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/working-animals-8.png

Oh dear, thank you for telling me ..

http://android.appstorm.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/I-Want-to-Go-Home.jpg

You just rest that head ..


http://images.fungopher.com/o/o/Y/ooYIrUNRb/Funny-Animals-Yes-hold-your-head-up-like-this-Instant-facelift.jpg

[Debra]

http://images.fungopher.com/o/o/Y/ooYIrUNRb/Funny-Animals-Yes-hold-your-head-up-like-this-Instant-facelift.jpg

http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2012/04/24/Interactivity/Images/Beautiful_Bulldog_013ef-14757.jpg

I is doing the best I can ..

[Calz]

I is doing the best I can ..

http://images.dailydawdle.com/why-did-you-wake-me.jpg

http://www.nickmom.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/school-picture-day.jpg

http://funny-kittens.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/11.jpg

http://chzhistoriclols.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/funny-pictures-history-the-best-part-of-waking-up-is-vodka-in-your-coffee-cup.jpg

[Debra]

http://funny-kittens.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/11.jpg


3 seconds eh?

ok
http://images.paraorkut.com/img/funnypics/images/m/motivational_boobs-13323.jpg

[Calz]

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/funny-pictures-cat-sits-on-your-coffee.jpg

[eaglespirit]

YOU can change everything to the Highest Order of Unconditional Love in ALL YOU Think and Say and Do...now more than ever!!!

Each One of Us... IS and ARE the Transition and Transmutation and Transcendence of the Mother Earth of the the most Beautiful Collective Dream!

BE the Most : )

[Alekahn]

16593

Calz, it is quite the contrary...I don't know how you do it.
Having 'grown up' with photography from childhood, a manual SLR in my
hands from the age of 11...I am to this day smitten with this dynamic medium.

If you are not already aware of this, check out www.deviantart.com
I know a few of the photographers who contribute to this site and it is a labyrinth of
stunning visual creativity.

Edit: The url above will become occult in 24 hrs. so as to protect this gem for devoted pic ninjas and pub patrons...
wait, isn't that yet another subtle manifestation of the esoteric agenda surrounding us? ;)
(Des possibilites existent certainment pour ce faire).



16594

QcmsoYLjVXk

[songsfortheotherkind]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYnpeY6MDi0

Alekhan, your Phillip Glass post reminded me about the exquisite videos of Sil and I went looking. Thank you for the reminder. :)

[songsfortheotherkind]

If you are not already aware of this, check out www.deviantart.com
I know a few of the photographers who contribute to this site.

shhhhhhhh, you weren't supposed to tell him about our secret sites! now he's going to be spending hours trawling and making things that much harder.

:P

[Borden]

I wonder why it's slow in here lately. Is it just because of the holiday weekend in America? Or is there a stiltedness brought about by the realization that not everyone who looks at this thread looks upon it kindly?

You may even very occasionally come across the odd comment in other threads that slyly disparage this one. Don't be perturbed. You're not likely to see much open, outright disapproval. Rather, the chortling up the sleeve of limp cowards, that's all. Perhaps you look more than I do. I don't have much stomach for it. We don't talk in any smug code here, so I may miss quite a lot. Oh, what the hell ... I'll dip my toe in the water.

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu233/Legolas_Fanatic/This%20Is%20Not%20Home/Character%20Advertisements/GrimaWormtongue.jpg

Nah ... didn't like it. It's beneath me.

The people who post here often do so rather courageously. It takes a lot to open up about experiences and theories that defy consensus even among 'alternative' people. Many of those so-called 'alternative' people are simply indoctrinated in a different way. Songsy, to name but one of us here, doesn't take who she is from a book or have a little club of 'yes' people. She's an original, and to many of the impotent indoctrinated, who have simply found a small enough demographic where even they can imagine themselves king or queen of an imagined little castle ... she is rather threatening, I imagine. That makes me smile broadly.

If you are an original ... if you are one of the rare 'alternatives' who is not an acolyte, then you're in good company here. You don't have to be brave ... there are people here who seldom or never post, but who understand what's slowly taking shape here, and who resonate with it. Not everyone has to put their head above the parapet, and you should know that your presence is still felt. That's an ability I have, which I won't bleat on about importantly. Others who frequent this thread have it too. As for Songsy? Heh heh ... you don't know the half of it. There's a lot more going on here than the frequent silliness and chucking about of pretty pictures may suggest. Not that I disapprove of or am belittling those things ... far from it! I'm as guilty as anyone, I'm just not as good with the pretty pictures.

Being an original does not mean you know it all. We don't know it all. I laugh at people who think they do. It's very funny how people who think they know it all so very often seem to have chosen or concocted a very bleak and ugly little universe in which to be omniscient. We're just not like that here. We can still evolve. And we will. We are. Paper tigers can too. I never really give up on anyone. I don't hold grudges for long. I respond to what comes my way in the moment. There's a profound difference between hot anger and cold hell.

Blessings upon all of us who are genuine when we imbibe at the pub at the end of the universe.

[Borden]

Hello, 53 invisible people. You're all very welcome. Tell us something amazing! Or wait. Or don't. Or don't wait. What adventure are you on? You'll tell us when you want to, I know.

Meanwhile ... it's preposterously hot where I am even though it's dark (England) ... there are zombies roaming the streets, cats and dogs living together ... and while the end of days is kicking off I am going to eat peanuts and play the very risky game of chucking my activated lightsabre up in the air in a pirhouette and catching it by the hilt. If you don't see me post again you'll know I didn't break my record of three thousand.

[Borden]

Okay, so while I'm blithering and no-one else is ... I just want to tell Alekahn that when he posts with pictures it always looks like a work of art. I mean the sum of the post, not just the individual pictures. I've only just noticed that I always notice that.

[Cerridwen]

Sorry Borden, I really don't have anything interesting going on to entertain the masses with. Right now, life is kinda boring and I'm ok with that. I'm not the type of girl who needs constant drama going on anyway.

This made me laugh when I saw it earlier, maybe someone else will get a kick out of it too.

http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy227/CerridwenSoap/pun.png

[Calz]

Hello, 53 invisible people.



http://www.instructables.com/files/deriv/FHZ/ND3V/F5GE25FV/FHZND3VF5GE25FV.MEDIUM.gif


Really?

Wow ... you must have scared em all off Borden ... hard to imagine with that striped baby boy look you have going on but you cannot argue with results.

I only "see" a few.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_vD6NR8A3eEA/TI8MyNY2zfI/AAAAAAAABNg/asOySaZtmuU/s1600/INVISIBLE+WOMAN.jpg

http://people.ee.duke.edu/~drsmith/cloaking/invisible_man.jpg

http://koikoikoi.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/holiday-on-ice-sito-610x727.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_4m62iwPmxiU/SNE0z2iG5mI/AAAAAAAAAE8/gVqApG105qk/s320/invisible+people_462d0685c721c.jpg

http://www.lizzyshawpr.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/invisible_man1.jpg

http://www.funnycommercialsworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/mitsubishi-outlander-commercial-invisible-people.JPG

[Calz]

I only "see" a few.




... and yet ...

with invisible people ... perhaps a little isolated one-on-one quality time could be interesting???


http://shadowness.com/file/item3/67173/image_t6.jpg



I think that ... ahem ... perhaps we should revisit the female Marvel heroine characters ...


http://www.bamkapow.com/bk_images/2009/05/28/InvisibleWoman05.jpg

http://youbentmywookie.com/wookie/gallery/0609-marvel-vs-rockin-jelly-bean-vol1-invisible-woman/1jeely-invisible-woman3.jpg

http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/414852scoopKalel06.jpg

[Cerridwen]

Calz, I thought of you earlier today. I was using some blue coloring for a project I was making and accidentally spilled a huge glob all over my hand and up my arm. Luckily, it all washed off, because I don't look as nice as you do covered in blue. :)

http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy227/CerridwenSoap/Pics/Unknown-4.jpg

Here's my new superhero costume...

http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy227/CerridwenSoap/Pics/images-27.jpg

[Calz]

http://www.topdesignmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/6110.jpg

http://www.kihlstudios.com/photography/scenic/images/gothic_tree_03.jpg

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs44/f/2009/087/b/d/hopeless_tree_2_by_marcopolo17.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HPGy_aYQ2BU/Tk1Al5vnzII/AAAAAAAADRs/ZRwYvTA-Zlk/s640/1681554_f520.jpg

[modwiz]

I wonder why it's slow in here lately. Is it just because of the holiday weekend in America? Or is there a stiltedness brought about by the realization that not everyone who looks at this thread looks upon it kindly?

You may even very occasionally come across the odd comment in other threads that slyly disparage this one. Don't be perturbed. You're not likely to see much open, outright disapproval. Rather, the chortling up the sleeve of limp cowards, that's all. Perhaps you look more than I do. I don't have much stomach for it. We don't talk in any smug code here, so I may miss quite a lot. Oh, what the hell ... I'll dip my toe in the water.

Nah ... didn't like it. It's beneath me.

The people who post here often do so rather courageously. It takes a lot to open up about experiences and theories that defy consensus even among 'alternative' people. Many of those so-called 'alternative' people are simply indoctrinated in a different way. Songsy, to name but one of us here, doesn't take who she is from a book or have a little club of 'yes' people. She's an original, and to many of the impotent indoctrinated, who have simply found a small enough demographic where even they can imagine themselves king or queen of an imagined little castle ... she is rather threatening, I imagine. That makes me smile broadly.

If you are an original ... if you are one of the rare 'alternatives' who is not an acolyte, then you're in good company here. You don't have to be brave ... there are people here who seldom or never post, but who understand what's slowly taking shape here, and who resonate with it. Not everyone has to put their head above the parapet, and you should know that your presence is still felt. That's an ability I have, which I won't bleat on about importantly. Others who frequent this thread have it too. As for Songsy? Heh heh ... you don't know the half of it. There's a lot more going on here than the frequent silliness and chucking about of pretty pictures may suggest. Not that I disapprove of or am belittling those things ... far from it! I'm as guilty as anyone, I'm just not as good with the pretty pictures.

Being an original does not mean you know it all. We don't know it all. I laugh at people who think they do. It's very funny how people who think they know it all so very often seem to have chosen or concocted a very bleak and ugly little universe in which to be omniscient. We're just not like that here. We can still evolve. And we will. We are. Paper tigers can too. I never really give up on anyone. I don't hold grudges for long. I respond to what comes my way in the moment. There's a profound difference between hot anger and cold hell.

Blessings upon all of us who are genuine when we imbibe at the pub at the end of the universe.

If someone takes it upon themselves to chew a persons' ass out, is that a sign of the ass being irresistible? :p

Need a breath mint?:rolleyes:

[Calz]

I wonder why it's slow in here lately. Is it just because of the holiday weekend in America? Or is there a stiltedness brought about by the realization that not everyone who looks at this thread looks upon it kindly?

You may even very occasionally come across the odd comment in other threads that slyly disparage this one. Don't be perturbed. You're not likely to see much open, outright disapproval. Rather, the chortling up the sleeve of limp cowards, that's all. Perhaps you look more than I do. I don't have much stomach for it. We don't talk in any smug code here, so I may miss quite a lot. Oh, what the hell ... I'll dip my toe in the water.



If someone takes it upon themselves to chew a persons' ass out, is that a sign of the ass being irresistible? :p


http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/funny-pictures-cat-moons-neighbors.jpg


Songsie (as well as others) are good examples of what David Icke has illustrated so wonderfully in that once you overcome the fear of what "others" may think ... it is a very liberating and powerful experience.

May she (and others) stay true to themselves. :thumb:

[Dennis Leahy]

I wonder why it's slow in here lately. Is it just because of the holiday weekend in America? Or is there a stiltedness brought about by the realization that not everyone who looks at this thread looks upon it kindly?

You may even very occasionally come across the odd comment in other threads that slyly disparage this one. Don't be perturbed. You're not likely to see much open, outright disapproval. Rather, the chortling up the sleeve of limp cowards, that's all. Perhaps you look more than I do. I don't have much stomach for it. We don't talk in any smug code here, so I may miss quite a lot. Oh, what the hell ... I'll dip my toe in the water.



Nah ... didn't like it. It's beneath me.

The people who post here often do so rather courageously. It takes a lot to open up about experiences and theories that defy consensus even among 'alternative' people. Many of those so-called 'alternative' people are simply indoctrinated in a different way. Songsy, to name but one of us here, doesn't take who she is from a book or have a little club of 'yes' people. She's an original, and to many of the impotent indoctrinated, who have simply found a small enough demographic where even they can imagine themselves king or queen of an imagined little castle ... she is rather threatening, I imagine. That makes me smile broadly.

...I always thought that places like airports and grocery stores were good for observing human behavior. I haven't been to an airport since they decided to grab or irradiate my testicles, but grocery stores are still interesting places to be an interactive observer of a good cross section of (my local cohort of) humanity - and no one seems interested in my testicles. I find the same to be true with online forums and that NSA intelligence-gathering nest I have come to call FarceBook.

The band Yes (not my favorite lyricists, but we can't choose memory triggers), had a song lyric with one interesting line, back when we (self-proclaimed) "different folk" were cloistering and rejecting the outsiders to the 'free-love', pot-smoking, mind-expanding, peaceniks we felt we were (or at least, I thought I was.) The Yes line was, "Don't surround yourself with yourself."

So, as pleasant as it is to get 'hangtime' with people that are less programmed, less caught by mind virus, more creative, better communicators, more in-depth, more genuine, unique, and authentic - and more funner - I feel like I sometimes need to remind myself to interact with beings that fall outside my comfort zone. Sometimes I'm pleasantly surprised, and the person is more interesting that I had guessed. Sometimes they are not. Sometimes they hit hot buttons, and it is a chance to investigate why the issues trigger a strong response in me. Sometimes it's a splash of cold water reminder about how ridiculously different we all are, or how predictably someone plays their programmed/recorded script.

BTW, Borden, I'm not suggesting that what I'm saying is a novel notion to you. Most of life is mundane, and we all get massive doses of surrounding ourselves with folks different than ourselves. Your comment simply triggered the thoughts I'm scribbling with my keyboard.

Yes, Songs is an original, and has drawn out or made a safe place to go ahead and be unique.

I haven't read or experienced every post in this thread (but hope to when I have more time.) There are times I have read what someone has written, and I feel inadequate to reply at the same level. I feel like a kid with a toy xylophone who just stumbled into a gathering of accomplished jazz musicians. So, if you're ever wonder why I get quiet, it could be that my xylophone isn't tuned-up.

Dennis

[Debra]

There are times I have read what someone has written, and I feel inadequate to reply at the same level. I feel like a kid with a toy xylophone who just stumbled into a gathering of accomplished jazz musicians. So, if you're ever wonder why I get quiet, it could be that my xylophone isn't tuned-up.

Dennis

Dennis, it amazes you feel this way because from my humble perspective you are sooooo accomplished already. I follow your work ''out there'' in the badlands of the forum. I use the word bad to denote the tough, debate centric stomping grounds of the forum - and see a very fair playing human being who is passionate about truth and getting this world to a better place to live in. I see Dennis Leahy as an intrepid activist and investigator.

http://mauiwowi.com/sites/default/files/superhero_HAWAIIAN.jpg

Put that in your shirt and smoke it ;)


Sometimes it's a splash of cold water reminder about how ridiculously different we all are

This line here, stood out for me (as well as the context that you described). Point is, we are all unique, and that is the joy of it as well, I think.

http://twistedsifter.sifter.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/old-woman-smoking-sandy-powers.jpg

Just hold each being up to the light to see a trace of their life journey ..

http://www.danoah.com/wp-content/uploads/cute-baby-picture-boxer-sad-pout-pouting.jpg

If you look into the eyes perhaps you can see glints, even from previous lives .. what you bring alone is so valuable, so grand beyond measure. Really, when you feel into it, every being is a work of art, a creation with a purposeful role to experience and to touch other lives - and often for reasons that are beyond immediate consciousness.

http://www.danoah.com/wp-content/uploads/cute-baby-picture-outside-nekkid.jpg

The infant in all of us I think knows this power, doesn´t even have to think about. Just jumps in and does it. I think we have just got to remember that it is still a part of us. The deepest knowledge is already there.